The Hard Truths of Construction

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What if your home could maintain a perfect temperature year-round with barely any energy use? Thomas Coy joins us to reveal the fascinating world of passive house construction – a building approach that's revolutionizing how we think about sustainable homes.

Tom's journey from mowing lawns in the snow during a London gap year to founding a specialized construction company offers a compelling narrative about finding your path in the building industry. He shares candidly about his transition from carpenter to builder, growing a team, and the business lessons he learned the hard way – lessons that technical training never covered.

The heart of our conversation explores passive house construction, where Tom breaks down the technical elements that make these buildings so remarkable. With features like thermal-bridge-free design, triple-glazed windows, and continuous filtered air systems, these homes maintain a consistent 20-22°C throughout the year with minimal energy input. While costing 15-30% more upfront, the comfort and efficiency benefits quickly offset the investment. Imagine a home where there's only a 2-degree temperature difference between your feet and ceiling (versus 10 degrees in standard homes), no drafts, and allergens are filtered out continuously.

Beyond technical expertise, Tom reveals his "big scary goal" of building his company to a size where he can take his entire team to Africa to build a village – demonstrating how business success can become a vehicle for meaningful impact. His perspective on handling setbacks, prioritizing family, and finding purpose offers valuable wisdom for anyone navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship.

Connect with Tom and explore the future of sustainable building at coysconstructions.com.au or follow @coys.constructions on Instagram and Facebook to see these remarkable homes in action.

Episode Transcript

George (00:00):
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.
Another episode of MillionDollar Days.
I hope you are having a milliondollar day Today.
We are joined by a specialguest, Mr Thomas Coy.
Is it Thomas Coy or Tom Coy?
Surely your name is Thomas.
Surely your parents said, nah,this looks like a Thomas.

Guest (00:15):
Yes, it's definitely not a Tom.
My mum says Tom with an H in itas well.

George (00:19):
It upsets me, oh Jesus.

Guest (00:21):
I don't want that.

Robby (00:21):
Wait, what do you mean?
She said Tom with an H.

Guest (00:24):
No T-H-O-M not T-O-M, but how did she say Tom?

Robby (00:28):
No, she says Tom, but that's.
Oh so she should type it.

Guest (00:31):
No, she'll say it.
She'll say it.
No, it does type it sometimes.
Anyway, it's a real, am I?

George (00:46):
Is that when you're is?
Yeah, thanks for joining us,mates.
Um, we've been connected for afew years now.
It's amazing how quickly timegoes by, doesn't it?
A lot of shit's happenedbetween now and then, and we
wanted to get you on the podcastfor a little while, have a chat
and, yeah, just discuss yourjourney of business and and
running a construction companyand what it's meant for you.
So, thanks for joining us,thanks for having me.
So so what?
Um?
At what moment did you wake upin the morning and you were like

(01:07):
I'm going to become a builder.

Guest (01:11):
Uh, it's a good question, I it, I.
It just happened that way.
I never actually woke up andsaid I want to be a builder, you
just woke up and you were abuilder.
Yeah, You're like that's justcause I can't remember anything.
No, I actually wanted to be alandscaper, yeah right.
And then I had a gap year inLondon in 07, I think and I was,

(01:34):
you know, doing landscaping,mowing lawns in the snow, and I
said I hate this, this is notfor me.

George (01:38):
Mowing lawns in the snow .

Guest (01:40):
Yeah, it was snowing, you were mowing snow and I and I
was someone's lawn in chelseasomewhere and I was like this is
not not for me.
Um, however, obviously, being alandscaper in australia is very
different to in the uk, but, um, I discovered that I like the
hard aspects of the landscape inthe decks, the pergolas and
things like that.
And then, um, also when I wasliving in a hostel there for a

(02:01):
bit, I uh met some chippiesthere that that wereed up and I
thought, oh, this is all right,I want to be a chippy.
So I came back to Australia,started an apprenticeship and my
plan was to get a house and goback over there Once I'd done my
apprenticeship, rent the houseout and have an asset and live
in London.
And then it didn't quite workout that way.
So did you get yourapprenticeship in the uk?

(02:22):
No, no, no, I came back toaustralia.
Okay, yeah, what were you doingin the uk?
Just having a gap year, justtraveling after?
Oh, just okay yeah yeah, it'sgood.
I actually lost my licensedriving for nine months, so I
feel like I'll just go those.

Robby (02:35):
I says, yeah, that's it, they haven't banned me from
driving there.

George (02:38):
That's right, that's excellent and then so how long
did you work as a chibi once yougot qualified?
So were you working for someoneor did you go out pretty much
immediately and start your ownbusiness?
Like what?

Guest (02:52):
was your process.
I worked for someone, so Ifinished my apprenticeship, then
worked for someone else not myemployers at the time.
I worked for someone else forabout six months and then said
ah, I might as well just startmy own show and then started
Cooi Constructions back then.

George (03:05):
Yeah, excellent.
And you weren't a builder backthen, you were doing just your
carpentry Nah, just carpentry,but you're doing carpentry as
work.

Guest (03:12):
Yeah, yeah Is that good.

George (03:13):
Yeah, I was a contractor , yeah, Nice.
And then did you grow your teamLike was it yourself.

Guest (03:29):
Did you sort of go from being that one man show to then
having more people?
Yeah, so just myself, um, gainmore confidence on your skill
and ability as you do, comingout of your time, and then
started getting more demand forthe, for the work that I had,
and then started employing someuh, employed a apprentice, and
then two, then three, then four,and then the company just grew
and then realized that I had toomuch admin to do.
And then the next move was thejobs were getting too big.

(03:51):
I was turning jobs away due tothe size of them, being eligible
to do them as a carpenter.

George (03:58):
Yeah.

Guest (03:58):
So then I said I'll do my builder's licence.

George (04:03):
And yeah, I thought I'd made it when I'd signed a two
hundred thousand dollar job yeah, how funny that's like the day
you become registered, like howgood is this, I'm unstoppable
and I'm gonna make just where doI cash the check?
like show me, show me the placethat you go.
Little did I know.
Yes, yeah, look at.
And that's unfortunately a lotabout what.
Now the industry is a littlebit like that, you know it's

(04:23):
it's almost a license to failbecause they don't give you,
although they check technicallyyour sound which I'd say 95% of
the builders are technicallysound they don't give you some
of the business fundamentals,that fundamentals that you need
to have to run a successfulbusiness.
You know, you kind of learnthose the hard way most people
do.

Robby (04:42):
Isn't that?
Isn't that most industries?

George (04:47):
Oh look, perhaps, but there's a lot of risk.

Robby (04:48):
What industry do they teach you?
The business?
They don't.
They teach you how to do thejob.
Accountant.
What Accountant?
Accountants are the worst?
Dude accountants.
Do not.
Don't take business advice fromaccountants.
Take accounting advice fromaccountants.

Guest (05:00):
Yes.

