February 13, 2025 • 31 mins
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GrowYourYouthMinistry.com *** Youth Pastors: Are you truly leading or just managing? In this episode, we will be unlocking the secrets to elevating your leadership approach in youth ministry! We will be discussing the dynamics of little "l" and big "L" leadership. Inspired by Jesus's leadership style, we invite you to explore 3 different types of leadership modeled in scripture.
As we dissect modern leadership through the teachings of Jesus, we'll challenge you to reflect on your own motivations and methods. Join us for an episode filled with personal insights and scripture that encourage you to embrace and implement effective leadership strategies in your student ministry.
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You may also enjoy these episodes:
(#224) 5 Leadership Habits of Highly Effective & Visionary Youth Pastors
(#189) The 4 Phases of Youth Ministry - Which One Are You In? (DON'T GIVE UP NOW!)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everyone wins.
When the leader gets better,everything in our wake gets
better Our ministry, our teams,our morale, the culture, the
creativity, the innovation.
Everything is better when theleaders are better.
And we're meant to be leaders,not managers, and I wonder if
that question has ever struckyou before of just what is the
(00:20):
difference between managementand leadership.
I'm going to talk about threedifferent styles of leadership
today that all can really bereflected in the leadership of
Jesus, so I feel like it comeson pretty good authority, not
just my opinion.
Today we're talking about threeeffective leadership styles for
youth ministry.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we
give you weekly tips andtactics to help you fast track
the growth and health of youryouth ministry.
My name is Jeff Laskola andthis lovely lady is oh thanks,
oh, thanks, kristen Laskola.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
And today we're talking about effective
leadership styles in youthministry and we're going to ask
the question which one are you?
And one thing I love about thechurch I work at is from early
on they always instilled in usthis distinction between little
(01:21):
L leader and a big L leader.
And little L leadership is muchmore like managerial, based of
just you're managing what isunder your care, you're keeping
things running, whereas big Lleaders develop systems, they
develop people, things arebetter because they were there,
so they maintain.
(01:42):
They don't maintain the statusquo, but they grow something, so
they maintain.
They don't maintain the statusquo, but they grow something.
They develop people andeverything we're going to talk
about today and you'll see whyfalls under that category of big
L leadership.
And that's the goal to be thatkind of leader that has moved
beyond management to actualleadership.
And I wonder if that questionhas ever struck you before of
(02:05):
just what is the differencebetween management and
leadership.
And when you step into trueleadership, you realize how much
you hate management and thatmanagement is so soul sucking.
I mean, that's how I feel.
I always tell my team pleasedon't turn me into a manager.
I don't want to do that.
That is where my ministry soulgoes to die, when I feel like
(02:28):
I'm managing your tasks, I'mmanaging your behavior, I'm
managing your schedule, andanytime I've had a partner in
ministry that I had to manage,it just did not go well.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Does that mean, like, a lot of hand-holding, a lot of
checking in?
Yeah, just like, if I don'tgive youholding a lot of
checking in.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
If I don't give you a list, you can't start your day.
If I don't check in, you're notdoing your tasks.
If I'm not helping you manageyour time, you won't finish
things on time, if I'm nottelling you, hey, it's three, 30
, you better get going.
I mean, I just shrivel and dieunder that.
And so really getting thepeople around you, not just
(03:07):
yourself, but getting the peoplearound you to move into that
big L leadership too, because,like Craig Groeschel says,
everything in our wake getsbetter.
Our ministry, our teams, ourmorale, the culture, the
(03:29):
creativity, the innovation.
Everything is better when theleaders are better, and we're
meant to be leaders, notmanagers.
So I'm going to talk aboutthree different styles of
leadership today that all canreally be reflected in the
leadership of Jesus.
So I feel like it comes onpretty good authority, not just
my opinion, but styles that hedefinitely showed throughout his
(03:51):
earthly ministry, and I'llunpack that a little bit.
So number one is called openhanded leadership, and it's
exactly what it sounds like.
You hold your leadership andyour authority with an open hand
, and here's what leaders areusually good at.
Is this big word delegation?
Right?
It's not a big word, but it'slike big in the sense that
(04:12):
everyone talks about it.
It's delegation, delegate,don't forget to delegate,
delegate you shouldn't be doingeverything.
Delegate, I agree.
Delegate.
However, what are youdelegating?
So like I think smallleadership, little L leadership
thinks I'm delegating.
So like I think smallleadership, little l leadership
thinks I'm delegating tasks toyou.
Well, I couldn't possibly getall this done.
So you, you know and, morespecifically, tasks they don't
(04:35):
want to do right, I was gonnasay is it stuff that you don't
want to do or you can't do?
Maybe because that could fitlike, say, I hate graphic design
and I'm really bad at it andCaleb, my guy's director, is
excellent at it.
Well, why not give it?
to him he's gonna love it and so, and in a sense, yes, that is
(04:58):
correct.
However, we are trying to thinkbeyond just tasks, because
that's not what makes peopleleaders right, that's what makes
them workers, and that's good.
We need people who can work, weall need to work, but the
challenge is to get beyond thatand actually give away some of
our authority and to give awayresponsibility.
(05:20):
And that word authority, Ithink, think, is really huge,
because when we put somebody incharge of something like a
system, a program, a project,really handing it off to them
and saying you have theauthority to make the decision
and this is something I train myinterns on early on when they
over ask me questions abouttheir own project, well, well,
(05:42):
should it start at six or seven,like own project, as in, should
it start at six or seven?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Like own project, as in they came up with the idea
for this project or a projectthat you gave them.
It could be either one.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So say I'm like, hey, you're in charge of planning
our next service project.
Here's a few parameters, butyou need to take the ball and
run with it.
And if they start saying, well,what should we eat, or who
should cater, or what timeshould it start, if they're over
asking me, then the I need tomake sure they understand the
authority of this project isyours and they might need the
(06:14):
boost for me to say I trust youto make these decisions.
I'm here to help, but I'm nothere to make all the decisions,
because that's authoritativehelp, but I'm not here to make
all the decisions because that'sauthoritative.
Like that's what authority is,is I'm.
I'm in charge of saying whathappens next.
I want you to sit in that seatand you decide what happens next
(06:35):
and I will help execute.
Yeah, what's my part, you know?
Oh, I can set up the tables.
I can, you know, but I'm notthe decision maker.
You've got to release that.
And so a lot of leaders arereally good at the delegation
process, but they aren't reallygood at handing authority over
to people.
Well, what's our next series?
I don't know.
What is it?
Well, what should we talk tothe kids about?
(06:56):
I don't know.
Develop it.
You know, one of my interns dida great job of this recently.
