March 7, 2024 • 57 mins
Throughout my journey, including stumbles and triumphs, it's become clear that the pursuit of physical fitness transcends the mere chase for a chiseled physique—it is deeply rooted in our quest for meaning. On the latest episode of Mind Muscle, I invite you to engage with me, Simon Devere, as we unravel the intricate tapestry that weaves together our fitness endeavors with the philosophical insights of Viktor Frankl and Friedrich Nietzsche. Through anecdotes and reflective musings, we'll explore the diverse motivations behind why we work out, and how uncovering a meaningful 'why' can profoundly influence our 'how.'
The conversation doesn't halt at philosophical parallels; it extends into the nitty-gritty of everyday life and the sometimes overlooked importance of exercise for holistic well-being. Think of the familiar struggle to juggle personal care with the demands of parenting—like my friend Bartleby's tale, which underscores the significance of maintaining one's health amidst life's relentless pace. It's here that I share my own dance with depression and how fitness became my partner in navigating toward brighter days. Moreover, we'll traverse the social landscape of fitness, pondering how our sweat-soaked endeavors can foster connections, build communities, and translate discipline into success beyond the gym walls.
Finally, we're called to recognize the impact of our health choices not only on ourselves but on the world around us, particularly the young eyes that look to us for guidance. In this episode, I reflect on the deep satisfaction that accompanies the positive influence we can exert on others' health journeys. Coupled with the encouragement to actively engage in our local communities for tangible change, we conclude with an acknowledgment of the symbiotic growth of both intellect and physique. Join me in a candid discussion that promises to challenge and inspire, as we collectively seek a richer, more meaningful approach to fitness.
Producer: Thor Benander
Editor: Luke Morey
Intro Theme: Ajax Benander
Intro: Timothy Durant
For more, visit Simon at The Antagonist
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Mind Muscle Podcast.
Here's your host, simon Devere,and welcome back to Mind Muscle
, the place we study the history, science and philosophy behind
(00:25):
everything in health and fitness.
Today I am Simon Devere andthere is nothing new except all
that has been forgotten.
So today I want to take a deepdive into one of my favorite
books of all time.
I was going to make a joke thatwasn't written by Nietzsche,
(00:48):
because you probably suspect Iwas going there.
But yeah, unfortunately it was.
Also the writer was heavilyinspired by Nietzsche, but
anyway, man's Search for Meaning, victor Frankl.
That's where I want to go today, and I know that's again
probably an adjunct positionfitness and Frankl, but I don't
(01:10):
think it is.
So, yeah, the other day I was atthe morning mile.
This is something my daughter'sschool does before school.
The kids go and run before theyhead in.
This is when the parents kindof sit and, you know, kovetch
(01:30):
rant, just you know, get it offour chest.
But anyway, talking with afriend of mine, he does
construction, so he was comingover and talking to me about his
back pain, his hip pain, and heis, you know, a former athlete,
has been very athleticthroughout his life, has a job
where he moves a lot.
So he, you know, even though heknows he's talking to a trainer
(01:52):
he's not trying to make me feelbad, but he's just explaining
how fitness, never reallyconnected for him, kind of feels
like a waste of time.
He, admittedly, is not veryconcerned with physique or those
type of goals, so a lot of themessaging that the fitness space
targets doesn't really landwith my friend at all.
(02:17):
And you know, admittedly,growing up in Montana working on
construction, I've known thisguy many, many, many times over.
But yeah, so anyway, just as wewere talking, he was explaining
, you know, the pains and stuffthat he has.
So again, I listened and I knowthis guy, I know a lot of these
(02:41):
guys, and instead of giving himlike a fat loss diet or a
hypertrophy program that I knowhe won't care about at all
because it's not relevant to hislife or his values or goals, we
did actually just talk about amobility circuit that I like
doing while coffee is brewing.
That makes it easier for me toget through my workday, which
(03:05):
the only similarity he and Ihave in our workdays is that
they're both physical.
We're doing really differentstuff but I, you know, carry a
lot of equipment set up, teardown all day.
So I do know what it's like tobe on your feet and using your
body for labor.
So I just showed him a mobilitycircuit that I like to make it
easier to go to work, quitefrankly.
(03:25):
But all of that that actuallyjogs loose this connection to me
between fitness and Frankel.
And really it comes back to why.
The most indelible quote fromMansearch for Meaning, I believe
, is those who have a why canbear almost any how.
(03:49):
And again I just want to pointout because when people see
Victor Frankel on your Kindleversus Nietzsche, they react
very differently.
That really famous Frankelquote is a Nietzsche quote.
Appeared in Twilight of theIdols, how to Philosophize with
a Hammer.
But yeah, when Nietzsche saidit he said if we have our own
(04:09):
why in life, we shall get alongwith almost any how.
Man does not strive forpleasure.
Only the Englishman does.
Just included that last bitbecause that's actually like
Nietzsche's kind of attempts athumor and wit which I think a
lot of his readers don't pick upon, reading him a little bit
too literally, particularly.
(04:29):
If you've ever heard thecritique of people saying he's a
megalomaniac, they probablyread Eke Homo and the jokes went
over their head.
But anyway, what I was going tosay, I'm going to stop
pretending to be an Englishprofessor, except I'm not.
I'm going to do it a little bitmore, but cheap.
Appeal to authority.
My mom is an English professorso, even though I didn't run any
(04:52):
of this by her, none of this isapproved by an actual academic.
There is an appeal to authority.
I know an English professor, soI don't know.
Trust my breakdown, but no,anyway, talking with my buddy, I
again was just thinking aboutthe.
There's a lot of different whysas to why one might work out,
(05:15):
and it's not lost on me that thefitness space really amplifies
a very narrow set of reasons totrain and I do believe that
these broadly leave a lot ofpeople out, not just my buddy
who is a construction worker.
I think there's a lot ofdifferent types, if you will,
(05:36):
who are not really going to findtheir whys answered in the vast
majority of what comes out fromthe fitness industry.
So I do want to actually take alittle time.
We'll talk a little bit aboutFrankel, we'll talk about a
couple other books I like, butthe main goal and objective
today I want to talk aboutdifferent ways of, I guess,
(05:58):
finding meaning in fitness.
That's a little too big.
Let's walk that back.
We should maybe say let's juststick with the whys.
I want to explore somedifferent whys that I believe
are going to be salient for manymore people than people who are
just out there trying toimprove their physique or get a
(06:20):
revenge body or go to a divorceor spring break, and again, I
don't mind that.
But I know from years of doingthis that doesn't really
encompass all of the reasons whypeople come into a gym.
So I just want to take sometime today to amplify and
identify some of these otherwhys that I've run into with
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clients, friends, family overthe years.
And then, yeah, if we will, inman's social meaning, frankel
posits that the core drive forhumans is not actually the
pursuit of pleasure, as Freudhas suggested.
He also didn't believe that itwas the pursuit of power, as
(07:04):
Adler had argued People whothink this is important detail
but he'd actually lived in aconcentration camp and living
through that experience made himbelieve that the search for
meaning was actually thefundamental drive.
And so again back to he who hasa why can suffer almost any how
(07:29):
.
If you have meaning that youcan attach to your suffering.
You can pretty much putyourself through anything, and
this isn't just some dude with apodcast saying that.
I'm actually hearkening back toFrankel, who actually lived
through trying times, not yourpodcasting friend in Los Angeles
who doesn't actually think he'slived through trying times.
(07:52):
So, yeah, we're going toreference Frankel on how to find
meaning in suffering and,admittedly, although we're going
to call working out suffering,let's be honest up front.
Our level of suffering is in noway shape or form resembling
what Frankel is talking about.
Just think we can learn from it.
So anyway, I almost want toattempt to make a philosophical
(08:17):
foundation for fitness of sorts,but before we do that, I do
have to pretend to be an Englishprofessor just a little bit
more.
So in speaking with my friend,there was one other work that
just kind of immediately joggedinto my mind, because he was
telling me and like a lot ofpeople do, it's not in bad faith
(08:40):
or anything, but they'll tellme all of the reasons why they
don't like working out, andanyway it just reminds me of a
short story by Herman Melville.
Anybody know Bartleby theScrivener.
So anyway, I can run down thisone quick and we're not going to
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do any critical analysis, justplot summary.
So there is this unassumingScrivener named Bartleby.
He works for a lawyer on WallStreet.
Initially Bartleby is adiligent worker, but gradually
he begins to decline work tasksagain and again with his famous
line I would prefer not to.
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It is a really funny and shortread, but there's actually no
malice when Bartleby says hewould prefer not to.
He just kind of says it anddoesn't do whatever he was asked
to do.
And then, yeah, eventually he'skind of just like staring at a
wall or looking out the windowand not doing anything that his
(09:45):
boss asks him to do.
So I am going to compare peoplewho don't want to work out to
Bartleby.
But I want to just say up frontI actually love Bartleby.
So don't take that like aslammer and knock if you
identify with any of theBartlebys that we're going to
(10:05):
talk about today.
No, I love Bartleby.
He is a philosophical hero ofmine, and the reason I want to
go that direction, frame it thisway, is that what Bartleby
really teaches is actually a weget to be philosophy nerds up
front.
So we're actually kind ofdealing with a Hegelian concept
(10:28):
that is going to be calleddeterminant negation.
So, in plain English, negationis actually part of what
determines what an object is.
You have to consider what it isnot and that gives it sort of
shape.
So all that's.
I actually think it's veryimportant that we consider what
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Bartleby has to say aboutworking out, if you will.
I don't agree, obviously.
I've chosen to be a trainer andwork out, so we don't agree in
action.
But I do believe that there aretons of valuable insights that
we can glean from determinantnegation or, in this instance,
(11:09):
just considering what thisvarious cast of Bartleby's that
I've met over the years wouldsay to my workout habit.
And yeah, like I said, I dowant to consider their opinion,
knowing up front I'm not goingto agree with it.
But again, I think every singleone of these little characters
that I just made up, quitefrankly, I think they all have a
(11:32):
valid point and I do want toaddress them when we get down to
establishing different andbetter wise for a lot of people.
But, that being said, we gotBartleby the Scrivener from
Melville.
In my years of training, I'vealso met a little cast of
Bartleby's, if you will, and sothe first one, not too
(11:55):
dissimilar from the Scrivener,but I know Bartleby the busybody
, and so the busybody issomebody who is really really
attached to work, has lots andlots of work related commitments
.
They believe that availablefree time should be spent
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working or getting ahead, andexercise is perceived as a low
priority because it doesn't haveanything to do with their
career advancement or meetingany of their goals.
So again, I do think that foryou, bartleby the busybody is
out there.
If you're listening today, Ithink a lot of the issues you
(12:38):
raise are incredibly valid.
So, again, I actually thinkthat I'm not going to try to
convince you that this is goingto add time to your day, which
it won't.
It's actually going to taketime.
