July 29, 2025 • 28 mins
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What if you could design a life where your work and passions aligned perfectly? In this eye-opening conversation, author and self-described "passionpreneur" George Appling reveals how he built businesses around what truly lights him up – including a medieval theme park where he literally plays dress-up and swings swords for a living.
But not everyone needs to merge work and passion completely. Drawing from his bestselling book "Don't Settle," George outlines five distinct paths for creating fulfillment: the Passion Path (making your passion your livelihood), the Independent Path (keeping work and passion separate), the Experiment Path (trying different experiences to find your spark), the Money Path (prioritizing financial security), and the Balance Path (strategically building capabilities before transitioning to passion-based work).
Through colorful examples – from musicians who structure frugal lifestyles around their art to volleyball enthusiasts who fund their weekend games with corporate careers – George demonstrates that there's no one-size-fits-all approach to creating a meaningful life. The key is intentional choice rather than drifting into society's default expectations.
Perhaps most valuable is George's insight about finding meaning in whatever work you're currently doing. Using the parable of three bricklayers, he illustrates how the same job can be viewed as just a paycheck, a career path, or a meaningful calling. Those who find greater purpose tend to be happier and more successful, regardless of their chosen path.
Whether you're just starting your career journey or feeling stuck decades in, this conversation offers a refreshing framework for aligning your work with what truly matters to you. Take the first step by visiting George's website and discovering which of the five paths best fits your unique situation and aspirations.
To learn more about George Appling, please visit:
https://www.georgeappling.com/book-and-speaking
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatima Bey (00:04):
This is MindShift Power Podcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, fatima Bey, theMindShifter, and welcome
everyone.
Today we have with us GeorgeAppling.
(00:26):
He is out of Texas in theUnited States.
He is an author and apassionpreneur.
We're going to talk about thattoday.
How are you doing today, george?
George Appling (00:36):
I'm great Satima .
How are you?
Fatima Bey (00:39):
I'm good.
I'm looking forward to thisconversation because you have a
lot of stuff to talk about today, so tell us about your
background, and why should weeven listen to you?
George Appling (00:49):
It's a great question.
Why should you listen to me?
I think because I play, dressup and swing swords at my
friends for a living.
Fatima Bey (00:56):
Okay, that sounds worthwhile.
George Appling (01:00):
It's actually true.
I really do play dress-up andswing swords at my friends for a
living.
That's what I do.
I'm going to be playingdress-up and swinging swords at
my friends all day for the next40 days.
Fatima Bey (01:12):
Okay, you have to explain that, because it just
sounds weird by itself.
George Appling (01:15):
It is weird.
It's also beautiful.
So a lot of Americans haveheard of a Renaissance Festival
and it's a theme park whereyou're pretending to be in the
past.
I own and operate a show calledSherwood Forest Fair and it's a
medieval theme park.
So we're pretending we're inthe 1190s and we'll have
thousands and thousands ofpeople here and we're all
(01:39):
dressed up and waiting for RobinHood to save the day While
people are watching jousting andeating turkey legs and watching
falconry and jugglers and allthis good stuff.
And that's in the spring.
And now in the summer we have asummer camp for kids and it's
kind of the same idea.
We have about 130 kids a weekfor four weeks and they're
learning blacksmithing andleatherworking and sword
fighting and horse riding andarchery, and we're waiting for
Robin Hood to save the day.
(02:00):
So that's what I'm doing forthe next four weeks.
Fatima Bey (02:03):
Now, what does that have to do with being a
passionpreneur?
George Appling (02:07):
Yeah.
So a passionpreneur is someonewho builds businesses that they
are genuinely passionate about,and so my summer camp and my
medieval fair are businessesthat I'm genuinely passionate
about.
Fatima Bey (02:27):
So that's where the passion comes from.
George Appling (02:31):
So that's why we should listen to you because
you're living exactly whatyou're talking about today.
Yeah, I'm definitely living mydream.
I made a decision a long timeago that I wanted my business
skills and my genuine passionsto be married, basically, and so
, yeah, I am definitely livingthe dream of living a life that
I designed for myself veryintentionally.
Fatima Bey (02:51):
And I absolutely love that and believe in it very
strongly, which is we both havethat same passion.
It's something that I teach aswell, so I said that you're an
author, so tell us about Don'tSettle.
George Appling (03:04):
Right, so Don't Settle is my book.
It hit Amazon number one whenit launched back in October of
2024.
So it's going well.
The book is a framework throughwhich the reader can choose the
relationship between their workand their passion.
Now, that's not to say thatyour work and your passion have
to be the same thing.
Now, that's not to say thatyour work and your passion have
(03:25):
to be the same thing.
It might be, but it doesn'thave to be.
The framework leads the readerto choose one of five paths, and
each of the five paths is adifferent way for your work and
your passion to relate to oneanother.
Fatima Bey (03:39):
I can walk through the five real fast if you'd like
, oh absolutely.
George Appling (03:41):
What's the first one?
The first one is passion, andthat's where your passion and
your work are the same thing.
So of course that's a choice,it's just not the only one.
Then there's the independentpath, which is kind of the
opposite.
It's where your passion andyour work don't have anything to
do with one another.
The third is the experimentpath, which means you're trying
(04:02):
things and exposing yourself tothe world and maybe hopping
around to look for that sparkand try to find what it is that
you're passionate about.
The fourth is the money path.
We all know people who aredriven to be rich and so they
are chasing the almighty dollarand there's a certain set of
criteria at which that's theright thing for you to do.
(04:37):
And then there's the balancepath, which is what I did.
The balance path is you wantyour passion and your work to be
the same thing, but it capital,capabilities, reputation, brand
build what you need so thatwhen you are following your
passion later, your probabilityof success is higher.
Those are the five pathspassion, independent, experiment
, money and balanced.
Fatima Bey (04:56):
Okay, so your book Don't Settle is about those five
pathways.
Yes, and it's the frameworkthrough which each reader
chooses the one that's right forthem, so let's walk through
them.
So let's walk through a littlebit more in detail of the first
one.
What does that look like?
George Appling (05:16):
The Passion Path .
First of all, I'll start withwho it's for.
My book is largely targeted atyoung people.
That being said, people of allages have read it and told me
they get value out of it, butthe primary audience is young
people.
