Ep. 27 | Why This Retired Cop Tried Ayahuasca for PTSD | Officer Mike Morgan

Jordan Ryan engages with Mike Morgan to explore his transition from law enforcement to embracing plant medicine. Mike shares his experiences with the emotional toll of policing, trauma, and PTSD, leading to his discovery of Ayahuasca. They discuss the stigma surrounding plant-based medicines and the profound personal transformation Mike experienced during his first Ayahuasca ceremony. The conversation touches on CBD-infused coffee, legalities, and benefits, as well as the importance of integration post-ceremony. Mike reflects on evolving perceptions of strength, vulnerability, and community support. The episode emphasizes the potential of plant medicine to challenge big pharma and promote healing.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome back to the Mind Body Mushroom, thepodcast where we explore holistic health,
personal growth, and the mindset shifts thatdrive high performance.
I'm your host, Jordan Ryan.
And as always, this episode is brought to youby Wind and Sea Coffee, Adaptogen Coffee for
coffee lovers.
We craft the world's best-tasting mushroomcoffee to fuel both the body and mind because

(00:22):
good habits don't have to suck.
My guest today is Mike Morgan, a retired lawenforcement officer who spent nearly three
decades on the front lines, first with theAtlanta PD and then with Suffolk County PD in
New York.
Like many who serve, Mike carried the weight ofthat experience long after the badge came off.
After retiring in 2022, he was met with theheavy realities of PTSD, depression, and

(00:47):
unresolved trauma, things we talk about oftenon the show.
But instead of staying stuck in that pain, Mikeleans into the work.
His healing began with plant medicine,specifically Ayahuasca, and then that journey
cracked open something deeper.
It not only helped him process what he had beencarrying, but it gave him a renewed sense of
purpose.
Today, Mike is dedicating his life to helpingother veterans and first responders find their

(01:11):
own path to healing through these powerfulmodalities.
This is a raw, honest, and importantconversation about trauma, trust, and
transformation.
Mike, welcome to the show.
Jordan, thank you very much for having me.
It's an honor and a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, thank you for sharing your time with us,man.
Absolutely.
You spent nearly 30 years in law enforcement.

(01:31):
If you could go back and sit with yourself onday one of the job, knowing everything that
you've, like, been through, what would you say?
Great question.
I was actually speaking to someone about thatearlier today, asking him the same question.
What
would I say?
I think there are many things that I would say,but one is do not lose yourself because it is

(01:53):
super, super easy.
You are going to be surrounded by death anddestruction literally from the get-go.
Within my first hour of coming out of fieldtraining, being on the street, I saw my first
homicide.
It only got worse from there.
So I would tell myself the importance ofmaintaining mental health and awareness and
processing the traumas that I saw instead ofjust burying them, compartmentalizing, we call

(02:17):
it, because eventually that Pandora's box isgonna open up, man.
It's not gonna be pretty when it does.
Yeah.
You know, we had Matt Domiancik on the show.
I'll introduce you guys if you aren't familiar,but he's also a former law enforcement and
talks a lot about how, you know, trying to movethe intervention from right of bang to left of

(02:40):
bang.
You know, so it seems like, I mean, even in themilitary as well, but there's been at least a
little bit more time and attention given to,you know, preventative health, mental health
awareness, normalizing talking about thesethings.
But within the law enforcement first respondercommunity, it still feels like it's fairly

(03:01):
reactive.
It happens after you have some incidents wherenow they got to take your gun and your badge
and you got to go speak to the counselors kindof deal.
Almost like a punitive way, you know, asopposed to getting ahead of it.
You know, did you kind of experience a similarreality of life on the force?

(03:24):
Yeah.
I mean, that is reality, by the way.
So your part portion of your podcast with Mattwas a great podcast, very intelligent guy, very
informative.
But, yeah, I mean, that's reality.
Reality is, and unfortunately to this day, thata lot of times guys go to seek help.
And I think the stigma is starting to getreleased and departments are becoming more
proactive.
But back in the day, man, when you sought help,a lot of times your gun was taken and you were

(03:47):
taken off the street.
I myself never really experienced anything whenI was active.
Mine was more along the lines of retirement,when I had time to think.
And that's where things started building up forme.
But I saw plenty of incidents where guys wentto ask for help.
Or excuse me, guys should have or were going toask for help.
And then they saw examples of others who didand then got that punitive treatment.

(04:11):
And it dissuaded them from doing so.
Who wants a gun and badge taken away from
It's part of your identity.
Everyone knows what's going on.
So they all delve into your personal life.
Well, policing is like wash women, man.
The gossiping that goes on is incredible.
I'm sure it's the same in the military, buteveryone knows their fucking business,
unfortunately.

(04:31):
Yeah, yeah.
A hundred percent.
So let's back up a little bit, but I kind ofwant to ask you your bio in a different way.
So if someone were to like write yourbiography, you know, what would be like the
main plot line?
How would you kind of tell your story?
And I wanna dive into some of the experiencesthat you experienced on the force because that

(04:54):
I'm sure contributed to the main conflict,right?
Yeah, my bio.
I guess I got into it's funny because growingup, I had no intention of ever getting into law
enforcement.
My father was a cop for one year in the NYPD,then he rolled over, they call it, to FDNY
where he was a fireman for the next thirty-fiveyears.

(05:14):
We did thirty-six total.
And growing up, his whole thing was my kid'snever gonna take a civil service exam.
He wanted a white-collar job for both of us.
My sister became an attorney.
I actually have an accounting degree fromHofstra University.
Oh, first day, yeah, first day I started mycorporate job back in, I guess, October '1.
I'm taking Long Island Railroad to train intoManhattan.

(05:36):
Not excited at all.
I was like so flat.
And I'm kind of asking myself, man, like, whyaren't you more excited?
Like, this is the first day of the rest of yourlife, new career, this and that.
So I get introduced to a bunch of associates,bosses, and I'm given a task about 11
And all of a sudden, I wake up.
I fall asleep with my head on my hands.
First day, three hours on a I get up,immediately walked over to another cubicle.

(05:58):
A student seemed really cool that I just met.
Like, hey brother, you like this shit?
He's like, fuck no, hate it.
I'm like, there's no way I'm sitting in acubicle for the next thirty-five years of my
life, making no difference to anybody.
No one's gonna know whether I even lived ordied, except for my close family and friends.
And that's when I started getting a littleintrospective about what I wanted to do with my
life.
Law enforcement became came to the forefront.

(06:20):
I decided that was it.
I wanted to go to the FBI at the time, but theywere in a federal hiring freeze.
So that's actually how I got into lawenforcement.
I applied to the Atlanta Police Department.
And with the intention of making, you know, alittle bit of a difference in life, it's not
like you're going to stop crime or anythinglike that.
But, you know, I wanted to help people.
I hated bullying growing up.

(06:40):
You know, I wanted to protect as many people asI could.
So I went into it with pure and nobleintentions.
Now, so you're in Atlanta, you kind of, youknow, you're a new guy on the force.
And you mentioned a second ago that, you know,like, first day on the job, you're dealing with
your first homicide.

