March 12, 2025 • 51 mins
I would love to hear from you!
Today, we explore the transformative power of setting boundaries and the journey to self-discovery with self-love coach Nadia Hagen. Our discussion emphasizes personal growth, the courage to advocate for oneself, and why saying no can be an empowering act.
- Nadia shares her journey as a self-love coach
- The importance of recognizing and asserting personal boundaries
- Real-life stories illustrating courage in boundary-setting
- Strategies for managing the inner critic and self-doubt
- How identifying core personal values aids in decision-making
- Navigating relationships while maintaining authenticity
- Practical advice on how to say no kindly
- The impact of communicating boundaries effectively
- Encouragement to pursue authenticity in everyday life
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Thank you for watching.
Hi everyone, I'm Nate Shearerand this is MindForce.
Join us as we explore love,life and learning, because your
mind is what matters here Todaywe have Nadia Hagen, and today
(00:42):
we'll be talking about settinghealthy boundaries, determining
your value and intentionallycreating an aligned life, living
authentically and stopping yourinner critic and allowing your
ability to train your brain tobelieve in you.
So we'll start with the warm-upthe who, what, why, who are you
, what do you do and why are youhere?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Hello, nate, thank you so much for having me as a
guest on your show.
I'm Nadja Hagen.
As you said, I'm a self-lovecoach for high-achieving women
recovering from people-pleasing,and I help my clients to set
healthy boundaries andprioritize themselves so they
can intentionally create theirlives aligned with their values,
while building mutual andconnected relationships, and all
(01:24):
this without the need topretend to be someone they are
not.
So that's who I am, what I doand why do I do it.
Because I had to learn all thisstuff for myself and it was
actually a very long andchallenging route to take and I
wished I had someone like me 20years ago.
And you know, I had a day whereI woke up more or less and
noticed that I don't know asingle thing about me.
(01:47):
I was so busy pleasing otherpeople and meeting expectations
and doing the right thing that Icompletely lost myself along
the way.
And you know that's not a lifethat feels like yeah, I want to
go out of bed and yeah, I'mfulfilled.
That's like me.
No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
So that's the way I do what I do.
Much as humans will bediscomfortable and continue on.
We'll be in bad jobs, badrelationships and we'll kind of
just keep going Like we will putup with a lot of things where
we really need to stop and, youknow, turn and try something new
and get back on track, and soit's awesome that you found it
(02:40):
and were able to tweak that.
I don't think that.
You know, setting boundaries issomething that really comes
natural to us, which kind ofleads into the first warm-up
question what's a moment in yourlife where setting a boundary
felt like an act of courage, andhow did it change things for
you?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I had several acts of courage, but I can remember the
first one.
It was in my career context.
So I was still an employee andI started at a new job, a job I
was so happy to have, so I wasexcited about it.
And my new boss came to me andI was a project manager in the
software development industryand he came and he said Nadia,
(03:16):
we have this project and I needyou to have it ready in three
weeks.
I was saying I'm sorry, no way,we're not going to do it in
three weeks, weeks.
I was saying I'm sorry, no way,we're not going to do it in
three weeks.
And you know I can stillremember the look in his eyes
like how can she dare?
And I thought he's going tofire me.
He's going to fire me for beingso disobedient.
And I told him you know, Ipromise you we need six weeks.
(03:37):
But I promise you, after sixweeks you get your project, you
get it tested, everything willwork, everything will run
smoothly.
But if I tell him we're goingto make it in three weeks, then
I will come back to you and saywe will miss the deadline.
So what's the point of it?
And he was thinking a littlebit.
Maybe he gave me a chance, Idon't know.
But we had the project readyfour weeks later.
(03:58):
So two weeks earlier everythingworked and that was an act of
trust building.
But it took me a lot of courageto risk this new job and now I
could be instantly fired.
But for me it was the rightthing to do.
So here we are so did he comeback and say I'm glad you were
able to to set that, or wasthere any feedback later on no,
(04:20):
no, not that, but he neverquestions my again and that was
something that was so beautifuland it refers beautifully to
boundaries.
I might feel so uncomfortable,like an act of courage, if we
have to say no to something, butactually if we do and we stay
in our integrity, then we buildtrust massively.
And I never got questionedagain when we were talking about
(04:42):
deadlines because people knew Ideliver with my team, because
you know, the thing I did was Iwas talking to all team members
involved and we found a deadlinewhere everybody was standing
behind, so we made things workand having this trust was
definitely worth the coach.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, I think being able to communicate is really,
you know, powerful and gets thepoint across and make sure
you're on the same page.
I know previously I lived inJapan and it's interesting how
the cultures are different indifferent areas.
When we'd ask for things, theyalways wanted to try to, you
(05:26):
know, make sure they werepleasing and things like that.
So it kind of agreed toeverything and sometimes it was
not possible.
So you're like, oh, can you getit done this week?
Yeah, yeah, and then itwouldn't get done that week.
You're confused and so I was outthere for three years and so
the first year was kind ofconfusing.
But you kind of learn along theway.
They're just going to kind ofagree to the things that are
going on and you have to kind oflearn to figure out like stop
and pause and try to ask is thisactually realistic?
(05:48):
Can you help me understand?
And so you can get through thatcommunication because it'll
kind of agree.
So just different conflict ofverse and the way that different
people were raised, which I'msure we'll get into as we go
through.
The next question I had was tryto get a fun one.
If your questions or your sorry, your values were a playlist,
(06:08):
what would be the theme songthat represents your core
beliefs?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I do not have a specific song that comes to mind
, but it would probably besomething from Frank Sinatra,
something with a little bit ofmelancholy, a little bit of
sadness, a lot of hope, a lot ofplayfulness.
You can hear it over and overagain.
Never gets boring.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Classic.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, definitely something like this.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay, Frank Sinatra.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
What would be yours?
Do you have one?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Boy.
Mine would be.
I don't know what the songwould be, but something along
the lines of, you know, being alittle weird and dancing to my
own drum.
I think I've always kind ofdone it.
I've never done itintentionally.
It's something that I think isodd, because my little brother,
many years ago, mentioned likethat I always seem to do my own
thing and don't really, you know, concern with what other people
(07:03):
think, and I'd never reallythought of it.
I just kind of did whatever Iwanted, and so I've always been
a little weird, and so it wouldbe something about being weird,
which I don't even know ifthere's a song for that.
Yeah, I know, like as a kid youcould do like those theme song
things and try to pick one foryou.
I wish I could remember youknow what the theme song was for
(07:30):
my life.
I know that I did one based onwhat the number one song was
when you were born, and I thinkit was Santana.
I forget what that song iscalled.
It's the one with Santana andthe guy from Matchbox 21 or
Matchbox 11.
I can't remember Rob Thomas,that's his name, anyway.
So I think it'd be somethinglike like that.
I've always just kind of been alittle bit unique and different
and try to, you know, hopefullymake the world better for
everybody.
And then the last question Ihad for you what's the most
(07:54):
unusual or creative way youfound to silence your inner
critic?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
one usual way.
I think I'm more into effectiveways that's good something I
have learned is that you knowthe inner critic is.
It's a mean one, doesn't matterif it's a he or she, but this
thing never shuts up.
Sorry for my wording, no, that'sgood I think you know I don't
(08:24):
get it silenced completely, butwhat I've learned is that we all
do have it.
It's completely normal.
So it's not, and I think thethe turning point for me was to
learn that this is actually avoice in my head.
Sounds weird, but it's not me,you know, and I gave this voice
a place, so that's maybe a goodtip for the listeners too, when
(08:47):
I have this voice coming up orother voices.
I'm not, I'm mentally okay, sojust to let everybody know about
the voices in my head.
But I imagine having a long,big table and every voice gets a
place on this table and Iconsider them being consultants.
So even though the criticalvoice is mean and harsh,
(09:09):
sometimes there is a reasonbehind it and why we hear it so
pretty often it refers back tosituations we might not even
remember consciously anymore,but it tries to protect us, to
keep us safe.
So I try to listen not to themean things but to the reason
(09:29):
behind and get the gold out ofit.
And then I hear I listen to allmy consultants, the big tech
with all the voices, and, like aCEO, you have all your
consultants, you have all theexperts and you're listening to
their advice and then I'm makingmy decision, which is the right
decision for me, and sometimesI take them in account,
sometimes I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, I think that's pretty similar to like the
reason we have fear and otherthings.
I think that's something I'dlove to do an episode on at some
point, because we have fearbuilt in, because we used to be
caveman, we needed to avoiddanger, we needed to not get
hurt, and so I think a lot oftimes we are freaked out and
scared to try new things and,you know, lose our income and
(10:13):
try a new job or leave arelationship because it feels
comfortable, and all thosethings are built in from you
know, way, way back in the day.
But I think you know you got totake in all the information,
like you said, and then make thebest choice.
Fear might be one of thosethings at the table, but I think
you got to weigh all thedifferent things, because I
think a lot of times we look atthe here and now and it's like,
(10:35):
oh it's, it's scary now, but ifyou are in an uncomfortable job
or relationship and then youknow five or 10 years, you get
to look back and realize yourlife is, you know, a hundred
times better than you could haveimagined, even though it was
scary when you took that firststep.
Now that you've made the stepsand now you have a better life.
So that is interesting.
It's interesting how you knowdeep rooted and how far back
(10:57):
that goes with fear and otherthings.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I have to share something here, because
something that I've learned andthat was a seriously a game
changer is it's like, as we aredesigned, as you said, our brain
is actually not designed tomake us happy.
That's not our brain's task.
Our brain is in charge ofkeeping us alive and you know
(11:19):
when you're in a really badsituation bad job, bad
relationship, whatever it is butyou are still alive.
Your brain achieved its job.
You know, it knows.
Okay, I know everything that iscoming.
It's not comfortable, it'sreally bad, but we are surviving
in this.
So we're gonna stay here,because as soon as we move and
things are gonna change, I don'tknow if I will be able to keep
(11:39):
you alive.
And then I'm getting you knowall these nervous things, life
and then I'm getting you knowall those nervous things and
your brain doesn't like this.
So our brain was never designedto make us happy.
It's designed to keep us alive.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
That's a good note.
Yeah, different things fordifferent outcomes.
I guess If you need the logicaland the you know keeping you
alive, you go with the brain,but other times you got to go
with the heart, which I guessgoes back to your point on the
consultants at the table.
Like which one are you going to?
Maybe you got to listen to both, take the information as, make
the best decision and then moveforward.
