59. Empty Nest Emotions That Challenge Midlife Women

Episode Transcript
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Cheryl Fischer (00:00):
Sometimes loving our kids means letting them go
when all we want to do is holdon tighter.
That's from moms of bigs.
And here's another one for you.
We all need moms who are on theother side of whatever season
we're in.
Moms who can say, hey, I wasthere too, and it was hard, and

(00:21):
I didn't know how we were goingto make it to the other side,
but we did, and you will too.
You will get to the other side.
But for now, you should knowthat you're not alone.
I'm here for you.
That's from Never Empty Nest.
Let's talk about it.
Welcome to Mind Your Midlife,your go-to resource for
confidence and success, onethought at a time.

(00:42):
Unlike most advice out there,we believe that simply telling
you to believe in yourself orchange your habits isn't enough
to wake up excited about life orfeel truly confident in your
body.
Each week, you'll gainactionable strategies and, oh my
goodness, powerful insights tostop feeling stuck and start

(01:04):
loving your midlife.
This is the Mind Your Midlifepodcast.
Empty next.
I have to confess to you that Ihave been putting off this
episode because this is anemotional subject for me, and
that makes it hard to talk abouton a podcast.

(01:26):
But I am practicing myconfidence, assertiveness,
whatever you want to call it,and let's go for it.
I'm speaking.
So my story, just so that youknow who I am and why I'm
talking about this, is not thatI'm an expert on empty nest.

(01:47):
I am a coach.
I have coached with peopleabout feelings related to this.
And probably more importantly,I am an empty nest mom.
Now, I love the concept ofnever empty nest.
Kids always are coming back andcoming and going.
And of course, oh my goodness,moms, you would always welcome

(02:10):
your kids back into the nest.
So is it really empty?
I guess is a question.
But it's a term.
We know what it means.
And for me, I have two kids.
One is grown and married and aparent, and the other is grown
and they're both out of college.
They're both living their bestlives, working.

(02:30):
They do not live near me.
One of them did for a littlewhile, which was such a great
joy.
But right now they both live upand down the East Coast, but
not near me.
So my path through this emptynest phase, or maybe we should
call it the transition from teenyears to empty nest, was filled

(02:53):
with a lot of differentadjustments.
And you'll hear your story inthis, I'm sure.
So having two kids, it was anadjustment when the older one
went away to college.
And at the same time, ouryounger one was still at home.
So I think maybe she felt likethere was sometimes too much
attention on her as the only oneat home.

(03:16):
But, you know, we made itthrough that adjustment.
Then when the younger one wentto college was an interesting
time.
And I'm going to get into allsorts of ways that we can go
through this and some tips foryou.
But I will just say when ouryounger one went away to
college, we had had her at homesome extra time because it was

(03:39):
during COVID.
And you know, I'm certainly notthankful for COVID, but I am
thankful for some things thathappened.
And one of them was that we gotto have our kids at home for
more than we would haveotherwise.
And so it was a big adjustmentwhen she went away to college.
And my husband and I actuallytook a trip right after we moved

(03:59):
her in.
And that was really a goodsegue for us to just kind of
take a deep breath and reconnectat that point.
Then the next transition waswhen the first one graduated
from college and startedworking, and then was living
nearby for a while and gotmarried.

(04:20):
So then that's a whole newdynamic, right?
And we love her, and so that'sgreat.
But the change in dynamic issomething to figure out for
everybody in the family.
And then over the next coupleof years, then the older one was
moving a bit farther awaybecause of work, and the younger

(04:42):
one graduated from college andnow is working, and it feels
like, oh my goodness, they'reboth settled, and that's it.
They're really gone now.
I don't know if that resonateswith anyone.
College felt like a time when Iwas so excited for them.
They both got into the absolutenumber one colleges that they

(05:03):
wanted to get into, and theyweren't local, and that was okay
because it was their number onechoice.
I was so excited for them.
And it still felt a bit like,well, they're coming back,
right?
It's temporary.
And then when they get a joband when they buy a house or
rent an apartment or whateverthey're doing, now it felt like
a whole new shock at that point.