We're going to make otherarguments for our busybodies
that perhaps there's otherbenefits to working out besides
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the way they look, and thatperhaps putting even in just a
little bit of time into exercisemight actually help with our
productivity.
Bartleby the laborer that's myconstruction guys.
I grew up around this one, so Iknow this one really well.
These Bartleby's generally feelthat one they're tired at the
(13:21):
end of a work day because theyactually use their body.
They don't believe that theyneed to do any exercise because
they get plenty of exercise andthen actually caught myself with
some lazy language right there.
Can I run that sentence back?
They believe they don't needtraining because they get plenty
of exercise, and I thinkthey're correct in that they get
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plenty of exercise.
But I actually delineatebetween training and exercise,
and this is a cohort that Iactually think can really really
benefit from training, butmaybe not the type that they're
seeing on Instagram or out inthe magazines wherever they get
information about fitness.
This group is going to be a lotmore concerned about over
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exhaustion, over training.
They actually need their bodiesin work, so going all out in
the gym is a pretty stupid idea.
Again, what I'm going to moreargue to this crowd is that,
yeah, we probably don't need toexercise, but I bet there is
some training we could do toimprove the way your body feels
when you're at work.
(14:25):
Next one I got down here for youguys Bartleby the scholar.
Yeah, so, in addition tospending a lot of time on
construction sites, my parentswere divorced, so I spent the
other half of the year oncollege campuses.
I met Bartleby the scholaralmost as often as I met
Bartleby the laborer.
The scholar generallyassociates exercise and gym
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culture broadly with vanity,superficiality and probably
stupidity.
They prefer activities that aregoing to be more intellectually
stimulating or creative.
And though these are veryintelligent people, I generally
disagree with how they haveframed all of the benefits of
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exercise, that there are onlysuperficial benefits.
So to this person we'reprobably going to highlight that
one.
There are a lot of differentexercise forms.
Maybe they're thinking aboutbodybuilding, maybe they're
thinking about a very narrow orlimited set.
Maybe we're going to talk aboutsome different exercise forms
that go beyond the physique andthat actually align with their
(15:38):
values and interests.
So again, for me there'sactually a wide array of things,
but there's a lot of exercisethat are going to encourage flow
, states, creativity and,frankly, just even give you a
chance to have some great ideas,which might just be as simple
as walking.
But again, I think it's alittle bit short-sighted for my
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Bartleby the scholars to prefernot to exercise dogmatically.
I actually think they might beleaving some mental gains on the
table if that's their choice,one that I'm getting to know
better and better.
Bartleby the parent, of coursestruggles to find time between
managing childcare, work,household duties.
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Everything's going on.
I have so much empathy for thisgroup right here.
No judgment.
I'm trying to figure my shitout myself but you feel guilty
when you spend time on yourselfrather than with your kids or
family needs.
It feels like every second ofyour day needs to be going
towards the larger goal.
(16:41):
You might confess, but yeah,you probably stop watching all
the shows you like.
You don't even go to therestaurants you used to like.
Your entire life has shiftedand it almost feels like
indulgent or like you're fuckingup if you do anything for
yourself.
So, anyway, don't worry, if youhave a daily workout, you're not
(17:03):
a narcissist.
You're not neglecting yourresponsibilities as a caregiver.
If you're on a plane, theyusually tell you when you're
taken off like hey, put yourmask on before helping other
people.
So for you parents, that's howwe're coming at this, is we.
I understand there's a lot ofthings that are way more
(17:24):
important than getting yourworkout in, but I want to remind
you to put your mask on first.
You can't help anybody if yourun out of oxygen, my friend, so
don't forget to look out foryourself.
That's Bartleby that I knowwell, is, of course, bartleby
the injured.
And again for this cohort,obviously physical limitations
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or symptoms are going to makeexercise seem daunting,
unfeasible, unrealistic,whatever Again, really truthful
underpinning to why they feelthat way.
They're injured or they havechronic pain, whatever it may be
.
I understand how you can getthere.
On the flip side, though, is Iactually think that fear of
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exacerbating one's condition canoften lead to people ironically
exacerbating their conditionthrough becoming sedentary.
In this group, of course, we'renot going to be advocating
dangerous or stupid workouts,but I just really have a deep,
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fundamental belief that there ismovement that will be
appropriate for absolutelyeverybody, and in my work, I've
obviously worked with youngathletes on up to people in
their 80s doing chair workouts.
So, again, that is where mythoughts come from, with the
idea that there is some movementthat will be appropriate for
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everybody.
My last word I'll just have onmy injured folks is that, again,
I understand why you want toprotect your body and not get
hurt anymore.
The thing that I am just goingto try to argue is that if we
don't use our body, then wealready know that it's going to
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be a slow decline.
From where we are presently at,there actually is a possibility
of maintaining what we have orpossibly even improving
something, no matter how bad thesituation seems.
Actually, you know quick storymy grandmother recently fell and
broke her hip.
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So she went into the hospitalnot in a great situation.
She had to do roughly likethree hours of PT every day.
I was able to keep up with herthrough this process.
We've talked over the yearsabout exactly what I was just
describing chair workouts,various things that she could do
because there were a lot ofmovement restrictions.
(19:51):
So she emphasized to me thatwhen she did the physical
therapy to come back home it wasroughly three hours a day and
she was like, oh, it was all thestuff you were telling me to do
for years.
So again, I just want to tellpeople that you can literally be
in your 80s with a broken hipand there are still things you
(20:14):
can do.
And it was incredibly importantI could tell to my grandmother
to get back home, back to whyshe knew good and well why she
was doing that PT and it wasn'tbecause she loved moving, it
wasn't because she wanted tolook a specific way, she wanted
to get back home and get thehell out of the hospital.
So it's really just moreevidence that if you have a why,
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you really can suffer almostanyhow.
But again, the the why's which Iwant to get into now.
You know I was going to tiethese directly to.
You know different, differenttypes my Bartleby's, the busy
body of the laborer but honestlyI think any one of these is
going to be fair game for anyone of these types, so I don't
(21:00):
think it was actually useful togroup them.
So we just got you know, I gotmy cast of people that I know
with exercise would prefer notmy Bartleby's, and so I may even
know a few more.
But next I actually want todive into some reasons why that
that, I think, might be a littlebit more salient to people who
(21:21):
have ever said I prefer not toto their exercise or workout.
So I've touched on this a lotin the past.
But one of the number one, mostimportant why's and this might
be my biggest why, to be totallyhonest but mental health and
stress reduction.
I'll go ahead and tell the storyone more time.
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But when I really started toget very regimented and dogmatic
, dare I say, about my ownworkout, it was when I was in
college.
At the time I was also beingtreated for depression with
SSRIs, trasadone and some otherpharmaceutical options.
So the truth is I don't want totell this story like this is a
(22:04):
model for other people to follow.
What I did was really haphazardand lucky.
So learn from the story, don'tcopy it.
Eventually I did take myself offof anti-depressants, or I just
I just stopped taking them.
I actually noticed that after Itook them my mood was a little
bit off, I was a little moreirritable and you know we're
(22:27):
friends here.
Yeah, like within that, like 10, 15 minute period after I would
take my anti-depressants,that's when I was just a little
prickly Shall we say.
Anybody who's played sportswith me you know what I'm
talking about.
But it actually amplified that.
I don't need a lot of help withthat, and it was just one of
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those things that I reallyaccidentally discovered.
I'm living in Montana, it'swinter.
I believe that I'm alsosuffering from seasonal affect
disorder.
That could just be because Iwas a psychology student at the
time and when they give you yourdiagnostic manual, you just
start diagnosing yourself witheverything.
But anyway, at the time I'mgetting treated for depression.
I'm convinced I have someseasonal affect going on.
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In addition to everything elseI'm reading and just one coping
mechanism that I just stumbledinto, frankly, because it was
cold and dark out all the timewas to go to the gym.
It was warm, there was lightsand I basically was in there
with every you know non-schoolor work hour I did just kind of
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accidentally discovered thatexercising every day did more to
manage my mood than themedicine that I was taking.
There is a lot of scientificevidence now backing up what I
experienced.
So again, we do need to caution.
(23:54):
Though what I did right therenot responsible, I didn't talk
to my doctors, I didn't talkwith anybody about it.
So it would be reallyirresponsible for some random
podcasting dude to tell you togo off your meds.
I am not saying that.
What I am saying is maybeconsider adding exercise.
If you already are on meds orif you haven't gone on them yet
(24:17):
You're thinking about thatconversation with a professional
why not try and exerciseregimen first and just see what
happens?
Don't never go and talk toanybody, but just see if adding
a workout of some kind doesimprove your mental health
symptoms.
In my experience it workedgreat.
And then again I was actuallyjust scanning literature.
(24:40):
I didn't want to just read backthe studies to you guys, but
obviously there are studies nowshowing promise with depression,
anxiety, honestly, just anumber of different mental
health issues are showingpositive outcomes with exercise.
Again, don't go off your medsand say that Simon told you to.
(25:01):
I did not exercise and go talkto doctor about your meds.
That's what Simon actually said.
So why number two?
I think this is maybe one ofthe biggest ones that comes up
with my actual real life clientsLongevity, aging gracefully,
disease prevention, which willput an air, quotes, because I
(25:21):
think that's a little bitcharlatany to promise, but
obviously exercising and a setus up a lot better for warding
off a lot of the issues thatcome with father time.
We did a whole episode on onwhat I believe the best
practices for aging, forlongevity, are, but this one
(25:43):
actually has a lot more salienceto me now.
Even though I don't look likethe anti aging cohort quite yet
as a father, it just really isimportant to me now that I am
around at the big days in mydaughter's life.
So I already am thinking 20, 30years down the road and I'm
thinking what I want to do onthose days.
(26:07):
So, like if my daughter getsmarried, I really feel like I
should be able to dance at thatceremony.
I don't want to be a guysitting in a chair off on the
corner.
So I'm going to do the thingsthat I have to do to set myself
up for that.
If my daughter ever has kids,I'd really like to teach them my
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love of hiking.
So I am already kind of workingback from like, well, okay, when
I'm 80, I'm going to need to beable to climb up K2.
But that's what I do as I workback from the things that I want
to do at specific ages, and I'mnot entirely serious on the K2
(26:50):
thing.
But I definitely wouldn't turnit down.
That'd be pretty cool at 80.
But no, so a lot of times Ireally am thinking of that more
and more and more is literallyreverse engineering.
Where do I need to be at 38 sothat I could be where I want to
be at 60, 70, 80, etc.
(27:10):
And I'm not going to lie, Ireally do think that far out I'm
not going to be engaging inbehaviors that aren't going to
be setting me up for what I saymy goals are.
There's nothing that's thatimportant to me.
Quite frankly.
This one was always big for meand I think this can be a much
better draw for people thanphysical goals, stuff like that.
(27:33):
A great why, for fitness reallycan be building and maintaining
social connections.
