The Comfort Trap: Why You Have To Break Free

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What happens when we get too comfortable in our careers? In this thought-provoking conversation, we explore the invisible barriers that keep us from reaching our full potential.

When visiting his former workplace after ten years, one host was shocked to discover former colleagues doing exactly the same jobs they had been doing a decade earlier. This sparked a deeper discussion about how easily we can become trapped in comfort zones without realizing it's happening.

The conversation delves into the stark differences between employee and employer mindsets. As employees, we often count sick days, plan vacations far in advance, and watch the clock. As employers, priorities shift dramatically toward maximizing productivity and seizing growth opportunities. This mental transition reveals fascinating insights about how our relationship with work evolves as our responsibilities increase.

We tackle the challenging balance between risk and reward in business growth. Is avoiding the next level based on legitimate risk assessment or simply fear of discomfort? What separates those who remain in the same position for decades from those who continually advance? The answers might surprise you.

Perhaps most valuable is our examination of self-deception—how we convince ourselves we're content in situations that no longer serve our growth because the thought of change feels too intimidating. Breaking free from this comfort trap requires honest self-assessment about what's truly holding you back.

Whether you're an employee looking to advance, an entrepreneur considering your next move, or someone feeling stuck in your current situation, this episode offers practical insights to help you recognize comfort traps and create momentum toward meaningful growth.

Episode Transcript

Robby (00:00):
You know, um, I went to the pharmacy this morning cause
I am crook.
Why'd you come to work?
I thought about calling in sick.
You should have called in.
Who would you call?
Huh, call someone.
Just leave myself alone.
Just leave yourself alone.
Yeah, exactly, text myself.
Um, I was coughing bad in theshower this morning and I was

(00:20):
like dude, if I was an employeenow, I would probably call in
sick.

George (00:27):
It's funny you mentioned that.
I said that to someone todaywhen I had my hernia operation.
I had the operation on Friday,and on Monday morning at 7am I
was in the office.
In the office I was limping andI thought to myself, had I been
an employee, I would have takenthat week off and probably
would have trickled into thenext one after that too.
I'm going to take the week offjust from hearing the story.
So it's um, it's funny how yourpriorities change, yeah.

Robby (00:51):
I've dude.
I was like I was.
I felt so shit that I was likeI was coughing in the shower and
I'm like man, I really don'tfeel great.
I was like I'm going to go andI'll reschedule my whole
afternoon and I'm just going togo do it.
That's what I messaged you.
Hey, how early can you do thepodcast?
Cause I was like I'll just Ineed to knock it out of the way.
And then I'm just going to goand just rest Feeling better now

(01:15):
, though, oh shit.
So I go to the other day.
I've got some Colton Flutablets.
They're not working.
I want the over-the-counterones.
I've heard this story aboutthese over-the-counter.
Yeah, the ones they keep behindthe shelf, you know, the ones
they ask you for your licensefor.
No, never heard this story.
You never heard this.
Okay, so I've heard it from afew people.

(01:38):
And then someone told me theother day got them fucking gold
feeling a million bucks I feeland I can breathe there you go
feeling a million.
I might live on these how good'sthat yeah, I could go for a run
I'm not going to, but I wasgonna.
Yeah, I was gonna, I'll talkabout it.
But, um, yeah, very surprisedat how much they brought me back

(02:00):
to life.
Yeah, right, yeah, I was notwell like I was like it funny.

George (02:04):
My missus is the type that she'll just slog it out.
She doesn't want to takeanything.

Robby (02:08):
I'm like why these are just symptom relieving.
They don't actually kill you.
Yeah, they just give you whatyou need to go through it and
they're not like antibiotics,they're just.
It's just like what do you mean?
The race is anyway.
Yeah, he's like what do youmean?
I was like what do you mean?
He's like like it mightincrease, you might feel like
cause it can increase your bloodpressure.
I said, is it like having toomany coffees?

(02:28):
Yeah, and I said I'm going tohave the same coffee.
I'm going to take it with acoffee.

George (02:39):
Um, yeah, and now you told me you didn't know.

Robby (02:42):
When you walked past, and I had the Vicks thing hanging
out of my nose, I didn't evennotice.

George (02:45):
Just another day in the office.
Yeah, I don't think it's notmuch that surprises me about you
these days.
You were surprised before.
I was surprised that you weresick when you didn't look it.

Robby (02:55):
Yeah, so here I am, here you are Feeling dandy.

George (03:06):
When you were were you know, when I was an employee, I
didn't take sick days.
I know you said back in the daywhen you first started you were
like was an apprentice.

Robby (03:10):
Yeah, you were like someone out of sick days yeah,
that's right.

George (03:13):
You're just like how many have I got?
Cool?

Robby (03:14):
I got 10 to use for the great cool 10, yeah, plus my
four weeks annual leave.
So I do that.

George (03:20):
You're adding up, calculating everything in your
head head.
Yeah, I never did.
I never did.
There was always a type ofperson, of employee that would
work, came in, did my thing,worked hard, wore it almost like
a badge of honor.
Do you know what I mean?
I don't take days off, I'mfucking going to keep working,
working hard.
But you see, I feel that thathas put me in a really good

(03:41):
position in my professionalcareer as well.
Why?
Because I always got promotedbefore others.
I always got the best jobs.
I always got to work with thebest teams because people wanted
me on their team.
So when I was working for othercompanies, the senior people
within the organization wouldwant me to work for them.
We want George on our team.
We want George to do work onthis project with us because I

(04:03):
was a performer, I didn't takedays off and I was reliable, and
then I carried that on reallyinto every organization that I
went to, and then there's alevel of that here too.
I mean, it's your own business,so it's a fair bit different in
that regard.

Robby (04:17):
It's very different.

George (04:18):
Yeah, the buck stops with you.
Yeah, but I look for that sparkin my employees as well.
Is that unfair?
No, yeah.
I just Is it unfair.

Robby (04:34):
Like for me to have that expectation because what Well,
looking for a spark and havingan expectation of chalk and
cheese?

George (04:39):
Yeah, true, but I am, I'm hope, like I want it to.
I want to see it there.
Do you know what I mean?
I true, but I want to see itthere.
Do you know what I mean?
I see it sometimes, but I justwant to see that person.
That's like you got it.
You got it.
You get it.
You understand the game.

Robby (04:55):
Yeah, I also think there is an element of if they
understood it well enough They'dbe out on their own.
They'd be out on their own.

George (05:02):
Most people would, but there are a lot of people who
have that about them and areprobably not going to ever be
really good at running abusiness, but they would be an
amazing number one or number twoat another organization.
How do you find those people?
I don't know, I don't know.
It's very hard, I think.
I think it's rare to have them,but yeah, I do think it's

(05:23):
difficult to have them.
But yeah, I do think it'sdifficult, and I mean that's not
to say I don't have them in myteam now.
I see the sparks, but I alsosee the level.
You know, just the I don't knowwhat the word is.
It's not lazy, but I'm going tosay, yeah, commitment, maybe
there's times where thecommitment isn't there, but then

(05:43):
there's other times, you know.
Then there's other times whenit is.

Robby (05:48):
Is that because it isn't, or it's not at the level you
want it to be?

George (05:56):
Probably not.

Robby (05:56):
Yeah, that's right.
It's not a I am or I'm not.
It's like a how committed areyou?
Yeah, Do you know what I mean?
It's not yeah.

