November 5, 2025 • 44 mins
Living a life of integrity means showing up whole and in alignment with your values, no matter what life throws your way. It can be especially difficult to stay centered in who you want to be during periods of life that feel uncertain and you’re stepping into the unknown, yet that is when being true to yourself matters most. Having a moral compass supports resilience, clarity, and strength to take the next indicated step forward as you navigate the unpredictability of life. It creates not only stability in uncertainty but also builds a lasting legacy.
In this episode of Mindset Unlimited, I invited F. John Potter to join me in a conversation about what supports living life with integrity and navigating unexpected career changes.
- Some of what we talk about in this episode includes:
- Being open to the unexpected
- Decision-making with the support of friends
- Courage and defining enough
- Navigating unemployment
- The accumulation of skills
(This is a replay episode with a new intro and re-added content around the 20 minute mark.)
LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE:
Leaning Into a Mid-Life Career Change
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Valerie Friedlander (00:06):
Hello, my friends and welcome to a replay
episode of Mindset unlimited.
Mindset tips, tools andinspiration for women in a time
of change. I'm your host.
Valerie Friedlander, ICFcertified coach, sociologist,
intersectional feminist artist,mom and nerd, and today we are
talking about living life withintegrity. This is a replay of
(00:28):
an episode from season threeentitled resilience through
unexpected career shifts. Thisepisode is particularly special
to me because it is an interviewthat I did with my father, Frank
John Potter, who passed away onOctober 17 of this year. I
decided to replay this episode,partly in memory of him and his
(00:54):
recent passing, and also becauseI was going through it to help
me write his obituary, and goingthrough all of the messages that
I have received from peoplewhose lives he touched, and
something really stood out to meas I was reviewing all of this,
and it was how much he lived hisLife with integrity. I've talked
(01:19):
about integrity before andbriefly, what it means is really
wholeness. It is like an integerlike it is a whole ness of
being. And that's how he showedup. I found a little slip of
paper in his wallet as I wasgoing through all of the things
as one does, and the paper said,do all aspects of your life bear
(01:45):
the same witness? And I thinkhis did, and I think now more
than ever, it's a really helpfulexample. I know it is for me of
thinking about how I show upwith everything going on, it's
so easy to get caught up inawful things and then feel like,
(02:09):
well, I want to not lose sightof the happy things, of the
joyful things, and how all ofthat goes together in a whole
experience of life and how Ishow up true to myself and the
person that I want to be, andit's challenging. So one of the
(02:33):
tools that I recommend forpeople when we're working
together is we reflect on whathas been available, what tools
have supported, What things haveyou done that are similar to the
thing you're trying to do, thatyou've never done before?
Because when we can tap intowhat's possible, what we've
(02:55):
accessed, even if it's notexactly the same, or the context
is different, it feels moreaccessible. And that's one of
the main reasons I interviewedmy dad in the first place was to
provide that example of someonewho has navigated career shifts
that were often not chosen, andsometimes when we don't have an
(03:20):
experience that we can tap intohearing other people's
experience is a way to go, Okay,if they've done it. How might
this be possible for me too, andit is a tool that is often used
in 12 step rooms. So it makessense that this would be one
that would resonate here. Ishare all of this not to say
(03:43):
that my dad was by any means aperfect person. There were
plenty of things that wereimperfect, and I've shared very
transparently about that inother interviews, as well as on
this podcast, as we werechatting, and as I have
reflected in his obituary in avariety of other places, he has
(04:07):
helped remind me of thedifference that can be made in
small, meaningful ways by aperfectly, imperfect person who
is dedicated to always learning,growing and being of service. So
I'll share a little bit of hisbio, which I shared in the intro
to the last episode. But I do anew intro and I do a replay, so
(04:31):
this is what you get this time.
And I also want to let you allknow that if you did listen to
the original episode, and youdon't want to re listen to the
entire thing. I do include aboutat the 20 minute mark some new
content that I had cut out fortime reasons. And it's about a
toolbox. My dad had some reallybrilliant insights, and I'm very
(04:58):
great. Grateful that I thoughtto snip it out in case I ever
wanted to use it for something,and here we are. So my dad,
Frank John Potter, was a semiretired chemist, chemical
engineer and Computer SupportEngineer, often accused of
telling you how to build awatch. If you ask him what time
it is, he protests that a littleknowledge is a dangerous thing,
(05:21):
so imagine what could be donewith a great deal of it.
Flunking out of Clarkson Collegeof Technology led to three years
of military service, whichincluded a tour in Vietnam,
where his grasp of radar repairwas put to use fixing movie
projectors. Afterwards, hemarried his college sweetheart,
then attended a communitycollege in New York where he
(05:42):
bought his first copy of the Taoteaching in a bookstore. He had
a Bachelor of Science inchemistry from Rensselaer
Polytechnic Institute, a Masterof Science in chemistry and a
PhD in Chemical Engineering fromVanderbilt University. During
his doctoral program and whileraising two daughters, John
found 12 step recovery. Over hiscareer, he has held a variety of
(06:03):
jobs, including chemicalengineer, adjunct professor,
consulting engineer, videoeditor, technical writer, and
finally, worked a 15 year stintat a small company specializing
in digital signage, where hewore too many hats to count. At
age 70, he found a passion forsharpening knives and semi
retired into entrepreneurship asthe owner of Nashville knife
(06:25):
sharpening during it all, hekept drawing, studying Taoist
and other Chinese philosophy andgenerally amusing himself and
others with doodles and artisticwitticisms. Later, my dad and
mom moved to Massachusetts to becloser to family, where my dad
quickly became an integral partof the community, serving as
(06:46):
board chair in the retirementcommunity they were part of and
continuing his daily smiles,which were a ministry of humor
and encouragement that he beganduring the covid 19 pandemic. He
made friends everywhere he went,he had a generous heart, and he
was a friend to those in need,in need of a laugh, compassion,
advice, information, a muffin, aride or some change. He always
(07:10):
was more than happy to help, andoften became the go to guy for
many approaching each projectwith enthusiasm and detailed
care, a master of analogies, hisadvice typically came through a
thoughtfully crafted story orcomparison, and he never judged,
well, maybe sometimes, but henever held on to it. He'd say,
(07:32):
Here's my advice, but do whatyou want. I know you will
anyway. My dad lived a lifemarked by resilience and
service. While never financiallysuccessful, he was immensely
successful in all the ways thatreally matter in being human. He
leaves behind a legacy of witand wisdom and the reminder
(07:53):
found in this podcast episodethat sometimes when things seem
to be falling apart, they'reactually falling into place.
Some of what we talk about inthis episode includes being open
to the unexpected decisionmaking with the support of
friends courage and definingenough navigating unemployment
(08:15):
and the accumulation of skillsand putting them to use. I hope
that you enjoy this episode andthat you find it as supportive
as I have found my dad over themany years that I was blessed to
have him in my life, and now,without further ado, let's get
started.
(08:43):
Welcome dad. I'm so excited tohave you on my podcast. You did
a Ignite talk a few years back,and it was about punctuated
equilibrium, essentially likelife journey stuff, and since
you did that, I was thinking,Gosh, it'd be great to have you
(09:05):
on to expound upon some of thosethings, because it's a very
short talk. It's only like fiveminutes, and especially because
I've had a number of clientsrecently talking about what one
might call a midlife careercrisis, as it were. And I
(09:28):
thought about your Ignite talk,and thought about punctuated
equilibrium, and it seemed likea really appropriate time to
invite you to come share alittle bit about that and what
that's looked like. Because Ithink while everybody's journey
looks differently, there'sbenefit in the reflective piece
(09:48):
that we don't get until we getlater on in life, and we can
look back and go, Oh, and theprocess of living it is a little
bit different. So normally, Iask people to share a little bit
about themselves, but. Because alot of this interview is
basically asking you to shareabout yourself, I would love to
start with just asking you toshare a little bit about what is
(10:09):
punctuated equilibrium.
