November 22, 2025 • 29 mins
What if simplicity is the most powerful growth strategy you’re not using yet? We sit down with entrepreneur, mentor, and author Hussein Hallak to unpack how purpose-led business outperforms hype and why clear value beats complex pitch decks. From launching in Canada to opening new markets in Egypt, Hussein shares how universal principles—respect, clarity, and value exchange—travel across cultures while the details adapt. The result: shorter sales cycles, stronger trust, and partnerships that actually matter.
We dig into the practice of choice and personal agency. Hussein argues that good decisions are built through repetition, not perfection, and that most choices are reversible if you’re willing to learn fast. Instead of letting systems and scripts decide your path, he urges you to choose what you truly want—whether that’s money, impact, or the spotlight—and to own the responsibility that comes with it. This is how you avoid living someone else’s version of success and start building a life and business that feel aligned.
Expect practical frameworks wrapped in vivid analogies, from math problem solving to cars built for different roads. We talk about simplifying offers, stating concrete promises, and delivering value at the price customers are happy to pay. We also explore legacy: empowering people—especially youth—to think clearly, choose boldly, and lead with purpose. Hussein’s mentorship, writing, and Creative Commons book are designed to be shared so these ideas spread and stick.
If you’re ready to reframe growth with purpose, clarity, and courage, this conversation will give you tools you can use today. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend who needs a mindset reset, and leave a review with one choice you’re committing to this week.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatima Bey (00:02):
Mind Shift Power Podcast.
This is Mind Shift PowerPodcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, Fatima Bey, theMind Shifter.
And welcome everyone.
(00:23):
Today we have with us HusseinHalleck.
He is out of Canada, and he isthe founder and CEO of Next
Decentrum.
This man is not your averagebusinessman.
He's very unique, and I'mreally excited about this
conversation.
So, Hussein, how are you today?
Hussein Hallak (00:39):
I'm doing very well, Fatima.
Thank you for having me.
Fatima Bey (00:42):
Thank you for coming on.
Um, so I like to dive rightinto it.
So tell us, who are you andwhy'd you come on this podcast
today?
Hussein Hallak (00:50):
I guess I describe myself as an
entrepreneur and I'm also amentor and an author.
I love to talk to people andhelp them figure out their life
and uh their business uh becausethey're interrelated.
And I'm here because uh youhold great conversations that
talk to the youth, which are umsome of them are my kids who are
(01:13):
the youth, part of the youth.
And uh I've uh had theprivilege of mentoring a lot of
youth, and uh, it's one of themost enjoyable things that I've
done.
Fatima Bey (01:22):
And your your ability to connect with youth is
partly why you're on here, butyou are a different thinker, you
are not average, um and we'regonna talk about that.
So most people chase innovationfor profit, and you have
blended innovation with purpose.
So you don't just build, butyou you build to influence
(01:47):
culture, and that is that isvery different.
So what brought you to makethat choice?
Hussein Hallak (01:53):
I think throughout my life, I've always
wanted to do something thatmattered.
Um, from my upbringing, thekind of uh influences that I
had, the name that I carry,which is the name of my uncle,
how my family looked at me.
I've always thought that if Iwant to do something, dedicate
time for it, it it better matterto someone and it better add
(02:14):
value to someone.
Um it's gonna be equally ashard, which which I did.
I tried.
Uh I I I'm not a saint.
I I went the path of trying tomake a lot of money, and I tried
to do stuff that you know giveme status and I look good in
front of people.
And the things that brought methe most, I would say, joy,
(02:37):
happiness, and the things thatfulfilled me the most were the
things that added value topeople because uh whenever I'm
alone, like things don't don'thave meaning.
Like the things that enjoy themost are usually with someone
else, sometimes more.
So that is how I became, youknow, obsessed with doing
(02:59):
something that adds value topeople, that has a purpose, that
um takes us somewhere, whetherit's me and the people around
me.
And it's it's wonderful to tobump into people who will come
in and tell you, you know, uh, Ireally thank you.
I enjoyed this, I had valuewith this because it's the best
(03:19):
feedback that you can have.
Not just to build yourself upand you know feel important, but
you you see the value of thethings that you worked on and
how much impact they have.
Fatima Bey (03:34):
And that and that is awesome.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna pullout, I'm gonna extract some of
what you said because I want topoint out a principle, a key
principle that I want to reallyhighlight out of what you just
said.
And that is that you went thepath of chasing money down,
chasing, you know, oh, look atme.
I got the fastest car and themost money, ain't I great?
(03:54):
And that didn't satisfy you.
So you chose, and it is achoice, you chose to to go a
different route.
You can still make money,nothing wrong with that, but to
make money while also fulfillingpurpose.
And that is a narrative thatI'm constantly teaching and
preaching.
And I love that you're gonnatell us how you did that.
(04:16):
So, what I what we haven'ttalked about yet is what does
that look like in practice?
What is it that you build?
Hussein Hallak (04:24):
Well, in regards to choice, I I make a lot of
choices.
The only way to know thatyou're making good choices is to
make a lot of bad ones.
Unfortunately, that's true.
That's true.
Uh the and the way weunderstand choice, I found that
uh, I mean, even me when I wasfirst starting is that um you if
you give the choice too muchpower in the sense that this
(04:46):
choice is gonna make or break meor gonna govern what I do for
the next 20 years, most of thetime no choices are like that.
And you can always make adifferent choice the moment
after, unless like it's a it's areally consequential choice.
There are some choices likethat.
But most choices in life areeasy choices that you can make
and make again and again.
So the more choices you make,uh more often the more practice
(05:10):
you have.
So that's how I got around todo that.
And what I do in in daily lifeis I actually help uh people who
are building businesses tobuild a far more uh, I would
say, influential, impactfulbusiness that adds value.
Because at the end of the day,a great business, a business
that grows, is a business thatmakes a great promise and
(05:34):
delivers on that promise.
Um at the end of the day, yourclients want value from you.
So you have to constantly beinvolved in how you deliver
value.
We make businesses so much, abusiness has so many moving
parts, but it's as simple as acar.
If you look at a car, of courseyou can open it up and it has
like a, you know, I don't know,uh 100,000 pieces.
(05:57):
Um, but at the end of the day,the principle of a car is
simple.
You go from A to B.
And depending on what kind ofcar, it can be a Formula One or
it can be, you know, uh, I don'tknow, a Toyota.