George (06:04):
The other day, one of my employees particularly has been
working really hard for likegood three months, good three
months, and we're talking.
I said, oi, just side note.
I said I really appreciateeverything you've done over the
last three months.
You know you've worked reallyhard and the fact that we're at
these positions in these jobs isvastly because of the effort
that you've put in so well done.

(06:24):
And you know me saying that tohim meant so much, like I could
see how much that meant to him,for me to say that to him and to
acknowledge how hard he hadbeen working, because he has.
And that's the spark, that's theshit I'm talking about.
Like they're the things that Ican go cool, I can rely on this
guy when things are tough.
I know I can call you, I knowyou'll be there, I know you will
do this.
When I look to employ peoplewithin the organization, it's

(06:52):
very hard to find that spark atthe start.
You know what I mean.
I think you've got to gothrough the process to see how
good they are.
I think for me it's a qualitythat I want to really focus and
hone in on.

Robby (07:08):
You just reminded me of something, Something that took
me back yesterday, but took meback years.
I went and I had a meeting withmy old boss yesterday to
potentially do some work withMercedes-Benz, Yep Okay.
So I went and sat down with him.
I went to a new dealership thatI hadn't been to Mercedes-Benz

(07:31):
Brighton and I was there andhe's like come, I'll show you
around.
Did they not have one there?
They did, but they've moved.

George (07:38):
They've moved to Brighton.

Robby (07:40):
They've actually moved out of Brighton.
Funnily enough, it's now inMoorabbin.
Yeah, right, but it'sMercedes-Benz Brighton.
But yeah, it was a newdealership, new wish.
And he's like come, I'll showyou around.
Man, this is really different.
And he shows me around and hetook me to the workshop.
And, dude, I ran into threepeople I used to work with.
Yeah, wow.

(08:05):
Yeah, are doing the exact samething they were doing when I was
there.
Exactly the same thing, likenothing's changed.
Same live in the same life.
How many years I left Mercedesfirst time?

George (08:17):
I got off the tools in 2014.
Yeah, so nearly 10 years.
Over 10 years.
Oh, over 10 years.
Sorry, but yeah.
Then you said you went back.

Robby (08:23):
These are guys who, like one of the guys I saw there, I
took out my first engine withhim.
Yeah, I mean he.
He had been doing it for like15 years.
When I started and I went sawhim yesterday he was doing the
exact same thing.
Dude man blink, blink, dude,it's gone I was like I I was

(08:43):
almost flabbergasted, likecouldn't believe.
I was like you guys are stilldoing this.
Huh, still got your toolboxLike wow, like, okay, and
they're like, we watch yourvideos.
But yeah, like that.
Employees, that's a commitment,though, as well.

George (09:01):
You want those people in your business?
Yeah, absolutely, you do 100%.
Yeah, and they're all decenttechnicians yeah, that's not to
say they're not good at whatthey're doing.
It's not to say they're sleepingand they've just been there for
10 years Like they've got theirjob, because they're confident
at what they do, yeah, but it'salso comfort, oh huge.

(09:26):
And that's probably what creepsin, I think, with people,
especially when you've beensomewhere for a while, the
comfort aspect.
So say, for example, start time7.30, quarter to 8.
I'm a bit late today, quarterto 9.
You know what I mean.
Say 8 o'clock, but how come itdoesn't go the other way, how
come it's like, oh fuck, I'mgoing to get 7 am.

Robby (09:45):
And avoid all the traffic .
It's the friction aspect, so iftraffic bothers you enough, it
will go the other way, yeah,it's.
When it doesn't, then it's likewell, the extra sleep, the
sleep, the extra sleep is good.

George (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, let's see, I'm going to do this first.
Oh, I'm going to go here first,so how?

Robby (10:03):
do you handle that?

George (10:14):
Yeah, I think it has to work from the top down.
There has to be a level ofexpectation and leadership.

Robby (10:17):
There would be a few days where I would walk in and
you're not here.

George (10:19):
Man.
I'm here most days about 10 to6, between 5.45 and 6.30.
I'm in the office most of thetime, but I also live very close
, so it's not as difficult forme to do that, and my body clock
just wakes up at 5.
So I'll get up, I'll get readyand chill out at home a bit and

(10:41):
then either drive or walk to theoffice.
Let's be serious, I drive, Idon't walk Every day Pretty much
.
You live like two blocks away.
I've got a car.
I've got to use it.

Robby (10:52):
Someone's got to put K's on, got to rock up the K's, the
fuel will go stale yeah.
So yeah well as you know, doyou need to come in earlier, me
myself.
Is that the thing, not comingin early enough?

George (11:10):
Not disciplined enough.
Yeah, the thing for me and asyou know, I've been so busy the
last six months I don't feelthat I've been stepped into my
CEO role as much as I should,and I feel that the CEO role
does entail me being moreconnected with everyone within
the organization.
So that's definitely somethingI'm putting a core focus on for
the remainder of the year anyway.
So in a couple of weeks timewe're going to do a team meeting

(11:32):
and I coach I was saying thisto someone the other day, I
don't think it was you but Icoach and mentor builders and
other trade professionals onwhat to do and how to run a
business and how to be great andall that sort of stuff what to
do and how to run a business andhow to be great and all that
sort of stuff.
So I think it's silly that Idon't do that with my own team.
I think there's a lot that Ican teach them and help them and
guide them and give them thetools and resources and then

(11:52):
watch them flourish or not.
And then again, I've got myanswer as far as who I want to
be with us in the team, or who'sdriven to go in a certain
direction, or who wants to bethe nine-to-five person, because
, as you said, nine-to-fivethere's nothing wrong with them.
It's not saying that they'renot good performers, it's just
well they're capped.
Don't come to me asking for$150,000 because you're not that

(12:14):
person.
You're the person that's goingto work nine-to-five.
Do your job, do your hours, doit well, go home so you get that
life balance, as most peoplecall it, which, again, is fine.
But I kind of don't feel like Ilike that.
Maybe that's because that's notwhat I'm personally like.
There could be an element ofthat.

(12:35):
But yeah, I just get pumpedwhen I see people putting in
effort For them, not for me Ican't give a fuck.
I'll work hard, I'm still goingto get the result.
But I just feel when people gothat little bit extra, they go
above and beyond.
It's helping them more thanit's helping anyone else and I
think people fail to see that Ifyou're an employee and you want

(12:59):
to do better, man, just work,just do those little 1% things.
It will make the world ofdifference the world of
difference when you work thatlittle bit harder than everyone
else.

Robby (13:08):
What do you do now that you didn't do, even though
you're saying like, yes, I usedto do all these things, blah,
blah, blah.
What do you do now?
Because there's got to bethings that you notice now.
I know for myself there is 100%.
There's things that I noticenow where I'm have, I probably
wouldn't have noticed that as anemployee.

George (13:27):
Can you give me an example?

Robby (13:30):
Like leaving on right on time.

George (13:35):
That I notice it for my employees.

Robby (13:37):
Yeah or no, no, something that you, no, no.
So my question was what do youdo now that you don't that you
wouldn't have noticed that youdid as an employee?
Like in the sense, of, what doyou do now that you're like, you
know, I didn't notice that Ididn't do this as an employee.
That's good that you would liketo see your employees do.
Yeah, okay you know like for me,if you clock off let's just say

(14:02):
you finish at five o'clockWe've got a clocking system.
If you log out at 5 o'clock,that tells me you weren't doing
anything at 4.55.
That's how I think now.
Now when I was an employee, I'dclock off at 5 o'clock.
I'd also not be doing anythingat 4.55.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, or like little things.
Like you notice, I used to getinto holiday mode.

