June 25, 2025 • 26 mins
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Ever wondered why that "one drink" so easily turns into ten? Or why some people can casually enjoy alcohol while others find themselves caught in a destructive pattern? Benny Voncken's story might just hit home.
Benny, a Stoic coach who rebuilt his life after alcoholism, takes us through his raw, unfiltered journey from college-party blackouts to sobriety and personal transformation. Unlike the stereotypical rock-bottom narrative, Benny's experience reveals how social drinking and the desperate need to fit in gradually evolved into dependency. "I didn't drink alone," he explains, "but when I went out, I drank blackout drunk." His powerful insight that "alcohol masks your problems in the moment but makes them far bigger after" resonates whether you've struggled with addiction or not.
What makes this conversation truly exceptional is how it transcends typical recovery discussion. Host Fatima Bey expertly guides Benny to share practical recognition signs and techniques that helped him break free—like his "foreshadowing" method of visualizing the entire drinking experience before taking that first sip. Benny's philosophical approach illuminates how finding your authentic values creates resilience against external pressures, whether from friends, family, or society.
The episode concludes with a thought-provoking challenge: what are you using to pacify your pain besides alcohol? Whether it's shopping, relationships, or career obsession, this conversation invites honest self-reflection. If you're seeking inspiration to make meaningful change in any area of your life, this episode delivers the perfect blend of compassion and practical wisdom to help you take that first step.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatima Bey (00:04):
This is MindShift Power Podcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, fatima Bey theMindShifter, and welcome
everyone.
Today we have with us BennyVunken.
(00:27):
He is originally from theNetherlands and he currently
lives in Athens, greece.
He is a stoic coach, a teacher,a writer, a speaker and, most
importantly, he has overcomealcoholism.
Before I talk to him, I justwant to give you one little
point of reference of why thisepisode is so important.
In the US alone, about 4,000young people under the age of 21
(00:51):
die each year from excessivealcohol use.
According to the CDC and forthose of you outside the US, cdc
stands for Center for DiseaseControl.
I don't like those numbers, butthey are the facts.
So how are you doing today?
Benny Voncken (01:09):
Benny, I'm doing very well.
Thank you for having me on, youknow, and especially on a topic
like this, because it's soimportant, especially when you
hear those numbers.
They definitely need to go down.
Fatima Bey (01:17):
Yeah, I totally agree.
So I like to dive right intothe conversation.
Why don't you start off bytelling us how did alcoholism
start for you?
Benny Voncken (01:44):
whole culture and I think that that's where it
kind of starts for for manypeople, where you kind of get in
into it with with people aroundyou and you know you go to
social events and there it'sthis norm, right, it's the
normal thing that you'resupposed to be doing.
And when I was little, we were,we were given like a oh, you
drink this, drink, that, andit's, it's fun to be around and,
and especially when you'reyoung, you don't know your
limits and you feel like, oh,look at me, I want to belong and
(02:05):
I want to show people how muchI can take, or I want to be the
the joke of the party, you know,the center of the party.
So that's where it started forme very young.
And then, as you grow older andyou know personally as well and
I grew up with, you know, Ihave three sisters I grew up
(02:26):
with a lot of women around me,which was great.
But then I went to college andthen I got into this, you know,
band of men, and I felt like Ihad to belong, but I didn't
really know exactly how tobehave among the group of men
and so I figured like, oh, thisis what everybody does to fit in
.
So I just went and drank evenmore excessively, just
especially looking back after it.
When you kind of you know,after I quit drinking and you
(02:49):
see your own behavior and youlook back, it's like I wasn't.
This wasn't me, I wasn't myselfthere, I was just trying to fit
in and then excessively go overthe top to make sure that
everybody liked me and that Iwas accepted in the group and I
felt like that was needed.
So that's where it went, reallylike into the the extreme sides
.
And then when you deal withdifficulties in life, um, then
(03:13):
you tend to go overboard as well, just to kind of make up for
for pain or hurt or things thatyou should be dealing with.
And alcohol is is an easy covertool to to make sure that the
pain and the hurt isn't felt asbad as you would do normally.
Fatima Bey (03:31):
How long did it take you to recognize that you were
an alcoholic, that it was aproblem?
Benny Voncken (03:36):
I think it was something that I've known for a
longer time, that it wasn'tsomething that was good for me,
but just because you have somany other things to to to cover
those thoughts and just to kindof push that away, that is a
that makes it different.
It is a process, but at onepoint, when you go to a specific
(03:56):
depth of the problem, then youdon't think about any of that
stuff at all.
But once you like, see, Iremember the moment when I
really said like okay, this hasgot to stop, as just a day, like
I was going through a divorce.
And then you, you know, after anight out, I woke up and
especially when you get older,the physical ramifications of
you know, drinking they getworse.
(04:16):
So you get, you wake up worse.
And I looked in the mirror andat one point I saw myself my.
I was in Dubai at the moment.
I was staying in a hotel roombecause we didn't really know
where to live yet.
And when she moved out, I wasthere by myself and the room was
a mess and I was looking atmyself like this is not going to
be my life.
This has got to be over.
So that's when I made that realfinal decision that I can't
(04:37):
have this in my life.
But it was.
Yeah.
You don't really think about ittoo much, but as you grow you
know it's somewhere in your mind.
But as you move towards yourexperiences you will find that
moment.
At one point you just hit thatwall and say this is it?
Fatima Bey (04:56):
You can't take anymore.
Benny Voncken (04:58):
What did alcoholism look like for you?
That's a really good questionbecause it has a lot of
different.
You know, a lot of the timeswhen we think think about
alcoholism, we think aboutpeople who are drinking non-stop
, which is definitely there, andI don't think I've reached that
extreme level for me.
I I didn't really like to drinka lot because it had a very big
physical and you know impact onme, especially because I had
(05:20):
migraines when I was younger soI would get very bad headaches.
