February 15, 2025 • 27 mins
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Is the "cookie cutter coaching syndrome" stifling your photography business? Discover how to break free from generic coaching methods that leave you feeling stuck and inadequate. In this episode, we promise to equip you with the tools to transcend one-size-fits-all strategies and embrace personalized approaches that truly resonate with your unique business needs. We'll share insights from our own journeys and tackle the frustration of following scripts and guides that just don't work as expected.
Join us as we unravel the complexities of pricing and overcoming business plateaus, particularly in the creative industry. Learn how to approach your passion with the mindset of a CEO, using trial and error to optimize your business model. We'll explore how valuing your work and adopting customized strategies can elevate your confidence in pricing decisions, turning your photography into a thriving enterprise. Plus, get a sneak peek into the Unicorn Photographer Masterclass for even more ways to boost your success. Don't miss this opportunity to transform your passion into a flourishing business!
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Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Mindset and Money Mastery for
Photographers the podcast.
We help overwhelmedphotographers make more money
while simplifying their businessby mastering their you guessed
it mindset and money.
Tune in each week for practicaland actionable tips to take
your photography business up anotch.
Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hey guys, I am so excited to be back here with you
today and I'm going to talkabout another topic that came up
repeatedly while I was atImaging USA this year, and that
topic is let's just call it,cookie cutter coaching syndrome.
Yeah, that's what we're goingto call it for today.
(00:41):
I really wanted to dive intothis topic because it is
something that is super near anddear to my heart, because I
myself have been victim tocookie cutter coaching syndrome
and you're like well, what iscookie cutter coaching syndrome?
Karinda, that is a tonguetwister.
It's a really terrible term touse, but we're going with it now
.
(01:02):
So cookie cutter coachingsyndrome is what I see happening
when photographers come to meand they start talking to me
about their business and theysay something like this I've
taken so-and-so's course, orI've done this program or I've
done this mentoring and it'sjust not working for me.
(01:23):
Can any of you all say that youhave fallen into this trap or
had this happen to you as youwere building your business?
It's this idea that we're goingto go take a class or go
through a course or do mentoringwith somebody and we're going
to do exactly what they tell usto do and magically our
businesses are going to be fixed, us to do and magically our
(01:48):
businesses are going to be fixed.
And you see, what happens isthere's this level of
frustration because you sitthere, you do exactly what they
tell you to do and then you lookback and you say this didn't
work for me.
I must be a failure, I must notbe good at this, I must not be
meant for business, when in allreality, that's not the truth.
And what really happens a lotof times in these situations and
(02:11):
I'm not saying that this is allthe time, but a lot of times
what happens is you go through,you get the script, you get the
price guide, you get the PDF.
Whatever you get the do thisbecause I said so and you take
it and you go into your businessand you do it.
(02:34):
But the problem is the scriptdoesn't work for you.
You don't really understand thepricing or feel confident in
the pricing, or the PDF guidejust doesn't sound like
something you would ever say ordo or send to a client.
So you don't really feel goodabout what you're doing because
it's like you're trying to shovea round peg in a square hole.
(02:55):
So to say, right, you're tryingto fit someone else's business
into your business, somebodyelse that is different than you,
somebody else that is uniquefrom you, but this person's
telling you to do it becausethey said so.
And this has really caused adownward spiral effect for so
(03:18):
many photographers, because theyfeel like they've watched so
many other people be successfulat doing that and they don't
understand why they're notsuccessful with it.
And I will say that sometimesthe do this because I said so.
Here's the script works forpeople, but sometimes it doesn't
, and I have a few ideas of whythis could be.
(03:38):
I've really put a lot of timethinking about this, because
it's a conversation I've had somany times with people.
I'm thinking about this becauseit's a conversation I've had so
many times with people.
I think some personality typesand some people do better with
do this because I said so andthey're like OK, I'm going to do
it.
I'm going to do it blindly, I'mgoing to trust you and I'm just
going to go into this full tiltconfidence that it's going to
(03:59):
work, because you said it will.
And I think for those types ofpeople sometimes it does work
for some time for them.
I think eventually those peoplewill get to a place when they
go, oh, something doesn't feelright now, and then they have to
start pivoting and shifting.
But then I think there's anotherportion of people that take
that do this because I said soadvice and they say why, or I
(04:24):
don't understand this, or thisdoesn't make sense to me.
And in order for me to actuallybe able to do something and
implement something and feelgood about it and sell it as a
business owner, I have tounderstand it.
And that's, honestly, where alot of education falls short.
For photographers, the thing isthat telling somebody here's
(04:46):
the script or telling somebodyhere's the price list does work
for a lot of people, some peopleand, as an educator and as a
business coach, that is the easyroute to take to give somebody
the scripts, to give somebodythe price list and say do this.
It's a whole lot harder to takethat and say I'm going to teach
(05:10):
you how to create the pricelist, I'm going to teach you how
to create the script, I'm goingto teach you how to build it
and, honestly, most people don'twant to do the work to build it
on their own and to take thetime to fully understand it so
that way they can build it ontheir own.
And this is like a little mejust being like cold hard truth
(05:33):
of what I have seen in thephotography industry.
In my own experience as aphotographer who has digested so
much information and so manycourses and so much education,
but also as somebody who is nowon the education side of things,
helping other photographers, Iget asked all the time do you
give us your price list?
Do you give us your script?
No, I don't and honestly Inever will.
(05:57):
And the day that comes that Isay here's the script, like
somebody needs to come, knock meover the head and be like
Corinda, what are you doing?
You've gone to the dark side,because I feel like it doesn't
do you a whole lot of justice tojust have the script or to just
have the price list or justhave the.
Do this because I said so.
It is really a reason why Ihave struggled so much as a
(06:19):
business coach or photographers,because I feel like giving you
just a small piece of the puzzleisn't doing you justice in your
business and I don't want toset you up for failure by giving
you an incomplete picture ofsomething, and so that's why I
try to choose topics for thepodcast that I feel it can be
helpful, and feel it can beuseful when I'm giving these
small snippets of business toall of you Coming up here.