And uh depending on where youwant to go, a Formula One may
sound like a great car, but itdoesn't serve you on the regular
streets and in the busyness ofa of a city.
(06:19):
And a Toyota doesn't work on aNASCAR, let's say, ring, or you
know, so it's really a businessis just a mechanism to deliver
value.
So we I like to simplify thingswhen I work with business
leaders and when I work withentrepreneurs, when I work with
even youth who are who aretrying to build something and
trying to understand this, howdo they find their place in
(06:41):
life?
I like to simplify things,teach it to them, help them do
it.
And uh I've been lucky thatI've been able to help some
young entrepreneurs buildhundred million dollar
companies.
So um I love to simplifythings, I love to teach, and
that is the core of what I do ineverything I do.
Fatima Bey (07:01):
So it sounds like you teach principles first,
details second.
Would that be an accurate wayto say it?
That's a great way of sayingit, yeah.
I do too, and I love it.
I I believe very strongly in itbecause when you when you do
that, then it helps people tohave the right mindset.
You know, I I see you as a sortof a mind shifter um in certain
(07:22):
areas of business.
And and I think that's abeautiful thing because what you
just described is exactly that.
Sounds like you you help peopleto think differently, see the
principles, and then let's talkabout the details of how to
accomplish that.
And instead of just one, two,three, you're a robot, follow
this formula and everything willwork out.
It doesn't because it doesn'talways, because we need our
(07:44):
minds in the right place tohandle that one, two, three
first.
And um, and I love that you'redoing that.
So can you give me an exampleof in in whether in art or tech
where you have where you've donethis um for one of your
businesses?
Hussein Hallak (08:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
In our in our current business,actually, uh right now we're
opening a business in in Egypt,and you're starting in a new
market that you know very littleabout.
You we have a team member therethat is running with the
business.
And it's challenging to figureout um, you know, every market
(08:21):
has its own details, has its ownmechanisms, has its own forces
and things you can't predictbecause we're not there, we're
not on the ground.
And even though I traveledthere, I stayed there for a
month, I could never understandall the things, all the forces
that control the market andchange the market.
So when we come down to certainprinciples and certain details
(08:42):
that are uh I avoid, I wouldsay, the details and come back
to the what the core of thebusiness is, even throughout the
challenges of language,throughout the challenges of
culture, people relate to thatbecause when you simplify
things, people can understandthem, can grasp them.
And right now, we moved from abusiness that just started a few
(09:05):
months ago, and now we're justabout to sign really big
contracts.
And the people we're workingwith, they want to put us in
front of the kind of the biggestnames in that market because we
were able to simplify thingsand we're able to have a
conversation with them that youknow, we don't throw a pitch
deck at them in a one-hour salesmeeting.
(09:26):
Our meeting with them is like15 minutes.
Here's what we do, here's howit adds value to you, here's how
it will add value to otherpeople.
And people love that.
It's like if I'm inviting you,you know, if I'm saying, come,
let's meet up and we'll figureit out.
And like, okay, I'm not sure.
But if I say, hey, I have agreat meal, you know, we're
(09:46):
gonna eat sushi, for example,you know, come along.
It's it's a simple ask.
It's like, oh, yeah, of courseI want to eat, and you can make
a choice there to eat it or not,or maybe you don't like sushi.
But that is how simple aconversation should be.
We make business far morecomplicated than it needs to be,
and in big companies maybe itis, but at at the small level of
(10:08):
building a small company andgrowing it, usually the simplest
principles are the mostpowerful.
Fatima Bey (10:15):
Yes.
And let me ask you this,because this I think um I I I
already know how you're gonnaanswer, but you've built
businesses um in Canada,correct?
And now you are helping tobuild businesses in Egypt, or at
least a business.
Do you handle them differently?
Hussein Hallak (10:41):
I if I look back, I don't.
I usually I think one of thethings that that are unique to
me is my consistency in how Iapply certain things.
I think when you stand to cerfor certain principles, like I
learned branding while I was inDubai.
I grew up in Syria, but then Iworked in Dubai, and I was
(11:03):
fascinated with branding.
And everything I read aboutbranding was built for America.
America is the kind of the thekings of marketing, the kings of
branding, they invented uh thisstuff.
So I'm learning about thesethings, but then you need to
apply them in a differentmarket, in a different setting.
Right.
And a lot of people would wouldcome in and say, oh, we need to
(11:26):
apply them uh in a differentway.
And I found that if youactually strip things down to
the the uh I would say the keyprinciples, the foundation, uh
things will apply in everysingle market.
You just have to remove all ofthe fluff around them, and uh
because at the end of the day,people are the same wherever you
(11:48):
go.
There are cultural differences,but if you look at uh the
things that are universal, uhwhat we love, the things that we
enjoy, they're kind ofuniversal.
At their heart, they'reuniversal.
So that's what I found.
And I think if you simplifythings and you you ask yourself,
what do people really want?
(12:08):
What is the thing that willtouch on the heart of almost
everyone, you will be in touchwith those principles that work
anywhere you go.
Fatima Bey (12:18):
The reason I asked that is because it goes back to
what I was saying earlier andhow you and I both think we
believe in principles first,details second.
And there's a lot of peoplethat would say, okay, well, you
built businesses in Canada, theculture is very similar to the
US, Western civilization.
You go over to Egypt, Egypt,they speak Arabic, the men are
(12:40):
dominant, uh, most of them areMuslim.
So they're and they're in thedesert.
So therefore, everything mustbe different.
But I see that as those arejust details.
The principle is the samebecause you're right.
Humans are humans everywhereyou go.
I don't care what color theyare, what language they speak,
what continent they're on.
We all want the same things ashumans, and the same principles
(13:01):
work for all of us.
We may apply them a little bitdifferently, so the work is
gonna be done in Arabic insteadof English.
That's um that's a minordetail, but a relevant one,
obviously.
But the principles, theprinciples, and I say that
because I just want to extractevery lesson I can out of you.
Um the the principles um don'tchange.
(13:22):
And and that's why I asked youthat, because I knew you were
gonna say that.
You know, if we just stopgetting stuck in details and
bring it down to the bare bones,as you say, strip it down to
the principles and start workingfrom there.
We handle things differently.
I I'll tell you, I used totutor math and I used to teach
(13:42):
in tutor math.
I actually love math.
My the way algebra works, mybrain is wired that way.
