May 7, 2025 • 48 mins
I would love to hear from you!
Licensed therapist Solomon Richburg shares powerful insights on men's mental health, breaking down the barriers that prevent men from seeking support and setting healthy boundaries. We explore why healthy social connections are the foundation of mental wellness and how small steps can lead to profound change.
• Boundary setting is crucial yet challenging for men who often default to people-pleasing
• Creating solutions rather than just saying "no" can strengthen relationships while protecting your needs
• The "pull yourself up by bootstraps" mentality damages men's ability to process emotions and seek help
• Men's anxiety often manifests differently through isolation and projection rather than traditional worry
• Healthy social support systems are more powerful than therapy for maintaining mental wellness
• Small steps like reaching out to one trusted friend can begin breaking patterns of isolation
• Being comfortable expressing feelings doesn't happen overnight—start with gratitude practices
• The key to better mental health lies in connection, not isolation
Take that first small step today. Reach out to one trusted friend, practice expressing gratitude, or try a simple mindfulness exercise. You don't need to take giant leaps—just start somewhere.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Welcome everyone.
I'm Nate Shearer, your host,and this is MindForce, the
podcast.
That's all about diving intolove, life and learning.
Here your mind matters.
Today we have Solomon Richburgand today we'll be talking about
boundary setting, men's anxietyand other men's mental health
issues.
But let's start with the basicstuff the four W's, the who,
(00:44):
what, why and where.
Solomon, who are you?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, nate, thank you for bringing me on.
I am just a guy that'soriginally from Queens, new York
, that moved down to the sunnystate of Florida with a
beautiful wife and two, about tohave three kids in May, and I'm
a licensed therapist that'sjust here to help people, help
men move on, become the betterthem, the better men that they
(01:10):
want to be, and I'm just heresharing my gifts to the world.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Awesome.
So I think that touches on whatyou do and where you are in
Florida.
Why are you here today,specifically?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
day specifically.
Well, I actually saw your, your, some of your, your tiktoks on
on the mind force and I reallyliked what I saw and I said to
myself you know, let me, let mejust uh share that encouragement
like, hey, you got a good thinggoing on.
Uh, keep at it.
I think that's when you're likeI bet you want to be on the
show.
And I was taken aback there, Isaid, hmm, I kind of do so.
(01:52):
You know that's when we wereable to connect, but, yeah, I
truly came on the show.
So that one to support the showbut two to send a message about
mental health and for men'shealth and boundaries, because I
think in the society that welive in, it is something that is
a bit missing and I think weneed to emphasize it more,
(02:12):
especially for men.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It's so interesting how the universe is such a
powerful thing.
Just today at work I work inthe medical section, so I work
for the Surgeon General at mybase and a person stopped by and
they wanted to set up a likesmall group type of brief,
educational, small group typething for men.
It was interesting.
He recently was diagnosed withcancer in his colon so he had to
(02:36):
have a chunk of his colon cutout and then piece back together
and he was talking about howmen have such a difficult time
with colonoscopies and thesedifferent things that we need
and we should probably get after, but we don't want to talk
about it.
And so he wanted to start witha brief and try to get people
more used to it and then also beable to break and talk about it
and make it more normal.
(02:57):
And I love that because that'sone of the points of the show.
Here is breaking stigmas andmaking conversation more normal
about things.
Here is breaking stigmas andmaking conversation more normal
about things, and so I'm so gladyou're on the show and it's
awesome that that just happened.
Kind of funny where he wastalking about how all these
different things are on the risein men specifically.
So a lot of negative healthconcerns sound like it was on
(03:18):
the rise.
He was dropping differentpercentages and things like that
.
But he wanted to share hisstory.
I'm going to try to get thatword out.
So I think that's the way wereally get after this, because
I've really tried to think of,like, how you fix mental health
and working through mentalfitness.
I know it's an ongoing thing,but I think the biggest thing is
relatable, right, like storiesand connection.
That's where it all comes from.
(03:38):
I think we often think woe isme, I'm the only one going
through it, isolation and thingslike that.
But if you know other peopleare going through it, I feel
like that connection's built andthings are a lot different.
But let's jump into the warm-upand get things rolling, based
on the three pillars that youhave.
What's one boundary you've setrecently that has significantly
(03:59):
improved your life?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
That's a very good question, and the boundary that
I put for my life recently isabout being comfortable saying
no, and being comfortable sayingno for people that that's going
to be a burden for me if Ipursue it.
Recently there was a, you know,a person of mine, a good friend
(04:23):
of mine, that was strugglingwith some finances and I said to
myself, wow, this isunfortunate.
But one thing about boundariesis that sometimes when you've
struggled with boundaries in thepast, those past events become
your current events and it canmisconstrued someone that's
(04:43):
seriously in need event and itcould misconstrued someone
that's seriously in need.
So I had to be mindful of thesituation that every boundary is
different for every scenario.
So for this person that youknow that needed that support, I
was able to help that person.
But keep in mind of my ownlimitations, because sometimes
when we set a boundary forsomebody, there tends to be a
(05:03):
fear of will this personcontinue to do this?
Well, is this going to be anongoing habit?
Am I going to be comfortablesaying no?
And you know, one thing that Iwas able to do, nate, was to set
a boundary by being able toempathize and support that
person.
Empathize and support thatperson but at the same time set
(05:25):
a limit for myself helping thatperson but not crossing the
boundary where I'm giving morethan what I can truly afford
myself.
So I think that is somethingthat many people also struggle
to, especially with finances.
That's a big one for people.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, I think that's a really good reminder of, you
know, thinking of not doingcookie cutter solutions.
I think a lot of times we wanteverything to look the same for
some reason, I guess becauseit's easier, maybe, and so you
want that solution.
Hey, I use that one time, I canuse it again, and so I'm glad
you pointed that out.
You know, different person,different situation.
You know sit, weigh, sleep onit, figure out what that right
(06:06):
course of action is and then getafter it.
I think that's a good reminder.
You can't, you know, always usethe same boundary the same
thing every time.
The next question I had for youis how do you personally unwind
or manage stress during aparticularly challenging day?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's a very good one.
I love it because I alsoemphasize on self-care and for
me, one thing I do in themorning I exercise.
I exercise in the morning asmuch as I can 6 am, At 5.30 am.
I wake up, 6 o'clock, that'swhen I start exercising.
I have a little waist in mygarage and that's something that
I do.
(06:42):
But also what I do at night issomething like this it's a sound
ball and I would use that as away to meditate, and I have a
few of them, and I would use asound ball as something to help
me be mindful and present atnight, Because sometimes I will
get anxious at night, you know,ruminating on the things of the
(07:03):
day.
The sound bowl helps me bemindful and present and help me
just focus, go to sleep at night.
So those are the two self-careroutines that I use for myself
and I think it is very helpfulfor me and I actually encourage
other people to give it a shot.
If you haven't done sound bowlwork, Nate, I encourage you to,
(07:24):
because it's good stuff, manyeah.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So I gotta ask a question on that, because on the
show the two reoccurring thingsare journaling and meditation,
and so I gotta ask every personI hope it's not redundant, but I
don't think it is becauseeveryone does things a little
bit differently but for someoneout there that's listening, that
doesn't do any meditation, howdo you go from not doing it to
doing it?
Because I think a lot of peopleespecially talking about men
(07:48):
right, I don't want to sit onthe ground, cross my legs, this
is foo-foo, this is, you know,this is, you know, shippy stuff.
Can you kind of walk us throughhow someone can integrate and
start to ease into that from notdoing it?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, I mean, meditation is about being in the
present.
That's what mindfulness isabout.
Even when I think of mind force, I think of a present force
that you're here in the moment.
Mindfulness and meditation doesnot always have to be, it
doesn't have to be a salvo.
It doesn't have to be yousitting on a mat doing yoga.
It doesn't have to be a salvo.
It doesn't have to be yousitting on a mat doing yoga.
(08:24):
It doesn't have to be any ofthat.
It can be simply sitting insilence and just being attuned
to yourself.
It can be journaling, right.
It can be that being present,writing what we call gratitude,
doing a gratitude journal andbeing mindful and present of the
things that you're grateful forthat can be something that can
(08:47):
bring you into the present andyou can meditate on that.
Just remind yourself of thethings that you're grateful for
during the day.
So for anyone that's beginning,for men that's beginning with
this, I would say simplest thingis just name three things that
you're grateful for and resonateon that.
That is the simplest way ofgoing about it and then from
(09:08):
there, if you want to trysomething more challenging, you
can do a seven bowl or you cando some deep breathing
techniques.
But that's that's basically it.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That's that's the beginning I love that too,
because I think a lot of times,and maybe even more on the men's
side, I think as humans ingeneral, but more on the men's
side I think as humans ingeneral, but more on the men's
side we want the first thing.
I feel like a lot of times it'dbe this heavy lift, this
Herculean effort, this hugeproject.
And so I love that you bring upthree things, very basic, and
(09:37):
so anything can be that firststep just putting your shoes out
to run in the morning, puttingyour clothes out, like start
with the little things.
You know a sentence in thatjournal, and then the next time
it's a paragraph and things likethat.
I know atomic habits.
You know James Clear.
He talks about that.
There's a couple of differentpeople, but I think that's super
important.
Or the the Navy guy Admiral,maybe that you know, make your
(09:59):
bed in the morning, start withan accomplishment and get things
rolling.
I think those are all reallygood things and I just a good
reminder.
I think people know.
But just to reiterate again,like get some small wins, like
don't worry about how big it iswhere you're at, you know just
start with something small ones.
The last question I got in thewarm-up.
This one should be fun.
(10:20):
What's a misconception aboutmen's health that you wish more
people understood?
