March 26, 2025 • 20 mins
How did your hometown survive America’s toughest times? This episode uncovers Milton County’s hidden history, from Civil War struggles to the Great Depression. Jeff DuFresne and Lynn Tinley with The Milton Historical Society are back. The two continue to reveal the untold stories of divided loyalties, economic hardships, and the resilience that shaped Milton’s identity. While many assume North Georgia was fully aligned with the Confederacy, Milton County tells a more complicated story—one of reluctant soldiers, struggling families, and a community forced to adapt.
From the devastation of war to the agricultural collapse brought by drought and the boll weevil, Milton’s residents found ways to endure through ingenuity and sheer determination. The episode also explores how financial hardship led to a controversial merger with Fulton County, a decision that still sparks debate today.
To learn more about the Milton Historical Society, visit their website:
https://www.miltonhistoricalsociety-georgia.org/
With the community in mind, this podcast explores the stories, people, and initiatives that make our community unique. Each episode offers insights into local government, highlights Milton's history and future developments, and showcases the vibrant arts, culture, and sustainability efforts shaping our city. Join the conversation, celebrate our community, and discover how we're building a better Milton together.
Do you have an idea for an episode or would like to request a specific topic to be covered? Email Christy Weeks, christy.weeks@miltonga.gov
Learn more about the City of Milton at www.miltonga.gov.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Milton and Maine, the official podcast for
the city of Milton.
We want to bring you closer tothe heart of our community
through stories that inform,inspire and connect.
Each episode offers abehind-the-scenes look at the
people, projects and prioritiesshaping Milton, covering
everything from local governmentand future development to arts,
culture, sustainability andpublic safety.
(00:26):
Whether you're a resident, alocal business owner or just
curious about our city, this isyour front row seat to what
makes Milton special.
Welcome everyone.
I'm Christy Weeks, thecommunications manager for the
City of Milton, and today I'm soexcited to welcome back Jeff
Dufresne and Lynn Tinley fromthe Milton Historical Society.
Jeff and Lynn, it is so greatto have you with us again.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
The last time we met, we took a look at the key
moments in Georgia's historyfrom about 1752 to 1857-ish,
exploring how Georgia was thelast admission to the original
13 colonies and other keydevelopments that shaped the
foundation of our state.
Today we're going to take alook at Georgia's history from
the Civil War through the GreatDepression.
(01:10):
So my first question ready,Ready, here we go.
How did Milton County and NorthGeorgia fit into the broader
conflict when it comes to theCivil War?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, the first thing that I think is important to
understand is that they didn'treally necessarily agree with
the war.
If you will, this area did notwant to secede from the Union.
In fact, a lot of further, evennorth here didn't want to.
It was really not a plantationeconomy and there were not
enough people to support a wareither, so ultimately it was
nothing but a hardship.
I mean there were not enoughpeople to support a war either,
(01:45):
so ultimately it was nothing buta hardship.
I mean, a war is a hardship foranyone.
But many men had to fight a warthey did not agree with.
They were conscripted, therewas loss of income, you know,
women became widowed and had toraise their children together.
And I think I said we were nota plantation economy, so there
was no benefit to it.
And ultimately, at the end ofthe war, if you had fought for
(02:08):
the Confederacy and were stillalive and wanted to still be a
citizen and participate ingovernment, perhaps you had to
sign an oath of allegiance tothe Union in order to be able to
be guaranteed your citizenship.
Wow, yeah, and so we studiedone for a little bit of a
(02:29):
diversion man who lost a leg inthe Civil War and we have a
letter of his that was writtenthat said I didn't even want to
be in the war.
Why do I have to?
He was not wanting to have tosign that oath of allegiance for
whatever reason, I don't knowwhy.
But he's like I didn't do itvoluntarily.
You're telling me that I didvoluntarily, but I didn't do it
(02:50):
voluntarily because I wasconscripted and if I hadn't I
would have been punished orkilled anyway.
So how can you tell me I haveto sign this thing?
So it was a real hardship onthe area.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, it sounds like it, and so that kind of bleeds
into what life was like for themduring the war.
But you're talking about womenwho are now raising their
children on their own becausetheir husbands are off to war.