(05:25):
And it's been a little whilesince that happened for the
younger one.
So I'm I'm moving through theshock.
And things will continue tochange, right?
Relationships will change.
I'll have grandkids, and thosethings will change, and then
everybody continues to grow up,including me.
I get more seasoned as we do.
You know, I don't like to saythe O word.

(05:46):
We get more seasoned.
So there's always going to bechange.
And it does feel like there'sreally been a lot of it over the
last few years.
So I tell you that becausemaybe it will resonate with you
as well.
We're in this same boattogether.
And for me, I'm also puzzlingthrough how to be a mom to

(06:11):
adults.
And when my kids were younger,I confess I never bought into
the idea that my child was mybest friend.
I don't think that theparenting relationship when our
kids are younger makes sensethat we're like best friends.
We're the parent, they're thechild.

(06:33):
And I was not, neither myhusband nor I were overly strict
at all.
I don't think my kids woulddisagree with that.
And at the same time, we're theparents.
That's not a best friendrelationship.
And now they're adults.
So now we can create a friendrelationship, but to navigate

(06:53):
between those is tricky.
When do they want me to helpthem in sort of a parental way
from a parental angle?
When do they want me to just bethere as a friend?
And they're learning how tocommunicate that as well.
So we're sort of two or threeor four blind people trying to
figure our way through a darkroom or something like that.

(07:15):
Added to that, and you knowthis because we're the sandwich
generation, gradually we'relosing my mom at the same time.
And so she had figured it out.
She had figured out how to bemy friendslash parent.
And I loved that relationship,but I don't have her to talk

(07:36):
about anymore.
To talk with, I think is what Imeant to say there.
So this is a tough one.
And I hope that what I'm goingto share with you today helps
you.
My goal is really that we allfeel like we have other people
to lean on.
This is not something thatwe're going through in
isolation, and it's notsomething that you have to try

(07:56):
to deal with on your own.
And it's not only you that hasever struggled.
And I think because we are packanimals, if you will, we're
community people, knowing thatother people in the community
have dealt with the same thingsthat we have, and knowing that
our thoughts and our feelingsare okay is really powerful for

(08:18):
comfort and for being able tokind of calm our nervous system
and think through how to moveforward.
So that's my goal for you withthis episode.
All right, let's dive into it.

(09:07):
There are a couple of ways tolook at empty nest.
I'm doing air quotes with myfingers.
On the one hand, you areexcited for your kids, right?
You are cheering them on.
You are probably amazed at whatthey are becoming.

(09:29):
I should say who they arebecoming.
You're you're cheering them onto follow their dreams.
You are impressed with whatthey're doing and the decisions
they're making.
You absolutely want them goingto the school that they want to
go to or living in the placethat they want to leave, live.

(09:49):
Gosh, that was an interestingFreudian slip.
And so you're in their corner.
It's exciting.
It's exciting when your kidsactually become adult members of
society, and you can go, I hada part in helping them to do
that.
And then the other way thatyou're probably also thinking

(10:12):
about it and feeling about it isthat you're sad.
It's a part of this process isgrief.
You are sad because you'regrieving the relationship, the
relationship you had that wasday-to-day presence in the same

(10:32):
home.
You miss them.
Maybe you ask yourself, well,why did they want to go so far?
Why didn't they want to go tothe school down the road?
What did I do that made themwant to go that far?
Is it my fault?
Why are they leaving?
Did I chase them out?