He came up with the series thatwe were going to do and he
planned out every week andoutlined it and we all just
signed up for the week we wantedto teach and he didn't really
ask any questions like well,what should we do?
What should we do first?
This or that was like I'm onboard with your plan.
(07:19):
You have the authority andthat's training people how to be
big L leaders, to trust theirleadership, and if it fails, or
a part of it fails, that's partof it too.
Like there has to be room andwe'll talk about that and more
in a little bit.
But there has to be room forwhat happens if we should have
(07:40):
started at seven instead of sixand you should have ordered more
dessert and you didn't.
Okay, well, let's talk aboutthat.
On the back end of like well,let's come up with a ratio.
If we have 50 people attendingsomething, a rule of thumb might
be this, you know, and youdon't leave people high and dry.
Like well, figure it out andfail, and flail around but,
(08:00):
however, you can't be with themin every detail.
There's some times where youjust are like you've got to
decide and I I really feel likethe image there of holding your
leadership with an open hand ishard for a lot of leaders
because they want to hoard theirauthority really.
(08:20):
And there's so many insecureleaders yeah, like everywhere,
like it's not just a churchproblem feel like somehow very
insecure people get intoleadership which you would think
would be so counterintuitive,but they're so afraid somebody's
going to take their job orusurp their authority or
(08:41):
outshine them, you know.
So this is an exercise in yourown humility and confidence and
grounding yourself of like, youknow, like I don't have to be
the guy, the girl, like oneverything.
Like yeah, I don't have to bethe show, somebody else can step
in and everything gets better.
(09:01):
I think when everyone feelsconfident to make a decision,
make a call, go for the playright and biblically, I really
see this in John 21, 17, whereJesus is restoring Peter and
he's like Peter, do you love me?
Yes, lord, I love you.
Peter, do you love me?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I love you, Peter.
Do you love me?
That's totally how he said ittoo.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Kind of feels like it sometimes.
I'm sure it wasn't, it was muchmore serious.
But then he said then feed mysheep.
Like he was putting the keysinto Peter's hand.
Like you are not perfect,however, I trust you to have
this authority like go take careof them.
And he didn't really tell himhow necessarily you know of like
(09:43):
here's the blueprint, likenumber one you're going to do
this, this and this.
He's like in that restorationprocess he was showing Peter, I
trust you Like, go and do it.
Like you've been with me longenough, you know how this works,
you've seen it done, you'vebeen deployed to do it.
Now go feed my sheep If youlove me.
(10:04):
This is what I'm putting inyour hands and I love that trust
that he shows and just sort ofhands it off to him and it's
pretty amazing really.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And to add to that, you did say you know, like Jesus
said.
You didn't say, but the theorywas you've been with me, you've
seen, you know you should beable to do it now on your own.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Same thing with your volunteers, leaders or, you know
, staff.
It wouldn't be like day one,welcome on.
Oh, that's actually number two.
Yes, okay.
Nevermind welcome on.
Oh, that's actually number two.
Yes, okay, never mind.
Well, no, because you're see,you get it, jeff and I don't
read the notes.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I was just thinking that.
Did you not read these?
I guess not okay.
So number two would be developand deploy bingo that is a like
what you were saying a clearjesus move, right.
So what did he spend most ofhis earthly ministry doing?
Developing and deploying hisdisciples for ministry so that
(11:02):
when we do get to John 21, 17,he can say now go feed my sheep.
But before that, in Matthew 10,jesus sends out the 12.
So they had been with him and hefinally is just like all right,
guys getting a pair, you know,group project time, get your
partner and you guys are goingto go do this, and he gives them
(11:23):
some.
He gives them like a fewinstructions that are actually
more scary than no instructions,because he's like don't take
money, don't take a change ofclothes, don't take.
And it's like oh, oh, my gosh,like we're really doing this
with just the clothes on ourback.
Here we go, and you know, andit was just a really cool
(11:46):
experience for them I heard areally great quote in a group
session the other day andsomeone said the best gift you
can give your church is leadersyou know, and that is what Jesus
was developing like leadersthat he was going to hand this
ministry off to.
So I guess a great question toask yourself is do you have a
track record?
Like it's interesting when youlook at different pastors and
(12:08):
you look and you're like howmany leaders have come out of
your ministry?
Especially when you've beenthere for 10, 15 years yeah, is
there anyone that you could havedeployed, like?
Is there someone that you coulddeploy to different ministry, a
different position, a differentchurch, even you know?
Is there anyone who, like, iftomorrow someone were to say we
(12:29):
are splitting junior high andhigh school, because I know a
lot of you are combined and doyou have any names for someone
who could do one or the other?
Do you have someone on yourstaff or what have you been
doing?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
have you been developing?
Do you even have someone onyour staff that can fill in if
you're sick or can't make it, oryou're on vacation, or if you
were on?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
a sabbatical.
Like are you imparting what youknow?
Like, basically, like the goalis like teach them everything
you know.
Like that's my goal all thetime with my upper staff.
Is like everything I know, youshould know everything I can do.
You do.
You might not do it exactly howI do it, but nonetheless you
(13:09):
know how to do it or where to goto find the answer, at least.
And and within this I thinkit's really important, in the
Jesus style, you know to putcharacter over competency every
single time.
So you know we are definitelythe ones who are going to
develop their skills, butputting people's character above
(13:31):
their competency when theydon't get it right at first.
Right, because there might needto be like some mercy here and
forgiveness and patience.
Just like Jesus when he had tokind of restore Peter and say
you had a big ministry fail, youkind of pretended you didn't
(13:51):
know me.
Like that hurt, let's fix this.
And he shows this, this mercyand forgiveness.
And we have to know that thestaff that we're training up
will fail.
There'll be a really badmessage, there'll be a really
botched game, there'll be areally disorganized event and
something will go wrong.
(14:12):
And how do we restore them backto all right, like we got to
get back up.
What did we learn?
How can we do this differentlyand it's not us necessarily
doing it for them every time,but like let's dissect this
problem in this process.
What, and you know, I hate that.
(14:33):
This is true, but one of thebest teachers is pain.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh, 100%.
So it's like A lot of timespeople won't move until the pain
is great enough.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And so when you have the pain of a failed like
embarrassing game that wasdisorganized or an event that
nobody knew about, so nobodyshowed up, because you didn't
communicate- it.
Like.
that's painful and most peoplewill learn very quickly from an
experience that they feel likethey let you down, they let the
(15:05):
ministry down, whatever.
So, all that to say, we're notsetting people up to fail.
However, if they do fail, it'sa pretty good teacher.
And how we restore them afterthat.
You know, I love looking tothat model of how Jesus talked
to Peter is like OK, you can dothis, and I'm restoring your
(15:28):
responsibility and the trust Ihave in you and the purpose that
you are originally called to.