I think one of the biggestproblems affecting pretty much
everybody right now in theinformation age is alienation
and loneliness.
Everybody is hell, whatever,all right, and if you've been
out to dinner with me, maybe I'mtalking to you.
You go out with friends andliterally watch what happens
(27:57):
over.
Like you know, we watchfootball and then I'm the only
guy not looking at their phoneand I actually don't get, on
some level, why people go out togo sit on their phones together
.
So anyway, I just know thatthat lacking real world
connection is negativelyimpacting everybody, even people
(28:18):
who don't realize it.
You need to go outside andtouch grass and talk to real
people every now and again.
Yeah, I'm going to leave itthere because I could go off on
that point, but one of the greatthings about my job I used to
teach group fitness classes.
So, to be totally honest, Iestablished so many lasting
(28:41):
relationships with the peoplewho came to my classes that is
still.
There's a number of people whostill call me who I run into,
and just that that sharedexperience that we had really
builds lasting relationships.
It's not just that the classesI taught, but I've played in
(29:03):
recreational sports leagues.
A lot of the guys that were onthose teams with me are still
like my best friends to this day.
There's there's an old adage,you know for your romantic
relationships that you knowthose who train together stay
together.
It's fun saying.
I'm not going to lie, though.
(29:23):
Guys, me and my wife don'tactually do that.
We do not do our daily workoutstogether.
I'm a trainer, she's not.
It just puts in a bad dynamicof me just telling her what to
do.
That being said, we totally goon dog walks, dog walks, hikes,
go to the beach, so there is alot of exercise that we do
together, but I don't want toput out that image like like me
(29:46):
and my wife are in the gymtogether.
Actually, that would not be anideal scenario for either one of
us to train.
And again, I just think there'sample opportunities to use your
workout or your fitnessendeavors to actually, you know,
your goal isn't to get a betterbody or whatever.
It's just to hang out withpeople that you actually care
(30:08):
about, make new connections,meet people.
You know just A few things I'vedone around LA.
I do pick up basketball.
I go to a boxing gym.
I'm at the Santa Monica Stairs.
I hit trails.
There was a morning swim meetthat I used to go to when I was
training for a triathlon.
There's running groups.
Actually, I just heard aboutone in Venice.
Right now, I think like athousand people are running in
(30:29):
the streets.
So, anyway, if you're in LA andyou want a running group, go do
that.
La Lakers meet over at adifferent site.
There's cycling clubs.
There are just countlessopportunities to get out and
meet people.
So if you're, you know, I gotfriends that are going through
divorces wondering how to meetpeople.
I didn't do any online dating.
I don't know how to tweak yourguys' profiles, I'm sorry.
(30:51):
Go out in the real world, touchgrass, talk to people.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think there's so many betteroptions to meet people in real
life.
I am a digital native so I getit that being online allows us
to interact with people.
We wouldn't otherwise.
But also, I'm a digital nativeand I've watched what happened
(31:13):
to all of us.
Go outside, touch grass, meetpeople.
It's better.
I promise the social connectionsthat I built through fitness
one.
They make you want to actuallywork out.
So if you're the type of personthat you know, bartleby, I
prefer not to.
Well, it'll actually make youwant to because you get to see
some cool people that you likethere.
(31:34):
It makes you accountable.
And then I think this is one ofthe things I appreciate the most
about the people that I havemet through my fitness endeavors
is that the people you meet ingeneral you're making meaningful
non-transactional connections.
The irony is, those type ofconnections will serve you very
(31:57):
well in life.
That shouldn't be yourmotivation for seeking them out,
but it also and I think thisadds to the loneliness and
alienation that people feel onceyou become an adult and you
enter out into the workforce ina week, the amount of people
that you actually talk to thatdon't want something from you,
(32:17):
that are non-transactional,decreases precipitously, and
particularly more if you getsuccessful at work, you will
encounter people less and lesswho don't want something from
you.
So one of the things I havefound is that the people I have
met in this context of my life,if they want anything from me,
it's probably just some fitnessadvice, but no, I don't know
(32:42):
what it is.
I'm just telling you the truththat this has been just one of
those domains in life where Iactually consistently make some
of the most meaningful and bestfriends.
So, yeah, and in a weird way,even if you're like a
self-interest and self-servingperson, these are the people
that are actually going to showup when you need them.
So if you want to make somereal friends that'll actually
(33:03):
show up for you, highlyrecommend.
And then, yeah, I guess Ialready kind of ran through this
, but I wanted to offer someadvice, so I gave you a bunch of
my top lists here in LosAngeles.
But I would just say experiment, try new things that you're
interested in.
Earlier at the top, I mentionedthat there's a difference
between training and exercise.
Exercise is, of course,movement for movement's sake.
(33:25):
Training is movement to elicita specific response.
I came back to that becauseeven if you're training, like me
right now, I have a strengthprogram that I'm doing and I'm
very serious about it, butthere's still room in my week
for some exercise.
So it doesn't matter how busyyou think you are.
It's great to just put these onthe calendar.
(33:47):
Experiment, try some differentclasses.
You're not making lifetimecommitments.
You can go once and never goback, but chances are you're
going to find things you like.
You're going to find people youlike.
Just get out there, try stuff.
This is where I do think it'sfine to go and experiment.
Go to a boot camp class with afriend if they like it.
(34:09):
Who cares?
I'm not a fan of those workoutsfor your training program, but
if you just want to go get someexercise with a friend, that is
a great idea as far as I'mconcerned.
Why Number four, if you will?
This one, I think, really doestie back to my busy bodies, but,
(34:29):
honestly, training and learninghow to achieve my fitness goals
was something that I was ableto carry directly over to real
life goals personal,professional, family, whatever
it may be.
The exact same process that Iuse to improve my fitness was
(34:49):
actually something that, when Istarted to trade and invest,
that I took over directly.
So what I mean, there isactually the journaling and the
logging.
First time I ever did that wasactually with exercise programs
and nutrition programs.
I kind of honed my skills onjournaling, if you will.
(35:10):
And then that exact same skillset I took over to investing
when I started to get intooptions trading.
Every time I placed a trade, Iwrite down what the reason was.
And the reason you do that inreal time is that, even though
I'll say this out loud andyou'll think I don't do that.
Literally everybody does this.
(35:31):
So if you don't write down whyyou placed that trade the day
you placed it, in a week you'regoing to have a different reason
for why you took that trade andit's going to be this nebulous
moving target.
You're going to move goalpostsconstantly and not see yourself
doing it.
So and again, I learned thiswith my food logs You'll think
you're eating super clean and ifyou're not writing it down,
(35:54):
you're just missing a lot ofstuff that's going in there.
And then same thing, same withyour workouts.
If you're not actually lookingat the progression, seeing the
sets, and you're just going by,feel you're wrong, you'll be
wrong and you're going to beconsistently wrong, basically
rationalizing whatever you didand saying, yep, that's on
target.
When you have logs, when youhave journals, you don't have
(36:18):
that ability to change thegoalpost later.
You're not going to be able torationalize.
You're going to look back andsee, oh shit, on that day I said
this and that didn't happen.
Being confronted with thatinformation isn't bad.
That's actually a great,because now we can actually do
something good, bad, indifferent, whatever, when you see, and
(36:40):
we'll stick with the investingthing, because I want to talk to
my busy bodies right now.
If I write down the thesis foran investment and then in six
months that thesis is obviouslybroken based on what's happened,
it's going to be a lot moredifficult for me to tell myself
no, no, no, I'm still right, Ishould stick with this.
It's going to be obvious thatyou were wrong and then you'll
(37:00):
move on and get into things thatare a better use of your time
Again.
I personally and maybe I'm justprojecting, I'm the only person
in the world with this problembut I really do think that if
you don't write those thingsdown, those reasons are going to
change over time and you'regoing to allow yourself to write
(37:20):
a little story where you'vealways been right and the world
just hasn't conformed yet.
Anyway, all that to say, I getyou business people.
This can probably feel like awaste of time.
I honestly think that the sameskills that make you great in
business and work, that you canactually use those in your
(37:42):
fitness goals, and these arejust going to reinforce the
habits that you probably alreadylearned in a different domain.
I'm an idiot, so I had to learnit with sports.
No, I actually just think thatthis isn't a skill set that you
don't already have.
Don't look at athletes andthink, oh, that's not me, I'm
just not that type.
Nope, the same stuff you did toclimb the ladder and get to
(38:04):
where you're at is exactly howyou achieve goals in fitness.
I think you might find that youjust enjoy the process if you
see that it's fundamentally thesame thing that you get to do in
work whenever you have aproject or a result that you
want to make happen.
My busy bodies.
I know that you don't want totake a lot of time away from
(38:24):
what you're doing, but workoutsdon't have to take a long time.
That's bullshit.
Yeah, I actually just thinkyou'll be really, really good at
this if you apply that samekind of thinking you've done in
your professional life to yourown health and fitness, and then
, ultimately, you do get to reapthe reward of that later.
So it'd be a good idea to getin there.
(38:47):
Last one, perhaps the mostimportant to me right now, but
also even if you would justprefer not to there's a lot of
shit that I don't want to doevery single day, to be totally
honest, but there is this littlegirl whose eyes are always on
me.
So modeling healthy behaviorsfor others to me is also going
(39:08):
to be one of the most importantreasons why even if you don't
like this why you might want toconsider doing it anyway.
When I became a parent, I justfelt my daughter's eyes and I
felt a greater responsibilityfor all of my actions, my
(39:29):
reactions, my impulses, you nameit.
It was really obvious stufflike how I talk about food and
carbs and fat and this, and thatit was like, oh wow, I can't do
that in front of a little girlor I'm going to head her
straight for some eatingdisorders, and I know that
because I had them myself at onepoint.
(39:51):
So I'm really not trying toadvance my daughter's curve on
orthorexia or, in my case, orany other disordered eating
pattern, but again, that one waskind of obvious because I'm a
trainer and people talk to meabout fat loss and things like
that all the time.
So it was very obvious that Iwas going to need to kind of
(40:15):
alter my language andrelationship with food around my
daughter.
What was less obvious to me werethings like my attitude, my
consistency and the unspokenvalues, and so, first off, I'm
saying that I not that I figuredit out.
I'm just saying that I'm awareof that, and every day I try to
(40:41):
become more aware of what am Idoing?
What am I modeling to mydaughter?
And first off, I'll be honest,I actually just love whenever I
see my daughter copy any of mybehaviors, even the bad ones
yeah, like she's used some ofthe same cuss words I do, and
(41:03):
admittedly, my first reaction isto laugh and I think it's
hilarious.
But then, almost immediately,this other thing kind of sets in
, because the sword really doescut both ways.
And as flattering as it is tosee the person I care about the
most in the world copying meAlso, there is simultaneously
just that massive responsibilitythat I feel because, to be
(41:24):
honest and I've seen this,namely with some of my
stubbornness and some of myother attitudes, but I have seen
my daughter adopt them and itit shows it to me.
