Ep. 26 | Hormesis, HeartMath & Human Batteries | Navy Medical Chief Patrick Nardulli

Jordan Ryan welcomes Patrick Nardulli to discuss his journey from military service to becoming a resilience trainer. Patrick shares insights on the impact of 9/11, psychological first aid, and the misconceptions surrounding mental toughness. They explore the nervous system's role in resilience, practical exercises, and the significance of heartbeat variability. The conversation delves into preventing burnout through self-care, the power of mindfulness, and the benefits of combining mushrooms with coffee for balanced energy. They also touch on nutrition, the importance of omega-3s, vitamins D3 and K2, and trace minerals. Patrick discusses building resilient teams, changes in the VA system, and his new book "Healthy for Life."

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Alright.
Welcome back to the Mind Body Mushroom, thepodcast where we explore holistic health,
personal growth, and the mindset shifts thatdrive high performance.
I'm your host, Jordan Ryan.
And as always, this episode is brought to youby Wind and Sea Coffee, the world's
best-tasting adaptogenic coffee, crafted tofuel both body and mind.
Today, I'm joined by Patrick Nardooley, aperformance coach, resilience specialist, and

(00:24):
HeartMath certified professional who's workedwith everyone from elite athletes to
operational military forces.
Patrick's background includes consulting withthe Surgeon General of the U.S.
Navy, training within the Bureau of Medicineand Surgery, and leading programs that help
people build unshakable mental and emotionalstrength.
Whether he's speaking on stage, coachingone-on-one, or designing human performance

(00:44):
programs, Patrick brings a deep understandingof the nervous system, stress regulation, and
the tools we can all use to access higherlevels of clarity, discipline, and health.
This conversation dives into resilience,self-leadership, and how to create a lifestyle
that reflects your values inside and out.
Patrick, welcome to the show.
Jordan, thanks for having me, brother.

(01:05):
Sounds like we have a couple folks that knowone another and bringing a little tribe
together of like-minded men and hearts.
That's what this is about, man.
I'm so glad that you knew some of the people.
So why don't we just kind of start with alittle bit of your background?
Like, wherever it makes sense for you to start,you know, I don't know if it's in childhood or
if it's, you know, sometime after the fact, butyou know, what's your origin story?

(01:31):
Alright, good man, love it.
Born and raised out of Chicago, Illinois, youknow, so, it made the Navy easy, especially on
the West Coast because you grow up in extremesof heat and cold.
Yep.
And so, know, and you've been out there in thedesert over here on the West Coast and it can
get extreme cold and then halfway through theday you're peeling off fricking layers into it.

(01:53):
And you see folks breaking down just from that.
As far as my origin story, just coming up, wasvery blessed with good solid Catholic
background family, good parents, just had avery healthy background growing up.
Felt challenging but healthy.

(02:15):
Then blue-collar family, just absolutelyappreciated and valued, know, first and
foremost was other human beings.
And so that's always been in my heart.
And so it made life really easy for me becauseI just believe life's about connections and
relationships.
Man, there was a period of time that we startedseeing everything happen with Kuwait, we just
touched on a little bit of military.

(02:35):
Yeah.
You
know, was one of them guys, I just saw thingspopping off and said, man, I gotta go do
something about that.
And so a buddy of mine, were like, all well, ifwe're gonna do it, let's go, let's be Navy
SEALs, right?
Hell yeah.
That didn't pan out, but none of like most ofRight, right.
But that was the thing, right?
Training in Lake Michigan, getting called outby the Coast Guard and finally making it in.

(03:01):
These are my knee during boot camp and we werelike literally escaping at night to go train
because you actually fell out of shape back inthe day.
the day. Same
Up there.
They had like the 800 divisions, which werelike the spec war, like boot camps, but dude,
everyone just got weak and skinny.
Sorry to
throw you off, but yeah, I totally feel you.

(03:25):
All that being said, brother, so I came on in,most of my passion was just healthcare.
And so I came in as a doc, similar to yourself.
Retired as an HMC.
My journey goes from 1990 to 2020, going backand forth between the hospitals, both in the

(03:47):
Marine Corps hospitals, back out the MarineCorps, one combat tour, one humanitarian tour,
which I saw a lot of the same degradations andcrushing of spirits on both sides.
It wasn't about PTSD or combat, it was justseeing stuff that your mind wasn't ready to
freaking manage and handle and to adapt to andwere not equipped for.
That's evolved me, especially my last fouryears when I just started to see a lot of our

(04:11):
brothers and sisters coming back unequipped,right?
And I was one of the first ones to come back,so I was able to see the rollout of not having
the tools and techniques and the strategies, ifyou would, to manage the nervous system.
And so we just saw a ton of our brothers andsisters getting crushed and not knowing what to

(04:34):
do about that.
So that was my deep dive into saying, okay, letme see what's going on here because I know when
they left and I know a lot of folks that leftwith, so I thought resilience and grit came
back with a lot of challenges that we'reseeing, still seeing with folks struggling.
And so that kind of just diving out topsychology, neuroscience, psychophysiology,

(04:57):
understanding what it is to actually buildresilience and get the left of the bang you may
hear every so often.
I'm sure you heard that from Matt and theirefforts there.
And
So as I transitioned out of the military,because of those efforts and tapping into those
different resources, I kind of pulled in andrecruited on board to a group called the Naval

(05:19):
Center for Combat and Operational StressControl, which were really building the
programs and rolling those programs out of theCOSC doctrine, which is Combat and Operational
Stress Control doctrine by the Marine Corps andArmy.
They all came together trying to figure outwhat are we going to do when these folks are
coming back and how can we support them in thebest way possible.
The problem state was that we were still in theback end of things, right?

(05:40):
So it was more of a stigma campaign to breakdown the barriers so our brothers and sisters
would talk to one another and go get the careand the resources that were available.
Since then it's evolved, it's been awesome.
What time period was this that you kind ofstarted?
All the way back to probably initiated about2008.

(06:01):
So here I am, I'm back from deployment from,because I was out there in 2002/2003 when we
crossed the border and so coming back and justseeing all that.
So I mean, here we go, we got a long span ofresources not being here and nobody even
talking about it.
Can
I ask you a question?
Yeah, absolutely.
So you're one of the, I don't know, I'd saylike a very special breed of veteran that

(06:27):
joined prior to 9/11, but was there in through9/11 and especially in, as a doc, what was, how
did, how did that shift occur between like whatyou were doing before and then, you know, what
was it like kind of over 9/11 and then into theinvasion of Iraq and all those other...

(06:48):
What
A great question, man.
I mean, I think you can ask anybody who wasalive and well during that time, where they
were, exactly where I was.
Literally coming back and you know the areasout there so out in 22 Area Med Battalion, just
came back from a run and dropped off rightbefore I was gonna go upstairs to see that,

(07:11):
essentially a little quarterback where one ofour docs were standing by and seeing everybody
wrapped around the television.
I'm like, oh, you need a knife hand, right?
What are y'all doing here?
Let's get up top, let's get things going.
We got time to lean, time to go.
Absolutely, bro.
And you're like, I think I was an E-1 at thetime.
They were like, E-1, they're like, no.
And they're like, you gotta see what's going onhere?