(10:53):
And whether or not there areissues like that where you worry
about what you've said or donethat might have impacted their
need to leave, you're just sadthat they're not around every
day.
And that's okay.
So that mix of excited, happy,proud, and sad grieving is a

(11:18):
tricky one.
And of course, we know asparents, isn't that true of so
many aspects of life?
I think we get a little bit ofthat when they start driving on
their own and we wave them outof the driveway.
We even get a little bit ofthat when they start going to
school and we put them on thebus or drop them off at school.
We're excited for them, andit's hard to say, okay, see you

(11:40):
later, in whatever form thattakes.
So there's always going to bethat mix.
And what I at the very leastwant you to be able to do is
recognize those emotions andknow that it's normal and it's
actually good.
Allow yourself to go through,it's really kind of a grieving

(12:01):
process when they leave home.
That's okay.
It's okay to feel that loss orthat sadness, and at the same
time be excited and proud.
Completely normal.
And I think, I mean, maybe thatjust describes motherhood in
general.
So they've left home, they'refollowing their dreams, maybe

(12:24):
they went to school or they wentto the military or whatever
they did.
If they did go to school, anytype of school that's, you know,
got a defined period of time,then there's a whole new round
of this after they graduate fromthat school.
Because what happens then?
Well, some of them come backhome.

(12:47):
And if they come back home,they might be happy about it, or
they might be not so happyabout it.
If they come back home, maybethey're living in the same area,
but they have their ownapartment, they've got a job, or
whatever they're doing.
Or maybe they come literallyback into your home and they're
back in their old bedroom andthey're looking for a job or

(13:09):
trying to figure out what to donext.
Or maybe they didn't come backhome at all.
Maybe now they live far away.
And that could be in the samearea where they went to school,
like one of mine does, or itcould be in a different place
entirely.
And maybe it was because that'swhere they got a job, which is

(13:29):
a little easier for us toexplain to ourselves because
well, they got a job there, soof course they have to go.
Or maybe there's just somewherethat they always wanted to
live.
And they say, you know what, Ialways wanted to go there.
I'm going, I'm doing it, I'mfiguring it out.
Typically, what I find is thatyou are going to flip-flop
between sort of two ends of thespectrum on how we feel about

(13:55):
what our kids are doing afterthey've had their temporary
school-related away from homeperiod.
And what I want to make sure weunderstand, first of all, is
how these feelings come up andthat they're okay, but second of
all, that this is not acomparison thing with other
people.

(14:15):
And you'll hear what I mean aswe talk it through.
So let's say that one or moreof your kids have come home
after school, after college.
There's a few different ways wecan look at it.
And on the one end of thespectrum, maybe you are
thinking, okay, are they justtaking advantage?

(14:39):
Should I charge them rent?
Are they ever gonna leave?
Or they just wanna hang in mybasement forever.
I'm thinking of the moviefailure to launch.
Um it's a funny movie.
I can't remember who's in it,but funny movie.
Maybe you kind of joke, willthey ever leave?
Most of the time, if you'refeeling lately on that end of

(15:02):
the spectrum, I think you reallysecretly love having them.
Of course you do.
Of course we do.
I would give anything, any day,any time to have my kids at
home with me.
And you want them to be out inthe world doing something
productive.
So maybe you're kind of notfeeling super positive at the
moment about them being at home.

(15:24):
You're kind of wanting them tolaunch.
I promise you that on the otherend of the spectrum, there are
people who are looking at youand wishing that their kids had
come home or that their kidslived nearby.
Or maybe you're at a phaseright now where you are truly
thrilled that your kids camehome or that they live nearby.

(15:46):
And as I said, I had a piece ofthat.
One of mine lived near home inan apartment, but near home for
a year, and I loved it.
I loved it.
I was so happy.
We saw them about once a weekto have dinner or get together
or do activities.
I loved it.
Loved it.