F. John Potter (10:11):
Punctuated equilibrium is a concept used in
evolution you have periodsduring which things are pretty
much steady, you get smallchanges. Plants will start
growing across a region, andthen the animals will follow the
(10:37):
plants. Certain animals willdiscover that they can eat this
new food. At some point, apotentially cataclysmic event
will occur, and that steadystate of events will be totally
disrupted. After the disruption,a new equilibrium is found, and
(11:05):
things go along for a long timeat that new equilibrium, and
then another event will happen,and once again, things are
thrown into an uproar, and wheneverything settles down, a new
steady state equilibrium isfound. So that sounds all very
(11:27):
technical. Think of it in termsof about 65 million years ago,
we had dinosaurs roaming theearth, and then an asteroid hit
the Earth, a boom, the skydarkened for probably a number
of years of all the stuff thrownup into the atmosphere, and the
(11:51):
dinosaurs died off, and mammalstook over. And this kind of
event, there have been massextinctions multiple times in
the last four and a half billionyears, which is a really big
number. I can't get my mindaround how big it is, but I kind
(12:12):
of get the idea, yeah, stuffhappens.
Valerie Friedlander (12:16):
I get a lot of comments about my use of
analogies and being a master ofanalogies. And I have to say, a
lot of this is due to my dad,because of his use of analogies.
Would you describe how youutilized this as an analogy in
your life?
F. John Potter (12:33):
So in preparation for this talk, which
I know is going to happen, I dida little math and counted up, I
think, nine separate events inmy life that would qualify as
what might have seemed like acataclysmic event at the time,
(12:53):
but turned out not so bad, atleast in retrospect. I went to
college, got degree inchemistry, and then I was a
chemist for a while, and acompany hired me to be an
engineer, and I had to move toMassachusetts. Now, not all
events are like totallydestructive, like the extinction
(13:15):
of the dinosaurs, but I moved toMassachusetts. Valerie was
raised in Massachusetts,although she was born in
Nashville, and I have this greatjob. It's sending me around the
country and once to Canada to doengineering stuff. And then the
(13:38):
company got bought and moved toIowa, but I wasn't moved to
Iowa, so I am now out of work.
Now, what do I do? So I found ajob as a chemist again, and then
that job ran into financialdifficulties, and so I was let
go, and I'll mention this justbefore I was let go. I found out
(13:59):
that my wife was pregnant againwith Valerie's sister, as it
turns out, so I was all excited.
And I go in to work and I'mready to tell people, and they
say, Oh, by the way, we have tolet you go because We can't pay
you anymore. So that was alittle more cataclysmic. I
(14:24):
couldn't find a new job withinan hour's drive of where we
live. My approach at that timewas to put together what I call
a clearness committee, a groupof friends who were able to ask
me questions about, what do youwant to do, what are you good
(14:46):
at? What are you willing to giveup to get something else, kind
of thing? And I ended up comingback to Tennessee at that time.
I've been here ever since. And Iwent back to. College, so a
really major change, and allthat took about nine months,
(15:08):
went back to college, got a PhDin chemical engineering, and I
had a job that used chemicalengineering type stuff. And then
that guy made some really badbusiness decisions. He was a
consultant, and all his clientssaid, we are never hiring you
(15:31):
again. So I was let go again.
And so I looked at, gee, whathave I learned how to do during
this job? I learned how to dovideo editing as part of this
chemical engineering dataanalysis stuff. So I had some
time as my own video editor. Ifound a job at a local college
(15:54):
as kind of a part time teachingposition, and I kept putting out
resumes. I had printouts with meall the time. Wherever I went,
I'd have one in an envelopeready to end anybody you know.
My father used to say that whenone door closes, another door
(16:14):
opens. He was great philosopher,parable, cabinet maker.
Valerie Friedlander (16:26):
I could use that. I might, I might just. I
really appreciate that youmentioned the clearness
committee. I'm assuming that itwas a Quaker clearness
committee. It was, but it wouldhave to be Quaker. I think it's
a really valuable tool that inthis over individualized
(16:48):
society, we think, Oh, I justhave to figure this out on my
own, and having other people, Iwould say, you know, either a
trained professional, but alsoit could be a group of friends,
it could be a group of peoplewho are willing to just ask you
questions and not just givetheir input and not tell you,
Well, I think you should dothis, but actually ask you
(17:09):
questions like you justdescribed, and help you discern
for yourself, as we've oftentalked about, like People love
to give advice. So having peoplethat are intentionally coming
together to support you, findingwhat works for you, at least for
(17:30):
now, is a really useful tool,and so I appreciate that you
brought that up.
F. John Potter (17:36):
I will mention that during a clearness
committee, it is often helpfulto have periods of silence. One
or two minutes doesn't have tobe a half hour of deep
meditation, especially if thingsare getting excited, which
occasionally happens. So I thinkwe all need to sit quietly for a
(17:59):
moment.
Valerie Friedlander (18:01):
That's really hard for a lot of people.
It's interesting growing up inthe Quaker tradition, which is
sitting in silence for worship,sort of like meditation. It was
surprising to me how many peoplereally get uncomfortable sitting
in silence, and how much of apractice it is. It really is
(18:21):
about cultivating a practice.
All right. So the period thatyou were just talking about of
when you were out of work andyou were looking for work, I was
probably in middle school.
F. John Potter (18:30):
You might have been going to East Magna at that
time.
Valerie Friedlander (18:34):
That would explain why you were able to
drive me. Yes, yeah, I actuallydidn't realize that you were
doing video editing at thattime, so that, I mean, I
remember that period, and Iremember that it was really
stressful.
F. John Potter (18:48):
I'd say I was doing video editing. I was also
cutting hedges in the summer.
You know, I looked at, what canI do, and then I tried to
monetize it, I guess not myfavorite stuff, but necessity
was the mother of invention.
(19:10):
Then I was doing this teachingat a local college, and I
applied for a I got a full timejob teaching chemistry. And then
I got a call to come toTranscender. This is one of the
resumes that I had dropped off.
Well, most colleges provide somekind of employment help service.
(19:34):
And this was dropped off there.
The guy who owned this company,came in to Vanderbilt, saw my
resume, had me come out for aninterview. I thought it was the
worst interview I ever had. Iwasn't prepared for the quote,
(19:54):
unquote, standard interviewquestions. Where do you think
you'll be in five years? Kind ofthing. And the day that the
college sent me the thank youfor applying, but we're not
going to hire you to be aprofessor. I also got the we
want to offer you a job. It wassynchronicity at work. So that's
(20:20):
when I started working atTranscender as a technical
editor. All through my life,I've had I go to schooling, I
learned how to do something, andhave a piece of paper that says
I can do it, and I learn otherskills, and then my next round
is going to use some of thosenew skills, maybe almost
(20:42):
exclusively, like I didn't doany chemistry at Transcender,
and then Transcender was boughtand moved to Atlanta, and so now
I'm out of work again. I didsome more video editing at that
time, and I was networking withpeople I knew, one of whom said,
(21:06):
Oh, you need to go talk to thisguy that owns this computer
company. Well, while I was atTranscender, I got all these
Microsoft certifications as partof my job. Transcender made test
preparation software for peoplewho wanted to pass Microsoft
certification tests. So I had togo take the tests to learn what
(21:28):
the questions were like, so Icould write new questions. And I
ended up getting certified. SoI'm out of Transcender. My
friend says, go talk to thiscomputer guy. I go talk to him.