It's a reflection you don'treally get to see.
It's very obvious to me whereit comes from, and so I can't
(41:47):
complain about that.
That's actually something Ifind ironic is, when you listen
to other people complainingabout their kids, how often
those traits might map up, butthey're not making that
connection just yet, and so,anyway, I am very, very aware of
that and I have to admit, mydaughter, first off, is awesome,
but basically any bad habit shehas, blame me.
(42:10):
It probably was me.
And then, yeah, slight diatribe,but you know, I'm a millennial,
so I just grew up with thoseop-ed pieces about how my
generation was destroyingeverything.
And the one thing I'm going topromise to Jen Alpha, my
daughter's generation if there'sanything that I don't like
about you guys, I'm going toblame me and my friends for
(42:33):
raising you.
I'm not going to blame you kids, we're the ones.
And so, anyway, I'm donepreaching out you guys, but I do
think it is incrediblyimportant that we model healthy
behaviors, especially to ourkids.
But one other thing that I'vebeen really lucky with, or at
least I value a lot, because I'ma trainer and because I was a
(42:56):
former athlete I have clients,friends, family, who you know
honestly, I've been having thisconversation with them for years
and they have a whole bunch ofdifferent beliefs and goals
about fitness.
So it's not like everybodyjumps on.
Whatever I say the day I say it,but consistently over years, I
(43:20):
get phone calls, I get emails, Iget people telling me hey, I
tried that thing I'm feelingbetter and I'm going to be
honest, I'm not altruistic atall.
I really, really like it whenpeople tell me that my stuff is
making their life better.
Yeah, like, if you have amassive accomplishment and I
helped you in training, I'mprobably taking credit for it a
(43:44):
little bit, just kidding sort of.
But no, I just want to admitthat modeling healthy behaviors
for me isn't just about likebeing, you know, some altruistic
do-gooder.
I actually get a lot of benefitmyself when people come back
and tell me that what we did ishelping them in their life.
(44:06):
So if the reason I mentionedthat is, if you don't like
working out, if you prefer notto, for whatever reason, trust
me, it just feels good when youmodel and improve other people's
lives.
That's a big reason why I am atrainer.
(44:26):
It's, you know, as you guysknow, it ain't the money.
I'm not even hawkingsupplements.
That's how you actuallymonetize this gig.
So no, as cheesy as it sounds,the reason I can show up to work
every single day and I still doit after as many years as I've
done it.
I genuinely like being a part ofthe process of helping people
realize their goals.
(44:47):
It's really fucking fun andit's even better when, in their
own moment, they think to callme up and tell me about what's
going on and keep me a part ofthat process.
So anyway, I just want tomention that I honestly think
that is one of the greatest whys, in addition to my mental
health.
I think those two the first andlast that we covered here today
(45:11):
modeling healthy behavior andmanaging my own mental those are
the most important whys for me.
We recently laid down obviouslyI have different training goals
that fluctuate throughout theyear, but in a sense for me
those are actually secondary tothe larger goals.
I'm not going to pretend like Idon't have them.
You scholars, you can make funof me because sometimes I am
(45:35):
trying to just tighten up my absand that's silly, superficial,
cosmically stupid and guilty ascharged.
But it does actually fit into alarger plan where I'm actually
answering a lot of differentquestions than how my abs look
in summertime, quite frankly.
(45:56):
But now, before we wrap this up,I actually want to get a quick
counter thesis here, because Ibasically have been kind of
postulating or pushing this ideathat we should seek to find
meaning through fitness, and Ido think we laid down some
really good reasons here, but wealso got to pump the brakes on
this just a little bit.
(46:18):
One of the core projects ofthis entire show has been
cautioning against the extremesof diet and fitness cults, so
there is a different set ofpeople who are trying to push
you to find meaning in fitnessin a very different way than I
just meant it.
There's a very tribal aspect toa lot of diets and workouts.
(46:44):
I'm biting my tongue right now.
I'm not pausing to try to soundprofound.
I want to call out a lot ofthings.
I'm actually not going to,though, because I don't want to
marginalize anybody who's usingthose disciplines or modalities.
I don't think that would bebeneficial, because for me,
there's value in every one ofthese things.
Where they lose me is when theystart telling it that no one
(47:05):
else has any value.
We are in sole possession of allthis knowledge, and a lot of
times I actually think there areplenty of people who have tried
to seek meaning in fitness.
That winds up leading them intothe charlatans, the con men,
the people that we've actuallyspent most of our energy here
(47:26):
talking down.
So I just want to make surethat, when I'm talking about
finding meaning in fitness, thatagain, we're thinking more
about this in the sense ofFrankle, not like let me become
your guru and tell you what todo.
That, I think, is unfortunatelythe most dominant way that
(47:47):
people are finding meaningthrough fitness.
And yeah, it's not even reallyworth naming names, because
basically, if they're popularand famous and yep, I mean them,
sorry, but they're charitableall of branch that we'll throw
to them there's probably a halftruth behind their fitness cult
(48:09):
or their diet cult.
Just don't follow them all theway to the end.
Take what's useful and justthrow the rest away.
And if they tell you they'rethere, singular guru, or you
don't need to talk to anyoneelse or do anything else, just
ignore that.
That's not what we mean whenwe're talking about finding
(48:30):
meaning in fitness.
We're not trying to move peopleinto cults and into the arms of
con men.
So anyway, guys, I just want toget that counterpoint out, but
let's cover the ground one moretime.
So in this episode we did go alittle deep on the philosophical
(48:50):
underpinnings of fitness, atleast as I see it, and I am not
an authority on anything but ourgoal today was truly to just
move beyond the surface levelmotivations that the fitness
industry typically amplifies andexplores some potentially more
profound wise that can drive ustowards physical activity.
(49:15):
Today we really drewinspiration from the work of
Victor Frankel, namely in man'ssearch for meaning.
And again, Frankel views thissearch for meaning as the
fundamental drive, not pleasureseeking, not power.
(49:35):
We also learned from thenegations of Bartleby.
I do love Bartleby.
This isn't like a directcomparison at all, but Bartleby
kind of reminds me of Diogeneswho, yeah, diogenes was the one
that Alexander the Great stoodin the sunshine above him.
(49:57):
And then Diogenes just kind oflooks up to him and he's like
move, get the hell out of mylight.
And no one ever talked toAlexander that way.
So he's just like, wow, who isthis guy Like that?
That's a dude.
I've never met anybody likethat.
And then I guess Aristotle, ornot Aristotle.
Alexander says God, if I wereto come back as anyone else, I
(50:20):
would be Diogenes.
To which Diogenes replied if Iwere to come back as anyone else
, I would come back as Diogenes.
But so, yeah, bartleby is notexactly the same character, but
Bartleby really teaches us thepower of determinant negation
that we actually can learn fromwhat things are not.
(50:42):
So, even though I again do notagree with all of the reasons
that people like to tell me theyhave for not working out.
I've learned a lot over theyears of listening to those
reasons and I do think that whatwe laid down today are going to
be some better whys to answerthose negations of the
(51:03):
Bartleby's.
So, again, what I see is farmore important than just your
physique goals.
Very important why to me isobviously the importance of
addressing mental health andstress reduction.
My clients, most of the peoplethat I think I train with, are
probably coming for thelongevity, aging well, disease
prevention, air quotes, buildingand maintaining social
(51:28):
connections I honestly think isone of the greatest uses of
fitness, particularly in an agewhere I think people are very
alienated.
If you're more concerned withyour business and professional
life, honestly engaging in afitness practice is just going
to help reinforce the way thatyou set and achieve personal or
professional goals.
(51:48):
You're going to find this is askill set that you already
possess.
And lastly, most important, youknow modeling healthy behaviors
to others.
If you don't care aboutanything else, they're at least
know that there's peoplewatching you and modeling their
behaviors on you, and so youdon't really have to like a lot
of things once you recognizethat you're going to see them
(52:11):
again whether you like them ornot.
So anyway, with all that guysthis is certainly not an
exhaustive list.
If you guys have any differentwhys, like what is it that
brings you to train?
If I didn't cover it in today'sepisode, you know, please drop
(52:31):
that in the comments.
Two reasons One, I actuallywant to see them.
That's going to help my process.
Two, that's going to make thealgorithm like the show, and
then we can push this thing outto even more people.
You know.
Last, I just want to close on,you know, one idea from Victor
Frankel but everything can betaken away from a man except for
(52:56):
one thing the last of the humanfreedoms to choose one's
attitude and any given set ofcircumstances, to choose one's
own way.
And we are no longer able tochange a situation.
We are challenged to changeourselves.
So obviously I'm not dense andI'm not naive and I know what's
(53:17):
going on in the world and Ipurposely try to not talk about
it as much as I can Because,again, while there really are a
lot of really important thingsgoing on out there in the larger
world, the reality for me is Ihave a lot of people that count
(53:37):
on me day to day, that are in mycommunity and directly around
me.
So it's no slight on all therest of you, but I'm not as
focused on that.
I'm really not.
I have 24 hours in a day.
I'm just one human being, andso I do focus a lot more on the
things that I can actuallychange, which means a lot of
(53:59):
things I don't actually havetime to engage, and these,
frankly, wind up being a lot ofthe conversations I have with
people, and so that's where Ijust kind of want to come back
and I get it.
I know what's going on.
That being said, I don't thinkI actually agree with your
solution, to be quite frank, andso, anyway, I just want to
(54:22):
challenge everybody If you thinkyou can identify a problem or
something that you want to seeworked on, don't tweet about it,
don't go sign a petition.
Actually, do it.
Little preachy, but I don'tcare.
I'm going to close on this.
(54:43):
My wife is directing a musicalat our school right now and,
yeah, some parents are listening, so I might get in trouble, but
whatever, we're going to air itout right now.
A lot of people complain aboutvarious things, and what I have
noticed.
This isn't scientific, so justan anecdote.
The people who are complainingabout how the play is being run
(55:05):
are also this subset of peoplewho are not involved.
These are the people that Idon't see at pickup.
These are the people who Iliterally don't know their names
.
So, again, we still considertheir inputs, not like you just
throw it out, but I got to behonest.
My wife is a lot nicer aboutlistening to that shit than I am
.
I am the one telling herinterview.
(55:26):
Who the fuck is that?
I don't know that person.
I'm there every day.
So, anyway, I just want tochallenge our community to stay
active.
Stay involved.
Be the change that you want tosee.
Don't talk about it.
Be about it.
I am sick of it.
And if you have a tweet, stormnot going to read it, if you put
(55:47):
out a little blog post on it,I'm not going to see it.
Sorry, no, but again, I justwant to focus us back on.
If you want to change thesituation, do it.
Get involved in your community.
You're going to find tons ofpeople who are going to support
(56:08):
you in those changes you want tomake and if you're going online
and you're engaging it that way, it probably feels hopeless,
desperate and futile, andengaging online it is.