(06:43):
This week I'm going to be doinga three-day free, totally free
business masterclass.
It's going to be called theUnicorn Business Owner
Photographer Masterclass.
My tongue tie thing is just I'mjust getting all tongue twisted
today, but we are going to betalking a lot on that
masterclass about how to gothrough your business and figure
(07:06):
out if it's serving you, tofigure out if it works for you,
to figure out where you needhelp at, to figure out where you
need to grow at where you needto learn, at what things you
need to learn, I should say andreally help you go through your
business in a systematic mannerand hopefully close some of
those gaps, hopefully understandsome things in a different
manner and hopefully close someof those gaps, hopefully
understand some things in adifferent way, because that is
(07:29):
so incredibly valuable and Iwant y'all, through listening to
the podcast, through reading mybook, whatever it may be, if
you join my coaching programs,whatever it may be, it is my
hope that I can help you be aconfident business owner that
knows how to take what I'msharing with you, what I'm
(07:49):
telling you, how to take thisinformation to digest it in your
brain and then to put it intoaction in your business and to
feel confident about what you'redoing.
I love to ask people like how doyou feel about your pricing
right now?
And a lot of times what theysay to me is it's okay.
And I'll say why do you feellike that?
(08:10):
What is it about your pricingthat makes you feel that way?
And they'll be like what makesme really uncomfortable?
Okay, why does it make youuncomfortable?
I just don't understand why Ishould be charging this much for
this product or this thing orthis album or this wall art.
And I say to them next did youbuild your price list yourself?
(08:30):
Do you understand the financesin your business?
Do you understand the standardnumbers it takes to run a
business?
What is your COGS percentage?
Do you know why your COGS needsto be where it needs to be?
An inch?
Do you know why your COGS needsto be where it needs to be?
And a lot of times people say tome no, I'm just charging this
because somebody told me to.
I'm just charging this becausethis is the priceless my
(08:54):
business coach put together forme.
I'm just charging this becausethis is what I think everyone is
doing, but I don't reallyunderstand it and that, to me,
right there is one of thehardest things to hear a
business owner say but do youknow why it's hard for me to
hear that?
It's hard for me to hear thatbecause I remember when I was in
that place.
I remember when I was takingeverything at face value that
(09:17):
someone would tell me andplopping it into my business.
I remember when I was told dothis because I said so, do this
because it works for me.
I was told, do this because Isaid so, do this because it
works for me.
And when I asked why, it wastoo much to take the time to
explain, or maybe they didn'teven understand themselves and
(09:40):
that vicious cycle led me to somany dead ends.
It led my business and myselfto feeling like I didn't even
know what I was doing, like Iwould sit down and look at my
finances at the end of the yearand go like, how did I get here?
What am I doing wrong?
Oh, I need to change something,but I don't really know what I
need to change because I didn'tbuild it to begin with and I was
just off looking for the nextbest price list or whatever it
(10:02):
was to plop in my business.
And I'm telling you this todayand I decided to record this
podcast because I talked to somany people at Imaging that had
been in your shoes, had been inmy shoes where I was at that
said to me this isn't working.
And then I met so many otherpeople who said I did that thing
(10:23):
and it didn't work for me.
But I learned how to pivot andmake it work for me and now I'm
really happy.
And that is oftentimes the piecethat we're missing.
The piece that we're oftenmissing is taking something that
works really well for somebodyelse, or taking something at
face value that somebody else isteaching, and taking the time
(10:43):
to ask yourself why it works forthem, taking the time to truly
understand it and taking thetime to ask yourself why it
works for them, taking the timeto truly understand it and
taking the time to tweak it andmake it our own so that it works
for us.
That is so stinking valuable.
As a business owner, that isthe greatest thing you can do.
It's learning from a lot ofpeople.
It's learning from a lot ofdifferent industries.
(11:05):
It's learning from experts indifferent areas.
It's reading a lot of books,it's listening to a lot of
podcasts, right and it's alwayslooking for that little golden
nugget that's going to take whatyou're already doing and make
it better or more unique or fityou in a way that feels good for
you and works for you.
(11:26):
On the other side here, therecomes a time when we're doing
okay in our business.
We feel like we've made it work, we feel like we've gotten to a
place where it feels good to us, and then we get frustrated
because we feel like there's notanything else there, or we feel
I don't know what else to do tochange this, or I feel stuck.
Or how do I get over thishurdle?
(11:47):
Or how do I get past thisplateau From a pricing money,
financial perspective?
I typically see this fromphotographers.
When they are at that $2,000 to$3,000 average, they get stuck
in this plateau.
The reason is they've takensomething that somebody else
gave them that was really goodand worked for them, and they've
gotten this far.
But now they're at the point intime when they have to really
(12:11):
start to fine tune these littlebitty things and really start to
understand what is going intogetting those $2,000 to $3,000
clients so that they can getthose $5,000 and $6,000 clients,
or $10,000 or $15,000 clients,and that phase of business, once
you pass over the likeforgotten, going in a good
direction.
(12:31):
I know what I'm doing now,feeling good.
Then you hit that plateau andthen you go, oh crap, what do I
do now?
Because then you have to startdissecting the business that
you've built and you reallystart to understand it.
And when I got to that place inmy business is when I started
looking for help outside of thephotography industry.
It's when I started learningfrom experts in totally
(12:55):
different areas.
I learned about pricing from arestaurant person and I learned
about marketing from all kindsof random, different people that
knew nothing about thephotography industry.
And it was really insightful tolearn from these other
industries and these otherpeople and say, oh, I get why
(13:16):
the photographers are telling meto do this.
I get why my business coacheshave told me to do this.
I get why the courses I foughttold me to do this.
It's because of this reason orthis principle or this piece of
expertise that I learned overhere.
Now this is starting to makesense, or I was able to say, oh,
there's a gap here in what I'velearned and there's a gap here
in what I'm doing Now.