What's the big myth?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Mental health, that we don't have feelings, that we
don't have bad days, that wecan't cry, that we can't be
angry, that we can't do any ofthese things.
I think that's the big mythhere.
There's so many with men'shealth, but I would say the
biggest part is that we don'tneed support.
I would say that's probably thebiggest one, and we all, as
(10:51):
human beings, need that.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So where do you think that comes from?
I mean, pull yourself up byyour bootstraps and hold it in
and things like that when I meanhave you done any classes on
history?
Or where that actually comesfrom.
Oh, we're.
I mean, have you done any likeclasses on history?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
or like where that actually comes from, how we're
going there this is a warm-up,right.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, we've transitioned from the fun.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Now we're getting into it okay, well, I mean the
pull yourself up by thebootstraps.
That's a philosophical conceptthat we have on, believing that
we have to just suck it up, notallow our emotions get in the
way and just do it.
And um, that's okay for acertain extent, for a certain
(11:34):
time, maybe, a certain time in asituation and, yeah, I would
say, maybe this is a baby boomerthing, but, but, to be honest,
I think this is a thing thatevery generation did struggle.
We've had multiple um tragediesthat have occurred.
Um, I mean me being amillennial.
(11:56):
I mean I grew up, uh, born inthe late 80s, grew up in the 90s
.
I lived in New York in 2001.
The minute I say that, I'm surethat rang the bell in your mind
what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Where you were exact moment when you found out.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
When I found out, absolutely Even then, there was
a concept of we gotta just keepit moving, we got to do
something.
We got to, you know, notresonate and just do something
about it.
And it's a tough one, nate,because pulling ourselves by the
(12:36):
bootstraps.
I think it really goes back tothe philosophy, especially in
Western culture, that, you know,let's not focus on our emotions
, let's just do the job, and Ithink it has its place.
But I think what happens withthat?
When we take that energy andfocus on just doing the job,
well, guess what?
(12:57):
The dust settles and you stillhave to process that and that
energy is there.
And what happens to many peoplewith that?
They don't know what to do withthat energy and it's displaced
in not so great places.
And this is where trauma comesfrom.
This is how trauma really comesinto the people.
(13:17):
Trauma is actually indeed thatdispersive energy that comes
from the event that gravitatesto a person.
That person is not able toprocess that energy that comes
from the event, like a caraccident.
That energy, that impact thathappens, that we get from that.
That's what resonates withpeople.
(13:41):
That's why some people can copewith it and other people can't,
and this is why we as a societycannot just accept that one
person could just pull up by thebootstraps because that person
could do it and the other personcan't do it.
That other person is not rightor wrong for that, but we live
(14:01):
in a society where we have to,everyone has to be the same, and
that's not true.
Nobody's the same.
We, we all come from differentexperiences.
We all come from differentparts of the world, different
timelines, and we, we need torespect each other more on that.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
So yeah, yeah.
So it's a good reminder too.
I know I lost my dad a fewyears ago and, you know, going
through the stages of grief andthings like that, it's just so
interesting between you know, mylittle brother, my little
sister, my mom, me All thosewere, you know, completely
different.
You know we were all atdifferent stages of life,
different things going on, andso I think a lot of times, going
(14:41):
back to the cookie cutter, alot of people want it to look
the same, like, oh well, thatworked for him, it should work
for her and should work for you.
Like, everyone processes anddoes all those things
differently.
But I do find it interesting onthe here and now, though,
because I feel like currently,we want our answers instantly
because we want to Googlewhatever it is.
We want our food instantlybecause we're going to go
(15:02):
through the drive-thru thingsfaster, and you know yesterday
and all those things.
So it kind of makes sense withwhere we're at is like you just
deal with the here and nowbecause it's in front of you and
just don't worry about the rest, even though you're going to
burn out, you're going to haveproblems later, but the way that
we seem to process thingscurrently is just what's in
front of you, so it almost seemslike like it lines up just do,
(15:23):
do, do and then deal with thefallout later, which in no way
saying is right, but it doesseem to make sense with how we
are.
Want things here and now,that's awesome.
Well, that rounds up the warmup.
I want to see if you have aquestion for me before we go
into your three pillars.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, I mean, I do want to ask you as far as your
feelings on just boundaries hasthere been a situation where
you've had a boundary?
That's been something that youthought of as a challenge for
yourself, that you had toovercome?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
not great.
So I don't know, back to mychildhood I probably need to,
you know, go through counselingand kind of process some of that
.
I grew up with just my mom fora lot of it.
So it was a lot of me and heragainst the world.
And so I think at this point,you know I do a lot of people
pleasing and agreeing and yesingand I need to do a much better
job of the no, like you hadmentioned, like being okay and
comfortable with that.
But I always want to besuccessful and do well and, you
know, do good things and so if Isay yes every time, people will
(16:30):
be happy and like me and thingslike that.
So I definitely struggle withthat.
I wish I did a better job ofthat.
Maybe we'll have to have asidebar and also figure out how
to process a little bit better,but I would love to, you know,
set better boundaries and thingslike that.
There's only so much you can do,there's only so much time in
the day.
I'd like to think I'm getting alittle bit better as I grow in
(16:54):
rank, you know, I think it feelsa little bit more comfortable
because you feel like you havethe title or whatever to back it
up and probably should havedone it, you know, a while ago
and it probably didn't need torely on that.
But it does feel a little bitmore comfortable when you know
the more you do it and the moreexperience.
So I think that's one of thosethings like practice makes
perfect, unless you just havethe gift and it just makes sense
from the beginning.
But I think you would have toexercise right and, you know,
put some practice in.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Absolutely you do.
It takes time, it takespractice.
Do you have tips on how to easeinto that instead of just
(17:39):
jumping in and bounderingeverything?
What type of person I am?
Do I have porous boundaries,unless somebody that is quick to
say yes to everything.
Maybe you're someone that'srigid, that's actually really
quick to say no.
Or maybe you do have healthyboundaries that you don't know
about, and that's another thingis that people think that they
have terrible boundaries, butthey actually have healthy
(18:01):
boundaries, but it all dependson the person, the situation,
mind you, when it comes toboundaries but they actually
have healthy boundaries, but itall depends on the person and
the situation.
Mind you, when it comes toboundaries, it's a thin line
when it comes to boundaries andassertions, because when you're
having healthy boundaries, youtend to be assertive, not
aggressive, notpassive-aggressive, but
assertive.
It's a huge concept and thatitself is a huge breakdown, and
(18:25):
one I happen to share.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Okay, yeah, that's perfect.
So your first of the threepillars is boundary setting, so
this is a perfect segue.
My favorite thing on the showis stories.
I think we were, you know,hardwired to convey information
through stories.
You know it's back to thecaveman days and things like
that.
So can you share a story of atime when setting a boundary
transformed a relationship orsituation in your life?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, I mean this goes back to what I was talking
about earlier, about my friendwith the finances.
And you know we and we're goodfriends, you know, still to this
day and and really if I wasaggressive on the situation it
could have damaged it, it couldhave damaged that relationship.
Or if I was passive-aggressiveand just gave more than what I
(19:12):
wanted to do, it would have hurtit, not immediately, but in the
long run it would have.
And then that's the differencebetween all these type of
boundaries that when you haveporous boundaries or if you have
very rigid, harsh boundaries,it could do damage in its own
(19:34):
way.
It's just one is longer thanthe other.
Going back to that, I mean youknow I've learned that in that
situation that I have to becomfortable given of a
negotiator than what you think.
Sometimes you have to just askyourself okay, I might not be
(20:01):
able to give you this amount ofmoney, but how about I give you
this and then maybe find someoneelse that can give the rest and
also set expectations as well.
There was a guy I think theShark Tank guy.
They call him Mr Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, yeah, that guy.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
What?
What is his name?
I forget his name.
He's the.
I think he's canadian, but hehe's.
Yeah, they call him mrwonderful, but this guy is is a
uh, kevin o'leary kevin o'leary.
There we go, that guy, and Iremember watching an interview
on him and he was talking,talking about how he has family
members that ask him for moneyall the time I mean rightfully.
(20:43):
So I know, if I was a relativeof him I would probably ask for
a few here and there.
Right, and you know, what hewould do is that he would set
this boundary.
Which I thought was awesome isthat he would set this boundary,
which I thought was awesome.
He would tell the personbecause he has the money, he
wants to get it, but he don'twant to be this returning bank
(21:08):
loan that people come and therewill be easy acceptance.
He would say, okay, I'm notgoing to loan you the money, I'm
going to gift you the money.
I'm only going to gift it toyou one time and that's it.
I don't need the money back, Idon't need anything, I'm just
going to gift it to you, butthat's the only time you're
going to ask me for money, andthat's it.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Do something good with it.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, right.
So it's almost like you're agenie, right, you're giving this
one wish, but after that onewish, that's it.
And I thought I thought thatwas pretty cool because he, he
was setting a boundary where youknow what I'm gonna help you
out, like, I'm gonna help youout in your situation, I'm not
gonna just say no and it's okayto say no too, by the way.
(21:49):
But he, he didn't want to dothat.
He said that you know what, I'mjust going to help you in this
situation, but don't expect meto give you more money again.
And I think when you put it outin that sense, I think people
would understand and you'resetting that boundary, and I
think it's very respectable.
(22:11):
So I used that as an example.
As you know, my friend thatneeded that, that was in that
situation and I said you knowwhat I'll help you out, you know
in this case, because you knowI can't give this amount of
money, but I can give you this.
I'm comfortable with this andI'm not expecting anything back.
I don't want it back.
(22:31):
I'm going to give it as a gift,as a friend, and I felt
comfortable with that.
