December 30, 2024 • 48 mins
Join Jordan Ryan on this Wellness for Life Swapcast as he takes you on an inspiring journey from military service to discovering the healing power of alternative wellness. Dive into holistic approaches for veterans navigating life transitions, and see how they stack up against traditional western medicine. Explore the science behind adaptogens in coffee, the benefits of functional mushrooms, and a lively discussion on matcha versus coffee.
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(00:00):
The holistic approach in my eyes is saying whydo you have this symptom?
If your blood pressure and cholesterol are highrather than coming in and treating your blood
pressure and cholesterol with a pill, let'slook at your diet.
What's your movement level and level ofactivity?
I was like, what if we can kind of habit stackand get them done while we're doing something
(00:22):
that we're already looking forward to doing orthat we don't need a reminder for.
I need to go out there and I need to changepeople's lives and do something positive and,
you know, then that's gonna be your life.
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to anotherepisode of Wellness for Life.
I'm your host Niki Wolfe, and today I'm excitedto welcome Jordan Ryan.
He is a wellness entrepreneur and former Navaland Marine special operations medic.
(00:46):
He's the owner of San Diego's firstadaptogen-infused coffee company and a leader
in the wellness industry.
He has an MBA and a Master of Supply ChainManagement.
He's turned his personal healing journey withplant medicine into a thriving business
specializing in adaptogens, CBD, and mushrooms,and he also hosts the podcast, the Mind Body
(01:08):
Mushroom, where he explores naturalalternatives and wellness.
Jordan, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you, Niki.
It's happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Absolutely.
Well, I first wanna say thank you for yourservice and what you've provided to this
country.
I'm a big supporter of our military and justthe sacrifices that they all make and you all
(01:29):
make, so I really appreciate that.
Of course.
It was a privilege, so I'm thankful for myopportunity to serve as well, but thank you for
recognizing it.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, I feel like that is kind of the perfectway to start out is understanding your
background because from my understanding ofwhat I've read and what I've heard, really,
this is kind of the genesis of what brought youinto this industry and looking into holistic
(01:52):
medicine to help heal your body because of someof the experiences that you went through with
the military or kind of the transition outside.
I'd love for you to kind of just open up andshare your background in the military and what
made that transition.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, I was enlisted in the Navy as amedic, a corpsman, and I worked within naval
(02:16):
and Marine special operations.
So, the Marine Corps has their, like, NavySEALs, which, like, the Marine Raider
battalions, and they draw all of their medicsfrom the Navy.
And so I, being a medic and wanting to work inspecial operations and kind of having been
trained to do so through my time before theNavy and then entering, that was sort of the
(02:39):
field that I went into.
And, it was a very physically demanding job.
You're doing a ton of rucking with weight onyour back, long ocean swims, a bunch of stuff
in the pool, treading with, like, bricks, doingstuff underwater, buddy tows, land navigation,
(03:01):
basic reconnaissance, all these different, sortof very physical skills, and I enjoyed it very
much.
I enjoyed kind of approaching it from a medicalstandpoint of, like, you're the guy that if
when, you know, stuff hits the fan, you know,it's you gotta be the guy who's in charge of
(03:24):
this and triaging patients and getting them tosafety and, you know, addressing all the stuff.
So, I really liked that aspect of my job.
Unfortunately, in training, I got injured.
I injured my back, had a really bad backinjury, horrible sciatica, could barely walk,
(03:45):
couldn't stand, couldn't sit, sleepinghorribly, and it totally sidelined my career in
this profession.
So, you know, I was moving in a certaindirection, and now all of a sudden, I was the
guy that, you know, couldn't go on the ruckruns, couldn't do any of the things.
You know, always had to go to appointments, hadto do that sort of, that type of stuff.
(04:08):
So, on top of the physical symptoms of pain,discomfort, you know, radiculopathy, all the
nerve stuff, etc., there was also a ton ofpsychological sort of, like, anxiety,
depression, wrestling with, you know, youridentity, your ego, you know, how others are
(04:31):
perceiving you now, what that means, youfeeling like a failure, all of this stuff
that's sort of like on top of, you know, theuncertainty of, hey.
Are you ever gonna get better?
So, my initial kind of path was, well, I gottado what I gotta do to get back in the fight and
get back to training and do what I needed, youknow, get back with my team.
(04:53):
So I was going down a very Western medicalapproach, a lot of pills, injections,
surgeries, and I wasn't getting a lot better.
It was becoming clear kind of around this timethat my career was in question in the long
term, as well as my health and all these otherthings that I sort of talked about.
(05:15):
And that was like a pivotal moment for mebecause my mindset sort of changed from, you
know, how do I get better and get back to doingmy job to, hey, this might be some version of
my life managing these symptoms.
And if that's the case, how do I do sosustainably and naturally such that I'm not
(05:38):
just shoveling handfuls of pills in my mouthevery day and dealing with all of these second-
and third-order effects from the medications,the injections, you know, being out of
commission for surgery, doing the recovery,etc.
And that's what kind of got me exploringholistic wellness, plant medicine, surf
therapy, and kind of kicked off the nextchapter of my life.
(06:03):
That's incredible.
I appreciate you sharing that, and I just Idon't I hear stories.
I've never I don't think I've ever, like,interviewed somebody from the military, but
I've heard stories of, you know, professionalathletes where they get this injury and the
amount of identity attached to them.
I can only imagine if it's at that level, ifnot more, from the experiences that you go
(06:25):
through your, you know, the fight for thecountry and just the willingness to do
something greater than yourself and having tobe pulled from that kind of almost out of your
own control.
So I can imagine that the psychological impacthas to be incredible to go through and, you
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know, just, I guess, commend you for being ableto work through that.
And I'm sure there's still moments, you know,where you gotta fight this battle, but I do
think we all, you know, carry a cross, andthere's certain things that we have to
overcome.
And now look at what you've been able to creategoing through those experiences.
I'm not trying to, like, I just, like, I thinkabout how deep and impactful that must have
(07:11):
been and how you were able to transform thatstory and create now this company and being
able to help others.
So you mentioned a few, and we'll get into kindof, you know, a little bit of the difference
between military medicine and holisticmedicine.
But I just love to hear a little bit of some ofyour other approaches.
You mentioned surf therapy.
(07:33):
What were some of the other modalities that youused to heal?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, you said a lot there.
That was really good.
I'll, I'll, I wanna hop into some modalities,but I just want to say one thing that's kind of
related to this was starting Wind and Sea andkind of figuring out how to channel what I was
(07:53):
learning and discovering for myself and makingthat my mission to create something that I
could then use to impact my community and alsoeducate and create products like that.
It was when Wind and Sea became my lifeline, itwas my chance to not feel like a failure, not
feel like I was broken, you know, to go and dosomething hard again that was meaningful and
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mission-driven and, you know, so it really in alot of ways, like, I attribute, you know, my
successful transition into civilian life withentrepreneurship and really trying to build
something and come at it with purpose.
Was that something that was kind of taught toyou too?
I mean, I'm just curious.
(08:39):
You know, I'm hoping that the military, and Iguess it depends on, you know, who you work
with, that offers, okay, going to therapy orutilizing these tools, or is that kind of more
of a familial experience of, like, okay.
Let's dive into this.
Like, how did you Sure.
I don't think everybody can make thattransition.
My husband has worked in the addiction field,and he's kind of probably gonna be going to
(09:03):
working with vets.
And so, like, that's something that's big onour heart.
But, you know, I don't know if that's theapproach that everybody takes.
And so where did that inspiration come to makethat switch?
Sure.
Yeah.
I mean, I would say, you know, the militarytries to kind of, they have these transition
programs, like TAPS is one of them, and they'resort of checking the box of like, yeah, we're,
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you know, we're showing you how to make aresume and kind of, you know, we're trying to
help you transition.
There's a lot of stuff for veterans out there.
I mean, if you want to work in the federalgovernment or a state government or anything
like that, you get preferential hiring.
So you do learn about some of these things, butstill, I do think that the general consensus
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with a lot of people when they get out is it'ssort of like, all right, thanks for your time,
like there's the door, best of luck to you.
And you don't really know all of the details ofyour benefits, which was something while I was
in grad school.
It was another great honor to be able to dothis.
I worked in the military veteran office, and Iwas helping transitioning students, like, hey,
(10:12):
navigate your GI Bill and all of your educationbenefits because I got three master's degrees
for free because of the GI Bill, and it waslife-changing.
And that was a really important transition timefor me as well because, I mean, I was in
medicine, you know, and I'm doing this job.
I was thinking I might go into medicine, like,right?
(10:34):
That would make sense.
So I'm looking at, you know, okay, nursingdegrees, physical therapy, firefighting, all
these other things and, you know, thatultimately was not the route that I went down
for a number of reasons, but fortunately I hadthis, like, grace period where I was doing
something constructive, I was back in school, Iwas getting, you know, my graduate degrees, and
(10:58):
I was figuring, what do I wanna do?
What do I wanna do?
You know?
I knew that there was, you know, while I was inyou don't love no.
I don't think anyone loves the military whilethey're in.
You know?
It's kind of it's something that you, like,appreciate more in retrospect than while you're
there doing it.
That's your David Goggins?
(11:19):
Yeah.
You know, he was actually one.
Dude, he was one of so he was one of myinstructors in Great Lakes up in Chicago, and
he's the real deal, dude.
He is that guy 24/7, one of the mostinspirational people I've ever met.
It is wild.
But, yeah, I mean, I think for most people,right, they're kind of like it's something you
(11:39):
look back in retrospect, and that was somethingthat at the time, you know, looking back, I was
able to really see that it doesn't matter whatyour job was.
You could be, you know, admin personnel, acook, you know, everybody is making sacrifices.
Everybody is enduring hardship and dealing withdifficulties transitioning when they get out,
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and there's a very big lack of education interms of some of these more holistic modalities
out there.
Living in San Diego, California, you know, it'svery cultural to see yoga classes on the beach
and, you know, a sound bath clinic or, youknow, plant medicine retreats and all these
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different things.
You see them all around.
You see them on Instagram.
You might know somebody who's doing it.
So it's easy to find, even if you're atransitioning veteran, and not feel like it's a
weird thing to do, you know?