He says, Well, I really don'tneed any help right now, but we
did have a tech support personleave recently, so I could give
(21:50):
you a try. And the kind of giveyou a try turned into a almost
20 year job. That is what Iretired from. And during the end
of that job, my daughter in lawreceived a very nice Japanese
knife that she was afraid to usebecause she did not sharpen it
(22:14):
or take care of it. And I said,Oh, I'll look into that. I'll
figure that out for you. Andthat's when I got into knife
sharpening just as well. Let mehelp out Kristen, and I'll
sharpen her knife, and I'llsharpen my knives. Now, my
grandfather tried to teach mehow to sharpen knives using a
(22:37):
carborundum Whetstone, and I wasnever very good at it. I kept
trying, but I couldn't reallyget knives real sharp. Well, now
I'm committed to learning how tosharpen a Japanese knife, and
thank goodness for YouTube. Ibecame YouTube knowledgeable.
YouTube university can be veryhelpful. You have to be choosy,
(23:02):
but there's some really goodstuff out there, and I learned
how to sharpen knives onJapanese whetstones. So that's
what I do now. So anyway, I Ihave this progression that I can
look back and say, well, itmakes total sense. But at the
(23:22):
time, it was like, oh my god,this is catastrophic. Or what am
I going to do now? And I wouldlook over my tool set. Now, we
all start with a tool set, andwe all get different tools, and
some of them can turn into acareer, and I found something a
(23:43):
while ago that occasionallyoccurs to me. Sometimes when
things seem to be falling apart,they're actually falling into
place.
Valerie Friedlander (23:54):
It's interesting that you use the
tool set analogy, because that'sone of the things that I'll talk
about that analogy of when allyou have is a hammer. Everything
in life is a nail. Growing upwith all of the stuff that you
and mom were navigating, I had atoolbox that I picked up
(24:15):
watching the two of you do work,but I had really only learned or
internalized the use of ahammer. So I used all the tools,
the wrench, the screwdriver,everything was used like a
hammer. And it was only until Idid my own work that I started
to actually learn how to use thetools that I had, and, of
course, accumulate new ones. Andinterestingly enough, you
(24:37):
mentioned you get these toolsover time, and you don't
necessarily know how they'regoing to be used. A lot of that
has played into what I do now.
F. John Potter (24:46):
I'm glad you mentioned analogies, because I
have found it helpful to takewhen all you have is a hammer,
everything looks like a nail.
Turn it around, when all youhave is a nail. Everything looks
like a hammer. I have usedscrewdrivers and wrenches and
two by fours and rocks ashammers. A hammer works really
(25:10):
well as a hammer. These otherthings, not so well. So then I
have to evaluate, what do I needright here? Screwdrivers. I fix
people's knives where they havesnapped off the tip because they
used it as a screwdriver or apry bar, and knives don't do
(25:31):
that very well.
Valerie Friedlander (25:36):
Usually I reflect on in watching you and
mom go through a lot of changesand shifts in careers, and
following these twists and turnsafter events and losses and
changes and all of that thatit's like, well, it's more about
who do I want to be, not what doI want to be? As though my job
(25:59):
is a definition of me, butthere's a common question of,
what are you going to be whenyou grow up? I actually don't
like it as a question, but I'mcurious, when you were a kid,
what did you want to be when yougrew up?
F. John Potter (26:13):
I really honestly do not remember ever
wanting to be something when Igrew up as a child, and I was
asked that question. I firstwent to college as a physics
major, not because I wanted tobe a physicist and study
(26:34):
elementary particles or anythinglike that, but just because I
was pretty good at the math.
Now, I got to college and foundout I was terrible at calculus.
That came later, but at thetime, I did not do well in
college. I actually made itthrough three semesters and out
the best thing I got out ofgoing to college was that I fell
(26:59):
in love with this lovely coed alocal state school, and our
marriage has lasted. We bothacknowledge that we are not the
people we were when we gotmarried. Relationships require
their own nurturing, andsometimes you find out that this
(27:23):
is probably not the rightperson, maybe a bad decision,
that's okay. That was not mycase, but I did learn that, you
know, Tang, I love you. You'reperfect. Now change. Well,
change is going to happen,whether or not I want it to
happen, whether or not someoneelse wants it to happen. Okay, I
(27:46):
mentioned that I flunked out ofcollege at the time. It was 1968
Vietnam. War had offensive. Igot my draft notice, I enlisted
in the Army, and when I got outof the army, I went back to
(28:06):
college. And you're asking, youknow, what do you want to be
when you grow up? Well, I didn'tknow, so I went to a community
college because they would takeme Fourier school said your
grades were so bad previouslythat we'd not entrusted so I
went to a community college, andI took just a spectrum of
(28:30):
coursework, Psychology, English,chemistry, calculus, painting. I
really, really liked thepainting class. My house today
still has some of thosepaintings on the wall, but I was
faced at some point with thechoice, do I want to be a fat
(28:53):
chemist or a starving artist?
And as much as I liked painting,I didn't think I was as good as
other people that I could see.
Now, granted, everything has alearning curve, but chemistry,
the learning curve was short andfast for me, I could get a job
(29:15):
as a chemist and probably dowell. Now it turned out the
chemist job that I envisioned inschool never happened.
Valerie Friedlander (29:30):
I think it's interesting to notice how
so often we imagine something isgoing to look a particular way,
but when we actually do it, itdoes not look at all like that.
It's kind of one of the reasonswhy I've always disliked that
question, where do you seeyourself in five years? Because
I'm too aware of how lifechanges. I think having a
(29:51):
direction can be helpful, butlife is too amorphous. I've
preferred as I've frequentlytalked about the term
cottywample, which. Is Britishslang for walking intentionally
toward an unknown destination,because that's what I have power
over. Is how I move in theworld. I don't necessarily know
(30:11):
what something's going to looklike once I get there.
F. John Potter (30:14):
When we explore the unknown, by definition, we
don't know what we will find. Ihad several job interviews that
I thought went really, reallywell back when I thought, well,
I'm going to become a chemist,and I will retire from a
chemistry job with a majorcorporation with, you know,
(30:37):
pension plan. And this predatesfor one case and IRAs, and none
of that happened, but it's beenkind of a fun and interesting
journey, and I learned at somepoint along the line to keep my
gratitude up and my expectationsdown.
Valerie Friedlander (31:03):
One of the things you talked about in your
Ignite session was developing,or finding a moral compass. And
one of the things I've talked toclients, even recently was about
establishing a container for howyou show up in the world,
something to touch base on,because it's really easy to get
pulled around and oh, well, thisis what I should do. My parents
(31:23):
told me I should be this, or mycollege advisor suggested this,
or a good friend said this, orwhatever. And so I'm curious
about how having a moral compasshas played into your navigation
of all of these punctuatedequilibrium experiences.
F. John Potter (31:45):
As far as moral compass, I love the compass
analogy, because if you have areal compass, magnetic compass,
and you bring a magnet near thecompass, the compass will
suddenly shift over to point atthe magnet and take the magnet
away, and the compass goes backto magnetic north. If you're
(32:08):
looking for work and somebodyoffers you a whole bunch of
money, even if the job is notvery attractive, your compass
can suddenly point toward themoney, having a certain amount
of money for job is important,but I wouldn't take some jobs
just because I'd beuncomfortable with the work. I
(32:31):
would make a terribletelemarketer, because I don't
like calling people up andtelling them what they need to
do, even though, in my heart, Iknow it's probably not the best
thing for them.
Valerie Friedlander (32:43):
I think it's helpful as a reflection
money in the way that we live inthe world, right now, in our
society, currently, in oureconomy, currently, we need to
make money. And so it's veryunderstandable that that would
be pulled like, I need to make aliving, I need to support my
(33:04):
family, I need to do thosethings. And so having that
awareness of, and I just talkedabout this recently, it's a
factor. Money is a factor. Wecan't, like, discount it,
because when we go, oh, it's nota factor, that compass gets
pulled towards the magnet, andwe're like, no, no, no, that's
not what's happening, but it is.