I felt really comfortable withit because I'm helping someone
that's in need because, hey,we've all been there, I'm sure
at least once we've had thosetypes of circumstances, if not
financially, probably otherthings and it's good to give
someone a hand when we can.
(22:52):
So I think that was a prettysignificant example, at least
currently in my life, andsomething that's really
significant in me.
You know currently that, I feel, was a true example of boundary
setting.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I think that's a perfect example too, because you
had mentioned you don't want tobe the person that always says
no, you don't want to be theperson that always says yes, and
then you need the boundary andexpectations, so that kind of
fits all those.
You say yes, you're thegenerous person, the person who
can't complain because you camethrough, but you have the
expectation, the boundary, thatthat's the one and only, and so
you've kind of you know, checkedall those things.
(23:27):
I think it's a great example.
So earlier you had mentioned itmight work for the short term,
but over time it's going toerode that trust and things like
that.
So why do you think boundarysetting is so critical for
personal and professional growth?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Simply because, as humans, we are going to go
through trials and tribulations,and situations will come and
arise.
We are just.
It's so easy for us to go topeople that we're comfortable
with versus people that we'renot.
And that's why it's importantto be comfortable saying no when
(24:03):
you can, but also beingcomfortable creating solutions
for people.
And that's why I say thatsaying no is okay, but if you
can help the solution somehow,maybe that'll be even better.
That can be something that canleave a true impact in your
(24:23):
relationship with people,Because sometimes no, I was
going to say some go ahead, goahead.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
No, you can go.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
No, I was going to say sometimes the situation is
deeper than what it shows on thesurface, that's all.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, that's definitely true and I think it
helps build up some of thattrust too.
So I think a lot of times wethink no automatically would
shut things down.
But if you think about it fromthe other side, if you're the
person that agrees to everythingbut you only come through on
half the things, that all of asudden it's like I don't even
know if they're really gonnacome through.
They just kind of agree toeverything.
So if you have the yes and no,you have that mixture of the
(24:59):
things that you can actually do.
Then when your yes comesthrough, you know, you know it
can bank on that yes, which Iguess goes back to like the boy
cried wolf and things like that.
So I think it's good.
You know, in a certain case Idon't do a great job, but I can
definitely see like where thatwould be beneficial.
And the last question we havein this pillar is what advice do
you have for men who dostruggle to set and maintain
(25:21):
healthy boundaries?
So so me Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Well, it starts with being comfortable, saying you
know, the first thing you can dois you can, even if there is a
situation that you have in mind,that you struggle with, you can
role play.
You can go with yourself in themirror or you can have a
trusted friend that you'recomfortable with.
But it takes practice to say noor to create a solution to
(25:48):
address the situation.
It's not something that youlearn over that.
You just learn that quickly.
It's the same thing for peoplewho have a phobia, let's say, if
you have a phobia with spiders,arachnophobia.
As a therapist, one thing we dois something called exposure
therapy, and with exposuretherapy, it's something where we
, if you have this fear ofspiders, we're not going to just
(26:12):
give you a big tarantula andsay, here, why don't you pet
this tarantula?
That's what we call flooding,and flooding is uh, it's a
concept where you wouldn't dothat and you have probably like
a 50 50 shot of it working ormaking things a lot, a lot worse
.
So we don't like numbers likethat.
(26:33):
We like something a little moreeffective, something with
spiders, with arachnophobia.
We'll start with the I did theword spider, then we'll start
with the maybe like a littlepicture of it, maybe like a
cartoon picture, then we'llstart with the real thing, like
a real image of it.
And then you know, maybe we,you know, go to a, a zoo that
(26:59):
has spiders, and we kind of workour way up.
We're getting more and more ofthat exposure.
Same thing with boundaries.
It's you start off with um, youknow that small boundary that
you struggle with here.
Let's say it's a situation witha friend that always borrows
(27:19):
money, or maybe it's a partnerthat you have, your girlfriend,
that still stay up longer thanyou can because you have to get
up, and you know it starts withsaying that, hey, you know what
I have things to do in themorning.
You know I'm more than happy todo, maybe have a little more
time over the weekend because Ihave more time to do it, but
(27:42):
crying down I can't.
I mean, what do you think?
Maybe there's some other thingswe can do during this time.
Maybe there's some things wecan do in the morning Create
solutions.
A good boundary center issomeone that creates solutions
to the situation, and I thinkthat's a huge hurdle that people
have when they struggle withboundaries is that they don't
know how to solve the problem.
So they solve the problem bysaying like, sure, yeah, let's
(28:05):
just do it, I'll stay up longer,even though I have to get up in
the morning and be tired, maybebe late for work and get some
points off, depending on where Iwork at.
I'm going to displace thatanger back to you because I'm
not getting what I want, whichis more sleep, and that's what
(28:25):
we do is called projection.
So you know, anger in men andboundary-centered in men kind of
ties hand in hand, becausepeople who struggle, saying no,
or create these solutions, theytend to have these worse
outcomes and then we tend toreact in a negative way.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, that makes sense.
One of my favorite books isFierce Conversations by Susan
Scott.
Have you ever read it?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
No, I haven't, but I've heard of it.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
We read it and we can reconvene, because I have so
many quotes from that book.
I love that book, but I wantedto ask I'm in a leadership
position at work.
So if anyone's a manager or aleader at work, kind of in this
role of boundary setting, how doyou have the best feedback with
a member that maybe isn'tpulling enough weight or you
(29:14):
know doing some things that arenot they shouldn't be doing, or
things like that?
How do you set the room?
How do you have that bestconversations?
I feel like it usually leads toa lot of shutting down and
defensiveness and things likethat.
It feels like kind of in thesame realm of you know creating
solutions and boundaries.
But could you walk us throughlike a difficult feedback?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a good question.
I mean, you know, one of theoldest forms of conflict
resolution is probably thesandwich method, which is, uh,
you start off with somethingpositive and then you land with
the negative and then you comeback with positive.
But let's start, let's stickwith that second part, that that
negative.
(29:54):
There that's when things getpretty crazy, right, because
people will start off with youknow, you're doing great, you're
, I like that, you have this redtie, that you come in but all
your paperwork is horrible, it'strash and uh, but you leave a
good note saying that and yougot some nice black shoes, you
(30:14):
and you just leave the room justfeeling helpless, right, and
icky a bit.
So that mental right.
We want to use something calledI statements and we want to
express how we feel about thesituation.
We're not trying to blame theperson, we're just trying to use
the data that we've seen.
We're not trying to make theperson look like they're
(30:38):
inferior in any way, we're juststating the data right.
That's the time where you feelX, y and Z and then you express
that data that you have.
You know, the hard part when itcomes to this set of boundaries
, especially in the workplace isthat we don't want to step on
people's toes.
We don't want to make peoplefeel bad.
Right, even if you were, even ifyou are in the service, if
(31:02):
you're in the military, I mean,you're still human at the end of
the day you still don't want tomake someone feel like crap
because of what they experience.
Even if the culture is designedthat way, to be cold and
callous, I believe a lot ofpeople feel that they have to
still be mindful of thosefeelings.
So I would say that a great wayis you know, you start with
(31:26):
positive, you use those lifestatements, express how you feel
about the situation, getstraight to the point, create
solutions, ask like how can wehelp, what can we do to make
this work?
You're there almost like acoach at this point.
The great coaches are greatsolution solvers.
They're problem solvers, theywant to figure out how to make
(31:47):
improvement on the situation.
And then leave on anotherpositive note and I think that
would be a great starting pointon this and and nothing go too
much in detail into likeindustrial psychology, but more
of those follow-ups can help aswell makes sense.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, it's uh difficult.
You know, being the being theboss is never fun, is it?
Um, so your next pillar ismen's anxiety, so I think this
will be interesting how doesanxiety manifest differently in
men, and why is it important toaddress those differences?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Well, simply, men's anxiety has been something
that's been overlooked in oursociety.
Men's mental health has beenoverlooked and a lot of men
struggle with anxiety hands downbeen overlooked, and a lot of
men struggle with anxiety handsdown.
I think one of the mostimportant parts, nate, is that
being aware they exist and, bythe way, anxiety is an emotion.
(32:45):
We all have it.
We all have times where we feelanxious, and I'm not here to
stigmatize the word anxiety, butwhat I am here to do is help
people understand that it existsand we shouldn't just overlook
it, right?
So men's anxiety truly comesfrom people men not willing to
(33:08):
express their feelings, notwilling to say that, hey, I'm
not okay, and not willing toshare those feelings to people
they care about having thatsocial support Because, as you
know, a lot of us men, we tendto isolate each other.
We try to isolate ourselvesamongst the people.
That could be a support andthat's going to be the number
(33:29):
one thing.
And the next, actuallycurrently now, is that men's
mental health is going tocontinue to be on this decline
if we don't create anintervention and awareness that,
hey, men need support as welltoo.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, it's so interesting to me because for
the longest time we talked aboutlike pulling yourself up by
your bootstraps and you know, Ithink the model you know for the
longest time was thetraditional model, the woman
staying at home and say, oh, mom, and then you know the
breadwinner, and so you'resupposed to bring the money and
take care of everything andprotect the house and all these
(34:07):
things.
And so this thought process forso long is you know if you're
crying, or you know actuallyfeeling your emotions like a
regular human should?
You know it was weaker, lesserand things like that, and just
so deep rooted.
It's so difficult.
But I wanted to ask you anothertime if you could share another
story, because I love stories.
So do you have a moment fromyour own journey, or you know
(34:30):
one of the clients or something,without obviously giving
information, where that anxietytook a turning point for change
or self-discovery and got them?
You know the help they needed.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
That's a good question.
Oh, there's a few that I couldthink of.
