July 14, 2025 • 53 mins
What if you could quadruple your photography income—while cutting your session count in half?
In this eye-opening episode, photographer and educator Rob Faber shares how he transformed his business from a high-volume, low-return hustle into a streamlined, profitable model. Once shooting 120 sessions a year while working full-time as a teacher, Rob was charging around $500 per shoot-and-burn session… until he realized something wasn’t adding up.
After switching to a product-based sales approach, Rob’s average client investment jumped to $1,800–$2,200—while he dramatically reduced his workload. Even more shocking? About 75% of his former digital-only clients never downloaded their photos, revealing a powerful truth about perceived value and client experience.
Rob brings a unique perspective as both a photographer and a teacher, drawing powerful connections between educating students and guiding photography clients. His approach to authentic selling, adapting to different client communication styles, and leading with value offers practical insight for photographers at every stage.
Whether you're feeling stuck in the shoot-and-burn cycle, juggling photography with another job, or simply want to boost your income without burning out, this conversation is packed with actionable strategies and fresh perspective.
Tune in now, then join our free Facebook group Photography Business Tune-Up with Karinda K to connect with other photographers and keep the momentum going.
Meet Rob Faber
Rob Faber is a portrait photographer with over 15 years of experience capturing life’s most meaningful moments. Based in Northern Connecticut and serving Western Massachusetts, Rob specializes in creating timeless portraits with a personalized touch—offering both indoor and outdoor sessions throughout towns like Suffield, Simsbury, Avon, Longmeadow, and beyond.
Known for his high-end retouching, tailored service, and commitment to delivering an unforgettable client experience, Rob blends technical expertise with a warm, approachable style that puts families at ease in front of the camera. His mission is simple: to help clients not only love their images, but value them for years to come.
Explore his portfolio at www.robfaberphotography.com and follow along on Instagram at @robfaberphotography.
Connect with Karinda!
- Ready to Sell More Wall Art? Join us in Your Magic Year to Sell More Wall Art
- Website
- Photography Business Tune-Up with Karinda K. - Free Facebook Group
- IG @Masteryourmindmoney
Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Mindset and Money Mastery for
Photographers the podcast.
We help overwhelmedphotographers make more money
while simplifying their businessby mastering their you guessed
it mindset and money.
Tune in each week for practicaland actionable tips to take
your photography business up anotch.
Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Okay, so today on the podcast, we have Rob.
Rob is one of my formercoaching clients and he has done
amazing things with hisbusiness.
He has done an incredible jobbuilding a network in his
community and connections with alot of people, which I think is
really amazing, and he is justalways, I feel, like putting
himself out there, showing upfor his business, putting the
(00:44):
work in, which I think tells alot about his work ethic and his
determination towards hisbusiness.
So, rob, why don't youintroduce yourself to everyone?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Sure, thank you for that.
Yeah, I'm Rob, located on theEast Coast.
I'm in Northern Connecticut andI have been doing photography,
I would say picked up a camera.
It's only been about probablyabout 20 years, business wise.
I started my business back in2017, when I started taking it a
(01:15):
little more seriously and forabout a year, people were kind
of like, hey, would you do ourfamily photos?
We'll give you money.
And I was like, yeah, ok, andI've always been in the public
sector as far as work wise, andso I've never, never, done
business stuff before.
I was very hesitant about doinga business.
(01:36):
My, my idea of photography, mypurpose for for that was just
catching, you know, my kids inaction and throughout their
lives growing up.
For me, I've always been drawnto photography and portraits.
Like I always loved going up,you know, in the attic in the
brown paper bags and finding theold photos you know of you know
(01:56):
, when my siblings and I wereyounger or my parents were
younger and things like that,and I just loved, like just
going through the piles ofphotos and stuff and I wanted my
kids to have that.
Of course, you know, thingschange and I realized when
people started, you knowoffering to pay money.
I could kind of expand what Iwas doing and I could upgrade in
(02:17):
my equipment and so it kind ofwas something that was just a
supplemental income to pay foritself About.
It started getting more andmore serious, you know, a couple
of years into it, and starteddoing seniors and more families.
Then I started doing, you know,headshots.
I kind of went into everything.
I know, everything I read andeverything I you know, watched
was, you know, fun niche andstick with that.
(02:39):
That just wasn't me.
It's still not me Like.
I have a style I like, butwhoever wants to, you know, kind
of jump in that style with me.
You know, whether it befamilies, seniors, sports, you
know is what I got really into,not so much the action stuff but
the portraits, the making.
You know kids look, look badassand dark, moody, you know edgy
(03:01):
stuff and yeah, that's kind ofkind of where we are.
And yeah, the funny thing aboutyou know, when I found you, you
know it wasn't that I waslooking for a business coach.
I wasn't looking, I wasn'tthinking I was, I knew I wasn't
doing everything right, but Ididn't think I was doing really
anything wrong.
And then I started listening toyour podcast and I was like
(03:23):
holy crap, I could be making alot more money, like there is a
lot more opportunity out here.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And so I remember you know scheduling a call and
getting on with you, and youwere like yeah we can make you
more money.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, okay.
So I think what's really uniqueand what's important to point
out here is that you wereworking a full-time job.
Yes, you were shooting aroundhow many sessions a year while
working your full-time job.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
About 120.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Okay, that's a lot for most people right, most
photographers don't shoot thatmuch volume.
So when you contacted me andyou were like, hey, I have a
real job, I'm also shooting 120sessions a year, I was like,
with the right tools here, ifyou can take what your clients
are spending with you now andquadruple whatever that might be
, that will be just next levelfor you, like that will change
(04:11):
everything.
So when you first contacted me,you were doing shoot and burn,
giving all the digitals, correct.
I was Yep and how much were youcharging at that time?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I would say by the time that we had connected, I
think it was like $500 a sessionand it was.
They got a lot for their money.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay, so do you mind sharing what kind of your
clients are spending now aroundDeVal?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, I would say on average.
We're looking at about like$1,800, $1,800 to $2,200 on
average.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So you effectively 4X'd about your client.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And I think there's still more growth there that's
waiting to happen.
I think you just need a bit oftime cooking everything to get
there.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Which is really cool to think about.
It's like you know, a year fromnow, you could be doubling that
again, so I really love that.
What was that transition like?
Going from giving all thedigitals to all of a sudden
having to say to your clientsyou're not getting all the
digitals anymore, you have tobuy your portraits.
What was that?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
It was a tough transition because you know,
with those, you know, let's say,a hundred sessions.
You know it was, I would say 80, 80 of those, 80% of those were
repeat clients.
You know that I'd worked with,you know, at least for two,
three years, and so some of them, you know, some of them, we, we
transitioned.
You know where I, especiallywhen I first started, I was like
(05:34):
hey, can you go through thiswith me?
I'm working on a new style.
I'm working on, you know, a newstructure, something that'll
benefit everybody.
Can you just kind of go through?
You know a couple of the uh,this, uh, uh, ips.
You know with me, you know, andthey were great about it, and
you know whether they boughtbecause they were just helping
me out or whether they liked theproduct.
But once they got like the, theprints and the and the products
(05:55):
and stuff, they were like holycrap, yeah, it's, it's different
.
Um, and it's funny.
You know, I, I, what you see iswhat you get with me, right, I,
I'm, I can bs all all you know,I, I, what you see is what you
get with me, right, I, I, I'm, Ican BS all all you know.
Um, you know about, aboutanything that we and I can talk,
and I can make small talk, butwhen I'm selling something or
when I'm providing something,like it has to be real, uh.
(06:17):
And so you know the big thingwas.
I remember, you know, uh, youknow, going through your courses
and you know the five steps towall art and the different
vendors and I remember, like youknow, four or five different
vendors that I would order justsome samples from, and you know,
samples for me are just thingsI can put on my wall.
(06:39):
And then once I like narroweddown where I wanted and I
printed one of my first you knowbig metal print which was like
a 30 by 40 for a client and itshowed up.
And of course I still haveeverything sent to me because I
have a tendency to sometimes putan order in wrong.
(07:00):
So I just I like to doublecheck still, but with this
vendor they had to come to meanyway.
There was no drop shipping.
And I opened it up and I lookedat it.
I was like holy crap, like thisis, this is very different.
It's one of those I was likewow, I didn't realize, like I
was that good, you know.
And and my clients were blownaway by it.
They loved it.
They ended up ordering likethree more pieces and yeah, like
(07:21):
, and so it's something that Ihad to see and I had to believe
that it was a difference makerand I and I go photos from years
ago and being able to touch itand being able to, you know,
(07:47):
pass it on and things like that,and so I really where I from
before my shoot and burn was notnecessarily because I thought
digitals were better, it's justbecause I didn't want to deal
with, you know, deal withclients and ordering prints.
And you know, you know, dealwith clients and ordering prints
(08:08):
and you know the uh, marking upand things like that.
And I just wanted to avoid that.
Um, and the time it takes, andit is time, you know.
So you know when you would,when you say, you know we go
through a process of how to, howdo you price?
You know your, your, yourproducts, things like that.
Time is a big factor in that.
You know, um, it's not just,you know, take, take your number
and times it by two or times itby three or whatever.
It's well, no, like, how much,how many, how many, how much
(08:30):
FaceTime do I have?
You know where.
You know we're doing thereveals, or you know we're doing
a follow-up reveal or somethinglike that.
You know all that.
All that plays a part.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
So I think that's a bighesitation for a lot of people.
They're like I am happy makingmy 500 bucks, giving them their
digitals and being done with myclients.
I don't have the time to doimage reveals, I don't have the
time to deal with wall art.
What would you say to them inresponse to that?
Like, is that worth it?
And really like, with how muchmore time versus how much more
(09:01):
money you're making.
Like, how does that all playout now in your life and in your
business?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
The time factor is huge, butyou have to find the value in
the time.
I love doing the revealsbecause it ends up being a game
for me.
Once we go through a bunch ofimages, I can already predict
whether they're going to likethe next image or not.
Or, or you know they, theycompletely, you know, go
opposite of what they've alreadybeen doing and it's just fun,
(09:27):
like you know, some clients likeuh, look away shots, you know
where.
They're not looking at thecamera, they're looking off, or
they're more in between, uh,pose shots.
Those are the ones I absolutelylove and some clients don't
love them at all.
So you know the reveals areimportant because it's you know,
I don't know I don't want todeliver.
You know half the a bunch ofphotos and half them you're not
(09:52):
going to like anyway.
You know I'm not going to takemy time to edit and and you know
you talk about time, right,like all the time that we take
to get their favorites and stuffor our favorites, which aren't
going to be theirs, but knowing,knowing that what I create gets
put on a wall or in an albumand it's going to be there on
their wall a long time likethat's, that's worth, it's worth
(10:12):
it, it's worth the time, andit's, and it's and it's and it's
worth the money.
And it doesn't always work outthat way either.
Like you know, you go through areveal and I've walked away
with people, you know, justdoing the minimum.
You know, whatever their studiocredit was, which I'm like
that's okay, because everyreveal like I learned something
about myself and I learned someway to do it better.
Yeah, regardless of how manyI've done, you know, so far,
(10:34):
yeah, so effectively.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
right, you can do a quarter of the sessions you were
doing before.
Right, you're spending an extra, maybe hour, two hours dealing
with the client with the newsystem.
But you're making four timesthe amount of money right so?
It's like yes, there is moretime spent, but there's a
(10:55):
happier client, there's a betterexperience and there's more
money in your pocket for thatmore time.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah, if you want to look atflat out time, absolutely You're
.
It's whether you're spendingthat time talking with somebody
and meeting them on their level,you know, and getting to know
them and them getting to knowyou versus rapid shooting.
You know, four nights a weekand my seniors this year, like I
, almost doubled my, uh, mysenior sessions in within one
(11:21):
year.
Like you, typically I'll go uplike $50, $100, you know, for
the those, those seven yearsthat I've been doing it, and
then this year I I almostdoubled.
I went up by, you know,probably about eighty percent um
and I had about, you know Ilost about a third of of um.
You know my total number, right, right, usually I'm around 45,
(11:45):
50.
This year I think I was at like35, which wasn't it's not a huge
drop off by any means, butthere was way more money there
and I had more time, more nightsto myself because I, you know,
I'm like, like most of us, likeI'll shoot just one session, you
know, a day, cause I want thatgolden hour.