Um, so I didn't drink alonewhen I was by myself, but when I
used to go out I just dranklike blackout drunk and didn't
know what would happen and getthere, and especially in my
college days that would bepretty much every day.
So that would be like you know,then I was, but when I was home
(05:40):
, like I didn't really that'swhere I also had I.
I also was a little bit morelucky and easier to stop
drinking.
But there's so many people whohave this problem with alcohol
but because it's not evensocially accepted, it's socially
demanded of you to drinkalcohol I find it very difficult
to go out and not drink becausepeople will look at you funny
(06:03):
or they ask you like hey, hey,why aren't you drinking?
Or people even from my familysaying, oh, you're not funny
anymore or, you know, you're notfun to hang out with anymore
and that will make you feel likean outcast faster and someone
who is a people pleaser, as I am, I always wanted to do what I
thought people wanted me to do,to kind of fit in.
So that's where it's a littlebit more difficult to stop
(06:24):
drinking, and that's somethingthat we should recognize as well
.
It's a slippery slope, so Ithink I was lucky to get to stop
at a certain point, because itcould have gotten a lot worse.
But I was definitely on thealcoholistic, heavy drinker,
social drinker side, and that'swhere I think, especially when
(06:46):
you are younger and even withadults, I see that around me a
lot of times people say I wish Icould stop drinking and I was
like so why can't you?
It's because I think I have to,because of all, the people
around me are drinking and if Idon't, then I'm not going to fit
in anymore, and that'ssomething that people in general
don't want to hear.
You know that you don't fit inanymore.
Fatima Bey (07:07):
That's true.
I think it's very interestingthe fact that you point out that
you know that image of you haveto be fall down drunk every day
and sitting in your bathtubdrowning in alcohol, and that's
the only way.
You're an alcoholic.
Anything short of that.
You're just having fun.
(07:28):
And it's simply not true,because what you just described
is a different version.
And that's why I asked thatquestion, because I think
sometimes people have that imageand I know it's not true that
you know there are other ways torecognize it.
So what do you think are someof the ways that someone can
recognize that it's a problemfor them.
Benny Voncken (07:51):
First of all, if you don't have your limits.
That was one of my problems,and I remember Matthew Perry,
the guy who was Chandler onFriends.
He had a big problem withalcohol and drugs and he said my
limit is zero or one.
When I hit one, that opens thefloodgates to so many more.
So that's the same for me.
(08:12):
When I start drinking and Ijust go like it's 20, 30, 40, 50
, I don't stop until I fallasleep or whatever happens.
And it's so risky especially.
You know, I've dodged so manybullets when I was younger, so
now that's also another thing,like I've tested my luck and I'm
happy, and I'm lucky that I'mstill here and safe.
(08:35):
So, but there's a lot of otherkind of telltale signs for me
that show you that this isn'tsomething that is good for you.
For me, it caused me a lot ofanxiety, especially like before
or after, like going out, andthe problem is that alcohol
masks your problems in themoment but it makes them far
(08:58):
bigger after, and that's whyyou've got to keep drinking,
because once you stop drinking,and especially when you have
blackouts, like I used to have,like I would wake up in the
morning like obviously feelinghungover and sick, but I would
also feel depressed about notknowing what I'd done, worried,
you know, not wanting to speakto people, really retreating
into myself, and that just makesthat spiral of negative
(09:20):
thoughts go even even deeper.
So if you recognize those things, then this is not something
that you want to keep doing.
You want to definitely seek out, reach out and find support,
because it just goes downhillfrom there and then you've got
to keep going and you've got tofind that you know that new
boost of like oh look, I'm doingokay and I want to show that to
(09:40):
people that I'm doing okay.
And that's where alcohol helpsas well, to overcome those
negative thoughts in the momentand to be cheerful again.
But once you stop it justbrings you down further.
Fatima Bey (09:55):
So what I hear from what you're saying is one of the
ways to tell it's a problem foryou is if you can't just stop
at one.
Oh yeah, a person who startsdrinking.
If one opens the floodgates for42 or whatever the number is I
mean, it's not usually 42, butyou know what I mean open the
floodgates for another five orsix.
That is an illustration.
(10:18):
That is an example.
That is evidence that it's aproblem.
Benny Voncken (10:21):
Yeah, if you don't have that capability of
saying no, saying stop.
And one funny story is likefunny, but I will remember going
to a party one day and as I waswalking to the bar, I was
telling myself okay, I'm goingto start with having a Coke, I'm
just going to start withdrinking some sodas or whatever
right.
And I kept telling myself overand over I'm just going to have
(10:44):
a Coke, I'm just going to have aCoca-Cola and whatever right.
And as I go to the bar, it'slike, yeah, give me one beer.
And I was like you know.
So it becomes this automaticpattern that you have when
you're in a certain situation,when you feel like you have to
drink, and then you don't have away of stopping.
And even further, wheneversomeone told me that I had
enough and I shouldn't drinkanymore, I would get angry and I
(11:05):
would drink even more, I wouldjust like ramp it up.
It was okay, you telling me Ican't drink, I'm gonna drink
even more.
So that's another of thosesigns when you can kind of get
aggressive or you get defensive,when people call you out on it.
Those are also signs to saymaybe this isn't you know, maybe
this has more control over methan I want it to have.
Fatima Bey (11:26):
I love that you're able to give detailed signs,
because a lot of times we talkabout it as an idea or concept
but don't recognize things youknow, because it doesn't always
look the same for everybody, youknow.
And I also like the fact thatyou pointed out that it masks
your issues.
Your issues are still going tobe there when you're sober.
(11:47):
They're just worse now and theanxiety once the alcohol has
left your body and the anxietyis increased.
That's another sign of aproblem.
Those are good details to know.
Now I want you to tell theaudience how did you climb out
(12:08):
of alcoholism?
Benny Voncken (12:11):
Yeah, and that's a very important part, obviously
, and it also kind of has alittle bit to do with one of
those signs.