Take that energy out in thereal world, it will not be
wasted, I promise.
Anyway, that's it, guys.
That's all I got today.
Again, I want to thank you forspending your time with me.
(56:31):
Please make sure that you sharethe show that there's a lot of
people that are not having theirneeds met by the fitness
industry.
That's who I want to heartoday's show.
If you know anybody who wouldprefer not to with workout, send
this their way.
Let's continue to grow ourcommunity and, yes, please share
(56:58):
this with somebody that youthink does not enjoy working out
.
Let's see if we can give them adifferent why and maybe a
couple better reasons With thatguys.
Remember mind and muscle areinseparably intertwined.
There are no gains withoutbrains.
Keep lifting and learning.
(57:18):
I'll do the same.
Welcome to the Mind Muscle Podcast.
Here's your host, simon Devere,and welcome back to Mind Muscle
, the place we study the history, science and philosophy behind
(00:25):
everything in health and fitness.
Today I am Simon Devere andthere is nothing new except all
that has been forgotten.
So today I want to take a deepdive into one of my favorite
books of all time.
I was going to make a joke thatwasn't written by Nietzsche,
(00:48):
because you probably suspect Iwas going there.
But yeah, unfortunately it was.
Also the writer was heavilyinspired by Nietzsche, but
anyway, man's Search for Meaning, victor Frankl.
That's where I want to go today, and I know that's again
probably an adjunct positionfitness and Frankl, but I don't
(01:10):
think it is.
So, yeah, the other day I was atthe morning mile.
This is something my daughter'sschool does before school.
The kids go and run before theyhead in.
This is when the parents kindof sit and, you know, kovetch
(01:30):
rant, just you know, get it offour chest.
But anyway, talking with afriend of mine, he does
construction, so he was comingover and talking to me about his
back pain, his hip pain, and heis, you know, a former athlete,
has been very athleticthroughout his life, has a job
where he moves a lot.
So he, you know, even though heknows he's talking to a trainer
(01:52):
he's not trying to make me feelbad, but he's just explaining
how fitness, never reallyconnected for him, kind of feels
like a waste of time.
He, admittedly, is not veryconcerned with physique or those
type of goals, so a lot of themessaging that the fitness space
targets doesn't really landwith my friend at all.
(02:17):
And you know, admittedly,growing up in Montana working on
construction, I've known thisguy many, many, many times over.
But yeah, so anyway, just as wewere talking, he was explaining
, you know, the pains and stuffthat he has.
So again, I listened and I knowthis guy, I know a lot of these
(02:41):
guys, and instead of giving himlike a fat loss diet or a
hypertrophy program that I knowhe won't care about at all
because it's not relevant to hislife or his values or goals, we
did actually just talk about amobility circuit that I like
doing while coffee is brewing.
That makes it easier for me toget through my workday, which
(03:05):
the only similarity he and Ihave in our workdays is that
they're both physical.
We're doing really differentstuff but I, you know, carry a
lot of equipment set up, teardown all day.
So I do know what it's like tobe on your feet and using your
body for labor.
So I just showed him a mobilitycircuit that I like to make it
easier to go to work, quitefrankly.
(03:25):
But all of that that actuallyjogs loose this connection to me
between fitness and Frankel.
And really it comes back to why.
The most indelible quote fromMansearch for Meaning, I believe
, is those who have a why canbear almost any how.
(03:49):
And again I just want to pointout because when people see
Victor Frankel on your Kindleversus Nietzsche, they react
very differently.
That really famous Frankelquote is a Nietzsche quote.
Appeared in Twilight of theIdols, how to Philosophize with
a Hammer.
But yeah, when Nietzsche saidit he said if we have our own
(04:09):
why in life, we shall get alongwith almost any how.
Man does not strive forpleasure.
Only the Englishman does.
Just included that last bitbecause that's actually like
Nietzsche's kind of attempts athumor and wit which I think a
lot of his readers don't pick upon, reading him a little bit
too literally, particularly.
(04:29):
If you've ever heard thecritique of people saying he's a
megalomaniac, they probablyread Eke Homo and the jokes went
over their head.
But anyway, what I was going tosay, I'm going to stop
pretending to be an Englishprofessor, except I'm not.
I'm going to do it a little bitmore, but cheap.
Appeal to authority.
My mom is an English professorso, even though I didn't run any
(04:52):
of this by her, none of this isapproved by an actual academic.
There is an appeal to authority.
I know an English professor, soI don't know.
Trust my breakdown, but no,anyway, talking with my buddy, I
again was just thinking aboutthe.
There's a lot of different whysas to why one might work out,
(05:15):
and it's not lost on me that thefitness space really amplifies
a very narrow set of reasons totrain and I do believe that
these broadly leave a lot ofpeople out, not just my buddy
who is a construction worker.
I think there's a lot ofdifferent types, if you will,
(05:36):
who are not really going to findtheir whys answered in the vast
majority of what comes out fromthe fitness industry.
So I do want to actually take alittle time.
We'll talk a little bit aboutFrankel, we'll talk about a
couple other books I like, butthe main goal and objective
today I want to talk aboutdifferent ways of, I guess,
(05:58):
finding meaning in fitness.
That's a little too big.
Let's walk that back.
We should maybe say let's juststick with the whys.
I want to explore somedifferent whys that I believe
are going to be salient for manymore people than people who are
just out there trying toimprove their physique or get a
(06:20):
revenge body or go to a divorceor spring break, and again, I
don't mind that.
But I know from years of doingthis that doesn't really
encompass all of the reasons whypeople come into a gym.
So I just want to take sometime today to amplify and
identify some of these otherwhys that I've run into with
(06:43):
clients, friends, family overthe years.
And then, yeah, if we will, inman's social meaning, frankel
posits that the core drive forhumans is not actually the
pursuit of pleasure, as Freudhas suggested.
He also didn't believe that itwas the pursuit of power, as
(07:04):
Adler had argued People whothink this is important detail
but he'd actually lived in aconcentration camp and living
through that experience made himbelieve that the search for
meaning was actually thefundamental drive.
And so again back to he who hasa why can suffer almost any how
(07:29):
.
If you have meaning that youcan attach to your suffering.
You can pretty much putyourself through anything, and
this isn't just some dude with apodcast saying that.
I'm actually hearkening back toFrankel, who actually lived
through trying times, not yourpodcasting friend in Los Angeles
who doesn't actually think he'slived through trying times.
(07:52):
So, yeah, we're going toreference Frankel on how to find
meaning in suffering and,admittedly, although we're going
to call working out suffering,let's be honest up front.
Our level of suffering is in noway shape or form resembling
what Frankel is talking about.
Just think we can learn from it.
So anyway, I almost want toattempt to make a philosophical
(08:17):
foundation for fitness of sorts,but before we do that, I do
have to pretend to be an Englishprofessor just a little bit
more.
So in speaking with my friend,there was one other work that
just kind of immediately joggedinto my mind, because he was
telling me and like a lot ofpeople do, it's not in bad faith
(08:40):
or anything, but they'll tellme all of the reasons why they
don't like working out, andanyway it just reminds me of a
short story by Herman Melville.
Anybody know Bartleby theScrivener.
So anyway, I can run down thisone quick and we're not going to
(09:00):
do any critical analysis, justplot summary.
So there is this unassumingScrivener named Bartleby.
He works for a lawyer on WallStreet.
Initially Bartleby is adiligent worker, but gradually
he begins to decline work tasksagain and again with his famous
line I would prefer not to.
(09:21):
It is a really funny and shortread, but there's actually no
malice when Bartleby says hewould prefer not to.
He just kind of says it anddoesn't do whatever he was asked
to do.
And then, yeah, eventually he'skind of just like staring at a
wall or looking out the windowand not doing anything that his
(09:45):
boss asks him to do.
So I am going to compare peoplewho don't want to work out to
Bartleby.
But I want to just say up frontI actually love Bartleby.
So don't take that like aslammer and knock if you
identify with any of theBartlebys that we're going to
(10:05):
talk about today.
No, I love Bartleby.
He is a philosophical hero ofmine, and the reason I want to
go that direction, frame it thisway, is that what Bartleby
really teaches is actually a weget to be philosophy nerds up
front.
So we're actually kind ofdealing with a Hegelian concept
(10:28):
that is going to be calleddeterminant negation.
So, in plain English, negationis actually part of what
determines what an object is.
You have to consider what it isnot and that gives it sort of
shape.
So all that's.
I actually think it's veryimportant that we consider what
(10:48):
Bartleby has to say aboutworking out, if you will.
I don't agree, obviously.
I've chosen to be a trainer andwork out, so we don't agree in
action.
But I do believe that there aretons of valuable insights that
we can glean from determinantnegation or, in this instance,
(11:09):
just considering what thisvarious cast of Bartleby's that
I've met over the years wouldsay to my workout habit.
And yeah, like I said, I dowant to consider their opinion,
knowing up front I'm not goingto agree with it.
But again, I think every singleone of these little characters
that I just made up, quitefrankly, I think they all have a
(11:32):
valid point and I do want toaddress them when we get down to
establishing different andbetter wise for a lot of people.
But, that being said, we gotBartleby the Scrivener from
Melville.
In my years of training, I'vealso met a little cast of
Bartleby's, if you will, and sothe first one, not too
(11:55):
dissimilar from the Scrivener,but I know Bartleby the busybody
, and so the busybody issomebody who is really really
attached to work, has lots andlots of work related commitments
.
They believe that availablefree time should be spent
(12:15):
working or getting ahead, andexercise is perceived as a low
priority because it doesn't haveanything to do with their
career advancement or meetingany of their goals.
So again, I do think that foryou, bartleby the busybody is
out there.
If you're listening today, Ithink a lot of the issues you
(12:38):
raise are incredibly valid.
So, again, I actually thinkthat I'm not going to try to
convince you that this is goingto add time to your day, which
it won't.
It's actually going to taketime.
We're going to make otherarguments for our busybodies
that perhaps there's otherbenefits to working out besides
(12:59):
the way they look, and thatperhaps putting even in just a
little bit of time into exercisemight actually help with our
productivity.
Bartleby the laborer that's myconstruction guys.
I grew up around this one, so Iknow this one really well.
These Bartleby's generally feelthat one they're tired at the
(13:21):
end of a work day because theyactually use their body.
They don't believe that theyneed to do any exercise because
they get plenty of exercise andthen actually caught myself with
some lazy language right there.
Can I run that sentence back?
They believe they don't needtraining because they get plenty
of exercise, and I thinkthey're correct in that they get
(13:42):
plenty of exercise.
But I actually delineatebetween training and exercise,
and this is a cohort that Iactually think can really really
benefit from training, butmaybe not the type that they're
seeing on Instagram or out inthe magazines wherever they get
information about fitness.
This group is going to be a lotmore concerned about over
(14:02):
exhaustion, over training.
They actually need their bodiesin work, so going all out in
the gym is a pretty stupid idea.
