September 23, 2025 • 38 mins
What if your words could be the final straw for someone battling suicidal thoughts? With a staggering 41% of LGBTQ+ youth seriously considering suicide last year, this conversation couldn't be more urgent.
Miss Lulu, speaking under an alias due to the sensitivity of the topic, brings her experience working with crisis hotlines to shed light on the devastating loneliness many LGBTQ+ individuals face. "It's like a form of torture," she explains, describing how people stuff down their true selves out of fear, creating both psychological and physical harm. Most heartbreaking is the revelation that suicidal ideation often begins as young as 6 or 7 years old for some children wrestling with their identity.
The discussion takes a bold turn when addressing the intersection of religious beliefs and human dignity. Is it possible to hold traditional views on sexuality while still treating LGBTQ+ individuals as fully human? The answer, both hosts suggest, is an emphatic yes. The problem isn't necessarily the belief itself but the selective application of judgment toward certain differences while overlooking others.
Perhaps the most powerful moment comes when Miss Lulu shares her personal journey with body dysmorphia after pregnancy-related hair loss. By finding that small thread of connection—knowing what it's like to feel uncomfortable in your own body—she offers listeners a gateway to empathy. "Find that thread," she urges, "and then magnify it times a hundred to imagine what it's like to live in that world every day."
For LGBTQ+ youth worldwide, especially those in dangerous environments, the conversation concludes with practical advice on finding safe communities online where authentic expression is possible. The Trevor Project and similar organizations offer lifelines that literally save lives.
What will you do with your words today? Will you push someone closer to the edge, or pull them back with your compassion? Your answer matters more than you know.
Helpful Resources:
Call or Text 988
or visit https://988lifeline.org/ (There are also serves for the deaf)
Call The Trevor Project Lifeline at 1-866-488-7386
or visit https://www.thetrevorproject.org/
Send us an anonymous text message
Every episode brings global perspectives and leadership insights. Click on the "Support the show" link above and keep the mission alive!
Search MindShift Power Podcast buy topic here: https://www.fatimabey.com/podcast-search
Explore more about my work beyond podcasting, check out the blog, share your thoughts, or become a guest! https://www.FatimaBey.com
I also have another podcast called The MindShifter Audio Blog!
Experience my written words like never before, as I personally narrate my blogs for a truly engaging audio journey. https://www.fatimabey.com/audioblog
Join the MindShift Universe—where real conversations spark transformation!
Follow me on social media: https://www.fatimabey.com/#1035650492
Thank you for listening!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatima Bey (00:23):
Hello and welcome everyone.
Due to the nature of this topicand organizations involved, my
guest today is going to use analias, so today we have with us
Miss Lulu.
She is from the USA and this isa very sensitive topic.
It's very controversial and, asyou know, I don't stay away
from those, but especially onthe world stage right now it's a
(00:46):
very sensitive topic, so I wantto read to you some numbers
that I discovered that I thinkare relevant to this topic, and
this is according to the TrevorProject's 2023 survey.
A staggering 41% of the LGBTQplus young people seriously
(01:10):
considered attempting suicide inthe past year.
As we're recording this, thisis 2025.
I don't know if those numbershave gone up or not, but I'm
going to guess they probablyhave.
And for transgendered andnon-binary young people, the
numbers are even moredevastating.
Nearly one in fivetransgendered and non-binary
(01:31):
youth attempted suicide in thepast year.
And, just as an FYI, lgbtq plusis too much of a tongue twister
for me, so I will say alphabetcommunity, and that is not meant
in a derogatory term, is meantfor, so that I can say it easier
.
So when you hear me using thatreference, that's all that I
(01:54):
really mean.
So how are you doing today,Miss Lulu?
Miss LuLu (01:57):
I'm doing well, thank you.
Fatima Bey (02:00):
I'm glad that you came on today and, first of all,
thank you for being willing totalk about this, and you are
just the right person to havethis conversation, so tell us
why you're here.
Miss LuLu (02:11):
So when I saw the description of what it is you
talk about, I think for me.
I have young women, I havechildren and I am incredibly
nervous about the world thatthey are going to grow up in.
And I have worked with so manypeople that have told me
(02:32):
incredibly powerful andincredibly vulnerable and
incredibly devastating stories,and I see so much of the world
where there's just a lack ofunderstanding and that lack of
understanding creates real painfor a lot of people and, you
know, it creates death evenright, and it's just really
(02:56):
tragic that if people couldrelate a little bit more, if
they could internalize, if theycould have a personal experience
, if they could hear some ofthese very vulnerable stories,
perhaps they might choose adifferent course of action.
So certainly, if I can sharesome of what I have been allowed
(03:18):
to hear and it can allow otherpeople to understand a different
perspective than the onethey've had, then that would be
incredibly valuable.
But more so than that, it'sreally just trying to broadcast
the world that I hope that mygirls grow up in.
Fatima Bey (03:36):
Yes, Now, when it comes.
We're here to talk aboutsuicide amongst the alphabet
community.
It is a really big deal.
I just read some numbers and Ialso want to add to that for the
audience.
I don't care what the numberssay.
They're always higher than whatthey count, it's true on a lot
(03:56):
of topics, because they can onlycapture what they can capture.
They're not going to get aresponse from everyone.
Everything's not going to getcounted.
So, with that being said, I'mgoing to guess that those
numbers are actually probablyhigher.
And the one in fivetransgendered that have
attempted suicide over the pastyear I am positive that they
(04:19):
don't know about.
The other two, you know, theyonly know what's reported, and
there's a lot that's notreported that their friends
might know about.
But you know, anybody who'slistening to me knows that I
have a big heart and compassionfor hurting people, period, no
matter who those hurting peopleare.
And so today we're going totalk about the hurting people
(04:39):
who are a part of that community.
So I want to ask you this whyshould we care if no one in our
family is a part of the alphabetcommunity?
I don't know anybody who's gayor transgender, so why should I
care?
Miss LuLu (04:52):
Yeah, and then that can be a real challenge,
especially if you are sort ofsurrounded by a community that
actively doesn't support that.
So a lot of religiouscommunities, for example that,
so a lot of religiouscommunities for example,
publicly don't support thatgroup, and so why should I care?
Everybody around me has thesame opinion.
You know that this doesn'tapply to me, and I think one of
(05:14):
the really impactful things,having worked in a crisis
hotline situation, is how manypeople are dealing with this
silently?
Yeah, and so you probably dohave people around you who are
dealing with this, and itdoesn't mean that they are, you
(05:36):
know, flamboyantly inside a verystrong gay person that you know
has stuffed it down.
There's varying degrees of thisand there's oh my gosh, I was
once, you know, aroused by apicture of another woman and I
didn't expect that.
Or you know, a man saying thatand just like, oh gosh, what
(05:56):
does that make me?
And sort of this.
There's spots in our life thatwe don't broadcast to other
people, and it's amazing to methat the stories that I have had
shared with me I can't tellanybody, right, nobody around me
knows, and it means that thesepeople are living in extreme
(06:19):
loneliness, with very darkthoughts, and that is such a bad
combination.
It's like a form of torture, itreally is.
And you know understanding thatyou might have to choose
between having a family andbeing able to tell your truth,
or you know whatever that mightmean, and so just being generous
(06:43):
to the concepts of it andrecognizing that when you say a
really heavy thing, right, oh,they deserve that.
Or you know some of thosethings that we've heard of you
know well, you know, no wonderthey're suicidal.
You know why do they deserve?
