March 7, 2025 • 47 mins
Let's dive deep into the Metaverse, reflecting on our three-year journey, and discussing the hidden pros and cons of immersive digital platforms.
While the Metaverse offers unprecedented connection, are we fully aware of how it affects our mental health, relationships, and digital habits? During this episode we'll explore how a pro can also be a con, and why we must be mindful of the evolving digital landscape.
Key Topics Discussed in This Episode:
✅ The Evolution of the Metaverse – How has it changed over the past three years?
✅ Digital Presence vs. Real-Life Connection – Are we replacing in-person interactions?
✅ The Psychology of Social Platforms – Why does social media and the Metaverse trigger addiction and anxiety?
✅ The Risks of Losing Digital Communities – What happens when virtual worlds shut down?
✅ How Avatars Are Becoming Identities – The unintended emotional attachment to digital personas.
✅ The Algorithm Trap – How social platforms manipulate our attention and emotions.
Did you know? Studies show that social media overuse is linked to increased anxiety and depression, and the Metaverse may amplify this effect. We also discuss insights from the documentary The Social Dilemma and how businesses can reclaim control over their digital communities.
Links Mentioned:
- https://www.braininstitute.pitt.edu/using-lots-social-media-sites-raises-depression-risk
- https://childmind.org/article/is-social-media-use-causing-depression/
Let's Figure This Out Together:
- Schedule a Discovery Call
- Book Brian for a Keynote, Speaking Engagement, Team Workshop or Interview
- Get Help with Digital Strategy, Consulting, or Coaching
Affiliate Links:
- Launch your own podcast on BuzzSprout
- Join us LIVE in VR at the Killer Bee Studios by grabbing an Oculus headset. Plus, earn some reward points from Meta!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Curee (00:00):
Well, hey, welcome back to the Mindful Bytes
podcast.
I'm excited about ourdiscussion today.
Today, we're going to talkabout the Metaverse it's a
Metaverse check-in but we'realso going to talk about
concerns, concerns, not onlywith the Metaverse, but also
with digital platforms acrossthe board.
Let's go ahead and introducethe crew.
So we have today.
(00:21):
We have Olivia.
Olivia, introduce yourself.
You are the social media queen,or something like that, aren't
you?
I can't remember.
Olivia Yetman (00:30):
Millennial.
Brian Curee (00:31):
Millennial.
Okay yeah.
Olivia Yetman (00:33):
Yeah, I'm Olivia, the social media obsessed
millennial.
Brian Curee (00:39):
Obsessed.
I love that Obsessed.
Ashton Curee (00:41):
Yeah, I'm Ashton.
You're a Gen Z gadget fanatic.
Brian Curee (00:46):
Fanatic, and I am Brian, your Gen X business
leader, that's taking adifferent look of how to use
these digital platforms.
Today, guys, each one of ushere that's in this podcast
episode has been in theMetaverse.
We've been in there for oh mygosh, over three years, so
(01:06):
there's a lot of stuff we'velearned and I thought, hey, this
is a good time to talk and havea check-in, a Metaverse
check-in and if you're alreadytuning out sorry, you're going
to miss some good conversations,but if you're still in there,
hang in there, because there aresome concerns that I think it's
important for us to look at anddiscuss.
But it's not just Metaverseconcerns.
One of the things that I'vebeen learning recently is you
(01:27):
know, we talk a lot about thegood and the bad of different
digital technologies strategies,the way we use them, but I've
realized that a lot of thesepros can be a double-edged sword
.
Double-edged sword, I guessthat's the way you say it
correctly, because a pro canalso be a con.
Is that confusing when I saythat?
(01:49):
No, but a pro can be a con, andthat's something that I want to
talk about.
So you know, just like withMindful Bites, the whole podcast
here is about being moremindful and understanding how
these technologies and platformscan have those good and bad
effects in our life.
So if we want to hear yourguys' thoughts too, so if you're
tuned in, make sure you checkthis right down there in our
(02:11):
show notes.
There's a way that you can textus.
Just click that link and youcan text us your thoughts,
questions and you might hear ustalking about it on the next
episode.
So all right with that.
I'm excited to talk about theMetaverse.
We've been in there for threeyears.
As I said earlier, if you'venever been in the Metaverse,
it's basically the easiest wayto explain it is.
It's like an immersiveexperience.
(02:32):
You imagine, putting on aheadset, you step into a virtual
world or mixed reality wherethings are coming.
These virtual objects and itemsare coming into your real life
space and you can interact withthem.
So very immersive and theconnectivity.
Olivia, when we first steppedin the Metaverse, do you
remember that, that moment, likethree years ago?
(02:54):
What was it like?
What was your initial thoughts?
Olivia Yetman (02:58):
Yeah.
So yeah, even though it's threeyears ago, I can still remember
it so vividly because it was sodifferent.
But it just was.
It felt like connection, likenever before, Right, Like we
weren't you and I weren't in thesame room.
We had met some people, but itfelt like we were in the exact
(03:22):
same room actually, as we wouldbe like face to face in real
life.
Brian Curee (03:28):
So yeah, and and Ashton.
How about you, Ashton?
How long have you been in theMetaverse now?
Ashton Curee (03:35):
I think it's been about two and a half years.
Brian Curee (03:37):
I came in just after you, like a few months
after you yep, and I think thatI think that is what was the
thing that stood out the most toyou, because I mean, you're a
gadget guy, you're into thesedigital technologies of what,
and I know you've grown youhaven't grown up in social media
, though you've been in the eraof social media.
(03:57):
A lot of people, these Gen Zs.
That's the world they live in.
Now I know for you, Ashton, youdidn't get into social media
and stuff until you were 18because we knew as parents,
understanding the dangers of howthat can have on your mental
health and stuff, and especiallyas a child, the way you think
(04:19):
we wanted to make sure weprotected you from that until
you got to an older age and youunderstood the dangers and the
benefits as well of steppinginto those.
So when you, what was yourfirst experience?
Like in the Metaverse, when youput on that virtual reality
headset?
Ashton Curee (04:37):
immediately.
I thought it was superinteresting because of how you
can create worlds in there.
You can make your own entireenvironment for nothing and from
nothing.
I've always enjoyed buildingthings, but normally if you're
working with wood you've got togo buy wood, and wood is not
(05:00):
cheap.
And so all of a sudden you havethis headset you can put on,
and once you have the headset,there's nothing else you're
buying.
You're not buying storage,you're not buying anything else
for it.
You can build whatever you want, and then people come out and
check whatever you built.
If you build a social space,people are going to go there and
(05:22):
hang out.
If you build a game, people aregoing to go and play the game.
So that was immediately.
What was super interesting tome was the community that had
been built in there and thepossibilities of what you could
build in there.
Brian Curee (05:36):
Yeah, I think that the community I think has been a
huge, as we continued for, youknow, for three years now, has
continued to kind of blow meaway, like the connections that
we're making in there, just asyou shared, Olivia, when we
first stepped in there.
The presence, that immersivepresence, really felt like the
people were in the same roomwith you.
You know you can give eachother a high five.
(05:56):
Back then, Olivia, if youremember, we didn't have legs.
Yeah, now we got legs and we'reall running around like look at
my legs, but it's really grown.
That technology has actuallygrown pretty quickly over the
last three years.
We've seen it really evolve.
Now, with that, the platformthat we use is MetaHorizon.
That's the platform that we use, but that's not the only
(06:19):
Metaverse app out there.
There's several differentplatforms.
So for those of you tuning in,you're like, well, I don't
understand, is the Metaversemeta?
It's not.
So let's go ahead and clearthat up.
Metaverse is not meta.
He's just very smart when itcomes to his branding and what
he did, why he changed that name.
Very smart, Zuckerberg.
Very smart.
But it's not just meta.
(06:39):
Think of the Metaverse as likethe internet.
That's the best way I've beenable to explain it.
Think of it as the internet.
No single individual owns it,but we can all build websites
and our businesses and we haveour websites on there where we
can connect with people from allaround the world.
It's the same thing with theMetaverse.
The Metaverse isn't owned byanybody.
It's a space that you can goand build.
You can build virtual worlds.
(07:00):
You can create your own appsthat people can connect with and
you own that app, unless you'reusing a leased property like
Verizon Worlds, which is more ofa social app, but think of
those apps and your virtualworlds as, like the new websites
(07:20):
, you're stepping into it.
You can actually meet customers, leads right in these virtual
immersive experiences.
So a lot of cool things.
We've written articles aboutabout it so you can go check
them out.
I'll make sure I'll put somelinks in the show notes if you
want to check that out.
But what I want to talk abouttoday is the pros and cons.
Uh, one of the things Oliviaand I know Ashton, we just
(07:41):
talked about this at a.
We host a in the Metaverse, atthe Killer Bee Studios, which is
our virtual world.
We host once a month we host ameetup called Mission XR Meetup,
and what that is about isthat's with a company that we
help write and do research on XRtechnologies, which is XR is
basically an umbrella foreverything like mixed reality,
(08:05):
virtual reality, augmentedreality XR stands for extended
reality, so it's just anumbrella where everything falls
underneath that, because there'snew ones coming out all the
time.
So we have this meetup once amonth to kind of discuss our
experiences, learn from that,help each other, share what
we're doing in hopes to use thistechnology for missions to help
(08:26):
people in their life.
So with that, with our lastmeetup, we had an incident, I
guess, that we wanted to talkabout and I think it's important
for us to talk about today,because, just as these
technologies have pros and thisis where I think the pros and
cons like sometimes your pro canbe a con as well we know how
(08:49):
the pro of XR technology, theseimmersive experiences, are
creating an atmosphere that wecan connect in a way that has
never been possible with digitalbefore.
As you said, Olivia, you reallyfeel like you're there, like
you really feel like you'rehanging out with people, which
is creating a different type ofconnection.
(09:09):
Think about, like, even withsocial media, social media
creates a connection, but, asyou know, Olivia, how would you
compare the connection versus onXR or VR, versus social social
media?
How would you compare thedifference?
Olivia Yetman (09:28):
so with um, like the Metaverse, right, I think it
is way more comparative to reallife, where, um, right away you
can start talking to someoneand develop a connection.
Where with social media ittakes a little bit to, number
one, capture someone's attentionwith the algorithm, right, and
(09:52):
then some people aren't eventaking it to the next step,
which is, you know, askingquestions, getting to know the
people, so they're not evenactually connecting, they're
just projecting a message.