(12:15):
And maybe sometimes it is thebrain and other times maybe the
heart.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
So to finish up the warmup, I wanted to see if you
have a question for me.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, I would love to know.
I think we will talk a littlebit about boundaries what is
your personal experience withsetting boundaries, saying no,
does it come easily, naturallyto you, or is it a challenge?
Is it always a challenge orsometimes?
And what do you think?
Why is it like it is?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
yeah.
So I would say I'm probablyawful at this.
Um, I love helping people soI'm definitely in like the
people pleasing and I think waytoo much on you know what people
are thinking and things likethat.
Even though earlier I said Idance to the beat of my own drum
, it really depends on thesituation and the environment
and the relationship and thingslike that.
Even though earlier I said Idance to the beat of my own drum
, it really depends on thesituation and the environment
and the relationship and thingslike that.
But yeah, I don't think this isan easy thing.
(13:04):
I don't think it's somethingthat's really ingrained.
It must be.
You know, as you were brought upor things like that, I was
alone with me and my mom as Iwas growing up, so it's kind of
her and I against the world andyou know struggling through
different you know apartmentsand welfare and different things
.
So I think that that bond fromthe beginning probably makes it
a little bit different when youknow we had to kind of stick
(13:26):
together and get through thingsto make it.
So I think you know, as wetalked about, the heart and the
brain probably resorted more to,like the mind and you know
surviving and getting throughthings.
I'd love to do a better job sohopefully, with the advice I
hear today, maybe I could do alittle better job.
But I'd like to say it doesn'tprobably come naturally.
I don't think I think this issomething that's kind of taught
(13:48):
and ingrained as you go along,because I think we probably
resort to surviving and justpushing on until you know you
have an aha or some type ofmoment where you wake up, like
you said, and and try to makethat change.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
That's what I would think thank you so much for
sharing this with me.
It's so interesting for me toalways get the insight how this
works for other people yeah,yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So we'll continue a little bit more on the setting
healthy boundaries.
Can you share a time whenestablishing a boundary
transformed a challengingrelationship or situation in
your life?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yes, there are a lot of.
I'm going to think about theone to pick.
I would say it changed therelationship.
That changed the most is therelationship I have to my
partner, because the more close,the more intimate a
relationship is, the moredifficult it becomes to say no.
Also, the more transformativeand a good way it becomes.
(14:47):
I have been 15 years ago.
I've been the absolute primeexample of a people pleaser.
So I would say yes even beforeyou've asked me, and I have
learned to, in a kind way, veryclearly and kindly express what
I feel and what I want.
And that doesn't mean everybodyhas to accommodate my wishes,
my needs, my wants.
(15:07):
But being able to show upauthentically and vulnerably and
, you know, have a little bit ofcourage, it's an act of courage
to show who you are, to say I'mhurt, actually, I'm sad, or I
feel lonely or there issomething I need, instead of oh,
I'm having everything together,everything is perfect.
Yes, of course you know thatchanges a relationship because
(15:28):
so often people who are peoplepleasing and saying yes all the
time, they think they need to dothis to build relationships, to
not be rejected and abandonedand all these things, whereas in
fact not being honest andauthentic hinders saying yes,
always hinders a true and mutualconnection, because only in the
(15:48):
moment when I show myself andI'm vulnerable and I'm human and
I'm you know, then I'm kind of.
In German we say you can get agrip on people, and it means you
can, you can really see them,you can start to feel them.
They become more real on anemotional level and that
actually enables the otherperson to decide do I want to
(16:12):
give her what she asked for?
Can I bring to the table whatshe needs?
Is it?
Are we on the same page?
And this truly transforms ourrelationship deeply.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, and that's one of the core reasons I think I
started the show.
I think we have stigmas and alot of bad thoughts of different
things, so I think mentalhealth as a as a whole is seen
as this negative thing, as someform of weakness.
And so I remember I wanted tostart the show and I went to a
suicide prevention class at workand they brought in a guy named
(16:47):
Robert Swanson.
He's retired now but he goesaround and he shares this story
and he's walking through thestory of this person that
attempted suicide not once buttwice, was not successful, had
kids, had a family, and then asthe story develops you realize
that it's him.
So he's telling his ownpersonal story and so at the end
(17:10):
he said one of the things I getasked all the time is how could
you get up there, how could youshare this story, how could you
be vulnerable?
That seems really awkward andwhatnot.
And like his answer I thinkI'll remember for the rest of my
life.
He said if I help one person,it's all worth it, and so I
think that's something that'ssuper powerful, because we see
(17:31):
this vulnerability as weak andopening up is weak, but that's
power.
He gets up there gets on thatstage and it's probably saved.
You know, however many people,even if it's only one I mean one
human saved is already amassive value.
So I hope that people start tounderstand that mental health is
important, getting taken careof is important and really, you
(17:53):
know, vulnerability is superimportant.
I remember, you know, being in aleadership position when I took
one of my first areas.
You know there seems to be agap between the leader and the
people and they're thinking youhave everything squared away and
you have everything figured out.
And it wasn't until I jotteddown some notes and I'd been in
there for a few months.
(18:14):
I came in, you know, I open upand say I've lost most of my
grandparents.
And you know I've gone througha divorce and I do, you know,
shared custody and all thesethings.
And I lost my dad, you know, afew years ago.
And I go through these thingsand it's like not to be this
negative, nancy, and bringeveryone down, which I don't do
it immediately Cause I don'twant to like freak.
(18:34):
You know the new section outright off the bat.
So I do the skim, the wave topsat the beginning and then,
three or four months in, go alittle bit deeper.
But I hope to make thatconnection because I know, you
know, we have a policy where wesay open door policy for the
leaders but like if they're sodisconnected you never really
want to go.
So I hope I bringing up some ofthose things, opening up a
(18:56):
little bit, being a littlevulnerable, like I'm just a
human too, like I'm in adifferent position, I have a
different role, I look at thingsa little bit different.
But after that, like human tohuman, I'm not saying I've seen
everything.
It's just a bridge, that gap.
So if you want to come in, sitdown, let's figure out, like, do
you just want to vent and getall this stuff out and go away,
or do you want to try to solveit?
(19:16):
We can start making phone callsand whatnot.
But I think vulnerability is sopowerful when it's not seen
that way.
Unfortunately it's just one ofthose old thoughts, right?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yes, absolutely.
You know I always say trust isnot a one way route.
If I want you to trust me, Ineed to have the courage to
start trusting you and give yousomething of me.
You know to let go of theperfect facade, of the perfect
image.
And you know the people who useour openness or vulnerability
(19:48):
to judge us.
They will judge us anyway, nomatter what we do, no matter
what we say, even if we arecompletely perfect.
I mean there, there are peopleout in this world and that was
an aha moment for me too whothink the 90s supermodels,
claudia Schiffer, she's ugly.
And I think, yeah, okay, ifsomebody finds Claudia Schiffer
ugly, okay.
(20:09):
So don't even try to makeeverybody happy, because no way.
And I think it's for those whodo not judge us for being
vulnerable for them, it allows,for them, it allows, you know,
it gives this feeling of I'm notthe only one, I'm not weird,
I'm not enough in some way, I'mnot insufficient or there's
(20:30):
nothing wrong with me, becauseit seems that other people have
the same challenges.
So maybe I'm just human, maybewe are all just human on a path
called life without the manual.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
maybe you have any advice?
Like no, not really.
Like, try your best to keepthem alive and you know,
(21:02):
whatever you feel you know isright at that given time, go for
it, because you're gonna hearyou know you got to wrap them.
Don't wrap them, put them ontheir back, put them on their
side.
Everyone's got their own.
So if you feel that's good, youknow, then go with it, because
I know, like the big one Iremember is the like co-sleeping
, like, oh, they should be inthe bed or not in the bed, in
the bassinet, like, if you feelcomfortable and you can take
(21:23):
care of it in whatever way, justdo it.
Because there's no.
I mean, there's been plenty ofbooks written on parenthood, but
I don't know if any of themhave it all, all squared away or
all right, it's just whateverworks at the time.
That, and I feel like they flipit all the time, even with us
as adults.
I feel like they flip it allthe time, even with us as adults
.
I feel like I've heard like, oh, red wine's good for you, it's
not good for you.
And then, like, chocolate wasgood for you, and then it wasn't
(21:43):
good for you, and oh my gosh,we can't even figure out what's
uh, what's right or not?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
and you know I think it comes down to, we are all so
different even though we have somuch in common.
But with the children I need tolaugh so hard because I thought
you know, as a coach and aslearning, so much about the
inner child and you know healthydevelopment, I thought I'm a
pro of raising kids before Ieven got one.
And then I became a mom and youknow, my daughter turned
(22:10):
everything, really everything,upside down.
The moment I think, no, I gotit, I figured it out.
Then she changes, she growswhatever it is, and I start from
zero.
And I think, no, I got it, Ifigured it out.
Then she changes, she growswhatever it is, and I start from
zero.
And I think you know what worksfor me.
And that applies to everything,not only our children, but we as
humans.
You know, with eating patterns,some people need more protein
(22:31):
than others and we're soindividual and we need to take
this into account.
The same with boundaries.
You know, what works for memight probably not work for you,
and it's about figuring outwhat's the right thing for me
and how does it work.
We can share our experiences,but at the same time, I think
(22:51):
it's important to stay open thatother people have a different
background, differentcharacteristics and therefore
different experiences anddifferent things that might work
for them.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I think that's another good example.
You were talking about notworrying about what other people
think, because I knowparenthood is funny.
You have people that aren'tparents yet and we give the
tablet or do different things,and people will be like I would
never give my kid a tablet.
I'll say, okay, well, you, yougo ahead and have one and then
you know they want yourattention 24, seven and you know
(23:25):
you'll see if you could make itand how long you can make it
before you need to give some TVor something so you can have a
moment to yourself.
But yeah, it's always funny fromthe outside and just so funny
how the kids are so different.
Like I remember, you know,having the girl and the girl
would, like, you know, slowlyget down and like slide off the
couch and be safe and, you know,make sure she got her feet on
(23:49):
the ground.
And the boy just tries to walkoff the couch of, like face
first, like off the end, likeone years old.
You can just tell immediatelylike they're nothing the same
and that's all the way back towhen they could barely walk.
You're immediately like this isnot the same.
So whatever rule I had for thisone is not going to work for
the other one.
Yeah, I wanted to ask you aquestion, so I definitely, you
(24:11):
know, struggle with the peoplepleasing, so what advice would
you give to someone whostruggles with guilt or fear
when saying no?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
would you give to someone who struggles with guilt
or fear when saying no?
