June 10, 2025 • 33 mins
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What happens when hair loss transforms from a cosmetic issue into a mental health concern? Kate Hollahan, owner of Hair Therapy UK and certified trichologist, reveals the hidden world of hair and scalp health that exists in the space between cosmetology and medicine.
Kate shares powerful stories of patients whose lives have been dramatically affected by conditions often dismissed as trivial—from those who've hidden bald patches from spouses for years to clients who'd skip social events due to dandruff. Her work supporting cancer patients through their hair loss journey highlights the profound psychological impact these "cosmetic" issues carry.
But this conversation goes deeper than hair care. Kate challenges persistent stereotypes about vocational careers, having herself been told that hairdressing was for those who weren't "academically promising." Now a highly qualified professional who runs her own clinic, produces a podcast, handles her own marketing, and serves as her own accountant, she demonstrates how artificial the divide between academic and vocational paths truly is.
For young listeners contemplating their futures, Kate offers liberating advice: your career doesn't have to follow a predetermined path. Having retrained at 42, she embodies the idea that professional evolution is not only possible but potentially more fulfilling than staying in a single lane. "Education is never wasted," she reminds us, even if its application changes throughout your life journey.
Whether you're fascinated by the science of trichology or questioning your own career choices, this episode will transform how you think about vocational paths, professional identity, and the unexpected ways our work can profoundly impact others' lives. Subscribe to MindShift Power Podcast and join the conversations shaping tomorrow's world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatima Bey (00:10):
Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the world's only
podcast built to empower thenext generation.
I'm your host, fatima Bey theMindShifter, because shaping
tomorrow's world starts withconversations we have today.
Because shaping tomorrow'sworld starts with conversations
we have today.
And hello everyone.
Today we have with us KateHolohan.
(00:30):
She is from Southeast Englandin the UK.
She is the owner of HairTherapy UK and she is a
trichologist.
How are you doing today, kate?
I'm good.
Thank you, nice to see you.
Nice to see you too.
I'm glad to have you here.
So I like to dive right in.
So tell us what is trichology?
Kate Holohan (00:50):
So trichology is all around the science and the
functions of the hair and scalp.
So as a trichologist I can helppeople with hair loss, hair and
scalp problems, issues likepsoriasis, so basically that bit
more than your averagehairdresser or anyone like that.
(01:11):
So we have a lot oftrichologists in the UK.
You may find in the US that thedermatologists might cover a
lot more hair loss issues andhair and scalp.
Oh okay, but it's specificallyin the UK.
Is hair and scalp specialist?
Fatima Bey (01:30):
I like that.
It's a very niche.
It's a very niche area of.
Is it considered cosmetology inthe UK?
Kate Holohan (01:39):
So it's not quite medical, but it's certainly more
than if you were hairdressing.
So it's kind of in between.
So I like to see it as thatbridge in that gap between
cosmetology and medical.
Fatima Bey (01:57):
Okay, so I want to understand trichology a little
bit more.
It's the study of this hair andscalp.
Why is this even necessary?
Kate Holohan (02:07):
So actually surprisingly so, I've actually
been in the hair industry for 25years, Okay, and I've been in
education for 20.
And I only became aware of theprofession of trichology myself
about four years ago oh wow,myself about four years ago.
So I didn't even know thatthere was a specific hair and
scalp expert that you couldrefer people to to help with
(02:31):
things like hair loss and hairhealth.
In the UK we obviously have theNHS, the National Health System
, and we do get a certain amountof help with different health
issues.
Hair loss is considered acosmetic issue, so we don't
really get any help with thingslike alopecia.
(02:52):
On our health system and so it'svery difficult.
If you go and see a GP, theyoften just tell you oh, it's
just stress, it will go away onits own, or I'll use Rogaine or
Regaine or some kind of chemicaland that will kind of fix it.
There's not really anyone apartfrom a trichologist that can
give you an accurate diagnosisand they can give you help and
(03:16):
they can give you an ongoingkind of treatment plan.
And often, especially forpeople with conditions like
psoriasis or eczema, you can getreally, really severe to the
point where they've got tons ofscaling on their scalp and that
can restrict hair growth.
It can be really, reallydifficult for people.
(03:42):
It can affect their mentalhealth.
It can affect their everydayday-to-day life and there's not
really any kind of other help.
So as a trichologist, I cansupport both GPs and doctors,
and also hairdressers, inhelping those people find the
answers that they need.
Fatima Bey (04:02):
Just as an FYI for those listening who don't know
GP is general practitioner.
Kate Holohan (04:06):
Yeah, so doctor, basically.
Fatima Bey (04:08):
Yeah, basically another word for it.
Do you also help cancerpatients?
Kate Holohan (04:12):
Yeah, I can do.
Yeah, so I've also trained inhow to cut and fit wigs so I can
advise people on things likethe type of wig that they might
get and where to source thatfrom, the type of wig that they
might get and where to sourcethat from, and then I can help
just to shape them in, cut them,make them look a little bit
more like they used to look.
So anyone that's facing cancertreatment or chemotherapy, I can
(04:37):
help them with that, advisethem on things like using a cold
cap, perhaps to help preservetheir hair if they're looking to
have chemotherapy done, and Ican help them before, kind of
during and after, their journey.
Fatima Bey (04:53):
So why did you get into once you discovered that
trichology exists?
Why you got into it?
Because you found itinteresting, obviously, but why
do you keep doing it?
Why do you like what you do?
Kate Holohan (05:13):
So I think that there's quite a point in a lot
of hairdressers' lives wherewhen you first learn
hairdressing, you're so kind ofcaught up on it's like when you
learn to drive you can't reallyfocus on driving because you're
like, oh, what gear am I in?
You know, am I indicating orhave I got my hazard lights on?
Who's that person over there?
You're so focused on whatyou're doing.
And it's the same with hair.
When you first learn hair, justlearning how to cut and colour
(05:37):
hair and how to talk to peopleand how to understand what they
really want and how to makepeople happy is quite a lot to
deal with.
But for those that have been inthe industry for quite a while,
I know I certainly got to thatpoint where I would see clients
come in, you know every weekwith hair loss and bald patches,
scalp conditions, hairconditions and not really have
(06:01):
the answers for them.
I couldn't really help them andI didn't even myself really know
how much I didn't know.
So when we learn hair, we getto talk very little about the
hair and scalp, considering it'swhat we work with every day.
And after studying hair andscalp exclusively with the
(06:23):
Institute of Trichology inLondon for two and a half years,
I learned how much I reallydidn't know, oh wow.
So when you become atrichologist you don't have to
have any background in hairwhatsoever.
Some of the people in my classhad a physics degree or they had
completely differentbackgrounds or they had suffered
hair loss themselves.
(06:44):
They had completely differentbackgrounds or they had suffered
hair loss themselves and thathad given them an interest in
hair loss and then spurred themon to want to help people
themselves.