Robby (05:01):
They know how to Accountant Numbers from
accountants.
They know how to account forstuff.
They don't know how to run abusiness and grow a business.
Most of them, some do, I'm sure.

George (05:09):
I'm sure there's a lot of businesses like that, but I
suppose in our industry it'soften high ticket prices, so
when you fuck up it costs youbig time.

Guest (05:19):
I guess you're so focused on getting the knowledge, the
acts, the regs.
I heard this saying that theknowledge you have to know as
being a licensed builder is asix by four trailer load full of
books.
You're never going to retainthat amount of information.
You just have to know where theanswers are.
Yeah, that's right and that'sintimidating because your head's
on the chopping block if youget something wrong.

George (05:38):
Yeah, you study this much, but you're only tested on
that much, and that's what it'sabout.
And the system is flawed forsure as far as how you go about
getting your registration, andthere should be more to it, not
just here.
You're a builder, go ahead andgo.
It's too easy.
No, it's actually.
Look, I think it's a difficultprocess these days.
I don't think it's necessarilyeasy and it needs to be

(05:59):
difficult because there's toomany cowboys out there Like this
has to be a protectedprofession, because what happens
is you get the guys that thinkthey're builders and they're not
, a builder's asshole Do youknow, what I mean.
They go out there and that'swho gives a bad name to good
builders like ourselves.
Goes out there and does a shitjob, doesn't deliver, can't
manage the business can't managetheir finances, goes broke,
reopens to something else andthen it's just a vicious cycle.

Guest (06:20):
Well, you know, if you can think back to when you first
started.
I know now, when I'm going andcompeting on price with people A
, it's a red flag and it'sdisqualified.
But if you do find yourselfinto that and the client hasn't
disclosed that there's otherbuilders competing for the same
project, you go well.
No, I'm holding my numbersbecause I know I've quoted that
job correctly.

(06:40):
I'm not the last.
I either cut the size of thebuilding down or you cut the
scope down.
That's the only way you'regoing to save money.

George (06:47):
Absolutely so.
I'm not here to build your home.
It's not to pay to build yourhome.
This is the price.
But there's a whole qualifyingprocess that you should go
through as a builder and you dolearn that the hard way as well.
It's like the ideal client inthe beginning is anyone with a
pulse.
And then it's like after that,once you get the runs on the
board, you get burnt a few times.
You learn the game.
You're like okay, cool, I needthat.
I'm not doing that again, yeahexactly you don't do that again,

(07:08):
but unfortunately it's like youhave to learn that lesson the
hard way, and you know a lot of.
What we do, particularly atBuilder Elite, is to make sure
we're teaching these lessonsearly on as a part of the
process, not after you've had 10years of experience, haven't
made much money and lost most ofyour hair and gone gray and all
that sort of stuff.
So it's definitely a difficultindustry.

(07:31):
But we actually met at abusiness conference many years
ago and what was your motivatingfactor to go and seek more
knowledge and training, just tobe better.

Guest (07:45):
Actually, it's funny you say that I actually listened to
an audio book on the drive inhere today and everyone has this
instinct to want to be betteror want to live a legacy behind
you know, to have that drivingforce, to have something that
lives on after you've gone,you've passed death.
So everyone knows what, I guess, turns a blind eye to death, I

(08:10):
guess, but they want somethingto last on after they're gone.
So that I guess, subconsciouslyis a driver, was a driver for
me to build something for mykids, for my family and
ultimately just to be better.
If there's something you don'tknow, knowledge is power and I
guess all that combined into oneto learn from someone to be

(08:33):
better.

George (08:34):
Yeah, and do you feel that that did make you better?

Guest (08:38):
It definitely opened my eyes to the aspects of it.

George (08:43):
It put a hell of a lot of stress on me at the time,
yeah well, I mean, that's howyou can grow, though, like the
stress aspect is part of thegame.

Robby (08:50):
Yeah.

George (08:51):
You know you've got to learn to handle it.
In any business there's levelsof stress and you know we've
said it on previous episodes aswell like, stress can be a
killer and kill you if you thinkit's going to kill you, but it
if you think it's going to killyou, but it can also be a
motivating factor that pushesyou to achieve great things and
get shit done.
It's just completely how you,how you've perceived that
implied stress that's put on you.

Robby (09:10):
And you've also asked for it.

George (09:12):
You're a business owner.

Guest (09:13):
Yeah, that's true and you can't always.
But you have two choices youcan sit there and go poor me,
poor me or you just go.
And yeah, I think, personally Ithink it was too much, too
quick, Put a hell of a lot ofstress on me, but yeah, I did
learn a lot and open my eyes tothe aspects of not just being a

(09:33):
builder forever, because I won'tbe.

George (09:35):
Yeah, and that's great that you can have that foresight
as well.
Yeah, yeah, really cool.

Robby (09:40):
So you went chippy, turned builder, which is what
most people more than halfbuilders.

George (09:46):
I think it's the most common route I'd say it would be
.
Most of them are going to becarpentry based, because with
carpentry it's almost like anall-round skill.
You need to know, you learn thestructure, but you'll learn the
foundations of the design andyou're sort of involved from
that process.

Guest (10:05):
Well, I guess the chippies are on this job most of
the time.

George (10:08):
Yeah, they're there from almost start to finish.
They'll see the services tradesgo through.
They see a whole range ofthings happen throughout their
process of being on site, so youtend to pick up a fair bit of
it along the way, what do youwish you knew?

Robby (10:24):
or what would you tell someone who's a chippy now who
wants to turn into a builder,like someone who's a chippy now
and they want to become abuilder and they want to become
licensed what do you wish youknew when you were in that
position?
Now that you've gone throughthe whole experience you've gone
through yeah, good question.

Guest (10:39):
So to clarify an apprentice or a no?
No, like so, chippy.

Robby (10:42):
Verify an apprentice or a….
No, no, like so.
Two people who've been doing itfor you know five years so
qualified, say they're applyingfor their building license.
They're looking at becoming abuilder, or they are working
with a team.
They've got their own team andthey want to take that next step
.

Guest (10:56):
Find just to be honest about their weak spots would be
if you know, I know my strengthsand I also know my weaknesses,
and it took me a while toidentify the weaknesses which
you could fast track that if youcould find someone like a
mentor, so someone who wants tobe a carpenter to answer your
question, find someone who hasgone through that process and go

(11:19):
exactly, ask that question,what would you do better?
I would identify what you know,like I.
I did a business course becauseI knew nothing about it, in
conjunction with certificatefour, because I I wanted to
learn everything, because itannoyed me when I didn't know
the answers to things andtherefore, if you don't know,
you don't know what questions toask, rather than hitting

(11:40):
roadblocks all the time.
So if they're a carpenterwanting to be a builder, wanting
to fast track it, find a mentoror do as many programs as you
can on the side Associationslike Master Builders and things.
They have courses but theydon't tick every box.

Robby (11:57):
I don't think there's any one place that ticks every box.