And when we can recognize whathas that attractiveness, what
(33:25):
has that Sway on us, then we canacknowledge it and engage it
with intention, rather than justbeing like, that's not what's
happening and or pull ourselvesin the completely opposite
direction, in a way that isactually counter to what our
needs are, because we'rediscounting them and we're not
(33:45):
acknowledging them.
F. John Potter (33:48):
One way of finding a moral compass is to
find some religion, or, in mycase, philosophy that fits the
Dante Chang has a statement. Hewho knows he has enough is rich.
In other words, if you haveenough and you know it, then you
(34:11):
have enough.
Valerie Friedlander (34:13):
Yeah, that's one of the things I often
been looking at, is definingenough because we're fed this
idea that we don't have enoughconstantly. There's this just
general sense, and sometimes wedon't sometimes we don't have
enough. But if you don't knowwhat enough is, you won't know
when you have it, and you willhave a harder time figuring out
(34:35):
how to get it. So when you knowwhat that looks like, then you
can make more clear choices. AndI think about, like, just the
odd jobs, like, what you say yesto for work, you know, may very
well have to do with like, well,what is enough, and is this the
place that I can get it from?
And it's not just enough money,but it's enough fulfillment,
it's enough support, it'senough. Flexibility. It's a not
(34:59):
you know, like, what does thatactually look like? If you can
define it? One thing that Iwanted to ask you about in doing
this Ignite session, which Iwill have a link to in the show
notes. I know it took a lot ofcourage to do that talk, and it
was way outside of your comfortzone, and a lot of times people
(35:20):
want to do things, but they'rescared, and they know they need
to implement courage. You didn'thave to do the talk, and yet you
did anyway. And I'm curious whatmotivated you and what helped
you actually show up to that.
F. John Potter (35:41):
All right, a good part of it was I was asked
I did not think, gee, I'd reallylike do a talk. Wonder where I
could do it. No, my daughter inlaw was working for the
organization at the time, andher boss went to her and said,
(36:04):
We need someone who's done likea major career change, maybe
after retirement. Do you knowanybody like that? So part of it
was to support her, but I wastold, gee, John, you don't have
to do this, but it gave me anopportunity to step outside of
(36:25):
my comfort zone. Now, I am not aperson who deliberately steps
out of his comfort zone just todo that. I don't ever plan to go
bungee jumping. I hope I neverhave to jump out of an airplane,
a perfectly safe airplane with aparachute on my back. But I was
(36:49):
able to be of support, and I washoping, you know, who knows?
Maybe it'll get her a promotion.
It didn't, but I didn't knowthat, and it gave me a chance to
talk about myself, not that Iwant to get up on podia and talk
about myself all the time. Andit was a bit of a challenge, a
(37:11):
personal challenge. You got fiveminutes, you got 20 slides. You
got 15 seconds per slide, andthe slide is going to change
whether or not you're ready. Ifanybody wants to find that talk,
it is on YouTube.
Valerie Friedlander (37:30):
Oh, I plan on linking it in the show notes
F. John Potter (37:32):
What about mine, because I edited it, because I
can video edit.
Valerie Friedlander (37:38):
Because you can do that,
F. John Potter (37:39):
Because I can do it, and at the end of it, I have
an outtake. The presentation wasdone twice. There was a morning
and an afternoon repeat. In themorning, I forgot my lines. It
was described as you're doing atango with your slides, and the
(38:03):
slides will keep dancing even ifyou fall down. So in the morning
session, I fell down, and I hada pretty good recovery, I guess.
And then during lunch, I workedreally hard on, what did I
forget? Where did I screw up?
And the afternoon one is the onethat's in the video, and it came
(38:24):
off pretty good. I think.
Valerie Friedlander (38:30):
One of the last things that I asked people
on this podcast when I do aninterview is, what does it mean
to you to be unlimited? So Iwould love for you to answer
that question.
F. John Potter (38:43):
Yeah, I saw where you asked that. Well,
maybe it's like Buzz Lightyearto infinity and beyond. I think
for me, it's been more and thisgoes back into my childhood
where it didn't work to mybenefit, that I was more aware
(39:06):
of my limitations. What does itmean to be unlimited? I'm not
sure I can agree with thatquestion.
Valerie Friedlander (39:16):
Well, I've had people kind of reframe it of
like, I don't think I am, and Idon't think we should be, and I
think this about that idea ofunlimitedness. I mean, the
podcast is called unlimitedmostly because of how much we
allow other people to limit us.
Because I think we do need to belimited. We need to create a
container for ourselves, but weneed to recognize, you know, mom
(39:39):
would always say the realm ofall possibilities, and that's
kind of overwhelming, and itnever really worked for me. But
I think it's helpful to knowthat there is a realm of all
possibilities. I'm just choosingto create my own space in that,
not just to be like everywhereall the things.
F. John Potter (39:59):
You know, if you're in the middle of the
ocean, all you see is water allaround you, and it looks totally
unlimited forever, but if youstart swimming, eventually you
come to land. I'm more focusedon what have I allowed myself to
be limited by? And I don't havethe ability to run anymore. I
(40:21):
used to love to jog. Jogging wasmy passion, because it's, it's
an individual activity. I am notcompeting against anyone, I
except myself. And even there,I'm not really competing,
because some days I know I'mgoing to be able to go longer,
faster and other than otherdays, but I can't run anymore
(40:46):
because I broke a bone in myfoot. And if I walk, no problem.
If I run, where that breakhappened, my foot starts saying,
you don't want to do this. Didyou hear me? You don't want to
do this. So to be unlimited isto be aware of what limitations
(41:11):
I have, which ones arepermanent, which ones will
change over time, and which oneshave I imposed on myself? So to
be unlimited is for me beingaware of my limitations. I'm
almost 75, years old. There arethings that I can't do anymore,
(41:35):
but I have ways around them. OrI mean, I don't have diabetes,
but a diabetic is not likely togo, ooh, birthday cake. Give me
two pieces. They havelimitations. Sometimes those
limitations are because of pastchoices. Sometimes they're
genetic. I mean, they could bereligious. If you're an Orthodox
(42:00):
Jew, you probably won't eatbacon no matter how good it
smells when it's cooking. It's alimit, yeah, deliberate,
intentional. Are my limitsintentional?
Valerie Friedlander (42:14):
And when you want to feel that unlimited
feeling, that expansive feeling,if you will, what song would you
choose to listen to?
F. John Potter (42:26):
Well, I'm glad you asked that question. Purple
Haze by Jimi Hendrix.
Valerie Friedlander (42:32):
Awesome. I will add that to the Spotify
playlist.
F. John Potter (42:39):
Also Pink Floyd the wall, the whole album. Now
you've got to put the wholealbum on the playlist.
Valerie Friedlander (42:48):
So that's an interesting choice. What
about that makes you feelunlimited?
F. John Potter (42:53):
Well, my older daughter and I used to spend a
lot of time in the car together,going to voice lessons and
getting driven to school andpicked up, and I had that on a
cassette tape. This goes back afew years. The totos were alone
(43:14):
in the car together. Thatcassette tape was popped in, and
wherever it did stop playing, itwould start playing again and
again and again and again andagain.
Valerie Friedlander (43:26):
So it was played unlimitedly.
F. John Potter (43:29):
It was played unlimited times over a number of
years. Yep, and that is one ofmy favorite driving music, not
with my wife. It's not hermusic, but it's our music. She
likes it, but she wouldn't wantto listen to it over and over
and over, whereas my olderdaughter and I could, I'm sure
(43:55):
you and I could too.
Valerie Friedlander (43:57):
Yeah, probably given that we're one of
the same person.
F. John Potter (44:01):
Well, yeah, at the time.
Valerie Friedlander (44:03):
I mean, it's true. Well. Thank you dad
for joining me for thisconversation. I've really
enjoyed it, and I look forwardto sharing it.
F. John Potter (44:16):
Very good.