So I love you know.
Like with the competency thing,where you know how I'm saying
like, put character overcompetency.
When Jesus deploys thedisciples and they go out to do
ministry, you know, and theycome back and they're talking to
(15:50):
Jesus and they're like oh mygosh, this is so cool, even the
demons obeyed us.
Like the demons, we cast themout.
And Jesus is like don't rejoicethat the demons listen to you,
rejoice that your names arewritten in heaven.
And I just love that moment oflike okay, like you did some
cool stuff, don't forget thegospel.
(16:11):
And I think that's such a coolmodel of ministry.
Like, no matter how many coolthings we do, like or you know
that our team has thesesuccesses and wow, and we had
this many kids come and this wasgreat and it's like cool, yeah,
great, let's keep doing greatministry, but don't forget, your
names are written in heavenLike it was the, the gospel, and
(16:33):
that's really the only thingwe're doing here, and that's
really the only thing thatmatters, like teaching them that
it's like the character of whowe are, that we are his, not
because 100 kids came towhatever like yeah, let's
celebrate a great night and hardwork.
I'm not saying like so don't be,happy about it, but well, and
(16:54):
the focus.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
What would I mean?
I?
I think nature would say, ifyou put on a perfectly planned
event, you know you'd be soexcited about it, you know,
executed perfectly, but maybe nokids grew in their faith, came
to know Jesus, or something likethat versus horribly planned, a
horribly executed event butfour kids got saved.
I think you know you obviouslywould celebrate that, but I
think the goal sometimes becomesthe perfectly executed event
but four kids got saved.
I think you know you, obviouslyyou would celebrate that, but I
(17:15):
think the goal sometimesbecomes the perfectly executed
event.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Sure, I fall into that all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And not so much.
What is the ultimate outcome ofthis?
It's the perfect cheer.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
SNL a while ago.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Oh, I know it now.
Oh yeah, trust me.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Okay, yeah, I agree, you know, sometimes we get so
focused on the ministry Likesomebody said it recently that
I'm like, yeah, it's like we'vebeen working at the burning bush
for so long.
We forget, like, what we'redoing there kind of thing is
like it's not holy groundanymore, kind of like we were
(17:53):
immune to the real task andwe're like let's just make this
thing awesome you know and youthministry world like oh, this
many kids came and then this kidbarfed up beans.
What?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
a success or whatever , and that's not to say you
don't put that effort in and tryto do your best and put on a
great event and all that stuff,but it's never losing sight of
the ultimate goal.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Right Of like.
What is the true celebration?
Yeah, that are our students,names written in heaven, are we?
And teaching your team?
That's the core of ministry, nomatter how many cool things we
do, that's the true victory.
You know, OK, I I think we getit All right.
And lastly, third is relationalleadership.
(18:39):
So obviously Jesus shows thisover and over and over again.
I love Matthew 20, 25 through26.
Jesus called them together andsaid you know that the rulers of
the Gentiles lorded over themand their high officials
exercise authority over them,not so with you.
Instead, whoever wants tobecome great among you must be
(19:01):
your servant.
I think relational ministry isprobably the most, or relational
leadership is probably the mostpowerful, and that's where
we're really trying to use ournot so much our title as
influence, like to be.
I mean, some people maybe carethat you're called a pastor or
director or whatever you'recalled at your church, or a
(19:23):
leader, but the whole point likethis is kind of a weird.
Fact is that sometimes we getall like wound up about the
title pastor and who has it andwho doesn't?
I know a little bit about that,but it's also interesting that
that word is not actually evenin the Bible.
Yeah, we can talk about eldersand deacons and whatever, but
(19:47):
the word shepherd is, and ifthat's what we're boiling
pastorship down to, like that isreally what it is Like.
Jesus kind of set it upperfectly to Peter, like feed my
sheep.
Who is the person who feedssheep?
It's a shepherd like shepherdmy people.
What does a shepherd do?
It's not like hey, listen up,sheep, you know he's a protector
(20:07):
, right, he lays down his lifefor them, he keeps them safe, he
cares for them, he feeds them.
You know your family is alwaystalking about lambing in ohio
and like how intense this workis is making sure the little
worms aren't on the lambs andfeeding them the right amount
with these bottles.
And like caring for sheep's abig deal.
(20:27):
It's not an authoritative role,it's a.
It's a an authoritative role.
It's a.
It's a caretaker role, becausesheep really cannot take care of
themselves.
Like they're very interestinganimal, like they need a lot of
human help and I I think thatsets up the pastor role
perfectly.
And sometimes we see that interms of our students.
(20:49):
Like yes, I am shepherding mystudents, my little flock, but
also we are teaching our, ourstaff, our leaders, our interns,
our small group leaders,whatever we are shepherding them
as well, we are their shepherd.
We can pastor them in therelational way of like, hey,
it's not like I'm up here andyou guys are down here because
(21:12):
I'm somehow in charge and youknow everyone listened to me and
my.
Not like I'm up here and youguys are down here because I'm
somehow in charge and everyonelistened to me and my ideas and
I'm the most important person inthe room.
Like Jesus is saying, we don'tlord it over them but we turn it
into sacrificial serving lifeon life.
And that's why ministry is hardis because there's no
(21:32):
separation sometimes between youyes, are my coworker, but also
my sheep.
I love you and I'm supposed tocare for you, and so those lines
get blurred and I just have notfigured out a way around that
so far.
Pastoral care can be difficult,but I think one thing jesus was
(21:54):
really good at is interactingwith his little disciple sheep
as individuals and not just aslike well, here's the team but
seeing each person individually,having words for each person
individually, having arelationship with each person so
it's not individually get yeahlike relationship, them and me,
(22:14):
right, it's like oh and, andit's individual for each person.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
You're, you're being intentional with them, not a
blanket statement, a blanketleadership where you all get the
same and and uh, yeah, I'm notmaking it, you know, and you
have to know that to you like.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
a perfect example is we did a leader, like two
interns and two directors, andwe met and we're like talking
about this next year of like,what do we want to do, what's
going well, what needs help,blah, blah, blah.
We met as a team and everyoneput their input.
And then I did performancereview, like meetings, sitting
down with each one individually,and I just went through here's
(22:51):
what you're so good at, andthose lists were very long and
then I said, hey, here's acouple of things you need to
work on, but at every singlemeeting, to be honest, the bulk
of the time was just talkingabout them and their life.
And hey, what are you doingright now that is giving you
life?
Like, what are you excitedabout?
What's a challenge for youright now?