(07:00):
What was that like?
Yeah.
It was crazy.
Was actually two.
So we finished the academy.
We didn't graduate until field training wasover.
So we finished on a Monday.
The next day, Tuesday, I'm starting fieldtraining.
I was working midnights.
So we start 11 p.m.
to 7 a.m.
So I go to work Tuesday night, 11
By 12 a.m., I get brought to my first homicidescene by my FTO, field training officer.

(07:24):
And it was a very interesting story.
It was an Atlanta fire captain who was just onsuspension for sexual allegations with him
against younger girls.
Oh, shit.
So on this particular night, they were provento be true.
He had picked up a prostitute.
She was 16 years old.
I guess he had a crack problem because he wentto buy a rock.
Pulls up to the local dope boy on the corner.

(07:45):
And this is crazy, man.
You talk about the universe at work.
The dope boy looks in the car, and who does hesee but his 16-year-old cousin who's the
prostitute?
Pulls out his gun, boom, one to the head, killsthe fire captain.
It was crazy.
I get to see him, man.
There's brain matter everywhere.
You know, I can't say it's something thatreally affected me negatively.

(08:06):
When I look back, as far as dope boys, my thingwas they chose to be there.
It's a violent profession.
Whatever happens to you guys, you knew thatgoing in.
So that was something that never really, hateto say it, never affected me negatively.
But that was, you know, critical incidentnumber one within the first hour.
Four hours later, my partner pulled into aparking lot.

(08:26):
He's taking a little nap.
And we get a 15.4, which is a shootingambulance en route.
Was so funny because he's snoring with the seatreclined.
Before I could say his name, the seat was up,the car was in park, he hits the gas, and he
answered the call.
I'm like, holy shit.
So we get to that call, second guy, DOA.
Eyes were open.
He was flat on the pavement looking up.
And I always I can't tell you how manyhomicides I've been to.

(08:48):
But my thought process was, man, five minutesago, this cat was alive and living his life.
And that was my first night on the job.
Two homicides.
My fellow rookie was in my academy mate wasthere with his FTO.
I look at him.
I'm like, O'Neil, what the fuck do we getourselves into?
Because it only got crazier.
Truth being told, I loved it, man.
I was an adrenaline junkie.

(09:09):
But it was insane.
Right, so that was kind of something I wasgonna ask is maybe, you know, we can, I'll save
this, you know, for a little bit later, but Iwanna ask how maybe you changed as a person or
your mentality from the guy that was on thepolice force to the guy that was, you know,

(09:30):
kind of retired and figuring out this nextchapter.
So, I mean, adrenaline junkie, that was clear,counting was not it.
You know, were you having like fun?
I guess that's maybe a weird way of putting it.
But were you like kind of digging theexcitement of what was going on while you were
there?
Oh, I loved it.
Yeah.
Loved it.

(09:50):
I can't tell you, you know, you're a militarymember.
Yeah.
There's nothing like chasing, yeah, huntinganother man, there's nothing like it.
You know, evil men, hunting evil men.
I mean, it gets into your soul, man.
I loved it.
I love chase.
My thing was stolen cars and running dope.
So I was constantly getting in foot chases, carchases.

(10:11):
I loved it.
You know, I trained with a guy, so I was verycomfortable with extreme violence in terms of
fighting.
So it was nothing I feared.
Loved it.
I told one of my supervisors one day, I'm like,I'll do this shit for free.
But it gets old quickly as well.
Yeah.
So, I mean, when did it start kinda gettingold?
And was there like a specific incident that youwere kinda like, whoa, this is a little

(10:33):
different.
This isn't like, you know, people choosing alife of crime kind of experiencing the
consequences of their actions versus like thevictimization of the innocent in an opinion and
being like, damn, I have to be the front linethere.
I would say in terms of it changing, you justget burnt out.

(10:54):
I mean, I was handling, you know, I was onevening watch, and it would not be out of the
ordinary to be handling 30 calls a night.
So when I went to day par, I thought it'd be alot less.
We were still banging out 15 to 20 calls, itwas just constant, constant, constant.
And to answer your other portion, the thingthat did affect me was dealing with good people

(11:19):
and seeing whatever it may be, death,destruction, or just bad luck coming into their
lives.
I remember, for instance, my first time I hadto apply CPR, I got called to an unresponsive
11-year-old.
And in Atlanta, when I was with Suffolk County,we were basic EMTs, so we had a lot more

(11:41):
medical training.
In Atlanta, it was literally, I think just CPRwas the extent of my training.
But I get to this house, and it's a mother,grandmother, and aunt in a room, in a living
room, and it's 11-year-old in the room, eyesopen, lying on his back.
They're all in hysterics.
I feel him.
He's close to the touch.
I knew he's dead.
No one's going to help this kid, but there's noway I was not going to work him until

(12:03):
paramedics got there.
So I'm doing CPR.
And they had liquid coming up closer and closerto his mouth as I'm doing compressions.
I'm like, oh, shit.
Unadoptable.
What the fuck is that?
Should not be there.
So as those guys are rolling in, the paramedicscome in, I turn him on his side and liquid just
pours out of this kid's mouth.
Well, it turns out he died of bacterialmeningitis.
So obviously, ladies, you know, their lives arenever going to be the same again.

(12:25):
And I remember I had to transport one.
Two jumped in the ambulance.
They still transported the kid.
And she's like, officer, please tell me.
Please tell me he's gonna be right. And onething I always told rookies, you never promise
something that
right. And know you cannot deliver.
all right. So I said, ma'am, I promise youthey'll work on him as hard as they can.
all I would never say he's gonna be
right. And know you cannot deliver.
all right. So I said, ma'am, I promise youthey'll work on him as hard as they can.
all I would never say he's gonna be
all right.
And you know, we got to the hospital.
They delivered the news.

(12:46):
Had I not have to get a they had to give me amassive dose of antibiotics and told me
essentially to quarantine for 48 hours.
It was very low likelihood that we'd transmitfrom a child to an adult, but I still had to do
that.
Had that not been the case, and I was going togo back in service, I would have been back in
service a half hour later after seeing andgoing through that.

(13:06):
No time to process it, talking to no one, justgoing on to the next bullshit call, wherever it
was.
And you're supposed to like flip the switch onand off.
You know, I'm back at normal.
You know, I didn't just experience or see whatI just saw.
This 4- or 11-year-old kid and these women's,you know, having a life turned upside down.
Those three lives were before they met MikeMorgan and after they met Mike Morgan.

(13:28):
You know?
And that's the thing.
And that I always had the mistaken belief thatPTSD was only caused by seeing your brother or
sister next to you killed.
My mind was being inside the most devastatinglyintimate moments of other people's lives.
Yeah, you know, that's something I was gonnaask was, you know, do you talk a little bit
about how a lot of people kind of associatePTSD with just being these traumatic

(13:53):
experiences, you know, seeing death,destruction and without a doubt there, I'm sure
there is a component of that to it.
But what I've been finding in a lot of talkingwith a lot of people is that sometimes the PTSD
comes from other sources or it's like, it's notwhat you expect, especially if you kind of go
into it with a mindset.