But some people, they get out of the military,maybe they're injured, maybe they're not, and
they go back to another state, another placethat maybe does not have that type of culture,
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and you are subject to just like the VA, youknow, what they're gonna give you, alcohol and
easy access to handguns.
So, I mean, it makes sense why veterans aredisproportionately likely to commit suicide.
The number is, like, 22 veterans a day.
I think it's even higher than that now, youknow, which is crazy.
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And that's that was just something that I kindanoticed that, like, alright.
I'm very fortunate to, a, be open-minded enoughto want to explore these things, understanding
that, like, hey, you know, okay, John Rambo isnot your tomorrow.
Right?
Like, you need to that's not your tomorrow.
(13:32):
You need to figure out what that next chapteris gonna be, and some guys are not able to do
that.
They are gonna hold on to that previousidentity of themselves because they don't know
what their next version is.
So I was very lucky in a lot of ways, but I sawthat not everyone had all those resources and
not everyone had that same mindset.
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And, I became very passionate about trying tocreate a company that made something cool and
good and that I liked and that I used, butwhose underlying mission was really trying to
change the culture within the veteran communityto be more open and accepting of these other
modalities.
Fantastic.
You know, I just wanna...
of these other modalities.
Fantastic.
You know, I just wanna bring something up.
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You mentioned lucky, but I have to say thatthere could be luck involved, but you also put
in the work and the time and the energy to dothat.
And I, you know, I don't think everybody iswilling to do that, and you're also putting
your energy towards making a difference inother people's lives.
One thing that I firmly believe, especially ifyou struggle with mental health of any aspect,
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is that if you wanna get out of your head, getinto somebody else's heart, make somebody else
important.
And so what you're doing is that is a way toshift and work through our trauma, and that's
what you're doing.
You're putting in the work because I thinkthere's a balance of, like, the empathy and the
feeling, but we also have to take action.
And so I clearly see that.
(14:56):
And so maybe you say luck's involved, but Ijust wanna give you a little bit more props
that you are putting in a lot of that effort.
Well, thank you.
So let's explore kind of the differencesbetween the military medicine and holistic
medicine.
And I do believe
For sure.
You know, I've been in the hospital since I was3 years old.
It's just in the ER.
The other everything's
Oh, no.
But, you know, I have to use Western medicinesometimes, and there is a purpose for that.
(15:20):
If my leg's falling off, don't rub aloe vera onit.
Like, get me everything that it needs, butthere's a role and I think foundational support
to holistic medicine.
So, one, I'd love to explore the differencebetween those in your eyes, but also really
what created that transition.
I mean, coming from the military and beingdoused with all these pills, did you just walk
(15:42):
into a health food store and somebody told youlike, how did that transition happen?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally.
Okay.
So, first part of that question is kinda what'sthe difference, and I think you kinda nailed it
there with, you know, if their leg's fallingoff, yeah, you don't want someone to come and
rub aloe vera on it.
Like, thank God for Western medicine, thetechnology, the advances.
(16:02):
I mean, doctors spend—they dedicate theirentire lives to this practice and to, you know,
continuously learning and improving and, youknow, you having a good health outcome.
So there's absolutely a place for Westernmedicine.
I would say in my eyes, the biggest differencebetween Western medicine and what we can call,
(16:23):
like, a holistic approach is that Westernmedicine is very focused on identifying your
symptoms and then from there backing into adiagnosis and then treating the symptoms of the
diagnosis.
And it's very like, you know, zooming intowherever the problem is and then surgically
(16:46):
kind of treating that problem.
And, hey, maybe there's another, you know,there's a second-order problem that comes on
because of that, like a side effect, like aperfect very common example, let's say, is like
taking anti-inflammatory drugs like NSAIDs,ibuprofen.
So you take a lot of NSAIDs, hey, you'redealing with chronic pain, so you're taking
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anti-inflammatory to help deal with the pain.
Okay.
That's great.
But now it's like wearing through the lining ofyour stomach, so now you're starting to develop
acid reflux.
So you go into the doctor and they're like,don't worry.
Well, we got a pill for acid reflux too.
And then you see how the and we all know it.
We've all been there, you know, or, you know,hey, I take Adderall because I need to focus
(17:29):
more, but then I can't sleep very well.
So their doctor prescribed me Ambien so I canget to sleep.
But then, you know, I have a hard time reallywaking up because I'm all conked out from the
and now I take more out of it.
And so we create these sort of that's theWestern medical approach.
There's a place for it.
Thank God for it, but, you know, the holisticapproach in my eyes is saying, why do you have
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this symptom?
You know, great.
We see that you have this, but, you know, ifyour blood pressure and cholesterol are high
rather than coming in and treating your bloodpressure and cholesterol with a pill, let's
look at, you know, your diet, your, you know,what's your movement level and level of
activity, you know, what external stressors areyou dealing with in your life?
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You know, how do we zoom out and look at thecontext in which you reside and then start
treating the symptoms that way?
And that to me, A, just kind of makes a littlebit more sense, but also I feel like,
especially for stuff that's chronic, you'remanaging it.
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Like hopefully, whatever you have, you can makeit go away.
You know what I mean?
That is ideal.
That is the best-case scenario.
But there are a lot of conditions that peoplehave that are chronic.
And if they're chronic, my perspective was howdo I manage this with doing the least harm in
the long run to my health.
(19:00):
You know?
Absolutely.
And I think the purpose too is, let's get tothe root of what's going on, and let's stop
putting a Band-Aid on some of these things.
You know, I don't know if you've heard it.
Despite what anybody's political view is, and Ihaven't watched the whole thing, but RFK and
Casey and Kelly Means and just this whole groupthat just did kind of a speech on changing the
(19:23):
way we approach health care and
Yeah.
You know?
Huge.
What is currently going on now and what cantransform and move the needle for our health is
tremendous, and it's really talking a lot aboutthis stuff that there are so many chronic
conditions that can actually be healed withnatural support and remedies.
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I just did an episode.
I think it'll air—well, it'll be aired probablybefore this goes live—but it's really talking
about, you know, acute disease versus chronicdiseases.
And when we are, to your point of NSAIDs andall these different things, when we are
constantly suppressing acute illnesses, thatcan actually—there are studies that show that
it can lead to some of the chronic.
(20:05):
So how do we utilize holistic modalities toheal and prevent some of these other ones?
Now we're gonna dive into a few specificadaptogens, but before we do that, tell us a
little bit more about your company.
And I really wanna, you know, hone in on thecoffee and what you do with the coffee that
(20:25):
makes it so unique, so powerful, and so healingfor, specifically, our nervous system,
especially in regards to caffeinated coffee.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, that actually is a perfect kind of segueinto the second part of your question, which
was kind of like, how did I discover thistransition?
Right?
So, I, you know, dealing with all of theseissues and was also dealing with a lot of side
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effects from my medication, and I went toundergrad college at the University of Oregon.
So we were cannabis 101 was like my freshmanyear.
I was very familiar with that plant medicine.
But I was still in the military, and so Icouldn't use THC products.
I didn't want to jeopardize kind of like mybenefits and all this stuff.
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So I was, like, let me try CBD.
I hadn't really tried it very much, but I knewthat it had, you know, many of the same
benefits.
It wasn't federally illegal.
They weren't testing for it, and it wasn'tagainst any rules.
So I was trying that and was getting benefit,mostly with my anxiety, sleep, stress type
(21:37):
stuff, but there's a lot of anti-inflammatoryproperties to CBD as well.
But, so that was kind of like our firstproduct.
And then I started exploring more into themedicinal mushroom space just, you know,
because I don't believe in like silver bullets,like, you know, this one plant, you know, this
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one pill, this one thing.
Like, I really do think part of holisticapproach is supplementation is an aspect.
You know, lifestyle, all these things are anaspect.
So there's a number of things.
And within supplementation, even there, it'slike, okay, CBD, we like it.
Great.
But that may not be the only thing out there.
You know?
So I started looking into some of thesemedicinal mushrooms, seeing that there was a
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lot of impact on inflammation, nerveregeneration, cognitive support, mood and
stress support, and I was like, well, thatsounds great.
Maybe I could figure out how to infuse ourcoffee with these supplements.
Because the idea of getting into coffee kind ofbegan with I'm on board with these plant
(22:44):
medicines, these extra supplements, but I stillhave to remember to take them.
You know what I mean?
They're not going to do anything if they justsit in your pantry.
So I was like, what if we can kind of have itstack and get them done while we're doing
something that we're already looking forward todoing or that we don't need a reminder for?
And coffee just was like a natural sort ofobvious first thing I think about when I get
(23:04):
up.
I'm like, all right, it's my motivation to putmy feet on the ground.
This is all right, let's go make some coffee.
So if I can get coffee and get give me thesebenefits, now I'm getting the benefits and I
don't have to, like, think about it.
So that was kind of the transition to there.
Now diving into some of the kind of specificadaptogens with coffee that help regulate some
(23:26):
of the stress responses that so caffeine is astimulant, and it creates cortisol and
adrenaline spikes, and that's why you kind offeel wired and awake and alert.
But the half-life of caffeine is much longerthan the, like, feelings of the caffeine.
(23:50):
So what I mean by that you
off for
a sec.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was just gonna say if we can clarify what youmean by
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think a lot of us have heard of that, andmaybe it's like from my understanding, it's how
long the caffeine or the effect stays in yoursystem.
Yes.
But, yeah, if you
can No.
No.
That's it basically right there.
It's just so, your body is still processing thecaffeine for much longer than you are feeling
(24:19):
the effects of the caffeine.
So you may already have kind of hit that crashpoint of, like, all right, time for that next
cup, but your body is still processing it asthough we got plenty of caffeine.
We're still spiking adrenaline.
We're still spiking cortisol, and, you know,that's what might make you have a bad night's
(24:42):
sleep if you drink that 3 p.m.
cup of coffee or something like that.
So as I was learning more and more about thescience and kind of seeing how a lot of these
things interact, you know, caffeine and coffeeis actually one of the oldest plant medicines,
not oldest, but it's an OG plant medicine.
People understood if we take this plant, theseeds of this plant, and we roast them and then
(25:06):
we, you know, brew them with hot water and wedrink that, it gives us energy to do stuff, you
know?