But for me it was getting tothat point in my career in
hairdressing where I was seeingit all the time and I didn't
really have the answers and Iwanted to know more.
I'm kind of like a perpetualstudent, so I never know enough.
(07:09):
I always want to know more,learn more, and it was really
really interesting so what I'vebeen able to do over the last
few years and the impact thatI've been able to have on
people's lives by being able tohelp them is just a complete
another level.
So hairdressing can be reallyrewarding in itself and
(07:31):
education can be reallyrewarding when you're helping
those people gain thatconfidence, learn more and grow.
But to be able to help peoplewith things that literally can
affect their life day to day,their mental health- you know,
it's just another level for me,so it's really rewarding.
Fatima Bey (07:50):
I think a lot of people.
I just want to kind ofreiterate what you were just
talking about with the mentalhealth piece, because I think a
lot of people don't think abouthow physical ailments or what
might seem cosmetic candramatically affect someone's
life.
If you won't go to partiesbecause you know you're starting
to look bald-headed and you,okay, some people throw wigs on
(08:13):
but maybe you don't want to weara wig, or maybe you can't wear
a wig because it bothers yourskin.
I mean, that's a thing too.
So you know, people don'treally think about the fact that
you might not want to getintimate because you'll have to
take your wig off and he's goingto see how bald you are.
Things like that they canaffect your life.
They can really stop you fromdoing things that you really
should be doing.
Kate Holohan (08:34):
And I've spoken to people.
I've had patients where they'vesaid to me their husband's
never even seen their baldpatches.
Their husband, their family,they haven't shared with anyone
the extent of their hair loss.
You know, that can be really,really isolating, but it doesn't
even have to be a big thing.
One of the patients that I had,who was the most affected by
(08:58):
the hair condition, just hadsimple dandruff and yet she said
to me if she hadn't have beenable to get a scalp treatment
done last December to clear awaythe dandruff, she wouldn't have
gone to her Christmas partybecause she was so
self-conscious about flakes inher hair.
Fatima Bey (09:15):
Yeah, and I think that that is something.
It's one of those unspoken, oneof those silent sufferings.
I'm trying to think of a betterword, but that's how I can
think of right now.
It's something that I thinkpeople.
There's other things too, butpeople suffer with in silence
because they're too embarrassedto really talk about.
So I'm glad that you're able tohelp them and people feel
(09:36):
comfortable coming to you.
So why did you want to come onthe show and talk about this
today?
What in the world does thishave to do with teenagers?
Kate Holohan (09:45):
So I just really do like to talk to young people,
especially in different areasof education, so especially with
hairdressing.
When I started my career inhairdressing, there were quite a
few people on my course thatwere literally told oh, you're
not very bright, go and dohairdressing.
(10:05):
And I actually found it.
I mean obviously it's quiteinsulting, but I also actually
found it really not to be true.
And I just I do a lot of kindof talks in the UK as well
because we have, where I am inKent, we have what's called
grammar schools, so they're kindof selective schools.
(10:26):
You have to sit a test to go tothem, so they're expected to
achieve a lot academically.
Now, for me personally, I wason that path at school.
I was told you know, this isyour expected path.
You go and do A-levels and thenyou go to university and then
you get a proper good job.
(10:49):
I actually ended up moving outof home when I was 17 and I had
to work to support myself and Itried to stay to finish my
qualifications.
But I found that trying to workearn a living.
But I found that trying to work, earn a living, live on my own,
support myself and complete afull time academic course was
(11:09):
just way too much for me.
So in my second year ofA-levels I actually ended up
leaving and I was verydetermined that if I was going
to leave my course, that I wasgoing to go and study a trade
and I was going to go and dosomething that could add value
to my life long term, ratherthan just I wasn't going to just
leave and go and work in asupermarket or something like
(11:31):
that.
So I and I was very creativeand I was doing art anyway for
A-level.
So I was really creative and Ialways loved that kind of thing
and I never wanted to sit in anoffice.
I knew that I would be bored totears if I was sat in a desk
job all day at a computer, justkind of working away.
(11:51):
And so for me to be able to dosomething really creative, but
also something that reallydynamic, that was different
every day as soon as I got a jobin a salon, I absolutely loved
it and it was so fun and I feltthat I'd almost kind of fell
into it by accident because asan academically promising
(12:15):
student those kind ofopportunities weren't offered to
me.
They were only offered to thestudents that looked like they
weren't capable of doing what'sseen as a higher qualification.
Now I have still, over the years, gained the same level of
qualification.
So I've earned certificate ineducation teaching degree, and
(12:38):
I've also earned my level fivetrichology qualification as well
.
So I'm almost kind of qualifiedto degree level.
But I follow my own path and Idid it in a different way and I
did it in a way that I enjoyed alot more and that suited me a
lot more.
And yet I'm still highlyqualified, and so I think it's
(13:01):
really important to just to kindof open those avenues to people
.
So if you're interested insomething, I think it's really
unfair to kind of say oh well,academic qualifications are for
the cleverer, more able studentsand vocational qualifications
or practical qualifications arefor those that are not very
(13:23):
bright or for those that are notcapable academically.
Okay, over the years I've beenin education in many different
fields.
I've worked in colleges, I'vetaught mature students, I've
taught young students.
I a hairdresser and also as atrichology clinic owner.
(13:54):
I have to have a multifacetedapproach.
I am my own accountant.
I'm my own PR.
I am my own marketing company.
I also run a podcast.
I host that.
I produce it.
I've sourced my own guests apodcast I host that.
I produce it.
I've sourced my own guests.
I do my own accounts.
Fatima Bey (14:14):
That sounds familiar .
Kate Holohan (14:14):
I do my own ordering, I do my own stock.
You know, you tell me someonewho's got a degree and gone and
worked in an office who has toknow that much about all those
different elements of business.
If anything, I have to besmarter than those people.
So I think it's really unfair tokind of pigeonhole people and
(14:35):
say to them that just becausethey may be academically gifted
or they may be good at maths orEnglish, that a vocational
qualification or learning atrade should be something that
they shouldn't be interested inor that is seen as less than.
I think that's really unfair.
Fatima Bey (14:54):
I completely agree.
Here in the US and it soundslike it's the same in the UK our
youth are often pushed toparticular career paths that
don't always suit them andsometimes vocational, like you
said, or trade you know here,are seen as less than.
But the truth is and I wassaying to you this before we
(15:15):
recorded sometimes it's foolish,and here's an example an auto
mechanic might come out making Idon't know 75 grand once he
finishes he or she finishestheir trade school.
Another type of engineer,because auto mechanics is
engineering.
So another type of engineermight come out making a hundred
(15:36):
grand.
The difference between the twois the auto mechanic might be
making 25 grand less a year thanthe other engineer, but the
other engineer is paying morethan 25 grand a year back in
loans.
