July 2, 2025 • 47 mins
I would love to hear from you!
Sam and Nate explore the critical importance of mental health awareness, the stigmas that prevent people from seeking help, and the journey toward emotional intelligence and healing from trauma. They discuss practical ways to support mental fitness through meditation, journaling, exercise, and connecting with safe people who can hold space for vulnerability.
• Mental health support should be viewed as an ongoing practice like physical fitness, not just something sought in crisis
• Growing up in Australia during the 90s, Sam faced significant stigma around seeking mental health help
• Journaling works best as an unfiltered "word vomit" rather than trying to write something perfect
• Warning signs of domestic violence include withdrawal, evasive behavior, and feeling controlled or monitored
• Emotional intelligence techniques include counting backward, pressing your tongue against your teeth, and physically taking steps back
• Sam courageously shares his experience of childhood molestation and growing up with parents who had depression
• Both hosts agree that vulnerability and authenticity create deeper connections with others
• Sam's meditation practice of nearly nine years has been essential to his mental health journey
It's okay that you're not okay. There's always someone there who can help – you're not alone.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Welcome everyone.
I'm Nate Shearer, your host,and this is Mindforce, a podcast
that's all about love, life andlearning.
Here, your mind matters.
Today we'll be talking aboutraising awareness in mental
health, anti-domestic and familyviolence, emotional
intelligence and trauma.
So let's start with thebackground.
Let's start with a quickintroduction.
(00:43):
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Who are you, what do you do andwhat brings you here today.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Journey myself and started a podcast about four
months ago and, in a way, longstory short, I started it for my
own mental health, getting toknow people, because I love
(01:11):
talking to people, getting tolove how people go through life,
what struggles I've beenthrough, what challenges I've
been through and, um, I guess ithelps me and it helps them.
So it's yeah, it's brought mehere really to, I guess, get to
know you and you get to know methrough this journey we call
life, which I've heard you quoteon your previous podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, there's no handbook, there's no guide.
We're just trying to getthrough this crazy thing called
life, and I think you know theconnections we have, and helping
each other is really, you know,the key to it.
It's probably oversimplified,but I mean.
Kindness to another personreally goes a long way.
And just to set the scenes, Sam, where in the world are you
calling from?
So?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm calling from and I apologize for the accent I'm
calling from a town calledToowoomba, which is about a
90-minute drive from Brisbane,Australia.
So the state Queensland, thesunny state of Queensland, yeah,
it's still summer here.
It's still summer, it's stillnice.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's super cool.
The joys of technology andthings like that.
It's 11am for me, it's nine forSam, but we can still get
together and connect.
And I just wanted to touch on afew things that you talked
about.
Sam, I've mentioned in otherepisodes but just bears
repeating.
The joys of podcasting A lot ofpeople see it.
You know there's too many andyou know sometimes there's some
(02:32):
negative aspects to it.
You know social media can bekind of a cruel thing, but
meeting, you know, new peopleand people you'd never get a
chance to meet.
Like I'm not strolling throughAustralia anytime soon, and so I
love the ability to meet otherpeople and talk to people that
you've never get a chance.
And I think you just never knowwhat stories and things are
going to connect with otherpeople.
You're like you know I'm notthat big of a deal or whatever,
(02:54):
but who knows?
You know, I think down the road,either we'll never know, or you
know, even down the road, years, like you know, you get a thank
you or something about a storyor or something about a story or
or something that was said like, oh, that became my mantra or
got me through a tough time.
I know a few times at work I'vehad that happen, you know, had
someone not say anything for ayear, year and a half, and then,
when they went to leave, likeyou were really important to me,
it's like I I didn't know thedifference, you know.
(03:15):
You know some of the things yousaid and just being there for
them.
So let's start, uh, with thewarm-up.
Sam, what's one piece of adviceyou wish you had received
earlier about mental health?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
That it's not weak to get help.
Coming from Australia, like Iwas raised in the 90s, just
showing my age here, you knowyou never really reached out for
help.
You were struggling.
We didn't really have a wordfor it really growing up as a
male, and if you were going togonna get help it just seemed
(03:46):
like yeah, there was a negativestigma to it, so really deterred
myself and others.
So you know you didn't want tobe seen weak.
I like to think things havechanged since since then and we
can get into that right up.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But yes, if you're getting help, it's not weak,
yeah I think that's one thingthat's just so odd to me.
That's why I that's just so oddto me.
That's why I was really happyto come to the conclusion of the
title of the podcast.
I bounced around with a coupleideas.
I really wanted to go withsheerious conversations that
play off my name.
But one I didn't want it to beabout me because that's not the
point, and two I didn't want toseem like I was poking fun at
something that is very important.
(04:20):
So I didn't go that direction.
But mental fitness was superimportant to me because I'd
heard it on the Simon Soneikshow a little bit of optimism
and it's something that'songoing and I love that aspect
of fitness to it.
It's just so bizarre to me Likewe will go and you know you
have to run three or four timesa week for cardio and that's
normal, but for some reason weget to mental health.
(04:42):
It's you only check into thatbuilding and talk to that person
on the worst day of your life.
That's not the intent.
The intent is to offload thingsand process things as we go.
So I'm glad you bring that up.
I think that's a super goodreminder.
It's not the worst day, it'snot weak.
It's awesome to process and getthrough those things.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Next question how do to you know, process and get
through those things?
Next question how do youpersonally recharge after
emotionally heavy conversations?
I meditate.
I do about 10 minutes a day,sometimes twice a day.
I've been doing that for almostnine years.
I go to the gym to exercise.
I journal I've only juststarted journaling as well, so
that's kind of new but justwriting down my thoughts, my
(05:23):
feelings and talking to my wifeas well, that's good, like
debriefing with her, findingthat safe place as well.
I feel like that's been reallyessential and in my journey and
when I have a big day orsomething like that, like a big
emotional day, especially fromwork as well, I feel like I can
talk to my wife, or I can hitthe gym or I can meditate.
(05:45):
I can do all four if I need to.
Yeah, it's been an ongoingthing that I don't think I can
rely on one.
I have to rely on many, I feel.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, and I think that's good.
You had just said it's not weakand I think, like you had said
before, I think it's becomingmore mainstream and more normal,
and that's really why one ofthe reasons I want to start the
show losing my grandma as a kid,you know she had bottled things
up with her mental health andnone of the grandkids knew what
was going on or anything likethat.
That's not the way it should be.
So it's awesome to have theshow and you know, I've heard
(06:16):
journaling and meditation on theshow multiple times and it
seems like it's, you know,getting easier and easier to
talk about and and process thosethings.
I'm curious, though like I wantto start journaling.
I actually added it to my phone.
It like gives me a reminder todo my thoughts.
What does that kind of looklike for you?
Do you just open thread or like, do you have prompts?
Is it just word vomit?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
it's way vomit, it's open thread.
I feel like at the first I justkind of held back and I was
like no, no, no, like it's Like,it's just me, like I'm just
going to write down what I want,no, it's not for anyone, it's
for myself.
So I felt like at the start Iwas yeah, I was probably like
kind of like a little cute, liketoday was a good day, not much
happened.
But then I was like who'ssaying this?
(06:57):
Like no one's you.
So I just it's like no, justword vomit.
Like it's also like a good wayof just venting to yourself.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, I feel Nice.
That's awesome Good stuff.
Well, everyone that's listeningstart journaling, because it's
almost on every episode, I thinknow journaling comes up, so
it's obviously good stuff.
Last question for you, Justcurious your background.
What background?
What inspired you to become anadvocate for mental health and
domestic violence awareness?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, I'll start with mental health.
A bit like yourself, nate, myfamily also suffer from mental
health.
Both my parents have depression.
So growing up and I'vementioned this on previous
podcasts growing up wasn't easy.
I felt like it was like walkingon eggshells sometimes both my
parents, you know, and I didn'treally know what to do.
So it's always kind of beenthere and going through it
(07:48):
myself, bottling it up, puttingit to the side.
I put it on the back burner.
I never addressed it until Iwas about 30, 31, and that's
when I started getting help andI thought no, well, I'm not the
only one.
I feel like others also areexperiencing mental health.
(08:09):
So big advocate for that,because I'm not the only one
that's going through this.
I feel like there's I couldn'ttell you, thousands, millions of
people in the same positionDomestic violence.
So in my job, as I said before,I see a lot of see a lot of
things.
I see a lot of people thatperpetrate family domestic
(08:30):
violence towards others.
I feel like a little bit ties inwith mental health.
If some people had that help,or they reached out for help, or
if they regulated theiremotions better, they saw a
therapist or they meditated orwhatever they wouldn't be
lashing out, they wouldn't betaking it out on others.
It's a huge problem inAustralia, probably a huge
(08:52):
problem in the world, and it'saffecting a lot of people and I
feel like, as a male myselfspeaking up is significant and
there's people struggling,there's people needing help and
I feel like if I can raiseawareness, if I can reach out
for someone, then you know,that's something at least, like
I'm trying to get people madeaware that there are people like
(09:14):
men that are perpetratedviolence.
They need help as well.
So I'm not trying to put themdown.
I'm trying to say that allparties need help respectively.
I'm trying to say that allparties need help respectively.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, I think that's a super, super good reminder,
especially like you know all thetime and effort that we put
into putting the shows togetherand things like that.
I know sometimes people arelike, oh, you know, how do you
find time and things like that.
But I think if you save, youknow, one person that was going
to make a permanent decision,you know they're still in the
(09:44):
world and helping other peopleand whatnot.
Like that's already worth allthe time in the world.
So hopefully, you know thestories will connect and things
like that.
I think it's really important.
I like that you're, you know,touching on men, because we had
talked about that in the verybeginning.
Like it seems like pullyourself up by your bootstraps
and all these things that we'vesaid for the longest things.
You're just supposed to own itand you know not have as much
feelings.
It seems like it goes, and soit's good that you know we're
able to process and get throughsome of that.
(10:10):
One question I wanted to ask youlike I would love to be a
therapist and whatnot, because Italk more than I should,
probably, and I love, you know,hanging out with people, but one
thing I think I would reallystruggle with.
So I'm curious from yourstandpoint, being in the
position you are, are in like Idon't think I don't know if I'd
be able to process like losing aperson or you know someone
coming back time and time again,and not like learning and
growing and whatnot.
(10:31):
Do you have someone that you'veseen, like you know, fall down
and make the mistake over andover and like, how do you
process?