(07:33):
I look at the screen and literally looking atit, it looks like something from a Die Hard
movie.
I was, I still couldn't believe it.
I still couldn't freaking believe it.
Anyways, that was it, man.
As soon as I got upstairs, because I was, I wasthe S-3 shop.
So it was everything training and operations.
I got pulled in by the skipper and my seniorenlisted at that time.
And we just started to look at what's thecoming in future and that just changed the face

(07:56):
of everything we were doing at Battalion andwhat the plans were after that.
And so fortunately, I was able to contribute tothat and be part of that movement and
everything that went into it and trainingeverybody to actually make that movement.
And since then, man, just been a freaking ride.

(08:19):
It was all about taking care of everybodyaround you.
This is when you start seeing brothers actuallyhugging each other and embracing one another,
which you didn't see in the past.
And so it's a new community, a new connection,a new purpose.
That's it, man, since then it was reallydelving into what am I gonna do to take care of
my brother and sister just moving forward.

(08:41):
So, and then, then you said in 2008 is when youstarted seeing kind of these changes.
So, I mean, that's three-quarters of the waythrough the decade before it's starting to, you
know, enter the consciousness that like, hey,there's something going on because we're
building these resilient people to go overseas.
And then they're kind of falling apart whenthey get home.

(09:06):
Is that kind of how you would describe it?
Yeah, I think you captured it well, Jordan.
I think it's like anything else in the world,right?
Even today, if we're to step outside and seesomething that our mind was not prepared to
see, I mean simply if you saw a dog get runover.
Yeah.
God forbid, man.
We got a puppy now.
Right, right.
But if you weren't prepared to see that, it'sgoing to impact your brain differently, right?

(09:30):
So I don't think anybody was thinking aboutstress inoculation at that time.
Exposing folks to some of the stuff they'regoing to see and even if you saw it on the
television until you're there and you smell itand you feel it, it's not real and then your
brain has to process that, that this issomething I mean especially when you see women,
children and we've seen it across the boardwhether it was going overseas to Iraq or

(09:54):
Afghanistan or during the tsunami relief inIndonesia and people were pulling babies out
mud.
Right, right, wow.
So take me past February 2008 now.
So what's going on?
This is probably getting relatively close towhen you're getting out of service.

(10:16):
Yep,
so I just felt very fortunate, you know, as Istated, man, just a dear friend of mine invited
me up and he says, hey, you know what, I'mstanding up this new program, I know you speak
Marine Corps, I speak Navy.
He goes, you know, we helped you kind of bringus to the fleet.
And so that's what happened.
But at that point it was really based on thedoctrine was teaching about psychological first

(10:38):
aid.
The core leader functions, what it is to be aleader to recognize it and be able to take, you
know, take folks and actually embody that andgive them their resources.
The stress continuum model, I'm sure you mayhave come across back in the day, right?
Looking at all the different domains of astress response objectively, right?
Back in the day it was green, yellow, orange,red.

(11:01):
We could always break that down in another,whether it's now or another podcast and what
that means and how valuable that is.
Still is a cornerstone of just observing whenone of your brothers or sisters are going
through something and they don't have to sayanything, it's observable.
But to identify that within ourselves was sopowerful, right?
Then once we can identify it with ourselves,it's nice we can identify it within someone

(11:22):
else.
And then in February 2008, that was the whole,it was really a stigma campaign, trying to
break down the barriers.
Yeah.
Say it's okay not to be okay.
Right, right.
And pretty successful.
I mean, I don't know how it was like inFebruary 2008.
I joined in 2013.
You know, but it seems like at least nowadays,which is, you know, what's that February 2008

(11:47):
to like 15 years, something like that.
Yeah.
Know, there it really is normalized and it'slike in in some ways, like almost cliche, but
in in a good way, it's like it it should beobvious, you know?
And, you know, speaking with Matt Domiansic.

(12:08):
Domiansic.
Yeah.
Domiansic.
There we go.
The beast.
He's an anomaly, man.
Was on the level.
Oh my God.
He's he's the man.
You know?
But he he I think the the interesting contrastwas how normalized in many cases in 2023, this
type of talk is for military and militaryveterans and how alien and still stigmatized it

(12:34):
is for law enforcement and first responders.
Yeah.
And you know, I got my own philosophy aroundthat.
First and foremost, you know, we're one largeorganization.
Right?
So if it comes from the top down, Chief NavalOperations says, right?
Yeah.
You talk to, you know, the Commandant of theMarine Corps says, right, you know, my people
are the most important asset and I need toinvest in them.

(12:54):
Do that.
And so, and so I, man, I just empathize with,with Matt and all our first responders because
it's, it's as anything and you know, this man,it's all about leadership.
Yeah.
And if leadership's not endorsing and theydon't believe in it, the funding's not going to
be there and support's not going to be there.
And at the end of the day, it's really aboutculture change.

(13:16):
Yeah.
That's, I was going to say culture.
You've heard that saying culture eats yourstrategy for lunch.
And it's like, you can have, you can have aplan.
You know, you could have, you know, aPowerPoint presentation, but if you're not
changing the culture, then you're not reallymaking progress.
Legit Jordan.
Those are true words.

(13:37):
So I have a question.
So since you worked with elite military teamsand high performers, what's the biggest
misconception people have about mentaltoughness?
Well, think there's, it's a greatdifferentiator, right?
Is that, and I'm really starting to delve downthis path between grit and resilience.

(13:58):
Interesting.
And so there's, I know a lot of guys that theyhave incredible resilience but they don't have
any grit.
And I know a lot of guys that have grit butthey don't have resilience.
And so what I find is the way I define itanyways, grit is something that you and I,
that's from stress inoculation whether we choseit or not, intentional, deliberate or not, that

(14:22):
builds in that grit for us.
Now can we build that?
Can we do that?
I absolutely believe that.
I think without saying it, we do that in ourmilitary by exposing, right?
I just believe in, you know, we heard ofeustress, but I really like to start looking at
hormetic stress, hormesis.
You wanna talk
about that?
I'm familiar, but yeah, like elaborate onhormesis because that's a term that's been

(14:44):
thrown around a lot lately, which is a goodthing.
Yeah, no, for your listeners and for us to getin deeper conversations when you and Guy get
together and start having some round tables,it's simply the progressive exposure to stress
to the level that it stretches us in a way thatwe grow.

(15:09):
Just simply, that was the simplest way I canput it, now thinking about strategically and
operationally, how can I expose you?
And NSW is great at this, right?
Because they get them out there, they got smartpeople out there watching them saying, okay,
I'm taking this point, but they will identifyif someone's to a breaking point that it's
going to be a medical incident, then we got topull them back.