You know, portrait lighting and, yeah, I mean it's, it's, I'm
(12:11):
not doing four sessions, youknow, a day and given, you know,
the first couple of ones crappylights and and and shooting
until, uh, you know, there is nolight, um, you know.
So, yeah, it's, it's time, andit's time and it's and it's
valuable time, because thoseclients, those 35 clients I
worked with, are no doubt goingto be either referrals or repeat
clients, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
How has your relationship with your clients
changed?
From shoot and burn you saidlike it was like quick, rapid,
four sessions a week type thing,versus now where you have more
time to focus on those clients.
Have you noticed a differencein the relationships with them?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I have and I always feel like I had a good
relationship with clients, evenup to the delivery.
You know, you see this all thetime, right?
Photographers get annoyed whenthey deliver their digital
gallery and they don't get aresponse.
You know, they don't even getlike, oh, this is amazing, you
know.
They just get nothing and a lotof times that was the end of my
relationship with them, youknow.
(13:12):
So, to be able to continue theexperience after the session and
know that you're not just thereto shoot their portraits but to
help them design and help them,you know, let them pull back
the curtain a little bit and letthem see, you know the wizard.
You know, as far as hey, thisis what I'm looking for, and you
narrowed down to these two orthese three photos, Let me give
you my opinion, you know, orthey'll be like hey, what's your
opinion?
What do you think about thisone?
You know, and so it's.
It's just a better experiencefor them.
They're I'm more involved,they're more involved, you know,
(13:34):
and they feel more comfortablewith their selections.
Because I got to tell you atleast 75%, 75% of my shoot and
burn clients never evendownloaded their photos, let
alone printed their photos.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
That's a very valuable point and I I see that
because I give my clientsdigital files for social media.
I agree, If I go look throughmy galleries, how many people
actually download the digitalfiles that they get with their
prints?
Half the people don't downloadthem.
No.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Then that just shows you like.
For me it was like, yeah, I wasgiving too much.
You mentioned this yesterday inyour, in your training, your
training.
But I always go back to thatfree sushi right, there's so
much there or they feel likethey've got so much for a little
bit of money that it's notvaluable to them.
It's not as appealing.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I have a fun question , as going through the image
reel process and sitting downand helping your clients pick
their favorite images changedthe way you shoot your sessions
100%, Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I make sure that I shoot first of all, both in
vertical and horizontal to avoidcropping and losing some detail
.
I shoot with the idea, with thepicture of an album page in
mind, and I shoot with the ideaof where that image, or where
that you know that portrait canhang Right.
No, I 100% has changed the wayI shoot, because it's not just
(14:58):
what is, what does it look like,you know, through on the back
of the screen, when can this beput Right?
There's plenty of times, likeduring a session, where I'll,
I'll shoot a set of images andI'll and I'll show the client.
I'll be like you know, thiswould look amazing, as like a
series of photos in an albumRight, or a set of photos on the
wall.
I look back and I'm like, yeah,like that's a great, like
(15:19):
planting a seed and and and youknow, and that I'm really
excited about it.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Right, you can see it in your head.
Yeah, okay.
So on that note, then has thesales process surprised you, as
you went through and learned thesales process and started to
implement it.
Is it what you thought it wasgoing to be, or is it different
than you expected?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
As far as you mean, like the sale, selling to the
client.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Like taking your client from the first point of
contact all the way to the end.
Did it happen the way youthought it would?
Or, once you got in the programand started learning the whole
process of how we get clients tobuy, did anything surprise you
there?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
No, a lot.
Well, yes, a lot of itsurprised me, because I am your
typical consumer, right, andshow me something, give me ads
that pop up all the time, youknow, and eventually they're,
they're gonna get me right.
And so, like a lot of the, alot of the things I look at for
my clients is how would I reactto this and what would I say,
(16:21):
you know?
And so I'm very critical as faras like, how I, how I approach
and how I, you know, plant thoseseeds.
I don't want to seem fake and Iwant to be genuine.
Um, and so learning that wholeprocess was was mind-blowing to
me, cause, like every episode,you know, or every piece I was
watching from your thing, I waslike, oh my God, that's me,
that's how they got me, that'show, that's why I bought this,
(16:42):
that's why I bought, you know,and you know, I came from
imaging and I, you know,purchased something and I'm like
God damn.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
It was that sales tactic that got me.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But it was seeing it in action and seeing the behind
the scenes, because that's how alot of my photography skills
work.
I didn't do a whole lot ofclasses and I did some of the
creative live stuff, but mostlyit was.
I loved when photographerswould post behind the scenes
stuff, because before the behindthe scenes stuff I'm always
sitting.
I'm like, all right, where theyput the light for that?
Where was the light facing youknow?
Did they have, you know, a filllight?
(17:19):
You know when they were outsideor were they using a reflector?
And so a lot of times it was melike, all right, I'll buy a
reflector, all right, I'll buy alight and try this out.
And then once that like thatkind of the the rage of behind
the scenes happened, I was like,oh, you say it's perfect.
I'm like that's all, it was onelight and it was right there,
and it was, you know, and you'remetering for the sky and I'm
(17:40):
like, okay, but so you know, togo back to that, though, like
the psychology of sales again,like I have to, I have to be
100% bought into it in order forme to sell it.
You know which kind of takes meback.
People are like, oh, why'd youget into photography?
I'm like, well, because Ididn't want to pay somebody else
to do it.
It was something I love to doand I didn't, you know, for me.
You know, I'm the kind of guylike I don't know if you can
hear it outside right now, butI've've always mowed my own lawn
(18:02):
and I've always chopped downtrees, but it's, it's one of
those.
I always did it because Ididn't want to pay somebody else
to do it.
Now it's well, my time isvaluable and you know what it's
actually cheaper for me to paysomebody versus the time it
(18:25):
takes for me to do it.
Or to, you know, find my kidsafter they run off and have them
help me and stuff.
So it's just a lot, lot less ofa headache.
And so I wanted to.
I want to provide a service.
That's that's, you know,convenient for people.
Yes, it's going to be expensive, but you know what it's going
to be expensive.
If you try to create these onyour own, you're going to have
to take time and learn and taketime and purchase, you know,
(18:47):
equipment, stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, I love that.
So what?
Out of the process oftransitioning to selling, was
there anything that stood out toyou that really, like,
surprised you the most?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Surprised me the most with the selling.
It's a good question, I would.
I would say, what I kind ofexpected and I and I think this
was more of a self fulfilledprophecy was, I think when I
first started doing it, peoplewere hesitant to, you know,
spend the money on the printswhich I again like I didn't.
Would I have done it?
No, would I have paid that muchmoney for it?
No, and so it was kind of likeyou know how can I expect them
(19:21):
to?
And then when they what wassurprising is when they did and
when I would.
What was great is when Iactually had samples, just
prints that I would, I would doof clients or of my family and
have them in studio, because Ihave a small studio in the back
part of my house here, which isthe old.
This room that you see here isactually on paper as the master
suite.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Your business took over your master suite.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
It was never the master suite.
So when we moved in fulldisclosure I didn't kick my wife
out of the room and move allthe stuff out, no, it's like a
big part of the house, that'slike two rooms and we used it as
the kids' playroom.
When we moved in here, our kidswere younger, my wife wanted
all the bedrooms on the secondfloor, so there was three
bedrooms upstairs, soeverybody's upstairs, and so
once I kind of changed this allup and everything, I was, you
(20:08):
know, I'm like this is cool,like I can actually shoot some
stuff in here, I can do myportrait stuff that I love, all
my artificial light Plus I canbring clients in.
Now, and I think that was thatwas.
I think the aha moment for mewas when I could actually have
them here.
You know, as I'm taking picturesof their kid, they're looking
around at the photos on the wall, the different you know stuff I
(20:30):
have, you know, deliberatelyaround at the photos on the wall
, the different stuff I havedeliberately laid out so they
can see what a fine art matfinish mounted looks like and
feels like, versus me justtelling them this is what I do
when you have the floppy glossypaper sitting there versus this
beautiful fine art mat paper.
It's different.
It different and that's that'swhat kind of I think that's
(20:52):
that's.
The biggest thing thatsurprised me was the ability to
for them to see it, to then buyinto it more, which again go
back to me and like that's 100what I would do, like I need to
see stuff, for me to purchasesomething.
It's typically I researched ita lot and looked at the
competitors and seen like I'mnot one to rent and then buy.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I like to use the old , you know the whole free
returns after you know we're in30 days.
But no, I like to have it andplay with it and then decide.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, I feel like you shared something important
there, which was that in thebeginning you didn't really you
were hesitant because youweren't sure if anybody would
spend the money right, and so Ithink you had this hesitation
going into it with those firstseveral clients that you were
like, okay, I know there's abetter way, I believe in this
because I think it's valuable,but I don't know if I would do
(21:42):
it, and so it took that likeactually just doing it to change
your mindset.
First, because the clients cantotally tell when we're doing
something and we have thehesitation in the back of our
mind, it will kick us in thebutt time and time again,
because our clients feel it,they see it, they're like this
guy's trying to sell mesomething that he doesn't even
act like he's excited about.
Why am I going to buy it fromhim?
(22:04):
And I think that is so, soimportant to acknowledge and
just to point out that ifanyone's dealing with that, you
have to do that, work yourselfon your brain and on your
mindset, to try so hard, goinginto those first several reveals
to be like my clients are goingto love this, they're going to
want to buy it.
My clients are going to love it.
They're going to buy it Overand over and over again in your
head.
And psych yourself out of thatweird, funky mentality, because
(22:27):
it is the easiest way tosabotage yourself.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Going into the world and that's you know.
Don't sell something that youknow you wouldn't want and you
know that you wouldn't want tohang in your house or or or have
on display or something likethat.
You know it's.
I'm only selling products thatI want to, that I would put in,
you know, in my home.
You know which.
I know that that's definitelynarrows it down, but it makes it
a lot easier to sell and itmakes it more genuine.
(22:52):
Which people want to buy frompeople.
You know they, they, they wantto buy because they know that,
um, you know you're using what'shanging up in their house is
going to be what's hanging up inyour house.
Right, you know you go to yourmechanic like, well, what kind
of car do you drive?
You know, you know that kind ofthing.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, I love that.
Okay, so tell me this what isyour favorite thing to
personally sell Like?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
what is your favorite thing that, when a client buys
it, you're like yes, I would sayan album, and it's funny
because it's the last album Isold.
I designed the whole thing andthen the client wanted to go
through it with me and likeredesign it and I kind of we did
a reveal and this was somebodywho was an over lover and had
way too many images, and so Ilegit like just built the album
(23:36):
with you know, a hundred imagesin it, and I told her I go,
listen, it's too big, I go, butI want you to see what it looks
like.
You know, because I they couldget the uh, the proof, you know,
on uh online and I'm like Ijust want you to go through and
I want you to eliminate right,there's going to be a couple of
things that, a couple ofpictures that look the same.
You know, that are uh, I don't,you couldn't narrow it down,
but maybe if you have an albumyou can see what you know what
(23:58):
they look like and uh.
So when we met again, shereally wanted to go through and
design together and it was likeanother like two hours together,
which, again, like I didn'thave a problem with because I
knew whatever she was going toget, it was what she and I built
together.
You know it wasn't going to bea.
Yeah, I don't know why youchose this picture, I don't know
(24:21):
why this one really didn't workhere.
And you know well, when it comesto the albums it's they're
getting a whole lot of eight bytens, five by sevens, you know,
in one place on beautiful, in abeautiful, you know compact, big
album.
So the price point pricepoint's high but the value is
higher and then the time thatgoes into it is is is super,
(24:43):
super valuable and we and againit's another opportunity to just
keep building connections.
You know this person's alreadyreferred me to three other
clients, you know.
So it pays dividends, you know,and not for the purpose of
getting those, you knowdividends.
But if you go into it lookingat like, oh well, if I'm really
nice to her, maybe I'll get more, no, you gotta be, it's gotta
(25:04):
be what you like to do.
If you're not a people person,then you know, if you're the
introvert behind the camera thatdoesn't like to deal with
clients, then good luck.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, it's funny.
We had this conversation when Iwas doing Bethany's podcast
interview.
We talked a little bit aboutintrovert thing.
Like I actually consider myselfan introvert.
Bethany was sharing that sheconsiders herself an introvert.