And there's a lot of alkaloids in the coffeeplant that are good for nootropic, good for
your brain, they're good for your heart, etc.
So that's why sometimes you see these thingsthat are like, doctors say, drink three and a
half cups of coffee.
It's good for your heart, something like that.
(25:28):
Wouldn't do that just because there's a lot ofcaffeine, and it's kinda tough, but there are
benefits to caffeine.
So what I kinda discovered is, like, forexample, the reishi mushroom, which modulates
your HPA axis, which is, like, kind of thatadrenal, pituitary, thalamic area that kinda
creates that.
So what the reishi does is it comes in and justhelps modulate that, I guess, receptor.
(25:53):
Some of my language might be wrong.
I'm sorry if anyone feels free to correct me.
But that kind of reduces the big spike ofadrenaline and big spike of cortisol, and it
kind of, like, tamps them down a little bit,brings you back closer to homeostasis, which is
that feeling of, like, balance, like, okay.
Cool.
You know, I'm feeling good.
(26:14):
I don't feel stressed.
I don't feel brain fog.
I don't feel highs and lows.
I'm just, like, cruising.
You know?
Absolutely.
No, I think adaptogens are incredible.
And one thing that I think a lot of us and mostof my listeners are in the health, you know,
field.
They're supplement takers.
They probably heard of adaptogens, but I thinkit's pretty cool adaptogens get their name
because they adapt to the stressors in yourbody.
(26:35):
So, like, Jordan, if you wake up today andyou're super anxious and I wake up and I'm
exhausted, we both can take that sameadaptogen, and it's going to help bring us back
to equilibrium, which I think is incredible.
And I need to kind of explore the cultivationand the history of some of these plant
medicines because a lot of these adaptogens aregrown in—I mean, we're focusing on mushrooms,
(26:58):
but there's plenty of others—they're grown inextreme climates, altitudes, environments, and
they are able to thrive despite theirenvironment, despite being up way in the hills
or super hot weather, freezing cold weather,they can thrive.
And so we take the characteristics of theseingredients and our body utilizes the
(27:18):
mechanisms in the same way.
So despite the, you know, extreme environmentsthat we're going through, whether you just come
out of the military experiencing trauma, oryou're getting married and you're moving and
it's good sorts of stress, we have these highsand lows.
And so adaptogens, I just think, are sopowerful.
And one thing that I love if you're aLifeSeasons user is any of our formulas that
(27:39):
have sort of this stimulant effect.
So tooth caffeine.
We have our Nitro-T, our metabolism formula,our energy formula.
Any of these formulas with some sort ofstimulant will always be offset with adaptogen
because not only is it calming your nervoussystem, it's balancing out the negative effect
of the caffeine.
So I love that you incorporated this.
(27:59):
You also have, you know, what, cordyceps,lion's mane, turkey tail, chaga.
Any other kind of standout points on any ofthose?
Yeah.
So, I mean, all those that you just—first ofall, that was an excellent explanation.
I love what you said, and I didn't know thatabout them being grown in these extreme
climates.
So that's a really cool tidbit.
But I would say, that list that you kind of ranthrough—chaga, reishi, lion's mane,
(28:25):
cordyceps—those are all in the, like, mushroomcategory.
So they're adaptogenic mushrooms, functionalmushrooms, sugruent mushrooms, medicinal
mushrooms.
You might hear them being called, but yes,adaptogens are actually a larger umbrella that
includes other stuff beyond just mushrooms.
So some other like in our Moonlight Chai Latte,I think I actually have a bag back here
(28:47):
somewhere.
I think this guy.
So this right here is sort of like ourformulated—it's like a chai latte mix kind of
formulated for nighttime.
I like to add it to coffee because it makes itlike a kind of like a dirty chai, but it has
reishi, but it also has chamomile, jujube, andpolygala, which is like Chinese red date and
(29:09):
another one.
But they're other adaptogens that are hypnoticand help your body kind of adapt to those
stressors.
Right?
I love that.
I didn't know you created some of those.
I saw the coffee, but that's so cool to be ableto—so is that, like, just a powder form, mix it
into, like, hot water?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So I have like that.
I have a hot cocoa.
That's the same thing.
(29:29):
So mushroom hot cocoa, and then I have amatcha, which I've kind of been starting to get
into matcha lately too, which is nice becauseit's it's actually not a caffeine.
It's an L-theanine.
So, it's just a slightly different energymolecule, but it has a little bit more of that,
like, sustained energy over a long time and notquite the, like, peak and crash.
So people are pretty into it, especially ifthey're not into coffee these days.
(29:53):
And you can make it sweeter and stuff likethat.
So it's actually, like, been fun exploring,like, a new breakfast beverage drink that I can
get into.
You know?
I'm I'm gonna put you on the spot because I'venever heard and maybe I've totally looked at
this wrong.
I always thought matcha had caffeine, but itjust has the L-theanine in there, which
counteracts.
(30:14):
You might be correct.
Sorry to put you on the spot.
No.
No.
No.
That's totally fine.
Thank you.
If that is the truth, which it probably is,then, we'll go with that because, yeah, I would
And it's Yeah.
It's probably a lower level.
Lower than for sure.
Yes.
It has less, but it also has the antioxidants,and then it has the L-theanine.
And that's why so many individuals can consumematcha, but they can't do so let let's see.
(30:38):
It's a powdered green tea that contains 19 to44 milligrams of caffeine per gram, or so 38 to
176 milligrams per cup.
But the thing is even though it hassignificantly less, you're having the added
benefit of L-theanine.
And so that's kind of what I was touching upon.
Right.
With some of our formulations, as if any sortof stimulant, you have some of the like,
(31:00):
sometimes when I'm drinking coffee, we have aformula called Anxiety.
It's our stress support, and it hasashwagandha, L-theanine, theobromine,
magnesium, GABA.
And so I'll take the two of them togetherbecause then I just have that negative effect,
kind of what you're doing, putting all intoone.
And that's a great combo that you said,ashwagandha and all those.
That's nice.
Yeah.
Love ashwagandha.
(31:20):
But, yeah, that's exactly what's happening isthat, you know, we're offsetting with those
ingredients.
Do you have any kind of future productcreations or any other adaptogens you're
looking to explore, you're starting toresearch, or is that kind of, like, under
wraps?
No.
No.
I mean, nothing really under wraps.
So my focus for 2024, 2025 has been a lot ofpursuing a business-to-business approach,
(31:51):
finding other people, like cafes that want toserve our products, in terms of, like, the
powders and stuff like that.
Like, we have a few now, a couple in Vegas, acouple here in San Diego, and they make them
back with the steamed milk and latte art, andit looks super nice.
So finding more avenues that way, but inaddition to that, we've been doing some white
(32:12):
labeling and finding that we do customformulation.
That's been really fun.
So we'll talk to somebody, let's say they own acoffee shop or a coffee brand or some sort of
brand, like a health and wellness brand.
They wanna get into adaptogen coffee, andthey're like, and I'm like, okay.
Well, this is what you know, these are theproducts that I offer, and they're like, okay.
(32:33):
But we really look at we want we want this manymilligrams of this mushroom, and we also wanna
add this, and we want it to be in this form.
You know?
What I've kinda found is that we can do customformulation.
You know?
Oh, it's Valentine's Day.
We want to do a rose lavender latte adaptogendeal.
We can do that.
You know?
What's hard for me is I I'm like an idea guy,and I like I love the, like, product
(32:57):
development, like, side of things, but, youknow, that's all that's like one-third of the
battle.
Then the rest of it is how you you gotta makeit.
You gotta market it.
You gotta sell it.
You gotta store the inventory, you gotta do allthis other stuff.
So it's it's easy for me to get distracted bynew shiny objects and kinda chase them.
And so on the DTC side, I'm kind of trying tofocus on these, you know, six SKUs pretty much
(33:22):
and get those going.
But on the business-to-business side, I want todo a ton of different, you know, custom
formulations and explore, you know, whatcustomers are looking for and then see about
creating that.
But,
Fantastic.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
White label's a big thing that I'm learningabout too.
And for those of you who are listening, it'spretty much, you know, if you are a company,
(33:43):
it's being able to put your brand's label onthe product, and another company creates it for
you.
And so, you're using all the knowledge and, youknow, scientific experts that are creating
whatever formulation or product, and thenyou're kind of representing it as your brand.
One that I'd love to explore too is tell us alittle bit more about your podcast, the Mind
(34:06):
Body Mushroom, what you discuss on there, kindof what that platform looks like for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, podcasting, I really kinda got intoit, and we were mentioning this a little bit on
the preshow that I got into podcasting as beinga guest on podcasts, trying to tell my story,
promote my brands, just grow my audience, and,you know, find like-minded individuals.
(34:32):
In doing that, it kind of occurred to me that Ireally like podcasts and podcasting and that
having my own platform would be a goodopportunity to do all those same things as well
as bring on people to have conversations that Imight not otherwise, you know, have them.
And what we like to talk about is, you know,I've been in this balance of like trying to
(34:58):
stay in very niche and trying to be like, okay,we talked about adaptogens, functional
mushrooms, holistic health, the science behindthat, etcetera, but also I want it to be an
organic free-flowing interesting conversationwith people.
So I think the intersection, what it's kind ofbecoming is the intersection of, you know,
(35:23):
holistic health, wellness, the science aroundall of that, along with human stories and just
people's own, you know, how they interface withhealth, wellness, managing stress, you know,
building a business, growing a family, doingwhatever it is that they're doing, and sort of
what, like, tools, techniques, and tactics thatthey've been able to implement, you know, to
(35:46):
live a holistic life.
So it's a little bit of all those things, but,you know, just trying to I really wanted to
provide value for people because I've beensteeped in this stew for six years now, and so
you kind of assume that everyone is likesomewhat close to your level of knowledge or
(36:08):
like you can say things and what you realizeis, some of the people who would really benefit
from your product or you really want to reach,they don't understand anything you are saying
right now.
And so you need to figure out, you know, whereto meet them where they're at and start
providing that value so that they know, like,and trust you.
(36:29):
And know, like, and trust me—that's where Iwant to be before I try getting you to buy
anything because then that's the easy part.
You know?
