January 20, 2025 • 40 mins
Episode Notes:
Ever stop & wonder how much paint contamination is actually costing your shop?
Would it surprise you if that dirt in your booth was costing you thousands?
Discover the hidden costs of paint contamination and how to avoid it!
Check out this Collision Vision Podcast, where Cole Strandberg interviewed me about my latest presentation, as we unpack the hidden financial impacts lurking in your paint department.
Get ready to revolutionize your paint booth efficiency and profitability with practical insights from our conversation. We stress the importance of standard operating procedures and maintaining a clean environment akin to a surgeon’s sterile setting.
Listen in and learn how adopting these preventive measures not only safeguards technician safety but also boosts productivity and reduces costly redos. Join us as we encourage shop owners and technicians alike to level-up their game, along with their profitability, to new heights.
Thinking about upgrading your paint department, or adding a paint booth? You’ll discover why prioritizing quality over cost is crucial for long-term success. Join us as we explore strategic considerations such as future growth planning and the benefits of collaborating with paint companies and experts. These insights are invaluable for making informed decisions that support your shop’s efficiency and throughput!
Looking for more information on this subject?
Check out my 3-part series “Keeping it Kleen” 📢
1️⃣ https://tinyurl.com/3kuh993h
2️⃣ https://tinyurl.com/mtje667m
3️⃣ https://tinyurl.com/2fs5bmcf
Be sure to check out Cole Strandberg’s Podcast:
Join our Mind Wrench mailing list! 👉 https://bit.ly/3DGNM9o
Need one-on-one Mindset or Personal Development coaching? – drop me a note @ Personal Coaching – Rick Selover
👉 CLICK HERE FOR 50% OFF YOUR FIRST MONTH OF COACHING!
(use PROMO code FREE50 in the message box!)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rick (00:00):
Anybody that knows me knows that my go-to is finding
information, finding things Ican share with others that may
possibly help them.
I did build a presentation.
I've had it out there a fewtimes.
It's going to be out there alot in the next year.
On the cost of contaminationBecause, coming from the
background that I've got, I'vedealt with thousands of painters
and booths over my career.
I've seen a lot of issues withdirt fish eyes contamination.
(00:24):
And after 40-some years we arestill battling.
I put a little somethingtogether that's going to explain
it, show you what I call theroot sources of contamination,
where it comes from, how toprevent it, and I dive really
deep into the costs ofcontamination because I don't
think most shops really realizehow much it does cost them.
(00:54):
Welcome to the MindWrenchpodcast with your host, rick
Sellover, where minoradjustments produce major
improvements in mindset,personal growth and success.
This is the place to be everyMonday, where we make small
improvements and take positiveactions in our business and
personal lives that will make amajor impact in our success,
next-level growth and quality oflife.
(01:18):
Hey, what's up everybody.
Welcome to the MindWrenchPodcast.
I'm your host, rick Silover.
Thanks so much for stopping in.
If you're a returning listenerand haven't done so already,
please take a minute and clickthe follow or subscribe button
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When you rate and review theshow, the algorithms for Apple,
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(01:38):
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can help them too.
I would really, really reallyappreciate your help, sharing
this word with your friends andfamily as well, and if you're a
brand new listener, welcome.
I hope you find something ofvalue here that helps you in
your personal or professionallife as well.
Please make sure to click thesubscribe or follow button so
(01:59):
you never miss another episode.
Recently, I had the honor andprivilege of being a return
guest on the Collision Visionpodcast with my good friend and
fellow podcast host, coleStrandberg.
Last I saw Cole was at SEMAthis past November.
As we caught up, I shared thatI was working on a presentation
that focused on my deep diveinto the causes and real costs
(02:20):
of paint re-dos due tocontamination and the critical
role preventive maintenanceplays in reducing those
significant costs, naturallywith Cole's family business
being rooted in equipmentdistribution.
This was extremely interestingfor him to explore and he asked
me to share on his podcast,which aired during the Christmas
break.
So without further ado, let'sjump into that interview.
Cole (02:43):
Rick Selliver, welcome back to the Collision Vision.
You're a regular at this point,Thanks.
Rick (02:48):
Cole, I appreciate it and yeah, I think we've been
together a couple times on videohere, so good to see you again.
Cole (02:56):
Likewise always a pleasure .
And now we get to talk aboutsomething today that I always
sort of itch to talk about,given my past life and my
background.
But you've made a pretty bigmove within the collision
industry and kind of the relatedecosystem here Now with Garmat,
and you've been giving apresentation about what I would
(03:19):
say is the cost of contamination.
Explain what you're talkingabout when you talk about that
is the cost of contamination.
Rick (03:26):
Explain what you're talking about when you talk
about that Sure thing.
Yeah, you're right.
I've made a pretty largetransformation in my work
history here.
So I've been in the businessover 40 some years.
I was a technician so I paintedin a lot of booths and a lot of
open floors and I worked indistribution selling paint
materials and managed thatbusiness for about 35 years.
(03:50):
So now I've made a transitionnow to the equipment side of
things.
So I'm national account managerfor Garmin and it's been really
eye-opening, it's been enjoyable, it's been fun.
I like what I'm doing and, yeah, I built a little presentation.
I get to share some information.
Anybody that knows me knowsthat's kind of my go-to is
(04:11):
finding information, findingthings I can share with others
that may possibly help them.
So anything I can do to furtherthe cause for this great
industry that I've made a livingin for a heck of a long time
I'm in.
I did build a presentation.
I've had it out there a fewtimes.
It's going to be out there alot in the next year.
(04:32):
On the cost of contaminationBecause, coming from the
background that I've got, I'vedealt with hundreds, thousands
of painters and booths over mycareer and seen a lot of issues
with dirt fish eyescontamination and after 40 some
years we are still battling,battling dirt contamination,
(04:53):
fish eyes.
So I put a little somethingtogether that's going to explain
it, show you the what I callthe root sources of
contamination, where it comesfrom, how to prevent it, and I
dive really deep into the costsof contamination because I don't
think most shops really realizehow much it does cost them.
Cole (05:11):
I don't want to dive fully into the full presentation and
steal any thunder, but I do wantto touch on it because I did
have the opportunity in ourpre-show call to get a little
bit of a sneak peek.
I think it's incrediblyvaluable and something that I
find interesting and this is avery niche comment but most of
(05:33):
the time paint guys say it's thebooth and booth guys say it's
the paint guy's fault.
So to get both hats in here andbe able to view this from as
fair a perspective as possible,I think it's fantastic.
Start off, though, again not toget too into the weeds here,
but what are some of the mainsources of contamination and,
importantly, whose fault is it?
Rick (05:53):
So I don't want to point fingers but I don't have an
issue speaking the truth.
So after I did a reallyextensive background study on
this to get all my factsstraight and get input from a
lot of areas and I talked tobooth manufacturers,
distributors, paint and materialdistributors, paint company
(06:13):
reps, instructors for thecollision industry, as well as
my own background and some techreps Tech reps are usually the
first responders in there sogathered all this data put
together.
But to be point blank, there isthree main root sources of dirt
and contamination it's eitherthe booth, it's the vehicle or
(06:35):
it's the painter.
So all three of those havemultiple issues that may be tied
back to them as the root source, back to them as the root
source.
But when you really filter itall down, you know things like
the vehicle.
You know it brings a presenceof dirt possibly and
contamination into the booth,but that can be mitigated by the
painter if it's done correctlybefore that thing even enters
(06:57):
the booth.
So after all the you knowscrubbing I did on this with the
data and the percentages ofwhere everything fell by the
time I scrubbed it through whatI call the influencer factor and
that means the painter is ahuge influencer on whether
things get taken care of beforeit gets to that point where
we're ready to pull the triggeror not.
(07:17):
It really boils down to thepainter and booth and it's
almost a 50-50 split.
But there's some great thingsto this that I discovered that a
painter can prevent a lot ofhis own problems.
The dirt doesn't come in thepaint, like I've heard from a
couple people before, paintcomes clean, your gun comes
(07:42):
clean brand new, your booth isclean, brand new and the
vehicles are clean brand new.
But sometimes, between wheneverything's brand new and you
actually get that vehicle in thebooth to pull the trigger,
you're bringing in some dirt asa painter, you're bringing in
some contamination, so is thevehicle, so is the booth, and
the lack of maintenance justcompiles on top of that and
(08:04):
makes it really difficult to geta clean job.
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(09:47):
for you.
I did find the causes, I foundthe cures and I found the costs
of all of this.
Cole (09:57):
You are a master of segues .
It makes sense that you are aprofessional right on the
podcast side of things.
I think a lot of our listenersare also going to listen to you
on the MindWrench podcast aswell.