So if I walk into a big roomfull of people, I kind of like
freak out and I'm like I don'tknow what to do and I'm like I
don't know what to do.
I don't know who to talk to,but one-on-one I'm good.
So I would say don't use yourintrovertedness as an excuse not
(25:35):
to go talk to people, becauseeven introverts are normally
okay one-on-one right.
It's the big group crowdsituations that freak introverts
out.
And I think the other thing isthat sometimes you have to learn
tools to talk to people and todeal with people.
To talk to people and to dealwith people and that's something
like even inside the coachingprogram like I'm always sharing.
Like here's this way that youcan say something to somebody
(25:55):
that's going to get them to openup.
Or here's this method you canuse to ask that question that's
going to make it sound easy.
Here's this method to connectwith a stranger in public right,
and taking those tools and thatknowledge on how to communicate
and how to talk to people andthen also making it your own,
because if I teach Rob some wayto ask a question, rob's going
to ask the question differentlythan I am and differently than
(26:18):
Corey or Austin or someone else,and so understanding I think
the reason and the logic behindthe things we do in our business
is so valuable.
And then taking those thingsand making them your own,
because Rob and I speak verydifferently but Rob and I now
use the same kind of frameworkto have conversations but the
conversations flow slightlydifferently, but the logic and
(26:40):
the reason behind thoseconversations we have all point
to the end result.
So I think that's really,really important to remember.
What would you say, rob?
The journey of like goingthrough and figuring out how to
like figure out those scripts ofwhat to say and when to say
them to clients, or figuring outhow to navigate that.
All of the steps along the wayand me saying, like here's the
purpose of it.
(27:00):
Now you have to figure out howto make it work for you.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
It was tough because initially it was.
I felt like I was even, youknow as well as I knew it, I was
still scripted and for me, I'mthe most unscripted person
you'll ever meet.
You know, I'm a teacher as well.
That's my, my full-time careerand even that, like my lessons,
(27:24):
I know the objective of what I,you know what I want to get
across, how it's going to bedelivered.
I don't know until I getfeedback from the students.
Right, and it's a similar thingwith with clients is I don't,
I'm not going to sit here and ifI realize that I had a body
experience and I sit and look atmyself and I'm like, dude,
you're talking too much, Like Ihave to stop and ask a question,
like I can't stand hearingmyself talk for for, you know,
(27:48):
an extended period of time, youknow, and I cause I again, when
somebody does that to me and I'mjust like sitting there, uh-huh
, uh-huh, uh-huh, I don't hearanything.
You know, if you're, if I'm notengaged in it, if I'm not
contributing, like I'm, I'm notlistening, you know.
And so I think the big thingabout you know, having a script,
you know and I use that termlightly is is you have to.
(28:08):
You can't disregard your ownpersonality, you know, and your
ability to talk to people.
You, you have to not only giveinformation, but you have to get
information.
You have to, as I said, youhave to interview them, you know
.
You have to ask them questions,what they want.
Let them start talking, youknow.
Let them let them kind of tellyou and then, depending on what
they say, is is when you guidethat conversation.
(28:30):
It's not easy and when Istarted doing it, you know where
it was more like a script and Iwanted to get through it.
I struggled and I abandoned itvery quickly because I'm one of
those like I'm not going tostick with something that I feel
is not working.
Like I'm not.
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And I think that happens, like I think people so.
In my journey, whenever I waslearning how to like have these
conversations with clients, Iwent through so many courses or
had coaches that would just pickhere's the script you need to
use, here's the price list youneed to use, and I would use it
for a while and then I would belike wait hold on what's
happening.
I'm reading off of a piece ofpaper, talking to somebody, and
(29:06):
then I started to wonder likeokay, I've noticed there's these
trends, there's these thingsthat people are telling me I
need to say or do.
But why are they telling me todo these things?
Why are they telling me to askthese stupid questions that seem
just like cut and paste thesame bull crap but doesn't sound
like me?
Why are they telling me to dothese things?
And then I started looking atthose things and realizing there
was a purpose behind why theywere doing that and saying, okay
(29:28):
, now I need to figure out howto turn this into a real
conversation, and now I need tofigure out how to turn this next
part into a real conversationon this and this, on a real
conversation.
And I think when you're learningto have those conversations you
kind of feel like and itdepends on your personality.
I see some people that they'relike they learn the stuff, they
make their script and they'relike trying to stick to it,
because they're like I have todo the thing and I have to
follow the steps.
(29:48):
I have to be a good student.
And then you have to realizethat it's not just a script,
it's a deeper, deeperunderstanding of the
conversation that's happeningand learn how to flow through
that naturally, because then itfeels organic and it feels like
a real conversation with afriend and not just the
telemarketer that's sittingthere reading the phone script
(30:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
And I think that's really important.
Yeah, and and teaching is thesame thing.
There's I work with people thathere's the lesson plan.
They have to get through it in45 minutes and, regardless of
what any kid says or does, like,they're going to say what they
need to say and they're going tohave them do the work that they
need to work, do the whateverwork they have to do, and I've
never been able to do that.
(30:30):
It's always I teach in aconversation.
You know format, you know Ineed engagement.
I need to know that peoplearen't bored with me.
I need to know that my messageis getting across and whether
that's in the classroom orwhether that's, you know,
educating on, you know what theexperience working with me is
like.
They're equally important.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Okay.
So I have a side note here, aquestion, I guess.
I always say that, like most ofour job is really, we're
educating our clients throughoutour process, and I always like
to say, when you educate someoneon something, you have to say
the same thing a lot ofdifferent ways and in a lot of
different styles, because somepeople are auditory learners,
(31:10):
some people learn by seeing thewords, some people learn by
answering questions about it.
Right?
So the process and the way Ialways think about it is my
process with my client.
I'm teaching them and educatingthem along the way as we go, so
that way, by the time we get tothe image reveal, they know
what it is they want to get,they know the answer to the
question and they're able tomake an educated decision on
(31:32):
that topic.
So, as a teacher, do you seekind of the similarities between
the process with their clients?
Now, now that I don't know ifyou've ever thought about it
like that, but do you seesimilarities there?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Absolutely.
I mean, yes, like so, you know,in the classroom we have every.
Every kid is a different typeof learner, right, you know, you
have your kinesthetics, youhave your, you know your tactile
, your auditory, your visualright, and so our lessons have
to have to encompass all ofthose learning styles.
And, and it's the same thing,like you said, we're we're
(32:06):
educating our clients and so,yeah, I have to deliver them
information in different ways.
It's like when you get a, youknow, a lead form, do you text,
do you email, do you call?
Right, you know, yeah, I mightemail you and text you to let
you know that I'm going to call,because you know you may.
Number one I'm not.
I'm a very tactile person,Hence the whole.
(32:27):
I have to show you what theseproducts look like no-transcript
(33:15):
.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I'm just so bad I cannot write.
My A's mom and he was just likeI'm a terrible at writing my
letters, and I looked at him andwas like, well, you know, once
upon a time I was really bad atwriting my letters too, but I
worked on it and I got betterand now I don't even have to
think about it and it seems sosimple and basic.
(33:36):
But everything we've ever donein our life was hard until we
did it over and over and overagain.
But we get to choose whetherwe're the four-year-old sitting
on the ground throwing a fitbecause it's hard or if we're
going to put on our big kidpanties and do it again, over
and over and over again.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
I think there's this really badbelief in the photography
industry that you can just senda bunch of emails to your
(33:58):
clients and send them a bunch ofprep guides to read and that
they're going to understand andknow what to expect.
And I think that that is one ofthe worst things that happened
to me in the early years of mybusiness was just relying and
depending on the fact thatclients were going to actually
read the information and retainthat information right.
So that's whenever I reallystarted having conversations
(34:20):
with people and that's when Istarted asking questions of my
clients, both verbally andwritten, on a form that they
would fill out right.
And so I have also learnedthings like sometimes I write
things in a paragraph form Onetime I say it, the next time I
write it I will list it inbullet points and I will say the
same thing two different ways,because some people will never
(34:41):
read the bullet points and somepeople will never read the
paragraphs.
So it's about over-educatingour clients in this way that
everybody learns in theircertain way, and hopefully we've
kind of touched on all thosepoints.
So I really think that's animportant thing to point out
here especially.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Absolutely.
It's with anything.
You know, whatever you put outthere and this goes on so many
different levels you putsomething out there once and we
have this assumption that it's100% it's going to be retained
by the recipient and it's not.
I'll go back to the classroomagain.
(35:18):
I understand that, whatever I'mtalking about, that specific
day, I'm hoping 50% of themcatch on to it.
I'm not even saying 50% of themretain everything.
I just want to spark somethingand for them to be able to come
back to that if they need to.
And the next day I hope I hitanother 20%, another 20% the
(35:38):
next day.
The worst thing we can do isassume that everybody is going
to get our message in the exactsame way, because it's just not
going to happen.
That idea that we put somethingon social media, we do a post
and we think that great,everybody saw that.
All 3,000, 5,000, 10,000followers saw that one.
So I shouldn't post that againor I shouldn't reference that
(36:00):
again.
No, you have to do it in adifferent way.
Whether you do it in a reel orwhether you do it in a carousel
or something else.
It's got to be repetitive, butin different formats.
I think that's a big downfallof a lot of people is they think
you know, well, I emailed, youknow like, yeah, man, I get a
lot of emails, shoot me a text,you know, call me, you know,
send me a message on, like giveme a lot of different ways that
(36:24):
I can't avoid you.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Like give me a lot of different ways that I can't
avoid you.
Okay, so I have a question Inthe classroom teaching, is there
like a magic number that y'allsay like this is how many times
the average student has to likehear something or interact with
a specific thing to actuallylearn it?
Like, is there a magic numberthere that they use?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Magic number, not so much.
But they have, like differentlevels of you know, depending on
the curriculum or depending onthe program.
You know, sometimes it's a hey,this is just an introductory
thing.
Then you're going to say, seeit again in this unit, and then
they're going to expect them toknow it by this unit.
Unfortunately, in our educationsystem they assume two or three
(36:59):
times and they should have it.
That's not how it works.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, and so, like I say, and from the marketing
world, they say in order to buysomething you have to be see it
eight times.
So I think like that meanstheir awareness takes at least
eight times of hearing somethingor seeing something.
And because we're so constantlybombarded, I think the number
is really a lot higher now.
So I say like 15 times.
If we talk about it or shareabout it 15 times, then we
(37:26):
should be guaranteed that ourclients know what to expect.
If we only do it eight times,we're probably going to end up
with a client here and there.
That's like what, what'shappening?
I didn't read any of that stuff, I didn't pay any attention to
that.
I just put a random letter inthat form.
So I think you have to kind ofover-educate sometimes and feel
like you're overdoing it withyour clients a lot of times.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Well, right, and I think too it's.
You know the style guides andthe other thing you're talking
about before it.
They're not bad things.
I don't think we abandon those,it's just know that.
That's just one touchpoint,right, that's just one thing.
And go back and reference it,you know, in another thing, you
know, so they can try to connectand say, oh wait, I did get
(38:09):
that email.
Let me look back on that.
You know I've done that plentyof times with your stuff, like
just looking for the Zoom links.
I'll do that.
I'm like I know she sentsomething out like three times.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And yeah, I mean that's the truth of the life we
live in and the world we live in.
Okay, so tell everyone kind ofwhat it was like as you were
going through our program likeMaster your Mind and Money.
So you walk through courses,you have group calls, you have
one-on-one support.
What was that journey like foryou, going through the process,
and how would you explain it tosomebody who's like?
What is it even like to be inCorinda's circle and to work
with Corinda?
Speaker 3 (38:45):
It's, it's a lot.
Number one like it's it's a lot, like there's a lot of material
out there and it's easy to getoverwhelmed.
I would say you organized itvery well and you were very
specific as to like, don't jumparound.
You know, start here.
You know, and, and I would saythe like the group calls and
especially the one-on-ones, likethat was, you know, from a
(39:05):
teacher student perspective.
Like I wanted to make sure Iwas prepared, right, I wanted to
make sure I was, you know, notnot so much of like getting a
bad grade, but man, I just Ijust spent some money.
Like I want to make sure I'mgetting what I, you know what I
paid for.
Like I want to make sure I'musing it, which you know, how
many times have we subscribed tosomething you know and it's
just a website of you knowvideos and stuff like that, and
(39:27):
you look at it once or twice andyou don't go back to it.