(13:37):
I need to tweak this.
But what was so hard and sofrustrating about that time of
my business is that's when Itruly had to become the expert
of business ownership.
That's when I truly had to stepinto the role of being a CEO
and understand that every word Isaid, every question I asked,
every interaction with myclients could be the difference
(13:59):
between a $1,000 client and a$15,000 client.
Something as simple as askingthe right question in the wrong
way could change the end resultand cost me thousands of dollars
.
But I had to take a lot of timeand a lot of energy and a lot
of brainpower to understand that.
And then I started making allthese little tweaks to my
(14:21):
business, all these littletweaks to my process, all these
little tweaks to my systems, myclient interactions, and that
got me to where I am today.
It took me having a deeperunderstanding of business.
So for those of you that arelistening to this and you're
like I'm doing, okay, I feellike I'm at this plateau.
I don't really know what to do.
My challenge for you is to takeyour knowledge of everything in
(14:43):
your business and just deepenit far beyond what you know or
what you think right now, andalso, in that same sense, know
that you're now mining for gold,right?
Nothing that you learn, I willsay nothing.
Most of what you learn is notgoing to feel earth shattering
for you and your business now.
(15:04):
But remember one question,asked the wrong way, can make a
difference in a tiny sale or agiant, huge sale.
But to get to figure out whatthat one question is, you have
to go through your wholebusiness from A to Z.
You have to look for every tinylittle crack.
It's looking over a woodenladder with a microscope, right?
(15:26):
You're going to sit there andlook at every little piece,
every little rung of the ladderand you're looking for the
tiniest hairline crack.
And if you find that littlehairline crack before you fall
through, you're going to fixproblems that you didn't know
were there or you're going tokeep running your business and
one day you're just going to hitthat rung on your ladder and
(15:47):
fall flat on your face and go.
What the heck just happenedBecause you hadn't taken the
time to really thoroughly gothrough your ladder and check
for all those little tiny cracks.
So those of you that are rightthere, I get you, I feel you, I
see you, I know where you're atand don't worry, it gets better.
I know where you're at anddon't worry, it gets better, I
promise.
But there is that littleplateau that you have to go
through and that plateau is aknowledge plateau.
(16:10):
That plateau is learning tolook at your business from a
different perception or adifferent way, and that plateau
is mining for a little goldennuggets along the way in your
business.
It's so hard for me to sit hereand be like.
Here is exactly what you needto do if you're at that plateau.
There's some big things thatpop into my head that I see
happen repeatedly, but what Iwould challenge you and this is
(16:33):
for any of you that arelistening to this, whether
you're at the very beginning,you're at that plateau or you
feel like you've passed thatplateau but you know that
there's some more inside of yourbusiness that you could grow
Sit down with your business andstart from scratch again.
Look at the products you'reselling, look at your pricing,
(16:54):
look at your COGS, look at allthe little tiny things that
right now might feel mundane, orI already know that I don't
need to look at that again andreally spend some time
reevaluating it.
Go back to your financials inyour business.
Go back to the role of a CFOand look at your business from a
different perspective, not justfrom the role of photographer.
And as you're going throughyour business this way, from
(17:16):
start to finish pricing, clientexperience, sales, marketing,
all of these things whenever youhit something that doesn't feel
quite right, getting all ofthese things, whenever you hit
something that doesn't feelquite right doesn't feel good.
It feels sticky.
I want you to ask yourself thisquestion Does this not feel
right?
Because I've done something inmy business that doesn't fit me,
(17:37):
what I believe, my why Doesthis still feel sticky?
Because I don't trulyunderstand it and I'm lacking
knowledge and understanding onthis topic?
Or does this feel stickybecause it is nothing I want
near myself and I don't know howI got here and I just woke up
one day and I was like why theheck am I doing this thing?
This sucks, get it out of mylife right now.
Period the end.
I'm done with you.
(17:58):
It might be that you need tomake some little tweaks and some
adjustments.
It might be that it's out ofalignment from what you believe
a little bit and can be tweaked.
It might be that you don'tunderstand it at all.
It might be that you'reterrified of it because you lack
understanding.
Or it might be that you havebeen doing something for the
last 10 years that you hateevery single day and you're done
(18:20):
with it, and I want you toreally think about those things
in your business because that isso important.
I'm in year 13 now of businessand there are some days when I
wake up and I help people dothis all the time.
There's some days when I wakeup and I just look at something
in my business and I'm sayingwhy the heck am I doing this?
This is stupid.
Who told me to do this and whyhave I been holding on to this
(18:43):
thing that is so silly and sostupid for so many years?
But then it becomes hard to letit go because you're like I've
been doing it for so long, right, and it takes a minute of
sitting there and looking at whythis feels that way all of a
sudden.
And, trust me, there have beena lot of times in the last 13
years of business that I havewoken up and been like what the
(19:03):
heck am I doing with my business, what the heck am I doing with
my life?
And I will tell you this.
I will talk about things onthis podcast, I will talk about
things in my book, and you mighthear me say things that you are
just like there is no way inhell I'm doing that.
That is insane and that's okaywith me.
I don't want each and every oneof you to do exactly what I do,
but what I hope is that I caninstill some knowledge in you
(19:25):
that will help you grow andunderstand your business from a
different perspective thanyou've ever looked at it before.
That's what I hope.
I was talking to somebody just acouple weeks ago and they said
to me you know what Iappreciated about you, corinda,
is I appreciated listening toyou talk about making money as a
photographer?
And you said to us you need toknow what you need to make to
(19:46):
meet your revenue goals.
Yes, you think that in-personsales is the easiest and best
way, and that's what you love inyour heart and soul, but I love
that.
You also said to us if we cancharge accordingly and make
enough money and we want to giveaway our digital files, then go
for it.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I don't have a problem with youwanting to do things however
(20:07):
you want to do them, but lookout for your blind spots, look
out for the red flags, look outfor the dead-end roads that you
might run into, because we haveto try things as a business
owner, we have to try themdifferent ways, and a lot of
times we have to hear advicethat's good advice and we have
to go run the opposite way anddo it wrong, and then we have to
(20:28):
learn our lesson and turn backaround and say, wow, I should
have really done it the way shetold me to the first time.
