October 9, 2025 • 39 mins
Now is the time to grow a healthy, thriving youth ministry...if you'd like to work with us, check out GrowYourYouthMinistry.com *** Are you trying to keep your students engaged during small groups in your youth ministry? Small groups are one of the best models for discipleship in student ministry, but what do you do when you can't keep them engaged? In this episode, we give a ton of practical tips on how to keep students listening and sharing during small group time at your youth group.
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You may also enjoy these episodes:
(#066) Writing Effective Talk Sheets for Small Group Time in Youth Ministry
(#064) What's the BIG DEAL About SMALL GROUPS in Youth Ministry?
(#052) Small Group Leader Training for Youth Ministry
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
You should do the least amount of talking.
You ask good questions, you setthe tone, you get them moving
toward the direction they needto move, but you're not
lecturing.
The last thing you want is afrustrated leader.
They really did not sign up fordiscipline.
They signed up for discipleship.
Today we're talking about thebest practices of how to keep
your students engaged duringsmall groups in youth ministry.
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we
give you weekly tips and tacticsto help you fast-track the
growth and health of your youthministry.
If this is the first time we'remeeting, my name is Jeff
Lascola, and this is KristenLascola.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
And today we're going to answer the question:
how to keep students engaged andlistening during your small
group time.
We've said it before, we'll sayit again.
If you're like what smallgroups, push boss, go launch
small groups, then come back.
Then come back and finish.
Because that is like the onlyway I can think to have a like
(01:08):
consistent discipleship model inyouth ministry.
And so here's the thing,especially if you work with
junior hires like me, we knowthat small groups can sometimes
feel less than life-giving andless than productive.
You were a small group leaderfor a while.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
It's Thunderdome.
Yeah.
No rules.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Sounds like a leadership problem to me.
Definitely was.
SPEAKER_02 (01:31):
And that's why I asked for that leader to step
down.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
I asked myself one day, never turn back.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
Is this really worth it?
It is not.
Leave.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Uh, it is.
Don't listen to Jeff.
It is worth it.
And I know like it can be afrustrating half hour, 45
minutes.
So if you are doing high schoolsmall groups, I think high
schoolers can go a littlelonger.
In fact, they need to go alittle longer.
They should be able to, likeprobably 45 to 50 minutes is
(02:01):
great for a high school smallgroup.
You know your group best.
So this is not like I did notwrite this in stone.
It's not a law.
Do whatever you want.
Junior high, I feel like a halfhour to 40 minutes is probably
good.
You know, sometimes, dependingon the group, they can go way
longer and it be healthy andproductive.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Or boys versus girls.
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
I was gonna say, and I try to keep it to around 30
minutes to like put our malesmall group leaders out of their
misery some some weeks.
I and it has to be uniform.
I can't be like, all right, youguys can go 45, you guys go, you
know, it's like part of theprogram.
So you have to pick a time.
But yeah, so I the the reason Ibring that up is because I guess
(02:44):
it's not just common knowledge.
Like I've had youth pastorsreach out before with small
group qu questions and they'dsay, you know, like we spent
about 15 minutes in smallgroups.
I'm like, oh wow, okay, well,that could solve your problem.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
You haven't even gone through all the farts yet.
SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
I know we're still saying six, seven, we're still
farting, we're still, you know,like putting our trash in the
trash can because you know, weall fighting over a chair.
Totally.
So yeah, I think 30 minutesminimum, 40 to 45 maximum, and
then high school 45 to an hour,you know, the girls might want
(03:23):
to go that long.
Uh, you know, and I don't meanto paint with a broad brush.
Girls just in my experience tendto want to talk more and longer.
And boys are ready to, you know,burn some energy after a little
while, which is totally fine.
So we're gonna talk about okay,if we're going to do small
groups, which we are, that is anon-negotiable.
(03:45):
How do we make them the bestthat they can possibly be?
Because they can be frustrating.
It can be really, really hard toget students of any age or
gender to listen or focus.
Some of our girls' small groupsare giggly and like warty.
Yes, you you know who you are.
(04:06):
Very farty.
Um, you know, and it's it's notjust the boys, you know.
We have some girls small groupsthat like the leaders are like,
oh, that was really a struggle.
So today we're gonna talk aboutjust some practical tips.
And we're gonna go through alot, and I'm gonna try to do
them quickly because I didsomething a little different for
(04:27):
this episode.
My research is, you know, it'spartly from myself and my
experience.
I have been a small group leaderfor many, many years.
I'm currently not, so that I canhelp my small group leaders
specifically with discipline.
But some of this is from me.
But then what I did is I sentout a message to my small group
(04:47):
leaders asking them thisquestion to see what they would
say.