But you mentioned cost and, forfrequent listeners here on the
Collision Vision, the questionof why the heck are we talking
(10:17):
about paint booth maintenanceother than its host's potential
bias toward the conversation?
Because I love it.
The answer is this is anindustry that we're always
fighting for margin.
We're fighting for ways to bemore efficient and I think
there's a lot of hidden costsassociated with paint booth
issues and paint issues.
(10:38):
Talk to me about again a highlevel.
No secret sauce here.
But what kind of costs are wetalking about?
Rick (10:46):
So to your point, dealing with shop owners that have had
questions for years of you know,why is my paint and material
bill so high?
Or why do these jobs alwayscome out looking like crap?
How can we spend all dayrubbing you know all these
questions come into the samearea of you know what you don't
know?
You don't know you don't knowright.
So if you, if you're running abusiness and your business
(11:09):
requires you to paint a vehicle,or as many vehicles a day as
possible, it's good to knowwhat's going to keep that wheel
from turning smoothly right andit boils down to all into all
those things.
So most shops don't understandthe costs.
Now, if they spend an extra 4500 on their paint bill one
month, I would get a phone call.
(11:29):
In fact I'd get more than aphone call.
I'd get some competitors inthere looking at my customer's
business going.
I think we could do thischeaper, right.
So they're sensitive.
Most shop owners are sensitiveto costs that they see on a
monthly statement and when itmoves up and down, obviously
they pay attention to that.
But when there's unknown costthe cost of redoing work they
(11:53):
don't have their finger on thatand they don't understand what
it is and they don't see whatthat cost really is.
But I'm telling you, based onmy results, every redo has got
four components to it.
So it's got a cost of paintmaterials lost, right?
Not what you didn't sell.
It's lost cost, right.
You have a cost of utilitiesthat you're going to use to
(12:17):
repaint that vehicle.
You've got a cost of lostproduction which nobody
calculates that out, but that'shuge.
That's probably the biggestpart of this is every time you
repaint an average RO, that'sanother RO you're not painting
in its place.
So you only get so many boothcycles a day.
So if you're chewing up a boothcycle, that's a cost.
(12:37):
That's about an $8,700 cost onan average RO of about $4,300,
right.
So that's and that's two.
Two redos a month is what I didmy calculations on.
I think most places probablyhave more than that.
There's some that are going tohave a few less, but I mean
$8,700 on two redos in a monthin lost production alone is huge
(12:58):
.
But you also have the cost ofand this is something nobody
will ever measure, right, but Idid is the cost of retention.
So what that painter loses whenhe redoes a job whether it's his
fault, the boo's fault.
Whatever.
He's got control over thisright, he really does.
Now, if his boss doesn't wantto replace filters but once a
(13:19):
year and they don't want to doany maintenance, yeah, that's
going to hurt, right?
Most painters don't realize howmuch they're losing every time
they have to redo a job.
Well, I've got those numbers tooright and I think they'd be
shocked if they really saw,potentially, what they're losing
every time they have to redoone of their own jobs, because
maybe they didn't throw a suiton, maybe they sanded a job
(13:40):
between coats, maybe they gotfive parts racks full of garbage
and stuff in their booth thatthey work around.
There's a million factors tothis and I go through all that
in my presentation.
But yeah, there's massive costin all this and, at the end of
the day, all that lost moneycould pay for preventative
maintenance for a year or longer.
(14:02):
It could pay for new spray guns, it could pay for new clean
stands.
It could pay for a lot ofthings.
So I think the sooner shops getan understanding of what's at
stake here, they may react alittle bit differently than they
have in the past.
Cole (14:18):
These dollar amounts are no joke and, of course, anybody
listening here is probablylistening along and saying, yeah
, it's the worst Hate when thathappens.
You mentioned some key termshere and I want to get into how
to avoid this downtime, how toavoid redos, and that's paint
booth maintenance andpreventative maintenance.
(14:39):
Talk to me a little bit aboutbooth maintenance.
What are some of the key thingsinvolved in keeping a booth
operational and operating atpeak performance, keeping it
that workhorse?
Rick (14:50):
You know, cole, and you know because you work for a
distributor you know it's notthat difficult.
Cole (14:54):
Yeah, but that wouldn't be any fun.
I gotta let you answer this.
It's not that difficult.
Rick (15:01):
It's really having someone reliable, dependable, that you
trust, that you have a goodrelationship with.
That's in that boothdistribution service that
someone's getting their hands onyour booth or looking at it
once a month, changing to somefloor filters.
Maybe they're going to look atthe control panel to make sure
burner's working correctly, makesure the fan's not too loaded
up, looking at it monthly,changing filters monthly, and
(15:23):
most shops that have a medium tohigh volume, we're going to get
those floor filters done twicea month, right, every two weeks.
Some slower shops maybe justonce a month, but you can't skip
those.
You can't put the crappiest,cheapest filters in the floor
that you can.
Because the cost, becausethat's going to cost you at a
different level.
Changing the floor filters,changing the ceiling filters.
(15:44):
There's filters up in the airmakeup units, there's bag
filters.
There's a lot of differentfilters that someone needs to
look at, evaluate, go okay, yes,it's time for these to get
changed.
Not to mention looking at themechanicals and going, okay,
how's the burner looking?
Is it working efficiently?
Uh, what is the fan?
What does the exhaust fans looklike?
Are they loaded up with?
Uh, the over spray.
(16:05):
They need to be cleaned, theyneed to be changed out.
You know all that stuff putswear and tear on your motors too
and your motor goes.
That's a big expense.
So preventative maintenancemost shops don't want to spend
the money because it looks likea cost right, it's like well,
it's working fine, everything'scoming out okay.
I don't really need to do thatright yet they're wrong.
(16:25):
They do need to do that.
They need to stay on it becauseif you have a consistent
preventative maintenance programyou're not going to have those
big costs of a motor going, of afan sparking and catching fire.
I mean, there's so much stuffthat can go wrong inside of a
booth.
It's crazy shop floor porterright, go in there and flip the
(16:50):
grates up and roll the floorfilters in upside down or
something like that, notcleaning it out correctly and
not really taking care of it.
It's maintenance and I'll throwthis out there.
I've got plenty of customersI've dealt with for years that
big dollar earners, big shops,make lots of money, nice houses,
boats and all that other stuff.
(17:10):
They'll go out and buy a BMW ora Cadillac or they'll buy a
high-end car and I willguarantee you they don't opt out
of the maintenance on those.
They don't go run down to thelocal guy in the corner that
does oil changes for $12.
No, they're taking theirs tothe you know, the BMW dealership
, the Mercedes dealership,whatever that maintenance
(17:36):
program is that's taking care oftheir $100,000 car.
They don't have an issue withthat because they see that value
to them.
Right?
You got a $150,000, $200,000booth that makes you money every
day.
Right, that if it's down,you're freaking out, you're
calling, you're mad, you'reyelling at people.
Things aren't happening, thingsaren't going out of your shop,
your cash register is broke.
That's a whole nother level ofstress, right?
But yet I've seen shops justtotally ignore maintenance
(17:57):
because it's a cost they don'treally need to do.
Cole (17:59):
So I can't emphasize that enough right, it's an investment
right.
These booths are money-makingmachines.
They are the second mostimportant piece of equipment in
your shop, behind only acompressor.
Everything's running throughthis booth before it runs out
that door and into that cashregister.
So to make sure that you'rekeeping that operational and
(18:22):
fully functioning well worth theinvestment, in my opinion.
I know you don't have achecklist or anything in front
of you, but give me an exampleof how folks should look at
preventative maintenancesequence.
What are they doing, just at ahigh level for us?
Rick (18:38):
Well, like I said, they touch everything on the booth,
at least quarterly and thenyearly, right?
So if you're on a monthlyprogram or even a quarterly
program, you're going to getfilters dropped off every month.
You'll have stuff.
Either the booth company,whoever you're using, is going
to change them once a month andmaybe leave you a set of filters
(19:00):
for the next change if you'rehigh volume enough to where you
got to do it twice a month, orif it's quarterly, they're going
to come out there once a monthand they're going to do an
install of filters.
They're going to leave you cutfilters that are ready for the
rest of the quarter.
But they'll look at yourmechanicals.
They'll look at all the beltsand the pulleys and all those
things that wear and that youknow at some point need to be
(19:23):
replaced.
They monitor that stuff andthey record that.
You know, like I know with thecar van distributors, they
record all those things.
So they have an active log ofwhat's going on with your booth
or booths and then they'll keepa sheet outside on the front of
your booth where you can seethat they are out.
They checked all these things,they changed these filters.
So you have a visual and theyhave a record of what they've
(19:46):
done to your booth.
But, quite simply, you do thatall year long.
It prevents big things fromgoing wrong.
And then, once a year, ourdistributors do what we call a
deep clean, an annual clean, andthat's where they pull
everything out.