Guest (12:01):
There's a lot of companies that will sell it to
them.
Yeah, builders coursesguaranteed 95% success rate or
whatever, but they still don'thave every answer.
The best person you can find issomeone who has gone through
that.

George (12:13):
Yeah, I completely agree .
I would probably give myselfthe same advice, and I didn't go
through the carpentry route aswell, but I would still.
When I started my business, itwould have been definitely to
seek out that professionalbusiness advice from the
beginning, because I knew how tobuild.
It wasn't a matter of puttingsomething up.
It's easy.
It is the easiest fucking part,isn't it?
It's not the hard part.

(12:34):
The hard part is well, how doyou manage your client, like if
your client just gave you theplans, gave you the money to do
it, like you'd be done in notime.
And it's all the emotion thatcomes in with it.
It's all the other thingsyou've got to handle.
It's contracts, it'ssubcontracts, it's marketing
branding, it's the estimate.

Guest (12:49):
How to hold the people accountable?
Yeah, the liability.
Who does that?
Fall on the timeline?
You know you could make moneybut you could lose to make money
.
But the the hard part is, yeah,managing the books who do you
get when?
What right time?
Yeah, so all that is um plays afactor.

Robby (13:11):
Yes, are you referring to , like allocation of tradies
booked in times?
And now are you, yeah, leadtimes.

Guest (13:16):
You can blow the job out, even if prior to that
estimating the job correctly, if, if that's not a screw that up,
yeah, yeah, haven't allowedenough time.
The if you lose, say, fivegrand on a contractor, uh, it
hurts far more if you lose fiveweeks on the job Because as a
builder you have a certaineligibility of insurance and if

(13:39):
you I think at the start I'm notsure if you're the same George,
but I was so focused on thedollars, making sure that I was
hitting the numbers, making surethat the plumber said he was
going to do it for 12 grand.
His invoice is 12 grand orunder, but the time hurts you
far more because you cannot signanother job until that job's
complete.
So yeah, there is that element.

Robby (14:01):
So you're getting blown out time-wise.
You're saying you can't signanother job?
Yeah, if you don't have enoughassurance to cover that.

George (14:07):
The other thing is it's like it's a very real cost to
the project and to your businesswhen a project is delayed
because you still have to payyour supervisor his 10,000 bucks
a month yeah, that's right.
You still have to pay for thesite shed, you still have to pay
for electricity, like, andyou've only budgeted for 12, but
it goes for 15, that's right,all right, so you might have an

(14:28):
extra 35,000 or 30,000, 50,000worth of delay costs when you
don't finish a job on time.
And that's what people don'toften understand.
They're like oh, you're makingheaps of money.
I said, hang on, you've delayedme by three months and this
costing me a significant amountof money to get this job
finished, correct, they don'tsee it.
No, they don't.
They don't see that.

Guest (14:45):
So you know, these are the sorts of things again, the
processes that you don't control, but they always come up,
that's for sure and that's whatfor sure, that's 100% agree, and

(15:07):
the hard part is we touched onit before managing stress is
that you can get hyper fixatedon those things Jesus job's
killing me and and turn a blindeye to things that actually
matter.
Yeah, and that's what thestress consumes you, and it's
very easily done because there'sa lot of moving parts in every,

(15:27):
every job.
Often you'll run multiple jobsat once multiple clients,
multiple trades, weather, allthese things come into it and it
can hurt you more if you gethyper fixated and you've got to
really pull yourself back,sending yourself to what
actually matters in life.

George (15:47):
So we've spoken a bit about problems.
What are some of the winsyou've had along the way?

Guest (15:53):
Wins in building.
Yeah, just in building andbuilding.

George (15:57):
What are some things that you're, you know, a bit of
a fist pump moment for yourself.

Guest (16:03):
Oh, I've got a great family.
You know, great young familyand that's as I look at now.
Some people struggle to havefamilies and I really count
myself lucky to have.
I've got three beautiful kidsand, yeah, brother, sister, my
parents.
You know, I've got threebeautiful kids.
Yeah, yeah, brother, sister, myparents.
I've really got a great familythat's around me Awesome, yeah.

George (16:21):
I'm grateful for that every day, love it and then okay
.
So what about in your business?
Have you had some fist pumpmoments there too?

Guest (16:27):
Yeah, for sure.
There's always times like Isaid.
You know, when I startedwinning a $200,000 job, I
thought I'd made it.
That's it.
I'm rich, this is awesome.
Not getting any better thanthis.
Yeah, that's it, that's it,you've won, whereas years down
the track you'd think twiceabout that.

George (16:49):
Yeah, now you don't get out of bed for $200,000.

Guest (16:53):
Not like that.
It's just, yeah, the businessgrows and then it becomes too
expensive to do a small job likethat, as you know.
But no, the business.
I'm really proud of thebusiness.
It's come a long way.
It's evolved.
Every day we're trying to adaptsystems and processes and
things are still never runningsmoothly.
We're like, right, we need asystem for that, and just feel

(17:14):
like we're getting better andbetter all the time.
Um, I've had some big changesrecently, um big hurdles that
we've accomplished.
So together, as a company, it'sum, I'm proud of where we're at
and where we're headingexcellent, that's great do you
want to talk a little bit aboutwhat you guys uh specialize in?

Robby (17:32):
because, uh, we work for full disclosure and prior to us
working together, I didn't knowwhat.
Well, actually, prior tomeeting you once I met you I
kind of got my head around it,but prior to meeting you, I'd
never heard of Passive Homes.
Do you want to tell everyonelistening a little bit about
what Passive Home is, for thosewho haven't heard of it before?

Guest (17:53):
Yeah, so we specialize in high-performance passive house
construction.
Marketing, as you know, istricky because, yeah, many
people haven't heard of apassive house.
So what do you put on yourbanner?
Is it high-performance customhomes?
Because people resonate withthat.
So a passive home is basicallya high-performing home which

(18:16):
accounts for all the.
There's five elements to it.
There's thermal insulationYou've got to make sure your
building envelope is tight.
Your high-performance windows.
You can't just use any style ofwindow.
That has to be a certifiedwindow from certain
manufacturers.
It has to have air tightnesslayer.

Robby (18:34):
When you say certain window manufacturers, are they
like?
Do they become credited?

Guest (18:40):
No, they just have to perform, so they have to be
airtight.

Robby (18:43):
It depends Economically like they have to be
weatherproof.

Guest (18:48):
No, they have to be like thermal bridge free.
Thermal bridge free, okay, soyou can't put an aluminium
window in because it's going toheat up through the frame and
it's going to transfer the heatfrom the outside of the frame,
when the sun heats it, into thebuilding.

Robby (19:00):
So thermal bridge free means no transfer of any
temperature, correct, okay.