Is that just frustrating or howdo you feel about that?
Or do you have one that's kindof a repeat person?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I've got many, obviously like disheartening it
can be, but, um, I've got twoboys.
Right, I'll put it in this way.
I've got two boys and it's abit like this that you know they
do something wrong or dosomething naughty, they're not
listening, tell them no, andthey keep doing it and then
eventually they'll get it.
(11:03):
You know, eventually, and Ifeel like with people on parole,
or you know people that aren'tcommunity-based orders, the
people I supervise.
You know, um, you hope that,okay, this time didn't work, so
next time.
And then you know, if they comeback or, like you know, from
jail and they haven't learned,and you go okay, how about we
(11:25):
try another way?
Or what happened?
Okay, what can we do better?
Or how could you have handledthat better?
And I feel like patience isobviously a big thing.
You've got to realize thateveryone is human, everyone's
going to make mistakes.
But the biggest thing is youdon't really know someone until
you speak to them and you don'treally know how they got into
(11:49):
that situation unless theyexplain it.
You know, you don't know whatthey've been through like the
trauma which we'll probably talkabout later but or what they've
been through and they probablyjust don't know, or they
probably don't have theeducation or the support that
some people have for them, sothey might just need that bit of
extra help.
And if they're showing smallsteps, just like kids, you know,
(12:11):
if they show those small stepsthat they're improving, it's, in
a way, gratifying.
So, yeah, it can be veryfrustrating.
Time after time I've seen thesame people.
But you know, if they'reshowing a little bit of signs or
the smallest steps, it's, it'squite good.
Like you, I feel so good aboutthat and that's one of the
reasons why I've started the jobso long.
(12:31):
Like it's just so good to seesomeone making, if it's the
slightest change, yeah, it's,it's.
It's so graphic, it's hard toexplain, but yeah, it's so
gratifying because you feel like, yep, they're learning or
they're doing things right orthey're doing things a little
bit better.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, I think that's a good thing for life too.
I guess I I should have thoughtof that that way.
You look at like james clearand his book atomic habits or
things like that, where you talkabout one percent better.
Or just I say at work, a lot oftimes I just try to make less
mistakes than the day before,like I'm not looking for a
stellar day every time.
If I could just not do somedumb things that I did the day
before, I'll kind of count thatas a win.
(13:07):
So yeah, that's good.
I like that.
I like how you said that,because I think a lot of times
we want these big things and bigwins, but the small wins add up
and the small wins get you tobig wins.
You know that motivation tofeel good throughout the time.
So I'm awesome, that's awesome.
(13:29):
You brought that up.
I think that's a good reminder.
Everyone should remember thesmall, small wins.
Another thing I wanted to touchon and then I got sidetracked
because that's how my brainworks.
But the negative aspects oflife I love that you brought
that up where you're able toconnect, because at work I'll
bring up you know that I've beendivorced and I co-parent and I
lost my dad and you know I'vegone through these difficult
things losing most of mygrandparents and things like
that and I don't bring him up tobe like negative and bring down
the mood of the section Right.
(13:51):
But I hope that those you knowbridge the gap Like I never.
To me it seems like a diss,disservice and a complete waste.
If I went through somethingdifficult and I can't help
somebody along the way, thatmeans I it just sucked to suck
and that's not fun, that's,that's, that's awful, right, and
so I feel like if I've gonethrough something difficult, I
want to use that and hopefully,even if it's not to solve
(14:13):
someone else's problem, but justthe empathy, to sit in the
space with them and know likethere's some terrible things
that happen and we'll, you know,get through it it.
But before we get into the meatof the interview, I wanted to
see, sam, if you have a questionfor me.
I do.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
If you could live in any song, what would it?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
be oh, any song, oh geez, I'm gonna say holiday by
madonna.
That way, uh, I'm on holidayand I don't have as much
responsibilities and I'mconstantly on vacation, which is
probably a cop-out, but that'sthe first thing I can think of.
So, holiday, holiday, thatholiday, that's what I'm doing.
I'm living in the holiday byMadonna.
(14:50):
Good answer, sam.
Your three main pillars.
First one is raising awarenessand mental health.
This one, I think I probablyknow the direction you're going
to go, but we'll see.
What are the biggestmisconceptions about mental
health that still exist today.
I feel like what you touchedbefore.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Like you know, you go to the gym regularly and you
know you work on your cardio,you work on your strength or
whatever, and you keep doing itto get stronger, faster,
whatever.
People go to counseling ortherapy or see a psychologist
once and sometimes they feellike, oh, I'm healed.
Um, I just recently was told ifyou hear someone say I'm healed
(15:28):
, it's a red flag.
So I feel like a misconceptionis it's an ongoing thing and if
you, if you feel like you'rehere, you're probably not so
doing regular things for yourmental health, as you said, like
we should be more proactivethan reactive, just because we
go to the gym and we you knowall we're exercising doesn't
(15:49):
mean we're like for our physicalhealth, doesn't mean we, we
can't do that for our mentalhealth.
So like we do one thing, likewe see a therapist or we journal
, we meditate once, doesn't meanthat we're done.
We're we always should be goodfor the next 20, 30 years.
No, no, we got to keep thatgoing.
Things are good, keep that up.
So I think that's a bigmisconception as well.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
That reminds me the other day my wife had a session.
I was at work and she had hersduring the day and I was like,
oh, how was your session today?
She's like it was tough.
And I was like, oh, okay, she'slike it was great and she's
like it was great and like samething right like digging deep,
getting through some stuff,pressing on, and so hers was
almost synonymous right withlike tough meaning like getting
(16:30):
through some stuff.
It wasn't necessarily fun atthe time, but rewarding, and I
think that's with a lot ofthings actually just posted on
facebook.
On wednesday it was myanniversary, eighth wedding
anniversary with my lovely wifeand she thank you.
She scheduled some Thai massagesand during the massage I got
elbows and knees in my back andyou know at the time, like I can
(16:52):
barely breathe, like this ispainful, but then I realized
like you come out and you're alittle more limber, you feel
good, it releases some toxins,you know all those things.
But you got to go through thedifficult times and I think
that's like core to life, likeyou're going to have good things
but it's not for no, you know,at no cost.
You go through the elbows andknees and your back and then you
(17:13):
know you feel a little bitbetter because I got the knots
out or whatnot.
So but yeah, that's a good one.
I like that.
I'm curious, sam.
You know it's a big issue, it'scultural, you know it's
probably across the whole world,but what do you think are some
ways we can shift theconversation to reduce the
stigma?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
just being more open, men becoming more vulnerable I
mean all people becoming morevulnerable.
Like I have a problem I have.
I'm learning now through thisjourney but I've always had a
problem opening up, becomingvulnerable to people.
Um, I've always found it hardto talk about things that If we
(17:51):
be more open towards gettinghelp or talking to others or
getting support, it can reallymake a difference or it can lose
that stigma.
So I guess if we normalize it,I guess in everyday
conversations or at theworkplace, I think that would go
a long way.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, I think that's something I hope we get to at
some point, like with this showand your show and just having
more conversations.
I don't know what the answer isbecause I think it's a huge
issue, but yeah, I think it'sbizarre.
Like you know, you talk aboutthe gym and everyone will tell
you their whole routine.
Like I got back and buystonight you know I'm doing three
by 10, but I don't hear toomany people.
(18:31):
I'm going to go sit in a parkand meditate or something.
That should be the same thing.
Let's just do the same thing.
I have a new routine.
I got a new notebook forjournaling or whatever it may be
.
That should have that same hypeand be able to have that same
conversations.
The next question I had werepractical ways to support your
own mental health.
(18:52):
You talked about journaling andmeditating.
Do you have any other thingsfor practical tips Finding that
safe?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
person I think is good, whether it's family or
friends, obviously, that's big.
I feel like if you can talk tosomeone that you feel safe with,
that you can feel vulnerablewith, that can go a long way.
Another one, obviously exercise, whether that's walking or
running or just the gym,whatever you do like contact
(19:19):
sport or sport in general.
I feel like that could help andin a way, that's a form of
meditating as well, if youreally think about it.
But yeah, you will never feelbad or feel horrible if you do a
good workout or a good run.
I feel afterwards you won'tfeel angry, definitely, or you
won't feel upset.
You might feel sore, but that'syou know.
(19:40):
That's the the thing with umexercise yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I was at the gym this week and it was interesting.
The personal trainer kind ofmentioned that and we were
talking about the parallelsbetween meditating and weight
lifting and we were talkingabout know you hold your breath
or you exhale at different timesand you know you're at the
bottom and it's painful and yougot to get yourself up out of
the squat or you know whatevermaneuver you're doing.
But it was kind of interestinghow we talked about there's a
(20:05):
lot of parallels.
Basically, weightlifting ismeditating, depending on you
know how you do it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
So that's awesome.
The last question I had for youyou did touch on it a little
bit, like in Australia andgrowing up, but just curious, if
you had anything else, like howneed help males?
They could just white knuckleit and just bury it, because if
you're getting therapy or ifyou're getting help, you're weak
.
So I think that stigma isprobably a little bit still
there, but hopefully it'schanging and we're heading in
towards the right direction.
So I feel like in a likedefinitely in australia, I think
we're heading in the rightdirection.
More people are getting morehelp than ever before.
Like I feel that's definitelygood, like definitely a long way
to go with this Since COVID.
(21:00):
I think everything changed thenthat people were more open
about their struggles and moreopen of getting help.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, I hope that we're able to connect with
others too, because we knowthere's not enough mental health
professionals in the world.
We just can't keep up with thedemand.
I know me, being a hospitaladministrator, like I hear that
all the time but it's you know,throughout the UK and US,
australia, you know throughoutthe world there's not enough and
so I think, like you mentionedthat safe space a wife or friend
or whatever it is you can makethat call and process at the
(21:31):
lowest level and offload itbefore you know.
Obviously there's larger thingslike trauma, which we'll get
into here, that you know needsthat professional.
But if you can have that lowestlevel and have that safe space,
I think that really helpsoffload those things before you
get to that really difficultthing.
The next pillar Sam you have isanti-domestic violence and
family advocacy.
(21:51):
So what are some warning signsthat someone is in an abusive
home?
This is a tricky one.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I guess that each one is different, like each one is
unique, but I guess one is ifthat person is withdrawn,
they're not themselves, they'reacting a bit shy or different.
So that's a sign and they mightbrush things off or they might
be very evasive or dismissive inconversations.