So really, who's making money?
And very often we are pushingour kids towards careers because
we think they're the mostprosperous.
But we have to look at thebigger picture and not just
(15:59):
here's your status symbol, andthose status symbols are often a
lie.
They really, really are.
Kate Holohan (16:05):
The thing is like you said.
You know I could have gone touniversity and end up with loads
of student loans because I wentinto hairdressing and I then
wanted to get into educationbecause when you're in a salon,
a lot of the times it's quite,very supportive and it's like a
bit of a family and you haveyour apprentices come in and you
want to support and grow themand teach them as well.
(16:27):
So when I first got intoeducation, Ivan had worked at a
college.
They then supported me and paidfor me to achieve my teaching
qualifications.
So again, I got thosequalifications.
I didn't have to pay anythingfor that, let alone pay back
loans and interest and stuff.
(16:49):
So it was really beneficial forme to go about it in that way.
If I'd have gone to universityto learn how to be a teacher,
I'd probably still be payingthat back now.
But because I got into anorganization that supported me
and supported growth withintheir kind of whole concept of
their culture, they paid for meto do that as part of just so.
(17:14):
I think sometimes you can stillend up following a similar path
, but there's more than one wayto go about anything really
right, yes, yes, of course.
if someone's really creative andthey're not very academic and
they don't like schoolwork, thenof course something like
hairdressing might be reallyenjoyable for them and it might
(17:36):
be really fun.
Hairdressing and cosmetology isone of those industries where
you can't do it unless you loveit, right.
Fatima Bey (17:45):
And they are very, very happy.
Kate Holohan (17:47):
Hairdressing is one of the industries with the
highest job satisfaction Becausewe have to love it.
You know you can't go into asalon in the morning and say to
your client oh, do you mind if Ijust pretend to do your hair
this morning?
I'm not really feeling it today.
Can I just sit there and justpush a couple of buttons and
just not.
You know I'm not going to talkto you because I don't really
(18:09):
feel like it.
Good point, I'm tired today, socan I just do 50%.
You know we have to be on allthe time, we have to be upbeat,
we have to be positive.
So again, that takes a lot.
You know, personally andprofessionally, it actually
takes a lot.
We have to be very consistent,we have to be very reliable.
(18:30):
You can't phone in sick all thetime if you're a hairdresser,
because you'll end up with noclients.
You cancel on those clientsmore than once and they won't
come back.
So there's a lot to it thatpeople, I think, forget.
But of course, for someonewho's more creatively minded,
they could love it it.
But I just think it is a reallygreat career.
(18:54):
But if you are an intelligentperson and you're driven and
you're motivated, they're thekind of people that can really
take it to another level.
Fatima Bey (19:05):
Right, such as entrepreneurship, like you have.
There are many different waysyou can do whatever field we
want to get into.
There's about many differentways you can do whatever field
we want to get into.
There's about a hundreddifferent ways we can do it, and
I love that you bring out thatpoint.
So you already named a few.
I want to ask you this youalready named a few of them, but
what are the other reasons whya young person should get into
(19:27):
this field at all?
Kate Holohan (19:28):
So, like I said, with trichology, I do feel that
having a background inhairdressing can be a real
advantage.
And it's quite funny because Iknow other students who study
trichology who came from ahairdressing background and they
almost felt intimidated by thestudents that were there with
(19:48):
physics degrees and that wereprofessors or medically trained
doctors.
They felt quite intimidated butalthough those people did very
well on their exams, when itcame to actually practically
treating the patients which isbasically the job once you
finish we had the advantage andI actually felt that my
(20:11):
background and my experiencecounted for a lot and it gave me
a really strong advantage.
And one of the girls on mycourse who had a physics degree
was actually petrified to eventouch someone's head, you know,
because she'd never done it,whereas I was really confident
and I could engage with peopleand connect with them.
So trichology is a very nichesubject.
(20:35):
There's not a lot oftrichologists around, but it is
a great area to get into.
You can really really helppeople and make a massive impact
on their lives.
But it's the same with hair aswell.
It's such a fun, interestingjob to get into that it is a
really, really good kind ofavenue to go for a career, but
(20:57):
there's so many ways that youcan expand in that.
So, especially within hair loss, you can go into wigs and hair
systems.
I know people that do wigs forTV shows.
You know even things like allthe period dramas and stuff some
quite big, big things.
You know even things like Gameof Thrones.
(21:19):
The wigs on those are epic.
That's extremely kind of niche,and imagine having that as your
job, working for nine months onGame of Thrones.
So there's many different waysthat you can do it.
You can be an entrepreneur, youcan be self-employed, you can
be employed, you can teach.
(21:40):
There's so many differentavenues you can go down and
there's so much more than justwhat we would say is just a
hairdresser.
Right, that's why I love thecareer as a whole.
But we also need to remindourselves that, obviously, hair
loss since covid has been moreprevalent.
It's been far more talked about.
(22:01):
It's extremely common.
It's more common than we mightthink and, as we've already said
, it can have a huge impact onpeople's lives and it is
something that a lot of peoplewant to do something about.
So becoming a hair lossspecialist it's a really good
field to get into.
Fatima Bey (22:19):
I love a lot of what you just said.
So if there's a youth listeningright now who is in the UK, how
could they get into trichology?
Would they just go to learn tobe a hairdresser first and then
take it secondarily, or can theygo straight to trichology?
Kate Holohan (22:36):
I think it really depends on where they want to
come from.
So, like I said, having abackground in hair is great, but
some people get an interestfrom elsewhere.
So it may be they're sufferingfrom hair loss themselves.
They may have a friend orfamily member that had hair loss
and they witnessed the kind ofsupport they were getting.
I was contacted by a patientrecently who has very severe
(23:02):
alopecia and she struggled toget a diagnosis and she
struggled to get help and shepaid a couple of so-called hair
loss experts that weren'tactually certified, qualified
trichologists and she found thatshe was just paying money and
not really getting any answers.
So once she met me she actuallygot a lot more answers and a
(23:27):
lot more actual help.
She is now interested instudying trichology because
that's piqued her interest.
So I would definitely say thatit's a really good idea to find
a certified doctor.
You know proper avenue.
I personally studied with theInstitute of Trichology in
Harley Street and they areabsolutely amazing.
(23:50):
So they are top level education.
But you don't have to have anybackground in hair at all If it
was something you're interestedin.
The first element of theircourse is a six month
introductory course, so you cando that, see how you feel you
don't have to sign up for kindof three years straight away.
Oh, I like that.
You can do the introduction, geta feel for the course, find out
(24:15):
whether it is something thatyou really are interested in and
that you feel that you like thelevel of work.
You can stop there if you feelthat you've learned enough or
you don't like it, or you canthen go on and do kind of year
one, year two, year, three, soit can be quite flexible.