So the passion path meaning thepassion now path tends to be
for people who they know how tomonetize a passion, meaning they
(05:40):
have a passion and they knowthey can make money from it and
their need for financialsecurity is relatively low.
So if your need for financialsecurity is relatively low and
you know you can make money witha passion, yeah, go do that.
And that can be anything.
I mean, I've got a friend who Ihold up as a great example of
(06:01):
the passion path.
Her name is Roxanne and she's amusician, a band leader, and
she's got this beautiful bandcalled Wine and Alchemy and
they've been performing atRenaissance festivals for 18
years.
And she realized as a youngperson that she wasn't going to
be fulfilled unless she wasmaking music.
Like there's really justnothing else that lit her up
(06:25):
except for making music.
And she also realized theprobability of financial success
is low.
The percentage of musicians whodo very well financially is a
very low number.
So what she did being anintentional person is she
structured her life so that shecould live very frugally Great
example life.
(06:48):
So that she could live veryfrugally A great example.
She'll go to Spain and put herhat in the plaza and play music
for a day and get 200 euro putinto her hat.
And then day two she's atourist.
And day three she puts her hatdown, plays music, gets 200 euro
.
Day four, she's a tourist.
And so she chose 18 years agothat she was going to structure
her life to be low cost, becauseshe was going to follow her
(07:11):
heart and she knew theprobability of huge financial
success is low.
And knowing that, understandingthat and making that
intentional choice, I think, iswhat has led her to be really
fulfilled, because she's notdisappointed.
She knew this was going to bethe way.
Fatima Bey (07:28):
So that sounds like the first one is someone who
follows is more fulfilled bypassion than money.
George Appling (07:37):
Yes, that's true .
Yeah, that's true.
If your need for financialsecurity is high, following the
passion path as a young personis, I think, a recipe for
disappointment.
Fatima Bey (07:49):
Yeah, it can be, and that disappointment can turn
into disaster because of what itdoes to that person emotionally
and mentally.
Absolutely 100% and then youfeel like they feel like a
failure, and that always causesus to be incompetent in every
other area.
When we feel like that, what is?
Let's take a deeper dive intopathway number two.
George Appling (08:13):
Yeah.
So pathway number two is theindependent path, and that's
where your passion and your workdon't have anything to do with
each other.
Don't have anything to do witheach other and that tends to be
for people who can't see theirway to making money at what
they're passionate about.
So if your only passion issmoking pot and playing video
(08:34):
games, you know, maybe you'renot going to do a good job of
making that your career, whereyou can make money.
Only when I say that I've got aprofessor friend of mine at
Texas A&M where I give my talk,my book talk a lot, and he says
you can monetize pot and you canmonetize video games.
I'm like, yeah, but you knowwhat You're probably not going
to.
So the independent path is yourpassion, or work or not related
(08:57):
.
I'll give an example.
I've got a drinking buddy inHouston named Mark and he's been
at the same company for 26years.
It's called InfrastructureServices and they build the
highways.
You ever wonder like who thefuck builds the highways?
You've got to have some reallysmart people who are really good
at math building the highways.
Well, that's Mark.
(09:18):
And Mark's passion is volleyball.
He would play volleyball eighthours a day, six days a week if
he could.
The problem is at a very earlyage, you know, 25 years ago Mark
realized he's 5'9".
He's not going to make a bunchof money playing volleyball.
So he realized, look, that'sthe only thing I want to do is
(09:39):
play volleyball At 5'9".
I'm not going to make a livingdoing that.
That's the only thing I want todo is play volleyball at 5'9".
I'm not going to make a livingdoing that.
I'm going to go make a livingsomewhere else, so that I can
pay the mortgage and pay forschool for my daughter, and then
I can play volleyball on theside.
And so that's the independentpath.
He likes his job, he's good atit, he makes good money, but it
is funding his volleyball habiton the weekends.
Fatima Bey (10:01):
I get that.
I'm going to use anotherexample.
I'm a dancer, I'm a salsadancer, I'm a huge salsa dancer
and in the dance world I knowpeople who are extremely
passionate about dancing.
You know like I am, and some ofthem run around from country to
country performing and theymake money at it.
(10:22):
They teach workshops, they makea living from it and they make
a decent living from it.
It can be a fun but hectic life, but they're passionate about
it and they love what they do.
And then I have people I knowpeople that are very passionate
about dancing but they are thatindependent.
They will not perform, theywill not teach, because once you
(10:43):
add discipline and structure tothat fun thing, it can become
unfun for some people.
I think that sometimes I like tosee things married together,
but I can understand why.
That's a pathway, because youknow, for, like me, as a salsa
dancer, I have performed.
However, I don't really want to.
(11:04):
I don't, I don't want toperform, I don't want to be the
best dancer before.
I don't care.
I like the dancing for thedancing, I'm passionate about it
.
It's totally separate.
I'm not planning on makingmoney on it because I think that
would ruin it for me.
George Appling (11:19):
A hundred percent and that's you know,
when I talk to young peopleabout this or give my talk,
there's a couple of greatexamples of monetizing a passion
that tends to fail.
For example, painting.
When you're passionate aboutpainting and you are putting
your soul into the canvas toshow it to the world, you're
(11:40):
living your dream and you are,you're expressing your, your,
your spirit.
But when you're getting paid todo it and it's someone else's
idea of what you're going topaint and it's on a deadline and
there's a price tag on it, it'svery common for people who were
passionate about painting, Oncethey start getting paid for it,
the passion goes away.
Fatima Bey (12:01):
Yeah, I get that.
I really I get that, yeah.
So what is the third one?
George Appling (12:08):
The third one is the experiment path.
So the experiment path ismostly for people who don't know
what their passion is.
And especially when you're whenyou're talking about you know,
say, 18 to 20 year olds, youknow a good third of them will
say I don't know what my passionis.
So the experiment path is abouttrying things, and it could be
(12:29):
trying different organizations,like different business sectors,
like telecom or e-commerce orenergy.
It could be trying differentnon-government organizations.
It could be trying differentgovernment jobs.
It can be trying differentthings in different countries.
It's about trying a lot ofdifferent things and just
(12:50):
looking for that spark, activelyseeking something that you're
passionate about, something thatanimates you and lights you up.
