May 27, 2025 • 29 mins
Send an anonymous text message
What happens when the darkest moment of your life becomes your greatest teacher? For Elaine Lindsay, losing her best friend to suicide at age 16 became what she calls "the best, worst gift" she ever received—a painful catalyst that eventually transformed her from a self-destructive teen into a powerful advocate for suicide prevention and mental health awareness.
In this profoundly moving conversation, Elaine reveals her journey from experiencing unexplained suicidal thoughts as a child to founding Suicide Zen Forgiveness decades later. With raw honesty, she shares how her friend Andrea's suicide in 1972 sent her spiraling into years of substance abuse and repeated suicide attempts, while paradoxically providing the very reason she ultimately chose to live. "Every time I got close," she explains, "Andrea was in my ear saying 'Do you remember how upset you were? Do you really want to do that to your family?'"
The discussion takes a powerful turn when addressing how we can better support young people struggling with mental health challenges. Elaine offers this memorable advice for parents trying to connect with their teens: "Put duct tape on your mouth and give them a sign saying 'I will listen.'" This wisdom resonates deeply throughout the episode as both host and guest explore how creating safe spaces for authentic communication can literally save lives in a world where technological and social changes are happening at unprecedented speeds.
Beyond the heaviness of the topic, Elaine shares practical strategies that have helped her survive her darkest days—from the simple act of taking a nap to reset emotional states, to practicing gratitude even when you can only be "grateful that you can say you're grateful." Her turquoise hair and self-proclaimed title of "Dark Pollyanna" reflect the unexpected light she brings to conversations about suicide, offering hope that pain can eventually become purpose.
Connect with Elaine at the links below if you're struggling or know someone who is. Remember, whatever you're experiencing is temporary—you can choose to get over what you've been under.
https://thedarkpollyanna.com/portfolio/
Every episode brings global perspectives and leadership insights. Click on the "Support the show" link above and keep the mission alive!
Search MindShift Power Podcast buy topic here: https://www.fatimabey.com/podcast-search
Explore more about my work beyond podcasting, check out the blog, share your thoughts, or become a guest! https://www.FatimaBey.world
I also have another podcast called The MindShifter Audio Blog!
Experience my written words like never before, as I personally narrate my blogs for a truly engaging audio journey. https://www.fatimabey.com/audioblog
Join the MindShift Universe—where real conversations spark transformation!
Follow me on social media: Follow Me
Thank you for listening!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatima Bey (00:09):
Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the world's only
podcast built to empower thenext generation.
I'm your host, fatima Bey theMindShifter, because shaping
tomorrow's world starts withconversations we have today.
And welcome everyone.
Today we have with us ElaineLindsay.
(00:31):
She is from Ontario, canada.
She is the founder of SuicideZen Forgiveness, and we are
going to have a heartyconversation today.
So, elaine, why don't you goahead and introduce yourself to
everyone and tell us aboutyourself?
Elaine Lindsay (00:46):
Well, thank you for having me, fatima.
I really appreciate that.
I'm known as the dark Pollyanna, and as we get into things, I'm
sure people will figure thatone out.
I am, I guess, a computer geekand hack that finally had to pay
attention to what I considerthe best, worst gift I was ever
(01:10):
given, and that was from myfriend who died when I was 16.
She died by suicide, which ishow we get to where we are today
.
Fatima Bey (01:20):
So what is Suicides and?
Elaine Lindsay (01:22):
Forgiveness.
What is it?
Suicides and Forgiveness.
The podcast is for guests whowant to share their story,
because when you share yourstory, it lightens your burden.
And we talk about suicide loss,we talk about suicidal ideation
, we talk about attempts, wetalk about mental health, we
(01:46):
talk about all the conversationsthat are difficult, that people
don't want to have and I'veactually coined it's
conversations that we need tohave daily so that people
understand just how prevalentsuicide is.
Fatima Bey (02:06):
It is very suicide.
I mean, it is very prevalentConversations.
You said Savations.
Yeah, I like that and thatmakes sense to me.
So you have a podcast and Ihave seen you on other people's
podcasts talking about this.
I have seen you on otherpeople's podcasts talking about
this and you've become achampion of this topic and very
(02:27):
good at it, and so tell us yourstory of how you got into this.
Elaine Lindsay (02:34):
Okay, thank you for that.
And yeah, it actually startedwhen I was probably before I
turned five.
There's something that no oneknew until much later in my life
and that was suicidal ideation.
Didn't have a name for it,didn't know what it was, just
knew that if I burnt my toast orif I dropped something, one of
(02:58):
my options was always well, Icould just exit this life.
I didn't know that, everybodydidn't think like that.
I had no idea where it camefrom or what it was.
Fast forward a few years and Iworked in a mental institution.
Now you have to understand.
I am 69 years old.
(03:19):
I'll be 70 in November.
I'm a baby boomer.
So I lived a long, long timeago when things were very
different.
They had a God.
Forgive me, but this stupidsong that talked about being
locked up in the funny farm iswhat they called it and I was 12
when I started volunteering.
(03:41):
By the time I was 15, startedvolunteering by the time I was
15, they actually hired me forsummer.
I was a lifeguard for adulttraining unit, which was kind of
funny because I'm barely fivefoot two and some of the people
I was trying to coax into a poolwere six foot six and in a
couple of cases mean as snakes,in a couple of cases mean as
(04:02):
snakes, but I found a way to getthem to do what I needed them
to do in a way that was fun forall of us.
It was really important to me.
It's January 1st.
We are so excited, and on NewYear's Eve I was babysitting and
(04:27):
so was my friend, but she wasbabysitting her late aunt and
like old, old aunt and uncle,and I didn't want to call her.
I had actually picked up thephone and slammed it down
because I didn't want to get herin trouble.
That next night, when I went tothe concert, I couldn't find
her.