And the problem is is thatsomebody around you might
(07:04):
internalize that in a way you'renot even expecting, and it
might not even be about LGBTQ.
The problem is is that it's adifference, it's a thing that we
can point out that makes acertain group different than a
mainstream group.
And so if I have somedifference, hey, I'm dyslexic,
that makes me different and Ifeel really weird about my
differences.
And, gosh, you don't seem to beaccepting about people who are
(07:27):
different than you in that space.
Maybe you're just not allowedto be different at all.
And then that just leads to aworld where we're all trying to
conform to this thing that veryfew of us actually are, because
we think that is what's requiredof us to be part of the
community, and so you know,that's really why I think it
(07:47):
matters.
Fatima Bey (07:48):
So what I'm hearing, what I'm extracting from what
you're saying, is that thereason we should care is because
of the mental effects that ithas of other people around us
that we're not always aware of.
We don't know everything, wedon't know what other people are
going through, and I completelyagree with you.
There have been times where Ihave personally myself said
something.
You know times in the pastwhere I've said something and I
(08:10):
was just making a statementabout how I felt about something
, not fully aware that I wasactually talking about the
person next to me, right, andthen finding out later that I
was, and it's like, oh crap,maybe I shouldn't have said all
of that.
And I'm a very blunt, directperson and I say I do speak my
mind, but sometimes there's waysof doing it, and it's not
(08:32):
always necessary, but even if itis, there's a way you can do it
that's not as judgmental, or atleast come across that way.
You just don't know what peopleare dealing with, and this is
something that you havepersonally had a lot of
experience with, with the peoplearound you and working with
this community a lot, which iswhy I have you on here, and so
(08:53):
you have an understanding that Idon't.
I don't have an understandingof what it's like to be any part
of that community, but I dohave people around me that are
and understand that they're justas human as me and everybody
else.
Miss LuLu (09:05):
Right.
Fatima Bey (09:06):
But they have.
Would you agree that people inthat community have nuanced
issues that maybe the rest of usdon't understand?
Miss LuLu (09:14):
Absolutely.
I mean you talk aboutintersectionality, right, and
you start adding relationshipdynamics and family dynamics and
you know race and ethnicity andreligion and right, the
intersectionality of some ofthese communities gets so
complicated because there isjust so many layers to their
identity that feel othered that,yeah, the nuance there is very
(09:39):
individual and you know an urbanyouth who felt, you know, maybe
their communities felt moreaccepting and so they were able
to be out at a very young ageand free.
They still are at risk forsuicidal thoughts for plenty of
other reasons, and the internetand the public exposure to
(10:02):
absolutely everyone in theuniverse, doesn't free them, but
certainly those in communitieswho are less accepting and
therefore they are juststruggling to figure out am I
even allowed to be here, am Iallowed to be in this space?
And you know what parts ofmyself do I have to shove down
and hide in order to be anacceptable member here?
Fatima Bey (10:26):
Now I want to mention this because we're both
American.
We're here in the US.
This topic is less.
It's still an issue here in theUS, but it's a lot more
accepted here and I would sayit's less of an issue here than
it is in many.
Most of the world.
This is still a very, very,very sensitive topic.
(10:48):
We don't have the numbers forthose communities.
There's really no real way toget them because most of these
other societies, even if youhave numbers, they're probably
not real because they don't careto capture the real ones.
It's difficult to capture thereal numbers.
So, without looking at theirnumbers, why do you think and
I'm talking on a universal sensewhy do you think suicides are
(11:12):
so high among that community?
Miss LuLu (11:14):
it's more accepting in the US.
It is safer to be some of thesecommunity members in the US and
yet it's not safe here.
You know a lot of these peoplehave stories about basic
(11:35):
bullying.
I mean even basic bullying canbe very dangerous and being
chased and being, you know,nervous to walk around at night.
I mean, as a woman I can relateto that right and so it is more
accepting and that just makesit that much worse to understand
what it must like to live inother spaces where it is more
(11:56):
dangerous.
You are at more risk, right,because it's just that much more
so.
What's really interesting to meis I don't know if this is new,
I don't know if this isn't theway it has been or it's just
more accessible now due to theinternet and due to, you know,
the young generation'swillingness to share some of
(12:17):
these things.
But suicidal ideation startsreally young for certain people,
and so these are thoughts thathave been, they have lived with
for a very long, sometimesstarting at six, seven, eight
years old which I can't, I can'tunderstand, I can't relate to
(12:37):
that directly.
I have never been in asituation where the thoughts
were so dark that I didn't knowhow to come back from them.
I've been deeply sad, I've beenthrough some really hard times,
but my brain doesn't work thatway, and I think it's really
(12:58):
important to recognize that,because I've now been exposed to
people in my personal life thattheir brain does, and I have to
just accept that that is adifference, that I don't need to
have that experience in orderto just say, hey, that is your
reality.
And because that's your reality, let me help you where you are,
(13:20):
not where I am, and thathappens so little that I think
globally when we're talkingabout access to support.
As soon as you start feelinginhuman, as soon as you start
feeling like there is no hope oraccess to be this person that
you feel inside, then is lifereally worth living?
(13:42):
Yeah, and so even with supports, if you aren't able to be
honest with people, you'recramming these emotions that you
are feeling on a regular basisdown and down and down, and we
all know that not only do thoseemotions have real impacts to
your psyche and your ability tobe a functional person, but they
(14:08):
have physical ramifications.
That much emotional turmoilcomes out physically, and so
some of these people are sickand it just feels like life will
never get better, life willalways be this hard, and so it
just doesn't feel like there's alot of alternatives for this
group if they can't find theirin-circle and what's wonderful
(14:31):
is, some people do find theirin-circle and then they are able
to thrive, but they have tousually grow up enough.
Fatima Bey (14:56):
To then be able to be mobile enough to be able to
find, to say and if you aretransgendered, if you are
homosexual or anything, thereare places in the world that
they'll just kill you.
They will literally kill you,and if they don't kill you,
they'll, at minimal, ostracizeyou to the point where you don't
(15:17):
feel human anymore, which Ipersonally feel is wrong.
Humans are humans, period, andit's something that you hear
coming from me all the time Ifyou listen to this podcast at
all.
I believe that humans arehumans and I'm going to bring
this up because this is verycontroversial and I don't like
to ignore controversy.
I like to address it.
I'm a Christian and there aremany people who are Christians
(15:39):
that might be even pissed offthat I'm even having this
episode because I'm not comingat homosexuality as you're wrong
.
Get straight and shut up, likethat's not my mentality, even
believing that homosexuality isnot created by God, because many
of the Christians out therebelieve that that does not take
(16:00):
away from them being human, andI want to say that out loud.
And the reason I'm saying thatis because I think a balanced
conversation needs to happenaround this topic, and I very
rarely ever hear that it'seither way over on the left or
way over on the right, and Idon't hear a conversation in the
middle that kind of understandsboth.
And just because and I'm sayingthis in representation for not
(16:25):
myself, necessarily, but forother Christians out there,
because it is an issue, and notjust in the US, but across the
world Just because someone is apart of you know, what I'm
saying is the alphabet community, and I'm generalizing it
doesn't make them less human.
God still cares about them justas much as me, and I strongly,
(16:46):
truly believe that.
I have a sister who's beenmarried to a woman for over 20
years and we love her we reallydo.
She's part of the family.
My mother loves her, like therest of us, and it never would
occur to me to treat anybody asless than human, and that's a
message that I want to getacross to the listeners out
(17:07):
there who are Christian orwhatever other religion, because
there might be other religions,but it's the same sort of
belief, set, set of beliefs whenit comes to this.