(16:08):
And so I guess that was maybemy favorite scenario, if I'm
thinking through my own personalsituation, to be nearby and
also know that they were, theywere kind of living their best
life, had their own apartment,doing their thing, had a job.
So if your child is looking fora job, they're struggling,

(16:31):
they're trying to figure it out,they're living at home, that
can be hard because you wonder,are they going to, you wonder in
a worrying way, are they gonnabe okay?
Are they gonna be able to get ajob?
Should I help them?
I'm not sure what to do.
But maybe you also wonder, arethey gonna, are they gonna, you
know, get their get up and goand figure it out?
And at the same time, if yourkids are far away, you might

(16:53):
envy the people whose kids areat home.
Now, what if your kids havegotten a great job or gone on a
great adventure and they livefar away?
There's kind of two ends of thespectrum on how we tend to feel
about this, too.
On the one hand, you may feelso proud and excited for them,

(17:14):
kind of like I mentioned at thebeginning.
They're following their dreams,they're making big decisions,
they got a job in the field theywanted, or they went to the
place they had always wanted togo.
That is inspiring.
It is always inspiring, and youare so excited for them, and
maybe you're kind of bragging toyour friends and family about
them.
That's amazing.

(17:35):
And at the very same time, itis completely normal to be so
sad about them being far away.
And this is where I think theemptiness kind of terminology
comes from because we feel aloss.
The house is empty.
My husband and I are stillhere, but the house is empty of

(17:57):
kids.
Why did they go so far?
Why did they need to go so far?
Were they trying to get awayfrom me?
Did I drive them away?
You might be asking yourselfthings like this.
Do they know they can alwayscome home?
I, if you had a good, positive,generally healthy family

(18:19):
relationship, they probably doknow they can always come home.
And I would encourage you tosay it.
I try to remember to say thisto our kids at least every now
and then.
We always want to see you.
You are always welcome, comeanytime.
Always welcome, come anytime.
But the question of did I drivethem away, this is interesting

(18:43):
because when I graduated fromcollege, see if you resonate
with this at all, I would havedone anything to be out on my
own.
I absolutely 100% was notwilling to go back and live at
home.
I have always been veryindependent to my detriment to
in certain cases.
And so there's no way that Iwas going back home.

(19:06):
I did live back at home for thesummer between college and grad
school, because I went right tograd school after college, and
that was it.
And once I had a grad schoolapartment, I stayed and I ended
up staying in that same placeforever, basically, because then
I got a job and then I met myhusband, etc., etc.
etc.
But I would have done anything.

(19:27):
I would have done anything tofigure out how to be out on my
own.
Is that a diss against myparents?
Well, not really.
I didn't like them still tryingto parent me necessarily.
I wanted my independence, ifI'm being honest.
There was a little bit maybethat I was like, nope, no

(19:48):
parents.
But it wasn't against thempersonally.
I wanted to be independent.
I wanted to have my own place.
I wanted to have a job.
I wanted to do my own thing.
And that's good.
So if your kids are superindependent and they are wanting
to have a job and have theirown place and be in the place
they really want to be, that'sgood.

(20:11):
And sometimes, like I mentionedbefore, we get we get jealous,
really, is the emotion of peoplewhose kids come back home.
And we worry, why do my kidsnot come back home?
Why did their kids come backhome?
Are they a better parent?
Do their kids love them morethan my kids love me?

(20:32):
And even saying that out loud,I'm thinking, well, that's so
silly.
It's so silly to think thatway.
That has nothing to do with it.
And we still do it, don't we?
We still do it, we stillquestion it.
I think being a mom means kindof questioning everything all
the time.
We get this extra worry placedin our heads when the baby is
born, and that's okay.

(20:52):
And we also want to not take itto extremes because worry is
not productive, it doesn't helpus at all.
If you've experienced thisjealousy, your kids are not
nearby, you see people whosekids are coming home, they're
living at home for a while, andyou're jealous, you don't
understand why you didn't get tohave that time.
I get it.

(21:14):
And quite frankly, at whateverstage your nest becomes fully
empty, that jealousy might takehold because there's always
going to be somebody you knowwhose kids are at home or
they're closer by and it'seasier for them to visit.
It's okay to have that feeling.
I want you to recognize it forwhat it is.