Or, man, she was right when shewarned me about that.
But that is business ownership.
It is simply a series of trialand error, of testing, of
experimentation, of thescientific method.
(20:49):
Right, we do something, we seewhat the results are.
If it's not what we wanted, wetest it another way.
We keep track of our numbers,we keep track of our metrics.
We're constantly looking forways to optimize, to increase
our revenue, to increase ourtime back in our lives.
Right, that is what business isabout is looking at all of these
(21:13):
things.
It's making sure the businessfeels good to us, making sure
the business makes sense to usand making sure the business
pays us well, because if we arenot paid well, we are simply
just doing a really expensivehobby and spending a lot of time
away from our families and ourloved ones to work our butts off
(21:34):
for nothing.
And that's really what I wanty'all to know is y'all deserve
to be paid.
Y'all deserve to have abusiness.
That is something you can doforever if you want to, and
that's something people alwaysask me and I'm putting this on
the record right here on thepodcast, because that's what I
love to do is put myself on thespot and say things that one day
(21:55):
I might look back at and saywhy did I say that?
But I'm going to say it.
People ask me all the timeKarinda, are you still a
photographer?
Do you solve a business?
Is this like your plan B?
You're going to get out ofbeing a photographer and,
honestly, my photographybusiness is what makes me money.
My photography business pays mybills.
I wish I could stand up here andsay that I am the most
(22:19):
successful person in the worldat selling my courses and
hanging out coaching clients,but I'm not.
I love just helping people.
And I'm an expert at helpingpeople make money in their
businesses and I'm really goodat it.
For some reason, I am not thebest at selling myself as a
business coach.
I am really good at sellingportraits.
I can sell portraits in mysleep.
I can make money as aphotographer in my sleep, right.
(22:41):
That's why I'm not an expertteaching people how to be a
coach and sell themselves to thecoach.
I do this, I do the podcast, Iwrote the book, I have the
coaching program because I lovehelping people, because when I
started my business, I hadsomebody sit down and look at me
square in the face and she saidto me Corinda, you need to
(23:04):
charge your worth, make sureyou're not being too cheap, make
sure you're not underminingeverything I've worked for in
this industry and all of theseother photographers have worked
in this industry for the lasthundred years or whatever she
said.
I don't know how many years shesaid, but it was a lot of years
and quite literally, she scaredme a little bit.
I thought to myself if I'mgoing to do this, I do not want
(23:26):
to undermine these otherphotographers who've done this,
who've made this a career, and Iwant to make sure that, if this
is my career that I'm choosingand this is the life I'm
choosing, that I make the bestdecisions for this industry in
my business and in that therewas a piece of me that felt like
I owed it to her and everyother photographer that came
before us to carry that on andto share and to make sure that
(23:49):
photographers coming into thisindustry or photographers that
have been in this industry andare struggling knew, without a
doubt, you can make money as aphotographer, you can charge
accordingly and there are peoplehere who are happy and friendly
and willing to help you do thatand we want to see you succeed.
I want to see my neighborsucceed.
(24:10):
I have a coaching client thatliterally lives in the same town
and photographs the same thingas I do and I she knows
everything that I know.
I have downloaded my brain intoher brain pretty much, but it's
important to me that all of ussucceed and it's important to me
that this industry succeeds andthat's what I want for you.
So if you are listening to this,please know you can do this.
(24:31):
You can be a successfulbusiness owner, but in order to
do that, you're going to have totake off your just a
photographer hat.
You're going to have to decidethat you are going to be the CEO
of your business.
You're going to have to decidethat you are going to be the CEO
of your business.
You're going to have to decidethat you're going to put on your
business owner pants.
(24:51):
Do the hard things, put thework in and spend just as much
time learning business as youhave taken learning photography
and your art, because once youlearn how to be a business owner
and business becomes easy, thenyour art can become fun again,
because it will no longer feellike you're just the starving
artist trying to make it, tryingto sell your art and yourself
(25:16):
in order to pay your bills.
It will feel like you arerunning this rich and thriving
business that feels good andlooks good and is everything you
could have ever imagined.
And it just so happens that youget to use your talent as an
artist to do that and to fulfillyour clients' needs and their
wishes and make their heartshappy.
I hope this has been helpfultoday.
(25:37):
Guys, this is one of thoseepisodes that I just feel like I
needed to come on and share atthe spur of the moment, whenever
the inspiration struck me,there it is.
I laid it on the table and yougot to hear off the cuff Corinda
, on this episode today.
If you have not alreadyregistered for our Unicorn
Photographer Masterclass that ishappening February 17th, 18th
(25:59):
and 19th make sure that you hopon over to the link in the show
notes and register.
Or, if you missed it, go thereand register and we can get you
access to the replace and hop onthat.
Listen to our masterclass thatwe're doing and I hope that in
that masterclass you're going tofind some golden nugget that
you need today, this week,whenever you're listening to
(26:21):
this, that is going to changethe trajectory of your business
or help you look at yourbusiness in a brand new way.
If you haven't already, grabour book, the Unicorn of
Business Books for Photographersthe link is in the show notes
for that as well.
Hop on over in our Facebookgroup, photography Business.
Tune up with Corinna Kay, sendme a message, tell me what you
got out of this episode.
I love hearing from y'all.
Also, guys, please, when yousee me out in the wild at a
(26:45):
photography conference, come sayhi.
It was so fun getting to meetso many of y'all that came up to
me randomly and were like hey,I listen to your podcast.
It just absolutely fills myheart with joy, because when
we're recording podcasts, wedon't always get to hear all the
cool things that people lovefrom it.
So leave us a rating review,send us a message, tell us what
you think.
Tell us what you think, tell uswhat other topics you want to
(27:08):
hear us dive into.