I think you know you, you havea good accountability system.
You know that in place and itreally helps you going forward.
And, you know, coming to thoseone-on-ones or those group
meetings, you know, withquestions ahead of time, even if
you were, you know we were toask them in the Facebook group
or or something else.
You know, just seeing somebodyelse's response from there, you
(39:49):
know, trigger something.
You know it's not about, it'snot about getting all the
answers, you know, it's aboutkind of just lighting that fire
in a sometimes the samedirection, sometimes a different
direction, to get you get yourmind thinking differently.
And you know, get you get yourmind thinking differently.
And you know the big thing thatyou did, I mean, and you've,
(40:12):
I've completely gone into thewhole mindset thing and you said
you just talked about before,about Kai, and you know how I'm
terrible at this the negativeself-talk, like we don't even.
How do we learn that?
Right, how do we learn that?
You know, when we try somethingand it's hard, we get down on
ourselves, right, like thinkingmore about it's just, it's an
opportunity, and I'm notexpecting the four-year-old to
do that, but I'm saying for us,you know, when we lose a client,
(40:34):
or when we or lose a lead andwe're, you know we don't have a,
the client doesn't come back,or something like that.
You know, instead of you know,thinking negative oh I screwed
up, I screwed up, I screwed up,you know it's or even putting
the blame on them, like, well,you know that's, you know
they're whatever.
You know, looking inward andseeing all right, what could I
(40:54):
have done differently?
What?
What did I say?
What did I?
What did I not pick up on, youknow?
Or did it just flat out, whichI've become very good at.
It's just not my client right,like and and that's that's
probably the been the biggestshift from my first, you know,
five years in business, thinkingthat I have to be everybody's
(41:15):
photographer.
I want to be everybody'sphotographer, I want to be the
most popular photographer around, like I want to do.
Yeah, I'll do that, I'll dothat, I'll do that.
Right To no, I'm not.
I don't think we're a good fit,you know.
No, you know I'm not.
I haven't done that before andI'm not really doesn't really
interest me, you know or no,that's great.
That so-and-so down, you know,in the next town, will do it for
$300 cheaper.
I'm like then work with them,you know, being able to let go
(41:40):
and being able to understandthat you know you're not for
everybody and everybody's notfor you.
That was a huge, huge takeawayfrom the work we did together.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
It's amazing.
It's so interesting to hear,when I ask people this question,
to hear how differenteveryone's perspectives on this
are.
Like what their big thing thatthey really say like this is the
one thing that I grasp ontothat helped change the way I
looked at my business.
Okay, so I have a question.
I love asking this how much ofthe course videos did you
actually watch?
Did you watch most of them ordid you skip around a lot?
(42:16):
Did you do the thing I told younot to do and you did actually
skip around?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
So I stayed on track right.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
You're the A plus student, Rob.
That's why.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
No, no, no.
Well, I wasn't finished, Istayed on track.
And then I think, once thevideos got like 60 minutes and
like 75 minutes, the marketingvideos.
Yeah, I think it was themarketing that I stopped and I
was just relying more on thegroup chats and I was realizing
I was definitely doing more andI had more like in the moment
questions and things like that.
I think not that your contentwasn't wasn't good, it was just
(42:54):
I was.
I feel like I just neededsomething else at that point and
I just and it.
Once you fall out of it, it'shard to like jump back in.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, it's funny.
I have people sometimes thatwill come through the program
and they like barely watch anyvideos but they show up to every
group call and they askquestions and they're always
doing their one-on-ones andthey're just like, and they get
so much out of it without evenwatching the stuff.
And then I have other peoplethat are like they're like
dedicated, like they have aschedule of how they're going to
attack everything and they getit done and they will sit and
(43:21):
watch those videos like they'rein a college lecture.
So it's always fun to heardifferent perspectives from
people of like you can show upto the calls and you can get as
much out and you can just watchthe course.
I have some people that justwatch the courses and hardly
ever show up to the group calls,and so I think it's really
interesting.
But I would say you weredefinitely like a show up and
listen on the group calls kindof person that you were always
there, like paying attention towhat was happening and what
(43:42):
other people were asking, and Ifeel like we talked a lot about
the marketing stuff on the groupcalls anyway, organically.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
So no, I agree.
And marketing, I feel likethat's one of the things that
changes so rapidly.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
It does.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
I'll go back to you, like your marketing stuff, which
I definitely remember the first, you know couple of videos of.
You know, marketing is abouteducating and I actually brought
that into my marketing class,you know, this semester.
You know it's it's not aboutselling something, it's about
educating people and it's about,you know, making them aware
that they want what you have.
You know, and no, I think,going through it, I started out
(44:18):
and this is kind of my MO.
I started out very structured,right, I was, I was taking notes
, I was up every morning atthree, 30 in the morning doing
the videos before work, you know, and it was awesome.
Of course, I was in bed by likeeight of the night before.
But, um, and then, as I gotinto it and you know I don't
like to wait and implement likeI like to like I said, uh, fly
(44:39):
the plane as I'm building it.
Um, you know, make my mistakesand and figure things out.
Uh, you know I my mistakes andfigure things out.
You know, I told you, you know,last summer, when I did my
first like in-person event atthe Cape Cod, where I was like I
did this, this, this, and I'mlike I know those are all the
wrong things to do, but I had tounderstand why I shouldn't have
(45:01):
done that.
And I 100% understand.
Now, like like, why?
And just seeing you at, likeimaging and the way that you
were, you know, um, gathering,lead, uh, information and stuff
like that, I'm like, oh, that'swhat that looks like.
Or you know, if those are thelittle things like I pick up on,
um, you know that where, whereyou get that through
conversation, but so much isexperience.
(45:22):
Um, you know, and it's justwhether, whether you want for me
, like I'm one of those like Igreat, you know it didn't work
out this time and I don't haveanother opportunity for another
month.
I'm like, all right, I've gotother stuff I'm doing and you
know I don't need to get itright the first time and I think
that's a huge, I think that's awhole nother podcast, but, um,
no, I think that's that'simportant, because so many times
(45:44):
and I always say this like thisis how I teach people.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
I say here's all the mistakes I've made, here's the
way I've screwed it up, here'sthe way I think works the best.
And here's why you might go trythese other ways that I tried
and you might have to try themand realize that they are or are
not for you.
But you need to be a big enoughperson to realize, when you try
something, if I warn you, hey,there's this problem with this
thing that I did.
If you go do it and you see thesame problem for yourself, then
(46:09):
it's time to change.
And that is really freakingvaluable.
And that's how you learn thebest and that's how, honestly,
the people that I see make thebiggest strides in their
business are the people who arewilling to build the plane as
it's going right.
They're willing to try it, belike oh well, crap, that didn't
work.
I'm going to adjust that andtry it a different way.
Ooh, that worked a little bitbetter, but can I make it even
(46:30):
better?
And I think that's thedifference in people who make
big things out of their businessand the people that just sit
around listening to everypodcast, buying every course,
and they never do anythingbecause they're waiting for the
plane to be perfect before theytake off.
And you're never going to knowif the plane is working until
you're taking off.
(46:51):
Right, you just have tosometimes trust that.
What's the worst that canhappen if I fail?
What's the worst that can happen, right and you're not doing
open heart surgery, you're aphotographer.
The worst that can happen is ifyou're a photographer is like
you missed the first kiss oryour entire memory card is
corrupted from a wedding, likethat's worst case scenario.
(47:11):
Okay, that might feel life ordeath, but everything else is
fixable.
Everything else you can makeright for a client.
There's really not a whole lotof things that we can't make
right.
If we mess them up or if wecrash the plane, we're people
and we have to trust that peopleare going to know we're people.
So give yourself permissionanyone who's listening to this
to just do the thing and be okaywith the fact that you might
(47:33):
crash and you're going to beable to pick yourself up and go
again.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Well, that's super important because you know what
Best case scenario is, you getsome great stories out of it,
right?
I had set out on this table atthis baseball game because I was
sponsoring the team for theCape Cod Baseball League and I
had set up like hats and shirtsand stuff.
You know that I was selling onthere and I had, you know,
pamphlets and this and that andI had to go out and like, go
with my my little buddy and hehad to throw out the first pitch
(47:59):
, because I was supposed tothrow out the first pitch
because it was like my game.
I'm like there's no way I'mthrowing out a pitch in front of
all these people and you know,these potential major league, uh
, players, you know and so my mylittle buddy, I took him out
there and he did.
I came back and I'm like missinglike five hats, you know like.
I had like eight of them outthere and like more than half of
them were gone.
I'm like what the heck happened?
Well, somebody just came andthought they were free, you know
(48:20):
like, and just took them andwalked away and I hunted them
down later and got my hatchbackand it's just like.
You know what it's, it's it'sgood stories, it's, it's great.
You know, nobody likes a storyabout how the hero was perfect
from the start.
You know it's, it's.
You gotta fall, you gotta, yougotta get up and gotta keep
going, figure it out.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yeah, what would you say to someone who's thinking
about getting support in theirbusiness or even joining our
coaching program that we have?
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Do it, absolutely do it, because the worst thing, the
worst thing you could do in abusiness think that you know
everything and think that, nope,everything's fine right now,
even if you go through it andyou're like you know what, yeah,
this didn't really help me, or,or I don't agree with this, or
something else.
It's it's the cost of tuition,right.
Like it's not cost of tuition,right.
(49:07):
Like it's not just a go, goalong with something that you're
guaranteed is going to work,but go, go, try something out
that you realize.
Hey, you know what.
I'm not going to do that again,yeah.
But when it comes to likecoaching, especially like
working with you, I don't meanto like puff you up and but it
should, but you're there for theconversations.
Like you're it's not a call.
(49:28):
When we're doing theone-on-ones with you or doing
any of the other group things,it's not just you preaching the
entire time, it's it's you'retaking input in your problem
solving and you're hey, don't dothis, but hey, try this or this
.
You know there's plenty oftimes that I've, you know, come
on the calls and you were like,yeah, well, why do you think
(49:48):
that didn't work?
Or why what would youdifferently?
Or let's try this, especiallyin a niche that's different from
your own.
The building blocks of businessand communication are the same
whether you're dealing withhorses or whether you're dealing
with little league athletes, soit's a different you're going
to get or whether you're dealingwith you know little league
athletes, yeah, so it's adifferent.
You're going to get perspective.
(50:09):
You're going to get perspective, and perspective is always a
great thing Seeing somebodyelse's perspective, just knowing
that you don't know it all andthat you're just willing to get
a different perspective.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, I love that.
I think, like what you weredoing with your business was
different than what a lot of theother people were doing in
their businesses Whenever youjoined.
Like you were doing some volumestuff, you were doing portraits
, you were trying to find thisstyle that you wanted to do.
You were unsure how that wasgoing to work.
Like there were a lot of thingsin play and you know, I think
some of it was just trial anderror and figuring out where
(50:40):
your sweet spot was and figuringout how it fit into business,
but also how it fit into yourlife right, because your life in
having a job and having afamily and having kids to have
stuff going on and all thisstuff like figuring out how to
navigate, fitting it alltogether and making it work for
you.
And I feel like you've done sucha good job, finding a good
place now and with everything,like your life right now, of how
(51:02):
everything has transformedsince we met and since we
started working together, whichmakes me so happy to see how
this has evolved and all of thisgood stuff.
So I really love that aboutthis whole journey and it's
always fun watching you and Ilove watching you show up on
social media because I feel likeyou do such a good job at
putting your face out there andtalking and just doing the thing
.
If anyone wants to follow youon social media so they can see
(51:23):
these amazing videos that yousometimes post, how can they
follow you or how can they findyou online?
Speaker 3 (51:28):
Yeah, so it's Rob Faber Photography, you know, or
Rob Faber Photos.
I feel like it's different on,like everything, and I've
changed it a couple of times.
You just search up Rob Faberand you'll find me.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, you had a couple of brand iterations there
.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
I did and that was like again, all part of the
brain, I wasn't.
You just can't be afraid to belike, yeah, this isn't working
right now.
This doesn't work for me, andyou know what it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
I love that.
Well, it was so good having youon here.
I have one final question.
Okay, Okay, if you could goback in time and give yourself,
when you were starting yourbusiness, one 60 second piece of
advice, what would you go backand tell yourself Holy crap, 60
seconds, rob, I'm going to timeyou here.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
All right, don't try to be everybody's photographer.