As I mentioned earlier, I'mkind of like a people pleaser
and the opinions of others arevery important and I wanted to
belong, and I think, as a humanbeing, we all want to belong in
a group.
We want to be part of it, andso if you find yourself drinking
(12:32):
because of peer pressure orbecause you feel like this is
where I need to belong, if Iwant to stay with these people,
then I need to drink.
First of all, you've got to askyourself if this is a group of
people that you really want tohang out with.
I think that that's somethingthat I've had to ask myself and,
funnily, when.
I made the decision and I hadsome good examples.
I think that that really helped.
So my sister and my cousin theystopped drinking.
(12:55):
So they showed me that this ispossible, that you can still be
accepted by people.
So having a good example aroundyou is very important and the
great thing is that if you makethat step, you could be a good
example for other people aroundyou, and that's what I've
noticed as well.
Like I've had a couple of goodfriends that said, like wait a
minute, maybe this isn't goodfor me either.
(13:16):
So that is another really goodadvantage of doing this.
So for me, one of the biggestthings to really stop drinking
was to stop caring about whatother people thought about me
and to really imagine and thisis kind of like where my
philosophy of life really helpedme to say I can't control what
other people think of me.
(13:37):
I can stop drinking, I can keepdrinking, I can do whatever I
want.
They will have their opinionabout me anyway.
But if I start to live the wayI want to live, then I might
attract the right people who areactually beneficial to me and I
can be beneficial to them.
So for me, that was the biggestpart to stop thinking too much
about the fear of not being partof a group and I figured, like
(14:01):
if I need to drink to be part ofthat group, then I don't want
to be part of that group becauseit just it was tearing me apart
and it was really, you know,doing some bad things to me as
an individual.
So that is, for me, one of those, the biggest moments, because
it's so, there's so much socialpressure with alcohol and that
just keeps that makes people doa lot of dumb things, which is
(14:23):
which I did as well.
So for me, that's one of thosethings.
If you feel like you are doingthis because you want to belong,
then you've really got to askyourself this is you know,
whether this is something thatyou want to be doing in in
connection with all the otherstuff that we talked about?
Right, if you, if you can't doit in moderation in connection
with all the other stuff that wetalked about, right, if you
can't do it in moderation, ifyou can't say no on the nights,
or if it causes you a lot ofanxiety or mental issues?
Fatima Bey (14:48):
then, yeah, you definitely want to look into
that.
So what did it look like foryou getting out of alcoholism
and getting sober?
You talked about the decision,what led to that decision, which
is great, but what did it looklike for you?
Did you go to a program?
Did you stop drinking little bylittle?
Did you pace yourself?
Did you stop all at once?
How did it work for you?
Benny Voncken (15:14):
For me.
I just said I wouldn't go outfor a while because I think that
that's like because I kind ofavoided the places where I was
being triggered to drink, and itwas a maybe a little bit easier
because at the time I wasliving in dubai, um, and as I,
you know, said before, that waswhen I was going to a breakup,
but I was playing football youknow, soccer as it's known in in
the us but, um, that's anotherdebate, but um, so I debate and
(15:39):
these kind of moments where youagain, that was like a setting
with a lot of men and we used todrink after the games.
So that was still kind of thattriggering moment.
But one of the things that Iused was kind of like a
foreshadowing technique thatreally helped me still is to
think about what would happen ifI were to take that first drink
(16:01):
.
So I would imagine me havingthat first drink and then kind
of picturing the night evolvingafter that, waking up the next
day, how I would feel, all ofthat stuff, and that usually,
well usually, that stopped mefrom taking that first drink
because I knew that if I'dcrossed that barrier then the
rest would follow, and I had toomuch experience with that, so I
(16:22):
could easily picture what wouldhappen when I would start.
And even you know, once you stopdrinking and you look back at
the nights and the evenings andthe parties and the you know the
moments when you drank yourealize that they weren't all
that amazing to begin with.
You're just like, oh, this isjust another night to go out.
And then suddenly every nightis going to be the best night
(16:43):
ever, right?
Oh, this is going to be thebest party ever.
Yeah, and tomorrow again, youknow, and the next week as well.
So once you realize that, it'slike, yeah, these are not the
times that I really want to livemy life like this is like
there's so much more to to getout of it, and that's another
thing.
You, once you stop, you see somany of the benefits, and that's
(17:03):
really helped me to to keepgoing.
So for me the first thing was tomake that decision and then I
kind of just stopped, and firstby not going to those moments,
to just places that that triggerme to do it, because I wasn't
strong enough to to face them.
But once you get to those thatto it's like okay, now I can go
to where people drink, becauseI've fortified my mind, I'm
(17:24):
strong enough to deal with thatand I'm okay with the peer
pressure and with all of that.
Then you can go.
But first you have to kind ofprotect yourself first to make
sure that you're strong enoughto be there.
Fatima Bey (17:35):
Yeah, I think what you said is one of the wisest
things.
That goes way beyond any kindof substance abuse.
Where you are weak, don't gothere.
If you're trying to get overalcohol, don't go to a bar.
Don't hang out with people thatare drinking.
You're trying to stop smokingweed?
Stop hanging out with thepotheads, as we used to call
them.
You know, if you're trying tostop overeating, stop hanging
(17:57):
out with people that like toovereat all the time.
Hang out with people who eathealthier.
Whatever it is yoursurroundings really, really they
influence us and they matter.
It's a principle that I'mconstantly teaching.
I heard that, and the otherthing I heard out of what you
said, the other thing Iextracted out of what you said,
is you made a decision and thenyou made a bunch of individual
(18:20):
decisions, one at a time.
It wasn't one big gulping I'mall better now.
Yay, I'm not gonna drink, I'mjust gonna fly on unicorns.
It wasn't any of that.
It was.
You made a decision one at atime and you just told us the
one of the methods you use tomake those decisions.