(14:14):
They're like, I'm signing up for a job thatincludes death and destruction.
Like seeing death and destruction, yeah, maybeyou're not ready for the reality of it, but you
do have some sort of sense of what it is you'restepping into.
Whereas it feels like often it's like thesurprises, you know, that pop up and that's

(14:34):
what becomes such a challenge to cope with.
Where do you think the root of the real traumathat you had to deal with later, and we'll get
into that, but where do you think the root ofthat trauma came from?
You know, I think we all bring trauma.
Listen, no one's just escaping life's punchesunscathed.
So I'd love Rocky's speech to his son, RockyBalboa, where he talks about life hitting hard

(14:57):
and no one being able to duck those punches.
Because I don't care how rich you are, howgood-looking you are, how tough you are, how
funny you are.
It does not matter, man.
No one's escaping the trauma of life.
And looking back now, I had a very contentiousrelationship with my father.
I think that's a very
was waiting
for it, dude.
Very big.
But I didn't realize it until I started thishealing journey.

(15:18):
It is the overwhelming majority of guys havenot had good relationships with their pops.
And I think I don't know if it's us trying toprove ourselves to them, or us fortifying
ourselves to not let anyone hurt us again.
Maybe a combination thereof.
But you know, I learned he was mentallyabusive.
My father's deceased.

(15:39):
I feel bad talking about it sometimes, but it'sreality.
So I must address it.
You know, there was mental abuse there.
And I learned early to kind of compartmentalizethat stuff and calloused up as a result,
because I was a very sensitive kid.
And it just kind of fortified itself going intothis profession.
It was easy for me to do, to be honest withyou.

(16:01):
Compartmentalize, you know, and I just in oneear out the other or what I saw just bam, in
and out.
And again, it never really affected me while Iwas active.
It was afterwards that it struck me the way itdid.
Right.
Did you have any coping mechanisms while youwere in that was, you know, what were your what
were your coping mechanisms?

(16:21):
You know, physically, I always ate well.
I always trained.
You know, always kept a good shape.
As far as talking about things, you know, maybewhen we all went out at night, we were
drinking, we would be asked about it.
But nothing, no, like, true impactful mentalprocesses.
You know, I wasn't journaling.

(16:42):
I wasn't talking to anyone on any regularbasis.
You know, you just literally just push it downand you go on to the next.
And I never thought about it, to be honest withyou.
It was just that was my normality.
That was my normal.
Right.
Right.
So, I mean, most people after they retire, theykind of relax.
You know, what made you jump headfirst intoAyahuasca and plant medicine, psychedelics in

(17:05):
general?
Actually I didn't it was definitely a timeperiod.
So I got hurt in September of 2020.
I blew out my back, herniated four discs.
So we tried to serve the children for the firstsix What's that?
I have a similar story.
Yeah.
Similar
story.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sorry to throw you off.
But that's the greatest thing in the world,isn't it?
So it's so commonplace with us in theseprofessions.

(17:28):
But yeah.
So we tried to put her with treatments.
That didn't work.
So I got a laminectomy in April of 2021.
Make sure it's some of the problems.
But my neurosurgeon's like, listen, you'reprobably looking at a spinal fusion down the
line.
We're gonna try to put it off as much aspossible.
But so I recouped from the laminectomy, and Iwent back to work six months later in October.

(17:49):
Literally was working for three days.
I was on a desk, light duty, and I justcouldn't do it.
Went to my CO.
I'm like, you know, inspecting, you know, I'mnot a punk.
I'm like, I would be on the street right now ifI could.
I hate the desk, number one, but I can't do it,man.
And I think I'm going to have to get the secondsurgery.
So I went back, started doing a few moretreatments that we were trying, like epidurals,
nerve ablations, you know, everything you doprior to that surgery.

(18:12):
And nothing was working.
So I got the spinal fusion April 22, gotretired that following October.
Now during this two-year time period, I'm notallowed to work.
I'm not allowed to volunteer.
Not allowed to go to the gym.
I built one in my basement, but you're notallowed to do anything.
Have a unit that follows guys.
They videotape them.
They catch you getting into the car toosmoothly, they'll produce that as evidence.

(18:32):
Like, see, this guy isn't hurt.
Meanwhile, you know, had confronted MRIs.
You know, at the time, I'm 54 years old, 400unit disc, one surgery, going in for another
surgery.
It's not like I'm making this stuff up.
So, you know, I started getting these feelingsof anger, depression.
I just was not feeling myself.

(18:52):
Yeah.
But I'm very self-aware.
You know, I knew I wasn't happy, but I was notsure of the origination.
And looking back now, it was, you know, eventhough I wasn't retired yet, I'm no longer this
thing.
I'm no longer part of this thing.
I was 30 years.
The brotherhood's gone for me because, youknow, when you're out, man, that phone's not
out of sight, out of mind.
Totally.
It sucks, but it's the truth.

(19:14):
And you guys really need to lend a lot ofcredence to the fact that these factors are
going to weigh on you heavily if you do notprocess them.
Yep.
And I didn't I didn't realize what was coming,to be honest with you.
So right.
As I spoke about, April 23, I sat down.
It was a nice spring day.

(19:35):
Lived on Long Island at the time, smacked down.
I set up my iPad.
I'm watching a Shawn Ryan podcast.
And he's interviewing a man named Eddie Penney.
He's a former SEAL Team Six guy.
And he's recounting the story of the Extortion17 incident in which a Chinook got down in
Afghanistan, got shot down by insurgents, hitit with an RPG.
Seventeen SEALs were killed and 38 soldierswere aboard.

(19:55):
At the time, and it still may be the law, thatwas the largest loss of SEALs in the history of
their community.
And then Eddie's talking about escorting hisbest friend Jason Workman's body back to his
hometown.
So as he's telling the story, he's visiblyupset, rightly so.
And I started concurrently thinking about acall that I had five years before about a

(20:16):
beautiful 2-year-old girl found floating in apool named Dana Sikorsky.
And I just lost it.
I started crying like a baby.
And my first reaction, still blows me away tothis day, was I looked in the house to make
sure my wife would not come home from foodshopping, because I was so embarrassed to be
crying.
Wow.
And it's funny, because my wife's a life coach.
She's been on this higher consciousness thingfor years.

(20:37):
Do it above me and encourage me to let it out.
Right.
But man, we don't show weak, you know, showingemotion is weakness.
We don't do that.
Right.
And I instantaneously kind of realized, man,with a snap of a finger, I'm like, I think you
have PTSD.
I think that's what's going on.
And I realized, I'm like, fuck this, man.
Life is too short.
I am not walking around with this the rest ofmy life.

(20:58):
You know, I'm like, I need help.
But I did not think that talking to atraditional counselor, man or woman sitting by
a desk, and I'm going to tell them what I'vedone, what I've seen, and they're going to be
able to help me.
Right.
Just I didn't think it was going to bepossible.
And prior to, and from that point on, notpaying attention.

(21:18):
I'd seen guys talking about using plant-basedmedicines to heal.
And, you know, these are some of the strongestmentally fortitude men in the world.
Special operators, you know, Delta, GreenBerets, SEALs, PJs.
And these guys are all talking about callingback from men broken from war broken men.
I'm like, who the fuck am I?
I'd be pessimistic about this.

(21:39):
These guys are talking about healing them.
And that was it.
I decided Ayahuasca was going to be the routethat I was going to approach.
And my wife and I moved out of Florida inDecember of
During the course of that move, my wife—she'sthe best researcher in the world—had found a
facility no longer in existence, but it wascalled Soul Quest Ayahuasca Church in Orlando.