(15:31):
And this is where I love the foundations ofdistress continual model is because if we look
at the green, the yellow, the orange and thered, green is ready.
Everybody looks at green as ready, but it's notwithout stress.
So it's a great place to grow and recover, butit's important that we push them into the
yellow, get them stressed in a controlledenvironment and then bring them back so they

(15:55):
can grow and recover just like going to the gymor anything else that we do.
Knowing your limits so you don't injureyourself because now you're in the orange and
now you need additional support.
That's not the intent but if we have a mindsetthat we can say, you know what, let's press so
we can stretch and grow and then come back andthen grow that green is the way I like to say
it.

(16:16):
So now you're in a place that same stressorsbut it may be different for you or me based on
what our experience was that's now part of whowe are.
That's where I look at is grit.
And then resilience, the way I break this outand this is an evolving definition.
Like if I was going to ask you, Jordan, whenyou think of resilience, what's your

(16:39):
definition, your personal definition ofresilience?
I think of resilience, well, I guess in, in twoways, like if I were to think of it in a
physical way, and this, this may not be the wayyou define it.
But when I think of resilience physically, Ithink of your ability to recover, you know,

(17:00):
like it's how easily are you getting brokendown?
It doesn't matter if you can, you know, squat,you know, 415, if you know, you're, you can't,
you know, walk the next day, then that thenyou're kind of lacking resilience.
And I feel like with, you know, the other typeof resilience that I, I think about nowadays

(17:21):
is, can you kind of roll with the punches, youknow, of life?
Like when, when, you know, I run a business,I've just a lot of external things in my life
that like, I have a really hard time.
I can't control all of the variables, you know,it feels many times like shit is just happening
at me, you know, but my resilience is like, youknow, the things that the challenges that I'm

(17:45):
dealing with nowadays, if I tried dealing withthem 10 years ago, I feel it would, I'd be
overwhelmed and unable, but you know, I've kindof built myself up.
But I guess maybe I'm thinking aboutresilience.
It sounds like a little bit more like grit.
How would you, where do I have it wrong, Iguess?
No, I don't think you got it wrong at all.
And so here's a definition I'll lay, I'll giveyou a framework.

(18:07):
Yeah.
I want you to start looking at resilience asyour capacity.
Now grit complements that for sure, right?
Because you're already coming in with a levelthat you can sustain something and you're not
going to be depleted as soon as somebody elsebecause of your So every time you start getting
exhausted, brother, just say, you know what,I'm just building more grit.
It's a great way.

(18:30):
It's just I'm growing, right?
Every time you're challenging yourself, you'regrowing.
That contributes to or complements resilience.
And so the way we're starting to see thisdefinition evolve of resilience is like the
human battery.
Yeah, okay.
So you got a certain level in there but nowwhat it is, it's all up to us.
What do we do and I'm going give you thisframework.

(18:50):
Before, in preparation.
During, meaning that that'll be the tacticaltools that you have.
Right?
In the moments, the mindfulness moments, thebreath work.
Anything you can do, right, to ground yourself,in the moment.
And then if you could during that timeframe,the breath work is going to be able to actually
renew that battery while you're in the fight.

(19:10):
Whether it's short term, short term it's abouthaving that battery full ahead of time.
That's why I want us to start looking atresilience as it's the ability to prepare for
and then recover from just like you said butthere's more there.
It's to be able to adapt in the middle of achallenge or any kind of stressor.

(19:31):
Gotcha.
Right.
So a little more comprehensive, but exactlywhat you were saying.
You kind
of complement each other.
That absolutely makes sense.
And what role does like the nervous system playin resilience and how can we train it
intentionally?
So good, man.
So good.
I mean, that's a whole other podcast for sure.
We'll have you back as well.

(19:52):
Love geeking out on this stuff, man.
It's so good and so important for, I think,others to know and need.
I always like to start out with a level ofpsychophysiology, and as elementary as you and
I believe the autonomic nervous system is, it'snot.
Man, it's not.
So just for your audience, I just want them tohear that there's this automatic system out

(20:19):
there.
It's the autonomic nervous system that's in ourbodies that manages 90% of all the processes
that go on in your system.
If you were to sit here and do nothing, yourbody's going to keep running efficiently
because of that system, and that's yourautonomic nervous system.
And with that, you have two different branches.
One of those is sympathetic, the other one isparasympathetic.

(20:42):
Now the way I like to, you know, when I breakit down to especially our military folks, just
really simplifying it so they can really makeit tangible to them, is your sympathetic is
your gas pedal, and your parasympathetic isyour brake.
Now they should be working in harmony.
When you're going down the highway, you want towork back and forth.
That's the intent.

(21:02):
The problem space is that I think most of us,and me included—I'll be transparent—I've
pressed that gas for so long.
Conditioned my nervous system to operate there.
That's a whole other conversation for our folksthat are coming back and haven't shut it off

(21:22):
yet.
But the truth is we're really good at trainingthe sympathetic nervous system.
It's life.
So what are we doing to start talking aboutshifting it and empowering them with what's
going on within their nervous system, that theyhave this system and that they can actually
control it with the breath?
If you're down, man, I'll take you through aquick Yeah,

(21:45):
Absolutely.
I would love that.
I got you.
Let's make this a useful tool for thelisteners.
Yeah, I'd love that.
Awesome, man.
All right, well you and I both know about, andso we're gonna hit two different pieces and I
might, if we got time, I'll bring in the lastpiece.
Yeah.
And we're talking about heart rate and heartrate variability.
And so from heart rate, we often know heartrate to be exactly that.

(22:08):
It's a vital sign, right?
Just take your health and wellness.
There's a lot of factors that impact thatwhether you're sick, whether you're coming off
a workout, whatever it may be, whatever yournervous system is actually reacting to.
There's a lot of ways to look at that.
But today what I want us to do is I want us todo a quick bridge between heart rate, which
most folks believe kind of kicks off like ametronome, right?

(22:32):
That steady beat.
Boom, boom, boom, boom.
And the truth is it's always responding in thecenter of your heart.
It's responding and reacting to the stressorsof life and how you're breathing and that
autonomic nervous system which is really at thecenter of it all.
And that's that beat-to-beat change thathappens.
We know that's why it's called heart ratevariability because there's variability within
the heart rate.

(22:53):
And to have high heart rate variability isactually a positive thing, a very good thing.
Okay.
Which unless you're in the fitness world oryou're not paying attention to it, you don't
know that.
You're thinking high heart rate means negative.
Yeah.
But having that variability is identifyingflexibility and adaptability within your
nervous system.
Interesting.

(23:13):
So I'll take you through it, brother.
Yeah, let's go.
Alright, I'll ask you to just sit up tall andI'll invite you to close your eyes, and this is

why I do that (23:21):
I want to take away one of your senses because I really want you to focus on
your heartbeat.
Alright, breathe in a little slower and deeperthan usual, and while you're doing that, I want
you to take your two fingers, your indexfinger, your middle finger, slide across your
jaw, find your carotid.

