Have you ever noticed how fast your brain can spiral into worst-case-scenario mode, focused on the worries, the fears, the what-ifs? And yes, you’ve heard that gratitude can help you shift out of that… but maybe it’s felt a little too simple to be real.
In this episode, I’m breaking down why gratitude isn’t a personality trait — it’s a practice — and how it can literally calm your nervous system and pull you out of fear. I’m also joined by my longtime friend Jennifer Richwine, Executive Director of the Wake Washington Center of WFU and author of With Gratitude: The Power of a Thank You Note, to talk about the kind of outward gratitude that strengthens relationships, boosts confidence, and makes people feel seen.
BY THE TIME YOU FINISH LISTENING, YOU’LL DISCOVER:
✔ Simple ways to build an internal gratitude habit, even if you are not a gratitude-journal person
✔ Why expressing gratitude out loud (and especially in a handwritten note) has a bigger impact than you think
✔ The truth about thank-you timing — including why it’s never too late to tell someone they mattered
✔ How anonymous gratitude and giving can be surprisingly powerful for both you and the person receiving it
🎯 OMG Moment: You have the power to positively impact someone’s life — and your own — simply by saying thank you and naming what you appreciated.
Take Action
Pick one tiny gratitude habit you’ll actually do.
- At night: write down one thing you’re grateful for and one small win from the day.
- During the day: pause when you see a “glimmer” and think, wow, that was good.
- This week: send one thank-you note to someone who made your day easier or brighter.
- Get the book!
Don’t overthink it. Just start.
Why This Episode Matters
Midlife comes with real challenges — changing bodies, shifting roles, aging parents, career pivots, and days that feel heavy. Gratitude doesn’t erase any of that. But it does train your brain to notice the good alongside the hard, which changes your baseline state over time... hello success mindset! And when you express gratitude outwardly, you strengthen connection and remind people (including yourself) that what they do matters.
Subscribe to bonus episodes at cherylpfischer.com/bonusepisodes.
🌸 Liked this episode? Share it with fellow Gen X women navigating hormone balance, an empty nest, and/or self-confidence!
🫶 Love this show? Leave a review to help more women over 50 find us.
💡Want menopause support, mindset shifts, or support with midlife transitions?
- Build a mindset for success with the private bonus episodes!
- Book a free Mindset Coaching / Intro Call: cherylpfischer.com/coaching
Let’s talk midlife body positivity, self-talk, and redefining aging for women — without the “midlife crisis” narrative. Every week I'm adding new success strategies for midlife women.
Connect with Cheryl, Midlife Coach: Instagram | LinkedIn | Website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cheryl Fischer (00:00):
Have you ever noticed how fast your brain can
spiral into worst-case scenariomode?
The worries, the fears, all ofthat.
And you've probably heard thatpracticing gratitude is a way to
shift out of that, but maybe itseems overly simplified.
So by the end of this episode,you're gonna have a few simple
(00:21):
ways to practice gratitudeinternally and out towards
others that actually stick, evenif you're not a gratitude
journal person.
So let's talk about it.
Welcome to Mind Your Midlife,your go-to resource for
confidence and success, onethought at a time.
Unlike most advice out there,we believe that simply telling
(00:44):
you to believe in yourself orchange your habits isn't enough
to wake up excited about life orfeel truly confident in your
body.
Each week, you'll gainactionable strategies and, oh my
goodness, powerful insights tostop feeling stuck and start
loving your midlife.
This is the Mind Your Midlifepodcast.
(01:05):
Now, the first thing that Iwill say is that gratitude is a
practice.
It's not a personality trait.
You know how sometimes we say,I'm a warrior, that's me, that's
my personality.
Well, nobody's personality isI'm a gratituder.
Not that that's a word.
(01:27):
It's something that we practiceto get better at, and we do it
on purpose so that we can shiftthe way that we're thinking,
which shifts the results we'regetting in our lives.
So if it feels hard sometimesto be grateful for anything,
that doesn't mean you're anungrateful, snarky, difficult
(01:48):
person.
It means you're human.
So we just need to practice.
It's like strength training foryour attention and your focus.
And midlife isn't simple,right?
So this is going to be reallypowerful for you to learn to
practice gratitude.
And also there are going to bechallenging days.
(02:10):
Now, I'm joined today by a verygood friend of mine, Jennifer
Richwine.
We met in college many yearsago, and she is now the
executive director of the WakeWashington Center for Wake
Forest.
She is also the author of thebook With Gratitude: The Power
(02:30):
of a Thank You Note, which wasthe number one new release in
business etiquette when shereleased the book.
So I'm gonna bring her in a fewtimes during this episode to
share with us some thoughtsabout outbound, let's say,
outward gratitude, because it'snot just about saying it all
inside our heads.
(02:51):
I love the quote from GB Sternthat you include at the
beginning of the book, which issilent gratitude isn't much use
to anyone.
And I completely agree.
Expressing gratitude is reallypowerful.
What does that quote mean toyou?
Jennifer Richwine (03:08):
Well, obviously, that quote is very
important to me.
And, you know, I think it'sgreat to feel gratitude.
I think there are lots ofstudies out there that talk
about the more gratitude youfeel, the healthier you are, the
better your mental health, themore productive you are.
And so just feeling gratitudeis great.
But that's only a small pieceof the puzzle.
(03:29):
So expressing gratitude isactually the larger piece of
that in terms of mental healthand friendships and
relationships.
So if you feel gratitude, butyou're not expressing it to
somebody, why does it reallymatter?
So there are lots of timeswhere you'll hear people talk
about something they're reallygrateful for or somebody they're
really grateful for, butthey're not telling that person.
(03:51):
And so part of my goal with thebook is to really encourage
people to express that gratitudeto other people because that
changes lives.