(22:01):
And last March 1, we went down and journeyed.
It was a three-day weekend.
And I can honestly say, on the first Fridaynight journey, my life was literally changed
forever.
What I experienced is inexplicable.
For people who have been through it, theyunderstand.
People who don't, it's like, anytime I speakabout it, as soon as I talk about it, I take

(22:25):
the words, do all the magic.
dunno.
It's inexplicable.
It's the most profound, cathartic thing I'veever experienced in my life.
It changed me.
You know, changed my soul.
It changed, changed me as a man.
Now, had you ever experienced psychedelicsbefore that?
Or no.
Smoked weed or anything like that?
Probably, probably not.
You were, you know, a cop.

(22:46):
Well, never don't say that because there'splenty of that out.
But, yeah, I was not like I got to reallyexperiment with drugs.
I smoked weed in high school.
Yeah.
I'm fervently
And, you know, that's another thing for, youknow, because a lot of people are down on this
medicine.
It's, I think, the funniest thing that there'sa stigma for plant-based medicines, natural
medicines that have been used for thousands ofyears.
But when you talk about a first responder or avet that's been put on, in one case I was

(23:12):
talking to a Green Beret, he was on 17medications.
There's no stigma for putting him on 17medications.
But when he's talking about healing withplant-based medicines, everyone's like, what,
are you kidding me using drugs?
Dude, 100%.
So my first product was CBD-infused coffee.
And the reason why is because I went to collegeat the University of Oregon, like I, you know,

(23:36):
had done psychedelics, smoked weed, all thestuff.
But while I was in, was, you know, I couldn'tuse any of it.
Then I got injured and I was kind of ridingthis med separation out, going through all the
same shit, losing your reputation, losing youridentity, losing your mobility.
You know, I'm like, I'm never gonna fucking doall this shit.
You're like, I took pride in the fact that Iwas like an animal, you know?

(23:58):
Yeah.
And now I'm fragile, I'm delicate, and myreputation is taking a hit.
So, you know, it was really tough.
But if I had decided on a Friday night to justgo hit the bars, get absolutely shit-faced,
like, no one would have said anything.
That was, in fact, it would have been like, Iwould have been there with my friends doing
that, you know?
But if I wanted to, like, stay home, sit on thecouch, eat an edible, and watch a movie, I

(24:21):
would lose my job, my benefits, likeeverything, my healthcare, all sorts of shit.
So, you know, I remember thinking about that atthe time being like, dude, what the fuck?
This is such a, you know, it's such a backwardskind of, you know, system, but, you know, so
CBD was sort of this, like, I kind of saw it aslike a loophole in a way.

(24:42):
Like, I can get maybe the medicinal benefits ofcannabis, but I'm not breaking any rule because
I'm not gonna risk my job over, you know, therest of my life and all these benefits, you
know.
And so then I started getting relief from,like, anxiety.
I was sleeping a little bit better.
It helps with inflammation, but I was stilltaking, like, tinctures and shit.

(25:04):
Like I wasn't really like, I'd forget to takethem.
They tasted bad.
So I created this product initially.
And then I was like, I remember thinking tomyself, I'm so stoked to share this with my
active duty friends because, you know, theycan, you know, everyone's dealing with this
shit.
You don't just have to be in, we're allinjured.
That's true.
It's just like, you know, what's gonna be thestraw that breaks my back, literally in my

(25:28):
case, but you know, and then shortly after Ihad separated, they made this policy, like for
all federal employees, military, etc., that CBDwas off limits.
Really?
Dude.
Think it's still this date, even though there'sa federal, it's federally legal, you can have,

(25:49):
you know, it's through the 2018 Farm Bill, allCBD is, it's federally legal, so it's legal in
all 50 states.
But for whatever reason, they just made like apolicy.
My guess, and I don't know this for a fact, butmy guess is because I figured guys were maybe
like smoking weed or something, and then they'dpiss hot and be like, Oh shit, it must be the
CBD I'm taking, you know, because it's liketechnically possible, but like, you know, and

(26:15):
then they weren't going to change the drug testfor it.
They still don't test for CBD, but they sort ofjust made this like blanket rule that just was
like, you know what?
All right, wise guy, like, we're just going tomake a. But
to make a. But to your point, and the reason Iwent on this whole diatribe is that like,
they'll fucking mail you a bag full of pillsand then pills for the side effects of those
pills.

(26:36):
And then you could, they'll just, your brainwill melt to mush and don't worry, they have a
nice VA medical facility that they can, youknow, lock you up in for the rest of your life.
But, you know, if you try going down anaturalistic homeopathic path, I mean, got to
be careful if you talk to your doctor and say,yeah, even if you're out and you're like, hey,

(26:58):
I use THC products, that could affect, youknow, what medications they give you, whatnot,
what, you know, so it's totally backwards,dude.
Yeah.
But okay, cool.
So can you walk me through like, even just thelogistics, I guess, of your first ceremony that
you went through?
It was in land that you kind of found thisspot.

(27:19):
Take it away.
Yeah.
So we found the spot, and the way that theyused to have their retreats was you would drink
on a Friday night.
You could drink, it's an optional Saturdaymorning, and then Saturday night as well.
So it was three ceremonies.
And it's very sacred medicine.
I can say this is very sacred.
There are beautiful ceremonial things that theydo every time that you're about to drink.

(27:42):
And again, they've been going on for thousandsof years.
And for people that know, is the crazy thingabout Ayahuasca.
So Ayahuasca is sourced from two vines.
And if you don't use both in conjunction witheach other, there are no psychedelic effects.
They're, you know, inert, essentially.
And there are 80,000 vines in the Amazon River,the Amazon Forest.

(28:03):
The fact that someone thousands of years agowas told by some higher power to use these two
in conjunction with each other, because theywould not work any other way, should tell you
all you need to know.
Right.
Tell me that there's not a higher power at workhere.
Right.
And essentially, all you do for the preparationis they boil them down over a long period of
time.
I've heard some guys' formula is as short aslike 15 hours, others as long as 40-something

(28:28):
hours.
But they're essentially boiling it down.
And you get a liquid, you're going to drain outthe impurities of the liquid, and the Ayahuasca
is what you're to drink.
So you
go there and it's the dynamic is pretty funnybecause I got there and, you know, you get a
lot of what's the word I want to use here?
I don't know if hippies use the word, butyou're not looking at, you know, I'm used to

(28:52):
hanging out with alpha males, and it's it's notthat.
You'll see some, but so we get there Friday.
I'm like, what the fuck am I doing?
This ain't my gig.
And by Sunday night, you're hugging everyone.
Everyone knows about everyone else's deepest,darkest, most intimate secrets.
It's like beautiful.
Right.
Right.
But, you know, we sit down Friday night and wedrink.
For me, it usually takes about 45 minutes or soto kind of kick in.

(29:14):
And the ground started moving in my journey.
I'm like, ah, here we go.
And all the colors that you see become like themost vivid, dynamic colors you can see.
Usually see geometric patterns, which is likethe craziest thing, because most people act on
that sentiment.
Yeah.
And most people also say that they sense afemale presence.
They call her Mother or Mother Ayahuasca.
And it was the same for me.