I couldn't find any of ourfriends and I walked around in a
bit of a stupor.
(04:47):
And I'll admit back then I wasa wild child.
Okay, I did drugs, I trieddrinking Don't like the taste of
alcohol so I was high onsomething stupid.
It was an Alice Cooper concert.
Of course I was on somethingstupid.
It was an Alice Cooper concert,of course I was.
An hour into the concert, a guythat we knew came barreling
(05:14):
towards me and said please tellme, it's not true, this can't be
happening.
We didn't have cell phones orpagers or anything like that
back then, and I lived at theedge of town, so it took me a
long time to get anywhere too.
I said what are you talkingabout?
He said, oh my God, andrea'sdead.
What are you talking about?
So she took her life and Islapped him as hard as I could.
I don't know why I slapped him,it just I didn't want that to
(05:37):
be true.
What came out of his mouth, butpart of me, because I couldn't
find anybody and because, on topof everything else, I was high,
suddenly knew that my life as Iknew it had ended and I didn't
know where to go from there.
By the end of that concert, someother people, two of my other
friends, showed up, and by theend of the concert, some other
(06:00):
people had to take me somewherebecause they couldn't send me
home like that.
Some other people had to takeme somewhere because they
couldn't send me home like that.
You see, back then things werea little bit different too,
because my friend was Jewish andI was Catholic, and in the
Catholic religion the worst sinyou can ever commit is to take
your own life.
The other thing is it was 1972in Canada, it had just turned
(06:22):
1972, and attempted suicide wasstill a crime.
Oh wow, I didn't know how to gohome and tell my parents.
I wanted to protect Andrea, Iwanted to make sure that nobody
said anything wrong about her ormade fun of her, and that
permeated the next four years ofmy life.
(06:42):
I managed to tell my parents,who, of course, didn't react the
way I thought they would.
My parents were very goodpeople, but I could not
reconcile what had happened.
(07:08):
Little ideation.
I now knew what the hell thatmeant, and what was going on in
my head was that I was going todo what she had done.
I knew at that point it wasonly a matter of time.
The next four years were spenteither getting drugs, drinking
and, every evening, sitting inthe cemetery.
Whether it was snow, whether itwas summer didn't matter.
(07:28):
Sitting there like a lumpwaiting for answers that never
came, and that's the hardestthing when you're young is not
being able to get answers tosomething.
That is really like drivingyour brain round in circles.
I mean, it's bad at any age,but when you're young you're
(07:50):
just learning about all thesethings.
You're a biological pot of soup.
All these hormones are doingweird things, your body's doing
weird things and then to have tohave these thoughts.
It is absolutely horrific andin all honesty I didn't deal
with it well.
Mostly.
(08:11):
I would think the suicidalideation had a lot to do with
that.
Our other friends seemed tomove on.
My parents had to take me hometo Scotland for six weeks
because they thought that mighthelp.
They didn't understand what wasgoing on, they had no idea of
what I was going through and infact they took me back to
(08:32):
Scotland, which just gave me awhole new host of friends to
meet and drugs to get and drinksto have, so that I could be
numb there too, because the mostimportant thing for me was
being numb.
I learned just two years agothat in fact I basically
(08:52):
mentally just took the trainback to 12 years old and stayed
there.
Took the train back to 12 yearsold and stayed there Mentally.
I had no concept of finance ormoney or any of those things,
and I stumbled through life thatway.
One quick thing I'll insertthere four years after Andrea
died, I was crushed betweenthree cars in front of her grave
(09:15):
.
I swear that she's the reasonI'm still here.
Somebody put the fur hood up onmy coat so my head didn't split
like a melon, lost part of myleg.
I was seven months pregnant.
I lost my child.
I had multiple breaks in bothlegs.
My skull was fractured.
I had all kinds of internalinjuries.
(09:37):
The next five years were spentin and out of surgery.
I'm now bionic, which is kindof cool.
All of this to say, it took me areally long, long time to get
to a place where I could startto understand what was going on.
But in all that time, everytime, I came to the edge and let
(10:00):
me tell you there were a lot ofthem.
There were a number of times Iwent over, but I'm a really good
actress, so never got caught.
Well, except once in thehospital when they were pumping
my stomach.
They give you charcoal and thenpump your stomach.
I had all kinds of excuses.
I don't know that they boughtthem, but the horrible thing is
(10:22):
nobody said anything.
Nobody asked me any questions.
Nobody went any deeper than ohwell, you're breathing again.
And what I took from all that?
Finally, in 2018, kate Spade and, a week or two later, anthony
Bourdain took their lives andall of a sudden, it was you know
(10:46):
what Andrea actually gave methe best, worst gift you could
give somebody.
She taught me what it was to beleft behind.
So every time that I got close,every time I did one of those
stupid things, andrea was in myear saying hey, do you really
want to do that to your family?
Do you remember how upset youwere?
(11:09):
You're still a mess, and thatplayed in my head all the time.
And finally, in 2018, I starteda podcast.
Then it was called KeepBreathing, because I didn't know
what else to call it, and itwas fumbly and I was just
begging people to talk tosomebody.
(11:29):
Don't take your life.
I'm telling you from someonewho's been there and back
multiple times don't do it.
And I didn't know how to get itacross.
And in 2021, I changed the nameto Suicide Zombies and
Forgiveness because of somethingI had learned through a zombie
(11:50):
park, which was totally silly,but people did not understand
that this was a serious podcast,and so I changed it to Suicide
Zen Forgiveness, because youneed to get to a place of calm
so that you can forgive all thethings that have happened to you
.
And, more importantly andplease hear this if you hear
(12:13):
nothing else, forgive yourself.
We do the best we can, atwhatever age we are, and beating
yourself up and going over andover questions that will never
ever be answered doesn't helpanybody, it doesn't.
Fatima Bey (12:31):
I want to take.