And then in the book, of course, there are certain guidelines
around hopping around A personlike me.
Back when I used to be in thereal world, I would screen
hundreds of resumes a year andif I saw someone who changed
(13:11):
jobs every year or two, I wouldsay to myself and my team well,
they don't have the loyalty gene, so put the resume in the trash
can, and so when you're hoppingaround and experimenting, you
have to just be careful thatyou're not painting a picture of
yourself as not having aloyalty gene.
So you can hop around differentfunctions within a company, for
(13:32):
example.
So let's say you're working atsome big company like HP.
You can try sales and marketingand procurement and supply
chain finance and you can try awhole product development.
You can try a bunch ofdifferent things, but you're not
leaving the organization.
Even in nonprofits you can trydifferent roles, and so I
caution people to not changeorganizations every year or two
(13:57):
for 10 years, because it's goingto look like you're not worth
investing in as an employer.
Fatima Bey (14:03):
That is a good point .
I want to piggyback off of thata little bit and just, I think
we're very often our youth aretaught there's only one way to
do things you have to go tocollege or have to go to trade
school.
You can never change, and Ithink that's not true.
I think you don't know what youwant to do until you try.
You know, you might decide Ireally think that I want to work
(14:24):
with cars.
So you work with cars a littlebit and then you decide, no, I
don't like cars.
So then you move on to themedical field or you move on to
working at a restaurant andyou're like oh my God, I love
working with food.
This is it.
But you don't know until youtry.
You really really there'snothing wrong with you if you
try.
George Appling (14:44):
Yeah, a%.
I mean that's the way you learn, right?
One of the great examples ofthat there's a kind of a
biography by Matthew McConaughey.
It's called Green Lights and hewent to Australia when he was
young and just did like eightdifferent jobs over a year and
completely different things.
It was almost like anexperiment internship program
where he just did a couple ofmonths of this and a couple of
(15:07):
months of that and he just gotexposed to things.
And I think that's the best wayto find that spark is to give
things a try.
And so, especially if you don'tknow what you're passionate
about, but do anything, Go trysomething, and if you don't like
it you'll have learnedsomething.
You'll have learned and youdon't like it, so then go try
something else.
And so that's kind of the heartof the experiment path is just
(15:28):
keep trying things and be opento the spark.
Fatima Bey (15:32):
And don't let anyone tell you that there's something
wrong with you because youhaven't figured it out yet.
George Appling (15:38):
Absolutely.
Fatima Bey (15:39):
There are people who are stuck in dead-end jobs that
they absolutely hate, who are50 years old because they never
tried.
They just work to pay bills andthey're miserable.
So you don't want to be throughthose with each other.
George Appling (16:04):
I think people fall into that by default.
I think that's what the worldwill do to you if you don't make
this decision on your own, andI think if you choose the
independent path, you are goingto be much more fulfilled than
if the world chooses theindependent path for you.
Fatima Bey (16:17):
Very true, good point, and what is that?
Fourth one again.
And what is that?
George Appling (16:20):
fourth one again Money, money, money, money.
So my exemplar for this is anauthor named Scott Galloway,
really cool guy.
He's a professor at New YorkState University in the Stern
Business School, super, superneat guy and he was on the money
path and he kind of went intoinvestment banking and made just
(16:43):
unholy fuck tons of money andbut it's very understandable how
he got there.
So when he was a kid he grew upin a very low income household
and what?
And it was up north likewisconsin or something where it
gets cold.
I'm in texas it doesn't reallyget cold here and he lost his
winter jacket once and he wasafraid to tell his mother that
he lost his winter jacketbecause he knew that $30 to buy
(17:04):
a new one would really hurt.
And so then, you know, the momhad to see him come home from
school shivering and say where'syour coat?
And he had to tell her that helost it.
So that scarred him and then inhis 20s his mother got cancer
and they couldn't afford some ofthe treatments that could have
been helpful to her until he gotscarred again, and so he just
(17:26):
was driven to be financiallysecure.
So when I was talking aboutpassion, if you want to follow
your passion as a young person,your kind of need for financial
security should be low.
There are people whose need forfinancial security is high, and
for those people the money pathis an option.
Now I would like to think thatyou know you pursue that path
(17:47):
for a while and then hopefully,you'll stop and get off of it
and go do something that's moregood for the world, more aligned
with what you love.
Fatima Bey (17:55):
But I think it's fair game to go follow the money
path if that's what you need todo, to go follow the mind path
if that's what you need to do, Iwould say yes, just make sure
it doesn't become your God andcause you to do things that put
you in jail or worse.
Yeah, absolutely.
George Appling (18:17):
And that's one of these heuristics that I bump
into a lot.
I think when it comes to wealth, there are two different
mindsets.
There's more is better andenough is enough, and I think,
in general, the enough is enoughpeople are happy and the more
is better people are not.
Fatima Bey (18:31):
I would agree.
I think you're exactly right,because here's case in point If
more was better, we wouldn'thave any miserable rich people,
we wouldn't have rehab centersthat are set up just for the
rich and famous, we wouldn'thave Elon Musk on stage tweaking
out the richest man in theworld, prime example.
(18:54):
If it was enough fulfillment,financial security, absolutely
seek after that.
There's nothing wrong with that, like you just said.
But if you're looking for it tofill happiness, it won't Not by
itself.
Anyway It'll fill some stuff,but it won't fill happiness
enough.
And I say that because,unfortunately, our society does
(19:17):
teach that sometimes and thereare people who follow that and
they make that mistake andthat's why they end up on the
news.
George Appling (19:26):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
I think it's one of the mostimportant things.
That for successful people toget their head around is enough
is enough is a much healthiermindset than more is better.
More is better as a trap.
It's an absolute trap.
You can never get out of it.
It's hard to get out of it.
Fatima Bey (19:43):
And it leaves you miserable.
And why live that kind of life?
I got all this stuff and I'munhappy.
Well, you are, because you'retrying to put a square peg into
a round hole and it doesn't fit.
George Appling (19:54):
That's it, that's it.
Fatima Bey (19:57):
So let's talk about my favorite one, the last one.
George Appling (20:00):
The balance path .
So that's the path that I did.
I'm a big fan of the balancepath.