Guest (19:07):
There you go.
That's one of the elements.
So same thing as if you have afancy high architectural house
that's got structural steelspanning from the inside of the
home outside.
That's a thermal bridge.
So you can't have that becauseobviously the sun would heat
that and cool it and ittransfers through and it will
create a dew point, or socorrect me if I'm wrong it's

(19:27):
more expensive to build apassive home than it would be a
standard home.
Yes, it is About between 15 and30% more expensive up front.

George (19:35):
Here I am.
I'm interested in a passivehome.
What, 20%, 30%?
What's wrong with you?
Why would you tell someone?

Guest (19:44):
to build a passive home.
The comfort is the first point.
You'll have a 2 degreetemperature difference from your
toes to your ceiling, so mosthomes may have a 10 degree
difference there.
You have no draft from toe toceiling, 10 degrees, two degrees
, and most times would be, itwould be could be 10.

Robby (20:00):
Yeah, that's, that's a lot imagine that down here it's
30, but up there 20 yeah, that'shuge.

Guest (20:07):
Or other way around, be hotter up on the ceiling, but
yes, oh yeah, sorry, heat rises,I'm picking up marketing yeah,
but yeah.
So the, the comfort, the noise.
You get no noise, no dust.
You got clean, filtered, freshair.
So if someone, it becomesattractive.
If someone in your family issuffering from, say, hay fever
or anything like that, itfilters the air.

(20:29):
So I've heard I don't sufferfrom hay fever, but some people
would have it that I don'tsuffer from hay fever but some
people would have it thatextremely bad day on hay fever,
whatever grass is blowing aroundand then within 10 minutes of
them being home in their passivehouse, it's gone.
So there's that, and also thepollutants, the smoke.
All that stuff gets filteredthrough.

George (20:50):
Yeah, so is there a balance at some stage?
So say, if you're building apassive home, they're generally
energy efficient.
Is that effectively what you'regoing for?
Yes, so is there elements thatyou get to five years down the
track and the extra 30% thatyou've invested in the house has
paid itself back yet?
Yes, definitely, or like, isthere a time?

Guest (21:09):
How do you because people look at that this is a great
question and I've been trying toget a metric for this.
Yeah, so you've got to have abefore and after, ideally.
So an ideal, I guess analysiswould be on an existing leaky
home which would have averageAustralian home would have 30

(21:30):
air changes per hour and apassive house you'd want it at
one air change per hour, okay.
Or if a passive a new buildwill be 0.6 air changes per hour
.

Robby (21:41):
Air change is a change in temperature.

Guest (21:43):
No, the air changing in the room per hour.

Robby (21:47):
Oh, like in and out.

Guest (21:48):
Yes, oh, okay, yeah, yeah yeah, so basically to give you
an example on the average sizepassive home would have, the
amount of gaps combinedthroughout the whole house would
be basically a credit card sizecombined amount of combined
gaps throughout the home.

George (22:03):
So there's quite a fair bit of work that needs to go
into it.
Yeah, in order to make italmost airtight.

Guest (22:09):
Yeah, All your services that penetrate the building, all
the wires, all the plumbing,everything the floor.

George (22:14):
Even like when you're wrapping the building, say in
insulation and putting yourwindows in, I imagine any gaps
between your frames and all thatsort of stuff.
They've got to be sealed.

Guest (22:22):
Yeah, we pressure test it with a blower door test on a
positive and negative pressureat 50 pascals of pressure.

George (22:29):
So that's a fan that we replace, and what point do you
do the test before plaster?

Guest (22:34):
Yeah, multiple tests.
So we'll do it Once we do theexternal wraps.
We wrap the roof and the wallsand the floor if needed, Depends
what floor system, if it's aslab or on a subfloor and then
we will put a blower door inthere to test the external wraps
.
And it'll leak at this stage,but we can identify it.
If there's any gaps at thatstage, Then we put the windows

(23:02):
in, we test it again and then wewill do the rough it all in,
put the insulation, do the airtightness test, test it again
after the air tightness layer ison, and then that's when it
should perform really well.
And then, once it's allplastered and finished, at
handover we'll test it again.

George (23:13):
Yeah, there you go.
So it's not just a matter ofputting in better insulation or
putting solar or putting arainwater tank and then you go
oh, I've got an energy efficienthome.

Guest (23:24):
Yeah, there's a saying here.
The energy standard we have isa Nathas rating.
We have a seven star is theminimum pushing to 10 star.
A passive house, a basicpassive house, will blow a 10,
12 star Nathas rating house outof the water.
Yeah, there you go, no problem.
Yeah, so the you know a watertank to flush your toilets

(23:45):
contributes to the energy ratinghere.
It's got nothing to do with theenergy rating.
Yeah, that's right.
So, yeah, they perform reallywell.
Every house we've built.
The clients just love it.

Robby (23:58):
All right.
So if you use a rainwater tankto flush your toilets, that
contributes to the energy rating, correct, but it doesn't change
how much energy you use at all.

Guest (24:06):
No what.

Robby (24:08):
So why does it contribute to the?

George (24:11):
It's on the metric, I don't know, it's from a level of
resourcefulness for thedwelling.
Back in the day, this is goingback many years.
If you put a rainwater tank inyour property, the council would
fine you.
I do remember this.
They would fine you.
It's like what are you doing?
Putting still water, cappingour water?

(24:31):
Yeah, exactly, still water.
It's like it's pollute, it'sstill water, it's just sitting
there, it's stagnant, it breedsdisease, all this sort of stuff.
You can't have that, whereasnow it's like you build a new
house.
You can't build a new housewithout a rainwater tank.
And the reason they do likeon-site water detention and
rainwater tanks is so they don'thave to upgrade their service

(24:52):
coming into the house.
Upgrade their service cominginto the house so they don't
have to put new pipes in thestreets.
No, no, you keep the water onyour site, so we don't have to
upgrade our shit.
Yeah, and make the client payfor it?
Yeah, exactly right.
If they do have to, they makesure someone pays for it, but if
you crack the footpath.

Guest (25:05):
You're going to pay for it.

George (25:05):
The bill, absolutely so, yeah, it would contribute the
using less water and you'reretaining the water on site.
If you're using it to flushtoilets, it will contribute to
energy overall, but as a metricit probably doesn't.

Guest (25:18):
No, so yeah, so you can't have certain things in passive
homes.
Lighting is important, but onaverage, home lighting
contributes to your energy billmaybe 20%, so it's not a huge
area.
It's what appliances you'rerunning, how many kilowatts per
hour per room.

Robby (25:35):
Light makes 20% of your bill.

Guest (25:37):
Not even be less than.

George (25:39):
What, if you like, turn the neon sign off?
No only leave the neon sign on17 beer fridges you got running
here.
Robbie, I wish what were yousaying.
Oh, so let's just say I want apassive home, but I also want to
watch my 90-inch plasma TV thatsucks the life out of the

(26:01):
electricity grid.
Do you know what I mean?
Yes, can you have that?

Guest (26:04):
too, Of course.
Well, you have offset.
There's passive house plus.
There's passive house plus plus, which basically means it
doesn't use any energy and itmakes more energy than it's
using.