Many didn't return, so what wasit like for them?
For those Well, this area.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Didn't actually this area see any battles fought, but
you remember there were.
That's good to know.
Yeah, well, there were battlesfought.
Not very far away though.
Right, the Chattahoochee Riverwas well known to the Union
troops, so they knew what wasgoing on for sure.
Prices of cotton plummeted andthey were being pillaged by the
(03:42):
Union troops.
So even though we didn't fightper se any battles here, they
certainly felt the hardship ofthe war and knew what was going
on, and were impactedeconomically.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Sure, and everybody was up here just trying to
survive in the first place.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Exactly without a lot of able-bodied men.
Yep yep.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So how did the end of the war and the Reconstruction
reshape the economy and dailylife in Milton County?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah, this is an interesting question.
When I first thought about thisI thought, you know, I've never
really read about theReconstruction era.
Here Again, I think some partof it goes back to they were
just trying to survive and liveand that kind of a thing.
Did things out of need, out ofneed exactly, and raise their
(04:30):
children and take care ofeverything.
But some of the things that didhappen politically if you will
were that voting rights wereguaranteed to formerly enslaved
people.
So whereas I kind of get thesense that there was a great
deal of harmony in this areaprior to Civil War and
Reconstruction and that's, I'msure, an over-exaggeration, but
there wasn't the issues that wenormally think of when it comes
(04:53):
to plantation economies theredid develop some tension between
previously enslaved andunenslaved, so eventually these
differences created two.
I don't know how active some ofthe Ku Klux Klan groups were,
but there over the yearsdeveloped tension between the
(05:16):
two groups and again theeconomic recovery was very slow.
The cotton prices, which isreally for that cash economy had
plummeted and the RoswellManufacturing Company had been
stopped production andeverything.
So it was a very slow recovery.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So I'm going to ask this question.
I hope nobody judges me on thisone, but it's just out of
curiosity and it could be veryobvious and I'm not putting my
pieces together.
Explain why In cottonproduction, or were the
(05:52):
locations destroyed overtaken?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, so as far as manufacturing companies, which
is, who was going to really buythe cotton and use the cotton.
Roswell Manufacturing Companywas destroyed.
They had to rebuild some ofthat, but cotton prices not just
in the area, everywhereplummeted so you just couldn't
get the amount of money for thecotton that you used to be able
to get before Markets.
(06:17):
I mean there was a war, sotaking your excess produce to
market would have been difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It was a single economy based on cotton and the
price plummeted.
There were alternatives.
Also, a lot of the freed blackpeople traveled north.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, for sure or.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Saver Haven and then climactic things happened freed
black people traveled north tosave our haven, and then
climactic things happened.
There was a huge, huge drought.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I was wondering how the weather was impacting all of
these like the perfect stormcoming.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And it was a perfect super storm because you had this
critter called a boll weevil.
That totally decimated thecotton industry.
It was a perfect super stormbecause you had this critter
called a bull weevil Right thattotally decimated the cotton
industry.
So farmers to survive, theytried to raise other things like
corn or hogs or whatever, buteverything came to almost a
screeching stop after thatAgrarian economy had stopped.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So I'm not going to say I have never heard of a boll
weevil.
I do not know what it is,Forgive me, Georgia for not
knowing what this is, but I grewup in Colorado and I don't know
what a boll weevil is.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, it's a little black bug.
It looks like a black smallteardrop with little legs and it
just gets into the cottonfibers and it eats away.
It eats it, it'll kill it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And where did they originate from?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Just curious, I'm not sure where they originated from
.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I don't know, stay tuned, I will find out the
journey of the boll weevil.
I'll get back to you on that.
That's interesting, because wasthere any way for the local
farmers to combat it?
Yeah, or was it just so?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
everyone.
In fact, we in this area hadparticularly Broadwell he
believe it or not developed andpatented a boll weevil killing
machine.
I don't know how it worked, butit fascinated me that he did so
.
There was one.
I don't think it was overlyeffective, but basically
Broadwell and Rucker two of thecommon names were more than just
(08:24):
farmers, they were reallyinventors, right, and they were
working, both working hard toperfect the cotton seed.