In fact, I've got a littlefive-minute quiz on my website,
georgeaplingcom, where you canspend the five minutes and
answer a bunch of questions andit will tell you the path that's
right for you.
And balance path is number one.
So the good news if each pathhad an equal audience, there
(20:23):
would be 20 each, but my, mydata set, which is in the
thousands, now, balanced isnumber one at 26 and I think uh,
the passion now path.
No, it's the.
Yeah, the passion now path isthe lowest at 14.
Oh, but that's good.
Like, if everything's between14 and 26, each of the five
(20:45):
paths has has its audience.
Okay, now if, if one of thepaths had 72 percent of the
people choose it and anotherpath had four percent, that
means my definitions aren't verygood, but anyway.
So balance path is number oneat 26 and what it is is.
You do have a goal of monetizinga passion, or making your
(21:05):
passion and your work the samething, but you're going to do it
later and you're going to spenda certain number of years might
be five, might be 20, gettingwhat it takes to maximize the
probability of success when youdo marry your work and your
passion, and that may meanaccumulating some wealth,
(21:26):
because what you want to do whenyou're passionate to work for
the same needs capital.
It may mean developingcapabilities.
It may mean developing brand ornetwork.
So it's being very intentionalabout what do I need over the
next 5, 10, 15 years to makesure that when I switch over to
(21:47):
following a passion, it's goingto be okay and then going after
that, like it may mean you needdigital marketing skills.
It may mean you need publicspeaking skills.
It may mean whatever the keysuccess factors are for you know
, monetizing your passion latergo get that.
Fatima Bey (22:06):
Yes, it may, and let's talk about some of the
other ways it may look like,because I think sometimes people
don't get this and it makesthem either get looked at as a
loser or less than or they feelthat way themselves.
It may look like working atMcDonald's today while you're in
school so that you can becomethat stockbroker tomorrow.
(22:28):
You know you may be working atHome Depot today while you're in
school, or working a side gigso that you can build that
empire.
That side gig is not reliableenough right now to pay the
bills.
Home Depot is, but you'rebuilding and building and
building it so you can leaveHome Depot and it could be your
full source income.
And I think that sometimes weneed to just keep reminding our
(22:52):
youth that that is okay to do.
In fact, it's smart.
George Appling (22:59):
And so I think, yeah, 100%.
The other kind of mental hack Iwould suggest is if you look
for the social good in your work, you're going to be happier and
more productive and get raisesmore and all this stuff.
Great story called the parableof the bricklayer, and I like it
(23:22):
because when I tell it I get toset it in the 1190s in england,
which is where I spend as muchof my time as possible.
So imagine a psychologist goesto medieval england and she goes
to a cathedral being built andshe walks up to a bricklayer and
says what are you doing likebricks?
Why?
Well, I got bills to pay, okay,for that brick layer.
It's a job.
(23:42):
She goes to the next one andsays what are you doing laying
bricks?
Why?
Well, this project will last myentire lifetime.
So if I do a good job, I canget promoted and I can keep
doing this and I can make it goover this as a career.
I can do this for 25 years.
For that person it's a career,it's a profession.
And she goes to the thirdbricklayer and says what are you
(24:05):
doing laying bricks, why?
And the third bricklayer saysI'm helping to build the house
of God and we will save millionsof souls over thousands of
years.
Well, for that person, the jobis a calling, and it turns out
almost any job.
There is about a third of thepeople think of it as a job, a
third of people think about itas a profession and a third
think of it as a company.
Fatima Bey (24:25):
So it takes you know , think Starbucks.
George Appling (24:28):
You know a third of the Starbucks baristas think
I do this job because I gotbills to pay.
A third think this is a bigcompany.
Fatima Bey (25:03):
I could make a go of this.
I could become a store manager.
I could become a regionalmanager.
George Appling (25:05):
I could become a district manager, I can make a
go of this.
Fatima Bey (25:08):
That's a profession, and there's a third of the
people that think you know I'mbringing the first smile of the
day to 300 people.
I think that's a good use of mytime.
Well, that's a calling, and ifyou can view your work as a
calling, you will bestatistically significantly
happier.
You're also going to getpromoted faster and make more
money, and I would love foreveryone to find that place.
Yeah, I believe that mostpeople can, and I think that
that's where a lot ofinnovations come from too, and a
lot of entrepreneurships canstart that way, and I love that.
George Appling (25:26):
Well, George, I would like for you to tell
people where they can find you.
My website is georgeapplingcomA-P-P-L-I-N-G, and that's where
you can find me and my book.
And you know, there's all sortsof goofy things that I do with
swords and horses and stuff, andyou can see some of that there
as well.
Fatima Bey (25:45):
Yes, you guys.
I will put a link to his pagetalking about these five
pathways on his website.
But if you explore the rest ofhis website, he's not joking.
He really thinks that WilliamShakespeare is his brother and
we'll call him.
George Appling (25:57):
Bill.
Fatima Bey (26:00):
Exactly All kinds of pictures of him and other
people doing what are theycalled jousting.
George Appling (26:07):
Sure, there's plenty of jousting going on.
Fatima Bey (26:09):
Yes, there's all kinds of just really interesting
things going on there.
One of the reasons I had you onthe show is I could see, even
before I met you, the passionthat you have for what you do,
and that's what I love.
I don't like to have guests onwho just can give us information
, so what Not impressive?
What's impressive is that youlive what you're talking about
and that you actually you lovewhat you're doing.
(26:32):
We can hear it in your voice, Ican see it in your face and if
you go to his website you canactually see it in his pictures
Like you're having fun, you'relike a big kid in a candy store,
and we all need to have thatfeeling with what we do.
I think so.
Not everybody will, and I knowthat, but for me, I need to feel
that way with what I'm doing,which is why I do all that I do.
(26:52):
I enjoy helping people grow andwatching other people rise.
Nothing excites me more thanwatching someone become who
they're supposed to be.
That's where I get my joy.
I want to do all my backflips.
So once again, george, thankyou so much for coming on.
You're a really cool guy andI'm glad we met.
And thank you.
George Appling (27:15):
Thank you for having me, Fatima.
That was a blast.
Fatima Bey (27:19):
And now for a mind-shifting moment.