I want to go back to what youwere talking about and the fact
that you had a lot of suicideideation before your friend took
her life and that had a majoreffect on your response to that.
I want to talk about thatbecause that's not something
people talk about, but I dothink it's a thing.
(12:51):
I do think it's a thing and notjust with you when things
happen to other people, and thisgoes beyond just suicide when
we watch something horriblehappen to someone around us and
in this case it was suicide itconnects with that part of us
that was almost there and thatcan be more traumatizing than
just the event itself.
Elaine Lindsay (13:13):
When you were Absolutely, when you were Sorry,
go ahead, sorry, that guilt, itdoesn't matter that it didn't
happen to you, the fact that youwere there or you are so close
to that person, you feel likeyou should have been there.
There was always a feeling that, oh my God, I could have
(13:35):
stopped it, I could have pickedup that phone.
But you know what?
That's not true.
When someone is ready to go andyou haven't reached out,
there's nothing we can do atthat last moment.
There is nothing, and that'swhy it's all about the.
Let's get people to talk, let'stalk about this Because, let's
(14:00):
face it, okay, as a teen, Ididn't want to talk to my
parents.
I didn't want to talk to myparents about anything.
First of all, oh my God, backthen, when she, they were so
square and were so oh my God,they were so righteous and so
Catholic and all the things thatI was not interested in when I
(14:21):
was 15 and 16 years old.
And any kid will tell you thesame thing.
I mean, you don't necessarilywant to tell your parents there
is a piece of you that does butyou need them to ask you in the
right way.
And you know what I've learned.
I'm a mom, I'm a glam ma and no, that's not a speech impediment
(14:42):
.
I have learned the hard waythat we do want to talk.
We just need to know thatsomebody's listening.
That is safe.
And as a teenager, even as ayoung kid, as whatever, I don't
necessarily want you to fix me.
I just want you to listen to me.
(15:04):
You listen with your ears.
I don't want your mouth open,Like put duct tape on your mouth
.
If you're a parent and you wantto talk to your kid, duct tape
your mouth shut and give them asign saying I will listen, yes.
Fatima Bey (15:17):
That's something I say on here all the time.
We need to listen to our youth.
We spend a lot of timelecturing them and telling them
what they should do and blah,blah, blah.
But none of that matters.
If we don't listen, it reallydoesn't, because they're not
listening to us, unless we firstlisten to them Absolutely.
If we have great and wonderfuland right things to say, it does
not matter.
We got to listen, and not onlythat, but we don't always
(15:42):
understand.
As adults, we don't alwaysunderstand them and sometimes we
just can't.
We didn't grow up in the worldwe're growing up in.
We can't understand them.
So we need them to tell us, butthat can't happen unless we
listen.
Elaine Lindsay (15:56):
That's so true, and I get the fact that things
are are monumentally differenttoday than they were when I was
a kid and every generation thereare differences.
Okay, I get that.
This, now Gen Z and whatevercame after it, is the single
(16:22):
fastest spurt in time ofeverything from technology to
food to everything that we knewhas morphed into something else,
and it's at such a speed it'shard even for young kids to keep
up with what's going on.
(16:42):
Imagine for some of us oldpeople and you know, I've been
here for over six decades yeah,yeah, but you're more tech savvy
than me, so I think you gotsome on us.
Well, yeah, the tech savvy camefrom you know you spend a couple
of years in the hospital.
You've got nothing else to do.
(17:04):
So computers were a lot of fun,but it's got to be intimidating
for kids to deal with all thistechnology, to have to deal with
all the changes that are comingat them like bang, bang, bang
all the time.
It's so incredibly terrifyingthat I think, even more
(17:29):
importantly, that's why we needto listen.
Yes, yes, because if you don'tunderstand it, you know most
kids do understand a lot of it.
Some of it is assimilation.
It's just the way it works withthe world.
You know you come along and youget the latest stuff because
everybody else does.
But there is a gap betweenevery generation and the only
(17:55):
way to get past that gap is tobuild a bridge, and that bridge
is listening, and I wish I'dcome to this so much sooner.
I do say I am a super slowlearner, so if anybody's going
to repeat the lesson it'll of mygrandkids tells me that
somebody bullied them orsomebody did something, the
(18:34):
heathen in me wants to just goafter that person and annihilate
them.
I'm just being honest.
That's who I am.
Okay, I am mother bearextraordinaire.
Okay, I am mother bearextraordinaire.
I have to take a pause becauseI have learned, in pulling all
the things together, even fromwhen I was a kid.
(18:55):
Andrea's suicide made such adifference.
I understood over time that myparents didn't know how to deal
with this, that my parentsdidn't know how to deal with
this, so expecting things fromthem wasn't really fair.
I had to give them a littlemore information.
Fatima Bey (19:14):
I think what you just said, is very, very key
when we're dealing with stuff,really hard stuff, and we are
still trying to just figure itout ourselves.
Sometimes, especially whenwe're young, we expect our
parents to be that answer, orthe people around us, whether
it's your parents, whether it'syour auntie, siblings, whatever.
We expect them to be there forus and to be that answer.
(19:36):
And the truth is, they may notknow how to be the answer, and
so we have to be able to figureit out anyway.
And I want to point out thefact that you have taken your
pain and turned it into purposeand that's why we're having this
conversation and for listenersout there, especially my
(19:58):
precious youth, my young adultsand teens, the pain that you're
going through you can also turnit into purpose.
You might not do it in the nextfive minutes, you might do it in
the next year, but you can makea decision that you're not
going to just sit under the painand sit under it and sit under
it and sit under it, that you'regoing to take it and do
something with it.
(20:19):
And that's what Elaine has done.
She has taken that pain of whatshe's been through, what she's
experienced, her own pain, herfriend's pain on top of that
pain and decided that she'sgoing to.