So that's where I feel likeit's different with the
Metaverse, because it's like areyou just going in the Metaverse
(10:14):
?
And if Brian, for example,comes up to me and he was like
hey, Olivia, a majority of thepeople aren't just going to
stand there and say nothing,right, you're actually going to
have conversations where onsocial media, a business could
post something and say nothingto you.
So, yeah, so.
Brian Curee (10:34):
Yeah, and it's pretty cool too, cause, like I
was just thinking when you weresaying that, you know, I don't
know, do you ever go like, doyou ever have like meetups as
much on social media Like, hey,hey, we're gonna go meet up?
Like do you connect with yourfriends and say we're gonna meet
up?
That happens on in theMetaverse every day, uh, and,
but it's because of thattechnology.
(10:55):
So what I wanted to share, youknow, the last meet meeting we
just had in there was talkingabout an unfortunate situation
where, um, someone had someone'solder sibling committed suicide
and we had connected to thiswith this person in there.
So we had a whole topicdiscussion about that, that
(11:17):
whole situation where someonehas committed suicide and
understand that these are realpeople behind these avatars and
what are some signs we shouldlook for and understand.
So, because we have thisconnection, this opportunity,
that people are very vulnerableand open up, so we want to not
take things for granted but lookat these as the opportunities
they are and help people thatmight be facing that.
(11:40):
So that got us talking aboutpros and cons.
So, knowing that one of the prosof this technology is the
connection People are makinglegit friendships and they're
meeting people from around theworld.
Some of them are actuallymeeting in person.
Again, if there's any kidslistening to this, if you're on
those platforms, do not meetwith anybody from the Metaverse
(12:02):
in person.
That is dangerous, butdangerous.
But some of the adults we knowthat's been going to virtual
churches.
They've built a whole community.
They have connected at publicevents like the Ark Encounter
and stuff like that from peoplearound the world.
We've met a couple that was thepastor of the church actually
here where we live in CentralFlorida, but we've spent years
(12:25):
connecting with them and again,we're adults so we can kind of
kind of make that judgment.
But with that, with that pro ofthe connection that it brings,
another thing that we have tolook at is, uh, I was talking to
somebody Olivia and Ashtonafter that meeting and they said
when I think of the Metaverseshe was sharing, that she's been
(12:47):
speaking, I guess, to a classor something like that that she
works with about the Metaverseand she's like I'm talking about
the pros and cons but I reallycan't find many cons which I get
it.
It's hard to do that unless youreally look at how a pro might
be a con.
So connection like we've neverexpected it or experienced in
digital can also be a conbecause, again, this is a lease
(13:09):
property that we're on.
So if that is taken away, thatpro of man I've like really
creating meaningful connections.
I'm connecting with people fromaround the world.
I feel like we're really closefriends and then all of a sudden
somebody cuts that off that youdon't have control over.
That causes a withdrawal thatnobody has really had to ever
(13:31):
think about as deeply, becausenone of the platforms that we
have really connect that deeply.
It's like losing a loved one.
I don't know if, Olivia, didyou ever hear about Allspace?
Did?
Olivia Yetman (13:46):
you hear about Altspace?
Yeah, I heard of it yeah, andactually we were talking a lot
about it when we were first inthe Metaverse.
Brian Curee (13:53):
Yes, so did you.
So Altspace was bought byMicrosoft and as soon as
Microsoft bought it, they closedit down.
They shut it down.
Yeah, I don't know the reasonswhy, but nobody thought of how
it was going to affect thosepeople that had built these
communities.
You know, you had churches, youhad huge communities that had
(14:13):
been built, people had thesefriends and all of a sudden they
just lost connection fromeverybody overnight.
And I know I have a friend inthere that is a certified life
behavioral coach and he said hewas doing therapy sessions for
over two years with people.
And there's still people thatstill feel this depression of
losing connections with thesepeople that they met with in
(14:36):
Metaverse.
So it's like, even though thatconnection is a pro, it's also a
con, and I think it's somethingthat I wanted to talk about,
because I think it's important,with any digital technology that
we're using, that we really sitdown and reflect on the pros
and the cons, the good and thebad, and always be kind of in a
(14:59):
mindset of that pro might be acon, that good might be a bad.
How can it transition it?
How is it going to affectpeople?
So, for instance, I'm going tobring in this conversation.
I want to open it up for us totalk about.
But even look at the socialdilemma Like you guys have you
both you watched the documentarythe social dilemma on Netflix.
So we know about social media,like there's pros and cons of
(15:22):
that.
So I would love to just kind ofstop there for a second, see if
you guys have anything you guyswant to share and talk about
with this, this pro and con kindof mentality, before we go
further um, I mean, you knowthere, sometimes, when you are
(15:44):
starting something new which Iwould still consider, um, you
know the Metaverse like reallynew, even though you know it's
been around for a while.
Olivia Yetman (15:54):
Um, sometimes you know, like, when you get into
something like that, you havewhat they call like the
honeymoon phase, or like you'rewearing like rose colored
glasses, where you just seeeverything because it's so new
and exciting and all of thosethings.
It's just like everything isamazing and blah, blah, blah.
(16:17):
Well, then you can think aboutit as like a marriage, right
After you've been with someonefor a while, things I mean not
to say they're not good, but youknow, you might have some more
like arguments or there might belike things that kind of start
annoying you or whatever it maybe.
(16:38):
So I think that sometimespeople get stuck though in the
honeymoon phase and they can'tmove past it.
So it's like this is amazingand then things go, they're not
as amazing or something shifts,but all they're trying to do is
to get back to that honeymoonphase, if that makes sense so
(17:03):
they're basically like yeah, sothat's kind of my thoughts on it
.
It's like so exciting,everything's just like I'm
connecting with all of thesepeople, um, and it's kind of
hard to see the negatives, andthere are a lot of positives.
But and also, you know, toomuch of a good thing isn't
(17:27):
always a good thing.
Brian Curee (17:28):
That is a good point.
Yeah that's a very good point.
Ashton Curee (17:32):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because we've never
seen a social I guess you couldsay platform, social, I guess
you could say platform.
We've never seen anythingsocial like this, as powerful as
what this is where it'sactually able to.
It basically tricks the humanbrain into thinking that you're
looking at a real person's faceand we've really noticed that
(17:56):
we're like, even when you'rejust having conversations,
especially if you have a metapro where it has facial tracking
, it feels like you're talkingstraight to a person and so it
almost can emulate a socialexperience where you don't have
to go out into the real worldand actually talk to people.
(18:18):
You can just talk to people inthis headset, the real world,
and actually talk to people.
You can just talk to people inthis headset.
And I think I don't think thedanger is even just in the
Metaverse, but as more and morenew social platforms develop
where we're getting closer andcloser to that, uh, to emulating
that.
I think it's just like ageneral danger now of it wasn't
(18:40):
ever meant to replace what it'sdoing, but it's reaching a point
to where, if people are onthere enough and they're
sacrificing time to go spendtime with their family, that it
actually could be a real danger.
Like you were saying, it's sogood, it's such a pro that it
becomes a con.
Brian Curee (19:01):
I think that that's a really good point and from
what both of you were sharingthere, you know, it kind of
makes a touch on a couple ofthings.
That came to my mind as we'reprocessing and discussing this
was, you know, Olivia, as youwere talking about you know,
kind of being that honeymoonstage and there comes a time,
like after you've been there fora while, that kind of starts
(19:23):
dying off and you start seeingthe bad things and, you know,
not everything's great and thosethings are going to grow on any
platforms that we're on newplatforms that we're testing out
.
One of the things that Iremember when we first got in
there, I was like thepossibilities are limitless,
like there's you know's so many,there's no limit.
But then I had to correctmyself because I'm like no, wait
(19:46):
a minute, there are limits.
We're just now learning whatthose limits are.
Olivia Yetman (19:50):
And it's the same thing here.
Brian Curee (19:51):
We're still learning, even with social media
.
Like Ashton, you said it wasn'tcreated.
It was created to bring thisconnection, but there's also
cons of that Same thing withsocial media.
Social media was created, uh, Iguess let me rephrase that.
You said this technology wasn'tcreated to replace real life,
(20:12):
but it can start creating ablurred vision of what is real
life and what's virtual life ormixed reality, whatever is that
Metaverse with real life?
You know some people don't likeit when you use IRL because IRL
Olivia do you know whatOlivia's going to know?
Because she's a millennial.
Ashton Curee (20:29):
In real life I was going to say don't even ask.
Brian Curee (20:32):
Yes, see, in real life, some people in the
Metaverse don't like it when youuse that, when you say well in
IRL and they're like this isreal okay yeah, it's, you know
there's.
There's already a line therethat's starting to get blurred
like it's really not real life.
You don't really know thepeople like you.
(20:52):
You know them at a differentlevel than social media, yeah,
but you don't know them ifyou're hanging out and having
dinner with each other and youknow and known each other for
years, and Ashton before youbefore you, uh, share your
thought.
It kind of made me think aboutthe same thing of social media.
Social media when it was firstcreated, the even technology
across the board, cell phones,everything.
(21:13):
It was created to bring uscloser together, but you know,
look at, over the years, it'sactually pulled us apart.
I don't know, Olivia, would youagree with that?
Would you think that there is?
Olivia Yetman (21:25):
Yeah, 100%, and I'll let Ashton share, but I
also have some more to add.
Go ahead, Ashton.
Ashton Curee (21:33):
I was just going to say it's actually really
interesting.
This is a similarcharacteristic across all social
platforms of you're only seeingthe highlights.
Yeah, and that is such adangerous thing, because I think
that's why some people can getaddicted to social is because
it's all about the highlights.
There's hardly ever any bad onthere and I like, a few years
(21:59):
back, streaming like on Twitchand Kik went viral.
So many people were doing itand even now it's still very
popular.
But, especially just a fewyears ago, it was huge and I
think that's the next closestthing because it felt more raw.
But I mean, really, it stillhighlights, it just feels it
(22:20):
gives the illusion.
Yeah, it gives the, theillusion like, yeah, it gives
the illusion.
Exactly, it gives the illusionof being more transparent and
raw.
And the headsets are just likeone more step past live
streaming.
Brian Curee (22:36):
Yeah, because you're able to see past a 2d
screen or at least what it feelslike you can reach out and grab
things that's messes with youcan really change the whole
approach.