Out of everything that was saidtoday, I want you to think
about this which one are you?
How are you living your life?
Do you have a life full ofpassion that you're living out
while working a job to pay thebills?
(27:40):
Or are you just working a jobto pay your bills, with no
passion outlet in your life?
Or are you living out yourpassion and also using it to pay
your bills?
I want you to think about whereyou are in your life right now.
And if you don't like what yousee, which one would you like to
(28:01):
change it into?
What would you like to do?
And if you're young and youhaven't decided yet, which one
do you want?
Which one do you think betterfits you?
Now is the time to examinewhere you are versus where you
want to be.
You've been listening to mindshift power podcast.
(28:25):
For complete show notes on thisepisode and to join our global
movement, find us atfatimabaycom until next time.
Always remember there's powerin shifting your thinking.
This is MindShift Power Podcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, fatima Bey, theMindShifter, and welcome
everyone.
Today we have with us GeorgeAppling.
(00:26):
He is out of Texas in theUnited States.
He is an author and apassionpreneur.
We're going to talk about thattoday.
How are you doing today, george?
George Appling (00:36):
I'm great Satima .
How are you?
Fatima Bey (00:39):
I'm good.
I'm looking forward to thisconversation because you have a
lot of stuff to talk about today, so tell us about your
background, and why should weeven listen to you?
George Appling (00:49):
It's a great question.
Why should you listen to me?
I think because I play, dressup and swing swords at my
friends for a living.
Fatima Bey (00:56):
Okay, that sounds worthwhile.
George Appling (01:00):
It's actually true.
I really do play dress-up andswing swords at my friends for a
living.
That's what I do.
I'm going to be playingdress-up and swinging swords at
my friends all day for the next40 days.
Fatima Bey (01:12):
Okay, you have to explain that, because it just
sounds weird by itself.
George Appling (01:15):
It is weird.
It's also beautiful.
So a lot of Americans haveheard of a Renaissance Festival
and it's a theme park whereyou're pretending to be in the
past.
I own and operate a show calledSherwood Forest Fair and it's a
medieval theme park.
So we're pretending we're inthe 1190s and we'll have
thousands and thousands ofpeople here and we're all
(01:39):
dressed up and waiting for RobinHood to save the day While
people are watching jousting andeating turkey legs and watching
falconry and jugglers and allthis good stuff.
And that's in the spring.
And now in the summer we have asummer camp for kids and it's
kind of the same idea.
We have about 130 kids a weekfor four weeks and they're
learning blacksmithing andleatherworking and sword
fighting and horse riding andarchery, and we're waiting for
Robin Hood to save the day.
(02:00):
So that's what I'm doing forthe next four weeks.
Fatima Bey (02:03):
Now, what does that have to do with being a
passionpreneur?
George Appling (02:07):
Yeah.
So a passionpreneur is someonewho builds businesses that they
are genuinely passionate about,and so my summer camp and my
medieval fair are businessesthat I'm genuinely passionate
about.
Fatima Bey (02:27):
So that's where the passion comes from.
George Appling (02:31):
So that's why we should listen to you because
you're living exactly whatyou're talking about today.
Yeah, I'm definitely living mydream.
I made a decision a long timeago that I wanted my business
skills and my genuine passionsto be married, basically, and so
, yeah, I am definitely livingthe dream of living a life that
I designed for myself veryintentionally.
Fatima Bey (02:51):
And I absolutely love that and believe in it very
strongly, which is we both havethat same passion.
It's something that I teach aswell, so I said that you're an
author, so tell us about Don'tSettle.
George Appling (03:04):
Right, so Don't Settle is my book.
It hit Amazon number one whenit launched back in October of
2024.
So it's going well.
The book is a framework throughwhich the reader can choose the
relationship between their workand their passion.
Now, that's not to say thatyour work and your passion have
to be the same thing.
Now, that's not to say thatyour work and your passion have
(03:25):
to be the same thing.
It might be, but it doesn'thave to be.
The framework leads the readerto choose one of five paths, and
each of the five paths is adifferent way for your work and
your passion to relate to oneanother.
Fatima Bey (03:39):
I can walk through the five real fast if you'd like
, oh absolutely.
George Appling (03:41):
What's the first one?
The first one is passion, andthat's where your passion and
your work are the same thing.
So of course that's a choice,it's just not the only one.
Then there's the independentpath, which is kind of the
opposite.
It's where your passion andyour work don't have anything to
do with one another.
The third is the experimentpath, which means you're trying
(04:02):
things and exposing yourself tothe world and maybe hopping
around to look for that sparkand try to find what it is that
you're passionate about.
The fourth is the money path.
We all know people who aredriven to be rich and so they
are chasing the almighty dollarand there's a certain set of
criteria at which that's theright thing for you to do.
(04:37):
And then there's the balancepath, which is what I did.
The balance path is you wantyour passion and your work to be
the same thing, but it capital,capabilities, reputation, brand
build what you need so thatwhen you are following your
passion later, your probabilityof success is higher.
Those are the five pathspassion, independent, experiment
, money and balanced.
Fatima Bey (04:56):
Okay, so your book Don't Settle is about those five
pathways.
Yes, and it's the frameworkthrough which each reader
chooses the one that's right forthem, so let's walk through
them.
So let's walk through a littlebit more in detail of the first
one.
What does that look like?
George Appling (05:16):
The Passion Path .
First of all, I'll start withwho it's for.
My book is largely targeted atyoung people.
That being said, people of allages have read it and told me
they get value out of it, butthe primary audience is young
people.
So the passion path meaning thepassion now path tends to be
for people who they know how tomonetize a passion, meaning they
(05:40):
have a passion and they knowthey can make money from it and
their need for financialsecurity is relatively low.
So if your need for financialsecurity is relatively low and
you know you can make money witha passion, yeah, go do that.
And that can be anything.
I mean, I've got a friend who Ihold up as a great example of
(06:01):
the passion path.
Her name is Roxanne and she's amusician, a band leader, and
she's got this beautiful bandcalled Wine and Alchemy and
they've been performing atRenaissance festivals for 18
years.
And she realized as a youngperson that she wasn't going to
be fulfilled unless she wasmaking music.
Like there's really justnothing else that lit her up
(06:25):
except for making music.