I offer a one day course onlinewhich is aimed at mainly
(24:41):
hairdressers to give them a bitmore of an insight into hair
loss and scalp health, give thema bit more confidence around
talking to clients.
So there are more short coursesthat you can do as well and
smaller bits.
And again, the introduction totrichology could be quite good
for people that are already inthe hair industry, that are
(25:03):
thinking about getting into morehair loss.
But it's just I mean, like Isay, I didn't know until I
started the course how much Ididn't know about the hair and
scalp.
So if you like learning and youlike kind of biology and
scientific element, then I thinkyou would really enjoy it Great
(25:23):
.
Fatima Bey (25:23):
So tell us what are the full services that you offer
and how can people find you?
Kate Holohan (25:31):
So, as I said, I do offer education.
So I do courses online and inperson, which is just one day
where we talk about most commonhair loss, hair conditions and
scalp conditions that you, as acosmetologist or a hairdresser,
may be faced with in the salonhow to recognize them, how to
(25:53):
approach the clients, Becauseoften we don't talk about hair
loss with our clients because wekind of don't have the
confidence or the knowledge.
So we think, oh, we'd betternot say anything because we
don't really know what to say.
So I offer courses for that.
In clinic I do a full clinicalconsultation which I can do over
(26:15):
Zoom.
Obviously, I prefer to do itface-to-face so I can see a
scalp, touch a scalp and I gothrough proper diagnosis
treatment plan.
I offer hair loss treatments,scalp treatments.
So if someone's got a hugeamount of scale on their scalp,
you'd be amazed at how much Ican clear in just one session.
It is literally.
(26:36):
And it's so satisfying as wellbecause the before and afters is
really great.
So I do hair loss treatments,scalp treatments.
I've got a signature scalpfacial treatment which is more
of like a pampering it's almostlike a facial but for your hair
and scalp.
So that's amazing I and then Iobviously still have clients.
(26:59):
I've got clients.
I've been doing the hair for 25years that literally will not
let me leave them, so I do acertain amount of hair myself as
well, and I've also been.
This year.
I've been really honored tohave quite a few guest speaking
roles as well, so I'm going tobe speaking at the World
(27:20):
Trichology Conference in NewYork.
Fatima Bey (27:22):
Oh, congratulations, that's awesome yeah.
Kate Holohan (27:25):
So I'm really excited about that.
Fatima Bey (27:27):
Are're gonna put?
Are you gonna put that on yourwebsite?
Um, I should do, yeah, okay nowthat, now that I made you say
it publicly, you have to put onyour website yes, it's on my
instagram, um, because that'seasier, I tend to do that.
Kate Holohan (27:41):
But yes, I should be putting my public speaking on
my website.
But I've done two kind of.
I did a networking event whereI hosted and I was speaking, and
then I've just done.
In Kent we have a wellnessfestival which lasts the whole
weekend, so I did a talk thereas well on how to achieve
(28:01):
optimum hair and scalp health.
Fatima Bey (28:03):
Nice, so that was really fun.
Kate Holohan (28:04):
It was just so nice to be able to connect with
people, share some tips andtricks and things like that, and
I love helping people as welland I love kind of working to
set people on the right path andeducate them.
So I'm always kind of availableInstagram's, like my main one.
Well, obviously, I have mywebsite as well, but I'm always
(28:26):
open to people messaging merandom questions.
Fatima Bey (28:30):
I can hear your passion and I believe you when
you say that you enjoy helpingpeople.
I think we can hear that, andfor those listening out there
right now who I know when I workwith youth, I think adults
might be surprised at how oftenI hear from youth want to ask
about future career what do youwant to do?
So many of them come from aplace of compassion and they
(28:53):
want to do something meaningful.
Not, yes, they want to makemoney, obviously, but many of
them want to do somethingmeaningful more than just money,
and so I could see why what youdo is meaningful when you're
making people feel betterbecause you are affecting their
mental health, especially cancerpatients, that's.
You know that one gets me rightthere.
But before we go, I want you totalk to the youth of the world
(29:17):
right now and give them anyadvice you want.
Kate Holohan (29:20):
I think the other thing is to just remember that
you don't have to pigeonholeyourself.
So if my career is evolved, Iretrained in trichology.
Fatima Bey (29:31):
I was.
Kate Holohan (29:31):
I think 42.
So even if you do set on onepath and you think to yourself,
well, this is it now, this iswhat I'm going to do, don't be
closed off to otheropportunities or new avenues, or
don't be worried about thingschanging.
And certainly don't worry ifyou choose something and
actually when you do it, youthink this isn't actually for me
(29:54):
, I'm not enjoying it as much asI thought I would, or maybe I
want to go off on a differentpath.
I think, especially these days,we have so much information
available, so much educationavailable and so much connection
.
I mean, look at me and youtalking across the world.
Right, you know, you literallycan't.
Don't limit yourself and think,oh well, I'm only capable of
(30:15):
this, or I've started this now,so I'm stuck with it.
You know, just be open to newopportunities.
Fatima Bey (30:24):
My favorite thing to do is just say yes and then
figure out how to do it later Iagree, try different careers, um
, if you're not sure, go intothe one you think you're going
to like the most, and it is okayif you switch it up.
A lot of people do that forsome reason.
I find that a lot to be true, alot with chefs.
(30:44):
Either people are a chef for awhile and they switch to
something completely different,or they were a nurse or a doctor
and then became a chef.
I don't know what it is aboutmy career.
Kate Holohan (30:53):
When I started hair, you know, my whole thing
was it's a trade, so I'mlearning something useful.
But at the same time, if Ididn't like it, my attitude was
well, even if I only save moneycutting my family's hair, you
know, I'll save money cutting myhusband's hair and my kid's
hair.
That's still a win for me.
(31:14):
And it's the same specificallywith chefs.
I mean, once you've learned tocook, you've got that skill for
life, even if you're not a chefanymore.
You know, what you've learnedgoes with you for life, even if
it just means you can make greatcanapes for your guests, you
know, so you're never educationis never wasted, even if you
(31:36):
don't perceive that you're usingit.
Fatima Bey (31:38):
I think that is one of the most valuable things that
you maybe have ever said inyour life.
Education is still valuable.
You just have to reapply it,and I think a lot of times
people don't recognize that.
Well, kate, it has been awesometalking to you and I hope that
you listeners got a lot out ofthis conversation.
I think there's a lot.
I think there was a lot youcould have gotten out of this
(31:58):
conversation if you want to, and, once again, thank you for
coming on.
Kate Holohan (32:03):
Thank you.
Fatima Bey (32:05):
And now for a mind shifting moment, I want you to
recollect what was spoken abouttoday.
Kate brought out a lot ofreally good points, but they go
far beyond trichology.
Have you accepted or are youaccepting what you've been told?
(32:26):
Are your limits?
Are you only going after whatis presented before you?