But anything you want toovercome is a decision one at a
(18:43):
time.
And again, that goes beyondalcoholism.
Benny Voncken (18:46):
Oh, definitely, and you need to make that
decision for yourself, andthat's something that a lot of
people tend to forget.
At least, I did that.
It's again we feel like, youknow, we need to show other
people who we are, or whatever,but we forget that we get to
live our life the way we chooseto do it, and that's something
that is far more powerful.
So we need to make sure that welive the life that we want to
(19:09):
live, and sometimes that means,you know, separating ourselves
from certain people and findingthe right groups of people that
you want to be around with, andI think that that's a really
good, you know, thing to pullout of it Is to make sure that
you are surrounding yourselfWith the people who live the
life that you would like to live, and find, you know, the
support, find the people who area little bit ahead of you In
(19:30):
that, in that, in that journey,because they can give you the
tips, they can give you the callyou on your place and say, hey,
you are messing up here again.
Make sure that you pay attentionof what you're doing and then
allowing yourself to listen tothat as well, because a lot of
people who are struggling withsubstance abuse.
They are not very goodlisteners to critique or to
(19:52):
people calling them out on it,and they might double down.
That's what I did as well.
So once you make that decision,you also got to be able to be
vulnerable enough to realizeokay, you know I might mess up
here or there, but at least I'mtrying to do my best.
So giving yourself a little bitof compassion and just, you
know, being a little bit kinderon yourself but also being
(20:13):
strict enough to say like, okay,this is not where I don't want
to fall back, I want to keepgoing.
But yeah, sometimes it's babysteps and sometimes it's bigger
steps to take.
Fatima Bey (20:23):
I think often when it comes to our youth, at least
here, I can only speak for theUS, because you know that's
where I am, at least here in theUS.
If there's a teenager that isbecoming an alcoholic right now
as we speak, talk to them.
Benny Voncken (20:37):
Yeah, that's, you know, especially that moment of
life that's so pivotal becausethat's where you make a lot of
decisions that will last so muchlonger.
So if you are now looking atdrinking and finding that to be
your tool to cover youremotional problems or some
societal issues or whateverproblem that you have, I think
(20:59):
it is good to realize that thereis so much support out there
and there's so many.
If you're dealing with aproblem, someone else has dealt
with it as well and the best wayto deal with it is to reach out
and to speak to other people,to find that the confidant
someone you trust, someone whois there to listen to you,
instead of going for a bottle ora glass of alcohol, because you
(21:21):
know alcohol doesn't listen toyou.
Alcohol just wants more andmore and more from you.
So I think that if you arestruggling in that moment, just
realize that the best thing todo is just to reach out to
people and to find you know thefriends or family that can have
your, your back and who are.
You know, maybe you havesomeone who has already kind of
gone through that process andyou can reach out, or maybe
(21:42):
someone at school, someone likea counselor or a therapist.
I think that those areunderappreciated tools,
especially when you are younger,and I guess you know I would
have liked to have had that, butfor me the surroundings were
all just geared towards oneplace, and that was you know
where you would have to drink tobe socially accepted.
So that would be one of thebiggest things that I would do
(22:05):
is to reach out, not reach outto the bottle, but reach out to
the people around you.
Fatima Bey (22:10):
And that is so important.
And again, going back to theother thing you said, you
already said watch who you hangout with.
Your best friend that you grewup with might not be the person
you need to hang out withanymore, if that's, if they're
going to keep you in a weak spot.
You know you might need to hangout with new people and the
(22:31):
family member Cause some forsome people it is you might need
to keep away from them, to keepaway from what harms you.
Um, that's a big thing too.
So, benny, tell the audiencewhat you do and how they can
find you.
Benny Voncken (22:48):
So I'm a life coach and we give workshops and
courses based on Stoicphilosophy.
That's one of the things thatreally helped me and I'm not,
you know, we are not out thereto turn people into Stoics, but
we are not out there to turnpeople into stoics, but we are
trying to inspire people to finda philosophy of life, which is
something that really helped meovercome this obstacle, and what
(23:08):
that means is to find out whoyou are, what are your values,
your principles, what isimportant for you in life, how
do you want to live it, whatdoes it take to live it and you
know what you mentioned as wellthat can help you identify the
people around you that are goodfor you in life, or the people
that you might want to saygoodbye to and I've done that to
many people on this journey aswell, because they just didn't
(23:30):
have my best interest, but theywere just looking after their
own interest and even in tryingto deal with their own stuff in
their way and just trying to getpeople to normalize their
behavior by having them do thesame.
So that's kind of what we aretrying to do to inspire people
to find their own philosophy oflife.
So anyone's listening, go, findand look for something whether
(23:51):
it's Stoicism, buddhism, read,learn, get knowledge.
I think that that's somethingthat really helped me to
overcome it and life has becomeso much better.
And people can find me on awebsite called via stoicacom or
on our youtube channel thepodcast also via stoica and we
have an instagram where we tryto inspire people and we have a
(24:13):
weekly podcast and we do do lifecoaching.
So if people want to have likea, they can book a free
consultation with us just tohave a chat and see, you know,
for 30 minutes and see what wecan do.
But that's how we try to helpand how I try to use my own
experience.
Again, once you get to thisjourney, once you make that
decision, you can become such apowerful example for the people
(24:35):
around you and you can changelives without even knowing it,
and that, for me, is an extraboost to keep doing what I'm
doing.
Fatima Bey (24:45):
All right, and his information will be in the show
notes or the podcast episodedescription.
And, benny, once again, thankyou for coming on and sharing
with us your personal story, andI'm hoping that this episode
plants a seed of help forsomebody.
Thank you, and now for a mindshifting moment.
(25:08):
Today we talked about alcoholabuse, but I want to point
something out to you.
The word abuse is actually acompound word.
It means abnormal use.
Alcohol by itself isn't thereal problem.