And she also realized theprobability of financial success
is low.
The percentage of musicians whodo very well financially is a
very low number.
So what she did being anintentional person is she
structured her life so that shecould live very frugally Great
example life.
(06:48):
So that she could live veryfrugally A great example.
She'll go to Spain and put herhat in the plaza and play music
for a day and get 200 euro putinto her hat.
And then day two she's atourist.
And day three she puts her hatdown, plays music, gets 200 euro
.
Day four, she's a tourist.
And so she chose 18 years agothat she was going to structure
her life to be low cost, becauseshe was going to follow her
(07:11):
heart and she knew theprobability of huge financial
success is low.
And knowing that, understandingthat and making that
intentional choice, I think, iswhat has led her to be really
fulfilled, because she's notdisappointed.
She knew this was going to bethe way.
Fatima Bey (07:28):
So that sounds like the first one is someone who
follows is more fulfilled bypassion than money.
George Appling (07:37):
Yes, that's true .
Yeah, that's true.
If your need for financialsecurity is high, following the
passion path as a young personis, I think, a recipe for
disappointment.
Fatima Bey (07:49):
Yeah, it can be, and that disappointment can turn
into disaster because of what itdoes to that person emotionally
and mentally.
Absolutely 100% and then youfeel like they feel like a
failure, and that always causesus to be incompetent in every
other area.
When we feel like that, what is?
Let's take a deeper dive intopathway number two.
George Appling (08:13):
Yeah.
So pathway number two is theindependent path, and that's
where your passion and your workdon't have anything to do with
each other.
Don't have anything to do witheach other and that tends to be
for people who can't see theirway to making money at what
they're passionate about.
So if your only passion issmoking pot and playing video
(08:34):
games, you know, maybe you'renot going to do a good job of
making that your career, whereyou can make money.
Only when I say that I've got aprofessor friend of mine at
Texas A&M where I give my talk,my book talk a lot, and he says
you can monetize pot and you canmonetize video games.
I'm like, yeah, but you knowwhat You're probably not going
to.
So the independent path is yourpassion, or work or not related
(08:57):
.
I'll give an example.
I've got a drinking buddy inHouston named Mark and he's been
at the same company for 26years.
It's called InfrastructureServices and they build the
highways.
You ever wonder like who thefuck builds the highways?
You've got to have some reallysmart people who are really good
at math building the highways.
Well, that's Mark.
(09:18):
And Mark's passion is volleyball.
He would play volleyball eighthours a day, six days a week if
he could.
The problem is at a very earlyage, you know, 25 years ago Mark
realized he's 5'9".
He's not going to make a bunchof money playing volleyball.
So he realized, look, that'sthe only thing I want to do is
(09:39):
play volleyball At 5'9".
I'm not going to make a livingdoing that.
That's the only thing I want todo is play volleyball at 5'9".
I'm not going to make a livingdoing that.
I'm going to go make a livingsomewhere else, so that I can
pay the mortgage and pay forschool for my daughter, and then
I can play volleyball on theside.
And so that's the independentpath.
He likes his job, he's good atit, he makes good money, but it
is funding his volleyball habiton the weekends.
Fatima Bey (10:01):
I get that.
I'm going to use anotherexample.
I'm a dancer, I'm a salsadancer, I'm a huge salsa dancer
and in the dance world I knowpeople who are extremely
passionate about dancing.
You know like I am, and some ofthem run around from country to
country performing and theymake money at it.
(10:22):
They teach workshops, they makea living from it and they make
a decent living from it.
It can be a fun but hectic life, but they're passionate about
it and they love what they do.
And then I have people I knowpeople that are very passionate
about dancing but they are thatindependent.
They will not perform, theywill not teach, because once you
(10:43):
add discipline and structure tothat fun thing, it can become
unfun for some people.
I think that sometimes I like tosee things married together,
but I can understand why.
That's a pathway, because youknow, for, like me, as a salsa
dancer, I have performed.
However, I don't really want to.
(11:04):
I don't, I don't want toperform, I don't want to be the
best dancer before.
I don't care.
I like the dancing for thedancing, I'm passionate about it
.
It's totally separate.
I'm not planning on makingmoney on it because I think that
would ruin it for me.
George Appling (11:19):
A hundred percent and that's you know,
when I talk to young peopleabout this or give my talk,
there's a couple of greatexamples of monetizing a passion
that tends to fail.
For example, painting.
When you're passionate aboutpainting and you are putting
your soul into the canvas toshow it to the world, you're
(11:40):
living your dream and you are,you're expressing your, your,
your spirit.
But when you're getting paid todo it and it's someone else's
idea of what you're going topaint and it's on a deadline and
there's a price tag on it, it'svery common for people who were
passionate about painting, Oncethey start getting paid for it,
the passion goes away.
Fatima Bey (12:01):
Yeah, I get that.
I really I get that, yeah.
So what is the third one?
George Appling (12:08):
The third one is the experiment path.
So the experiment path ismostly for people who don't know
what their passion is.
And especially when you're whenyou're talking about you know,
say, 18 to 20 year olds, youknow a good third of them will
say I don't know what my passionis.
So the experiment path is abouttrying things, and it could be
(12:29):
trying different organizations,like different business sectors,
like telecom or e-commerce orenergy.
It could be trying differentnon-government organizations.
It could be trying differentgovernment jobs.
It can be trying differentthings in different countries.
It's about trying a lot ofdifferent things and just
(12:50):
looking for that spark, activelyseeking something that you're
passionate about, something thatanimates you and lights you up.
And then in the book, of course, there are certain guidelines
around hopping around A personlike me.
Back when I used to be in thereal world, I would screen
hundreds of resumes a year andif I saw someone who changed
(13:11):
jobs every year or two, I wouldsay to myself and my team well,
they don't have the loyalty gene, so put the resume in the trash
can, and so when you're hoppingaround and experimenting, you
have to just be careful thatyou're not painting a picture of
yourself as not having aloyalty gene.
So you can hop around differentfunctions within a company, for
(13:32):
example.
So let's say you're working atsome big company like HP.
You can try sales and marketingand procurement and supply
chain finance and you can try awhole product development.
You can try a bunch ofdifferent things, but you're not
leaving the organization.