If you know me, you like me, and you trust me,getting to buying something from you is easy.
Absolutely.
I love that.
Very cool.
Is there anything I know we've kind of tappedinto a few different categories today, whether
(36:49):
we're talking military adaptogens, coffee, kindof the shift between the traditional medical
model versus holistic model.
Is there anything that you wanted to bring up,that you feel like listeners should hear before
we wrap up for today?
Yeah.
Sure.
I mean, I can I'll think of something realquick.
(37:09):
I think some of the challenges that I stilldeal with because it's you know, you wanna go
on to podcasts and you wanna present yourselfas, like, I'm an expert.
Like, I figured something out.
You know?
That's why, you know, you should ask me becauseI figured it out.
And, you know, I'm figuring it out is how Iwould maybe put it.
There's some aspects that I have figured outand I have hard days too.
(37:32):
I have days where I'm like, man, you know, theweight of the world is on my shoulders.
It feels like nothing I'm doing is working andI'm very hard on myself.
I definitely am, I will like, you need to getback to work, do this, as opposed to like, hey,
(37:53):
it's okay, you just need an off day.
Field.
And so I'm personally working on, being alittle bit easier on myself and just sort of,
like, accepting that, like, I'm exactly where Ineed to be.
This is I'm doing everything that I need to do.
I'm putting in the work, you know, just likeyou said.
See how easily I disregard my input?
(38:17):
You know what I'm saying?
I'm like, oh, I got lucky, and I did get lucky.
I'm very lucky, but I did put in the work.
And I think that's for anyone dealing withanything.
Don't forget to give yourself credit and goeasy on yourself, and don't be overwhelmed by
the totality of what it is that you're doing.
(38:37):
There's a saying in the military in theseprograms, you know, like, how do you eat an
elephant?
One bite at a time.
You will freak out if you zoom out too far andrealize how small you are or how hard all of
this is, but if you can just get through today,get to lunch, get that next interview, get
(38:58):
that, you know, that's these little incrementalgoals.
That's how, you know, when you look back andyou see they're talking about podcasting
earlier, you look back and you're like, wow.
I've really grown a lot in those first coupleof episodes.
Now you're 100 episodes later, and you see howmuch you've learned and how much better you
have become.
And so just taking those moments to giveyourself credit and go easy on yourself and,
(39:21):
yeah, that's something I'm dealing with.
I love that.
I think the elephant kind of phrase, I'vealways said that too.
I think that's a big part, and there was aseason where I hit rock bottom.
And I remember it's funny.
I was just on a podcast sharing my story andkind of my journey.
And I think she asked me something like, whenyou were in the depths of it, how did you find
(39:43):
hope in the future?
And I said, to be honest, when I was in thedepth of it, the future wasn't even on my
radar.
It was minute by minute.
How am I gonna survive the next hour?
And so it's a spectrum for individuals, andit's a journey to get to there of, like, okay.
Let me think about the future.
But at that point, it was not the future.
It was, like, the smallest bite that I couldtake of, like, alright.
I'm gonna take this small little chunk becauseit can feel so overwhelming, so paralyzing,
(40:08):
whatever you are going through.
And, again, I think everybody's gonnaexperience some really difficult seasons of
life, and that's why I think resilience is soimportant.
That's why I think the things that you learn inthe military, like, my favorite genre of films,
it's funny.
It's I don't like romcoms.
I don't like chick flicks.
I don't like comedies, which I know is weird.
I like war.
I call it, like, I like only tan movies.
(40:30):
Like, if it's based in Afghanistan, if it's,like, there's dirt scenes, there's military.
I like prison gangs, and I like cartoons.
Like, it's the weirdest spectrum.
I love it.
But I
love just the resiliency and the grit that somany fighters and soldiers have and to be able
to take that mindset over.
And there is a place in a role, and I am asuper empath, so I feel deeply, but there has
(40:55):
to come a time when you're feeling so deeply,you just get stuck and you ruminate in the
heaviness of life, and you have to move forwardof, like, okay.
I can feel, but what's my next step?
And that's, you know, been my journey, and Ithink that's part of this resiliency of, like,
let's build this grit.
Let's pill build this toughness, one, so thatwe can come to a stable, healthy place that so
(41:17):
that we can help others, which is exactly whatyou're
doing.
100%.
You know, it's just part of this dream.
It it is.
Absolutely.
And and, you know, when when can I say shit?
Is that okay?
I won't when when shoot hits the fan, you know,you kinda fall back on your training.
(41:37):
You know what I mean?
Like, you lose executive function when you arein these high-stress periods.
So and what I kinda mean by that as a metaphoris that when your life is when you're in these
chapters of your life that are extremelystressful, you know, what what are your
processes?
Like, you know, if you are like, hey.
(41:58):
It's I'm gonna drink a bottle of wine tonight,and we're gonna party because I'm stressed.
You know, that's gonna have negative feedbackloops, and it's gonna spiral you in a certain
direction.
If you're like, hey.
I'm really stressed right now.
I'm gonna go on a walk.
I'm gonna go, you know, touch the ocean.
I'm gonna go, you know, spend some time with mykids or go you know what I mean?
Like, if if your tactics are constructive andthat's what you fall back on in those moments
(42:25):
of stress, it's going to you're gonna get outof there.
Whereas if if you fall back on self-destructivehabits, it's gonna move you in the other
direction.
So that's part of it too.
Totally.
You know, I wasn't expecting to go in thisdirection, but I'm curious for those listening
who may be veterans.
Maybe they're, I don't know, coming from myshow or coming from you, and they are in the
(42:48):
process of transitioning out.
They're feeling the heaviness.
They're currently on medications.
They wanna go to the bottle or the pills.
They feel overwhelmed.
They feel a lack of hope.
Clearly, you have this mentality that hasshifted you out of this, this kind of growth
mindset.
But what sort of advice would you have forthese individuals?
Again, it's a full spectrum.
It's a journey.
But what would you say to them?
(43:10):
Totally.
Yes, it's a journey.
It's individualistic, but what I would say isfind your community because there are veterans
in every state.
There are veteran health groups in every state,nonprofits that are doing things.
Like, in San Diego, we donate to anorganization called One More Wave.
They take veterans and teach them how to surf.
(43:30):
They supply them with surf equipment.
You know?
But I've gone on many of these myself.
I've done a ski trip in Durango that, like,they teach you how to ski and especially
adaptive skiing if you have some sort ofdisability.
You know?
There's, this last weekend, there was at theSEAL Future Foundation.
They had a shoot, so that was just like over inthe greater Temecula area.
(43:53):
They brought a bunch of people out there, setup targets, and, you know, had all the so there
are just reach out.
Don't be alone.
You know, misery loves company.
So find other people that, you know, you cancommiserate with and can hold you up.
And, you know, I feel closer to the militaryand veteran community now than I did even when
(44:15):
I was in, and it's because it's just like yousaid.
You know?
Like, if you want to get out of your own head,get into somebody else's.
And if you're sitting there feeling sorry foryourself and, like, woe is me.
You know?
I was so great.
I used to be able to do all this stuff, and nowI'm broken.
Like, okay.
Yeah.
That is gonna be your reality.
You know?
But if you're like, hey.
(44:36):
I'm you know, that chapter's ended, and now mynew chapter is I need to go out there, and I
need to change people's lives and do somethingpositive and, you know, then that's gonna be
your life.
June 2023 of last year, I got sepsis.
It was like a random thing.
I had an infection that spread to my blood, andI thought I was just sick for about a week.
(44:57):
I was throwing up every day, and then I endedup going to the hospital, and they're like,
thank God you came in.
You have sepsis.
Like, you were, like, hours away from septicshock.
This would have been a real, like, you could'vedied.
And I was in the hospital for, like, four days.
It was awful.
But looking back, the four days prior to that,I, you know, took my girlfriend on a trip to
thank her for something that she had done forme.
(45:19):
I was at a military surf competition where weset up and did free coffee and, you know, if I
had died right then, I was thinking about thisin the bed.
I was like, if I had died right then, that thelast five days of my life would be exactly what
I want my legacy to be.
You know?
That I cared about my community, that I was outthere putting my money where my mouth was.
(45:43):
You know?
I cared about my family.
I did things for other people.
And, you know, like, yeah, that's the type ofperson that I wanna be, and that's all you can
really ask for, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's incredible.
And just your mentality on life and yourperspective to help heal yourself so that you
can help make an impact on the world, I think,is pretty outstanding and, you know, something
(46:06):
to very much be proud of because I've had many,many conversations with people, especially
people who have gone through the wringer, andit's not as common to have this sort of
mindset.
And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thingto kind of have your foundation as, I'm lucky.
I need to work on appreciating the things thatI go through.
I think that might be a little bit morehumbling, you know, than the opposite of, like,
(46:30):
well, look at everything I've done.
I think your journey is, like, a much morehealthy one.
But just incredible.
The products that you've created, the livesthat you're transforming, the, you know, the
work that you're doing within your community.
I very much feel fulfilled from thisconversation.
I hope others have learned information, youknow, and kind of I know we've talked a little
(46:52):
bit about your platforms, but where can peoplefind more about your coffee, the products,
where can they find you?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, my Instagram is at windandseacoffee.
That's windandseacoffee.
So there's no "d" in "and."
It's just the way the beach is spelled.
So wind and sea coffee, on Instagram, wind andsea coffee dot com, as the website.
(47:18):
We have a YouTube channel, just wind and seacoffee, YouTube.
Check me out on LinkedIn.
I also wanted to make a, coupon code for yourlisteners.
So, yeah, so, 25% off.
But do you wanna just tell me, like, what agood discount code is?
Let's do let's do wellness 25.
(47:39):
Okay.
Cool.
Wellness 25.
Yeah.
No.
No.
I don't think I did.
So, I will create that.
So, yeah, please, if you enjoyed the show, youwanna pick up anything, or even if you wanna
try a sample too because you're, like, a littleunsure, just reach out to me somehow, and,
yeah, I'll make sure you're taken care of.
But, thank you guys for listening to me if youmade it this far, and, yeah, look forward to
(48:04):
seeing your orders.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Well, thank you so much for being here, Niki.
I appreciate kind of just exploring thisconversation, and, I guess we'll chat soon.