(14:24):
Like you get into holiday mode,all of a sudden, you're not as
productive as you were.
Uh, is there anything that youdo now that you're like okay,
when I was an employee, I wish Iknew this.
You know, like times don'tmatter as much to me now, like
I'm a little bit more flexiblethan what.
I'm very punctual, but I'm alittle bit more flexible than

(14:46):
what.
I'm very punctual, but I'm alittle bit more flexible with
them in the sense of the timeyou start and the time you
finish matter less.
It's more about what you do inthe, in the, in the moment.
Yeah, like there's no point instaying here till 8pm if you
hardly work from five to late.
You might as well just leave atfive and come in half an hour
early the next day and do thatstuff.
Things like that, things that Ididn't realize that I would have

(15:08):
did as an employee.
You know what I mean.
The calling in sick, the annualleave, like trying to book in
my annual leave super early,shows signs of like you don't
care, like you kind of checkedout, you're worried about your
holidays, which you've got everyright to be.
But as an employer, you look atthat differently.

(15:28):
Don't you start thinking, okay,cool like you're, you don't
care at all, like that's, yourfocus, is like this one thing
and that's fine.

George (15:37):
But as an employer, you, you do see, you do, yeah, you,
you have a different, you noticethat's what it is, you notice,
because they'll never have thatperspective, because they're
never well, they're not in thatposition to know and to see
those things.

Robby (15:48):
Oh, yeah, no, no, no, they would never know, but once
you become an employer, you knowyeah.
So it's like cool.
What are the things that I usedto do that I wish I knew?
Now and we've said this beforeI would be the grandest employee
in the world, Neil.

George (16:04):
Yeah, I say that too.
I say if I was to go for a job.

Robby (16:07):
Fuck dude.
I'm telling you, if I go to thejob interview now, I'll work a
month for free, and if you don'twant to hire me after that, I'm
guaranteed you're going to wantme after a month.
If you don't want me after that, it's fine, that's your choice.
Do for a month, and you'll wantme on your team.
Then I'll do it for free, yeah,and then I'm going to ask for
my salary.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, that's how confident I amthat if you saw what I could do

(16:29):
, you'd be like cool, we needthis guy.
Yeah, but I didn't have thatconfidence back then.

George (16:34):
Well, you didn't have the.
You back yourself now becauseyou've got the skill set to do
so.
Probably probably not as muchback then and also living week
to week.
Back then too, probably it's adifferent life.
Yeah, look, that's a goodquestion, but I'm finding it
hard to answer.
Why.
Because I don't feel that I dotoo much.

(16:56):
For example, I'm sure there werethings I'm just finding it
difficult to think about whatthey are Like.
When I was working at thiscompany, buildsep, that I used
to work for.
I always had this deepconnection with the company I
worked with, in the sense of Ifelt that I was really them like
.
I was part of the team.
You cut me.
I bleed, blue and white orwhatever the company colors were

(17:19):
when I was working at thatcompany, particularly because
they were very hands-ondirectors.
They were a small company,still turning over a decent
amount over 20 mil when I gotthere and I think they grew up
to about 50, but it was a veryhands-on, family-orientated
business.
So I got to work closely withthem and it was a smaller team.

(17:41):
They still had 10-odd peoplethere, whatever it was.
So I felt that everything I didreally mattered and I took it
personally and I wanted to dowell for them.
I was pumped when they got thewins on the board do you know
what I mean?
Because of something that I didand helped them contribute.
What was the?

Robby (18:00):
culture like.

George (18:02):
No, it was good, it was actually really good.
Oh, was it?
Yeah?
Yeah, it was a good culture.
No one bickered or anythinglike that.
It was a young team, relativelyyoung.
I was probably the.
I mean there was the twodirectors.
They would have been at thetime in their probably 40s, and
then myself I would have been inmy 30s, early 30s at the time

(18:23):
when I was there.
It was a while back then.
Yeah, it was over 10 years.
My back didn't hurt back then.
It felt so, no, it was ayoungish team, but anyway, yeah.
So I used to always take itpersonally.
I felt a deep care and prideworking at all the businesses.
Even when I was at Multiplex, Ifelt very much like that too.

(18:44):
I think Multiplex was a bitmore- Cutthroat.
Definitely.
Yeah, sink or swim scenario.
They would throw you in thedeep end and if you did well,
you'd stay, if you didn't,they'd be like cool, thanks for
your time, see you later.
There was a little bit more ofthat and it was a fair bit more
corporate.
Back then too, there was thecorporate aspect of it being

(19:05):
such a big company.
I'm struggling a little bit tothink what I would have done.
I mean, maybe there would be alittle bit more sense of
entitlement back then, as yousaid, with annual leave and
looking forward to the holidaysand all that sort of stuff.
Because as much as I may havefelt that it wasn't the reality,
I didn't necessarily get thebonus because of them making

(19:29):
millions of dollars that year.
Do you know what I mean?
But I do still believe that itwas a huge contributing factor
to me getting opportunities,even if it was just personal
growth, even if it just made mebetter by doing those difficult
things.
So yeah, I can't answer thequestion off the top of my head.

Robby (19:48):
What do you think you wouldn't be doing now that had
you not worked there or been theemployee you were Like what are
the skills you learned directlyfrom them that you still do
today?

George (19:59):
Okay From all the businesses.
Yeah, just from your career asan employee.
Okay, I think the fact that Istarted off working at Multiplex
was good for me because ittoughened me up, like I thought
I was pretty tough to begin with.
You know, 22-year-old goinginto a business, a construction
company, I thought I was goingto walk in there day one, tell

(20:20):
everyone how to build, like thisis I'm going to take over the
world, give me the projectmanager role day one.
And man, I walked in there andthey opened up the drawings.
I'm like what the fuck am Ilooking at?
I had no idea about anything.
I was bottom of the food chainbut what that did was because it
was a very much sink or swimscenario.
You were put in high pressuresituations from an early stage.

(20:40):
That it toughened me up andalso gave me just that
appreciation of what a hardday's work is Not physically
funny enough.
Because I'd done the hardphysical stuff and that's
probably where I had that falsesense of understanding of what
the role was going to be,because I worked as a laborer, I
was doing carpentry work on mydad's construction sites and all

(21:01):
that sort of stuff.
And then I went into thiscorporate scenario or an office
building a site, a constructionsite team of about 30, 40 people
building some office towers inthe city, and it was big, it was
long hours.
There were people there thatwere very smart, high pressure,
a lot of yelling, screaming,pushing and just high pressure

(21:22):
scenarios.
It wasn't just me, like,everyone was like that.
So that was one thing that Idefinitely took from that
business specifically and then Icarried that on I think
throughout all my career, evenat the other organizations.
You carried what on, like thatlevel of working hard and being

(21:43):
like having almost puttingyourself in that high pressure
situation like just no, no,let's get it done, let's go,
let's go, let's go, like alwaysmoving, you know, not saying
step, not just oh, that's oh,wow 3 30 on a friday, let's have
, let's have a drink.
It's like no, no, you still gottwo hours worth of work.
Hurry up and coming in onsaturday.
And it's like so I did takethat with me and I think that

(22:07):
helped me in my career, becausepeople maybe it's because it
wasn't such a common thingamongst people so when they saw
someone come in like that it waslike, oh fuck, what's this guy
serious?
You know, when I was atBuildcept I was always the first
one in the office bar.
A few times one of thedirectors was in there earlier
than me, but I was always thereat least 7 am, but generally

(22:28):
between 6, 30 and 7 am, everysingle day.
I was the first employee in theoffice, always, um, but I kind
of again wore that like a badgeof honor like this is me, this
is what I do, I'm going to bethe one that known to be coming
to work early and I also likejust getting my coffee in the
morning, chilling out, outbefore the work actually, before
the day actually started.
So that's definitely one thingI took along with me the hard

(22:54):
work.
I think it's more thepersistence.
When I say persistence I meanthe constant moving forward like
just always doing something,not just all right, that's cool,
let's go on my phone for thenext hour.
See what I mean.

