Gym Decorum and The Carnivore Diet

Ever wondered why gym etiquette is as important as the exercises themselves? Discover how maintaining order at the dumbbell rack can transform your workout experience and those around you. Join me, Simon DeVere, as I share an impassioned rant on the importance of re-racking weights and respectful gym behavior. But it's not just about rants; I'm also giving you some insider tips on optimizing your machine workouts for incredible muscle growth by focusing on the most stimulative parts of exercises. Prepare to engage your muscles like never before and elevate your fitness game.

Let's unravel the fascinating history of low-carb diets, with a special spotlight on the carnivore diet and its intriguing historical roots. From the indigenous diets that inspired it to the tales of Arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson, we delve into the evolution of this dietary trend. Examine the parallels with other diet crazes and critically assess the claims surrounding ancestral diets. Expect to hear thrilling stories from Stefansson's expeditions, alongside a healthy dose of skepticism about mimicking ancient eating habits for modern health benefits.

Finally, I challenge the bold claims of well-known carnivore diet advocates, scrutinizing the evidence and potential risks of such extreme dietary practices. Hear why figures like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan have sparked debate and why their arguments might not hold up under scientific scrutiny. Embrace the journey of individual nutritional experimentation, learning how to adapt and personalize your diet based on your body's feedback. This episode is your guide to questioning dietary dogmas and remaining open to discovering what truly fuels your health and fitness journey.

Producer: Thor Benander
Editor: Luke Morey
Intro Theme: Ajax Benander
Intro: Timothy Durant

For more, visit Simon at The Antagonist

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Mind Muscle Podcast.
Here's your host, simon DeVere.
Welcome back to Mind Muscle,the place we study the history,
science and philosophy behindeverything in health and fitness

(00:25):
.
Today I am Simon Devere andthere's nothing new except all
that has been forgotten.
All right, so main topic oftoday, we're actually going to
touch on a little bit of history, science and philosophy, my
favorite kind.
We're going to do a fullbreakdown of the carnivore diet.
I actually wanted to break thisone down because I think there

(00:50):
are a number of sharedphilosophical underpinnings in
this diet to any diet that Imight call or that tries to
reduce the problem of nutritiondown to one single thing,
whether that is one food groupor you should just eat this
thing or remove that thing.
But anyway, I think this, evenif you're not into carnivore.

(01:10):
I think from this breakdownwe're going to be able to
extrapolate out to any one ofthose ideas which I think are
quite relevant and common in thenutrition space.
That's going to take up most ofour time but admittedly, before
we get into that, I'm coming ina little bit hot today because I
just got done working out inthe gym and I got some ranting

(01:34):
that I want to get off my chest.
So, anyway, we're going to talkabout just some gym etiquette.
We're going to talk about aquick tip that you can do to get
more out of your machine workwhen you're in the gym.
And then I'm going to give youguys one other quick tip on if
you're having a hard timefeeling a specific muscle in a
workout and I'm feeling thatright now I was struggling to

(01:56):
feel my chest workouts and Ihave an answer for you guys if
you're having a hard timefeeling your target muscle on
its day.
But anyway, let's get into thegym rants first.
So the first one.
I can't imagine I haven'tmentioned this before, but I
don't know where you guys arelearning this Don't ever do

(02:17):
shrugs or rows or anything atthe dumbbell rack.
Get your dumbbells, walk back toyour station and get to work.
There's two or three guys todaythat were getting there.
One guy was hitting some shrugs.
Another guy was literallyputting a hand down onto the
dumbbell back rack to row One.

(02:37):
I'll let you know one reasonthat you should do this.
If you're in a gym with me, Iam 100% going to confront you
about it.
It is not going to go smoothlyfor you.
I am going to let you know thetechnical terms for that.
So that's called being anentitled little shit.
And yeah, even though you haveyour headphones in, I'll make

(03:01):
sure you can hear me.
But yeah, I really don't knowwhy people are still doing this.
I know I'm just ranting at thispoint, but this is really,
really obvious to me.
But if you're doing an exerciseat the dumbbell rack, nobody
else can grab a set of dumbbells.
Put a set of dumbbells away,you are clogging up the flow of

(03:22):
the entire gym and then,admittedly at least this is the
stuff I think if I see you doingit, I just assume that you're
too weak to carry that weightover to your station, which
makes me think you should moveout of my way.
Go to those literal dumbbells,ones that you can actually
manage taking in and out of theracks.

(03:43):
This is also now just, I'mtalking about cleaning up after
yourself, similar to theshopping cart.
You know my feelings there.
Stop leaving your dumbbells onthe floor.
Same thing If I see yourdumbbells on the floor, my
thought as you walk away isn'twhat a cool dude it's.
Oh, wow, that little boy wastoo tired to re-rack those puny

(04:04):
little weights.
Look at that weak little guystagger out of here.
So, anyway, do your part, makethe gym just a slightly cleaner
and more efficient place.
You are really impressing noone.
Anybody who uses and respectsthat gym is.
If they're not talking to youlike I am, they are thinking
horrible thoughts about you thewhole time.

(04:26):
So, anyway, normally I'm tryingto allay people being
self-conscious in the gym, butif you are the guy doing your
exercises at the dumbbell rack,I do want you to feel insecure
and I want you to kind of secondguess your life choices just a
little bit.
So, anyway, that one drove mecrazy, but there was actually a
positive thing that I wasthinking about.

(04:48):
A lot of times when I have beenworking, I've been working some
machines back in, I've had somejoint issues, so I've actually
been working machines for acouple different movements and
it's like every single time Isit down on a machine like I get
it.
You're going to have to adjustit because people are different.
But the thing that I'm noticingwhen I'm working out at a
commercial gym is it seems thatthe default setting whenever I

(05:10):
sit down on a gym is the personin front of me probably set it
up so that they could move themost weight possible and that
really isn't the best way to setup a machine to get the most
results out of it.
So this really isn't that hard.
This is going to apply topretty much every single
movement.
But you want to set up I'mtrying to just think of like the

(05:33):
least nerdy way to explain this, so I'm fumbling over the words
for a second.
But so the most stimulativeportion of a repetition for
muscle growth is going to bewhen the target muscle is
stretched and under tension.
So let's put a visual to that,like if I was setting up on.
You know people love to worktheir chest.
So if you were setting up in,let's say, a hammer strength

(05:55):
chest press, you want to makesure that when you get to the
bottom end range of motion thatyour pectoral is actually
stretched.
A lot of time that machinemight be stopping before your
pec is actually stretched.
So this is, I think,counterintuitive to a lot of
people on the press.
But if you are working a benchpress, a hammer strength machine

(06:17):
, something like that, with theobjective of building the
pectoral, that stretch positionat the bottom of the repetition
is much more stimulative andmuch more important than the top
portion or the lockout.
I don't want to get sidetrackedand talk the differences between
strength, power and hypertrophy, but we're talking hypertrophy

(06:39):
right now.
So obviously lockouts are goingto be really, really important
in strength and power.
But if you are using a hammerstrength chest press, you're not
working strength and poweranyway You're.
I want you working withcontrolled full range of motion.
But if I'm being honest, thestretched portion of the

(07:11):
repetition is more important andmore stimulative for the goal
of hypertrophy than the lockout.
So I would rather see you notgetting a complete lockout than
not getting a complete stretchon the target muscle.
Let's use a different machine topaint that visual and then I'll
move on to the next part ofthis.