(23:46):
When you find it, you'll know it.
You got it, brother?
Yeah.
I'm gonna put it this side.
You can come down a little lower.
There we go.
Beautiful.
Alright, I'll ask you again to just invite youto breathe in through your nose and out through

(24:06):
your mouth, breathing a little slower anddeeper than usual.
What I want you to pay particular attention tois the rate of your heartbeat.
What you should be witnessing is as you inhale,your heart rate will increase, and as you

(24:31):
exhale, your heart rate will decrease.
Do that for another 10 seconds.
Whenever you're ready, brother, open your eyes,bring your attention back to the room.

(24:53):
What you just experienced there, Jordan, wasfirst and foremost you identified that the
heartbeat is not like a metronome, religiouslybeating off at the same level.
It's always responding to an action that'sgoing on in your body, and what's cool about
that is now you've just been empowered torealize—and you probably already knew this, but

(25:16):
for anybody else—that when you exhale, you candecrease that sympathetic, that gas pedal,
you're able to put on the brakes and slowthings down a little bit.
In the problem space is that everybody, theyintentionally breathe in, who's actually
intentionally or deliberately exhaling.
Right.

(25:36):
Right, we don't.
So now you have this new power that if you cando that and you know it's just paced breathing.
If you can breathe in four seconds in, fourseconds out or five seconds in, five seconds
out, whatever's comfortable for you, now youcan actually bring a little more control and
composure to your autonomic nervous system.
It's always communicating with your brain, andwhen you're constantly inhaling and just

(25:59):
letting it go, you're telling the brain you'rein a stress state.
Totally.
That makes a lot of sense, you know, andsomething that's kind of making me think about,
you know, so we've normalized in a lot of waystalking about, you know, that it's okay to not
be okay, you know, expressing, I think as asociety, we fetishize the sympathetic nervous

(26:27):
system.
Go, go, go, work, work, work, more, more, more.
And we've almost like shamed theparasympathetic, you know?
Because I'm not, dude, I'm as guilty of this asanyone else, but like, have the hardest time
just sitting still and being okay with notgetting shit done, you know?

(26:52):
And it feels like I'm like, dude, like whatlaurels do I have to rest on?
Like, I need to, if I have, it's kind of thattime to lean, time to clean attitude, you know,
if you're, you, what are you doing resting?
You know, you have shit to do and you haven'treached all the goals that you're going for.
And that's been something I've really beentrying to work on is just being okay with not

(27:14):
being productive.
So here's my takeaway with that, Jordan, isshifting from a doing to being mindset.
Who does Jordan want to be?
Just define that, you know?
And I mean, I bet you can say it, I want to becomposed, I want to be kind, I want to be
thoughtful, I want to be energetic when I needit, I want to be a good host, I want to be a

(27:40):
good business owner.
And so when we're looking at the doing, whathappens is often we're caught up in that doing
piece and we're not, and often unless it'struly aligned, unless you're truly deliberate
and you have extreme discipline and you've doneeverything from starting from your values and

(28:01):
building out your goals and that you'reliterally looking at the paper and saying, is
my next action on my calendar moving me towardsmy goals which are towards my value or that are
meeting my values?
And that's what's moving me forward.
And then that gives you, that gives you theconfidence that you're doing everything right
during your day.
So you can actually give yourself permission togo work out, take care of you and do a little

(28:25):
Right.
Do you have kind of tips that you would give,you know, anyone about, especially people in
high-performance environments to how to preventburnout?
Yeah, bro.
It's such a conversation right now across theboard.
I mean, fatiguing burnout is a real thing.
I won't say it's partly, but it's mainly partof the expectation management.

(28:53):
And people aren't managing those expectations.
The expectation is that especially if they'reuniformed members, or they're elite athletes,
or anybody in these high-performing positions,the expectation is that they're going to
perform well in stressful situations.
And it's gonna be a constant.
And that's part of the culture we built.
I mean, we built that.
Whether it's big America or if it's ourmilitary members, truth of the matter, we want

(29:17):
a rank structure.
We make rank based on our performance reviews.
People make more money based on our performancereviews.
So if I wasn't giving any tips, first andforemost is, man, I'm just a believer in
self-care.
And why do I say that?
Because we are energy systems.
And so if I was to take you back to the analogyof your battery, how many of you believe that

(29:41):
you're at 100% freaking capacity all the time?
Like meaning your battery is freaking charged.
That dude is draining all day long.
Whether you know what, most likely I couldprobably point to the apps maybe because I've
been checking out podcasts from Jordan orliterally I got a bunch of apps running in the

(30:02):
background and my battery and I'm not evenpaying attention.
Totally.
Wow yeah, that's a good analogy.
So if I was going to give anybody guidance,number one, first and foremost is self-care is
not selfish.
Be deliberate and intentional.
Literally every hour I have it on my phone,alarm comes on to breathe or walk, get in the

(30:25):
sunlight, go outside.
At least even if I was to walk downstairs andjust go hug my little girl, come back.
But I break off every time I walk through adoorway, I shift and reset my energy and I
recharge my battery.
I probably have a device here, yep.
So this is HeartMath work.

(30:48):
I don't know if you know anything aboutHeartMath.
No, I have some questions about that but yeahmaybe talk about it now.
Go on.
So I to give overarching is mindfulness in mymind is probably one of the greatest
superpowers or resources that you have andmindfulness is not a one thing, it's an

(31:09):
umbrella of a lifestyle.
It's just being mindful which then you tie inEQ and everything else.
So self-awareness, what are the practices thatwe're doing on a daily basis to become more
self-aware?
And I look at all environmentals externally,which we're hyper-aware of, right?
That's part of our training.
But how much of our taking time to actually getin touch with ourselves and look inward to now

(31:33):
know the difference in the feeling that'shappening when I know that I'm starting to get
elevated or aroused or activated and then it'stoo late.
I've already jumped.
So mindfulness, I mean, across the board, sothere's anything from meditation, yoga,
grounding techniques, you know about boxbreathing, tactical breathing, recalibration,
they're teaching in bootcamp today.

(31:55):
Exhaling more than you're inhaling.
You can actually turn on the parasympathetic.
So I'm getting those affirming nods from you.
I mean, it's all stuff you know.
Sure.
No, but I don't mean to like throw you off.
I'm like, yes, yes.
Like this
is no, it's all good.
It's all good.
I have a question a little bit aboutmindfulness.
So tell me how you think, if you think about itdifferently, especially because there are, you

(32:19):
know, there's meditation, there's a lot ofdifferent forms of activity that can garner
mindfulness.
But the way I maybe think about it is it's likethe opposite of getting lost in thought or, you
know, transporting your mind to the future orthe past.

(32:41):
Is there maybe another way of thinking aboutit?
You know, because I think some people, theyhear mindfulness and they're like, damn, you're
saying I gotta meditate like every day, youknow, or whatever.
Brother, I'll tell you something, for the last,I mean, for 15 years, I've been walking in
rooms with a bunch of our brothers with theirarms crossed.
You know what I'm saying?