(22:16):
That's probably, uh, like,probably the the most common one
.
I mean, each one's so different.
But like, yeah, like think thatone.
If you notice them, you knowbeing a bit more scattered, or
you know, because there'sprobably trouble at home, you
know they're probably not,they're probably not feeling
safe, or they probably can'ttalk.
(22:38):
They probably feel very scaredthat they can be open, so
they're feeling very paranoidtoo, or they feel like they
can't talk to anyone, so feelingthat they're controlled,
they're being monitored, so thatthat's pretty hard to like know
as well.
So being like being in, like uma person, sorry, if you know
(22:59):
someone or if you feel likesomeone is experiencing it,
always just have no judgment.
Just be impartial and just belike I'm here for you.
If you need anything, I'm herefor you.
Just be there, whether it'sjust an ear or if they need help
, if it could be in the middleof the night, just offer that
Just be like, you can stay withme if you need it or if you need
(23:21):
me to take you somewhere.
I think that's probably thebest thing you can do for
someone experiencing family ordomestic violence at home,
because they might feel tooscared to go to the police or
feel too scared to go anywhere.
So I feel like if you justremind them, hey, I'm always
here if anything happens.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, that's something I'm curious about.
So, from you know, TV andmovies obviously those are, you
know, not real and I've neverlived through it, but it seems
like a lot of times the personfeels trapped and scared and
things like that.
So how do you kind of get themto break that cycle, Because I
feel like they, you know, don'tbelieve they're able to start
(23:58):
new or they're not able to breakfree and things like that.
How does that transition go?
Or how do you convince peopleto like maybe make a fresh start
?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, again, that's a tricky one, but I feel like
probably the best way is to justsay there's help out there,
like you don't have to feel likeyou're trapped.
Just remind them you knowthere's police, there's special
units in the police that I knowthat help.
There's services.
You know victim services outthere, they can help.
Just remind them that they'renot alone too.
(24:30):
Like I feel like it's it's hard, yeah, like you know, deal with
this a lot, but just, yeah,just have to remind like that
there is help, and then whenthey do, then it's a whole thing
.
Like it can be different foreach situation, but police get
involved or the.
There's like non-governmentservices that get involved, like
(24:50):
which are very helpful.
They're very, very helpful.
Like they can help with likeaccommodation or food or stuff
like that, um, or help them moveif they need.
So put protection orders in aswell, restraining orders in,
like with the courts as well.
So if that is anything, I feellike that's something for help.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm sure there's a lot ofcomplex issues, I mean when kids
are involved in other things.
So sure it gets more and more.
I'm curious from yourstandpoint.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Growing up in a difficult home like what's
something that you didn'tunderstand until much later I
thought I was like the only onegoing through it, yeah, and I
thought I was the only one withlike a mental, like my parents
having mental health issues, um,and look, I love my mom and dad
.
Like don't get me wrong it, youknow.
I just didn't know that thereare other people out there and
(25:45):
with with similar situations.
Like would you agree foryourself?
You've?
You know, I hope you don't mindme asking like you've had a
similar situation.
Like did you feel like you werethe only?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
one, yeah, yeah, and that's another reason, uh, that
I started the show.
I think that's what helps us.
We get the word out, we sharestories and then you're like, oh
yeah, other people, even ifit's not exactly the same, even
if it's parallel, you alreadyfeel better that someone else.
And it sounds weird like youdon't want someone else to
suffer because you suffered,like that's not the intent, but
(26:16):
just to know that someone else.
And I think, going back toCOVID, like you mentioned
earlier, everyone isolated, wewere stuck inside, we weren't
sure what was going on and youjust felt like I'm the only one.
And maybe that's why people aregetting more help, cause we all
went through this terriblething, even though we were stuck
in our houses.
We went through it somewhat asa as a world, I guess, and we
got to the other side, we gotour two or three shots and now
(26:39):
we've kind of moved on.
I saw my shot card the other day.
I was like geez, I rememberthat shot card.
I carry the thing everywhere.
But yeah, I love that youmentioned that.
I'm so appreciative that youmentioned like.
I think that's where thedarkness of mental health really
comes from, like losing mygrandma, I think same thing,
like she can't talk to anybody,she's the only one and that's
what you believe.
You believe you're the only one.
(27:00):
And I remember, like when Ilost my dad, like I couldn't
think of anybody to call, likeit was just the worst feeling
that I've ever experienced, justfeeling like you're there,
you're stuck in it.
And so that's why I think, likethe support groups even though
I'm sure they're uncomfortableto go and like share stories
with other people, like that'sreally how you do get through it
.
You hear other people and sharethose experiences.
(27:20):
Like if anyone's listening tothe show, you are not the first
person to ever go through thatthing.
That's pretty much impossible.
You'd have to be one in eightbillion or whatever the number
is.
Like it's not.
And even if it's exactly youand only you, you there is
someone that's very similar tothat that'll be able to hold
that space and sit with you andmaybe say nothing at all, just
know that they've been in asimilar situation.
(27:42):
So, sam, yeah, that's awesome.
The last question I had for youis do you have any ideas if you
were king for the day, as theysay, right?
What policy changes or shiftsare needed to help protect
victims?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
there probably has to be more support with, like
getting them another house orlike like, I guess, housing or
food or stuff like that, becausethere's like a shortage of
housing in australia as well.
So I think that trends, and youknow there's what you mentioned
before.
The complexity of kids, too,like that plays a whole
(28:16):
different part in it, becauseyou know how do you share
custody as well, so like it'shard.
But if you could ease thattransition for like housing, I
feel like could be a lot easier,like if you help someone move,
but then that raises like a lotof other issues, I feel as well.
(28:36):
So like you need a few, youneed a few, yeah that raises the
taxes that no one wants to pay.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.
The next one you got isemotional intelligence.
I think this is the first timeon the show, so that'll be
interesting.
Nice, nice.
Why do you think emotionalintelligence?
Intelligence is essential forhealing and personal growth.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I feel like it's important to be aware of your
emotions, to be aware of howyou're you're feeling and if you
find yourself triggered or youfind yourself doing something
like my boss always says to me,check yourself before you wreck
yourself.
And I still struggle with itsometimes.
(29:21):
Becoming aware of your emotionsand knowing other people's
emotions is essential in thatday-to-day life going through
life, going through work, goingthrough family situations,
knowing what your boundary is aswell, knowing there might be
(29:41):
something that someone says andyou don't know how to act, or it
might trigger something fromthe past and you don't know how
to.
You might react so unexpectedly.
So knowing how to manage that,or knowing that you can identify
what's going on in youremotions and how other people
(30:03):
are, I feel is a day-to-daypractice, or it should be an
everyday thing.
I think it's funny, it shouldbe it should be everyday thing.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I think it's funny there's so many like common
phrases we use all the time andit's some reason we don't like
stop and actually think of whatthey mean or actually put them
into practice.
Cause I think of this alwaysmakes me think of like put
yourself in someone else's shoes, like we say that or walk a
mile, but we don't like stop anddo it Like you had mentioned
way back.
(30:29):
Like you see the homelessperson on the side of the road
and you're like, oh, they'rejust asking for money and you
know they're worthless and allthese things or whatnot.
And you were saying likeactually talk to the person,
like how did they get there?
What happened?
Like they could have been, youknow, just like you with a job
and everything was fine, andthen they lost their job, or you
know they got injured, or oryou know long list of things.
(30:49):
So I think putting yourself inother people's shoes is is super
important.
Do you have like a technique?
Do you just kind of pause andcount to five?
Or like how do you kind of stopbefore you?
You said you're still kind ofstruggling, but are there.
You know techniques you use tokind of slow down, I think um,
obviously, yeah, count to fivebackwards, like five, four, yeah
(31:10):
.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
and then I also this is a new one I've done like I
put my tongue in between my butagain I press my tongue against
my teeth, like that, and then Itry and say my name, which makes
like no noise, like yeah, so,and I'm like oh, and it just
gives me that couple of secondsto be like okay, yeah, and then
also a good one is just takingmaybe one or two steps back,
(31:35):
like just that physical presenceof moving backwards so that you
can become more aware of yourbody or more aware of your
emotions, gives you also thatsecond of like okay, what am I
doing?
All right, how am I feeling?
Yes, I'm checking myself beforeI wreck myself.
So that is probably my main one.
I do, I, I, even if it's ifyou're sitting in a chair, if
(31:57):
you just move your chair justslightly, slightly backwards,
just it just brings thatawareness of your body too
that's interesting, I had neverthought of that.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
That's cool like the smallest things.
That'll, you know, reset andget you squared away.
I was uh curious.
You had talked earlier about,um, emotional intelligence and
whatnot.
One thing I thought about waswe talk about like a fight over
the dishes or taking the trashout, and people will say it's
not actually about the dishes.
(32:28):
Uh, so how can emotionalintelligence help prevent
abusive behavior withinrelationships?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I think, if you, if you're fighting over something
like that, yeah, putting thedishes away or something like
that, and there's there'sobviously something else going
on.
Maybe you need to talk to thatperson or even, like, find out
what's really bothering you orwhat's being triggered, becoming
(32:59):
aware of.
Is it just the dishes, thatsomething's triggering you, or
is it something else and you'rebeing bothered, like, are you
irritated by everything or areyou irritated by that person
asking you, I think, reallygetting to the to the crux of,
like, what is actually botheringyou, because, yeah, you're not
going to get angry over someoneor those dishes, it's
(33:22):
something's bothering, botheringyou deep down inside you.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
so, finding that time , whether it's meditatingaling
or just even talking to thatsafe person or talking to
someone about how this isbothering me and I don't know
why- I hate to put you on thespot, sam, but do you have any
stories from work obviouslywithout the names and things,
but of emotional intelligencewhere someone wasn't able to
(33:48):
kind of see how they werefeeling and then later on, like
I was able to look internallyand now like I have better
relationships and things likethat, like an actual story to
show how that plays out?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
yeah, I've got one and obviously I won't say any
names.
So I had this guy on perale andI had him for a long, long time
and you know I would see himregularly every month or so.
Anyway, one day I was about tosee him and he was waiting for
me in the like in the waitingroom and I had this awful
conversation with someone else.
Like they just got up me and Iwas like I was like, oh well,
(34:21):
that wasn't necessary, like theywere taking out of me and I
just didn't feel easy.
And then this guy you know whoI'd seen for a while.