(07:31):
Let's say that you were doing aleg extension for quads.
So again, I think that a lot ofpeople think of the most
important part of that lift, aswhen you are pushing the leg
ahead, your leg is straight andyou can look down and see all
those cool muscles popping inyour leg.
I think it's counterintuitiveto people that actually the most

(07:54):
important part of your legextension is actually the bottom
portion when your knee isactually bent.
When your knee is bent, thefibers of the quadrastep are
stretched and if they are undertension then you're going to get
a lot of growth potential outof that rep.
So now we're back into thesetup, because this is another
issue.
I see, you know, with peopleand their leg extensions, people

(08:15):
focus on getting a really nicelockout, but again, the biggest
portion, or most stimulativeportion of that lift for
hypertrophy is going to be whenthe knee is bent.
So this is where we're back toset up.
Before you ever even do arepetition, you're going to want
to adjust the back and you'regoing to want to adjust the
length of the lever so that whenyou begin your repetition you

(08:40):
are as stretched in yourhamstring.
It's going to have a lot ofknee flexion, but you want to
maximize that on the machine andwhat your joints allow.
So obviously I'm not expectingthat I get done with the machine
and everybody else for the restof the day is going to require
the same setup.
But that is how you are settingup your lift is you want to

(09:00):
make sure that when you are inthe stretched portion the target
muscle is still under load.
One more that we haven't talkedabout, but sometimes I like to
use a chest supported row.
One of the number one thingsI'm constantly having to adjust
when I get onto this is thechest support.
I am trying to make that as faraway from the handles as

(09:23):
possible, and most of the timeI'm actually making it longer
than my own arms.
The reason, again, is when I amworking the row, if that
machine isn't going to stop atthe end when my lats and the
muscles of my back are stretched, I can get more growth out of
each rep.
So I pull that chest pad wayout.

(09:45):
And actually here's another protip that you can use around the
gym.
If you guys have yoga blots andmats going around a lot of
times, I am strategically usingthese on the pads to either buy
myself an extra inch here orthere.
Let's say that I'm back on myhammer strength chest press real
quick.
I might actually be throwingsomething behind my back so that
I can increase the stretch onmy chest where, if I'm coming

(10:07):
into a chest supported row, I'mgoing to be actually sticking
that pad between my chest andthe pad.
Especially if you're a littlebit taller, you may have to
start making some amendmentslike that, and actually same
thing on the other end of thespectrum.
If you're shorter, you may wantto move yourself around in that
seat so that you canaccommodate for that.
So again, I think I gave youenough examples that you should

(10:31):
be able to work this out.
But the principle here is justremember that when the target
muscle is stretched and undertension, that is the most
stimulative portion.
So if you are going to be usingmachines, you're definitely not
training strength and power.
I already know that up front.
So when you are setting up yourmachines, set them up the right

(10:52):
way.
Don't set them up so that youcan move the most weight.
Set them up.
It's going to sound messed upso you can actually do the most
damage.
We want to increase the rangeof motion as much as your joints
possibly allow and we want tomake sure that the target muscle
gets as much work in thatstretch position while under

(11:13):
tension.
That is going to be the bestway to set up machines so that
you can get the most out ofthose lifts.
Last one that I got for you guyson the straight up fitness
focus, I was actually justcomplaining.
Well, first friend was hittingme up to tighten up his program.
I was giving him some notes,but then I also wanted to
confess because I was having anissue in my own workout and I

(11:37):
just wasn't feeling my chest onmy push day.
I have way too many years ofexperience under my belt to be
having this problem.
So anyway, after talking it outwith a friend, just got done
with this workout and again, Ialready knew the answer and I
just want to share it with youguys.
So well, at least here's whathappens, and it's a very, very

(11:57):
easy trap to fall in.
So you're doing your push day,you want to feel your chest and
you get done with the push dayand you're not feeling sore or
it just doesn't feel like yougot much good work in.
Admittedly, for me, my leg workright now is awesome.
That is a workout that I amlike dragging myself out of the

(12:19):
gym.
I feel like I'm working hard inmy push workout and it just
isn't doing much, especiallyversus the volume and how much
time I was putting in the gymReally wasn't feeling it.
So one of the first things thatcan kind of happen and I even
have a lot of years under mybelt is you start adding
exercises because you'rethinking angles and I just need
to stimulate it from a differentangle.

(12:40):
What can wind up happening here, particularly if you're working
out in a public gym, is theworkout time starts running long
, because when you're switchingimplements it's just harder to
get that equipment locked downand the flow of the workout can
get kind of ground down a littlebit.
So the tweak that I kind ofneed to keep in mind and I
executed well today this isfewer exercises, more sets.

(13:03):
So anyway, I just simply addeda set from what I was doing, and
now you know I should havealready known this, but it fixed
the problem.
As I am sitting here recordingthis, yeah, I got what I asked
for and yeah, my chest is niceand sore.