(33:02):
Just, I mean, finally we got to the left ofthings, we brought in mind, body, mental
fitness.
And so the last, I want to say last sevenyears, yeah, last seven years, coming in and
telling them I'm going to talk about theiremotions and mindfulness.
But by the end of it, they're like, okay, yeah,I need some of that.
So I'll tell you the best way I break it downis first and foremost, I want you to think

(33:24):
about anybody that's driving back and forth towork every day, and I always ask the question,
like, how do you actually remember your triphome?
You just show up in your driveway, and you'relike, how the hell did I not get in an
accident?
That's mindlessness, right?
And so, now man, when I drive, and especiallythe two offices I go to, San Diego, baby, man,

(33:45):
I'm mindful.
Just appreciating certain things and I'mcapturing those things and just adding to my
gratefulness list.
But to really answer your question directly,you're absolutely right, Jordan, if we're
living in the past, the shoulda, woulda,couldas, or if I said something that didn't go
up, which I often do, or concern about thefuture, right?

(34:09):
Hasn't even happened yet.
You're not able to be present, and so if you'renot present, you're not even capturing those
moments, man.
You're living in all the freaking angst andstressors of life.
But we're designed that way, we're wired thatway.
That's our last
night, this happens to me sometimes, but justlast night, dude, I laid in bed from midnight

(34:32):
till 2 in the morning, and it was unbelievablehow fast time was going by.
And I was not sleeping.
I was just, as soon as I would like, okay, likeall the chatter and everything kind of settled
down, I'd be like, shit, I, you know, how am Igonna, what, you know, it was all, all of
these, you know, plan A, plan B, do I have acontingency for what happens if this gets
messed up?

(34:52):
Then, you know what I mean?
And I'm like, dude, like I'm, I'm workingmyself up.
And so I struggle with it too.
And that's especially, you know, so I'll, I'lllay there and, and, you know, breathe, but it's
almost like what I can distract myself duringthe day with other stuff that then keeps me
occupied so that I can stay a little bit morepresent, but it's, it's where I really struggle

(35:17):
with it is in the absence of, you know,distractions.
That's when the projecting into the future, I'mmore of a future worrier than like a
preoccupied on the past, but shit, man, I, Idefinitely am guilty of that.
Jordan, I got you, man.
I'm gonna give you a framework.
Yeah, please.

(35:37):
And I don't know how much you know about CBT orDBT.
So CBT is cognitive behavioral therapy.
Oh, okay.
Yes.
Yes.
And DBT is giving you dialectical behavior
Okay, cool.
The word dialectical means that two things canbe true at the same time.
So that's where you can say this is true andthis is true.
But what I want to get at is just a self-talkmodel, and so anytime you're triggered, right,

(36:01):
is so we have a thought, and that thoughtbecomes an attitude and a belief about that
thought, and that often turns into an emotion,which turns into behavior.
It's cyclical, and it can be going in alldifferent ding ding ding, it can be hitting all
different freaking corners, man, if you were todraw it out.

(36:21):
And so the power of mindfulness is, it's likethe way I like to look at this is like it's
doing mental reps for your brain.
You know we've been training ADD in our kidssince the iPhone came out.
That's real.
Right?
But hell, I'm guilty of it.
It's so important that you do those other repsjust like you would do with anything else.

(36:42):
So you had that staying power.
So I want you to think about that staying powerto stay in the moment because what we do know
is from literature and research is that thosethat are more present are happiest.
Because just like you were saying, and here'sthe other thing, bro, is when you are living in
the past or ruminating about it, or whereyou're like you're always thinking about the

(37:06):
future, and that's probably why you'resuccessful, right?
Not a bad thing, but you're draining yourbattery, and that's leading to every time you
do that, you're tapping the gas pedal, and weknow what's the hormone that's related to
stress.
Cortisol.
It's real, right?
How long does cortisol stay in the body?
I don't know that.

(37:27):
A five-minute interaction, two-minuteinteraction can last anywhere from an hour to
12 hours of half-life.
Wow.
It's a long time.
Wow.
So now what does that mean for you throughoutyour day if you're tapping that gas pedal?
Know, being mindful and deliberate to do one ortwo things.
Just be mindful of how I'm reacting, that I'mnot gonna let somebody else hijack, right, my

(37:51):
emotions because there's a cascade of 1,400different biochemical processes that happen
every time that happens.
And that stuff's living in your body.
And by the way, and I'm sure you may have heardthis before is the body keeps score.
Right, so it captures that within your fibersand within your body.
And so if I was going to give any guidance, itwould be number one, start practicing

(38:16):
mindfulness.
It doesn't have to be, you know, ideally do itat home quietly, right?
Just practice and getting those reps in, butyou want to get to a place and the way I teach
it and the way I train is I want you to get toa place that eyes wide open, you're in the
middle of it, but you're able to tap into that.
Nobody has to know.
Right?
And you're still crushing and you're renewingalong the way.

(38:37):
So that way you're not waiting until the end ofit to have to recover and you're not waiting
until tomorrow to start over and have to buildthat battery up.
You should be, you should be adding to thatbattery.
It's kind of like having a charger on yourphone all day long.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
I think like maybe another analogy forexercise, for example, is like, you know, an

(38:58):
excuse that a lot of people have is like, Idon't have the time.
Have my school.
I have to drive to work and you got to be thereat 8.
You know, I work till 5 and this, then I gotkids, you know, I don't, don't have time.
And so you're what, but in their mind, they'relooking for when do I have a one hour of the
day that I am doing nothing and then that I'mmotivated enough to get my ass into the gym and
do this.

(39:18):
Whereas like what, you know, if you could dofive squats every time you walk through a
doorway or something like that, you know what Imean?
Can build in that time.
So is that kind of how you're saying this,figuring out how to make mindfulness, you know,
in the micro moments throughout the day ratherthan having to sit down for a 30-minute
meditation.

(39:38):
Jordan, you just bring up a great point, man.
And that is, let's just look at what your dayis already and be mindful when you're doing it.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So if Pat wakes up and the first thing I do isget into my shower and I go hot to cold, I'm
going to be mindful what that process is.
I'm going to shift my mindset about it.
I'm going to enjoy the water.

(40:01):
What does that feel like on my body?
Etc.
I'm going to get out and I'm going to brush myteeth.
What does that feel like?
Simply closing your eyes, feeling the bristleson your teeth.
What does the toothpaste taste like?
What does it smell like?
What does it feel like?
How does that make me feel that I'm cleaning myteeth?
Whatever that is.
These simple things we're already doing.

(40:23):
You just plug it in.
It doesn't have to be named mindfulness.
My Jedi mind trick is with our guys that are inthe fleet.
Anytime we're training, whether it's withweapons or with fire hoses, we just ask them,
take a knee, everybody take a knee, right?
Just go circle.
That's mindfulness, bro.
Because we're asking them to be present and payattention.