You break things down, you takethem apart, put them back
together, and I see all themoving parts and connect all the
dots.
I naturally do that.
So for me, that math was easy.
But for most people, math ishard.
If you don't, if you're not amathematical thinker, it's
really difficult.
(14:02):
And I understood that.
So what I would do is insteadof teaching them, okay, here's
how you do this formula, here'show you do that formula, so they
could pass the test, just theydon't freaking understand
nothing.
So so what I would do is Iwould use analogies that they
could relate to, whether it'scars, whether it's race, whether
it's vacuum cleaners, water,whatever I could use that they
would understand to get them tounderstand the mathematical
(14:24):
principles first.
Once they understood themathematical principles, now
let's carry that over into theactual equations that you have
to figure out past this test.
Then it was easy for them.
They're like, oh my God, I gotthat.
I'm like, yeah, you dounderstand it.
It just has to be explaineddifferently.
And I I I liken that to whatyou're explaining is that you
you uh you are you're notadjusting your principles,
(14:46):
you're only adjusting thedetails.
Is that a good way to say it?
Hussein Hallak (14:50):
I think I think that's a that's a very good
example when you mention math.
I love math and and I used tobe very, very good at it because
I studied engineering and Iused to math, was I used to kind
of uh spend time trying tosolve equations.
And as you said, there arecertain principles that no
matter what problem, mathproblem they put in front of
you, you go back to theprinciples and you try different
(15:12):
things until you get you get tosolution.
You can't memorize.
I didn't memorize.
I would I would actually comeback to the principles and I
follow and I try to solve theproblem and find different
paths.
Uh that's how I that's how Iwould I would work through math.
And I think if we if we bringit bring it to a very clear
example, when when we talk thereare many different things when
(15:34):
you go to Egypt, when you go toDubai.
For example, in Dubai, you canmeet a customer at 10:30 p.m.
They would call you, they wouldnot, they would not consider it
rude to call you at 10 p.m.
They would be talking business,like they would not say, sorry
for calling you this late.
It's like, hey Hussein, whatabout this, this, this, and and
then we say, well, let's let'scatch up and we'll go to the
(15:55):
mall and we'll sit and have acoffee at 10:30 p.m.
talking business.
So I can yeah, I can see inyour face that that because we
have cameras, uh, like I can seehow you're surprised.
In Vancouver, for example,after 5, don't talk to anybody
about business.
In fact, in Vancouver, youcan't go network.
(16:17):
People rarely go to networkingevents uh because they have a
strict life work-life balance,for example.
In Egypt, don't talk to anyonebefore 10 a.m.
You know, they go to work at 10a.m.
Yeah.
So, for example, like it's theopposite.
So every c there are thesethings that are culturally
(16:37):
different.
So we need to learn that.
However, when you're having aconversation with someone, it's
like me having a conversationwith you.
You can be from America, youcan be uh from Djibouti, you can
be from uh, I don't care,France, for example.
At the end of the day, if I'mkind with you and I'm
respectful, these are principlesthat will go a long way,
(17:00):
regardless of where your cultureis.
I don't have to study yourculture and understand all of
the, let's say, how you saycertain things and all of that.
I just have to know that as ahuman being, I need to
understand that you're I'mrespectful of you.
I give you the respect and theand the care and attention and
listen to you.
That's then we can have a greatconversation.
(17:20):
When we go to a businessmeeting, I explain to them, hey,
business is a value exchange.
Your customer expects value andyou have to deliver value that
they're expecting.
So business principles aresimple.
Talk to the customer, find outwhat they value, and then find
the best way to deliver it tothem in the price they're
(17:40):
willing to pay.
That is what business is.
Everybody understands that.
Now, if I start telling them,you know, business is, you know,
strategy, marketing, sales, andthis is how we do it here, this
is how we do it there, I'll becorrect, but I'll be people will
listen and they will shaketheir heads and we will not
close the deal.
The best time when I close thedeal is when I explain and break
(18:03):
things down in such a way thatthey like like when you said
with with math, the differencebetween two math teachers, one
comes in and makes things soeasy, two, three things, and
people feel they have a grasp onit and they love that math
teacher.
Another person can be aprofessor, you know, one of the
greatest minds in math, andthrows stuff at them and they're
(18:23):
like, I can't, I'm not gettinganything.
I know he's correct and I knowhe's the master of his universe,
but I'm not getting anything.
I love that math teacher, eventhough they're less experienced
than the professor.
Fatima Bey (18:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Now, what legacy are with allthe work that you're doing, what
legacy are you leaving behind?
Hussein Hallak (18:47):
Well, I hope, especially with the book that I
written, I left a legacy ofpeople sticking to their
principles, um making their ownchoices in life, and living life
their way.
The one thing I want for peopleis to live life on their own
terms.
Life doesn't listen to us.
Uh life has so many things thatthrows at us.
(19:09):
It's like I I call it the seaof life.
The sea doesn't listen to thecaptain.
You can be the greatest captainin the world and the sea will
not listen to you.
You can be sailing andeverything looks fine, and then
it throws a storm your way anddestroys your ship and throws
you off track.
You can't control that.
But what you can control is theare the choices you make, how
(19:31):
you navigate, how you growyourself.
So I like for people to uhunderstand that and to live a
life as much as possible ontheir own terms, with their
making their own choices,navigating to the destination
they want, because it's only onelife that we live.
So that is the legacy I want toleave for people.
And that's what I do every day,helping them with their
(19:53):
business, with their life, withthe book that I write, with with
the uh with the writings that Iput out there.
That is what I want for peopleto do.
Fatima Bey (20:01):
By the way, he does have uh Hussein does have a lot
uh on his website in terms ofblogs.
He'll tell you the website atthe end, but uh you should take
a look at them because they'revery uh smart.
Hussein Hallak (20:14):
Thank you.
Fatima Bey (20:15):
That's like that's like the minimal word for it.
But uh but they're they'repretty good, and you should uh
definitely take a look at them.
So what I hear is the the youleave legacy by influencing
those you work with to be havethe freedom to uh to work on
their own terms and to thinkabout it in a healthy way that
(20:37):
helps them to do better at itand be successful.
But what I also hear is theextended legacy is the influence
that those people will have ontheir environments, the
influence that those people willhave on maybe the youth around
them, the influence that thosepeople have on the city, on
their neighbors, on otherpeople.