(23:12):
Like and I wasn't asking itlike an interview, like that, it
was just we just had lunch andstarted chatting, like and they
would open up about, like here'swhere I'm struggling, or, man,
it's hard for me to trust God inthis area.
Or you know, and it was just socool to like get to just be
doing like friendship and lifewith them.
And I love like Jesus's modelof you know, that classic story
(23:35):
where they're in the upper roomand he's going to wash their
feet, and that sacrificial thing, like we should be the hardest
workers on our team.
Like when the series goes out,I usually let my team pick what
they want to teach on first andthen I'm like I'll take your
leftovers, like I'll figure outhow to teach on whatever, but
what do you feel passionateabout?
(23:55):
Take that and run with it, youknow.
Or when it comes to differentthings, I always like to let
them go first of like well, you,you choose, and then I'll do
what's left, you know, and justhanging in there to the end with
them of not because we have theauthority using it, but rather
coming alongside.
(24:15):
And it's just so interestingtoo.
I've been studying a lot of thelife of Jesus and I recently
did a talk on the temptation ofJesus in the wilderness and it's
so interesting and I neverreally thought about it this way
, but Jesus never, ever used hispower for his own benefit.
So every time we see Jesusexercising his when he easily
(24:37):
could have Exactly, and that'swhat Satan was saying of, like,
who's going to stop you?
Just get a snack you know, getoff the cross.
Go around the cross like avoidthe cross get the crown, who's
going to stop you?
And when you look at hisexercise of power or miracles or
whatever you're like, neveronce was it for his own comfort,
(25:00):
his own agenda, like I mean, hecould have done things very
differently.
Like I would have made afeather bed out in the
wilderness with an airconditioning unit and like sushi
on demand.
You know if I was him in thewilderness.
But we never like.
How much self-control does thattake when you have every
(25:25):
capability to end your ownsuffering?
I mean, and I'm talking evenbefore the cross- you know and
you don't.
Every time you used it it was toend someone else's suffering
and it was like that's kind ofmind-blowing and satan was kind
of taunting him with that oflike.
So, just like, turn thesestones into bread, or like,
(25:49):
throw yourself down, the angelswill come and get you and
everyone will be like, oh mygosh, he is god like you don't
have to do the whole cross thingprove in another way, you know,
and it was just like dang, andso I think taking a page out of
that book looks a lot like.
whose comfort are we seekinglike?
Are we seeking to comfort or becomforted?
Are we seeking to, you know,have the best position, the
(26:10):
biggest piece?
Because we've to, you know,have the best position, the
biggest piece, because we'veearned it, you know, and I think
that's so easy as the leader,to do Like I've earned it, so I
should sleep in this bed, or Ishould have this spot, or I
should get to choose first andyou guys serve me.
You know we would never say that, but do our actions indicate
that we feel that way of justlike all right minions you?
(26:33):
know, I got, I'm going to dowhat is in my best interest, and
then you people work around.
That you know, and I thinkpeople intuitively know what
kind of leader you are.
You know, and so I just loveJesus's like you know.
It's's so crazy.
Like one of our teachingpastors, Larry Osborne, says
(26:56):
this all the time like thegospel is like a diamond and
he's like it's the same diamond,but every time you turn it yeah
it.
You see a new aspect of it, justlike a diamond, like, oh, the
way the light hit this facet orthis groove or this part of it.
You see new aspects of it and Ifeel like you know, no matter
how long I'm a Christian, everytime I like start to study Jesus
(27:20):
, he shows me something new,like I did not know that, I did
not see, that you know.
And so, yeah, I love divinginto.
Like how did he treat people,how did he work alongside people
?
How did he show love, mercy,kindness to people?
And so, yeah, I don't.
I don't know if we can say whichstyle are you?
One, two or three?
(27:41):
Probably the best thing wouldbe to be a combination of them
all, because Jesus was all ofthose and more.
Again, it's not an exhaustivelist.
I always say that, but is therean area, maybe, or or one of
these oh yeah, I do that all thetime, no brainer and one of
these did it kind of give youthat like, huh, yeah, maybe I
(28:02):
need to change my mindset or mypattern on that one strong.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, we did an episode a while back you guys
should check out.
It is five leadership habits ofhighly effective and visionary
youth pastors.
I think it would pair well withwhat we talked about here.
Sweet, sweet, all right, we'regonna do a question of the day,
which?
Is what is, or who is, amisunderstood villain in cinema
history?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I think miranda, priestly from the devil, wears
Prada.
Have you ever seen that movie?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I, oh, I've seen parts of it.
Is she the lead lady?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, well, leading lady the head.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
She's the boss of the company.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Um it's uh Meryl street Meryl street, yes, and I
feel like she's the villain inthe movie.
But when you get a littleglimpse, like to her personal
life, it's like very sad and yourealize that she is trying to
feel important at work and kindof exactly the opposite of what
we're talking about today, likeusing her authority in the wrong
(29:06):
way to make people intimidatedand scared and pull all these
power moves so that she can feelpowerful in her position and
she makes everyone's lifehorrible.
But and very, everyone's scaredof her, but it's really coming
from a place of loneliness andinsecurity you know and, like
(29:29):
you, see this scene where she'slike home and it's like her
husband is gonna leave her andit's just a lonely life and it
makes you it's like compassion.
Why are you laughing?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
no, I just it's interesting.
Her character is verydislikable I know but yeah, I
could see where you get those.
I think I've only seen it onetime, but yeah, she's just like
kind of pretending the wholetime you know that's how I like
sensed it.
Maybe I'm thinking way too deepabout the devil wears prada,
but it's a random question, Iwould say joaquin phoenix's
character in gladiator commodusI thought you're gonna say joker
(30:03):
no, that would have been a goodone too.
Oh, I should change mine no,I'll stick with it, because I
feel like he I mean, ultimatelyhe ended up being a psycho
villain.
But I feel like a lot of it hadto do with how he was raised,
the lack of attention maybe hewas given by his father and then
all he wanted was to lead and Ithink, lead well, but he was
(30:26):
driven by pride and insecuritiesand it kind of just spiraled
out of control.
For him.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Wow, two bad leadership models.
That pairs really well withthis content.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
But in the comment section below there's a
misunderstood villain, and again, I'm not siding with Commodus,
he ended up being a total psycho, but just saying there could be
some.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's never.
We're not excusing it, it'sjust saying like, okay, like
you're broken, you feel for themfor a little bit yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
All right, this is the community comment of the day
.
This comes from Jana Williams,who said I've loved how you've
shared your personal experiencesin ministry, including both
mistakes and wins.
My favorite episode was on thefour phases of youth ministry.
It really helped put things inperspective for me.
Thanks for everything.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Oh, I liked that episode too.
Thanks for reminding me thefour phases of youth ministry.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, that was a great episode.