Valerie Friedlander (44:17):
Thanks for listening. I so appreciate you
being here. If you got somethingout of today's episode, please
share it, leave me a review,take a screenshot and post it on
social with a shout out to me,send it to a friend or, you
know, all of the above. Want tohang out more, join me on
Instagram, or, better yet, geton my mailing list to make sure
you don't miss out on anything,and remember your possibilities
(44:41):
are as unlimited as you are.
Allow yourself to shine, myfriend, the world needs your
light. See you next time.
Hello, my friends and welcome to a replay
episode of Mindset unlimited.
Mindset tips, tools andinspiration for women in a time
of change. I'm your host.
Valerie Friedlander, ICFcertified coach, sociologist,
intersectional feminist artist,mom and nerd, and today we are
talking about living life withintegrity. This is a replay of
(00:28):
an episode from season threeentitled resilience through
unexpected career shifts. Thisepisode is particularly special
to me because it is an interviewthat I did with my father, Frank
John Potter, who passed away onOctober 17 of this year. I
decided to replay this episode,partly in memory of him and his
(00:54):
recent passing, and also becauseI was going through it to help
me write his obituary, and goingthrough all of the messages that
I have received from peoplewhose lives he touched, and
something really stood out to meas I was reviewing all of this,
and it was how much he lived hisLife with integrity. I've talked
(01:19):
about integrity before andbriefly, what it means is really
wholeness. It is like an integerlike it is a whole ness of
being. And that's how he showedup. I found a little slip of
paper in his wallet as I wasgoing through all of the things
as one does, and the paper said,do all aspects of your life bear
(01:45):
the same witness? And I thinkhis did, and I think now more
than ever, it's a really helpfulexample. I know it is for me of
thinking about how I show upwith everything going on, it's
so easy to get caught up inawful things and then feel like,
(02:09):
well, I want to not lose sightof the happy things, of the
joyful things, and how all ofthat goes together in a whole
experience of life and how Ishow up true to myself and the
person that I want to be, andit's challenging. So one of the
(02:33):
tools that I recommend forpeople when we're working
together is we reflect on whathas been available, what tools
have supported, What things haveyou done that are similar to the
thing you're trying to do, thatyou've never done before?
Because when we can tap intowhat's possible, what we've
(02:55):
accessed, even if it's notexactly the same, or the context
is different, it feels moreaccessible. And that's one of
the main reasons I interviewedmy dad in the first place was to
provide that example of someonewho has navigated career shifts
that were often not chosen, andsometimes when we don't have an
(03:20):
experience that we can tap intohearing other people's
experience is a way to go, Okay,if they've done it. How might
this be possible for me too, andit is a tool that is often used
in 12 step rooms. So it makessense that this would be one
that would resonate here. Ishare all of this not to say
(03:43):
that my dad was by any means aperfect person. There were
plenty of things that wereimperfect, and I've shared very
transparently about that inother interviews, as well as on
this podcast, as we werechatting, and as I have
reflected in his obituary in avariety of other places, he has
(04:07):
helped remind me of thedifference that can be made in
small, meaningful ways by aperfectly, imperfect person who
is dedicated to always learning,growing and being of service. So
I'll share a little bit of hisbio, which I shared in the intro
to the last episode. But I do anew intro and I do a replay, so
(04:31):
this is what you get this time.
And I also want to let you allknow that if you did listen to
the original episode, and youdon't want to re listen to the
entire thing. I do include aboutat the 20 minute mark some new
content that I had cut out fortime reasons. And it's about a
toolbox. My dad had some reallybrilliant insights, and I'm very
(04:58):
great. Grateful that I thoughtto snip it out in case I ever
wanted to use it for something,and here we are. So my dad,
Frank John Potter, was a semiretired chemist, chemical
engineer and Computer SupportEngineer, often accused of
telling you how to build awatch. If you ask him what time
it is, he protests that a littleknowledge is a dangerous thing,
(05:21):
so imagine what could be donewith a great deal of it.
Flunking out of Clarkson Collegeof Technology led to three years
of military service, whichincluded a tour in Vietnam,
where his grasp of radar repairwas put to use fixing movie
projectors. Afterwards, hemarried his college sweetheart,
then attended a communitycollege in New York where he
(05:42):
bought his first copy of the Taoteaching in a bookstore. He had
a Bachelor of Science inchemistry from Rensselaer
Polytechnic Institute, a Masterof Science in chemistry and a
PhD in Chemical Engineering fromVanderbilt University. During
his doctoral program and whileraising two daughters, John
found 12 step recovery. Over hiscareer, he has held a variety of
(06:03):
jobs, including chemicalengineer, adjunct professor,
consulting engineer, videoeditor, technical writer, and
finally, worked a 15 year stintat a small company specializing
in digital signage, where hewore too many hats to count. At
age 70, he found a passion forsharpening knives and semi
retired into entrepreneurship asthe owner of Nashville knife
(06:25):
sharpening during it all, hekept drawing, studying Taoist
and other Chinese philosophy andgenerally amusing himself and
others with doodles and artisticwitticisms. Later, my dad and
mom moved to Massachusetts to becloser to family, where my dad
quickly became an integral partof the community, serving as
(06:46):
board chair in the retirementcommunity they were part of and
continuing his daily smiles,which were a ministry of humor
and encouragement that he beganduring the covid 19 pandemic. He
made friends everywhere he went,he had a generous heart, and he
was a friend to those in need,in need of a laugh, compassion,
advice, information, a muffin, aride or some change. He always
(07:10):
was more than happy to help, andoften became the go to guy for
many approaching each projectwith enthusiasm and detailed
care, a master of analogies, hisadvice typically came through a
thoughtfully crafted story orcomparison, and he never judged,
well, maybe sometimes, but henever held on to it. He'd say,
(07:32):
Here's my advice, but do whatyou want. I know you will
anyway. My dad lived a lifemarked by resilience and
service. While never financiallysuccessful, he was immensely
successful in all the ways thatreally matter in being human. He
leaves behind a legacy of witand wisdom and the reminder
(07:53):
found in this podcast episodethat sometimes when things seem
to be falling apart, they'reactually falling into place.
Some of what we talk about inthis episode includes being open
to the unexpected decisionmaking with the support of
friends courage and definingenough navigating unemployment
(08:15):
and the accumulation of skillsand putting them to use. I hope
that you enjoy this episode andthat you find it as supportive
as I have found my dad over themany years that I was blessed to
have him in my life, and now,without further ado, let's get
started.
(08:43):
Welcome dad. I'm so excited tohave you on my podcast. You did
a Ignite talk a few years back,and it was about punctuated
equilibrium, essentially likelife journey stuff, and since
you did that, I was thinking,Gosh, it'd be great to have you
(09:05):
on to expound upon some of thosethings, because it's a very
short talk. It's only like fiveminutes, and especially because
I've had a number of clientsrecently talking about what one
might call a midlife careercrisis, as it were. And I
(09:28):
thought about your Ignite talk,and thought about punctuated
equilibrium, and it seemed likea really appropriate time to
invite you to come share alittle bit about that and what
that's looked like. Because Ithink while everybody's journey
looks differently, there'sbenefit in the reflective piece
(09:48):
that we don't get until we getlater on in life, and we can
look back and go, Oh, and theprocess of living it is a little
bit different. So normally, Iask people to share a little bit
about themselves, but. Because alot of this interview is
basically asking you to shareabout yourself, I would love to
start with just asking you toshare a little bit about what is
(10:09):
punctuated equilibrium.