Robby (26:18):
Yeah, wow, that's interesting.
So it feeds back to the grid,Feeds back yeah.
So it actually makes you money?
Yeah, because you get paid forwhen you feed the grid.

George (26:25):
Yeah, so much, they don't they give you nothing, it
sends them the dollar, Fuck all.

Guest (26:29):
Yeah.
Two parts of nothing now.
Oh, now has it dropped downmore, has it.

George (26:34):
It's ridiculous.
It's not even worth it.

Guest (26:36):
When I built my first house in Healesville many years
ago, I got it locked in at 66cents.
66 cents, wow.
They would buy it off me for 66cents and then I would buy it
back off them at nighttime for24 cents.
So I was making money just offa simple solar system.

Robby (26:57):
Now I think they will yeah, like six cents.

Guest (27:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they probably buy it off them
for 50 cents.
I don't know what it is now.
They like robbery.

Robby (27:06):
Yeah, yeah, hillsville, they probably didn't have
electricity back then.

Guest (27:10):
Yeah, that's why I had a horse and a car.
They're like a horse and cart.
Yeah, like a horse and cart.

Robby (27:14):
Yeah, what is this man this is amazing On a wheel, yeah
.

George (27:19):
Very good.
So do you need to be accreditedto build a passive house, can I
?

Guest (27:22):
go build one tomorrow.
You can, yes, you can.
It's got to pass a certainstandard.
So you've got another layer.
When do you do it?
If they go for certification,yes, okay, then there is a
certifier.
There's certain people that doit in melbourne and then your
building.
The building has to perform.
It can't just be like this is apassive house.

(27:43):
It has to meet certainstandards and has to perform and
it has to pass.

George (27:46):
I think if you're going to do that.
As a consumer, I would want toget it certified.
I'm going to go to the expenseof spending an extra 30 on the
build which is quite a bit ofmoney.
It's a million dollar home.
That's $300,000.
Yeah, all right.
So if you're going to go tothat extent, I'd be like, no,
like, certify this.
I want to make sure that mybuilder has complied with what
needs to be required to build apassive home.
So, yeah, I would be inclinedto do that.

(28:09):
Can you be certified yourselfto?

Guest (28:12):
test it.
Yeah, certified yourself totest it.
Yeah, I'm certified.

George (28:14):
So can you certify your?

Guest (28:15):
own.
No, oh, so you can't certify.
So who does that?
It's an external company.
So, you can't say I go andbecome that, I guess.
So you have to go to Germanyand study it a bit.
Been to Germany before.

Robby (28:27):
There you go Easy.

Guest (28:32):
We'll just stop that on the way to Vegas.
So it's a German product.

Robby (28:34):
It comes from germany, from europe, yeah, yeah, okay,
so they've been doing it for 100years.

Guest (28:39):
This is is that because of?
Extreme temperatures andchanges and shit like that over
there yeah, so we cannot buildthis australian standard of home
over there.
You'd freeze to death.
Yeah, so where they get umtemperature fluctuations of 50
degrees, you know might be minus30 and then they got positive
20.
So this is their standard ofbuilding.

(29:02):
Yeah, where this is passivehouse in Australia exceeds the
standard that makes sense.
I think we have a pretty goodstandard here, like that would
be the general consumers, yeahbut we've got a pretty average
climate when you talk abouttemperature, other than what's
happening in Queensland at themoment, and the high
temperatures we get in Melbourneare obviously 40 plus, but they

(29:24):
are far in between, whereas inEurope I guess they get those
minus days where you wouldliterally freeze to death.

Robby (29:29):
Yeah literally.

Guest (29:32):
But the temperature in a passive home will stay between
20, 22 degrees all year round,yeah, so we don't need big
thumping air conditioners tocool the thing, so it will stay
at that ambient temperature justbecause of the building
envelope, the windows being used, the thermal bridge free design
yeah, hrv runs 24-7, which runsa heat recovery ventilation

(29:54):
system which gives the freshfiltered air 24-7, which runs a
heat recovery ventilation systemwhich gives the fresh filtered
air 24-7.

George (29:59):
Yeah, so you never need to open up a window.
No, you never let people go.

Guest (30:02):
You make it airtight.
I can't breathe in here.
It's not like that.
You can obviously open up thewindows and get some polluted
air from outside and bring it inand ruin your rating.

Robby (30:13):
How much does it cost to get certified?

Guest (30:17):
I've never had one certified.
Oh, so you've never done itexternally?
No, never.
No, because the clients don'twant to pay for it.

George (30:22):
It's a cost.
So how much is it?
I mean, how long is a piece ofstring, but what's it going to
cost to get it?

Guest (30:28):
You just built my home.

George (30:28):
I want it certified.

Guest (30:30):
Yeah, it's not you, not.
You have to get it done andtested throughout the process,
so it'll have to be decidedprior, whereas so you have to
work off a different set ofdrawings.
Obviously we work ofarchitectures, uh, engineering,
and we refer to the soil reportand the energy report.
Yeah, passive house will have aanother layer of drawings which
is calculated through asoftware called phpp, which is

(30:52):
passive house planning package,which that spits out how you're
going to do it, the wallconstructs everything, and then
the certifier will inspect theproject at these various stages
of the job and then, obviously,at the final result.
Yeah, give you a little plaqueon the house, but in theory,
once Passive House becomes morepopular, these homes will become

(31:12):
more valuable.
Yeah, so, to answer yourquestion, I'd say it costs an
additional $10,000 to $12,000,maybe more.
Don't quote me on that.

Robby (31:20):
Okay, that's not too bad, because, yeah, the overall
thing, I would do it.

George (31:23):
Again, if I'm spending 10%, to spend $10,000, $12,000
on getting this certified.

Robby (31:27):
Yeah, even if it's $20,000.

George (31:28):
Because even from a perspective value say I keep the
home for five years that 30%pays for itself for 10 years.
Imagine when you go to sell it.
Yeah, you can sell it and saythis is a certified passive home
.
It's not a passive home becauseI said it was or because I
spent a bit of extra money.
You've actually got anindependent person saying that
this has been this part.

(31:49):
This ticks all the boxes.

Guest (31:50):
Yeah, I think.
I think just being devil'sadvocate here is that the
clients know that you're goingto do a good job, it's going to
pass the test, it's going toexceed the standard already, so
they may not go.
They go.
What am I paying thatadditional thousands of dollars
for?
I'm going to live in the sameresult.

(32:10):
They don't care about the fancyplaque or the accreditation.

George (32:13):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, I guess as well.
Yeah, do, yeah, yeah, thatmakes sense, I guess as well.
If you were building your ownhome today, would it be a
passive home?

Guest (32:21):
Yes, Definitely, definitely, as the more and more
I learn.

George (32:29):
I've just finished a large renovation of my house,
and then I started buildingpassive homes and I was like, oh
, now I want to put my housedown.
If I knew, yeah, if only I knewyes, yeah, it makes Sorry you,
yes, yeah, it makes you justhave to do another one.