Even in nonprofits you can trydifferent roles, and so I
caution people to not changeorganizations every year or two
(13:57):
for 10 years, because it's goingto look like you're not worth
investing in as an employer.
Fatima Bey (14:03):
That is a good point .
I want to piggyback off of thata little bit and just, I think
we're very often our youth aretaught there's only one way to
do things you have to go tocollege or have to go to trade
school.
You can never change, and Ithink that's not true.
I think you don't know what youwant to do until you try.
You know, you might decide Ireally think that I want to work
(14:24):
with cars.
So you work with cars a littlebit and then you decide, no, I
don't like cars.
So then you move on to themedical field or you move on to
working at a restaurant andyou're like oh my God, I love
working with food.
This is it.
But you don't know until youtry.
You really really there'snothing wrong with you if you
try.
George Appling (14:44):
Yeah, a%.
I mean that's the way you learn, right?
One of the great examples ofthat there's a kind of a
biography by Matthew McConaughey.
It's called Green Lights and hewent to Australia when he was
young and just did like eightdifferent jobs over a year and
completely different things.
It was almost like anexperiment internship program
where he just did a couple ofmonths of this and a couple of
(15:07):
months of that and he just gotexposed to things.
And I think that's the best wayto find that spark is to give
things a try.
And so, especially if you don'tknow what you're passionate
about, but do anything, Go trysomething, and if you don't like
it you'll have learnedsomething.
You'll have learned and youdon't like it, so then go try
something else.
And so that's kind of the heartof the experiment path is just
(15:28):
keep trying things and be opento the spark.
Fatima Bey (15:32):
And don't let anyone tell you that there's something
wrong with you because youhaven't figured it out yet.
George Appling (15:38):
Absolutely.
Fatima Bey (15:39):
There are people who are stuck in dead-end jobs that
they absolutely hate, who are50 years old because they never
tried.
They just work to pay bills andthey're miserable.
So you don't want to be throughthose with each other.
George Appling (16:04):
I think people fall into that by default.
I think that's what the worldwill do to you if you don't make
this decision on your own, andI think if you choose the
independent path, you are goingto be much more fulfilled than
if the world chooses theindependent path for you.
Fatima Bey (16:17):
Very true, good point, and what is that?
Fourth one again.
And what is that?
George Appling (16:20):
fourth one again Money, money, money, money.
So my exemplar for this is anauthor named Scott Galloway,
really cool guy.
He's a professor at New YorkState University in the Stern
Business School, super, superneat guy and he was on the money
path and he kind of went intoinvestment banking and made just
(16:43):
unholy fuck tons of money andbut it's very understandable how
he got there.
So when he was a kid he grew upin a very low income household
and what?
And it was up north likewisconsin or something where it
gets cold.
I'm in texas it doesn't reallyget cold here and he lost his
winter jacket once and he wasafraid to tell his mother that
he lost his winter jacketbecause he knew that $30 to buy
(17:04):
a new one would really hurt.
And so then, you know, the momhad to see him come home from
school shivering and say where'syour coat?
And he had to tell her that helost it.
So that scarred him and then inhis 20s his mother got cancer
and they couldn't afford some ofthe treatments that could have
been helpful to her until he gotscarred again, and so he just
(17:26):
was driven to be financiallysecure.
So when I was talking aboutpassion, if you want to follow
your passion as a young person,your kind of need for financial
security should be low.
There are people whose need forfinancial security is high, and
for those people the money pathis an option.
Now I would like to think thatyou know you pursue that path
(17:47):
for a while and then hopefully,you'll stop and get off of it
and go do something that's moregood for the world, more aligned
with what you love.
Fatima Bey (17:55):
But I think it's fair game to go follow the money
path if that's what you need todo, to go follow the mind path
if that's what you need to do, Iwould say yes, just make sure
it doesn't become your God andcause you to do things that put
you in jail or worse.
Yeah, absolutely.
George Appling (18:17):
And that's one of these heuristics that I bump
into a lot.
I think when it comes to wealth, there are two different
mindsets.
There's more is better andenough is enough, and I think,
in general, the enough is enoughpeople are happy and the more
is better people are not.
Fatima Bey (18:31):
I would agree.
I think you're exactly right,because here's case in point If
more was better, we wouldn'thave any miserable rich people,
we wouldn't have rehab centersthat are set up just for the
rich and famous, we wouldn'thave Elon Musk on stage tweaking
out the richest man in theworld, prime example.
(18:54):
If it was enough fulfillment,financial security, absolutely
seek after that.
There's nothing wrong with that, like you just said.
But if you're looking for it tofill happiness, it won't Not by
itself.
Anyway It'll fill some stuff,but it won't fill happiness
enough.
And I say that because,unfortunately, our society does
(19:17):
teach that sometimes and thereare people who follow that and
they make that mistake andthat's why they end up on the
news.
George Appling (19:26):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
I think it's one of the mostimportant things.
That for successful people toget their head around is enough
is enough is a much healthiermindset than more is better.
More is better as a trap.
It's an absolute trap.
You can never get out of it.
It's hard to get out of it.
Fatima Bey (19:43):
And it leaves you miserable.
And why live that kind of life?
I got all this stuff and I'munhappy.
Well, you are, because you'retrying to put a square peg into
a round hole and it doesn't fit.
George Appling (19:54):
That's it, that's it.
Fatima Bey (19:57):
So let's talk about my favorite one, the last one.
George Appling (20:00):
The balance path .
So that's the path that I did.
I'm a big fan of the balancepath.
In fact, I've got a littlefive-minute quiz on my website,
georgeaplingcom, where you canspend the five minutes and
answer a bunch of questions andit will tell you the path that's
right for you.
And balance path is number one.
So the good news if each pathhad an equal audience, there
(20:23):
would be 20 each, but my, mydata set, which is in the
thousands, now, balanced isnumber one at 26 and I think uh,
the passion now path.
No, it's the.
Yeah, the passion now path isthe lowest at 14.
Oh, but that's good.
Like, if everything's between14 and 26, each of the five
(20:45):
paths has has its audience.
Okay, now if, if one of thepaths had 72 percent of the
people choose it and anotherpath had four percent, that
means my definitions aren't verygood, but anyway.
So balance path is number oneat 26 and what it is is.