It's not even bad.
(25:29):
It's the abnormal use of itthat's bad.
But here's the question I wantyou to think about.
Today.
You may have sit back andlistened to this because you're
like well, I'm not on drugs, Idon't do alcohol like that, so
you know this isn't about me.
But I want you to ponder thisDo you have something you're
(25:53):
trying to pacify with somethingelse besides alcohol?
Are you pacifying the hurt andpain with multiple sex partners?
Are you pacifying the hurt andpain with multiple sex partners?
Are you pacifying the hurt andpain with more money?
Are you pacifying your issueswith something or someone else?
Alcohol isn't the only thingthat gets abused.
(26:16):
I want you to think about that.
You've been listening toMindShift Power Podcast.
This is MindShift Power Podcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, fatima Bey theMindShifter, and welcome
everyone.
Today we have with us BennyVunken.
(00:27):
He is originally from theNetherlands and he currently
lives in Athens, greece.
He is a stoic coach, a teacher,a writer, a speaker and, most
importantly, he has overcomealcoholism.
Before I talk to him, I justwant to give you one little
point of reference of why thisepisode is so important.
In the US alone, about 4,000young people under the age of 21
(00:51):
die each year from excessivealcohol use.
According to the CDC and forthose of you outside the US, cdc
stands for Center for DiseaseControl.
I don't like those numbers, butthey are the facts.
So how are you doing today?
Benny Voncken (01:09):
Benny, I'm doing very well.
Thank you for having me on, youknow, and especially on a topic
like this, because it's soimportant, especially when you
hear those numbers.
They definitely need to go down.
Fatima Bey (01:17):
Yeah, I totally agree.
So I like to dive right intothe conversation.
Why don't you start off bytelling us how did alcoholism
start for you?
Benny Voncken (01:44):
whole culture and I think that that's where it
kind of starts for for manypeople, where you kind of get in
into it with with people aroundyou and you know you go to
social events and there it'sthis norm, right, it's the
normal thing that you'resupposed to be doing.
And when I was little, we were,we were given like a oh, you
drink this, drink, that, andit's, it's fun to be around and,
and especially when you'reyoung, you don't know your
limits and you feel like, oh,look at me, I want to belong and
(02:05):
I want to show people how muchI can take, or I want to be the
the joke of the party, you know,the center of the party.
So that's where it started forme very young.
And then, as you grow older andyou know personally as well and
I grew up with, you know, Ihave three sisters I grew up
(02:26):
with a lot of women around me,which was great.
But then I went to college andthen I got into this, you know,
band of men, and I felt like Ihad to belong, but I didn't
really know exactly how tobehave among the group of men
and so I figured like, oh, thisis what everybody does to fit in
.
So I just went and drank evenmore excessively, just
especially looking back after it.
When you kind of you know,after I quit drinking and you
(02:49):
see your own behavior and youlook back, it's like I wasn't.
This wasn't me, I wasn't myselfthere, I was just trying to fit
in and then excessively go overthe top to make sure that
everybody liked me and that Iwas accepted in the group and I
felt like that was needed.
So that's where it went, reallylike into the the extreme sides
.
And then when you deal withdifficulties in life, um, then
(03:13):
you tend to go overboard as well, just to kind of make up for
for pain or hurt or things thatyou should be dealing with.
And alcohol is is an easy covertool to to make sure that the
pain and the hurt isn't felt asbad as you would do normally.
Fatima Bey (03:31):
How long did it take you to recognize that you were
an alcoholic, that it was aproblem?
Benny Voncken (03:36):
I think it was something that I've known for a
longer time, that it wasn'tsomething that was good for me,
but just because you have somany other things to to to cover
those thoughts and just to kindof push that away, that is a
that makes it different.
It is a process, but at onepoint, when you go to a specific
(03:56):
depth of the problem, then youdon't think about any of that
stuff at all.
But once you like, see, Iremember the moment when I
really said like okay, this hasgot to stop, as just a day, like
I was going through a divorce.
And then you, you know, after anight out, I woke up and
especially when you get older,the physical ramifications of
you know, drinking they getworse.
(04:16):
So you get, you wake up worse.
And I looked in the mirror andat one point I saw myself my.
I was in Dubai at the moment.
I was staying in a hotel roombecause we didn't really know
where to live yet.
And when she moved out, I wasthere by myself and the room was
a mess and I was looking atmyself like this is not going to
be my life.
This has got to be over.
So that's when I made that realfinal decision that I can't
(04:37):
have this in my life.
But it was.
Yeah.
You don't really think about ittoo much, but as you grow you
know it's somewhere in your mind.
But as you move towards yourexperiences you will find that
moment.
At one point you just hit thatwall and say this is it?
Fatima Bey (04:56):
You can't take anymore.
Benny Voncken (04:58):
What did alcoholism look like for you?
That's a really good questionbecause it has a lot of
different.
You know, a lot of the timeswhen we think think about
alcoholism, we think aboutpeople who are drinking non-stop
, which is definitely there, andI don't think I've reached that
extreme level for me.
I I didn't really like to drinka lot because it had a very big
physical and you know impact onme, especially because I had
(05:20):
migraines when I was younger soI would get very bad headaches.
Um, so I didn't drink alonewhen I was by myself, but when I
used to go out I just dranklike blackout drunk and didn't
know what would happen and getthere, and especially in my
college days that would bepretty much every day.
So that would be like you know,then I was, but when I was home
(05:40):
, like I didn't really that'swhere I also had I.
I also was a little bit morelucky and easier to stop
drinking.
But there's so many people whohave this problem with alcohol
but because it's not evensocially accepted, it's socially
demanded of you to drinkalcohol I find it very difficult
to go out and not drink becausepeople will look at you funny
(06:03):
or they ask you like hey, hey,why aren't you drinking?
