July 16, 2025 • 28 mins
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What if the greatest obstacle to your success isn't your strategy, but the stories you tell yourself? Matthew Stafford, managing partner at Build Grow Scale, reveals the profound connection between emotional intelligence and entrepreneurial achievement in this deeply personal conversation.
Despite building a successful commercial concrete company and later an e-commerce business that helped over 1,000 store owners thrive, Matthew spent decades sabotaging his own success due to unresolved childhood trauma. It wasn't until his late 40s that he discovered how his violent upbringing created destructive internal narratives that limited his potential despite outward achievements.
Matthew pulls back the curtain on the realities of e-commerce entrepreneurship, dispelling the myth of the "laptop lifestyle" while affirming it remains the most accessible business opportunity of our time. His experiences coaching entrepreneurs to multimillion-dollar success reveal surprising insights: loving the problem-solving process matters more than loving what you sell, AI tools can serve as "the world's smartest assistant" when used properly, and vulnerability in seeking mentorship accelerates growth.
The conversation takes an inspiring turn as Matthew shares his vision to create a center helping children develop healthy self-narratives early in life. Having witnessed how youth can unlearn negative patterns faster than adults with less "confirmation bias," he's committed to transforming pain into purpose by preventing others from waiting decades to overcome limiting beliefs.
Whether you're considering an e-commerce venture, struggling with self-sabotage in your current business, or seeking to understand how childhood experiences shape adult success, this episode offers transformative insights on building resilience through failure and finding purpose through pain.
Share what mind-shifted for you during this episode by visiting FatimaBey.com and sending a message through the podcast page. Your journey of transformation begins with recognizing that the only true failure is giving up.
To learn more about Matthew Stafford or have a conversation, please visit:
https://buildgrowscale.com/book-a-call
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatima Bey (00:04):
This is MindShift Power Podcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, Fatima Bey, theMindShifter, and welcome
everyone.
Today we have with us MatthewStafford and he is out of
(00:27):
Florida in the United States.
He is the managing partner atBuild Grow Scale and he has a
personal story of becoming that.
I'll let him tell you.
So how are you doing today,Matthew?
Matthew Stafford (00:41):
Doing.
Great Thanks for having me.
Fatima Bey (00:43):
Thank you for coming on Now.
Briefly tell us your backgroundand some of the things you've
accomplished.
Matthew Stafford (00:50):
Yeah, so I've been an entrepreneur since I
graduated college.
I actually purchased thebusiness of the gentleman that I
was working for right out ofschool and built that into a
commercial concrete company thathad about 25 employees.
We were on the road about 200days a year traveling all over
(01:13):
the country pouring concrete forbig box stores like Walmart,
Menards, Lowe's, Home Depot, Acouple of other large chains, A
(01:36):
couple of other large chains andI did that for about 23 years
and kind of stumbled into thee-commerce world through an
event that I went to that wasput on e-commerce alone, and in
that period we've worked as astore owner.
I've sold millions about $15million for the t-shirts in the
first three years that I did itand then I started helping other
(01:57):
people optimize their sites,and that's the business that I
own now is Build, Grow, Scale,and we've worked for Discovery
Channel, Scientific America,Mark Cuban Companies and other
ones like that.
But what I really enjoy iswe've helped over a thousand
store owners actually createsuccessful e-commerce stores,
(02:20):
Some of them I think 27 we're atright now that have hit the $10
million mark and about 150 or160 that have hit the million
dollar mark.
Fatima Bey (02:29):
That's awesome.
So what you do at Build GrowthScale right now is you help
entrepreneurs or existingcompanies with e-commerce,
correct?
Matthew Stafford (02:41):
Yes, learn how to increase their conversion so
that they can have a profitablestore and build their dreams.
Yes, yep, learn how to uhincrease their conversion so
that they can have a profitablestore and build their dreams.
Fatima Bey (02:47):
Yes, yes, and that's important to note because,
again, this shows for teenagers.
Just because a company says wemade $3 million last year, they
may have spent four.
It doesn't mean they wereprofitable.
Matthew Stafford (03:00):
Yes, exactly.
Fatima Bey (03:01):
Uh, so tell us, why did you personally for you?
Why did you get intoentrepreneurship?
Matthew Stafford (03:09):
Yeah, I think my answer today is different
than it would have been if youasked me 10 years ago.
10 years ago, I've always beendriven and I thought the reason
was, you know, I just wanted tobe successful.
And I thought the reason was,you know, I just wanted to be
successful.
And what I realized in the lastfive or six years I've built a
(03:30):
whole lot of successfulcompanies and never felt
successful.
And so I still felt broken,that I would build something and
get it working very well andthen find a way to sabotage it
or get rid of it because of thefact that, unconsciously, I
(03:51):
didn't think I was worthy of it.
Fatima Bey (03:54):
I understand that, that self-sabotage.
That used to be me too, and Iget that.
I really really get that.
Matthew Stafford (04:02):
I think a lot of entrepreneurs go through that
, because it does seem to be afairly familiar cycle of you
know.
The first couple of ones thatyou do aren't typically when you
hit the one that sticks and Ithink a lot of that has to do
with being self-employed isreally it's a inner game,
(04:24):
because you're always lookingfor ways.
It's always teaching you whereyou're not showing up, how to
get better, what you have to doto be good enough to compete in
business, and in order to dothat from a healthy perspective,
it takes a little bit ofpractice.
Yeah, I think that it requirespractice and mistakes.
(04:47):
If all I told you about werethe successes, you would think
that that's all it took in orderto be successful, but I find
that the more I talk about themistakes, there's actually a lot
more learning lessons in those,and every entrepreneur will go
through them at some point intheir journey lessons in those,
and every entrepreneur will gothrough them at some point in
(05:07):
their journey.
Fatima Bey (05:12):
Absolutely so.
You said you got into itbecause you had feelings of
unworthiness and that hinderedyou early on.
Matthew Stafford (05:16):
Yes, yeah, yes .
Fatima Bey (05:18):
Where did the difference happen?