I he was waiting and waitingand I was on the phone and he'd
been waiting a while.
I, he was waiting and waitingand I was on the phone, he'd
been waiting a while and I waslike, all right, I better better
see him.
So I didn't, I didn't take thattime to deregulate my emotions
and I just went in raw, raw,dogged it, as the kids say it
(34:43):
and then I just went in to theto him and we're going through
what, what we normally say andwhat we talk about, like I do my
check-ins and I see how he'straveling and I do what I've got
to do, and then I started toget a bit gnarky with him and I
started to get a little bit bittense with him and he was like
whoa, you're all right.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine,I'm fine.
(35:05):
He's like no, you're not,because I I've known him for
years, right, he's been onparole for years and he knew my
personal, I knew his personality, he knew my personality.
And I and he said, are you sure?
And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine,let's get on with this.
And then he stopped me again andsaid no, you're not yourself.
And I was like sorry, I'm justhaving a bad day, I'm really
sorry to take it out on you.
So, like, using myself as anexample, like I didn't take that
(35:29):
five or ten minutes to talk tosomeone, debrief about someone
or just meditate or just checkmyself, because I just went into
that, that interview, stillupset with another phone call,
like still angry at this phonecall I had and it got me fired
up and I'm like I'll deal withit later and I didn't.
(35:49):
I just took it out on that guyand I felt horrible.
I apologize to him later, afterthe interview, but or during
the interview, sorry, I shouldsay.
But yeah, that's a clearexample and you know, it
probably happens in a lot ofjobs and a lot of people, would
you?
Speaker 1 (36:04):
agree?
Oh yeah, definitely.
I was just listening to a callat work on people that move into
the squadron commander role,which is like a mid-level, I
guess, leadership managementrole, and one of the questions
they'd ask is like what'ssomething you wish you would
have known earlier or something.
But it was that ability to takea breath because, like, the
choices you make at that levelas a squadron commander impacts
(36:25):
someone's career and their lifeand so they could have family
and so you can actually take payfrom them or, you know, demote
them and take away their rank,and that also impacts money and
things like that.
So it's one of the first levelswhere you have the ability to
change the course of someone'slife.
So they were saying you know,take the breath.
If it's not like a safetyconcern, like you know,
obviously safety, you got tostep in and you got to fix
(36:46):
things like there's somethingelse you can do right, but if
it's not safety, sleep on it forthe night.
You know, call legal, callother people that have people
that are in the same situation.
We have what's called status ofdiscipline, so it's like where
people get in trouble and youcan kind of see what the going
rate is for a certain punishment, so that no one's too far out
of line for one specificpunishment.
(37:06):
But I thought that was a reallygood thing, where we always
talk about faster and better andyou know, doing things more
efficiently.
But that was one of the firsttimes I've heard like patience,
the opposite, like slow down.
The thing that you can do ispretty irreversible, like once
you demote or you know, dowhatever you do to a person, you
can't really go back, like youmight be able to fix it
administratively, but you'vemade the impact Right, and so I
(37:33):
thought taking a breath was itwas pretty cool and I think that
would help.
Like you said, you know,transition to the next thing,
maybe you take your couple stepsback or you know whatnot and be
able to to move forward.
But I thought that wasimportant.
So, yeah, I totally agree withthat.
We got one question from yourbonus pillar.
I'm curious how has traumashaped your personal mental and
mental and emotional well-being?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I have to go a little , a little deep here.
So I feel like it's like it'sum, it's been a lot so like
going through this mental healthjourney I've been doing the
last whatever how long I've.
It's brought up a lot of traumain my life that I've
experienced, but I've neverreally told anyone, with one
being that when I was a child Iwas molested on a school camp.
(38:16):
I didn't tell anyone about it.
You know, I've only just in thelast few years that I've just
talked about, like started totell people about it and you
know, about my parents havingdepression, not that I want
everyone to know like I've hadthe worst life or you know, but
it wasn't easy, you know.
(38:36):
Like you know I I'm not sayingit was a bad life, it just
wasn't easy.
Um, you know you're sayingbefore people build up stuff,
you know they push things downand they just get on with life
and we don't know and I feltlike I did that for a number of
years Other things as well, youknow, and hurt people, hurt
(38:58):
people.
I don't know if you've heardthat saying I've taken out like
emotional baggage on people andit's not fair.
It's not fair on them, it's notfair on myself, you know, not
opening up, not telling people,hey, I'm actually really
struggling here, or hey, thishappened to me when I was a kid
or this happened to me growingup and that like not saying like
(39:21):
it would have helped me, butlike it would have cured me or
whatever.
But it probably would have mademe a bit more open or a bit
like skewed, because I was solike, I was so negative for a
while, like I just felt likelike I was the only one and why,
why, why do I have to get, whydo I have to be through this?
(39:41):
Like why, why am I the only onebeing hurt?
Why am I the only one that'shad this?
you know no one's.
No one knows what I'm goingthrough.
And it wasn't until later in my30s like started when I was 30,
that I was like I need to talkto someone, I need to reach out,
I need to get help and becomemore open, more vulnerable about
(40:06):
myself and just being true tomyself as well.
Like, if you're true toyourself, if you're being open
with yourself as well, then Ifeel like and what you were
saying before like even if oneconversation from your podcast
or Michael's podcast or whateverrelates with someone, then they
can then be open as well.
(40:26):
If someone's listening to thisand they can take something away
from us, nate, they can be like, well, you know what?
It's okay to be open or it'sokay to know that you're
struggling.
There's someone out there thatcan lend an ear or that can just
listen and talk and be thatplace.
I really like what you said justbe that place.
Like you're not exactly goingto have the exact same trauma or
(40:50):
experience with someone, butlike, hey, like you know what
I'll, I'll share that space withyou if you just you just want
me to be there and just if youwant to talk or if you just want
to stay in silence.
But you know, I'll just bethere for you and I love what
I've heard that from your otherepisodes as well.
Like a big fan of your show, bythe way, I should tell you that,
like I'm a big fan, I've beenlistening to all your episodes
(41:12):
and, yeah, like thank you, yeah,it's, you do a great job.
So, yeah, I feel like traumashapes people uniquely, but it
can it can skew people verynegatively.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, I think that's one thing that holds people back
and so I try to bring that upin the different episodes and
hopefully you know it will reachout to people is you don't have
to have the perfect words.
I think in a lot of times youdon't need words at all.
I think we sit there and we'relike, oh, we're not going to sit
with them, I'm going to feelawkward.
I'm going to feel this If yousit with the person I mean, I'm
not a trained professional, I donot have a mental health degree
(41:46):
but I am pretty certain theywill feel better if you share
the space with them.
If that's over coffee, if that'swherever it may be, at a
sporting event, you know,whatever it may be.
But I think that's, you know,so difficult, like I don't know
what to say and I don't know howto make them feel better.
Sitting there will probablymake them feel better, like you
had said, being apprehensive onsharing your story and things
(42:07):
like that.
But I'm sure at this point, nowthat you've shared this very
dark and difficult thing, I'msure people have been able to
connect with you more right 100%.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
What about yourself?
Do you feel like being moreopen about and I'm really sorry
about your grandmother and yourdad, by the way, I should have
said that at the start but beingmore open about your struggles
and your inner demons?
Do you feel like it's helpedyou?
It's helped?
Speaker 1 (42:33):
inner demons.
Do you feel like it's helpedyou?
It's helped.
Yeah, I think it's definitelyhelped with the connection
because I'm an officer in theair force and so you know you
have this like pedestal and thisgap between enlisted and
officers which kind of drives menuts, like one of us got a
degree and one of us didn't likeI know there has to be
structure and there has to besome level of respect, right,
but we're all people, we're all,we're all going through things
and so I love you know now, likeI said earlier, I share that I
(42:55):
you know the divorce and theco-parenting of these difficult
things.
So when people have to leave orit was weird, sir they're like
you will have no bad days I'mlike that's insane.
Like we all have bad days.
They want us to be this likekind of facade of being perfect.
But like I have been able toconnect with people way better
ever since I think it was likethe first year or two I kind of
(43:16):
held this uptight and tried tobe the person I was quote,
unquote supposed to be, but then, once I started opening up,
like Brene Brown and, you know,being vulnerable and things like
that I have had a way betterreception and being able to
connect with people.
And I have lifelong friends,I'm pretty sure, from some of
these things where if I wouldhave been you know the uptight I
wouldn't have been able toconnect and, you know, be there
(43:38):
for them.
And I just reflect back on thatit doesn't suck for no reason.
Like that doesn't make sense tome.
I just can't wrap my headaround that and justify that it
sucked so that I could helpsomebody.
That is the value of the suck.
Like it's not gonna just beterrible.
I just can't believe that wewere meant to go through
difficult times for no reason.
I just don't believe it.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
I love that.
I absolutely love that, like,you went through this hard time,
maybe, or whoever put you onthis earth, or whoever you
believe in so you could helpothers, or that you could share
your story, or myself as well,or whoever others, or that you
could share your story, or ormyself as well, or whoever like
people on this podcast that wecan help others.
I love that.
I absolutely love that.
I might have to steal it offyou, but no that that was really
(44:20):
cool and like what being yourtrue self as well, would you say
, being more authentic, beingyour authentic self as well like
I couldn't imagine at when youfirst started in the military.
Was it like you would?
You wouldn't be.
You could be yourself.
You couldn't be your honestself.
That would be.
Yeah, I know it was.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
It was funny, like I didn't even realize I was just
playing the part I thought Ineeded to and then, like, then I
start smiling and joking andlaughing and being the real and
it just all snaps back.
So I kind of find it funnywhere it's like I thought I
could do it and I don't believeit's real.
I don't.
Maybe you can do it for threemonths a year.
You could do it for a while, Ithink, but like you're just
going to end up back where youare.
(44:59):
So just don't, just don't fakeit.
There's no point you can't.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah.
So, sam, let's try to bring itall together.
If listeners could take onething away from today's
conversation, what would youhope it would be?
It's okay that you're not okay.
Just remember that there'salways someone there that you
can get help, reach out,whatever like talk to.
You can have that person there,whether you want to just have
coffee what you said before.
But if you're having upsettingfeelings or you feel like you're
not coping, just remember thatthat's okay.
But there is help.
(45:37):
There is someone out there thatcan help, or you know you're
not alone.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
It's okay to not be okay.
That's a good reminder and agreat note.