(13:26):
Perhaps overdid it a little bit, but anyway, the reason that
this winds up being such abetter and more potent way to
actually just stimulate themuscle, the biggest problem that
you're probably having ifyou're not feeling the target
muscle in a workout is you'rejust not getting enough volume.
So again, I know better thanthis, but I'm telling you after

(13:51):
years, the instinct I thinkstill is to like add exercises,
add angles.
Today I literally just add Iactually worked fewer exercises.
I had four exercises running.
I knocked that back to three.
I just simply added I think Iadded two sets of the first one
to each of the others, butliterally just adding that extra

(14:12):
volume, I was actually able toknock the workout out in a
shorter time than when I had theextra exercises, because it's
just simply easier to flow.
The other part is you don't haveto warm up for another exercise
, and actually I don't know ifI've discussed this with you
guys yet.
So even in the programs like ifyou see, something like three
by eight what we mean by that isthree working sets I don't walk

(14:36):
into the gym and start my firstworking set.
So anytime I switch exercisesit's never going to take me as
long to warm up for my second ormy third exercise.
But I do need to warm up forevery single exercise and kind
of dial in and get into theright working weight.
As you get stronger thisactually becomes kind of more of

(14:57):
a thing, because when you'restarting out you're not using as
heavy of loads.
It doesn't take as long to warmup.
But you just can't walk into agym straight off the street and
get right into working sets.
So this is again where it canreally speed up.
You can get a lot more goodquality work done in a shorter
time.
By reducing the number of theexercises and increasing the

(15:20):
number of sets, you're going towind up doing fewer warm-up sets
, which, even though warm-upsare useful, they still do amount
to what we call junk volume ina program.
You can definitely do too muchwarming up.
Those are not stimulative sets.
The point of warm-up sets is toget you ready for the working
sets.
It's to figure out what I'mdoing in my warmup is one

(15:43):
dialing in my technique.
Two, figuring out where I'm attoday.
If I've got good rest, if mynutrition is solid and I'm
feeling good in those warmups,obviously we're going to try to
push the progression and we'regoing to try to overload.
If I don't feel rested orthings aren't right, then that's
where I'm going to get in thereand I'm just going to punch the

(16:05):
clock and I'm just going to hitwhat I need to in that session.
I'm not going to overdo it, I'mnot going to shoot, and then
I'm not good at this.
But sometimes it's even a goodidea to actually scale it back a
little bit if your sleep ornutrition is really off.
But anyway, I just want to keepin mind you're only counting
your working sets.

(16:26):
Don't count your warmupstowards your total volume.
The warmups still have value.
I don't want to make you scared, but you shouldn't be taking
four and five sets to warm up.
You should be able to get thatdone in two or three sets.
But again, if you start addinga bunch of exercises to catch a
bunch of different angles, youare going to spend significant

(16:48):
amount of time warming up inthat workout where, if you
reduce the exercises, push thesets, you're going to get more
high quality work done in astimulative range and at a
stimulative load.
So again, fewer exercises, moresets.
That's the thing.

(17:08):
If one of your days just isn'tconnecting, you're not feeling
the target muscle, start withyour best lift on there, add a
couple sets, see how it goes.
I'm pretty sure you're going tobe pretty quickly feeling what
you want to feel.
You probably just weren'thitting it with enough volume.
So anyway, with that, that is mygym rant.

(17:32):
Take that stuff to the gym,improve your workouts and also
make sure everybody's cleaningthe place up.
It's driving me crazy, but yeah.
So I do want to touch on thecarnivore diet today.
So I do want to touch on thecarnivore diet today, if we got
any dedicated carnivores outthere.
I'm going to try to keep thiskind and informative.

(17:53):
I also want to point yourattention to the fact that I
have already done an episode onthe Game Changers, so I don't
have a side in any of this stuffNot picking on you guys.
I've already done a plant-basedepisode, so if that's more the
content you want to hear, maybego that way, but if you're in
the carnivore camp, this isprobably the one you should be
listening to, even though itmight not be entirely what you

(18:16):
want to hear.
But yeah, so my real goal,though, today again, it's not to
talk down to anybody, as Ireally try to highlight all the
time I have experimented with somany things.
I don't have a leg to stand oncriticizing in that regard.
My goal today is just to seewhat science has to say about

(18:37):
this fad diet, which I guessthat's loaded language that I
just dropped in there.
But no, I will say, like thetagline of our show, there's
nothing new except all that hasbeen forgotten, and this is
another one of those, again, thephilosophical underpinnings and
the way it tries to execute.

(18:57):
This idea, I think, is alsoshared with a lot of diets that
don't seem to have anything todo with the carnivore diet.
Off the top of my head, I wouldsay gluten-free for non-celiacs
.
I would say people avoidinglectins, fruit, other things,
anything where people say thisis the one thing wrong with diet
, or anybody saying this is theway humans are evolved to eat or

(19:20):
this is how your ancestors ateAll of them.
But I think we can honestlytell this story pretty well
through breaking down thecarnivore diet.
So yeah, upfront, obviouslythis has been around a long time
.
Indigenous populations such asthe Inuit, the Hadza, the Maasai
, all consumed diets that werepredominantly animal-based.

(19:41):
That's going to be a fact thatis cited a lot in carnivore
literature.
We'll get into this more later.
I'm not sure that they actuallyhave those diets down there.
There's a lot more plants andopportunism going on than a lot
of the influence are going to beletting on in this space.

(20:02):
One of the most interesting guysand it's terrible probably
going to butcher his name,viljalmor Stefansson, but he's
another one he was actually anArctic explorer in the early
1900s.
He actually had a lot of timeliving in the Arctic, living on

(20:24):
an Inuit diet, and he actuallydid a year-long experiment
demonstrating the healthfulnessof an all-meat diet.
So his study and hisexploration is going to come up
a lot in a second we're actuallygoing to take.
It's going to be my historydive of the day.
I want to talk about his storya little bit more In the
mid-20th century, about hisstory a little bit more In the

(20:47):
mid 20th century.
Obviously, that is when yourlow and zero carb approaches
were explored.
So William Banting was actuallythe one who kind of launched
the low carb thing.
A lot of people are going to bemore familiar in the United
States with Dr Atkins All ofthat, or not all of them but the
guy who kind of went fartherthan even both Banting or Atkins

(21:08):
was a guy named, uh, richardMcIrniss.
And so, yeah, he had kind ofexpanded on Banting and went
even farther than Dr Atkins andhe actually had it was called
the Stone Age Diet and he soldlike 1.5 million copies.
He had critics in real time.
This was kind of fun.
But dietitian Margaret Olsonhad negatively reviewed his book

(21:31):
Eat Fat and Grow Slim,describing it as quote another
book on diet based on a minimumof fact but supported by many
chapters of what can only bedescribed as propaganda based on
badly digested series ofhalf-truths and some outright
errors.
So, yeah, not a household namefor me, margaret Olson, but I do
feel like I'm carrying on herwork.

(21:54):
She says that quite well andthat kind of has been my core
project in the fitness andwellness space.
But no, mcinerronus actuallycontinued his crusade later
against coffee, milk, eggs andflour.
So that was kind of aconsistent thing with him trying
to go back and be a caveman waybefore any of our paleo friends

(22:17):
had tried that out in the early21st century.
Full disclosure, I am one ofthose paleo people.
So again, we should all be ableto talk openly and honestly
about this stuff without gettingupset.
I've made every single mistakethat I'm going to break down.
But yeah, so low carb, keto,paleo all of these modern diets,

(22:40):
I think, are variants from thissort of same branch.
And then to me and Carnivorehas kind of evolved out of that
mold, pushing those trends evena little bit farther than they
were doing.
But before I get into theirspecific claims, there was one
name I brought up there and Iflagged it.