Matthew Stafford (05:29):
um, I, I was at an emotional intelligence uh
event where they had you therefor a thursday, friday, saturday
, three weekends in a row andthey took us through an
experience where we had to actout our father and mother and,
um, just to be vulnerable, Igrew up in a very violent
household.
My father was extremely abusiveto the children and my mom, and
so I always thought in my mindthe reason why I struggled with
(05:53):
those feelings and relationshipswas because my parents said I
love you, but then we got beat,and so I thought I just had this
weird view of love.
And when I went through thisemotional intelligent weekend
and we had to act out ourparents, I acted out.
My father first acted angry andpretended like I was slapping
(06:14):
the person, and then, when itgot to having to act out my mom,
I actually turned around andfaced the wall that was right
behind me and I had aconversation that was it was the
aha moment for me.
I was like, oh, that's, this isweird.
My mom never hit me.
And then I said, oh, and my momnever played with me and my mom
(06:36):
never took me anywhere my momnever.
And I realized right at thatmoment that the reason I
struggled and felt that way wasbecause I had never developed a
healthy relationship with my mom.
Fatima Bey (06:49):
And it took you a long time to recognize that.
Matthew Stafford (06:52):
Yeah, I was in my late 40s, so it was
literally, and it's helped medetermine what my legacy, or
what my purpose is, is to helpother children not have to wait
until they're in their 40s, orthree, four decades into their
journey to figure out that thestories that we tell in our
heads a lot of times can be veryunhealthy and they're just not
(07:15):
true.
Fatima Bey (07:15):
It's a matter of addressing them and just
unlearning what we used as acoping mechanism to be safe when
we were young, copingmechanisms as a coping mechanism
to be safe when we were young,coping mechanisms those can be
good or bad, depending on whatyou're talking about yeah, and
at what stage of life you're in?
Matthew Stafford (07:34):
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't say that
they're all healthy.
Fatima Bey (07:37):
No, but sometimes they stick with you until you're
old, or you work with them fora season until you realize
they're unhealthy and dosomething else.
You know, everybody's story isa little bit different, but I'm
going to ask you this becausethis is a part of the
conversation as well.
We're going to come back aroundto what we were just talking
about a little bit, but firsttell us what is e-commerce?
Matthew Stafford (08:00):
Yeah, e-commerce is essentially a
website that has a shopping cartand items that you can buy, so
it's a way for you to selleither information or physical
products online and then make aliving from it.
Fatima Bey (08:16):
So an online store kind of yeah, Anything you're
selling online, you have awebsite for it.
So why should someone youngbecome an entrepreneur in
e-commerce today?
Matthew Stafford (08:29):
Well, I honestly feel like I have the
opportunity to choose, to dowhatever I want, and I choose
e-commerce.
Every day, I get up excited.
It is constantly changing andevolving, constantly changing
and evolving, and I feel like,uh, it's the very best time in
the world to be in business,because you can literally open a
(08:50):
store and serve a worldwidemarket uh, overnight and uh,
with, with the right trainingand the right work ethic, uh,
I've witnessed people havemeteoric success.
In fact, I I work with, so farto date, my most successful
(09:10):
client, and he's 31 years oldnow and his company will do
about $70 million this year.
And four years ago he wassleeping on a mattress in
Montreal.
Fatima Bey (09:22):
I love stories like that.
Now I'm going to go back aroundto, like I said, weave this
into what we're talking aboutwith e-commerce.
So if you become an e-commerceperson, you have your own online
store, which really anybody cando these days, and anybody
really can be successful with it.
What are the emotional reasonsthat might cause someone to not
(09:45):
succeed with it?
Matthew Stafford (09:47):
Well, one could be a false expectation of
looking on social media andseeing the highlight reel of
people that are claiming thatthey work four hours a week and
have a laptop and can go allover the world.
I've had a lot of people getinto it, thinking that and
they're sadly disappointed thatjust being in business for
(10:11):
yourself requires that you showup and, most of the time, work
much harder than your employeesever will even imagine doing.
And so I never try to paint thepretty picture because I don't
think that that sets the properexpectation.
You can certainly do very well,but you're not going to do that
, competing with the people whoare working very hard and
(10:36):
becoming hyper successful thatway.
Fatima Bey (10:38):
Right.
Can you think of some emotionalreasons why someone would be
successful in e-commerce reasonswhy someone would be successful
in e-commerce.
Matthew Stafford (10:44):
Um, yeah, they believe in themselves and that
they uh have the attitude that,uh, they're going to make
mistakes, they're going to falldown and they get back up and do
it again and again until theyget better.
I always tell everybody, whenyou first start, you're going to
suck and then you'll probablythink it's not working.
(11:05):
Most people give up just beforeit actually becomes successful
because they haven't put enoughgrunt work into it to actually
get good enough that people wantto give them money for what
they're doing Right.
Fatima Bey (11:19):
You have to just kind of fall down a couple of
times and get back up to realizewhich way to walk.
Matthew Stafford (11:26):
Yeah, I can tell you that I have not ever,
in the thousand store ownersthat we've worked with, I've
never had one tell me that theynever had an issue or that they
never thought that they were,you know, a week from failing or
all of these different thingsthat have happened during their
journey, until they got to thepoint where their business was
(11:46):
sustainable and it was, you know, able to provide for them to
build their own dream, yes, so Ialready asked you why someone
should start an e-commercebusiness, and completely agree
with you the freedom of runningyour own business is great.
Fatima Bey (12:01):
The drawback is you don't have consistent income,
but can that change?
Can they create an e-commercebusiness that does eventually
give them consistent income?
Matthew Stafford (12:18):
give them consistent income.
100%.
Yeah, I 100% believe that, andI mean the reason why you're in
business is to make money.
Profit's not a dirty word, andif you can't make money at being
in business, then I also saythat it's cool to be an
entrepreneur too.
Not everybody's got the makeupto be an entrepreneur, but you
can work inside of someoneelse's system, where you'll
(12:38):
thrive.
I have a bunch of people thatwere store owners didn't enjoy
the 30 things that they had todo.