Whether you're a teenager oryoung adult anywhere in the
world, or an adult who's alreadyworking or in a career, this
applies to you.
Are you really doing what youwant to do or are you just
accepting what you think youhave to do?
(32:49):
There are many, many, many,many different pathways to
whatever it is you're interestedin.
You don't have to do just onething.
If you take nothing else awayfrom this conversation, I want
you to know that the freedom youwant you actually have.
You just have to go for it.
(33:09):
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to follow and subscribeto MindShift Power Podcast on
any of our worldwide platformsand be a part of the
conversations shaping tomorrow'sworld.
This podcast is just one branchof the MindShift universe.
Explore more at FatimaBaycomand always remember there's
(33:33):
power in shifting your thinking.
See you next week.
Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the world's only
podcast built to empower thenext generation.
I'm your host, fatima Bey theMindShifter, because shaping
tomorrow's world starts withconversations we have today.
Because shaping tomorrow'sworld starts with conversations
we have today.
And hello everyone.
Today we have with us KateHolohan.
(00:30):
She is from Southeast Englandin the UK.
She is the owner of HairTherapy UK and she is a
trichologist.
How are you doing today, kate?
I'm good.
Thank you, nice to see you.
Nice to see you too.
I'm glad to have you here.
So I like to dive right in.
So tell us what is trichology?
Kate Holohan (00:50):
So trichology is all around the science and the
functions of the hair and scalp.
So as a trichologist I can helppeople with hair loss, hair and
scalp problems, issues likepsoriasis, so basically that bit
more than your averagehairdresser or anyone like that.
(01:11):
So we have a lot oftrichologists in the UK.
You may find in the US that thedermatologists might cover a
lot more hair loss issues andhair and scalp.
Oh okay, but it's specificallyin the UK.
Is hair and scalp specialist?
Fatima Bey (01:30):
I like that.
It's a very niche.
It's a very niche area of.
Is it considered cosmetology inthe UK?
Kate Holohan (01:39):
So it's not quite medical, but it's certainly more
than if you were hairdressing.
So it's kind of in between.
So I like to see it as thatbridge in that gap between
cosmetology and medical.
Fatima Bey (01:57):
Okay, so I want to understand trichology a little
bit more.
It's the study of this hair andscalp.
Why is this even necessary?
Kate Holohan (02:07):
So actually surprisingly so, I've actually
been in the hair industry for 25years, Okay, and I've been in
education for 20.
And I only became aware of theprofession of trichology myself
about four years ago oh wow,myself about four years ago.
So I didn't even know thatthere was a specific hair and
scalp expert that you couldrefer people to to help with
(02:31):
things like hair loss and hairhealth.
In the UK we obviously have theNHS, the National Health System
, and we do get a certain amountof help with different health
issues.
Hair loss is considered acosmetic issue, so we don't
really get any help with thingslike alopecia.
(02:52):
On our health system and so it'svery difficult.
If you go and see a GP, theyoften just tell you oh, it's
just stress, it will go away onits own, or I'll use Rogaine or
Regaine or some kind of chemicaland that will kind of fix it.
There's not really anyone apartfrom a trichologist that can
give you an accurate diagnosisand they can give you help and
(03:16):
they can give you an ongoingkind of treatment plan.
And often, especially forpeople with conditions like
psoriasis or eczema, you can getreally, really severe to the
point where they've got tons ofscaling on their scalp and that
can restrict hair growth.
It can be really, reallydifficult for people.
(03:42):
It can affect their mentalhealth.
It can affect their everydayday-to-day life and there's not
really any kind of other help.
So as a trichologist, I cansupport both GPs and doctors,
and also hairdressers, inhelping those people find the
answers that they need.
Fatima Bey (04:02):
Just as an FYI for those listening who don't know
GP is general practitioner.
Kate Holohan (04:06):
Yeah, so doctor, basically.
Fatima Bey (04:08):
Yeah, basically another word for it.
Do you also help cancerpatients?
Kate Holohan (04:12):
Yeah, I can do.
Yeah, so I've also trained inhow to cut and fit wigs so I can
advise people on things likethe type of wig that they might
get and where to source thatfrom, the type of wig that they
might get and where to sourcethat from, and then I can help
just to shape them in, cut them,make them look a little bit
more like they used to look.
So anyone that's facing cancertreatment or chemotherapy, I can
(04:37):
help them with that, advisethem on things like using a cold
cap, perhaps to help preservetheir hair if they're looking to
have chemotherapy done, and Ican help them before, kind of
during and after, their journey.
Fatima Bey (04:53):
So why did you get into once you discovered that
trichology exists?
Why you got into it?
Because you found itinteresting, obviously, but why
do you keep doing it?
Why do you like what you do?
Kate Holohan (05:13):
So I think that there's quite a point in a lot
of hairdressers' lives wherewhen you first learn
hairdressing, you're so kind ofcaught up on it's like when you
learn to drive you can't reallyfocus on driving because you're
like, oh, what gear am I in?
You know, am I indicating orhave I got my hazard lights on?
Who's that person over there?
You're so focused on whatyou're doing.
And it's the same with hair.
When you first learn hair, justlearning how to cut and colour
(05:37):
hair and how to talk to peopleand how to understand what they
really want and how to makepeople happy is quite a lot to
deal with.
But for those that have been inthe industry for quite a while,
I know I certainly got to thatpoint where I would see clients
come in, you know every weekwith hair loss and bald patches,
scalp conditions, hairconditions and not really have
(06:01):
the answers for them.
I couldn't really help them andI didn't even myself really know
how much I didn't know.
So when we learn hair, we getto talk very little about the
hair and scalp, considering it'swhat we work with every day.
And after studying hair andscalp exclusively with the
(06:23):
Institute of Trichology inLondon for two and a half years,
I learned how much I reallydidn't know, oh wow.
So when you become atrichologist you don't have to
have any background in hairwhatsoever.
Some of the people in my classhad a physics degree or they had
completely differentbackgrounds or they had suffered
hair loss themselves.
(06:44):
They had completely differentbackgrounds or they had suffered
hair loss themselves and thathad given them an interest in
hair loss and then spurred themon to want to help people
themselves.
But for me it was getting tothat point in my career in
hairdressing where I was seeingit all the time and I didn't
really have the answers and Iwanted to know more.
I'm kind of like a perpetualstudent, so I never know enough.
(07:09):
I always want to know more,learn more, and it was really
really interesting so what I'vebeen able to do over the last
few years and the impact thatI've been able to have on
people's lives by being able tohelp them is just a complete
another level.
So hairdressing can be reallyrewarding in itself and
(07:31):
education can be reallyrewarding when you're helping
those people gain thatconfidence, learn more and grow.
But to be able to help peoplewith things that literally can
affect their life day to day,their mental health- you know,
it's just another level for me,so it's really rewarding.