(40:45):
Would you say that like, so sometimes I catchmyself doing, I love listening to podcasts.
I listen to podcasts when I'm doing like, like,manual things, you know, what stuff, when I'm
infusing coffee or I'm doing whatever.
And I think part of my, what has drawn me tothem is that it, my brain kind of shuts off,

(41:09):
but in a, in a weird way, because it's like,I'm obviously paying attention to things, you
know, and sometimes I'm like, I know that thisis not the same as meditating and it's, it's
trying, you know, focusing on your internalstates, which you're definitely not in that
case, but you know, do you think that there isa place for something like an external stimulus
that you can place your attention to or am Ijust diluting myself?

(41:34):
No, no.
I mean, well, two different things is evenwhile you're sitting here with me, I am mindful
of my breath.
I'm recharging while I'm with you.
My mindset is different, my heart's expandingbecause right now you're pouring into my glass,
right?
Because you're allowing me to get in flow withyou and have this beautiful connection, right?

(42:00):
So I'm actually charging my battery right nowand because I'm mindful of it, right?
Instead of just letting it happen.
From now, two different questions that youwould tease out of that is first and foremost,
because I'm with you.
Because if I'm doing something that is mundaneand doesn't require that I have this incredible
focus, here's an opportunity that I can golearn something, right?

(42:23):
So I'm a podcast junkie too or YouTube junkie,you know what I'm saying?
Because I mean, you can get a Ph.D., you know,just by listening to all this
stuff.
No shit, dude.
It's for real.
And that being said, there's nothing wrong withthat.
The greatest so the difference is thedifference between doing mundane things and
grabbing knowledge.
Good to go.
It doesn't mean you can't be breathing throughthat process.

(42:44):
In fact, the more you breathe through thatprocess and get out of not just the analytical
mind, just listen to them.
It's kind of like reading.
How many times have you picked up a book andyou had to go back because you're like, I don't
know
how to.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Same thing.
But if you read and just kind of absorb it,process it, make it yours, dissolve it into who

(43:07):
you are, just like if you were listening to apodcast.
So next time you listen to a podcast, probablylisten to it differently, I hope, is that
you're just absorbing it as if you were therewith the member.
It's going to be processed differently becauseyou're turning off this crazy analytical mind
of, man, that's got to be part of this or partof that, which I do as well.

(43:27):
I hear you, you're going to hear some stuff andbe like, man, it's going to be part of my next
podcast.
Right.
I have no doubt you're doing that.
Right.
And it's not a bad thing.
That's a beautiful thing.
But the other side of the coin is distractions.
And I want you to think about this is whenwe're distracting, we're not renewing.
How many of us know folks that have to, theyjust, you know what, I've had a tough freaking

(43:47):
day, I don't want to think.
You know I love this stuff, I just want tofreaking watch some Netflix.
Yeah.
And I'm not judging, but know that you're notrecharging during that time.
You're distracting.
Interesting, yeah.
If you could just do a little bit of breathwork before that or while you're watching it,
be mindful.
I would throw on, you know what I'm saying,like I throw on a device and I'm just, I'm

(44:10):
looking at my HRV and I'm getting it tocoherence and you know, maybe I'm not as into
the show as I need to be, but I'm distracted,but I'm recharging my battery.
I'm retraining my nervous system.
Go back to your original question and a lot ofthe work that I do is and we know of
neuroplasticity and it doesn't just happen inthe brain.

(44:30):
But we are strengthening these pathways betweenthe mind and the body that have been weakened
for so long.
Specifically our vagus nerve has gotten weak.
That's the parasympathetic piece and that's whyso many folks are having a hard time regulating
in the moment.
Totally.
Now we mentioned kind of early on in the show,maybe at the beginning, I don't remember if we

(44:55):
touched it before we recorded, but, you know, Iwanted to talk a little bit about mushrooms,
which is something that I'm very passionateabout, both functional medicinal mushrooms, but
also, you know, psychedelic mushrooms.
But regardless of, you know, how do youpersonally integrate nutrition and
supplementation into your philosophy?

(45:21):
Yeah, beautiful man.
And I don't know as much about functionalmushrooms.
That's why I was, I was excited about talking.
Yeah, yeah.
You I'm looking at lion's mane and cordyceps,reishi, reishi, they all have their own things,
beautiful stuff.
The wife and I have been digging into thosekinds of coffees, like RYZE and some of the
other name brands that are out there.
Actually, started with, was it Four Sigmatic?

(45:42):
Was that the original?
Like the OG's?
One of the original.
I remember Tim Ferriss was talking about it inthe That's
why because he was my guy back in the day.
He was my virtual mentor.
Didn't know it, but yeah, he was
Yeah, totally.
So that's why I started with it back then, andpeople were thinking I was crazy, especially on
the coffee drinkers.
Like, what is that stuff?
I just smelled it.
I was like, yeah, it's earthy.
This is good.
Yeah.
It's natural.

(46:03):
Well, I'll send you a bag too of some mushroomcoffee because we do, like whole bean mushroom
coffee, but yeah, it's, you know, it has chaga,reishi, lion's mane, all the mushrooms.
I'm in.
And,
yeah.
So speaking of cortisol, which is something youmentioned earlier, reishi mushroom has been
shown to decrease your cortisol.

(46:28):
I don't know, production, I guess.
And what's interesting with the combination ina product like coffee.
So caffeine is a stimulant and it's gonna kindof spike that cortisol, and give you that alert
feeling.
The half-life is very long.
And like, I guess like you were saying likethat cortisol, I didn't realize that it's also,

(46:50):
it's not just the caffeine that has a longhalf-life, but it's also the cortisol itself.
So sometimes you can offset that by, you know,all the things that we've already talked about
that help decrease your cortisol productionand, and get that parasympathetic nervous
system moving.
But I've found that functional mushrooms havealso, you know, had that similar response to

(47:15):
where you don't feel as like you're tweakingout on coffee and, and you can kind of like get
back down to, you know, at night to where youcan sleep and actually feel like relaxed
without feeling still kind of wired.
Yeah, was there a question in there, brother?
I love that.
Well,
guess, so do you integrate other types of likenutrition That

(47:39):
was the original question.
Yeah, great question, Jordan.
So I'm a brilliance in the basics kind of guy.
Too many of our brothers and sisters are outthere, and you remember this, just looking on
people's desks and they had, like, fourcanisters or something, from NO-Xplode,
NO-Xplode to different kinds of proteins.

(48:00):
Yeah.
And the truth be told, if we can dial intobrilliance in the basics first, that's a whole
other discussion, right?
Sleep, exercise, nutrition, and put that onthe—But when it comes down to nutrition, I am a
believer of the insurance policy.
I know nobody's eating as well as they can be.
A multivitamin, just find a qualitymultivitamin, invest in that.