I love that one.
Make sure you guys check thatout and we thank you, Jana, for
your comment.
We thank you guys for watchingand listening and we'll see you
next time.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Today we're talking.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
No.
Next time.
Today we're talking no.
Welcome to the ministry coachpodcast where every week we give
you practical and and somethingelse I don't know what it is,
and the goal is to always bemoving toward big L, little
leadership, leadership,
Everyone wins.
When the leader gets better,everything in our wake gets
better Our ministry, our teams,our morale, the culture, the
creativity, the innovation.
Everything is better when theleaders are better.
And we're meant to be leaders,not managers, and I wonder if
that question has ever struckyou before of just what is the
(00:20):
difference between managementand leadership.
I'm going to talk about threedifferent styles of leadership
today that all can really bereflected in the leadership of
Jesus, so I feel like it comeson pretty good authority, not
just my opinion.
Today we're talking about threeeffective leadership styles for
youth ministry.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we
give you weekly tips andtactics to help you fast track
the growth and health of youryouth ministry.
My name is Jeff Laskola andthis lovely lady is oh thanks,
oh, thanks, kristen Laskola.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
And today we're talking about effective
leadership styles in youthministry and we're going to ask
the question which one are you?
And one thing I love about thechurch I work at is from early
on they always instilled in usthis distinction between little
(01:21):
L leader and a big L leader.
And little L leadership is muchmore like managerial, based of
just you're managing what isunder your care, you're keeping
things running, whereas big Lleaders develop systems, they
develop people, things arebetter because they were there,
so they maintain.
(01:42):
They don't maintain the statusquo, but they grow something, so
they maintain.
They don't maintain the statusquo, but they grow something.
They develop people andeverything we're going to talk
about today and you'll see whyfalls under that category of big
L leadership.
And that's the goal to be thatkind of leader that has moved
beyond management to actualleadership.
And I wonder if that questionhas ever struck you before of
(02:05):
just what is the differencebetween management and
leadership.
And when you step into trueleadership, you realize how much
you hate management and thatmanagement is so soul sucking.
I mean, that's how I feel.
I always tell my team pleasedon't turn me into a manager.
I don't want to do that.
That is where my ministry soulgoes to die, when I feel like
(02:28):
I'm managing your tasks, I'mmanaging your behavior, I'm
managing your schedule, andanytime I've had a partner in
ministry that I had to manage,it just did not go well.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Does that mean, like, a lot of hand-holding, a lot of
checking in?
Yeah, just like, if I don'tgive youholding a lot of
checking in.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
If I don't give you a list, you can't start your day.
If I don't check in, you're notdoing your tasks.
If I'm not helping you manageyour time, you won't finish
things on time, if I'm nottelling you, hey, it's three, 30
, you better get going.
I mean, I just shrivel and dieunder that.
And so really getting thepeople around you, not just
(03:07):
yourself, but getting the peoplearound you to move into that
big L leadership too, because,like Craig Groeschel says,
everything in our wake getsbetter.
Our ministry, our teams, ourmorale, the culture, the
(03:29):
creativity, the innovation.
Everything is better when theleaders are better, and we're
meant to be leaders, notmanagers.
So I'm going to talk aboutthree different styles of
leadership today that all canreally be reflected in the
leadership of Jesus.
So I feel like it comes onpretty good authority, not just
my opinion, but styles that hedefinitely showed throughout his
(03:51):
earthly ministry, and I'llunpack that a little bit.
So number one is called openhanded leadership, and it's
exactly what it sounds like.
You hold your leadership andyour authority with an open hand
, and here's what leaders areusually good at.
Is this big word delegation?
Right?
It's not a big word, but it'slike big in the sense that
(04:12):
everyone talks about it.
It's delegation, delegate,don't forget to delegate,
delegate you shouldn't be doingeverything.
Delegate, I agree.
Delegate.
However, what are youdelegating?
So like I think smallleadership, little L leadership
thinks I'm delegating.
So like I think smallleadership, little l leadership
thinks I'm delegating tasks toyou.
Well, I couldn't possibly getall this done.
So you, you know and, morespecifically, tasks they don't
(04:35):
want to do right, I was gonnasay is it stuff that you don't
want to do or you can't do?
Maybe because that could fitlike, say, I hate graphic design
and I'm really bad at it andCaleb, my guy's director, is
excellent at it.
Well, why not give it?
to him he's gonna love it and so, and in a sense, yes, that is
(04:58):
correct.
However, we are trying to thinkbeyond just tasks, because
that's not what makes peopleleaders right, that's what makes
them workers, and that's good.
We need people who can work, weall need to work, but the
challenge is to get beyond thatand actually give away some of
our authority and to give awayresponsibility.
(05:20):
And that word authority, Ithink, think, is really huge,
because when we put somebody incharge of something like a
system, a program, a project,really handing it off to them
and saying you have theauthority to make the decision
and this is something I train myinterns on early on when they
over ask me questions abouttheir own project, well, well,
(05:42):
should it start at six or seven,like own project, as in, should
it start at six or seven?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Like own project, as in they came up with the idea
for this project or a projectthat you gave them.
It could be either one.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So say I'm like, hey, you're in charge of planning
our next service project.
Here's a few parameters, butyou need to take the ball and
run with it.
And if they start saying, well,what should we eat, or who
should cater, or what timeshould it start, if they're over
asking me, then the I need tomake sure they understand the
authority of this project isyours and they might need the
(06:14):
boost for me to say I trust youto make these decisions.
I'm here to help, but I'm nothere to make all the decisions,
because that's authoritativehelp, but I'm not here to make
all the decisions because that'sauthoritative.
Like that's what authority is,is I'm.
I'm in charge of saying whathappens next.
I want you to sit in that seatand you decide what happens next
(06:35):
and I will help execute.
Yeah, what's my part, you know?
Oh, I can set up the tables.
I can, you know, but I'm notthe decision maker.
You've got to release that.
And so a lot of leaders arereally good at the delegation
process, but they aren't reallygood at handing authority over
to people.
Well, what's our next series?
I don't know.
What is it?
Well, what should we talk tothe kids about?
(06:56):
I don't know.
Develop it.
You know, one of my interns dida great job of this recently.
He came up with the series thatwe were going to do and he
planned out every week andoutlined it and we all just
signed up for the week we wantedto teach and he didn't really
ask any questions like well,what should we do?
What should we do first?
This or that was like I'm onboard with your plan.
(07:19):
You have the authority andthat's training people how to be
big L leaders, to trust theirleadership, and if it fails, or
a part of it fails, that's partof it too.
Like there has to be room andwe'll talk about that and more
in a little bit.