So yeah, that's a really goodpoint.
Olivia Yetman (22:47):
Asher, very good point yeah, um, I was gonna say
too in regards to like theMetaverse and even social
(23:09):
platforms, like the thing aboutit as well is you get to pick
and choose, too right.
You can just like decide tolike take a break or move, you
know, just like, oh, I'm notgonna be on Instagram anymore,
or whatever it may be, but thatdoesn't necessarily translate to
(23:31):
real life, so you're kind oflike losing those skills as well
where it's like no, in reallife you have to talk through
things with people.
Like you can't just shut downbecause that that, when you shut
down like that, that depression, right, you can't get out of
bed, you can't function, likethings like that, so it doesn't.
(23:53):
It also kind of numbs ourskills to be able to do those
things in real life because youcan create.
You know, like Ashton's talkingabout all the highlights.
Well, you can do that foryourself too, right, you can
just present your good side andthen if someone has a criticism
and whatever I'm not talking to,I'm going to block that.
(24:16):
Like it's so easy to blocksomeone that doesn't fit your
narrative of conflict resolutionin the workplace.
Ashton Curee (24:48):
It's a huge thing right now.
Yeah, and it's because ofmultiple reasons, because we're
considered the most emotionallyaware generation, which I have
no clue.
If that's true, I haven't founda study to back that.
That is something a lot ofpeople say, and because of our
communication style is verydifferent because of the same
(25:09):
thing, and I wonder.
I do really wonder if socialhas played so much of a role in
that.
Just like you were saying, it'sso easy just to remove yourself
from a situation and just to bemad and just to walk away
instead of actually trying toresolve that.
And I think, especially as mygeneration is reaching this
(25:32):
point of becoming parents, Ithink we're going to see a lot
more of that.
And even if you look at thedating world now, it's the same
exact thing People break upbecause of the tiniest little
things.
And it's that same exact thingof we can't like so much of my
generation can't resolveconflict.
There's exceptions, but if youlook at the whole, the average,
(25:57):
it does seem that way.
Brian Curee (25:59):
it does seem that way, yeah, and I think that has
a lot to do with what you know.
The generations are growing upwithin, you know.
So growing up in theseplatforms, where there really
wasn't that, you didn't, youdidn't have the like.
I guess the normal routinewasn't to go outside and play in
the woods and stuff like that.
It was.
They're on phones.
You know you're on phones andyou're in those environments, so
(26:21):
you're not really we've talkedabout this before A lot of these
younger generations don'treally know what a meaningful
connection is.
Those connections are alldigital, so so I think that
plays a role into it a littlebit as well.
You know, I think that, aseverything that we're talking
about here, I think it's alwaysimportant to remember that even
on these platforms, their agendais different.
(26:43):
That's what I liked about theSocial Dilemma it really focuses
on.
It talks about.
It's a documentary.
If you haven't seen it, gocheck it out on Netflix, but it
talks about how social mediaalgorithms are designed to
create an addiction and adependency.
I mean, I don't know, Oliviayou just talked about.
You know you can.
A lot of people can choose.
I'm not going to be onInstagram anymore.
You know I'm going through thisprocess.
(27:04):
Right now I'm trying to figureout like, where do I want to
really be present on my personal, social and business?
And there's a lot of shiftsthat's changing.
Because, Olivia, if you thoughtabout taking a break from
TikTok or if you said I'm goingto turn TikTok off for a week,
would that create any kind ofanxiety in you, do you think?
Olivia Yetman (27:28):
Yeah, I mean, we saw it when TikTok went away for
a day, I was like, oh my God,it was just a natural thing.
I wouldn't even think about it.
And I'm like I'm going on myphone clicking on TikTok I'm not
even thinking about it, right,like I was like this is, this is
bad.
I mean, that's the thing, likeI can recognize it's bad.
(27:50):
But, like you know, I'mthinking about even younger than
Ashton, where they don't reallyknow life before that.
And so, yeah, it is, it's scary.
But yeah, I, I had like, uh,when I watched the social
dilemma, there was a crisis thatI had of, like I, I'm trying to
(28:12):
get more businesses and peopleon it and I'm like, wow, I felt
very weird about that.
Brian Curee (28:20):
I get it.
It's like you know once youbecome aware, then you have to
also you become aware of thecons, right?
So we know that, like theseplatforms social media, even you
know, you know, when it comesto these Metaverse stuff, all
these different technologies westart becoming aware of the cons
(28:40):
.
So I don't want to ignore thecons.
We need to consider that evenin how we use them.
We need to be more mindful ofthat, not just for ourselves,
but for the people that we'rehelping to coach the people that
we're helping them to how touse it to connect with their
audience.
I'm sure it has changed some ofyour coaching approaches,
(29:02):
Olivia, with people in the radioindustry that we do coaching
with, because now you have aresponsibility, we are aware.
So what do we do with that?
And I think that's one of theshifts that you've seen what
we've started doing on ourwebsite on KB Digital.
If you check out kbdigitalcom,you're going to find blogs there
, but we're looking at the prosand the cons On a lot of stuff.
(29:25):
You're going to find differentcomparisons of what's the good,
what's the bad, so that way youcan come up with your own
conclusion, your own decisionand take ownership of what you
decide to do, but you've becomemore aware, and I feel like
that's more important now.
That's an important piece ofstrategy is understanding the
pros and cons, and there's goingto be other pros and cons
(29:45):
that's going to surface if youdecide to step down any of these
paths, using any of thesetechnologies or platforms.
But you need to continue tokeep a list of that and always
reflect back and say, hey, okay,let's press pause.
We're aware of this.
Here's some new pros, here'ssome new cons.
Now that we're aware, let'spress pause.
We're aware of this.
Here's some new pros, here'ssome new cons.
Now that we're aware, let'stalk about it and reflect on it
(30:05):
and say, hey, do we need to hita reset or we need to do a
reboot?
What do we need to do here withour plans moving forward?
Because, just like this is oneof the things that's been having
me think lately, Olivia andAshton, even about our business,
killer Bee Digital, is we workwith clients trying to help give
them strategies on how toconnect to people on these
platforms, but then also one ofthe biggest complaints I've
(30:30):
heard over the last probablydecade now is we are losing
connection with our audience.
All the algorithms.
We're sick of the algorithmsand I'm like there's other
options out there.
If all these things changing somuch, weren't we putting
together a strategy and helpingbusinesses and organizations
transition to a new shift, a newmindset of social community
(30:53):
where you actually own it andyou control it?
You don't have to have analgorithm anymore.
You're no more algorithm.
You have direct connection tothem, even if those platforms go
away.
So those are some of the thingswe're stepping into this year
because I see like it'simportant and, with the shift
and changes in digital, whywouldn't we change our approach?
(31:14):
So I think it's time to startchanging that, and one of the
things is we're talking aboutthe mindset and how the control
this has.
I found something I thought youmight find interesting Olivia
and Ashton both about now.
This is particular about socialmedia.
Now, I'm saying social mediabecause we all can relate, just
(31:36):
like Olivia right now.
I stopped using Instagram.
I was like I'm not going to useInstagram for my personal, I'm
going to use Facebook.
Well, then I started realizingthat I got a lot of junk coming
in on my Facebook stuff, stuffthat I just don't want to see.
I didn't have that on Instagram, and then I realized a lot more
people see my stories onInstagram.
They're not seeing my storieson Facebook.
(31:57):
So I'm like okay, maybe I'lluse Instagram and I'll not use
Facebook.
So it's like this, like rollercoaster, like this I mean,
Ashton, I don't know, you're noton, are you on?
Ashton Curee (32:09):
any social platforms, so I was for a little
while.
I'm not on them as much rightnow, and that is specifically
because I blame Google for this.
That is specifically because ofshorts.
Brian Curee (32:21):
That sounds really personal, I blame.
Olivia Yetman (32:22):
Google for this.
Are you letting them decidewhat you wear?
Ashton Curee (32:26):
Ashton, wow, I was not happy because I would go on
there to look for something andthe app immediately opens to
Shorts.
It's so easy to get pulled awayand to doom scroll and the
other thing is is they arelistening.
So, because I same exact issueI had on Facebook, I would talk
(32:51):
about something once and thenwalk away and not think about it
anymore and all of a sudden,that's all my feed is and I'm
like I don't want that.
I specifically curated my feedbecause it's what I want to see.
It's beneficial to me, it makesme productive, and then it's
automatically trying to changethat and this is going to be
(33:12):
hilarious.
But that's why I like Reddit.
Reddit's the only thing I'm onnow and that's exactly why.
Because I can curate my exactfeed.
And there was another app wewere just looking at a few
months ago Blue Sky.
Yeah, blue Sky.
Is that what it was?
I liked it for that, but itwasn't productive enough for me.
(33:33):
Reddit has such a communitybuilt for everything, whether
it's me working on guitars or meworking on terrariums, or me
working on whatever, evendigital stuff.
There's such a communityalready built there and it's so
much easier for me to use thatversus something like YouTube
(33:56):
where it's automatically tryingto change your feed and I can't
do that.
Brian Curee (34:01):
I love that we have a Gen Z on here that's talking
about I don't use it becauseit's not productive for me.
I love hearing that because,really, to be honest, that's a
thing that I think people needto become more aware of, like
are these digital tools that I'musing?
Are they productive for me, formy business, for me personally?
(34:22):
Those are important things tolook at and acknowledging.
You're talking about right nowthe frustrations of losing
control, not having control.
This is not what you wanted tosee, but you're out of control.
You don't have that control.
So there's things that we'relooking at putting in place that
we can utilize to do that, toreclaim that control, to reclaim
(34:42):
that connection, that ownershipWith the people.
I think the whole mindset ofyou know.
We've been reading this book,Ashton.
You and me listened to it alittle bit, but it's called the
Gap and the Gain and it'stalking about living.
Are you living in the gap orare you living in the gain?
And it's talking about living.
Are you living in the gap orare you living in the gain?
(35:03):
And it's talking about findingtrue happiness, like you can be.
Uh, if people, if you're livingin the gap, people aren't happy
and kind of give you a reallyquick explanation of what I mean
in gap and gain is you know,Olivia, you know like we set
goals, like we have this ideathis is where we want to be
right in the business.
This is our ideal, this iswhere we want to go.
Idea this is where we want tobe right in the business.