Guest (32:36):
Yeah, just, it just makes sense.

George (32:37):
You know, I was sick of doing shitty leaky extensions,
that that you just do it justenough but can you make it
passive from an extension, likeif you only do the extended part
is passive, because then theother rest of the house wouldn't
perform?

Robby (32:51):
correct, we can have passive elements.
Yeah, yes, that's right, if youwant to make the extension.

Guest (32:57):
uh, you want to make the extension just passive house?
Then you can create an airlockor whatever.
Okay, obviously, the existinghome is going to let the new
part down.
We've done a few of them.
We've finished, one inBlackburn and one in Hawthorne.
Yes, interesting.

George (33:11):
Is there any constraints with it?
So could you like, from anarchitectural point of view,
could you design something thatlooks amazing externally?
But then you're like, fuck, Ican't make this a passive home
anymore.
Is there constraints to it?
Yes, there is.
With types of external claddingthat you might use, does it
come down to that extent?
Yes, how are you going to getthat watertight?

Guest (33:27):
or airtight yeah.

George (33:28):
I mean, let's just say, metal to a timber, like if
you're using a metal facade onsomething.
It generate a lot more heat andtransfers.

Guest (33:36):
There's always ways that you can go about it, and that
just creates that constantinvolvement.
We have a pre-constructionprocess that we call our PAC
process.
The clients will pay us as aconsultant to read over and look
over all the details of theplans prior to construction and
we'll put it into software whichwill help us.
Now, you won't identifyeverything.

(33:57):
There's some things you dodiscover during construction.
Elements such as yeah, if we'vegot steel columns, that we
don't have enough insulation tostop that thermal bridging, or
we can't fix the window to thatsection, or location of the
window is important in a passivehome.

George (34:14):
Yeah, like the orientation of it.

Guest (34:17):
No, where it sits in the wall makeup okay yeah, so that
that your most of the timethey're triple glazed.
It can be double, but where thethe your insulation sits inside
your wall cavity.
On a standard home it's similarto a passive house and you can
have external insulation, butthat insulation needs to be
continuous through in line withthe window.

(34:38):
If the window sits out too far,there's a bridge between where
the glass sits and theinsulation sits, and that will
create a thermal bridge.
So there's all these finerdetails that need to be thought
about prior and duringconstruction.

George (34:51):
What about?
Is there certain things thatyou would recommend, like, do
you look at substitutingmaterials?
Yep, so say, you'd use a timberframe instead of a, or a
like-age steel frame.
Do you ever look at stuff likethat too?

Guest (35:05):
Yeah, definitely Does that contribute to having a
passive home.
Steel's bad because it's aconductor.
It's heat transfers throughsteel a lot quicker than timber.

Robby (35:15):
Is that because you're a chibi?

Guest (35:17):
Yeah, I'm a bit biased.
I like my wood, robbie, it'stimber, not wood.
Yes, that's right.
Where's wood go?

Robby (35:23):
Where.

Guest (35:24):
In the fire.

Robby (35:26):
In the fire.
Okay, is that?

Guest (35:29):
a chibi joke.
My kids know it backwards.

George (35:31):
Oh, do they Shut up?

Guest (35:33):
Dave, very good, yeah, there is.
So I recently had an examplewhere we're building a house at
the moment, we've got sipspanels.
It's a structural insulatedpanel.
It's a pre-made panel which isa high density core of xps foam
with osb board on the outsideand the inside, and that itself
is airtight, so you don't needto do the inside air air
tightness layer, and then thefloor below is a is yellow

(35:57):
tongue, which which forms airtightness layer as well yeah
right.
Um, now that's a very expensiveproduct, um, for shipping costs
and everything.
There's a manufacturer here aswell, but it just it's very
expensive to build and install.
So a constitution of that is tocreate the same performance of
that panel in a conventionalstud frame, so a 90 mil.

(36:18):
You'll never get it.
So you upsize those studs to a140 or even a 190, some cases
240, and you put a high densityinsulation in that and that wall
makeup will perform the sameand cost offset is yeah yeah,
interesting so you kind of hackthe system in a way of like

(36:41):
you're getting the same resultin a different way yeah, yeah,
it's.
It's all what they, what theclient's budget is like any
build budget is important andwhat they're wanting to achieve.

Robby (36:52):
So yeah, so the thing you just explained half of it
sounded like a differentlanguage to me.
But the thing you justexplained, half of it sounded
like a different language to me.
But the thing you justexplained.
Do you get the same result?
Yes, for less cost.
Yes, so why would you do it theother?

Guest (37:03):
way Would offset.
Why would you?
Because the Sips is a premiumproduct.
It is a better is a betterproduct.

Robby (37:10):
But what's the so?
Like?
Is there a you long run?
It won't last, or you know whatI mean.
Like what's the downside?
Like, okay, we can go thischeaper way and we're going to
get the same result but Well,you could get a high-performing
wall with less room.

Guest (37:25):
So if you've got a tight site, say you've got a property
in Hawthorne and you're sixmeters from boundary to boundary
a SIPs build would be better.
You're going to get a highperforming wall with a smaller
space and I guess on a site likethat, 100mm is a big difference
, right?
So, whereas to get that sameperformance out of a

(37:46):
conventional frame, you mightlose that distance.
That could be an option.
Also, access time of build,time a year, all those sort of
things, all those factors.

Robby (37:56):
So there's things to factor in.

Guest (37:57):
Yeah, for sure.

Robby (37:58):
Yeah.

George (37:59):
How many people in your team now?

Guest (38:02):
Hmm, this is a five on site.
Yeah, and then there is five inthe office.
Nice, are you still on thetools?
I'm like a Mr Fix it, fixeverything.
I like to be on this.
I like going to site, I likebeing on the tools, but it's not
my, I need to be elsewhere.
If I spend too much on site,the stuff in the office backs up

(38:24):
.

George (38:25):
Yeah, absolutely.

Guest (38:26):
Yeah, so I do a bit of everything.
I do the sales, which I kind ofenjoy.
I like the chase of the sales.
I'm actually doing a pitch in ajob.
It's a high value job at themoment and he, the client, does
procurement.
That's what he does, so heteaches people how to buy, so
he's a challenge yeah, right,yeah, he's like I know I see

(38:47):
what you did there, tom.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
So he's fun in the in the, whenI'm pitching the quote to him
and he's trying to obviously cutme down on price.
It's a good laugh.

George (38:58):
Yeah.

Robby (39:00):
Yeah, I got a question If you couldn't work in the
construction industry.
So they said Tom, that's it,we're banning you from
construction.
You can't go on site, you can'tgo to commercials, you can't do
anything, you're not allowed tobe a chippy, nothing.
What would you go and dotomorrow?
That's a good question For aliving, not for fun.

(39:20):
What would you go and do for aliving?