(29:35):
It was my first experience was essentially asthough I was looking at a big-screen TV in the
sky and Mother was in the left-hand corner.
And I remember I had my arms like open wide.
I was I was crying.
So I get emotional sometimes.
And I was like, I need help.
I'm like, I need to get rid of this anger andjust rage, just hate.
Please, I don't know what to do.
And it was like everything I asked for was justgranted and like a snap of like, I was just

(29:59):
getting lighter and lighter and lighter.
And during the course of the ceremony, she wasbringing my father to me and he didn't show.
And I'm going to throw my hands up in the air.
I'm like, fucking coward.
I knew he wouldn't show.
We can't talk about emotion.
But the 55 years of everything between he and Iat that point was just gone.
There's like no emotional charge to thememories anymore.

(30:19):
Was crazy.
Wow.
And, you know, I got so many messages.
One of them was I kind of disappeared into thinair.
I got medically retired.
So I was gone for two years.
Yeah.
You know, there's no goodbyes.
There was no retirement party.
Just kind of disappeared.
And I guess I wasn't at peace with the factthat I was no longer this thing.

(30:40):
And she told me, she's like, you are no longerthis thing.
You know, it's you did your job.
It's on to the next generation.
You know, just be at peace with what you did.
She's like, everything that's inside you is nolonger up here.
It's down here.
If you need it, you will always be thatwarrior.
But you don't need everything that comes withit.
Because guys ask me like, bro, will I lose myedge?

(31:02):
Right.
Like, no, man.
If you got to get down, you're still going toget down.
Yeah.
But you're going to get down with a little moreempathy in your heart.
Right.
And I remember I was watching the volunteersand I'm like, I want to be like these people.
And I always associated strength with likephysical strength, physical stature, fighting
ability.
Yeah, maybe there's a place for that.
But I'm watching them.
It was so loving and graceful, just helping us.

(31:24):
I'm like, I want to be like them.
But I'm like, I'm crying as I'm saying this.
Like, that's what I want to be like.
And there's, like, empathy put into my heart.
It was like the craziest life. And
of my life. And just came out of it with, like,so much more empathy for everything.
Right.
And I can't explain it.

(31:47):
I just, as I'm coming out of Journey two, it'sa very important part that I skipped.
Two coworkers of mine from Suffolk County PDhad committed suicide three weeks before.
A week apart, the sergeant killed himself in aprecinct locker room.
And I never had any intention whatsoever ofgetting into the space.
But clearly, as you and I were talking, aretalking, the universe was like, you're healed.
You know, it's not linear.

(32:07):
Obviously, you still have ebbs and flows, butyour life's purpose now is to go forth and help
other first responders and vets heal theirs.
And I literally said it out loud, okay.
Wasn't sure how it was going to be implemented,but I'm like, I now have my life's purpose.
And man, Jordan, I'll tell you, like, I cameout of that.
My wife and I were kind of separated.
They encouraged couples not to stay close toeach other so you don't get distracted.

(32:30):
So I saw my wife a few hours later and I waslike, I can't believe it just happened.
Like, it was the most profound cathartic thingagain that's ever happened to me.
I was a changed man instantaneously in fourhours.
That's incredible.
Now, what was your spiritual background, Iguess, maybe prior to that?
Were you a man of faith or maybe more atheist,new age, whatever?

(32:54):
But, you know, how did this sort of relate towhere you were prior to your experience?
I was raised Roman Catholic, and I kind of fellout of—I don't wanna say out of love, but I
kinda fell out of the organized religion.
Mhmm.
After seeing the priest abuse scandals, like,this is disgusting.

(33:14):
And, you know, in my head, religion was just away to kind of control people, organized
religion.
Mhmm.
So I consider myself spiritual, maybe not—I'mnot that religious.
You know, I believe in God, and I have my ownrelationship with Him.
But yeah.
You know, I'm not a Bible thumper, and I don't,you know, I don't put anything on people who
are extremely religious as their deal.

(33:35):
Definitely not mine.
And through all my journeys with Ayahuasca,I've always sensed that it's the universe
talking to me as opposed to God himself.
A lot of people get religious affiliations intheir journeys.
I've not had that.
So, you know, but I felt like the universe hasbeen speaking to me directly.
Right.

(33:55):
Now I hear sometimes that people can have avery profound experience, you know, within a
short period of time of the trip, like yourAyahuasca ceremony, but that, you know, the
integration piece is almost as important as theactual experience itself.

(34:20):
You know, how did that integration piece go foryou?
Were you able to kind of keep all the momentumthat you had built going, or did you struggle a
little bit with not reverting back to maybesome of the ways you felt prior?
Yeah, it's a good question.
And first off, I want to point out that it'snot the medicine that heals you.

(34:41):
You know, everything is internal.
The medicine kind of breaks down the walls thathave been surrounding you.
Theo Bond's got the best definition ever.
I'm glad you said that.
Said, Ayahuasca gives you the keys to unlockthe doors to the rooms in which you've been
trapped.
So, you know, as miraculous as it's been, it'snot like Ayahuasca changed me, and I'm going to
be forever fine.

(35:01):
Integration is super important.
You know, the integration the day after, Ithink, is a beautiful thing when you're at the
facility, because everyone talks about whatbrought them there, their experience, and what
they want to do forward.
And you're talking about some of the mostdevastatingly intimate things you could call,
you know, sexual abuse.
I mean, it's some profound pain that peopleexperience.

(35:22):
But, and dude, I can't tell you how many timesI've cried hearing other people's stories.
But, you know, to me, it's cathartic in its ownway for everyone to hear everyone else's
stories.
But, yeah, you need to, it's beautiful that ithelps you.
And I think it catapults.
It's like 10 years of therapy in one weekend.
Right.

(35:42):
But you need to, and sometimes I fall off thehorse myself.
You need to have other methods, whether it'sjournaling, you know, whether it's reading
books.
You know, you need to stay, and obviouslyeating healthy, staying in the gym.
Mhmm.
The medicine itself is not going to keep you ontrack.
You need to stay on track or else you will fallback into bad habits.

(36:06):
You know, it's like a catapult to get you whereyou need to be, but it's incumbent upon you to
stay there.
And, you know, I was actually just journaling.
I just started journaling today.
I don't know why I've been putting it off forso long, but I still have an anger problem here
and there.
Nothing crazy.
But, you know, I was journaling and readingwhat you're feeling, I don't know, man.

(36:26):
It's just it hits you in a different way whenyou're reading what you wrote as opposed to
just thinking about it.
And I think it's a great thing, especially formen.
You don't have to tell anyone.
You know, it's your own thing.
You write in your journal.
You can read your journal.
It's like you have to share it with anyone elseif, you know, something you don't want to do.
Right.
You know, we're very, very suspect—notsuspect—we're very tough on ourselves, again,

(36:51):
vulnerable.
And, you know, stuff to do.
That's probably the biggest thing that I takeaway from Ayahuasca is let me be vulnerable.
And I remember doing a Facebook Live theTuesday after we got back.
It's like thirty-five minutes.
I kinda was telling everyone what I was goingthrough, and I was crying.
And I got done with it.
And I told my wife, I'm like, I never wouldhave been able to do this prior to Ayahuasca.