And by then you have some ofthe universities Auburn, alabama
and then in UGA that areworking with everyone to figure
out a type of cotton that wouldbe boll weevil resistant.
And of course then chemicalscome in and they're developing
(08:46):
pesticides.
So you know, boll weevil washere from, I think, like 1915, I
think is when it really starteduntil like 1990, I think.
I mean it took a long time.
That's a lifetime a long time II've grown a little bit kind of
at home and I didn't think I wasgoing to be able to do it.
Somebody said you have to getthe state to approve it.
But you don't anymore, but youused to have to.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
In fact, you can't buy was it for fear of the boll
weevil absolutely making a?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
reappearance Absolutely, and so the state
would have you monitor.
There's something that willcollect the boll weevils and you
had to tell them if you got aboll weevil, but you don't have
to do that anymore, wow.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Good to know I will not be growing my own cotton
regardless.
If there's anything to knowabout me, I am not somebody who
grows things.
My children did fine Plants,not so much.
Okay, back to history, did thecrisis of the boll weevil and
the challenges with theagricultural community change
(09:47):
what crops were grown in thearea, or did it push people
toward other industries?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yes, one of the industries was chicken chicken
yes yeah, so apparently a lot offarmers switched to chicken, to
yeah, for sure agriculturally.
I think they just steered awayfrom cotton and they grew
produce and went to hogs andcows.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Interesting, still very agricultural Fun fact.
I did recently learn thatGainesville had made eating
fried chicken illegal to use afork, you had to eat it with
your fingers.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Well, I'm not sure what I'll use that one for.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Tune into the Milton PD pd page for weird law
wednesdays you don't have towash as many dishes right?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
no, it was.
Of course.
It was generally in jest and itwas more of a pr stunt than
anything, but I did learn that.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So there you go we didn't really have the the soil
of the content climate fortobacco, if you will which was a
real cash crop just north of us, so we were struggling to find
what could fill the gap.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So tobacco, now that you bring that up, what is that?
Perfect climate?
Does it need to be a littlecolder, or is it?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Cooler slightly different soil type.
That's all I know is probably.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Interesting, and so one more question on that.
I'm kind of asking questionsoff topic here, but tobacco was
grown mostly from where,landmarks, where I would know
Virginia, virginia.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Carolinas.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Okay, all right.
See, this is Christy'seducational series, catching her
up on Georgia history, becauseshe didn't take those classes.
So how did, or did they, didthe government and agricultural
experts respond to help thesestruggling farmers?
Was there any support for them?
(11:53):
It was kind of a figure it outon your own.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You know, on a local level it was really church and
your neighbors.
It was survival.
It was not an organization thatI can remember that got in
there on a grassroots area.
Certainly, the New Deal in 1935, with, as I mentioned, the
minimum wages and better workconditions and child labor laws
(12:20):
and all those helped a greatdeal and they were welcomed and
they were successful over aperiod of time and there was
also a sense of hope, I believeEven during the Depression.
(12:41):
There's a picture of the MiltonCounty Bank and it had a sign
on its door a place of safetyfor your money.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
They went broke.
The thought was there.
They didn't want to.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
They paid all the depositors off in full before
they went out.
So there was a belief in theland and where they were and
we're going to get through this.
Certainly the church and allthat played a part in their
spiritual revival.
So it was bad, it was a test,but clearly, fast forward 150
years it was worth it.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Yeah, and I would say that it was a very close-knit
community.
I keep going back to thesparsely populated but you'll
see, if you do ancestry work onthese people, you'll see how
many of the families wereintermarried together, not
incestuously, but just you seethe names again again.
So it was a tight, tightcommunity and the government
(13:36):
didn't have the kind of aidprograms that we think of today.
So to Jeff's point, it was thecommunity and the belief that
things would get better.
You know it's changed but we'regoing to be fine in faith and
everything.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So that's it.
Yeah, so we've started to talka little bit.
We're starting to get up intothat Great Depression era and we
all know how hard it hit thiscountry.
I mean it was devastating.
What were its effects on MiltonCounty and the surrounding
communities?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Well for Milton County directly, as Jeff
mentioned earlier.