(23:15):
I never felt like there wasdays where I was lazy.
There was one period ActuallyI'm going to take that back
there was one time when I was atAbbey Group and we'd finished a
big project and I was inbetween projects and I literally
had nothing to do.
I was in an office and I hadnothing to do and I was so bored
that I ended up just like Ifound an old something, some

(23:38):
office supplies in an office,and I just put it on eBay for
something to do and just sold itCash.
Yeah, I'm not budding Like Ijust went and bought lollies or
I don't know something for theoffice with it.
I was just had nothing to do.
And I found, funny enough, thatthat period was, for me,
difficult because I was so bored.

Robby (24:02):
Three years.

George (24:03):
I reckon it would have been a period of maybe six weeks
.
Fuck, that's ages.
Look, it wasn't completelynothing, but they were
insignificant tasks.
Oh here, print review thisreport.
Okay, Just stupid, minusculethings.
I had no purpose behind what Iwas doing other than just
filling in the day, and that'swhere I probably realized that I

(24:26):
need to keep busy.
I think that was maybe somethingthat came to me then, that I
need to be busy and doingsomething, otherwise I'll go the
complete opposite, and that'sprobably why I don't pick up
video games much these days,because it's like I'll play, I'm
like cool, I'm going to playfor seven hours, don't talk to
me.
And if I I'm not busy, thenthat's when I start to get lazy

(24:49):
and just rest and sit back anddon't do anything and go the
other extreme.
So that's why I find myself Ialways want to keep moving
forward and doing things um,here's a question.

Robby (25:01):
So you in you said you were building office towers.

George (25:04):
Yeah, it was like a $300 million job.

Robby (25:07):
So why don't you do that now that's a good question
Throwing you under the bus?

George (25:14):
No, no, there's a level, of Not ability.
What's the word I'm looking for?
I have to work up to it.
I can't just go win a $300million job tomorrow.
Of course, yeah, you don't havethe capacity, the capacity,
that's what I'm looking for.
It's not capacity, it's evenfrom a financial point of view,
I could win the job, but thebank won't approve me building

(25:37):
it.
Like the financier Say, if it'sbeing financed by NAB, they're
going to say no, this builderdoesn't qualify for you to use
them, they're at too high riskbecause they've never done a job
like that before.
So there is that element too.
So you kind of have to buildyour way up to it.
So it would have to be cool.
Let's do we've done a $6million job, then you do a 10,
then you do a 15, then you do a30 and you move up like that.

(25:58):
Is that the goal?
No, not specifically.
My goal is to make as muchmoney as possible on every
single project, regardless ofits size.
So I'm more focused on thataspect, because the thing with
that space particularly, it'slike the bigger the job, the
smaller the margin Percentage asa percentage.

Robby (26:19):
yes, yeah, but who cares?
I care why.
There's a lot more.
So would you rather make 25% ona $400,000?

George (26:25):
I know what you're saying.
Yeah, I know what you're saying.
Or would you rather?

Robby (26:27):
make 10% on a $4 million.

George (26:29):
Yeah, but then it's okay , Like the other day, say, okay,
cool, more money, more problems, as in, the bigger the risk,
yeah, margins.
The risks are still there froma construction perspective and
they're generally if somethingfucks up, it's a significant
amount more to fix too.
So it's all relative in thatregard.

Robby (26:48):
So why don't you just do bathroom windows then I mean, if
that's the mentality, becauseyou have bigger margins and way
less risk.
I mean there's no structuralstuff.

George (27:01):
Yeah, but the percentage difference is vastly different.

Robby (27:05):
You might make 50% on the bathroom really.

George (27:07):
Yeah, I know, I know what you're saying, but it gets
to that point though.
I just don't Challenging youhere.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know I.
Just there's too many factorsin construction for me to feel
comfortable doing it at thoseprices.
So I know, for example, I knowthis, I can see you're not

(27:28):
comfortable doing it.
I, yeah, I.
It's too much risk.
There's too much risk For theamount of money.

Robby (27:39):
It's too much risk Like okay, you're saying you're going
to make $3 million, define toomuch.

George (27:42):
You're going to say okay .
You're saying you're going tomake however much, $5 million on
this.
Build Cash, cash, yeah, underthe table.

Robby (27:52):
Define too much risk, a lot of risk, high risk, too much
risk, I'd say high risk.

George (27:58):
It's high risk.
Yeah, it's construction at theend of that, there's so many
moving parts in it.
Very high money too, yeah, Iknow.
But okay, doing $100 million ina media deal or social media or
doing something like that,there's not as many moving parts
, there's not as many variablesin that regard and things that
could cost you potential money.

(28:20):
In that space You're veryreliant on like the thing with
construction, I find, is you'rejust reliant on people to do the
right, to do their job to thebest of their ability and not
make any mistakes.
And it always happens Every joblike.
You've known the shit that I'mgoing through at the moment with
a couple of our projects.
We've had some significantproblems on there that have cost
a lot of money to fix.

(28:41):
And then you look at it and yougo okay, we've delivered that
project, we've got it all done.
It was probably our biggestproject to date from a single
monetary value Lesser marginsthan when I go on other projects
as well.
But then, as a result of someof these fuck-ups that have
happened along the way andmistakes that have just happened

(29:03):
.
You know, it's not because we'repoor quality builders or
anything, it's just human nature.
I've put it in humans' handsand humans have fucked it, but I
have to pay for it or thecompany has to pay for it, sorry
, and things have got to comeinto play there.
I look at that and go okay froma strategic point of view for
me to go out now and get anothertwo, three apartment projects.
Would we learn from our lessonson that one?

(29:24):
Yes, absolutely.
But looking at the time, therisks, the resources, everything
that's associated with that, Ican do another project half the
value, three quarters of thevalue and make significantly
more money on that.
So I'd rather do 10 of thoseprojects than one of that.

Robby (29:43):
Yeah, okay.

George (29:44):
But so Because it's still Look, so it's not Okay,
the value of money doesn't scareme, right?
So it's not the three I'drather do than If we're talking
300 mil, well, how do we build300 million worth of luxury
homes as opposed to one $300million tower?
That's how I would look at it.
Million tower that's how Iwould look at it, because,

(30:08):
putting all the eggs in that$300 million tower, I'm not
geared up for it.
To do that, I'd have to buildup, they'd have to employ a lot
more people.
There's a lot more things thatcome into play, but let's just
assume that it's just pureconstruction.
I can build it with my teamthat I've got now.
I still feel that the riskassociated with that one tower
is much more than me doing $300million worth of luxury homes.

Robby (30:28):
Yeah, but $300 million worth of luxury homes is like.
Who does that?

George (30:33):
Yes, I know, but there's not many people that do $300
million buildings either.
Not many, no, it'd be a it's ahandful, yeah, in the city,
that's right In the country.
It's a handful in the city,that's right In the country.

Robby (30:44):
But you know, it's like we always preach to why you plan
so small, Because thatmentality of like that's too
much risk.
Someone could be doing bathroomreno, saying building houses I
guarantee you there is someonelistening to this right now that
probably does renos orsomething like that and says nah

(31:04):
, nah, new builds Not going todo that.