And do you want more Karindarants or do you want more
Karinda by the book?
Let me know what you think.
Bye, guys.
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
support the podcast, please makesure you share it on social
media or leave a rating andreview.
As always, you can check outthe links and resources in the
show notes over atmasteryourmindmoneycom.
To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on Instagram
at masteryourmindmoney, anddon't forget to join our free
Facebook group.
Photography Business Tune Upwith Corinda Kay.
(27:37):
Thanks again and I'll see younext time.
Welcome to Mindset and Money Mastery for
Photographers the podcast.
We help overwhelmedphotographers make more money
while simplifying their businessby mastering their you guessed
it mindset and money.
Tune in each week for practicaland actionable tips to take
your photography business up anotch.
Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hey guys, I am so excited to be back here with you
today and I'm going to talkabout another topic that came up
repeatedly while I was atImaging USA this year, and that
topic is let's just call it,cookie cutter coaching syndrome.
Yeah, that's what we're goingto call it for today.
(00:41):
I really wanted to dive intothis topic because it is
something that is super near anddear to my heart, because I
myself have been victim tocookie cutter coaching syndrome
and you're like well, what iscookie cutter coaching syndrome?
Karinda, that is a tonguetwister.
It's a really terrible term touse, but we're going with it now
.
(01:02):
So cookie cutter coachingsyndrome is what I see happening
when photographers come to meand they start talking to me
about their business and theysay something like this I've
taken so-and-so's course, orI've done this program or I've
done this mentoring and it'sjust not working for me.
(01:23):
Can any of you all say that youhave fallen into this trap or
had this happen to you as youwere building your business?
It's this idea that we're goingto go take a class or go
through a course or do mentoringwith somebody and we're going
to do exactly what they tell usto do and magically our
businesses are going to be fixed, us to do and magically our
(01:48):
businesses are going to be fixed.
And you see, what happens isthere's this level of
frustration because you sitthere, you do exactly what they
tell you to do and then you lookback and you say this didn't
work for me.
I must be a failure, I must notbe good at this, I must not be
meant for business, when in allreality, that's not the truth.
And what really happens a lotof times in these situations and
(02:11):
I'm not saying that this is allthe time, but a lot of times
what happens is you go through,you get the script, you get the
price guide, you get the PDF.
Whatever you get the do thisbecause I said so and you take
it and you go into your businessand you do it.
(02:34):
But the problem is the scriptdoesn't work for you.
You don't really understand thepricing or feel confident in
the pricing, or the PDF guidejust doesn't sound like
something you would ever say ordo or send to a client.
So you don't really feel goodabout what you're doing because
it's like you're trying to shovea round peg in a square hole.
(02:55):
So to say, right, you're tryingto fit someone else's business
into your business, somebodyelse that is different than you,
somebody else that is uniquefrom you, but this person's
telling you to do it becausethey said so.
And this has really caused adownward spiral effect for so
(03:18):
many photographers, because theyfeel like they've watched so
many other people be successfulat doing that and they don't
understand why they're notsuccessful with it.
And I will say that sometimesthe do this because I said so.
Here's the script works forpeople, but sometimes it doesn't
, and I have a few ideas of whythis could be.
(03:38):
I've really put a lot of timethinking about this, because
it's a conversation I've had somany times with people.
I'm thinking about this becauseit's a conversation I've had so
many times with people.
I think some personality typesand some people do better with
do this because I said so andthey're like OK, I'm going to do
it.
I'm going to do it blindly, I'mgoing to trust you and I'm just
going to go into this full tiltconfidence that it's going to
(03:59):
work, because you said it will.
And I think for those types ofpeople sometimes it does work
for some time for them.
I think eventually those peoplewill get to a place when they
go, oh, something doesn't feelright now, and then they have to
start pivoting and shifting.
But then I think there's anotherportion of people that take
that do this because I said soadvice and they say why, or I
(04:24):
don't understand this, or thisdoesn't make sense to me.
And in order for me to actuallybe able to do something and
implement something and feelgood about it and sell it as a
business owner, I have tounderstand it.
And that's, honestly, where alot of education falls short.
For photographers, the thing isthat telling somebody here's
(04:46):
the script or telling somebodyhere's the price list does work
for a lot of people, some peopleand, as an educator and as a
business coach, that is the easyroute to take to give somebody
the scripts, to give somebodythe price list and say do this.
It's a whole lot harder to takethat and say I'm going to teach
(05:10):
you how to create the pricelist, I'm going to teach you how
to create the script, I'm goingto teach you how to build it
and, honestly, most people don'twant to do the work to build it
on their own and to take thetime to fully understand it so
that way they can build it ontheir own.
And this is like a little mejust being like cold hard truth
(05:33):
of what I have seen in thephotography industry.
In my own experience as aphotographer who has digested so
much information and so manycourses and so much education,
but also as somebody who is nowon the education side of things,
helping other photographers, Iget asked all the time do you
give us your price list?
Do you give us your script?
No, I don't and honestly Inever will.
(05:57):
And the day that comes that Isay here's the script, like
somebody needs to come, knock meover the head and be like
Corinda, what are you doing?
You've gone to the dark side,because I feel like it doesn't
do you a whole lot of justice tojust have the script or to just
have the price list or justhave the.
Do this because I said so.
It is really a reason why Ihave struggled so much as a
(06:19):
business coach or photographers,because I feel like giving you
just a small piece of the puzzleisn't doing you justice in your
business and I don't want toset you up for failure by giving
you an incomplete picture ofsomething, and so that's why I
try to choose topics for thepodcast that I feel it can be
helpful, and feel it can beuseful when I'm giving these
small snippets of business toall of you Coming up here.
(06:43):
This week I'm going to be doinga three-day free, totally free
business masterclass.
It's going to be called theUnicorn Business Owner
Photographer Masterclass.