And you can still and this isgoing to be controversial- Y'all
get ready for this.
You can still believe that Godmade just Adam and Eve and treat
(17:30):
homosexuals like humans.
Oh my God, I said it.
Miss LuLu (17:36):
Yeah, I mean, what's really fascinating to me is just
it feels so one side of theconversation, of Christianity in
and of itself, in the sensethat most Christians, if you're
Christians, you believe inChrist.
The idea is the New Testamentis sort of the mainstay of the
(17:58):
thing.
Right, the Old Testament isthere to give us a lot of
lessons and a lot of context anda lot of background, but we're
Christians because we believe inthe New Testament, right, and
you know, what's reallyfascinating is Jesus made
friends with people who weresinful, who were considered
sinful.
So even if that is yourperspective, it's not mine your
(18:25):
perspective, it's not mine.
If that is your perspective asa Christian, that this is a deep
sin that you are committing bybeing that, that still doesn't
free you from the basic tenantof Christianity, which is love
your neighbor as yourself.
Fatima Bey (18:38):
There's so many other deep sins, as you like to
say, that we still befriendpeople and deal with, and it's
just silly to me that we favorone over the other and even all
other deep sins.
I still treat them like they'rehuman.
I don't treat them anydifferent than I do anybody else
.
Now, if you're something like achild molester, that's a
(19:01):
different story.
Because you're not a human,that's a different story.
Because you're not a human,that's a different story.
But anything else, if Goddoesn't see you as less than
human, then neither do I.
Miss LuLu (19:10):
And I think the real answer to why that one gets
singled out so much more thetrans or the sexual, you know,
homosexual or bisexual oranything like that is it makes
us uncomfortable.
If we don't live in that worldit makes us uncomfortable and
because we're uncomfortable wejust don't choose right, whereas
(19:33):
if this friend I have, and I'vehad for a long time cheats on
their spouse, I'm notuncomfortable because that
didn't occur to me.
Well, okay, that's probablymore clearly of a laid out sin
in the Bible than homosexualityis.
And yet a lot of churches arefilled with a lot of people who
(19:54):
have cheated in their historyand space and we openly talk
about that of like you'reforgiven and you're forgiven,
and it's because it activelymakes us uncomfortable.
We don't understand it becausewe haven't experienced it or we
worry what that means, for whatother people are thinking about
us at any given moment in time.
It doesn't have anything to dowith you and I wish that people
(20:18):
ultimately got to that place.
It's not about you all the timegot to that place.
It's not about you all the time.
It's about making sure thateverybody feels human and
everybody can feel connected toa community, because that is how
we are made.
Fatima Bey (20:33):
Yes, I really think, and I'll be honest with you
audience.
Y'all know I have no problemtalking about uncomfortable
conversations.
I have them all the time.
This is the most uncomfortableconversation I've had, actually,
but I don't believe that Ishould tell people to do what
I'm not willing to do myself,and this is something I'm always
telling other people to do.
So I already said this to MsLulu beforehand.
(20:54):
I'm like, yeah, this is anuncomfortable conversation for
me, but I think it's importantto have one from a balanced
perspective, where and againbecause Christians especially
are villainized for notbelieving in homosexuality, or
villainize those who arehomosexual Instead of how about
(21:18):
we have a conversation from ahuman perspective, even if we
walk away disagreeing, that'sokay.
I'm not saying you're less thanhuman.
I'm saying I don't believe inyour lifestyle, so to speak.
But at the end of the day,we're still talking about human
beings and I think it's soimportant that that message gets
(21:39):
across.
So we're talking about westarted off talking about
suicides.
You know rates among those whoare part of the alphabet
community and homosexuals are,again, only one part, so, but
for all of them, the reason Iwanted to have this conversation
is because one of the reasonsthey are so suicidal is because
(22:00):
of people like us, theChristians, people who don't and
again, it's not just Christians, because there are other
religions that are just have thesame exact stance.
But the people like us who say,ok, well, homosexuality is
wrong.
God didn't create you that way,so therefore we have to treat
(22:20):
you like you're less than human,and that is where we make the
mistake and where we become thevillains.
Even and unfortunately there'sa lot, there's a lot of mother
that actually teach us to bevillains, and that's not really
the point.
And I, as a, as a human being,I love our youth, no matter how,
where they are in their journey, whether they're confused,
whether they have everythingfigured out, whatever, how,
(22:42):
where they are in their journey,whether they're confused,
whether they have everythingfigured out, whatever, they're
still human.
I still care.
So I still care about thosepeople too, you know, because
they're still human.
They're still human.
They're still human.
Are y'all listening to me?
They're still human.
They still need the same thingthe rest of us need, and just my
heart goes out to them.
(23:03):
You know what I have learned indealing with transgender not
transvestite, actually inparticular, because I make
wedding gowns and there's acouple of I'm making design
dresses.
There's a couple of times whereI've actually made them for men
who are transvestites and youknow what I've done with them,
had really blunt and honestconversations about their
transvestitism and I don't thinkeither one of them was trans.
(23:29):
No one of them actually wastransgendered.
But one of them was shockedbecause I custom made a dress
for him and he was.
He knows I'm Christian.
He was shocked because I didn'ttreat him like an animal and he
was vulnerable with me.
He was actually.
It was hard for him to bereally honest with me about
certain things.
I'm like okay, so let's justdeal with it.
And I didn't treat him like Iwould any other customer because
(23:54):
I take care of all of mycustomers and I was kind of
taken back at how shocked he wasabout it and he doesn't care if
I call him he for those wholike to get offended about
everything.
But I've had these really raw,honest conversations with them
because I don't know what it'slike to be them.
It's the same thing as anyother topic that I talk about.
(24:15):
If I don't know what it's liketo be you, then I want to
understand.
So I think more of us need topractice.
You don't necessarily have tochange.
I'm not asking people to changetheir belief systems.
That's where we make themistake Telling people well, you
shouldn't believe this.
Instead of going there, have aconversation first, because you
can accomplish more with ahonest, raw conversation than
(24:38):
you can with an accusation or ameanness.
And I think that's where we alot of people, a lot of people,
and I would say on both sides,because there's some people that
are part of the alphabetcommunity that are just as
hateful in the other direction.
So I would say on both sides,we need to have raw, honest
conversations with each other.
(25:00):
And you don't necessarily haveto walk away convincing each
other to believe what youbelieve in, but at least
convince each other.
And you don't necessarily haveto walk away convincing each
other to believe what youbelieve in, but at least
convince each other that we'rehuman.
That's all I ask, that's allI'm saying, and I know that, no
matter what I say on this topic,someone's going to have an
issue with it.
So oh well, but you know, Idon't care, I'm going to say
what I want to say.
Anyway, you're going to saywhat you want to say.
(25:20):
But having said all of thatbefore I ask you the last
question.
Do you have any other comments?
Miss LuLu (25:27):
You know, I think it's really fascinating the body
dysmorphia that happens.
So, for those of you who mightnot know, body dysmorphia is
when you feel like somethingabout your body is not what you
expected it to be, or it doesn'tfeel right, and so that's.
It's the path that thetransgender community starts on
(25:47):
is like this body doesn't feellike the right body I'm supposed
to be in, and right, I've neverlived that experience.
I'm right, you know, it's thiswhite female.
Right, I don't know thatexperience.
I have always lived in thisbody and I've been fine.
However, find something aboutthe situation you can connect to
(26:08):
and so, just like you weretalking about with you know,
these people, if you find thatthread of connection, it just
allows you to set aside all theelements that you can understand
, because they just are sooutside of your realm of reality
and what makes sense to you.