This is our ideal, this iswhere we want to go.
We have goals set.
(35:23):
So we have a goal set righthere and what's happening is
we're aiming to hit that goaland sometimes you hit it,
sometimes you don't.
If you don't hit it, you couldsit there and say we wanted to
have 30 subscribers.
We only got 22.
Like, why didn't we get 30?
What did we do wrong?
Okay, we're living in the gap.
Right now, we're living in asection of saying we did not
obtain our goal.
Or you could actually hit yourgoal and still be in the gap
(35:45):
because you're like, yeah, butwe're not here yet and you're
not happy of where you've been,where you've come from.
That's the gain.
So he's talking about living inthe gain, saying, okay, we
wanted to hit 30, but we hit 22.
Well, you could be living inthe gap and be beating yourself
up or your team about we didn'thit 30.
Why?
Or you could say, hey, wedidn't hit our goal, but look at
(36:07):
the gain, look how far we'vecome, and then you adjust and
you keep moving forward.
So it's a very interesting book.
You should definitely check itout.
But it's the same thing withsocial media.
Social media is really good attrying to keep us in that gap.
Right, you're comparingyourself to others where you
want to be Always striving formore.
Yes, or striving for more, andit's like we've got to get
(36:30):
ourselves out of those gaps.
So I think becoming aware, likewhat you're talking about there
, Ashton, is a key part.
Anybody that's interested, andI do know.
I don't know if you considerthis a social app and Olivia,
maybe you can answer this Ithink it's more of a messaging
app.
I guess it would fall into.
But, marco Polo, it's not new.
It's been around for a longtime now.
(36:50):
Is that social or more of likea messaging, would you say?
Olivia Yetman (36:53):
I would say more of like a messaging, just like
video texting basically.
Brian Curee (36:58):
Yeah, so we I know you're on that, Ashton, and I
see you using that all the timewhat?
Yeah, I've been using it a tonnow.
Why Like?
Why?
What do you like about it?
Ashton Curee (37:08):
I honestly don't know.
It's like it's just a littlebit better of a connection.
I feel like I guess that'sactually exactly the reason is
texting is fine and all and Ihate, I hate calling.
That's like the most Gen Zthing about me.
I hate phone calling.
I don't like that.
(37:30):
But I think it's both.
It's easier to talk to a face.
We've known that for years,even just in videography, where
it's like you know, you tape thelittle face on your camera to
make it easier to talk to thecamera.
Same exact concept.
And now you're talking to avideo and I think it's just
(37:51):
better because you can hear thetones, you can get the context
almost.
You know so much of talking iscontext where there could be
quotations on something and itcompletely changes the meaning
of a sentence.
I don't know if you've evertaken a sentence and you go
through each word and you addquotations to each word
(38:12):
independently and see how itaffects the sentence.
It's the same exact thing oflike understanding the context
through tone and through.
What does this word actuallymean and what is the definitions
of this word?
Because you can sometimes seelike someone being hesitant to
say a certain word and then allof a sudden, you know the
(38:33):
definition is not there.
The definitions can bedifferent in between two
different people makes totalsense.
Brian Curee (38:37):
I think that, yeah, I think that, for you know,
it's something that we're usingnow, and we're using it.
We've created something calledthe buzz line, which we're
sharing things just like this,like, well, some of the things
that we talk about in mindfulbites.
I'll just put out a littlethought and it goes to everybody
that's connected with it andthey can video message me back
and nobody else sees it.
It's a really cool way to stayconnected with.
(38:58):
Again, no algorithm, no controlover who's seen.
Oh wow, see, I just got.
Ashton Curee (39:02):
I just gave a thumbs up by doing this by the
way, for everybody listening,the app that we use to record
all of this apparently reacts toyou, so he's giving a thumbs up
and the app is reacting.
Oh, and now it's doingfireworks and now glitter is
falling down.
(39:23):
No and for context, as we'retalking about context,
everyone's throwing their armsup in the air because in the
headsets when you do that,confetti like pop blows up
behind you.
Yeah, it's like a littleconfetti cannon.
Oh, there's the fireworks again.
Brian Curee (39:41):
If you do two big thumbs up and a big goofy smile,
you get fireworks.
That's what I've learned today.
I am ruling the fireworks.
Well, I think that you knowfiguring out different tools
that we can use.
You know, I'll put a link in ifpeople want to sign up.
Again, it's free, but, uh, it'sa way to stay connected and
nobody else sees people'sresponses back to me, and I've
(40:02):
already gotten back responses ofpeople that are really
struggling and I'm like, and youcan hear it in their voice.
So I'm like, wow, this isdifferent and it's again.
It's we're losing connectionwith some of these technologies
that were meant to bring ustogether.
I want to read a couple ofthings before we wrap up, just
to kind of again help us be moreaware of younger generations
(40:22):
too.
So this is from the Universityof Pittsburgh, the Brain
Institute.
I think they meant to spell it,brian, but I think they made a
mistake.
It does say Brain Institute,and there's my pager saying hey,
my timer's saying you need towrap this up.
Ashton Curee (40:36):
Your pager?
I know for a fact you don'thave a pager.
Brian Curee (40:39):
Gen Xer here.
See Gen Xer.
Okay, my timer, Olivia shakingher head.
Okay, so here let me read acouple of things here.
I've got two things I want toread, one from the University of
Pittsburgh Brain Institute andthe other one is from the Child
Mind Institute.
So the brain, the University ofPittsburgh Brain Institute, and
the other one is from the ChildMind Institute, so the brain.
The University of Pittsburghsays this using lots of social
(41:00):
media sites raises depressionrisk.
So the National Survey by PittCenter for Research on Media
Technology and Health found thatusing multiple social media
platforms is more stronglyassociated with depression and
anxiety among young people thanthe total amount of time they
spend on the social media.
Now, this is a reallyinteresting article.
(41:21):
I'll share it because they dopoint out that what they wanted
to point out was that theresearch there's 11 platforms
had a 3.1 times the odds ofreporting higher levels of
depression symptoms thancounterparts who use zero to two
(41:43):
platforms.
Now, it may be that people whosuffer from symptoms of
depression or anxiety, or both,tend to use a broader range of
social media outlets.
For example, they may besearching for multiple avenues
of setting, that feelingcomfortable, of acceptance,
which that was something thatwhen we talked in the Metaverse
(42:05):
about the suicide like some ofthe signs is he was pointing
about.
Some signs might be all of asudden.
This person has always beencomplaining.
All of a sudden, one daythey're just super happy and
just like you know, just donelike.
But he's like your might,without knowing it, they might
be at the end of their stringand they're like tonight.
I don't have to deal with this,no more.
(42:25):
They've already made thedecision that I'm exiting this
world.
Ashton Curee (42:29):
He's like but let me just add one thing.
Yes, let me just add one thing.
If yes, let me just add onething.
If anyone wants to researchthat more, that is called a
traumatic response.
Traumatic- response.
So if you're trying to find outwhat your own trauma response
is, that's what you can searchfor it.
Brian Curee (42:44):
Gen Z emotional, what is it?
You said you're more emotionalawareness.
See, if that's not true rightthere, like look at the stuff
that he's pointing out.
But one of the things theytalked about was that being on
multiple platforms that many canlead to depression and anxiety.
But it could be them reachingout, trying to find that
acceptance.
Or also they said, however, italso could be them trying to
(43:08):
maintain that presence on allthese platforms.
And we know it, Olivia.
How many clients and people dowe work with that say we've got
to be on all these platforms?
And we've.
We know it, Olivia.
How many clients and people dowe work with that say we've got
to be on all these platforms?
oh, more often than not yeah nowwith that, any business leaders
that's listening?
I want you to hear this nextstatement, Olivia.
(43:28):
How many of them areoverwhelmed and stressed?
Olivia Yetman (43:32):
100%.
Brian Curee (43:34):
Yes, I mean, we've had people break down crying
because they're like I don'tknow how I'm going to do this,
and we need to be aware of that,especially on this younger
generation.
So I thought that was veryinteresting.
But the Child Mind Institutesays this is using social media
making your kids unhappy.
Evidence is mounting up thatthere is a link between social
(43:56):
media and depression.
In several studies, teenage andyoung adult users who spend the
most time on Instagram,facebook and other platforms
were shown to have asubstantially higher rate of
reported depression than thosewho spent less time.
Actually, from 13% to 66% wewant to put it in a percentage.
It says does this mean thatTikTok and Instagram are
(44:18):
actually causing depression?
They said that's not reallysaying that these are what's
causing those, but it correlates.
It says the correlation seemsmore than coincidental is that
an increase in depressionoccurred with the rise of
smartphone use too.
So it's like we've got toreally like.
There's so many things that comeinto this play of the
(44:41):
depression and anxiety.
And the reason why I wanted topoint those out and I'll put
links to both these articlesbecause I really encourage
everybody to really dig intothem.
There's a lot of information inhere, but the reason why I want
to point out just those littletidbits there to be thinking
about is we have the samesimilar problems and across the
board on digital platforms, notjust social media, but, like
(45:02):
they pointed out, your cellphone.
Use like that right there, likeeven to put your notifications
off or leave your phone inanother room, can really create
anxiety and we have to be awareof saying wait a minute, this
isn't okay, this isn't all rightand it's all right to press
pause and think about it and bemore mindful and say what is
this doing to me?
Reflecting on it, the otherthing to be thinking out the one
(45:27):
I wanted to share this wasbecause of the Metaverse is
something so much more immersive.
There's people right nowconcerned of it going away, like
certain platforms, which couldhappen.
There are at least platforms.
The Metaverse itself isn'tgoing to go away.
It's bigger than a particularplatform and it's going to
continue to evolve.
But we've recognized that evenin there, that there's people
(45:50):
like there was a shift whenpeople's avatars totally changed
, like when we got legs.
That was one big thing, butthen after that, they did a huge
overhaul on the avatars to makethem look a little bit more
realistic and have differentfeatures and people really felt
like their identity was beingtaken away and it's like whoa,
(46:11):
we need to look at this becauseif their avatars are becoming
their identity, that's a concern, that's a con and we need to
talk about that because, justlike in real life, we evolve, we
, our bodies change, and thatcan be very stressful on us
mentally, on our personal life,when our in real life body is
(46:33):
changing.
But that's also happening withour avatars.