(37:13):
And had I done so, I would have been soembarrassed about being about crying.
But I was so proud of myself.
I got three calls the next day from goodfriends who were going through it.
I had no idea.
One of which had a gun in his mouth in a nottoo distant past blew me away.
And I told my wife, I'm like, this is where I'msupposed to be.
Yeah.
Because you have no idea what's going on inanyone else's head, man.
People let you see what they want you to see ofthem.

(37:34):
Yeah.
So true, man.
It's so true.
And I think like, we're building a movementjust by talking about it because, you know,
there's nothing that you are saying or I havesaid or any of my guests that has been like
completely new in a sense.
No.
But it's like, it's just, you don't know whatthe right message is that's going to affect the

(38:00):
one person.
If you can affect one person and save oneperson's life, you know, and make change and be
like, hey, you know, I resonate with the wayMike put it, you know, and I think that's how
you really create this like groundswellmovement that is gonna change, you know, the
way honestly fucking society of the world, youknow?

(38:21):
Yeah.
Now with That's true.
With regard to journaling, how do what's like aif you were to give somebody kind of who had
never really heard of journaling or like, howdo I start?
I don't have anything to fucking say.
What do I write about?
You know, what would you tell them?
How would how could you maybe get them going onthat path?
I would say we all have something to say.
And you absolutely have something to say.

(38:44):
How are you feeling?
And you're probably in, you know, if we'retalking about journaling, you're probably in a
space right now where you're feeling something,whether it's angst, anxiety, depression, or
whatever it may be.
Mhmm.
Write it down, man.
Just write.
Literally just talk about your feelings.
Right.
You know?
And try to figure out, if you can, the sourceof those feelings.
You know?
And this is the hardest thing to do.

(39:06):
Be honest with yourself.
Because listen, man.
Looking in that mirror and being honest withyourself is the hardest thing we could do,
especially as men.
Why are you feeling the way you're feeling?
Have you put yourself there?
You know, can you get yourself out?
If you can't, raise your hand and ask for help.
Because that's the one thing, man.
No one is coming to your house and throwing youover their shoulder.

(39:26):
You have to raise your hand and ask for help.
I did.
But there's help out there.
But I will tell you one thing.
Like, if you do nothing, I promise you nothingwill change.
Mhmm.
You know?
Keep doing it your way.
Like Taylor and I were talking one day, and hewas talking about how guys, you know, tell him
they're on the fence about, you know, gettingcoached by him or, you know, doing mindset

(39:48):
stuff.
And he's like, I don't know.
I think I can do this.
And I was like, hell, you're pissed or missed,man.
How's that worked out so far you?
You know, you're here talking to me.
So apparently that's not working.
What's going to change?
Right.
You know, I had a buddy of mine hit me up abouta month ago.
He's like, I was watching your podcast withTaylor, and I realized I had to talk to you,
but it felt so strange.

(40:09):
So I was watching another podcast, and halfwaythrough, I started crying, man.
I hit the pause button, and I left him amessage.
And he's talking to me.
He's like, Listen, bro.
He's like, Who the fuck else is going tounderstand what I'm talking about but another
cop?
But even if I tell another cop, no one'stouched their feelings.
So how the fuck are they gonna talk to me?
He's like, you don't touch your feelings, man.
Like, you cried and you're not embarrassedabout it.

(40:31):
Right.
He's like Right.
You know, I can talk to you and you can you cantalk to me honestly, man.
You're not gonna be guarded.
I'm like, yeah, brother.
Listen.
A year ago, I couldn't have done that to you.
I couldn't have spoken to you and been thatvulnerable.
Now, you know, I've been gifted that facultythat I can do that because if it can help
someone else, you know, that's why I tell myguests, man.

(40:53):
I'm bringing you on to change someone's life.
They're gonna see you be vulnerable, andthey're gonna realize, just like happened to
me.
You know, in fact, I had Zach Ferguson.
He's a former SEAL.
And during the course of his interview, hecried and I cried.
And I hit the record button when we got down,I'm like, Bro, it was fucking beautiful.
I'm like, Someone's gonna see a Navy SEALcrying and you just changed your life.
Like, they're gonna need it.
Right, right.

(41:13):
And I think it's beautiful, man.
Totally.
I mean, I think that ten years ago, it was andeven to this day to an extent, but it's like, I
think what people tuned in for, you know, aninterview with a Navy SEAL, a SWAT officer,
whatever this is, is to hear about, like, thecool shit.

(41:33):
What was BUD/S like?
What was this?
You know, and that stuff's so cool.
Like it's still worth talking about it becauseit sets up the dichotomy.
But now the other side of that coin is how muchstrength does it take to be vulnerable publicly
and to kind of, you know, in spite of beingmentally tough and fucking able to suffer and

(42:00):
able to be strong in that way, how can you alsobe supple and vulnerable, you know?
And I think that is sort of the message thatpeople, you know, need to see.
Yeah, absolutely.
I had Jimmy Watson on recently, and Jimmy'shard as nails.
You know Jimmy.
And he cried during the course of it.
And again, we got done and like, brother, thatwas beautiful.

(42:22):
Like, someone's gonna see you, and you justchanged at least one person's life, man.
I guarantee it.
Yeah.
So, yeah, there's a place, man.
I mean, I went for training last year with GBRSGroup.
Yeah.
So I drank in March and I went in April.
DJ Shipley and I kind of got in a deepconversation about our individual journeys.
And he was obvious.
Obviously, I was Ayahuasca.
And we were just talking about what we weregoing through prior to.

(42:45):
And he's like, Mike, I just had this angerthing, man.
I would, you know, snap at my kids and my wife,and I didn't want to do.
And afterwards, I'm like, what the fuck are youdoing?
But I couldn't control myself.
And he's like, no, man.
Life's beautiful.
And I'm like, you know, DJ, I don't care whatuniform we wear, man.
We're humans first, but we callous up so much.
It's a self-preservation, man, because we can'ttake on all this pain.
Yeah.

(43:05):
But then we turn around and we don't feel shit,bro.
What the fuck is life if you feel nothing, man?
Life is beautiful.
But if you go through and you're hatinganything and everything and everyone, what's
the point?
Yeah, no shit.
Well, what was like the hardest part for you,your biggest challenge after your Ayahuasca

(43:26):
ceremony?
Was there anything that, you know, it kind offelt like you were struggling with maybe some
of the symptoms that you were experiencingbefore?
Or what was the hardest part since then?
Yeah, good question.
You know, sometimes I'll kinda not be asaggressive with my integration as you should
be, like with the journaling or Mhmm.

(43:47):
You know, I tend to get self-isolate.
So Mhmm.
You know, it's funny.
I started this podcast, but I'll get thisimpostor syndrome.
Like, who the fuck are you to be doing apodcast?
Yeah.
And, you know, I get down on myself.
I'm like, nah, man.
Cut that shit out.
Yeah.
Like, you've been through what you've beenthrough to help others.
You know?
Don't think about what you know, how goodsomeone else is doing, and you're not you

(44:11):
shouldn't be here because they have 4 millionfollowers.
Not about that.
Affect that think about affecting that onelife, and that's it.
So, yeah, sometimes you tend to kind of fallback.
Nothing crazy, but again, like, you know, Ihave this anger thing every now and then.
I'll stop my wife, and I don't mean to do it.
So that's probably my biggest thing.