Again, what I'm going to moreargue to this crowd is that,
yeah, we probably don't need toexercise, but I bet there is
some training we could do toimprove the way your body feels
when you're at work.
(14:25):
Next one I got down here for youguys Bartleby the scholar.
Yeah, so, in addition tospending a lot of time on
construction sites, my parentswere divorced, so I spent the
other half of the year oncollege campuses.
I met Bartleby the scholaralmost as often as I met
Bartleby the laborer.
The scholar generallyassociates exercise and gym
(14:48):
culture broadly with vanity,superficiality and probably
stupidity.
They prefer activities that aregoing to be more intellectually
stimulating or creative.
And though these are veryintelligent people, I generally
disagree with how they haveframed all of the benefits of
(15:12):
exercise, that there are onlysuperficial benefits.
So to this person we'reprobably going to highlight that
one.
There are a lot of differentexercise forms.
Maybe they're thinking aboutbodybuilding, maybe they're
thinking about a very narrow orlimited set.
Maybe we're going to talk aboutsome different exercise forms
that go beyond the physique andthat actually align with their
(15:38):
values and interests.
So again, for me there'sactually a wide array of things,
but there's a lot of exercisethat are going to encourage flow
, states, creativity and,frankly, just even give you a
chance to have some great ideas,which might just be as simple
as walking.
But again, I think it's alittle bit short-sighted for my
(15:58):
Bartleby the scholars to prefernot to exercise dogmatically.
I actually think they might beleaving some mental gains on the
table if that's their choice,one that I'm getting to know
better and better.
Bartleby the parent, of coursestruggles to find time between
managing childcare, work,household duties.
(16:20):
Everything's going on.
I have so much empathy for thisgroup right here.
No judgment.
I'm trying to figure my shitout myself but you feel guilty
when you spend time on yourselfrather than with your kids or
family needs.
It feels like every second ofyour day needs to be going
towards the larger goal.
(16:41):
You might confess, but yeah,you probably stop watching all
the shows you like.
You don't even go to therestaurants you used to like.
Your entire life has shiftedand it almost feels like
indulgent or like you're fuckingup if you do anything for
yourself.
So, anyway, don't worry, if youhave a daily workout, you're not
(17:03):
a narcissist.
You're not neglecting yourresponsibilities as a caregiver.
If you're on a plane, theyusually tell you when you're
taken off like hey, put yourmask on before helping other
people.
So for you parents, that's howwe're coming at this, is we.
I understand there's a lot ofthings that are way more
(17:24):
important than getting yourworkout in, but I want to remind
you to put your mask on first.
You can't help anybody if yourun out of oxygen, my friend, so
don't forget to look out foryourself.
That's Bartleby that I knowwell, is, of course, bartleby
the injured.
And again for this cohort,obviously physical limitations
(17:47):
or symptoms are going to makeexercise seem daunting,
unfeasible, unrealistic,whatever Again, really truthful
underpinning to why they feelthat way.
They're injured or they havechronic pain, whatever it may be
.
I understand how you can getthere.
On the flip side, though, is Iactually think that fear of
(18:08):
exacerbating one's condition canoften lead to people ironically
exacerbating their conditionthrough becoming sedentary.
In this group, of course, we'renot going to be advocating
dangerous or stupid workouts,but I just really have a deep,
(18:29):
fundamental belief that there ismovement that will be
appropriate for absolutelyeverybody, and in my work, I've
obviously worked with youngathletes on up to people in
their 80s doing chair workouts.
So, again, that is where mythoughts come from, with the
idea that there is some movementthat will be appropriate for
(18:50):
everybody.
My last word I'll just have onmy injured folks is that, again,
I understand why you want toprotect your body and not get
hurt anymore.
The thing that I am just goingto try to argue is that if we
don't use our body, then wealready know that it's going to
(19:11):
be a slow decline.
From where we are presently at,there actually is a possibility
of maintaining what we have orpossibly even improving
something, no matter how bad thesituation seems.
Actually, you know quick storymy grandmother recently fell and
broke her hip.
(19:31):
So she went into the hospitalnot in a great situation.
She had to do roughly likethree hours of PT every day.
I was able to keep up with herthrough this process.
We've talked over the yearsabout exactly what I was just
describing chair workouts,various things that she could do
because there were a lot ofmovement restrictions.
(19:51):
So she emphasized to me thatwhen she did the physical
therapy to come back home it wasroughly three hours a day and
she was like, oh, it was all thestuff you were telling me to do
for years.
So again, I just want to tellpeople that you can literally be
in your 80s with a broken hipand there are still things you
(20:14):
can do.
And it was incredibly importantI could tell to my grandmother
to get back home, back to whyshe knew good and well why she
was doing that PT and it wasn'tbecause she loved moving, it
wasn't because she wanted tolook a specific way, she wanted
to get back home and get thehell out of the hospital.
So it's really just moreevidence that if you have a why,
(20:38):
you really can suffer almostanyhow.
But again, the the why's which Iwant to get into now.
You know I was going to tiethese directly to.
You know different, differenttypes my Bartleby's, the busy
body of the laborer but honestlyI think any one of these is
going to be fair game for anyone of these types, so I don't
(21:00):
think it was actually useful togroup them.
So we just got you know, I gotmy cast of people that I know
with exercise would prefer notmy Bartleby's, and so I may even
know a few more.
But next I actually want todive into some reasons why that
that, I think, might be a littlebit more salient to people who
(21:21):
have ever said I prefer not toto their exercise or workout.
So I've touched on this a lotin the past.
But one of the number one, mostimportant why's and this might
be my biggest why, to be totallyhonest but mental health and
stress reduction.
I'll go ahead and tell the storyone more time.
(21:41):
But when I really started toget very regimented and dogmatic
, dare I say, about my ownworkout, it was when I was in
college.
At the time I was also beingtreated for depression with
SSRIs, trasadone and some otherpharmaceutical options.
So the truth is I don't want totell this story like this is a
(22:04):
model for other people to follow.
What I did was really haphazardand lucky.
So learn from the story, don'tcopy it.
Eventually I did take myself offof anti-depressants, or I just
I just stopped taking them.
I actually noticed that after Itook them my mood was a little
bit off, I was a little moreirritable and you know we're
(22:27):
friends here.
Yeah, like within that, like 10, 15 minute period after I would
take my anti-depressants,that's when I was just a little
prickly Shall we say.
Anybody who's played sportswith me you know what I'm
talking about.
But it actually amplified that.
I don't need a lot of help withthat, and it was just one of
(22:49):
those things that I reallyaccidentally discovered.
I'm living in Montana, it'swinter.
I believe that I'm alsosuffering from seasonal affect
disorder.
That could just be because Iwas a psychology student at the
time and when they give you yourdiagnostic manual, you just
start diagnosing yourself witheverything.
But anyway, at the time I'mgetting treated for depression.
I'm convinced I have someseasonal affect going on.
(23:10):
In addition to everything elseI'm reading and just one coping
mechanism that I just stumbledinto, frankly, because it was
cold and dark out all the timewas to go to the gym.
It was warm, there was lightsand I basically was in there
with every you know non-schoolor work hour I did just kind of
(23:33):
accidentally discovered thatexercising every day did more to
manage my mood than themedicine that I was taking.
There is a lot of scientificevidence now backing up what I
experienced.
So again, we do need to caution.
(23:54):
Though what I did right therenot responsible, I didn't talk
to my doctors, I didn't talkwith anybody about it.
So it would be reallyirresponsible for some random
podcasting dude to tell you togo off your meds.
I am not saying that.
What I am saying is maybeconsider adding exercise.
If you already are on meds orif you haven't gone on them yet
(24:17):
You're thinking about thatconversation with a professional
why not try and exerciseregimen first and just see what
happens?
Don't never go and talk toanybody, but just see if adding
a workout of some kind doesimprove your mental health
symptoms.
In my experience it workedgreat.
And then again I was actuallyjust scanning literature.
(24:40):
I didn't want to just read backthe studies to you guys, but
obviously there are studies nowshowing promise with depression,
anxiety, honestly, just anumber of different mental
health issues are showingpositive outcomes with exercise.
Again, don't go off your medsand say that Simon told you to.
(25:01):
I did not exercise and go talkto doctor about your meds.
That's what Simon actually said.
So why number two?
I think this is maybe one ofthe biggest ones that comes up
with my actual real life clientsLongevity, aging gracefully,
disease prevention, which willput an air, quotes, because I
(25:21):
think that's a little bitcharlatany to promise, but
obviously exercising and a setus up a lot better for warding
off a lot of the issues thatcome with father time.
We did a whole episode on onwhat I believe the best
practices for aging, forlongevity, are, but this one
(25:43):
actually has a lot more salienceto me now.
Even though I don't look likethe anti aging cohort quite yet
as a father, it just really isimportant to me now that I am
around at the big days in mydaughter's life.
So I already am thinking 20, 30years down the road and I'm
thinking what I want to do onthose days.
(26:07):
So, like if my daughter getsmarried, I really feel like I
should be able to dance at thatceremony.
I don't want to be a guysitting in a chair off on the
corner.
So I'm going to do the thingsthat I have to do to set myself
up for that.
If my daughter ever has kids,I'd really like to teach them my
(26:29):
love of hiking.
So I am already kind of workingback from like, well, okay, when
I'm 80, I'm going to need to beable to climb up K2.
But that's what I do as I workback from the things that I want
to do at specific ages, and I'mnot entirely serious on the K2
(26:50):
thing.
But I definitely wouldn't turnit down.
That'd be pretty cool at 80.
But no, so a lot of times Ireally am thinking of that more
and more and more is literallyreverse engineering.
Where do I need to be at 38 sothat I could be where I want to
be at 60, 70, 80, etc.
(27:10):
And I'm not going to lie, Ireally do think that far out I'm
not going to be engaging inbehaviors that aren't going to
be setting me up for what I saymy goals are.
There's nothing that's thatimportant to me.
Quite frankly.
This one was always big for meand I think this can be a much
better draw for people thanphysical goals, stuff like that.
(27:33):
A great why, for fitness reallycan be building and maintaining
social connections.
I think one of the biggestproblems affecting pretty much
everybody right now in theinformation age is alienation
and loneliness.
Everybody is hell, whatever,all right, and if you've been
out to dinner with me, maybe I'mtalking to you.
You go out with friends andliterally watch what happens
(27:57):
over.
Like you know, we watchfootball and then I'm the only
guy not looking at their phoneand I actually don't get, on
some level, why people go out togo sit on their phones together
.
So anyway, I just know thatthat lacking real world
connection is negativelyimpacting everybody, even people
(28:18):
who don't realize it.
You need to go outside andtouch grass and talk to real
people every now and again.
Yeah, I'm going to leave itthere because I could go off on
that point, but one of the greatthings about my job I used to
teach group fitness classes.