And so someone simplyexpressing gratitude can really
make a difference, not just intheir day, but in their outlook,
how they see themselves, howmeaningful they feel like their
lives are.
So I think if you you feelgratitude, that's great, but
(04:12):
expressing it is really sort ofthe power punch.
Cheryl Fischer (04:15):
Okay, so that means we want to be doing both,
right?
We want the internal gratitudethat is healthy and powerful for
your brain.
We're gonna talk about how andwhy, and the external, where we
send this out to others and asJennifer said, potentially
change lives.
You've heard me say before thatour subconscious brains are
(04:40):
basically running the show.
And what does the subconsciousbrain mean?
Well, it's the part of yourbrain where all the things you
believe about the world, aboutyour faith, about what you can
and can't do, about results thatwill happen when you take any
particular action, and how yourbody runs, your heartbeat and
(05:00):
blood pumping and all of that.
It's all saved in there.
And you can visualize that bythinking about the last time
that you got in the car anddrove somewhere and you arrived
there and you can't remember howyou got there.
It's because your brain was incontrol, handling it.
Now, maybe that's not thesafest way to go, but that's
(05:21):
what happens when we do theserepetitive things.
Now, that brain also is incharge of keeping you safe,
keeping you alive.
And that is its most importantjob.
And so oftentimes keeping youalive, keeping you safe, means
hanging back from things,worrying about things, focusing
(05:44):
on anxiety or fear.
And so sometimes we get stuckin that loop with your brain
just trying to keep you safe.
Now, the cool part of gratitudeis that your brain can't
respond to gratitude and fear atthe same time.
So if we can figure out a wayto switch into being thankful,
(06:08):
being grateful, the fear willrecede.
Our brains just cannot focus onboth of those at the same time.
So that's exciting.
That's really good.
And as we mentioned a minuteago, it's really healthy for us
to get out of that fear statebecause it's gonna calm your
(06:29):
nervous system.
You're gonna get back in theparasympathetic nervous system,
and your body is gonna be ableto run all its processes as it
is supposed to do, all goodthings.
And how do we do it?
Creating a practice of what I'mgonna call internal gratitude,
(06:49):
which is the thinking about itpart and feeling it part.
What we need is to create ahabit.
And maybe what you need is alittle trigger where you get
into bed at night and you have alittle notebook sitting next to
your bed and you write down oneor two or three things you're
(07:10):
grateful for.
Even better, write down onething you're grateful for and a
win from that day, somethingthat went well.
You're practicing focusing onthat before you go to sleep.
Or maybe it's something thatyou like to do in the morning,
kind of a miracle morning typething.
Or maybe you have a sticky noteon your computer that says
(07:34):
thank you or grateful.
And that reminds you to pauseand think about it and think,
wow, my coffee tasted reallygood today.
Wow, my husband unloaded thedishwasher, my daughter laughed
this morning at breakfast.
Such tiny, simple things.
And it's just picking a time ofday where it feels good to do
(07:57):
that and then creating a habit.
Because you've heard me talkabout glimmers before.
It's very similar.
Concept.
We're training our brains tonotice these things that we can
be grateful for.
And the noticing is what wewant to get better at because
then we're gonna notice more,we're gonna notice more, and
we're gonna notice more.
Now let's switch back toexternal gratitude.
(08:20):
It's really about yourintention when you are thanking
someone and expressinggratitude.
Jennifer Richwine (09:02):
I'm a little bit of a stickler on the
handwritten thanking note.
That is why I wrote the book.
I do feel strongly about ahandwritten note, which I'll go
into in a minute as to why.
But I will just say expressinggratitude of any kind is better
than not.
So verbalizing it to someoneface to face is important.
If you must send an email, thatis also a way to express
(09:25):
gratitude.
And it's better than notexpressing gratitude.
I'll tell you why I like thehandwritten thank you.
Number one, it is not verycommon right now.
And from a actual, from aprofessional standpoint, you
would not believe the number ofpeople who comment on the fact
that our students that are herein this program write
handwritten thank you notes totheir mentors and their uh
people that manage them whilethey're here for the semester
(09:47):
when they're interning.
It is something that stands outin today's world because very
few people are doing it.
And we actually hear stories ofpeople getting a job offer
because when all things wereequal, our students are the ones
writing thank you notes.
So I do think it stands out.
So for professional reasons, Ithink it's great.
But part of it is just me,think about it, Cheryl.
If you open up an email, youprobably read it pretty quickly.
(10:11):
There you know that someonecould have written it very
quickly.
You may not think much aboutthe fact you probably are gonna
be like, oh, that's really nicethat they wrote me a note of
gratitude in an email.
You're not gonna get upset bythat.
But if they take the time tohave note cards, to handwrite a
note, have a stamp, put it inthe mail, they're going to have
put more thought into it.
So it's probably gonna be abetter note no matter what.
(10:33):
There are probably not gonna beas many errors in it because in
emails, people use shortlanguage, they don't use
complete sentences.
It's just a more thoughtfulthing.
And I don't know that anybodysits down and says, oh, they sat
down and wrote me a handwrittennote, but it is instinctual
that you are feeling thatgratitude more because someone
took the time to handwrite it.
It's also great because if Iget a really nice thank you note
(10:55):
on an email, I will print itout and save it.
But most people don't do that,and so it's it's ephemeral, it's
gone.
Whereas handwritten thank younotes, I go into people's
offices all the time and theyhave handwritten notes taped to
their boards.
I have people who have framedhandwritten notes.
My mother keeps her favoritethank you notes in her Bible.
So I do think it needs more.
Cheryl Fischer (11:14):
So we're we're aware that we want to create a
habit and we want to create thisinternal habit of noticing,
maybe jotting down, thinkingthrough these items that we're
grateful for, and an externalhabit.