(44:32):
You know, I just I wanna be the best husband Ican.
I absolutely love my wife.
She's the best.
And, you know, you try to be this perfectperson in some respects, and you're never going
to be.
So it's great that I have the awareness that,you know, when I do things, that I'm doing
them.
You know, if you go through and you're notself-aware and people are like, yo, what the

(44:52):
fuck are you doing, bro?
If you don't see that, that's a big problem.
You know, when you see it, at least it'scorrectable, and, you know, you go on from
there.
Because listen, it's okay to not be okay.
Yeah.
Again, you're never going to achieveperfection, but you gotta try your best.
And if you see yourself falling, hey man, pickit up in that respect.
Dude, a 100%.

(45:12):
Yeah.
I think one of the hardest things that Istruggle with is, you know, it's like detaching
from the outcome because, you know, I know myworth.
I know that I should be fucking doing better inthis regard.
I know I should be achieving more or you get onyourself, what the fuck?

(45:34):
Like, why aren't you working harder, spendingmore time doing this?
You know, I got a random email today and it wasfrom one of these podcasts ranking things.
I have no idea, but it hits me up and it'slike, congratulations.
The Mind Body Mushroom is ranked 115th in thealternative wellness in Italy.

(45:56):
That's awesome, bro.
You're like, what the fuck is that even like aranking though?
Know what I mean?
You're like, like, but but and I have thoughtin the past, I'm like, I don't I'm not doing
anything really to promote this outside of likeposting about it every now and then.
But you know, then you then you kind of likeget in your head and that little fucking voice
comes in and goes, dude, what am I doing?

(46:17):
You know, there's so many podcasts, there's somany, you know, impressive people, fucking SEAL
Team Six, all this shit.
Like, why does anyone wanna hear what I have tosay?
I'm one hundred and fifteenth in an obscurecategory in Italy.
You know?
That's
It's reminding yourself that like, dudes, it'sfuck the outcome.
Who cares about the outcome?

(46:38):
It's just stepping up to the plate and fuckinggoing through the motions and doing it because
because it's it's the act of it's the journey,not the destination kind of.
Exactly.
Know?
And that's something that I struggle with forsure.
Yeah.
And I think a lot of us do and we need to stopat that shit because you don't have to be Shawn
Ryan with 4 million viewers.
You know, like I said, you change one person'slife.

(47:02):
For instance, I a few months ago, about sixmonths ago, I got hit by my Instagram, DM by
this former cop in the Midwest.
And he said, my buddy saw your stuff and turnedme on to you.
And, you know, I love your message.
And, you know, we started going he was goingthrough PTSD, deep depression.
He was on antidepressants.
So told him about available remedies.

(47:24):
You know, I'm not the professional, but I kindaRight.
You know, I'll tell you about what I've beenthrough, and if you need additional, I'll help
you direct you to different places.
And sent him to my buddy, Wiz Buckley.
He's a former F-18 pilot.
He runs a foundation called No Fallen Heroes.
They provide psychiatric, excuse me,psychedelic therapies to first responders,

(47:45):
vets, Gold Star family members, and familymembers of those three categories.
And
I said, apply for a grant with No FallenHeroes.
And you know, Wiz's organization will take youto a facility, and you know, you can experience
the psychedelics.
So sure enough, he went about a month ago toDan Costello, who's a former NHLer.

(48:07):
He's got a place in Oregon.
Experience Onward is the name of his place.
So the Monday after he went, I got this email.
He's like, Mike, you know, you changed my life.
I had the greatest weekend of my life.
He's like, I will never touch thoseantidepressants again.
Wow.
I've experienced so much love.
He's like, my life has changed.
He's like, I want to turn four guys onto this.

(48:27):
And I'm like, that's why I do this, man.
Yeah.
That one text blew me away.
Just changed a man's life.
Right.
Not only his life.
Everyone, you know, that's touched by him.
Family, it's like a spider web and a right.
Windshield crack.
All these other people are affected.

(48:49):
And God forbid that man takes his life.
All those people are affected negatively.
But man, not only he's not taking his life, nowhis life has changed.
He's bringing that level of happiness toeveryone around him.
It's a beautiful thing.
So fulfilling.
Oh, that's amazing.
That actually kind of leads me to my nextquestion, which is, you know, what does it mean
now to you to be a protector, you know, aftershedding the uniform?

(49:15):
To be a protector.
I guess, you know, I've kind of evolved intosomething else now.
I'm still serving, but it's in a differentmanner.
And honestly, to me, this is, listen, man, I'veliterally saved people's lives.
I've done CPR, full people, dead, brought themback to life.
You know, I've made impacts on people's lives.

(49:36):
But I don't know.
This is it just feels even more so here.
Right.
Again, you know, I look at my coworkers thatcommitted suicide and their kids that have to
live with that.
Man, if I could just save one person from notdoing that because they don't realize, man,
these poor guys, they think that burdens, youknow, they think they're releasing a burden.

(49:57):
No, man.
You're putting that burden onto your familywhen you commit suicide.
Right.
These kids growing up, they're wondering ifthey're the cause of what you did.
And that's how you create drug addicts, man.
That's how you create prostitutes.
That's how child trafficking is created,because these kids need love.
And if they're not getting it from their pops,and mom goes into this deep, dark abyss,

(50:19):
they're gonna seek it somewhere else, andthey're gonna find it from somewhere else.
It's gonna be from very unhealthy places.
So the impacts that are made are justincalculable.
Yeah, I mean, it's just like we kind of startedthis podcast talking about is that like, in
some ways the root of your trauma starts, it'sthat cycle of violence, you know what I mean?

(50:39):
Your trauma starts from the generation beforethat and maybe the reason your father was the
way he was with you is because the way hisfather or mother was with him.
And you know what I mean?
And so it's like, it's the best thing you couldpossibly do is try breaking that cycle and just
becoming a beacon of like love, empathy,modeling all the behaviors that in retrospect

(51:06):
were the things that you needed, you know, as achild.
Generational trauma is a killer.
Right.
Now, what's something that you believe now thatyou would have never believed five years ago?
Again, I guess it would probably have to dowith all vulnerability and showing emotion.

(51:29):
I always thought it was weakness.
I was literally brought up, told by my fatherit was weakness.
It is so healthy to be able to expressyourself.
And it just listen, once you get healthy,you're able to have healthy relationships.
You know?
I talk about you see guys or girls that you'refriends with, they're in these relationships

(51:49):
with people that don't deserve them.
And you're like, what the fuck are you doing?
But they don't value themselves, or theself-esteem is so low.
It's because of stuff that they've experiencedthat when they heal and they become healthy
humans again, man, they're gonna look at peopleand they're gonna make them come off to their
level as opposed to going down to otherpeople's.
And I think it's the most valuable thing youcan tell someone is, you know, literally just

(52:11):
getting raw, vulnerable, and showing them that,you know, especially guys, alpha males, feeling
expressing what you're feeling is not weakness.
It's actually a sort of strength.
It's not easy to do.
You know, it's not easy to come on here.
You know, it may seem like it, but for me to,like, bear my soul and talk about all my

(52:32):
misdeeds, man, I talk about everything, and Ifucked up.
You know, I got a habit of painkillers.
Had to go to rehab in 2012.
Never thought I'd be able to go speak publiclyabout that.
It's humiliating.
But now, I'm at peace with that now.
I forgive myself.
But it's just another piece of the puzzle now.
Can help guys and girls.
You have a substance abuse problem?
Hey man, know exactly what you're talkingabout.