I can take it into my own lifeand I can talk about a situation
where I was ready to just bedone with therapy as a whole,
just done with the field, readyto just be done with therapy as
a whole, just done with thefield, and my anxiety was just
(35:04):
so overwhelming because, youknow, to become a therapist you
have to pass these boards, thesecertification exams, and I
struggled, I failed it twice andI said to myself you know, this
is it, I'm done.
Actually, there was a point intime that I actually got into
programming which was a blessingin disguise, believe it or not
learning Python and teaching myson that.
So it actually turned out to bea very fortunate thing.
(35:24):
But I've learned that I had todig deep within myself and truly
believe that it's okay to notbe okay that you know those
struggles of that test anxietythat I felt was really the issue
, not me not knowing it, becauseafter I learned that it was
that test anxiety that reallythrew me off, that's when I was
(35:47):
able to really crack down,practicing mindfulness and
meditation and pretty muchlearned to be attuned to my body
and I was able to pass it andyou know helping people ever
since.
But it also dig even deeper,darker issue in the field that
I'm in a field where people haveto show that they're better
(36:10):
than the other people.
It happens a lot in this fieldMedical, you know, health,
health, mental health are thebiggest.
We're notorious for this.
Doctors, therapists we want toone-up the other person just to
show that I'm smarter than you.
Look at my credentials, look atwhat I have, rather than just
being okay for who you are andbeing comfortable just saying,
(36:34):
hey, I'm not perfect, I'm notthis, I'm not that, being
comfortable just saying that,hey, I'm not perfect, I'm not
this, I'm not that.
And and you know, once Ilearned that you know this
culture of this, you know, inmental health, where even the
therapists are having identityissues and having issues with
feeling like they're not goodenough.
(36:55):
That made me realize that, okay,we need to change the whole
dynamic here.
We need to change the wholegame here.
We need to learn that.
You know what.
We need to stop one-upping eachother and really being okay
with someone's perspective onthings versus the other person's
perspective.
(37:16):
I've seen that a lot in myfield.
Actually.
I've seen that with othertherapists, just one up in the
other, and I'm sure it happensin many other fields and I'm
sure you've seen it yourself.
But that culture needs to stopand I think that's what brings a
lot of anxiety, especially inmen, because we have to be the
alpha male, we have to be thebest, we have to lower our voice
(37:39):
when we can, we have to showthat we're a man's man.
But what is truly a man's man?
What does that even mean?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, I think we struggle even more in the
military because we have, youknow, what we call
stratification, which is who'snumber one, who's number two,
who's number three in the unit,and so we get down to, even to
the level of numbers, and so,you know, everyone knows who's
number one, cause they, you know, do the thing.
It's supposed to be somewhatsecret and whatnot, but I mean,
(38:08):
by the end of the day, everyoneknows where they are, and so
it's just rough where we, youknow, I think we're trying to do
stuff to promotecompetitiveness, which is good
to a certain extent, but youknow, squashing people like that
is pretty tough, because onlyso many people get the number
and everyone below that islesser than, and so it's
difficult when those promotionthings come around.
(38:29):
One thing I wanted to ask you Ihate going to briefings and
things where they talk abouthypotheticals and things like
that.
So I always like to ask whatare actionable tips and tricks
that you found most effective inmanaging men's mental health?
What's something someone coulddo today, this week, this month?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (38:49):
I mean being able to be comfortable expressing your
feelings.
And that is the number oneissue with men's mental health
is that we're not comfortableutilizing social support.
Women, they do an amazing jobwith that, by the way.
They are amazing.
They'll get into a supportgroup in a minute.
(39:12):
They are quick to utilize theirfriends, utilize the people
around them very quick.
With that, I mean, they even goto the bathroom together.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Right, they're always together.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Always together, right, but with us it's a
totally different dynamic.
It's well, I'm good, I'm good,but you're not good.
I'm okay, I'm fine, fine, fine,I'm not, but you're not fine,
you're not okay, I'm fine, fine,fine, I'm not, but you're not
fine, you're not okay.
And I think we learn thisdynamic where we're not willing
to say that I'm not okay, I justneed support.
(39:44):
I don't need money, I don'tneed this, I don't need that, I
just want to be heard.
And I think that's the otherpart, which is why I say this
all the time that healthy socialsupport trumps mental health.
It's Trump therapy all the time, all day, every day.
When you have a healthy supportsystem, nine out of 10 times you
don't need a therapist, becausethat healthy support system
(40:07):
will bring you to that next stepin your life.
They will bring you to thethings that you're trying to
cope with.
A healthy support system willbring you to the next stages,
the next stage in your life.
So, if you're someone that, asa man, is trying to do better
with their mental health, startwith a healthy support system.
(40:29):
Look at your friends that youfeel comfortable with and just
have that conversation.
Just express how you're feelingand that, hey, I just need
support.
I'm not here just to be atherapist.
I just want you to know thatyou're there for me, brother,
that's all we look for.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I think that's a really good reminder too,
because I know in the militarywe struggle with mental health
and we don't have enoughproviders.
There's not even enoughproviders in the United States
or just at the world at large,and so we kind of come back to
this Well, there's not enoughappointments, there's not
whatever.
But I think that's a reallygood reminder.
That lowest level possible.
You know, if you have thesupport, you have your friend.
(41:10):
I know my first base when I took, like, my new position when I
went from enlisted to becomingan officer.
My first year was awful.
I hated my first year.
I thought I knew what I wasinto but I didn't really know.
So me and a guy we started thesame day and we drive.
There happened to be a Starbuckson base which was super nice,
but we used to go over there andjust vent all this stuff out on
(41:33):
the way to Starbucks.
And it was always funny becauseit was like hey, do you want to
go get some coffee?
And in no way does this haveanything to do with the coffee
we got, the tea we got.
You know, whatever it may be,but it's the ability to bounce
ideas, vent, get that all out inthe car and then you pop out of
the car and then get back intowork.
But you were able to processand it was so nice because you
(41:53):
know we'd sit and kind of talkto each other and I loved how we
always went down two roads andI don't know how we came up with
it, I guess we just kind ofstumbled across it, but it was
do you want me to find solutionsor do you want to vent?
Those were two different ones.
We start thinking of ideas foreach other, or I'm just going to
listen and let this word vomit,and then we're going to get out
of the car.
You know those are twocompletely different ways.
(42:15):
We're going to get out of thecar you know those are two
completely different ways.
But going and grabbingsomething in the afternoon from
Starbucks, maybe it costs toomuch money, but I mean I'll pay
for it for the mental healthaspect, but yeah, that's really
good stuff.
The last pillar you have ismen's issues in mental health,
and so I think this is a perfectsegue.
We have that stigma out there.
We struggle to get there.
So how can we go about creatingthis supportive environment
(42:37):
where men feel comfortablediscussing these struggles?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
That's good.
That's a good question.
Well, it starts with theculture.
I mean, we live in this culturewhere we're not okay to express
our feelings and we need tolearn to do that.
So how do we do that?
Well, for example, let's lookat events.
Let's actually get out.
Let's actually go out and lookat things within our community
(43:03):
that we can do, that we canconnect with.
I mean, there's a bunch ofsupport groups out there,
believe it or not, that you canput yourself into.
I mean the second thing,believe it or not, I would say
social media into.
I mean the second thing,believe it or not, I would say
social media.
Social media is a great toolfor support systems.
I know I've created a supportsystem on mindfulness and I do
(43:28):
it on X now.
It's a great way for people tocome together to utilize support
.
So, for just men's mental health, it starts with finding a
calming ground that you'reinterested in, that you like to
do, and you build thoserelationships.
You have to build therelationships.
(43:49):
You have to start fromsomewhere.
If you already have friends, ifyou already have that, but
you're a type of man that's likeI just don't feel comfortable
with it.
Now's the right time to givethat freaking cold shuma text.
Hey, let's grab a cup of coffee, let's just connect, let's just
hang out for a little bit and,as you get comfortable, maybe
(44:11):
then you can kind of dig deeperhow you're feeling.
I do that with a few of myfriends.
A lot of my good friends arefrom.
They live in New York and Ilive down here in Florida.
You know, we will talk on thephone, we will even do like a
video call and just talk aboutlife and then we kind of dig
into deeper stuff.
(44:31):
That's what we need to do asmen is like we need to start
from somewhere.
Don't feel hesitant to reachout to the people that you have.
You don't have to start offwith the deep, dark things that
you're feeling.
You can work your way up.
You know, work your way up,work up to your comfortability.
If you still feel uncomfortable, you can write these things
(44:55):
down and then you know you canexpress it like that as well,
but you have to do it withinyour comfortability is the most
important part.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, that makes sense.
That's the second time now.
We talked about small steps.
So start with something, easeyour way into it, get after it,
but start with something.
Well, let's try to bring it alltogether.
So, solomon, if you could leavemen with one powerful takeaway
from this conversation today,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (45:20):
The most important part and I know we've spoke
about.
We spoke about boundaries, wespoke about anxiety, we spoke
about mental health.
I think all of this goes backto utilizing healthy support
systems.
I think this rounds up to that,even with boundary setting.
I mean, you know, if youstruggle with boundaries, I mean
(45:40):
it's good to reach out to afriend and express these
struggles that you have andbeing comfortable expressing
these feelings.
It goes back to beingcomfortable taking that step.
But don't feel like you have totake this huge, gargantuan step
.
It's baby steps, you know, likethat old saying just take
little baby steps.
That's what it's about.
(46:01):
You don't have to take leapsand bounds, you just take that
first step.
And for men, I'm telling you,the first step is reaching out
to a friend that you trust, thatyou feel comfortable with and,
mind you, it could be a familymember or a friend that you
trust, not anybody that you calla friend, that you call a
(46:22):
family member, that you don'tfeel comfortable with, the
people that you feel comfortableexpressing these feelings with.