F. John Potter (10:11):
Punctuated equilibrium is a concept used in
evolution you have periodsduring which things are pretty
much steady, you get smallchanges. Plants will start
growing across a region, andthen the animals will follow the
(10:37):
plants. Certain animals willdiscover that they can eat this
new food. At some point, apotentially cataclysmic event
will occur, and that steadystate of events will be totally
disrupted. After the disruption,a new equilibrium is found, and
(11:05):
things go along for a long timeat that new equilibrium, and
then another event will happen,and once again, things are
thrown into an uproar, and wheneverything settles down, a new
steady state equilibrium isfound. So that sounds all very
(11:27):
technical. Think of it in termsof about 65 million years ago,
we had dinosaurs roaming theearth, and then an asteroid hit
the Earth, a boom, the skydarkened for probably a number
of years of all the stuff thrownup into the atmosphere, and the
(11:51):
dinosaurs died off, and mammalstook over. And this kind of
event, there have been massextinctions multiple times in
the last four and a half billionyears, which is a really big
number. I can't get my mindaround how big it is, but I kind
(12:12):
of get the idea, yeah, stuffhappens.
Valerie Friedlander (12:16):
I get a lot of comments about my use of
analogies and being a master ofanalogies. And I have to say, a
lot of this is due to my dad,because of his use of analogies.
Would you describe how youutilized this as an analogy in
your life?
F. John Potter (12:33):
So in preparation for this talk, which
I know is going to happen, I dida little math and counted up, I
think, nine separate events inmy life that would qualify as
what might have seemed like acataclysmic event at the time,
(12:53):
but turned out not so bad, atleast in retrospect. I went to
college, got degree inchemistry, and then I was a
chemist for a while, and acompany hired me to be an
engineer, and I had to move toMassachusetts. Now, not all
events are like totallydestructive, like the extinction
(13:15):
of the dinosaurs, but I moved toMassachusetts. Valerie was
raised in Massachusetts,although she was born in
Nashville, and I have this greatjob. It's sending me around the
country and once to Canada to doengineering stuff. And then the
(13:38):
company got bought and moved toIowa, but I wasn't moved to
Iowa, so I am now out of work.
Now, what do I do? So I found ajob as a chemist again, and then
that job ran into financialdifficulties, and so I was let
go, and I'll mention this justbefore I was let go. I found out
(13:59):
that my wife was pregnant againwith Valerie's sister, as it
turns out, so I was all excited.
And I go in to work and I'mready to tell people, and they
say, Oh, by the way, we have tolet you go because We can't pay
you anymore. So that was alittle more cataclysmic. I
(14:24):
couldn't find a new job withinan hour's drive of where we
live. My approach at that timewas to put together what I call
a clearness committee, a groupof friends who were able to ask
me questions about, what do youwant to do, what are you good
(14:46):
at? What are you willing to giveup to get something else, kind
of thing? And I ended up comingback to Tennessee at that time.
I've been here ever since. And Iwent back to. College, so a
really major change, and allthat took about nine months,
(15:08):
went back to college, got a PhDin chemical engineering, and I
had a job that used chemicalengineering type stuff. And then
that guy made some really badbusiness decisions. He was a
consultant, and all his clientssaid, we are never hiring you
(15:31):
again. So I was let go again.
And so I looked at, gee, whathave I learned how to do during
this job? I learned how to dovideo editing as part of this
chemical engineering dataanalysis stuff. So I had some
time as my own video editor. Ifound a job at a local college
(15:54):
as kind of a part time teachingposition, and I kept putting out
resumes. I had printouts with meall the time. Wherever I went,
I'd have one in an envelopeready to end anybody you know.
My father used to say that whenone door closes, another door
(16:14):
opens. He was great philosopher,parable, cabinet maker.
Valerie Friedlander (16:26):
I could use that. I might, I might just. I
really appreciate that youmentioned the clearness
committee. I'm assuming that itwas a Quaker clearness
committee. It was, but it wouldhave to be Quaker. I think it's
a really valuable tool that inthis over individualized
(16:48):
society, we think, Oh, I justhave to figure this out on my
own, and having other people, Iwould say, you know, either a
trained professional, but alsoit could be a group of friends,
it could be a group of peoplewho are willing to just ask you
questions and not just givetheir input and not tell you,
Well, I think you should dothis, but actually ask you
(17:09):
questions like you justdescribed, and help you discern
for yourself, as we've oftentalked about, like People love
to give advice. So having peoplethat are intentionally coming
together to support you, findingwhat works for you, at least for
(17:30):
now, is a really useful tool,and so I appreciate that you
brought that up.
F. John Potter (17:36):
I will mention that during a clearness
committee, it is often helpfulto have periods of silence. One
or two minutes doesn't have tobe a half hour of deep
meditation, especially if thingsare getting excited, which
occasionally happens. So I thinkwe all need to sit quietly for a
(17:59):
moment.
Valerie Friedlander (18:01):
That's really hard for a lot of people.
It's interesting growing up inthe Quaker tradition, which is
sitting in silence for worship,sort of like meditation. It was
surprising to me how many peoplereally get uncomfortable sitting
in silence, and how much of apractice it is. It really is
(18:21):
about cultivating a practice.
All right. So the period thatyou were just talking about of
when you were out of work andyou were looking for work, I was
probably in middle school.
F. John Potter (18:30):
You might have been going to East Magna at that
time.
Valerie Friedlander (18:34):
That would explain why you were able to
drive me. Yes, yeah, I actuallydidn't realize that you were
doing video editing at thattime, so that, I mean, I
remember that period, and Iremember that it was really
stressful.
F. John Potter (18:48):
I'd say I was doing video editing. I was also
cutting hedges in the summer.
You know, I looked at, what canI do, and then I tried to
monetize it, I guess not myfavorite stuff, but necessity
was the mother of invention.
(19:10):
Then I was doing this teachingat a local college, and I
applied for a I got a full timejob teaching chemistry. And then
I got a call to come toTranscender. This is one of the
resumes that I had dropped off.
Well, most colleges provide somekind of employment help service.
(19:34):
And this was dropped off there.
The guy who owned this company,came in to Vanderbilt, saw my
resume, had me come out for aninterview. I thought it was the
worst interview I ever had. Iwasn't prepared for the quote,
(19:54):
unquote, standard interviewquestions. Where do you think
you'll be in five years? Kind ofthing. And the day that the
college sent me the thank youfor applying, but we're not
going to hire you to be aprofessor. I also got the we
want to offer you a job. It wassynchronicity at work. So that's
(20:20):
when I started working atTranscender as a technical
editor. All through my life,I've had I go to schooling, I
learned how to do something, andhave a piece of paper that says
I can do it, and I learn otherskills, and then my next round
is going to use some of thosenew skills, maybe almost
(20:42):
exclusively, like I didn't doany chemistry at Transcender,
and then Transcender was boughtand moved to Atlanta, and so now
I'm out of work again. I didsome more video editing at that
time, and I was networking withpeople I knew, one of whom said,
(21:06):
Oh, you need to go talk to thisguy that owns this computer
company. Well, while I was atTranscender, I got all these
Microsoft certifications as partof my job. Transcender made test
preparation software for peoplewho wanted to pass Microsoft
certification tests. So I had togo take the tests to learn what
(21:28):
the questions were like, so Icould write new questions. And I
ended up getting certified. SoI'm out of Transcender. My
friend says, go talk to thiscomputer guy. I go talk to him.
He says, Well, I really don'tneed any help right now, but we
did have a tech support personleave recently, so I could give
(21:50):
you a try. And the kind of giveyou a try turned into a almost
20 year job. That is what Iretired from. And during the end
of that job, my daughter in lawreceived a very nice Japanese
knife that she was afraid to usebecause she did not sharpen it
(22:14):
or take care of it. And I said,Oh, I'll look into that. I'll
figure that out for you. Andthat's when I got into knife
sharpening just as well. Let mehelp out Kristen, and I'll
sharpen her knife, and I'llsharpen my knives. Now, my
grandfather tried to teach mehow to sharpen knives using a
(22:37):
carborundum Whetstone, and I wasnever very good at it. I kept
trying, but I couldn't reallyget knives real sharp. Well, now
I'm committed to learning how tosharpen a Japanese knife, and
thank goodness for YouTube. Ibecame YouTube knowledgeable.