They power wash the floor, thegrates, the walls, they clean
the lights out, they go throughall the mechanicals and they'll
(20:08):
do booth coat on the walls andyou get a full, clean,
feels-like-new booth, which,number one, helps towards
retention.
So if you've got a painter thatmakes good money where he's at
and kind of likes to shop, buthe's got to do all the
maintenance on his booth.
He may not think of that in thesame light if he gets an offer
(20:30):
from some guy down the streetthat'll pay him the same money
that has a nice newer booth thatgets maintained by a company,
uh, every month, because that'shis, that's his cash register
too, right.
So there's, there's, I can'tsay enough positive reasons to
have a preventive maintenanceprogram.
I really do, and I and I wastalking about this with my shops
back before I was working witha booth company.
(20:54):
OK just my perspective.
It was common sense.
You know I'm with you.
I love painters.
I was a painter before.
I know what they go through.
I know the stress.
I know the upset when you gotto redo something.
I didn't.
I didn't realize the cost.
Now looking back at the cost,oh God, I wasted a lot of money
back then.
Cole (21:14):
No, it's man.
You continue to tee me up in agreat way and I appreciate that.
All of that just I completelyecho.
We've talked about the problemsand the challenges and some of
the causes we talked about, withpreventative maintenance a part
of the solution.
What other solutions would youhave that shops can implement to
(21:37):
go ahead and reduce, reduce anddowntime caused by
contamination, fisheyes, etcetera.
Rick (21:44):
So like I said earlier, it's not all the booth's fault.
There was three main sources ofcontamination.
I kind of whittled out one ofthem because that's easily
mitigated.
It's not all the booth's fault.
There was three main sources ofcontamination.
I kind of whittled out one ofthem because that's easily
mitigated and that's just by,you know, cleaning that vehicle
before it even comes into yourshop for the start of the repair
process and then cleaning itagain before it goes into your
(22:07):
booth.
Right, you got mechanics andyou got body guys that may have
some grease and stuff on theirhands and they're touching this
whole thing.
So cleaning can prevent a lotof that stuff and that's going
to be done by the painter andthe painter's helper.
But if you eliminate thevehicle out of the process,
you've got the painter andyou've got the booth.
Those are the two main sources.
Now we just talked about thebooth and what you can do with
(22:29):
preventive maintenance.
But there's a lot the paintercan do and I would start with
just saying if you're a shopowner or manager or you're an
MSO shop, you know, facilitator,have a good SOP, like most,
like most high-end shops.
Have a good SOP for everyprocess throughout their shop.
Have a process for your paintdepartment, a pre-checklist to
(22:51):
go through before they pullsomething in and bag it and pull
the trigger.
So there should be certainthings a painter can do that's
going to help him help himselffrom losing money by eliminating
all the potential dirt thathe's going to bring to the party
.
That means blowing yourself offhaving a clean paint suit, on,
(23:11):
having good head protection likea sock or a full-faced fresh
air mask gloves.
Don't go in there with yourbare hands.
You've tacked it off and you'regetting your final preps done.
You should be doing that withgloves on Fully protect yourself
number one as a person tryingto avoid getting contamination
(23:32):
within you, but you're alsokeeping your contamination off
the car.
You know hair gels, sprays.
You know beard creams.
You know all these differentthings, hand lotions that most
people use throughout a day.
All that has a negative effecton contamination.
You can create fish eyes justwith what you put on your own
(23:52):
body that day.
Right, there's been tons ofstudies done where you know it
ended up fighting deodorant canmitigate its way right through
your clothes, through your suit,and still end up causing fish
eyes.
You know, make sure that vehicleis decontaminated.
Make sure your booth atmosphereis decontaminated.
You don't have issues withwhatever's laying in there.
(24:14):
There should be nothing in abooth but your tack rag and your
spray gun and the vehicle.
That's it, or parts rack, right.
So those are just a couple ofkey things.
I've got a complete list ofpotential issues that cause dirt
and contamination, but thepaint are doing the right thing,
and I've seen plenty of themthat do the right thing and I've
(24:36):
seen incredible results.
From someone that takes thetime to prepare themselves,
prepare the vehicle, boost right, you get an almost flawless job
.
There's always going to be alittle something, but a quick
nub is nothing like having toredo because you got nasty,
gnarly chunks of crap blown outof your gun into the base coat,
clear coat.
(24:56):
Now you got to sand it down,redo it Right.
Cole (24:59):
Right on Nope, a lot to think about and you mentioned
something that I think you can'tput a hard cost on.
But that employee, thattechnician efficiency and morale
piece, the technician safetypiece cannot be understated and
I've said this before on theshow, that's, that's the most
(25:20):
basic requirement to get someoneto work for you is safety and
the ability to do your job.
Help them help themselves, helpthem help you and make sure
they can do that help themselves, help them, help you and make
sure they can do that.
Rick (25:36):
Yeah, this is the 1970s, where you can spray your lacquer
on the floor with a towelwrapped around your face and
you're protected, you're good,the car's fine.
I mean, those days are longgone, but I lived through those
days, so I'm talking fromexperience.
The cleaner you can getyourself, the cleaner you can
get the car.
I only want to paint one timeand I don't even want to rub.
I hate rubbing.
I hated rubbing when I was akid, hated it throughout my
career.
I still hate it now.
(25:57):
Yet I see it almost every shopI go to.
They got a detail guy andthat's all he does all day long
is wet sand and rub these cars.
You shouldn't have to do that.
It's not.
It's not part of the.
It shouldn't be part of theprocess.
Cole (26:09):
It really should.
So, man, we probably could havean entire episode about just
ridiculous things you've seen ina booth and that I've at least
heard of seeing in a booth.
I know some of the stories mydad had from selling paint
booths in the eighties to seehow you know, hey, the booths,
the booths messing up my paint.
Yeah, buddy, you're.
You're smoking a cigarette inthe booth while you're painting,
(26:31):
like that.
Rick (26:32):
Come on now, Uh so, um, yeah, I can, I can have a
complete series, uh, and itwould be more of a comedy than
anything else.
Uh, you know the crap I've seenhappen in my career, uh, in the
body shop industry.
But I will say this it's, it'scleaned up a ton, it's gotten so
much better.
And there are shops thatoperate at such a high level,
(26:56):
like a surgeon would right, andI remember seeing years ago
slides of and I think this waswith 5S programs that a lot of
pain companies had and show apicture of a just nasty shop
with stuff all over, and thenshow a picture of a surgeon in a
medical, you know, roompreparing to do surgery.
And the point was is you knowwhich way do you want to be
(27:16):
operating?
You know, in filth and disarrayor in a nice, clean, organized,
sterile environment?
If you're painting a vehicle, ifyou're painting a $75,000 car,
you know, one of my customerswas a Ferrari dealer, you know,
and their jobs had to be really,really nice because they don't
want to be wet, sand and rub it.
These things they really don't.
These are, you know, multihundred thousand dollar cars.
(27:38):
So, yeah, the cleaner, thenicer you can get that
environment, the betterperformance is going to be all
the way around and you're notlosing all that money that I
alluded to earlier.
Like I said, if I did the wholepresentation, it would take
about 45 minutes or an hour andyou'd have probably a lot of
shop owners lighting your phoneup.
So we're not going to do thatright now.
Cole (27:59):
Fair enough, I'll be in full contact throughout the
course of this year.
Yeah and keep us updated there.
I'd love to share your speakingschedule for people who this
has really generated someinterest in checking that out
can do that.
I want to zoom out a little bit, or at least pivot and talk
about paint booths in general.
We've talked about kind of thetopic of the day but now we can
(28:22):
zoom out a little bit, talkabout when we mentioned paint
booths as a revenue generator, amoneymaker, folks might be
saying, hey, I need to replacemine, I need a new one.
We are expanding.
What should body shop owners bethinking about when they're
thinking about buying a newpaint booth and choosing the
(28:43):
right piece of equipment?
Rick (28:45):
Great question, cole.
I could probably come up with acouple ideas on that.
So I'd say, first and foremost,I'm going to say this and
people are going to go oh God,that guy sells booze.
Cheaper is never better.
Do not make your decisionsbased on cost alone, because
that is very short sighted.
So quality does cost more thansomething cheap, right, but
(29:10):
think through what you want todo with your shop.
So if you're an existing shopand you're producing, you know
$100,000 in labor a month, right?
Do you want to increase that orare you just going to stay at
that level?
You know, have your plan as faras OK.
What does my growth look likeNow?
To do that growth, I need to doX amount of cars a day at some
(29:32):
point.
Make sure you're going to buysomething that's got the
capacity to do that much work.
Right?
If you bought an oldcross-draft booth or something
smaller or too small for whatyou're doing, you're going to
limit yourself on how muchproduction you can get.