Thank you, Jordan.
Alright.
Take care.
The holistic approach in my eyes is saying whydo you have this symptom?
If your blood pressure and cholesterol are highrather than coming in and treating your blood
pressure and cholesterol with a pill, let'slook at your diet.
What's your movement level and level ofactivity?
I was like, what if we can kind of habit stackand get them done while we're doing something
(00:22):
that we're already looking forward to doing orthat we don't need a reminder for.
I need to go out there and I need to changepeople's lives and do something positive and,
you know, then that's gonna be your life.
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to anotherepisode of Wellness for Life.
I'm your host Niki Wolfe, and today I'm excitedto welcome Jordan Ryan.
He is a wellness entrepreneur and former Navaland Marine special operations medic.
(00:46):
He's the owner of San Diego's firstadaptogen-infused coffee company and a leader
in the wellness industry.
He has an MBA and a Master of Supply ChainManagement.
He's turned his personal healing journey withplant medicine into a thriving business
specializing in adaptogens, CBD, and mushrooms,and he also hosts the podcast, the Mind Body
(01:08):
Mushroom, where he explores naturalalternatives and wellness.
Jordan, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you, Niki.
It's happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Absolutely.
Well, I first wanna say thank you for yourservice and what you've provided to this
country.
I'm a big supporter of our military and justthe sacrifices that they all make and you all
(01:29):
make, so I really appreciate that.
Of course.
It was a privilege, so I'm thankful for myopportunity to serve as well, but thank you for
recognizing it.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, I feel like that is kind of the perfectway to start out is understanding your
background because from my understanding ofwhat I've read and what I've heard, really,
this is kind of the genesis of what brought youinto this industry and looking into holistic
(01:52):
medicine to help heal your body because of someof the experiences that you went through with
the military or kind of the transition outside.
I'd love for you to kind of just open up andshare your background in the military and what
made that transition.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, I was enlisted in the Navy as amedic, a corpsman, and I worked within naval
(02:16):
and Marine special operations.
So, the Marine Corps has their, like, NavySEALs, which, like, the Marine Raider
battalions, and they draw all of their medicsfrom the Navy.
And so I, being a medic and wanting to work inspecial operations and kind of having been
trained to do so through my time before theNavy and then entering, that was sort of the
(02:39):
field that I went into.
And, it was a very physically demanding job.
You're doing a ton of rucking with weight onyour back, long ocean swims, a bunch of stuff
in the pool, treading with, like, bricks, doingstuff underwater, buddy tows, land navigation,
(03:01):
basic reconnaissance, all these different, sortof very physical skills, and I enjoyed it very
much.
I enjoyed kind of approaching it from a medicalstandpoint of, like, you're the guy that if
when, you know, stuff hits the fan, you know,it's you gotta be the guy who's in charge of
(03:24):
this and triaging patients and getting them tosafety and, you know, addressing all the stuff.
So, I really liked that aspect of my job.
Unfortunately, in training, I got injured.
I injured my back, had a really bad backinjury, horrible sciatica, could barely walk,
(03:45):
couldn't stand, couldn't sit, sleepinghorribly, and it totally sidelined my career in
this profession.
So, you know, I was moving in a certaindirection, and now all of a sudden, I was the
guy that, you know, couldn't go on the ruckruns, couldn't do any of the things.
You know, always had to go to appointments, hadto do that sort of, that type of stuff.
(04:08):
So, on top of the physical symptoms of pain,discomfort, you know, radiculopathy, all the
nerve stuff, etc., there was also a ton ofpsychological sort of, like, anxiety,
depression, wrestling with, you know, youridentity, your ego, you know, how others are
(04:31):
perceiving you now, what that means, youfeeling like a failure, all of this stuff
that's sort of like on top of, you know, theuncertainty of, hey.
Are you ever gonna get better?
So, my initial kind of path was, well, I gottado what I gotta do to get back in the fight and
get back to training and do what I needed, youknow, get back with my team.
(04:53):
So I was going down a very Western medicalapproach, a lot of pills, injections,
surgeries, and I wasn't getting a lot better.
It was becoming clear kind of around this timethat my career was in question in the long
term, as well as my health and all these otherthings that I sort of talked about.
(05:15):
And that was like a pivotal moment for mebecause my mindset sort of changed from, you
know, how do I get better and get back to doingmy job to, hey, this might be some version of
my life managing these symptoms.
And if that's the case, how do I do sosustainably and naturally such that I'm not
(05:38):
just shoveling handfuls of pills in my mouthevery day and dealing with all of these second-
and third-order effects from the medications,the injections, you know, being out of
commission for surgery, doing the recovery,etc.
And that's what kind of got me exploringholistic wellness, plant medicine, surf
therapy, and kind of kicked off the nextchapter of my life.
(06:03):
That's incredible.
I appreciate you sharing that, and I just Idon't I hear stories.
I've never I don't think I've ever, like,interviewed somebody from the military, but
I've heard stories of, you know, professionalathletes where they get this injury and the
amount of identity attached to them.
I can only imagine if it's at that level, ifnot more, from the experiences that you go
(06:25):
through your, you know, the fight for thecountry and just the willingness to do
something greater than yourself and having tobe pulled from that kind of almost out of your
own control.
So I can imagine that the psychological impacthas to be incredible to go through and, you
(06:48):
know, just, I guess, commend you for being ableto work through that.
And I'm sure there's still moments, you know,where you gotta fight this battle, but I do
think we all, you know, carry a cross, andthere's certain things that we have to
overcome.
And now look at what you've been able to creategoing through those experiences.
I'm not trying to, like, I just, like, I thinkabout how deep and impactful that must have
(07:11):
been and how you were able to transform thatstory and create now this company and being
able to help others.
So you mentioned a few, and we'll get into kindof, you know, a little bit of the difference
between military medicine and holisticmedicine.
But I just love to hear a little bit of some ofyour other approaches.
You mentioned surf therapy.
(07:33):
What were some of the other modalities that youused to heal?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, you said a lot there.
That was really good.
I'll, I'll, I wanna hop into some modalities,but I just want to say one thing that's kind of
related to this was starting Wind and Sea andkind of figuring out how to channel what I was
(07:53):
learning and discovering for myself and makingthat my mission to create something that I
could then use to impact my community and alsoeducate and create products like that.
It was when Wind and Sea became my lifeline, itwas my chance to not feel like a failure, not
feel like I was broken, you know, to go and dosomething hard again that was meaningful and
(08:18):
mission-driven and, you know, so it really in alot of ways, like, I attribute, you know, my
successful transition into civilian life withentrepreneurship and really trying to build
something and come at it with purpose.
Was that something that was kind of taught toyou too?
I mean, I'm just curious.
(08:39):
You know, I'm hoping that the military, and Iguess it depends on, you know, who you work
with, that offers, okay, going to therapy orutilizing these tools, or is that kind of more
of a familial experience of, like, okay.
Let's dive into this.
Like, how did you Sure.
I don't think everybody can make thattransition.
My husband has worked in the addiction field,and he's kind of probably gonna be going to
(09:03):
working with vets.
And so, like, that's something that's big onour heart.
But, you know, I don't know if that's theapproach that everybody takes.
And so where did that inspiration come to makethat switch?
Sure.
Yeah.
I mean, I would say, you know, the militarytries to kind of, they have these transition
programs, like TAPS is one of them, and they'resort of checking the box of like, yeah, we're,
(09:28):
you know, we're showing you how to make aresume and kind of, you know, we're trying to
help you transition.
There's a lot of stuff for veterans out there.
I mean, if you want to work in the federalgovernment or a state government or anything
like that, you get preferential hiring.
So you do learn about some of these things, butstill, I do think that the general consensus
(09:50):
with a lot of people when they get out is it'ssort of like, all right, thanks for your time,
like there's the door, best of luck to you.
And you don't really know all of the details ofyour benefits, which was something while I was
in grad school.
It was another great honor to be able to dothis.
I worked in the military veteran office, and Iwas helping transitioning students, like, hey,
(10:12):
navigate your GI Bill and all of your educationbenefits because I got three master's degrees
for free because of the GI Bill, and it waslife-changing.
And that was a really important transition timefor me as well because, I mean, I was in
medicine, you know, and I'm doing this job.
I was thinking I might go into medicine, like,right?
(10:34):
That would make sense.
So I'm looking at, you know, okay, nursingdegrees, physical therapy, firefighting, all
these other things and, you know, thatultimately was not the route that I went down
for a number of reasons, but fortunately I hadthis, like, grace period where I was doing
something constructive, I was back in school, Iwas getting, you know, my graduate degrees, and
(10:58):
I was figuring, what do I wanna do?
What do I wanna do?
You know?
I knew that there was, you know, while I was inyou don't love no.
I don't think anyone loves the military whilethey're in.
You know?
It's kind of it's something that you, like,appreciate more in retrospect than while you're
there doing it.
That's your David Goggins?
(11:19):
Yeah.
You know, he was actually one.
Dude, he was one of so he was one of myinstructors in Great Lakes up in Chicago, and
he's the real deal, dude.
He is that guy 24/7, one of the mostinspirational people I've ever met.
It is wild.
But, yeah, I mean, I think for most people,right, they're kind of like it's something you
(11:39):
look back in retrospect, and that was somethingthat at the time, you know, looking back, I was
able to really see that it doesn't matter whatyour job was.
You could be, you know, admin personnel, acook, you know, everybody is making sacrifices.
Everybody is enduring hardship and dealing withdifficulties transitioning when they get out,
(12:05):
and there's a very big lack of education interms of some of these more holistic modalities
out there.
Living in San Diego, California, you know, it'svery cultural to see yoga classes on the beach
and, you know, a sound bath clinic or, youknow, plant medicine retreats and all these
(12:28):
different things.
You see them all around.
You see them on Instagram.
You might know somebody who's doing it.
So it's easy to find, even if you're atransitioning veteran, and not feel like it's a
weird thing to do, you know?
But some people, they get out of the military,maybe they're injured, maybe they're not, and
they go back to another state, another placethat maybe does not have that type of culture,
(12:50):
and you are subject to just like the VA, youknow, what they're gonna give you, alcohol and
easy access to handguns.