But there has to be room forwhat happens if we should have
(07:40):
started at seven instead of sixand you should have ordered more
dessert and you didn't.
Okay, well, let's talk aboutthat.
On the back end of like well,let's come up with a ratio.
If we have 50 people attendingsomething, a rule of thumb might
be this, you know, and youdon't leave people high and dry.
Like well, figure it out andfail, and flail around but,
(08:00):
however, you can't be with themin every detail.
There's some times where youjust are like you've got to
decide and I I really feel likethe image there of holding your
leadership with an open hand ishard for a lot of leaders
because they want to hoard theirauthority really.
(08:20):
And there's so many insecureleaders yeah, like everywhere,
like it's not just a churchproblem feel like somehow very
insecure people get intoleadership which you would think
would be so counterintuitive,but they're so afraid somebody's
going to take their job orusurp their authority or
(08:41):
outshine them, you know.
So this is an exercise in yourown humility and confidence and
grounding yourself of like, youknow, like I don't have to be
the guy, the girl, like oneverything.
Like yeah, I don't have to bethe show, somebody else can step
in and everything gets better.
(09:01):
I think when everyone feelsconfident to make a decision,
make a call, go for the playright and biblically, I really
see this in John 21, 17, whereJesus is restoring Peter and
he's like Peter, do you love me?
Yes, lord, I love you.
Peter, do you love me?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I love you, Peter.
Do you love me?
That's totally how he said ittoo.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Kind of feels like it sometimes.
I'm sure it wasn't, it was muchmore serious.
But then he said then feed mysheep.
Like he was putting the keysinto Peter's hand.
Like you are not perfect,however, I trust you to have
this authority like go take careof them.
And he didn't really tell himhow necessarily you know of like
(09:43):
here's the blueprint, likenumber one you're going to do
this, this and this.
He's like in that restorationprocess he was showing Peter, I
trust you Like, go and do it.
Like you've been with me longenough, you know how this works,
you've seen it done, you'vebeen deployed to do it.
Now go feed my sheep If youlove me.
(10:04):
This is what I'm putting inyour hands and I love that trust
that he shows and just sort ofhands it off to him and it's
pretty amazing really.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And to add to that, you did say you know, like Jesus
said.
You didn't say, but the theorywas you've been with me, you've
seen, you know you should beable to do it now on your own.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Same thing with your volunteers, leaders or, you know
, staff.
It wouldn't be like day one,welcome on.
Oh, that's actually number two.
Yes, okay.
Nevermind welcome on.
Oh, that's actually number two.
Yes, okay, never mind.
Well, no, because you're see,you get it, jeff and I don't
read the notes.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I was just thinking that.
Did you not read these?
I guess not okay.
So number two would be developand deploy bingo that is a like
what you were saying a clearjesus move, right.
So what did he spend most ofhis earthly ministry doing?
Developing and deploying hisdisciples for ministry so that
(11:02):
when we do get to John 21, 17,he can say now go feed my sheep.
But before that, in Matthew 10,jesus sends out the 12.
So they had been with him and hefinally is just like all right,
guys getting a pair, you know,group project time, get your
partner and you guys are goingto go do this, and he gives them
(11:23):
some.
He gives them like a fewinstructions that are actually
more scary than no instructions,because he's like don't take
money, don't take a change ofclothes, don't take.
And it's like oh, oh, my gosh,like we're really doing this
with just the clothes on ourback.
Here we go, and you know, andit was just a really cool
(11:46):
experience for them I heard areally great quote in a group
session the other day andsomeone said the best gift you
can give your church is leadersyou know, and that is what Jesus
was developing like leadersthat he was going to hand this
ministry off to.
So I guess a great question toask yourself is do you have a
track record?
Like it's interesting when youlook at different pastors and
(12:08):
you look and you're like howmany leaders have come out of
your ministry?
Especially when you've beenthere for 10, 15 years yeah, is
there anyone that you could havedeployed, like?
Is there someone that you coulddeploy to different ministry, a
different position, a differentchurch, even you know?
Is there anyone who, like, iftomorrow someone were to say we
(12:29):
are splitting junior high andhigh school, because I know a
lot of you are combined and doyou have any names for someone
who could do one or the other?
Do you have someone on yourstaff or what have you been
doing?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
have you been developing?
Do you even have someone onyour staff that can fill in if
you're sick or can't make it, oryou're on vacation, or if you
were on?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
a sabbatical.
Like are you imparting what youknow?
Like, basically, like the goalis like teach them everything
you know.
Like that's my goal all thetime with my upper staff.
Is like everything I know, youshould know everything I can do.
You do.
You might not do it exactly howI do it, but nonetheless you
(13:09):
know how to do it or where to goto find the answer, at least.
And and within this I thinkit's really important, in the
Jesus style, you know to putcharacter over competency every
single time.
So you know we are definitelythe ones who are going to
develop their skills, butputting people's character above
(13:31):
their competency when theydon't get it right at first.
Right, because there might needto be like some mercy here and
forgiveness and patience.
Just like Jesus when he had tokind of restore Peter and say
you had a big ministry fail, youkind of pretended you didn't
(13:51):
know me.
Like that hurt, let's fix this.
And he shows this, this mercyand forgiveness.
And we have to know that thestaff that we're training up
will fail.
There'll be a really badmessage, there'll be a really
botched game, there'll be areally disorganized event and
something will go wrong.
(14:12):
And how do we restore them backto all right, like we got to
get back up.
What did we learn?
How can we do this differentlyand it's not us necessarily
doing it for them every time,but like let's dissect this
problem in this process.
What, and you know, I hate that.
(14:33):
This is true, but one of thebest teachers is pain.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh, 100%.
So it's like A lot of timespeople won't move until the pain
is great enough.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And so when you have the pain of a failed like
embarrassing game that wasdisorganized or an event that
nobody knew about, so nobodyshowed up, because you didn't
communicate- it.
Like.
that's painful and most peoplewill learn very quickly from an
experience that they feel likethey let you down, they let the
(15:05):
ministry down, whatever.
So, all that to say, we're notsetting people up to fail.
However, if they do fail, it'sa pretty good teacher.
And how we restore them afterthat.
You know, I love looking tothat model of how Jesus talked
to Peter is like OK, you can dothis, and I'm restoring your
(15:28):
responsibility and the trust Ihave in you and the purpose that
you are originally called to.
So I love you know.
Like with the competency thing,where you know how I'm saying
like, put character overcompetency.
When Jesus deploys thedisciples and they go out to do
ministry, you know, and theycome back and they're talking to
(15:50):
Jesus and they're like oh mygosh, this is so cool, even the
demons obeyed us.
Like the demons, we cast themout.