If the bake cycles are reallyslow because it doesn't get up
to heat very fast, or if itdoesn't really have the capacity
(29:56):
to bake fully at thetemperature you should bake,
then that's not going to be awise choice.
Look at your potential mix ofbusiness too.
So if you're just doing regularvehicles right now but you see
yourself getting into doing moreof these sprinter vans, well
then a normal size booth, anormal height booth, is not
going to work.
You're going to need a high toptype of booth, which I've seen
(30:17):
a lot of those go in.
So you know, take a good lookat what your shop looks like
right now, what you want to looklike in the future.
Prepare for growth, pay aheadfor the growth now, because once
you put a booth in, it's in.
It's a lot of work to pull oneout and put a different one in.
Oh, got it.
I should have gone two feethigher.
I should have gone three feetlonger.
Four feet longer you can ordera booth, at least with Garmin I
(30:40):
know you can go in one footincrements, both lengthwise and
heightwise, right.
So make sure that you'regetting the right size booth
that you want For yourproduction and your size shop.
Maybe a double prep deck mightmake more sense than two booths.
Maybe you need one booth, butyou need double prep deck
because you can do parts, youcan do cut-ins, you could do
small jobs, whatever.
(31:01):
You've tripled your ability tospray rather than just have one
booth or increase it by 50 centif you're just going to have two
booths.
So look at your capacity, lookat your production load.
How much do you want to be ableto do?
Then look at your shop size.
I mean, do you have the room toput extra booths in?
I mean, will you have to dosome construction?
(31:22):
And then, lastly, probably lookat where you're going to put
that booth at.
The last thing you want to dois shove the booth up in a
corner and it's a drive-in,back-out booth.
That means, oh, but I get somuch more production space for
my bodyguards.
Yeah, that's great.
I hope they don't mind movingall those damn cars out.
Every time the booth's got to,you know, we got to take one out
(31:43):
of the booth to get another onein.
I've seen that a million timesand I think God don't let the
architect and if there'sarchitects and designers out
there, I don't mean to offendyou, but do not let the
dealership architect tell you,mr Body Shop Manager, where the
best place is for your booth asyou're setting up a new shop.
I've seen this mistake a lot oftimes too.
Get your paint company involved.
(32:05):
Get your distributor involved.
Get your you know your boothdistributor and your paint
material distributor.
Get those people in a room withyou and think through this,
plan it out, make a gooddecision up front and you won't
regret it.
Right, and I think that there'sa lot more to it, but those are
probably the top things I canreally think about is you know
current state, future growth,what your shop looks like and
(32:29):
buy the best booth you can buyfor the money that you can.
Right, if you're ordering oneout of the back of a magazine,
it's probably not going to lastright Value over price right you
want value Yep.
And lastly and like I said, it'snot really a plug for Gar-Mat,
you can take it as a plug, butbuy something that's built in
(32:52):
the United States and I'm notknocking anybody's booth systems
.
But if you're buying somethingthat's built overseas, there is
going to be a problem.
If you have a down boothsituation and you're waiting in
a park, it's not like they canrun to Grainger and get a
replacement part which andyou're waiting in a part, it's
not like they can run toGrainger and get a replacement
part which.
With most US booths, I thinkmost of the parts you can get
something that'll work at aGrainger location.
But if you've got an overseasbooth, wherever it comes from,
(33:15):
sometimes you're going to haveto wait.
It could be weeks, it could bea month by the time you get a
needed part and I will tell youif your booth is down.
I didn't throw this number outthere, but I'll throw the number
out there now.
If your booth is down, you're afour cycle a day producer,
right?
So you're painting two cyclesin the morning, two in the
(33:36):
afternoon.
That's an average good toaverage shop, right?
Four cycles a day.
If you lose that, the booth isdown, you can't produce, you're
losing $17,400 in production aday.
If you lose that, the booth isdown.
You can't produce, you'relosing seventeen thousand four
hundred dollars in production aday.
So that thing is going to costyou a lot of money, while
sitting there not producing.
Now you can say it's not reallycost me anything.
(33:56):
It is if you normally producefour cycles a day and now you're
doing zero cycles a day.
Right, it's just.
It's just simple math.
So Opportunity.
Cole (34:06):
Cost is real, absolutely.
It impacts your business forsure, and I'd echo a lot of that
sentiment from a business valueperspective.
Potential buyers, for example,value good equipment and
equipment that's well-maintainedand in good shape.
So it's good for the now, it'sgood for maximizing your money,
(34:27):
for keeping your technicianshappy, and it's good for the
future, whenever that time comes.
So love all of that.
I guess I'd end with one thingthe paint booth industry is not
one that's really known for aton of innovation.
Necessarily over the last fewyears you have some really
quality manufacturers thatcreate workhorses.
(34:48):
Is there any innovation thatyou're excited to see in the
industry or within Garmat thatyou'd like to?
Rick (34:53):
share To your point.
I mean, it's a box that movesair and provides heat.
There's only so much you can dowith it, right.
But I will say the boosts overthe last few years.
They're much nicer.
I think they're more efficientthan they ever were as far as
energy usage and heat.
(35:13):
I think the lighting systemshave improved drastically over
the years too.
I know with Garbats.
I really like the way theirlighting system is set up
horizontally as opposed tovertical.
It really reduces shadows.
So that's kind of a cool thingin there.
And they've got a new piece ofsoftware, a new piece of
hardware that they're testmarketing right now in probably
(35:36):
50 shops or so to monitor what'sgoing on with your booth from
both a preventative angle and,from you know, being able to
remotely diagnose something thatmight be going on with your
booth before it becomes aproblem.
So I won't say a whole lotabout it, but we did have it at
(35:58):
SEMA.
It is very, very advanced.
It's very cool.
It's nothing like anybody elsehas out there.
But there is a, you know, aconnectivity trend that's been
going on with Boost in the lastcouple of years, and Garmad is
part of that.
But we've kind of looked ateverybody's and what they had
and kind of developed somethingthat's a little bit more out of
the box than that and I thinkonce they release this out into
(36:19):
the public it's going to bepretty cool.
It really is.
Cole (36:23):
Love it.
Well, I guess I have to takethat back about the lack of
innovation.
I apologize.
Sounds exciting, no, all goodman.
Before we wrap up and saygoodbye, I'd be remiss if I
didn't tee it up for you toremind us about the MindWrench
podcast.
And where can we find it?
Where can?
Rick (36:38):
we listen to it.
What is it?
Cole (36:39):
all about.
Rick (36:40):
The old MindWrench.
Yeah, so I'm still doing theMindWrench.
It's not as often as I was.
I was doing a weekly show andnow it's a bi-weekly show but
I've got lots of stuff that I'mdoing and still want to keep
that going because I reallyenjoy providing anything I can
do of value to share with shopsand technicians.
I was just talking with JayGonen earlier and we're going to
(37:04):
do something together prettysoon here as well, because he's
in.
He's in the same mindset.
But yeah, Mind wrench podcast.
I think I'm almost up to about190 episodes right now.
You can find it everywhere.
It's an.
You know, it's Apple, Spotify,iHeart, Amazon music.
It's.
It's on almost every platformout there.
You just got to look for it.
(37:25):
If you can't find it, hit me upand I'll get you a link to it.
But it's a lot of fun, Cole, asyou know, because you've been
doing it for a while now andthat's how we met was through
the podcast.
It's enjoyable.
You get to meet some greatpeople and you get to provide
some value.
For me, for an older guy, I getto give back a little bit more
(37:46):
and I really enjoy it.
So I'll keep doing it till theypull me off the air.
I love it, man.
Cole (37:53):
It's.
Love the show, reallyappreciate you and the
friendship we've developed andappreciate the insights you've
offered here today.
I think it's really good stuff.
Where can people get in touchwith you now from a Garmat
capacity?
Rick (38:14):
Super easy.
So ricks at garmatcom goesright to my email and, like I
said, I'm national accountmanager so I get involved in a
lot of stuff.
It's great to be able to usesome of my industry knowledge
and background to help ourcompany in the direction they're
going and things they need tolook at.
It's been really, reallyenjoyable.
I can't say enough good thingsabout the company, how they
(38:36):
treat their employees, they knowabout retention and just it's
been a fun place to work.
Cole, I haven't had more fun ata SEMA since I did last than
this year.
So there we go.
Cole (38:45):
No, it's a company that I've worked around for many,
many years with the familybusiness, so a lot of good
friends there and excited foryou and what you got going on,
man.
But hey, thank you so much forjoining us once again on the
collision vision and lookforward to staying in touch.
Rick (39:00):
Absolutely.
We'll keep doing this till theytell us they can't take anymore
.
Let's do it, let's do it.