My tongue tie thing is just I'mjust getting all tongue twisted
today, but we are going to betalking a lot on that
masterclass about how to gothrough your business and figure
(07:06):
out if it's serving you, tofigure out if it works for you,
to figure out where you needhelp at, to figure out where you
need to grow at where you needto learn, at what things you
need to learn, I should say andreally help you go through your
business in a systematic mannerand hopefully close some of
those gaps, hopefully understandsome things in a different
manner and hopefully close someof those gaps, hopefully
understand some things in adifferent way, because that is
(07:29):
so incredibly valuable and Iwant y'all, through listening to
the podcast, through reading mybook, whatever it may be, if
you join my coaching programs,whatever it may be, it is my
hope that I can help you be aconfident business owner that
knows how to take what I'msharing with you, what I'm
(07:49):
telling you, how to take thisinformation to digest it in your
brain and then to put it intoaction in your business and to
feel confident about what you'redoing.
I love to ask people like how doyou feel about your pricing
right now?
And a lot of times what theysay to me is it's okay.
And I'll say why do you feellike that?
(08:10):
What is it about your pricingthat makes you feel that way?
And they'll be like what makesme really uncomfortable?
Okay, why does it make youuncomfortable?
I just don't understand why Ishould be charging this much for
this product or this thing orthis album or this wall art.
And I say to them next did youbuild your price list yourself?
(08:30):
Do you understand the financesin your business?
Do you understand the standardnumbers it takes to run a
business?
What is your COGS percentage?
Do you know why your COGS needsto be where it needs to be?
An inch?
Do you know why your COGS needsto be where it needs to be?
And a lot of times people say tome no, I'm just charging this
because somebody told me to.
I'm just charging this becausethis is the priceless my
(08:54):
business coach put together forme.
I'm just charging this becausethis is what I think everyone is
doing, but I don't reallyunderstand it and that, to me,
right there is one of thehardest things to hear a
business owner say but do youknow why it's hard for me to
hear that?
It's hard for me to hear thatbecause I remember when I was in
that place.
I remember when I was takingeverything at face value that
(09:17):
someone would tell me andplopping it into my business.
I remember when I was told dothis because I said so, do this
because it works for me.
I was told, do this because Isaid so, do this because it
works for me.
And when I asked why, it wastoo much to take the time to
explain, or maybe they didn'teven understand themselves and
(09:40):
that vicious cycle led me to somany dead ends.
It led my business and myselfto feeling like I didn't even
know what I was doing, like Iwould sit down and look at my
finances at the end of the yearand go like, how did I get here?
What am I doing wrong?
Oh, I need to change something,but I don't really know what I
need to change because I didn'tbuild it to begin with and I was
just off looking for the nextbest price list or whatever it
(10:02):
was to plop in my business.
And I'm telling you this todayand I decided to record this
podcast because I talked to somany people at Imaging that had
been in your shoes, had been inmy shoes where I was at that
said to me this isn't working.
And then I met so many otherpeople who said I did that thing
(10:23):
and it didn't work for me.
But I learned how to pivot andmake it work for me and now I'm
really happy.
And that is oftentimes the piecethat we're missing.
The piece that we're oftenmissing is taking something that
works really well for somebodyelse, or taking something at
face value that somebody else isteaching, and taking the time
(10:43):
to ask yourself why it works forthem, taking the time to truly
understand it and taking thetime to ask yourself why it
works for them, taking the timeto truly understand it and
taking the time to tweak it andmake it our own so that it works
for us.
That is so stinking valuable.
As a business owner, that isthe greatest thing you can do.
It's learning from a lot ofpeople.
It's learning from a lot ofdifferent industries.
(11:05):
It's learning from experts indifferent areas.
It's reading a lot of books,it's listening to a lot of
podcasts, right and it's alwayslooking for that little golden
nugget that's going to take whatyou're already doing and make
it better or more unique or fityou in a way that feels good for
you and works for you.
(11:26):
On the other side here, therecomes a time when we're doing
okay in our business.
We feel like we've made it work, we feel like we've gotten to a
place where it feels good to us, and then we get frustrated
because we feel like there's notanything else there, or we feel
I don't know what else to do tochange this, or I feel stuck.
Or how do I get over thishurdle?
(11:47):
Or how do I get past thisplateau From a pricing money,
financial perspective?
I typically see this fromphotographers.
When they are at that $2,000 to$3,000 average, they get stuck
in this plateau.
The reason is they've takensomething that somebody else
gave them that was really goodand worked for them, and they've
gotten this far.
But now they're at the point intime when they have to really
(12:11):
start to fine tune these littlebitty things and really start to
understand what is going intogetting those $2,000 to $3,000
clients so that they can getthose $5,000 and $6,000 clients,
or $10,000 or $15,000 clients,and that phase of business, once
you pass over the likeforgotten, going in a good
direction.
(12:31):
I know what I'm doing now,feeling good.
Then you hit that plateau andthen you go, oh crap, what do I
do now?
Because then you have to startdissecting the business that
you've built and you reallystart to understand it.
And when I got to that place inmy business is when I started
looking for help outside of thephotography industry.
It's when I started learningfrom experts in totally
(12:55):
different areas.
I learned about pricing from arestaurant person and I learned
about marketing from all kindsof random, different people that
knew nothing about thephotography industry.
And it was really insightful tolearn from these other
industries and these otherpeople and say, oh, I get why
(13:16):
the photographers are telling meto do this.
I get why my business coacheshave told me to do this.
I get why the courses I foughttold me to do this.
It's because of this reason orthis principle or this piece of
expertise that I learned overhere.
Now this is starting to makesense, or I was able to say, oh,
there's a gap here in what I'velearned and there's a gap here
in what I'm doing Now.
(13:37):
I need to tweak this.
But what was so hard and sofrustrating about that time of
my business is that's when Itruly had to become the expert
of business ownership.
That's when I truly had to stepinto the role of being a CEO
and understand that every word Isaid, every question I asked,
every interaction with myclients could be the difference
(13:59):
between a $1,000 client and a$15,000 client.
Something as simple as askingthe right question in the wrong
way could change the end resultand cost me thousands of dollars
.