Start with that and then youwork your way up and then also
being comfortable writing downthings that you're grateful for
or just saying in your head oneto one or one to three things
that you're grateful for.
(46:42):
So support mindfulness andbeing grateful.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
That all makes sense.
How do you eat an elephant?
One bite at a time?
Well, Solomon, thank you forcoming on the show.
Please join the conversation.
Connect with us on one of themany social media pages to share
your questions, insight orfeedback.
We're building a community andyour voice matters.
I love you all.
See ya, Thank you.
Welcome everyone.
I'm Nate Shearer, your host,and this is MindForce, the
podcast.
That's all about diving intolove, life and learning.
Here your mind matters.
Today we have Solomon Richburgand today we'll be talking about
boundary setting, men's anxietyand other men's mental health
issues.
But let's start with the basicstuff the four W's, the who,
(00:44):
what, why and where.
Solomon, who are you?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, nate, thank you for bringing me on.
I am just a guy that'soriginally from Queens, new York
, that moved down to the sunnystate of Florida with a
beautiful wife and two, about tohave three kids in May, and I'm
a licensed therapist that'sjust here to help people, help
men move on, become the betterthem, the better men that they
(01:10):
want to be, and I'm just heresharing my gifts to the world.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Awesome.
So I think that touches on whatyou do and where you are in
Florida.
Why are you here today,specifically?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
day specifically.
Well, I actually saw your, your, some of your, your tiktoks on
on the mind force and I reallyliked what I saw and I said to
myself you know, let me, let mejust uh share that encouragement
like, hey, you got a good thinggoing on.
Uh, keep at it.
I think that's when you're likeI bet you want to be on the
show.
And I was taken aback there, Isaid, hmm, I kind of do so.
(01:52):
You know that's when we wereable to connect, but, yeah, I
truly came on the show.
So that one to support the showbut two to send a message about
mental health and for men'shealth and boundaries, because I
think in the society that welive in, it is something that is
a bit missing and I think weneed to emphasize it more,
(02:12):
especially for men.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It's so interesting how the universe is such a
powerful thing.
Just today at work I work inthe medical section, so I work
for the Surgeon General at mybase and a person stopped by and
they wanted to set up a likesmall group type of brief,
educational, small group typething for men.
It was interesting.
He recently was diagnosed withcancer in his colon so he had to
(02:36):
have a chunk of his colon cutout and then piece back together
and he was talking about howmen have such a difficult time
with colonoscopies and thesedifferent things that we need
and we should probably get after, but we don't want to talk
about it.
And so he wanted to start witha brief and try to get people
more used to it and then also beable to break and talk about it
and make it more normal.
(02:57):
And I love that because that'sone of the points of the show.
Here is breaking stigmas andmaking conversation more normal
about things.
Here is breaking stigmas andmaking conversation more normal
about things, and so I'm so gladyou're on the show and it's
awesome that that just happened.
Kind of funny where he wastalking about how all these
different things are on the risein men specifically.
So a lot of negative healthconcerns sound like it was on
(03:18):
the rise.
He was dropping differentpercentages and things like that
.
But he wanted to share hisstory.
I'm going to try to get thatword out.
So I think that's the way wereally get after this, because
I've really tried to think of,like, how you fix mental health
and working through mentalfitness.
I know it's an ongoing thing,but I think the biggest thing is
relatable, right, like storiesand connection.
That's where it all comes from.
(03:38):
I think we often think woe isme, I'm the only one going
through it, isolation and thingslike that.
But if you know other peopleare going through it, I feel
like that connection's built andthings are a lot different.
But let's jump into the warm-upand get things rolling, based
on the three pillars that youhave.
What's one boundary you've setrecently that has significantly
(03:59):
improved your life?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
That's a very good question, and the boundary that
I put for my life recently isabout being comfortable saying
no, and being comfortable sayingno for people that that's going
to be a burden for me if Ipursue it.
Recently there was a, you know,a person of mine, a good friend
(04:23):
of mine, that was strugglingwith some finances and I said to
myself, wow, this isunfortunate.
But one thing about boundariesis that sometimes when you've
struggled with boundaries in thepast, those past events become
your current events and it canmisconstrued someone that's
(04:43):
seriously in need event and itcould misconstrued someone
that's seriously in need.
So I had to be mindful of thesituation that every boundary is
different for every scenario.
So for this person that youknow that needed that support, I
was able to help that person.
But keep in mind of my ownlimitations, because sometimes
when we set a boundary forsomebody, there tends to be a
(05:03):
fear of will this personcontinue to do this?
Well, is this going to be anongoing habit?
Am I going to be comfortablesaying no?
And you know, one thing that Iwas able to do, nate, was to set
a boundary by being able toempathize and support that
person.
Empathize and support thatperson but at the same time set
(05:25):
a limit for myself helping thatperson but not crossing the
boundary where I'm giving morethan what I can truly afford
myself.
So I think that is somethingthat many people also struggle
to, especially with finances.
That's a big one for people.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, I think that's a really good reminder of, you
know, thinking of not doingcookie cutter solutions.
I think a lot of times we wanteverything to look the same for
some reason, I guess becauseit's easier, maybe, and so you
want that solution.
Hey, I use that one time, I canuse it again, and so I'm glad
you pointed that out.
You know, different person,different situation.
You know sit, weigh, sleep onit, figure out what that right
(06:06):
course of action is and then getafter it.
I think that's a good reminder.
You can't, you know, always usethe same boundary the same
thing every time.
The next question I had for youis how do you personally unwind
or manage stress during aparticularly challenging day?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's a very good one.
I love it because I alsoemphasize on self-care and for
me, one thing I do in themorning I exercise.
I exercise in the morning asmuch as I can 6 am, At 5.30 am.
I wake up, 6 o'clock, that'swhen I start exercising.
I have a little waist in mygarage and that's something that
I do.
(06:42):
But also what I do at night issomething like this it's a sound
ball and I would use that as away to meditate, and I have a
few of them, and I would use asound ball as something to help
me be mindful and present atnight, Because sometimes I will
get anxious at night, you know,ruminating on the things of the
(07:03):
day.
The sound bowl helps me bemindful and present and help me
just focus, go to sleep at night.
So those are the two self-careroutines that I use for myself
and I think it is very helpfulfor me and I actually encourage
other people to give it a shot.
If you haven't done sound bowlwork, Nate, I encourage you to,
(07:24):
because it's good stuff, manyeah.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So I gotta ask a question on that, because on the
show the two reoccurring thingsare journaling and meditation,
and so I gotta ask every personI hope it's not redundant, but I
don't think it is becauseeveryone does things a little
bit differently but for someoneout there that's listening, that
doesn't do any meditation, howdo you go from not doing it to
doing it?
Because I think a lot of peopleespecially talking about men
(07:48):
right, I don't want to sit onthe ground, cross my legs, this
is foo-foo, this is, you know,this is, you know, shippy stuff.
Can you kind of walk us throughhow someone can integrate and
start to ease into that from notdoing it?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, I mean, meditation is about being in the
present.
That's what mindfulness isabout.
Even when I think of mind force, I think of a present force
that you're here in the moment.
Mindfulness and meditation doesnot always have to be, it
doesn't have to be a salvo.
It doesn't have to be yousitting on a mat doing yoga.
It doesn't have to be a salvo.
It doesn't have to be yousitting on a mat doing yoga.
(08:24):
It doesn't have to be any ofthat.
It can be simply sitting insilence and just being attuned
to yourself.
It can be journaling, right.
It can be that being present,writing what we call gratitude,
doing a gratitude journal andbeing mindful and present of the
things that you're grateful forthat can be something that can
(08:47):
bring you into the present andyou can meditate on that.
Just remind yourself of thethings that you're grateful for
during the day.
So for anyone that's beginning,for men that's beginning with
this, I would say simplest thingis just name three things that
you're grateful for and resonateon that.
That is the simplest way ofgoing about it and then from
(09:08):
there, if you want to trysomething more challenging, you
can do a seven bowl or you cando some deep breathing
techniques.
But that's that's basically it.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That's that's the beginning I love that too,
because I think a lot of times,and maybe even more on the men's
side, I think as humans ingeneral, but more on the men's
side I think as humans ingeneral, but more on the men's
side we want the first thing.
I feel like a lot of times it'dbe this heavy lift, this
Herculean effort, this hugeproject.
And so I love that you bring upthree things, very basic, and
(09:37):
so anything can be that firststep just putting your shoes out
to run in the morning, puttingyour clothes out, like start
with the little things.
You know a sentence in thatjournal, and then the next time
it's a paragraph and things likethat.
I know atomic habits.
You know James Clear.
He talks about that.
There's a couple of differentpeople, but I think that's super
important.
Or the the Navy guy Admiral,maybe that you know, make your
(09:59):
bed in the morning, start withan accomplishment and get things
rolling.
I think those are all reallygood things and I just a good
reminder.
I think people know.
But just to reiterate again,like get some small wins, like
don't worry about how big it iswhere you're at, you know just
start with something small ones.
The last question I got in thewarm-up.
This one should be fun.
(10:20):
What's a misconception aboutmen's health that you wish more
people understood?
What's the big myth?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Mental health, that we don't have feelings, that we
don't have bad days, that wecan't cry, that we can't be
angry, that we can't do any ofthese things.
I think that's the big mythhere.
There's so many with men'shealth, but I would say the
biggest part is that we don'tneed support.
I would say that's probably thebiggest one, and we all, as
(10:51):
human beings, need that.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So where do you think that comes from?
I mean, pull yourself up byyour bootstraps and hold it in
and things like that when I meanhave you done any classes on
history?
Or where that actually comesfrom.
Oh, we're.