Thank you for having me on.
I appreciate it.
I really do.
Well, I hope you enjoyed whatwe shared on the show and if
you're a shop owner, manager orpaint tech, hopefully it opened
your eyes a bit on the financialimpacts that can be avoided
with a little betterhousekeeping, a more disciplined
approach to being properlyprepared before your next
(39:22):
refinished job, and how crucialit is to protect and maintain
that cash register of yourbusiness.
If you want more information onthe subject, check out my three
part series Keeping it Clean.
I'll leave a link to thoseepisodes in the show notes,
along with a link to theCollision Vision podcast that
Cole had me on as well.
Thanks again for tuning in.
I really appreciate yoursupport and I hope you have a
(39:43):
great week.
I can always be reached atwwwrickselovercom, where you can
find all my social media linkspodcast episodes, blog posts and
much more.
I'm out.
Anybody that knows me knows that my go-to is finding
information, finding things Ican share with others that may
possibly help them.
I did build a presentation.
I've had it out there a fewtimes.
It's going to be out there alot in the next year.
On the cost of contaminationBecause, coming from the
background that I've got, I'vedealt with thousands of painters
and booths over my career.
I've seen a lot of issues withdirt fish eyes contamination.
(00:24):
And after 40-some years we arestill battling.
I put a little somethingtogether that's going to explain
it, show you what I call theroot sources of contamination,
where it comes from, how toprevent it, and I dive really
deep into the costs ofcontamination because I don't
think most shops really realizehow much it does cost them.
(00:54):
Welcome to the MindWrenchpodcast with your host, rick
Sellover, where minoradjustments produce major
improvements in mindset,personal growth and success.
This is the place to be everyMonday, where we make small
improvements and take positiveactions in our business and
personal lives that will make amajor impact in our success,
next-level growth and quality oflife.
(01:18):
Hey, what's up everybody.
Welcome to the MindWrenchPodcast.
I'm your host, rick Silover.
Thanks so much for stopping in.
If you're a returning listenerand haven't done so already,
please take a minute and clickthe follow or subscribe button
and then rate and review theshow.
When you rate and review theshow, the algorithms for Apple,
spotify, google Podcasts,iheartradio, amazon Music and
(01:38):
all the other platforms will seethat it's valuable and show it
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can help them too.
I would really, really reallyappreciate your help, sharing
this word with your friends andfamily as well, and if you're a
brand new listener, welcome.
I hope you find something ofvalue here that helps you in
your personal or professionallife as well.
Please make sure to click thesubscribe or follow button so
(01:59):
you never miss another episode.
Recently, I had the honor andprivilege of being a return
guest on the Collision Visionpodcast with my good friend and
fellow podcast host, coleStrandberg.
Last I saw Cole was at SEMAthis past November.
As we caught up, I shared thatI was working on a presentation
that focused on my deep diveinto the causes and real costs
(02:20):
of paint re-dos due tocontamination and the critical
role preventive maintenanceplays in reducing those
significant costs, naturallywith Cole's family business
being rooted in equipmentdistribution.
This was extremely interestingfor him to explore and he asked
me to share on his podcast,which aired during the Christmas
break.
So without further ado, let'sjump into that interview.
Cole (02:43):
Rick Selliver, welcome back to the Collision Vision.
You're a regular at this point,Thanks.
Rick (02:48):
Cole, I appreciate it and yeah, I think we've been
together a couple times on videohere, so good to see you again.
Cole (02:56):
Likewise always a pleasure .
And now we get to talk aboutsomething today that I always
sort of itch to talk about,given my past life and my
background.
But you've made a pretty bigmove within the collision
industry and kind of the relatedecosystem here Now with Garmat,
and you've been giving apresentation about what I would
(03:19):
say is the cost of contamination.
Explain what you're talkingabout when you talk about that
is the cost of contamination.
Rick (03:26):
Explain what you're talking about when you talk
about that Sure thing.
Yeah, you're right.
I've made a pretty largetransformation in my work
history here.
So I've been in the businessover 40 some years.
I was a technician so I paintedin a lot of booths and a lot of
open floors and I worked indistribution selling paint
materials and managed thatbusiness for about 35 years.
(03:50):
So now I've made a transitionnow to the equipment side of
things.
So I'm national account managerfor Garmin and it's been really
eye-opening, it's been enjoyable, it's been fun.
I like what I'm doing and, yeah, I built a little presentation.
I get to share some information.
Anybody that knows me knowsthat's kind of my go-to is
(04:11):
finding information, findingthings I can share with others
that may possibly help them.
So anything I can do to furtherthe cause for this great
industry that I've made a livingin for a heck of a long time
I'm in.
I did build a presentation.
I've had it out there a fewtimes.
It's going to be out there alot in the next year.
(04:32):
On the cost of contaminationBecause, coming from the
background that I've got, I'vedealt with hundreds, thousands
of painters and booths over mycareer and seen a lot of issues
with dirt fish eyescontamination and after 40 some
years we are still battling,battling dirt contamination,
(04:53):
fish eyes.
So I put a little somethingtogether that's going to explain
it, show you the what I callthe root sources of
contamination, where it comesfrom, how to prevent it, and I
dive really deep into the costsof contamination because I don't
think most shops really realizehow much it does cost them.
Cole (05:11):
I don't want to dive fully into the full presentation and
steal any thunder, but I do wantto touch on it because I did
have the opportunity in ourpre-show call to get a little
bit of a sneak peek.
I think it's incrediblyvaluable and something that I
find interesting and this is avery niche comment but most of
(05:33):
the time paint guys say it's thebooth and booth guys say it's
the paint guy's fault.
So to get both hats in here andbe able to view this from as
fair a perspective as possible,I think it's fantastic.
Start off, though, again not toget too into the weeds here,
but what are some of the mainsources of contamination and,
importantly, whose fault is it?
Rick (05:53):
So I don't want to point fingers but I don't have an
issue speaking the truth.
So after I did a reallyextensive background study on
this to get all my factsstraight and get input from a
lot of areas and I talked tobooth manufacturers,
distributors, paint and materialdistributors, paint company
(06:13):
reps, instructors for thecollision industry, as well as
my own background and some techreps Tech reps are usually the
first responders in there sogathered all this data put
together.
But to be point blank, there isthree main root sources of dirt
and contamination it's eitherthe booth, it's the vehicle or
(06:35):
it's the painter.
So all three of those havemultiple issues that may be tied
back to them as the root source, back to them as the root
source.
But when you really filter itall down, you know things like
the vehicle.
You know it brings a presenceof dirt possibly and
contamination into the booth,but that can be mitigated by the
painter if it's done correctlybefore that thing even enters
(06:57):
the booth.
So after all the you knowscrubbing I did on this with the
data and the percentages ofwhere everything fell by the
time I scrubbed it through whatI call the influencer factor and
that means the painter is ahuge influencer on whether
things get taken care of beforeit gets to that point where
we're ready to pull the triggeror not.
(07:17):
It really boils down to thepainter and booth and it's
almost a 50-50 split.
But there's some great thingsto this that I discovered that a
painter can prevent a lot ofhis own problems.
The dirt doesn't come in thepaint, like I've heard from a
couple people before, paintcomes clean, your gun comes
(07:42):
clean brand new, your booth isclean, brand new and the
vehicles are clean brand new.
But sometimes, between wheneverything's brand new and you
actually get that vehicle in thebooth to pull the trigger,
you're bringing in some dirt asa painter, you're bringing in
some contamination, so is thevehicle, so is the booth, and
the lack of maintenance justcompiles on top of that and
(08:04):
makes it really difficult to geta clean job.
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for you.
I did find the causes, I foundthe cures and I found the costs
of all of this.
Cole (09:57):
You are a master of segues .
It makes sense that you are aprofessional right on the
podcast side of things.
I think a lot of our listenersare also going to listen to you
on the MindWrench podcast aswell.
But you mentioned cost and, forfrequent listeners here on the
Collision Vision, the questionof why the heck are we talking
(10:17):
about paint booth maintenanceother than its host's potential
bias toward the conversation?
Because I love it.
The answer is this is anindustry that we're always
fighting for margin.
We're fighting for ways to bemore efficient and I think
there's a lot of hidden costsassociated with paint booth
issues and paint issues.
(10:38):
Talk to me about again a highlevel.
No secret sauce here.
But what kind of costs are wetalking about?
Rick (10:46):
So to your point, dealing with shop owners that have had
questions for years of you know,why is my paint and material
bill so high?
Or why do these jobs alwayscome out looking like crap?
How can we spend all dayrubbing you know all these
questions come into the samearea of you know what you don't
know?
You don't know you don't knowright.
So if you, if you're running abusiness and your business
(11:09):
requires you to paint a vehicle,or as many vehicles a day as
possible, it's good to knowwhat's going to keep that wheel
from turning smoothly right andit boils down to all into all
those things.