And it's interesting, there'ssome common threads, but I it
made me realize every group ofkids is so different and what
they need and what works forthem.
And every small group leader,you know, as they wrote me this
afternoon an answer to thisquestion, you realize that they
(05:09):
are kind of the expert of theirsmall group and they have a very
specific leadership style, andthey've tried to figure out
where those two meet and wherethey have found success.
So it's gonna feel like wow,like maybe you can grasp at one
of these and see if it works foryour small groups.
So I started off by asking um mygirls director slash admin
(05:33):
Arden.
I was asking her at churchtoday, and she said, set clear
boundaries, rules, andexpectations for the group.
And I put in parentheses, youmight have to do that every
single time.
Like it's not just like, well,remember that at the very
beginning of the year when wetalked about expectations.
You might have to review thatevery single time, especially
(05:55):
with the younger ones, just tobe like, hey guys, here's what
this time is, here's what thistime isn't for the next 30
minutes.
We're going to study the Bible.
I want to hear from all of you.
We're here to learn from theBible, learn from each other,
discuss, wrestle through things,pray for each other.
I need you on board with thatmission and vision.
(06:16):
If I sense that you are not onboard with that mission and
vision, we're gonna have to comeup with a solution for you
because this time is tooimportant to be a throwaway.
So I added more than what shesaid, but it's like that
boundaries and goals andexpectations, kind of that like
state of the union before youstart.
(06:37):
Another idea Arden has was, andI used to do this as a small
group leader, offer rewardstowards goals.
So if you have a goal for yourentire small group to bring
their Bible, say if every singlegirl brings their Bible for
three weeks in a row, I'll bringpizza for our group.
Or you can give them more of animmediate reward.
(06:58):
Every kid who brings their Biblegets a piece of candy.
I like to give candy for kidswho answered, like raised their
hand, answered, and participatedin the right way.
You know, that helped them stayfocused and motivated, whatever
it takes.
She said, bring in activitiesthat they want to do or look
forward to do in order to stayengaged.
(07:20):
And one of her examples washighs and lows.
She says the girls always reallylook forward to saying highs and
lows for the week.
I would recommend timing that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
Yeah, give you a cap of time.
SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
Totally.
And because some of the boyschimed in on that, then they're
like, we just pray we can getthrough highs and lows.
And I'm like, yeah, I can sensethat because students really do
like to talk about themselves.
And it might have to be likeeveryone gets 30 seconds, here's
my phone timer, ready go.
When I was a small group leader,I used to do that.
(07:53):
I I wanted to hear fromeveryone, but it could turn into
a big long story that this kindof forced them to cut out any
unnecessary details and get tothe point because there's way
more stuff to do.
Or for the boys, if they don'twant to do highs and lows, if
there was some like quick littleget to know you game, or maybe
(08:13):
not a runaround game, because Ithink it'd be really tough to
like center their energy backin.
But like, you know, the gamewhere you put the card on your
head and they have to guess whatit is, if you could make it
relevant to your small group,you know, or something like
that.
But yeah, just something to kindof break the ice, kind of like
get their little wiggles out,you know, and kind of start on
(08:37):
like a like a positive note, youknow, not like, all right,
listen up, guys.
This is, you know, because thatdoesn't really what we're trying
to do is inspire fellowship,inspire conversation, inspire
community.
So it's always this like line oftension between being overly
(08:58):
strict and overly permissive,because what you would want is
that you don't have to be thebad guy and they all just share
and focus and participate, andwe had a good old time.
Now that usually happens with mystudent leadership girls.
We had a great discussion onFriday, and it was just like on
fire, you know, that's notalways the case.
(09:19):
And that was like utopia as asmall group leader, what we hope
for.
But yeah, that tension of like,I do need to be like one of my
leaders, Vaughn, said, like,sometimes you do have to get
strict with them and like make aboundary.
And I always tell the leaderslike, if you are having a
problem with boundaries andthey're not respecting you, it
(09:39):
is not outside the realm ofpossibility to send a kid out.
The the And that's where youcome in.
That's where I come in.
And the key is or the two-leadersystem.
One leader can stay with thegroup and one leader can take a
kid out in the hallway and talkto him.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Beat the heck out of him and talk to him.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
And I and I'm glad you bring that up because my
goal is always to be respectfuland kind.
So I'm never out in the hallwayyelling at a kid.
What I'm usually saying is, hey,I don't know if you forgot the
purpose of small groups, but youhave a small group leader who
came tonight for free becausethey love this and they're
(10:19):
excited to get you guys tounderstand more of who God is.
And imagine you all are in aboat and you're all rowing
together toward this common goalof like, we want to understand
the Bible, we want to learn, wewant to leave here different
than when we came.