(52:54):
Dude.
You know, let's get you some help.
Dude, I feel like recovering addicts areliterally some of the most accepting people,
you know, in the world.
Like they're the least judgmental.
They're like such a beautiful soul in a waybecause, like, they've hit rock bottom and, you

(53:17):
know, if you can pull yourself up and stopcausing like those, that cycle of violence,
it's like nothing really phases you.
There's nothing that, you've been soembarrassed by your own fucking actions that
like how can anything that anybody else doesembarrass you.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's all a matter of fact.

(53:38):
Like, all right.
Yeah.
Let's let's work with that, man.
Yeah.
You know, let's talk about it.
It's nothing that's gonna shock.
You know, no one's coming to me with anything.
Listen, you tell me you dropped the family offour, maybe we have a problem.
But short of that, you come to me with anythingthat you're going through, and I'm gonna be
like, all right, brother.
Right.
Let's explore that, man.
Let's get you help.
Let's do what we have to do.
Absolutely.

(53:59):
Yeah.
Mike, this has been awesome.
Do you have anything to leave that like, anylast thoughts before we go?
And then I I wanna let you plug kinda any anyof your your social media, anything you got
going on as well.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I would say, you know, just things that I'vealready said.
It's okay to not be okay.

(54:19):
You are not alone.
All of us think that we're the only one goingthrough it, man.
There are thousands of men and women goingthrough everything we're going through.
You know, there's a finite amount of emotionsthat we can experience, and we're all
experiencing them.
You know, it's funny.
Kellen and I were talking, and Kellen wasreferencing two SEALs, very well-known SEALs,
and he thought they had their shit together,man.

(54:40):
They could do no wrong.
And then their life kind of fell apart.
He's like, bro, I was so shocked.
And we were talking around him like, brother,none of us know what the fuck is going on
inside another man's head.
And, you know, that brings me to another point.
If you guys are talking to someone and you aska man how he's doing, he's like, I'm all right.
That man is not all right.
He's trying to tell you to delve deeper intowhat's going on.

(55:03):
But don't think you're prying.
Because if he didn't want you to ask, he wouldhave been like, I'm cool, bro.
Everything's good, man.
I'm Gucci.
You know, for a man to kind of let you in andsee that something's not okay with him, dive
deeper.
You know, it's I promise you, if your intuitionis telling you something's going on with them,

(55:25):
something's going on with them.
Yeah.
And you're gonna hate yourself if you don't askand stop me if something happens to that
person.
So, you know, that's one of my biggest thingsbecause everyone knows a person's front event.
It doesn't have to be us.
It could be a civilian.
You know, anyone in your life who's goingthrough it.
You know, don't let them get away with that.
You know, saying that you didn't want to pry.

(55:46):
You're not prying.
They're actually opening the door for you.
Just fucking open it a little more and walkthrough it.
Totally.
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, a lot ofattention goes to kind of military and first
response within this whole plant medicine,holistic wellness, you know, but it absolutely
extends beyond that.

(56:06):
And I think what's so great about, you know, usbeing the flag bearers for this movement is
that it kind of unifies the country.
Like, you know, left, right, white, Black,upper, lower, like where everyone is fucking
going through something.
And I think this is, it's like the Venn diagramoverlaps and it's like who, if these people can

(56:33):
fucking rally behind, you know, thesetreatments, these modalities and open up to,
you know, hey, it's okay, it's all right to notbe all right.
Like that kind of gives us this like implicitpermission to everyone else that it's okay and
it's acceptable.
Dude, fucking the governor Rick Perry of Texas,former governor.

(56:55):
Yeah.
You know, like, guy's as straight as an arrow.
And, you know, he did a three-hour podcast onJoe Rogan about
Yeah, him and Halberty.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, and so it's like, it is really this,you know, bipartisan overlapping fields of fire
of like, we got this, it's okay to fucking talkabout this and move this along because we all

(57:20):
benefit from this.
This is how we're going to fix society in a lotof ways by being vulnerable.
Absolutely.
And people don't realize the brainwashing thatwe received by big pharma that continues to
this day.
Yeah.
You know, they have their hands in everything.
And if you don't think that they have an effecton doctors—in fact, I have someone kind of
close to me that's got Parkinson's.

(57:40):
And Ibogaine and psilocybin have been shown toease the symptoms greatly.
And I kind of turned him on to that, and hewent and spoke to his doctor, and his doctor,
like, nixed it.
Yeah.
I'm like, fuck that.
Don't listen to him, man.
You know, first of all, as a doctor, someonecomes to you, yet how do you just turn that
down point-blank?
Do some research on your own.

(58:01):
You're talking about Parkinson's, man.
The quality of life that people experience whenthey start getting deeper and deeper into that
illness, it's devastating.
And you're telling me there's potentiallysomething that can help them?
Are you just gonna shut it down like that?
Yeah.
Like fuck.
I call him, I drop that doc immediately.
Yeah.
I put him on to several sources, including Ibecame doctor.

(58:22):
I'm like, contact this doctor, bro.
And you know, I'm going to see him in a shortamount of time, but I want to talk to him more.
We've been brainwashed by big pharma.
There are things out there that can help usthat have been used for thousands of years that
have that stigma attached to them.
It should be the opposite way around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No shit, dude.

(58:43):
100%.
They
want us fucked.
Make their money, man.
They want you hooked on a chronic medication.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I interviewed this guy named Kagan Gill and
that's alright.
Great guy.
The story's incredible.
The
story's insane.
Dude, absolutely insane.
But yeah, I mean, it's one of those thingswhere it's like, the profit motive is to

(59:06):
prescribe, you know, and then there's thatthing, you know, there's that book, like deny,
delay, depose, you know, it's like our healthinsurance companies, they sort of, you know,
delay your intervention that will help you sothat they can prescribe you something that then
you will get hooked to and then fuck it, youknow, you may just OD before anyone has to

(59:29):
really do anything about it.
And great.
That's the name of the game.
Yeah.
It's fucked up.
But yeah.
It really is.
We're changing it.
So
Exactly.
This
has been awesome, man.
You wanna tell people where to find you?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
The best way to get to me is the resilientwarrior 5778 on Instagram.

(59:52):
And my podcast is on YouTube, I guess Spotify,Apple, the other non-video ones.
But it is the Resilient Warrior Nation Podcast.
And, you know, I'd love to have you guys watchit.
My guests are ordinary people who've doneextraordinary things with their lives, and I
promise you they will inspire you with theirstories.

(01:00:13):
So if you guys or girls are going through it,need some inspiration, some hope, everyone
talks about their lowest of lows because we'veall fucking been there.
You know, everyone is going through it.
It's just a question of who hides it better.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Alright, man.
Well, this has been great.
I'm gonna send you some coffee and, let'sconnect

(01:00:35):
my mind
for a second, but this is Mind Body Mushroom,Mike Morgan.
Give him a follow, check out his podcast, andthanks for joining.
Thank you, Jordan.