So, Sam, where can peopleconnect with you to learn more
about you and your work?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
So I've got a podcast , you me in a podcast.
It's you know, on all reputableplatforms.
So you know, just search it ifyou want.
And it's, you know, on myinstagram.
It's on instagram as well.
So yeah, please check it outsounds good.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Well, sam, thank you for coming out.
Everyone out there.
I'd love your input.
Share your questions orfeedback on any of the various
social media platforms oranywhere you get your podcasts.
Please drop a review If you cantake a few minutes.
You know, hit that five stars,that'd be pretty cool.
I love you all.
See ya, thank you.
Welcome everyone.
I'm Nate Shearer, your host,and this is Mindforce, a podcast
that's all about love, life andlearning.
Here, your mind matters.
Today we'll be talking aboutraising awareness in mental
health, anti-domestic and familyviolence, emotional
intelligence and trauma.
So let's start with thebackground.
Let's start with a quickintroduction.
(00:43):
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Who are you, what do you do andwhat brings you here today.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Journey myself and started a podcast about four
months ago and, in a way, longstory short, I started it for my
own mental health, getting toknow people, because I love
(01:11):
talking to people, getting tolove how people go through life,
what struggles I've beenthrough, what challenges I've
been through and, um, I guess ithelps me and it helps them.
So it's yeah, it's brought mehere really to, I guess, get to
know you and you get to know methrough this journey we call
life, which I've heard you quoteon your previous podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, there's no handbook, there's no guide.
We're just trying to getthrough this crazy thing called
life, and I think you know theconnections we have, and helping
each other is really, you know,the key to it.
It's probably oversimplified,but I mean.
Kindness to another personreally goes a long way.
And just to set the scenes, Sam, where in the world are you
calling from?
So?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm calling from and I apologize for the accent I'm
calling from a town calledToowoomba, which is about a
90-minute drive from Brisbane,Australia.
So the state Queensland, thesunny state of Queensland, yeah,
it's still summer here.
It's still summer, it's stillnice.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's super cool.
The joys of technology andthings like that.
It's 11am for me, it's nine forSam, but we can still get
together and connect.
And I just wanted to touch on afew things that you talked
about.
Sam, I've mentioned in otherepisodes but just bears
repeating.
The joys of podcasting A lot ofpeople see it.
You know there's too many andyou know sometimes there's some
(02:32):
negative aspects to it.
You know social media can bekind of a cruel thing, but
meeting, you know, new peopleand people you'd never get a
chance to meet.
Like I'm not strolling throughAustralia anytime soon, and so I
love the ability to meet otherpeople and talk to people that
you've never get a chance.
And I think you just never knowwhat stories and things are
going to connect with otherpeople.
You're like you know I'm notthat big of a deal or whatever,
(02:54):
but who knows?
You know, I think down the road,either we'll never know, or you
know, even down the road, years, like you know, you get a thank
you or something about a storyor or something about a story or
or something that was said like, oh, that became my mantra or
got me through a tough time.
I know a few times at work I'vehad that happen, you know, had
someone not say anything for ayear, year and a half, and then,
when they went to leave, likeyou were really important to me,
it's like I I didn't know thedifference, you know.
(03:15):
You know some of the things yousaid and just being there for
them.
So let's start, uh, with thewarm-up.
Sam, what's one piece of adviceyou wish you had received
earlier about mental health?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
That it's not weak to get help.
Coming from Australia, like Iwas raised in the 90s, just
showing my age here, you knowyou never really reached out for
help.
You were struggling.
We didn't really have a wordfor it really growing up as a
male, and if you were going togonna get help it just seemed
(03:46):
like yeah, there was a negativestigma to it, so really deterred
myself and others.
So you know you didn't want tobe seen weak.
I like to think things havechanged since since then and we
can get into that right up.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But yes, if you're getting help, it's not weak,
yeah I think that's one thingthat's just so odd to me.
That's why I that's just so oddto me.
That's why I was really happyto come to the conclusion of the
title of the podcast.
I bounced around with a coupleideas.
I really wanted to go withsheerious conversations that
play off my name.
But one I didn't want it to beabout me because that's not the
point, and two I didn't want toseem like I was poking fun at
something that is very important.
(04:20):
So I didn't go that direction.
But mental fitness was superimportant to me because I'd
heard it on the Simon Soneikshow a little bit of optimism
and it's something that'songoing and I love that aspect
of fitness to it.
It's just so bizarre to me Likewe will go and you know you
have to run three or four timesa week for cardio and that's
normal, but for some reason weget to mental health.
(04:42):
It's you only check into thatbuilding and talk to that person
on the worst day of your life.
That's not the intent.
The intent is to offload thingsand process things as we go.
So I'm glad you bring that up.
I think that's a super goodreminder.
It's not the worst day, it'snot weak.
It's awesome to process and getthrough those things.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Next question how do to you know, process and get
through those things?
Next question how do youpersonally recharge after
emotionally heavy conversations?
I meditate.
I do about 10 minutes a day,sometimes twice a day.
I've been doing that for almostnine years.
I go to the gym to exercise.
I journal I've only juststarted journaling as well, so
that's kind of new but justwriting down my thoughts, my
(05:23):
feelings and talking to my wifeas well, that's good, like
debriefing with her, findingthat safe place as well.
I feel like that's been reallyessential and in my journey and
when I have a big day orsomething like that, like a big
emotional day, especially fromwork as well, I feel like I can
talk to my wife, or I can hitthe gym or I can meditate.
(05:45):
I can do all four if I need to.
Yeah, it's been an ongoingthing that I don't think I can
rely on one.
I have to rely on many, I feel.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, and I think that's good.
You had just said it's not weakand I think, like you had said
before, I think it's becomingmore mainstream and more normal,
and that's really why one ofthe reasons I want to start the
show losing my grandma as a kid,you know she had bottled things
up with her mental health andnone of the grandkids knew what
was going on or anything likethat.
That's not the way it should be.
So it's awesome to have theshow and you know, I've heard
(06:16):
journaling and meditation on theshow multiple times and it
seems like it's, you know,getting easier and easier to
talk about and and process thosethings.
I'm curious, though like I wantto start journaling.
I actually added it to my phone.
It like gives me a reminder todo my thoughts.
What does that kind of looklike for you?
Do you just open thread or like, do you have prompts?
Is it just word vomit?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
it's way vomit, it's open thread.
I feel like at the first I justkind of held back and I was
like no, no, no, like it's Like,it's just me, like I'm just
going to write down what I want,no, it's not for anyone, it's
for myself.
So I felt like at the start Iwas yeah, I was probably like
kind of like a little cute, liketoday was a good day, not much
happened.
But then I was like who'ssaying this?
(06:57):
Like no one's you.
So I just it's like no, justword vomit.
Like it's also like a good wayof just venting to yourself.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, I feel Nice.
That's awesome Good stuff.
Well, everyone that's listeningstart journaling, because it's
almost on every episode, I thinknow journaling comes up, so
it's obviously good stuff.
Last question for you, Justcurious your background.
What background?
What inspired you to become anadvocate for mental health and
domestic violence awareness?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, I'll start with mental health.
A bit like yourself, nate, myfamily also suffer from mental
health.
Both my parents have depression.
So growing up and I'vementioned this on previous
podcasts growing up wasn't easy.
I felt like it was like walkingon eggshells sometimes both my
parents, you know, and I didn'treally know what to do.
So it's always kind of beenthere and going through it
(07:48):
myself, bottling it up, puttingit to the side.
I put it on the back burner.
I never addressed it until Iwas about 30, 31, and that's
when I started getting help andI thought no, well, I'm not the
only one.
I feel like others also areexperiencing mental health.
(08:09):
So big advocate for that,because I'm not the only one
that's going through this.
I feel like there's I couldn'ttell you, thousands, millions of
people in the same positionDomestic violence.
So in my job, as I said before,I see a lot of see a lot of
things.
I see a lot of people thatperpetrate family domestic
(08:30):
violence towards others.
I feel like a little bit ties inwith mental health.
If some people had that help,or they reached out for help, or
if they regulated theiremotions better, they saw a
therapist or they meditated orwhatever they wouldn't be
lashing out, they wouldn't betaking it out on others.
It's a huge problem inAustralia, probably a huge
(08:52):
problem in the world, and it'saffecting a lot of people and I
feel like, as a male myselfspeaking up is significant and
there's people struggling,there's people needing help and
I feel like if I can raiseawareness, if I can reach out
for someone, then you know,that's something at least, like
I'm trying to get people madeaware that there are people like
(09:14):
men that are perpetratedviolence.
They need help as well.
So I'm not trying to put themdown.
I'm trying to say that allparties need help respectively.
I'm trying to say that allparties need help respectively.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, I think that's a super, super good reminder,
especially like you know all thetime and effort that we put
into putting the shows togetherand things like that.
I know sometimes people arelike, oh, you know, how do you
find time and things like that.
But I think if you save, youknow, one person that was going
to make a permanent decision,you know they're still in the
(09:44):
world and helping other peopleand whatnot.
Like that's already worth allthe time in the world.
So hopefully, you know thestories will connect and things
like that.
I think it's really important.
I like that you're, you know,touching on men, because we had
talked about that in the verybeginning.
Like it seems like pullyourself up by your bootstraps
and all these things that we'vesaid for the longest things.
You're just supposed to own itand you know not have as much
feelings.
It seems like it goes, and soit's good that you know we're
able to process and get throughsome of that.
(10:10):
One question I wanted to ask youlike I would love to be a
therapist and whatnot, because Italk more than I should,
probably, and I love, you know,hanging out with people, but one
thing I think I would reallystruggle with.
So I'm curious from yourstandpoint, being in the
position you are, are in like Idon't think I don't know if I'd
be able to process like losing aperson or you know someone
coming back time and time again,and not like learning and
growing and whatnot.
(10:31):
Do you have someone that you'veseen, like you know, fall down
and make the mistake over andover and like, how do you
process?
Is that just frustrating or howdo you feel about that?
Or do you have one that's kindof a repeat person?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I've got many, obviously like disheartening it
can be, but, um, I've got twoboys.
Right, I'll put it in this way.
I've got two boys and it's abit like this that you know they
do something wrong or dosomething naughty, they're not
listening, tell them no, andthey keep doing it and then
eventually they'll get it.
(11:03):
You know, eventually, and Ifeel like with people on parole,
or you know people that aren'tcommunity-based orders, the
people I supervise.
You know, um, you hope that,okay, this time didn't work, so
next time.