And you heard Jennifer say thattaking a minute and handwriting
is even better.
That intention is reallyrecognized by the recipient of
(11:37):
the note, and it means you'respending a little more time with
gratitude as you do it.
So, what if life is not goingsuper perfect for you right now?
And we're in midlife.
So there are challenges, thereare changes, there are tough
days, and I get it because Ihave that too.
(11:57):
And so we sometimes worry thatif we start to be grateful for
all the things and tell everyonethank you and write notes and
everything, then it's almostlike we're accepting things as
they are now, and maybe we'reokay with it not changing.
That's not that's not true atall.
(12:20):
I used to think that beinggrateful for something meant
that I was saying, this is fine,I don't need more.
That's not what we're saying.
Gratitude is about learning tocontinue to appreciate things,
learning to notice the goodthings, and learning to share
(12:40):
those good things with otherpeople when we're doing this
external outward gratitude aswell.
So if you are struggling, maybeyour gratitude sounds a little
different.
Maybe you're doing a careerpivot and you're thinking to
yourself, I'm grateful for theskills I have and I'm ready for
what's next.
Or if you're having some bodystruggles, I mean, goodness,
(13:04):
aren't we?
You can be grateful for whatyour body does for you every
day.
And you can say, I'm caring formy body well now in a
relationship.
You can be grateful for what'sgoing well and you can be
looking forward to it gettingbetter.
So think of this as a way tonotice the good, calm your body,
(13:25):
share with other people so thatthey can have that same
experience.
And and it doesn't have to bethat life is perfect.
And sometimes gratitude canreach across the years.
If you are rememberingsomething that really meant
something to you, express it.
(13:47):
I think for some of us, once wedecide to do something like
this, we say, okay, she's right,she makes great points, we're
gonna start doing thank younotes, we're gonna get in the
habit.
Now we start to make a bunch ofrules for ourselves.
And you actually touched onthis earlier a little bit.
If we don't send the note bythis date, it's not worth it,
(14:10):
it's too late, we have to do itthis certain way, things like
that.
The question is then, what isthe best time to write a thank
you note?
Jennifer Richwine (14:18):
Well, I love that question because it comes
up quite a bit.
And I do think people often, ifthey procrastinate, then they
feel like, well, it's just toolate.
So the example that I sort ofalluded to earlier was with a
student who was coming in as afreshman.
And she said, you know, when Iwas looking at Wake Forest
several years ago, a friend ofmy mother's invited me to come
(14:40):
stay with her in Winston-Salemwhile I looked at Wake Forest.
And while I was there, she hadgone by herself to her mother's
friends.
And that person gave her a lotof great advice as she was
thinking about colleges and howto think about which college she
should attend and just was veryhelpful for her.
And she said, I never thankedher.
And now it's three years later,and it just feels like it's too
(15:03):
late.
And I said, Well, actually,it's perfect timing because here
you are at Wake Forest.
And I bet a lot of what shetold you is what led you here.
So now that you're here in yourfirst week of freshman year,
now's a great time to write herand tell her that you're here on
campus and how much you enjoyedthe conversation and how
meaningful it was and how youstill considered her advice as
you were applying to colleges.
And I think it's perfecttiming.
(15:24):
So now look, if someone gaveyou a gift, it really is nice to
get it out as quick as you can,in part because they may not
know that you've got it.
I'm not being critical when I'mthinking, okay, they haven't
written me a thank you note, I'mmore just wanting to make sure
they got it.
But but I know it, I know if Iask if they got it, they're
gonna think I'm asking because Iwant a thank you note, and that
that actually isn't it.
So if someone gave yousomething or did something, and
(15:45):
you need to write it as soon asyou can just so they know that
they received it.
But but it's never too late.
And in fact, I think some ofthe best thank you notes are the
ones that come way, way, waydown the road.
And really, because um, one ofthe things I talk about in the
book is that writing a thank younote as perfunctory action is
good and better than not, butreally thank you notes are more
most powerful when you'rewriting about the impact of a
(16:08):
kindness or a gift or just theimpact someone's had on your
life.
So I love having people do thelittle exercise of think of
someone or a few someones inyour life, maybe way back in
your life, who did somethingthat still resonates with you
and has had an impact on you.
And just see what happens whenyou write them a thank you note.
(16:28):
What it tells people is theyreally did have a lasting
impact, that they have a legacythat lives on 10 years, 15
years, 20 years down the road.
You still think about somethingthey did for you, or you still
think about something they saidto you, or you still think about
a way that they positivelyimpacted your life.
That's powerful that you getthose notes.
So I say it's never too late.
Cheryl Fischer (16:50):
The other thing about gratitude, whether it's
internal or whether it'sexternal, outward to someone
else, is that it's helping us tobe more present.
Because when you are focused onappreciating what is happening
to you right at that moment orwhat someone has done for you,
it brings you back to thepresent moment.
(17:10):
And that's what we mean,really.
That's all we mean when we saymindfulness.
It's getting, it's slowing downall the blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah going on inyour head and focusing on right
now.
And sometimes you can do thatwith meditation, you can do it
with a five senses, you know,notice what do I hear, see,
smell, taste right now, all ofthat.
(17:31):
And you can just do it bylooking for something that
you're grateful for right now,in this moment.
And it teaches your body thatyou're safe.
And when we express thisgratitude, we express what we
appreciate.
It just lands so deeply withother people.
(17:51):
So what if you are thankingsomeone for simply doing
ordinary good stuff?
Jennifer Richwine (18:00):
There are a lot of people on our campus, and
a lot of people and many jobsthat have sort of behind the
scenes work, but their work iscritical.