Find some sort of common thread.
So for me, as I've aged, one ofthe things that all through my
(26:31):
youth, all through my youngadult time and I'm now, you know
, getting that middle-agedsection my hair was a really big
deal and it wasn't like I hadthe best hairstyle or you know,
but it was just, it was acentral part of my identity and
you know it was like I can'timagine me with short hair and I
(26:53):
don't, I don't want that andand all these things.
So I have I've had long hairand, you know, spent a lot of
money to to diet and all thosethings all over the way.
And then I had children and inthe pregnancy process you grow a
lot of hair but then you lose aton of hair and what seemed to
happen with each pregnancy Ididn't grow hair back, like it
just didn't come back the sameway.
(27:15):
And so you know, I know thatthe audience can't see me right
now, but you know I'm sittinghere looking.
You know I don't know that youeven have known this about me at
this point, but you know thisis not real hair.
Right, I'm wearing a wig becauselast year my hair got so thin
(27:36):
that and I spend so much of mylife right now because I work
remotely on video conferencing,so I'm looking at myself a lot
because of, you know, the littlebox that has your image and I
could just see into my scalpline and it was just.
I recognized what that did tome, right, and like it.
(27:56):
It maybe, and and and you canlook at me, I'm I'm not a big
person with makeup, I'm not abig high fashion person, you
know, I'm a pretty low keyperson and that made a big
difference on just how Inavigated the world.
So last year I shaved it alloff and I said you know, I will
give my scalp some time to heal,I will buy a wig, I will
(28:19):
traverse the universe with wigsin such a way that I feel like I
look okay with who I am.
That is a thread, and a smallthread, a small sliver, of
seeing what it is like to livein a body that you're not happy
with.
People who are more overweightthan they want to be, have that
(28:39):
image.
People who can't grow, you know, can't create muscle the way
they want to have that threadright.
Find that thread of there issomething about ourselves that
we struggle with and thenmagnify that times a hundred and
imagine if that was the worldyou lived in every day.
What would you want someone todo to you?
(29:01):
And it's?
You would want them to becompassionate.
You would want them to be kind.
You would want them to befriendly and humorous and
curious, right, and notjudgmental and harsh and cruel,
because guess what?
We're all.
You were talking about this inour prep session.
What we do to ourselves almostalways is worse than what the
(29:21):
world around us is doing, andthat's what leads to suicide,
because you then internalize itand you magnify it, times
however much, and it becomes sooverwhelming that the thought of
escape from this planet is justmuch better than staying in it.
Fatima Bey (29:38):
And that just hurts my heart to even hear that,
because I just I don't wantanybody to feel that way.
I know I can't stop it, but Ijust hate for people to feel
that way.
It's, it's a big deal and Ithink that more of us need to
really think about this.
(30:01):
Part of the conversation goesbeyond just the community.
We're talking about how do wetreat people who just aren't
like us?
Right, they can look like you,but they're not like you because
they like different music andthey have a different background
and maybe speak a differentlanguage.
How do we treat people that arenot like us?
Do we take the time to actuallyconnect with their humanness?
(30:22):
That really matters.
Miss LuLu (30:25):
And is it worth capitalizing on their pain to
have expressed a judgmentagainst us?
What is expressing thatjudgment going to earn you Right
?
Fatima Bey (30:37):
Oh, it's going to make you be better, because I
said so, like that's the mindset, and it is just foolish and it
just does more harm than good.
It really does Do more goodthan harm, and sometimes it
means walking away from certainthings, but do more good than
harm.
So one last question whatadvice do you have for youth
around the world right now?
(30:57):
But I specifically want you totalk to the people in what I'm
calling the alphabet community.
Talk to them.
What advice do you have forthem right now?
Miss LuLu (31:20):
and private.
Some of these people have to beexceedingly careful.
So I am not unaware of thatright.
If you write something down andthen that gets found right,
that's not safe because thatbecomes the way that you get
harmed right.
But find an outlet, whetherthat is, you know, a friend, you
know that's a luxury that notall of us have.
But online, the benefit ofonline is it can magnify the
(31:43):
pain, it can magnify the harm,it can magnify that and it also
can connect people to peoplethat they wouldn't normally have
access to.
So organizations like theTrevor Project, organizations
like the Trevor Project, wherethey're available online and
while they target the UScommunity, they do accept,
(32:05):
especially because a lot of thepeople that are coming in are
coming in over their chatplatform or their text platform,
and so the chat platform isaccessible worldwide.
And there are other programs outthere where you can connect
with another real human beingand try to have a conversation
right, and try to have it in asafe place right.
(32:26):
Go to a public library and doit on that computer.
You know, use some sort ofpublic device that allows you to
have this conversation, or justbe really careful to delete
your browser history or whatever.
But find those spaces where youcan let out finally what you
(32:46):
have been cramming and shovingso deeply inside, because you
are so fearful of theramifications of sharing that
with people directly around you,because it has to come out.
It is poisonous to themselvesto just sit in that.
And just because there's nocognitive dissonance, then as
(33:09):
soon as your brain goes, yep,this is just the reality.
I am never going to be allowedto be myself.
And nobody ever gets tochallenge you on that.
Nobody ever inserts a counterposition.
You're stuck there.
And so find a place, find anoutlet where you can have even
(33:31):
an anonymous conversation andyou know, sometimes for people
it's writing poetry where it'ssomebody else's story right, I'm
not writing mine, and sometimesthat's allowed and sometimes it
.
If you experience love and I'mnot sure that everyone does, to
be quite honest, but if youexperience love, I have to
(34:13):
imagine that you don't want thatperson to commit suicide.
You don't want that person tothink that the world is so awful
.
The better thing is for them toend their own life.
So if that is a reality for you,then find a way to let people
know that they can sharesomething with you and you can
keep it in confidence with them,because you might be that one
(34:40):
outlet that I'm talking about,that that person could find and
you never know when you will bethat one outlet that somebody
needed at the right time to savetheir life.
Fatima Bey (34:47):
I just want to reiterate I strongly agree that,
for I'm thinking about peopleoutside the US.
If you're in a country like, Idon't know, liberia, just
pulling up a country out ofnowhere where you know you could
be really seriously hurt forbeing homosexual, for example.
Online communities are the oneplace where distance doesn't
(35:14):
matter, you know, and there areplenty of them doesn't matter,
you know, and there are plentyof them.
Facebook is probably the bestplace for online communities and
outside of the US, facebook isthe number one platform.
Lasti checked anyway, I wouldrecommend specifically to look
on Facebook to find a communitythat can help you to not lose
(35:34):
your mind, so you don't get tothe point where you are feeling
suicidal.
Miss LuLu (35:39):
And just make sure right.
There's really cool programsnow that allow you to keep
something right.
So maybe you have your Facebookprofile and then you build an
anonymous another one that livesin a protected space right and
just really making sure that youfeel safe, that there's the
right levels of protection, sothat you can find a community
(36:01):
that you can be open with inmoments of safety.
Fatima Bey (36:04):
Yes, well, ms Lulu, I have absolutely loved having
you on here, and I'm glad that Iwaited for you to have this
conversation.
There are certain conversationsthat I haven't had yet because
I'm waiting for the right person.
I'm very particular, and I wantsomeone who can be balanced
enough to have a rawconversation without going nuts,
(36:27):
and so I'm really glad that youcame on and that you genuinely
try to have a balancedconversation, even off air.