And Jesus is like don't rejoicethat the demons listen to you,
rejoice that your names arewritten in heaven.
And I just love that moment oflike okay, like you did some
cool stuff, don't forget thegospel.
(16:11):
And I think that's such a coolmodel of ministry.
Like, no matter how many coolthings we do, like or you know
that our team has thesesuccesses and wow, and we had
this many kids come and this wasgreat and it's like cool, yeah,
great, let's keep doing greatministry, but don't forget, your
names are written in heavenLike it was the, the gospel, and
(16:33):
that's really the only thingwe're doing here, and that's
really the only thing thatmatters, like teaching them that
it's like the character of whowe are, that we are his, not
because 100 kids came towhatever like yeah, let's
celebrate a great night and hardwork.
I'm not saying like so don't be,happy about it, but well, and
(16:54):
the focus.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
What would I mean?
I?
I think nature would say, ifyou put on a perfectly planned
event, you know you'd be soexcited about it, you know,
executed perfectly, but maybe nokids grew in their faith, came
to know Jesus, or something likethat versus horribly planned, a
horribly executed event butfour kids got saved.
I think you know you obviouslywould celebrate that, but I
think the goal sometimes becomesthe perfectly executed event
but four kids got saved.
I think you know you, obviouslyyou would celebrate that, but I
(17:15):
think the goal sometimesbecomes the perfectly executed
event.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Sure, I fall into that all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And not so much.
What is the ultimate outcome ofthis?
It's the perfect cheer.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
SNL a while ago.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Oh, I know it now.
Oh yeah, trust me.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Okay, yeah, I agree, you know, sometimes we get so
focused on the ministry Likesomebody said it recently that
I'm like, yeah, it's like we'vebeen working at the burning bush
for so long.
We forget, like, what we'redoing there kind of thing is
like it's not holy groundanymore, kind of like we were
(17:53):
immune to the real task andwe're like let's just make this
thing awesome you know and youthministry world like oh, this
many kids came and then this kidbarfed up beans.
What?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
a success or whatever , and that's not to say you
don't put that effort in and tryto do your best and put on a
great event and all that stuff,but it's never losing sight of
the ultimate goal.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Right Of like.
What is the true celebration?
Yeah, that are our students,names written in heaven, are we?
And teaching your team?
That's the core of ministry, nomatter how many cool things we
do, that's the true victory.
You know, OK, I I think we getit All right.
And lastly, third is relationalleadership.
(18:39):
So obviously Jesus shows thisover and over and over again.
I love Matthew 20, 25 through26.
Jesus called them together andsaid you know that the rulers of
the Gentiles lorded over themand their high officials
exercise authority over them,not so with you.
Instead, whoever wants tobecome great among you must be
(19:01):
your servant.
I think relational ministry isprobably the most, or relational
leadership is probably the mostpowerful, and that's where
we're really trying to use ournot so much our title as
influence, like to be.
I mean, some people maybe carethat you're called a pastor or
director or whatever you'recalled at your church, or a
(19:23):
leader, but the whole point likethis is kind of a weird.
Fact is that sometimes we getall like wound up about the
title pastor and who has it andwho doesn't?
I know a little bit about that,but it's also interesting that
that word is not actually evenin the Bible.
Yeah, we can talk about eldersand deacons and whatever, but
(19:47):
the word shepherd is, and ifthat's what we're boiling
pastorship down to, like that isreally what it is Like.
Jesus kind of set it upperfectly to Peter, like feed my
sheep.
Who is the person who feedssheep?
It's a shepherd like shepherdmy people.
What does a shepherd do?
It's not like hey, listen up,sheep, you know he's a protector
(20:07):
, right, he lays down his lifefor them, he keeps them safe, he
cares for them, he feeds them.
You know your family is alwaystalking about lambing in ohio
and like how intense this workis is making sure the little
worms aren't on the lambs andfeeding them the right amount
with these bottles.
And like caring for sheep's abig deal.
(20:27):
It's not an authoritative role,it's a.
It's a an authoritative role.
It's a.
It's a caretaker role, becausesheep really cannot take care of
themselves.
Like they're very interestinganimal, like they need a lot of
human help and I I think thatsets up the pastor role
perfectly.
And sometimes we see that interms of our students.
(20:49):
Like yes, I am shepherding mystudents, my little flock, but
also we are teaching our, ourstaff, our leaders, our interns,
our small group leaders,whatever we are shepherding them
as well, we are their shepherd.
We can pastor them in therelational way of like, hey,
it's not like I'm up here andyou guys are down here because
(21:12):
I'm somehow in charge and youknow everyone listened to me and
my.
Not like I'm up here and youguys are down here because I'm
somehow in charge and everyonelistened to me and my ideas and
I'm the most important person inthe room.
Like Jesus is saying, we don'tlord it over them but we turn it
into sacrificial serving lifeon life.
And that's why ministry is hardis because there's no
(21:32):
separation sometimes between youyes, are my coworker, but also
my sheep.
I love you and I'm supposed tocare for you, and so those lines
get blurred and I just have notfigured out a way around that
so far.
Pastoral care can be difficult,but I think one thing jesus was
(21:54):
really good at is interactingwith his little disciple sheep
as individuals and not just aslike well, here's the team but
seeing each person individually,having words for each person
individually, having arelationship with each person so
it's not individually get yeahlike relationship, them and me,
(22:14):
right, it's like oh and, andit's individual for each person.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
You're, you're being intentional with them, not a
blanket statement, a blanketleadership where you all get the
same and and uh, yeah, I'm notmaking it, you know, and you
have to know that to you like.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
a perfect example is we did a leader, like two
interns and two directors, andwe met and we're like talking
about this next year of like,what do we want to do, what's
going well, what needs help,blah, blah, blah.
We met as a team and everyoneput their input.
And then I did performancereview, like meetings, sitting
down with each one individually,and I just went through here's
(22:51):
what you're so good at, andthose lists were very long and
then I said, hey, here's acouple of things you need to
work on, but at every singlemeeting, to be honest, the bulk
of the time was just talkingabout them and their life.
And hey, what are you doingright now that is giving you
life?
Like, what are you excitedabout?
What's a challenge for youright now?
(23:12):
Like and I wasn't asking itlike an interview, like that, it
was just we just had lunch andstarted chatting, like and they
would open up about, like here'swhere I'm struggling, or, man,
it's hard for me to trust God inthis area.
Or you know, and it was just socool to like get to just be
doing like friendship and lifewith them.
And I love like Jesus's modelof you know, that classic story
(23:35):
where they're in the upper roomand he's going to wash their
feet, and that sacrificial thing, like we should be the hardest
workers on our team.