And it is astounding whathappens when you express
gratitude to people for doingtheir jobs and how much meaning
it gives to them and does makethem feel like they're making
everybody, everybody wants tofeel like they're making a
difference.
And yet there are a lot of jobswhere people only hear from
(18:24):
other people when something goeswrong, especially customer
service jobs.
They only hear the bad stuff,they never hear the good stuff.
So I love taking notes with mewhen I travel.
I'll write thank you notes topeople who just got me extra
soap in a hotel room or um werejust really pleasant to me when
I checked in at the airportcounter because a lot of times
those people are not as pleasantas we would want them to be.
(18:46):
When people do that kind ofstuff, I just love to say thank
you.
And I think it just makes a bigdifference for them and knowing
that the work they do matters.
Cheryl Fischer (18:54):
I think that's such a great point.
Why aren't we more focused onthanking people for just being
great on an everyday basis?
Maybe that's something for youand for me to focus on after
listening to this episode.
Because there are a lot ofpeople out there that are, I'm
gonna say, unsung heroes, right?
(19:16):
They're doing their thing, it'smaking a difference, but they
never hear.
And what if you really want toexpress gratitude?
You know it'll make adifference, but you're thinking
about doing it anonymously.
What about that?
Worth it?
Good idea?
Let's see.
Jennifer Richwine (19:36):
So I do talk about this in the book.
I think anonymous thank younotes are absolute magic.
And people are reluctant to doit, and then maybe it's because
they think they need to berecognized or they need the
person to know it was them thatwrote it.
But it is such a gift when youget an anonymous thank you note.
So one that's in the book andone that's not one.
(19:56):
I I gotta note it was highevent season where I was
literally working around theclock.
I do not think I think it wasdark when I got to work and dark
when I left to go home formultiple days on end, and and I
actually was exhausted and notfeeling like I was making much
of an impact and wasn't sure whyI was in the job I was in.
And I came in one morning andthere was a piece of white eight
(20:20):
and a half by 11 copy papershoved under my door.
And on it was a handwrittennote for my students who did not
put their name.
They said they were writing onbehalf of other students.
They said they knew that I didnot get a lot of recognition for
the work I did, but that theevents that I worked on and the
speakers I brought made such adifference in their experience
at Wake Forest and how gratefulthey were that I was doing the
(20:42):
job I was doing.
That was incredible.
I mean, that was I have no tothis day, I still don't know who
it was.
But what I did was I walkedaround campus for the next week
and a half, thinking everystudent could have been that
person that wrote me that note.
It's amazing how powerful thatis.
And really, just maybe twomonths ago, I received a note in
the mail at the office fromagain, someone I do not know who
(21:03):
it is.
The return address was from astate I don't recognize.
Some, I mean, I recognize thedate.
I didn't recognize anybody fromthe state.
Cheryl Fischer (21:09):
I was hoping.
Jennifer Richwine (21:10):
I mean, we did go to college.
So maybe somebody put it in themail somewhere they don't live.
I don't know.
Maybe it was someone who readmy book and decided to write it.
I honestly don't know.
But they wrote the nicest notesaying that I had a positive
impact on the people around meand they just wanted me to know
that.
And they were expressinggratitude for it.
And it's just powerful.
(21:30):
I mean, that could be anybody.
So imagine just knowing thatsomeone out in the world thinks
you're making a difference.
You don't need to know who itis.
It was enough to just reallygive me a great boost.
And I just I love those kindsof notes.
Now, it doesn't work in everysituation, but there are lots of
situations where anonymousnotes are powerful, and I and I
think it's I think it's reallygood.
Cheryl Fischer (21:49):
Jennifer, you're right.
It wouldn't work in everysituation.
But if you're listening to thisright now, think about what you
could do with anonymous notes.
And in fact, something evenmore cool is anonymous giving.
I've heard of people orderingpizzas and having them sent to
(22:10):
school secretaries to share orto the fire station.
I've heard of people leavingfive or $10 on in an envelope on
the windshield of somebody'scar.
I've heard of people stickingcash in diaper box at the store,
and then whoever buys ithappens upon it.
And I've of course paying forsomeone behind you in the
(22:33):
drive-thru, which I have done.
And I don't go todrive-throughs that much, but I
do try to do it when I go to adrive-thru, and it's such a
great feeling for me, for thegiver of the gift and the giver
of the gratitude.
That's sort of monetarygratitude in a way.
So that's anonymous.
It feels fantastic for thegiver, and I'm sure the writer
(22:56):
of those anonymous thank younotes felt fantastic as well.
And so maybe that's a fun wayfor you to add more gratitude
into your life is to do that onoccasion.
So, what I want you to get fromthis episode, here in the US,
we are in Thanksgiving week.
Thanksgiving was yesterday, ifyou're listening to this on the
(23:19):
day that it actually came out.
And so, of course, we'rethinking about giving thanks.
We're thinking about beinggrateful.
But it's not just this time ofyear that this matters.
You will change your basicresting state of mind if you can
develop a gratitude habit.
(23:41):
I think a gratitude habitsometimes gets make uh made fun
of as we're belittling thingsthat go wrong in life.
That's not it.
It's teaching our brains how tonotice good things happening
and feeling that, because thenyour brain learns that good
(24:01):
things can happen and do happenregularly.
And that is life-changing tolearn that.
And then going outward, asJennifer was talking about, and
getting into the habit ofthanking people and doing it
with a bit of effort and a bitof intention, writing it down.
And if you're still fightingthe I don't know about the
(24:24):
handwritten note thing, grabJennifer's book.
It will be at Cherylpfisher.comslash read.
It's called with gratitude, thepower of a thank you note.
Get the book, read it.
You can read it quickly.
She has got so many tips inthere for you about how to
actually write these notes.
(24:44):
And I'm going to give you aspoiler.