We now run an agency that helpspeople optimize their
e-commerce store.
So the thing that they werereally good at.
We have a bunch of clients andthey can help them with that one
thing that they love doingevery day.
We have a bunch of clients andthey can help them with that one
thing that they love doingevery day, and they don't have
to run an entire business, butthey can just be very good at
(13:00):
what they do, or what they enjoydoing?
Fatima Bey (13:03):
How should someone, a youth who says you know what,
maybe I should try an e-commercestore?
How should they go about?
Matthew Stafford (13:14):
choosing what their thing is, that they're
selling.
I don't think that you have tolove what you sell.
I just think you have to lovethe process of figuring things
out, being a problem solver andbeing willing to go to show up
every day and work.
Fatima Bey (13:31):
That's really what I think it's going to take to be
successful.
I think loving what you sell ishelpful, but I totally agree
with what you're saying aboutloving the process, because you
can love what you sell but hatethe process, and that'll that'll
ruin everything for you too.
Matthew Stafford (13:42):
Yeah, In fact, my my most successful client
ever that I was talking aboutearlier.
Um, he had been selling theproducts that he sells for two
years, before he had ever evenridden in a truck that used
those products, so he hadalready, I think at that point
he was close to $14 million insales and had never even
(14:04):
experienced what he sold.
Fatima Bey (14:06):
So if someone wants to get into, let's say I am 17
and I want to get intoe-commerce and I like baseball
caps.
I got a whole wall full of caps.
I love caps.
I want to get into e-commerceand I like baseball caps.
I got a whole wall full of caps.
I love caps.
I want to sell baseball caps,but I want to do mine a little
bit different.
Whatever that difference is,how do I start?
Matthew Stafford (14:27):
There's a lot of free resources.
I really think that I agreewith Tony Robbins it's not how
many resources you have, it'show resourceful you are.
And YouTube, our blog, all ofthe things like.
We don't really work too muchwith startups.
We work with people thatalready have an established
business and increase it andgrow it.
(14:49):
But we put out all kinds ofinformation for people just
starting so that they can buildwith a solid foundation right
from the very beginning,understanding the optimization
principles, so that eventuallythey can grow the store to the
point where we could work withthem.
So there's lots of freeresources.
There's YouTube, with the LLMslike ChatGPT and Google's Gemini
(15:15):
.
There's zero reason why youcan't have the resources if
you're resourceful.
Fatima Bey (15:23):
Google AI Studio is something I'm very and, claude,
and I actually like Copilot too.
There's a lot of different AIs.
I use ChatGPT a little bit lessactually, but there's a lot of
different AIs out there thatChatGPT a little bit less
actually, but there's a lot ofdifferent AIs out there that are
just phenomenal at helping you,and all of them-.
Matthew Stafford (15:40):
They're literally the world's smartest
assistant.
They literally are, if you lookat them to do the work for you,
then you're probably gonna notget great results.
But if you treat it as anadvisor or like a coach or a
mentor and you tell it theresult that you're looking for,
it will help you, and it's.
(16:01):
We use it every day.
Fatima Bey (16:02):
I'm a living witness to that.
It has helped me a lot.
Matthew Stafford (16:06):
I definitely can.
I've watched it with go ahead.
Fatima Bey (16:09):
Go ahead.
Matthew Stafford (16:11):
I was going to say.
I've watched it with several ofour very successful store
owners and it doesn'tnecessarily they're not using it
to eliminate people.
They're using it to make thepeople that they have a lot more
quality output and a lot moreresourceful.
Fatima Bey (16:30):
So let me ask you this I'm 17.
I love my caps and I juststarted my online store called
Caps and Thangs and nobody'sbuying and it's failing and I
put all this money into it, evenif it's drop ship.
Okay, maybe I put some moneyinto it, but what do you do when
(16:51):
it fails?
When you start your businessand it doesn't go as planned,
what do you do it?
Matthew Stafford (16:57):
fails.
When you start your businessand it doesn't go as planned,
what do you do?
I'm going to say plan on that,plan on it not going as planned.
Again, like we were talkingabout a little bit ago, when you
first start, you're not goingto be good at it and you have to
remember you're competing withother people who have been doing
it for a while, and so there'sa lot of examples of how to do
(17:17):
it correctly.
And if you're willing to justkeep trying the people who just
keep trying, they always make it.
They just never fail.
If that's not the option goingin, that you'll figure it out.
Whatever it takes, I believethat you can't fail.
The only way you can fail is ifyou quit.
Right, you got to stop trying.
Fatima Bey (17:35):
That the only way you can fail is if you quit.
Right, you got to stop trying.
That's the only way you canfail.
So when someone is feeling likea failure because that just
doesn't go with the territory,everything's not going to work
the first time, does thatdiminish who they are as a
person?
Matthew Stafford (17:51):
No, absolutely not.
I truly believe that the storiesthat we tell have a lot to do
with when we were growing up asto whether we feel like we're
good enough or if we're capable.
And, to be honest, even when Iwasn't failing I was doing very
well in business I still feltlike that, and that has always
(18:15):
hindered the success of thebusiness that I was running
until I addressed those issuesfirst.
So if you are trying and tryingand trying, it's not working,
there's typically somebody whocould give you some advice or
who could walk you through somethings that would help you with
that, and so what it reallyrequires is for you to be
(18:38):
willing to be vulnerable andexpose yourself and say, hey,
this is what I'm thinking, thisis what I'm trying, it's not
working.
And I've never not been able tofind a mentor that wanted or
that didn't want to share whatthey did to be successful.
We understand the journey andhow hard it is, and when someone
(19:00):
reaches out and asks for help,I do all kinds of calls like
that and try to provide value inthe attempt to get them to the
next step.
Fatima Bey (19:12):
Now.
There's only one way of doingeverything to be successful in
e-commerce right step Nowthere's only one way of doing
everything to be successful ine-commerce, right?
Matthew Stafford (19:18):
No, yeah, I mean really, when you think
about it, every single thingthat you look at, that you touch
, that you interact with, it wassold by someone, it was built
by someone, so it's endless.