They really couldn't afford tooperate anymore and so,
basically, they merged withFulton County, as did Campbell
County, as Jeff said.
I mean, it was to great benefitfor them.
Ultimately, when you startthinking about public education
and road systems and the lawsfor labor laws and those kinds
(14:33):
of things.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So really that was their solution to survive for
the time being was to merge withFulton County, and you may have
already covered this, soforgive me for asking again, but
what role did the federalprograms, like the New Deal,
play in helping this region torecover?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Infrastructure schools roads.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You just covered all.
I just asked the same questionagain, didn't I?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, it's funny because we don't see the ones
like you do in some other places, but they did absolutely work.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
And even the human aspect not abusing children,
allowing them to go to school,and limited amount that we were
there was abuse and they try tocurb that.
So it was a good thing.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
It was an external force that was carried on the
ground level and it helped setsome boundaries and some
guidelines and some expectationsfor people in a time when they
were lacking guidance.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Sure absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
As we're talking about the merger with Milton
County and Fulton County, wasanybody upset about it?
Or was everybody just at apoint in their life where they
were welcoming that mergerbecause they needed that
infrastructure?
Or was there some holdouts outthere just not happy about that?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
There are people for it and against it.
The people for it wanted morecontrol over the government and
development and preserve sort ofthe bucolic heritage up here.
There are people against itbecause white against black,
rich against poor, becauseCampbell County was was from the
south, we were from the north.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
It would dilute the control of our local environment
Control was a big, big deal.
That's where I was getting,because you have to think that
there had to have been peoplewho were against big government
even then.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Absolutely and, as I said, fulton County is bigger
than three US states.
It's a big territory.
It requires a lot of governanceand control, consensus building
and it was not a homogeneouspopulation.
So, yes, there was tension.
It's a conversation ofreestablishing Milton County now
(16:42):
.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
That's where I'd like you to take this.
Since you opened that door,there are still those occasional
discussions aboutre-establishing Milton County.
So what are the key argumentsfor and against this idea?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Well, I think it's the same arguments that prompted
the formation of the city ofMilton was control over
development.
What is the character of thisplace?
You drive into Milton and youimmediately know it's something
different.
It's beautiful, there's aconsistency of the architecture
and all that.
So there is a desire tomaintain that control.
(17:15):
There are resources to bedivided up.
How do you do that fairly?
Jan Jones was, I think, as lateas 10 years ago.
There was an attempt toresurrect that, but it hasn't
met the political will.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
One of the other things is I think there's a law
someplace where we can't add anymore counties, so they'd have
to.
Georgia's decided no morecounties, so they're either
going to have to merge together.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Georgia has a lot of counties.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I think there's a.
That's a law, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
It is a law, and who wants to give up their county
Right?
No one's going to agree to that, so it's really at a deadlock.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Interesting.
Interesting To be continued onthese discussions.
Jeff and Lynn, this has beenanother enlightening
conversation.
We touched on just a little bitof history, kind of in between
the beginning and where we arenow and I believe in our next
episode.
Stay tuned, everybody.
We got another one coming.
We'll talk more about presentday and how Milton became a city
(18:17):
in 2006 and kind of go throughthose processes.
So before we close, I'm goingto give you guys an opportunity
to share how listeners can learnabout the Milton Historical
Society.
I will put your website in theshow notes, but happy to have
you share anything coming up.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, we're open door .
Our lectures are free.
Anyone can come.
There's a lecture next week onTuesday.
It's usually the second Tuesdayof the month at the Milton
Library.
We try to promote those throughregular media as well as our
own social media and word ofmouth.
We get members more from wordof mouth than from buying
(18:59):
advertising dollars, becausepeople are generally happy.
It's a club, so you're admittedto like-minded people that want
to learn about the heritage ofwhere they live.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I love that.
I love that.
Again, I appreciate you guysbeing here.
I will put the information inthe show notes so people can
access your information very,very quickly.
But for today, that's a wrapfor this episode of Milton in
Maine.
And if you enjoyed thisdiscussion, don't forget to
subscribe and follow us for thisepisode of Milton and Maine.