(20:58):
And that's why I I that's why Ibelieve in so strongly what you
do, because it's partly whatI'm doing here.
If I influence one, they mightgo out and influence another.
And that just translates intolives changed.
And uh, you know, like I saidin the beginning, a lot of
people do what you do, and theyonly have, you know, corporate
mindset and making money inbottom line um in in in their
(21:23):
purview, in their sites.
But with you, yeah, you makeall that money too, but you're
doing it with purpose, which isfar more fulfilling and
exciting, and also why you'rememorable where we forget about
everybody else.
Um, so let me ask you this.
What do you want this nextgeneration to take away from all
that you were doing?
Hussein Hallak (21:44):
I think if I'm to be honest, is not just about
what I'm doing.
I think we we live our life,unfortunately.
Uh, everybody wants us to besomebody else.
And yeah, all I want forpeople, I don't think there's
anything wrong with going afterthe things you want to go after.
I I I make it a point inanything that I do is that, you
(22:06):
know, if you want the cars, goafter the cars.
If you want the money, go afterthe money.
But go after them because youwant them, not because somebody
told you you should want them.
Yeah, that is the only thing Iask of people.
There's nothing wrong withpursuing what you want to
pursue.
You want you want thespotlight?
By all means.
I went after the spotlight.
I was a headliner in a band, ina rock band when I was in
(22:27):
Syria.
I really yeah, I was on TV, uh,the morning show, 40 million
viewers in in when I was inDubai.
Uh, everything that I thought Iwanted to go after, I would go
after.
But I always I I tell thisadvice to my son as well.
I said, don't just follow theherd.
If you want to do something, doit because you chose it.
(22:49):
Because when you choose it, youhave the accountability and the
responsibility.
And when you do that, then youcan grow.
If you've done it for becauseother people have done it, you
won't grow.
And you will nobody will carrythe responsibility.
Nobody would say, well, if youdone it because you followed me,
well, I guess I'm responsible.
Nobody would do that.
So, because at the end of theday, responsibility will fall
(23:13):
upon you, and you will be heldaccountable for what you think,
what you say, what you do.
So you better do that from aplace of choice, from a place
that you chose them.
So, what that means is that youneed to take the time to
pursue, understand why you'repursuing these things.
And if you don't know why, takea moment and make a choice
(23:34):
about it.
If you want to drink, drinkbecause you choose it.
If you want to, you know, playwith the kids, play with the
kids because you want to chooseit.
If you want to play basketball,play basketball because you
choose it.
So, and and when you make thosechoices and when you're
comfortable with yourself makinga choice, when the moment
comes, you'll be able to thinkon your feet, you'll be able to
(23:56):
be solid with your choices, andnobody will be able to sway you
because you're confident ofyourself.
You know what you want tochoose, you know what you want.
A lot of people unfortunatelyget swept away into different
lifestyles, and they wake upwhen they're 30, 40, whatever.
I was like, did I live the lifethat I wanted?
Did I become me, or I becamesomebody else?
(24:18):
A version, you know, a versionof somebody else, which it's
empty, or it's not what I want.
So that's what I want forpeople is to make their own
choices and become their ownperson.
Fatima Bey (24:29):
I couldn't agree with you a thousand percent
more, would not be enough.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Um, you're so, so, so right.
And that is a key principlethat some of the adults need to
learn.
Because some of them are still13 when it comes to that.
There's a lot of adults whostill haven't figured that part
(24:50):
out.
Um, and if that's you, it's nottoo late.
It it really isn't.
You know, you are where youare, whatever.
I'm I'm not everywhere I shouldbe.
I will be, but you know, lifehappens, we make choices.
But I love what you just said.
Yes.
Yeah.
Hussein Hallak (25:09):
So a lot of people a lot of people blame
themselves and they think theyare the ones that are weak and
they are the ones that didn'tmake decisions and whatever
reasons you make up.
But you have to understand thatthere's a whole systemic uh a
system in place to take awaythat choice for from you.
Uh your parents make thechoices when you're when you're
(25:29):
young because they have to,they're the adults, but then
they hand you over to school.
Nothing wrong with school, Ilove school, but school has
certain paths for you.
It's already been decided that,for example, music is reduced,
math is upgraded.
Uh, those sort of so it may notwork for you, it may work for
certain people.
I love math, for example.
Some other people love music.
So these paths are made to youfor you.
(25:52):
And when you when you graduatefrom school, also the paths of
life are always chosen for you.
So you almost have to choosefrom what's available to you.
And you you're not askedthroughout life, what do you
choose?
What do you want?
And you're not encouraged to dothat on a regular basis and
often as it needs to be.
When you do that as often asyou need to be, you'll grow that
(26:14):
muscle.
That muscle has not been used.
That's all that it is.
It's a muscle that you have,but you haven't used it enough.
That's why you struggle whensomebody asks you, you want
chocolate or vanilla?
Uh uh, you know, people, do youwant to eat pizza?
I don't know.
You know, like the smallestchoices people don't know how to
make.
You've you've been there,you've been sitting with people,
and like forever, you know,it's all like two, three people
(26:36):
having to choose one thing, andpeople don't know.
It's because we never use thatmuscle.
I'm using that, of course, likeI'm making it a big deal out of
it, but just to illustrate thedifference.
Right.
So the more you use thatmuscle, the better you will get.
So it's never too late.
Start using it right now, anddon't start don't go into the
blame, and I made bad choices.
(26:56):
Everybody makes bad choices.
Fatima Bey (26:59):
Very good point.
Very, very good point.
So, Hussein, how can peoplefind you?
Hussein Hallak (27:06):
Easy.
Go to husseinhalag.com and I amactually, you can find my book,
you can find a lot of mywritings, and you can reach out
to me if you have a question touh for me.
I've always I always like totake questions and answer them.
And I'm launching a mentorshipprogram uh available for people.
So um I hope for people thebook I I wrote it so that people
(27:27):
can have access to everything Imentor and talk about in an
easy way.
It's like I think $2 on on umuh Amazon.
So it's very, very accessible.
And if that's too much for you,reach out to me.
I'll I'll make it available foryou.
Uh I want people to benefit.
My book is actually CreativeCommas, so people can take it,
(27:48):
can use it, can rip it, can canteach it to others.
I want more people to learn andmore people to grow and more
people to become confident intheir choices and more people to
become their own people.