It always amazes me to see howpeople make their money and what
they sell and what they do andtheir story behind it.
A lot of times, your story ofthe failures is going to propel
(19:40):
you to the success of thebusiness, because people can
relate to the failure more thanthey can relate to the success.
Fatima Bey (19:49):
Oh, that's a really good way to word it and I
completely agree.
So here's to me the juiciestpart of the conversation Tell me
, share with the audience whatyou were telling me about your
future plans.
Matthew Stafford (20:03):
Yeah.
So just because of thechildhood that I grew up with
and the difficulty that itcaused me in the first four
decades of my life the firstfour decades of my life I really
have a deep sense of gratitudefor being able to figure out
those internal stories, and mygoal is to build a center where
(20:26):
I can help children like bigbrothers, big sisters, maybe
underserved people or ones thatdon't have the resources to get
the help, to learn sooner how tocorrect those stories and have
a healthy self-esteem early onin life so that they can do
better for the world, and Ithink that there'll be a huge
(20:47):
ripple effect from that.
Fatima Bey (20:51):
So how do you plan on doing that?
Matthew Stafford (20:53):
That's a very good question.
I'm still in the process offiguring that out myself, but I
do know that it will be a placewhere they can come and learn
how to develop a healthy storyabout themselves.
I coach other entrepreneurs andso I've helped take them from
(21:15):
the mindset where they'refailing to the mindset where
they're thriving, and I thinkthat our youth can learn or
unlearn much faster than we doas adults, because I had 40
years of confirmation bias ofbelieving those stories, and so
for me it's taken five years ofreally deep work to unwind it,
(21:37):
where the children that I'veworked with can do it so much
faster because they have a yearor two of confirmation bias and
(22:03):
their brains are much easier toadopt a new belief, and I say
that because that used to be oneof my big hangups and I would
be so much further along in lifehad I really truly embraced
that earlier on.
Fatima Bey (22:15):
There's a lot of reasons why I ended up that way.
Matthew Stafford (22:17):
Yeah, same for me.
My pattern, because of thetrauma that I dealt with when I
was younger, was I'm the onlysafe place for me Exactly safe
place for me.
So when things started workingreally good, I would literally
push people away because itdidn't feel safe when they got
(22:38):
close and that's hurt my successin a lot of different ways.
In relationships, I think ourrelationship with ourselves is a
mirror.
How our relationship is withmoney, was with other people is
with our physical health, and soas you get healthier mentally,
your relationships and all thoseother areas work better and
(22:58):
you'll be successful a lotfaster.
Whatever success means to you,I don't think success just means
you make a bunch of money,because I have a lot of friends
who make a lot of money andthey're very unhappy and I
wouldn't want their success.
Fatima Bey (23:11):
Right, that's not really success.
So, with this vision that youhave, if people have ideas for
you on how they can help, canthey contact you?
Matthew Stafford (23:26):
I would believe that I went through an
experience probably a year agonow.
I was at a conference and theguy asked the question.
He said I've always thought ofmyself as being very smart and
successful.
He goes.
But then I started asking, or Istarted looking at other people
are way more successful than me.
(23:47):
He said what if I change thatmindset to?
What if I wasn't smart?
Then all of a sudden, noweverybody's ideas.
I'm open to other people'sideas and since I've done that,
I've had a lot of people havereally good ideas that they
probably shared with me lots oftimes that I wasn't even aware
of when I thought I was smart,and so I believe that lots of
(24:11):
people will be able to give megood ideas to help make this
come to fruition a lot soonerand be more impactful.
Fatima Bey (24:19):
Yes.
So I'm going to say tolisteners right now if you have
ideas you heard his desire andhis idea and his, his idea If
you have a way that you can helphim and I do mean anything at
all, it could be you have anexpertise in a particular area.
You could loan your expertiseto him, it could be money, it
(24:43):
could be things If you have anyway that you think you could
help him his website will be inthe show notes contact him and
have a conversation.
I love to support people thatare actually trying to do
something for our youth thathelps them in a really deep and
genuine way.
So I'm hoping that you know thewhole world is listening right
now and can see what they can do.
Matthew Stafford (25:03):
I was just going to say yeah, I definitely
feel like we're put here on theearth to make it better for the
next generation and have animpact, and we typically do that
from pain to purpose.
So the pain that we've wentthrough and endured and learned
how to navigate, we can helpother people not have to go
(25:25):
through the same thing.
Fatima Bey (25:27):
One of the worst feelings is feeling like you're
alone and you're the only onewho's gone through and suffered
through what you've gone through, and that is never, ever, ever,
ever, actually true.
Matthew Stafford (25:37):
The problem is not enough of us are opening up
.
I think social media promotesthat too, just from the
standpoint of, you know, theyouth is so used to seeing
everybody else's highlight reel,but yet they still feel the
inadequacies and their flaws.
And so they're comparing theirworst self with everybody else's
(25:59):
best self and mostly fake self,yeah, and it just accentuates
where they feel like they'refailing, when truly they're not.
Fatima Bey (26:09):
I agree.
So before we go, I want you tospeak to the youth of the world.
What advice do you have forthem today?
Matthew Stafford (26:19):
I genuinely think you're our future and so
ask questions of people who havelived longer.
I know when I was that age, Iwish I would have done that more
, because I did.
I had the mentality of you know, I can figure it out myself.
And the truth of the matter isI've always figured out things
(26:40):
better when I collaborate andhad more impact when I didn't
try to do it on my own.
Fatima Bey (26:45):
So tell the audience where can they find you.
Matthew Stafford (26:49):
Yeah, my website is buildgrowthscalecom
and my email is matt atbuildgrowthscalecom.
Feel free to reach out by emailif you think I could support
you.
I'd be happy to and lookforward to, you know, helping
some of the listeners.
Fatima Bey (27:05):
Well, Matthew, thank you once again for coming on.
Matthew Stafford (27:08):
Thanks for having me.
Fatima Bey (27:18):
And now for a mind-shifting moment.