That's never been thought ofbefore because that wasn't a
concern, it wasn't somethingthat was there.
But we're seeing that and wehave to be aware of it and then
speak to it and really shed somelight on what we really need to
focus on.
Just like we're talking aboutthe gap and the gain, what are
we really focusing on?
(46:54):
What's really important?
So I want to encourage anybodythat's stepping into any of
these technologies always beaware of the pros, the cons, but
also consider a pro might be acon, maybe not now, but maybe
later you can turn into it, yes.
So with that, I want to thankeverybody for tuning in.
We would love to hear yourthoughts, your comments, make
sure you click the link in theshow notes to send us a text and
(47:18):
don't forget, if you enjoyedthe podcast, leave us a review.
Those reviews help other peoplefind the podcast and with that
we hope you guys have an awesomeday and, I guess, an IRL and
the Metaverse.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you enjoyed this episode,hit, subscribe and leave us a
review.
Well, hey, welcome back to the Mindful Bytes
podcast.
I'm excited about ourdiscussion today.
Today, we're going to talkabout the Metaverse it's a
Metaverse check-in but we'realso going to talk about
concerns, concerns, not onlywith the Metaverse, but also
with digital platforms acrossthe board.
Let's go ahead and introducethe crew.
So we have today.
(00:21):
We have Olivia.
Olivia, introduce yourself.
You are the social media queen,or something like that, aren't
you?
I can't remember.
Olivia Yetman (00:30):
Millennial.
Brian Curee (00:31):
Millennial.
Okay yeah.
Olivia Yetman (00:33):
Yeah, I'm Olivia, the social media obsessed
millennial.
Brian Curee (00:39):
Obsessed.
I love that Obsessed.
Ashton Curee (00:41):
Yeah, I'm Ashton.
You're a Gen Z gadget fanatic.
Brian Curee (00:46):
Fanatic, and I am Brian, your Gen X business
leader, that's taking adifferent look of how to use
these digital platforms.
Today, guys, each one of ushere that's in this podcast
episode has been in theMetaverse.
We've been in there for oh mygosh, over three years, so
(01:06):
there's a lot of stuff we'velearned and I thought, hey, this
is a good time to talk and havea check-in, a Metaverse
check-in and if you're alreadytuning out sorry, you're going
to miss some good conversations,but if you're still in there,
hang in there, because there aresome concerns that I think it's
important for us to look at anddiscuss.
But it's not just Metaverseconcerns.
One of the things that I'vebeen learning recently is you
(01:27):
know, we talk a lot about thegood and the bad of different
digital technologies strategies,the way we use them, but I've
realized that a lot of thesepros can be a double-edged sword
.
Double-edged sword, I guessthat's the way you say it
correctly, because a pro canalso be a con.
Is that confusing when I saythat?
(01:49):
No, but a pro can be a con, andthat's something that I want to
talk about.
So you know, just like withMindful Bites, the whole podcast
here is about being moremindful and understanding how
these technologies and platformscan have those good and bad
effects in our life.
So if we want to hear yourguys' thoughts too, so if you're
tuned in, make sure you checkthis right down there in our
(02:11):
show notes.
There's a way that you can textus.
Just click that link and youcan text us your thoughts,
questions and you might hear ustalking about it on the next
episode.
So all right with that.
I'm excited to talk about theMetaverse.
We've been in there for threeyears.
As I said earlier, if you'venever been in the Metaverse,
it's basically the easiest wayto explain it is.
It's like an immersiveexperience.
(02:32):
You imagine, putting on aheadset, you step into a virtual
world or mixed reality wherethings are coming.
These virtual objects and itemsare coming into your real life
space and you can interact withthem.
So very immersive and theconnectivity.
Olivia, when we first steppedin the Metaverse, do you
remember that, that moment, likethree years ago?
(02:54):
What was it like?
What was your initial thoughts?
Olivia Yetman (02:58):
Yeah.
So yeah, even though it's threeyears ago, I can still remember
it so vividly because it was sodifferent.
But it just was.
It felt like connection, likenever before, Right, Like we
weren't you and I weren't in thesame room.
We had met some people, but itfelt like we were in the exact
(03:22):
same room actually, as we wouldbe like face to face in real
life.
Brian Curee (03:28):
So yeah, and and Ashton.
How about you, Ashton?
How long have you been in theMetaverse now?
Ashton Curee (03:35):
I think it's been about two and a half years.
Brian Curee (03:37):
I came in just after you, like a few months
after you yep, and I think thatI think that is what was the
thing that stood out the most toyou, because I mean, you're a
gadget guy, you're into thesedigital technologies of what,
and I know you've grown youhaven't grown up in social media
, though you've been in the eraof social media.
(03:57):
A lot of people, these Gen Zs.
That's the world they live in.
Now I know for you, Ashton, youdidn't get into social media
and stuff until you were 18because we knew as parents,
understanding the dangers of howthat can have on your mental
health and stuff, and especiallyas a child, the way you think
(04:19):
we wanted to make sure weprotected you from that until
you got to an older age and youunderstood the dangers and the
benefits as well of steppinginto those.
So when you, what was yourfirst experience?
Like in the Metaverse, when youput on that virtual reality
headset?
Ashton Curee (04:37):
immediately.
I thought it was superinteresting because of how you
can create worlds in there.
You can make your own entireenvironment for nothing and from
nothing.
I've always enjoyed buildingthings, but normally if you're
working with wood you've got togo buy wood, and wood is not
(05:00):
cheap.
And so all of a sudden you havethis headset you can put on,
and once you have the headset,there's nothing else you're
buying.
You're not buying storage,you're not buying anything else
for it.
You can build whatever you want, and then people come out and
check whatever you built.
If you build a social space,people are going to go there and
(05:22):
hang out.
If you build a game, people aregoing to go and play the game.
So that was immediately.
What was super interesting tome was the community that had
been built in there and thepossibilities of what you could
build in there.
Brian Curee (05:36):
Yeah, I think that the community I think has been a
huge, as we continued for, youknow, for three years now, has
continued to kind of blow meaway, like the connections that
we're making in there, just asyou shared, Olivia, when we
first stepped in there.
The presence, that immersivepresence, really felt like the
people were in the same roomwith you.
You know you can give eachother a high five.
(05:56):
Back then, Olivia, if youremember, we didn't have legs.
Yeah, now we got legs and we'reall running around like look at
my legs, but it's really grown.
That technology has actuallygrown pretty quickly over the
last three years.
We've seen it really evolve.
Now, with that, the platformthat we use is MetaHorizon.
That's the platform that we use, but that's not the only
(06:19):
Metaverse app out there.
There's several differentplatforms.
So for those of you tuning in,you're like, well, I don't
understand, is the Metaversemeta?
It's not.
So let's go ahead and clearthat up.
Metaverse is not meta.
He's just very smart when itcomes to his branding and what
he did, why he changed that name.
Very smart, Zuckerberg.
Very smart.
But it's not just meta.
(06:39):
Think of the Metaverse as likethe internet.
That's the best way I've beenable to explain it.
Think of it as the internet.
No single individual owns it,but we can all build websites
and our businesses and we haveour websites on there where we
can connect with people from allaround the world.
It's the same thing with theMetaverse.
The Metaverse isn't owned byanybody.
It's a space that you can goand build.
You can build virtual worlds.
(07:00):
You can create your own appsthat people can connect with and
you own that app, unless you'reusing a leased property like
Verizon Worlds, which is more ofa social app, but think of
those apps and your virtualworlds as, like the new websites
(07:20):
, you're stepping into it.
You can actually meet customers, leads right in these virtual
immersive experiences.
So a lot of cool things.
We've written articles aboutabout it so you can go check
them out.
I'll make sure I'll put somelinks in the show notes if you
want to check that out.
But what I want to talk abouttoday is the pros and cons.
Uh, one of the things Oliviaand I know Ashton, we just
(07:41):
talked about this at a.
We host a in the Metaverse, atthe Killer Bee Studios, which is
our virtual world.
We host once a month we host ameetup called Mission XR Meetup,
and what that is about isthat's with a company that we
help write and do research on XRtechnologies, which is XR is
basically an umbrella foreverything like mixed reality,
(08:05):
virtual reality, augmentedreality XR stands for extended
reality, so it's just anumbrella where everything falls
underneath that, because there'snew ones coming out all the
time.
So we have this meetup once amonth to kind of discuss our
experiences, learn from that,help each other, share what
we're doing in hopes to use thistechnology for missions to help
(08:26):
people in their life.
So with that, with our lastmeetup, we had an incident, I
guess, that we wanted to talkabout and I think it's important
for us to talk about today,because, just as these
technologies have pros and thisis where I think the pros and
cons like sometimes your pro canbe a con as well we know how
(08:49):
the pro of XR technology, theseimmersive experiences, are
creating an atmosphere that wecan connect in a way that has
never been possible with digitalbefore.
As you said, Olivia, you reallyfeel like you're there, like
you really feel like you'rehanging out with people, which
is creating a different type ofconnection.
(09:09):
Think about, like, even withsocial media, social media
creates a connection, but, asyou know, Olivia, how would you
compare the connection versus onXR or VR, versus social social
media?
How would you compare thedifference?
Olivia Yetman (09:28):
so with um, like the Metaverse, right, I think it
is way more comparative to reallife, where, um, right away you
can start talking to someoneand develop a connection.
Where with social media ittakes a little bit to, number
one, capture someone's attentionwith the algorithm, right, and
(09:52):
then some people aren't eventaking it to the next step,
which is, you know, askingquestions, getting to know the
people, so they're not evenactually connecting, they're
just projecting a message.
So that's where I feel likeit's different with the
Metaverse, because it's like areyou just going in the Metaverse
(10:14):
?
And if Brian, for example,comes up to me and he was like
hey, Olivia, a majority of thepeople aren't just going to
stand there and say nothing,right, you're actually going to
have conversations where onsocial media, a business could
post something and say nothingto you.
So, yeah, so.
Brian Curee (10:34):
Yeah, and it's pretty cool too, cause, like I
was just thinking when you weresaying that, you know, I don't
know, do you ever go like, doyou ever have like meetups as
much on social media Like, hey,hey, we're gonna go meet up?
Like do you connect with yourfriends and say we're gonna meet
up?
That happens on in theMetaverse every day, uh, and,
but it's because of thattechnology.