So most shops don't understandthe costs.
Now, if they spend an extra 4500 on their paint bill one
month, I would get a phone call.
(11:29):
In fact I'd get more than aphone call.
I'd get some competitors inthere looking at my customer's
business going.
I think we could do thischeaper, right.
So they're sensitive.
Most shop owners are sensitiveto costs that they see on a
monthly statement and when itmoves up and down, obviously
they pay attention to that.
But when there's unknown costthe cost of redoing work they
(11:53):
don't have their finger on thatand they don't understand what
it is and they don't see whatthat cost really is.
But I'm telling you, based onmy results, every redo has got
four components to it.
So it's got a cost of paintmaterials lost, right?
Not what you didn't sell.
It's lost cost, right.
You have a cost of utilitiesthat you're going to use to
(12:17):
repaint that vehicle.
You've got a cost of lostproduction which nobody
calculates that out, but that'shuge.
That's probably the biggestpart of this is every time you
repaint an average RO, that'sanother RO you're not painting
in its place.
So you only get so many boothcycles a day.
So if you're chewing up a boothcycle, that's a cost.
(12:37):
That's about an $8,700 cost onan average RO of about $4,300,
right.
So that's and that's two.
Two redos a month is what I didmy calculations on.
I think most places probablyhave more than that.
There's some that are going tohave a few less, but I mean
$8,700 on two redos in a monthin lost production alone is huge
(12:58):
.
But you also have the cost ofand this is something nobody
will ever measure, right, but Idid is the cost of retention.
So what that painter loses whenhe redoes a job whether it's his
fault, the boo's fault.
Whatever.
He's got control over thisright, he really does.
Now, if his boss doesn't wantto replace filters but once a
(13:19):
year and they don't want to doany maintenance, yeah, that's
going to hurt, right?
Most painters don't realize howmuch they're losing every time
they have to redo a job.
Well, I've got those numbers tooright and I think they'd be
shocked if they really saw,potentially, what they're losing
every time they have to redoone of their own jobs, because
maybe they didn't throw a suiton, maybe they sanded a job
(13:40):
between coats, maybe they gotfive parts racks full of garbage
and stuff in their booth thatthey work around.
There's a million factors tothis and I go through all that
in my presentation.
But yeah, there's massive costin all this and, at the end of
the day, all that lost moneycould pay for preventative
maintenance for a year or longer.
(14:02):
It could pay for new spray guns, it could pay for new clean
stands.
It could pay for a lot ofthings.
So I think the sooner shops getan understanding of what's at
stake here, they may react alittle bit differently than they
have in the past.
Cole (14:18):
These dollar amounts are no joke and, of course, anybody
listening here is probablylistening along and saying, yeah
, it's the worst Hate when thathappens.
You mentioned some key termshere and I want to get into how
to avoid this downtime, how toavoid redos, and that's paint
booth maintenance andpreventative maintenance.
(14:39):
Talk to me a little bit aboutbooth maintenance.
What are some of the key thingsinvolved in keeping a booth
operational and operating atpeak performance, keeping it
that workhorse?
Rick (14:50):
You know, cole, and you know because you work for a
distributor you know it's notthat difficult.
Cole (14:54):
Yeah, but that wouldn't be any fun.
I gotta let you answer this.
It's not that difficult.
Rick (15:01):
It's really having someone reliable, dependable, that you
trust, that you have a goodrelationship with.
That's in that boothdistribution service that
someone's getting their hands onyour booth or looking at it
once a month, changing to somefloor filters.
Maybe they're going to look atthe control panel to make sure
burner's working correctly, makesure the fan's not too loaded
up, looking at it monthly,changing filters monthly, and
(15:23):
most shops that have a medium tohigh volume, we're going to get
those floor filters done twicea month, right, every two weeks.
Some slower shops maybe justonce a month, but you can't skip
those.
You can't put the crappiest,cheapest filters in the floor
that you can.
Because the cost, becausethat's going to cost you at a
different level.
Changing the floor filters,changing the ceiling filters.
(15:44):
There's filters up in the airmakeup units, there's bag
filters.
There's a lot of differentfilters that someone needs to
look at, evaluate, go okay, yes,it's time for these to get
changed.
Not to mention looking at themechanicals and going, okay,
how's the burner looking?
Is it working efficiently?
Uh, what is the fan?
What does the exhaust fans looklike?
Are they loaded up with?
Uh, the over spray.
(16:05):
They need to be cleaned, theyneed to be changed out.
You know all that stuff putswear and tear on your motors too
and your motor goes.
That's a big expense.
So preventative maintenancemost shops don't want to spend
the money because it looks likea cost right, it's like well,
it's working fine, everything'scoming out okay.
I don't really need to do thatright yet they're wrong.
(16:25):
They do need to do that.
They need to stay on it becauseif you have a consistent
preventative maintenance programyou're not going to have those
big costs of a motor going, of afan sparking and catching fire.
I mean, there's so much stuffthat can go wrong inside of a
booth.
It's crazy shop floor porterright, go in there and flip the
(16:50):
grates up and roll the floorfilters in upside down or
something like that, notcleaning it out correctly and
not really taking care of it.
It's maintenance and I'll throwthis out there.
I've got plenty of customersI've dealt with for years that
big dollar earners, big shops,make lots of money, nice houses,
boats and all that other stuff.
(17:10):
They'll go out and buy a BMW ora Cadillac or they'll buy a
high-end car and I willguarantee you they don't opt out
of the maintenance on those.
They don't go run down to thelocal guy in the corner that
does oil changes for $12.
No, they're taking theirs tothe you know, the BMW dealership
, the Mercedes dealership,whatever that maintenance
(17:36):
program is that's taking care oftheir $100,000 car.
They don't have an issue withthat because they see that value
to them.
Right?
You got a $150,000, $200,000booth that makes you money every
day.
Right, that if it's down,you're freaking out, you're
calling, you're mad, you'reyelling at people.
Things aren't happening, thingsaren't going out of your shop,
your cash register is broke.
That's a whole nother level ofstress, right?
But yet I've seen shops justtotally ignore maintenance
(17:57):
because it's a cost they don'treally need to do.
Cole (17:59):
So I can't emphasize that enough right, it's an investment
right.
These booths are money-makingmachines.
They are the second mostimportant piece of equipment in
your shop, behind only acompressor.
Everything's running throughthis booth before it runs out
that door and into that cashregister.
So to make sure that you'rekeeping that operational and
(18:22):
fully functioning well worth theinvestment, in my opinion.
I know you don't have achecklist or anything in front
of you, but give me an exampleof how folks should look at
preventative maintenancesequence.
What are they doing, just at ahigh level for us?
Rick (18:38):
Well, like I said, they touch everything on the booth,
at least quarterly and thenyearly, right?
So if you're on a monthlyprogram or even a quarterly
program, you're going to getfilters dropped off every month.
You'll have stuff.
Either the booth company,whoever you're using, is going
to change them once a month andmaybe leave you a set of filters
(19:00):
for the next change if you'rehigh volume enough to where you
got to do it twice a month, orif it's quarterly, they're going
to come out there once a monthand they're going to do an
install of filters.
They're going to leave you cutfilters that are ready for the
rest of the quarter.
But they'll look at yourmechanicals.
They'll look at all the beltsand the pulleys and all those
things that wear and that youknow at some point need to be
(19:23):
replaced.
They monitor that stuff andthey record that.
You know, like I know with thecar van distributors, they
record all those things.
So they have an active log ofwhat's going on with your booth
or booths and then they'll keepa sheet outside on the front of
your booth where you can seethat they are out.
They checked all these things,they changed these filters.
So you have a visual and theyhave a record of what they've
(19:46):
done to your booth.
But, quite simply, you do thatall year long.
It prevents big things fromgoing wrong.
And then, once a year, ourdistributors do what we call a
deep clean, an annual clean, andthat's where they pull
everything out.
They power wash the floor, thegrates, the walls, they clean
the lights out, they go throughall the mechanicals and they'll
(20:08):
do booth coat on the walls andyou get a full, clean,
feels-like-new booth, which,number one, helps towards
retention.
So if you've got a painter thatmakes good money where he's at
and kind of likes to shop, buthe's got to do all the
maintenance on his booth.
He may not think of that in thesame light if he gets an offer
(20:30):
from some guy down the streetthat'll pay him the same money
that has a nice newer booth thatgets maintained by a company,
uh, every month, because that'shis, that's his cash register
too, right.
So there's, there's, I can'tsay enough positive reasons to
have a preventive maintenanceprogram.
I really do, and I and I wastalking about this with my shops
back before I was working witha booth company.
(20:54):
OK just my perspective.