George (31:05):
A basement.
Nah, new builds Not going to dothat.

Robby (31:06):
A basement Too much risk Not going to build a basement
Apartment, no way.

George (31:08):
Nah way too much risk.

Robby (31:09):
Yes, you're right, you're right, yeah, so what is it?
I just explained it.
No, no, yeah, like so, if thatperson says that about what
they're doing and I'm sure thatthat person says it about
something else Like, nah,building overseas?
Nah, nah, too much risk.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Nah, we can't build in the USor in Singapore, it's way too

(31:30):
much risk.
But what is it?
What's the element of?
Okay, cool, how are you goingto get comfortable with that?
At what point are you going toturn around and say you know?

George (31:42):
what?
Yeah, we can do that, or wewant to do that.
Maybe there's a level of want,there is a level of want.

Robby (31:47):
Is George Passos getting comfortable?

George (31:49):
No, I don't want to do that, though I don't want to
build a $300 million tower.
You also don't want to get inan ice bath.
Yeah, I don't want to.

Robby (31:56):
What am I going to get in an ice bath?

George (31:58):
for it's nice out.
I've still got to come to thatgym with you.
I'm actually starting back nextweek, built the gym Built by
the Gurner Group.

Robby (32:08):
Oh was it?
Yeah, very cool.
Who are?
And we spoke about this theother day.
We did Tim Gurner.
He's only.
I thought he was an old man.
No, I knew he was.
I didn't know how old he was,but I knew he was.

George (32:17):
He's in his 40s.
I didn't know how old he was,but I knew he was he's in his
40s, yeah.

Robby (32:22):
With half a billion dollars.
Half a bill and I'm like cool,good on you.
Well done, full credit to him.

George (32:32):
You were annoyed, I was annoyed.
I was annoyed when you told meas well, you came into my office
and annoyed me.

Robby (32:39):
Yeah, good, I'm glad You're welcome.

George (32:45):
But he doesn't build.

Robby (32:47):
Yeah, he develops, that's right.

George (32:50):
Yeah, yeah, because he's passing on that risk, because
I've seen a lot of people thinkthat they can do that as well.

Robby (32:56):
But there's also the risk that he takes.

George (32:59):
So there's a different risk.
He gives a risk that thebuilder goes broke.
He's gambling money, yeah, he'sgambling money.

Robby (33:02):
He's like okay, cool, I'm going to tip all this money
into this thing.

George (33:06):
You know, even GC says that too about building and
contracting.
He doesn't build anything.
Because I think people haveasked him like why don't you
build?
You've obviously got the moneyand the backing and the
resources.
Why don't you go and buildapartments instead of buying
them ready-made and ready to goand move into?
And he says there's just waytoo much risk associated with
construction, because that's whyI don't touch it.

Robby (33:27):
I'm sure that was music to your ears.

George (33:31):
I pinned the saying up on the wall.
I think I watch that videoevery morning.
Because here's the thing,here's the thing, here's the
thing.
Right, if I was Tim, with myskill set of being a builder, I
probably wouldn't build either.
Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah, but why wouldn't?

(33:53):
I, why not?
Why am I going to pay thisbuilder now $5 million in profit
when I can just keep thatmyself?

Robby (34:00):
Yeah, but so you can't do that.
What do you mean?
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Like why are you only the sparky?
Because you're not a builderyet.
Why, yes?

Robby (34:10):
yes, I know I'm saying yes, yes, yes, yes you don't
mean yeah, why are you so?

George (34:14):
I would love, okay, I would build it.
I'd love to build a 300 milliondollar tower as a developer.
Yeah, yeah, that's and that'swhere I think the game is.
I don't feel that that spacefor me.
I don't want to, I don't wantto get into that space, plain
and simple.
Do you understand my question?
Yeah, you're saying from alevel of comfort.

(34:34):
I'm saying why I don't like itenough.

Robby (34:38):
Do you like money.

George (34:40):
I do like money a lot, but I don't feel that that's my
path to money.

Robby (34:45):
I reckon there's like, with the way the world's about
to change.
I reckon there's probably fiveareas that are going to be
untapped.
When I say untapped I mean Notaffected by it as much Less
affected, you know, I thinkconstruction's one.

George (35:02):
Yeah, I think so too, For a while anyway you know, I
think construction's one.

Robby (35:06):
Yeah, I think so too, for a while anyway, I think.
Even if AI is doing theconstruction, I think there'll
still be a human element.

George (35:11):
There'll be a human element from the perspective of.

Robby (35:14):
there'll be, Well, the human's going to design it dude
Like in the sense of the human.
It's got to be based on humansliving in it.

George (35:20):
But also there's.
There's a level ofcraftsmanship and beauty in
something that's made by aperson Not to be perfect, To be
imperfect.
Do you know what I mean?
I think so.
Yeah, for sure.

Robby (35:33):
There's a level of it Okay.
This is that.
Another one is like cars, likepeople are always going to buy
cars, like we use cars to travel.
Another one's aviation, like wealways going to buy cars, like
we use cars to travel.
Another one's aviation, likewe're going to always travel.
Like the humans are alwaysgoing to want to go overseas,
blah, blah, blah.
Another one's food we're alwaysgoing to eat.
So it's like there's like these, these little pockets of things

(35:56):
where it's like these are goingto be probably, maybe untapped
in our lifetime.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like they might always havesome level of human.
And it's like how do youmaximize your capacity in that?
Like you're already one.
Like how do you maximize yourcapacity in it?

(36:17):
How do you make the most ofthat space?
Or do you just keep doing whatyou're doing?

George (36:21):
Yeah, I don't know the question, I don't know the doing
.
Yeah, I don't know the question, I don't know the answer.
Sorry, I don't know the answerto that.

Robby (36:27):
Yeah, because it's very easy to get comfortable ticking
along doing what you're doing,making a decent buck.
Life's good.
Don't stress too much about theprices.
When I go to a restaurant, getto eat what I want when I want.
How much is a coffee?
I don't know.

George (36:49):
Yeah, it's funny, that's like you want to buy milk?
Here's a grand.
Remember when you were younger,did you ever use the coupons
for fuel, like the Coles?
Four cents a liter, off Fourcents, yeah, yeah, that was flat
.
I had them everywhere.
I had them in my car.
Just chockers in the glove box,pull one out and you know, I
used to know like every Thursdayit was cheap at this fuel

(37:11):
station and you'd go and fill upon your tank.
I wouldn't even know what thecost of fuel is a litre now.
Around two bucks, I'm guessing.

Robby (37:19):
But I've never checked the cost of fuel.
I've never checked the cost offuel Ever.
Well, what are you going topull in and be like, oh, it's
that much, I'm not going to,I'll do without it today?

George (37:26):
Well, when I was young, You'd do without it Back in?
No, not with, not without it.

Robby (37:29):
Yeah, I know You're going to fill up anyway.

George (37:32):
I know, but there's people that do that because I've
been there before now and itannoyed me and I'm still not
where I want to be.
So I'm quite driven at themoment and even working hard,

(37:55):
like the six months I've beenworking hard.
I've been doing that because Iwant to get out of this position
that I'm in right now and havenot position.
I want to get out of theseprojects and have them finished
and hand it over so we canconcentrate on the next batch
and getting them 100% right andmoving forward, Cause we've won
some really cool projects aswell and now it's about well,
how do we go to three?
How do we go again to the nextbatch of projects so that we

(38:18):
have to go out and hire morepeople?