Today I'm going to do somethinga little bit different.
Instead of me making astatement at the end of the
episode to help shift somethinking, I want you to mind
shift me.
I want you to tell me whatyou're thinking.
What did you get out of thisepisode?
(27:39):
Was there a moment that reallyhit a spot for you?
Are you thinking about becomingan entrepreneur?
And this kind of pushed you alittle bit more?
What did you get most out ofeverything that Matthew said?
He said a lot.
I want you to go toFatimaBaycom.
Go to the podcast page and sendme a message.
(28:01):
What mind shift happened foryou, or how can you shift my
thinking about this podcast?
Go to FatimaBaycom.
Go to the podcast page.
Thank you, you've beenlistening to MindShift Power
Podcast.
(28:22):
For complete show notes on thisepisode and to join our global
movement, find us atFatimaBaycom.
Until next time, alwaysremember there's power in
shifting your thinking.
This is MindShift Power Podcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, Fatima Bey, theMindShifter, and welcome
everyone.
Today we have with us MatthewStafford and he is out of
(00:27):
Florida in the United States.
He is the managing partner atBuild Grow Scale and he has a
personal story of becoming that.
I'll let him tell you.
So how are you doing today,Matthew?
Matthew Stafford (00:41):
Doing.
Great Thanks for having me.
Fatima Bey (00:43):
Thank you for coming on Now.
Briefly tell us your backgroundand some of the things you've
accomplished.
Matthew Stafford (00:50):
Yeah, so I've been an entrepreneur since I
graduated college.
I actually purchased thebusiness of the gentleman that I
was working for right out ofschool and built that into a
commercial concrete company thathad about 25 employees.
We were on the road about 200days a year traveling all over
(01:13):
the country pouring concrete forbig box stores like Walmart,
Menards, Lowe's, Home Depot, Acouple of other large chains, A
(01:36):
couple of other large chains andI did that for about 23 years
and kind of stumbled into thee-commerce world through an
event that I went to that wasput on e-commerce alone, and in
that period we've worked as astore owner.
I've sold millions about $15million for the t-shirts in the
first three years that I did itand then I started helping other
(01:57):
people optimize their sites,and that's the business that I
own now is Build, Grow, Scale,and we've worked for Discovery
Channel, Scientific America,Mark Cuban Companies and other
ones like that.
But what I really enjoy iswe've helped over a thousand
store owners actually createsuccessful e-commerce stores,
(02:20):
Some of them I think 27 we're atright now that have hit the $10
million mark and about 150 or160 that have hit the million
dollar mark.
Fatima Bey (02:29):
That's awesome.
So what you do at Build GrowthScale right now is you help
entrepreneurs or existingcompanies with e-commerce,
correct?
Matthew Stafford (02:41):
Yes, learn how to increase their conversion so
that they can have a profitablestore and build their dreams.
Yes, yep, learn how to uhincrease their conversion so
that they can have a profitablestore and build their dreams.
Fatima Bey (02:47):
Yes, yes, and that's important to note because,
again, this shows for teenagers.
Just because a company says wemade $3 million last year, they
may have spent four.
It doesn't mean they wereprofitable.
Matthew Stafford (03:00):
Yes, exactly.
Fatima Bey (03:01):
Uh, so tell us, why did you personally for you?
Why did you get intoentrepreneurship?
Matthew Stafford (03:09):
Yeah, I think my answer today is different
than it would have been if youasked me 10 years ago.
10 years ago, I've always beendriven and I thought the reason
was, you know, I just wanted tobe successful.
And I thought the reason was,you know, I just wanted to be
successful.
And what I realized in the lastfive or six years I've built a
(03:30):
whole lot of successfulcompanies and never felt
successful.
And so I still felt broken,that I would build something and
get it working very well andthen find a way to sabotage it
or get rid of it because of thefact that, unconsciously, I
(03:51):
didn't think I was worthy of it.
Fatima Bey (03:54):
I understand that, that self-sabotage.
That used to be me too, and Iget that.
I really really get that.
Matthew Stafford (04:02):
I think a lot of entrepreneurs go through that
, because it does seem to be afairly familiar cycle of you
know.
The first couple of ones thatyou do aren't typically when you
hit the one that sticks and Ithink a lot of that has to do
with being self-employed isreally it's a inner game,
(04:24):
because you're always lookingfor ways.
It's always teaching you whereyou're not showing up, how to
get better, what you have to doto be good enough to compete in
business, and in order to dothat from a healthy perspective,
it takes a little bit ofpractice.
Yeah, I think that it requirespractice and mistakes.
(04:47):
If all I told you about werethe successes, you would think
that that's all it took in orderto be successful, but I find
that the more I talk about themistakes, there's actually a lot
more learning lessons in those,and every entrepreneur will go
through them at some point intheir journey lessons in those,
and every entrepreneur will gothrough them at some point in
(05:07):
their journey.
Fatima Bey (05:12):
Absolutely so.
You said you got into itbecause you had feelings of
unworthiness and that hinderedyou early on.
Matthew Stafford (05:16):
Yes, yeah, yes .
Fatima Bey (05:18):
Where did the difference happen?
Matthew Stafford (05:29):
um, I, I was at an emotional intelligence uh
event where they had you therefor a thursday, friday, saturday
, three weekends in a row andthey took us through an
experience where we had to actout our father and mother and,
um, just to be vulnerable, Igrew up in a very violent
household.
My father was extremely abusiveto the children and my mom, and
so I always thought in my mindthe reason why I struggled with
(05:53):
those feelings and relationshipswas because my parents said I
love you, but then we got beat,and so I thought I just had this
weird view of love.
And when I went through thisemotional intelligent weekend
and we had to act out ourparents, I acted out.
My father first acted angry andpretended like I was slapping
(06:14):
the person, and then, when itgot to having to act out my mom,
I actually turned around andfaced the wall that was right
behind me and I had aconversation that was it was the
aha moment for me.
I was like, oh, that's, this isweird.
My mom never hit me.
And then I said, oh, and my momnever played with me and my mom
(06:36):
never took me anywhere my momnever.