Like when the series goes out,I usually let my team pick what
they want to teach on first andthen I'm like I'll take your
leftovers, like I'll figure outhow to teach on whatever, but
what do you feel passionateabout?
(23:55):
Take that and run with it, youknow.
Or when it comes to differentthings, I always like to let
them go first of like well, you,you choose, and then I'll do
what's left, you know, and justhanging in there to the end with
them of not because we have theauthority using it, but rather
coming alongside.
(24:15):
And it's just so interestingtoo.
I've been studying a lot of thelife of Jesus and I recently
did a talk on the temptation ofJesus in the wilderness and it's
so interesting and I neverreally thought about it this way
, but Jesus never, ever used hispower for his own benefit.
So every time we see Jesusexercising his when he easily
(24:37):
could have Exactly, and that'swhat Satan was saying of, like,
who's going to stop you?
Just get a snack you know, getoff the cross.
Go around the cross like avoidthe cross get the crown, who's
going to stop you?
And when you look at hisexercise of power or miracles or
whatever you're like, neveronce was it for his own comfort,
(25:00):
his own agenda, like I mean, hecould have done things very
differently.
Like I would have made afeather bed out in the
wilderness with an airconditioning unit and like sushi
on demand.
You know if I was him in thewilderness.
But we never like.
How much self-control does thattake when you have every
(25:25):
capability to end your ownsuffering?
I mean, and I'm talking evenbefore the cross- you know and
you don't.
Every time you used it it was toend someone else's suffering
and it was like that's kind ofmind-blowing and satan was kind
of taunting him with that oflike.
So, just like, turn thesestones into bread, or like,
(25:49):
throw yourself down, the angelswill come and get you and
everyone will be like, oh mygosh, he is god like you don't
have to do the whole cross thingprove in another way, you know,
and it was just like dang, andso I think taking a page out of
that book looks a lot like.
whose comfort are we seekinglike?
Are we seeking to comfort or becomforted?
Are we seeking to, you know,have the best position, the
(26:10):
biggest piece?
Because we've to, you know,have the best position, the
biggest piece, because we'veearned it, you know, and I think
that's so easy as the leader,to do Like I've earned it, so I
should sleep in this bed, or Ishould have this spot, or I
should get to choose first andyou guys serve me.
You know we would never say that, but do our actions indicate
that we feel that way of justlike all right minions you?
(26:33):
know, I got, I'm going to dowhat is in my best interest, and
then you people work around.
That you know, and I thinkpeople intuitively know what
kind of leader you are.
You know, and so I just loveJesus's like you know.
It's's so crazy.
Like one of our teachingpastors, Larry Osborne, says
(26:56):
this all the time like thegospel is like a diamond and
he's like it's the same diamond,but every time you turn it yeah
it.
You see a new aspect of it, justlike a diamond, like, oh, the
way the light hit this facet orthis groove or this part of it.
You see new aspects of it and Ifeel like you know, no matter
how long I'm a Christian, everytime I like start to study Jesus
(27:20):
, he shows me something new,like I did not know that, I did
not see, that you know.
And so, yeah, I love divinginto.
Like how did he treat people,how did he work alongside people
?
How did he show love, mercy,kindness to people?
And so, yeah, I don't.
I don't know if we can say whichstyle are you?
One, two or three?
(27:41):
Probably the best thing wouldbe to be a combination of them
all, because Jesus was all ofthose and more.
Again, it's not an exhaustivelist.
I always say that, but is therean area, maybe, or or one of
these oh yeah, I do that all thetime, no brainer and one of
these did it kind of give youthat like, huh, yeah, maybe I
(28:02):
need to change my mindset or mypattern on that one strong.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, we did an episode a while back you guys
should check out.
It is five leadership habits ofhighly effective and visionary
youth pastors.
I think it would pair well withwhat we talked about here.
Sweet, sweet, all right, we'regonna do a question of the day,
which?
Is what is, or who is, amisunderstood villain in cinema
history?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I think miranda, priestly from the devil, wears
Prada.
Have you ever seen that movie?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I, oh, I've seen parts of it.
Is she the lead lady?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, well, leading lady the head.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
She's the boss of the company.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Um it's uh Meryl street Meryl street, yes, and I
feel like she's the villain inthe movie.
But when you get a littleglimpse, like to her personal
life, it's like very sad and yourealize that she is trying to
feel important at work and kindof exactly the opposite of what
we're talking about today, likeusing her authority in the wrong
(29:06):
way to make people intimidatedand scared and pull all these
power moves so that she can feelpowerful in her position and
she makes everyone's lifehorrible.
But and very, everyone's scaredof her, but it's really coming
from a place of loneliness andinsecurity you know and, like
(29:29):
you, see this scene where she'slike home and it's like her
husband is gonna leave her andit's just a lonely life and it
makes you it's like compassion.
Why are you laughing?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
no, I just it's interesting.
Her character is verydislikable I know but yeah, I
could see where you get those.
I think I've only seen it onetime, but yeah, she's just like
kind of pretending the wholetime you know that's how I like
sensed it.
Maybe I'm thinking way too deepabout the devil wears prada,
but it's a random question, Iwould say joaquin phoenix's
character in gladiator commodusI thought you're gonna say joker
(30:03):
no, that would have been a goodone too.
Oh, I should change mine no,I'll stick with it, because I
feel like he I mean, ultimatelyhe ended up being a psycho
villain.
But I feel like a lot of it hadto do with how he was raised,
the lack of attention maybe hewas given by his father and then
all he wanted was to lead and Ithink, lead well, but he was
(30:26):
driven by pride and insecuritiesand it kind of just spiraled
out of control.
For him.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Wow, two bad leadership models.
That pairs really well withthis content.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
But in the comment section below there's a
misunderstood villain, and again, I'm not siding with Commodus,
he ended up being a total psycho, but just saying there could be
some.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's never.
We're not excusing it, it'sjust saying like, okay, like
you're broken, you feel for themfor a little bit yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
All right, this is the community comment of the day
.
This comes from Jana Williams,who said I've loved how you've
shared your personal experiencesin ministry, including both
mistakes and wins.
My favorite episode was on thefour phases of youth ministry.
It really helped put things inperspective for me.
Thanks for everything.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Oh, I liked that episode too.
Thanks for reminding me thefour phases of youth ministry.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, that was a great episode.
I love that one.
Make sure you guys check thatout and we thank you, Jana, for
your comment.
We thank you guys for watchingand listening and we'll see you
next time.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Today we're talking.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
No.
Next time.
Today we're talking no.
Welcome to the ministry coachpodcast where every week we give
you practical and and somethingelse I don't know what it is,
and the goal is to always bemoving toward big L, little
leadership, leadership,
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