Putting thank you as the firsttwo words is really not the best
way.
Get creative, but they don'thave to be long.
Expressing gratitude to someonedoes not have to be heavy for
you, does not have to be supertime consuming, does not have to
be difficult and hard andchallenging.
(25:05):
Keep it lighter than that.
The goal is to notice goodthings happening in your life
and notice people doing goodthings and thank them and just
kind of spread it around alittle bit.
So I hope something in thisepisode lands for you.
I'm gonna say that the onething to remember from all of
(25:28):
this is that you have the powerto really have a positive impact
on people's lives, on your ownand on other people simply by
saying thank you or telling themwhy you appreciated something.
So give it a try, see how itfeels.
The upcoming private podcastseries for December is going to
(25:52):
be how to stop being your ownworst enemy.
So I feel like we might be ontheme for that.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, go to
CherylPFisher.com slash bonusepisodes.
And of course, make sure youhit the follow button.
Because next week's episode isthe next one in our ChangeMaker
series.
And I am interviewing the ownerof a Mahjong business here in
(26:16):
my local area.
And if you know Mahjong, it issweeping the nation, taking off
like crazy.
So we're gonna hear about herexperience with that.
And keep remembering, midlifeis your time to take just a
little bit better care ofyourself.
On the outside and the inside.
Just a little bit more caremakes a huge difference.
Have you ever noticed how fast your brain can
spiral into worst-case scenariomode?
The worries, the fears, all ofthat.
And you've probably heard thatpracticing gratitude is a way to
shift out of that, but maybe itseems overly simplified.
So by the end of this episode,you're gonna have a few simple
(00:21):
ways to practice gratitudeinternally and out towards
others that actually stick, evenif you're not a gratitude
journal person.
So let's talk about it.
Welcome to Mind Your Midlife,your go-to resource for
confidence and success, onethought at a time.
Unlike most advice out there,we believe that simply telling
(00:44):
you to believe in yourself orchange your habits isn't enough
to wake up excited about life orfeel truly confident in your
body.
Each week, you'll gainactionable strategies and, oh my
goodness, powerful insights tostop feeling stuck and start
loving your midlife.
This is the Mind Your Midlifepodcast.
(01:05):
Now, the first thing that Iwill say is that gratitude is a
practice.
It's not a personality trait.
You know how sometimes we say,I'm a warrior, that's me, that's
my personality.
Well, nobody's personality isI'm a gratituder.
Not that that's a word.
(01:27):
It's something that we practiceto get better at, and we do it
on purpose so that we can shiftthe way that we're thinking,
which shifts the results we'regetting in our lives.
So if it feels hard sometimesto be grateful for anything,
that doesn't mean you're anungrateful, snarky, difficult
(01:48):
person.
It means you're human.
So we just need to practice.
It's like strength training foryour attention and your focus.
And midlife isn't simple,right?
So this is going to be reallypowerful for you to learn to
practice gratitude.
And also there are going to bechallenging days.
(02:10):
Now, I'm joined today by a verygood friend of mine, Jennifer
Richwine.
We met in college many yearsago, and she is now the
executive director of the WakeWashington Center for Wake
Forest.
She is also the author of thebook With Gratitude: The Power
(02:30):
of a Thank You Note, which wasthe number one new release in
business etiquette when shereleased the book.
So I'm gonna bring her in a fewtimes during this episode to
share with us some thoughtsabout outbound, let's say,
outward gratitude, because it'snot just about saying it all
inside our heads.
(02:51):
I love the quote from GB Sternthat you include at the
beginning of the book, which issilent gratitude isn't much use
to anyone.
And I completely agree.
Expressing gratitude is reallypowerful.
What does that quote mean toyou?
Jennifer Richwine (03:08):
Well, obviously, that quote is very
important to me.
And, you know, I think it'sgreat to feel gratitude.
I think there are lots ofstudies out there that talk
about the more gratitude youfeel, the healthier you are, the
better your mental health, themore productive you are.
And so just feeling gratitudeis great.
But that's only a small pieceof the puzzle.
(03:29):
So expressing gratitude isactually the larger piece of
that in terms of mental healthand friendships and
relationships.
So if you feel gratitude, butyou're not expressing it to
somebody, why does it reallymatter?
So there are lots of timeswhere you'll hear people talk
about something they're reallygrateful for or somebody they're
really grateful for, butthey're not telling that person.
(03:51):
And so part of my goal with thebook is to really encourage
people to express that gratitudeto other people because that
changes lives.
And so someone simplyexpressing gratitude can really
make a difference, not just intheir day, but in their outlook,
how they see themselves, howmeaningful they feel like their
lives are.
So I think if you you feelgratitude, that's great, but
(04:12):
expressing it is really sort ofthe power punch.
Cheryl Fischer (04:15):
Okay, so that means we want to be doing both,
right?
We want the internal gratitudethat is healthy and powerful for
your brain.
We're gonna talk about how andwhy, and the external, where we
send this out to others and asJennifer said, potentially
change lives.
You've heard me say before thatour subconscious brains are
(04:40):
basically running the show.
And what does the subconsciousbrain mean?
Well, it's the part of yourbrain where all the things you
believe about the world, aboutyour faith, about what you can
and can't do, about results thatwill happen when you take any
particular action, and how yourbody runs, your heartbeat and
(05:00):
blood pumping and all of that.
It's all saved in there.
And you can visualize that bythinking about the last time
that you got in the car anddrove somewhere and you arrived
there and you can't remember howyou got there.
It's because your brain was incontrol, handling it.
Now, maybe that's not thesafest way to go, but that's
(05:21):
what happens when we do theserepetitive things.
Now, that brain also is incharge of keeping you safe,
keeping you alive.
And that is its most importantjob.