Fatima Bey (28:03):
Yes.
And for those of you who arelistening right now and you're
looking for someone to uh speakto youth, I think he's a really
good choice uh because we needmore people like him that can
relate to them, that canactually uh talk to them and do
some mind shifting in a good waybecause our next generation
needs more people like that.
So thank you, Hussein, so, so,so much for coming on.
(28:26):
Um, I've really enjoyed talkingto you.
I wish we had another 17 hours,but uh we we're only doing one
show today.
Um, and once again, thank you.
You've been listening MindShiftPower Podcast for complete show
notes on this episode, and tojoin our global movement, find
(28:49):
us at fatimabay.com.
Until next time, alwaysremember there's power in
shifting your thinking.
Mind Shift Power Podcast.
This is Mind Shift PowerPodcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, Fatima Bey, theMind Shifter.
And welcome everyone.
(00:23):
Today we have with us HusseinHalleck.
He is out of Canada, and he isthe founder and CEO of Next
Decentrum.
This man is not your averagebusinessman.
He's very unique, and I'mreally excited about this
conversation.
So, Hussein, how are you today?
Hussein Hallak (00:39):
I'm doing very well, Fatima.
Thank you for having me.
Fatima Bey (00:42):
Thank you for coming on.
Um, so I like to dive rightinto it.
So tell us, who are you andwhy'd you come on this podcast
today?
Hussein Hallak (00:50):
I guess I describe myself as an
entrepreneur and I'm also amentor and an author.
I love to talk to people andhelp them figure out their life
and uh their business uh becausethey're interrelated.
And I'm here because uh youhold great conversations that
talk to the youth, which are umsome of them are my kids who are
(01:13):
the youth, part of the youth.
And uh I've uh had theprivilege of mentoring a lot of
youth, and uh, it's one of themost enjoyable things that I've
done.
Fatima Bey (01:22):
And your your ability to connect with youth is
partly why you're on here, butyou are a different thinker, you
are not average, um and we'regonna talk about that.
So most people chase innovationfor profit, and you have
blended innovation with purpose.
So you don't just build, butyou you build to influence
(01:47):
culture, and that is that isvery different.
So what brought you to makethat choice?
Hussein Hallak (01:53):
I think throughout my life, I've always
wanted to do something thatmattered.
Um, from my upbringing, thekind of uh influences that I
had, the name that I carry,which is the name of my uncle,
how my family looked at me.
I've always thought that if Iwant to do something, dedicate
time for it, it it better matterto someone and it better add
(02:14):
value to someone.
Um it's gonna be equally ashard, which which I did.
I tried.
Uh I I I'm not a saint.
I I went the path of trying tomake a lot of money, and I tried
to do stuff that you know giveme status and I look good in
front of people.
And the things that brought methe most, I would say, joy,
(02:37):
happiness, and the things thatfulfilled me the most were the
things that added value topeople because uh whenever I'm
alone, like things don't don'thave meaning.
Like the things that enjoy themost are usually with someone
else, sometimes more.
So that is how I became, youknow, obsessed with doing
(02:59):
something that adds value topeople, that has a purpose, that
um takes us somewhere, whetherit's me and the people around
me.
And it's it's wonderful to tobump into people who will come
in and tell you, you know, uh, Ireally thank you.
I enjoyed this, I had valuewith this because it's the best
(03:19):
feedback that you can have.
Not just to build yourself upand you know feel important, but
you you see the value of thethings that you worked on and
how much impact they have.
Fatima Bey (03:34):
And that and that is awesome.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna pullout, I'm gonna extract some of
what you said because I want topoint out a principle, a key
principle that I want to reallyhighlight out of what you just
said.
And that is that you went thepath of chasing money down,
chasing, you know, oh, look atme.
I got the fastest car and themost money, ain't I great?
(03:54):
And that didn't satisfy you.
So you chose, and it is achoice, you chose to to go a
different route.
You can still make money,nothing wrong with that, but to
make money while also fulfillingpurpose.
And that is a narrative thatI'm constantly teaching and
preaching.
And I love that you're gonnatell us how you did that.
(04:16):
So, what I what we haven'ttalked about yet is what does
that look like in practice?
What is it that you build?
Hussein Hallak (04:24):
Well, in regards to choice, I I make a lot of
choices.
The only way to know thatyou're making good choices is to
make a lot of bad ones.
Unfortunately, that's true.
That's true.
Uh the and the way weunderstand choice, I found that
uh, I mean, even me when I wasfirst starting is that um you if
you give the choice too muchpower in the sense that this
(04:46):
choice is gonna make or break meor gonna govern what I do for
the next 20 years, most of thetime no choices are like that.
And you can always make adifferent choice the moment
after, unless like it's a it's areally consequential choice.
There are some choices likethat.
But most choices in life areeasy choices that you can make
and make again and again.
So the more choices you make,uh more often the more practice
(05:10):
you have.
So that's how I got around todo that.
And what I do in in daily lifeis I actually help uh people who
are building businesses tobuild a far more uh, I would
say, influential, impactfulbusiness that adds value.
Because at the end of the day,a great business, a business
that grows, is a business thatmakes a great promise and
(05:34):
delivers on that promise.
Um at the end of the day, yourclients want value from you.
So you have to constantly beinvolved in how you deliver
value.
We make businesses so much, abusiness has so many moving
parts, but it's as simple as acar.
If you look at a car, of courseyou can open it up and it has
like a, you know, I don't know,uh 100,000 pieces.
(05:57):
Um, but at the end of the day,the principle of a car is
simple.
You go from A to B.
And depending on what kind ofcar, it can be a Formula One or
it can be, you know, uh, I don'tknow, a Toyota.
And uh depending on where youwant to go, a Formula One may
sound like a great car, but itdoesn't serve you on the regular
streets and in the busyness ofa of a city.
(06:19):
And a Toyota doesn't work on aNASCAR, let's say, ring, or you
know, so it's really a businessis just a mechanism to deliver
value.
So we I like to simplify thingswhen I work with business
leaders and when I work withentrepreneurs, when I work with
even youth who are who aretrying to build something and
trying to understand this, howdo they find their place in
(06:41):
life?
I like to simplify things,teach it to them, help them do
it.
And uh I've been lucky thatI've been able to help some
young entrepreneurs buildhundred million dollar
companies.
So um I love to simplifythings, I love to teach, and
that is the core of what I do ineverything I do.