(10:55):
So what I wanted to share, youknow, the last meet meeting we
just had in there was talkingabout an unfortunate situation
where, um, someone had someone'solder sibling committed suicide
and we had connected to thiswith this person in there.
So we had a whole topicdiscussion about that, that
(11:17):
whole situation where someonehas committed suicide and
understand that these are realpeople behind these avatars and
what are some signs we shouldlook for and understand.
So, because we have thisconnection, this opportunity,
that people are very vulnerableand open up, so we want to not
take things for granted but lookat these as the opportunities
they are and help people thatmight be facing that.
(11:40):
So that got us talking aboutpros and cons.
So, knowing that one of the prosof this technology is the
connection People are makinglegit friendships and they're
meeting people from around theworld.
Some of them are actuallymeeting in person.
Again, if there's any kidslistening to this, if you're on
those platforms, do not meetwith anybody from the Metaverse
(12:02):
in person.
That is dangerous, butdangerous.
But some of the adults we knowthat's been going to virtual
churches.
They've built a whole community.
They have connected at publicevents like the Ark Encounter
and stuff like that from peoplearound the world.
We've met a couple that was thepastor of the church actually
here where we live in CentralFlorida, but we've spent years
(12:25):
connecting with them and again,we're adults so we can kind of
kind of make that judgment.
But with that, with that pro ofthe connection that it brings,
another thing that we have tolook at is, uh, I was talking to
somebody Olivia and Ashtonafter that meeting and they said
when I think of the Metaverseshe was sharing, that she's been
(12:47):
speaking, I guess, to a classor something like that that she
works with about the Metaverseand she's like I'm talking about
the pros and cons but I reallycan't find many cons which I get
it.
It's hard to do that unless youreally look at how a pro might
be a con.
So connection like we've neverexpected it or experienced in
digital can also be a conbecause, again, this is a lease
(13:09):
property that we're on.
So if that is taken away, thatpro of man I've like really
creating meaningful connections.
I'm connecting with people fromaround the world.
I feel like we're really closefriends and then all of a sudden
somebody cuts that off that youdon't have control over.
That causes a withdrawal thatnobody has really had to ever
(13:31):
think about as deeply, becausenone of the platforms that we
have really connect that deeply.
It's like losing a loved one.
I don't know if, Olivia, didyou ever hear about Allspace?
Did?
Olivia Yetman (13:46):
you hear about Altspace?
Yeah, I heard of it yeah, andactually we were talking a lot
about it when we were first inthe Metaverse.
Brian Curee (13:53):
Yes, so did you.
So Altspace was bought byMicrosoft and as soon as
Microsoft bought it, they closedit down.
They shut it down.
Yeah, I don't know the reasonswhy, but nobody thought of how
it was going to affect thosepeople that had built these
communities.
You know, you had churches, youhad huge communities that had
(14:13):
been built, people had thesefriends and all of a sudden they
just lost connection fromeverybody overnight.
And I know I have a friend inthere that is a certified life
behavioral coach and he said hewas doing therapy sessions for
over two years with people.
And there's still people thatstill feel this depression of
losing connections with thesepeople that they met with in
(14:36):
Metaverse.
So it's like, even though thatconnection is a pro, it's also a
con, and I think it's somethingthat I wanted to talk about,
because I think it's important,with any digital technology that
we're using, that we really sitdown and reflect on the pros
and the cons, the good and thebad, and always be kind of in a
(14:59):
mindset of that pro might be acon, that good might be a bad.
How can it transition it?
How is it going to affectpeople?
So, for instance, I'm going tobring in this conversation.
I want to open it up for us totalk about.
But even look at the socialdilemma Like you guys have you
both you watched the documentarythe social dilemma on Netflix.
So we know about social media,like there's pros and cons of
(15:22):
that.
So I would love to just kind ofstop there for a second, see if
you guys have anything you guyswant to share and talk about
with this, this pro and con kindof mentality, before we go
further um, I mean, you knowthere, sometimes, when you are
(15:44):
starting something new which Iwould still consider, um, you
know the Metaverse like reallynew, even though you know it's
been around for a while.
Olivia Yetman (15:54):
Um, sometimes you know, like, when you get into
something like that, you havewhat they call like the
honeymoon phase, or like you'rewearing like rose colored
glasses, where you just seeeverything because it's so new
and exciting and all of thosethings.
It's just like everything isamazing and blah, blah, blah.
(16:17):
Well, then you can think aboutit as like a marriage, right
After you've been with someonefor a while, things I mean not
to say they're not good, but youknow, you might have some more
like arguments or there might belike things that kind of start
annoying you or whatever it maybe.
(16:38):
So I think that sometimespeople get stuck though in the
honeymoon phase and they can'tmove past it.
So it's like this is amazingand then things go, they're not
as amazing or something shifts,but all they're trying to do is
to get back to that honeymoonphase, if that makes sense so
(17:03):
they're basically like yeah, sothat's kind of my thoughts on it
.
It's like so exciting,everything's just like I'm
connecting with all of thesepeople, um, and it's kind of
hard to see the negatives, andthere are a lot of positives.
But and also, you know, toomuch of a good thing isn't
(17:27):
always a good thing.
Brian Curee (17:28):
That is a good point.
Yeah that's a very good point.
Ashton Curee (17:32):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because we've never
seen a social I guess you couldsay platform, social, I guess
you could say platform.
We've never seen anythingsocial like this, as powerful as
what this is where it'sactually able to.
It basically tricks the humanbrain into thinking that you're
looking at a real person's faceand we've really noticed that
(17:56):
we're like, even when you'rejust having conversations,
especially if you have a metapro where it has facial tracking
, it feels like you're talkingstraight to a person and so it
almost can emulate a socialexperience where you don't have
to go out into the real worldand actually talk to people.
(18:18):
You can just talk to people inthis headset, the real world,
and actually talk to people.
You can just talk to people inthis headset.
And I think I don't think thedanger is even just in the
Metaverse, but as more and morenew social platforms develop
where we're getting closer andcloser to that, uh, to emulating
that.
I think it's just like ageneral danger now of it wasn't
(18:40):
ever meant to replace what it'sdoing, but it's reaching a point
to where, if people are onthere enough and they're
sacrificing time to go spendtime with their family, that it
actually could be a real danger.
Like you were saying, it's sogood, it's such a pro that it
becomes a con.
Brian Curee (19:01):
I think that that's a really good point and from
what both of you were sharingthere, you know, it kind of
makes a touch on a couple ofthings.
That came to my mind as we'reprocessing and discussing this
was, you know, Olivia, as youwere talking about you know,
kind of being that honeymoonstage and there comes a time,
like after you've been there fora while, that kind of starts
(19:23):
dying off and you start seeingthe bad things and, you know,
not everything's great and thosethings are going to grow on any
platforms that we're on newplatforms that we're testing out
.
One of the things that Iremember when we first got in
there, I was like thepossibilities are limitless,
like there's you know's so many,there's no limit.
But then I had to correctmyself because I'm like no, wait
(19:46):
a minute, there are limits.
We're just now learning whatthose limits are.
Olivia Yetman (19:50):
And it's the same thing here.
Brian Curee (19:51):
We're still learning, even with social media
.
Like Ashton, you said it wasn'tcreated.
It was created to bring thisconnection, but there's also
cons of that Same thing withsocial media.
Social media was created, uh, Iguess let me rephrase that.
You said this technology wasn'tcreated to replace real life,
(20:12):
but it can start creating ablurred vision of what is real
life and what's virtual life ormixed reality, whatever is that
Metaverse with real life?
You know some people don't likeit when you use IRL because IRL
Olivia do you know whatOlivia's going to know?
Because she's a millennial.
Ashton Curee (20:29):
In real life I was going to say don't even ask.
Brian Curee (20:32):
Yes, see, in real life, some people in the
Metaverse don't like it when youuse that, when you say well in
IRL and they're like this isreal okay yeah, it's, you know
there's.
There's already a line therethat's starting to get blurred
like it's really not real life.
You don't really know thepeople like you.
(20:52):
You know them at a differentlevel than social media, yeah,
but you don't know them ifyou're hanging out and having
dinner with each other and youknow and known each other for
years, and Ashton before youbefore you, uh, share your
thought.
It kind of made me think aboutthe same thing of social media.
Social media when it was firstcreated, the even technology
across the board, cell phones,everything.
(21:13):
It was created to bring uscloser together, but you know,
look at, over the years, it'sactually pulled us apart.
I don't know, Olivia, would youagree with that?
Would you think that there is?
Olivia Yetman (21:25):
Yeah, 100%, and I'll let Ashton share, but I
also have some more to add.
Go ahead, Ashton.
Ashton Curee (21:33):
I was just going to say it's actually really
interesting.
This is a similarcharacteristic across all social
platforms of you're only seeingthe highlights.
Yeah, and that is such adangerous thing, because I think
that's why some people can getaddicted to social is because
it's all about the highlights.
There's hardly ever any bad onthere and I like, a few years
(21:59):
back, streaming like on Twitchand Kik went viral.
So many people were doing itand even now it's still very
popular.
But, especially just a fewyears ago, it was huge and I
think that's the next closestthing because it felt more raw.
But I mean, really, it stillhighlights, it just feels it
(22:20):
gives the illusion.
Yeah, it gives the, theillusion like, yeah, it gives
the illusion.
Exactly, it gives the illusionof being more transparent and
raw.
And the headsets are just likeone more step past live
streaming.
Brian Curee (22:36):
Yeah, because you're able to see past a 2d
screen or at least what it feelslike you can reach out and grab
things that's messes with youcan really change the whole
approach.
So yeah, that's a really goodpoint.
Olivia Yetman (22:47):
Asher, very good point yeah, um, I was gonna say
too in regards to like theMetaverse and even social
(23:09):
platforms, like the thing aboutit as well is you get to pick
and choose, too right.
You can just like decide tolike take a break or move, you
know, just like, oh, I'm notgonna be on Instagram anymore,
or whatever it may be, but thatdoesn't necessarily translate to
(23:31):
real life, so you're kind oflike losing those skills as well
where it's like no, in reallife you have to talk through
things with people.
Like you can't just shut downbecause that that, when you shut
down like that, that depression, right, you can't get out of
bed, you can't function, likethings like that, so it doesn't.
(23:53):
It also kind of numbs ourskills to be able to do those
things in real life because youcan create.
You know, like Ashton's talkingabout all the highlights.