And then you know, if they comeback or, like you know, from
jail and they haven't learned,and you go okay, how about we
(11:25):
try another way?
Or what happened?
Okay, what can we do better?
Or how could you have handledthat better?
And I feel like patience isobviously a big thing.
You've got to realize thateveryone is human, everyone's
going to make mistakes.
But the biggest thing is youdon't really know someone until
you speak to them and you don'treally know how they got into
(11:49):
that situation unless theyexplain it.
You know, you don't know whatthey've been through like the
trauma which we'll probably talkabout later but or what they've
been through and they probablyjust don't know, or they
probably don't have theeducation or the support that
some people have for them, sothey might just need that bit of
extra help.
And if they're showing smallsteps, just like kids, you know,
(12:11):
if they show those small stepsthat they're improving, it's, in
a way, gratifying.
So, yeah, it can be veryfrustrating.
Time after time I've seen thesame people.
But you know, if they'reshowing a little bit of signs or
the smallest steps, it's, it'squite good.
Like you, I feel so good aboutthat and that's one of the
reasons why I've started the jobso long.
(12:31):
Like it's just so good to seesomeone making, if it's the
slightest change, yeah, it's,it's.
It's so graphic, it's hard toexplain, but yeah, it's so
gratifying because you feel like, yep, they're learning or
they're doing things right orthey're doing things a little
bit better.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, I think that's a good thing for life too.
I guess I I should have thoughtof that that way.
You look at like james clearand his book atomic habits or
things like that, where you talkabout one percent better.
Or just I say at work, a lot oftimes I just try to make less
mistakes than the day before,like I'm not looking for a
stellar day every time.
If I could just not do somedumb things that I did the day
before, I'll kind of count thatas a win.
(13:07):
So yeah, that's good.
I like that.
I like how you said that,because I think a lot of times
we want these big things and bigwins, but the small wins add up
and the small wins get you tobig wins.
You know that motivation tofeel good throughout the time.
So I'm awesome, that's awesome.
(13:29):
You brought that up.
I think that's a good reminder.
Everyone should remember thesmall, small wins.
Another thing I wanted to touchon and then I got sidetracked
because that's how my brainworks.
But the negative aspects oflife I love that you brought
that up where you're able toconnect, because at work I'll
bring up you know that I've beendivorced and I co-parent and I
lost my dad and you know I'vegone through these difficult
things losing most of mygrandparents and things like
that and I don't bring him up tobe like negative and bring down
the mood of the section Right.
(13:51):
But I hope that those you knowbridge the gap Like I never.
To me it seems like a diss,disservice and a complete waste.
If I went through somethingdifficult and I can't help
somebody along the way, thatmeans I it just sucked to suck
and that's not fun, that's,that's, that's awful, right, and
so I feel like if I've gonethrough something difficult, I
want to use that and hopefully,even if it's not to solve
(14:13):
someone else's problem, but justthe empathy, to sit in the
space with them and know likethere's some terrible things
that happen and we'll, you know,get through it it.
But before we get into the meatof the interview, I wanted to
see, sam, if you have a questionfor me.
I do.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
If you could live in any song, what would it?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
be oh, any song, oh geez, I'm gonna say holiday by
madonna.
That way, uh, I'm on holidayand I don't have as much
responsibilities and I'mconstantly on vacation, which is
probably a cop-out, but that'sthe first thing I can think of.
So, holiday, holiday, thatholiday, that's what I'm doing.
I'm living in the holiday byMadonna.
(14:50):
Good answer, sam.
Your three main pillars.
First one is raising awarenessand mental health.
This one, I think I probablyknow the direction you're going
to go, but we'll see.
What are the biggestmisconceptions about mental
health that still exist today.
I feel like what you touchedbefore.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Like you know, you go to the gym regularly and you
know you work on your cardio,you work on your strength or
whatever, and you keep doing itto get stronger, faster,
whatever.
People go to counseling ortherapy or see a psychologist
once and sometimes they feellike, oh, I'm healed.
Um, I just recently was told ifyou hear someone say I'm healed
(15:28):
, it's a red flag.
So I feel like a misconceptionis it's an ongoing thing and if
you, if you feel like you'rehere, you're probably not so
doing regular things for yourmental health, as you said, like
we should be more proactivethan reactive, just because we
go to the gym and we you knowall we're exercising doesn't
(15:49):
mean we're like for our physicalhealth, doesn't mean we, we
can't do that for our mentalhealth.
So like we do one thing, likewe see a therapist or we journal
, we meditate once, doesn't meanthat we're done.
We're we always should be goodfor the next 20, 30 years.
No, no, we got to keep thatgoing.
Things are good, keep that up.
So I think that's a bigmisconception as well.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
That reminds me the other day my wife had a session.
I was at work and she had hersduring the day and I was like,
oh, how was your session today?
She's like it was tough.
And I was like, oh, okay, she'slike it was great and she's
like it was great and like samething right like digging deep,
getting through some stuff,pressing on, and so hers was
almost synonymous right withlike tough meaning like getting
(16:30):
through some stuff.
It wasn't necessarily fun atthe time, but rewarding, and I
think that's with a lot ofthings actually just posted on
facebook.
On wednesday it was myanniversary, eighth wedding
anniversary with my lovely wifeand she thank you.
She scheduled some Thai massagesand during the massage I got
elbows and knees in my back andyou know at the time, like I can
(16:52):
barely breathe, like this ispainful, but then I realized
like you come out and you're alittle more limber, you feel
good, it releases some toxins,you know all those things.
But you got to go through thedifficult times and I think
that's like core to life, likeyou're going to have good things
but it's not for no, you know,at no cost.
You go through the elbows andknees and your back and then you
(17:13):
know you feel a little bitbetter because I got the knots
out or whatnot.
So but yeah, that's a good one.
I like that.
I'm curious, sam.
You know it's a big issue, it'scultural, you know it's
probably across the whole world,but what do you think are some
ways we can shift theconversation to reduce the
stigma?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
just being more open, men becoming more vulnerable I
mean all people becoming morevulnerable.
Like I have a problem I have.
I'm learning now through thisjourney but I've always had a
problem opening up, becomingvulnerable to people.
Um, I've always found it hardto talk about things that If we
(17:51):
be more open towards gettinghelp or talking to others or
getting support, it can reallymake a difference or it can lose
that stigma.
So I guess if we normalize it,I guess in everyday
conversations or at theworkplace, I think that would go
a long way.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, I think that's something I hope we get to at
some point, like with this showand your show and just having
more conversations.
I don't know what the answer isbecause I think it's a huge
issue, but yeah, I think it'sbizarre.
Like you know, you talk aboutthe gym and everyone will tell
you their whole routine.
Like I got back and buystonight you know I'm doing three
by 10, but I don't hear toomany people.
(18:31):
I'm going to go sit in a parkand meditate or something.
That should be the same thing.
Let's just do the same thing.
I have a new routine.
I got a new notebook forjournaling or whatever it may be
.
That should have that same hypeand be able to have that same
conversations.
The next question I had werepractical ways to support your
own mental health.
(18:52):
You talked about journaling andmeditating.
Do you have any other thingsfor practical tips Finding that
safe?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
person I think is good, whether it's family or
friends, obviously, that's big.
I feel like if you can talk tosomeone that you feel safe with,
that you can feel vulnerablewith, that can go a long way.
Another one, obviously exercise, whether that's walking or
running or just the gym,whatever you do like contact
(19:19):
sport or sport in general.
I feel like that could help andin a way, that's a form of
meditating as well, if youreally think about it.
But yeah, you will never feelbad or feel horrible if you do a
good workout or a good run.
I feel afterwards you won'tfeel angry, definitely, or you
won't feel upset.
You might feel sore, but that'syou know.
(19:40):
That's the the thing with umexercise yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I was at the gym this week and it was interesting.
The personal trainer kind ofmentioned that and we were
talking about the parallelsbetween meditating and weight
lifting and we were talkingabout know you hold your breath
or you exhale at different timesand you know you're at the
bottom and it's painful and yougot to get yourself up out of
the squat or you know whatevermaneuver you're doing.
But it was kind of interestinghow we talked about there's a
(20:05):
lot of parallels.
Basically, weightlifting ismeditating, depending on you
know how you do it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
So that's awesome.
The last question I had for youyou did touch on it a little
bit, like in Australia andgrowing up, but just curious, if
you had anything else, like howneed help males?
They could just white knuckleit and just bury it, because if
you're getting therapy or ifyou're getting help, you're weak
.
So I think that stigma isprobably a little bit still
there, but hopefully it'schanging and we're heading in
towards the right direction.
So I feel like in a likedefinitely in australia, I think
we're heading in the rightdirection.
More people are getting morehelp than ever before.
Like I feel that's definitelygood, like definitely a long way
to go with this Since COVID.
(21:00):
I think everything changed thenthat people were more open
about their struggles and moreopen of getting help.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, I hope that we're able to connect with
others too, because we knowthere's not enough mental health
professionals in the world.
We just can't keep up with thedemand.
I know me, being a hospitaladministrator, like I hear that
all the time but it's you know,throughout the UK and US,
australia, you know throughoutthe world there's not enough and
so I think, like you mentionedthat safe space a wife or friend
or whatever it is you can makethat call and process at the
(21:31):
lowest level and offload itbefore you know.
Obviously there's larger thingslike trauma, which we'll get
into here, that you know needsthat professional.
But if you can have that lowestlevel and have that safe space,
I think that really helpsoffload those things before you
get to that really difficultthing.
The next pillar Sam you have isanti-domestic violence and
family advocacy.
(21:51):
So what are some warning signsthat someone is in an abusive
home?
This is a tricky one.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I guess that each one is different, like each one is
unique, but I guess one is ifthat person is withdrawn,
they're not themselves, they'reacting a bit shy or different.
So that's a sign and they mightbrush things off or they might
be very evasive or dismissive inconversations.
(22:16):
That's probably, uh, like,probably the the most common one
.
I mean, each one's so different.
But like, yeah, like think thatone.
If you notice them, you knowbeing a bit more scattered, or
you know, because there'sprobably trouble at home, you
know they're probably not,they're probably not feeling
safe, or they probably can'ttalk.
(22:38):
They probably feel very scaredthat they can be open, so
they're feeling very paranoidtoo, or they feel like they
can't talk to anyone, so feelingthat they're controlled,
they're being monitored, so thatthat's pretty hard to like know
as well.