So the first thing I wouldadvise is train yourself to not
say yes instantly.
I give you a good phrase thatyou can use in nearly every
occasion.
Just say something like thankyou for asking, I need to check
(24:40):
my schedule and give yourselfsome time.
So now you have one time thatyou can use to feel under your
body, what does exactly feeluncomfortable?
Do you feel any tension?
What are your worries coming up?
What's the story behind it?
And that gives you time to findout what you truly want and
what you're also capable todeliver or not deliver.
(25:02):
And it also gives you time tocreate an answer that is honest,
that says what you want to say,but does it in a way that's
kind enough for the situationand the relationship you have.
You know you can say no in somany ways.
You can even say no withoutsaying no.
I have an example for this oneokay, I was gonna ask yeah, give
(25:26):
yourself the gift of time tocraft a phrase that feels
aligned, where you can go backto the other person and just
give them your answer and, atthe same time, be prepared to
receive pushback, because if youhave been the one saying yes,
(25:47):
always people expect you to sayyes and when you start saying no
, they're like wait, what Nateis saying no, I didn't expect
this.
Nate, are you serious?
Do you mean what you say or doyou just have a mood?
So let me try again, and that'snot even mean or toxic or with
bad intention.
This is just completely normalhuman behavior and you can take
(26:11):
this time to prepare for yourpushback too.
And then, when you go back tothe interaction, you're feeling
very well equipped.
You are feeling much morecentered and calmer.
So it might still feel a littlebit uncomfortable if it's the
first time, because things we'venever done, things we are
(26:32):
learning they normally don'tfeel comfortable in most cases
yeah so don't forget that.
But you're very well equippedand it probably gets much easier
with this one yeah, you gottagotta do it.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Practice makes perfect.
So this question is kind ofsimilar, but, uh, maybe just
word a little bit different.
How can boundaries empower usto protect what matters most
without feeling selfish orunkind?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I love this question.
It's so juicy.
So you know.
The first thing is I alwaysstart with defining personal
values when I work with a client.
So here I'm referring to thethree to five most important
personal values.
So think about freedom orsecurity, and we can take this
(27:21):
to a level where we can create apractical example.
So if you are an employee, youhave more security because you
know when you're going to work,you know how much you are
expected to work and you knowexactly what you're going to be
paid at the end of the month.
That's a lot of security.
At the same time, you do nothave a lot of flexibility.
(27:43):
You need to take orders, youneed to serve in the bigger
context of the company, whichmight not always align to your
own values.
So maybe you are someone who isokay with not knowing exactly
how much money you're going tomake at the end of the month,
but you prefer the flexibilityto be there for your children
when they need you.
Maybe you're the one who'sgetting up in the middle of the
(28:05):
night and wants to work, and noton a regular schedule.
So in this case, freedom ismore important for you and we
can use these scenarios to findout and discover our personal
values.
So when I now come into asituation where I notice
something is off, that's a clearsign.
(28:25):
Okay, a boundary is needed.
And you said boundaries, andthat's very, very well said
protect something.
They always protect something.
They might protect our time,our money, our energy, sometimes
our mood.
You know there are so manythings.
Boundaries create safe spaces.
They protect resources.
I always say so when I noticesomething is off.
(28:48):
And I have my values, you know,at hand, then I can check in.
What do I actually need toprotect here?
Is it maybe just my mood?
You know, having this friendwho's calling you every single
day to complain about everythingand life and everything is so
terrible and you know, after thephone call you're like, oh gosh
, I need a couple of minutes formyself.
(29:09):
There you're just protectingyour mood and your energy, you
know, but it's worth it.
So when you know exactly whatyou are protecting and why it is
important that you protect this, then it doesn't feel so mean
and selfish anymore.
And the next thing is it's aboutthe way we communicate them.
(29:29):
I can communicate about a veryharsh and in a very rejecting
way, and I can also communicateit in a way that it builds
bridges and makes the otherperson feel seen.
So, as an example, with afriend calling you know, we can
say something like I reallyappreciate and love that, I'm a
(29:50):
person of trust for you andyou're calling me when you want
to chat about something, but Ihave the impression that you are
very dissatisfied with certainthings in your life and I know
that's not a good place to be.
So how can you change thisinstead of complaining and
making it even worse?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Wow, that's way different, isn't it?
You could just say stop callingme.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, and you know that can save a relationship.
And in this scenario you saidno without even saying no yeah
there it is.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That's good.
So for the values, there's somany things out in the world.
I feel like at this given timethere seems like there's more
pulling at us in differentdirections than like ever.
It feels like we got kids andfamily and friends and work and
things like that.
How do you sit down with peopleand get them to narrow those
things down?
Because I feel like if you asksomebody their values, they're
(30:44):
probably going to say friends,family and something like right
off the bat.
But how do you get them to getmore true with themselves?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So if somebody is saying friends and family, I
would ask if you can't have bothand you need to decide for one,
which one would it be?
So there are several differentways to find this out, and
actually it's a very fun thingto do.
The first thing I recommend isjust write down all the values
that are coming to your mind.
So don't start searching forvalue list in the Internet,
(31:15):
because you will find a thousandand they just might trigger
your brain into the formal thing.
Just write down what comes toyour mind, because that's your
life, that's your relationshipwith values you have and that's
the one that counts.
And over a period of time,maybe the next day, look at your
(31:37):
list and then start to crossout half of them.
And you know very often when weneed to decide do I go for
friends or do I go for family?
What do I value higher?
Then we will find out where ourtrue priorities lie.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, one thing it made me think of earlier is I go
on these runs and they'reguided runs, so there's a coach.
He talks in your ear.
They're by Nike.
I hate running, but this is theonly way I've been able to
slightly enjoy running.
Coach Bennett, he's one of myfavorite coaches.
He actually has his own podcastnow.
But one of the things he talksabout is a recovery run, and in
(32:17):
the recovery run no one wants todo them because they're not fun
, they're not sexy.
Everyone wants to do the longrun or the fast run or the cool
runs, but really the majority ofyour run should be recovery.
And then you sprinkle in theother ones, and one of my
favorite things that you talkedabout was that protecting it's
an active thing, it's a thingthat you do.
It doesn't just happen, and soone of the ones he talks about
(32:40):
is defining the word recovery.
So he looked it up in thedictionary and it says to regain
something that was lost orstolen, so you have to go and
get it and recover.
Recovery doesn't, I think.
Sometimes we think, oh well, Ijust sit on the couch or I'll do
this and like recovery willcome towards you.
I think in both these, therecovery and the protect.
(33:00):
It's an action, it's a verb,it's something you go and do.
It's not going to just happenif you don't protect your time.
It's just going to keep gettingtaken.
In the same way, if you don'trecover, you're not going to be
ready for those runs and things.
So I guess slightly different,but it made me think of the same
thing where, like, you need togo and do it, so someone's like
you know, not sure what to do,you need to take the step
(33:20):
forward and try to get afterthese things.
They don't just come to you andso I love the regain, something
that was lost or stolen.
You got to recover and getafter it.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
That's absolutely beautiful, and something that
comes to my mind here is thatwhen we come to this world and
we grow up I see this with mydaughter she's four in the
meantime and children can say novery strongly.
They know exactly what they donot want.
So we have all been there.
You know saying no, I don'twant that.
It's natural.
But we've been trained andconditioned to not hurt other
(33:54):
people's feelings, to put theirneeds and their feelings above
our own.
And you know we let this becometoo big.
It's going to steal ourhappiness.
It's going to steal things thatare as important as our purpose
in life, as the love we have togive.
This is seriously a huge thing.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
saying no can change and transform your life so much
so with the people that you'vehad as your clients and things
like that.
Have you seen a theme Is itwork that kind of drives that,
Because I feel like managementand being directed to do stuff.
Does it come from that?
Do you see more people that areself-employed or is it just
(34:34):
kind of all over the board?
What happens between being akid and then becoming an adult
and then all of a sudden we gotto take care of everyone but
ourselves?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I love this question so much.
So I think the first thing isit's all over the board.
I've seen it more with peoplewho are top performers, high
achievers, people who areambitious.
I think it comes from a trainedpattern and you know it comes
from childhood.
(35:03):
So I know, as parents, weprobably do this by ourselves
once in a while, even if we'renot proud of.
But behave well, don't be tooloud, don't be too noisy, don't
be as you are, because right nowthat's not good enough.
So please, you know, reduceyour own needs and accomplish a
little bit more the needs ofthose around you.
That's's standing behind.
(35:24):
Even if it's not said directly,you know it's indirectly
communicated.
And if we have parents who, whoare critical, who wants us to,
you know, these children whobehave always very, very well,
you know, depending on their age, that's just not normal.
A three, a four or five yearold is not a little adult, not
(35:48):
yeah crazy, loud littlecreatures who?
are exploring the world, andwhile doing this, they sometimes
can get pretty much on ournerves that's funny.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
My son just got finished up with flag football,
so american football, and it waskind of funny because they're
six-year-olds running around thefield and the coach would get
kind of frustrated.
He's like why are they notlistening?
Why aren't they running theseplays?
I'm like because they're six,they don't know plays, they
don't know what they're doing,they don't even know what
positions they're in.
(36:19):
So I asked my son I'm like doyou know what position you're
holding?
He's like I don't know.
I was like do you know ifyou're on offense or defense?
No, like he doesn't even knowwhat's going on.
So yeah, I thought that waspretty funny.
He's like it seemed like hewanted them to just sit and like
you know, listen, and like theywere high school level or
whatever level.
But I'm like they're notrunning plays, they're running
around like crazy.
(36:39):
They don't even go the rightdirection, they run into their
own end zone and score onthemselves.
So I thought that was prettyfunny.
But I wanted to transition overbecause one of my favorite
quotes I've mentioned on theshow a few times and
unfortunately, you know, I'vegot to reiterate because I love
it so much.
I guess I've got to listen toit one more time, but one of my
favorite quotes from Susan Scottin Fierce Conversations is
(37:02):
you're having conversations allthe time and sometimes they
involve other people, and soshe's talking about you know,
talking to yourself and thatinner critic.
So I'd like to get a few morequestions in there.
What's a memorable time whenyou silenced your inner critic
and proved it wrong?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
One time was when I was in a gym class and it was so
hard and I thought I don't wantto suffer so much just for
losing a couple of pounds.
I hate this.
And then the trainer she waslike screaming at us you are
doing this for yourself.