Or people even from my familysaying, oh, you're not funny
anymore or, you know, you're notfun to hang out with anymore
and that will make you feel likean outcast faster and someone
who is a people pleaser, as I am, I always wanted to do what I
thought people wanted me to do,to kind of fit in.
So that's where it's a littlebit more difficult to stop
(06:24):
drinking, and that's somethingthat we should recognize as well
.
It's a slippery slope, so Ithink I was lucky to get to stop
at a certain point, because itcould have gotten a lot worse.
But I was definitely on thealcoholistic, heavy drinker,
social drinker side, and that'swhere I think, especially when
(06:46):
you are younger and even withadults, I see that around me a
lot of times people say I wish Icould stop drinking and I was
like so why can't you?
It's because I think I have to,because of all, the people
around me are drinking and if Idon't, then I'm not going to fit
in anymore, and that'ssomething that people in general
don't want to hear.
You know that you don't fit inanymore.
Fatima Bey (07:07):
That's true.
I think it's very interestingthe fact that you point out that
you know that image of you haveto be fall down drunk every day
and sitting in your bathtubdrowning in alcohol, and that's
the only way.
You're an alcoholic.
Anything short of that.
You're just having fun.
(07:28):
And it's simply not true,because what you just described
is a different version.
And that's why I asked thatquestion, because I think
sometimes people have that imageand I know it's not true that
you know there are other ways torecognize it.
So what do you think are someof the ways that someone can
recognize that it's a problemfor them.
Benny Voncken (07:51):
First of all, if you don't have your limits.
That was one of my problems,and I remember Matthew Perry,
the guy who was Chandler onFriends.
He had a big problem withalcohol and drugs and he said my
limit is zero or one.
When I hit one, that opens thefloodgates to so many more.
So that's the same for me.
(08:12):
When I start drinking and Ijust go like it's 20, 30, 40, 50
, I don't stop until I fallasleep or whatever happens.
And it's so risky especially.
You know, I've dodged so manybullets when I was younger, so
now that's also another thing,like I've tested my luck and I'm
happy, and I'm lucky that I'mstill here and safe.
(08:35):
So, but there's a lot of otherkind of telltale signs for me
that show you that this isn'tsomething that is good for you.
For me, it caused me a lot ofanxiety, especially like before
or after, like going out, andthe problem is that alcohol
masks your problems in themoment but it makes them far
(08:58):
bigger after, and that's whyyou've got to keep drinking,
because once you stop drinking,and especially when you have
blackouts, like I used to have,like I would wake up in the
morning like obviously feelinghungover and sick, but I would
also feel depressed about notknowing what I'd done, worried,
you know, not wanting to speakto people, really retreating
into myself, and that just makesthat spiral of negative
(09:20):
thoughts go even even deeper.
So if you recognize those things, then this is not something
that you want to keep doing.
You want to definitely seek out, reach out and find support,
because it just goes downhillfrom there and then you've got
to keep going and you've got tofind that you know that new
boost of like oh look, I'm doingokay and I want to show that to
(09:40):
people that I'm doing okay.
And that's where alcohol helpsas well, to overcome those
negative thoughts in the momentand to be cheerful again.
But once you stop it justbrings you down further.
Fatima Bey (09:55):
So what I hear from what you're saying is one of the
ways to tell it's a problem foryou is if you can't just stop
at one.
Oh yeah, a person who startsdrinking.
If one opens the floodgates for42 or whatever the number is I
mean, it's not usually 42, butyou know what I mean open the
floodgates for another five orsix.
That is an illustration.
(10:18):
That is an example.
That is evidence that it's aproblem.
Benny Voncken (10:21):
Yeah, if you don't have that capability of
saying no, saying stop.
And one funny story is likefunny, but I will remember going
to a party one day and as I waswalking to the bar, I was
telling myself okay, I'm goingto start with having a Coke, I'm
just going to start withdrinking some sodas or whatever
right.
And I kept telling myself overand over I'm just going to have
(10:44):
a Coke, I'm just going to have aCoca-Cola and whatever right.
And as I go to the bar, it'slike, yeah, give me one beer.
And I was like you know.
So it becomes this automaticpattern that you have when
you're in a certain situation,when you feel like you have to
drink, and then you don't have away of stopping.
And even further, wheneversomeone told me that I had
enough and I shouldn't drinkanymore, I would get angry and I
(11:05):
would drink even more, I wouldjust like ramp it up.
It was okay, you telling me Ican't drink, I'm gonna drink
even more.
So that's another of thosesigns when you can kind of get
aggressive or you get defensive,when people call you out on it.
Those are also signs to saymaybe this isn't you know, maybe
this has more control over methan I want it to have.
Fatima Bey (11:26):
I love that you're able to give detailed signs,
because a lot of times we talkabout it as an idea or concept
but don't recognize things youknow, because it doesn't always
look the same for everybody, youknow.
And I also like the fact thatyou pointed out that it masks
your issues.
Your issues are still going tobe there when you're sober.
(11:47):
They're just worse now and theanxiety once the alcohol has
left your body and the anxietyis increased.
That's another sign of aproblem.
Those are good details to know.
Now I want you to tell theaudience how did you climb out
(12:08):
of alcoholism?
Benny Voncken (12:11):
Yeah, and that's a very important part, obviously
, and it also kind of has alittle bit to do with one of
those signs.
As I mentioned earlier, I'mkind of like a people pleaser
and the opinions of others arevery important and I wanted to
belong, and I think, as a humanbeing, we all want to belong in
a group.
We want to be part of it, andso if you find yourself drinking
(12:32):
because of peer pressure orbecause you feel like this is
where I need to belong, if Iwant to stay with these people,
then I need to drink.
First of all, you've got to askyourself if this is a group of
people that you really want tohang out with.
I think that that's somethingthat I've had to ask myself and,
funnily, when.
I made the decision and I hadsome good examples.
I think that that really helped.
So my sister and my cousin theystopped drinking.