So, I mean, it makes sense why veterans aredisproportionately likely to commit suicide.
The number is, like, 22 veterans a day.
I think it's even higher than that now, youknow, which is crazy.
(13:12):
And that's that was just something that I kindanoticed that, like, alright.
I'm very fortunate to, a, be open-minded enoughto want to explore these things, understanding
that, like, hey, you know, okay, John Rambo isnot your tomorrow.
Right?
Like, you need to that's not your tomorrow.
(13:32):
You need to figure out what that next chapteris gonna be, and some guys are not able to do
that.
They are gonna hold on to that previousidentity of themselves because they don't know
what their next version is.
So I was very lucky in a lot of ways, but I sawthat not everyone had all those resources and
not everyone had that same mindset.
(13:54):
And, I became very passionate about trying tocreate a company that made something cool and
good and that I liked and that I used, butwhose underlying mission was really trying to
change the culture within the veteran communityto be more open and accepting of these other
modalities.
Fantastic.
You know, I just wanna...
of these other modalities.
Fantastic.
You know, I just wanna bring something up.
(14:15):
You mentioned lucky, but I have to say thatthere could be luck involved, but you also put
in the work and the time and the energy to dothat.
And I, you know, I don't think everybody iswilling to do that, and you're also putting
your energy towards making a difference inother people's lives.
One thing that I firmly believe, especially ifyou struggle with mental health of any aspect,
(14:35):
is that if you wanna get out of your head, getinto somebody else's heart, make somebody else
important.
And so what you're doing is that is a way toshift and work through our trauma, and that's
what you're doing.
You're putting in the work because I thinkthere's a balance of, like, the empathy and the
feeling, but we also have to take action.
And so I clearly see that.
(14:56):
And so maybe you say luck's involved, but Ijust wanna give you a little bit more props
that you are putting in a lot of that effort.
Well, thank you.
So let's explore kind of the differencesbetween the military medicine and holistic
medicine.
And I do believe
For sure.
You know, I've been in the hospital since I was3 years old.
It's just in the ER.
The other everything's
Oh, no.
But, you know, I have to use Western medicinesometimes, and there is a purpose for that.
(15:20):
If my leg's falling off, don't rub aloe vera onit.
Like, get me everything that it needs, butthere's a role and I think foundational support
to holistic medicine.
So, one, I'd love to explore the differencebetween those in your eyes, but also really
what created that transition.
I mean, coming from the military and beingdoused with all these pills, did you just walk
(15:42):
into a health food store and somebody told youlike, how did that transition happen?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally.
Okay.
So, first part of that question is kinda what'sthe difference, and I think you kinda nailed it
there with, you know, if their leg's fallingoff, yeah, you don't want someone to come and
rub aloe vera on it.
Like, thank God for Western medicine, thetechnology, the advances.
(16:02):
I mean, doctors spend—they dedicate theirentire lives to this practice and to, you know,
continuously learning and improving and, youknow, you having a good health outcome.
So there's absolutely a place for Westernmedicine.
I would say in my eyes, the biggest differencebetween Western medicine and what we can call,
(16:23):
like, a holistic approach is that Westernmedicine is very focused on identifying your
symptoms and then from there backing into adiagnosis and then treating the symptoms of the
diagnosis.
And it's very like, you know, zooming intowherever the problem is and then surgically
(16:46):
kind of treating that problem.
And, hey, maybe there's another, you know,there's a second-order problem that comes on
because of that, like a side effect, like aperfect very common example, let's say, is like
taking anti-inflammatory drugs like NSAIDs,ibuprofen.
So you take a lot of NSAIDs, hey, you'redealing with chronic pain, so you're taking
(17:07):
anti-inflammatory to help deal with the pain.
Okay.
That's great.
But now it's like wearing through the lining ofyour stomach, so now you're starting to develop
acid reflux.
So you go into the doctor and they're like,don't worry.
Well, we got a pill for acid reflux too.
And then you see how the and we all know it.
We've all been there, you know, or, you know,hey, I take Adderall because I need to focus
(17:29):
more, but then I can't sleep very well.
So their doctor prescribed me Ambien so I canget to sleep.
But then, you know, I have a hard time reallywaking up because I'm all conked out from the
and now I take more out of it.
And so we create these sort of that's theWestern medical approach.
There's a place for it.
Thank God for it, but, you know, the holisticapproach in my eyes is saying, why do you have
(17:52):
this symptom?
You know, great.
We see that you have this, but, you know, ifyour blood pressure and cholesterol are high
rather than coming in and treating your bloodpressure and cholesterol with a pill, let's
look at, you know, your diet, your, you know,what's your movement level and level of
activity, you know, what external stressors areyou dealing with in your life?
(18:15):
You know, how do we zoom out and look at thecontext in which you reside and then start
treating the symptoms that way?
And that to me, A, just kind of makes a littlebit more sense, but also I feel like,
especially for stuff that's chronic, you'remanaging it.
(18:39):
Like hopefully, whatever you have, you can makeit go away.
You know what I mean?
That is ideal.
That is the best-case scenario.
But there are a lot of conditions that peoplehave that are chronic.
And if they're chronic, my perspective was howdo I manage this with doing the least harm in
the long run to my health.
(19:00):
You know?
Absolutely.
And I think the purpose too is, let's get tothe root of what's going on, and let's stop
putting a Band-Aid on some of these things.
You know, I don't know if you've heard it.
Despite what anybody's political view is, and Ihaven't watched the whole thing, but RFK and
Casey and Kelly Means and just this whole groupthat just did kind of a speech on changing the
(19:23):
way we approach health care and
Yeah.
You know?
Huge.
What is currently going on now and what cantransform and move the needle for our health is
tremendous, and it's really talking a lot aboutthis stuff that there are so many chronic
conditions that can actually be healed withnatural support and remedies.
(19:44):
I just did an episode.
I think it'll air—well, it'll be aired probablybefore this goes live—but it's really talking
about, you know, acute disease versus chronicdiseases.
And when we are, to your point of NSAIDs andall these different things, when we are
constantly suppressing acute illnesses, thatcan actually—there are studies that show that
it can lead to some of the chronic.
(20:05):
So how do we utilize holistic modalities toheal and prevent some of these other ones?
Now we're gonna dive into a few specificadaptogens, but before we do that, tell us a
little bit more about your company.
And I really wanna, you know, hone in on thecoffee and what you do with the coffee that
(20:25):
makes it so unique, so powerful, and so healingfor, specifically, our nervous system,
especially in regards to caffeinated coffee.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, that actually is a perfect kind of segueinto the second part of your question, which
was kind of like, how did I discover thistransition?
Right?
So, I, you know, dealing with all of theseissues and was also dealing with a lot of side
(20:49):
effects from my medication, and I went toundergrad college at the University of Oregon.
So we were cannabis 101 was like my freshmanyear.
I was very familiar with that plant medicine.
But I was still in the military, and so Icouldn't use THC products.
I didn't want to jeopardize kind of like mybenefits and all this stuff.
(21:15):
So I was, like, let me try CBD.
I hadn't really tried it very much, but I knewthat it had, you know, many of the same
benefits.
It wasn't federally illegal.
They weren't testing for it, and it wasn'tagainst any rules.
So I was trying that and was getting benefit,mostly with my anxiety, sleep, stress type
(21:37):
stuff, but there's a lot of anti-inflammatoryproperties to CBD as well.
But, so that was kind of like our firstproduct.
And then I started exploring more into themedicinal mushroom space just, you know,
because I don't believe in like silver bullets,like, you know, this one plant, you know, this
(21:57):
one pill, this one thing.
Like, I really do think part of holisticapproach is supplementation is an aspect.
You know, lifestyle, all these things are anaspect.
So there's a number of things.
And within supplementation, even there, it'slike, okay, CBD, we like it.
Great.
But that may not be the only thing out there.
You know?
So I started looking into some of thesemedicinal mushrooms, seeing that there was a
(22:21):
lot of impact on inflammation, nerveregeneration, cognitive support, mood and
stress support, and I was like, well, thatsounds great.
Maybe I could figure out how to infuse ourcoffee with these supplements.
Because the idea of getting into coffee kind ofbegan with I'm on board with these plant
(22:44):
medicines, these extra supplements, but I stillhave to remember to take them.
You know what I mean?
They're not going to do anything if they justsit in your pantry.
So I was like, what if we can kind of have itstack and get them done while we're doing
something that we're already looking forward todoing or that we don't need a reminder for?
And coffee just was like a natural sort ofobvious first thing I think about when I get
(23:04):
up.
I'm like, all right, it's my motivation to putmy feet on the ground.
This is all right, let's go make some coffee.
So if I can get coffee and get give me thesebenefits, now I'm getting the benefits and I
don't have to, like, think about it.
So that was kind of the transition to there.
Now diving into some of the kind of specificadaptogens with coffee that help regulate some
(23:26):
of the stress responses that so caffeine is astimulant, and it creates cortisol and
adrenaline spikes, and that's why you kind offeel wired and awake and alert.
But the half-life of caffeine is much longerthan the, like, feelings of the caffeine.
(23:50):
So what I mean by that you
off for
a sec.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was just gonna say if we can clarify what youmean by
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think a lot of us have heard of that, andmaybe it's like from my understanding, it's how
long the caffeine or the effect stays in yoursystem.
Yes.
But, yeah, if you
can No.
No.
That's it basically right there.
It's just so, your body is still processing thecaffeine for much longer than you are feeling
(24:19):
the effects of the caffeine.
So you may already have kind of hit that crashpoint of, like, all right, time for that next
cup, but your body is still processing it asthough we got plenty of caffeine.
We're still spiking adrenaline.
We're still spiking cortisol, and, you know,that's what might make you have a bad night's
(24:42):
sleep if you drink that 3 p.m.
cup of coffee or something like that.
So as I was learning more and more about thescience and kind of seeing how a lot of these
things interact, you know, caffeine and coffeeis actually one of the oldest plant medicines,
not oldest, but it's an OG plant medicine.
People understood if we take this plant, theseeds of this plant, and we roast them and then
(25:06):
we, you know, brew them with hot water and wedrink that, it gives us energy to do stuff, you
know?