But I had to take a lot of timeand a lot of energy and a lot
of brainpower to understand that.
And then I started making allthese little tweaks to my
(14:21):
business, all these littletweaks to my process, all these
little tweaks to my systems, myclient interactions, and that
got me to where I am today.
It took me having a deeperunderstanding of business.
So for those of you that arelistening to this and you're
like I'm doing, okay, I feellike I'm at this plateau.
I don't really know what to do.
My challenge for you is to takeyour knowledge of everything in
(14:43):
your business and just deepenit far beyond what you know or
what you think right now, andalso, in that same sense, know
that you're now mining for gold,right?
Nothing that you learn, I willsay nothing.
Most of what you learn is notgoing to feel earth shattering
for you and your business now.
(15:04):
But remember one question,asked the wrong way, can make a
difference in a tiny sale or agiant, huge sale.
But to get to figure out whatthat one question is, you have
to go through your wholebusiness from A to Z.
You have to look for every tinylittle crack.
It's looking over a woodenladder with a microscope, right?
(15:26):
You're going to sit there andlook at every little piece,
every little rung of the ladderand you're looking for the
tiniest hairline crack.
And if you find that littlehairline crack before you fall
through, you're going to fixproblems that you didn't know
were there or you're going tokeep running your business and
one day you're just going to hitthat rung on your ladder and
(15:47):
fall flat on your face and go.
What the heck just happenedBecause you hadn't taken the
time to really thoroughly gothrough your ladder and check
for all those little tiny cracks.
So those of you that are rightthere, I get you, I feel you, I
see you, I know where you're atand don't worry, it gets better.
I know where you're at anddon't worry, it gets better, I
promise.
But there is that littleplateau that you have to go
through and that plateau is aknowledge plateau.
(16:10):
That plateau is learning tolook at your business from a
different perception or adifferent way, and that plateau
is mining for a little goldennuggets along the way in your
business.
It's so hard for me to sit hereand be like.
Here is exactly what you needto do if you're at that plateau.
There's some big things thatpop into my head that I see
happen repeatedly, but what Iwould challenge you and this is
(16:33):
for any of you that arelistening to this, whether
you're at the very beginning,you're at that plateau or you
feel like you've passed thatplateau but you know that
there's some more inside of yourbusiness that you could grow
Sit down with your business andstart from scratch again.
Look at the products you'reselling, look at your pricing,
(16:54):
look at your COGS, look at allthe little tiny things that
right now might feel mundane, orI already know that I don't
need to look at that again andreally spend some time
reevaluating it.
Go back to your financials inyour business.
Go back to the role of a CFOand look at your business from a
different perspective, not justfrom the role of photographer.
And as you're going throughyour business this way, from
(17:16):
start to finish pricing, clientexperience, sales, marketing,
all of these things whenever youhit something that doesn't feel
quite right, getting all ofthese things, whenever you hit
something that doesn't feelquite right doesn't feel good.
It feels sticky.
I want you to ask yourself thisquestion Does this not feel
right?
Because I've done something inmy business that doesn't fit me,
(17:37):
what I believe, my why Doesthis still feel sticky?
Because I don't trulyunderstand it and I'm lacking
knowledge and understanding onthis topic?
Or does this feel stickybecause it is nothing I want
near myself and I don't know howI got here and I just woke up
one day and I was like why theheck am I doing this thing?
This sucks, get it out of mylife right now.
Period the end.
I'm done with you.
(17:58):
It might be that you need tomake some little tweaks and some
adjustments.
It might be that it's out ofalignment from what you believe
a little bit and can be tweaked.
It might be that you don'tunderstand it at all.
It might be that you'reterrified of it because you lack
understanding.
Or it might be that you havebeen doing something for the
last 10 years that you hateevery single day and you're done
(18:20):
with it, and I want you toreally think about those things
in your business because that isso important.
I'm in year 13 now of businessand there are some days when I
wake up and I help people dothis all the time.
There's some days when I wakeup and I just look at something
in my business and I'm sayingwhy the heck am I doing this?
This is stupid.
Who told me to do this and whyhave I been holding on to this
(18:43):
thing that is so silly and sostupid for so many years?
But then it becomes hard to letit go because you're like I've
been doing it for so long, right, and it takes a minute of
sitting there and looking at whythis feels that way all of a
sudden.
And, trust me, there have beena lot of times in the last 13
years of business that I havewoken up and been like what the
(19:03):
heck am I doing with my business, what the heck am I doing with
my life?
And I will tell you this.
I will talk about things onthis podcast, I will talk about
things in my book, and you mighthear me say things that you are
just like there is no way inhell I'm doing that.
That is insane and that's okaywith me.
I don't want each and every oneof you to do exactly what I do,
but what I hope is that I caninstill some knowledge in you
(19:25):
that will help you grow andunderstand your business from a
different perspective thanyou've ever looked at it before.
That's what I hope.
I was talking to somebody just acouple weeks ago and they said
to me you know what Iappreciated about you, corinda,
is I appreciated listening toyou talk about making money as a
photographer?
And you said to us you need toknow what you need to make to
(19:46):
meet your revenue goals.
Yes, you think that in-personsales is the easiest and best
way, and that's what you love inyour heart and soul, but I love
that.
You also said to us if we cancharge accordingly and make
enough money and we want to giveaway our digital files, then go
for it.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I don't have a problem with youwanting to do things however
(20:07):
you want to do them, but lookout for your blind spots, look
out for the red flags, look outfor the dead-end roads that you
might run into, because we haveto try things as a business
owner, we have to try themdifferent ways, and a lot of
times we have to hear advicethat's good advice and we have
to go run the opposite way anddo it wrong, and then we have to
(20:28):
learn our lesson and turn backaround and say, wow, I should
have really done it the way shetold me to the first time.
Or, man, she was right when shewarned me about that.
But that is business ownership.
It is simply a series of trialand error, of testing, of
experimentation, of thescientific method.
(20:49):
Right, we do something, we seewhat the results are.