Fatima Bey (07:50):
I think a lot of people.
I just want to kind ofreiterate what you were just
talking about with the mentalhealth piece, because I think a
lot of people don't think abouthow physical ailments or what
might seem cosmetic candramatically affect someone's
life.
If you won't go to partiesbecause you know you're starting
to look bald-headed and you,okay, some people throw wigs on
(08:13):
but maybe you don't want to weara wig, or maybe you can't wear
a wig because it bothers yourskin.
I mean, that's a thing too.
So you know, people don'treally think about the fact that
you might not want to getintimate because you'll have to
take your wig off and he's goingto see how bald you are.
Things like that they canaffect your life.
They can really stop you fromdoing things that you really
should be doing.
Kate Holohan (08:34):
And I've spoken to people.
I've had patients where they'vesaid to me their husband's
never even seen their baldpatches.
Their husband, their family,they haven't shared with anyone
the extent of their hair loss.
You know, that can be really,really isolating, but it doesn't
even have to be a big thing.
One of the patients that I had,who was the most affected by
(08:58):
the hair condition, just hadsimple dandruff and yet she said
to me if she hadn't have beenable to get a scalp treatment
done last December to clear awaythe dandruff, she wouldn't have
gone to her Christmas partybecause she was so
self-conscious about flakes inher hair.
Fatima Bey (09:15):
Yeah, and I think that that is something.
It's one of those unspoken, oneof those silent sufferings.
I'm trying to think of a betterword, but that's how I can
think of right now.
It's something that I thinkpeople.
There's other things too, butpeople suffer with in silence
because they're too embarrassedto really talk about.
So I'm glad that you're able tohelp them and people feel
(09:36):
comfortable coming to you.
So why did you want to come onthe show and talk about this
today?
What in the world does thishave to do with teenagers?
Kate Holohan (09:45):
So I just really do like to talk to young people,
especially in different areasof education, so especially with
hairdressing.
When I started my career inhairdressing, there were quite a
few people on my course thatwere literally told oh, you're
not very bright, go and dohairdressing.
(10:05):
And I actually found it.
I mean obviously it's quiteinsulting, but I also actually
found it really not to be true.
And I just I do a lot of kindof talks in the UK as well
because we have, where I am inKent, we have what's called
grammar schools, so they're kindof selective schools.
(10:26):
You have to sit a test to go tothem, so they're expected to
achieve a lot academically.
Now, for me personally, I wason that path at school.
I was told you know, this isyour expected path.
You go and do A-levels and thenyou go to university and then
you get a proper good job.
(10:49):
I actually ended up moving outof home when I was 17 and I had
to work to support myself and Itried to stay to finish my
qualifications.
But I found that trying to workearn a living.
But I found that trying to work, earn a living, live on my own,
support myself and complete afull time academic course was
(11:09):
just way too much for me.
So in my second year ofA-levels I actually ended up
leaving and I was verydetermined that if I was going
to leave my course, that I wasgoing to go and study a trade
and I was going to go and dosomething that could add value
to my life long term, ratherthan just I wasn't going to just
leave and go and work in asupermarket or something like
(11:31):
that.
So I and I was very creativeand I was doing art anyway for
A-level.
So I was really creative and Ialways loved that kind of thing
and I never wanted to sit in anoffice.
I knew that I would be bored totears if I was sat in a desk
job all day at a computer, justkind of working away.
(11:51):
And so for me to be able to dosomething really creative, but
also something that reallydynamic, that was different
every day as soon as I got a jobin a salon, I absolutely loved
it and it was so fun and I feltthat I'd almost kind of fell
into it by accident because asan academically promising
(12:15):
student those kind ofopportunities weren't offered to
me.
They were only offered to thestudents that looked like they
weren't capable of doing what'sseen as a higher qualification.
Now I have still, over the years, gained the same level of
qualification.
So I've earned certificate ineducation teaching degree, and
(12:38):
I've also earned my level fivetrichology qualification as well
.
So I'm almost kind of qualifiedto degree level.
But I follow my own path and Idid it in a different way and I
did it in a way that I enjoyed alot more and that suited me a
lot more.
And yet I'm still highlyqualified, and so I think it's
(13:01):
really important to just to kindof open those avenues to people
.
So if you're interested insomething, I think it's really
unfair to kind of say oh well,academic qualifications are for
the cleverer, more able studentsand vocational qualifications
or practical qualifications arefor those that are not very
(13:23):
bright or for those that are notcapable academically.
Okay, over the years I've beenin education in many different
fields.
I've worked in colleges, I'vetaught mature students, I've
taught young students.
I a hairdresser and also as atrichology clinic owner.
(13:54):
I have to have a multifacetedapproach.
I am my own accountant.
I'm my own PR.
I am my own marketing company.
I also run a podcast.
I host that.
I produce it.
I've sourced my own guests apodcast I host that.
I produce it.
I've sourced my own guests.
I do my own accounts.
Fatima Bey (14:14):
That sounds familiar .
Kate Holohan (14:14):
I do my own ordering, I do my own stock.
You know, you tell me someonewho's got a degree and gone and
worked in an office who has toknow that much about all those
different elements of business.
If anything, I have to besmarter than those people.
So I think it's really unfair tokind of pigeonhole people and
(14:35):
say to them that just becausethey may be academically gifted
or they may be good at maths orEnglish, that a vocational
qualification or learning atrade should be something that
they shouldn't be interested inor that is seen as less than.
I think that's really unfair.
Fatima Bey (14:54):
I completely agree.
Here in the US and it soundslike it's the same in the UK our
youth are often pushed toparticular career paths that
don't always suit them andsometimes vocational, like you
said, or trade you know here,are seen as less than.
But the truth is and I wassaying to you this before we
(15:15):
recorded sometimes it's foolish,and here's an example an auto
mechanic might come out making Idon't know 75 grand once he
finishes he or she finishestheir trade school.
Another type of engineer,because auto mechanics is
engineering.
So another type of engineermight come out making a hundred
(15:36):
grand.
The difference between the twois the auto mechanic might be
making 25 grand less a year thanthe other engineer, but the
other engineer is paying morethan 25 grand a year back in
loans.
So really, who's making money?
And very often we are pushingour kids towards careers because
we think they're the mostprosperous.
But we have to look at thebigger picture and not just
(15:59):
here's your status symbol, andthose status symbols are often a
lie.
They really, really are.
Kate Holohan (16:05):
The thing is like you said.
You know I could have gone touniversity and end up with loads
of student loans because I wentinto hairdressing and I then
wanted to get into educationbecause when you're in a salon,
a lot of the times it's quite,very supportive and it's like a
bit of a family and you haveyour apprentices come in and you
want to support and grow themand teach them as well.
(16:27):
So when I first got intoeducation, Ivan had worked at a
college.
They then supported me and paidfor me to achieve my teaching
qualifications.