That's, I think, the big thingthat I've learned is that you
have to follow your passion, youhave to do what you love to do,
try everything and then whittleit down, but don't take the
nose personally, you know.
Don't take the negativefeedback personally, you know
you and that's so much easiersaid than done, but you know you
(52:35):
can't please everybody and justknow that.
You know when a push comes toshove it's just not your client,
it's not a right fit for you Ilove that.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
that's a good piece of advice, I think, for people
who are starting out well.
So much for joining us, rob.
Hopefully some of y'alllistening to this have gotten
some golden nugget from ourconversation, or now you don't
feel as alone with where you'reon your journey.
Feel free to reach out to me,ask questions, reach out to Rob.
If there's something thatreally resonated with you, tell
him what it was, thank him forbeing here and I will see y'all
(53:03):
next week at Master your MindMoney and don't forget to join
our free Facebook groupPhotography Business Tune-Up
with Corinda Kay.
Thanks again and I'll see younext time.
Welcome to Mindset and Money Mastery for
Photographers the podcast.
We help overwhelmedphotographers make more money
while simplifying their businessby mastering their you guessed
it mindset and money.
Tune in each week for practicaland actionable tips to take
your photography business up anotch.
Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Okay, so today on the podcast, we have Rob.
Rob is one of my formercoaching clients and he has done
amazing things with hisbusiness.
He has done an incredible jobbuilding a network in his
community and connections with alot of people, which I think is
really amazing, and he is justalways, I feel, like putting
himself out there, showing upfor his business, putting the
(00:44):
work in, which I think tells alot about his work ethic and his
determination towards hisbusiness.
So, rob, why don't youintroduce yourself to everyone?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Sure, thank you for that.
Yeah, I'm Rob, located on theEast Coast.
I'm in Northern Connecticut andI have been doing photography,
I would say picked up a camera.
It's only been about probablyabout 20 years, business wise.
I started my business back in2017, when I started taking it a
(01:15):
little more seriously and forabout a year, people were kind
of like, hey, would you do ourfamily photos?
We'll give you money.
And I was like, yeah, ok, andI've always been in the public
sector as far as work wise, andso I've never, never, done
business stuff before.
I was very hesitant about doinga business.
(01:36):
My, my idea of photography, mypurpose for for that was just
catching, you know, my kids inaction and throughout their
lives growing up.
For me, I've always been drawnto photography and portraits.
Like I always loved going up,you know, in the attic in the
brown paper bags and finding theold photos you know of you know
(01:56):
, when my siblings and I wereyounger or my parents were
younger and things like that,and I just loved, like just
going through the piles ofphotos and stuff and I wanted my
kids to have that.
Of course, you know, thingschange and I realized when
people started, you knowoffering to pay money.
I could kind of expand what Iwas doing and I could upgrade in
(02:17):
my equipment and so it kind ofwas something that was just a
supplemental income to pay foritself About.
It started getting more andmore serious, you know, a couple
of years into it, and starteddoing seniors and more families.
Then I started doing, you know,headshots.
I kind of went into everything.
I know, everything I read andeverything I you know, watched
was, you know, fun niche andstick with that.
(02:39):
That just wasn't me.
It's still not me Like.
I have a style I like, butwhoever wants to, you know, kind
of jump in that style with me.
You know, whether it befamilies, seniors, sports, you
know is what I got really into,not so much the action stuff but
the portraits, the making.
You know kids look, look badassand dark, moody, you know edgy
(03:01):
stuff and yeah, that's kind ofkind of where we are.
And yeah, the funny thing aboutyou know, when I found you, you
know it wasn't that I waslooking for a business coach.
I wasn't looking, I wasn'tthinking I was, I knew I wasn't
doing everything right, but Ididn't think I was doing really
anything wrong.
And then I started listening toyour podcast and I was like
(03:23):
holy crap, I could be making alot more money, like there is a
lot more opportunity out here.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And so I remember you know scheduling a call and
getting on with you, and youwere like yeah we can make you
more money.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, okay.
So I think what's really uniqueand what's important to point
out here is that you wereworking a full-time job.
Yes, you were shooting aroundhow many sessions a year while
working your full-time job.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
About 120.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Okay, that's a lot for most people right, most
photographers don't shoot thatmuch volume.
So when you contacted me andyou were like, hey, I have a
real job, I'm also shooting 120sessions a year, I was like,
with the right tools here, ifyou can take what your clients
are spending with you now andquadruple whatever that might be
, that will be just next levelfor you, like that will change
(04:11):
everything.
So when you first contacted me,you were doing shoot and burn,
giving all the digitals, correct.
I was Yep and how much were youcharging at that time?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I would say by the time that we had connected, I
think it was like $500 a sessionand it was.
They got a lot for their money.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay, so do you mind sharing what kind of your
clients are spending now aroundDeVal?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, I would say on average.
We're looking at about like$1,800, $1,800 to $2,200 on
average.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So you effectively 4X'd about your client.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And I think there's still more growth there that's
waiting to happen.
I think you just need a bit oftime cooking everything to get
there.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Which is really cool to think about.
It's like you know, a year fromnow, you could be doubling that
again, so I really love that.
What was that transition like?
Going from giving all thedigitals to all of a sudden
having to say to your clientsyou're not getting all the
digitals anymore, you have tobuy your portraits.
What was that?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
It was a tough transition because you know,
with those, you know, let's say,a hundred sessions.
You know it was, I would say 80, 80 of those, 80% of those were
repeat clients.
You know that I'd worked with,you know, at least for two,
three years, and so some of them, you know, some of them, we, we
transitioned.
You know where I, especiallywhen I first started, I was like
(05:34):
hey, can you go through thiswith me?
I'm working on a new style.
I'm working on, you know, a newstructure, something that'll
benefit everybody.
Can you just kind of go through?
You know a couple of the uh,this, uh, uh, ips.
You know with me, you know, andthey were great about it, and
you know whether they boughtbecause they were just helping
me out or whether they liked theproduct.
But once they got like the, theprints and the and the products
(05:55):
and stuff, they were like holycrap, yeah, it's, it's different
.
Um, and it's funny.
You know, I, I, what you see iswhat you get with me, right, I,
I'm, I can bs all all you know,I, I, what you see is what you
get with me, right, I, I, I'm, Ican BS all all you know.
Um, you know about, aboutanything that we and I can talk,
and I can make small talk, butwhen I'm selling something or
when I'm providing something,like it has to be real, uh.
(06:17):
And so you know the big thingwas.
I remember, you know, uh, youknow, going through your courses
and you know the five steps towall art and the different
vendors and I remember, like youknow, four or five different
vendors that I would order justsome samples from, and you know,
samples for me are just thingsI can put on my wall.
(06:39):
And then once I like narroweddown where I wanted and I
printed one of my first you knowbig metal print which was like
a 30 by 40 for a client and itshowed up.
And of course I still haveeverything sent to me because I
have a tendency to sometimes putan order in wrong.
(07:00):
So I just I like to doublecheck still, but with this
vendor they had to come to meanyway.
There was no drop shipping.
And I opened it up and I lookedat it.
I was like holy crap, like thisis, this is very different.
It's one of those I was likewow, I didn't realize, like I
was that good, you know.
And and my clients were blownaway by it.
They loved it.
They ended up ordering likethree more pieces and yeah, like
(07:21):
, and so it's something that Ihad to see and I had to believe
that it was a difference makerand I and I go photos from years
ago and being able to touch itand being able to, you know,
(07:47):
pass it on and things like that,and so I really where I from
before my shoot and burn was notnecessarily because I thought
digitals were better, it's justbecause I didn't want to deal
with, you know, deal withclients and ordering prints.
And you know, you know, dealwith clients and ordering prints
(08:08):
and you know the uh, marking upand things like that.
And I just wanted to avoid that.
Um, and the time it takes, andit is time, you know.
So you know when you would,when you say, you know we go
through a process of how to, howdo you price?
You know your, your, yourproducts, things like that.
Time is a big factor in that.
You know, um, it's not just,you know, take, take your number
and times it by two or times itby three or whatever.
It's well, no, like, how much,how many, how many, how much
(08:30):
FaceTime do I have?
You know where.
You know we're doing thereveals, or you know we're doing
a follow-up reveal or somethinglike that.
You know all that.
All that plays a part.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
So I think that's a bighesitation for a lot of people.
They're like I am happy makingmy 500 bucks, giving them their
digitals and being done with myclients.
I don't have the time to doimage reveals, I don't have the
time to deal with wall art.
What would you say to them inresponse to that?
Like, is that worth it?
And really like, with how muchmore time versus how much more
(09:01):
money you're making.
Like, how does that all playout now in your life and in your
business?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
The time factor is huge, butyou have to find the value in
the time.
I love doing the revealsbecause it ends up being a game
for me.
Once we go through a bunch ofimages, I can already predict
whether they're going to likethe next image or not.
Or, or you know they, theycompletely, you know, go
opposite of what they've alreadybeen doing and it's just fun,
(09:27):
like you know, some clients likeuh, look away shots, you know
where.
They're not looking at thecamera, they're looking off, or
they're more in between, uh,pose shots.
Those are the ones I absolutelylove and some clients don't
love them at all.
So you know the reveals areimportant because it's you know,
I don't know I don't want todeliver.
You know half the a bunch ofphotos and half them you're not
(09:52):
going to like anyway.
You know I'm not going to takemy time to edit and and you know
you talk about time, right,like all the time that we take
to get their favorites and stuffor our favorites, which aren't
going to be theirs, but knowing,knowing that what I create gets
put on a wall or in an albumand it's going to be there on
their wall a long time likethat's, that's worth, it's worth
(10:12):
it, it's worth the time, andit's, and it's and it's and it's
worth the money.
And it doesn't always work outthat way either.
Like you know, you go through areveal and I've walked away
with people, you know, justdoing the minimum.
You know, whatever their studiocredit was, which I'm like
that's okay, because everyreveal like I learned something
about myself and I learned someway to do it better.
Yeah, regardless of how manyI've done, you know, so far,
(10:34):
yeah, so effectively.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
right, you can do a quarter of the sessions you were
doing before.
Right, you're spending an extra, maybe hour, two hours dealing
with the client with the newsystem.
But you're making four timesthe amount of money right so?
It's like yes, there is moretime spent, but there's a
(10:55):
happier client, there's a betterexperience and there's more
money in your pocket for thatmore time.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah, if you want to look atflat out time, absolutely You're
.
It's whether you're spendingthat time talking with somebody
and meeting them on their level,you know, and getting to know
them and them getting to knowyou versus rapid shooting.
You know, four nights a weekand my seniors this year, like I
, almost doubled my, uh, mysenior sessions in within one
(11:21):
year.
Like you, typically I'll go uplike $50, $100, you know, for
the those, those seven yearsthat I've been doing it, and
then this year I I almostdoubled.
I went up by, you know,probably about eighty percent um
and I had about, you know Ilost about a third of of um.
You know my total number, right, right, usually I'm around 45,
(11:45):
50.
This year I think I was at like35, which wasn't it's not a huge
drop off by any means, butthere was way more money there
and I had more time, more nightsto myself because I, you know,
I'm like, like most of us, likeI'll shoot just one session, you
know, a day, cause I want thatgolden hour.
You know, portrait lighting and, yeah, I mean it's, it's, I'm
(12:11):
not doing four sessions, youknow, a day and given, you know,
the first couple of ones crappylights and and and shooting
until, uh, you know, there is nolight, um, you know.
So, yeah, it's, it's time, andit's time and it's and it's
valuable time, because thoseclients, those 35 clients I
worked with, are no doubt goingto be either referrals or repeat
clients, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
How has your relationship with your clients
changed?
From shoot and burn you saidlike it was like quick, rapid,
four sessions a week type thing,versus now where you have more
time to focus on those clients.
Have you noticed a differencein the relationships with them?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I have and I always feel like I had a good
relationship with clients, evenup to the delivery.
You know, you see this all thetime, right?
Photographers get annoyed whenthey deliver their digital
gallery and they don't get aresponse.
You know, they don't even getlike, oh, this is amazing, you
know.
They just get nothing and a lotof times that was the end of my
relationship with them, youknow.