And I realized right at thatmoment that the reason I
struggled and felt that way wasbecause I had never developed a
healthy relationship with my mom.
Fatima Bey (06:49):
And it took you a long time to recognize that.
Matthew Stafford (06:52):
Yeah, I was in my late 40s, so it was
literally, and it's helped medetermine what my legacy, or
what my purpose is, is to helpother children not have to wait
until they're in their 40s, orthree, four decades into their
journey to figure out that thestories that we tell in our
heads a lot of times can be veryunhealthy and they're just not
(07:15):
true.
Fatima Bey (07:15):
It's a matter of addressing them and just
unlearning what we used as acoping mechanism to be safe when
we were young, copingmechanisms as a coping mechanism
to be safe when we were young,coping mechanisms those can be
good or bad, depending on whatyou're talking about yeah, and
at what stage of life you're in?
Matthew Stafford (07:34):
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't say that
they're all healthy.
Fatima Bey (07:37):
No, but sometimes they stick with you until you're
old, or you work with them fora season until you realize
they're unhealthy and dosomething else.
You know, everybody's story isa little bit different, but I'm
going to ask you this becausethis is a part of the
conversation as well.
We're going to come back aroundto what we were just talking
about a little bit, but firsttell us what is e-commerce?
Matthew Stafford (08:00):
Yeah, e-commerce is essentially a
website that has a shopping cartand items that you can buy, so
it's a way for you to selleither information or physical
products online and then make aliving from it.
Fatima Bey (08:16):
So an online store kind of yeah, Anything you're
selling online, you have awebsite for it.
So why should someone youngbecome an entrepreneur in
e-commerce today?
Matthew Stafford (08:29):
Well, I honestly feel like I have the
opportunity to choose, to dowhatever I want, and I choose
e-commerce.
Every day, I get up excited.
It is constantly changing andevolving, constantly changing
and evolving, and I feel like,uh, it's the very best time in
the world to be in business,because you can literally open a
(08:50):
store and serve a worldwidemarket uh, overnight and uh,
with, with the right trainingand the right work ethic, uh,
I've witnessed people havemeteoric success.
In fact, I I work with, so farto date, my most successful
(09:10):
client, and he's 31 years oldnow and his company will do
about $70 million this year.
And four years ago he wassleeping on a mattress in
Montreal.
Fatima Bey (09:22):
I love stories like that.
Now I'm going to go back aroundto, like I said, weave this
into what we're talking aboutwith e-commerce.
So if you become an e-commerceperson, you have your own online
store, which really anybody cando these days, and anybody
really can be successful with it.
What are the emotional reasonsthat might cause someone to not
(09:45):
succeed with it?
Matthew Stafford (09:47):
Well, one could be a false expectation of
looking on social media andseeing the highlight reel of
people that are claiming thatthey work four hours a week and
have a laptop and can go allover the world.
I've had a lot of people getinto it, thinking that and
they're sadly disappointed thatjust being in business for
(10:11):
yourself requires that you showup and, most of the time, work
much harder than your employeesever will even imagine doing.
And so I never try to paint thepretty picture because I don't
think that that sets the properexpectation.
You can certainly do very well,but you're not going to do that
, competing with the people whoare working very hard and
(10:36):
becoming hyper successful thatway.
Fatima Bey (10:38):
Right.
Can you think of some emotionalreasons why someone would be
successful in e-commerce reasonswhy someone would be successful
in e-commerce.
Matthew Stafford (10:44):
Um, yeah, they believe in themselves and that
they uh have the attitude that,uh, they're going to make
mistakes, they're going to falldown and they get back up and do
it again and again until theyget better.
I always tell everybody, whenyou first start, you're going to
suck and then you'll probablythink it's not working.
(11:05):
Most people give up just beforeit actually becomes successful
because they haven't put enoughgrunt work into it to actually
get good enough that people wantto give them money for what
they're doing Right.
Fatima Bey (11:19):
You have to just kind of fall down a couple of
times and get back up to realizewhich way to walk.
Matthew Stafford (11:26):
Yeah, I can tell you that I have not ever,
in the thousand store ownersthat we've worked with, I've
never had one tell me that theynever had an issue or that they
never thought that they were,you know, a week from failing or
all of these different thingsthat have happened during their
journey, until they got to thepoint where their business was
(11:46):
sustainable and it was, you know, able to provide for them to
build their own dream, yes, so Ialready asked you why someone
should start an e-commercebusiness, and completely agree
with you the freedom of runningyour own business is great.
Fatima Bey (12:01):
The drawback is you don't have consistent income,
but can that change?
Can they create an e-commercebusiness that does eventually
give them consistent income?
Matthew Stafford (12:18):
give them consistent income.
100%.
Yeah, I 100% believe that, andI mean the reason why you're in
business is to make money.
Profit's not a dirty word, andif you can't make money at being
in business, then I also saythat it's cool to be an
entrepreneur too.
Not everybody's got the makeupto be an entrepreneur, but you
can work inside of someoneelse's system, where you'll
(12:38):
thrive.
I have a bunch of people thatwere store owners didn't enjoy
the 30 things that they had todo.
We now run an agency that helpspeople optimize their
e-commerce store.
So the thing that they werereally good at.
We have a bunch of clients andthey can help them with that one
thing that they love doingevery day.
We have a bunch of clients andthey can help them with that one
thing that they love doingevery day, and they don't have
to run an entire business, butthey can just be very good at
(13:00):
what they do, or what they enjoydoing?
Fatima Bey (13:03):
How should someone, a youth who says you know what,
maybe I should try an e-commercestore?
How should they go about?
Matthew Stafford (13:14):
choosing what their thing is, that they're
selling.
I don't think that you have tolove what you sell.
I just think you have to lovethe process of figuring things
out, being a problem solver andbeing willing to go to show up
every day and work.
Fatima Bey (13:31):
That's really what I think it's going to take to be
successful.
I think loving what you sell ishelpful, but I totally agree
with what you're saying aboutloving the process, because you
can love what you sell but hatethe process, and that'll that'll
ruin everything for you too.