And if you enjoyed thisdiscussion, don't forget to
subscribe and follow us for morestories about Milton's rich
history, vibrant present andexciting future.
(19:30):
Remember, if you want to learnmore about the city of Milton,
be sure to visit our website atMiltonGAgov.
Until next time, stay curiousand take care.
Thanks for listening to Miltonand Maine.
We hope this episode gave youfresh insights into what makes
our city so special.
Stay connected and don't missan episode by subscribing to
this podcast on your favoriteplatform and following us on
(19:52):
social media for all updates.
And, of course, if you want tolearn more about the city, visit
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events.
Until next time.
Thanks for being part of theconversation and we'll see you
on the next Milton in Maine.
Welcome to Milton and Maine, the official podcast for
the city of Milton.
We want to bring you closer tothe heart of our community
through stories that inform,inspire and connect.
Each episode offers abehind-the-scenes look at the
people, projects and prioritiesshaping Milton, covering
everything from local governmentand future development to arts,
culture, sustainability andpublic safety.
(00:26):
Whether you're a resident, alocal business owner or just
curious about our city, this isyour front row seat to what
makes Milton special.
Welcome everyone.
I'm Christy Weeks, thecommunications manager for the
City of Milton, and today I'm soexcited to welcome back Jeff
Dufresne and Lynn Tinley fromthe Milton Historical Society.
Jeff and Lynn, it is so greatto have you with us again.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
The last time we met, we took a look at the key
moments in Georgia's historyfrom about 1752 to 1857-ish,
exploring how Georgia was thelast admission to the original
13 colonies and other keydevelopments that shaped the
foundation of our state.
Today we're going to take alook at Georgia's history from
the Civil War through the GreatDepression.
(01:10):
So my first question ready,Ready, here we go.
How did Milton County and NorthGeorgia fit into the broader
conflict when it comes to theCivil War?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, the first thing that I think is important to
understand is that they didn'treally necessarily agree with
the war.
If you will, this area did notwant to secede from the Union.
In fact, a lot of further, evennorth here didn't want to.
It was really not a plantationeconomy and there were not
enough people to support a wareither, so ultimately it was
nothing but a hardship.
I mean there were not enoughpeople to support a war either,
(01:45):
so ultimately it was nothing buta hardship.
I mean, a war is a hardship foranyone.
But many men had to fight a warthey did not agree with.
They were conscripted, therewas loss of income, you know,
women became widowed and had toraise their children together.
And I think I said we were nota plantation economy, so there
was no benefit to it.
And ultimately, at the end ofthe war, if you had fought for
(02:08):
the Confederacy and were stillalive and wanted to still be a
citizen and participate ingovernment, perhaps you had to
sign an oath of allegiance tothe Union in order to be able to
be guaranteed your citizenship.
Wow, yeah, and so we studiedone for a little bit of a
(02:29):
diversion man who lost a leg inthe Civil War and we have a
letter of his that was writtenthat said I didn't even want to
be in the war.
Why do I have to?
He was not wanting to have tosign that oath of allegiance for
whatever reason, I don't knowwhy.
But he's like I didn't do itvoluntarily.
You're telling me that I didvoluntarily, but I didn't do it
(02:50):
voluntarily because I wasconscripted and if I hadn't I
would have been punished orkilled anyway.
So how can you tell me I haveto sign this thing?
So it was a real hardship onthe area.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, it sounds like it, and so that kind of bleeds
into what life was like for themduring the war.
But you're talking about womenwho are now raising their
children on their own becausetheir husbands are off to war.
Many didn't return, so what wasit like for them?
For those Well, this area.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Didn't actually this area see any battles fought, but
you remember there were.
That's good to know.
Yeah, well, there were battlesfought.
Not very far away though.
Right, the Chattahoochee Riverwas well known to the Union
troops, so they knew what wasgoing on for sure.
Prices of cotton plummeted andthey were being pillaged by the
(03:42):
Union troops.
So even though we didn't fightper se any battles here, they
certainly felt the hardship ofthe war and knew what was going
on, and were impactedeconomically.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Sure, and everybody was up here just trying to
survive in the first place.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Exactly without a lot of able-bodied men.