(23:00):
I want to talk about ViljalmorStefansson.
It's the last time I'm going tosay his first name, because I'm
pretty sure I'm doing a bad job.
Sure, I'm doing a bad job, but,yeah, briefly mentioned, he was
an Arctic explorer, and hisexperiments and expeditions were
indeed very informative on thistopic.
I'm not sure the way they'rebeing represented in popular

(23:22):
literature is accurate, butthese are objectively very
informative studies andexperiences that we have drawn.
He was an Ivy League guy.
On his wiki they throw him upas a Harvard professor.
He was also at Dartmouth and afew other schools.
At times he explored the Arctic, and so, anyway, first just

(23:43):
historical anecdote, that's justkind of fun.
On one of his expeditions he hasthree ships and they are
heading out, and so they'rebasically exploring up near
Alaska and across the BeringStraits into where Russia is,
and one of the ships actuallybecame trapped in the ice.

(24:04):
It was the ship he was on, andso then he leaves the ship for
one of the others, and this isthe first kind of interesting
thing he tells the crew thathe's going to go hunting and
then bring them back someprovisions.
A lot of the crew suspected,though, that he was actually
leaving the ship, because hesuspected it was in like a
little ice sheet, that the icewould get broken away and that

(24:26):
it would start drifting outuncontrollably into sea.
That is what happened, and heactually never did come back
with any food.
So, you know, stephenson doesjust kind of slide off this
maroon ship.
The ship does get crushed onthe ice, and then the remaining

(24:47):
crew try to make it to a spotcalled Wrangell Island, which is
technically Russia, and threeof them take off alone.
And one of them was by the nameof Alistair McKay, and this is
really interesting to me becausehe was actually the doctor from
Shackleford's Nimrod expedition, which, if you're not familiar,

(25:09):
this was, um, you know, frankly, one of the most famous stories
of human endurance people whowere stranded and marooned in
Antarctica.
Um, mckay was one of those whohad survived the entire winter.
Um, he was in the party thattook on the first ascent of
Mount Everestbrus when they weretrying to get out.

(25:31):
So, again, I just found it.
I don't know, kind of, I don'tknow if it's ironic, what the
right word is, but just imaginesurviving literally one of the
most harrowing tales in humanhistory and then, ironically,
for this subject, he actuallyate penguins and seals during
that time.
For this subject, he actuallyate penguins and seals during

(25:55):
that time.
But, yeah, just to finally dieon the Arctic ice?
I don't know.
It just seemed wild to me.
Just imagine that, after goingthrough all of that, just to go
out that way, obviously this wassomebody who was incredibly
hardy, proven it in just themost harrowing circumstances.
What a way to go.
But anyway, other than himeating meat in those situations

(26:18):
doesn't have much relevance.
I will say, though, that,stephenson, he said he left the
boat to go hunting, but heactually, upon reaching land, he
immediately devoted himself tothe expedition's scientific
objectives.
So it does appear that he, youknow, left the crew on board to
fend for their own devices.

(26:38):
He didn't seem too concernedwhen he got to land.
There were a few survivors.
They were critical of hisindifference.
He eventually did escapeofficial censure.
He was publicly honored for hislater work.
But so later on he actuallytries to get another expedition

(27:00):
actually to go out to thatwrangle island where, um, his
crew had died, but his goal thistime was to claim it.
So first he wanted to claim itfor canada, but the expedition
where people had died was forCanada and they didn't want a
part of another expedition withhim.
So then he pitches this toBritain and he gets a crew, but

(27:22):
then he actually creates anational incident when he goes
there and tries to claim itbecause it was already Russian
land.
He left some people there totry to live.
They all died and then,ironically, his real plan was he
actually wanted to start atourism company in the Arctic.
That never materialized.
So again, I find that funny andI obviously love to say every

(27:45):
episode there's nothing newexcept all that has been
forgotten.
I think the thing that that wasreminding me of is obviously
the Titanic exploration, some ofthe adventure tourism that is
going on today.
I think sometimes these thingsseem novel.
It's just always fun for mewhen you catch a little anecdote
like that in the history.

(28:06):
It's tough to do anything newin the 21st century, my friends.
It's tough to do anything newin the 21st century, my friends.
But yeah, he actually remainedan explorer for many years and
he did spend considerable timeeating the diet of the Inuit and
he had noted its healthbenefits.
He noticed people often wentsix to nine months eating

(28:29):
nothing but meat, went six tonine months eating nothing but
meat and then actually on one ofhis return expeditions he
literally turned down a year'ssupply of what they called
civilized food and he did electto live off the land for four
years.
He had one assistant out therewith him.
There were no ill impacts andafter this this is when he

(28:49):
becomes an advocate for theall-meat diet.
Obviously we can find someexamples before, but I think
it's fair to say thatStephenson's was the first one
that was really based on reallyregimented study and four years
quite a sample size where Ithink he kind of knew what he

(29:10):
was getting into by the time hedid it.
But anyway, he comes back andthen they actually do a
controlled study.
That was funded by the AmericanMeat Association and this to me
was actually one of the mostinteresting parts, and this is
going to manifest a lot later aswe kind of get into the claims
that people are making today.
So it took a few weeks butStephenson's partner in the

(29:34):
American Meat Association studydeveloped a condition called
glycurgia, which I guess ismaybe the guy could have had
diabetes before.
But one of the issues that cameup was that they had been
feeding them lean meats and atthis point Stephenson gives the

(29:54):
other people in the study a notethat he had already noted in
the Arctic that you could getabout two or three weeks on lean
meat before digestivedisturbances would manifest and
that it would lead to sickness.
So he requested that theyactually eat the fatty meats

(30:16):
that were typical of the Inuit,rather than the lean meats that
were typical of our grocerystores, and so then their health
markers were fine.
But again, I think this isgoing to be a claim that
continues to surface is thatit's really tough to mimic

(30:36):
exactly what they're eating inthe Arctic in our grocery store.
So whether or not carnivore isan optimal eating strategy it's
debatable, I guess.
But we have kind of seen howthis plays out in a pretty
controlled manner.
If you're using the type ofmeats that are popular in the

(31:00):
grocery store, those cuts today,you probably are going to get
about two to three weeks beforesome pretty serious
gastrointestinal issues start tomanifest.
And then, you know, maybe we gotsome liver king fans jumping in
saying, oh, he's already solvedthat.
But yeah, that's kind of whatthe pitch of a lot of these
companies is reliant on is maybethey're, you know, some are