(21:35):
You wish your kids were athome.
You're sad that they can't be.
You see other people havingwhat you want.
And I want you to tellyourself, I do feel that.
It's okay for me to feel that.
And at the very same time,would you change what they're
doing if they're out there inthe world going for their

(21:57):
dreams, working, living in aplace they want to live?
I don't think you would.
And the fact that they're outthere doing their thing and
going for what they want speakswell of how you raise them.
You raise them to figure outwhat they wanted in life.
You raise them to live by theirbeliefs, you raise them to go

(22:20):
for what they want.
And that is such a huge victoryas a parent.
So good for you.
Pat yourself on the back andthen plan a trip to visit.
What I wanted to go throughhere is the different
perspectives that we're allgoing to have about an empty

(22:42):
nest.
Maybe your nest was empty now,it's full again, like we were
talking about.
Maybe it's empty and you wishit was full because your friends
is full again.
Maybe you wish it was emptywhile it's full again now.
There's always two ways to lookat these situations.
And quite frankly, a lot oftimes both are true at the same

(23:04):
time.
So everybody's personalexperience with this phase of
life is going to be different.
And you have colored yourperspective with your own
experience of leaving home whenyou were 18 or 22 or 25 or
whatever age it was.
Did you want to leave?
Did you want to be out on yourown like I did?

(23:26):
Or maybe you didn't.
Maybe you wanted to come backhome for a while and save money
or live nearby.
Did you want to go on a bigadventure and be somewhere far
away?
Was it because you wanted to befar from your parents, or was
it simply that that's where youwanted to be?
Or did you not want that?
Or did you have to come homebecause you couldn't get a job,

(23:49):
or something went wrong, orsomething fell apart?
And so you have a negativeassociation with that.
I want you to just spend aminute thinking about what your
personal experience was duringthis phase of your own life,
because that is what colors howwe look at being an empty nester

(24:09):
now.
Whether you wanted to leave andcouldn't, wanted to leave and
did, didn't want to leave andhad to, didn't want to leave and
so didn't, affects how you lookat your kids' decisions.
Because your kids may or maynot be feeling the same way.
If you were just chomping atthe bit to get out of your

(24:30):
parents' house, that might notbe true of your kids, even if
they are living farther away.
If you were desperate to comehome and your kids are not
making that decision, that alsomight not be a bad thing.
It might be a good thing.
It might mean that you'veinspired them to be more
adventurous than you were atthat point in your life.
And maybe that's a good thing.

(24:52):
If they do want to come backhome to you, and you would have
never gone back home, that canbe a good thing too.
So what I'm working on, and Ibelieve me when I tell you that
it has been a bumpy road throughthe last, gosh, let me think

(25:13):
about this.
The last seven years of thisemptiness transition from the
time the first one went tocollege to now, it's been a
bumpy road.
And I haven't done everythingcorrectly, certainly not
perfectly.
None of us will.
We don't always get to beperfect, do we?
It's quite rare, in fact.
But here's what I'm thinkingabout and kind of evaluating and

(25:36):
working on.
And this is what I want tosuggest for you as well.
Ask yourself how your kids loveto be loved by you.
And if you remember the fivelove languages, that was
originally written for loverelationships like marriage or
dating.

(25:57):
But we can apply it here.
What have you sensed resonateswith your kids?
Is it your words, maybe likesending texts regularly or
sending cards in the mail?
Talking on the phone?
Is it gifts?
Is that their love language?
Sending them cute little stuff.
It doesn't have to be aboutmoney.
Is it acts of service?

(26:18):
Now, if they live far away,that might be a trickier one,
but you can think about it.
What could you do?
Is it quality time?
And that doesn't mean quantitytime, it means quality.
Is it personal touch like hugs?
Is that what really helps themto feel loved?
That's going to need someone-on-one quality time if
that's the case.
Think about as they weregrowing up, could you see a

(26:42):
pattern in what theyappreciated?
And sometimes it's what theydid for you.
And this was a big realizationfor me recently as I was trying
to figure this out.
Sometimes it's what they didfor you that says how they would
want you to love them.
And if you can figure out whatthese things are that might

(27:04):
really speak to your adult kids,then think about how you can do
that now.
Maybe there's a creative way.
Maybe just adding in a littledash of some new way of
communicating or a different wayof interacting when you do get
to be together will really speakto them.
Think about that.