Well, you can do that foryourself too, right, you can
just present your good side andthen if someone has a criticism
and whatever I'm not talking to,I'm going to block that.
(24:16):
Like it's so easy to blocksomeone that doesn't fit your
narrative of conflict resolutionin the workplace.
Ashton Curee (24:48):
It's a huge thing right now.
Yeah, and it's because ofmultiple reasons, because we're
considered the most emotionallyaware generation, which I have
no clue.
If that's true, I haven't founda study to back that.
That is something a lot ofpeople say, and because of our
communication style is verydifferent because of the same
(25:09):
thing, and I wonder.
I do really wonder if socialhas played so much of a role in
that.
Just like you were saying, it'sso easy just to remove yourself
from a situation and just to bemad and just to walk away
instead of actually trying toresolve that.
And I think, especially as mygeneration is reaching this
(25:32):
point of becoming parents, Ithink we're going to see a lot
more of that.
And even if you look at thedating world now, it's the same
exact thing People break upbecause of the tiniest little
things.
And it's that same exact thingof we can't like so much of my
generation can't resolveconflict.
There's exceptions, but if youlook at the whole, the average,
(25:57):
it does seem that way.
Brian Curee (25:59):
it does seem that way, yeah, and I think that has
a lot to do with what you know.
The generations are growing upwithin, you know.
So growing up in theseplatforms, where there really
wasn't that, you didn't, youdidn't have the like.
I guess the normal routinewasn't to go outside and play in
the woods and stuff like that.
It was.
They're on phones.
You know you're on phones andyou're in those environments, so
(26:21):
you're not really we've talkedabout this before A lot of these
younger generations don'treally know what a meaningful
connection is.
Those connections are alldigital, so so I think that
plays a role into it a littlebit as well.
You know, I think that, aseverything that we're talking
about here, I think it's alwaysimportant to remember that even
on these platforms, their agendais different.
(26:43):
That's what I liked about theSocial Dilemma it really focuses
on.
It talks about.
It's a documentary.
If you haven't seen it, gocheck it out on Netflix, but it
talks about how social mediaalgorithms are designed to
create an addiction and adependency.
I mean, I don't know, Oliviayou just talked about.
You know you can.
A lot of people can choose.
I'm not going to be onInstagram anymore.
You know I'm going through thisprocess.
(27:04):
Right now I'm trying to figureout like, where do I want to
really be present on my personal, social and business?
And there's a lot of shiftsthat's changing.
Because, Olivia, if you thoughtabout taking a break from
TikTok or if you said I'm goingto turn TikTok off for a week,
would that create any kind ofanxiety in you, do you think?
Olivia Yetman (27:28):
Yeah, I mean, we saw it when TikTok went away for
a day, I was like, oh my God,it was just a natural thing.
I wouldn't even think about it.
And I'm like I'm going on myphone clicking on TikTok I'm not
even thinking about it, right,like I was like this is, this is
bad.
I mean, that's the thing, likeI can recognize it's bad.
(27:50):
But, like you know, I'mthinking about even younger than
Ashton, where they don't reallyknow life before that.
And so, yeah, it is, it's scary.
But yeah, I, I had like, uh,when I watched the social
dilemma, there was a crisis thatI had of, like I, I'm trying to
(28:12):
get more businesses and peopleon it and I'm like, wow, I felt
very weird about that.
Brian Curee (28:20):
I get it.
It's like you know once youbecome aware, then you have to
also you become aware of thecons, right?
So we know that, like theseplatforms social media, even you
know, you know, when it comesto these Metaverse stuff, all
these different technologies westart becoming aware of the cons
(28:40):
.
So I don't want to ignore thecons.
We need to consider that evenin how we use them.
We need to be more mindful ofthat, not just for ourselves,
but for the people that we'rehelping to coach the people that
we're helping them to how touse it to connect with their
audience.
I'm sure it has changed some ofyour coaching approaches,
(29:02):
Olivia, with people in the radioindustry that we do coaching
with, because now you have aresponsibility, we are aware.
So what do we do with that?
And I think that's one of theshifts that you've seen what
we've started doing on ourwebsite on KB Digital.
If you check out kbdigitalcom,you're going to find blogs there
, but we're looking at the prosand the cons On a lot of stuff.
(29:25):
You're going to find differentcomparisons of what's the good,
what's the bad, so that way youcan come up with your own
conclusion, your own decisionand take ownership of what you
decide to do, but you've becomemore aware, and I feel like
that's more important now.
That's an important piece ofstrategy is understanding the
pros and cons, and there's goingto be other pros and cons
(29:45):
that's going to surface if youdecide to step down any of these
paths, using any of thesetechnologies or platforms.
But you need to continue tokeep a list of that and always
reflect back and say, hey, okay,let's press pause.
We're aware of this.
Here's some new pros, here'ssome new cons.
Now that we're aware, let'spress pause.
We're aware of this.
Here's some new pros, here'ssome new cons.
Now that we're aware, let'stalk about it and reflect on it
(30:05):
and say, hey, do we need to hita reset or we need to do a
reboot?
What do we need to do here withour plans moving forward?
Because, just like this is oneof the things that's been having
me think lately, Olivia andAshton, even about our business,
killer Bee Digital, is we workwith clients trying to help give
them strategies on how toconnect to people on these
platforms, but then also one ofthe biggest complaints I've
(30:30):
heard over the last probablydecade now is we are losing
connection with our audience.
All the algorithms.
We're sick of the algorithmsand I'm like there's other
options out there.
If all these things changing somuch, weren't we putting
together a strategy and helpingbusinesses and organizations
transition to a new shift, a newmindset of social community
(30:53):
where you actually own it andyou control it?
You don't have to have analgorithm anymore.
You're no more algorithm.
You have direct connection tothem, even if those platforms go
away.
So those are some of the thingswe're stepping into this year
because I see like it'simportant and, with the shift
and changes in digital, whywouldn't we change our approach?
(31:14):
So I think it's time to startchanging that, and one of the
things is we're talking aboutthe mindset and how the control
this has.
I found something I thought youmight find interesting Olivia
and Ashton both about now.
This is particular about socialmedia.
Now, I'm saying social mediabecause we all can relate, just
(31:36):
like Olivia right now.
I stopped using Instagram.
I was like I'm not going to useInstagram for my personal, I'm
going to use Facebook.
Well, then I started realizingthat I got a lot of junk coming
in on my Facebook stuff, stuffthat I just don't want to see.
I didn't have that on Instagram, and then I realized a lot more
people see my stories onInstagram.
They're not seeing my storieson Facebook.
(31:57):
So I'm like okay, maybe I'lluse Instagram and I'll not use
Facebook.
So it's like this, like rollercoaster, like this I mean,
Ashton, I don't know, you're noton, are you on?
Ashton Curee (32:09):
any social platforms, so I was for a little
while.
I'm not on them as much rightnow, and that is specifically
because I blame Google for this.
That is specifically because ofshorts.
Brian Curee (32:21):
That sounds really personal, I blame.
Olivia Yetman (32:22):
Google for this.
Are you letting them decidewhat you wear?
Ashton Curee (32:26):
Ashton, wow, I was not happy because I would go on
there to look for something andthe app immediately opens to
Shorts.
It's so easy to get pulled awayand to doom scroll and the
other thing is is they arelistening.
So, because I same exact issueI had on Facebook, I would talk
(32:51):
about something once and thenwalk away and not think about it
anymore and all of a sudden,that's all my feed is and I'm
like I don't want that.
I specifically curated my feedbecause it's what I want to see.
It's beneficial to me, it makesme productive, and then it's
automatically trying to changethat and this is going to be
(33:12):
hilarious.
But that's why I like Reddit.
Reddit's the only thing I'm onnow and that's exactly why.
Because I can curate my exactfeed.
And there was another app wewere just looking at a few
months ago Blue Sky.
Yeah, blue Sky.
Is that what it was?
I liked it for that, but itwasn't productive enough for me.
(33:33):
Reddit has such a communitybuilt for everything, whether
it's me working on guitars or meworking on terrariums, or me
working on whatever, evendigital stuff.
There's such a communityalready built there and it's so
much easier for me to use thatversus something like YouTube
(33:56):
where it's automatically tryingto change your feed and I can't
do that.
Brian Curee (34:01):
I love that we have a Gen Z on here that's talking
about I don't use it becauseit's not productive for me.
I love hearing that because,really, to be honest, that's a
thing that I think people needto become more aware of, like
are these digital tools that I'musing?
Are they productive for me, formy business, for me personally?
(34:22):
Those are important things tolook at and acknowledging.
You're talking about right nowthe frustrations of losing
control, not having control.
This is not what you wanted tosee, but you're out of control.
You don't have that control.
So there's things that we'relooking at putting in place that
we can utilize to do that, toreclaim that control, to reclaim
(34:42):
that connection, that ownershipWith the people.
I think the whole mindset ofyou know.
We've been reading this book,Ashton.
You and me listened to it alittle bit, but it's called the
Gap and the Gain and it'stalking about living.
Are you living in the gap orare you living in the gain?
And it's talking about living.
Are you living in the gap orare you living in the gain?
(35:03):
And it's talking about findingtrue happiness, like you can be.
Uh, if people, if you're livingin the gap, people aren't happy
and kind of give you a reallyquick explanation of what I mean
in gap and gain is you know,Olivia, you know like we set
goals, like we have this ideathis is where we want to be
right in the business.
This is our ideal, this iswhere we want to go.
Idea this is where we want tobe right in the business.
This is our ideal, this iswhere we want to go.
We have goals set.
(35:23):
So we have a goal set righthere and what's happening is
we're aiming to hit that goaland sometimes you hit it,
sometimes you don't.
If you don't hit it, you couldsit there and say we wanted to
have 30 subscribers.
We only got 22.
Like, why didn't we get 30?
What did we do wrong?
Okay, we're living in the gap.
Right now, we're living in asection of saying we did not
obtain our goal.
Or you could actually hit yourgoal and still be in the gap
(35:45):
because you're like, yeah, butwe're not here yet and you're
not happy of where you've been,where you've come from.
That's the gain.
So he's talking about living inthe gain, saying, okay, we
wanted to hit 30, but we hit 22.
Well, you could be living inthe gap and be beating yourself
up or your team about we didn'thit 30.
Why?