(31:22):
just not being, you know, goodand pushing the idea that it's
just eating meat.
If some are, you know, pushingthis idea that you need to get
the livers, the organs, the bonemarrow, stuff, like that.
Instead of eating those things,they're typically pushing
supplements on people toaccommodate for the fact their
diet doesn't have those things.
For some of this I'm going tofocus on some individual

(31:48):
influencers, but before I diveinto their individual things,
know kind of individual thingsand actually we're not going to
do liver King Um I, I actuallythink he's beneath this
discussion.
Sorry, liver King, I'm going togo a little bit higher up.
I want to go do some moreintelligent people making this
claim that I really don't agreewith.
But uh, no, that's the first.
I actually want to just take onthe ancestral angle, because the

(32:08):
other thing is I don't wantthis to be purely a carnivore
takedown.
I want to learn from themistakes of carnivore and apply
them to a lot of other things.
So first focus, we're justtalking ancestral diets, like
broadly and in general.
So a lot of diets are makingthis claim that you know we have

(32:30):
to mimic the diet of ourancestors for optimal health.
I've been talking this down foryears and last week I came
across the Scientific Americanarticle that I love the framing
of, so I want to steal some ofits words, but the title on it
to eat like your ancestors, eateverything.
The scope and focus of thisarticle was essentially but the

(32:51):
title on it To Eat Like yourAncestors, eat Everything.
The scope and focus of thisarticle was essentially breaking
down all of the current andavailable evidence on what we
ate and when and where.
And I got to be honest, it isreally overwhelming that we are
opportunistic omnivores.
Overwhelming that we areopportunistic omnivores.
All diets that are citingancient people are cherry

(33:15):
picking and or ignoringcountless situations that don't
make the case.
They've chosen to argue forPeriod.
Next point replicating the dietof ancient humans is almost
impossible.
We don't know what they ate,towards the detail that people

(33:36):
are claiming that they have.
Here's some of the issues.
So I think a lot of people arekind of stretching what the

(34:06):
fossil record shows because theyare finding bones and things
like that and they're notfinding grains.
There's kind of nothing to that.
I just think they'reover-exaggerating what is left
in the fossil record, our toolsfor processing meat and plants,
and new discoveries happeningall the time.
Um, that that's kind ofactually why, even though there
was a decent timeline in there,I'm not going to talk much about
it because there's a greatchance that there are going to
be new discoveries, updating andchanging that timeline.
That's kind of been the lay ofthe land in this space, so I

(34:28):
wouldn't bet much on anything.
Um, you know, when people say,oh, this was the first time
humans did this and we've had,yeah, that's going to be
probably one of the least stablediscoveries that you're going
to have.
Also, just like with modernhumans, like you can't say what
humans in Los Angeles eat.

(34:51):
There's a wide variety of whatwe eat, and the same was true in
the past is that you couldn'tjust point to a geographic
region and say, oh, here's whatthe people ate.
The truth is it was varied,even within so-called regions,

(35:13):
regions, and really the thingthat seems really, really stable
is people seem to eat whateverfood is available.
The meat fluencers and a lot ofother people are going to
consistently misrepresent orstretch whatever truths, make
their case, minimize and playdown any of the other ones that
don't.
I will throw my meat-eatingfriends a bone here, because

(35:35):
meat really did play asignificant role in our
evolution, but this is one ofthe things that I think they
kind of stretch that it's prettyobvious that we're actually not
pure carnivores.
We didn't develop our brainssolely because of meat, and even
probably the first animaltissues we ate probably weren't
meat, it was probably bonemarrow and scavenged things.

(35:55):
So they're right in the sensethat the available calories and
energy that we were gettinghelped us evolve these more
advanced brains that we have.
But they're wrong saying that itcame from one food source.
The critical advantage humanshad wasn't that they ate meat.
The critical advantage humanshad was in the varieties of food
that they could consume.

(36:16):
So the reason you're here isbecause your ancestors were
omnivores and because theydidn't make distinctions like
that.
If your ancestors did, let'sthrow them both under the bus,
but if your ancestors wereeither vegans or carnivores,
they wouldn't be your ancestorsbecause they died out when some

(36:40):
famine hit their region.
We all descend from the peoplewho were malleable and flexible
and changed with the changingenvironments and changed with
the changing environments.
But yeah, so no, I honestlythink the evidence that we are
omnivores and that we seek outnovel food sources consistently
is really, really solid.

(37:02):
I don't think this is too inquestion.
I'm not concerned.
This is going to be one thatflips.
The really identifiable trendin human diets is again a
broadening and increasing of thenumber of food sources that we
seek out and use and we prettymuch roll with whatever is
available to us.
And again, a lot of theproponents of this are going to

(37:23):
point to like the Hadza inTanzania.
But when I look at the claimsthe meat fluencers make about
how much meat the Hadza eat andwhat the anthropologists who
have lived with them for acouple of decades say, it's a
big discrepancy.
The meat fluencers say they eatall meat.
The anthropologists I'm readingsay that plants make up about

(37:45):
50% of their diet diet.
So this one I guess we can justleave up to.
We don't know right.
There's no way to tell who'smore reliable in this
researchers who've lived withthem for 20 years or influencers
who peddle a message for alivelihood.
So yeah, honestly, I wish Icould weigh in and solve this

(38:06):
one for you there again.
There's just no way to tellright.
Solve this one for you thereagain is just there's just no
way to tell right.
But no, I think we can say thatit's very hard to say with
certainty what any group ofpeople actually eat.
So I know people will feel freeto argue any end of what the
Hadza eat.
I'm still going to say it'sprobably pretty hard to know

(38:27):
exactly what that is.
With that being said, I kind offeel like when anyone tells you
that there's only one way toeat, you can stop listening.
That being said, I havelistened to their arguments and
I think putting them out in thesun is kind of the best medicine
.
So, yeah, not going to end theepisode right there.