So being like being in, like uma person, sorry, if you know
(22:59):
someone or if you feel likesomeone is experiencing it,
always just have no judgment.
Just be impartial and just belike I'm here for you.
If you need anything, I'm herefor you.
Just be there, whether it'sjust an ear or if they need help
, if it could be in the middleof the night, just offer that
Just be like, you can stay withme if you need it or if you need
(23:21):
me to take you somewhere.
I think that's probably thebest thing you can do for
someone experiencing family ordomestic violence at home,
because they might feel tooscared to go to the police or
feel too scared to go anywhere.
So I feel like if you justremind them, hey, I'm always
here if anything happens.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, that's something I'm curious about.
So, from you know, TV andmovies obviously those are, you
know, not real and I've neverlived through it, but it seems
like a lot of times the personfeels trapped and scared and
things like that.
So how do you kind of get themto break that cycle, Because I
feel like they, you know, don'tbelieve they're able to start
(23:58):
new or they're not able to breakfree and things like that.
How does that transition go?
Or how do you convince peopleto like maybe make a fresh start
?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, again, that's a tricky one, but I feel like
probably the best way is to justsay there's help out there,
like you don't have to feel likeyou're trapped.
Just remind them you knowthere's police, there's special
units in the police that I knowthat help.
There's services.
You know victim services outthere, they can help.
Just remind them that they'renot alone too.
(24:30):
Like I feel like it's it's hard, yeah, like you know, deal with
this a lot, but just, yeah,just have to remind like that
there is help, and then whenthey do, then it's a whole thing
.
Like it can be different foreach situation, but police get
involved or the.
There's like non-governmentservices that get involved, like
(24:50):
which are very helpful.
They're very, very helpful.
Like they can help with likeaccommodation or food or stuff
like that, um, or help them moveif they need.
So put protection orders in aswell, restraining orders in,
like with the courts as well.
So if that is anything, I feellike that's something for help.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm sure there's a lot ofcomplex issues, I mean when kids
are involved in other things.
So sure it gets more and more.
I'm curious from yourstandpoint.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Growing up in a difficult home like what's
something that you didn'tunderstand until much later I
thought I was like the only onegoing through it, yeah, and I
thought I was the only one withlike a mental, like my parents
having mental health issues, um,and look, I love my mom and dad
.
Like don't get me wrong it, youknow.
I just didn't know that thereare other people out there and
(25:45):
with with similar situations.
Like would you agree foryourself?
You've?
You know, I hope you don't mindme asking like you've had a
similar situation.
Like did you feel like you werethe only?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
one, yeah, yeah, and that's another reason, uh, that
I started the show.
I think that's what helps us.
We get the word out, we sharestories and then you're like, oh
yeah, other people, even ifit's not exactly the same, even
if it's parallel, you alreadyfeel better that someone else.
And it sounds weird like youdon't want someone else to
suffer because you suffered,like that's not the intent, but
(26:16):
just to know that someone else.
And I think, going back toCOVID, like you mentioned
earlier, everyone isolated, wewere stuck inside, we weren't
sure what was going on and youjust felt like I'm the only one.
And maybe that's why people aregetting more help, cause we all
went through this terriblething, even though we were stuck
in our houses.
We went through it somewhat asa as a world, I guess, and we
got to the other side, we gotour two or three shots and now
(26:39):
we've kind of moved on.
I saw my shot card the other day.
I was like geez, I rememberthat shot card.
I carry the thing everywhere.
But yeah, I love that youmentioned that.
I'm so appreciative that youmentioned like.
I think that's where thedarkness of mental health really
comes from, like losing mygrandma, I think same thing,
like she can't talk to anybody,she's the only one and that's
what you believe.
You believe you're the only one.
(27:00):
And I remember, like when Ilost my dad, like I couldn't
think of anybody to call, likeit was just the worst feeling
that I've ever experienced, justfeeling like you're there,
you're stuck in it.
And so that's why I think, likethe support groups even though
I'm sure they're uncomfortableto go and like share stories
with other people, like that'sreally how you do get through it
.
You hear other people and sharethose experiences.
(27:20):
Like if anyone's listening tothe show, you are not the first
person to ever go through thatthing.
That's pretty much impossible.
You'd have to be one in eightbillion or whatever the number
is.
Like it's not.
And even if it's exactly youand only you, you there is
someone that's very similar tothat that'll be able to hold
that space and sit with you andmaybe say nothing at all, just
know that they've been in asimilar situation.
(27:42):
So, sam, yeah, that's awesome.
The last question I had for youis do you have any ideas if you
were king for the day, as theysay, right?
What policy changes or shiftsare needed to help protect
victims?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
there probably has to be more support with, like
getting them another house orlike like, I guess, housing or
food or stuff like that, becausethere's like a shortage of
housing in australia as well.
So I think that trends, and youknow there's what you mentioned
before.
The complexity of kids, too,like that plays a whole
(28:16):
different part in it, becauseyou know how do you share
custody as well, so like it'shard.
But if you could ease thattransition for like housing, I
feel like could be a lot easier,like if you help someone move,
but then that raises like a lotof other issues, I feel as well.
(28:36):
So like you need a few, youneed a few, yeah that raises the
taxes that no one wants to pay.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.
The next one you got isemotional intelligence.
I think this is the first timeon the show, so that'll be
interesting.
Nice, nice.
Why do you think emotionalintelligence?
Intelligence is essential forhealing and personal growth.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I feel like it's important to be aware of your
emotions, to be aware of howyou're you're feeling and if you
find yourself triggered or youfind yourself doing something
like my boss always says to me,check yourself before you wreck
yourself.
And I still struggle with itsometimes.
(29:21):
Becoming aware of your emotionsand knowing other people's
emotions is essential in thatday-to-day life going through
life, going through work, goingthrough family situations,
knowing what your boundary is aswell, knowing there might be
(29:41):
something that someone says andyou don't know how to act, or it
might trigger something fromthe past and you don't know how
to.
You might react so unexpectedly.
So knowing how to manage that,or knowing that you can identify
what's going on in youremotions and how other people
(30:03):
are, I feel is a day-to-daypractice, or it should be an
everyday thing.
I think it's funny, it shouldbe it should be everyday thing.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I think it's funny there's so many like common
phrases we use all the time andit's some reason we don't like
stop and actually think of whatthey mean or actually put them
into practice.
Cause I think of this alwaysmakes me think of like put
yourself in someone else's shoes, like we say that or walk a
mile, but we don't like stop anddo it Like you had mentioned
way back.
(30:29):
Like you see the homelessperson on the side of the road
and you're like, oh, they'rejust asking for money and you
know they're worthless and allthese things or whatnot.
And you were saying likeactually talk to the person,
like how did they get there?
What happened?
Like they could have been, youknow, just like you with a job
and everything was fine, andthen they lost their job, or you
know they got injured, or oryou know long list of things.
(30:49):
So I think putting yourself inother people's shoes is is super
important.
Do you have like a technique?
Do you just kind of pause andcount to five?
Or like how do you kind of stopbefore you?
You said you're still kind ofstruggling, but are there.
You know techniques you use tokind of slow down, I think um,
obviously, yeah, count to fivebackwards, like five, four, yeah
(31:10):
.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
and then I also this is a new one I've done like I
put my tongue in between my butagain I press my tongue against
my teeth, like that, and then Itry and say my name, which makes
like no noise, like yeah, so,and I'm like oh, and it just
gives me that couple of secondsto be like okay, yeah, and then
also a good one is just takingmaybe one or two steps back,
(31:35):
like just that physical presenceof moving backwards so that you
can become more aware of yourbody or more aware of your
emotions, gives you also thatsecond of like okay, what am I
doing?
All right, how am I feeling?
Yes, I'm checking myself beforeI wreck myself.
So that is probably my main one.
I do, I, I, even if it's ifyou're sitting in a chair, if
(31:57):
you just move your chair justslightly, slightly backwards,
just it just brings thatawareness of your body too
that's interesting, I had neverthought of that.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
That's cool like the smallest things.
That'll, you know, reset andget you squared away.
I was uh curious.
You had talked earlier about,um, emotional intelligence and
whatnot.
One thing I thought about waswe talk about like a fight over
the dishes or taking the trashout, and people will say it's
not actually about the dishes.
(32:28):
Uh, so how can emotionalintelligence help prevent
abusive behavior withinrelationships?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I think, if you, if you're fighting over something
like that, yeah, putting thedishes away or something like
that, and there's there'sobviously something else going
on.
Maybe you need to talk to thatperson or even, like, find out
what's really bothering you orwhat's being triggered, becoming
(32:59):
aware of.
Is it just the dishes, thatsomething's triggering you, or
is it something else and you'rebeing bothered, like, are you
irritated by everything or areyou irritated by that person
asking you, I think, reallygetting to the to the crux of,
like, what is actually botheringyou, because, yeah, you're not
going to get angry over someoneor those dishes, it's
(33:22):
something's bothering, botheringyou deep down inside you.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
so, finding that time , whether it's meditatingaling
or just even talking to thatsafe person or talking to
someone about how this isbothering me and I don't know
why- I hate to put you on thespot, sam, but do you have any
stories from work obviouslywithout the names and things,
but of emotional intelligencewhere someone wasn't able to
(33:48):
kind of see how they werefeeling and then later on, like
I was able to look internallyand now like I have better
relationships and things likethat, like an actual story to
show how that plays out?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
yeah, I've got one and obviously I won't say any
names.
So I had this guy on perale andI had him for a long, long time
and you know I would see himregularly every month or so.
Anyway, one day I was about tosee him and he was waiting for
me in the like in the waitingroom and I had this awful
conversation with someone else.
Like they just got up me and Iwas like I was like, oh well,
(34:21):
that wasn't necessary, like theywere taking out of me and I
just didn't feel easy.
And then this guy you know whoI'd seen for a while.
I he was waiting and waitingand I was on the phone and he'd
been waiting a while.
I, he was waiting and waitingand I was on the phone, he'd
been waiting a while and I waslike, all right, I better better
see him.
So I didn't, I didn't take thattime to deregulate my emotions
and I just went in raw, raw,dogged it, as the kids say it
(34:43):
and then I just went in to theto him and we're going through
what, what we normally say andwhat we talk about, like I do my
check-ins and I see how he'straveling and I do what I've got
to do, and then I started toget a bit gnarky with him and I
started to get a little bit bittense with him and he was like
whoa, you're all right.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine,I'm fine.