Yep yep.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So how did the end of the war and the Reconstruction
reshape the economy and dailylife in Milton County?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah, this is an interesting question.
When I first thought about thisI thought, you know, I've never
really read about theReconstruction era.
Here Again, I think some partof it goes back to they were
just trying to survive and liveand that kind of a thing.
Did things out of need, out ofneed exactly, and raise their
(04:30):
children and take care ofeverything.
But some of the things that didhappen politically if you will
were that voting rights wereguaranteed to formerly enslaved
people.
So whereas I kind of get thesense that there was a great
deal of harmony in this areaprior to Civil War and
Reconstruction and that's, I'msure, an over-exaggeration, but
there wasn't the issues that wenormally think of when it comes
(04:53):
to plantation economies theredid develop some tension between
previously enslaved andunenslaved, so eventually these
differences created two.
I don't know how active some ofthe Ku Klux Klan groups were,
but there over the yearsdeveloped tension between the
(05:16):
two groups and again theeconomic recovery was very slow.
The cotton prices, which isreally for that cash economy had
plummeted and the RoswellManufacturing Company had been
stopped production andeverything.
So it was a very slow recovery.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So I'm going to ask this question.
I hope nobody judges me on thisone, but it's just out of
curiosity and it could be veryobvious and I'm not putting my
pieces together.
Explain why In cottonproduction, or were the
(05:52):
locations destroyed overtaken?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, so as far as manufacturing companies, which
is, who was going to really buythe cotton and use the cotton.
Roswell Manufacturing Companywas destroyed.
They had to rebuild some ofthat, but cotton prices not just
in the area, everywhereplummeted so you just couldn't
get the amount of money for thecotton that you used to be able
to get before Markets.
(06:17):
I mean there was a war, sotaking your excess produce to
market would have been difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It was a single economy based on cotton and the
price plummeted.
There were alternatives.
Also, a lot of the freed blackpeople traveled north.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, for sure or.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Saver Haven and then climactic things happened freed
black people traveled north tosave our haven, and then
climactic things happened.
There was a huge, huge drought.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I was wondering how the weather was impacting all of
these like the perfect stormcoming.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And it was a perfect super storm because you had this
critter called a boll weevil.
That totally decimated thecotton industry.
It was a perfect super stormbecause you had this critter
called a bull weevil Right thattotally decimated the cotton
industry.
So farmers to survive, theytried to raise other things like
corn or hogs or whatever, buteverything came to almost a
screeching stop after thatAgrarian economy had stopped.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So I'm not going to say I have never heard of a boll
weevil.
I do not know what it is,Forgive me, Georgia for not
knowing what this is, but I grewup in Colorado and I don't know
what a boll weevil is.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, it's a little black bug.
It looks like a black smallteardrop with little legs and it
just gets into the cottonfibers and it eats away.
It eats it, it'll kill it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And where did they originate from?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Just curious, I'm not sure where they originated from
.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I don't know, stay tuned, I will find out the
journey of the boll weevil.
I'll get back to you on that.
That's interesting, because wasthere any way for the local
farmers to combat it?
Yeah, or was it just so?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
everyone.
In fact, we in this area hadparticularly Broadwell he
believe it or not developed andpatented a boll weevil killing
machine.
I don't know how it worked, butit fascinated me that he did so
.
There was one.
I don't think it was overlyeffective, but basically
Broadwell and Rucker two of thecommon names were more than just
(08:24):
farmers, they were reallyinventors, right, and they were
working, both working hard toperfect the cotton seed.
And by then you have some ofthe universities Auburn, alabama
and then in UGA that areworking with everyone to figure
out a type of cotton that wouldbe boll weevil resistant.
And of course then chemicalscome in and they're developing
(08:46):
pesticides.
So you know, boll weevil washere from, I think, like 1915, I
think is when it really starteduntil like 1990, I think.
I mean it took a long time.
That's a lifetime a long time II've grown a little bit kind of
at home and I didn't think I wasgoing to be able to do it.
Somebody said you have to getthe state to approve it.
But you don't anymore, but youused to have to.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
In fact, you can't buy was it for fear of the boll
weevil absolutely making a?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
reappearance Absolutely, and so the state
would have you monitor.