(38:50):
I did want to actually dive intothe specific arguments of what
seemed to be some of the mostprominent meat fluencers.
So if I missed your favorite,I'm sorry, no-transcript, really

(39:34):
being a big fan, anyone who'slistened to the show knows I am
a big fan of Friedrich Nietzsche.
Long before Jordan Peterson wasa public intellectual and
celebrity, he had a video,titled 45-minute video,
explaining a five-minuteNietzsche passage.
I got about five minutes inbefore I turned it off because I

(39:55):
honestly felt like he hadn'tread Nietzsche.
I've, unfortunately, paid alittle bit more attention, more
Now.
What I see is that he is aperson who has an agenda and he
likes to use big thinkers likethat to try to make it seem like
they back what he's doing.
So he's similar to a fitnessfigure and to me is that he has
an agenda and he likes to cherrypick literature to try to

(40:18):
support the case that he wantsto make.
But anyway, since he is the PhDand teaches at Harvard, I don't
really think I should come athim on the philosophical ground.
I'm going to let the otherprofessors who've already done
that do all that for me.
But as Dr Peterson has becomean advocate for the carnivore

(40:43):
diet, he did kind of step intomy wheelhouse on that one.
So ad homineming me as not aPhD and not an Ivy League
professor isn't really going towork in this domain.
So I'd rather do that.
No, and in the past, because Ithink all of this is fair, I've
said done the same thing for aDr Gundry at Yale with his book

(41:06):
Plant Paradox.
So I understand they're morecredentialed.
And PhDs book Plant Paradox, soI understand they're more
credentialed and PhDs.
What I am really going to reston is the counter arguments that
I'm about to make and anyway Ithink that, even though I don't
have that pedigree that thesethinkers have, I do think the

(41:27):
arguments can kind of speak forthem, speak for themselves, but
anyway.
So the first question to me iswhy is a psychologist talking
about nutrition at all?
Dr Peterson never has studiednutrition.
Most of his psychology workdeals with.
At least his published work hasa lot to do with substance
abuse, anxiety, things like that.

(41:49):
There isn't much of a focus onnutrition, so how he got into
this is through his daughter.
His daughter is a food bloggerwho also hasn't studied
nutrition, and she is now aproponent of a diet that she
calls the lion diet, l-i-o-n.

(42:09):
It's carnivore variant.
I think there's an obvious punto be made there.
It's the lion L-Y-I-N-G.
But no, anyway, no jokes, let'sactually get into the issues
that I actually have.
First off, no issue with this.
She had suffered fromautoimmune reactions to food,
and so she was experimentingwith elimination diets.

(42:31):
She removed gluten.
She noticed some improvements.
Then she cut some dairy.
She noticed more improvements.
Then she cut all the carbs.
She noticed even more than sheadded some intermittent fasting
and eventually she's down toeating like meat and water and I
don't know, it's pretty much itand her symptoms alleviate.
At this point she startspromoting carnivore as the cure

(42:55):
for a lot of things.
Here's the things she says youcan cure with the carnivore diet
.
Her first thing is improvementin mental health conditions such
as depression and anxiety.
I've dealt with depression, soI am receptive and sensitive to
this, but I do want to point outanything like this is nebulous,

(43:16):
could be, but you're going toneed a lot more controlled data.
I am playing devil's advocate,but what if, in the period that
you started that diet, you got anew job or you were in a
divorce and that resolved Again?
We can't just Even if therereally was an improvement in
depression and anxiety.
You're going to have to have alot more controls in place to

(43:38):
start making any claims likethat Increased energy levels.
Similarly, that one is alsonebulous and undefined.
Devil's advocate.
You could have placebo effects.
You know you're taking thisintervention.
You've heard people say coolthings about it and that can
trigger a positive result.
We'll say could be, but you'regoing to need better proof and

(44:02):
it's probably in your head.
You know.
She talks about it reducingreactions to autoimmune symptoms
.
That one I'm actually going tohave to push'm actually not
pushing because obviously, ifthere was something in a diet
causing it and you weren'teating it, yeah, not eating the
things that cause you to reactis going to reduce autoimmune
systems.
Whether meat is the only foodin the world that doesn't cause

(44:25):
autoimmune systems, I thinkthat's going to be pretty
debatable.
Um, weight loss and better bodycomposition.
I want to give this one thesame treatment that I give it
every time.
Uh, so this is what wetechnically call stupid bullshit
.
Um, say that again.
It's uh, it's stupid bullshitwhen people tell you that you

(44:48):
can get weight loss from eatinglike a specific food.
It is still about caloricdeficit.
Caloric deficit, caloricdeficit.
I really do get sick of sayingit, but it is fun shooting these
down every time.
This is yet another failedattempt to upend physics from
nutrition influencers.

(45:08):
I am keeping scores like zeroand 17 million.
No, if you want to lose weight,you need to get into a caloric
deficit.
If you lost weight on carnivore, it was because you were in a
caloric deficit.
You could totally gain weighton carnivore too.
Really, just depends on howmany calories you're eating.

(45:30):
Um, there's no way out of thisone.
People, I can't.
I don't know.
I'll keep doing this.
Cause it, I don't know.
I say I hate it, but it's kindof fun shooting that down.
Uh, devil's advocate too.
On her elimination dietexperience, but, but in a
different route actually.
Um, to me it actually soundslike she did the elimination
diet, so I kind of don't doubtthat she had some symptoms she

(45:51):
was trying to address throughthis, but it literally sounds
like she did the first part ofremoving the potential allergens
without doing the next part ofreintroducing the foods back in
a controlled manner to identifywhat was actually causing the
symptom.
Causing the symptom.

(46:11):
Does that make sense?
So it's like she just wentthrough the elimination part and
then now, whatever wastriggering this immune reaction
in her diet, she's no longereating and she doesn't know what
it is because she didn't addthe things back in.
All she knows is that when shegets down to meat and water and
salt, that she's not eating thatthing.
There's a whole nother stepthat is yet to be done and again

(46:33):
, I don't know, but I would kindof be willing to bet money that
if she did the back half of theelimination diet and
reintroduce stuff, she mightfind that there are more foods
besides meat and water that shecan tolerate.
And I say this is somebody whoyou know basically did this,
coming off of my ancestral timein paleo, and this was how I

(46:57):
unlearned a whole lot of thingsthat I used to think about.
You know, I had my thing withoats because they were Neolithic
and I was pretty convinced Iwasn't evolved to eat those and,
anyway, doing that process forme was insanely informative.
But I did both parts of it.
I did the elimination part andI did the part where you
reintroduce.