(27:25):
As I said, I haven't beenperfect at this.
Change has been reallychallenging for us and our
family.
And that kind of surprised mebecause generally I like change,
I love a new adventure.
And the key then is that Iraised kids who like change and
love a new adventure, whichcreates an empty nest at some

(27:46):
point.
And that's healthy.
And when I really look at it,it's a good thing.
And I want them to be out inthe world doing exactly what
they want to do.
So please try never ever tocompare yourself with someone
else, especially because youdon't know what's going on
behind the scenes in someoneelse's relationship or in

(28:07):
someone else's family.
We never know.
So I want to read you anexcerpt from the book Moms Never
Stop Momming.
And I will put the link to thisbook on my read page,
Cherylpfisher.com/slash read, incase you want to grab it.
It's a collection of essays andjust so heartfelt.

(28:28):
I think if you're dealing withempty nest, you can kind of
process your emotions a littlebit reading through these
essays.
But I want to read you one ofthem called Fly.
Like what I like, think how Ithink, do what I do, be who I
am.
For years this was my life'smantra and thus my mom mantra.

(28:50):
Make decisions quickly, enjoywatching football, be an
extrovert, believe everydoctrine I espouse about God.
On and on the list went, mysecret goal to transform my kids
into my spitting image.
It was not ill-intentioned.
I thought I was doing liferight, but it wasn't good,
healthy, or loving.
I was missing out on the beautyof diversity among my kids.

(29:10):
They were all so different, andI had much to learn from each
one of them.
I was missing out on how mykids would challenge me, show me
something new that I had neverexperienced before, and perhaps
would really enjoy, and speakinto the parts of me that needed
to change.
I was missing out on my actualkids, what they like and don't,
what brings them joy, whatcauses them pain and disgust and

(29:31):
perhaps makes them angry, whothey are underneath all the
outer pretenses and baggyclothes.
I'm gonna pick it up a littlebit later.
And it means allowing each ofmy kids to be perfectly
themselves without an agenda inmy back pocket.
It means receiving the varietyof gifts that each one brings,
gifts I would never receive ifthey were just like me.

(29:53):
It's not about having a bunchof mini me's jumbled together at
the holidays or on the latestfamily vacation, but about
having a whole group of you'sthat come together to form a
beautiful, beautiful, colorful,and mixed up us.
And as we say in our house,trail mix is a lot more fun than
eating a whole bag of peanuts.
So here's my final thought formy kids like what you like,

(30:17):
think how you think, do what youdo, be who you are.
These are your wings of freedomto be completely yourself.
Fly.
Now make sure that you havesubscribed to the Mindset deep
dive, which is a mini series ofcoaching episodes happening

(30:39):
every single month.
You can go to Mind Your Midlifeon Apple Podcasts and subscribe
right there or go toCherylpfisher.com/slash bonus
episodes.
Right now we are talking aboutbody image, and then we'll move
on to the next topic soon.
And then make sure you have hitthe follow button because next

(31:01):
time it's going to be the Fridayright after Thanksgiving in the
US, and we are going to betalking about gratitude.
And by that I mean thegratitude you're thinking about,
where you write down thingsthat you're grateful for, but
also how to express it to otherpeople.
And I'm bringing back some verywise words from one of our most

(31:24):
popular episodes years agounder the previous version of
the podcast.
So hit the follow button andmake sure you catch that one
next time.
And in the meantime, keepremembering that midlife is your
time to take just a little bitbetter care of yourself on the
outside and the inside.
Just a little bit more caremakes a huge difference.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}59. Empty Nest Emotions That Challenge Midlife Women

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59. Empty Nest Emotions That Challenge Midlife Women

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