I mean, have you done any likeclasses on history?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
or like where that actually comes from, how we're
going there this is a warm-up,right.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, we've transitioned from the fun.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Now we're getting into it okay, well, I mean the
pull yourself up by thebootstraps.
That's a philosophical conceptthat we have on, believing that
we have to just suck it up, notallow our emotions get in the
way and just do it.
And um, that's okay for acertain extent, for a certain
(11:34):
time, maybe, a certain time in asituation and, yeah, I would
say, maybe this is a baby boomerthing, but, but, to be honest,
I think this is a thing thatevery generation did struggle.
We've had multiple um tragediesthat have occurred.
Um, I mean me being amillennial.
(11:56):
I mean I grew up, uh, born inthe late 80s, grew up in the 90s
.
I lived in New York in 2001.
The minute I say that, I'm surethat rang the bell in your mind
what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Where you were exact moment when you found out.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
When I found out, absolutely Even then, there was
a concept of we gotta just keepit moving, we got to do
something.
We got to, you know, notresonate and just do something
about it.
And it's a tough one, nate,because pulling ourselves by the
(12:36):
bootstraps.
I think it really goes back tothe philosophy, especially in
Western culture, that, you know,let's not focus on our emotions
, let's just do the job, and Ithink it has its place.
But I think what happens withthat?
When we take that energy andfocus on just doing the job,
well, guess what?
(12:57):
The dust settles and you stillhave to process that and that
energy is there.
And what happens to many peoplewith that?
They don't know what to do withthat energy and it's displaced
in not so great places.
And this is where trauma comesfrom.
This is how trauma really comesinto the people.
(13:17):
Trauma is actually indeed thatdispersive energy that comes
from the event that gravitatesto a person.
That person is not able toprocess that energy that comes
from the event, like a caraccident.
That energy, that impact thathappens, that we get from that.
That's what resonates withpeople.
(13:41):
That's why some people can copewith it and other people can't,
and this is why we as a societycannot just accept that one
person could just pull up by thebootstraps because that person
could do it and the other personcan't do it.
That other person is not rightor wrong for that, but we live
(14:01):
in a society where we have to,everyone has to be the same, and
that's not true.
Nobody's the same.
We, we all come from differentexperiences.
We all come from differentparts of the world, different
timelines, and we, we need torespect each other more on that.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
So yeah, yeah.
So it's a good reminder too.
I know I lost my dad a fewyears ago and, you know, going
through the stages of grief andthings like that, it's just so
interesting between you know, mylittle brother, my little
sister, my mom, me All thosewere, you know, completely
different.
You know we were all atdifferent stages of life,
different things going on, andso I think a lot of times, going
(14:41):
back to the cookie cutter, alot of people want it to look
the same, like, oh well, thatworked for him, it should work
for her and should work for you.
Like, everyone processes anddoes all those things
differently.
But I do find it interesting onthe here and now, though,
because I feel like currently,we want our answers instantly
because we want to Googlewhatever it is.
We want our food instantlybecause we're going to go
(15:02):
through the drive-thru thingsfaster, and you know yesterday
and all those things.
So it kind of makes sense withwhere we're at is like you just
deal with the here and nowbecause it's in front of you and
just don't worry about the rest, even though you're going to
burn out, you're going to haveproblems later, but the way that
we seem to process thingscurrently is just what's in
front of you, so it almost seemslike like it lines up just do,
(15:23):
do, do and then deal with thefallout later, which in no way
saying is right, but it doesseem to make sense with how we
are.
Want things here and now,that's awesome.
Well, that rounds up the warmup.
I want to see if you have aquestion for me before we go
into your three pillars.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, I mean, I do want to ask you as far as your
feelings on just boundaries hasthere been a situation where
you've had a boundary?
That's been something that youthought of as a challenge for
yourself, that you had toovercome?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
not great.
So I don't know, back to mychildhood I probably need to,
you know, go through counselingand kind of process some of that
.
I grew up with just my mom fora lot of it.
So it was a lot of me and heragainst the world.
And so I think at this point,you know I do a lot of people
pleasing and agreeing and yesingand I need to do a much better
job of the no, like you hadmentioned, like being okay and
comfortable with that.
But I always want to besuccessful and do well and, you
know, do good things and so if Isay yes every time, people will
(16:30):
be happy and like me and thingslike that.
So I definitely struggle withthat.
I wish I did a better job ofthat.
Maybe we'll have to have asidebar and also figure out how
to process a little bit better,but I would love to, you know,
set better boundaries and thingslike that.
There's only so much you can do,there's only so much time in
the day.
I'd like to think I'm getting alittle bit better as I grow in
(16:54):
rank, you know, I think it feelsa little bit more comfortable
because you feel like you havethe title or whatever to back it
up and probably should havedone it, you know, a while ago
and it probably didn't need torely on that.
But it does feel a little bitmore comfortable when you know
the more you do it and the moreexperience.
So I think that's one of thosethings like practice makes
perfect, unless you just havethe gift and it just makes sense
from the beginning.
But I think you would have toexercise right and, you know,
put some practice in.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Absolutely you do.
It takes time, it takespractice.
Do you have tips on how to easeinto that instead of just
(17:39):
jumping in and bounderingeverything?
What type of person I am?
Do I have porous boundaries,unless somebody that is quick to
say yes to everything.
Maybe you're someone that'srigid, that's actually really
quick to say no.
Or maybe you do have healthyboundaries that you don't know
about, and that's another thingis that people think that they
have terrible boundaries, butthey actually have healthy
(18:01):
boundaries, but it all dependson the person, the situation,
mind you, when it comes toboundaries but they actually
have healthy boundaries, but itall depends on the person and
the situation.
Mind you, when it comes toboundaries, it's a thin line
when it comes to boundaries andassertions, because when you're
having healthy boundaries, youtend to be assertive, not
aggressive, notpassive-aggressive, but
assertive.
It's a huge concept and thatitself is a huge breakdown, and
(18:25):
one I happen to share.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Okay, yeah, that's perfect.
So your first of the threepillars is boundary setting, so
this is a perfect segue.
My favorite thing on the showis stories.
I think we were, you know,hardwired to convey information
through stories.
You know it's back to thecaveman days and things like
that.
So can you share a story of atime when setting a boundary
transformed a relationship orsituation in your life?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, I mean this goes back to what I was talking
about earlier, about my friendwith the finances.
And you know we and we're goodfriends, you know, still to this
day and and really if I wasaggressive on the situation it
could have damaged it, it couldhave damaged that relationship.
Or if I was passive-aggressiveand just gave more than what I
(19:12):
wanted to do, it would have hurtit, not immediately, but in the
long run it would have.
And then that's the differencebetween all these type of
boundaries that when you haveporous boundaries or if you have
very rigid, harsh boundaries,it could do damage in its own
(19:34):
way.
It's just one is longer thanthe other.
Going back to that, I mean youknow I've learned that in that
situation that I have to becomfortable given of a
negotiator than what you think.
Sometimes you have to just askyourself okay, I might not be
(20:01):
able to give you this amount ofmoney, but how about I give you
this and then maybe find someoneelse that can give the rest and
also set expectations as well.
There was a guy I think theShark Tank guy.
They call him Mr Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, yeah, that guy.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
What?
What is his name?
I forget his name.
He's the.
I think he's canadian, but hehe's.
Yeah, they call him mrwonderful, but this guy is is a
uh, kevin o'leary kevin o'leary.
There we go, that guy, and Iremember watching an interview
on him and he was talking,talking about how he has family
members that ask him for moneyall the time I mean rightfully.
(20:43):
So I know, if I was a relativeof him I would probably ask for
a few here and there.
Right, and you know, what hewould do is that he would set
this boundary.
Which I thought was awesome isthat he would set this boundary,
which I thought was awesome.
He would tell the personbecause he has the money, he
wants to get it, but he don'twant to be this returning bank
(21:08):
loan that people come and therewill be easy acceptance.
He would say, okay, I'm notgoing to loan you the money, I'm
going to gift you the money.
I'm only going to gift it toyou one time and that's it.
I don't need the money back, Idon't need anything, I'm just
going to gift it to you, butthat's the only time you're
going to ask me for money, andthat's it.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Do something good with it.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, right.
So it's almost like you're agenie, right, you're giving this
one wish, but after that onewish, that's it.
And I thought I thought thatwas pretty cool because he, he
was setting a boundary where youknow what I'm gonna help you
out, like, I'm gonna help youout in your situation, I'm not
gonna just say no and it's okayto say no too, by the way.
(21:49):
But he, he didn't want to dothat.
He said that you know what, I'mjust going to help you in this
situation, but don't expect meto give you more money again.
And I think when you put it outin that sense, I think people
would understand and you'resetting that boundary, and I
think it's very respectable.
(22:11):
So I used that as an example.
As you know, my friend thatneeded that, that was in that
situation and I said you knowwhat I'll help you out, you know
in this case, because you knowI can't give this amount of
money, but I can give you this.
I'm comfortable with this andI'm not expecting anything back.
I don't want it back.
(22:31):
I'm going to give it as a gift,as a friend, and I felt
comfortable with that.
I felt really comfortable withit because I'm helping someone
that's in need because, hey,we've all been there, I'm sure
at least once we've had thosetypes of circumstances, if not
financially, probably otherthings and it's good to give
someone a hand when we can.
(22:52):
So I think that was a prettysignificant example, at least
currently in my life, andsomething that's really
significant in me.
You know currently that, I feel, was a true example of boundary
setting.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I think that's a perfect example too, because you
had mentioned you don't want tobe the person that always says
no, you don't want to be theperson that always says yes, and
then you need the boundary andexpectations, so that kind of
fits all those.