So, to be totally honest, Iestablished so many lasting
(28:41):
relationships with the peoplewho came to my classes that is
still.
There's a number of people whostill call me who I run into,
and just that that sharedexperience that we had really
builds lasting relationships.
It's not just that the classesI taught, but I've played in
(29:03):
recreational sports leagues.
A lot of the guys that were onthose teams with me are still
like my best friends to this day.
There's there's an old adage,you know for your romantic
relationships that you knowthose who train together stay
together.
It's fun saying.
I'm not going to lie, though.
(29:23):
Guys, me and my wife don'tactually do that.
We do not do our daily workoutstogether.
I'm a trainer, she's not.
It just puts in a bad dynamicof me just telling her what to
do.
That being said, we totally goon dog walks, dog walks, hikes,
go to the beach, so there is alot of exercise that we do
together, but I don't want toput out that image like like me
(29:46):
and my wife are in the gymtogether.
Actually, that would not be anideal scenario for either one of
us to train.
And again, I just think there'sample opportunities to use your
workout or your fitnessendeavors to actually, you know,
your goal isn't to get a betterbody or whatever.
It's just to hang out withpeople that you actually care
(30:08):
about, make new connections,meet people.
You know just A few things I'vedone around LA.
I do pick up basketball.
I go to a boxing gym.
I'm at the Santa Monica Stairs.
I hit trails.
There was a morning swim meetthat I used to go to when I was
training for a triathlon.
There's running groups.
Actually, I just heard aboutone in Venice.
Right now, I think like athousand people are running in
(30:29):
the streets.
So, anyway, if you're in LA andyou want a running group, go do
that.
La Lakers meet over at adifferent site.
There's cycling clubs.
There are just countlessopportunities to get out and
meet people.
So if you're, you know, I gotfriends that are going through
divorces wondering how to meetpeople.
I didn't do any online dating.
I don't know how to tweak yourguys' profiles, I'm sorry.
(30:51):
Go out in the real world, touchgrass, talk to people.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think there's so many betteroptions to meet people in real
life.
I am a digital native so I getit that being online allows us
to interact with people.
We wouldn't otherwise.
But also, I'm a digital nativeand I've watched what happened
(31:13):
to all of us.
Go outside, touch grass, meetpeople.
It's better.
I promise the social connectionsthat I built through fitness
one.
They make you want to actuallywork out.
So if you're the type of personthat you know, bartleby, I
prefer not to.
Well, it'll actually make youwant to because you get to see
some cool people that you likethere.
(31:34):
It makes you accountable.
And then I think this is one ofthe things I appreciate the most
about the people that I havemet through my fitness endeavors
is that the people you meet ingeneral you're making meaningful
non-transactional connections.
The irony is, those type ofconnections will serve you very
(31:57):
well in life.
That shouldn't be yourmotivation for seeking them out,
but it also and I think thisadds to the loneliness and
alienation that people feel onceyou become an adult and you
enter out into the workforce ina week, the amount of people
that you actually talk to thatdon't want something from you,
(32:17):
that are non-transactional,decreases precipitously, and
particularly more if you getsuccessful at work, you will
encounter people less and lesswho don't want something from
you.
So one of the things I havefound is that the people I have
met in this context of my life,if they want anything from me,
it's probably just some fitnessadvice, but no, I don't know
(32:42):
what it is.
I'm just telling you the truththat this has been just one of
those domains in life where Iactually consistently make some
of the most meaningful and bestfriends.
So, yeah, and in a weird way,even if you're like a
self-interest and self-servingperson, these are the people
that are actually going to showup when you need them.
So if you want to make somereal friends that'll actually
(33:03):
show up for you, highlyrecommend.
And then, yeah, I guess Ialready kind of ran through this
, but I wanted to offer someadvice, so I gave you a bunch of
my top lists here in LosAngeles.
But I would just say experiment, try new things that you're
interested in.
Earlier at the top, I mentionedthat there's a difference
between training and exercise.
Exercise is, of course,movement for movement's sake.
(33:25):
Training is movement to elicita specific response.
I came back to that becauseeven if you're training, like me
right now, I have a strengthprogram that I'm doing and I'm
very serious about it, butthere's still room in my week
for some exercise.
So it doesn't matter how busyyou think you are.
It's great to just put these onthe calendar.
(33:47):
Experiment, try some differentclasses.
You're not making lifetimecommitments.
You can go once and never goback, but chances are you're
going to find things you like.
You're going to find people youlike.
Just get out there, try stuff.
This is where I do think it'sfine to go and experiment.
Go to a boot camp class with afriend if they like it.
(34:09):
Who cares?
I'm not a fan of those workoutsfor your training program, but
if you just want to go get someexercise with a friend, that is
a great idea as far as I'mconcerned.
Why Number four, if you will?
This one, I think, really doestie back to my busy bodies, but,
(34:29):
honestly, training and learninghow to achieve my fitness goals
was something that I was ableto carry directly over to real
life goals personal,professional, family, whatever
it may be.
The exact same process that Iuse to improve my fitness was
(34:49):
actually something that, when Istarted to trade and invest,
that I took over directly.
So what I mean, there isactually the journaling and the
logging.
First time I ever did that wasactually with exercise programs
and nutrition programs.
I kind of honed my skills onjournaling, if you will.
(35:10):
And then that exact same skillset I took over to investing
when I started to get intooptions trading.
Every time I placed a trade, Iwrite down what the reason was.
And the reason you do that inreal time is that, even though
I'll say this out loud andyou'll think I don't do that.
Literally everybody does this.
(35:31):
So if you don't write down whyyou placed that trade the day
you placed it, in a week you'regoing to have a different reason
for why you took that trade andit's going to be this nebulous
moving target.
You're going to move goalpostsconstantly and not see yourself
doing it.
So and again, I learned thiswith my food logs You'll think
you're eating super clean and ifyou're not writing it down,
(35:54):
you're just missing a lot ofstuff that's going in there.
And then same thing, same withyour workouts.
If you're not actually lookingat the progression, seeing the
sets, and you're just going by,feel you're wrong, you'll be
wrong and you're going to beconsistently wrong, basically
rationalizing whatever you didand saying, yep, that's on
target.
When you have logs, when youhave journals, you don't have
(36:18):
that ability to change thegoalpost later.
You're not going to be able torationalize.
You're going to look back andsee, oh shit, on that day I said
this and that didn't happen.
Being confronted with thatinformation isn't bad.
That's actually a great,because now we can actually do
something good, bad, indifferent, whatever, when you see, and
(36:40):
we'll stick with the investingthing, because I want to talk to
my busy bodies right now.
If I write down the thesis foran investment and then in six
months that thesis is obviouslybroken based on what's happened,
it's going to be a lot moredifficult for me to tell myself
no, no, no, I'm still right, Ishould stick with this.
It's going to be obvious thatyou were wrong and then you'll
(37:00):
move on and get into things thatare a better use of your time
Again.
I personally and maybe I'm justprojecting, I'm the only person
in the world with this problembut I really do think that if
you don't write those thingsdown, those reasons are going to
change over time and you'regoing to allow yourself to write
(37:20):
a little story where you'vealways been right and the world
just hasn't conformed yet.
Anyway, all that to say, I getyou business people.
This can probably feel like awaste of time.
I honestly think that the sameskills that make you great in
business and work, that you canactually use those in your
(37:42):
fitness goals, and these arejust going to reinforce the
habits that you probably alreadylearned in a different domain.
I'm an idiot, so I had to learnit with sports.
No, I actually just think thatthis isn't a skill set that you
don't already have.
Don't look at athletes andthink, oh, that's not me, I'm
just not that type.
Nope, the same stuff you did toclimb the ladder and get to
(38:04):
where you're at is exactly howyou achieve goals in fitness.
I think you might find that youjust enjoy the process if you
see that it's fundamentally thesame thing that you get to do in
work whenever you have aproject or a result that you
want to make happen.
My busy bodies.
I know that you don't want totake a lot of time away from
(38:24):
what you're doing, but workoutsdon't have to take a long time.
That's bullshit.
Yeah, I actually just thinkyou'll be really, really good at
this if you apply that samekind of thinking you've done in
your professional life to yourown health and fitness, and then
, ultimately, you do get to reapthe reward of that later.
So it'd be a good idea to getin there.
(38:47):
Last one, perhaps the mostimportant to me right now, but
also even if you would justprefer not to there's a lot of
shit that I don't want to doevery single day, to be totally
honest, but there is this littlegirl whose eyes are always on
me.
So modeling healthy behaviorsfor others to me is also going
(39:08):
to be one of the most importantreasons why even if you don't
like this why you might want toconsider doing it anyway.
When I became a parent, I justfelt my daughter's eyes and I
felt a greater responsibilityfor all of my actions, my
(39:29):
reactions, my impulses, you nameit.
It was really obvious stufflike how I talk about food and
carbs and fat and this, and thatit was like, oh wow, I can't do
that in front of a little girlor I'm going to head her
straight for some eatingdisorders, and I know that
because I had them myself at onepoint.
(39:51):
So I'm really not trying toadvance my daughter's curve on
orthorexia or, in my case, orany other disordered eating
pattern, but again, that one waskind of obvious because I'm a
trainer and people talk to meabout fat loss and things like
that all the time.
So it was very obvious that Iwas going to need to kind of
(40:15):
alter my language andrelationship with food around my
daughter.
What was less obvious to me werethings like my attitude, my
consistency and the unspokenvalues, and so, first off, I'm
saying that I not that I figuredit out.
I'm just saying that I'm awareof that, and every day I try to
(40:41):
become more aware of what am Idoing?
What am I modeling to mydaughter?
And first off, I'll be honest,I actually just love whenever I
see my daughter copy any of mybehaviors, even the bad ones
yeah, like she's used some ofthe same cuss words I do, and
(41:03):
admittedly, my first reaction isto laugh and I think it's
hilarious.
But then, almost immediately,this other thing kind of sets in
, because the sword really doescut both ways.
And as flattering as it is tosee the person I care about the
most in the world copying meAlso, there is simultaneously
just that massive responsibilitythat I feel because, to be
(41:24):
honest and I've seen this,namely with some of my
stubbornness and some of myother attitudes, but I have seen
my daughter adopt them and itit shows it to me.
It's a reflection you don'treally get to see.
It's very obvious to me whereit comes from, and so I can't
(41:47):
complain about that.
That's actually something Ifind ironic is, when you listen
to other people complainingabout their kids, how often
those traits might map up, butthey're not making that
connection just yet, and so,anyway, I am very, very aware of
that and I have to admit, mydaughter, first off, is awesome,
but basically any bad habit shehas, blame me.
(42:10):
It probably was me.
And then, yeah, slight diatribe,but you know, I'm a millennial,
so I just grew up with thoseop-ed pieces about how my
generation was destroyingeverything.
And the one thing I'm going topromise to Jen Alpha, my
daughter's generation if there'sanything that I don't like
about you guys, I'm going toblame me and my friends for
(42:33):
raising you.