(13:12):
So, to be able to continue theexperience after the session and
know that you're not just thereto shoot their portraits but to
help them design and help them,you know, let them pull back
the curtain a little bit and letthem see, you know the wizard.
You know, as far as hey, thisis what I'm looking for, and you
narrowed down to these two orthese three photos, Let me give
you my opinion, you know, orthey'll be like hey, what's your
opinion?
What do you think about thisone?
You know, and so it's.
It's just a better experiencefor them.
They're I'm more involved,they're more involved, you know,
(13:34):
and they feel more comfortablewith their selections.
Because I got to tell you atleast 75%, 75% of my shoot and
burn clients never evendownloaded their photos, let
alone printed their photos.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
That's a very valuable point and I I see that
because I give my clientsdigital files for social media.
I agree, If I go look throughmy galleries, how many people
actually download the digitalfiles that they get with their
prints?
Half the people don't downloadthem.
No.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Then that just shows you like.
For me it was like, yeah, I wasgiving too much.
You mentioned this yesterday inyour, in your training, your
training.
But I always go back to thatfree sushi right, there's so
much there or they feel likethey've got so much for a little
bit of money that it's notvaluable to them.
It's not as appealing.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I have a fun question , as going through the image
reel process and sitting downand helping your clients pick
their favorite images changedthe way you shoot your sessions
100%, Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I make sure that I shoot first of all, both in
vertical and horizontal to avoidcropping and losing some detail
.
I shoot with the idea, with thepicture of an album page in
mind, and I shoot with the ideaof where that image, or where
that you know that portrait canhang Right.
No, I 100% has changed the wayI shoot, because it's not just
(14:58):
what is, what does it look like,you know, through on the back
of the screen, when can this beput Right?
There's plenty of times, likeduring a session, where I'll,
I'll shoot a set of images andI'll and I'll show the client.
I'll be like you know, thiswould look amazing, as like a
series of photos in an albumRight, or a set of photos on the
wall.
I look back and I'm like, yeah,like that's a great, like
(15:19):
planting a seed and and and youknow, and that I'm really
excited about it.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Right, you can see it in your head.
Yeah, okay.
So on that note, then has thesales process surprised you, as
you went through and learned thesales process and started to
implement it.
Is it what you thought it wasgoing to be, or is it different
than you expected?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
As far as you mean, like the sale, selling to the
client.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Like taking your client from the first point of
contact all the way to the end.
Did it happen the way youthought it would?
Or, once you got in the programand started learning the whole
process of how we get clients tobuy, did anything surprise you
there?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
No, a lot.
Well, yes, a lot of itsurprised me, because I am your
typical consumer, right, andshow me something, give me ads
that pop up all the time, youknow, and eventually they're,
they're gonna get me right.
And so, like a lot of the, alot of the things I look at for
my clients is how would I reactto this and what would I say,
(16:21):
you know?
And so I'm very critical as faras like, how I, how I approach
and how I, you know, plant thoseseeds.
I don't want to seem fake and Iwant to be genuine.
Um, and so learning that wholeprocess was was mind-blowing to
me, cause, like every episode,you know, or every piece I was
watching from your thing, I waslike, oh my God, that's me,
that's how they got me, that'show, that's why I bought this,
(16:42):
that's why I bought, you know,and you know, I came from
imaging and I, you know,purchased something and I'm like
God damn.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
It was that sales tactic that got me.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But it was seeing it in action and seeing the behind
the scenes, because that's how alot of my photography skills
work.
I didn't do a whole lot ofclasses and I did some of the
creative live stuff, but mostlyit was.
I loved when photographerswould post behind the scenes
stuff, because before the behindthe scenes stuff I'm always
sitting.
I'm like, all right, where theyput the light for that?
Where was the light facing youknow?
Did they have, you know, a filllight?
(17:19):
You know when they were outsideor were they using a reflector?
And so a lot of times it was melike, all right, I'll buy a
reflector, all right, I'll buy alight and try this out.
And then once that like thatkind of the the rage of behind
the scenes happened, I was like,oh, you say it's perfect.
I'm like that's all, it was onelight and it was right there,
and it was, you know, and you'remetering for the sky and I'm
(17:40):
like, okay, but so you know, togo back to that, though, like
the psychology of sales again,like I have to, I have to be
100% bought into it in order forme to sell it.
You know which kind of takes meback.
People are like, oh, why'd youget into photography?
I'm like, well, because Ididn't want to pay somebody else
to do it.
It was something I love to doand I didn't, you know, for me.
You know, I'm the kind of guylike I don't know if you can
hear it outside right now, butI've've always mowed my own lawn
(18:02):
and I've always chopped downtrees, but it's, it's one of
those.
I always did it because Ididn't want to pay somebody else
to do it.
Now it's well, my time isvaluable and you know what it's
actually cheaper for me to paysomebody versus the time it
(18:25):
takes for me to do it.
Or to, you know, find my kidsafter they run off and have them
help me and stuff.
So it's just a lot, lot less ofa headache.
And so I wanted to.
I want to provide a service.
That's that's, you know,convenient for people.
Yes, it's going to be expensive, but you know what it's going
to be expensive.
If you try to create these onyour own, you're going to have
to take time and learn and taketime and purchase, you know,
(18:47):
equipment, stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, I love that.
So what?
Out of the process oftransitioning to selling, was
there anything that stood out toyou that really, like,
surprised you the most?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Surprised me the most with the selling.
It's a good question, I would.
I would say, what I kind ofexpected and I and I think this
was more of a self fulfilledprophecy was, I think when I
first started doing it, peoplewere hesitant to, you know,
spend the money on the printswhich I again like I didn't.
Would I have done it?
No, would I have paid that muchmoney for it?
No, and so it was kind of likeyou know how can I expect them
(19:21):
to?
And then when they what wassurprising is when they did and
when I would.
What was great is when Iactually had samples, just
prints that I would, I would doof clients or of my family and
have them in studio, because Ihave a small studio in the back
part of my house here, which isthe old.
This room that you see here isactually on paper as the master
suite.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Your business took over your master suite.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
It was never the master suite.
So when we moved in fulldisclosure I didn't kick my wife
out of the room and move allthe stuff out, no, it's like a
big part of the house, that'slike two rooms and we used it as
the kids' playroom.
When we moved in here, our kidswere younger, my wife wanted
all the bedrooms on the secondfloor, so there was three
bedrooms upstairs, soeverybody's upstairs, and so
once I kind of changed this allup and everything, I was, you
(20:08):
know, I'm like this is cool,like I can actually shoot some
stuff in here, I can do myportrait stuff that I love, all
my artificial light Plus I canbring clients in.
Now, and I think that was thatwas.
I think the aha moment for mewas when I could actually have
them here.
You know, as I'm taking picturesof their kid, they're looking
around at the photos on the wall, the different you know stuff I
(20:30):
have, you know, deliberatelyaround at the photos on the wall
, the different stuff I havedeliberately laid out so they
can see what a fine art matfinish mounted looks like and
feels like, versus me justtelling them this is what I do
when you have the floppy glossypaper sitting there versus this
beautiful fine art mat paper.
It's different.
It different and that's that'swhat kind of I think that's
(20:52):
that's.
The biggest thing thatsurprised me was the ability to
for them to see it, to then buyinto it more, which again go
back to me and like that's 100what I would do, like I need to
see stuff, for me to purchasesomething.
It's typically I researched ita lot and looked at the
competitors and seen like I'mnot one to rent and then buy.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I like to use the old , you know the whole free
returns after you know we're in30 days.
But no, I like to have it andplay with it and then decide.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, I feel like you shared something important
there, which was that in thebeginning you didn't really you
were hesitant because youweren't sure if anybody would
spend the money right, and so Ithink you had this hesitation
going into it with those firstseveral clients that you were
like, okay, I know there's abetter way, I believe in this
because I think it's valuable,but I don't know if I would do
(21:42):
it, and so it took that likeactually just doing it to change
your mindset.
First, because the clients cantotally tell when we're doing
something and we have thehesitation in the back of our
mind, it will kick us in thebutt time and time again,
because our clients feel it,they see it, they're like this
guy's trying to sell mesomething that he doesn't even
act like he's excited about.
Why am I going to buy it fromhim?
(22:04):
And I think that is so, soimportant to acknowledge and
just to point out that ifanyone's dealing with that, you
have to do that, work yourselfon your brain and on your
mindset, to try so hard, goinginto those first several reveals
to be like my clients are goingto love this, they're going to
want to buy it.
My clients are going to love it.
They're going to buy it Overand over and over again in your
head.
And psych yourself out of thatweird, funky mentality, because
(22:27):
it is the easiest way tosabotage yourself.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Going into the world and that's you know.
Don't sell something that youknow you wouldn't want and you
know that you wouldn't want tohang in your house or or or have
on display or something likethat.
You know it's.
I'm only selling products thatI want to, that I would put in,
you know, in my home.
You know which.
I know that that's definitelynarrows it down, but it makes it
a lot easier to sell and itmakes it more genuine.
(22:52):
Which people want to buy frompeople.
You know they, they, they wantto buy because they know that,
um, you know you're using what'shanging up in their house is
going to be what's hanging up inyour house.
Right, you know you go to yourmechanic like, well, what kind
of car do you drive?
You know, you know that kind ofthing.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, I love that.
Okay, so tell me this what isyour favorite thing to
personally sell Like?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
what is your favorite thing that, when a client buys
it, you're like yes, I would sayan album, and it's funny
because it's the last album Isold.
I designed the whole thing andthen the client wanted to go
through it with me and likeredesign it and I kind of we did
a reveal and this was somebodywho was an over lover and had
way too many images, and so Ilegit like just built the album
(23:36):
with you know, a hundred imagesin it, and I told her I go,
listen, it's too big, I go, butI want you to see what it looks
like.
You know, because I they couldget the uh, the proof, you know,
on uh online and I'm like Ijust want you to go through and
I want you to eliminate right,there's going to be a couple of
things that, a couple ofpictures that look the same.
You know, that are uh, I don't,you couldn't narrow it down,
but maybe if you have an albumyou can see what you know what
(23:58):
they look like and uh.
So when we met again, shereally wanted to go through and
design together and it was likeanother like two hours together,
which, again, like I didn'thave a problem with because I
knew whatever she was going toget, it was what she and I built
together.
You know it wasn't going to bea.
Yeah, I don't know why youchose this picture, I don't know
(24:21):
why this one really didn't workhere.
And you know well, when it comesto the albums it's they're
getting a whole lot of eight bytens, five by sevens, you know,
in one place on beautiful, in abeautiful, you know compact, big
album.
So the price point pricepoint's high but the value is
higher and then the time thatgoes into it is is is super,
(24:43):
super valuable and we and againit's another opportunity to just
keep building connections.
You know this person's alreadyreferred me to three other
clients, you know.
So it pays dividends, you know,and not for the purpose of
getting those, you knowdividends.
But if you go into it lookingat like, oh well, if I'm really
nice to her, maybe I'll get more, no, you gotta be, it's gotta
(25:04):
be what you like to do.
If you're not a people person,then you know, if you're the
introvert behind the camera thatdoesn't like to deal with
clients, then good luck.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, it's funny.
We had this conversation when Iwas doing Bethany's podcast
interview.
We talked a little bit aboutintrovert thing.
Like I actually consider myselfan introvert.
Bethany was sharing that sheconsiders herself an introvert.
So if I walk into a big roomfull of people, I kind of like
freak out and I'm like I don'tknow what to do and I'm like I
don't know what to do.
I don't know who to talk to,but one-on-one I'm good.
So I would say don't use yourintrovertedness as an excuse not
(25:35):
to go talk to people, becauseeven introverts are normally
okay one-on-one right.
It's the big group crowdsituations that freak introverts
out.
And I think the other thing isthat sometimes you have to learn
tools to talk to people and todeal with people.
To talk to people and to dealwith people and that's something
like even inside the coachingprogram like I'm always sharing.
Like here's this way that youcan say something to somebody
(25:55):
that's going to get them to openup.
Or here's this method you canuse to ask that question that's
going to make it sound easy.
Here's this method to connectwith a stranger in public right,
and taking those tools and thatknowledge on how to communicate
and how to talk to people andthen also making it your own,
because if I teach Rob some wayto ask a question, rob's going
to ask the question differentlythan I am and differently than
(26:18):
Corey or Austin or someone else,and so understanding I think
the reason and the logic behindthe things we do in our business
is so valuable.