(47:17):
So I do think that I think thatis one mistake that I don't.
I didn't see that she did inher elimination diet process.
That that's really important.
But anyway, all of this is whereDr Peterson's use of carnivore
originates, because we're nowtold that in 2017, he gets
prescribed benzodiazepine by afamily doctor for immune

(47:38):
reactions to family food orsorry, it's a food, it was a
family doctor.
Some skepticism was in there,because I do want to remind
everybody, benzodiazepine isn'ttypically prescribed for
autoimmune reactions to food.
It's an anti-anxiety medication.
Happens to be the same drugthat Michael Jackson was taking

(47:59):
when he died.
I think he was using it to goon tour.
He started this drug in 2017.
He became a celebrity in 2016.
Anyway, this is not going to bethe central thrust, but I'm not
sure if the benzodiazepine was aresponse to autoimmune
reactions from food.
It seems more likely that itwas probably lifestyle changes
from becoming a celebrity,traveling and making media

(48:23):
appearances.
But anyway, I'm not speculatingon the drugs for any other
reason than this is whatactually launches him to go into
a detox facility in Russia.
He gets addicted tobenzodiazepine and then now he
goes to Russia, they induce himinto a coma and run the drugs
out.
He described this as anincredibly harrowing time and

(48:46):
when he returns now we're backto Carnivore he goes on his
daughter's nutrition advice toaddress the food allergies and
everything, and Carnivore hasnow solved all of the problems
that.
So, yeah, anyway, his story nowbecomes that basically, you
know, western doctors and thisWestern food and all this stuff

(49:07):
you know made him a drug addictand put him out there, and
carnivore you know drinkingwater and eating meat has solved
all of the health problems.
Again, I think I've already gotmy opinions out there.
I don't find much of this storythat credible.
Michaela Peterson has been ableto make a name for herself as a

(49:30):
food blogger.
This has gotten her lectures atOxford.
I even took this out of mynotes, but I'm going to say it
anyway.
It's just funny because JordanPeterson is very, very upset
when women do a lot of things inlife, but he was very, very
happy and proud that he and hisdaughter were lecturing at
Oxford at the same time.
It's just a little ironic withhis brand.
Just the fact that, you know,admittedly, his daughter might

(49:51):
not be the most qualifiednutrition expert and she did get
to speak at Oxford, kind of onhis coattails.
Usually I think that type ofthing would bother him, but
doesn't seem to in this case,isn't that funny?
But yeah, I actually thinktheir story in Carnivore though
for them, is seen as proof ofits efficacy.

(50:14):
I think it's kind of anything.
But Again, I think MichaelaPeterson did half of an
elimination diet.
She then started advocating forit and again, I don't really
know what's going on with herfather's health, but I find it
very hard to believe that thediet has cured whatever put him
into that state.
But anyway, too much of this isspeculation.

(50:37):
So you know, I think we have abetter case where I don't have
to quite speculate as much.
All right, all right.

(51:01):
So next one we actually have isalso a physician, or this is a
doctor, uh, phd.
We have physician paul saladino, and he actually was past tense
, a major meat fluencer, but heis no longer carnivore.
So again, like our last one, hehas a personal arc with it.
But I actually think that DrSaladino probably got to the

(51:25):
thrust of it, or at least got tothe plot here.
Not only did Paul Saladinoembrace carnivore, he literally
wrote the book on it, it, hecreated a supplement line, um,
and he now has discontinued thediet for himself.
Um, his old claims he used tocite, you know optimal nutrient
absorption from animal-basedfoods, reduced inflammation and
a decreased disease risk, betterskin health and reduction in

(51:46):
acne, and enhanced cognitivefunction and mental clarity.
We've seen that one twice, buthe went on podcast recently and
he offered up why he is nolonger the carnivore MD Quote.
I started to think maybe, goinglong term, ketosis is not great
for me.
Ketosis, by the way, that'swhen your body is going to be

(52:10):
using fatty acids as its primaryenergy source instead of
glucose.
So yeah, he said that heconducted some research and
concluded that ketosis isprobably not a great thing for
most humans.
And after five years on thecarnivore diet his testosterone
levels had tanked and he alsobelieved that the diet was

(52:33):
causing some sleep issues, jointand muscle pain.
He then also said it's humbling.
You put your thoughts intocement and then you change your
thoughts.
I've learned that includingcarbohydrates in my diet
improved my health, fair point,and I was literally at the exact
same place in my own fitnessjourney at one point.
I am a you know, recoveringcarb phobic uh, body building,

(53:00):
you know body dysmorphic nutmyself.
So I've been there, done that.
I'm not trying to be a hipsterabout it.
I probably low-carbed harderthan almost anybody, you know,
because, because I was into itand, yeah, I actually had the
exact same experience it woundup really compromising my
performance, my ability torecover from workouts, my
ability to lift heavier.

(53:20):
This is something I thinkpeople think that I do, that I
really haven't done for a longtime.
So, yeah, wholeheartedly applaudthis.
Just because the incentives ofchanging your mind in public are
so hard.
Props to you for this, drSaladino.
That's good work.
It really is great seeingpeople change their mind.

(53:40):
And since I did just say nicethings, I do want to say though
maybe you could have done itbefore writing a book and
starting a supplement company.
That's just me, I guess, but no.
So I actually did read aregistered dietitian, sidney
Green, reviewing Saladino'ssituation, and keep in mind he

(54:05):
followed diet for five years,which is a good amount of time.
Most people aren't going to getthat far.
So, anyway, sidney Green saidthat Dr Saladino was probably
deficient in nutrients that areresponsible for producing
important hormones liketestosterone and melatonin.
Second, low glucose levels cancause heart palpitations.
When you eat a food with carbsin it, your body breaks it down

(54:26):
into glucose or blood sugar.
It's your body's main source ofenergy and plays an important
role in maintaining normalphysiological functions for
overall health.
So today I think that green andSaladino would be mostly
aligned in their opinions.
But I'm going to take one moreshot at Dr Saladino.

(54:47):
He still hasn't fully embracedbecoming an omnivore.
He incorporates some honey,some fruit and some raw dairy.
We did that one last week.
Load that up if you need to,but yeah, that's how he gets his
carbs.
Still, no veggies.
So the jaded part of me is likeoh, he's still pushing fad
diets.
People don't like veggies, sothat'll sell.

(55:07):
But anyway, let's keep our eyesthere.
Um, I like that.
He, you know, publicly changedon something difficult.
Um, that's cool.
I'm a little skeptical thathe's going to start getting into
pushing a no veggie fad diet,though we'll see.
I'm jaded um joe rogan uh, he'sactually done a little
experiment of his own withcarnivore.

(55:30):
And yeah, rogan uses 19 dailysupplements and he doesn't
appear to be buying thecarnivore pitch either.
It's not just me.
He was on Huberman and he saidthe problem that I have with
pure carnivore was that I workout very hard.
The main issue with this dietis the low energy.

(55:52):
When I work out very hard withpure carnivore I was struggling.
I didn't like it.
There's a reason for quitting.
He initially reported feelinggreat, with increased energy
level and weight loss.
Eventually experienced severegastrointestinal issues,
including diarrhea.