It was common sense.
You know I'm with you.
I love painters.
I was a painter before.
I know what they go through.
I know the stress.
I know the upset when you gotto redo something.
I didn't.
I didn't realize the cost.
Now looking back at the cost,oh God, I wasted a lot of money
back then.
Cole (21:14):
No, it's man.
You continue to tee me up in agreat way and I appreciate that.
All of that just I completelyecho.
We've talked about the problemsand the challenges and some of
the causes we talked about, withpreventative maintenance a part
of the solution.
What other solutions would youhave that shops can implement to
(21:37):
go ahead and reduce, reduce anddowntime caused by
contamination, fisheyes, etcetera.
Rick (21:44):
So like I said earlier, it's not all the booth's fault.
There was three main sources ofcontamination.
I kind of whittled out one ofthem because that's easily
mitigated.
It's not all the booth's fault.
There was three main sources ofcontamination.
I kind of whittled out one ofthem because that's easily
mitigated and that's just by,you know, cleaning that vehicle
before it even comes into yourshop for the start of the repair
process and then cleaning itagain before it goes into your
(22:07):
booth.
Right, you got mechanics andyou got body guys that may have
some grease and stuff on theirhands and they're touching this
whole thing.
So cleaning can prevent a lotof that stuff and that's going
to be done by the painter andthe painter's helper.
But if you eliminate thevehicle out of the process,
you've got the painter andyou've got the booth.
Those are the two main sources.
Now we just talked about thebooth and what you can do with
(22:29):
preventive maintenance.
But there's a lot the paintercan do and I would start with
just saying if you're a shopowner or manager or you're an
MSO shop, you know, facilitator,have a good SOP, like most,
like most high-end shops.
Have a good SOP for everyprocess throughout their shop.
Have a process for your paintdepartment, a pre-checklist to
(22:51):
go through before they pullsomething in and bag it and pull
the trigger.
So there should be certainthings a painter can do that's
going to help him help himselffrom losing money by eliminating
all the potential dirt thathe's going to bring to the party
.
That means blowing yourself offhaving a clean paint suit, on,
(23:11):
having good head protection likea sock or a full-faced fresh
air mask gloves.
Don't go in there with yourbare hands.
You've tacked it off and you'regetting your final preps done.
You should be doing that withgloves on Fully protect yourself
number one as a person tryingto avoid getting contamination
(23:32):
within you, but you're alsokeeping your contamination off
the car.
You know hair gels, sprays.
You know beard creams.
You know all these differentthings, hand lotions that most
people use throughout a day.
All that has a negative effecton contamination.
You can create fish eyes justwith what you put on your own
(23:52):
body that day.
Right, there's been tons ofstudies done where you know it
ended up fighting deodorant canmitigate its way right through
your clothes, through your suit,and still end up causing fish
eyes.
You know, make sure that vehicleis decontaminated.
Make sure your booth atmosphereis decontaminated.
You don't have issues withwhatever's laying in there.
(24:14):
There should be nothing in abooth but your tack rag and your
spray gun and the vehicle.
That's it, or parts rack, right.
So those are just a couple ofkey things.
I've got a complete list ofpotential issues that cause dirt
and contamination, but thepaint are doing the right thing,
and I've seen plenty of themthat do the right thing and I've
(24:36):
seen incredible results.
From someone that takes thetime to prepare themselves,
prepare the vehicle, boost right, you get an almost flawless job
.
There's always going to be alittle something, but a quick
nub is nothing like having toredo because you got nasty,
gnarly chunks of crap blown outof your gun into the base coat,
clear coat.
(24:56):
Now you got to sand it down,redo it Right.
Cole (24:59):
Right on Nope, a lot to think about and you mentioned
something that I think you can'tput a hard cost on.
But that employee, thattechnician efficiency and morale
piece, the technician safetypiece cannot be understated and
I've said this before on theshow, that's, that's the most
(25:20):
basic requirement to get someoneto work for you is safety and
the ability to do your job.
Help them help themselves, helpthem help you and make sure
they can do that help themselves, help them, help you and make
sure they can do that.
Rick (25:36):
Yeah, this is the 1970s, where you can spray your lacquer
on the floor with a towelwrapped around your face and
you're protected, you're good,the car's fine.
I mean, those days are longgone, but I lived through those
days, so I'm talking fromexperience.
The cleaner you can getyourself, the cleaner you can
get the car.
I only want to paint one timeand I don't even want to rub.
I hate rubbing.
I hated rubbing when I was akid, hated it throughout my
career.
I still hate it now.
(25:57):
Yet I see it almost every shopI go to.
They got a detail guy andthat's all he does all day long
is wet sand and rub these cars.
You shouldn't have to do that.
It's not.
It's not part of the.
It shouldn't be part of theprocess.
Cole (26:09):
It really should.
So, man, we probably could havean entire episode about just
ridiculous things you've seen ina booth and that I've at least
heard of seeing in a booth.
I know some of the stories mydad had from selling paint
booths in the eighties to seehow you know, hey, the booths,
the booths messing up my paint.
Yeah, buddy, you're.
You're smoking a cigarette inthe booth while you're painting,
(26:31):
like that.
Rick (26:32):
Come on now, Uh so, um, yeah, I can, I can have a
complete series, uh, and itwould be more of a comedy than
anything else.
Uh, you know the crap I've seenhappen in my career, uh, in the
body shop industry.
But I will say this it's, it'scleaned up a ton, it's gotten so
much better.
And there are shops thatoperate at such a high level,
(26:56):
like a surgeon would right, andI remember seeing years ago
slides of and I think this waswith 5S programs that a lot of
pain companies had and show apicture of a just nasty shop
with stuff all over, and thenshow a picture of a surgeon in a
medical, you know, roompreparing to do surgery.
And the point was is you knowwhich way do you want to be
(27:16):
operating?
You know, in filth and disarrayor in a nice, clean, organized,
sterile environment?
If you're painting a vehicle, ifyou're painting a $75,000 car,
you know, one of my customerswas a Ferrari dealer, you know,
and their jobs had to be really,really nice because they don't
want to be wet, sand and rub it.
These things they really don't.
These are, you know, multihundred thousand dollar cars.
(27:38):
So, yeah, the cleaner, thenicer you can get that
environment, the betterperformance is going to be all
the way around and you're notlosing all that money that I
alluded to earlier.
Like I said, if I did the wholepresentation, it would take
about 45 minutes or an hour andyou'd have probably a lot of
shop owners lighting your phoneup.
So we're not going to do thatright now.
Cole (27:59):
Fair enough, I'll be in full contact throughout the
course of this year.
Yeah and keep us updated there.
I'd love to share your speakingschedule for people who this
has really generated someinterest in checking that out
can do that.
I want to zoom out a little bit, or at least pivot and talk
about paint booths in general.
We've talked about kind of thetopic of the day but now we can
(28:22):
zoom out a little bit, talkabout when we mentioned paint
booths as a revenue generator, amoneymaker, folks might be
saying, hey, I need to replacemine, I need a new one.
We are expanding.
What should body shop owners bethinking about when they're
thinking about buying a newpaint booth and choosing the
(28:43):
right piece of equipment?
Rick (28:45):
Great question, cole.
I could probably come up with acouple ideas on that.
So I'd say, first and foremost,I'm going to say this and
people are going to go oh God,that guy sells booze.
Cheaper is never better.
Do not make your decisionsbased on cost alone, because
that is very short sighted.
So quality does cost more thansomething cheap, right, but
(29:10):
think through what you want todo with your shop.
So if you're an existing shopand you're producing, you know
$100,000 in labor a month, right?
Do you want to increase that orare you just going to stay at
that level?
You know, have your plan as faras OK.
What does my growth look likeNow?
To do that growth, I need to doX amount of cars a day at some
(29:32):
point.
Make sure you're going to buysomething that's got the
capacity to do that much work.
Right?
If you bought an oldcross-draft booth or something
smaller or too small for whatyou're doing, you're going to
limit yourself on how muchproduction you can get.
If the bake cycles are reallyslow because it doesn't get up
to heat very fast, or if itdoesn't really have the capacity
(29:56):
to bake fully at thetemperature you should bake,
then that's not going to be awise choice.
Look at your potential mix ofbusiness too.
So if you're just doing regularvehicles right now but you see
yourself getting into doing moreof these sprinter vans, well
then a normal size booth, anormal height booth, is not
going to work.
You're going to need a high toptype of booth, which I've seen
(30:17):
a lot of those go in.
So you know, take a good lookat what your shop looks like
right now, what you want to looklike in the future.
Prepare for growth, pay aheadfor the growth now, because once
you put a booth in, it's in.
It's a lot of work to pull oneout and put a different one in.
Oh, got it.
I should have gone two feethigher.