YouTube university can be veryhelpful. You have to be choosy,
(23:02):
but there's some really goodstuff out there, and I learned
how to sharpen knives onJapanese whetstones. So that's
what I do now. So anyway, I Ihave this progression that I can
look back and say, well, itmakes total sense. But at the
(23:22):
time, it was like, oh my god,this is catastrophic. Or what am
I going to do now? And I wouldlook over my tool set. Now, we
all start with a tool set, andwe all get different tools, and
some of them can turn into acareer, and I found something a
(23:43):
while ago that occasionallyoccurs to me. Sometimes when
things seem to be falling apart,they're actually falling into
place.
Valerie Friedlander (23:54):
It's interesting that you use the
tool set analogy, because that'sone of the things that I'll talk
about that analogy of when allyou have is a hammer. Everything
in life is a nail. Growing upwith all of the stuff that you
and mom were navigating, I had atoolbox that I picked up
(24:15):
watching the two of you do work,but I had really only learned or
internalized the use of ahammer. So I used all the tools,
the wrench, the screwdriver,everything was used like a
hammer. And it was only until Idid my own work that I started
to actually learn how to use thetools that I had, and, of
course, accumulate new ones. Andinterestingly enough, you
(24:37):
mentioned you get these toolsover time, and you don't
necessarily know how they'regoing to be used. A lot of that
has played into what I do now.
F. John Potter (24:46):
I'm glad you mentioned analogies, because I
have found it helpful to takewhen all you have is a hammer,
everything looks like a nail.
Turn it around, when all youhave is a nail. Everything looks
like a hammer. I have usedscrewdrivers and wrenches and
two by fours and rocks ashammers. A hammer works really
(25:10):
well as a hammer. These otherthings, not so well. So then I
have to evaluate, what do I needright here? Screwdrivers. I fix
people's knives where they havesnapped off the tip because they
used it as a screwdriver or apry bar, and knives don't do
(25:31):
that very well.
Valerie Friedlander (25:36):
Usually I reflect on in watching you and
mom go through a lot of changesand shifts in careers, and
following these twists and turnsafter events and losses and
changes and all of that thatit's like, well, it's more about
who do I want to be, not what doI want to be? As though my job
(25:59):
is a definition of me, butthere's a common question of,
what are you going to be whenyou grow up? I actually don't
like it as a question, but I'mcurious, when you were a kid,
what did you want to be when yougrew up?
F. John Potter (26:13):
I really honestly do not remember ever
wanting to be something when Igrew up as a child, and I was
asked that question. I firstwent to college as a physics
major, not because I wanted tobe a physicist and study
(26:34):
elementary particles or anythinglike that, but just because I
was pretty good at the math.
Now, I got to college and foundout I was terrible at calculus.
That came later, but at thetime, I did not do well in
college. I actually made itthrough three semesters and out
the best thing I got out ofgoing to college was that I fell
(26:59):
in love with this lovely coed alocal state school, and our
marriage has lasted. We bothacknowledge that we are not the
people we were when we gotmarried. Relationships require
their own nurturing, andsometimes you find out that this
(27:23):
is probably not the rightperson, maybe a bad decision,
that's okay. That was not mycase, but I did learn that, you
know, Tang, I love you. You'reperfect. Now change. Well,
change is going to happen,whether or not I want it to
happen, whether or not someoneelse wants it to happen. Okay, I
(27:46):
mentioned that I flunked out ofcollege at the time. It was 1968
Vietnam. War had offensive. Igot my draft notice, I enlisted
in the Army, and when I got outof the army, I went back to
(28:06):
college. And you're asking, youknow, what do you want to be
when you grow up? Well, I didn'tknow, so I went to a community
college because they would takeme Fourier school said your
grades were so bad previouslythat we'd not entrusted so I
went to a community college, andI took just a spectrum of
(28:30):
coursework, Psychology, English,chemistry, calculus, painting. I
really, really liked thepainting class. My house today
still has some of thosepaintings on the wall, but I was
faced at some point with thechoice, do I want to be a fat
(28:53):
chemist or a starving artist?
And as much as I liked painting,I didn't think I was as good as
other people that I could see.
Now, granted, everything has alearning curve, but chemistry,
the learning curve was short andfast for me, I could get a job
(29:15):
as a chemist and probably dowell. Now it turned out the
chemist job that I envisioned inschool never happened.
Valerie Friedlander (29:30):
I think it's interesting to notice how
so often we imagine something isgoing to look a particular way,
but when we actually do it, itdoes not look at all like that.
It's kind of one of the reasonswhy I've always disliked that
question, where do you seeyourself in five years? Because
I'm too aware of how lifechanges. I think having a
(29:51):
direction can be helpful, butlife is too amorphous. I've
preferred as I've frequentlytalked about the term
cottywample, which. Is Britishslang for walking intentionally
toward an unknown destination,because that's what I have power
over. Is how I move in theworld. I don't necessarily know
(30:11):
what something's going to looklike once I get there.
F. John Potter (30:14):
When we explore the unknown, by definition, we
don't know what we will find. Ihad several job interviews that
I thought went really, reallywell back when I thought, well,
I'm going to become a chemist,and I will retire from a
chemistry job with a majorcorporation with, you know,
(30:37):
pension plan. And this predatesfor one case and IRAs, and none
of that happened, but it's beenkind of a fun and interesting
journey, and I learned at somepoint along the line to keep my
gratitude up and my expectationsdown.
Valerie Friedlander (31:03):
One of the things you talked about in your
Ignite session was developing,or finding a moral compass. And
one of the things I've talked toclients, even recently was about
establishing a container for howyou show up in the world,
something to touch base on,because it's really easy to get
pulled around and oh, well, thisis what I should do. My parents
(31:23):
told me I should be this, or mycollege advisor suggested this,
or a good friend said this, orwhatever. And so I'm curious
about how having a moral compasshas played into your navigation
of all of these punctuatedequilibrium experiences.
F. John Potter (31:45):
As far as moral compass, I love the compass
analogy, because if you have areal compass, magnetic compass,
and you bring a magnet near thecompass, the compass will
suddenly shift over to point atthe magnet and take the magnet
away, and the compass goes backto magnetic north. If you're
(32:08):
looking for work and somebodyoffers you a whole bunch of
money, even if the job is notvery attractive, your compass
can suddenly point toward themoney, having a certain amount
of money for job is important,but I wouldn't take some jobs
just because I'd beuncomfortable with the work. I
(32:31):
would make a terribletelemarketer, because I don't
like calling people up andtelling them what they need to
do, even though, in my heart, Iknow it's probably not the best
thing for them.
Valerie Friedlander (32:43):
I think it's helpful as a reflection
money in the way that we live inthe world, right now, in our
society, currently, in oureconomy, currently, we need to
make money. And so it's veryunderstandable that that would
be pulled like, I need to make aliving, I need to support my
(33:04):
family, I need to do thosethings. And so having that
awareness of, and I just talkedabout this recently, it's a
factor. Money is a factor. Wecan't, like, discount it,
because when we go, oh, it's nota factor, that compass gets
pulled towards the magnet, andwe're like, no, no, no, that's
not what's happening, but it is.
And when we can recognize whathas that attractiveness, what
(33:25):
has that Sway on us, then we canacknowledge it and engage it
with intention, rather than justbeing like, that's not what's
happening and or pull ourselvesin the completely opposite
direction, in a way that isactually counter to what our
needs are, because we'rediscounting them and we're not
(33:45):
acknowledging them.
F. John Potter (33:48):
One way of finding a moral compass is to
find some religion, or, in mycase, philosophy that fits the
Dante Chang has a statement. Hewho knows he has enough is rich.
In other words, if you haveenough and you know it, then you
(34:11):
have enough.