So I just want to publicly saythank you for coming on and
having this conversation with me.
Miss LuLu (36:42):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
This was a hard conversation, Iunderstand, but I'm glad that
you were able to shed some light, because there's enough
darkness.
Amen to that.
Fatima Bey (36:56):
And now for a mind shifting moment.
We talked about a lot in thisconversation, but I want to pull
back for a second and talkabout the bigger conversation,
which goes beyond the alphabetcommunity.
(37:16):
You see, we never know whatpeople are going through.
We don't know what mental ledgethey're walking on, and
sometimes your word, yourattitude can say things that
push them over the edge.
Over the edge into suicide,over the edge into self-harm,
over the edge into diving into asituation that is another form
(37:40):
of self-harm.
You don't know what weight yourwords carry, because you can't
always see where people are.
So I'm going to leave you withthis your words, your attitude,
your actions, they matter, theypush, they pull.
When it comes to dealing withpeople who are different than
you, no matter what thatdifference is, how do you treat
(38:01):
them?
When it comes to how you treatpeople, I want you to answer
this question Are you the reasonthey want to die?
You've been listening to mindshift power podcast.
(38:25):
For complete show notes on thisepisode and to join our global
movement, find us atfatimabaycom until next time.
Always remember there's powerin shifting your thinking.
Hello and welcome everyone.
Due to the nature of this topicand organizations involved, my
guest today is going to use analias, so today we have with us
Miss Lulu.
She is from the USA and this isa very sensitive topic.
It's very controversial and, asyou know, I don't stay away
from those, but especially onthe world stage right now it's a
(00:46):
very sensitive topic, so I wantto read to you some numbers
that I discovered that I thinkare relevant to this topic, and
this is according to the TrevorProject's 2023 survey.
A staggering 41% of the LGBTQplus young people seriously
(01:10):
considered attempting suicide inthe past year.
As we're recording this, thisis 2025.
I don't know if those numbershave gone up or not, but I'm
going to guess they probablyhave.
And for transgendered andnon-binary young people, the
numbers are even moredevastating.
Nearly one in fivetransgendered and non-binary
(01:31):
youth attempted suicide in thepast year.
And, just as an FYI, lgbtq plusis too much of a tongue twister
for me, so I will say alphabetcommunity, and that is not meant
in a derogatory term, is meantfor, so that I can say it easier
.
So when you hear me using thatreference, that's all that I
(01:54):
really mean.
So how are you doing today,Miss Lulu?
Miss LuLu (01:57):
I'm doing well, thank you.
Fatima Bey (02:00):
I'm glad that you came on today and, first of all,
thank you for being willing totalk about this, and you are
just the right person to havethis conversation, so tell us
why you're here.
Miss LuLu (02:11):
So when I saw the description of what it is you
talk about, I think for me.
I have young women, I havechildren and I am incredibly
nervous about the world thatthey are going to grow up in.
And I have worked with so manypeople that have told me
(02:32):
incredibly powerful andincredibly vulnerable and
incredibly devastating stories,and I see so much of the world
where there's just a lack ofunderstanding and that lack of
understanding creates real painfor a lot of people and, you
know, it creates death evenright, and it's just really
(02:56):
tragic that if people couldrelate a little bit more, if
they could internalize, if theycould have a personal experience
, if they could hear some ofthese very vulnerable stories,
perhaps they might choose adifferent course of action.
So certainly, if I can sharesome of what I have been allowed
(03:18):
to hear and it can allow otherpeople to understand a different
perspective than the onethey've had, then that would be
incredibly valuable.
But more so than that, it'sreally just trying to broadcast
the world that I hope that mygirls grow up in.
Fatima Bey (03:36):
Yes, Now, when it comes.
We're here to talk aboutsuicide amongst the alphabet
community.
It is a really big deal.
I just read some numbers and Ialso want to add to that for the
audience.
I don't care what the numberssay.
They're always higher than whatthey count, it's true on a lot
(03:56):
of topics, because they can onlycapture what they can capture.
They're not going to get aresponse from everyone.
Everything's not going to getcounted.
So, with that being said, I'mgoing to guess that those
numbers are actually probablyhigher.
And the one in fivetransgendered that have
attempted suicide over the pastyear I am positive that they
(04:19):
don't know about.
The other two, you know, theyonly know what's reported, and
there's a lot that's notreported that their friends
might know about.
But you know, anybody who'slistening to me knows that I
have a big heart and compassionfor hurting people, period, no
matter who those hurting peopleare.
And so today we're going totalk about the hurting people
(04:39):
who are a part of that community.
So I want to ask you this whyshould we care if no one in our
family is a part of the alphabetcommunity?
I don't know anybody who's gayor transgender, so why should I
care?
Miss LuLu (04:52):
Yeah, and then that can be a real challenge,
especially if you are sort ofsurrounded by a community that
actively doesn't support that.
So a lot of religiouscommunities, for example that,
so a lot of religiouscommunities for example,
publicly don't support thatgroup, and so why should I care?
Everybody around me has thesame opinion.
You know that this doesn'tapply to me, and I think one of
(05:14):
the really impactful things,having worked in a crisis
hotline situation, is how manypeople are dealing with this
silently?
Yeah, and so you probably dohave people around you who are
dealing with this, and itdoesn't mean that they are, you
(05:36):
know, flamboyantly inside a verystrong gay person that you know
has stuffed it down.
There's varying degrees of thisand there's oh my gosh, I was
once, you know, aroused by apicture of another woman and I
didn't expect that.
Or you know, a man saying thatand just like, oh gosh, what
(05:56):
does that make me?
And sort of this.
There's spots in our life thatwe don't broadcast to other
people, and it's amazing to methat the stories that I have had
shared with me I can't tellanybody, right, nobody around me
knows, and it means that thesepeople are living in extreme
(06:19):
loneliness, with very darkthoughts, and that is such a bad
combination.
It's like a form of torture, itreally is.
And you know understanding thatyou might have to choose
between having a family andbeing able to tell your truth,
or you know whatever that mightmean, and so just being generous
(06:43):
to the concepts of it andrecognizing that when you say a
really heavy thing, right, oh,they deserve that.
Or you know some of thosethings that we've heard of you
know well, you know, no wonderthey're suicidal.
You know why do they deserve?
And the problem is is thatsomebody around you might
(07:04):
internalize that in a way you'renot even expecting, and it
might not even be about LGBTQ.
The problem is is that it's adifference, it's a thing that we
can point out that makes acertain group different than a
mainstream group.
And so if I have somedifference, hey, I'm dyslexic,
that makes me different and Ifeel really weird about my
differences.
And, gosh, you don't seem to beaccepting about people who are
(07:27):
different than you in that space.
Maybe you're just not allowedto be different at all.
And then that just leads to aworld where we're all trying to
conform to this thing that veryfew of us actually are, because
we think that is what's requiredof us to be part of the
community, and so you know,that's really why I think it
(07:47):
matters.
Fatima Bey (07:48):
So what I'm hearing, what I'm extracting from what
you're saying, is that thereason we should care is because
of the mental effects that ithas of other people around us
that we're not always aware of.
We don't know everything, wedon't know what other people are
going through, and I completelyagree with you.
There have been times where Ihave personally myself said
something.
You know times in the pastwhere I've said something and I
(08:10):
was just making a statementabout how I felt about something
, not fully aware that I wasactually talking about the
person next to me, right, andthen finding out later that I
was, and it's like, oh crap,maybe I shouldn't have said all
of that.