So again, I got thosequalifications.
I didn't have to pay anythingfor that, let alone pay back
loans and interest and stuff.
(16:49):
So it was really beneficial forme to go about it in that way.
If I'd have gone to universityto learn how to be a teacher,
I'd probably still be payingthat back now.
But because I got into anorganization that supported me
and supported growth withintheir kind of whole concept of
their culture, they paid for meto do that as part of just so.
(17:14):
I think sometimes you can stillend up following a similar path
, but there's more than one wayto go about anything really
right, yes, yes, of course.
if someone's really creative andthey're not very academic and
they don't like schoolwork, thenof course something like
hairdressing might be reallyenjoyable for them and it might
(17:36):
be really fun.
Hairdressing and cosmetology isone of those industries where
you can't do it unless you loveit, right.
Fatima Bey (17:45):
And they are very, very happy.
Kate Holohan (17:47):
Hairdressing is one of the industries with the
highest job satisfaction Becausewe have to love it.
You know you can't go into asalon in the morning and say to
your client oh, do you mind if Ijust pretend to do your hair
this morning?
I'm not really feeling it today.
Can I just sit there and justpush a couple of buttons and
just not.
You know I'm not going to talkto you because I don't really
(18:09):
feel like it.
Good point, I'm tired today, socan I just do 50%.
You know we have to be on allthe time, we have to be upbeat,
we have to be positive.
So again, that takes a lot.
You know, personally andprofessionally, it actually
takes a lot.
We have to be very consistent,we have to be very reliable.
(18:30):
You can't phone in sick all thetime if you're a hairdresser,
because you'll end up with noclients.
You cancel on those clientsmore than once and they won't
come back.
So there's a lot to it thatpeople, I think, forget.
But of course, for someonewho's more creatively minded,
they could love it it.
But I just think it is a reallygreat career.
(18:54):
But if you are an intelligentperson and you're driven and
you're motivated, they're thekind of people that can really
take it to another level.
Fatima Bey (19:05):
Right, such as entrepreneurship, like you have.
There are many different waysyou can do whatever field we
want to get into.
There's about many differentways you can do whatever field
we want to get into.
There's about a hundreddifferent ways we can do it, and
I love that you bring out thatpoint.
So you already named a few.
I want to ask you this youalready named a few of them, but
what are the other reasons whya young person should get into
(19:27):
this field at all?
Kate Holohan (19:28):
So, like I said, with trichology, I do feel that
having a background inhairdressing can be a real
advantage.
And it's quite funny because Iknow other students who study
trichology who came from ahairdressing background and they
almost felt intimidated by thestudents that were there with
(19:48):
physics degrees and that wereprofessors or medically trained
doctors.
They felt quite intimidated butalthough those people did very
well on their exams, when itcame to actually practically
treating the patients which isbasically the job once you
finish we had the advantage andI actually felt that my
(20:11):
background and my experiencecounted for a lot and it gave me
a really strong advantage.
And one of the girls on mycourse who had a physics degree
was actually petrified to eventouch someone's head, you know,
because she'd never done it,whereas I was really confident
and I could engage with peopleand connect with them.
So trichology is a very nichesubject.
(20:35):
There's not a lot oftrichologists around, but it is
a great area to get into.
You can really really helppeople and make a massive impact
on their lives.
But it's the same with hair aswell.
It's such a fun, interestingjob to get into that it is a
really, really good kind ofavenue to go for a career, but
(20:57):
there's so many ways that youcan expand in that.
So, especially within hair loss, you can go into wigs and hair
systems.
I know people that do wigs forTV shows.
You know even things like allthe period dramas and stuff some
quite big, big things.
You know even things like Gameof Thrones.
(21:19):
The wigs on those are epic.
That's extremely kind of niche,and imagine having that as your
job, working for nine months onGame of Thrones.
So there's many different waysthat you can do it.
You can be an entrepreneur, youcan be self-employed, you can
be employed, you can teach.
(21:40):
There's so many differentavenues you can go down and
there's so much more than justwhat we would say is just a
hairdresser.
Right, that's why I love thecareer as a whole.
But we also need to remindourselves that, obviously, hair
loss since covid has been moreprevalent.
It's been far more talked about.
(22:01):
It's extremely common.
It's more common than we mightthink and, as we've already said
, it can have a huge impact onpeople's lives and it is
something that a lot of peoplewant to do something about.
So becoming a hair lossspecialist it's a really good
field to get into.
Fatima Bey (22:19):
I love a lot of what you just said.
So if there's a youth listeningright now who is in the UK, how
could they get into trichology?
Would they just go to learn tobe a hairdresser first and then
take it secondarily, or can theygo straight to trichology?
Kate Holohan (22:36):
I think it really depends on where they want to
come from.
So, like I said, having abackground in hair is great, but
some people get an interestfrom elsewhere.
So it may be they're sufferingfrom hair loss themselves.
They may have a friend orfamily member that had hair loss
and they witnessed the kind ofsupport they were getting.
I was contacted by a patientrecently who has very severe
(23:02):
alopecia and she struggled toget a diagnosis and she
struggled to get help and shepaid a couple of so-called hair
loss experts that weren'tactually certified, qualified
trichologists and she found thatshe was just paying money and
not really getting any answers.
So once she met me she actuallygot a lot more answers and a
(23:27):
lot more actual help.
She is now interested instudying trichology because
that's piqued her interest.
So I would definitely say thatit's a really good idea to find
a certified doctor.
You know proper avenue.
I personally studied with theInstitute of Trichology in
Harley Street and they areabsolutely amazing.
(23:50):
So they are top level education.
But you don't have to have anybackground in hair at all If it
was something you're interestedin.
The first element of theircourse is a six month
introductory course, so you cando that, see how you feel you
don't have to sign up for kindof three years straight away.
Oh, I like that.
You can do the introduction, geta feel for the course, find out
(24:15):
whether it is something thatyou really are interested in and
that you feel that you like thelevel of work.
You can stop there if you feelthat you've learned enough or
you don't like it, or you canthen go on and do kind of year
one, year two, year, three, soit can be quite flexible.
I offer a one day course onlinewhich is aimed at mainly
(24:41):
hairdressers to give them a bitmore of an insight into hair
loss and scalp health, give thema bit more confidence around
talking to clients.
So there are more short coursesthat you can do as well and
smaller bits.
And again, the introduction totrichology could be quite good
for people that are already inthe hair industry, that are
(25:03):
thinking about getting into morehair loss.
But it's just I mean, like Isay, I didn't know until I
started the course how much Ididn't know about the hair and
scalp.
So if you like learning and youlike kind of biology and
scientific element, then I thinkyou would really enjoy it Great
(25:23):
.
Fatima Bey (25:23):
So tell us what are the full services that you offer
and how can people find you?
Kate Holohan (25:31):
So, as I said, I do offer education.