And there's a lot of alkaloids in the coffeeplant that are good for nootropic, good for
your brain, they're good for your heart, etc.
So that's why sometimes you see these thingsthat are like, doctors say, drink three and a
half cups of coffee.
It's good for your heart, something like that.
(25:28):
Wouldn't do that just because there's a lot ofcaffeine, and it's kinda tough, but there are
benefits to caffeine.
So what I kinda discovered is, like, forexample, the reishi mushroom, which modulates
your HPA axis, which is, like, kind of thatadrenal, pituitary, thalamic area that kinda
creates that.
So what the reishi does is it comes in and justhelps modulate that, I guess, receptor.
(25:53):
Some of my language might be wrong.
I'm sorry if anyone feels free to correct me.
But that kind of reduces the big spike ofadrenaline and big spike of cortisol, and it
kind of, like, tamps them down a little bit,brings you back closer to homeostasis, which is
that feeling of, like, balance, like, okay.
Cool.
You know, I'm feeling good.
(26:14):
I don't feel stressed.
I don't feel brain fog.
I don't feel highs and lows.
I'm just, like, cruising.
You know?
Absolutely.
No, I think adaptogens are incredible.
And one thing that I think a lot of us and mostof my listeners are in the health, you know,
field.
They're supplement takers.
They probably heard of adaptogens, but I thinkit's pretty cool adaptogens get their name
because they adapt to the stressors in yourbody.
(26:35):
So, like, Jordan, if you wake up today andyou're super anxious and I wake up and I'm
exhausted, we both can take that sameadaptogen, and it's going to help bring us back
to equilibrium, which I think is incredible.
And I need to kind of explore the cultivationand the history of some of these plant
medicines because a lot of these adaptogens aregrown in—I mean, we're focusing on mushrooms,
(26:58):
but there's plenty of others—they're grown inextreme climates, altitudes, environments, and
they are able to thrive despite theirenvironment, despite being up way in the hills
or super hot weather, freezing cold weather,they can thrive.
And so we take the characteristics of theseingredients and our body utilizes the
(27:18):
mechanisms in the same way.
So despite the, you know, extreme environmentsthat we're going through, whether you just come
out of the military experiencing trauma, oryou're getting married and you're moving and
it's good sorts of stress, we have these highsand lows.
And so adaptogens, I just think, are sopowerful.
And one thing that I love if you're aLifeSeasons user is any of our formulas that
(27:39):
have sort of this stimulant effect.
So tooth caffeine.
We have our Nitro-T, our metabolism formula,our energy formula.
Any of these formulas with some sort ofstimulant will always be offset with adaptogen
because not only is it calming your nervoussystem, it's balancing out the negative effect
of the caffeine.
So I love that you incorporated this.
(27:59):
You also have, you know, what, cordyceps,lion's mane, turkey tail, chaga.
Any other kind of standout points on any ofthose?
Yeah.
So, I mean, all those that you just—first ofall, that was an excellent explanation.
I love what you said, and I didn't know thatabout them being grown in these extreme
climates.
So that's a really cool tidbit.
But I would say, that list that you kind of ranthrough—chaga, reishi, lion's mane,
(28:25):
cordyceps—those are all in the, like, mushroomcategory.
So they're adaptogenic mushrooms, functionalmushrooms, sugruent mushrooms, medicinal
mushrooms.
You might hear them being called, but yes,adaptogens are actually a larger umbrella that
includes other stuff beyond just mushrooms.
So some other like in our Moonlight Chai Latte,I think I actually have a bag back here
(28:47):
somewhere.
I think this guy.
So this right here is sort of like ourformulated—it's like a chai latte mix kind of
formulated for nighttime.
I like to add it to coffee because it makes itlike a kind of like a dirty chai, but it has
reishi, but it also has chamomile, jujube, andpolygala, which is like Chinese red date and
(29:09):
another one.
But they're other adaptogens that are hypnoticand help your body kind of adapt to those
stressors.
Right?
I love that.
I didn't know you created some of those.
I saw the coffee, but that's so cool to be ableto—so is that, like, just a powder form, mix it
into, like, hot water?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So I have like that.
I have a hot cocoa.
That's the same thing.
(29:29):
So mushroom hot cocoa, and then I have amatcha, which I've kind of been starting to get
into matcha lately too, which is nice becauseit's it's actually not a caffeine.
It's an L-theanine.
So, it's just a slightly different energymolecule, but it has a little bit more of that,
like, sustained energy over a long time and notquite the, like, peak and crash.
So people are pretty into it, especially ifthey're not into coffee these days.
(29:53):
And you can make it sweeter and stuff likethat.
So it's actually, like, been fun exploring,like, a new breakfast beverage drink that I can
get into.
You know?
I'm I'm gonna put you on the spot because I'venever heard and maybe I've totally looked at
this wrong.
I always thought matcha had caffeine, but itjust has the L-theanine in there, which
counteracts.
(30:14):
You might be correct.
Sorry to put you on the spot.
No.
No.
No.
That's totally fine.
Thank you.
If that is the truth, which it probably is,then, we'll go with that because, yeah, I would
And it's Yeah.
It's probably a lower level.
Lower than for sure.
Yes.
It has less, but it also has the antioxidants,and then it has the L-theanine.
And that's why so many individuals can consumematcha, but they can't do so let let's see.
(30:38):
It's a powdered green tea that contains 19 to44 milligrams of caffeine per gram, or so 38 to
176 milligrams per cup.
But the thing is even though it hassignificantly less, you're having the added
benefit of L-theanine.
And so that's kind of what I was touching upon.
Right.
With some of our formulations, as if any sortof stimulant, you have some of the like,
(31:00):
sometimes when I'm drinking coffee, we have aformula called Anxiety.
It's our stress support, and it hasashwagandha, L-theanine, theobromine,
magnesium, GABA.
And so I'll take the two of them togetherbecause then I just have that negative effect,
kind of what you're doing, putting all intoone.
And that's a great combo that you said,ashwagandha and all those.
That's nice.
Yeah.
Love ashwagandha.
(31:20):
But, yeah, that's exactly what's happening isthat, you know, we're offsetting with those
ingredients.
Do you have any kind of future productcreations or any other adaptogens you're
looking to explore, you're starting toresearch, or is that kind of, like, under
wraps?
No.
No.
I mean, nothing really under wraps.
So my focus for 2024, 2025 has been a lot ofpursuing a business-to-business approach,
(31:51):
finding other people, like cafes that want toserve our products, in terms of, like, the
powders and stuff like that.
Like, we have a few now, a couple in Vegas, acouple here in San Diego, and they make them
back with the steamed milk and latte art, andit looks super nice.
So finding more avenues that way, but inaddition to that, we've been doing some white
(32:12):
labeling and finding that we do customformulation.
That's been really fun.
So we'll talk to somebody, let's say they own acoffee shop or a coffee brand or some sort of
brand, like a health and wellness brand.
They wanna get into adaptogen coffee, andthey're like, and I'm like, okay.
Well, this is what you know, these are theproducts that I offer, and they're like, okay.
(32:33):
But we really look at we want we want this manymilligrams of this mushroom, and we also wanna
add this, and we want it to be in this form.
You know?
What I've kinda found is that we can do customformulation.
You know?
Oh, it's Valentine's Day.
We want to do a rose lavender latte adaptogendeal.
We can do that.
You know?
What's hard for me is I I'm like an idea guy,and I like I love the, like, product
(32:57):
development, like, side of things, but, youknow, that's all that's like one-third of the
battle.
Then the rest of it is how you you gotta makeit.
You gotta market it.
You gotta sell it.
You gotta store the inventory, you gotta do allthis other stuff.
So it's it's easy for me to get distracted bynew shiny objects and kinda chase them.
And so on the DTC side, I'm kind of trying tofocus on these, you know, six SKUs pretty much
(33:22):
and get those going.
But on the business-to-business side, I want todo a ton of different, you know, custom
formulations and explore, you know, whatcustomers are looking for and then see about
creating that.
But,
Fantastic.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
White label's a big thing that I'm learningabout too.
And for those of you who are listening, it'spretty much, you know, if you are a company,
(33:43):
it's being able to put your brand's label onthe product, and another company creates it for
you.
And so, you're using all the knowledge and, youknow, scientific experts that are creating
whatever formulation or product, and thenyou're kind of representing it as your brand.
One that I'd love to explore too is tell us alittle bit more about your podcast, the Mind
(34:06):
Body Mushroom, what you discuss on there, kindof what that platform looks like for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, podcasting, I really kinda got intoit, and we were mentioning this a little bit on
the preshow that I got into podcasting as beinga guest on podcasts, trying to tell my story,
promote my brands, just grow my audience, and,you know, find like-minded individuals.
(34:32):
In doing that, it kind of occurred to me that Ireally like podcasts and podcasting and that
having my own platform would be a goodopportunity to do all those same things as well
as bring on people to have conversations that Imight not otherwise, you know, have them.
And what we like to talk about is, you know,I've been in this balance of like trying to
(34:58):
stay in very niche and trying to be like, okay,we talked about adaptogens, functional
mushrooms, holistic health, the science behindthat, etcetera, but also I want it to be an
organic free-flowing interesting conversationwith people.
So I think the intersection, what it's kind ofbecoming is the intersection of, you know,
(35:23):
holistic health, wellness, the science aroundall of that, along with human stories and just
people's own, you know, how they interface withhealth, wellness, managing stress, you know,
building a business, growing a family, doingwhatever it is that they're doing, and sort of
what, like, tools, techniques, and tactics thatthey've been able to implement, you know, to
(35:46):
live a holistic life.
So it's a little bit of all those things, but,you know, just trying to I really wanted to
provide value for people because I've beensteeped in this stew for six years now, and so
you kind of assume that everyone is likesomewhat close to your level of knowledge or
(36:08):
like you can say things and what you realizeis, some of the people who would really benefit
from your product or you really want to reach,they don't understand anything you are saying
right now.
And so you need to figure out, you know, whereto meet them where they're at and start
providing that value so that they know, like,and trust you.
(36:29):
And know, like, and trust me—that's where Iwant to be before I try getting you to buy
anything because then that's the easy part.
You know?
If you know me, you like me, and you trust me,getting to buying something from you is easy.