Fatima Bey (07:01):
So it sounds like you teach principles first,
details second.
Would that be an accurate wayto say it?
That's a great way of sayingit, yeah.
I do too, and I love it.
I I believe very strongly in itbecause when you when you do
that, then it helps people tohave the right mindset.
You know, I I see you as a sortof a mind shifter um in certain
(07:22):
areas of business.
And and I think that's abeautiful thing because what you
just described is exactly that.
Sounds like you you help peopleto think differently, see the
principles, and then let's talkabout the details of how to
accomplish that.
And instead of just one, two,three, you're a robot, follow
this formula and everything willwork out.
It doesn't because it doesn'talways, because we need our
(07:44):
minds in the right place tohandle that one, two, three
first.
And um, and I love that you'redoing that.
So can you give me an exampleof in in whether in art or tech
where you have where you've donethis um for one of your
businesses?
Hussein Hallak (08:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
In our in our current business,actually, uh right now we're
opening a business in in Egypt,and you're starting in a new
market that you know very littleabout.
You we have a team member therethat is running with the
business.
And it's challenging to figureout um, you know, every market
(08:21):
has its own details, has its ownmechanisms, has its own forces
and things you can't predictbecause we're not there, we're
not on the ground.
And even though I traveledthere, I stayed there for a
month, I could never understandall the things, all the forces
that control the market andchange the market.
So when we come down to certainprinciples and certain details
(08:42):
that are uh I avoid, I wouldsay, the details and come back
to the what the core of thebusiness is, even throughout the
challenges of language,throughout the challenges of
culture, people relate to thatbecause when you simplify
things, people can understandthem, can grasp them.
And right now, we moved from abusiness that just started a few
(09:05):
months ago, and now we're justabout to sign really big
contracts.
And the people we're workingwith, they want to put us in
front of the kind of the biggestnames in that market because we
were able to simplify thingsand we're able to have a
conversation with them that youknow, we don't throw a pitch
deck at them in a one-hour salesmeeting.
(09:26):
Our meeting with them is like15 minutes.
Here's what we do, here's howit adds value to you, here's how
it will add value to otherpeople.
And people love that.
It's like if I'm inviting you,you know, if I'm saying, come,
let's meet up and we'll figureit out.
And like, okay, I'm not sure.
But if I say, hey, I have agreat meal, you know, we're
(09:46):
gonna eat sushi, for example,you know, come along.
It's it's a simple ask.
It's like, oh, yeah, of courseI want to eat, and you can make
a choice there to eat it or not,or maybe you don't like sushi.
But that is how simple aconversation should be.
We make business far morecomplicated than it needs to be,
and in big companies maybe itis, but at at the small level of
(10:08):
building a small company andgrowing it, usually the simplest
principles are the mostpowerful.
Fatima Bey (10:15):
Yes.
And let me ask you this,because this I think um I I I
already know how you're gonnaanswer, but you've built
businesses um in Canada,correct?
And now you are helping tobuild businesses in Egypt, or at
least a business.
Do you handle them differently?
Hussein Hallak (10:41):
I if I look back, I don't.
I usually I think one of thethings that that are unique to
me is my consistency in how Iapply certain things.
I think when you stand to cerfor certain principles, like I
learned branding while I was inDubai.
I grew up in Syria, but then Iworked in Dubai, and I was
(11:03):
fascinated with branding.
And everything I read aboutbranding was built for America.
America is the kind of the thekings of marketing, the kings of
branding, they invented uh thisstuff.
So I'm learning about thesethings, but then you need to
apply them in a differentmarket, in a different setting.
Right.
And a lot of people would wouldcome in and say, oh, we need to
(11:26):
apply them uh in a differentway.
And I found that if youactually strip things down to
the the uh I would say the keyprinciples, the foundation, uh
things will apply in everysingle market.
You just have to remove all ofthe fluff around them, and uh
because at the end of the day,people are the same wherever you
(11:48):
go.
There are cultural differences,but if you look at uh the
things that are universal, uhwhat we love, the things that we
enjoy, they're kind ofuniversal.
At their heart, they'reuniversal.
So that's what I found.
And I think if you simplifythings and you you ask yourself,
what do people really want?
(12:08):
What is the thing that willtouch on the heart of almost
everyone, you will be in touchwith those principles that work
anywhere you go.
Fatima Bey (12:18):
The reason I asked that is because it goes back to
what I was saying earlier andhow you and I both think we
believe in principles first,details second.
And there's a lot of peoplethat would say, okay, well, you
built businesses in Canada, theculture is very similar to the
US, Western civilization.
You go over to Egypt, Egypt,they speak Arabic, the men are
(12:40):
dominant, uh, most of them areMuslim.
So they're and they're in thedesert.
So therefore, everything mustbe different.
But I see that as those arejust details.
The principle is the samebecause you're right.
Humans are humans everywhereyou go.
I don't care what color theyare, what language they speak,
what continent they're on.
We all want the same things ashumans, and the same principles
(13:01):
work for all of us.
We may apply them a little bitdifferently, so the work is
gonna be done in Arabic insteadof English.
That's um that's a minordetail, but a relevant one,
obviously.
But the principles, theprinciples, and I say that
because I just want to extractevery lesson I can out of you.
Um the the principles um don'tchange.
(13:22):
And and that's why I asked youthat, because I knew you were
gonna say that.
You know, if we just stopgetting stuck in details and
bring it down to the bare bones,as you say, strip it down to
the principles and start workingfrom there.
We handle things differently.
I I'll tell you, I used totutor math and I used to teach
(13:42):
in tutor math.
I actually love math.
My the way algebra works, mybrain is wired that way.
You break things down, you takethem apart, put them back
together, and I see all themoving parts and connect all the
dots.
I naturally do that.
So for me, that math was easy.
But for most people, math ishard.
If you don't, if you're not amathematical thinker, it's
really difficult.
(14:02):
And I understood that.
So what I would do is insteadof teaching them, okay, here's
how you do this formula, here'show you do that formula, so they
could pass the test, just theydon't freaking understand
nothing.
So so what I would do is Iwould use analogies that they
could relate to, whether it'scars, whether it's race, whether
it's vacuum cleaners, water,whatever I could use that they
would understand to get them tounderstand the mathematical
(14:24):
principles first.