I'm not going to blame you kids, we're the ones.
And so, anyway, I'm donepreaching out you guys, but I do
think it is incrediblyimportant that we model healthy
behaviors, especially to ourkids.
But one other thing that I'vebeen really lucky with, or at
least I value a lot, because I'ma trainer and because I was a
(42:56):
former athlete I have clients,friends, family, who you know
honestly, I've been having thisconversation with them for years
and they have a whole bunch ofdifferent beliefs and goals
about fitness.
So it's not like everybodyjumps on.
Whatever I say the day I say it,but consistently over years, I
(43:20):
get phone calls, I get emails, Iget people telling me hey, I
tried that thing I'm feelingbetter and I'm going to be
honest, I'm not altruistic atall.
I really, really like it whenpeople tell me that my stuff is
making their life better.
Yeah, like, if you have amassive accomplishment and I
helped you in training, I'mprobably taking credit for it a
(43:44):
little bit, just kidding sort of.
But no, I just want to admitthat modeling healthy behaviors
for me isn't just about likebeing, you know, some altruistic
do-gooder.
I actually get a lot of benefitmyself when people come back
and tell me that what we did ishelping them in their life.
(44:06):
So if the reason I mentionedthat is, if you don't like
working out, if you prefer notto, for whatever reason, trust
me, it just feels good when youmodel and improve other people's
lives.
That's a big reason why I am atrainer.
(44:26):
It's, you know, as you guysknow, it ain't the money.
I'm not even hawkingsupplements.
That's how you actuallymonetize this gig.
So no, as cheesy as it sounds,the reason I can show up to work
every single day and I still doit after as many years as I've
done it.
I genuinely like being a part ofthe process of helping people
realize their goals.
(44:47):
It's really fucking fun andit's even better when, in their
own moment, they think to callme up and tell me about what's
going on and keep me a part ofthat process.
So anyway, I just want tomention that I honestly think
that is one of the greatest whys, in addition to my mental
health.
I think those two the first andlast that we covered here today
(45:11):
modeling healthy behavior andmanaging my own mental those are
the most important whys for me.
We recently laid down obviouslyI have different training goals
that fluctuate throughout theyear, but in a sense for me
those are actually secondary tothe larger goals.
I'm not going to pretend like Idon't have them.
You scholars, you can make funof me because sometimes I am
(45:35):
trying to just tighten up my absand that's silly, superficial,
cosmically stupid and guilty ascharged.
But it does actually fit into alarger plan where I'm actually
answering a lot of differentquestions than how my abs look
in summertime, quite frankly.
(45:56):
But now, before we wrap this up,I actually want to get a quick
counter thesis here, because Ibasically have been kind of
postulating or pushing this ideathat we should seek to find
meaning through fitness, and Ido think we laid down some
really good reasons here, but wealso got to pump the brakes on
this just a little bit.
(46:18):
One of the core projects ofthis entire show has been
cautioning against the extremesof diet and fitness cults, so
there is a different set ofpeople who are trying to push
you to find meaning in fitnessin a very different way than I
just meant it.
There's a very tribal aspect toa lot of diets and workouts.
(46:44):
I'm biting my tongue right now.
I'm not pausing to try to soundprofound.
I want to call out a lot ofthings.
I'm actually not going to,though, because I don't want to
marginalize anybody who's usingthose disciplines or modalities.
I don't think that would bebeneficial, because for me,
there's value in every one ofthese things.
Where they lose me is when theystart telling it that no one
(47:05):
else has any value.
We are in sole possession of allthis knowledge, and a lot of
times I actually think there areplenty of people who have tried
to seek meaning in fitness.
That winds up leading them intothe charlatans, the con men,
the people that we've actuallyspent most of our energy here
(47:26):
talking down.
So I just want to make surethat, when I'm talking about
finding meaning in fitness, thatagain, we're thinking more
about this in the sense ofFrankle, not like let me become
your guru and tell you what todo.
That, I think, is unfortunatelythe most dominant way that
(47:47):
people are finding meaningthrough fitness.
And yeah, it's not even reallyworth naming names, because
basically, if they're popularand famous and yep, I mean them,
sorry, but they're charitableall of branch that we'll throw
to them there's probably a halftruth behind their fitness cult
(48:09):
or their diet cult.
Just don't follow them all theway to the end.
Take what's useful and justthrow the rest away.
And if they tell you they'rethere, singular guru, or you
don't need to talk to anyoneelse or do anything else, just
ignore that.
That's not what we mean whenwe're talking about finding
(48:30):
meaning in fitness.
We're not trying to move peopleinto cults and into the arms of
con men.
So anyway, guys, I just want toget that counterpoint out, but
let's cover the ground one moretime.
So in this episode we did go alittle deep on the philosophical
(48:50):
underpinnings of fitness, atleast as I see it, and I am not
an authority on anything but ourgoal today was truly to just
move beyond the surface levelmotivations that the fitness
industry typically amplifies andexplores some potentially more
profound wise that can drive ustowards physical activity.
(49:15):
Today we really drewinspiration from the work of
Victor Frankel, namely in man'ssearch for meaning.
And again, Frankel views thissearch for meaning as the
fundamental drive, not pleasureseeking, not power.
(49:35):
We also learned from thenegations of Bartleby.
I do love Bartleby.
This isn't like a directcomparison at all, but Bartleby
kind of reminds me of Diogeneswho, yeah, diogenes was the one
that Alexander the Great stoodin the sunshine above him.
(49:57):
And then Diogenes just kind oflooks up to him and he's like
move, get the hell out of mylight.
And no one ever talked toAlexander that way.
So he's just like, wow, who isthis guy Like that?
That's a dude.
I've never met anybody likethat.
And then I guess Aristotle, ornot Aristotle.
Alexander says God, if I wereto come back as anyone else, I
(50:20):
would be Diogenes.
To which Diogenes replied if Iwere to come back as anyone else
, I would come back as Diogenes.
But so, yeah, bartleby is notexactly the same character, but
Bartleby really teaches us thepower of determinant negation
that we actually can learn fromwhat things are not.
(50:42):
So, even though I again do notagree with all of the reasons
that people like to tell me theyhave for not working out.
I've learned a lot over theyears of listening to those
reasons and I do think that whatwe laid down today are going to
be some better whys to answerthose negations of the
(51:03):
Bartleby's.
So, again, what I see is farmore important than just your
physique goals.
Very important why to me isobviously the importance of
addressing mental health andstress reduction.
My clients, most of the peoplethat I think I train with, are
probably coming for thelongevity, aging well, disease
prevention, air quotes, buildingand maintaining social
(51:28):
connections I honestly think isone of the greatest uses of
fitness, particularly in an agewhere I think people are very
alienated.
If you're more concerned withyour business and professional
life, honestly engaging in afitness practice is just going
to help reinforce the way thatyou set and achieve personal or
professional goals.
(51:48):
You're going to find this is askill set that you already
possess.
And lastly, most important, youknow modeling healthy behaviors
to others.
If you don't care aboutanything else, they're at least
know that there's peoplewatching you and modeling their
behaviors on you, and so youdon't really have to like a lot
of things once you recognizethat you're going to see them
(52:11):
again whether you like them ornot.
So anyway, with all that guysthis is certainly not an
exhaustive list.
If you guys have any differentwhys, like what is it that
brings you to train?
If I didn't cover it in today'sepisode, you know, please drop
(52:31):
that in the comments.
Two reasons One, I actuallywant to see them.
That's going to help my process.
Two, that's going to make thealgorithm like the show, and
then we can push this thing outto even more people.
You know.
Last, I just want to close on,you know, one idea from Victor
Frankel but everything can betaken away from a man except for
(52:56):
one thing the last of the humanfreedoms to choose one's
attitude and any given set ofcircumstances, to choose one's
own way.
And we are no longer able tochange a situation.
We are challenged to changeourselves.
So obviously I'm not dense andI'm not naive and I know what's
(53:17):
going on in the world and Ipurposely try to not talk about
it as much as I can Because,again, while there really are a
lot of really important thingsgoing on out there in the larger
world, the reality for me is Ihave a lot of people that count
(53:37):
on me day to day, that are in mycommunity and directly around
me.
So it's no slight on all therest of you, but I'm not as
focused on that.
I'm really not.
I have 24 hours in a day.
I'm just one human being, andso I do focus a lot more on the
things that I can actuallychange, which means a lot of
(53:59):
things I don't actually havetime to engage, and these,
frankly, wind up being a lot ofthe conversations I have with
people, and so that's where Ijust kind of want to come back
and I get it.
I know what's going on.
That being said, I don't thinkI actually agree with your
solution, to be quite frank, andso, anyway, I just want to
(54:22):
challenge everybody If you thinkyou can identify a problem or
something that you want to seeworked on, don't tweet about it,
don't go sign a petition.
Actually, do it.
Little preachy, but I don'tcare.
I'm going to close on this.
(54:43):
My wife is directing a musicalat our school right now and,
yeah, some parents are listening, so I might get in trouble, but
whatever, we're going to air itout right now.
A lot of people complain aboutvarious things, and what I have
noticed.
This isn't scientific, so justan anecdote.
The people who are complainingabout how the play is being run
(55:05):
are also this subset of peoplewho are not involved.
These are the people that Idon't see at pickup.
These are the people who Iliterally don't know their names
.
So, again, we still considertheir inputs, not like you just
throw it out, but I got to behonest.
My wife is a lot nicer aboutlistening to that shit than I am
.
I am the one telling herinterview.
(55:26):
Who the fuck is that?
I don't know that person.
I'm there every day.
So, anyway, I just want tochallenge our community to stay
active.
Stay involved.
Be the change that you want tosee.
Don't talk about it.
Be about it.
I am sick of it.
And if you have a tweet, stormnot going to read it, if you put
(55:47):
out a little blog post on it,I'm not going to see it.
Sorry, no, but again, I justwant to focus us back on.
If you want to change thesituation, do it.
Get involved in your community.
You're going to find tons ofpeople who are going to support
(56:08):
you in those changes you want tomake and if you're going online
and you're engaging it that way, it probably feels hopeless,
desperate and futile, andengaging online it is.
Take that energy out in thereal world, it will not be
wasted, I promise.
Anyway, that's it, guys.
That's all I got today.
Again, I want to thank you forspending your time with me.
(56:31):
Please make sure that you sharethe show that there's a lot of
people that are not having theirneeds met by the fitness
industry.
That's who I want to heartoday's show.
If you know anybody who wouldprefer not to with workout, send
this their way.
Let's continue to grow ourcommunity and, yes, please share
(56:58):
this with somebody that youthink does not enjoy working out
.
Let's see if we can give them adifferent why and maybe a
couple better reasons With thatguys.
Remember mind and muscle areinseparably intertwined.
There are no gains withoutbrains.
Keep lifting and learning.
(57:18):
I'll do the same.
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