(56:13):
Didn't have this note in there,but you guys want to guess that
it happened at like week two orthree.
I do think that's one that,looking at Stephenson, probably
could have avoided thatexperience.
But again, actually no faultfor people experimenting.
That's how I learned most ofwhat I say.
So anyway, guys, we're gettingclose, we're coming up, but I've

(56:34):
been all over the place.
I actually just want to put itall in one succinct spot.
Let's put a little timestamp orsomething here.
This is the place to go if youwant to get the meat out of the
episode.
What does science say about thecarnivore diet?
All right, we ran most of itdown, but quickly summarize
First, I think it's a prettytelling anecdote that a lot of
the major people who promoted ithave already moved away from it

(56:57):
.
Obviously, the Petersons have,not Saladino Rogan they have.
I haven't tried a fullcarnivore, tried something very
close, had a very similarexperience myself.
I think all of this stuffaligns with the vast majority of
the research that it justtypically isn't sustainable for

(57:20):
a long time.
The examples that we have ofcarnivores in the meat fluencer
carnivore world is of indigenoustribes that actually ate
significantly more plants thanthe influencers typically say,
and they also typically atedifferent animal products than
the ones that people are goingto be buying in their grocery
store today.

(57:41):
One piece, they do get right.
Meat was really important inthe evolution of our species.
It's really important for ourbrains, but it wasn't
exclusively the kinds of meat weeat today, like we mentioned,
scavenged bone marrow, eggs,whatever was available, and the
same is also true for plantsources.
At the same time, the main arcand trend that you're going to
notice in human diet is againbroadening, selecting more and

(58:02):
more food sources, not isolatingit down to one.
That's our critical advantage.
It's malleability, it'sflexibility, it is lack of
reliance on any single foodsource that has really made us
thrive.
Most of the major benefitssuggested by the dieters,
including weight loss, includeblood sugar markers, skin,

(58:23):
digestive issues literally noresearch.
Obviously only digestive issues.
The opposite seems to be true.
The weight loss one isparticularly annoying and, yeah,
literally the opposite is truefor most of the claims.
Those following a carnivorediet are more at risk for
vitamin and mineral deficienciesbecause of lack of variety.
If you source it at the grocerystore, you're probably going to

(58:47):
get gut issues in about two orthree weeks.
Lean tissues are not what hasbeen used on successful attempts
on this diet.
Again, no fiber in the diet too.
That's going to add to the riskof the gastrointestinal issues
if you just completely run fiberout of your diet.
Not good for the gut microbiome, not good for what's going on.

(59:12):
So anyway, though I know I wouldfeel bad doing this when I'm
like talking down because one, Idon't want to alienate anybody
that's been associated with anyof these camps, I really do want
to just keep reminding you guys.
I feel like we're all in thetrenches here together trying to
do this.
Though I didn't buy into thecarnivore claims before
researching this, I really didlearn a lot do this.

(59:34):
Though I didn't buy into thecarnivore claims before
researching this, I really didlearn a lot doing this.
So on the one hand, a lot ofthe figures that we talked about
today.
They represent everything Idon't like in modern society and
I'm not exaggerating.
I feel like they're kind ofpeddling agendas and products
under the guise of scholarship,self-help or self-optimization.
That being said, I also can'thelp it when I see people who

(59:58):
are genuinely suffering fromconditions and seeking solutions
to them.
That still resonates, and evenin the case of the Petersons, I
believe that is their initialmotivating factor.
God knows I don't agree withhow they're applying the rest of
it, but at least to that regardthat I can actually relate to

(01:00:19):
in spite of all my ranting.
That's actually why I liketraining.
I really relate to that on abasic human level and I like to
be involved in that process ofhelping people actually find the
solution.
So that is essentially where myfrustration comes from, with
people getting lost along theway.
These people don't entirelyescape responsibility.

(01:00:41):
In my book, though, I do feelsome empathy for the problems
that they're trying to addresswith their diet, and that's
because they have beenmisleading other people, not
giving them the full picture.
I have read the accounts andreviews and I should acknowledge
that some people have followedthe advice and it's alleviated
some symptoms.
Again, like I would say, justlike I did on Michaela Peterson,

(01:01:03):
I don't doubt that, I justdon't think that your nutrition
journey is finished.
I think you've done half of anelimination diet and I think you
have a lot more to learn, andagain, that's not talking down,
I'm still learning a lot aboutmy own individual nutrition
needs.
I think you're about halfwaythrough the process there, but

(01:01:24):
again, every person we mentionedtoday was attempting to use
nutrition to address healthissues and problems in their
life, and I also want to saythat there was just flat out
nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong withexperimenting.
If you do it, though, make sureyou're clean, make sure you're
isolating variables, otherwiseit can be really hard to

(01:01:45):
understand what actually workedand why.
When I survey the availableliterature on this topic, I
really don't think it pointstowards exclusively eating an
animal-based diet or towardsselecting for any single food
type.
We constantly seek out novelfood sources.

(01:02:05):
Our ability to live and thriveas a species has come from the
variety of foods, not a fragilereliance on anyone.
That's why we thrived.
I remain really confidentsaying that all attempts to
recreate the diet of theancients are flawed.
There are going to be newdiscoveries.

(01:02:26):
To constantly overturn thetimeline, constantly overturn
what you think you know.
To constantly overturn thetimeline, constantly overturn
what you think you know.
I just don't think this is abedrock that you want to rest
your nutritional attempts upon.
Any attempt to do that is goingto be flawed.
This is why all, not justcarnivore, but this is why all
of the diets profess the onething wrong with diet.

(01:02:49):
This is where they all go wrong.
They share the samephilosophical underpinning and I
don't ever think that they'regoing to address our health
problems.
Anyway, nutrition, as you guysknow, to me this is an
individual process.
This is why I don't want todiscourage the experimenting and
trying out of new things.
I think that you can learn alot in processes like this.

(01:03:09):
But don't be dogmatic.
Also, be reactive to the datathat you're seeing and how your
body is responding.
If you even try to experimentwith something like this, log
food, wear a tracker, do thoseannoying, tedious things that I
talk about, otherwise you aren'tgoing to really have any idea
how your body actually respondedand then you're going to kind

(01:03:32):
of be stuck in those nebulousmarkers in the land of placebo
effects.
But anyway, guys, I really dohope again that this isn't just
I don't want to sit in as just acarnivore takedown.
I really hope that this is theway that we can really
understand any one of theseattempts to frame.
You know, the one thing wrongwith diet we did carnivore today
.
I'm sure we'll touch on some ofthese other ones at a later

(01:03:55):
date, but anyway, if you guysthink this is going to be
helpful to anybody you know,make sure to pass it on and
share.
I always appreciate your timeand attention.
Remember, mind and muscle areinseparably intertwined.
There are no gains withoutbrains.
Keep lifting and learning.

(01:04:15):
I'll do the same.