Or you could say, hey, wedidn't hit our goal, but look at
(36:07):
the gain, look how far we'vecome, and then you adjust and
you keep moving forward.
So it's a very interesting book.
You should definitely check itout.
But it's the same thing withsocial media.
Social media is really good attrying to keep us in that gap.
Right, you're comparingyourself to others where you
want to be Always striving formore.
Yes, or striving for more, andit's like we've got to get
(36:30):
ourselves out of those gaps.
So I think becoming aware, likewhat you're talking about there
, Ashton, is a key part.
Anybody that's interested, andI do know.
I don't know if you considerthis a social app and Olivia,
maybe you can answer this Ithink it's more of a messaging
app.
I guess it would fall into.
But, marco Polo, it's not new.
It's been around for a longtime now.
(36:50):
Is that social or more of likea messaging, would you say?
Olivia Yetman (36:53):
I would say more of like a messaging, just like
video texting basically.
Brian Curee (36:58):
Yeah, so we I know you're on that, Ashton, and I
see you using that all the timewhat?
Yeah, I've been using it a tonnow.
Why Like?
Why?
What do you like about it?
Ashton Curee (37:08):
I honestly don't know.
It's like it's just a littlebit better of a connection.
I feel like I guess that'sactually exactly the reason is
texting is fine and all and Ihate, I hate calling.
That's like the most Gen Zthing about me.
I hate phone calling.
I don't like that.
(37:30):
But I think it's both.
It's easier to talk to a face.
We've known that for years,even just in videography, where
it's like you know, you tape thelittle face on your camera to
make it easier to talk to thecamera.
Same exact concept.
And now you're talking to avideo and I think it's just
(37:51):
better because you can hear thetones, you can get the context
almost.
You know so much of talking iscontext where there could be
quotations on something and itcompletely changes the meaning
of a sentence.
I don't know if you've evertaken a sentence and you go
through each word and you addquotations to each word
(38:12):
independently and see how itaffects the sentence.
It's the same exact thing oflike understanding the context
through tone and through.
What does this word actuallymean and what is the definitions
of this word?
Because you can sometimes seelike someone being hesitant to
say a certain word and then allof a sudden, you know the
(38:33):
definition is not there.
The definitions can bedifferent in between two
different people makes totalsense.
Brian Curee (38:37):
I think that, yeah, I think that, for you know,
it's something that we're usingnow, and we're using it.
We've created something calledthe buzz line, which we're
sharing things just like this,like, well, some of the things
that we talk about in mindfulbites.
I'll just put out a littlethought and it goes to everybody
that's connected with it andthey can video message me back
and nobody else sees it.
It's a really cool way to stayconnected with.
(38:58):
Again, no algorithm, no controlover who's seen.
Oh wow, see, I just got.
Ashton Curee (39:02):
I just gave a thumbs up by doing this by the
way, for everybody listening,the app that we use to record
all of this apparently reacts toyou, so he's giving a thumbs up
and the app is reacting.
Oh, and now it's doingfireworks and now glitter is
falling down.
(39:23):
No and for context, as we'retalking about context,
everyone's throwing their armsup in the air because in the
headsets when you do that,confetti like pop blows up
behind you.
Yeah, it's like a littleconfetti cannon.
Oh, there's the fireworks again.
Brian Curee (39:41):
If you do two big thumbs up and a big goofy smile,
you get fireworks.
That's what I've learned today.
I am ruling the fireworks.
Well, I think that you knowfiguring out different tools
that we can use.
You know, I'll put a link in ifpeople want to sign up.
Again, it's free, but, uh, it'sa way to stay connected and
nobody else sees people'sresponses back to me, and I've
(40:02):
already gotten back responses ofpeople that are really
struggling and I'm like, and youcan hear it in their voice.
So I'm like, wow, this isdifferent and it's again.
It's we're losing connectionwith some of these technologies
that were meant to bring ustogether.
I want to read a couple ofthings before we wrap up, just
to kind of again help us be moreaware of younger generations
(40:22):
too.
So this is from the Universityof Pittsburgh, the Brain
Institute.
I think they meant to spell it,brian, but I think they made a
mistake.
It does say Brain Institute,and there's my pager saying hey,
my timer's saying you need towrap this up.
Ashton Curee (40:36):
Your pager?
I know for a fact you don'thave a pager.
Brian Curee (40:39):
Gen Xer here.
See Gen Xer.
Okay, my timer, Olivia shakingher head.
Okay, so here let me read acouple of things here.
I've got two things I want toread, one from the University of
Pittsburgh Brain Institute andthe other one is from the Child
Mind Institute.
So the brain, the University ofPittsburgh Brain Institute, and
the other one is from the ChildMind Institute, so the brain.
The University of Pittsburghsays this using lots of social
(41:00):
media sites raises depressionrisk.
So the National Survey by PittCenter for Research on Media
Technology and Health found thatusing multiple social media
platforms is more stronglyassociated with depression and
anxiety among young people thanthe total amount of time they
spend on the social media.
Now, this is a reallyinteresting article.
(41:21):
I'll share it because they dopoint out that what they wanted
to point out was that theresearch there's 11 platforms
had a 3.1 times the odds ofreporting higher levels of
depression symptoms thancounterparts who use zero to two
(41:43):
platforms.
Now, it may be that people whosuffer from symptoms of
depression or anxiety, or both,tend to use a broader range of
social media outlets.
For example, they may besearching for multiple avenues
of setting, that feelingcomfortable, of acceptance,
which that was something thatwhen we talked in the Metaverse
(42:05):
about the suicide like some ofthe signs is he was pointing
about.
Some signs might be all of asudden.
This person has always beencomplaining.
All of a sudden, one daythey're just super happy and
just like you know, just donelike.
But he's like your might,without knowing it, they might
be at the end of their stringand they're like tonight.
I don't have to deal with this,no more.
(42:25):
They've already made thedecision that I'm exiting this
world.
Ashton Curee (42:29):
He's like but let me just add one thing.
Yes, let me just add one thing.
If yes, let me just add onething.
If anyone wants to researchthat more, that is called a
traumatic response.
Traumatic- response.
So if you're trying to find outwhat your own trauma response
is, that's what you can searchfor it.
Brian Curee (42:44):
Gen Z emotional, what is it?
You said you're more emotionalawareness.
See, if that's not true rightthere, like look at the stuff
that he's pointing out.
But one of the things theytalked about was that being on
multiple platforms that many canlead to depression and anxiety.
But it could be them reachingout, trying to find that
acceptance.
Or also they said, however, italso could be them trying to
(43:08):
maintain that presence on allthese platforms.
And we know it, Olivia.
How many clients and people dowe work with that say we've got
to be on all these platforms?
And we've.
We know it, Olivia.
How many clients and people dowe work with that say we've got
to be on all these platforms?
oh, more often than not yeah nowwith that, any business leaders
that's listening?
I want you to hear this nextstatement, Olivia.
(43:28):
How many of them areoverwhelmed and stressed?
Olivia Yetman (43:32):
100%.
Brian Curee (43:34):
Yes, I mean, we've had people break down crying
because they're like I don'tknow how I'm going to do this,
and we need to be aware of that,especially on this younger
generation.
So I thought that was veryinteresting.
But the Child Mind Institutesays this is using social media
making your kids unhappy.
Evidence is mounting up thatthere is a link between social
(43:56):
media and depression.
In several studies, teenage andyoung adult users who spend the
most time on Instagram,facebook and other platforms
were shown to have asubstantially higher rate of
reported depression than thosewho spent less time.
Actually, from 13% to 66% wewant to put it in a percentage.
It says does this mean thatTikTok and Instagram are
(44:18):
actually causing depression?
They said that's not reallysaying that these are what's
causing those, but it correlates.
It says the correlation seemsmore than coincidental is that
an increase in depressionoccurred with the rise of
smartphone use too.
So it's like we've got toreally like.
There's so many things that comeinto this play of the
(44:41):
depression and anxiety.
And the reason why I wanted topoint those out and I'll put
links to both these articlesbecause I really encourage
everybody to really dig intothem.
There's a lot of information inhere, but the reason why I want
to point out just those littletidbits there to be thinking
about is we have the samesimilar problems and across the
board on digital platforms, notjust social media, but, like
(45:02):
they pointed out, your cellphone.
Use like that right there, likeeven to put your notifications
off or leave your phone inanother room, can really create
anxiety and we have to be awareof saying wait a minute, this
isn't okay, this isn't all rightand it's all right to press
pause and think about it and bemore mindful and say what is
this doing to me?
Reflecting on it, the otherthing to be thinking out the one
(45:27):
I wanted to share this wasbecause of the Metaverse is
something so much more immersive.
There's people right nowconcerned of it going away, like
certain platforms, which couldhappen.
There are at least platforms.
The Metaverse itself isn'tgoing to go away.
It's bigger than a particularplatform and it's going to
continue to evolve.
But we've recognized that evenin there, that there's people
(45:50):
like there was a shift whenpeople's avatars totally changed
, like when we got legs.
That was one big thing, butthen after that, they did a huge
overhaul on the avatars to makethem look a little bit more
realistic and have differentfeatures and people really felt
like their identity was beingtaken away and it's like whoa,
(46:11):
we need to look at this becauseif their avatars are becoming
their identity, that's a concern, that's a con and we need to
talk about that because, justlike in real life, we evolve, we
, our bodies change, and thatcan be very stressful on us
mentally, on our personal life,when our in real life body is
(46:33):
changing.
But that's also happening withour avatars.
That's never been thought ofbefore because that wasn't a
concern, it wasn't somethingthat was there.
But we're seeing that and wehave to be aware of it and then
speak to it and really shed somelight on what we really need to
focus on.
Just like we're talking aboutthe gap and the gain, what are
we really focusing on?
(46:54):
What's really important?
So I want to encourage anybodythat's stepping into any of
these technologies always beaware of the pros, the cons, but
also consider a pro might be acon, maybe not now, but maybe
later you can turn into it, yes.
So with that, I want to thankeverybody for tuning in.
We would love to hear yourthoughts, your comments, make
sure you click the link in theshow notes to send us a text and
(47:18):
don't forget, if you enjoyedthe podcast, leave us a review.
Those reviews help other peoplefind the podcast and with that
we hope you guys have an awesomeday and, I guess, an IRL and
the Metaverse.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you enjoyed this episode,hit, subscribe and leave us a
review.
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