She found a way to help others,and this woman has had a lot of
conversations, not just on thispodcast that have really
(20:40):
changed lives and and uh, it'svery evident that people that
come in contact with her uh havea mindset change, which is
beautiful.
So, with having said all ofthat, Elaine, what do you have
to say to young people out thereright now who are going through
pain they don't know how todeal with?
How can they turn that intopurpose?
Elaine Lindsay (20:59):
First, thing is okay.
Whatever you're going through,if it's feelings, if your
feelings got hurt, or it'semotions or it's actual physical
pain, just you have to rememberit will pass.
It will pass, this will change.
This is a temporary thing.
Nothing, nothing is foreverexcept death, and you don't want
(21:25):
a permanent solution tosomething that is temporary In
the moment.
Whatever's going on at thatmoment.
If the person that you fall inlove with rejects you, that is
horrible pain.
If you break your leg, that ishorrible pain and all of those
(21:48):
things.
To the person that's suffering,it is the worst pain in the
world and I get that.
But you have to take a nap.
Go take a nap.
If it's not bedtime, you can'tgo to sleep for the whole night.
Go take a nap, because when youwake up from even a short
(22:14):
little nap those first I don'tknow 10 to 17 seconds you're a
blank slate, there's nothingthere.
Okay, you can choose to goforward in a different way.
You can choose to put whateverwas driving you nuts behind you
(22:35):
and make a different choice.
And it's just, it's like thisspecial little eraser you get
that's going to allow you to putthings behind you.
And then one of the things thatreally helped me over time.
And I know it seems crazy, butit's having gratitude either at
(22:57):
the beginning of the day or atthe end of the day.
I always think about three tofive things that I am grateful
for, and there are days wherethat is the fact that I can say
I'm grateful.
I'm just grateful that I cansay I'm grateful.
Those are on the not so gooddays.
Other days I'm grateful for.
(23:19):
Last Thursday morning I went tothe front window.
It was bucketing rain.
It was kind of ugly out.
I get to the window and there'sa hummingbird like right there.
I was ecstatic.
I was like six feet off theground by that night.
That was the top of my list ofgratitude.
Oh my God, I saw a hummingbirdlike up close.
(23:42):
Yeah, they're hard to catchWith geraniums in my living room
.
That was why.
But that kind of thing beingthankful for the fact that you
can get out of bed, that you canopen your eyes and take a deep
breath I'm thankful for mybionic parts and I'm really
(24:02):
thankful on the days where ittakes me less than 15 minutes to
get out of bed.
That can be a bigaccomplishment on certain days.
Fatima Bey (24:10):
So what I'm extracting from what you're
saying right now is beingthankful.
We hear that from people allthe time, but being thankful can
actually be the very thing thathelps you to get an edge over
when you're really feeling downand depressed and you're really
feeling all the negativity fromwhatever your stuff is, and that
(24:31):
it's just that little bit thatpushes you towards betterment.
Elaine Lindsay (24:35):
It's a little thing, but it gives you some
dopamine.
Yes, yeah, okay.
And if you smile just toyourself, just in your room, as
you're being grateful, youcannot look sad or frown or do
any of those things when you'resmiling.
You just can't.
Your face doesn't work that way.
And it helps with the dopamine,and the dopamine I'm not
(24:59):
pushing drugs here, but thedopamine does make you feel a
little better and you get tobank that and you get to make
the choice in that next momentto do something that makes you
feel good, whatever that is foryou.
Well, elaine, how can peoplefind you.
(25:21):
They can look for the DarkPollyanna.
I have the website as well asthe handle all over.
I am elainelindsay also allover.
Szf42.com is the website forSuicide Zen Forgiveness, and I'm
there as well.
I also have turquoise hair.
(25:42):
It makes it easy for people topoint me out the picture on the
cover will not have turquoisehair.
It makes it easy for people topoint me out the picture on the
cover will not have turquoisehair.
Fatima Bey (25:55):
You guys can't see her.
But, yeah, thank you for comingon.
I don't just want to end bysaying thank you for coming on.
I really appreciate you comingon and telling your story, and I
truly believe that there's alot of people listening who may
or may not ever reach out to uswho heard your story and had a
little mind shift that made adifference, and to me, that's
(26:17):
what it's all about, that's whatI care about.
Hearing your story, even justnow, I was like wow, you're
proof that we can turn our paininto purpose.
You're proof that we don't haveto sit under.
We can choose to get over whatwe've been under, something I
say all the time.
It doesn't mean, oh, just getover it.
(26:37):
It means you're no longer stayunder it and you make a choice
to climb over it and live andthen say you know what I'm
helping other people live too,and that I respect you so much
for that and I really appreciateall that you put out there in
the world and all that, all thepeople that you help, that we
don't necessarily hear about,but I know they're there.
(26:58):
So thank you for all that youdo.
Elaine Lindsay (27:01):
Well, thank you so much, and if any of your
audience you want someone whowill duct tape her mouth and
just listen reach out to me.
Fatima Bey (27:11):
Yeah, and she is a no bullshit person.
I absolutely freaking love thatabout her.
Elaine Lindsay (27:16):
Well, thank you.
Yes, I don't like bullshit,okay, and my kids always knew
there's one thing you can't do.
Do not lie to me.
Yeah, I'm the same way I lovemy kids.
If you get in trouble, that'sokay, it happens, I'll get over
it, but don't lie to me.
Fatima Bey (27:36):
We need more adults like you.
Our youth I should say Ouryouth need more adults like you,
who just listen and understand,and there's a lot of things
that you said.
If I were a teenager, I'd bedrawn to you, just simply
because you understand and youlisten first, and that adults
take note.
Some of y'all need to do lesspreaching and more listening,
(27:57):
all right, well, thank you forcoming on.
Thank you, and now for a mindshifting moment.