Robby (38:21):
I've actually got a really good idea.
I need to talk to you about.

George (38:22):
Yeah, let's lock in some time.
Great idea, good.
But yeah, look, I get whatyou're saying.
Then you know why.
What's okay.
So let's put it the other way.
Why aren't you filming TV?

Robby (38:37):
I'm trying, Good yeah, I would take that if they gave us
the opportunity or David.

George (38:43):
So where's the step to get in?

Robby (38:48):
How do you get there?
Yeah, it's very much, you knowthere's channel 10.

George (38:51):
Yeah, how do we make channel Robbie?
Yeah, everyone watch my YouTubeyou subscribe.

Robby (38:57):
You subscribe, yeah, no.
No, that's a fair question.
There's a few differentelements, elements, but I think
it's initially people believingyou can.
I think that's the biggestfactor, like you know what I
mean.
Like I look at credibility,yeah, I look at this opportunity
I was just talking about withmercedes and I'm like this would

(39:19):
be huge.
Yeah, because then it's aluxury brand.
Yeah, then I can imagine, likeadjusted by mercedes, yeah,
that's.
Yeah, it's a huge endorsement.

George (39:27):
All of a sudden.

Robby (39:27):
now, if I go and I pitch Coles to a we work with Mercedes
Like the real deal.
Mercedes doesn't work withanyone.
Do you know what?

George (39:38):
I mean, yeah, I think that's very I think that's 100%
bang on, Massive, Without adoubt.
And it's the same thing Likethis apartment project we've
just finished.
It's our first apartmentproject we've done Second I'll
say second, but a standaloneapartment building.
That's the first one we've done.
So now I can turn around andsay, well, cool, there's the
notch on the belt and, funnyenough, we had another apartment

(40:05):
.
Say, oh, I'm not that keen toget into another apartment
project.
I'd get into another apartmentproject, but it's all going to
be again making sure we maximizethe profits on the project
That'd be.
The challenge for me is to getthis, is to convince someone to
pay me at the margins that Iwork at, as opposed to paying
what the industry-.

Robby (40:25):
Doesn't that margin matter?
With what?
The percentage?
You don't disclose it?
No, but does it matter why?

George (40:31):
wouldn't you disclose it ?
Oh, I never disclose.
Why would I?
Do you tell people how muchmoney you make on a job?

Robby (40:36):
No, no, but I'm not heavily based on their materials
.

George (40:43):
Yeah.
So why would I disclose that toa client how much money we're
making or what percentage we'regoing in on in a project?
They would get a fixed lump sum.
So if you wanted me to buildsomething for you, you go how
much is it?
It's this much money?
And you go, cool.
And then I say this is how wegot to that figure, with all
these breakout prices.
But none of those breakoutswill be concrete, plus George's

(41:06):
30% or Pascon's 30%.
You'll never see that.

Robby (41:11):
Yeah, fair enough.
I don't know, I've never built.

George (41:12):
The only reason I say that is I don't see it as a
factor.
I don't want it to be a factoras to why someone would want to
select me as their builder ornot, or select the company as
their builder or not.

Robby (41:23):
Yeah, fair enough.
What was the question beforethat though?

George (41:27):
So we're talking about how, oh so the challenge for me
would be, if I was going to doanother apartment project, is to
pay me above industry standards.

Robby (41:37):
Yeah, but that's what I was saying to you.
Does the percentage matter?

George (41:41):
It'll affect your price, obviously, the higher it goes
up.
Most people, I believe.
The size of the build yeah, itwould to a degree.
The size of the build yes, somost people.
Then, the bigger the build, thelesser the percentage, yeah,
but the more money they make,yes, correct, correct.

Robby (41:59):
I was just looking at, but here's the thing right.

George (42:01):
Whether you're building a five-story or a 10-story
building, right, the risks atfive are the same as the risks
at 10, but then you're usingless margin at the 10 because
there's more volume, do you?

Robby (42:16):
know what I mean, but you're making more money.

George (42:18):
The risks still but the risks still.
If not, it's more because youkeep going up in high, but
you're making more dollars.
Yes, yes you are.

Robby (42:26):
The percentage is irrelevant.

George (42:28):
Is it it?

Robby (42:29):
is.

George (42:29):
How is it irrelevant?
Who cares?
You're making more moneybecause You're making more
dollars at the end of the day.

Robby (42:34):
Yes, you are.
Yeah.
So who cares if it's 8% or 10%or 20% or 100%?
Who cares?
I care why?
Because the figure's irrelevant, it's not irrelevant, it is
100% irrelevant.
But why is it irrelevant?
Because it doesn't matter.
It's the dollar amount thatmatters.
Yeah, I get that.
Do you go when you go toWoolies and you say can I pay
with my 22% profit on thiscontract?

(42:54):
No, no.

George (43:01):
You pay with the dollar factor that needs to be
accounted into that dollaramount.
But you're making more, yeah,but not as much, hey, to counter
the risk that's associated withthat.
You're making more, but thenyou're exposing yourself to more
too.
That's the world we live in,dude.
Yes, the more you want to make,the more you're exposed Okay,
but I want to lessen thatexposure as far as practicable.

Robby (43:20):
Yeah, so there's no parking meters.

George (43:22):
No, but I can still play in that game.
It's just got to be on theterms that I want it to be.
And this is where it's a matterof changing things, the
perceptions of being.
Look, I had a mate that workedin the States and he worked for
quite a big commercialconstruction company and he goes
.
They don't touch jobs Like ifthey made 30% on a project.
It was a disaster, disaster.

(43:43):
This is like for officebuildings big hundreds of
millions of dollars worth ofjobs.
He goes if they were makingless than 30%.
Alarm bells everywhere here, thebig tier one construction
companies.
They operate on 2% 3%.
They hope to design thebuilding in a way that picks
them up another 2%, 3%.
That's how they make theirmoney.

(44:03):
So why is the mentality herethat, oh no, no, we're making
good money.
That should be enough.
And that's partly why I don'tever disclose my figures to
anyone, because I know as soonas I put that down, they'll look
at me and go oh, george ismaking half a million dollars on
this job.
Oh, but this builder is onlymaking 300.
Let's go with this guy.
People will be.
Whether they like to admit itor not, they will use that as a

(44:27):
determining factor to selecttheir builder.

Robby (44:29):
Yeah, but that's not what I was.
I wasn't talking aboutdisclosing it.

George (44:33):
Well, when Are you talking about the monetary
difference?
Yeah, yeah.
So what I'm getting at is Istill want to charge the
percentage that I want to charge, but the percentage is
irrelevant.
It's relevant in the sense thatthe risk that is associated
with that is still relevant thewhole way up the building.
It's always going to berelevant.
Yes, it's more, but I don'tfeel that the difference between

(44:55):
that and the risk associated isworth the extra amount.
Yeah, it's worth doing that job, so okay.
So instead of me making forlevels five to 10, I should be
for levels one to five.
I'm making $5 million.
For levels five to 10, I'mmaking $7 million, but I've
still got the same amount ofrisk going up that building.

(45:16):
Yeah, okay, even though I'mmaking $2 million more.

Robby (45:21):
Oh, so you reckon the risk doubles from five to 10?
.