Matthew Stafford (13:42):
Yeah, In fact, my my most successful client
ever that I was talking aboutearlier.
Um, he had been selling theproducts that he sells for two
years, before he had ever evenridden in a truck that used
those products, so he hadalready, I think at that point
he was close to $14 million insales and had never even
(14:04):
experienced what he sold.
Fatima Bey (14:06):
So if someone wants to get into, let's say I am 17
and I want to get intoe-commerce and I like baseball
caps.
I got a whole wall full of caps.
I love caps.
I want to get into e-commerceand I like baseball caps.
I got a whole wall full of caps.
I love caps.
I want to sell baseball caps,but I want to do mine a little
bit different.
Whatever that difference is,how do I start?
Matthew Stafford (14:27):
There's a lot of free resources.
I really think that I agreewith Tony Robbins it's not how
many resources you have, it'show resourceful you are.
And YouTube, our blog, all ofthe things like.
We don't really work too muchwith startups.
We work with people thatalready have an established
business and increase it andgrow it.
(14:49):
But we put out all kinds ofinformation for people just
starting so that they can buildwith a solid foundation right
from the very beginning,understanding the optimization
principles, so that eventuallythey can grow the store to the
point where we could work withthem.
So there's lots of freeresources.
There's YouTube, with the LLMslike ChatGPT and Google's Gemini
(15:15):
.
There's zero reason why youcan't have the resources if
you're resourceful.
Fatima Bey (15:23):
Google AI Studio is something I'm very and, claude,
and I actually like Copilot too.
There's a lot of different AIs.
I use ChatGPT a little bit lessactually, but there's a lot of
different AIs out there thatChatGPT a little bit less
actually, but there's a lot ofdifferent AIs out there that are
just phenomenal at helping you,and all of them-.
Matthew Stafford (15:40):
They're literally the world's smartest
assistant.
They literally are, if you lookat them to do the work for you,
then you're probably gonna notget great results.
But if you treat it as anadvisor or like a coach or a
mentor and you tell it theresult that you're looking for,
it will help you, and it's.
(16:01):
We use it every day.
Fatima Bey (16:02):
I'm a living witness to that.
It has helped me a lot.
Matthew Stafford (16:06):
I definitely can.
I've watched it with go ahead.
Fatima Bey (16:09):
Go ahead.
Matthew Stafford (16:11):
I was going to say.
I've watched it with several ofour very successful store
owners and it doesn'tnecessarily they're not using it
to eliminate people.
They're using it to make thepeople that they have a lot more
quality output and a lot moreresourceful.
Fatima Bey (16:30):
So let me ask you this I'm 17.
I love my caps and I juststarted my online store called
Caps and Thangs and nobody'sbuying and it's failing and I
put all this money into it, evenif it's drop ship.
Okay, maybe I put some moneyinto it, but what do you do when
(16:51):
it fails?
When you start your businessand it doesn't go as planned,
what do you do it?
Matthew Stafford (16:57):
fails.
When you start your businessand it doesn't go as planned,
what do you do?
I'm going to say plan on that,plan on it not going as planned.
Again, like we were talkingabout a little bit ago, when you
first start, you're not goingto be good at it and you have to
remember you're competing withother people who have been doing
it for a while, and so there'sa lot of examples of how to do
(17:17):
it correctly.
And if you're willing to justkeep trying the people who just
keep trying, they always make it.
They just never fail.
If that's not the option goingin, that you'll figure it out.
Whatever it takes, I believethat you can't fail.
The only way you can fail is ifyou quit.
Right, you got to stop trying.
Fatima Bey (17:35):
That the only way you can fail is if you quit.
Right, you got to stop trying.
That's the only way you canfail.
So when someone is feeling likea failure because that just
doesn't go with the territory,everything's not going to work
the first time, does thatdiminish who they are as a
person?
Matthew Stafford (17:51):
No, absolutely not.
I truly believe that the storiesthat we tell have a lot to do
with when we were growing up asto whether we feel like we're
good enough or if we're capable.
And, to be honest, even when Iwasn't failing I was doing very
well in business I still feltlike that, and that has always
(18:15):
hindered the success of thebusiness that I was running
until I addressed those issuesfirst.
So if you are trying and tryingand trying, it's not working,
there's typically somebody whocould give you some advice or
who could walk you through somethings that would help you with
that, and so what it reallyrequires is for you to be
(18:38):
willing to be vulnerable andexpose yourself and say, hey,
this is what I'm thinking, thisis what I'm trying, it's not
working.
And I've never not been able tofind a mentor that wanted or
that didn't want to share whatthey did to be successful.
We understand the journey andhow hard it is, and when someone
(19:00):
reaches out and asks for help,I do all kinds of calls like
that and try to provide value inthe attempt to get them to the
next step.
Fatima Bey (19:12):
Now.
There's only one way of doingeverything to be successful in
e-commerce right step Nowthere's only one way of doing
everything to be successful ine-commerce, right?
Matthew Stafford (19:18):
No, yeah, I mean really, when you think
about it, every single thingthat you look at, that you touch
, that you interact with, it wassold by someone, it was built
by someone, so it's endless.
It always amazes me to see howpeople make their money and what
they sell and what they do andtheir story behind it.
A lot of times, your story ofthe failures is going to propel
(19:40):
you to the success of thebusiness, because people can
relate to the failure more thanthey can relate to the success.
Fatima Bey (19:49):
Oh, that's a really good way to word it and I
completely agree.
So here's to me the juiciestpart of the conversation Tell me
, share with the audience whatyou were telling me about your
future plans.
Matthew Stafford (20:03):
Yeah.
So just because of thechildhood that I grew up with
and the difficulty that itcaused me in the first four
decades of my life the firstfour decades of my life I really
have a deep sense of gratitudefor being able to figure out
those internal stories, and mygoal is to build a center where
(20:26):
I can help children like bigbrothers, big sisters, maybe
underserved people or ones thatdon't have the resources to get
the help, to learn sooner how tocorrect those stories and have
a healthy self-esteem early onin life so that they can do
better for the world, and Ithink that there'll be a huge
(20:47):
ripple effect from that.