(35:05):
He's like no, you're not,because I I've known him for
years, right, he's been onparole for years and he knew my
personal, I knew his personality, he knew my personality.
And I and he said, are you sure?
And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine,let's get on with this.
And then he stopped me again andsaid no, you're not yourself.
And I was like sorry, I'm justhaving a bad day, I'm really
sorry to take it out on you.
So, like, using myself as anexample, like I didn't take that
(35:29):
five or ten minutes to talk tosomeone, debrief about someone
or just meditate or just checkmyself, because I just went into
that, that interview, stillupset with another phone call,
like still angry at this phonecall I had and it got me fired
up and I'm like I'll deal withit later and I didn't.
(35:49):
I just took it out on that guyand I felt horrible.
I apologize to him later, afterthe interview, but or during
the interview, sorry, I shouldsay.
But yeah, that's a clearexample and you know, it
probably happens in a lot ofjobs and a lot of people, would
you?
Speaker 1 (36:04):
agree?
Oh yeah, definitely.
I was just listening to a callat work on people that move into
the squadron commander role,which is like a mid-level, I
guess, leadership managementrole, and one of the questions
they'd ask is like what'ssomething you wish you would
have known earlier or something.
But it was that ability to takea breath because, like, the
choices you make at that levelas a squadron commander impacts
(36:25):
someone's career and their lifeand so they could have family
and so you can actually take payfrom them or, you know, demote
them and take away their rank,and that also impacts money and
things like that.
So it's one of the first levelswhere you have the ability to
change the course of someone'slife.
So they were saying you know,take the breath.
If it's not like a safetyconcern, like you know,
obviously safety, you got tostep in and you got to fix
(36:46):
things like there's somethingelse you can do right, but if
it's not safety, sleep on it forthe night.
You know, call legal, callother people that have people
that are in the same situation.
We have what's called status ofdiscipline, so it's like where
people get in trouble and youcan kind of see what the going
rate is for a certain punishment, so that no one's too far out
of line for one specificpunishment.
(37:06):
But I thought that was a reallygood thing, where we always
talk about faster and better andyou know, doing things more
efficiently.
But that was one of the firsttimes I've heard like patience,
the opposite, like slow down.
The thing that you can do ispretty irreversible, like once
you demote or you know, dowhatever you do to a person, you
can't really go back, like youmight be able to fix it
administratively, but you'vemade the impact Right, and so I
(37:33):
thought taking a breath was itwas pretty cool and I think that
would help.
Like you said, you know,transition to the next thing,
maybe you take your couple stepsback or you know whatnot and be
able to to move forward.
But I thought that wasimportant.
So, yeah, I totally agree withthat.
We got one question from yourbonus pillar.
I'm curious how has traumashaped your personal mental and
mental and emotional well-being?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I have to go a little , a little deep here.
So I feel like it's like it'sum, it's been a lot so like
going through this mental healthjourney I've been doing the
last whatever how long I've.
It's brought up a lot of traumain my life that I've
experienced, but I've neverreally told anyone, with one
being that when I was a child Iwas molested on a school camp.
(38:16):
I didn't tell anyone about it.
You know, I've only just in thelast few years that I've just
talked about, like started totell people about it and you
know, about my parents havingdepression, not that I want
everyone to know like I've hadthe worst life or you know, but
it wasn't easy, you know.
(38:36):
Like you know I I'm not sayingit was a bad life, it just
wasn't easy.
Um, you know you're sayingbefore people build up stuff,
you know they push things downand they just get on with life
and we don't know and I feltlike I did that for a number of
years Other things as well, youknow, and hurt people, hurt
(38:58):
people.
I don't know if you've heardthat saying I've taken out like
emotional baggage on people andit's not fair.
It's not fair on them, it's notfair on myself, you know, not
opening up, not telling people,hey, I'm actually really
struggling here, or hey, thishappened to me when I was a kid
or this happened to me growingup and that like not saying like
(39:21):
it would have helped me, butlike it would have cured me or
whatever.
But it probably would have mademe a bit more open or a bit
like skewed, because I was solike, I was so negative for a
while, like I just felt likelike I was the only one and why,
why, why do I have to get, whydo I have to be through this?
(39:41):
Like why, why am I the only onebeing hurt?
Why am I the only one that'shad this?
you know no one's.
No one knows what I'm goingthrough.
And it wasn't until later in my30s like started when I was 30,
that I was like I need to talkto someone, I need to reach out,
I need to get help and becomemore open, more vulnerable about
(40:06):
myself and just being true tomyself as well.
Like, if you're true toyourself, if you're being open
with yourself as well, then Ifeel like and what you were
saying before like even if oneconversation from your podcast
or Michael's podcast or whateverrelates with someone, then they
can then be open as well.
(40:26):
If someone's listening to thisand they can take something away
from us, nate, they can be like, well, you know what?
It's okay to be open or it'sokay to know that you're
struggling.
There's someone out there thatcan lend an ear or that can just
listen and talk and be thatplace.
I really like what you said justbe that place.
Like you're not exactly goingto have the exact same trauma or
(40:50):
experience with someone, butlike, hey, like you know what
I'll, I'll share that space withyou if you just you just want
me to be there and just if youwant to talk or if you just want
to stay in silence.
But you know, I'll just bethere for you and I love what
I've heard that from your otherepisodes as well.
Like a big fan of your show, bythe way, I should tell you that,
like I'm a big fan, I've beenlistening to all your episodes
(41:12):
and, yeah, like thank you, yeah,it's, you do a great job.
So, yeah, I feel like traumashapes people uniquely, but it
can it can skew people verynegatively.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, I think that's one thing that holds people back
and so I try to bring that upin the different episodes and
hopefully you know it will reachout to people is you don't have
to have the perfect words.
I think in a lot of times youdon't need words at all.
I think we sit there and we'relike, oh, we're not going to sit
with them, I'm going to feelawkward.
I'm going to feel this If yousit with the person I mean, I'm
not a trained professional, I donot have a mental health degree
(41:46):
but I am pretty certain theywill feel better if you share
the space with them.
If that's over coffee, if that'swherever it may be, at a
sporting event, you know,whatever it may be.
But I think that's, you know,so difficult, like I don't know
what to say and I don't know howto make them feel better.
Sitting there will probablymake them feel better, like you
had said, being apprehensive onsharing your story and things
(42:07):
like that.
But I'm sure at this point, nowthat you've shared this very
dark and difficult thing, I'msure people have been able to
connect with you more right 100%.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
What about yourself?
Do you feel like being moreopen about and I'm really sorry
about your grandmother and yourdad, by the way, I should have
said that at the start but beingmore open about your struggles
and your inner demons?
Do you feel like it's helpedyou?
It's helped?
Speaker 1 (42:33):
inner demons.
Do you feel like it's helpedyou?
It's helped.
Yeah, I think it's definitelyhelped with the connection
because I'm an officer in theair force and so you know you
have this like pedestal and thisgap between enlisted and
officers which kind of drives menuts, like one of us got a
degree and one of us didn't likeI know there has to be
structure and there has to besome level of respect, right,
but we're all people, we're all,we're all going through things
and so I love you know now, likeI said earlier, I share that I
(42:55):
you know the divorce and theco-parenting of these difficult
things.
So when people have to leave orit was weird, sir they're like
you will have no bad days I'mlike that's insane.
Like we all have bad days.
They want us to be this likekind of facade of being perfect.
But like I have been able toconnect with people way better
ever since I think it was likethe first year or two I kind of
(43:16):
held this uptight and tried tobe the person I was quote,
unquote supposed to be, but then, once I started opening up,
like Brene Brown and, you know,being vulnerable and things like
that I have had a way betterreception and being able to
connect with people.
And I have lifelong friends,I'm pretty sure, from some of
these things where if I wouldhave been you know the uptight I
wouldn't have been able toconnect and, you know, be there
(43:38):
for them.
And I just reflect back on thatit doesn't suck for no reason.
Like that doesn't make sense tome.
I just can't wrap my headaround that and justify that it
sucked so that I could helpsomebody.
That is the value of the suck.
Like it's not gonna just beterrible.
I just can't believe that wewere meant to go through
difficult times for no reason.
I just don't believe it.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
I love that.
I absolutely love that, like,you went through this hard time,
maybe, or whoever put you onthis earth, or whoever you
believe in so you could helpothers, or that you could share
your story, or myself as well,or whoever others, or that you
could share your story, or ormyself as well, or whoever like
people on this podcast that wecan help others.
I love that.
I absolutely love that.
I might have to steal it offyou, but no that that was really
(44:20):
cool and like what being yourtrue self as well, would you say
, being more authentic, beingyour authentic self as well like
I couldn't imagine at when youfirst started in the military.
Was it like you would?
You wouldn't be.
You could be yourself.
You couldn't be your honestself.
That would be.
Yeah, I know it was.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
It was funny, like I didn't even realize I was just
playing the part I thought Ineeded to and then, like, then I
start smiling and joking andlaughing and being the real and
it just all snaps back.
So I kind of find it funnywhere it's like I thought I
could do it and I don't believeit's real.
I don't.
Maybe you can do it for threemonths a year.
You could do it for a while, Ithink, but like you're just
going to end up back where youare.
(44:59):
So just don't, just don't fakeit.
There's no point you can't.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah.
So, sam, let's try to bring itall together.
If listeners could take onething away from today's
conversation, what would youhope it would be?
It's okay that you're not okay.
Just remember that there'salways someone there that you
can get help, reach out,whatever like talk to.
You can have that person there,whether you want to just have
coffee what you said before.
But if you're having upsettingfeelings or you feel like you're
not coping, just remember thatthat's okay.
But there is help.
(45:37):
There is someone out there thatcan help, or you know you're
not alone.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
It's okay to not be okay.
That's a good reminder and agreat note.
So, Sam, where can peopleconnect with you to learn more
about you and your work?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
So I've got a podcast , you me in a podcast.
It's you know, on all reputableplatforms.
So you know, just search it ifyou want.
And it's, you know, on myinstagram.
It's on instagram as well.
So yeah, please check it outsounds good.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Well, sam, thank you for coming out.
Everyone out there.
I'd love your input.
Share your questions orfeedback on any of the various
social media platforms oranywhere you get your podcasts.
Please drop a review If you cantake a few minutes.
You know, hit that five stars,that'd be pretty cool.
I love you all.
See ya, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!