Guest (39:22):
I would want to be a game ranger in Africa.
What's that?
Just go like shooting stuff.
No, that's the opposite of that.
Teaching people to track theanimals, shooting hunters yeah,
yes, yeah, shooting that is theopposite.

Robby (39:37):
Shooting hunters yeah, yes, yeah, that is the opposite,
complete opposite Shootinganimals shooting the hunters?

Guest (39:42):
That's right.
Shooting the hunters?
Yes, no, I'd love to.
I've always liked the idea ofliving on a game reserve in
Africa and getting to know theanimals and learning how to
track them and things like thatyou could probably do that at
Werribee Zoo though, mate.

George (39:58):
Yeah, it's not the same, not the same, I feel at home.

Guest (40:02):
I was obviously born in South Africa, as you know, and I
I I feel at home.
Yeah, nice, maybe it's becauseI'm so far away from the
problems in the job.
So yeah, get some peace.
Can't come back and fixanything, so, rather than a
holiday, have a beer.

George (40:19):
Excellent.

Robby (40:20):
That answers that.

Guest (40:21):
Yeah.

Robby (40:22):
If anyone wants to connect with you or find you or
learn more about Passive Houses,where should they go?

Guest (40:30):
Yeah.

Robby (40:31):
This is your job, Robbie.
I'm setting it up.
I just lobbed it up for you toknock it out of the park.
Yeah.

Guest (40:37):
We've got a park.
Yeah, we've got a website.
We've got a website.

Robby (40:41):
It's great yeah hopefully you can work out what it is
figure it out and work it outwhat's the website.

Guest (40:48):
you can follow me on coysconstructionscomau.
And yeah, my name's Tom andcall me.

Robby (40:55):
Can I follow you on Instagram or anything?

Guest (40:56):
Yes, Instagram Facebook.
I don't know.
Is that what?

Robby (40:58):
people say, follow your journey.
Yeah, I'm asking whether, if Iwant to follow the Tom Coy
journey, I'm like passing.

Guest (41:02):
Where do I do it?
Do people say like, what do youdo?
They don't say their Instagramthing.

Robby (41:06):
You say like, what's your Instagram handle at Kois
Constructions?
There you go, we'll give youthe plug here
Koisconstructionscomau.
They're on Facebook, instagramand LinkedIn.
See, that sounds much better.
Yes, I do.
I do this a lot, just a coupleof times.

George (41:25):
See, that sounds better than not.
I don't even get numbers frompeople anymore, Just say hey,
what's your Instagram handle?

Robby (41:30):
Do you really?

Guest (41:40):
Is that a thing I'm?

George (41:40):
too old school for that.
I hear the young folks they askthe girls what's your Instagram
?
How do you even remember that?
Yeah, just ask for their number.
Yeah, might be easier.
I don't get it.
Playing a different game Timeshave changed.
Playing a different game what'snext?
Where do you see Koi'sconstruction in the next five
years?

Guest (41:57):
Where do you see Koi's construction in the next five
years?
Yeah, look, I love.
My big scary goal was to buildthe company up to be big enough
that I could take the whole teamover and build a village in
Africa.
That was my big scary dream.
The, how, the what, the whenwas not decided, uh, but the,

(42:21):
the, the dream was there andthat was our focus.
So you know and the drivebehind that was similar what I
touched on before when, whenyou're on your deathbed, you got
nothing more to give.
You're not going to say I, Iwas a builder for x amount of
years and I built 300 homes.
Who cares?
You know, it's not the, it'snot my driver.
It's to say, hey, I was abuilder, but we did this.
This is pretty cool.

Robby (42:42):
Well, you've done that a few times.
You did a project in SouthAfrica.
Yes, yeah.
And you did a project in Tassie.

George (42:48):
Yes, yeah, it's a little bit different.
Was the T job?

Robby (42:52):
No, I built one when my parents oh sorry, I missed the
charity part I just heard goingoverseas and doing stuff and I
was like you've done that, yeah.

George (43:00):
Tassie job is a hard one .
I do remember when you wereflying down there, you were
flying the team down there aswell, the team, the truck.

Robby (43:05):
He took the timber like that.

Guest (43:07):
What they don't have steel in Tassie.
They barely got electricity.
Are you serious?
Yeah, they must have.
Tom must have borrowed yourhorse and cart, the windows, the
posies, the trusses, the LVR,all that freighted over there

(43:28):
from Melbourne.
You're kidding, they don't doany of that.
No, fuck there's no, there wassuch a backlog.
They had two years delay,you're kidding me.

George (43:36):
How could you possibly function as a state?
And if we've?

Robby (43:40):
learned anything, it's that time delays cost more than
that's right.

Guest (43:43):
There you go, not waiting two years for posies.
So yeah, it was a killer.
But there's only a couple oftrust plans, so that, yeah, it
was just all backlogged, butanyway, yeah, that's the dream.

George (43:59):
So to do that still, but some personal circumstances,
you know that's um halted, thatwe'll put a delay on that
currently, but um, we'll getthere.
That's it, mate.
As long as the eyes on the eyeson the prize, that's right
that's right.
You gotta work towards somethingrather than yeah, and like, at
the end of the day, you just useyour setbacks as an opportunity
to grow and become betterperson and version of yourself.
Like everyone's gonna have them.
Yeah, you're always gonna getit.
Like there's to be a time inyour life and everyone's life

(44:20):
where it's going to be fuckinghard and you're going to
probably hit rock bottom.
Yeah, you know at some stage.
Yeah, and you know from whatI've seen over the years with
everyone that's ever gonethrough a difficult time, the
ones that have used it as alesson and really grown from it
come back 10 times better.
They come back 10 times abetter human being than what the

(44:44):
initial adversity of thesituation was.
Yeah, and I think that's reallyimportant.
I reckon it's man, it's almosta prerequisite.

Guest (44:54):
What do you?

Robby (44:54):
think about that.

George (44:55):
Do you think it's almost a prerequisite to go through
some really difficult shit inorder for you to have a good
level of?

Guest (45:01):
success.
I think so because it gives youperspective and it touches on
what's important, what's not asbad as, or it's not as good as,
this.
That's right.
You think that's bad Shouldhave said this?
Yeah, that's nothing.

George (45:18):
Yeah Well, we've said this at events and stuff like
Gary Vaynerchuk is massive onthat.
It's like you know how do youdeal with all the stresses of
employing 1300 people, of doingthis, of you know, when you lose
money, when you lose a deal,when you break your leg, he goes
.
I compare it and I go.
Well, these are the top 10closest people to me on the
planet.
Are any of them dying right now?

(45:39):
Or do I have news that they'redead?
No, then that's not a fuckingissue and that's how he looks at
it.
Now, that's quite extremeexample.
I get that, but he still hasthat mindset and I think it's a
really good way to at leastground yourself and say cool,
this is my problem, but that's areal problem, it's not that bad
.
It's not that bad.
That's not that bad.
You can manage this it'sannoying, absolutely.
It's not to say it's notdifficult.