Fatima Bey (20:51):
So how do you plan on doing that?
Matthew Stafford (20:53):
That's a very good question.
I'm still in the process offiguring that out myself, but I
do know that it will be a placewhere they can come and learn
how to develop a healthy storyabout themselves.
I coach other entrepreneurs andso I've helped take them from
(21:15):
the mindset where they'refailing to the mindset where
they're thriving, and I thinkthat our youth can learn or
unlearn much faster than we doas adults, because I had 40
years of confirmation bias ofbelieving those stories, and so
for me it's taken five years ofreally deep work to unwind it,
(21:37):
where the children that I'veworked with can do it so much
faster because they have a yearor two of confirmation bias and
(22:03):
their brains are much easier toadopt a new belief, and I say
that because that used to be oneof my big hangups and I would
be so much further along in lifehad I really truly embraced
that earlier on.
Fatima Bey (22:15):
There's a lot of reasons why I ended up that way.
Matthew Stafford (22:17):
Yeah, same for me.
My pattern, because of thetrauma that I dealt with when I
was younger, was I'm the onlysafe place for me Exactly safe
place for me.
So when things started workingreally good, I would literally
push people away because itdidn't feel safe when they got
(22:38):
close and that's hurt my successin a lot of different ways.
In relationships, I think ourrelationship with ourselves is a
mirror.
How our relationship is withmoney, was with other people is
with our physical health, and soas you get healthier mentally,
your relationships and all thoseother areas work better and
(22:58):
you'll be successful a lotfaster.
Whatever success means to you,I don't think success just means
you make a bunch of money,because I have a lot of friends
who make a lot of money andthey're very unhappy and I
wouldn't want their success.
Fatima Bey (23:11):
Right, that's not really success.
So, with this vision that youhave, if people have ideas for
you on how they can help, canthey contact you?
Matthew Stafford (23:26):
I would believe that I went through an
experience probably a year agonow.
I was at a conference and theguy asked the question.
He said I've always thought ofmyself as being very smart and
successful.
He goes.
But then I started asking, or Istarted looking at other people
are way more successful than me.
(23:47):
He said what if I change thatmindset to?
What if I wasn't smart?
Then all of a sudden, noweverybody's ideas.
I'm open to other people'sideas and since I've done that,
I've had a lot of people havereally good ideas that they
probably shared with me lots oftimes that I wasn't even aware
of when I thought I was smart,and so I believe that lots of
(24:11):
people will be able to give megood ideas to help make this
come to fruition a lot soonerand be more impactful.
Fatima Bey (24:19):
Yes.
So I'm going to say tolisteners right now if you have
ideas you heard his desire andhis idea and his, his idea If
you have a way that you can helphim and I do mean anything at
all, it could be you have anexpertise in a particular area.
You could loan your expertiseto him, it could be money, it
(24:43):
could be things If you have anyway that you think you could
help him his website will be inthe show notes contact him and
have a conversation.
I love to support people thatare actually trying to do
something for our youth thathelps them in a really deep and
genuine way.
So I'm hoping that you know thewhole world is listening right
now and can see what they can do.
Matthew Stafford (25:03):
I was just going to say yeah, I definitely
feel like we're put here on theearth to make it better for the
next generation and have animpact, and we typically do that
from pain to purpose.
So the pain that we've wentthrough and endured and learned
how to navigate, we can helpother people not have to go
(25:25):
through the same thing.
Fatima Bey (25:27):
One of the worst feelings is feeling like you're
alone and you're the only onewho's gone through and suffered
through what you've gone through, and that is never, ever, ever,
ever, actually true.
Matthew Stafford (25:37):
The problem is not enough of us are opening up
.
I think social media promotesthat too, just from the
standpoint of, you know, theyouth is so used to seeing
everybody else's highlight reel,but yet they still feel the
inadequacies and their flaws.
And so they're comparing theirworst self with everybody else's
(25:59):
best self and mostly fake self,yeah, and it just accentuates
where they feel like they'refailing, when truly they're not.
Fatima Bey (26:09):
I agree.
So before we go, I want you tospeak to the youth of the world.
What advice do you have forthem today?
Matthew Stafford (26:19):
I genuinely think you're our future and so
ask questions of people who havelived longer.
I know when I was that age, Iwish I would have done that more
, because I did.
I had the mentality of you know, I can figure it out myself.
And the truth of the matter isI've always figured out things
(26:40):
better when I collaborate andhad more impact when I didn't
try to do it on my own.
Fatima Bey (26:45):
So tell the audience where can they find you.
Matthew Stafford (26:49):
Yeah, my website is buildgrowthscalecom
and my email is matt atbuildgrowthscalecom.
Feel free to reach out by emailif you think I could support
you.
I'd be happy to and lookforward to, you know, helping
some of the listeners.
Fatima Bey (27:05):
Well, Matthew, thank you once again for coming on.
Matthew Stafford (27:08):
Thanks for having me.
Fatima Bey (27:18):
And now for a mind-shifting moment.
Today I'm going to do somethinga little bit different.
Instead of me making astatement at the end of the
episode to help shift somethinking, I want you to mind
shift me.
I want you to tell me whatyou're thinking.
What did you get out of thisepisode?
(27:39):
Was there a moment that reallyhit a spot for you?
Are you thinking about becomingan entrepreneur?
And this kind of pushed you alittle bit more?
What did you get most out ofeverything that Matthew said?
He said a lot.
I want you to go toFatimaBaycom.
Go to the podcast page and sendme a message.
(28:01):
What mind shift happened foryou, or how can you shift my
thinking about this podcast?
Go to FatimaBaycom.
Go to the podcast page.
Thank you, you've beenlistening to MindShift Power
Podcast.
(28:22):
For complete show notes on thisepisode and to join our global
movement, find us atFatimaBaycom.
Until next time, alwaysremember there's power in
shifting your thinking.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.