You do have a goal of monetizinga passion, or making your
(21:05):
passion and your work the samething, but you're going to do it
later and you're going to spenda certain number of years might
be five, might be 20, gettingwhat it takes to maximize the
probability of success when youdo marry your work and your
passion, and that may meanaccumulating some wealth,
(21:26):
because what you want to do whenyou're passionate to work for
the same needs capital.
It may mean developingcapabilities.
It may mean developing brand ornetwork.
So it's being very intentionalabout what do I need over the
next 5, 10, 15 years to makesure that when I switch over to
(21:47):
following a passion, it's goingto be okay and then going after
that, like it may mean you needdigital marketing skills.
It may mean you need publicspeaking skills.
It may mean whatever the keysuccess factors are for you know
, monetizing your passion latergo get that.
Fatima Bey (22:06):
Yes, it may, and let's talk about some of the
other ways it may look like,because I think sometimes people
don't get this and it makesthem either get looked at as a
loser or less than or they feelthat way themselves.
It may look like working atMcDonald's today while you're in
school so that you can becomethat stockbroker tomorrow.
(22:28):
You know you may be working atHome Depot today while you're in
school, or working a side gigso that you can build that
empire.
That side gig is not reliableenough right now to pay the
bills.
Home Depot is, but you'rebuilding and building and
building it so you can leaveHome Depot and it could be your
full source income.
And I think that sometimes weneed to just keep reminding our
(22:52):
youth that that is okay to do.
In fact, it's smart.
George Appling (22:59):
And so I think, yeah, 100%.
The other kind of mental hack Iwould suggest is if you look
for the social good in your work, you're going to be happier and
more productive and get raisesmore and all this stuff.
Great story called the parableof the bricklayer, and I like it
(23:22):
because when I tell it I get toset it in the 1190s in england,
which is where I spend as muchof my time as possible.
So imagine a psychologist goesto medieval england and she goes
to a cathedral being built andshe walks up to a bricklayer and
says what are you doing likebricks?
Why?
Well, I got bills to pay, okay,for that brick layer.
It's a job.
(23:42):
She goes to the next one andsays what are you doing laying
bricks?
Why?
Well, this project will last myentire lifetime.
So if I do a good job, I canget promoted and I can keep
doing this and I can make it goover this as a career.
I can do this for 25 years.
For that person it's a career,it's a profession.
And she goes to the thirdbricklayer and says what are you
(24:05):
doing laying bricks, why?
And the third bricklayer saysI'm helping to build the house
of God and we will save millionsof souls over thousands of
years.
Well, for that person, the jobis a calling, and it turns out
almost any job.
There is about a third of thepeople think of it as a job, a
third of people think about itas a profession and a third
think of it as a company.
Fatima Bey (24:25):
So it takes you know , think Starbucks.
George Appling (24:28):
You know a third of the Starbucks baristas think
I do this job because I gotbills to pay.
A third think this is a bigcompany.
Fatima Bey (25:03):
I could make a go of this.
I could become a store manager.
I could become a regionalmanager.
George Appling (25:05):
I could become a district manager, I can make a
go of this.
Fatima Bey (25:08):
That's a profession, and there's a third of the
people that think you know I'mbringing the first smile of the
day to 300 people.
I think that's a good use of mytime.
Well, that's a calling, and ifyou can view your work as a
calling, you will bestatistically significantly
happier.
You're also going to getpromoted faster and make more
money, and I would love foreveryone to find that place.
Yeah, I believe that mostpeople can, and I think that
that's where a lot ofinnovations come from too, and a
lot of entrepreneurships canstart that way, and I love that.
George Appling (25:26):
Well, George, I would like for you to tell
people where they can find you.
My website is georgeapplingcomA-P-P-L-I-N-G, and that's where
you can find me and my book.
And you know, there's all sortsof goofy things that I do with
swords and horses and stuff, andyou can see some of that there
as well.
Fatima Bey (25:45):
Yes, you guys.
I will put a link to his pagetalking about these five
pathways on his website.
But if you explore the rest ofhis website, he's not joking.
He really thinks that WilliamShakespeare is his brother and
we'll call him.
George Appling (25:57):
Bill.
Fatima Bey (26:00):
Exactly All kinds of pictures of him and other
people doing what are theycalled jousting.
George Appling (26:07):
Sure, there's plenty of jousting going on.
Fatima Bey (26:09):
Yes, there's all kinds of just really interesting
things going on there.
One of the reasons I had you onthe show is I could see, even
before I met you, the passionthat you have for what you do,
and that's what I love.
I don't like to have guests onwho just can give us information
, so what Not impressive?
What's impressive is that youlive what you're talking about
and that you actually you lovewhat you're doing.
(26:32):
We can hear it in your voice, Ican see it in your face and if
you go to his website you canactually see it in his pictures
Like you're having fun, you'relike a big kid in a candy store,
and we all need to have thatfeeling with what we do.
I think so.
Not everybody will, and I knowthat, but for me, I need to feel
that way with what I'm doing,which is why I do all that I do.
(26:52):
I enjoy helping people grow andwatching other people rise.
Nothing excites me more thanwatching someone become who
they're supposed to be.
That's where I get my joy.
I want to do all my backflips.
So once again, george, thankyou so much for coming on.
You're a really cool guy andI'm glad we met.
And thank you.
George Appling (27:15):
Thank you for having me, Fatima.
That was a blast.
Fatima Bey (27:19):
And now for a mind-shifting moment.
Out of everything that was saidtoday, I want you to think
about this which one are you?
How are you living your life?
Do you have a life full ofpassion that you're living out
while working a job to pay thebills?
(27:40):
Or are you just working a jobto pay your bills, with no
passion outlet in your life?
Or are you living out yourpassion and also using it to pay
your bills?
I want you to think about whereyou are in your life right now.
And if you don't like what yousee, which one would you like to
(28:01):
change it into?
What would you like to do?
And if you're young and youhaven't decided yet, which one
do you want?
Which one do you think betterfits you?
Now is the time to examinewhere you are versus where you
want to be.
You've been listening to mindshift power podcast.
(28:25):
For complete show notes on thisepisode and to join our global
movement, find us atfatimabaycom until next time.
Always remember there's powerin shifting your thinking.
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