And so oftentimes keeping youalive, keeping you safe, means
hanging back from things,worrying about things, focusing
(05:44):
on anxiety or fear.
And so sometimes we get stuckin that loop with your brain
just trying to keep you safe.
Now, the cool part of gratitudeis that your brain can't
respond to gratitude and fear atthe same time.
So if we can figure out a wayto switch into being thankful,
(06:08):
being grateful, the fear willrecede.
Our brains just cannot focus onboth of those at the same time.
So that's exciting.
That's really good.
And as we mentioned a minuteago, it's really healthy for us
to get out of that fear statebecause it's gonna calm your
(06:29):
nervous system.
You're gonna get back in theparasympathetic nervous system,
and your body is gonna be ableto run all its processes as it
is supposed to do, all goodthings.
And how do we do it?
Creating a practice of what I'mgonna call internal gratitude,
(06:49):
which is the thinking about itpart and feeling it part.
What we need is to create ahabit.
And maybe what you need is alittle trigger where you get
into bed at night and you have alittle notebook sitting next to
your bed and you write down oneor two or three things you're
(07:10):
grateful for.
Even better, write down onething you're grateful for and a
win from that day, somethingthat went well.
You're practicing focusing onthat before you go to sleep.
Or maybe it's something thatyou like to do in the morning,
kind of a miracle morning typething.
Or maybe you have a sticky noteon your computer that says
(07:34):
thank you or grateful.
And that reminds you to pauseand think about it and think,
wow, my coffee tasted reallygood today.
Wow, my husband unloaded thedishwasher, my daughter laughed
this morning at breakfast.
Such tiny, simple things.
And it's just picking a time ofday where it feels good to do
(07:57):
that and then creating a habit.
Because you've heard me talkabout glimmers before.
It's very similar.
Concept.
We're training our brains tonotice these things that we can
be grateful for.
And the noticing is what wewant to get better at because
then we're gonna notice more,we're gonna notice more, and
we're gonna notice more.
Now let's switch back toexternal gratitude.
(08:20):
It's really about yourintention when you are thanking
someone and expressinggratitude.
Jennifer Richwine (09:02):
I'm a little bit of a stickler on the
handwritten thanking note.
That is why I wrote the book.
I do feel strongly about ahandwritten note, which I'll go
into in a minute as to why.
But I will just say expressinggratitude of any kind is better
than not.
So verbalizing it to someoneface to face is important.
If you must send an email, thatis also a way to express
(09:25):
gratitude.
And it's better than notexpressing gratitude.
I'll tell you why I like thehandwritten thank you.
Number one, it is not verycommon right now.
And from a actual, from aprofessional standpoint, you
would not believe the number ofpeople who comment on the fact
that our students that are herein this program write
handwritten thank you notes totheir mentors and their uh
people that manage them whilethey're here for the semester
(09:47):
when they're interning.
It is something that stands outin today's world because very
few people are doing it.
And we actually hear stories ofpeople getting a job offer
because when all things wereequal, our students are the ones
writing thank you notes.
So I do think it stands out.
So for professional reasons, Ithink it's great.
But part of it is just me,think about it, Cheryl.
If you open up an email, youprobably read it pretty quickly.
(10:11):
There you know that someonecould have written it very
quickly.
You may not think much aboutthe fact you probably are gonna
be like, oh, that's really nicethat they wrote me a note of
gratitude in an email.
You're not gonna get upset bythat.
But if they take the time tohave note cards, to handwrite a
note, have a stamp, put it inthe mail, they're going to have
put more thought into it.
So it's probably gonna be abetter note no matter what.
(10:33):
There are probably not gonna beas many errors in it because in
emails, people use shortlanguage, they don't use
complete sentences.
It's just a more thoughtfulthing.
And I don't know that anybodysits down and says, oh, they sat
down and wrote me a handwrittennote, but it is instinctual
that you are feeling thatgratitude more because someone
took the time to handwrite it.
It's also great because if Iget a really nice thank you note
(10:55):
on an email, I will print itout and save it.
But most people don't do that,and so it's it's ephemeral, it's
gone.
Whereas handwritten thank younotes, I go into people's
offices all the time and theyhave handwritten notes taped to
their boards.
I have people who have framedhandwritten notes.
My mother keeps her favoritethank you notes in her Bible.
So I do think it needs more.
Cheryl Fischer (11:14):
So we're we're aware that we want to create a
habit and we want to create thisinternal habit of noticing,
maybe jotting down, thinkingthrough these items that we're
grateful for, and an externalhabit.
And you heard Jennifer say thattaking a minute and handwriting
is even better.
That intention is reallyrecognized by the recipient of
(11:37):
the note, and it means you'respending a little more time with
gratitude as you do it.
So, what if life is not goingsuper perfect for you right now?
And we're in midlife.
So there are challenges, thereare changes, there are tough
days, and I get it because Ihave that too.
(11:57):
And so we sometimes worry thatif we start to be grateful for
all the things and tell everyonethank you and write notes and
everything, then it's almostlike we're accepting things as
they are now, and maybe we'reokay with it not changing.
That's not that's not true atall.
(12:20):
I used to think that beinggrateful for something meant
that I was saying, this is fine,I don't need more.
That's not what we're saying.
Gratitude is about learning tocontinue to appreciate things,
learning to notice the goodthings, and learning to share
(12:40):
those good things with otherpeople when we're doing this
external outward gratitude aswell.
So if you are struggling, maybeyour gratitude sounds a little
different.
Maybe you're doing a careerpivot and you're thinking to
yourself, I'm grateful for theskills I have and I'm ready for
what's next.
Or if you're having some bodystruggles, I mean, goodness,
(13:04):
aren't we?
You can be grateful for whatyour body does for you every
day.
And you can say, I'm caring formy body well now in a
relationship.