And I'm a very blunt, directperson and I say I do speak my
mind, but sometimes there's waysof doing it, and it's not
(08:32):
always necessary, but even if itis, there's a way you can do it
that's not as judgmental, or atleast come across that way.
You just don't know what peopleare dealing with, and this is
something that you havepersonally had a lot of
experience with, with the peoplearound you and working with
this community a lot, which iswhy I have you on here, and so
(08:53):
you have an understanding that Idon't.
I don't have an understandingof what it's like to be any part
of that community, but I dohave people around me that are
and understand that they're justas human as me and everybody
else.
Miss LuLu (09:05):
Right.
Fatima Bey (09:06):
But they have.
Would you agree that people inthat community have nuanced
issues that maybe the rest of usdon't understand?
Miss LuLu (09:14):
Absolutely.
I mean you talk aboutintersectionality, right, and
you start adding relationshipdynamics and family dynamics and
you know race and ethnicity andreligion and right, the
intersectionality of some ofthese communities gets so
complicated because there isjust so many layers to their
identity that feel othered that,yeah, the nuance there is very
(09:39):
individual and you know an urbanyouth who felt, you know, maybe
their communities felt moreaccepting and so they were able
to be out at a very young ageand free.
They still are at risk forsuicidal thoughts for plenty of
other reasons, and the internetand the public exposure to
(10:02):
absolutely everyone in theuniverse, doesn't free them, but
certainly those in communitieswho are less accepting and
therefore they are juststruggling to figure out am I
even allowed to be here, am Iallowed to be in this space?
And you know what parts ofmyself do I have to shove down
and hide in order to be anacceptable member here?
Fatima Bey (10:26):
Now I want to mention this because we're both
American.
We're here in the US.
This topic is less.
It's still an issue here in theUS, but it's a lot more
accepted here and I would sayit's less of an issue here than
it is in many.
Most of the world.
This is still a very, very,very sensitive topic.
(10:48):
We don't have the numbers forthose communities.
There's really no real way toget them because most of these
other societies, even if youhave numbers, they're probably
not real because they don't careto capture the real ones.
It's difficult to capture thereal numbers.
So, without looking at theirnumbers, why do you think and
I'm talking on a universal sensewhy do you think suicides are
(11:12):
so high among that community?
Miss LuLu (11:14):
it's more accepting in the US.
It is safer to be some of thesecommunity members in the US and
yet it's not safe here.
You know a lot of these peoplehave stories about basic
(11:35):
bullying.
I mean even basic bullying canbe very dangerous and being
chased and being, you know,nervous to walk around at night.
I mean, as a woman I can relateto that right and so it is more
accepting and that just makesit that much worse to understand
what it must like to live inother spaces where it is more
(11:56):
dangerous.
You are at more risk, right,because it's just that much more
so.
What's really interesting to meis I don't know if this is new,
I don't know if this isn't theway it has been or it's just
more accessible now due to theinternet and due to, you know,
the young generation'swillingness to share some of
(12:17):
these things.
But suicidal ideation startsreally young for certain people,
and so these are thoughts thathave been, they have lived with
for a very long, sometimesstarting at six, seven, eight
years old which I can't, I can'tunderstand, I can't relate to
(12:37):
that directly.
I have never been in asituation where the thoughts
were so dark that I didn't knowhow to come back from them.
I've been deeply sad, I've beenthrough some really hard times,
but my brain doesn't work thatway, and I think it's really
(12:58):
important to recognize that,because I've now been exposed to
people in my personal life thattheir brain does, and I have to
just accept that that is adifference, that I don't need to
have that experience in orderto just say, hey, that is your
reality.
And because that's your reality, let me help you where you are,
(13:20):
not where I am, and thathappens so little that I think
globally when we're talkingabout access to support.
As soon as you start feelinginhuman, as soon as you start
feeling like there is no hope oraccess to be this person that
you feel inside, then is lifereally worth living?
(13:42):
Yeah, and so even with supports, if you aren't able to be
honest with people, you'recramming these emotions that you
are feeling on a regular basisdown and down and down, and we
all know that not only do thoseemotions have real impacts to
your psyche and your ability tobe a functional person, but they
(14:08):
have physical ramifications.
That much emotional turmoilcomes out physically, and so
some of these people are sickand it just feels like life will
never get better, life willalways be this hard, and so it
just doesn't feel like there's alot of alternatives for this
group if they can't find theirin-circle and what's wonderful
(14:31):
is, some people do find theirin-circle and then they are able
to thrive, but they have tousually grow up enough.
Fatima Bey (14:56):
To then be able to be mobile enough to be able to
find, to say and if you aretransgendered, if you are
homosexual or anything, thereare places in the world that
they'll just kill you.
They will literally kill you,and if they don't kill you,
they'll, at minimal, ostracizeyou to the point where you don't
(15:17):
feel human anymore, which Ipersonally feel is wrong.
Humans are humans, period, andit's something that you hear
coming from me all the time Ifyou listen to this podcast at
all.
I believe that humans arehumans and I'm going to bring
this up because this is verycontroversial and I don't like
to ignore controversy.
I like to address it.
I'm a Christian and there aremany people who are Christians
(15:39):
that might be even pissed offthat I'm even having this
episode because I'm not comingat homosexuality as you're wrong
.
Get straight and shut up, likethat's not my mentality, even
believing that homosexuality isnot created by God, because many
of the Christians out therebelieve that that does not take
(16:00):
away from them being human, andI want to say that out loud.
And the reason I'm saying thatis because I think a balanced
conversation needs to happenaround this topic, and I very
rarely ever hear that it'seither way over on the left or
way over on the right, and Idon't hear a conversation in the
middle that kind of understandsboth.
And just because and I'm sayingthis in representation for not
(16:25):
myself, necessarily, but forother Christians out there,
because it is an issue, and notjust in the US, but across the
world Just because someone is apart of you know, what I'm
saying is the alphabet community, and I'm generalizing it
doesn't make them less human.
God still cares about them justas much as me, and I strongly,
(16:46):
truly believe that.
I have a sister who's beenmarried to a woman for over 20
years and we love her we reallydo.
She's part of the family.
My mother loves her, like therest of us, and it never would
occur to me to treat anybody asless than human, and that's a
message that I want to getacross to the listeners out
(17:07):
there who are Christian orwhatever other religion, because
there might be other religions,but it's the same sort of
belief, set, set of beliefs whenit comes to this.
And you can still and this isgoing to be controversial- Y'all
get ready for this.
You can still believe that Godmade just Adam and Eve and treat
(17:30):
homosexuals like humans.
Oh my God, I said it.
Miss LuLu (17:36):
Yeah, I mean, what's really fascinating to me is just
it feels so one side of theconversation, of Christianity in
and of itself, in the sensethat most Christians, if you're
Christians, you believe inChrist.
The idea is the New Testamentis sort of the mainstay of the
(17:58):
thing.
Right, the Old Testament isthere to give us a lot of
lessons and a lot of context anda lot of background, but we're
Christians because we believe inthe New Testament, right, and
you know, what's reallyfascinating is Jesus made
friends with people who weresinful, who were considered
sinful.
So even if that is yourperspective, it's not mine your
(18:25):
perspective, it's not mine.
If that is your perspective asa Christian, that this is a deep
sin that you are committing bybeing that, that still doesn't
free you from the basic tenantof Christianity, which is love
your neighbor as yourself.
Fatima Bey (18:38):
There's so many other deep sins, as you like to
say, that we still befriendpeople and deal with, and it's
just silly to me that we favorone over the other and even all
other deep sins.
I still treat them like they'rehuman.