(48:25):
Your fish oils.
Yeah.
You know, absolutely need those, bro.
Krill is great.
I use krill.
So let me ask you something about that becauseI just started taking, like, an omega-3, like,
with DHA, that a friend of mine who is, like, amarine biologist and he has a Ph.D., like, you

(48:46):
know, he's a good resource to talk to.
And so he was saying, like, yes, especially forblood pressure and kind of, like, getting more
elasticity in your blood vascularcardiovascular system.
And your cardiovascular system.
And then, you know, typical, like, newsarticles, shit that comes out, I look at it on

(49:08):
my phone and it's saying DHA, or omega-3s, maynot be, like, as good for you and they actually
may be bad for you.
And so it's one of those things where, like,eggs are good for you.
Eggs are bad for you.
You know, it's always, like, back and forth.
So talk about omega-3s and fish oil, ingeneral.

(49:31):
Yeah.
And not that I'm an expert in thatspecifically, but I'll tell you this, just
working in the research world for so long, andthat's why no researcher ever publishes a paper
that says anything definitive.
They just don't because they know tomorrow it'sgoing to be.
But I will tell you as far as some of thestaples that are tried and true and have all

(49:52):
kinds of research, when I see a research papercome out like that, especially comes across
social media and it's not coming from apeer-reviewed paper, they identified one aspect
of it and they blew it up to sell the papers,to bring attention to that.
That's why some great influencers out there dothe same.

(50:13):
Just tease out because it excites people tosay, man, that sounds different than what
everybody else is saying.
Right.
Right, so yeah, you're good, brother.
Keep taking your DHA and your EPAs.
They're good for the brain, so good for thecardiovascular system.
Sweet.
Absolutely important and it mitigates theimpacts of cortisol and everything else that we

(50:38):
have going on.
It's just good for you from the heart level,from the brain level, just a positive, positive
thing.
The other foundational things that I believe inis, well, to be honest, what I'm really
starting to tie in is a lot of the mushroom.
But that's something I think I'd love to teaseout with you another time.
And so it's my fish oils, my multi.

(51:00):
D3, you got to make sure you got K2 in that.
Folks don't realize everybody's been talking D3and they've been piling it on even here in San
Diego where it's beautiful and the sun is outthere.
As we get older, we just don't process the sameway but K2 keeps the what they find in D3 is
that sometimes you're seeing the calciumgetting into the blood and so K2 with D3

(51:26):
together, that makes sure that the calciumstays where it's supposed to be in the bones,
in the teeth and not into our bloodstream.
So very powerful to understand that.
I like my ashwagandha, which is good stuff, butI'm also a big fan of creatine, can't argue
with that.
Any age, in fact our elders even more so whenit comes down to just strength and by the way,

(51:51):
it's a nootropic.
My girlfriend on creatine because she'svegetarian so, you know,
I figured.
figured. Huge, right?
I mean,
you might want to get, I mean ideally we'regetting all this stuff from, you know, food and
go stores but even if we get it and we'repaying for it, we're so overworked here in the
States they shot in the farmlands.

(52:13):
Right.
We're getting beat up man.
We got to put in tons of it to get it.
So you have to, we have to supplement a littlebit.
Yeah.
And our
food sources are so stripped of, you know, realnutrition and there's a lot of stuff.
You know, this was an interesting point thatsomebody, I don't know how true it is, I guess,
scientifically, but it made sense.
But a friend of mine actually was on thepodcast, Jose Martinez.

(52:38):
He was talking about how avoiding pork and thereasoning being was that they're one of the
only animals, like they're very sentient.
They're like, you know, intelligent animals andthey see their other livestock being
slaughtered.
And so they get like massive cortisol dumps,you know?

(53:02):
And so you're eating a lot of the stresshormones that they're producing just by virtue
of how the meat is processed.
And then on top of all the other shit they putin the meat, antibiotics, this.
That's a whole nother conversation.
I mean, I think about fish, like farmed fish.
You know about it, I mean, they're stressed.

(53:24):
That's what you see.
I mean, you ever go get some like Alaskan nicesalmon, it's like a steak.
It's firm, it's bright red and then you getsomething that's farmed, it's like opaque, it's
soft and mushy.
If you have it, man, I'm a big believer intrace minerals.
It's another one and you can do those in a lotof different ways.

(53:45):
I don't have it in front of me right now but afunctional medicine doc of mine, she prescribed
it to me but they come in like glasscontainers.
That's expensive.
Got to use.
Yeah, what are trace minerals?
It's like
So anywhere, anything from your man, I'mfreaking just blowing a blanket.
Is it like zinc and stuff like it's

(54:07):
to be zinc, magnesium, magnesium.
You can get from Baja Gold, can get some salt,any of that, you can just sprinkle that in your
water.
I do it every morning.
You get 91 trace minerals.
These are all things that are impacting yourelectrolytes in your heart and how it's

(54:27):
communicating, how it's supporting yourneurotransmitters and how they're communicating
within your body.
So from a nervous system perspective, huge man,and you can get a bag for like literally $15.
It'll last you a year.
Forever.
Yeah.
Sweet.
That's a good point.
So let's zoom out, for a second, you know, aswe're kind of getting closer to the end.

(54:48):
Now what, what do you, where was I?
Oh yeah.
Okay.
What's one thing that leaders get wrong whenthey're trying to build resilient teams or
cultures?
What they get wrong is, that if they don'tinvolve first and foremost, I'll start with the

(55:11):
social connection and culture.
If they are not focusing on culture first inbuilding that culture because we all know that
I can't be there for three hundred fifty of myguys and gals.
I can't be.
I want to be and I'm hoping that I'm modelingthat for my middle managers and my middle

(55:32):
leaders and that's getting down, that's beingemulated.
But the truth of the matter is unless I holdquarters like every single day and I'm the guy
holding them quarters, it's not going to getdown.
We got to build a culture and that's where themoney's at because if we're teaching a culture
to look out for one another, looking out forour brother and sister on the left and the

(55:52):
right of us, identifying when there's stress,building the conditions in that it's not just
the new thing to do, it is to raise your handwhen you need help, but it's the expectation.
Now
we've shifted a culture that I always ask asimple question, would you rather deploy with
someone or pull away from the peer or droppingboots on the ground with somebody who needs

(56:16):
help or someone who's gotten help?
Yeah, totally.
It kind of says it all, right?
So we make it okay not to be okay and that itis the expectation that you are doing
self-care, that you're taking care of yourselfas well as your families.
Cause we know the families impact us that Iknow in the back end, you're going to take care
of me and the mission.

(56:37):
And do you think that that maybe starts, youknow, one thing that the Navy is notoriously
famous for is doing like NKOs.
It'd be like, hey, you know, we've determinedthat there are a disproportionately high number
of sexual harassment and assault incidents.
And so like, we need to take this seriouslyand, you know, do this and it's coming.