You can be grateful for what'sgoing well and you can be
looking forward to it gettingbetter.
So think of this as a way tonotice the good, calm your body,
(13:25):
share with other people so thatthey can have that same
experience.
And and it doesn't have to bethat life is perfect.
And sometimes gratitude canreach across the years.
If you are rememberingsomething that really meant
something to you, express it.
(13:47):
I think for some of us, once wedecide to do something like
this, we say, okay, she's right,she makes great points, we're
gonna start doing thank younotes, we're gonna get in the
habit.
Now we start to make a bunch ofrules for ourselves.
And you actually touched onthis earlier a little bit.
If we don't send the note bythis date, it's not worth it,
(14:10):
it's too late, we have to do itthis certain way, things like
that.
The question is then, what isthe best time to write a thank
you note?
Jennifer Richwine (14:18):
Well, I love that question because it comes
up quite a bit.
And I do think people often, ifthey procrastinate, then they
feel like, well, it's just toolate.
So the example that I sort ofalluded to earlier was with a
student who was coming in as afreshman.
And she said, you know, when Iwas looking at Wake Forest
several years ago, a friend ofmy mother's invited me to come
(14:40):
stay with her in Winston-Salemwhile I looked at Wake Forest.
And while I was there, she hadgone by herself to her mother's
friends.
And that person gave her a lotof great advice as she was
thinking about colleges and howto think about which college she
should attend and just was veryhelpful for her.
And she said, I never thankedher.
And now it's three years later,and it just feels like it's too
(15:03):
late.
And I said, Well, actually,it's perfect timing because here
you are at Wake Forest.
And I bet a lot of what shetold you is what led you here.
So now that you're here in yourfirst week of freshman year,
now's a great time to write herand tell her that you're here on
campus and how much you enjoyedthe conversation and how
meaningful it was and how youstill considered her advice as
you were applying to colleges.
And I think it's perfecttiming.
(15:24):
So now look, if someone gaveyou a gift, it really is nice to
get it out as quick as you can,in part because they may not
know that you've got it.
I'm not being critical when I'mthinking, okay, they haven't
written me a thank you note, I'mmore just wanting to make sure
they got it.
But but I know it, I know if Iask if they got it, they're
gonna think I'm asking because Iwant a thank you note, and that
that actually isn't it.
So if someone gave yousomething or did something, and
(15:45):
you need to write it as soon asyou can just so they know that
they received it.
But but it's never too late.
And in fact, I think some ofthe best thank you notes are the
ones that come way, way, waydown the road.
And really, because um, one ofthe things I talk about in the
book is that writing a thank younote as perfunctory action is
good and better than not, butreally thank you notes are more
most powerful when you'rewriting about the impact of a
(16:08):
kindness or a gift or just theimpact someone's had on your
life.
So I love having people do thelittle exercise of think of
someone or a few someones inyour life, maybe way back in
your life, who did somethingthat still resonates with you
and has had an impact on you.
And just see what happens whenyou write them a thank you note.
(16:28):
What it tells people is theyreally did have a lasting
impact, that they have a legacythat lives on 10 years, 15
years, 20 years down the road.
You still think about somethingthey did for you, or you still
think about something they saidto you, or you still think about
a way that they positivelyimpacted your life.
That's powerful that you getthose notes.
So I say it's never too late.
Cheryl Fischer (16:50):
The other thing about gratitude, whether it's
internal or whether it'sexternal, outward to someone
else, is that it's helping us tobe more present.
Because when you are focused onappreciating what is happening
to you right at that moment orwhat someone has done for you,
it brings you back to thepresent moment.
(17:10):
And that's what we mean,really.
That's all we mean when we saymindfulness.
It's getting, it's slowing downall the blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah going on inyour head and focusing on right
now.
And sometimes you can do thatwith meditation, you can do it
with a five senses, you know,notice what do I hear, see,
smell, taste right now, all ofthat.
(17:31):
And you can just do it bylooking for something that
you're grateful for right now,in this moment.
And it teaches your body thatyou're safe.
And when we express thisgratitude, we express what we
appreciate.
It just lands so deeply withother people.
(17:51):
So what if you are thankingsomeone for simply doing
ordinary good stuff?
Jennifer Richwine (18:00):
There are a lot of people on our campus, and
a lot of people and many jobsthat have sort of behind the
scenes work, but their work iscritical.
And it is astounding whathappens when you express
gratitude to people for doingtheir jobs and how much meaning
it gives to them and does makethem feel like they're making
everybody, everybody wants tofeel like they're making a
difference.
And yet there are a lot of jobswhere people only hear from
(18:24):
other people when something goeswrong, especially customer
service jobs.
They only hear the bad stuff,they never hear the good stuff.
So I love taking notes with mewhen I travel.
I'll write thank you notes topeople who just got me extra
soap in a hotel room or um werejust really pleasant to me when
I checked in at the airportcounter because a lot of times
those people are not as pleasantas we would want them to be.
(18:46):
When people do that kind ofstuff, I just love to say thank
you.
And I think it just makes a bigdifference for them and knowing
that the work they do matters.
Cheryl Fischer (18:54):
I think that's such a great point.
Why aren't we more focused onthanking people for just being
great on an everyday basis?
Maybe that's something for youand for me to focus on after
listening to this episode.
Because there are a lot ofpeople out there that are, I'm
gonna say, unsung heroes, right?
(19:16):
They're doing their thing, it'smaking a difference, but they
never hear.
And what if you really want toexpress gratitude?
You know it'll make adifference, but you're thinking
about doing it anonymously.
What about that?
Worth it?
Good idea?
Let's see.
Jennifer Richwine (19:36):
So I do talk about this in the book.
I think anonymous thank younotes are absolute magic.