I don't treat them anydifferent than I do anybody else
.
Now, if you're something like achild molester, that's a
(19:01):
different story.
Because you're not a human,that's a different story.
Because you're not a human,that's a different story.
But anything else, if Goddoesn't see you as less than
human, then neither do I.
Miss LuLu (19:10):
And I think the real answer to why that one gets
singled out so much more thetrans or the sexual, you know,
homosexual or bisexual oranything like that is it makes
us uncomfortable.
If we don't live in that worldit makes us uncomfortable and
because we're uncomfortable wejust don't choose right, whereas
(19:33):
if this friend I have, and I'vehad for a long time cheats on
their spouse, I'm notuncomfortable because that
didn't occur to me.
Well, okay, that's probablymore clearly of a laid out sin
in the Bible than homosexualityis.
And yet a lot of churches arefilled with a lot of people who
(19:54):
have cheated in their historyand space and we openly talk
about that of like you'reforgiven and you're forgiven,
and it's because it activelymakes us uncomfortable.
We don't understand it becausewe haven't experienced it or we
worry what that means, for whatother people are thinking about
us at any given moment in time.
It doesn't have anything to dowith you and I wish that people
(20:18):
ultimately got to that place.
It's not about you all the timegot to that place.
It's not about you all the time.
It's about making sure thateverybody feels human and
everybody can feel connected toa community, because that is how
we are made.
Fatima Bey (20:33):
Yes, I really think, and I'll be honest with you
audience.
Y'all know I have no problemtalking about uncomfortable
conversations.
I have them all the time.
This is the most uncomfortableconversation I've had, actually,
but I don't believe that Ishould tell people to do what
I'm not willing to do myself,and this is something I'm always
telling other people to do.
So I already said this to MsLulu beforehand.
(20:54):
I'm like, yeah, this is anuncomfortable conversation for
me, but I think it's importantto have one from a balanced
perspective, where and againbecause Christians especially
are villainized for notbelieving in homosexuality, or
villainize those who arehomosexual Instead of how about
(21:18):
we have a conversation from ahuman perspective, even if we
walk away disagreeing, that'sokay.
I'm not saying you're less thanhuman.
I'm saying I don't believe inyour lifestyle, so to speak.
But at the end of the day,we're still talking about human
beings and I think it's soimportant that that message gets
(21:39):
across.
So we're talking about westarted off talking about
suicides.
You know rates among those whoare part of the alphabet
community and homosexuals are,again, only one part, so, but
for all of them, the reason Iwanted to have this conversation
is because one of the reasonsthey are so suicidal is because
(22:00):
of people like us, theChristians, people who don't and
again, it's not just Christians, because there are other
religions that are just have thesame exact stance.
But the people like us who say,ok, well, homosexuality is
wrong.
God didn't create you that way,so therefore we have to treat
(22:20):
you like you're less than human,and that is where we make the
mistake and where we become thevillains.
Even and unfortunately there'sa lot, there's a lot of mother
that actually teach us to bevillains, and that's not really
the point.
And I, as a, as a human being,I love our youth, no matter how,
where they are in their journey, whether they're confused,
whether they have everythingfigured out, whatever, how,
(22:42):
where they are in their journey,whether they're confused,
whether they have everythingfigured out, whatever, they're
still human.
I still care.
So I still care about thosepeople too, you know, because
they're still human.
They're still human.
They're still human.
Are y'all listening to me?
They're still human.
They still need the same thingthe rest of us need, and just my
heart goes out to them.
(23:03):
You know what I have learned indealing with transgender not
transvestite, actually inparticular, because I make
wedding gowns and there's acouple of I'm making design
dresses.
There's a couple of times whereI've actually made them for men
who are transvestites and youknow what I've done with them,
had really blunt and honestconversations about their
transvestitism and I don't thinkeither one of them was trans.
(23:29):
No one of them actually wastransgendered.
But one of them was shockedbecause I custom made a dress
for him and he was.
He knows I'm Christian.
He was shocked because I didn'ttreat him like an animal and he
was vulnerable with me.
He was actually.
It was hard for him to bereally honest with me about
certain things.
I'm like okay, so let's justdeal with it.
And I didn't treat him like Iwould any other customer because
(23:54):
I take care of all of mycustomers and I was kind of
taken back at how shocked he wasabout it and he doesn't care if
I call him he for those wholike to get offended about
everything.
But I've had these really raw,honest conversations with them
because I don't know what it'slike to be them.
It's the same thing as anyother topic that I talk about.
(24:15):
If I don't know what it's liketo be you, then I want to
understand.
So I think more of us need topractice.
You don't necessarily have tochange.
I'm not asking people to changetheir belief systems.
That's where we make themistake Telling people well, you
shouldn't believe this.
Instead of going there, have aconversation first, because you
can accomplish more with ahonest, raw conversation than
(24:38):
you can with an accusation or ameanness.
And I think that's where we alot of people, a lot of people,
and I would say on both sides,because there's some people that
are part of the alphabetcommunity that are just as
hateful in the other direction.
So I would say on both sides,we need to have raw, honest
conversations with each other.
(25:00):
And you don't necessarily haveto walk away convincing each
other to believe what youbelieve in, but at least
convince each other.
And you don't necessarily haveto walk away convincing each
other to believe what youbelieve in, but at least
convince each other that we'rehuman.
That's all I ask, that's allI'm saying, and I know that, no
matter what I say on this topic,someone's going to have an
issue with it.
So oh well, but you know, Idon't care, I'm going to say
what I want to say.
Anyway, you're going to saywhat you want to say.
(25:20):
But having said all of thatbefore I ask you the last
question.
Do you have any other comments?
Miss LuLu (25:27):
You know, I think it's really fascinating the body
dysmorphia that happens.
So, for those of you who mightnot know, body dysmorphia is
when you feel like somethingabout your body is not what you
expected it to be, or it doesn'tfeel right, and so that's.
It's the path that thetransgender community starts on
(25:47):
is like this body doesn't feellike the right body I'm supposed
to be in, and right, I've neverlived that experience.
I'm right, you know, it's thiswhite female.
Right, I don't know thatexperience.
I have always lived in thisbody and I've been fine.
However, find something aboutthe situation you can connect to
(26:08):
and so, just like you weretalking about with you know,
these people, if you find thatthread of connection, it just
allows you to set aside all theelements that you can understand
, because they just are sooutside of your realm of reality
and what makes sense to you.
Find some sort of common thread.
So for me, as I've aged, one ofthe things that all through my
(26:31):
youth, all through my youngadult time and I'm now, you know
, getting that middle-agedsection my hair was a really big
deal and it wasn't like I hadthe best hairstyle or you know,
but it was just, it was acentral part of my identity and
you know it was like I can'timagine me with short hair and I
(26:53):
don't, I don't want that andand all these things.
So I have I've had long hairand, you know, spent a lot of
money to to diet and all thosethings all over the way.
And then I had children and inthe pregnancy process you grow a
lot of hair but then you lose aton of hair and what seemed to
happen with each pregnancy Ididn't grow hair back, like it
just didn't come back the sameway.
(27:15):
And so you know, I know thatthe audience can't see me right
now, but you know I'm sittinghere looking.
You know I don't know that youeven have known this about me at
this point, but you know thisis not real hair.
Right, I'm wearing a wig becauselast year my hair got so thin
(27:36):
that and I spend so much of mylife right now because I work
remotely on video conferencing,so I'm looking at myself a lot
because of, you know, the littlebox that has your image and I
could just see into my scalpline and it was just.