I was like, actually, she'sright, I'm doing this because I
(37:43):
want to feel healthy, I want tofeel fit, I just want to have
this beautiful booty, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
It's for you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
And that was the moment where my inner critic
said yeah, but it's so hard, andI thought be quiet, that just
doesn't matter.
It's an hour and you know weare going to be so proud
afterwards.
So in this case, just keepquiet road afterwards.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
So in this case, just keep quiet, Boy.
Yeah, that's a powerful one.
Back to my runs, the coach thatjumps in your ear.
He's like, even if you do twominutes or whatever, getting up,
getting your shoes on, gettingout there, he talks a lot about
runs have multiple purposes.
Because people are like, ohyeah, it's just for running.
But he's like it's not.
You know, you process thoughts,you feel like you accomplish
things.
So he talks about every run hasa purpose and then he kind of
shift that into purposes becausethere's multiple things going
(38:30):
on.
So even if you just go aroundthe block, you've gotten up,
you've got the blood moving.
So I think there's a lot ofpower in that.
We've heard about, you know,like, making your bed in the
morning.
You accomplish something, youget things going.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Even though it's simple things, it gets you going
for the day.
Are there any specifictechniques or exercises you use
to reframe negative self-talkinto empowering thoughts?
Yeah, um, there's one thingthat works wonders.
If I have a massive negativeassumption or self-talk like
you're never gonna achieve x, x,write it down and then divide
your piece of paper but youreally need to do this in
(39:13):
written form because it worksdifferently with your brain than
it does when we justcontemplate about it.
And on the other column, writedown three examples that prove
your first assumption wrong.
Like, for example, there was atime when I believed oh, you're
not going to finish anything,because my dad, you know, when I
didn't do what he wanted me todo, he said you never finish
(39:35):
things.
So that was something that Istarted to believe about myself
and I wrote it down.
And on the other side, I wrotedown things like oh, I've
actually finished my skill, Ifinished my studies, I have
finished so many things.
So when I look at this, then Inotice that there are specific
things that I do not finishbecause I don't want to finish
(39:58):
them, which is my choice of life, and that is totally okay.
I'm not a person who doesn'tfinish things.
That's actually not true.
So the first advice I have isseriously write it down and
prove yourself wrong.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's a good example.
I wanted to ask earlier and Imissed it, but I love stories.
My favorite thing isstorytelling.
I think that really helps usand I think that goes back to
the caveman days and things likethat.
That's how we pass knowledgeand things like that.
And so could you share a storyof a time when living in
alignment with your values or aclient helped them overcome that
(40:33):
difficult choice?
They went back, reflected ontheir values and it got them
through.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, I can remember one client.
It was a man.
He was employed as a consultant.
He was very, very successful,so he was good at his job.
He liked his job, he liked hiscolleagues, he liked the
projects.
He made a lot of money and wewere talking about.
He actually wanted to dosomething differently.
(40:58):
He wanted to do something witha specific purpose, to make the
world a better place, and hewanted to build his own company
doing this.
And he said to me Nadia, youknow, when I decide to move away
from my employer and then do myown thing, you know I have a
fiance, I'm gonna get married,we're gonna have a child and we
drive this beautiful BMW, andthis BMW will probably be taken
(41:22):
away.
So there is a price to pay forthis and I'm not ready, if I'm
able or willing to pay this.
So, we work through this becauseyou know the choices.
Very often, it seems our peopleare telling us it's so easy,
you just make a choice and youfollow through.
But you know every choice has aprice tag.
You know if I choose yes, ithas a price tag, and if I choose
(41:45):
no, it has a price tag.
You know if I choose yes, ithas a price tag and if I choose
no, it has a price tag too.
So in this scenario, we workedthrough the fears of in fact, it
was not thinking, oh, I'm notable to build the company, and
was more about I will not beable to provide financially as
my family is trusting me.
So in this case, very oftenit's about finding and creating
(42:08):
a plan that works in thesespecific circumstances, instead
of falling back into thegeneralization like if I do this
I don't have the money, if I dothat, I can't.
You know it's very general, thethings that our critics are
telling us, but if we get intodetail then quite often we can
recognize that we are rathertalking to a part of us that's
(42:31):
absolutely scared, instead ofsomeone telling us what we can
and cannot achieve.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So, speaking of livingauthentically, how do you
navigate the tension betweenbeing true to yourself and
meeting the expectations ofothers?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
I think in the meantime I got pretty good at
being true to yourself andmeeting the expectations of
others.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
I think in the meantime I got pretty good and
being able to disappoint people.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Being okay with it?
Yeah, absolutely Okay, you know.
The first thing is I learned tobe alone, which isn't a bad
thing, so I enjoy.
I mean, with a four-year-old Ihardly have alone time, but if I
do, I enjoy alone time where Ican do whatever I want, or do
nothing at all.
Nobody wants anything from me,so that's a good thing.
And it's also with a businessand a child.
(43:18):
Time is very, very precious andvery short.
There's never enough time forall the things we want to do.
So that's the resource and I'mvery aware of the resource I
very often protect, because if Iget into situations where I,
you know, where I lower myenergy because I hate being
there, or I just get into a badmood because of certain things,
(43:39):
people, whatever it is, thenthat's costing me time and
efficiency.
And you know we don't haveunlimited time.
So I own this one to me, that Iuse my time for the things that
matter.
And you know, something Ilearned is it's really a
difference.
Whom do I disappoint?
So you know, if I disappoint a40, 50 year old grown man or
(44:04):
woman, yeah, exactly, you knowyou.
I disappoint a 40, 50 year oldgrown man or woman?
Yeah, exactly, you know you'rea grown person so you can deal
with this.
You're responsible for yourlife, for your, you know, for
your choices, for whatever.
And if you're making badchoices, whatever it is, it's
your responsibility.
I'm not your therapist.
So if I'm disappointing mydaughter, that's differently
because she's still little,she's still dependent.
(44:26):
So in quite a couple ofscenarios I would choose to not
disappoint her.
But you know the thing is, whenwe make an active choice here,
then it's not costing us.
So if I choose to not do what Iwant to do on this weekend but
instead do something thatcreates a memorable experience
(44:48):
for her, then this fills up myown cup and makes me happy and
connects me to her.
So in the end I haven't losttime, I haven't lost energy, I
haven't lost anything.
I've gained a lot of things.
But that required me to workthrough all the layers that are
involved in deciding if I sayyes or no.
(45:09):
And sometimes it still happens.
I think for all of us, nomatter how an expert you are
boundaries.
Sometimes you're saying no andyou're disappointing people and
it hurts a little bit.
Sometimes that happens andsometimes it's a thing we just
need to work through.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
I would love to tell you something differently, but
yeah, that's it.
I think that goes back to whatyou said earlier.
There's cause and effect, right, you do something, and there's
that cause and there's secondand third order effects.
And so I think you mentioned itperfectly when you said it's
not always easy to just make thedecision and see it through and
it's just all good.
I mean, there's still going tobe second and third order things
.
You know ripple outward.
So you need to be okay and solidinto the decision you made
(45:53):
because, like you said, you tookin the information, you made
the choice and then at thatpoint you got to own whatever
comes out of it, because thereare going to be things.
But I think that is a goodreminder where we want things to
be easy.
And oh, because I looked backat my values, it's going to work
out perfectly and no one'sgoing to get hurt.
It's like no, you went back andyou focus on what was important
to you.
It doesn't mean it was going tobe perfect, it just mean that's
(46:14):
what you're supposed to do andyou know the grown people can
get over it yeah so yeah, Ithink that's good.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Life is life thing.
So no matter how well I preparemy decision, how aligned my
decision is, in fact, I neverknow 100% how it turns out in
the end.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Absolutely Well.
I'd like to try to bring it alltogether, nadia.
So how does setting boundaries,identifying values, overcoming
your inner critic in harmony tocreate a fulfilling, authentic
life?
How does it all come together?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
It's a circle.
It comes together as a circle,you know, it strengthens each
other and it allows us tointentionally create a life that
feels true to us.
So we've talked about badrelationships.
We've talked about bad jobs,and I think we all can relate to
a situation where we woke upand thought why the hell am I in
(47:09):
this job?
What the hell happened to mylife?
Why am I with a person whomakes me feel miserable and
hating life?
And that's a very, very sad andconcerning place to be, and it's
actually wasting our mostprecious resource, time, because
with this time, we could havecreated something that's
(47:33):
beautiful, maybe not always easy, not perfect, but beautiful in
its own way.
So it comes together asallowing us to create a life
that's not a perfect life, butthat's our unique, true and
authentic vision of who we are,and I think who we are is a big
part of the magic of theuniverse, a part of God, however
(47:56):
you want to refer to it, butthere is something unseen,
beautiful, magically wondrouswithin each of us and that has
to be expressed.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Absolutely yeah, magically wondrous within each
of us and that has to beexpressed.
Absolutely yeah.
I think that's the perfectreminder.
I think if anyone's out there,you know, stuck in those
situations where you're justuncomfortable, obviously there's
going to be some discomfort inlife.
As we said, there's no manual.
It's not perfect, but if it's alittle too much than just a
little discomfort, I mean, Ithink you got to take that step,
leap of faith.
You know, make sure you're notjust winging it.
(48:29):
You know, if it's your job orfinances, make sure you're not
just, you know jumping off thecliff.
And you know making a crazydecision.
But think back and you know,you know, in the future, in five
and 10 years where you're neverwhere you thought you could
possibly be, things are awesome.
You years where you're neverwhere you thought you could
possibly be, things are awesome.
You know things are much betterthan you thought.
Again, not perfect, like yousaid, but think of, you know,
(48:55):
that change that you could have.
If it's not comfortable, you'renot where you know that you
should be, then I say get afterit.
You know, try to figuresomething out.
But, nadia, I wanted to giveyou the final takeaway.
So what would you wantlisteners to take away from this
wonderful episode?
Speaker 2 (49:05):
I want you to take away the absolute certainty that
you can learn to say no, andthat you can.
You know it's practice, so youdon't have to accommodate
everybody and everything in yourlife and losing yourself.
You're absolutely required tobe yourself, to bring into this
(49:26):
beautiful life your beautiful,unique essence.
And something I can promise andI can't promise a lot of things
, but something I can definitelypromise is that creating your
authentic life by saying no towhat not aligns to you is a
practice.
It becomes easier the more wetrain it, until one day it will
be second nature.
(49:47):
So if someone like me, who hasbeen a prime example of a people
pleaser, can say no absolutelycomfortably without thinking
about it, then I can guaranteeyou you can too, and you're
absolutely entitled to do so.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Awesome.