(12:55):
So they showed me that this ispossible, that you can still be
accepted by people.
So having a good example aroundyou is very important and the
great thing is that if you makethat step, you could be a good
example for other people aroundyou, and that's what I've
noticed as well.
Like I've had a couple of goodfriends that said, like wait a
minute, maybe this isn't goodfor me either.
(13:16):
So that is another really goodadvantage of doing this.
So for me, one of the biggestthings to really stop drinking
was to stop caring about whatother people thought about me
and to really imagine and thisis kind of like where my
philosophy of life really helpedme to say I can't control what
other people think of me.
(13:37):
I can stop drinking, I can keepdrinking, I can do whatever I
want.
They will have their opinionabout me anyway.
But if I start to live the wayI want to live, then I might
attract the right people who areactually beneficial to me and I
can be beneficial to them.
So for me, that was the biggestpart to stop thinking too much
about the fear of not being partof a group and I figured, like
(14:01):
if I need to drink to be part ofthat group, then I don't want
to be part of that group becauseit just it was tearing me apart
and it was really, you know,doing some bad things to me as
an individual.
So that is, for me, one of those, the biggest moments, because
it's so, there's so much socialpressure with alcohol and that
just keeps that makes people doa lot of dumb things, which is
(14:23):
which I did as well.
So for me, that's one of thosethings.
If you feel like you are doingthis because you want to belong,
then you've really got to askyourself this is you know,
whether this is something thatyou want to be doing in in
connection with all the otherstuff that we talked about?
Right, if you, if you can't doit in moderation in connection
with all the other stuff that wetalked about, right, if you
can't do it in moderation, ifyou can't say no on the nights,
or if it causes you a lot ofanxiety or mental issues?
Fatima Bey (14:48):
then, yeah, you definitely want to look into
that.
So what did it look like foryou getting out of alcoholism
and getting sober?
You talked about the decision,what led to that decision, which
is great, but what did it looklike for you?
Did you go to a program?
Did you stop drinking little bylittle?
Did you pace yourself?
Did you stop all at once?
How did it work for you?
Benny Voncken (15:14):
For me.
I just said I wouldn't go outfor a while because I think that
that's like because I kind ofavoided the places where I was
being triggered to drink, and itwas a maybe a little bit easier
because at the time I wasliving in dubai, um, and as I,
you know, said before, that waswhen I was going to a breakup,
but I was playing football youknow, soccer as it's known in in
the us but, um, that's anotherdebate, but um, so I debate and
(15:39):
these kind of moments where youagain, that was like a setting
with a lot of men and we used todrink after the games.
So that was still kind of thattriggering moment.
But one of the things that Iused was kind of like a
foreshadowing technique thatreally helped me still is to
think about what would happen ifI were to take that first drink
(16:01):
.
So I would imagine me havingthat first drink and then kind
of picturing the night evolvingafter that, waking up the next
day, how I would feel, all ofthat stuff, and that usually,
well usually, that stopped mefrom taking that first drink
because I knew that if I'dcrossed that barrier then the
rest would follow, and I had toomuch experience with that, so I
(16:22):
could easily picture what wouldhappen when I would start.
And even you know, once you stopdrinking and you look back at
the nights and the evenings andthe parties and the you know the
moments when you drank yourealize that they weren't all
that amazing to begin with.
You're just like, oh, this isjust another night to go out.
And then suddenly every nightis going to be the best night
(16:43):
ever, right?
Oh, this is going to be thebest party ever.
Yeah, and tomorrow again, youknow, and the next week as well.
So once you realize that, it'slike, yeah, these are not the
times that I really want to livemy life like this is like
there's so much more to to getout of it, and that's another
thing.
You, once you stop, you see somany of the benefits, and that's
(17:03):
really helped me to to keepgoing.
So for me the first thing was tomake that decision and then I
kind of just stopped, and firstby not going to those moments,
to just places that that triggerme to do it, because I wasn't
strong enough to to face them.
But once you get to those thatto it's like okay, now I can go
to where people drink, becauseI've fortified my mind, I'm
(17:24):
strong enough to deal with thatand I'm okay with the peer
pressure and with all of that.
Then you can go.
But first you have to kind ofprotect yourself first to make
sure that you're strong enoughto be there.
Fatima Bey (17:35):
Yeah, I think what you said is one of the wisest
things.
That goes way beyond any kindof substance abuse.
Where you are weak, don't gothere.
If you're trying to get overalcohol, don't go to a bar.
Don't hang out with people thatare drinking.
You're trying to stop smokingweed?
Stop hanging out with thepotheads, as we used to call
them.
You know, if you're trying tostop overeating, stop hanging
(17:57):
out with people that like toovereat all the time.
Hang out with people who eathealthier.
Whatever it is yoursurroundings really, really they
influence us and they matter.
It's a principle that I'mconstantly teaching.
I heard that, and the otherthing I heard out of what you
said, the other thing Iextracted out of what you said,
is you made a decision and thenyou made a bunch of individual
(18:20):
decisions, one at a time.
It wasn't one big gulping I'mall better now.
Yay, I'm not gonna drink, I'mjust gonna fly on unicorns.
It wasn't any of that.
It was.
You made a decision one at atime and you just told us the
one of the methods you use tomake those decisions.
But anything you want toovercome is a decision one at a
(18:43):
time.
And again, that goes beyondalcoholism.
Benny Voncken (18:46):
Oh, definitely, and you need to make that
decision for yourself, andthat's something that a lot of
people tend to forget.
At least, I did that.
It's again we feel like, youknow, we need to show other
people who we are, or whatever,but we forget that we get to
live our life the way we chooseto do it, and that's something
that is far more powerful.