There's something that willcollect the boll weevils and you
had to tell them if you got aboll weevil, but you don't have
to do that anymore, wow.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Good to know I will not be growing my own cotton
regardless.
If there's anything to knowabout me, I am not somebody who
grows things.
My children did fine Plants,not so much.
Okay, back to history, did thecrisis of the boll weevil and
the challenges with theagricultural community change
(09:47):
what crops were grown in thearea, or did it push people
toward other industries?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yes, one of the industries was chicken chicken
yes yeah, so apparently a lot offarmers switched to chicken, to
yeah, for sure agriculturally.
I think they just steered awayfrom cotton and they grew
produce and went to hogs andcows.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Interesting, still very agricultural Fun fact.
I did recently learn thatGainesville had made eating
fried chicken illegal to use afork, you had to eat it with
your fingers.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Well, I'm not sure what I'll use that one for.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Tune into the Milton PD pd page for weird law
wednesdays you don't have towash as many dishes right?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
no, it was.
Of course.
It was generally in jest and itwas more of a pr stunt than
anything, but I did learn that.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So there you go we didn't really have the the soil
of the content climate fortobacco, if you will which was a
real cash crop just north of us, so we were struggling to find
what could fill the gap.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So tobacco, now that you bring that up, what is that?
Perfect climate?
Does it need to be a littlecolder, or is it?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Cooler slightly different soil type.
That's all I know is probably.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Interesting, and so one more question on that.
I'm kind of asking questionsoff topic here, but tobacco was
grown mostly from where,landmarks, where I would know
Virginia, virginia.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Carolinas.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Okay, all right.
See, this is Christy'seducational series, catching her
up on Georgia history, becauseshe didn't take those classes.
So how did, or did they, didthe government and agricultural
experts respond to help thesestruggling farmers?
Was there any support for them?
(11:53):
It was kind of a figure it outon your own.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You know, on a local level it was really church and
your neighbors.
It was survival.
It was not an organization thatI can remember that got in
there on a grassroots area.
Certainly, the New Deal in 1935, with, as I mentioned, the
minimum wages and better workconditions and child labor laws
(12:20):
and all those helped a greatdeal and they were welcomed and
they were successful over aperiod of time and there was
also a sense of hope, I believeEven during the Depression.
(12:41):
There's a picture of the MiltonCounty Bank and it had a sign
on its door a place of safetyfor your money.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
They went broke.
The thought was there.
They didn't want to.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
They paid all the depositors off in full before
they went out.
So there was a belief in theland and where they were and
we're going to get through this.
Certainly the church and allthat played a part in their
spiritual revival.
So it was bad, it was a test,but clearly, fast forward 150
years it was worth it.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Yeah, and I would say that it was a very close-knit
community.
I keep going back to thesparsely populated but you'll
see, if you do ancestry work onthese people, you'll see how
many of the families wereintermarried together, not
incestuously, but just you seethe names again again.
So it was a tight, tightcommunity and the government
(13:36):
didn't have the kind of aidprograms that we think of today.
So to Jeff's point, it was thecommunity and the belief that
things would get better.
You know it's changed but we'regoing to be fine in faith and
everything.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So that's it.
Yeah, so we've started to talka little bit.
We're starting to get up intothat Great Depression era and we
all know how hard it hit thiscountry.
I mean it was devastating.
What were its effects on MiltonCounty and the surrounding
communities?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Well for Milton County directly, as Jeff
mentioned earlier.
They really couldn't afford tooperate anymore and so,
basically, they merged withFulton County, as did Campbell
County, as Jeff said.
I mean, it was to great benefitfor them.
Ultimately, when you startthinking about public education
and road systems and the lawsfor labor laws and those kinds
(14:33):
of things.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So really that was their solution to survive for
the time being was to merge withFulton County, and you may have
already covered this, soforgive me for asking again, but
what role did the federalprograms, like the New Deal,
play in helping this region torecover?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Infrastructure schools roads.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You just covered all.
I just asked the same questionagain, didn't I?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, it's funny because we don't see the ones
like you do in some other places, but they did absolutely work.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
And even the human aspect not abusing children,
allowing them to go to school,and limited amount that we were
there was abuse and they try tocurb that.