And then taking those thingsand making them your own,
because Rob and I speak verydifferently but Rob and I now
use the same kind of frameworkto have conversations but the
conversations flow slightlydifferently, but the logic and
(26:40):
the reason behind thoseconversations we have all point
to the end result.
So I think that's really,really important to remember.
What would you say, rob?
The journey of like goingthrough and figuring out how to
like figure out those scripts ofwhat to say and when to say
them to clients, or figuring outhow to navigate that.
All of the steps along the wayand me saying, like here's the
purpose of it.
(27:00):
Now you have to figure out howto make it work for you.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
It was tough because initially it was.
I felt like I was even, youknow as well as I knew it, I was
still scripted and for me, I'mthe most unscripted person
you'll ever meet.
You know, I'm a teacher as well.
That's my, my full-time careerand even that, like my lessons,
(27:24):
I know the objective of what I,you know what I want to get
across, how it's going to bedelivered.
I don't know until I getfeedback from the students.
Right, and it's a similar thingwith with clients is I don't,
I'm not going to sit here and ifI realize that I had a body
experience and I sit and look atmyself and I'm like, dude,
you're talking too much, Like Ihave to stop and ask a question,
like I can't stand hearingmyself talk for for, you know,
(27:48):
an extended period of time, youknow, and I cause I again, when
somebody does that to me and I'mjust like sitting there, uh-huh
, uh-huh, uh-huh, I don't hearanything.
You know, if you're, if I'm notengaged in it, if I'm not
contributing, like I'm, I'm notlistening, you know.
And so I think the big thingabout you know, having a script,
you know and I use that termlightly is is you have to.
(28:08):
You can't disregard your ownpersonality, you know, and your
ability to talk to people.
You, you have to not only giveinformation, but you have to get
information.
You have to, as I said, youhave to interview them, you know
.
You have to ask them questions,what they want.
Let them start talking, youknow.
Let them let them kind of tellyou and then, depending on what
they say, is is when you guidethat conversation.
(28:30):
It's not easy and when Istarted doing it, you know where
it was more like a script and Iwanted to get through it.
I struggled and I abandoned itvery quickly because I'm one of
those like I'm not going tostick with something that I feel
is not working.
Like I'm not.
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And I think that happens, like I think people so.
In my journey, whenever I waslearning how to like have these
conversations with clients, Iwent through so many courses or
had coaches that would just pickhere's the script you need to
use, here's the price list youneed to use, and I would use it
for a while and then I would belike wait hold on what's
happening.
I'm reading off of a piece ofpaper, talking to somebody, and
(29:06):
then I started to wonder likeokay, I've noticed there's these
trends, there's these thingsthat people are telling me I
need to say or do.
But why are they telling me todo these things?
Why are they telling me to askthese stupid questions that seem
just like cut and paste thesame bull crap but doesn't sound
like me?
Why are they telling me to dothese things?
And then I started looking atthose things and realizing there
was a purpose behind why theywere doing that and saying, okay
(29:28):
, now I need to figure out howto turn this into a real
conversation, and now I need tofigure out how to turn this next
part into a real conversationon this and this, on a real
conversation.
And I think when you're learningto have those conversations you
kind of feel like and itdepends on your personality.
I see some people that they'relike they learn the stuff, they
make their script and they'relike trying to stick to it,
because they're like I have todo the thing and I have to
follow the steps.
(29:48):
I have to be a good student.
And then you have to realizethat it's not just a script,
it's a deeper, deeperunderstanding of the
conversation that's happeningand learn how to flow through
that naturally, because then itfeels organic and it feels like
a real conversation with afriend and not just the
telemarketer that's sittingthere reading the phone script
(30:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
And I think that's really important.
Yeah, and and teaching is thesame thing.
There's I work with people thathere's the lesson plan.
They have to get through it in45 minutes and, regardless of
what any kid says or does, like,they're going to say what they
need to say and they're going tohave them do the work that they
need to work, do the whateverwork they have to do, and I've
never been able to do that.
(30:30):
It's always I teach in aconversation.
You know format, you know Ineed engagement.
I need to know that peoplearen't bored with me.
I need to know that my messageis getting across and whether
that's in the classroom orwhether that's, you know,
educating on, you know what theexperience working with me is
like.
They're equally important.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Okay.
So I have a side note here, aquestion, I guess.
I always say that, like most ofour job is really, we're
educating our clients throughoutour process, and I always like
to say, when you educate someoneon something, you have to say
the same thing a lot ofdifferent ways and in a lot of
different styles, because somepeople are auditory learners,
(31:10):
some people learn by seeing thewords, some people learn by
answering questions about it.
Right?
So the process and the way Ialways think about it is my
process with my client.
I'm teaching them and educatingthem along the way as we go, so
that way, by the time we get tothe image reveal, they know
what it is they want to get,they know the answer to the
question and they're able tomake an educated decision on
(31:32):
that topic.
So, as a teacher, do you seekind of the similarities between
the process with their clients?
Now, now that I don't know ifyou've ever thought about it
like that, but do you seesimilarities there?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Absolutely.
I mean, yes, like so, you know,in the classroom we have every.
Every kid is a different typeof learner, right, you know, you
have your kinesthetics, youhave your, you know your tactile
, your auditory, your visualright, and so our lessons have
to have to encompass all ofthose learning styles.
And, and it's the same thing,like you said, we're we're
(32:06):
educating our clients and so,yeah, I have to deliver them
information in different ways.
It's like when you get a, youknow, a lead form, do you text,
do you email, do you call?
Right, you know, yeah, I mightemail you and text you to let
you know that I'm going to call,because you know you may.
Number one I'm not.
I'm a very tactile person,Hence the whole.
(32:27):
I have to show you what theseproducts look like no-transcript
(33:15):
.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I'm just so bad I cannot write.
My A's mom and he was just likeI'm a terrible at writing my
letters, and I looked at him andwas like, well, you know, once
upon a time I was really bad atwriting my letters too, but I
worked on it and I got betterand now I don't even have to
think about it and it seems sosimple and basic.
(33:36):
But everything we've ever donein our life was hard until we
did it over and over and overagain.
But we get to choose whetherwe're the four-year-old sitting
on the ground throwing a fitbecause it's hard or if we're
going to put on our big kidpanties and do it again, over
and over and over again.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
I think there's this really badbelief in the photography
industry that you can just senda bunch of emails to your
(33:58):
clients and send them a bunch ofprep guides to read and that
they're going to understand andknow what to expect.
And I think that that is one ofthe worst things that happened
to me in the early years of mybusiness was just relying and
depending on the fact thatclients were going to actually
read the information and retainthat information right.
So that's whenever I reallystarted having conversations
(34:20):
with people and that's when Istarted asking questions of my
clients, both verbally andwritten, on a form that they
would fill out right.
And so I have also learnedthings like sometimes I write
things in a paragraph form Onetime I say it, the next time I
write it I will list it inbullet points and I will say the
same thing two different ways,because some people will never
(34:41):
read the bullet points and somepeople will never read the
paragraphs.
So it's about over-educatingour clients in this way that
everybody learns in theircertain way, and hopefully we've
kind of touched on all thosepoints.
So I really think that's animportant thing to point out
here especially.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Absolutely.
It's with anything.
You know, whatever you put outthere and this goes on so many
different levels you putsomething out there once and we
have this assumption that it's100% it's going to be retained
by the recipient and it's not.
I'll go back to the classroomagain.
(35:18):
I understand that, whatever I'mtalking about, that specific
day, I'm hoping 50% of themcatch on to it.
I'm not even saying 50% of themretain everything.
I just want to spark somethingand for them to be able to come
back to that if they need to.
And the next day I hope I hitanother 20%, another 20% the
(35:38):
next day.
The worst thing we can do isassume that everybody is going
to get our message in the exactsame way, because it's just not
going to happen.
That idea that we put somethingon social media, we do a post
and we think that great,everybody saw that.
All 3,000, 5,000, 10,000followers saw that one.
So I shouldn't post that againor I shouldn't reference that
(36:00):
again.
No, you have to do it in adifferent way.
Whether you do it in a reel orwhether you do it in a carousel
or something else.
It's got to be repetitive, butin different formats.
I think that's a big downfallof a lot of people is they think
you know, well, I emailed, youknow like, yeah, man, I get a
lot of emails, shoot me a text,you know, call me, you know,
send me a message on, like giveme a lot of different ways that
(36:24):
I can't avoid you.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Like give me a lot of different ways that I can't
avoid you.
Okay, so I have a question Inthe classroom teaching, is there
like a magic number that y'allsay like this is how many times
the average student has to likehear something or interact with
a specific thing to actuallylearn it?
Like, is there a magic numberthere that they use?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Magic number, not so much.
But they have, like differentlevels of you know, depending on
the curriculum or depending onthe program.
You know, sometimes it's a hey,this is just an introductory
thing.
Then you're going to say, seeit again in this unit, and then
they're going to expect them toknow it by this unit.
Unfortunately, in our educationsystem they assume two or three
(36:59):
times and they should have it.
That's not how it works.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, and so, like I say, and from the marketing
world, they say in order to buysomething you have to be see it
eight times.
So I think like that meanstheir awareness takes at least
eight times of hearing somethingor seeing something.
And because we're so constantlybombarded, I think the number
is really a lot higher now.
So I say like 15 times.
If we talk about it or shareabout it 15 times, then we
(37:26):
should be guaranteed that ourclients know what to expect.
If we only do it eight times,we're probably going to end up
with a client here and there.
That's like what, what'shappening?
I didn't read any of that stuff, I didn't pay any attention to
that.
I just put a random letter inthat form.
So I think you have to kind ofover-educate sometimes and feel
like you're overdoing it withyour clients a lot of times.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Well, right, and I think too it's.
You know the style guides andthe other thing you're talking
about before it.
They're not bad things.
I don't think we abandon those,it's just know that.
That's just one touchpoint,right, that's just one thing.
And go back and reference it,you know, in another thing, you
know, so they can try to connectand say, oh wait, I did get
(38:09):
that email.
Let me look back on that.
You know I've done that plentyof times with your stuff, like
just looking for the Zoom links.
I'll do that.
I'm like I know she sentsomething out like three times.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And yeah, I mean that's the truth of the life we
live in and the world we live in.
Okay, so tell everyone kind ofwhat it was like as you were
going through our program likeMaster your Mind and Money.
So you walk through courses,you have group calls, you have
one-on-one support.
What was that journey like foryou, going through the process,
and how would you explain it tosomebody who's like?
What is it even like to be inCorinda's circle and to work
with Corinda?
Speaker 3 (38:45):
It's, it's a lot.
Number one like it's it's a lot, like there's a lot of material
out there and it's easy to getoverwhelmed.
I would say you organized itvery well and you were very
specific as to like, don't jumparound.
You know, start here.
You know, and, and I would saythe like the group calls and
especially the one-on-ones, likethat was, you know, from a
(39:05):
teacher student perspective.
Like I wanted to make sure Iwas prepared, right, I wanted to
make sure I was, you know, notnot so much of like getting a
bad grade, but man, I just Ijust spent some money.
Like I want to make sure I'mgetting what I, you know what I
paid for.
Like I want to make sure I'musing it, which you know, how
many times have we subscribed tosomething you know and it's
just a website of you knowvideos and stuff like that, and
(39:27):
you look at it once or twice andyou don't go back to it.
I think you know you, you havea good accountability system.
You know that in place and itreally helps you going forward.
And, you know, coming to thoseone-on-ones or those group
meetings, you know, withquestions ahead of time, even if
you were, you know we were toask them in the Facebook group
or or something else.
You know, just seeing somebodyelse's response from there, you
(39:49):
know, trigger something.
You know it's not about, it'snot about getting all the
answers, you know, it's aboutkind of just lighting that fire
in a sometimes the samedirection, sometimes a different
direction, to get you get yourmind thinking differently.
And you know, get you get yourmind thinking differently.
And you know the big thing thatyou did, I mean, and you've,
(40:12):
I've completely gone into thewhole mindset thing and you said
you just talked about before,about Kai, and you know how I'm
terrible at this the negativeself-talk, like we don't even.
How do we learn that?
Right, how do we learn that?