Once they understood themathematical principles, now
let's carry that over into theactual equations that you have
to figure out past this test.
Then it was easy for them.
They're like, oh my God, I gotthat.
I'm like, yeah, you dounderstand it.
It just has to be explaineddifferently.
And I I I liken that to whatyou're explaining is that you
you uh you are you're notadjusting your principles,
(14:46):
you're only adjusting thedetails.
Is that a good way to say it?
Hussein Hallak (14:50):
I think I think that's a that's a very good
example when you mention math.
I love math and and I used tobe very, very good at it because
I studied engineering and Iused to math, was I used to kind
of uh spend time trying tosolve equations.
And as you said, there arecertain principles that no
matter what problem, mathproblem they put in front of
you, you go back to theprinciples and you try different
(15:12):
things until you get you get tosolution.
You can't memorize.
I didn't memorize.
I would I would actually comeback to the principles and I
follow and I try to solve theproblem and find different
paths.
Uh that's how I that's how Iwould I would work through math.
And I think if we if we bringit bring it to a very clear
example, when when we talk thereare many different things when
(15:34):
you go to Egypt, when you go toDubai.
For example, in Dubai, you canmeet a customer at 10:30 p.m.
They would call you, they wouldnot, they would not consider it
rude to call you at 10 p.m.
They would be talking business,like they would not say, sorry
for calling you this late.
It's like, hey Hussein, whatabout this, this, this, and and
then we say, well, let's let'scatch up and we'll go to the
(15:55):
mall and we'll sit and have acoffee at 10:30 p.m.
talking business.
So I can yeah, I can see inyour face that that because we
have cameras, uh, like I can seehow you're surprised.
In Vancouver, for example,after 5, don't talk to anybody
about business.
In fact, in Vancouver, youcan't go network.
(16:17):
People rarely go to networkingevents uh because they have a
strict life work-life balance,for example.
In Egypt, don't talk to anyonebefore 10 a.m.
You know, they go to work at 10a.m.
Yeah.
So, for example, like it's theopposite.
So every c there are thesethings that are culturally
(16:37):
different.
So we need to learn that.
However, when you're having aconversation with someone, it's
like me having a conversationwith you.
You can be from America, youcan be uh from Djibouti, you can
be from uh, I don't care,France, for example.
At the end of the day, if I'mkind with you and I'm
respectful, these are principlesthat will go a long way,
(17:00):
regardless of where your cultureis.
I don't have to study yourculture and understand all of
the, let's say, how you saycertain things and all of that.
I just have to know that as ahuman being, I need to
understand that you're I'mrespectful of you.
I give you the respect and theand the care and attention and
listen to you.
That's then we can have a greatconversation.
(17:20):
When we go to a businessmeeting, I explain to them, hey,
business is a value exchange.
Your customer expects value andyou have to deliver value that
they're expecting.
So business principles aresimple.
Talk to the customer, find outwhat they value, and then find
the best way to deliver it tothem in the price they're
(17:40):
willing to pay.
That is what business is.
Everybody understands that.
Now, if I start telling them,you know, business is, you know,
strategy, marketing, sales, andthis is how we do it here, this
is how we do it there, I'll becorrect, but I'll be people will
listen and they will shaketheir heads and we will not
close the deal.
The best time when I close thedeal is when I explain and break
(18:03):
things down in such a way thatthey like like when you said
with with math, the differencebetween two math teachers, one
comes in and makes things soeasy, two, three things, and
people feel they have a grasp onit and they love that math
teacher.
Another person can be aprofessor, you know, one of the
greatest minds in math, andthrows stuff at them and they're
(18:23):
like, I can't, I'm not gettinganything.
I know he's correct and I knowhe's the master of his universe,
but I'm not getting anything.
I love that math teacher, eventhough they're less experienced
than the professor.
Fatima Bey (18:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Now, what legacy are with allthe work that you're doing, what
legacy are you leaving behind?
Hussein Hallak (18:47):
Well, I hope, especially with the book that I
written, I left a legacy ofpeople sticking to their
principles, um making their ownchoices in life, and living life
their way.
The one thing I want for peopleis to live life on their own
terms.
Life doesn't listen to us.
Uh life has so many things thatthrows at us.
(19:09):
It's like I I call it the seaof life.
The sea doesn't listen to thecaptain.
You can be the greatest captainin the world and the sea will
not listen to you.
You can be sailing andeverything looks fine, and then
it throws a storm your way anddestroys your ship and throws
you off track.
You can't control that.
But what you can control is theare the choices you make, how
(19:31):
you navigate, how you growyourself.
So I like for people to uhunderstand that and to live a
life as much as possible ontheir own terms, with their
making their own choices,navigating to the destination
they want, because it's only onelife that we live.
So that is the legacy I want toleave for people.
And that's what I do every day,helping them with their
(19:53):
business, with their life, withthe book that I write, with with
the uh with the writings that Iput out there.
That is what I want for peopleto do.
Fatima Bey (20:01):
By the way, he does have uh Hussein does have a lot
uh on his website in terms ofblogs.
He'll tell you the website atthe end, but uh you should take
a look at them because they'revery uh smart.
Hussein Hallak (20:14):
Thank you.
Fatima Bey (20:15):
That's like that's like the minimal word for it.
But uh but they're they'repretty good, and you should uh
definitely take a look at them.
So what I hear is the the youleave legacy by influencing
those you work with to be havethe freedom to uh to work on
their own terms and to thinkabout it in a healthy way that
(20:37):
helps them to do better at itand be successful.
But what I also hear is theextended legacy is the influence
that those people will have ontheir environments, the
influence that those people willhave on maybe the youth around
them, the influence that thosepeople have on the city, on
their neighbors, on otherpeople.
(20:58):
And that's why I I that's why Ibelieve in so strongly what you
do, because it's partly whatI'm doing here.
If I influence one, they mightgo out and influence another.
And that just translates intolives changed.
And uh, you know, like I saidin the beginning, a lot of
people do what you do, and theyonly have, you know, corporate
mindset and making money inbottom line um in in in their
(21:23):
purview, in their sites.
But with you, yeah, you makeall that money too, but you're
doing it with purpose, which isfar more fulfilling and
exciting, and also why you'rememorable where we forget about
everybody else.
Um, so let me ask you this.
What do you want this nextgeneration to take away from all
that you were doing?
Hussein Hallak (21:44):
I think if I'm to be honest, is not just about
what I'm doing.