And people are reluctant to doit, and then maybe it's because
they think they need to berecognized or they need the
person to know it was them thatwrote it.
But it is such a gift when youget an anonymous thank you note.
So one that's in the book andone that's not one.
(19:56):
I I gotta note it was highevent season where I was
literally working around theclock.
I do not think I think it wasdark when I got to work and dark
when I left to go home formultiple days on end, and and I
actually was exhausted and notfeeling like I was making much
of an impact and wasn't sure whyI was in the job I was in.
And I came in one morning andthere was a piece of white eight
(20:20):
and a half by 11 copy papershoved under my door.
And on it was a handwrittennote for my students who did not
put their name.
They said they were writing onbehalf of other students.
They said they knew that I didnot get a lot of recognition for
the work I did, but that theevents that I worked on and the
speakers I brought made such adifference in their experience
at Wake Forest and how gratefulthey were that I was doing the
(20:42):
job I was doing.
That was incredible.
I mean, that was I have no tothis day, I still don't know who
it was.
But what I did was I walkedaround campus for the next week
and a half, thinking everystudent could have been that
person that wrote me that note.
It's amazing how powerful thatis.
And really, just maybe twomonths ago, I received a note in
the mail at the office fromagain, someone I do not know who
(21:03):
it is.
The return address was from astate I don't recognize.
Some, I mean, I recognize thedate.
I didn't recognize anybody fromthe state.
Cheryl Fischer (21:09):
I was hoping.
Jennifer Richwine (21:10):
I mean, we did go to college.
So maybe somebody put it in themail somewhere they don't live.
I don't know.
Maybe it was someone who readmy book and decided to write it.
I honestly don't know.
But they wrote the nicest notesaying that I had a positive
impact on the people around meand they just wanted me to know
that.
And they were expressinggratitude for it.
And it's just powerful.
(21:30):
I mean, that could be anybody.
So imagine just knowing thatsomeone out in the world thinks
you're making a difference.
You don't need to know who itis.
It was enough to just reallygive me a great boost.
And I just I love those kindsof notes.
Now, it doesn't work in everysituation, but there are lots of
situations where anonymousnotes are powerful, and I and I
think it's I think it's reallygood.
Cheryl Fischer (21:49):
Jennifer, you're right.
It wouldn't work in everysituation.
But if you're listening to thisright now, think about what you
could do with anonymous notes.
And in fact, something evenmore cool is anonymous giving.
I've heard of people orderingpizzas and having them sent to
(22:10):
school secretaries to share orto the fire station.
I've heard of people leavingfive or $10 on in an envelope on
the windshield of somebody'scar.
I've heard of people stickingcash in diaper box at the store,
and then whoever buys ithappens upon it.
And I've of course paying forsomeone behind you in the
(22:33):
drive-thru, which I have done.
And I don't go todrive-throughs that much, but I
do try to do it when I go to adrive-thru, and it's such a
great feeling for me, for thegiver of the gift and the giver
of the gratitude.
That's sort of monetarygratitude in a way.
So that's anonymous.
It feels fantastic for thegiver, and I'm sure the writer
(22:56):
of those anonymous thank younotes felt fantastic as well.
And so maybe that's a fun wayfor you to add more gratitude
into your life is to do that onoccasion.
So, what I want you to get fromthis episode, here in the US,
we are in Thanksgiving week.
Thanksgiving was yesterday, ifyou're listening to this on the
(23:19):
day that it actually came out.
And so, of course, we'rethinking about giving thanks.
We're thinking about beinggrateful.
But it's not just this time ofyear that this matters.
You will change your basicresting state of mind if you can
develop a gratitude habit.
(23:41):
I think a gratitude habitsometimes gets make uh made fun
of as we're belittling thingsthat go wrong in life.
That's not it.
It's teaching our brains how tonotice good things happening
and feeling that, because thenyour brain learns that good
(24:01):
things can happen and do happenregularly.
And that is life-changing tolearn that.
And then going outward, asJennifer was talking about, and
getting into the habit ofthanking people and doing it
with a bit of effort and a bitof intention, writing it down.
And if you're still fightingthe I don't know about the
(24:24):
handwritten note thing, grabJennifer's book.
It will be at Cherylpfisher.comslash read.
It's called with gratitude, thepower of a thank you note.
Get the book, read it.
You can read it quickly.
She has got so many tips inthere for you about how to
actually write these notes.
(24:44):
And I'm going to give you aspoiler.
Putting thank you as the firsttwo words is really not the best
way.
Get creative, but they don'thave to be long.
Expressing gratitude to someonedoes not have to be heavy for
you, does not have to be supertime consuming, does not have to
be difficult and hard andchallenging.
(25:05):
Keep it lighter than that.
The goal is to notice goodthings happening in your life
and notice people doing goodthings and thank them and just
kind of spread it around alittle bit.
So I hope something in thisepisode lands for you.
I'm gonna say that the onething to remember from all of
(25:28):
this is that you have the powerto really have a positive impact
on people's lives, on your ownand on other people simply by
saying thank you or telling themwhy you appreciated something.
So give it a try, see how itfeels.
The upcoming private podcastseries for December is going to
(25:52):
be how to stop being your ownworst enemy.
So I feel like we might be ontheme for that.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, go to
CherylPFisher.com slash bonusepisodes.
And of course, make sure youhit the follow button.
Because next week's episode isthe next one in our ChangeMaker
series.
And I am interviewing the ownerof a Mahjong business here in
(26:16):
my local area.
And if you know Mahjong, it issweeping the nation, taking off
like crazy.
So we're gonna hear about herexperience with that.
And keep remembering, midlifeis your time to take just a
little bit better care ofyourself.
On the outside and the inside.
Just a little bit more caremakes a huge difference.
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