So I do courses online and inperson, which is just one day
where we talk about most commonhair loss, hair conditions and
scalp conditions that you, as acosmetologist or a hairdresser,
may be faced with in the salonhow to recognize them, how to
(25:53):
approach the clients, Becauseoften we don't talk about hair
loss with our clients because wekind of don't have the
confidence or the knowledge.
So we think, oh, we'd betternot say anything because we
don't really know what to say.
So I offer courses for that.
In clinic I do a full clinicalconsultation which I can do over
(26:15):
Zoom.
Obviously, I prefer to do itface-to-face so I can see a
scalp, touch a scalp and I gothrough proper diagnosis
treatment plan.
I offer hair loss treatments,scalp treatments.
So if someone's got a hugeamount of scale on their scalp,
you'd be amazed at how much Ican clear in just one session.
It is literally.
(26:36):
And it's so satisfying as wellbecause the before and afters is
really great.
So I do hair loss treatments,scalp treatments.
I've got a signature scalpfacial treatment which is more
of like a pampering it's almostlike a facial but for your hair
and scalp.
So that's amazing I and then Iobviously still have clients.
(26:59):
I've got clients.
I've been doing the hair for 25years that literally will not
let me leave them, so I do acertain amount of hair myself as
well, and I've also been.
This year.
I've been really honored tohave quite a few guest speaking
roles as well, so I'm going tobe speaking at the World
(27:20):
Trichology Conference in NewYork.
Fatima Bey (27:22):
Oh, congratulations, that's awesome yeah.
Kate Holohan (27:25):
So I'm really excited about that.
Fatima Bey (27:27):
Are're gonna put?
Are you gonna put that on yourwebsite?
Um, I should do, yeah, okay nowthat, now that I made you say
it publicly, you have to put onyour website yes, it's on my
instagram, um, because that'seasier, I tend to do that.
Kate Holohan (27:41):
But yes, I should be putting my public speaking on
my website.
But I've done two kind of.
I did a networking event whereI hosted and I was speaking, and
then I've just done.
In Kent we have a wellnessfestival which lasts the whole
weekend, so I did a talk thereas well on how to achieve
(28:01):
optimum hair and scalp health.
Fatima Bey (28:03):
Nice, so that was really fun.
Kate Holohan (28:04):
It was just so nice to be able to connect with
people, share some tips andtricks and things like that, and
I love helping people as welland I love kind of working to
set people on the right path andeducate them.
So I'm always kind of availableInstagram's, like my main one.
Well, obviously, I have mywebsite as well, but I'm always
(28:26):
open to people messaging merandom questions.
Fatima Bey (28:30):
I can hear your passion and I believe you when
you say that you enjoy helpingpeople.
I think we can hear that, andfor those listening out there
right now who I know when I workwith youth, I think adults
might be surprised at how oftenI hear from youth want to ask
about future career what do youwant to do?
So many of them come from aplace of compassion and they
(28:53):
want to do something meaningful.
Not, yes, they want to makemoney, obviously, but many of
them want to do somethingmeaningful more than just money,
and so I could see why what youdo is meaningful when you're
making people feel betterbecause you are affecting their
mental health, especially cancerpatients, that's.
You know that one gets me rightthere.
But before we go, I want you totalk to the youth of the world
(29:17):
right now and give them anyadvice you want.
Kate Holohan (29:20):
I think the other thing is to just remember that
you don't have to pigeonholeyourself.
So if my career is evolved, Iretrained in trichology.
Fatima Bey (29:31):
I was.
Kate Holohan (29:31):
I think 42.
So even if you do set on onepath and you think to yourself,
well, this is it now, this iswhat I'm going to do, don't be
closed off to otheropportunities or new avenues, or
don't be worried about thingschanging.
And certainly don't worry ifyou choose something and
actually when you do it, youthink this isn't actually for me
(29:54):
, I'm not enjoying it as much asI thought I would, or maybe I
want to go off on a differentpath.
I think, especially these days,we have so much information
available, so much educationavailable and so much connection
.
I mean, look at me and youtalking across the world.
Right, you know, you literallycan't.
Don't limit yourself and think,oh well, I'm only capable of
(30:15):
this, or I've started this now,so I'm stuck with it.
You know, just be open to newopportunities.
Fatima Bey (30:24):
My favorite thing to do is just say yes and then
figure out how to do it later Iagree, try different careers, um
, if you're not sure, go intothe one you think you're going
to like the most, and it is okayif you switch it up.
A lot of people do that forsome reason.
I find that a lot to be true, alot with chefs.
(30:44):
Either people are a chef for awhile and they switch to
something completely different,or they were a nurse or a doctor
and then became a chef.
I don't know what it is aboutmy career.
Kate Holohan (30:53):
When I started hair, you know, my whole thing
was it's a trade, so I'mlearning something useful.
But at the same time, if Ididn't like it, my attitude was
well, even if I only save moneycutting my family's hair, you
know, I'll save money cutting myhusband's hair and my kid's
hair.
That's still a win for me.
(31:14):
And it's the same specificallywith chefs.
I mean, once you've learned tocook, you've got that skill for
life, even if you're not a chefanymore.
You know, what you've learnedgoes with you for life, even if
it just means you can make greatcanapes for your guests, you
know, so you're never educationis never wasted, even if you
(31:36):
don't perceive that you're usingit.
Fatima Bey (31:38):
I think that is one of the most valuable things that
you maybe have ever said inyour life.
Education is still valuable.
You just have to reapply it,and I think a lot of times
people don't recognize that.
Well, kate, it has been awesometalking to you and I hope that
you listeners got a lot out ofthis conversation.
I think there's a lot.
I think there was a lot youcould have gotten out of this
(31:58):
conversation if you want to, and, once again, thank you for
coming on.
Kate Holohan (32:03):
Thank you.
Fatima Bey (32:05):
And now for a mind shifting moment, I want you to
recollect what was spoken abouttoday.
Kate brought out a lot ofreally good points, but they go
far beyond trichology.
Have you accepted or are youaccepting what you've been told?
(32:26):
Are your limits?
Are you only going after whatis presented before you?
Whether you're a teenager oryoung adult anywhere in the
world, or an adult who's alreadyworking or in a career, this
applies to you.
Are you really doing what youwant to do or are you just
accepting what you think youhave to do?
(32:49):
There are many, many, many,many different pathways to
whatever it is you're interestedin.
You don't have to do just onething.
If you take nothing else awayfrom this conversation, I want
you to know that the freedom youwant you actually have.
You just have to go for it.
(33:09):
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to follow and subscribeto MindShift Power Podcast on
any of our worldwide platformsand be a part of the
conversations shaping tomorrow'sworld.
This podcast is just one branchof the MindShift universe.
Explore more at FatimaBaycomand always remember there's
(33:33):
power in shifting your thinking.
See you next week.
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