For a mind-shifting moment, Iwant to plant a thought seed in
your head.
Today you heard Elaine talkabout how that suicide of her
friend Andrea really broughthome her own suicidal ideations,
(28:22):
and then she pacified her painwith drugs and whatever else.
I want you to turn that thoughtinto looking around you.
How many people around you arepacifying their pain?
It's not always drugs.
It could be with a lot of otherthings.
(28:42):
Sometimes what you're lookingat is someone pacifying their
pain because they don't know howelse to deal with it.
And although everyone should goget therapy I know it's a
reality that everyone isn't andeven if you do go find a
therapist, it's rare that youfind a good one.
That's just a fact.
So, with that being said, youmight try to help.
(29:04):
You don't have to be atherapist to help.
Sometimes one of the best waysyou can get to help you don't
have to be a therapist to help.
Sometimes one of the best waysyou can get to finding out what
you need to do to help is tolisten first.
Don't interrupt, don't judge,don't look at them like they're
stupid and crazy.
Listen first, because when youlisten first, that's where your
(29:40):
words can have power and theywill.
Now.
Listen to you is just onebranch of the MindShift universe
.
Explore more at FatimaBeycomand always remember there's
power in shifting your thinking.
See you next week.
Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the world's only
podcast built to empower thenext generation.
I'm your host, fatima Bey theMindShifter, because shaping
tomorrow's world starts withconversations we have today.
And welcome everyone.
Today we have with us ElaineLindsay.
(00:31):
She is from Ontario, canada.
She is the founder of SuicideZen Forgiveness, and we are
going to have a heartyconversation today.
So, elaine, why don't you goahead and introduce yourself to
everyone and tell us aboutyourself?
Elaine Lindsay (00:46):
Well, thank you for having me, fatima.
I really appreciate that.
I'm known as the dark Pollyanna, and as we get into things, I'm
sure people will figure thatone out.
I am, I guess, a computer geekand hack that finally had to pay
attention to what I considerthe best, worst gift I was ever
(01:10):
given, and that was from myfriend who died when I was 16.
She died by suicide, which ishow we get to where we are today
.
Fatima Bey (01:20):
So what is Suicides and?
Elaine Lindsay (01:22):
Forgiveness.
What is it?
Suicides and Forgiveness.
The podcast is for guests whowant to share their story,
because when you share yourstory, it lightens your burden.
And we talk about suicide loss,we talk about suicidal ideation
, we talk about attempts, wetalk about mental health, we
(01:46):
talk about all the conversationsthat are difficult, that people
don't want to have and I'veactually coined it's
conversations that we need tohave daily so that people
understand just how prevalentsuicide is.
Fatima Bey (02:06):
It is very suicide.
I mean, it is very prevalentConversations.
You said Savations.
Yeah, I like that and thatmakes sense to me.
So you have a podcast and Ihave seen you on other people's
podcasts talking about this.
I have seen you on otherpeople's podcasts talking about
this and you've become achampion of this topic and very
(02:27):
good at it, and so tell us yourstory of how you got into this.
Elaine Lindsay (02:34):
Okay, thank you for that.
And yeah, it actually startedwhen I was probably before I
turned five.
There's something that no oneknew until much later in my life
and that was suicidal ideation.
Didn't have a name for it,didn't know what it was, just
knew that if I burnt my toast orif I dropped something, one of
(02:58):
my options was always well, Icould just exit this life.
I didn't know that, everybodydidn't think like that.
I had no idea where it camefrom or what it was.
Fast forward a few years and Iworked in a mental institution.
Now you have to understand.
I am 69 years old.
(03:19):
I'll be 70 in November.
I'm a baby boomer.
So I lived a long, long timeago when things were very
different.
They had a God.
Forgive me, but this stupidsong that talked about being
locked up in the funny farm iswhat they called it and I was 12
when I started volunteering.
(03:41):
By the time I was 15, startedvolunteering by the time I was
15, they actually hired me forsummer.
I was a lifeguard for adulttraining unit, which was kind of
funny because I'm barely fivefoot two and some of the people
I was trying to coax into a poolwere six foot six and in a
couple of cases mean as snakes,in a couple of cases mean as
(04:02):
snakes, but I found a way to getthem to do what I needed them
to do in a way that was fun forall of us.
It was really important to me.
It's January 1st.
We are so excited, and on NewYear's Eve I was babysitting and
(04:27):
so was my friend, but she wasbabysitting her late aunt and
like old, old aunt and uncle,and I didn't want to call her.
I had actually picked up thephone and slammed it down
because I didn't want to get herin trouble.
That next night, when I went tothe concert, I couldn't find
her.
I couldn't find any of ourfriends and I walked around in a
bit of a stupor.
(04:47):
And I'll admit back then I wasa wild child.
Okay, I did drugs, I trieddrinking Don't like the taste of
alcohol so I was high onsomething stupid.
It was an Alice Cooper concert.
Of course I was on somethingstupid.
It was an Alice Cooper concert,of course I was.
An hour into the concert, a guythat we knew came barreling
(05:14):
towards me and said please tellme, it's not true, this can't be
happening.
We didn't have cell phones orpagers or anything like that
back then, and I lived at theedge of town, so it took me a
long time to get anywhere too.
I said what are you talkingabout?
He said, oh my God, andrea'sdead.
What are you talking about?
So she took her life and Islapped him as hard as I could.
I don't know why I slapped him,it just I didn't want that to
(05:37):
be true.
What came out of his mouth, butpart of me, because I couldn't
find anybody and because, on topof everything else, I was high,
suddenly knew that my life as Iknew it had ended and I didn't
know where to go from there.
By the end of that concert, someother people, two of my other
friends, showed up, and by theend of the concert, some other
(06:00):
people had to take me somewherebecause they couldn't send me
home like that.
Some other people had to takeme somewhere because they
couldn't send me home like that.