I think we we live our life,unfortunately.
Uh, everybody wants us to besomebody else.
And yeah, all I want forpeople, I don't think there's
anything wrong with going afterthe things you want to go after.
I I I make it a point inanything that I do is that, you
(22:06):
know, if you want the cars, goafter the cars.
If you want the money, go afterthe money.
But go after them because youwant them, not because somebody
told you you should want them.
Yeah, that is the only thing Iask of people.
There's nothing wrong withpursuing what you want to
pursue.
You want you want thespotlight?
By all means.
I went after the spotlight.
I was a headliner in a band, ina rock band when I was in
(22:27):
Syria.
I really yeah, I was on TV, uh,the morning show, 40 million
viewers in in when I was inDubai.
Uh, everything that I thought Iwanted to go after, I would go
after.
But I always I I tell thisadvice to my son as well.
I said, don't just follow theherd.
If you want to do something, doit because you chose it.
(22:49):
Because when you choose it, youhave the accountability and the
responsibility.
And when you do that, then youcan grow.
If you've done it for becauseother people have done it, you
won't grow.
And you will nobody will carrythe responsibility.
Nobody would say, well, if youdone it because you followed me,
well, I guess I'm responsible.
Nobody would do that.
So, because at the end of theday, responsibility will fall
(23:13):
upon you, and you will be heldaccountable for what you think,
what you say, what you do.
So you better do that from aplace of choice, from a place
that you chose them.
So, what that means is that youneed to take the time to
pursue, understand why you'repursuing these things.
And if you don't know why, takea moment and make a choice
(23:34):
about it.
If you want to drink, drinkbecause you choose it.
If you want to, you know, playwith the kids, play with the
kids because you want to chooseit.
If you want to play basketball,play basketball because you
choose it.
So, and and when you make thosechoices and when you're
comfortable with yourself makinga choice, when the moment
comes, you'll be able to thinkon your feet, you'll be able to
(23:56):
be solid with your choices, andnobody will be able to sway you
because you're confident ofyourself.
You know what you want tochoose, you know what you want.
A lot of people unfortunatelyget swept away into different
lifestyles, and they wake upwhen they're 30, 40, whatever.
I was like, did I live the lifethat I wanted?
Did I become me, or I becamesomebody else?
(24:18):
A version, you know, a versionof somebody else, which it's
empty, or it's not what I want.
So that's what I want forpeople is to make their own
choices and become their ownperson.
Fatima Bey (24:29):
I couldn't agree with you a thousand percent
more, would not be enough.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Um, you're so, so, so right.
And that is a key principlethat some of the adults need to
learn.
Because some of them are still13 when it comes to that.
There's a lot of adults whostill haven't figured that part
(24:50):
out.
Um, and if that's you, it's nottoo late.
It it really isn't.
You know, you are where youare, whatever.
I'm I'm not everywhere I shouldbe.
I will be, but you know, lifehappens, we make choices.
But I love what you just said.
Yes.
Yeah.
Hussein Hallak (25:09):
So a lot of people a lot of people blame
themselves and they think theyare the ones that are weak and
they are the ones that didn'tmake decisions and whatever
reasons you make up.
But you have to understand thatthere's a whole systemic uh a
system in place to take awaythat choice for from you.
Uh your parents make thechoices when you're when you're
(25:29):
young because they have to,they're the adults, but then
they hand you over to school.
Nothing wrong with school, Ilove school, but school has
certain paths for you.
It's already been decided that,for example, music is reduced,
math is upgraded.
Uh, those sort of so it may notwork for you, it may work for
certain people.
I love math, for example.
Some other people love music.
So these paths are made to youfor you.
(25:52):
And when you when you graduatefrom school, also the paths of
life are always chosen for you.
So you almost have to choosefrom what's available to you.
And you you're not askedthroughout life, what do you
choose?
What do you want?
And you're not encouraged to dothat on a regular basis and
often as it needs to be.
When you do that as often asyou need to be, you'll grow that
(26:14):
muscle.
That muscle has not been used.
That's all that it is.
It's a muscle that you have,but you haven't used it enough.
That's why you struggle whensomebody asks you, you want
chocolate or vanilla?
Uh uh, you know, people, do youwant to eat pizza?
I don't know.
You know, like the smallestchoices people don't know how to
make.
You've you've been there,you've been sitting with people,
and like forever, you know,it's all like two, three people
(26:36):
having to choose one thing, andpeople don't know.
It's because we never use thatmuscle.
I'm using that, of course, likeI'm making it a big deal out of
it, but just to illustrate thedifference.
Right.
So the more you use thatmuscle, the better you will get.
So it's never too late.
Start using it right now, anddon't start don't go into the
blame, and I made bad choices.
(26:56):
Everybody makes bad choices.
Fatima Bey (26:59):
Very good point.
Very, very good point.
So, Hussein, how can peoplefind you?
Hussein Hallak (27:06):
Easy.
Go to husseinhalag.com and I amactually, you can find my book,
you can find a lot of mywritings, and you can reach out
to me if you have a question touh for me.
I've always I always like totake questions and answer them.
And I'm launching a mentorshipprogram uh available for people.
So um I hope for people thebook I I wrote it so that people
(27:27):
can have access to everything Imentor and talk about in an
easy way.
It's like I think $2 on on umuh Amazon.
So it's very, very accessible.
And if that's too much for you,reach out to me.
I'll I'll make it available foryou.
Uh I want people to benefit.
My book is actually CreativeCommas, so people can take it,
(27:48):
can use it, can rip it, can canteach it to others.
I want more people to learn andmore people to grow and more
people to become confident intheir choices and more people to
become their own people.
Fatima Bey (28:03):
Yes.
And for those of you who arelistening right now and you're
looking for someone to uh speakto youth, I think he's a really
good choice uh because we needmore people like him that can
relate to them, that canactually uh talk to them and do
some mind shifting in a good waybecause our next generation
needs more people like that.
So thank you, Hussein, so, so,so much for coming on.
(28:26):
Um, I've really enjoyed talkingto you.
I wish we had another 17 hours,but uh we we're only doing one
show today.
Um, and once again, thank you.
You've been listening MindShiftPower Podcast for complete show
notes on this episode, and tojoin our global movement, find
(28:49):
us at fatimabay.com.
Until next time, alwaysremember there's power in
shifting your thinking.
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