I recognized what that did tome, right, and like it.
(27:56):
It maybe, and and and you canlook at me, I'm I'm not a big
person with makeup, I'm not abig high fashion person, you
know, I'm a pretty low keyperson and that made a big
difference on just how Inavigated the world.
So last year I shaved it alloff and I said you know, I will
give my scalp some time to heal,I will buy a wig, I will
(28:19):
traverse the universe with wigsin such a way that I feel like I
look okay with who I am.
That is a thread, and a smallthread, a small sliver, of
seeing what it is like to livein a body that you're not happy
with.
People who are more overweightthan they want to be, have that
(28:39):
image.
People who can't grow, you know, can't create muscle the way
they want to have that threadright.
Find that thread of there issomething about ourselves that
we struggle with and thenmagnify that times a hundred and
imagine if that was the worldyou lived in every day.
What would you want someone todo to you?
(29:01):
And it's?
You would want them to becompassionate.
You would want them to be kind.
You would want them to befriendly and humorous and
curious, right, and notjudgmental and harsh and cruel,
because guess what?
We're all.
You were talking about this inour prep session.
What we do to ourselves almostalways is worse than what the
(29:21):
world around us is doing, andthat's what leads to suicide,
because you then internalize itand you magnify it, times
however much, and it becomes sooverwhelming that the thought of
escape from this planet is justmuch better than staying in it.
Fatima Bey (29:38):
And that just hurts my heart to even hear that,
because I just I don't wantanybody to feel that way.
I know I can't stop it, but Ijust hate for people to feel
that way.
It's, it's a big deal and Ithink that more of us need to
really think about this.
(30:01):
Part of the conversation goesbeyond just the community.
We're talking about how do wetreat people who just aren't
like us?
Right, they can look like you,but they're not like you because
they like different music andthey have a different background
and maybe speak a differentlanguage.
How do we treat people that arenot like us?
Do we take the time to actuallyconnect with their humanness?
(30:22):
That really matters.
Miss LuLu (30:25):
And is it worth capitalizing on their pain to
have expressed a judgmentagainst us?
What is expressing thatjudgment going to earn you Right
?
Fatima Bey (30:37):
Oh, it's going to make you be better, because I
said so, like that's the mindset, and it is just foolish and it
just does more harm than good.
It really does Do more goodthan harm, and sometimes it
means walking away from certainthings, but do more good than
harm.
So one last question whatadvice do you have for youth
around the world right now?
(30:57):
But I specifically want you totalk to the people in what I'm
calling the alphabet community.
Talk to them.
What advice do you have forthem right now?
Miss LuLu (31:20):
and private.
Some of these people have to beexceedingly careful.
So I am not unaware of thatright.
If you write something down andthen that gets found right,
that's not safe because thatbecomes the way that you get
harmed right.
But find an outlet, whetherthat is, you know, a friend, you
know that's a luxury that notall of us have.
But online, the benefit ofonline is it can magnify the
(31:43):
pain, it can magnify the harm,it can magnify that and it also
can connect people to peoplethat they wouldn't normally have
access to.
So organizations like theTrevor Project, organizations
like the Trevor Project, wherethey're available online and
while they target the UScommunity, they do accept,
(32:05):
especially because a lot of thepeople that are coming in are
coming in over their chatplatform or their text platform,
and so the chat platform isaccessible worldwide.
And there are other programs outthere where you can connect
with another real human beingand try to have a conversation
right, and try to have it in asafe place right.
(32:26):
Go to a public library and doit on that computer.
You know, use some sort ofpublic device that allows you to
have this conversation, or justbe really careful to delete
your browser history or whatever.
But find those spaces where youcan let out finally what you
(32:46):
have been cramming and shovingso deeply inside, because you
are so fearful of theramifications of sharing that
with people directly around you,because it has to come out.
It is poisonous to themselvesto just sit in that.
And just because there's nocognitive dissonance, then as
(33:09):
soon as your brain goes, yep,this is just the reality.
I am never going to be allowedto be myself.
And nobody ever gets tochallenge you on that.
Nobody ever inserts a counterposition.
You're stuck there.
And so find a place, find anoutlet where you can have even
(33:31):
an anonymous conversation andyou know, sometimes for people
it's writing poetry where it'ssomebody else's story right, I'm
not writing mine, and sometimesthat's allowed and sometimes it
.
If you experience love and I'mnot sure that everyone does, to
be quite honest, but if youexperience love, I have to
(34:13):
imagine that you don't want thatperson to commit suicide.
You don't want that person tothink that the world is so awful
.
The better thing is for them toend their own life.
So if that is a reality for you,then find a way to let people
know that they can sharesomething with you and you can
keep it in confidence with them,because you might be that one
(34:40):
outlet that I'm talking about,that that person could find and
you never know when you will bethat one outlet that somebody
needed at the right time to savetheir life.
Fatima Bey (34:47):
I just want to reiterate I strongly agree that,
for I'm thinking about peopleoutside the US.
If you're in a country like, Idon't know, liberia, just
pulling up a country out ofnowhere where you know you could
be really seriously hurt forbeing homosexual, for example.
Online communities are the oneplace where distance doesn't
(35:14):
matter, you know, and there areplenty of them doesn't matter,
you know, and there are plentyof them.
Facebook is probably the bestplace for online communities and
outside of the US, facebook isthe number one platform.
Lasti checked anyway, I wouldrecommend specifically to look
on Facebook to find a communitythat can help you to not lose
(35:34):
your mind, so you don't get tothe point where you are feeling
suicidal.
Miss LuLu (35:39):
And just make sure right.
There's really cool programsnow that allow you to keep
something right.
So maybe you have your Facebookprofile and then you build an
anonymous another one that livesin a protected space right and
just really making sure that youfeel safe, that there's the
right levels of protection, sothat you can find a community
(36:01):
that you can be open with inmoments of safety.
Fatima Bey (36:04):
Yes, well, ms Lulu, I have absolutely loved having
you on here, and I'm glad that Iwaited for you to have this
conversation.
There are certain conversationsthat I haven't had yet because
I'm waiting for the right person.
I'm very particular, and I wantsomeone who can be balanced
enough to have a rawconversation without going nuts,
(36:27):
and so I'm really glad that youcame on and that you genuinely
try to have a balancedconversation, even off air.
So I just want to publicly saythank you for coming on and
having this conversation with me.
Miss LuLu (36:42):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
This was a hard conversation, Iunderstand, but I'm glad that
you were able to shed some light, because there's enough
darkness.
Amen to that.
Fatima Bey (36:56):
And now for a mind shifting moment.
We talked about a lot in thisconversation, but I want to pull
back for a second and talkabout the bigger conversation,
which goes beyond the alphabetcommunity.
(37:16):
You see, we never know whatpeople are going through.
We don't know what mental ledgethey're walking on, and
sometimes your word, yourattitude can say things that
push them over the edge.
Over the edge into suicide,over the edge into self-harm,
over the edge into diving into asituation that is another form
(37:40):
of self-harm.
You don't know what weight yourwords carry, because you can't
always see where people are.
So I'm going to leave you withthis your words, your attitude,
your actions, they matter, theypush, they pull.
When it comes to dealing withpeople who are different than
you, no matter what thatdifference is, how do you treat
(38:01):
them?
When it comes to how you treatpeople, I want you to answer
this question Are you the reasonthey want to die?
You've been listening to mindshift power podcast.
(38:25):
For complete show notes on thisepisode and to join our global
movement, find us atfatimabaycom until next time.
Always remember there's powerin shifting your thinking.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.