You see, back then things werea little bit different too,
because my friend was Jewish andI was Catholic, and in the
Catholic religion the worst sinyou can ever commit is to take
your own life.
The other thing is it was 1972in Canada, it had just turned
(06:22):
1972, and attempted suicide wasstill a crime.
Oh wow, I didn't know how to gohome and tell my parents.
I wanted to protect Andrea, Iwanted to make sure that nobody
said anything wrong about her ormade fun of her, and that
permeated the next four years ofmy life.
(06:42):
I managed to tell my parents,who, of course, didn't react the
way I thought they would.
My parents were very goodpeople, but I could not
reconcile what had happened.
(07:08):
Little ideation.
I now knew what the hell thatmeant, and what was going on in
my head was that I was going todo what she had done.
I knew at that point it wasonly a matter of time.
The next four years were spenteither getting drugs, drinking
and, every evening, sitting inthe cemetery.
Whether it was snow, whether itwas summer didn't matter.
(07:28):
Sitting there like a lumpwaiting for answers that never
came, and that's the hardestthing when you're young is not
being able to get answers tosomething.
That is really like drivingyour brain round in circles.
I mean, it's bad at any age,but when you're young you're
(07:50):
just learning about all thesethings.
You're a biological pot of soup.
All these hormones are doingweird things, your body's doing
weird things and then to have tohave these thoughts.
It is absolutely horrific andin all honesty I didn't deal
with it well.
Mostly.
(08:11):
I would think the suicidalideation had a lot to do with
that.
Our other friends seemed tomove on.
My parents had to take me hometo Scotland for six weeks
because they thought that mighthelp.
They didn't understand what wasgoing on, they had no idea of
what I was going through and infact they took me back to
(08:32):
Scotland, which just gave me awhole new host of friends to
meet and drugs to get and drinksto have, so that I could be
numb there too, because the mostimportant thing for me was
being numb.
I learned just two years agothat in fact I basically
(08:52):
mentally just took the trainback to 12 years old and stayed
there.
Took the train back to 12 yearsold and stayed there Mentally.
I had no concept of finance ormoney or any of those things,
and I stumbled through life thatway.
One quick thing I'll insertthere four years after Andrea
died, I was crushed betweenthree cars in front of her grave
(09:15):
.
I swear that she's the reasonI'm still here.
Somebody put the fur hood up onmy coat so my head didn't split
like a melon, lost part of myleg.
I was seven months pregnant.
I lost my child.
I had multiple breaks in bothlegs.
My skull was fractured.
I had all kinds of internalinjuries.
(09:37):
The next five years were spentin and out of surgery.
I'm now bionic, which is kindof cool.
All of this to say, it took me areally long, long time to get
to a place where I could startto understand what was going on.
But in all that time, everytime, I came to the edge and let
(10:00):
me tell you there were a lot ofthem.
There were a number of times Iwent over, but I'm a really good
actress, so never got caught.
Well, except once in thehospital when they were pumping
my stomach.
They give you charcoal and thenpump your stomach.
I had all kinds of excuses.
I don't know that they boughtthem, but the horrible thing is
(10:22):
nobody said anything.
Nobody asked me any questions.
Nobody went any deeper than ohwell, you're breathing again.
And what I took from all that?
Finally, in 2018, kate Spade and, a week or two later, anthony
Bourdain took their lives andall of a sudden, it was you know
(10:46):
what Andrea actually gave methe best, worst gift you could
give somebody.
She taught me what it was to beleft behind.
So every time that I got close,every time I did one of those
stupid things, andrea was in myear saying hey, do you really
want to do that to your family?
Do you remember how upset youwere?
(11:09):
You're still a mess, and thatplayed in my head all the time.
And finally, in 2018, I starteda podcast.
Then it was called KeepBreathing, because I didn't know
what else to call it, and itwas fumbly and I was just
begging people to talk tosomebody.
(11:29):
Don't take your life.
I'm telling you from someonewho's been there and back
multiple times don't do it.
And I didn't know how to get itacross.
And in 2021, I changed the nameto Suicide Zombies and
Forgiveness because of somethingI had learned through a zombie
(11:50):
park, which was totally silly,but people did not understand
that this was a serious podcast,and so I changed it to Suicide
Zen Forgiveness, because youneed to get to a place of calm
so that you can forgive all thethings that have happened to you
.
And, more importantly andplease hear this if you hear
(12:13):
nothing else, forgive yourself.
We do the best we can, atwhatever age we are, and beating
yourself up and going over andover questions that will never
ever be answered doesn't helpanybody, it doesn't.
Fatima Bey (12:31):
I want to take.
I want to go back to what youwere talking about and the fact
that you had a lot of suicideideation before your friend took
her life and that had a majoreffect on your response to that.
I want to talk about thatbecause that's not something
people talk about, but I dothink it's a thing.
(12:51):
I do think it's a thing and notjust with you when things
happen to other people, and thisgoes beyond just suicide when
we watch something horriblehappen to someone around us and
in this case it was suicide itconnects with that part of us
that was almost there and thatcan be more traumatizing than
just the event itself.
Elaine Lindsay (13:13):
When you were Absolutely, when you were Sorry,
go ahead, sorry, that guilt, itdoesn't matter that it didn't
happen to you, the fact that youwere there or you are so close
to that person, you feel likeyou should have been there.
There was always a feeling that, oh my God, I could have
(13:35):
stopped it, I could have pickedup that phone.
But you know what?
That's not true.
When someone is ready to go andyou haven't reached out,
there's nothing we can do atthat last moment.
There is nothing, and that'swhy it's all about the.
Let's get people to talk, let'stalk about this Because, let's
(14:00):
face it, okay, as a teen, Ididn't want to talk to my
parents.
I didn't want to talk to myparents about anything.