Valerie Friedlander (34:13):
Yeah, that's one of the things I often
been looking at, is definingenough because we're fed this
idea that we don't have enoughconstantly. There's this just
general sense, and sometimes wedon't sometimes we don't have
enough. But if you don't knowwhat enough is, you won't know
when you have it, and you willhave a harder time figuring out
(34:35):
how to get it. So when you knowwhat that looks like, then you
can make more clear choices. AndI think about, like, just the
odd jobs, like, what you say yesto for work, you know, may very
well have to do with like, well,what is enough, and is this the
place that I can get it from?
And it's not just enough money,but it's enough fulfillment,
it's enough support, it'senough. Flexibility. It's a not
(34:59):
you know, like, what does thatactually look like? If you can
define it? One thing that Iwanted to ask you about in doing
this Ignite session, which Iwill have a link to in the show
notes. I know it took a lot ofcourage to do that talk, and it
was way outside of your comfortzone, and a lot of times people
(35:20):
want to do things, but they'rescared, and they know they need
to implement courage. You didn'thave to do the talk, and yet you
did anyway. And I'm curious whatmotivated you and what helped
you actually show up to that.
F. John Potter (35:41):
All right, a good part of it was I was asked
I did not think, gee, I'd reallylike do a talk. Wonder where I
could do it. No, my daughter inlaw was working for the
organization at the time, andher boss went to her and said,
(36:04):
We need someone who's done likea major career change, maybe
after retirement. Do you knowanybody like that? So part of it
was to support her, but I wastold, gee, John, you don't have
to do this, but it gave me anopportunity to step outside of
(36:25):
my comfort zone. Now, I am not aperson who deliberately steps
out of his comfort zone just todo that. I don't ever plan to go
bungee jumping. I hope I neverhave to jump out of an airplane,
a perfectly safe airplane with aparachute on my back. But I was
(36:49):
able to be of support, and I washoping, you know, who knows?
Maybe it'll get her a promotion.
It didn't, but I didn't knowthat, and it gave me a chance to
talk about myself, not that Iwant to get up on podia and talk
about myself all the time. Andit was a bit of a challenge, a
(37:11):
personal challenge. You got fiveminutes, you got 20 slides. You
got 15 seconds per slide, andthe slide is going to change
whether or not you're ready. Ifanybody wants to find that talk,
it is on YouTube.
Valerie Friedlander (37:30):
Oh, I plan on linking it in the show notes
F. John Potter (37:32):
What about mine, because I edited it, because I
can video edit.
Valerie Friedlander (37:38):
Because you can do that,
F. John Potter (37:39):
Because I can do it, and at the end of it, I have
an outtake. The presentation wasdone twice. There was a morning
and an afternoon repeat. In themorning, I forgot my lines. It
was described as you're doing atango with your slides, and the
(38:03):
slides will keep dancing even ifyou fall down. So in the morning
session, I fell down, and I hada pretty good recovery, I guess.
And then during lunch, I workedreally hard on, what did I
forget? Where did I screw up?
And the afternoon one is the onethat's in the video, and it came
(38:24):
off pretty good. I think.
Valerie Friedlander (38:30):
One of the last things that I asked people
on this podcast when I do aninterview is, what does it mean
to you to be unlimited? So Iwould love for you to answer
that question.
F. John Potter (38:43):
Yeah, I saw where you asked that. Well,
maybe it's like Buzz Lightyearto infinity and beyond. I think
for me, it's been more and thisgoes back into my childhood
where it didn't work to mybenefit, that I was more aware
(39:06):
of my limitations. What does itmean to be unlimited? I'm not
sure I can agree with thatquestion.
Valerie Friedlander (39:16):
Well, I've had people kind of reframe it of
like, I don't think I am, and Idon't think we should be, and I
think this about that idea ofunlimitedness. I mean, the
podcast is called unlimitedmostly because of how much we
allow other people to limit us.
Because I think we do need to belimited. We need to create a
container for ourselves, but weneed to recognize, you know, mom
(39:39):
would always say the realm ofall possibilities, and that's
kind of overwhelming, and itnever really worked for me. But
I think it's helpful to knowthat there is a realm of all
possibilities. I'm just choosingto create my own space in that,
not just to be like everywhereall the things.
F. John Potter (39:59):
You know, if you're in the middle of the
ocean, all you see is water allaround you, and it looks totally
unlimited forever, but if youstart swimming, eventually you
come to land. I'm more focusedon what have I allowed myself to
be limited by? And I don't havethe ability to run anymore. I
(40:21):
used to love to jog. Jogging wasmy passion, because it's, it's
an individual activity. I am notcompeting against anyone, I
except myself. And even there,I'm not really competing,
because some days I know I'mgoing to be able to go longer,
faster and other than otherdays, but I can't run anymore
(40:46):
because I broke a bone in myfoot. And if I walk, no problem.
If I run, where that breakhappened, my foot starts saying,
you don't want to do this. Didyou hear me? You don't want to
do this. So to be unlimited isto be aware of what limitations
(41:11):
I have, which ones arepermanent, which ones will
change over time, and which oneshave I imposed on myself? So to
be unlimited is for me beingaware of my limitations. I'm
almost 75, years old. There arethings that I can't do anymore,
(41:35):
but I have ways around them. OrI mean, I don't have diabetes,
but a diabetic is not likely togo, ooh, birthday cake. Give me
two pieces. They havelimitations. Sometimes those
limitations are because of pastchoices. Sometimes they're
genetic. I mean, they could bereligious. If you're an Orthodox
(42:00):
Jew, you probably won't eatbacon no matter how good it
smells when it's cooking. It's alimit, yeah, deliberate,
intentional. Are my limitsintentional?
Valerie Friedlander (42:14):
And when you want to feel that unlimited
feeling, that expansive feeling,if you will, what song would you
choose to listen to?
F. John Potter (42:26):
Well, I'm glad you asked that question. Purple
Haze by Jimi Hendrix.
Valerie Friedlander (42:32):
Awesome. I will add that to the Spotify
playlist.
F. John Potter (42:39):
Also Pink Floyd the wall, the whole album. Now
you've got to put the wholealbum on the playlist.
Valerie Friedlander (42:48):
So that's an interesting choice. What
about that makes you feelunlimited?
F. John Potter (42:53):
Well, my older daughter and I used to spend a
lot of time in the car together,going to voice lessons and
getting driven to school andpicked up, and I had that on a
cassette tape. This goes back afew years. The totos were alone
(43:14):
in the car together. Thatcassette tape was popped in, and
wherever it did stop playing, itwould start playing again and
again and again and again andagain.
Valerie Friedlander (43:26):
So it was played unlimitedly.
F. John Potter (43:29):
It was played unlimited times over a number of
years. Yep, and that is one ofmy favorite driving music, not
with my wife. It's not hermusic, but it's our music. She
likes it, but she wouldn't wantto listen to it over and over
and over, whereas my olderdaughter and I could, I'm sure
(43:55):
you and I could too.
Valerie Friedlander (43:57):
Yeah, probably given that we're one of
the same person.
F. John Potter (44:01):
Well, yeah, at the time.
Valerie Friedlander (44:03):
I mean, it's true. Well. Thank you dad
for joining me for thisconversation. I've really
enjoyed it, and I look forwardto sharing it.
F. John Potter (44:16):
Very good.
Valerie Friedlander (44:17):
Thanks for listening. I so appreciate you
being here. If you got somethingout of today's episode, please
share it, leave me a review,take a screenshot and post it on
social with a shout out to me,send it to a friend or, you
know, all of the above. Want tohang out more, join me on
Instagram, or, better yet, geton my mailing list to make sure
you don't miss out on anything,and remember your possibilities
(44:41):
are as unlimited as you are.
Allow yourself to shine, myfriend, the world needs your
light. See you next time.
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