Thank you, nadia.
I ask listeners, please providefeedback.
Let me know what you think onInstagram, facebook, TikTok,
youtube, buzzsprout, all overthe place.
Give me thoughts, comments.
Let me know if you want to jumpon the show, but I love you all
See ya, thank you.
Thank you for watching.
Hi everyone, I'm Nate Shearerand this is MindForce.
Join us as we explore love,life and learning, because your
mind is what matters here Todaywe have Nadia Hagen, and today
(00:42):
we'll be talking about settinghealthy boundaries, determining
your value and intentionallycreating an aligned life, living
authentically and stopping yourinner critic and allowing your
ability to train your brain tobelieve in you.
So we'll start with the warm-upthe who, what, why, who are you
, what do you do and why are youhere?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Hello, nate, thank you so much for having me as a
guest on your show.
I'm Nadja Hagen.
As you said, I'm a self-lovecoach for high-achieving women
recovering from people-pleasing,and I help my clients to set
healthy boundaries andprioritize themselves so they
can intentionally create theirlives aligned with their values,
while building mutual andconnected relationships, and all
(01:24):
this without the need topretend to be someone they are
not.
So that's who I am, what I doand why do I do it.
Because I had to learn all thisstuff for myself and it was
actually a very long andchallenging route to take and I
wished I had someone like me 20years ago.
And you know, I had a day whereI woke up more or less and
noticed that I don't know asingle thing about me.
(01:47):
I was so busy pleasing otherpeople and meeting expectations
and doing the right thing that Icompletely lost myself along
the way.
And you know that's not a lifethat feels like yeah, I want to
go out of bed and yeah, I'mfulfilled.
That's like me.
No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
So that's the way I do what I do.
Much as humans will bediscomfortable and continue on.
We'll be in bad jobs, badrelationships and we'll kind of
just keep going Like we will putup with a lot of things where
we really need to stop and, youknow, turn and try something new
and get back on track, and soit's awesome that you found it
(02:40):
and were able to tweak that.
I don't think that.
You know, setting boundaries issomething that really comes
natural to us, which kind ofleads into the first warm-up
question what's a moment in yourlife where setting a boundary
felt like an act of courage, andhow did it change things for
you?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I had several acts of courage, but I can remember the
first one.
It was in my career context.
So I was still an employee andI started at a new job, a job I
was so happy to have, so I wasexcited about it.
And my new boss came to me andI was a project manager in the
software development industryand he came and he said Nadia,
(03:16):
we have this project and I needyou to have it ready in three
weeks.
I was saying I'm sorry, no way,we're not going to do it in
three weeks, weeks.
I was saying I'm sorry, no way,we're not going to do it in
three weeks.
And you know I can stillremember the look in his eyes
like how can she dare?
And I thought he's going tofire me.
He's going to fire me for beingso disobedient.
And I told him you know, Ipromise you we need six weeks.
(03:37):
But I promise you, after sixweeks you get your project, you
get it tested, everything willwork, everything will run
smoothly.
But if I tell him we're goingto make it in three weeks, then
I will come back to you and saywe will miss the deadline.
So what's the point of it?
And he was thinking a littlebit.
Maybe he gave me a chance, Idon't know.
But we had the project readyfour weeks later.
(03:58):
So two weeks earlier everythingworked and that was an act of
trust building.
But it took me a lot of courageto risk this new job and now I
could be instantly fired.
But for me it was the rightthing to do.
So here we are so did he comeback and say I'm glad you were
able to to set that, or wasthere any feedback later on no,
(04:20):
no, not that, but he neverquestions my again and that was
something that was so beautifuland it refers beautifully to
boundaries.
I might feel so uncomfortable,like an act of courage, if we
have to say no to something, butactually if we do and we stay
in our integrity, then we buildtrust massively.
And I never got questionedagain when we were talking about
(04:42):
deadlines because people knew Ideliver with my team, because
you know, the thing I did was Iwas talking to all team members
involved and we found a deadlinewhere everybody was standing
behind, so we made things workand having this trust was
definitely worth the coach.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, I think being able to communicate is really,
you know, powerful and gets thepoint across and make sure
you're on the same page.
I know previously I lived inJapan and it's interesting how
the cultures are different indifferent areas.
When we'd ask for things, theyalways wanted to try to, you
(05:26):
know, make sure they werepleasing and things like that.
So it kind of agreed toeverything and sometimes it was
not possible.
So you're like, oh, can you getit done this week?
Yeah, yeah, and then itwouldn't get done that week.
You're confused and so I was outthere for three years and so
the first year was kind ofconfusing.
But you kind of learn along theway.
They're just going to kind ofagree to the things that are
going on and you have to kind oflearn to figure out like stop
and pause and try to ask is thisactually realistic?
(05:48):
Can you help me understand?
And so you can get through thatcommunication because it'll
kind of agree.
So just different conflict ofverse and the way that different
people were raised, which I'msure we'll get into as we go
through.
The next question I had was tryto get a fun one.
If your questions or your sorry, your values were a playlist,
(06:08):
what would be the theme songthat represents your core
beliefs?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I do not have a specific song that comes to mind
, but it would probably besomething from Frank Sinatra,
something with a little bit ofmelancholy, a little bit of
sadness, a lot of hope, a lot ofplayfulness.
You can hear it over and overagain.
Never gets boring.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Classic.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, definitely something like this.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay, Frank Sinatra.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
What would be yours?
Do you have one?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Boy.
Mine would be.
I don't know what the songwould be, but something along
the lines of, you know, being alittle weird and dancing to my
own drum.
I think I've always kind ofdone it.
I've never done itintentionally.
It's something that I think isodd, because my little brother,
many years ago, mentioned likethat I always seem to do my own
thing and don't really, you know, concern with what other people
(07:03):
think, and I'd never reallythought of it.
I just kind of did whatever Iwanted, and so I've always been
a little weird, and so it wouldbe something about being weird,
which I don't even know ifthere's a song for that.
Yeah, I know, like as a kid youcould do like those theme song
things and try to pick one foryou.
I wish I could remember youknow what the theme song was for
(07:30):
my life.
I know that I did one based onwhat the number one song was
when you were born, and I thinkit was Santana.
I forget what that song iscalled.
It's the one with Santana andthe guy from Matchbox 21 or
Matchbox 11.
I can't remember Rob Thomas,that's his name, anyway.
So I think it'd be somethinglike like that.
I've always just kind of been alittle bit unique and different
and try to, you know, hopefullymake the world better for
everybody.
And then the last question Ihad for you what's the most
(07:54):
unusual or creative way youfound to silence your inner
critic?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
one usual way.
I think I'm more into effectiveways that's good something I
have learned is that you knowthe inner critic is.
It's a mean one, doesn't matterif it's a he or she, but this
thing never shuts up.
Sorry for my wording, no, that'sgood I think you know I don't
(08:24):
get it silenced completely, butwhat I've learned is that we all
do have it.
It's completely normal.
So it's not, and I think thethe turning point for me was to
learn that this is actually avoice in my head.
Sounds weird, but it's not me,you know, and I gave this voice
a place, so that's maybe a goodtip for the listeners too, when
(08:47):
I have this voice coming up orother voices.
I'm not, I'm mentally okay, sojust to let everybody know about
the voices in my head.
But I imagine having a long,big table and every voice gets a
place on this table and Iconsider them being consultants.
So even though the criticalvoice is mean and harsh,
(09:09):
sometimes there is a reasonbehind it and why we hear it so
pretty often it refers back tosituations we might not even
remember consciously anymore,but it tries to protect us, to
keep us safe.
So I try to listen not to themean things but to the reason
(09:29):
behind and get the gold out ofit.
And then I hear I listen to allmy consultants, the big tech
with all the voices, and, like aCEO, you have all your
consultants, you have all theexperts and you're listening to
their advice and then I'm makingmy decision, which is the right
decision for me, and sometimesI take them in account,
sometimes I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, I think that's pretty similar to like the
reason we have fear and otherthings.
I think that's something I'dlove to do an episode on at some
point, because we have fearbuilt in, because we used to be
caveman, we needed to avoiddanger, we needed to not get
hurt, and so I think a lot oftimes we are freaked out and
scared to try new things and,you know, lose our income and
(10:13):
try a new job or leave arelationship because it feels
comfortable, and all thosethings are built in from you
know, way, way back in the day.
But I think you know you got totake in all the information,
like you said, and then make thebest choice.
Fear might be one of thosethings at the table, but I think
you got to weigh all thedifferent things, because I
think a lot of times we look atthe here and now and it's like,
(10:35):
oh it's, it's scary now, but ifyou are in an uncomfortable job
or relationship and then youknow five or 10 years, you get
to look back and realize yourlife is, you know, a hundred
times better than you could haveimagined, even though it was
scary when you took that firststep.
Now that you've made the stepsand now you have a better life.
So that is interesting.
It's interesting how you knowdeep rooted and how far back
(10:57):
that goes with fear and otherthings.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I have to share something here, because
something that I've learned andthat was a seriously a game
changer is it's like, as we aredesigned, as you said, our brain
is actually not designed tomake us happy.
That's not our brain's task.
Our brain is in charge ofkeeping us alive and you know
(11:19):
when you're in a really badsituation bad job, bad
relationship, whatever it is butyou are still alive.
Your brain achieved its job.
You know, it knows.
Okay, I know everything that iscoming.
It's not comfortable, it'sreally bad, but we are surviving
in this.
So we're gonna stay here,because as soon as we move and
things are gonna change, I don'tknow if I will be able to keep
(11:39):
you alive.
And then I'm getting you knowall these nervous things, life
and then I'm getting you knowall those nervous things and
your brain doesn't like this.
So our brain was never designedto make us happy.
It's designed to keep us alive.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
That's a good note.
Yeah, different things fordifferent outcomes.
I guess If you need the logicaland the you know keeping you
alive, you go with the brain,but other times you got to go
with the heart, which I guessgoes back to your point on the
consultants at the table.
Like which one are you going to?
Maybe you got to listen to both, take the information as, make
the best decision and then moveforward.
(12:15):
And maybe sometimes it is thebrain and other times maybe the
heart.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
So to finish up the warmup, I wanted to see if you
have a question for me.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, I would love to know.
I think we will talk a littlebit about boundaries what is
your personal experience withsetting boundaries, saying no,
does it come easily, naturallyto you, or is it a challenge?
Is it always a challenge orsometimes?
And what do you think?