First of all, oh my God, backthen, when she, they were so
square and were so oh my God,they were so righteous and so
Catholic and all the things thatI was not interested in when I
(14:21):
was 15 and 16 years old.
And any kid will tell you thesame thing.
I mean, you don't necessarilywant to tell your parents there
is a piece of you that does butyou need them to ask you in the
right way.
And you know what I've learned.
I'm a mom, I'm a glam ma and no, that's not a speech impediment
(14:42):
.
I have learned the hard waythat we do want to talk.
We just need to know thatsomebody's listening.
That is safe.
And as a teenager, even as ayoung kid, as whatever, I don't
necessarily want you to fix me.
I just want you to listen to me.
(15:04):
You listen with your ears.
I don't want your mouth open,Like put duct tape on your mouth
.
If you're a parent and you wantto talk to your kid, duct tape
your mouth shut and give them asign saying I will listen, yes.
Fatima Bey (15:17):
That's something I say on here all the time.
We need to listen to our youth.
We spend a lot of timelecturing them and telling them
what they should do and blah,blah, blah.
But none of that matters.
If we don't listen, it reallydoesn't, because they're not
listening to us, unless we firstlisten to them Absolutely.
If we have great and wonderfuland right things to say, it does
not matter.
We got to listen, and not onlythat, but we don't always
(15:42):
understand.
As adults, we don't alwaysunderstand them and sometimes we
just can't.
We didn't grow up in the worldwe're growing up in.
We can't understand them.
So we need them to tell us, butthat can't happen unless we
listen.
Elaine Lindsay (15:56):
That's so true, and I get the fact that things
are are monumentally differenttoday than they were when I was
a kid and every generation thereare differences.
Okay, I get that.
This, now Gen Z and whatevercame after it, is the single
(16:22):
fastest spurt in time ofeverything from technology to
food to everything that we knewhas morphed into something else,
and it's at such a speed it'shard even for young kids to keep
up with what's going on.
(16:42):
Imagine for some of us oldpeople and you know, I've been
here for over six decades yeah,yeah, but you're more tech savvy
than me, so I think you gotsome on us.
Well, yeah, the tech savvy camefrom you know you spend a couple
of years in the hospital.
You've got nothing else to do.
(17:04):
So computers were a lot of fun,but it's got to be intimidating
for kids to deal with all thistechnology, to have to deal with
all the changes that are comingat them like bang, bang, bang
all the time.
It's so incredibly terrifyingthat I think, even more
(17:29):
importantly, that's why we needto listen.
Yes, yes, because if you don'tunderstand it, you know most
kids do understand a lot of it.
Some of it is assimilation.
It's just the way it works withthe world.
You know you come along and youget the latest stuff because
everybody else does.
But there is a gap betweenevery generation and the only
(17:55):
way to get past that gap is tobuild a bridge, and that bridge
is listening, and I wish I'dcome to this so much sooner.
I do say I am a super slowlearner, so if anybody's going
to repeat the lesson it'll of mygrandkids tells me that
somebody bullied them orsomebody did something, the
(18:34):
heathen in me wants to just goafter that person and annihilate
them.
I'm just being honest.
That's who I am.
Okay, I am mother bearextraordinaire.
Okay, I am mother bearextraordinaire.
I have to take a pause becauseI have learned, in pulling all
the things together, even fromwhen I was a kid.
(18:55):
Andrea's suicide made such adifference.
I understood over time that myparents didn't know how to deal
with this, that my parentsdidn't know how to deal with
this, so expecting things fromthem wasn't really fair.
I had to give them a littlemore information.
Fatima Bey (19:14):
I think what you just said, is very, very key
when we're dealing with stuff,really hard stuff, and we are
still trying to just figure itout ourselves.
Sometimes, especially whenwe're young, we expect our
parents to be that answer, orthe people around us, whether
it's your parents, whether it'syour auntie, siblings, whatever.
We expect them to be there forus and to be that answer.
(19:36):
And the truth is, they may notknow how to be the answer, and
so we have to be able to figureit out anyway.
And I want to point out thefact that you have taken your
pain and turned it into purposeand that's why we're having this
conversation and for listenersout there, especially my
(19:58):
precious youth, my young adultsand teens, the pain that you're
going through you can also turnit into purpose.
You might not do it in the nextfive minutes, you might do it in
the next year, but you can makea decision that you're not
going to just sit under the painand sit under it and sit under
it and sit under it, that you'regoing to take it and do
something with it.
(20:19):
And that's what Elaine has done.
She has taken that pain of whatshe's been through, what she's
experienced, her own pain, herfriend's pain on top of that
pain and decided that she'sgoing to.
She found a way to help others,and this woman has had a lot of
conversations, not just on thispodcast that have really
(20:40):
changed lives and and uh, it'svery evident that people that
come in contact with her uh havea mindset change, which is
beautiful.
So, with having said all ofthat, Elaine, what do you have
to say to young people out thereright now who are going through
pain they don't know how todeal with?
How can they turn that intopurpose?
Elaine Lindsay (20:59):
First, thing is okay.
Whatever you're going through,if it's feelings, if your
feelings got hurt, or it'semotions or it's actual physical
pain, just you have to rememberit will pass.
It will pass, this will change.
This is a temporary thing.
Nothing, nothing is foreverexcept death, and you don't want
(21:25):
a permanent solution tosomething that is temporary In
the moment.
Whatever's going on at thatmoment.
If the person that you fall inlove with rejects you, that is
horrible pain.
If you break your leg, that ishorrible pain and all of those
(21:48):
things.
To the person that's suffering,it is the worst pain in the
world and I get that.
But you have to take a nap.
Go take a nap.
If it's not bedtime, you can'tgo to sleep for the whole night.
Go take a nap, because when youwake up from even a short
(22:14):
little nap those first I don'tknow 10 to 17 seconds you're a
blank slate, there's nothingthere.