Absolutely.
I love that.
Very cool.
Is there anything I know we've kind of tappedinto a few different categories today, whether
(36:49):
we're talking military adaptogens, coffee, kindof the shift between the traditional medical
model versus holistic model.
Is there anything that you wanted to bring up,that you feel like listeners should hear before
we wrap up for today?
Yeah.
Sure.
I mean, I can I'll think of something realquick.
(37:09):
I think some of the challenges that I stilldeal with because it's you know, you wanna go
on to podcasts and you wanna present yourselfas, like, I'm an expert.
Like, I figured something out.
You know?
That's why, you know, you should ask me becauseI figured it out.
And, you know, I'm figuring it out is how Iwould maybe put it.
There's some aspects that I have figured outand I have hard days too.
(37:32):
I have days where I'm like, man, you know, theweight of the world is on my shoulders.
It feels like nothing I'm doing is working andI'm very hard on myself.
I definitely am, I will like, you need to getback to work, do this, as opposed to like, hey,
(37:53):
it's okay, you just need an off day.
Field.
And so I'm personally working on, being alittle bit easier on myself and just sort of,
like, accepting that, like, I'm exactly where Ineed to be.
This is I'm doing everything that I need to do.
I'm putting in the work, you know, just likeyou said.
See how easily I disregard my input?
(38:17):
You know what I'm saying?
I'm like, oh, I got lucky, and I did get lucky.
I'm very lucky, but I did put in the work.
And I think that's for anyone dealing withanything.
Don't forget to give yourself credit and goeasy on yourself, and don't be overwhelmed by
the totality of what it is that you're doing.
(38:37):
There's a saying in the military in theseprograms, you know, like, how do you eat an
elephant?
One bite at a time.
You will freak out if you zoom out too far andrealize how small you are or how hard all of
this is, but if you can just get through today,get to lunch, get that next interview, get
(38:58):
that, you know, that's these little incrementalgoals.
That's how, you know, when you look back andyou see they're talking about podcasting
earlier, you look back and you're like, wow.
I've really grown a lot in those first coupleof episodes.
Now you're 100 episodes later, and you see howmuch you've learned and how much better you
have become.
And so just taking those moments to giveyourself credit and go easy on yourself and,
(39:21):
yeah, that's something I'm dealing with.
I love that.
I think the elephant kind of phrase, I'vealways said that too.
I think that's a big part, and there was aseason where I hit rock bottom.
And I remember it's funny.
I was just on a podcast sharing my story andkind of my journey.
And I think she asked me something like, whenyou were in the depths of it, how did you find
(39:43):
hope in the future?
And I said, to be honest, when I was in thedepth of it, the future wasn't even on my
radar.
It was minute by minute.
How am I gonna survive the next hour?
And so it's a spectrum for individuals, andit's a journey to get to there of, like, okay.
Let me think about the future.
But at that point, it was not the future.
It was, like, the smallest bite that I couldtake of, like, alright.
I'm gonna take this small little chunk becauseit can feel so overwhelming, so paralyzing,
(40:08):
whatever you are going through.
And, again, I think everybody's gonnaexperience some really difficult seasons of
life, and that's why I think resilience is soimportant.
That's why I think the things that you learn inthe military, like, my favorite genre of films,
it's funny.
It's I don't like romcoms.
I don't like chick flicks.
I don't like comedies, which I know is weird.
I like war.
I call it, like, I like only tan movies.
(40:30):
Like, if it's based in Afghanistan, if it's,like, there's dirt scenes, there's military.
I like prison gangs, and I like cartoons.
Like, it's the weirdest spectrum.
I love it.
But I
love just the resiliency and the grit that somany fighters and soldiers have and to be able
to take that mindset over.
And there is a place in a role, and I am asuper empath, so I feel deeply, but there has
(40:55):
to come a time when you're feeling so deeply,you just get stuck and you ruminate in the
heaviness of life, and you have to move forwardof, like, okay.
I can feel, but what's my next step?
And that's, you know, been my journey, and Ithink that's part of this resiliency of, like,
let's build this grit.
Let's pill build this toughness, one, so thatwe can come to a stable, healthy place that so
(41:17):
that we can help others, which is exactly whatyou're
doing.
100%.
You know, it's just part of this dream.
It it is.
Absolutely.
And and, you know, when when can I say shit?
Is that okay?
I won't when when shoot hits the fan, you know,you kinda fall back on your training.
(41:37):
You know what I mean?
Like, you lose executive function when you arein these high-stress periods.
So and what I kinda mean by that as a metaphoris that when your life is when you're in these
chapters of your life that are extremelystressful, you know, what what are your
processes?
Like, you know, if you are like, hey.
(41:58):
It's I'm gonna drink a bottle of wine tonight,and we're gonna party because I'm stressed.
You know, that's gonna have negative feedbackloops, and it's gonna spiral you in a certain
direction.
If you're like, hey.
I'm really stressed right now.
I'm gonna go on a walk.
I'm gonna go, you know, touch the ocean.
I'm gonna go, you know, spend some time with mykids or go you know what I mean?
Like, if if your tactics are constructive andthat's what you fall back on in those moments
(42:25):
of stress, it's going to you're gonna get outof there.
Whereas if if you fall back on self-destructivehabits, it's gonna move you in the other
direction.
So that's part of it too.
Totally.
You know, I wasn't expecting to go in thisdirection, but I'm curious for those listening
who may be veterans.
Maybe they're, I don't know, coming from myshow or coming from you, and they are in the
(42:48):
process of transitioning out.
They're feeling the heaviness.
They're currently on medications.
They wanna go to the bottle or the pills.
They feel overwhelmed.
They feel a lack of hope.
Clearly, you have this mentality that hasshifted you out of this, this kind of growth
mindset.
But what sort of advice would you have forthese individuals?
Again, it's a full spectrum.
It's a journey.
But what would you say to them?
(43:10):
Totally.
Yes, it's a journey.
It's individualistic, but what I would say isfind your community because there are veterans
in every state.
There are veteran health groups in every state,nonprofits that are doing things.
Like, in San Diego, we donate to anorganization called One More Wave.
They take veterans and teach them how to surf.
(43:30):
They supply them with surf equipment.
You know?
But I've gone on many of these myself.
I've done a ski trip in Durango that, like,they teach you how to ski and especially
adaptive skiing if you have some sort ofdisability.
You know?
There's, this last weekend, there was at theSEAL Future Foundation.
They had a shoot, so that was just like over inthe greater Temecula area.
(43:53):
They brought a bunch of people out there, setup targets, and, you know, had all the so there
are just reach out.
Don't be alone.
You know, misery loves company.
So find other people that, you know, you cancommiserate with and can hold you up.
And, you know, I feel closer to the militaryand veteran community now than I did even when
(44:15):
I was in, and it's because it's just like yousaid.
You know?
Like, if you want to get out of your own head,get into somebody else's.
And if you're sitting there feeling sorry foryourself and, like, woe is me.
You know?
I was so great.
I used to be able to do all this stuff, and nowI'm broken.
Like, okay.
Yeah.
That is gonna be your reality.
You know?
But if you're like, hey.
(44:36):
I'm you know, that chapter's ended, and now mynew chapter is I need to go out there, and I
need to change people's lives and do somethingpositive and, you know, then that's gonna be
your life.
June 2023 of last year, I got sepsis.
It was like a random thing.
I had an infection that spread to my blood, andI thought I was just sick for about a week.
(44:57):
I was throwing up every day, and then I endedup going to the hospital, and they're like,
thank God you came in.
You have sepsis.
Like, you were, like, hours away from septicshock.
This would have been a real, like, you could'vedied.
And I was in the hospital for, like, four days.
It was awful.
But looking back, the four days prior to that,I, you know, took my girlfriend on a trip to
thank her for something that she had done forme.
(45:19):
I was at a military surf competition where weset up and did free coffee and, you know, if I
had died right then, I was thinking about thisin the bed.
I was like, if I had died right then, that thelast five days of my life would be exactly what
I want my legacy to be.
You know?
That I cared about my community, that I was outthere putting my money where my mouth was.
(45:43):
You know?
I cared about my family.
I did things for other people.
And, you know, like, yeah, that's the type ofperson that I wanna be, and that's all you can
really ask for, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's incredible.
And just your mentality on life and yourperspective to help heal yourself so that you
can help make an impact on the world, I think,is pretty outstanding and, you know, something
(46:06):
to very much be proud of because I've had many,many conversations with people, especially
people who have gone through the wringer, andit's not as common to have this sort of
mindset.
And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thingto kind of have your foundation as, I'm lucky.
I need to work on appreciating the things thatI go through.
I think that might be a little bit morehumbling, you know, than the opposite of, like,
(46:30):
well, look at everything I've done.
I think your journey is, like, a much morehealthy one.
But just incredible.
The products that you've created, the livesthat you're transforming, the, you know, the
work that you're doing within your community.
I very much feel fulfilled from thisconversation.
I hope others have learned information, youknow, and kind of I know we've talked a little
(46:52):
bit about your platforms, but where can peoplefind more about your coffee, the products,
where can they find you?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, my Instagram is at windandseacoffee.
That's windandseacoffee.
So there's no "d" in "and."
It's just the way the beach is spelled.
So wind and sea coffee, on Instagram, wind andsea coffee dot com, as the website.
(47:18):
We have a YouTube channel, just wind and seacoffee, YouTube.
Check me out on LinkedIn.
I also wanted to make a, coupon code for yourlisteners.
So, yeah, so, 25% off.
But do you wanna just tell me, like, what agood discount code is?
Let's do let's do wellness 25.
(47:39):
Okay.
Cool.
Wellness 25.
Yeah.
No.
No.
I don't think I did.
So, I will create that.
So, yeah, please, if you enjoyed the show, youwanna pick up anything, or even if you wanna
try a sample too because you're, like, a littleunsure, just reach out to me somehow, and,
yeah, I'll make sure you're taken care of.
But, thank you guys for listening to me if youmade it this far, and, yeah, look forward to
(48:04):
seeing your orders.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Well, thank you so much for being here, Niki.
I appreciate kind of just exploring thisconversation, and, I guess we'll chat soon.
Thank you, Jordan.
Alright.
Take care.
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