(57:03):
Yeah.
You do need to take it seriously.
And so what did they do?
They put out an NKO like online click, clickthing that you just click through and get to
the end and say, yeah, I did it.
So, you know what I mean?
So how do you, how do you keep that fromhappening to all the stuff we're talking about?
Yeah, Jordan, I think that the greatest thingis if you're going to any of these trainings

(57:25):
that happen, they got to be they can't beclickable.
It can't be another freaking just a requirementto check the box.
It's got to be something that's talked aboutand there's a discussion.
The power in any change, behavioral change isto connect with somebody.
We got to remember that we're all human beingsand I think that's forgotten.
They're just saying, okay, we want to make surewe've checked the box to make sure that from

(57:49):
the liability perspective, we've doneeverything right.
But if you truly want change, that has to comefrom leadership setting those conditions,
saying, hey, we're going to talk about this.
In fact, we're going to discuss it.
I'm going to get you in a psychologically safespace.
There's a lot of ways to do that.
Right?
It takes a lot more energy.
Yeah.
And it could be uncomfortable because it'sgonna be bringing up emotions.

(58:09):
Right?
Emotions are uncomfortable.
That's why we're so good at boxing that shitup.
Yeah.
Right?
And sometimes we need to, we're deployed.
We get back home in garrison, we got to unboxthat shit, dissolve it, reintegrate it.
So now we can go forward and we can have theseconversations.
To your point, that's always been a problem.
But the fact is we got competing priorities,competing authorities in order to get the

(58:33):
mission done first.
And unless it's going to get me in trouble,they're not going to do it.
They're not going to do it because they do havea responsibility because it's all at the end of
the day, it's about warfighting and readiness.
I wish they would look at readiness, though.
That's the thing, right?
And I think we're really moving to that place.
Unlike, we talked about the first respondersare fragmented, so it's a little different.

(58:55):
You got different stations that are better thanothers.
But as an organization, I absolutely believethat the Navy and the Marine Corps, actually
all services, our office talks to all of themand we're putting together somebody here pretty
soon that we're trying to move the dial in thatdirection.
It's just that we're such a large organization,right?
Get arms around it, get the resources there andactually put that time in.

(59:17):
Do you see the changes happening at all withinthe VA system?
Like for guys after, because that's anotherthing too, like within the special operations
world, there is a, there's a lot of awarenessand there's a lot of resources after the fact,
you know, for people to go get various forms oftreatment, whatever they may be, but big VA in

(59:39):
general, you know, I feel like is stuck in like1950s medicine, change socks, take Motrin,
here's a pill for that.
We'll mail them to you, you know?
And I don't know that I don't feel all the timelike they're, they have embraced some of what
that leading edge is.
I will tell you, Jordan, my experience has beenthat it depends upon the region.

(01:00:03):
But
I really believe they're being progressive, andthey are bringing in some of this.
They're bringing in mind-body medical fitness,they're bringing in now medicinal medicine.
We're not there yet, but they recognize it.
It's just so many different approvals to getthere, but I think ketamine is already in
place.
Oh really?
Interesting.
Yeah, so I think there's a lot of progressivemovement in that area.

(01:00:27):
They recognize it as well.
That's awesome.
We got to shift from the reactive model to thepreventive model.
Yeah, it's cheaper.
I mean, you know what I like if you want to beas callous about it as possible, it's cheaper.
From a business perspective, it makes sense,right?
Right, well.

(01:00:47):
So Patrick, what is next for you?
Where are you going in your career or yourmission, and how can people kind of stay in
touch with you?
Yeah, appreciate you asking.
A lot of my work is, as you know from my bioand talking to Matt, my passion is for others

(01:01:09):
to thrive and really just going back to thehuman being than the doing.
But it really is about healthy for life.
And if you ever read or came across PeterAttia's book,
you know, I've heard of Peter Attia, yeah.
Yeah, so his focus is health span versuslifespan.
Oh, that's right, yeah.
He was on Sam Harris' podcast.

(01:01:30):
He's been on a
few things.
Yeah.
But I,
and this is why I really wanted to get on withyou and talk about the holistic approach.
Yeah.
It's how do we look at the whole body, get theroot causes, not stuff that we've been
experiencing with the VA still.
I mean, it's because of the limitations of whatthey have.
The treatment of symptoms, vice treating theperson, but they're getting there, right?

(01:01:51):
I do believe they're progressing in that way,the conversations are being had.
So for me, it's about the greatest impact Icould have in the world and whether that is
individual coaching and consultation to teamsand organizations, especially my heart is
called to my vets, my first responders and themore I grow and spend time with the Mats of the

(01:02:17):
world and some of the other folks up and downthe coast here.
In fact, literally two minutes before youcalled, a captain of a firehouse just got done
with some training and he's like, Pat, man, I'mtalking to Firstbeat.
I want to get this stuff for my station.
I was like, bro, would love to talk to you.
I said, I got about five minutes before I stepon with Jordan, but I will call you back.
So I guess what I'm sharing with you is there'sa lot of when folks are putting themselves out

(01:02:43):
there, man, there's going to be incomingbecause there's a need out there.
And everybody's struggling, man.
It's relative to you wherever you're at.
Actually, brother, and I'm not trying to plugit, this is why I just launched this book.
Oh, sweet.
Called The Four Other Authors of HolisticMedicine.
It's called Healthy for Life.

(01:03:03):
Go ahead and read the title for people just inaudio format.

Yeah, Healthy for Life (01:03:09):
Foundational Skills for Parents, Teachers, Mentors, and Kids That They
Love.
Literally, it's a cookbook.
So it's got everybody's story in there.
I've been very blessed that I was able tocontribute two of the chapters.
Oh, wow.

(01:03:29):
One with the actual main author and head of thebook.
We did one on sleep together, and then theother one is "It's Chaos to Calm," and it
brings in everything we just talked about, thenervous system and how I saw that in my own
daughter.
I recognize it within my military members,leadership, as well as those around me, and

(01:03:51):
simple things that we can do to start shiftingthat and retraining the nervous system.
Wow.
So I'll send a link, brother.
Yeah, please do.
And now, how can everyone find you?
Are you on social media, a website, you want tojust plug your stuff?
Yeah, sure, man.
I appreciate you setting the platform here.
So brand new to the whole social media piece,not following it, actually posting my own

(01:04:17):
stuff.
Because I've just been serving those membersthat are serving.
But with the book and some other stuff, so it'sobviously www.patricknardooly, full name, see
it on the board here, nospaces.com.
That platform will be coming out here shortly.

(01:04:37):
And then my LinkedIn, you can find me, reachout anytime.
As well as I got a Facebook out there, but Igot another one for business, and I'll be
putting that up there shortly.
And then doing some great collaborations, man.
I'm up and down the coast.
Jordan, I hope you're part of that.
Would love to be plugged
into anything that I can be of service on yourmission because this is really where my passion

(01:04:59):
is, and I'm just doing shit on my own.
So please, I'd love to help.
Yeah.
I'm in, in, so, you know, man, I'm just, any,anything I can do to elevate somebody else that
cares about our service members or anybody elsestruggling out there, I'm gonna give, give
openly.
It's just who I
Well, thank you.
Cool.

(01:05:19):
Well, this has been an awesome episode withPatrick Nardooley, the Mind Body Mushroom.
Like and subscribe, give us a follow.
We're on all platforms, and, yeah, we'll dropthis in about probably two weeks is when this
episode will come out.
So I'll keep you posted, but yeah.