Okay, you can choose to goforward in a different way.
You can choose to put whateverwas driving you nuts behind you
(22:35):
and make a different choice.
And it's just, it's like thisspecial little eraser you get
that's going to allow you to putthings behind you.
And then one of the things thatreally helped me over time.
And I know it seems crazy, butit's having gratitude either at
(22:57):
the beginning of the day or atthe end of the day.
I always think about three tofive things that I am grateful
for, and there are days wherethat is the fact that I can say
I'm grateful.
I'm just grateful that I cansay I'm grateful.
Those are on the not so gooddays.
Other days I'm grateful for.
(23:19):
Last Thursday morning I went tothe front window.
It was bucketing rain.
It was kind of ugly out.
I get to the window and there'sa hummingbird like right there.
I was ecstatic.
I was like six feet off theground by that night.
That was the top of my list ofgratitude.
Oh my God, I saw a hummingbirdlike up close.
(23:42):
Yeah, they're hard to catchWith geraniums in my living room
.
That was why.
But that kind of thing beingthankful for the fact that you
can get out of bed, that you canopen your eyes and take a deep
breath I'm thankful for mybionic parts and I'm really
(24:02):
thankful on the days where ittakes me less than 15 minutes to
get out of bed.
That can be a bigaccomplishment on certain days.
Fatima Bey (24:10):
So what I'm extracting from what you're
saying right now is beingthankful.
We hear that from people allthe time, but being thankful can
actually be the very thing thathelps you to get an edge over
when you're really feeling downand depressed and you're really
feeling all the negativity fromwhatever your stuff is, and that
(24:31):
it's just that little bit thatpushes you towards betterment.
Elaine Lindsay (24:35):
It's a little thing, but it gives you some
dopamine.
Yes, yeah, okay.
And if you smile just toyourself, just in your room, as
you're being grateful, youcannot look sad or frown or do
any of those things when you'resmiling.
You just can't.
Your face doesn't work that way.
And it helps with the dopamine,and the dopamine I'm not
(24:59):
pushing drugs here, but thedopamine does make you feel a
little better and you get tobank that and you get to make
the choice in that next momentto do something that makes you
feel good, whatever that is foryou.
Well, elaine, how can peoplefind you.
(25:21):
They can look for the DarkPollyanna.
I have the website as well asthe handle all over.
I am elainelindsay also allover.
Szf42.com is the website forSuicide Zen Forgiveness, and I'm
there as well.
I also have turquoise hair.
(25:42):
It makes it easy for people topoint me out the picture on the
cover will not have turquoisehair.
It makes it easy for people topoint me out the picture on the
cover will not have turquoisehair.
Fatima Bey (25:55):
You guys can't see her.
But, yeah, thank you for comingon.
I don't just want to end bysaying thank you for coming on.
I really appreciate you comingon and telling your story, and I
truly believe that there's alot of people listening who may
or may not ever reach out to uswho heard your story and had a
little mind shift that made adifference, and to me, that's
(26:17):
what it's all about, that's whatI care about.
Hearing your story, even justnow, I was like wow, you're
proof that we can turn our paininto purpose.
You're proof that we don't haveto sit under.
We can choose to get over whatwe've been under, something I
say all the time.
It doesn't mean, oh, just getover it.
(26:37):
It means you're no longer stayunder it and you make a choice
to climb over it and live andthen say you know what I'm
helping other people live too,and that I respect you so much
for that and I really appreciateall that you put out there in
the world and all that, all thepeople that you help, that we
don't necessarily hear about,but I know they're there.
(26:58):
So thank you for all that youdo.
Elaine Lindsay (27:01):
Well, thank you so much, and if any of your
audience you want someone whowill duct tape her mouth and
just listen reach out to me.
Fatima Bey (27:11):
Yeah, and she is a no bullshit person.
I absolutely freaking love thatabout her.
Elaine Lindsay (27:16):
Well, thank you.
Yes, I don't like bullshit,okay, and my kids always knew
there's one thing you can't do.
Do not lie to me.
Yeah, I'm the same way I lovemy kids.
If you get in trouble, that'sokay, it happens, I'll get over
it, but don't lie to me.
Fatima Bey (27:36):
We need more adults like you.
Our youth I should say Ouryouth need more adults like you,
who just listen and understand,and there's a lot of things
that you said.
If I were a teenager, I'd bedrawn to you, just simply
because you understand and youlisten first, and that adults
take note.
Some of y'all need to do lesspreaching and more listening,
(27:57):
all right, well, thank you forcoming on.
Thank you, and now for a mindshifting moment.
For a mind-shifting moment, Iwant to plant a thought seed in
your head.
Today you heard Elaine talkabout how that suicide of her
friend Andrea really broughthome her own suicidal ideations,
(28:22):
and then she pacified her painwith drugs and whatever else.
I want you to turn that thoughtinto looking around you.
How many people around you arepacifying their pain?
It's not always drugs.
It could be with a lot of otherthings.
(28:42):
Sometimes what you're lookingat is someone pacifying their
pain because they don't know howelse to deal with it.
And although everyone should goget therapy I know it's a
reality that everyone isn't andeven if you do go find a
therapist, it's rare that youfind a good one.
That's just a fact.
So, with that being said, youmight try to help.
(29:04):
You don't have to be atherapist to help.
Sometimes one of the best waysyou can get to help you don't
have to be a therapist to help.
Sometimes one of the best waysyou can get to finding out what
you need to do to help is tolisten first.
Don't interrupt, don't judge,don't look at them like they're
stupid and crazy.
Listen first, because when youlisten first, that's where your
(29:40):
words can have power and theywill.
Now.
Listen to you is just onebranch of the MindShift universe
.
Explore more at FatimaBeycomand always remember there's
power in shifting your thinking.
See you next week.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.