If it's not what we wanted, wetest it another way.
We keep track of our numbers,we keep track of our metrics.
We're constantly looking forways to optimize, to increase
our revenue, to increase ourtime back in our lives.
Right, that is what business isabout is looking at all of these
(21:13):
things.
It's making sure the businessfeels good to us, making sure
the business makes sense to usand making sure the business
pays us well, because if we arenot paid well, we are simply
just doing a really expensivehobby and spending a lot of time
away from our families and ourloved ones to work our butts off
(21:34):
for nothing.
And that's really what I wanty'all to know is y'all deserve
to be paid.
Y'all deserve to have abusiness.
That is something you can doforever if you want to, and
that's something people alwaysask me and I'm putting this on
the record right here on thepodcast, because that's what I
love to do is put myself on thespot and say things that one day
(21:55):
I might look back at and saywhy did I say that?
But I'm going to say it.
People ask me all the timeKarinda, are you still a
photographer?
Do you solve a business?
Is this like your plan B?
You're going to get out ofbeing a photographer and,
honestly, my photographybusiness is what makes me money.
My photography business pays mybills.
I wish I could stand up here andsay that I am the most
(22:19):
successful person in the worldat selling my courses and
hanging out coaching clients,but I'm not.
I love just helping people.
And I'm an expert at helpingpeople make money in their
businesses and I'm really goodat it.
For some reason, I am not thebest at selling myself as a
business coach.
I am really good at sellingportraits.
I can sell portraits in mysleep.
I can make money as aphotographer in my sleep, right.
(22:41):
That's why I'm not an expertteaching people how to be a
coach and sell themselves to thecoach.
I do this, I do the podcast, Iwrote the book, I have the
coaching program because I lovehelping people, because when I
started my business, I hadsomebody sit down and look at me
square in the face and she saidto me Corinda, you need to
(23:04):
charge your worth, make sureyou're not being too cheap, make
sure you're not underminingeverything I've worked for in
this industry and all of theseother photographers have worked
in this industry for the lasthundred years or whatever she
said.
I don't know how many years shesaid, but it was a lot of years
and quite literally, she scaredme a little bit.
I thought to myself if I'mgoing to do this, I do not want
(23:26):
to undermine these otherphotographers who've done this,
who've made this a career, and Iwant to make sure that, if this
is my career that I'm choosingand this is the life I'm
choosing, that I make the bestdecisions for this industry in
my business and in that therewas a piece of me that felt like
I owed it to her and everyother photographer that came
before us to carry that on andto share and to make sure that
(23:49):
photographers coming into thisindustry or photographers that
have been in this industry andare struggling knew, without a
doubt, you can make money as aphotographer, you can charge
accordingly and there are peoplehere who are happy and friendly
and willing to help you do thatand we want to see you succeed.
I want to see my neighborsucceed.
(24:10):
I have a coaching client thatliterally lives in the same town
and photographs the same thingas I do and I she knows
everything that I know.
I have downloaded my brain intoher brain pretty much, but it's
important to me that all of ussucceed and it's important to me
that this industry succeeds andthat's what I want for you.
So if you are listening to this,please know you can do this.
(24:31):
You can be a successfulbusiness owner, but in order to
do that, you're going to have totake off your just a
photographer hat.
You're going to have to decidethat you are going to be the CEO
of your business.
You're going to have to decidethat you are going to be the CEO
of your business.
You're going to have to decidethat you're going to put on your
business owner pants.
(24:51):
Do the hard things, put thework in and spend just as much
time learning business as youhave taken learning photography
and your art, because once youlearn how to be a business owner
and business becomes easy, thenyour art can become fun again,
because it will no longer feellike you're just the starving
artist trying to make it, tryingto sell your art and yourself
(25:16):
in order to pay your bills.
It will feel like you arerunning this rich and thriving
business that feels good andlooks good and is everything you
could have ever imagined.
And it just so happens that youget to use your talent as an
artist to do that and to fulfillyour clients' needs and their
wishes and make their heartshappy.
I hope this has been helpfultoday.
(25:37):
Guys, this is one of thoseepisodes that I just feel like I
needed to come on and share atthe spur of the moment, whenever
the inspiration struck me,there it is.
I laid it on the table and yougot to hear off the cuff Corinda
, on this episode today.
If you have not alreadyregistered for our Unicorn
Photographer Masterclass that ishappening February 17th, 18th
(25:59):
and 19th make sure that you hopon over to the link in the show
notes and register.
Or, if you missed it, go thereand register and we can get you
access to the replace and hop onthat.
Listen to our masterclass thatwe're doing and I hope that in
that masterclass you're going tofind some golden nugget that
you need today, this week,whenever you're listening to
(26:21):
this, that is going to changethe trajectory of your business
or help you look at yourbusiness in a brand new way.
If you haven't already, grabour book, the Unicorn of
Business Books for Photographersthe link is in the show notes
for that as well.
Hop on over in our Facebookgroup, photography Business.
Tune up with Corinna Kay, sendme a message, tell me what you
got out of this episode.
I love hearing from y'all.
Also, guys, please, when yousee me out in the wild at a
(26:45):
photography conference, come sayhi.
It was so fun getting to meetso many of y'all that came up to
me randomly and were like hey,I listen to your podcast.
It just absolutely fills myheart with joy, because when
we're recording podcasts, wedon't always get to hear all the
cool things that people lovefrom it.
So leave us a rating review,send us a message, tell us what
you think.
Tell us what you think, tell uswhat other topics you want to
(27:08):
hear us dive into.
And do you want more Karindarants or do you want more
Karinda by the book?
Let me know what you think.
Bye, guys.
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
support the podcast, please makesure you share it on social
media or leave a rating andreview.
As always, you can check outthe links and resources in the
show notes over atmasteryourmindmoneycom.
To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on Instagram
at masteryourmindmoney, anddon't forget to join our free
Facebook group.
Photography Business Tune Upwith Corinda Kay.
(27:37):
Thanks again and I'll see younext time.
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