So we need to make sure that welive the life that we want to
(19:09):
live, and sometimes that means,you know, separating ourselves
from certain people and findingthe right groups of people that
you want to be around with, andI think that that's a really
good, you know, thing to pullout of it Is to make sure that
you are surrounding yourselfWith the people who live the
life that you would like to live, and find, you know, the
support, find the people who area little bit ahead of you In
(19:30):
that, in that, in that journey,because they can give you the
tips, they can give you the callyou on your place and say, hey,
you are messing up here again.
Make sure that you pay attentionof what you're doing and then
allowing yourself to listen tothat as well, because a lot of
people who are struggling withsubstance abuse.
They are not very goodlisteners to critique or to
(19:52):
people calling them out on it,and they might double down.
That's what I did as well.
So once you make that decision,you also got to be able to be
vulnerable enough to realizeokay, you know I might mess up
here or there, but at least I'mtrying to do my best.
So giving yourself a little bitof compassion and just, you
know, being a little bit kinderon yourself but also being
(20:13):
strict enough to say like, okay,this is not where I don't want
to fall back, I want to keepgoing.
But yeah, sometimes it's babysteps and sometimes it's bigger
steps to take.
Fatima Bey (20:23):
I think often when it comes to our youth, at least
here, I can only speak for theUS, because you know that's
where I am, at least here in theUS.
If there's a teenager that isbecoming an alcoholic right now
as we speak, talk to them.
Benny Voncken (20:37):
Yeah, that's, you know, especially that moment of
life that's so pivotal becausethat's where you make a lot of
decisions that will last so muchlonger.
So if you are now looking atdrinking and finding that to be
your tool to cover youremotional problems or some
societal issues or whateverproblem that you have, I think
(20:59):
it is good to realize that thereis so much support out there
and there's so many.
If you're dealing with aproblem, someone else has dealt
with it as well and the best wayto deal with it is to reach out
and to speak to other people,to find that the confidant
someone you trust, someone whois there to listen to you,
instead of going for a bottle ora glass of alcohol, because you
(21:21):
know alcohol doesn't listen toyou.
Alcohol just wants more andmore and more from you.
So I think that if you arestruggling in that moment, just
realize that the best thing todo is just to reach out to
people and to find you know thefriends or family that can have
your, your back and who are.
You know, maybe you havesomeone who has already kind of
gone through that process andyou can reach out, or maybe
(21:42):
someone at school, someone likea counselor or a therapist.
I think that those areunderappreciated tools,
especially when you are younger,and I guess you know I would
have liked to have had that, butfor me the surroundings were
all just geared towards oneplace, and that was you know
where you would have to drink tobe socially accepted.
So that would be one of thebiggest things that I would do
(22:05):
is to reach out, not reach outto the bottle, but reach out to
the people around you.
Fatima Bey (22:10):
And that is so important.
And again, going back to theother thing you said, you
already said watch who you hangout with.
Your best friend that you grewup with might not be the person
you need to hang out withanymore, if that's, if they're
going to keep you in a weak spot.
You know you might need to hangout with new people and the
(22:31):
family member Cause some forsome people it is you might need
to keep away from them, to keepaway from what harms you.
Um, that's a big thing too.
So, benny, tell the audiencewhat you do and how they can
find you.
Benny Voncken (22:48):
So I'm a life coach and we give workshops and
courses based on Stoicphilosophy.
That's one of the things thatreally helped me and I'm not,
you know, we are not out thereto turn people into Stoics, but
we are not out there to turnpeople into stoics, but we are
trying to inspire people to finda philosophy of life, which is
something that really helped meovercome this obstacle, and what
(23:08):
that means is to find out whoyou are, what are your values,
your principles, what isimportant for you in life, how
do you want to live it, whatdoes it take to live it and you
know what you mentioned as wellthat can help you identify the
people around you that are goodfor you in life, or the people
that you might want to saygoodbye to and I've done that to
many people on this journey aswell, because they just didn't
(23:30):
have my best interest, but theywere just looking after their
own interest and even in tryingto deal with their own stuff in
their way and just trying to getpeople to normalize their
behavior by having them do thesame.
So that's kind of what we aretrying to do to inspire people
to find their own philosophy oflife.
So anyone's listening, go, findand look for something whether
(23:51):
it's Stoicism, buddhism, read,learn, get knowledge.
I think that that's somethingthat really helped me to
overcome it and life has becomeso much better.
And people can find me on awebsite called via stoicacom or
on our youtube channel thepodcast also via stoica and we
have an instagram where we tryto inspire people and we have a
(24:13):
weekly podcast and we do do lifecoaching.
So if people want to have likea, they can book a free
consultation with us just tohave a chat and see, you know,
for 30 minutes and see what wecan do.
But that's how we try to helpand how I try to use my own
experience.
Again, once you get to thisjourney, once you make that
decision, you can become such apowerful example for the people
(24:35):
around you and you can changelives without even knowing it,
and that, for me, is an extraboost to keep doing what I'm
doing.
Fatima Bey (24:45):
All right, and his information will be in the show
notes or the podcast episodedescription.
And, benny, once again, thankyou for coming on and sharing
with us your personal story, andI'm hoping that this episode
plants a seed of help forsomebody.
Thank you, and now for a mindshifting moment.
(25:08):
Today we talked about alcoholabuse, but I want to point
something out to you.
The word abuse is actually acompound word.
It means abnormal use.
Alcohol by itself isn't thereal problem.
It's not even bad.
(25:29):
It's the abnormal use of itthat's bad.
But here's the question I wantyou to think about.
Today.
You may have sit back andlistened to this because you're
like well, I'm not on drugs, Idon't do alcohol like that, so
you know this isn't about me.
But I want you to ponder thisDo you have something you're
(25:53):
trying to pacify with somethingelse besides alcohol?
Are you pacifying the hurt andpain with multiple sex partners?
Are you pacifying the hurt andpain with multiple sex partners?
Are you pacifying the hurt andpain with more money?
Are you pacifying your issueswith something or someone else?
Alcohol isn't the only thingthat gets abused.
(26:16):
I want you to think about that.
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