Why is it like it is?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
yeah.
So I would say I'm probablyawful at this.
Um, I love helping people soI'm definitely in like the
people pleasing and I think waytoo much on you know what people
are thinking and things likethat.
Even though earlier I said Idance to the beat of my own drum
, it really depends on thesituation and the environment
and the relationship and thingslike that.
Even though earlier I said Idance to the beat of my own drum
, it really depends on thesituation and the environment
and the relationship and thingslike that.
But yeah, I don't think this isan easy thing.
(13:04):
I don't think it's somethingthat's really ingrained.
It must be.
You know, as you were brought upor things like that, I was
alone with me and my mom as Iwas growing up, so it's kind of
her and I against the world andyou know struggling through
different you know apartmentsand welfare and different things
.
So I think that that bond fromthe beginning probably makes it
a little bit different when youknow we had to kind of stick
(13:26):
together and get through thingsto make it.
So I think you know, as wetalked about, the heart and the
brain probably resorted more to,like the mind and you know
surviving and getting throughthings.
I'd love to do a better job sohopefully, with the advice I
hear today, maybe I could do alittle better job.
But I'd like to say it doesn'tprobably come naturally.
I don't think I think this issomething that's kind of taught
(13:48):
and ingrained as you go along,because I think we probably
resort to surviving and justpushing on until you know you
have an aha or some type ofmoment where you wake up, like
you said, and and try to makethat change.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
That's what I would think thank you so much for
sharing this with me.
It's so interesting for me toalways get the insight how this
works for other people yeah,yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So we'll continue a little bit more on the setting
healthy boundaries.
Can you share a time whenestablishing a boundary
transformed a challengingrelationship or situation in
your life?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yes, there are a lot of.
I'm going to think about theone to pick.
I would say it changed therelationship.
That changed the most is therelationship I have to my
partner, because the more close,the more intimate a
relationship is, the moredifficult it becomes to say no.
Also, the more transformativeand a good way it becomes.
(14:47):
I have been 15 years ago.
I've been the absolute primeexample of a people pleaser.
So I would say yes even beforeyou've asked me, and I have
learned to, in a kind way, veryclearly and kindly express what
I feel and what I want.
And that doesn't mean everybodyhas to accommodate my wishes,
my needs, my wants.
(15:07):
But being able to show upauthentically and vulnerably and
, you know, have a little bit ofcourage, it's an act of courage
to show who you are, to say I'mhurt, actually, I'm sad, or I
feel lonely or there issomething I need, instead of oh,
I'm having everything together,everything is perfect.
Yes, of course you know thatchanges a relationship because
(15:28):
so often people who are peoplepleasing and saying yes all the
time, they think they need to dothis to build relationships, to
not be rejected and abandonedand all these things, whereas in
fact not being honest andauthentic hinders saying yes,
always hinders a true and mutualconnection, because only in the
(15:48):
moment when I show myself andI'm vulnerable and I'm human and
I'm you know, then I'm kind of.
In German we say you can get agrip on people, and it means you
can, you can really see them,you can start to feel them.
They become more real on anemotional level and that
actually enables the otherperson to decide do I want to
(16:12):
give her what she asked for?
Can I bring to the table whatshe needs?
Is it?
Are we on the same page?
And this truly transforms ourrelationship deeply.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, and that's one of the core reasons I think I
started the show.
I think we have stigmas and alot of bad thoughts of different
things, so I think mentalhealth as a as a whole is seen
as this negative thing, as someform of weakness.
And so I remember I wanted tostart the show and I went to a
suicide prevention class at workand they brought in a guy named
(16:47):
Robert Swanson.
He's retired now but he goesaround and he shares this story
and he's walking through thestory of this person that
attempted suicide not once buttwice, was not successful, had
kids, had a family, and then asthe story develops you realize
that it's him.
So he's telling his ownpersonal story and so at the end
(17:10):
he said one of the things I getasked all the time is how could
you get up there, how could youshare this story, how could you
be vulnerable?
That seems really awkward andwhatnot.
And like his answer I thinkI'll remember for the rest of my
life.
He said if I help one person,it's all worth it, and so I
think that's something that'ssuper powerful, because we see
(17:31):
this vulnerability as weak andopening up is weak, but that's
power.
He gets up there gets on thatstage and it's probably saved.
You know, however many people,even if it's only one I mean one
human saved is already amassive value.
So I hope that people start tounderstand that mental health is
important, getting taken careof is important and really, you
(17:53):
know, vulnerability is superimportant.
I remember, you know, being in aleadership position when I took
one of my first areas.
You know there seems to be agap between the leader and the
people and they're thinking youhave everything squared away and
you have everything figured out.
And it wasn't until I jotteddown some notes and I'd been in
there for a few months.
(18:14):
I came in, you know, I open upand say I've lost most of my
grandparents.
And you know I've gone througha divorce and I do, you know,
shared custody and all thesethings.
And I lost my dad, you know, afew years ago.
And I go through these thingsand it's like not to be this
negative, nancy, and bringeveryone down, which I don't do
it immediately Cause I don'twant to like freak.
(18:34):
You know the new section outright off the bat.
So I do the skim, the wave topsat the beginning and then,
three or four months in, go alittle bit deeper.
But I hope to make thatconnection because I know, you
know, we have a policy where wesay open door policy for the
leaders but like if they're sodisconnected you never really
want to go.
So I hope I bringing up some ofthose things, opening up a
(18:56):
little bit, being a littlevulnerable, like I'm just a
human too, like I'm in adifferent position, I have a
different role, I look at thingsa little bit different.
But after that, like human tohuman, I'm not saying I've seen
everything.
It's just a bridge, that gap.
So if you want to come in, sitdown, let's figure out, like, do
you just want to vent and getall this stuff out and go away,
or do you want to try to solveit?
(19:16):
We can start making phone callsand whatnot.
But I think vulnerability is sopowerful when it's not seen
that way.
Unfortunately it's just one ofthose old thoughts, right?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yes, absolutely.
You know I always say trust isnot a one way route.
If I want you to trust me, Ineed to have the courage to
start trusting you and give yousomething of me.
You know to let go of theperfect facade, of the perfect
image.
And you know the people who useour openness or vulnerability
(19:48):
to judge us.
They will judge us anyway, nomatter what we do, no matter
what we say, even if we arecompletely perfect.
I mean there, there are peopleout in this world and that was
an aha moment for me too whothink the 90s supermodels,
claudia Schiffer, she's ugly.
And I think, yeah, okay, ifsomebody finds Claudia Schiffer
ugly, okay.
(20:09):
So don't even try to makeeverybody happy, because no way.
And I think it's for those whodo not judge us for being
vulnerable for them, it allows,for them, it allows, you know,
it gives this feeling of I'm notthe only one, I'm not weird,
I'm not enough in some way, I'mnot insufficient or there's
(20:30):
nothing wrong with me, becauseit seems that other people have
the same challenges.
So maybe I'm just human, maybewe are all just human on a path
called life without the manual.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
maybe you have any advice?
Like no, not really.
Like, try your best to keepthem alive and you know,
(21:02):
whatever you feel you know isright at that given time, go for
it, because you're gonna hearyou know you got to wrap them.
Don't wrap them, put them ontheir back, put them on their
side.
Everyone's got their own.
So if you feel that's good, youknow, then go with it, because
I know, like the big one Iremember is the like co-sleeping
, like, oh, they should be inthe bed or not in the bed, in
the bassinet, like, if you feelcomfortable and you can take
(21:23):
care of it in whatever way, justdo it.
Because there's no.
I mean, there's been plenty ofbooks written on parenthood, but
I don't know if any of themhave it all, all squared away or
all right, it's just whateverworks at the time.
That, and I feel like they flipit all the time, even with us
as adults.
I feel like they flip it allthe time, even with us as adults
.
I feel like I've heard like, oh, red wine's good for you, it's
not good for you.
And then, like, chocolate wasgood for you, and then it wasn't
(21:43):
good for you, and oh my gosh,we can't even figure out what's
uh, what's right or not?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
and you know I think it comes down to, we are all so
different even though we have somuch in common.
But with the children I need tolaugh so hard because I thought
you know, as a coach and aslearning, so much about the
inner child and you know healthydevelopment, I thought I'm a
pro of raising kids before Ieven got one.
And then I became a mom and youknow, my daughter turned
(22:10):
everything, really everything,upside down.
The moment I think, no, I gotit, I figured it out.
Then she changes, she growswhatever it is, and I start from
zero.
And I think, no, I got it, Ifigured it out.
Then she changes, she growswhatever it is, and I start from
zero.
And I think you know what worksfor me.
And that applies to everything,not only our children, but we as
humans.
You know, with eating patterns,some people need more protein
(22:31):
than others and we're soindividual and we need to take
this into account.
The same with boundaries.
You know, what works for memight probably not work for you,
and it's about figuring outwhat's the right thing for me
and how does it work.
We can share our experiences,but at the same time, I think
(22:51):
it's important to stay open thatother people have a different
background, differentcharacteristics and therefore
different experiences anddifferent things that might work
for them.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I think that's another good example.
You were talking about notworrying about what other people
think, because I knowparenthood is funny.
You have people that aren'tparents yet and we give the
tablet or do different things,and people will be like I would
never give my kid a tablet.
I'll say, okay, well, you, yougo ahead and have one and then
you know they want yourattention 24, seven and you know
(23:25):
you'll see if you could make itand how long you can make it
before you need to give some TVor something so you can have a
moment to yourself.
But yeah, it's always funny fromthe outside and just so funny
how the kids are so different.
Like I remember, you know,having the girl and the girl
would, like, you know, slowlyget down and like slide off the
couch and be safe and, you know,make sure she got her feet on
(23:49):
the ground.
And the boy just tries to walkoff the couch of, like face
first, like off the end, likeone years old.
You can just tell immediatelylike they're nothing the same
and that's all the way back towhen they could barely walk.
You're immediately like this isnot the same.
So whatever rule I had for thisone is not going to work for
the other one.
Yeah, I wanted to ask you aquestion, so I definitely, you
(24:11):
know, struggle with the peoplepleasing, so what advice would
you give to someone whostruggles with guilt or fear
when saying no?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
would you give to someone who struggles with guilt
or fear when saying no?
So the first thing I wouldadvise is train yourself to not
say yes instantly.
I give you a good phrase thatyou can use in nearly every
occasion.
Just say something like thankyou for asking, I need to check
(24:40):
my schedule and give yourselfsome time.
So now you have one time thatyou can use to feel under your
body, what does exactly feeluncomfortable?