George (45:24):
It's not that it doubles , but it's still significant
enough to have like if I have aproblem.
$2 million is a significantamount of money, yes, but the
bigger the building, the biggerthe problem can be.
Yeah.
So there's a huge level of thatfactor.
Like, I don't think thosepercentages are feasible.
Like, why did ProBuild go brokeyears ago?
They were a billion dollarcompany, it was during COVID, in

(45:52):
all fairness with them, butthey were operating on those
levels, on that level of profitand they just couldn't sustain
it.
I know COVID was probably notthe best of examples because it
just went from one huge extremeto the other as far as cost
blowouts are concerned, but inthe same token they were exposed
in that time.
Do you reckon that company inthe States that's making 30% on

(46:13):
office buildings was affected asmuch?
Probably not.

Robby (46:18):
Yeah, but you can always sit there and talk about the way
you wish things were.
Why not change them?
Hey, why not change them?
Hey, why not change them?
It's not going to change.
Why not?
Why?
Because if I'm a developer andyou're saying you want 30%, and
this guy will do it for three.

George (46:32):
But what if there's a difference that I can?
There could be other thingsthat come with that.
There could be the, the factthat you get to work with me,
the brand alignment.
There could be the speed inwhich we do it, because if you
throw me more money, maybe I canthrow more men at it and get
this thing done better.
Or I can throw the bestconstruction minds at it, not
the okay construction minds, theones that based off 3% margin,

(46:54):
the ones we're going to get thebest in the country, because
we're making 30% on this job andinstead of it getting done in
two years, it gets done in oneyear, and so on and so forth.
There's the huge flow andeffect.
So, yes, I hear what you'resaying.
The monetary value is more, butI would rather challenge that
and go cool.
Do you want us to build it?
This is what it's going to cost.

(47:15):
This is where it's at, becauseit's relevant on everything.
I'm never the cheapest builderever.
I don't.
I don't think I've ever beenthe cheapest.
I've been in the middle, I'vebeen the most expensive, but
I've never been the cheapest.
And people want to pay thepremium, or when I say premium,
they want to pay more becausethey know what they're getting.
They or they see what they'regetting, they see the service,

(47:36):
they see the product, they getto know me, they get to know the
company, and there's more thatcomes with that.
So I would rather grow thebusiness steadily and go from,
say, doing the $5 million jobswell, let's go to the $7 million
jobs, but keep maintaining ourprofit.
And then go okay, seven, nowlet's go to 10, but keep
maintaining our profit.
$10 million project, and so onand so forth.

(47:57):
But do you believe that's howit works?
No, there's still people,because I'm sure I'll get to
that $10 million project andthere's going to be that guy
that goes here, I'll do this for$5 million.

Robby (48:09):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, but isn't that the way
it works?

George (48:14):
With what Undercutting?
No who said it Bezos?
I think said it he goes.
Your margin is my opportunity.

Robby (48:24):
What does that mean?

George (48:25):
As in if you want to make more margin, that's fine.
He goes.
I'll come in and find a way todo it cheaper and deliver the
same product.
It's his opportunity.

Robby (48:35):
It's dangerous man.
But what I'm trying to say isis that not the way the industry
works?

George (48:42):
Yes.

Robby (48:43):
So for you to do this, I'm sure the biggest project
you've done has had a lowerpercentage, probably a higher
dollar figure, but a lowerpercentage than a smaller job
that you've done Smallest job,if I dare say.

George (48:58):
Yes, yes, there has been , but then again I've done
another job that was lesserpercentage, sorry, lesser value,
but greater money on it.
Yeah, happening right now.
So we've done these apartments.
I've got another job, which isa smaller project, where I'm
making more money on that jobthan what I will the apartment
project.

Robby (49:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm not saying you can'twalk away with a higher dollar
figure.

George (49:22):
Yeah, that's right, but that's what I want to be
targeting.
If that space is known for me,only okay.
Let's just say apartments.
Make a really general call onit, builders make 5%, that's it
All right.
Or there are builders that willdo it and do it well.
Yeah, they're set up, they'reready to go, they come in and
they do the job and they're at5%.

(49:44):
Why should I keep looking andhammering those projects when
I'm making another job of lesservalue, making more money on it?

Robby (49:55):
Because that means you're doing something wrong.
I am yeah.
Why?
Because the person who does thebigger project almost always
makes more money.
But in this instance, rightyeah, but I think you did
something wrong.
I don't know On which job theone where you didn't make as
much, the bigger project whereyou didn't make as much?

George (50:18):
Aside from, aside, no, yeah, aside from.

Robby (50:21):
The mentality, the mentality you have is like
saying what's the point ofhaving all these employees and
having all these outgoings?
I'd rather just make my 500K ayear.
I get to keep most of it.

George (50:31):
That's the same mentality.

Robby (50:32):
Yeah, so I was looking at this thing the other day.
The UFC is this weekend.

George (50:37):
By the time this airs, it'll be the Side note are they
moving off pay-per-views?
I heard yeah.
And they're going tosubscription somewhere CBS or
something.

Robby (50:47):
Paramount.
Paramount yeah, cool, yeah,they did a $7.7 billion deal,
sick, sick, anyway.
The UFC this weekend is at theUnited Center in Chicago and I
was looking at the United Center.
I'm thinking to myself how muchmoney do you have to make to
sponsor a stadium Like?

(51:10):
How much do you have to make?
They would pay a lot of moneyto have their, like Eddie had.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What's it called now?
Marvel?
Why is it called Marvel?
They pay the money.
Marvel.
How much do you reckon theypaid?
No idea.
Hey Siri, let me fucking findout right now, because I want
the dollar figure yeah.

(51:32):
Because people listening to this, like I was doing the math the
other day for like when can wethe next hire?
And I'm like how the fuck am Igoing to put my name on a
stadium?
Yeah, do you know what I mean?
Like these guys would pay waymore than you pay an employee to
get their name on the stage.
How do you do those dollars?
To do those dollars, you got tobe doing massive.
You know what I mean.
And it's like that's the game,dude.
Yes, and it's like this wholething about volume is vanity.

(51:56):
Profit is sanity.
Guess what?
Without the volume, there is nofucking profit.
You know what I mean.

George (52:06):
If you guess what, without the volume there is no
fucking profit.
You know?
I mean if you turn over amillion bucks a year.
You cannot make more than amillion bucks a year.

Robby (52:09):
Yeah, and it's also the whole concept around our mates
like metricon, right, so theypump out the vault like their
projects wouldn't have hugemargins on it, but they pump out
the volume, yeah, but so youeither got to go a thing where,
like, you can do a lot of itlike in the sense of volume,
yeah or you got to go to thething where you can do a lot of
it, like in the sense of volume,or you got to go to the thing
where it is so high ticket thatyou can sell less and do more.

(52:30):
if that makes sense, what wouldMetricon's margins be?
No idea.

George (52:38):
Couldn't tell you.

Robby (52:40):
What am I going to write here?
How much does it cost tosponsor a stadium?

George (52:43):
Naming rights.
Ask what are the naming rightsfor Marble Stadium?
Is that?

Robby (52:51):
what it's called.
Yeah.
What are the naming?

George (52:55):
Or what is the value of the naming rights to Marble
Stadium?
That should be public knowledge, I would have thought.

Robby (53:01):
I don't think there's anything private anymore.
The naming rights for Marvelstadium are held by the Walt
Disney company Australia, newZealand.
This is part of an eight yeardeal.
Five to $8 million per year.
Five to $8 million per year.

George (53:21):
And they say the value in that, that, in having their
name on a stadium, that's it,yeah, but like so there's two
elements to that.