I should have gone three feetlonger.
Four feet longer you can ordera booth, at least with Garmin I
(30:40):
know you can go in one footincrements, both lengthwise and
heightwise, right.
So make sure that you'regetting the right size booth
that you want For yourproduction and your size shop.
Maybe a double prep deck mightmake more sense than two booths.
Maybe you need one booth, butyou need double prep deck
because you can do parts, youcan do cut-ins, you could do
small jobs, whatever.
(31:01):
You've tripled your ability tospray rather than just have one
booth or increase it by 50 centif you're just going to have two
booths.
So look at your capacity, lookat your production load.
How much do you want to be ableto do?
Then look at your shop size.
I mean, do you have the room toput extra booths in?
I mean, will you have to dosome construction?
(31:22):
And then, lastly, probably lookat where you're going to put
that booth at.
The last thing you want to dois shove the booth up in a
corner and it's a drive-in,back-out booth.
That means, oh, but I get somuch more production space for
my bodyguards.
Yeah, that's great.
I hope they don't mind movingall those damn cars out.
Every time the booth's got to,you know, we got to take one out
(31:43):
of the booth to get another onein.
I've seen that a million timesand I think God don't let the
architect and if there'sarchitects and designers out
there, I don't mean to offendyou, but do not let the
dealership architect tell you,mr Body Shop Manager, where the
best place is for your booth asyou're setting up a new shop.
I've seen this mistake a lot oftimes too.
Get your paint company involved.
(32:05):
Get your distributor involved.
Get your you know your boothdistributor and your paint
material distributor.
Get those people in a room withyou and think through this,
plan it out, make a gooddecision up front and you won't
regret it.
Right, and I think that there'sa lot more to it, but those are
probably the top things I canreally think about is you know
current state, future growth,what your shop looks like and
(32:29):
buy the best booth you can buyfor the money that you can.
Right, if you're ordering oneout of the back of a magazine,
it's probably not going to lastright Value over price right you
want value Yep.
And lastly and like I said, it'snot really a plug for Gar-Mat,
you can take it as a plug, butbuy something that's built in
(32:52):
the United States and I'm notknocking anybody's booth systems
.
But if you're buying somethingthat's built overseas, there is
going to be a problem.
If you have a down boothsituation and you're waiting in
a park, it's not like they canrun to Grainger and get a
replacement part which andyou're waiting in a part, it's
not like they can run toGrainger and get a replacement
part which.
With most US booths, I thinkmost of the parts you can get
something that'll work at aGrainger location.
But if you've got an overseasbooth, wherever it comes from,
(33:15):
sometimes you're going to haveto wait.
It could be weeks, it could bea month by the time you get a
needed part and I will tell youif your booth is down.
I didn't throw this number outthere, but I'll throw the number
out there now.
If your booth is down, you're afour cycle a day producer,
right?
So you're painting two cyclesin the morning, two in the
(33:36):
afternoon.
That's an average good toaverage shop, right?
Four cycles a day.
If you lose that, the booth isdown, you can't produce, you're
losing $17,400 in production aday.
If you lose that, the booth isdown.
You can't produce, you'relosing seventeen thousand four
hundred dollars in production aday.
So that thing is going to costyou a lot of money, while
sitting there not producing.
Now you can say it's not reallycost me anything.
(33:56):
It is if you normally producefour cycles a day and now you're
doing zero cycles a day.
Right, it's just.
It's just simple math.
So Opportunity.
Cole (34:06):
Cost is real, absolutely.
It impacts your business forsure, and I'd echo a lot of that
sentiment from a business valueperspective.
Potential buyers, for example,value good equipment and
equipment that's well-maintainedand in good shape.
So it's good for the now, it'sgood for maximizing your money,
(34:27):
for keeping your technicianshappy, and it's good for the
future, whenever that time comes.
So love all of that.
I guess I'd end with one thingthe paint booth industry is not
one that's really known for aton of innovation.
Necessarily over the last fewyears you have some really
quality manufacturers thatcreate workhorses.
(34:48):
Is there any innovation thatyou're excited to see in the
industry or within Garmat thatyou'd like to?
Rick (34:53):
share To your point.
I mean, it's a box that movesair and provides heat.
There's only so much you can dowith it, right.
But I will say the boosts overthe last few years.
They're much nicer.
I think they're more efficientthan they ever were as far as
energy usage and heat.
(35:13):
I think the lighting systemshave improved drastically over
the years too.
I know with Garbats.
I really like the way theirlighting system is set up
horizontally as opposed tovertical.
It really reduces shadows.
So that's kind of a cool thingin there.
And they've got a new piece ofsoftware, a new piece of
hardware that they're testmarketing right now in probably
(35:36):
50 shops or so to monitor what'sgoing on with your booth from
both a preventative angle and,from you know, being able to
remotely diagnose something thatmight be going on with your
booth before it becomes aproblem.
So I won't say a whole lotabout it, but we did have it at
(35:58):
SEMA.
It is very, very advanced.
It's very cool.
It's nothing like anybody elsehas out there.
But there is a, you know, aconnectivity trend that's been
going on with Boost in the lastcouple of years, and Garmad is
part of that.
But we've kind of looked ateverybody's and what they had
and kind of developed somethingthat's a little bit more out of
the box than that and I thinkonce they release this out into
(36:19):
the public it's going to bepretty cool.
It really is.
Cole (36:23):
Love it.
Well, I guess I have to takethat back about the lack of
innovation.
I apologize.
Sounds exciting, no, all goodman.
Before we wrap up and saygoodbye, I'd be remiss if I
didn't tee it up for you toremind us about the MindWrench
podcast.
And where can we find it?
Where can?
Rick (36:38):
we listen to it.
What is it?
Cole (36:39):
all about.
Rick (36:40):
The old MindWrench.
Yeah, so I'm still doing theMindWrench.
It's not as often as I was.
I was doing a weekly show andnow it's a bi-weekly show but
I've got lots of stuff that I'mdoing and still want to keep
that going because I reallyenjoy providing anything I can
do of value to share with shopsand technicians.
I was just talking with JayGonen earlier and we're going to
(37:04):
do something together prettysoon here as well, because he's
in.
He's in the same mindset.
But yeah, Mind wrench podcast.
I think I'm almost up to about190 episodes right now.
You can find it everywhere.
It's an.
You know, it's Apple, Spotify,iHeart, Amazon music.
It's.
It's on almost every platformout there.
You just got to look for it.
(37:25):
If you can't find it, hit me upand I'll get you a link to it.
But it's a lot of fun, Cole, asyou know, because you've been
doing it for a while now andthat's how we met was through
the podcast.
It's enjoyable.
You get to meet some greatpeople and you get to provide
some value.
For me, for an older guy, I getto give back a little bit more
(37:46):
and I really enjoy it.
So I'll keep doing it till theypull me off the air.
I love it, man.
Cole (37:53):
It's.
Love the show, reallyappreciate you and the
friendship we've developed andappreciate the insights you've
offered here today.
I think it's really good stuff.
Where can people get in touchwith you now from a Garmat
capacity?
Rick (38:14):
Super easy.
So ricks at garmatcom goesright to my email and, like I
said, I'm national accountmanager so I get involved in a
lot of stuff.
It's great to be able to usesome of my industry knowledge
and background to help ourcompany in the direction they're
going and things they need tolook at.
It's been really, reallyenjoyable.
I can't say enough good thingsabout the company, how they
(38:36):
treat their employees, they knowabout retention and just it's
been a fun place to work.
Cole, I haven't had more fun ata SEMA since I did last than
this year.
So there we go.
Cole (38:45):
No, it's a company that I've worked around for many,
many years with the familybusiness, so a lot of good
friends there and excited foryou and what you got going on,
man.
But hey, thank you so much forjoining us once again on the
collision vision and lookforward to staying in touch.
Rick (39:00):
Absolutely.
We'll keep doing this till theytell us they can't take anymore
.
Let's do it, let's do it.
Thank you for having me on.
I appreciate it.
I really do.
Well, I hope you enjoyed whatwe shared on the show and if
you're a shop owner, manager orpaint tech, hopefully it opened
your eyes a bit on the financialimpacts that can be avoided
with a little betterhousekeeping, a more disciplined
approach to being properlyprepared before your next
(39:22):
refinished job, and how crucialit is to protect and maintain
that cash register of yourbusiness.
If you want more information onthe subject, check out my three
part series Keeping it Clean.
I'll leave a link to thoseepisodes in the show notes,
along with a link to theCollision Vision podcast that
Cole had me on as well.
Thanks again for tuning in.
I really appreciate yoursupport and I hope you have a
(39:43):
great week.
I can always be reached atwwwrickselovercom, where you can
find all my social media linkspodcast episodes, blog posts and
much more.
I'm out.
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