Do you feel any tension?
What are your worries coming up?
What's the story behind it?
And that gives you time to findout what you truly want and
what you're also capable todeliver or not deliver.
(25:02):
And it also gives you time tocreate an answer that is honest,
that says what you want to say,but does it in a way that's
kind enough for the situationand the relationship you have.
You know you can say no in somany ways.
You can even say no withoutsaying no.
I have an example for this oneokay, I was gonna ask yeah, give
(25:26):
yourself the gift of time tocraft a phrase that feels
aligned, where you can go backto the other person and just
give them your answer and, atthe same time, be prepared to
receive pushback, because if youhave been the one saying yes,
(25:47):
always people expect you to sayyes and when you start saying no
, they're like wait, what Nateis saying no, I didn't expect
this.
Nate, are you serious?
Do you mean what you say or doyou just have a mood?
So let me try again, and that'snot even mean or toxic or with
bad intention.
This is just completely normalhuman behavior and you can take
(26:11):
this time to prepare for yourpushback too.
And then, when you go back tothe interaction, you're feeling
very well equipped.
You are feeling much morecentered and calmer.
So it might still feel a littlebit uncomfortable if it's the
first time, because things we'venever done, things we are
(26:32):
learning they normally don'tfeel comfortable in most cases
yeah so don't forget that.
But you're very well equippedand it probably gets much easier
with this one yeah, you gottagotta do it.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Practice makes perfect.
So this question is kind ofsimilar, but, uh, maybe just
word a little bit different.
How can boundaries empower usto protect what matters most
without feeling selfish orunkind?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I love this question.
It's so juicy.
So you know.
The first thing is I alwaysstart with defining personal
values when I work with a client.
So here I'm referring to thethree to five most important
personal values.
So think about freedom orsecurity, and we can take this
(27:21):
to a level where we can create apractical example.
So if you are an employee, youhave more security because you
know when you're going to work,you know how much you are
expected to work and you knowexactly what you're going to be
paid at the end of the month.
That's a lot of security.
At the same time, you do nothave a lot of flexibility.
(27:43):
You need to take orders, youneed to serve in the bigger
context of the company, whichmight not always align to your
own values.
So maybe you are someone who isokay with not knowing exactly
how much money you're going tomake at the end of the month,
but you prefer the flexibilityto be there for your children
when they need you.
Maybe you're the one who'sgetting up in the middle of the
(28:05):
night and wants to work, and noton a regular schedule.
So in this case, freedom ismore important for you and we
can use these scenarios to findout and discover our personal
values.
So when I now come into asituation where I notice
something is off, that's a clearsign.
(28:25):
Okay, a boundary is needed.
And you said boundaries, andthat's very, very well said
protect something.
They always protect something.
They might protect our time,our money, our energy, sometimes
our mood.
You know there are so manythings.
Boundaries create safe spaces.
They protect resources.
I always say so when I noticesomething is off.
(28:48):
And I have my values, you know,at hand, then I can check in.
What do I actually need toprotect here?
Is it maybe just my mood?
You know, having this friendwho's calling you every single
day to complain about everythingand life and everything is so
terrible and you know, after thephone call you're like, oh gosh
, I need a couple of minutes formyself.
(29:09):
There you're just protectingyour mood and your energy, you
know, but it's worth it.
So when you know exactly whatyou are protecting and why it is
important that you protect this, then it doesn't feel so mean
and selfish anymore.
And the next thing is it's aboutthe way we communicate them.
(29:29):
I can communicate about a veryharsh and in a very rejecting
way, and I can also communicateit in a way that it builds
bridges and makes the otherperson feel seen.
So, as an example, with afriend calling you know, we can
say something like I reallyappreciate and love that, I'm a
(29:50):
person of trust for you andyou're calling me when you want
to chat about something, but Ihave the impression that you are
very dissatisfied with certainthings in your life and I know
that's not a good place to be.
So how can you change thisinstead of complaining and
making it even worse?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Wow, that's way different, isn't it?
You could just say stop callingme.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, and you know that can save a relationship.
And in this scenario you saidno without even saying no yeah
there it is.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That's good.
So for the values, there's somany things out in the world.
I feel like at this given timethere seems like there's more
pulling at us in differentdirections than like ever.
It feels like we got kids andfamily and friends and work and
things like that.
How do you sit down with peopleand get them to narrow those
things down?
Because I feel like if you asksomebody their values, they're
(30:44):
probably going to say friends,family and something like right
off the bat.
But how do you get them to getmore true with themselves?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So if somebody is saying friends and family, I
would ask if you can't have bothand you need to decide for one,
which one would it be?
So there are several differentways to find this out, and
actually it's a very fun thingto do.
The first thing I recommend isjust write down all the values
that are coming to your mind.
So don't start searching forvalue list in the Internet,
(31:15):
because you will find a thousandand they just might trigger
your brain into the formal thing.
Just write down what comes toyour mind, because that's your
life, that's your relationshipwith values you have and that's
the one that counts.
And over a period of time,maybe the next day, look at your
(31:37):
list and then start to crossout half of them.
And you know very often when weneed to decide do I go for
friends or do I go for family?
What do I value higher?
Then we will find out where ourtrue priorities lie.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, one thing it made me think of earlier is I go
on these runs and they'reguided runs, so there's a coach.
He talks in your ear.
They're by Nike.
I hate running, but this is theonly way I've been able to
slightly enjoy running.
Coach Bennett, he's one of myfavorite coaches.
He actually has his own podcastnow.
But one of the things he talksabout is a recovery run, and in
(32:17):
the recovery run no one wants todo them because they're not fun
, they're not sexy.
Everyone wants to do the longrun or the fast run or the cool
runs, but really the majority ofyour run should be recovery.
And then you sprinkle in theother ones, and one of my
favorite things that you talkedabout was that protecting it's
an active thing, it's a thingthat you do.
It doesn't just happen, and soone of the ones he talks about
(32:40):
is defining the word recovery.
So he looked it up in thedictionary and it says to regain
something that was lost orstolen, so you have to go and
get it and recover.
Recovery doesn't, I think.
Sometimes we think, oh well, Ijust sit on the couch or I'll do
this and like recovery willcome towards you.
I think in both these, therecovery and the protect.
(33:00):
It's an action, it's a verb,it's something you go and do.
It's not going to just happenif you don't protect your time.
It's just going to keep gettingtaken.
In the same way, if you don'trecover, you're not going to be
ready for those runs and things.
So I guess slightly different,but it made me think of the same
thing where, like, you need togo and do it, so someone's like
you know, not sure what to do,you need to take the step
(33:20):
forward and try to get afterthese things.
They don't just come to you andso I love the regain, something
that was lost or stolen.
You got to recover and getafter it.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
That's absolutely beautiful, and something that
comes to my mind here is thatwhen we come to this world and
we grow up I see this with mydaughter she's four in the
meantime and children can say novery strongly.
They know exactly what they donot want.
So we have all been there.
You know saying no, I don'twant that.
It's natural.
But we've been trained andconditioned to not hurt other
(33:54):
people's feelings, to put theirneeds and their feelings above
our own.
And you know we let this becometoo big.
It's going to steal ourhappiness.
It's going to steal things thatare as important as our purpose
in life, as the love we have togive.
This is seriously a huge thing.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
saying no can change and transform your life so much
so with the people that you'vehad as your clients and things
like that.
Have you seen a theme Is itwork that kind of drives that,
Because I feel like managementand being directed to do stuff.
Does it come from that?
Do you see more people that areself-employed or is it just
(34:34):
kind of all over the board?
What happens between being akid and then becoming an adult
and then all of a sudden we gotto take care of everyone but
ourselves?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I love this question so much.
So I think the first thing isit's all over the board.
I've seen it more with peoplewho are top performers, high
achievers, people who areambitious.
I think it comes from a trainedpattern and you know it comes
from childhood.
(35:03):
So I know, as parents, weprobably do this by ourselves
once in a while, even if we'renot proud of.
But behave well, don't be tooloud, don't be too noisy, don't
be as you are, because right nowthat's not good enough.
So please, you know, reduceyour own needs and accomplish a
little bit more the needs ofthose around you.
That's's standing behind.
(35:24):
Even if it's not said directly,you know it's indirectly
communicated.
And if we have parents who, whoare critical, who wants us to,
you know, these children whobehave always very, very well,
you know, depending on their age, that's just not normal.
A three, a four or five yearold is not a little adult, not
(35:48):
yeah crazy, loud littlecreatures who?
are exploring the world, andwhile doing this, they sometimes
can get pretty much on ournerves that's funny.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
My son just got finished up with flag football,
so american football, and it waskind of funny because they're
six-year-olds running around thefield and the coach would get
kind of frustrated.
He's like why are they notlistening?
Why aren't they running theseplays?
I'm like because they're six,they don't know plays, they
don't know what they're doing,they don't even know what
positions they're in.
(36:19):
So I asked my son I'm like doyou know what position you're
holding?
He's like I don't know.
I was like do you know ifyou're on offense or defense?
No, like he doesn't even knowwhat's going on.
So yeah, I thought that waspretty funny.
He's like it seemed like hewanted them to just sit and like
you know, listen, and like theywere high school level or
whatever level.
But I'm like they're notrunning plays, they're running
around like crazy.
(36:39):
They don't even go the rightdirection, they run into their
own end zone and score onthemselves.
So I thought that was prettyfunny.
But I wanted to transition overbecause one of my favorite
quotes I've mentioned on theshow a few times and
unfortunately, you know, I'vegot to reiterate because I love
it so much.
I guess I've got to listen toit one more time, but one of my
favorite quotes from Susan Scottin Fierce Conversations is
(37:02):
you're having conversations allthe time and sometimes they
involve other people, and soshe's talking about you know,
talking to yourself and thatinner critic.
So I'd like to get a few morequestions in there.
What's a memorable time whenyou silenced your inner critic
and proved it wrong?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
One time was when I was in a gym class and it was so
hard and I thought I don't wantto suffer so much just for
losing a couple of pounds.
I hate this.
And then the trainer she waslike screaming at us you are
doing this for yourself.
I was like, actually, she'sright, I'm doing this because I
(37:43):
want to feel healthy, I want tofeel fit, I just want to have
this beautiful booty, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
It's for you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
And that was the moment where my inner critic
said yeah, but it's so hard, andI thought be quiet, that just
doesn't matter.
It's an hour and you know weare going to be so proud
afterwards.
So in this case, just keepquiet road afterwards.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
So in this case, just keep quiet, Boy.