So it was a good thing.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
It was an external force that was carried on the
ground level and it helped setsome boundaries and some
guidelines and some expectationsfor people in a time when they
were lacking guidance.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Sure absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
As we're talking about the merger with Milton
County and Fulton County, wasanybody upset about it?
Or was everybody just at apoint in their life where they
were welcoming that mergerbecause they needed that
infrastructure?
Or was there some holdouts outthere just not happy about that?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
There are people for it and against it.
The people for it wanted morecontrol over the government and
development and preserve sort ofthe bucolic heritage up here.
There are people against itbecause white against black,
rich against poor, becauseCampbell County was was from the
south, we were from the north.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
It would dilute the control of our local environment
Control was a big, big deal.
That's where I was getting,because you have to think that
there had to have been peoplewho were against big government
even then.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Absolutely and, as I said, fulton County is bigger
than three US states.
It's a big territory.
It requires a lot of governanceand control, consensus building
and it was not a homogeneouspopulation.
So, yes, there was tension.
It's a conversation ofreestablishing Milton County now
(16:42):
.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
That's where I'd like you to take this.
Since you opened that door,there are still those occasional
discussions aboutre-establishing Milton County.
So what are the key argumentsfor and against this idea?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Well, I think it's the same arguments that prompted
the formation of the city ofMilton was control over
development.
What is the character of thisplace?
You drive into Milton and youimmediately know it's something
different.
It's beautiful, there's aconsistency of the architecture
and all that.
So there is a desire tomaintain that control.
(17:15):
There are resources to bedivided up.
How do you do that fairly?
Jan Jones was, I think, as lateas 10 years ago.
There was an attempt toresurrect that, but it hasn't
met the political will.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
One of the other things is I think there's a law
someplace where we can't add anymore counties, so they'd have
to.
Georgia's decided no morecounties, so they're either
going to have to merge together.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Georgia has a lot of counties.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I think there's a.
That's a law, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
It is a law, and who wants to give up their county
Right?
No one's going to agree to that, so it's really at a deadlock.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Interesting.
Interesting To be continued onthese discussions.
Jeff and Lynn, this has beenanother enlightening
conversation.
We touched on just a little bitof history, kind of in between
the beginning and where we arenow and I believe in our next
episode.
Stay tuned, everybody.
We got another one coming.
We'll talk more about presentday and how Milton became a city
(18:17):
in 2006 and kind of go throughthose processes.
So before we close, I'm goingto give you guys an opportunity
to share how listeners can learnabout the Milton Historical
Society.
I will put your website in theshow notes, but happy to have
you share anything coming up.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, we're open door .
Our lectures are free.
Anyone can come.
There's a lecture next week onTuesday.
It's usually the second Tuesdayof the month at the Milton
Library.
We try to promote those throughregular media as well as our
own social media and word ofmouth.
We get members more from wordof mouth than from buying
(18:59):
advertising dollars, becausepeople are generally happy.
It's a club, so you're admittedto like-minded people that want
to learn about the heritage ofwhere they live.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I love that.
I love that.
Again, I appreciate you guysbeing here.
I will put the information inthe show notes so people can
access your information very,very quickly.
But for today, that's a wrapfor this episode of Milton in
Maine.
And if you enjoyed thisdiscussion, don't forget to
subscribe and follow us for thisepisode of Milton and Maine.
And if you enjoyed thisdiscussion, don't forget to
subscribe and follow us for morestories about Milton's rich
history, vibrant present andexciting future.
(19:30):
Remember, if you want to learnmore about the city of Milton,
be sure to visit our website atMiltonGAgov.
Until next time, stay curiousand take care.
Thanks for listening to Miltonand Maine.
We hope this episode gave youfresh insights into what makes
our city so special.
Stay connected and don't missan episode by subscribing to
this podcast on your favoriteplatform and following us on
(19:52):
social media for all updates.
And, of course, if you want tolearn more about the city, visit
us online at wwwmiltongagov forresources, news and upcoming
events.
Until next time.
Thanks for being part of theconversation and we'll see you
on the next Milton in Maine.
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