You know, when we try somethingand it's hard, we get down on
ourselves, right, like thinkingmore about it's just, it's an
opportunity, and I'm notexpecting the four-year-old to
do that, but I'm saying for us,you know, when we lose a client,
(40:34):
or when we or lose a lead andwe're, you know we don't have a,
the client doesn't come back,or something like that.
You know, instead of you know,thinking negative oh I screwed
up, I screwed up, I screwed up,you know it's or even putting
the blame on them, like, well,you know that's, you know
they're whatever.
You know, looking inward andseeing all right, what could I
(40:54):
have done differently?
What?
What did I say?
What did I?
What did I not pick up on, youknow?
Or did it just flat out, whichI've become very good at.
It's just not my client right,like and and that's that's
probably the been the biggestshift from my first, you know,
five years in business, thinkingthat I have to be everybody's
(41:15):
photographer.
I want to be everybody'sphotographer, I want to be the
most popular photographer around, like I want to do.
Yeah, I'll do that, I'll dothat, I'll do that.
Right To no, I'm not.
I don't think we're a good fit,you know.
No, you know I'm not.
I haven't done that before andI'm not really doesn't really
interest me, you know or no,that's great.
That so-and-so down, you know,in the next town, will do it for
$300 cheaper.
I'm like then work with them,you know, being able to let go
(41:40):
and being able to understandthat you know you're not for
everybody and everybody's notfor you.
That was a huge, huge takeawayfrom the work we did together.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
It's amazing.
It's so interesting to hear,when I ask people this question,
to hear how differenteveryone's perspectives on this
are.
Like what their big thing thatthey really say like this is the
one thing that I grasp ontothat helped change the way I
looked at my business.
Okay, so I have a question.
I love asking this how much ofthe course videos did you
actually watch?
Did you watch most of them ordid you skip around a lot?
(42:16):
Did you do the thing I told younot to do and you did actually
skip around?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
So I stayed on track right.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
You're the A plus student, Rob.
That's why.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
No, no, no.
Well, I wasn't finished, Istayed on track.
And then I think, once thevideos got like 60 minutes and
like 75 minutes, the marketingvideos.
Yeah, I think it was themarketing that I stopped and I
was just relying more on thegroup chats and I was realizing
I was definitely doing more andI had more like in the moment
questions and things like that.
I think not that your contentwasn't wasn't good, it was just
(42:54):
I was.
I feel like I just neededsomething else at that point and
I just and it.
Once you fall out of it, it'shard to like jump back in.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, it's funny.
I have people sometimes thatwill come through the program
and they like barely watch anyvideos but they show up to every
group call and they askquestions and they're always
doing their one-on-ones andthey're just like, and they get
so much out of it without evenwatching the stuff.
And then I have other peoplethat are like they're like
dedicated, like they have aschedule of how they're going to
attack everything and they getit done and they will sit and
(43:21):
watch those videos like they'rein a college lecture.
So it's always fun to heardifferent perspectives from
people of like you can show upto the calls and you can get as
much out and you can just watchthe course.
I have some people that justwatch the courses and hardly
ever show up to the group calls,and so I think it's really
interesting.
But I would say you weredefinitely like a show up and
listen on the group calls kindof person that you were always
there, like paying attention towhat was happening and what
(43:42):
other people were asking, and Ifeel like we talked a lot about
the marketing stuff on the groupcalls anyway, organically.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
So no, I agree.
And marketing, I feel likethat's one of the things that
changes so rapidly.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
It does.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
I'll go back to you, like your marketing stuff, which
I definitely remember the first, you know couple of videos of.
You know, marketing is abouteducating and I actually brought
that into my marketing class,you know, this semester.
You know it's it's not aboutselling something, it's about
educating people and it's about,you know, making them aware
that they want what you have.
You know, and no, I think,going through it, I started out
(44:18):
and this is kind of my MO.
I started out very structured,right, I was, I was taking notes
, I was up every morning atthree, 30 in the morning doing
the videos before work, you know, and it was awesome.
Of course, I was in bed by likeeight of the night before.
But, um, and then, as I gotinto it and you know I don't
like to wait and implement likeI like to like I said, uh, fly
(44:39):
the plane as I'm building it.
Um, you know, make my mistakesand and figure things out.
Uh, you know I my mistakes andfigure things out.
You know, I told you, you know,last summer, when I did my
first like in-person event atthe Cape Cod, where I was like I
did this, this, this, and I'mlike I know those are all the
wrong things to do, but I had tounderstand why I shouldn't have
(45:01):
done that.
And I 100% understand.
Now, like like, why?
And just seeing you at, likeimaging and the way that you
were, you know, um, gathering,lead, uh, information and stuff
like that, I'm like, oh, that'swhat that looks like.
Or you know, if those are thelittle things like I pick up on,
um, you know that where, whereyou get that through
conversation, but so much isexperience.
(45:22):
Um, you know, and it's justwhether, whether you want for me
, like I'm one of those like Igreat, you know it didn't work
out this time and I don't haveanother opportunity for another
month.
I'm like, all right, I've gotother stuff I'm doing and you
know I don't need to get itright the first time and I think
that's a huge, I think that's awhole nother podcast, but, um,
no, I think that's that'simportant, because so many times
(45:44):
and I always say this like thisis how I teach people.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
I say here's all the mistakes I've made, here's the
way I've screwed it up, here'sthe way I think works the best.
And here's why you might go trythese other ways that I tried
and you might have to try themand realize that they are or are
not for you.
But you need to be a big enoughperson to realize, when you try
something, if I warn you, hey,there's this problem with this
thing that I did.
If you go do it and you see thesame problem for yourself, then
(46:09):
it's time to change.
And that is really freakingvaluable.
And that's how you learn thebest and that's how, honestly,
the people that I see make thebiggest strides in their
business are the people who arewilling to build the plane as
it's going right.
They're willing to try it, belike oh well, crap, that didn't
work.
I'm going to adjust that andtry it a different way.
Ooh, that worked a little bitbetter, but can I make it even
(46:30):
better?
And I think that's thedifference in people who make
big things out of their businessand the people that just sit
around listening to everypodcast, buying every course,
and they never do anythingbecause they're waiting for the
plane to be perfect before theytake off.
And you're never going to knowif the plane is working until
you're taking off.
(46:51):
Right, you just have tosometimes trust that.
What's the worst that canhappen if I fail?
What's the worst that can happen, right and you're not doing
open heart surgery, you're aphotographer.
The worst that can happen is ifyou're a photographer is like
you missed the first kiss oryour entire memory card is
corrupted from a wedding, likethat's worst case scenario.
(47:11):
Okay, that might feel life ordeath, but everything else is
fixable.
Everything else you can makeright for a client.
There's really not a whole lotof things that we can't make
right.
If we mess them up or if wecrash the plane, we're people
and we have to trust that peopleare going to know we're people.
So give yourself permissionanyone who's listening to this
to just do the thing and be okaywith the fact that you might
(47:33):
crash and you're going to beable to pick yourself up and go
again.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Well, that's super important because you know what
Best case scenario is, you getsome great stories out of it,
right?
I had set out on this table atthis baseball game because I was
sponsoring the team for theCape Cod Baseball League and I
had set up like hats and shirtsand stuff.
You know that I was selling onthere and I had, you know,
pamphlets and this and that andI had to go out and like, go
with my my little buddy and hehad to throw out the first pitch
(47:59):
, because I was supposed tothrow out the first pitch
because it was like my game.
I'm like there's no way I'mthrowing out a pitch in front of
all these people and you know,these potential major league, uh
, players, you know and so my mylittle buddy, I took him out
there and he did.
I came back and I'm like missinglike five hats, you know like.
I had like eight of them outthere and like more than half of
them were gone.
I'm like what the heck happened?
Well, somebody just came andthought they were free, you know
(48:20):
like, and just took them andwalked away and I hunted them
down later and got my hatchbackand it's just like.
You know what it's, it's it'sgood stories, it's, it's great.
You know, nobody likes a storyabout how the hero was perfect
from the start.
You know it's, it's.
You gotta fall, you gotta, yougotta get up and gotta keep
going, figure it out.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yeah, what would you say to someone who's thinking
about getting support in theirbusiness or even joining our
coaching program that we have?
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Do it, absolutely do it, because the worst thing, the
worst thing you could do in abusiness think that you know
everything and think that, nope,everything's fine right now,
even if you go through it andyou're like you know what, yeah,
this didn't really help me, or,or I don't agree with this, or
something else.
It's it's the cost of tuition,right.
Like it's not cost of tuition,right.
(49:07):
Like it's not just a go, goalong with something that you're
guaranteed is going to work,but go, go, try something out
that you realize.
Hey, you know what.
I'm not going to do that again,yeah.
But when it comes to likecoaching, especially like
working with you, I don't meanto like puff you up and but it
should, but you're there for theconversations.
Like you're it's not a call.
(49:28):
When we're doing theone-on-ones with you or doing
any of the other group things,it's not just you preaching the
entire time, it's it's you'retaking input in your problem
solving and you're hey, don't dothis, but hey, try this or this
.
You know there's plenty oftimes that I've, you know, come
on the calls and you were like,yeah, well, why do you think
(49:48):
that didn't work?
Or why what would youdifferently?
Or let's try this, especiallyin a niche that's different from
your own.
The building blocks of businessand communication are the same
whether you're dealing withhorses or whether you're dealing
with little league athletes, soit's a different you're going
to get or whether you're dealingwith you know little league
athletes, yeah, so it's adifferent.
You're going to get perspective.
(50:09):
You're going to get perspective, and perspective is always a
great thing Seeing somebodyelse's perspective, just knowing
that you don't know it all andthat you're just willing to get
a different perspective.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, I love that.
I think, like what you weredoing with your business was
different than what a lot of theother people were doing in
their businesses Whenever youjoined.
Like you were doing some volumestuff, you were doing portraits
, you were trying to find thisstyle that you wanted to do.
You were unsure how that wasgoing to work.
Like there were a lot of thingsin play and you know, I think
some of it was just trial anderror and figuring out where
(50:40):
your sweet spot was and figuringout how it fit into business,
but also how it fit into yourlife right, because your life in
having a job and having afamily and having kids to have
stuff going on and all thisstuff like figuring out how to
navigate, fitting it alltogether and making it work for
you.
And I feel like you've done sucha good job, finding a good
place now and with everything,like your life right now, of how
(51:02):
everything has transformedsince we met and since we
started working together, whichmakes me so happy to see how
this has evolved and all of thisgood stuff.
So I really love that aboutthis whole journey and it's
always fun watching you and Ilove watching you show up on
social media because I feel likeyou do such a good job at
putting your face out there andtalking and just doing the thing
.
If anyone wants to follow youon social media so they can see
(51:23):
these amazing videos that yousometimes post, how can they
follow you or how can they findyou online?
Speaker 3 (51:28):
Yeah, so it's Rob Faber Photography, you know, or
Rob Faber Photos.
I feel like it's different on,like everything, and I've
changed it a couple of times.
You just search up Rob Faberand you'll find me.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, you had a couple of brand iterations there
.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
I did and that was like again, all part of the
brain, I wasn't.
You just can't be afraid to belike, yeah, this isn't working
right now.
This doesn't work for me, andyou know what it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
I love that.
Well, it was so good having youon here.
I have one final question.
Okay, Okay, if you could goback in time and give yourself,
when you were starting yourbusiness, one 60 second piece of
advice, what would you go backand tell yourself Holy crap, 60
seconds, rob, I'm going to timeyou here.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
All right, don't try to be everybody's photographer.
That's, I think, the big thingthat I've learned is that you
have to follow your passion, youhave to do what you love to do,
try everything and then whittleit down, but don't take the
nose personally, you know.
Don't take the negativefeedback personally, you know
you and that's so much easiersaid than done, but you know you
(52:35):
can't please everybody and justknow that.
You know when a push comes toshove it's just not your client,
it's not a right fit for you Ilove that.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
that's a good piece of advice, I think, for people
who are starting out well.
So much for joining us, rob.
Hopefully some of y'alllistening to this have gotten
some golden nugget from ourconversation, or now you don't
feel as alone with where you'reon your journey.
Feel free to reach out to me,ask questions, reach out to Rob.
If there's something thatreally resonated with you, tell
him what it was, thank him forbeing here and I will see y'all
(53:03):
next week at Master your MindMoney and don't forget to join
our free Facebook groupPhotography Business Tune-Up
with Corinda Kay.
Thanks again and I'll see younext time.
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