Yeah, that's a powerful one.
Back to my runs, the coach thatjumps in your ear.
He's like, even if you do twominutes or whatever, getting up,
getting your shoes on, gettingout there, he talks a lot about
runs have multiple purposes.
Because people are like, ohyeah, it's just for running.
But he's like it's not.
You know, you process thoughts,you feel like you accomplish
things.
So he talks about every run hasa purpose and then he kind of
shift that into purposes becausethere's multiple things going
(38:30):
on.
So even if you just go aroundthe block, you've gotten up,
you've got the blood moving.
So I think there's a lot ofpower in that.
We've heard about, you know,like, making your bed in the
morning.
You accomplish something, youget things going.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Even though it's simple things, it gets you going
for the day.
Are there any specifictechniques or exercises you use
to reframe negative self-talkinto empowering thoughts?
Yeah, um, there's one thingthat works wonders.
If I have a massive negativeassumption or self-talk like
you're never gonna achieve x, x,write it down and then divide
your piece of paper but youreally need to do this in
(39:13):
written form because it worksdifferently with your brain than
it does when we justcontemplate about it.
And on the other column, writedown three examples that prove
your first assumption wrong.
Like, for example, there was atime when I believed oh, you're
not going to finish anything,because my dad, you know, when I
didn't do what he wanted me todo, he said you never finish
(39:35):
things.
So that was something that Istarted to believe about myself
and I wrote it down.
And on the other side, I wrotedown things like oh, I've
actually finished my skill, Ifinished my studies, I have
finished so many things.
So when I look at this, then Inotice that there are specific
things that I do not finishbecause I don't want to finish
(39:58):
them, which is my choice of life, and that is totally okay.
I'm not a person who doesn'tfinish things.
That's actually not true.
So the first advice I have isseriously write it down and
prove yourself wrong.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's a good example.
I wanted to ask earlier and Imissed it, but I love stories.
My favorite thing isstorytelling.
I think that really helps usand I think that goes back to
the caveman days and things likethat.
That's how we pass knowledgeand things like that.
And so could you share a storyof a time when living in
alignment with your values or aclient helped them overcome that
(40:33):
difficult choice?
They went back, reflected ontheir values and it got them
through.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, I can remember one client.
It was a man.
He was employed as a consultant.
He was very, very successful,so he was good at his job.
He liked his job, he liked hiscolleagues, he liked the
projects.
He made a lot of money and wewere talking about.
He actually wanted to dosomething differently.
(40:58):
He wanted to do something witha specific purpose, to make the
world a better place, and hewanted to build his own company
doing this.
And he said to me Nadia, youknow, when I decide to move away
from my employer and then do myown thing, you know I have a
fiance, I'm gonna get married,we're gonna have a child and we
drive this beautiful BMW, andthis BMW will probably be taken
(41:22):
away.
So there is a price to pay forthis and I'm not ready, if I'm
able or willing to pay this.
So, we work through this becauseyou know the choices.
Very often, it seems our peopleare telling us it's so easy,
you just make a choice and youfollow through.
But you know every choice has aprice tag.
You know if I choose yes, ithas a price tag, and if I choose
(41:45):
no, it has a price tag.
You know if I choose yes, ithas a price tag and if I choose
no, it has a price tag too.
So in this scenario, we workedthrough the fears of in fact, it
was not thinking, oh, I'm notable to build the company, and
was more about I will not beable to provide financially as
my family is trusting me.
So in this case, very oftenit's about finding and creating
(42:08):
a plan that works in thesespecific circumstances, instead
of falling back into thegeneralization like if I do this
I don't have the money, if I dothat, I can't.
You know it's very general, thethings that our critics are
telling us, but if we get intodetail then quite often we can
recognize that we are rathertalking to a part of us that's
(42:31):
absolutely scared, instead ofsomeone telling us what we can
and cannot achieve.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So, speaking of livingauthentically, how do you
navigate the tension betweenbeing true to yourself and
meeting the expectations ofothers?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
I think in the meantime I got pretty good at
being true to yourself andmeeting the expectations of
others.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
I think in the meantime I got pretty good and
being able to disappoint people.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Being okay with it?
Yeah, absolutely Okay, you know.
The first thing is I learned tobe alone, which isn't a bad
thing, so I enjoy.
I mean, with a four-year-old Ihardly have alone time, but if I
do, I enjoy alone time where Ican do whatever I want, or do
nothing at all.
Nobody wants anything from me,so that's a good thing.
And it's also with a businessand a child.
(43:18):
Time is very, very precious andvery short.
There's never enough time forall the things we want to do.
So that's the resource and I'mvery aware of the resource I
very often protect, because if Iget into situations where I,
you know, where I lower myenergy because I hate being
there, or I just get into a badmood because of certain things,
(43:39):
people, whatever it is, thenthat's costing me time and
efficiency.
And you know we don't haveunlimited time.
So I own this one to me, that Iuse my time for the things that
matter.
And you know, something Ilearned is it's really a
difference.
Whom do I disappoint?
So you know, if I disappoint a40, 50 year old grown man or
(44:04):
woman, yeah, exactly, you knowyou.
I disappoint a 40, 50 year oldgrown man or woman?
Yeah, exactly, you know you'rea grown person so you can deal
with this.
You're responsible for yourlife, for your, you know, for
your choices, for whatever.
And if you're making badchoices, whatever it is, it's
your responsibility.
I'm not your therapist.
So if I'm disappointing mydaughter, that's differently
because she's still little,she's still dependent.
(44:26):
So in quite a couple ofscenarios I would choose to not
disappoint her.
But you know the thing is, whenwe make an active choice here,
then it's not costing us.
So if I choose to not do what Iwant to do on this weekend but
instead do something thatcreates a memorable experience
(44:48):
for her, then this fills up myown cup and makes me happy and
connects me to her.
So in the end I haven't losttime, I haven't lost energy, I
haven't lost anything.
I've gained a lot of things.
But that required me to workthrough all the layers that are
involved in deciding if I sayyes or no.
(45:09):
And sometimes it still happens.
I think for all of us, nomatter how an expert you are
boundaries.
Sometimes you're saying no andyou're disappointing people and
it hurts a little bit.
Sometimes that happens andsometimes it's a thing we just
need to work through.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
I would love to tell you something differently, but
yeah, that's it.
I think that goes back to whatyou said earlier.
There's cause and effect, right, you do something, and there's
that cause and there's secondand third order effects.
And so I think you mentioned itperfectly when you said it's
not always easy to just make thedecision and see it through and
it's just all good.
I mean, there's still going tobe second and third order things
.
You know ripple outward.
So you need to be okay and solidinto the decision you made
(45:53):
because, like you said, you tookin the information, you made
the choice and then at thatpoint you got to own whatever
comes out of it, because thereare going to be things.
But I think that is a goodreminder where we want things to
be easy.
And oh, because I looked backat my values, it's going to work
out perfectly and no one'sgoing to get hurt.
It's like no, you went back andyou focus on what was important
to you.
It doesn't mean it was going tobe perfect, it just mean that's
(46:14):
what you're supposed to do andyou know the grown people can
get over it yeah so yeah, Ithink that's good.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Life is life thing.
So no matter how well I preparemy decision, how aligned my
decision is, in fact, I neverknow 100% how it turns out in
the end.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Absolutely Well.
I'd like to try to bring it alltogether, nadia.
So how does setting boundaries,identifying values, overcoming
your inner critic in harmony tocreate a fulfilling, authentic
life?
How does it all come together?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
It's a circle.
It comes together as a circle,you know, it strengthens each
other and it allows us tointentionally create a life that
feels true to us.
So we've talked about badrelationships.
We've talked about bad jobs,and I think we all can relate to
a situation where we woke upand thought why the hell am I in
(47:09):
this job?
What the hell happened to mylife?
Why am I with a person whomakes me feel miserable and
hating life?
And that's a very, very sad andconcerning place to be, and it's
actually wasting our mostprecious resource, time, because
with this time, we could havecreated something that's
(47:33):
beautiful, maybe not always easy, not perfect, but beautiful in
its own way.
So it comes together asallowing us to create a life
that's not a perfect life, butthat's our unique, true and
authentic vision of who we are,and I think who we are is a big
part of the magic of theuniverse, a part of God, however
(47:56):
you want to refer to it, butthere is something unseen,
beautiful, magically wondrouswithin each of us and that has
to be expressed.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Absolutely yeah, magically wondrous within each
of us and that has to beexpressed.
Absolutely yeah.
I think that's the perfectreminder.
I think if anyone's out there,you know, stuck in those
situations where you're justuncomfortable, obviously there's
going to be some discomfort inlife.
As we said, there's no manual.
It's not perfect, but if it's alittle too much than just a
little discomfort, I mean, Ithink you got to take that step,
leap of faith.
You know, make sure you're notjust winging it.
(48:29):
You know, if it's your job orfinances, make sure you're not
just, you know jumping off thecliff.
And you know making a crazydecision.
But think back and you know,you know, in the future, in five
and 10 years where you're neverwhere you thought you could
possibly be, things are awesome.
You years where you're neverwhere you thought you could
possibly be, things are awesome.
You know things are much betterthan you thought.
Again, not perfect, like yousaid, but think of, you know,
(48:55):
that change that you could have.
If it's not comfortable, you'renot where you know that you
should be, then I say get afterit.
You know, try to figuresomething out.
But, nadia, I wanted to giveyou the final takeaway.
So what would you wantlisteners to take away from this
wonderful episode?
Speaker 2 (49:05):
I want you to take away the absolute certainty that
you can learn to say no, andthat you can.
You know it's practice, so youdon't have to accommodate
everybody and everything in yourlife and losing yourself.
You're absolutely required tobe yourself, to bring into this
(49:26):
beautiful life your beautiful,unique essence.
And something I can promise andI can't promise a lot of things
, but something I can definitelypromise is that creating your
authentic life by saying no towhat not aligns to you is a
practice.
It becomes easier the more wetrain it, until one day it will
be second nature.
(49:47):
So if someone like me, who hasbeen a prime example of a people
pleaser, can say no absolutelycomfortably without thinking
about it, then I can guaranteeyou you can too, and you're
absolutely entitled to do so.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Awesome.
Thank you, nadia.
I ask listeners, please providefeedback.
Let me know what you think onInstagram, facebook, TikTok,
youtube, buzzsprout, all overthe place.
Give me thoughts, comments.
Let me know if you want to jumpon the show, but I love you all
See ya, thank you.
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