(46:01):
It's not to say that it's notupsetting, but it's still a way
and a tool that you could lookback and go all right.
Not this, this isn't going tostop me, it's just going to put
me back a bit that's right andit's.

Guest (46:11):
It's important to reframe things as well, as there's
reframing it to make it soundlike it's better, and there's
also is reframing it to make itsound like it's better, and
there's also actually dealingwith the problem, and there's so
many moving parts as, I guess,anyone's business that it can
shift your focus and it'simpossible to not think about it
.
But you've got to try andcompartmentalize it, push it to
the side a bit so you can focusand keep carrying on with your

(46:33):
day, where some people throw thetoys out the cot, kick their
legs up and go poor me, poor me,poor me You're not going to get
anywhere.
You can be that person for along time and you'll be put in
that box, but if you just go,that sucks.
Get on with it.
Yeah, move on.
And yeah, like you said, whatcan you learn from it?
If it doesn't break you, itmakes you stronger.

George (46:53):
Yeah, and then there's an opportunity there for you as
well to pass that knowledge on.
Then, effectively, you becomethat mentor through your
experience.
That's what a mentor is.
It's just someone that's goneand done the things that you
haven't experienced yet.
Most of the time they'rehardships.
Hey, don't do this, I've doneit, it's fucked.
Then you're like oh wow, thanksfor letting me know, because I

(47:13):
didn't know that You've justsaved me a year's worth of
heartache, or you've saved me$300,000, or you've saved me
from committing to thisrelationship with this person,
with that consultant, with thatsubbie, with that whatever.

Guest (47:29):
Well, it's funny.
You say that it's like that'swhat everyone's after.
That's why people pay mentorsand business coaches, and that
because they're looking for asilver bullet 're looking for a
quick win.
How can they fast track it toget to the next stage quicker,
because they know everyone'stime is running out yeah as
eventually you're, you're gonnareach the time where you go.
Well, that's it can't workanymore, some people will.

George (47:50):
Some people also get in their own way.
They're like what pay 50 grandfor that, fuck off yeah it's.
Is that all?
Is that all?
I have to pay?
Yeah, Do you know?
What I mean yeah yeah, it's howyou're fast-tracking your
position from A to B at the endof the day, and that's where
I've always looked at it, withmentorship and advisors and
anyone that's in my life Likehow are you going to help me get

(48:11):
from A to B?

Guest (48:20):
What need to invest, like where, where's that point?
Yeah, of intersection, yeah, I,yeah, couldn't agree more.
What I've been struggling withlately is that especially what's
been happening in my personallife is that you get compared to
all the time, and then I guessthe same thing could be spoken
about in in any industry you cancompared to this you're meant
to be like.
This Says who compared to what?

George (48:39):
Well, comparison is one of the quickest way to sap the
energy and happiness out of yourlife, do you?

Robby (48:44):
know what I mean.
Comparison is the thief of joy.

George (48:45):
Oh, there you go.
That's the saying I was lookingfor.
He had it there, but he's justleaving me fucking hanging and
making shit up.

Robby (48:54):
I was like this is going to be sick.
There's got, this is going tobe sick.
I can't wait.
This is my opportunity, my timeto show.
I'm going to eat.
This is ready, I'll fuckingshow him, yeah, but yeah, what
was it again?
Say it again no, I can't, youcan't, it's the ants.
Only Comparison is the thief ofall joy, joy, joy, not all joy.

George (49:10):
Not all, just some but it's so true.

Guest (49:15):
You know, I think people's personalities make a
big difference, and no one evertalks about that.
Everyone compares to you, knowyour style, the way you
communicate, or or your lovelanguage, or put you in a box.

George (49:27):
Yeah, that's what you are, that's how you should be.

Guest (49:29):
Personality is the driver of how they communicate what
matters to them, morals, allthat sort of stuff Values, um,
what matters to them, morals,all that sort of stuff Values,
yeah, values is very important,yeah.
And um, yeah, how they werebrought up and how they see
things is is very important onthe outcomes and the way they
see it compared to other people.
So it's just hard.

George (49:51):
Yeah, so you have a crew of 10 people.
Now Do you find it difficult tobe connected with everyone's
values and communicate the waythat they like to be
communicated to?
How do you manage that processin your business?

Guest (50:02):
Yeah, look, I don't find it difficult to answer the
question.
I'm an open book.
I say it how it is.
I call a spade a spade, so theycan read me like an open book.
Yeah, so they know-.

George (50:13):
They know what to expect from you.

Guest (50:18):
That's right.
So they know that I'm open andhonest.
I always say to them familiesfirst.
So if they have any problemwith their kids at home or
personal things going on, I say,don't worry, sort that out
first, because I know from myown experience that stuff will
consume you.
So if you're not going to forcethem to come into work while
they know they've got theirproblem, they're not going to
concentrate, they're going to dotheir work.
Take a day off, yeah, then comeback.

(50:38):
That's it.
Bigger problems, right?
Yeah absolutely Absolutely.

Robby (50:45):
So, yeah, I think yeah, love it Very good.
Well, Tom, thanks for takingtime out of your day to come
over and chat with us.
You're welcome, mate.

George (50:52):
Yeah, appreciate it.
Appreciate it, mate, then lookforward to maybe we should do
this again.
You know it's been a whilesince we've caught up, but it'll
be great to catch up even inthe next 12 months' time and you
actually come up in here andsay, hey guys, the trip to South
Africa has been booked, takingthe crew up and away we go.
I love it.
This is the spot, that's it.
That's where the seed wasplanted and where it's grown in

(51:15):
that amount of time.
So, yeah, thanks, mate,appreciate you coming down, as
always.
We love bringing guests on,like yourself, to share your
journey.
So people see the insights,people see that you know there's
a very human element to runninga business as well.
It's not just all the glam ofdriving cars, going on holidays,
buying boats and skis, didn'tyou know?

Robby (51:35):
No, that's all I've been doing.
Is it this whole time?
Fuck, that's what everyonethinks, yeah exactly.

Guest (51:42):
Everyone thinks builders are loaded.
You will last to get paid.
Yeah.

Robby (51:48):
You get to keep all the money at the bottom.

George (51:50):
Let's hope so.
Let's hope so.

Robby (51:52):
If you're good, yeah, yeah.
If you're good at your job,good if you get any job get
there it is a good job, feast orfamine that's it.

George (51:56):
One or the other excellent, all right guys.
Well, you know where to findtom and, as always, you know
where to find us here.
Every single monday, we'll bedropping new episodes, so you
can always tune in and tell yourfriends to subscribe, as well
as, especially, especially, yourmother especially subscribe and
um, a little in in-house jokeyes, that's um no.
Thanks for tuning in.
Guys cannot wait to have a chatto you next week, take care.

Robby (52:19):
Thanks Robbie, thanks everybody.

Guest (52:20):
Cheers, bye.

Robby (52:25):
He doesn't know how to do it, he just does it.
It's just too fast.
See easy work.