You say yes, you're thegenerous person, the person who
can't complain because you camethrough, but you have the
expectation, the boundary, thatthat's the one and only, and so
you've kind of you know, checkedall those things.
(23:27):
I think it's a great example.
So earlier you had mentioned itmight work for the short term,
but over time it's going toerode that trust and things like
that.
So why do you think boundarysetting is so critical for
personal and professional growth?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Simply because, as humans, we are going to go
through trials and tribulations,and situations will come and
arise.
We are just.
It's so easy for us to go topeople that we're comfortable
with versus people that we'renot.
And that's why it's importantto be comfortable saying no when
(24:03):
you can, but also beingcomfortable creating solutions
for people.
And that's why I say thatsaying no is okay, but if you
can help the solution somehow,maybe that'll be even better.
That can be something that canleave a true impact in your
(24:23):
relationship with people,Because sometimes no, I was
going to say some go ahead, goahead.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
No, you can go.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
No, I was going to say sometimes the situation is
deeper than what it shows on thesurface, that's all.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, that's definitely true and I think it
helps build up some of thattrust too.
So I think a lot of times wethink no automatically would
shut things down.
But if you think about it fromthe other side, if you're the
person that agrees to everythingbut you only come through on
half the things, that all of asudden it's like I don't even
know if they're really gonnacome through.
They just kind of agree toeverything.
So if you have the yes and no,you have that mixture of the
(24:59):
things that you can actually do.
Then when your yes comesthrough, you know, you know it
can bank on that yes, which Iguess goes back to like the boy
cried wolf and things like that.
So I think it's good.
You know, in a certain case Idon't do a great job, but I can
definitely see like where thatwould be beneficial.
And the last question we havein this pillar is what advice do
you have for men who dostruggle to set and maintain
(25:21):
healthy boundaries?
So so me Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Well, it starts with being comfortable, saying you
know, the first thing you can dois you can, even if there is a
situation that you have in mind,that you struggle with, you can
role play.
You can go with yourself in themirror or you can have a
trusted friend that you'recomfortable with.
But it takes practice to say noor to create a solution to
(25:48):
address the situation.
It's not something that youlearn over that.
You just learn that quickly.
It's the same thing for peoplewho have a phobia, let's say, if
you have a phobia with spiders,arachnophobia.
As a therapist, one thing we dois something called exposure
therapy, and with exposuretherapy, it's something where we
, if you have this fear ofspiders, we're not going to just
(26:12):
give you a big tarantula andsay, here, why don't you pet
this tarantula?
That's what we call flooding,and flooding is uh, it's a
concept where you wouldn't dothat and you have probably like
a 50 50 shot of it working ormaking things a lot, a lot worse
.
So we don't like numbers likethat.
(26:33):
We like something a little moreeffective, something with
spiders, with arachnophobia.
We'll start with the I did theword spider, then we'll start
with the maybe like a littlepicture of it, maybe like a
cartoon picture, then we'llstart with the real thing, like
a real image of it.
And then you know, maybe we,you know, go to a, a zoo that
(26:59):
has spiders, and we kind of workour way up.
We're getting more and more ofthat exposure.
Same thing with boundaries.
It's you start off with um, youknow that small boundary that
you struggle with here.
Let's say it's a situation witha friend that always borrows
(27:19):
money, or maybe it's a partnerthat you have, your girlfriend,
that still stay up longer thanyou can because you have to get
up, and you know it starts withsaying that, hey, you know what
I have things to do in themorning.
You know I'm more than happy todo, maybe have a little more
time over the weekend because Ihave more time to do it, but
(27:42):
crying down I can't.
I mean, what do you think?
Maybe there's some other thingswe can do during this time.
Maybe there's some things wecan do in the morning Create
solutions.
A good boundary center issomeone that creates solutions
to the situation, and I thinkthat's a huge hurdle that people
have when they struggle withboundaries is that they don't
know how to solve the problem.
So they solve the problem bysaying like, sure, yeah, let's
(28:05):
just do it, I'll stay up longer,even though I have to get up in
the morning and be tired, maybebe late for work and get some
points off, depending on where Iwork at.
I'm going to displace thatanger back to you because I'm
not getting what I want, whichis more sleep, and that's what
(28:25):
we do is called projection.
So you know, anger in men andboundary-centered in men kind of
ties hand in hand, becausepeople who struggle, saying no,
or create these solutions, theytend to have these worse
outcomes and then we tend toreact in a negative way.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, that makes sense.
One of my favorite books isFierce Conversations by Susan
Scott.
Have you ever read it?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
No, I haven't, but I've heard of it.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
We read it and we can reconvene, because I have so
many quotes from that book.
I love that book, but I wantedto ask I'm in a leadership
position at work.
So if anyone's a manager or aleader at work, kind of in this
role of boundary setting, how doyou have the best feedback with
a member that maybe isn'tpulling enough weight or you
(29:14):
know doing some things that arenot they shouldn't be doing, or
things like that?
How do you set the room?
How do you have that bestconversations?
I feel like it usually leads toa lot of shutting down and
defensiveness and things likethat.
It feels like kind of in thesame realm of you know creating
solutions and boundaries.
But could you walk us throughlike a difficult feedback?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a good question.
I mean, you know, one of theoldest forms of conflict
resolution is probably thesandwich method, which is, uh,
you start off with somethingpositive and then you land with
the negative and then you comeback with positive.
But let's start, let's stickwith that second part, that that
negative.
(29:54):
There that's when things getpretty crazy, right, because
people will start off with youknow, you're doing great, you're
, I like that, you have this redtie, that you come in but all
your paperwork is horrible, it'strash and uh, but you leave a
good note saying that and yougot some nice black shoes, you
(30:14):
and you just leave the room justfeeling helpless, right, and
icky a bit.
So that mental right.
We want to use something calledI statements and we want to
express how we feel about thesituation.
We're not trying to blame theperson, we're just trying to use
the data that we've seen.
We're not trying to make theperson look like they're
(30:38):
inferior in any way, we're juststating the data right.
That's the time where you feelX, y and Z and then you express
that data that you have.
You know, the hard part when itcomes to this set of boundaries
, especially in the workplace isthat we don't want to step on
people's toes.
We don't want to make peoplefeel bad.
Right, even if you were, even ifyou are in the service, if
(31:02):
you're in the military, I mean,you're still human at the end of
the day you still don't want tomake someone feel like crap
because of what they experience.
Even if the culture is designedthat way, to be cold and
callous, I believe a lot ofpeople feel that they have to
still be mindful of thosefeelings.
So I would say that a great wayis you know, you start with
(31:26):
positive, you use those lifestatements, express how you feel
about the situation, getstraight to the point, create
solutions, ask like how can wehelp, what can we do to make
this work?
You're there almost like acoach at this point.
The great coaches are greatsolution solvers.
They're problem solvers, theywant to figure out how to make
(31:47):
improvement on the situation.
And then leave on anotherpositive note and I think that
would be a great starting pointon this and and nothing go too
much in detail into likeindustrial psychology, but more
of those follow-ups can help aswell makes sense.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, it's uh difficult.
You know, being the being theboss is never fun, is it?
Um, so your next pillar ismen's anxiety, so I think this
will be interesting how doesanxiety manifest differently in
men, and why is it important toaddress those differences?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Well, simply, men's anxiety has been something
that's been overlooked in oursociety.
Men's mental health has beenoverlooked and a lot of men
struggle with anxiety hands downbeen overlooked, and a lot of
men struggle with anxiety handsdown.
I think one of the mostimportant parts, nate, is that
being aware they exist and, bythe way, anxiety is an emotion.
(32:45):
We all have it.
We all have times where we feelanxious, and I'm not here to
stigmatize the word anxiety, butwhat I am here to do is help
people understand that it existsand we shouldn't just overlook
it, right?
So men's anxiety truly comesfrom people men not willing to
(33:08):
express their feelings, notwilling to say that, hey, I'm
not okay, and not willing toshare those feelings to people
they care about having thatsocial support Because, as you
know, a lot of us men, we tendto isolate each other.
We try to isolate ourselvesamongst the people.
That could be a support andthat's going to be the number
(33:29):
one thing.
And the next, actuallycurrently now, is that men's
mental health is going tocontinue to be on this decline
if we don't create anintervention and awareness that,
hey, men need support as welltoo.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, it's so interesting to me because for
the longest time we talked aboutlike pulling yourself up by
your bootstraps and you know, Ithink the model you know for the
longest time was thetraditional model, the woman
staying at home and say, oh, mom, and then you know the
breadwinner, and so you'resupposed to bring the money and
take care of everything andprotect the house and all these
(34:07):
things.
And so this thought process forso long is you know if you're
crying, or you know actuallyfeeling your emotions like a
regular human should?
You know it was weaker, lesserand things like that, and just
so deep rooted.
It's so difficult.
But I wanted to ask you anothertime if you could share another
story, because I love stories.
So do you have a moment fromyour own journey, or you know
(34:30):
one of the clients or something,without obviously giving
information, where that anxietytook a turning point for change
or self-discovery and got them?
You know the help they needed.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
That's a good question.
Oh, there's a few that I couldthink of.
I can take it into my own lifeand I can talk about a situation
where I was ready to just bedone with therapy as a whole,
just done with the field, readyto just be done with therapy as
a whole, just done with thefield, and my anxiety was just
(35:04):
so overwhelming because, youknow, to become a therapist you
have to pass these boards, thesecertification exams, and I
struggled, I failed it twice andI said to myself you know, this
is it, I'm done.
Actually, there was a point intime that I actually got into
programming which was a blessingin disguise, believe it or not
learning Python and teaching myson that.
So it actually turned out to bea very fortunate thing.