Robby (53:29):
One, how powerful is that for brand awareness?
But two, how much money are you?
Do you need to be turning overto throw, say, a cool eight
million a year just to nate likedude?
Most people would not do that.
Most people like no, eight,well, four stadium.
Nah, like, you know what I mean.
And it's like how do you playthat game?
You know I mean, how do youplay the, the, the gurner group

(53:51):
game yeah how do you play thegame they're playing?
because you can't tell methey're not making a fuck ton of
money, dude.
No, of course not.
Yeah, but it's like why?
Okay, so what do you need to doto play the game that they're
playing?
Do you know?
I mean because you and I said itthe other day, I'm, like you
know, sending you having aconversation about uh, your next

(54:14):
high level of grand, yeah, orlike a couple of grand package a
month and getting all thispushback and dealing with all
these objections, and then it'slike this isn't the game.
You know what I mean.
Like this is not okay cool.
Like got from here to there.
How do we go from here tofucking there?

George (54:33):
From the chopper to the yacht.

Robby (54:36):
Do you get what I'm saying?
How do you get to that point,like, how do you, what are the
things You've got to be doing?
Those big developments dude, oryou need to significantly
increase the amount of volume.
So either doing this level ofproject or this level of project
a thousand times.

George (54:52):
Yeah, it's a, it's a great question and it's good to
ponder that.
And it's good that you'regetting that level of annoyance
because I think, especially nowthat you're not sick anymore
yeah, it's good, good drugs.
It's good that you're havingthis conversation now, because
it can very quickly and easilyturn into your mates at Mercedes

(55:12):
, where it's 10 years go by andyou're like, oops, how did that
happen?
So at least you're having thoseconversations.
Do you know what I mean?

Robby (55:20):
Yeah, I don't stop thinking about it yeah, yeah Do
you know what I mean.
I don't stop thinking about itand it's like cool, like how
cool would it be to be the Iused to work here and now
they're our client.
That's a cool story, my word,do you know what I mean?
And then, how cool would it beto be like I used to work here
and now I own 19 dealerships.

(55:41):
Yeah, Do you know what I mean?
And they call them Mercedes,robbie Benz.
We cut him off, got rid of theBenz, we got rid of him.
I just think people shouldaspire to that.
I think it's pretty cool.

George (55:55):
People don't think about it enough.
As you said, a huge level ofcomfort, but also I reckon
there's a huge level of I'llnever achieve that.
I'll never, as if I'm evergoing to have enough money to
sponsor a stadium.

Robby (56:09):
That's what I'm saying, but someone is.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Everywhere, everywhere in theworld, that's right.
Every stadium has a name.

George (56:16):
That's right.
Someone is doing it.
One person is doing that stuff.
One person's cracked the code,taken the risk.
I think there's a level of that.
You have to take risks.
You have to go out and dothings.

Robby (56:34):
Business is risky.
If anything, you would arguethat there's more risk in small
business.
Whilst you feel like the riskis smaller, going broke on a
$100 million project and goingbroke on a $1 million project is
going broke.

George (56:42):
Same thing, isn't it?

Robby (56:42):
Yeah, so you fucking roll the dice, roll the dice, but
the problem is we don't know,how to handle the going broke
thing.
Do you know what I mean?
Yep, like, roll the fuckingdice, let's play.
Time is limited.
Anyway, time is really limited,it is.

(57:07):
So, to wrap this up, don't gettoo comfortable, don't stay in
the same workplace forever yeah,I'm both fortunate we're going
to get people to resign.
But fuck no.
But don't stay in the sameworkplace forever.
Don't stay in the same positionforever.

George (57:18):
That's right.
Go like even 100%.
That's a really good thing.
Change is good, change isinevitable.
Yeah, exactly right.

Robby (57:28):
It's just about what you're changing, and is it
purposeful change, or is it?

George (57:33):
We should end these episodes with a quote, I reckon.

Robby (57:37):
Hit us, you got something .

George (57:38):
I did find one, the other day.
I always write quotes down whenI come across them and I like
them, do you Not?
Always In your journal?
Not always, but sometimes on myphone.

Robby (57:48):
There was one I liked the other day, george the
Philosopher.
Yeah, what's the quote?
Subscribe.

George (57:56):
The quote is oh, I like this one.
One of the toughest thingsabout being a father is when you
realize you're raising the onesyou can't live without to live
without you.
I like that one.
Patrick Brett Davidson, thatone actually.

Robby (58:21):
Best thing I've ever heard about kids was that
russell brand thing.
Which one was that he's like?

George (58:24):
best case scenario you don't know your lives yeah, that
was like when you, when I heardthat, I just said that's the
first time.

Robby (58:29):
Yeah, I was like I should got a, I got emotional.
Yeah, I was like man, that islike and that's best case
scenario.
You're like you hope you havefull control.
You play god for a moment.
They're like how do you wantthis play out?
You're.
You're like yeah, me first,yeah.
Every day yeah, insane,insanity.
You win, that's a win.
Yeah, that's like, this is bestcase.
That's insanity.
I just got chills.

George (58:52):
Well, well, thanks for tuning in.
It's always a great discussion.
You know, sometimes these talksthat we have it's like all
coaching, self-coaching.
It's good to have theconversation because you don't
always just sit there in myoffice or your office for an
hour and just have this chat.
It's great that you guys, a,get to listen to it, but B

(59:13):
hopefully it motivates youenough to go out there and
actually go.
You know what?
Fuck it, I'm going to quit, I'mgoing to go find a new job.
Maybe even if you's a mechanicat, you're a mechanic at Merck
and you go, fuck it.
Let's see what Aston Martin'sdoing.
I don't know.
It doesn't mean you have to goand become a florist, but maybe
you just need that next level,that next change, something,

(59:34):
something, something.
Why do it for another 10 yearsIf you're a different story, if
you're getting fulfillment outof it and you'd love coming to
work every single day and, aswe've said in the past, like if
that's what you love and that'swhat makes you happy and being a
Mercedes or being at Holden orwhatever it is, you're happy,
you've won, but it's comfort.

Robby (59:53):
Yeah, that's the killer, cause people will convince
themselves that they are happy.
Yeah, cause I'm like Doing that.
Yeah, yeah, because the thoughtof change is too scary, the
thought of, ah, but I know thisplace, but I know how this place
, you know, I know how to get inhere, I know what the traffic's
like, I know the morning route,I know, I know, I know, I know.

George (01:00:10):
And it's so true Because I remember when I got made
redundant at Maldi's and we'vegot to wrap it up.
But when I got made redundant Iwas like no, my plan was to
work here for the next 20 yearsand become director one day.
That was my plan and it wasn'tuntil I left and then got into
the new role.
I was like, wow, this place isso much better, I like this
company so much better thanwhere I used to work.

Robby (01:00:32):
And that's not always the case.
Sometimes you go and realize,hey, this sucks, yeah.

George (01:00:36):
But then I left again.
I left that company again,which I really loved, because I
had no more work.
So I left.
And then I went to anothercompany like, oh, this place is
sick, how good is this?
Then I started my own business.
This place is sick.
Anyway, thank you so much.
Guys, be sure to subscribe tothe channel.
Click the red button.
Wherever you are looking, thereis a red button somewhere.

(01:00:56):
Go and find it and just clickit.
Unless it says emergency stop,then definitely press it.

Robby (01:01:02):
It's always good.
Always got to press it.
I did that once when I wasleaving the storage, did you,
yeah?
And then I looked at the signon top.
It's like don't press thisbutton.

George (01:01:09):
It's too late.
Thanks guys, appreciate youtuning in.
Speak to you next time.
Thanks everybody.

Robby (01:01:19):
We are fucking running a tight fucking chip here.