(35:24):
But I've learned that I had todig deep within myself and truly
believe that it's okay to notbe okay that you know those
struggles of that test anxietythat I felt was really the issue
, not me not knowing it, becauseafter I learned that it was
that test anxiety that reallythrew me off, that's when I was
(35:47):
able to really crack down,practicing mindfulness and
meditation and pretty muchlearned to be attuned to my body
and I was able to pass it andyou know helping people ever
since.
But it also dig even deeper,darker issue in the field that
I'm in a field where people haveto show that they're better
(36:10):
than the other people.
It happens a lot in this fieldMedical, you know, health,
health, mental health are thebiggest.
We're notorious for this.
Doctors, therapists we want toone-up the other person just to
show that I'm smarter than you.
Look at my credentials, look atwhat I have, rather than just
being okay for who you are andbeing comfortable just saying,
(36:34):
hey, I'm not perfect, I'm notthis, I'm not that, being
comfortable just saying that,hey, I'm not perfect, I'm not
this, I'm not that.
And and you know, once Ilearned that you know this
culture of this, you know, inmental health, where even the
therapists are having identityissues and having issues with
feeling like they're not goodenough.
(36:55):
That made me realize that, okay,we need to change the whole
dynamic here.
We need to change the wholegame here.
We need to learn that.
You know what.
We need to stop one-upping eachother and really being okay
with someone's perspective onthings versus the other person's
perspective.
(37:16):
I've seen that a lot in myfield.
Actually.
I've seen that with othertherapists, just one up in the
other, and I'm sure it happensin many other fields and I'm
sure you've seen it yourself.
But that culture needs to stopand I think that's what brings a
lot of anxiety, especially inmen, because we have to be the
alpha male, we have to be thebest, we have to lower our voice
(37:39):
when we can, we have to showthat we're a man's man.
But what is truly a man's man?
What does that even mean?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, I think we struggle even more in the
military because we have, youknow, what we call
stratification, which is who'snumber one, who's number two,
who's number three in the unit,and so we get down to, even to
the level of numbers, and so,you know, everyone knows who's
number one, cause they, you know, do the thing.
It's supposed to be somewhatsecret and whatnot, but I mean,
(38:08):
by the end of the day, everyoneknows where they are, and so
it's just rough where we, youknow, I think we're trying to do
stuff to promotecompetitiveness, which is good
to a certain extent, but youknow, squashing people like that
is pretty tough, because onlyso many people get the number
and everyone below that islesser than, and so it's
difficult when those promotionthings come around.
(38:29):
One thing I wanted to ask you Ihate going to briefings and
things where they talk abouthypotheticals and things like
that.
So I always like to ask whatare actionable tips and tricks
that you found most effective inmanaging men's mental health?
What's something someone coulddo today, this week, this month?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (38:49):
I mean being able to be comfortable expressing your
feelings.
And that is the number oneissue with men's mental health
is that we're not comfortableutilizing social support.
Women, they do an amazing jobwith that, by the way.
They are amazing.
They'll get into a supportgroup in a minute.
(39:12):
They are quick to utilize theirfriends, utilize the people
around them very quick.
With that, I mean, they even goto the bathroom together.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Right, they're always together.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Always together, right, but with us it's a
totally different dynamic.
It's well, I'm good, I'm good,but you're not good.
I'm okay, I'm fine, fine, fine,I'm not, but you're not fine,
you're not okay, I'm fine, fine,fine, I'm not, but you're not
fine, you're not okay.
And I think we learn thisdynamic where we're not willing
to say that I'm not okay, I justneed support.
(39:44):
I don't need money, I don'tneed this, I don't need that, I
just want to be heard.
And I think that's the otherpart, which is why I say this
all the time that healthy socialsupport trumps mental health.
It's Trump therapy all the time, all day, every day.
When you have a healthy supportsystem, nine out of 10 times you
don't need a therapist, becausethat healthy support system
(40:07):
will bring you to that next stepin your life.
They will bring you to thethings that you're trying to
cope with.
A healthy support system willbring you to the next stages,
the next stage in your life.
So, if you're someone that, asa man, is trying to do better
with their mental health, startwith a healthy support system.
(40:29):
Look at your friends that youfeel comfortable with and just
have that conversation.
Just express how you're feelingand that, hey, I just need
support.
I'm not here just to be atherapist.
I just want you to know thatyou're there for me, brother,
that's all we look for.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I think that's a really good reminder too,
because I know in the militarywe struggle with mental health
and we don't have enoughproviders.
There's not even enoughproviders in the United States
or just at the world at large,and so we kind of come back to
this Well, there's not enoughappointments, there's not
whatever.
But I think that's a reallygood reminder.
That lowest level possible.
You know, if you have thesupport, you have your friend.
(41:10):
I know my first base when I took, like, my new position when I
went from enlisted to becomingan officer.
My first year was awful.
I hated my first year.
I thought I knew what I wasinto but I didn't really know.
So me and a guy we started thesame day and we drive.
There happened to be a Starbuckson base which was super nice,
but we used to go over there andjust vent all this stuff out on
(41:33):
the way to Starbucks.
And it was always funny becauseit was like hey, do you want to
go get some coffee?
And in no way does this haveanything to do with the coffee
we got, the tea we got.
You know, whatever it may be,but it's the ability to bounce
ideas, vent, get that all out inthe car and then you pop out of
the car and then get back intowork.
But you were able to processand it was so nice because you
(41:53):
know we'd sit and kind of talkto each other and I loved how we
always went down two roads andI don't know how we came up with
it, I guess we just kind ofstumbled across it, but it was
do you want me to find solutionsor do you want to vent?
Those were two different ones.
We start thinking of ideas foreach other, or I'm just going to
listen and let this word vomit,and then we're going to get out
of the car.
You know those are twocompletely different ways.
(42:15):
We're going to get out of thecar you know those are two
completely different ways.
But going and grabbingsomething in the afternoon from
Starbucks, maybe it costs toomuch money, but I mean I'll pay
for it for the mental healthaspect, but yeah, that's really
good stuff.
The last pillar you have ismen's issues in mental health,
and so I think this is a perfectsegue.
We have that stigma out there.
We struggle to get there.
So how can we go about creatingthis supportive environment
(42:37):
where men feel comfortablediscussing these struggles?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
That's good.
That's a good question.
Well, it starts with theculture.
I mean, we live in this culturewhere we're not okay to express
our feelings and we need tolearn to do that.
So how do we do that?
Well, for example, let's lookat events.
Let's actually get out.
Let's actually go out and lookat things within our community
(43:03):
that we can do, that we canconnect with.
I mean, there's a bunch ofsupport groups out there,
believe it or not, that you canput yourself into.
I mean the second thing,believe it or not, I would say
social media into.
I mean the second thing,believe it or not, I would say
social media.
Social media is a great toolfor support systems.
I know I've created a supportsystem on mindfulness and I do
(43:28):
it on X now.
It's a great way for people tocome together to utilize support
.
So, for just men's mental health, it starts with finding a
calming ground that you'reinterested in, that you like to
do, and you build thoserelationships.
You have to build therelationships.
(43:49):
You have to start fromsomewhere.
If you already have friends, ifyou already have that, but
you're a type of man that's likeI just don't feel comfortable
with it.
Now's the right time to givethat freaking cold shuma text.
Hey, let's grab a cup of coffee, let's just connect, let's just
hang out for a little bit and,as you get comfortable, maybe
(44:11):
then you can kind of dig deeperhow you're feeling.
I do that with a few of myfriends.
A lot of my good friends arefrom.
They live in New York and Ilive down here in Florida.
You know, we will talk on thephone, we will even do like a
video call and just talk aboutlife and then we kind of dig
into deeper stuff.
(44:31):
That's what we need to do asmen is like we need to start
from somewhere.
Don't feel hesitant to reachout to the people that you have.
You don't have to start offwith the deep, dark things that
you're feeling.
You can work your way up.
You know, work your way up,work up to your comfortability.
If you still feel uncomfortable, you can write these things
(44:55):
down and then you know you canexpress it like that as well,
but you have to do it withinyour comfortability is the most
important part.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, that makes sense.
That's the second time now.
We talked about small steps.
So start with something, easeyour way into it, get after it,
but start with something.
Well, let's try to bring it alltogether.
So, solomon, if you could leavemen with one powerful takeaway
from this conversation today,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (45:20):
The most important part and I know we've spoke
about.
We spoke about boundaries, wespoke about anxiety, we spoke
about mental health.
I think all of this goes backto utilizing healthy support
systems.
I think this rounds up to that,even with boundary setting.
I mean, you know, if youstruggle with boundaries, I mean
(45:40):
it's good to reach out to afriend and express these
struggles that you have andbeing comfortable expressing
these feelings.
It goes back to beingcomfortable taking that step.
But don't feel like you have totake this huge, gargantuan step
.
It's baby steps, you know, likethat old saying just take
little baby steps.
That's what it's about.
(46:01):
You don't have to take leapsand bounds, you just take that
first step.
And for men, I'm telling you,the first step is reaching out
to a friend that you trust, thatyou feel comfortable with and,
mind you, it could be a familymember or a friend that you
trust, not anybody that you calla friend, that you call a
(46:22):
family member, that you don'tfeel comfortable with, the
people that you feel comfortableexpressing these feelings with.
Start with that and then youwork your way up and then also
being comfortable writing downthings that you're grateful for
or just saying in your head oneto one or one to three things
that you're grateful for.
(46:42):
So support mindfulness andbeing grateful.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
That all makes sense.
How do you eat an elephant?
One bite at a time?
Well, Solomon, thank you forcoming on the show.
Please join the conversation.
Connect with us on one of themany social media pages to share
your questions, insight orfeedback.
We're building a community andyour voice matters.
I love you all.
See ya, Thank you.
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