And when you distract or fart ortry to be the funny guy or are
(10:42):
being rude or disrespectful,it's like you're rowing the
opposite direction.
And that's really hard for thesmall group.
And I know you can do it.
I want to hear you participate,but I just think you need to
understand what correctparticipation looks like.
We want to hear from you.
We want to hear what you have tosay.
So it's all very positive.
(11:04):
And that's why, like a smallgroup leader or myself, like I
trust that we're gonna do thatthe right way.
You know, back in the day, I'vehad like random security people,
not anyone who's currently on mystaff, but like try to like, hey
kid, like you better shape upand show some respect.
And it like doesn't really go.
Scared straight techniques.
(11:25):
Yeah.
And it's just not the look we'regoing for, it's not the heart
we're going for, it's noteffective, I would say.
But sometimes you do have tosend a kid out.
I had to send a kid out ofchurch last Sunday, you know.
Luckily, I wasn't speaking, so Ijust walked with him.
I said, you know, we're gonnajust walk.
Let's walk.
(11:46):
And then the next Sunday I hadto send him out again.
And I gave him to another leaderand I said, I think he's needs a
walk done with what we're doing.
And she was available.
She's like, I got it.
And so they went in the officeand played some trading card
game or something.
But it it's always nice to havean extra leader where you can
just be like, All right, we'vereached the end of our ability
(12:08):
to reason with this person.
They just need to be gone so wecan do what we need to do.
So give your leaders thatoption.
And you, if they have re thelast thing you want is a
frustrated leader.
They really did not sign up fordiscipline, they signed up for
discipleship.
SPEAKER_02 (12:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
And leaders get burnt out when they feel like I
remember being a substituteteacher thinking I was going to
teach.
And I was very excited aboutthat.
And I remember the first time Idid, I taught, and it was
invigorating and I loved it.
And I'm like, sign me up.
And then slowly what it becameis behavior management,
discipline, sending kids to theprincipal, calling kids parents,
chasing kids who would run outof the classroom.
(12:45):
I'm like, I'm good.
It's not worth the$90 you'regonna pay me or whatever.
It's just like I wanted toteach.
And so I think about that withmy small group leaders.
What did they sign up for?
Okay, the ugly parts, there willbe some, inevitably, drama and
disrespect.
We can't eliminate all of thatfor them.
(13:06):
But what we can eliminate fromthem, we should.
I can take the discipline, I canmake the phone call, I can do
the dirty hard work, you know,for them.
And then that just helps themnot burn out, burn out as
easily.
So, okay, so one of my leaders,she had this tip, Hannah, and
(13:27):
she's like, I feel like thismight only work for my group.
I don't know, but she has agroup of eighth grade girls that
sometimes they get really out ofcontrol, just like blah blah.
And she's like, I just tellthem, we are going to be silent
for one minute.
And you, if you talk, I'mstarting the timer over, you
know, and in the wrong group,they'd be like, right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:49):
I was thinking of junior high boys, any grade,
that would, yeah, it would benever ending.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
And that's what she said.
She's like, it's not for everygroup, but for my group, they
really like it.
It is a reset button for themwhen they like can't get a hold
of themselves.
And I think that's a problem forjunior hires, is they can't
contain their own energy, theycan't direct their own energy,
they can't manage their ownenergy.
So it's not like they're tryingto be bad, but their energy is
(14:16):
just unmanageable for even them.
So if you say, you know what,we're gonna be absolutely
silent, close your eyes if youneed to.
One minute, it's like we'regonna push the reset button of
like, I'm in control of myenergy, I can be calm, I can
keep it together, you know,because then they just feed off
each other and then, you know,and it reaches this fever pitch
(14:37):
and you can't get it back.
So it's like she has found Ijust need absolute silence.
And it's almost like thismetaphoric deep breath, and then
we can keep going.
And it works for her.
Again, that's why I'm gonna giveyou guys a lot of ideas because
her small group is eighth gradegirls.
What works for that is not gonnawork for sixth grade boys.
So I heard we're gonna hear fromall kinds of people today.
(15:00):
So, Caleb, my guy's director, hesaid this.
Um, he was a former small groupleader, but like myself, he's
not leading right now.
He fills in as like a substitutewhen we're missing leaders.
He says, Don't make it feel likea classroom or lecture hall
since it's for their growth incommunity, not for us to be on a
soapbox.
(15:21):
And sometimes you don't get tothe to the talk sheet because
something else comes up.
So as long as it's growth forthem and as a group, I see it as
productive.
And I love what he said aboutlike is this.
I think sometimes leaders feellike, okay, I'm gonna do sermon
2.0.
Right.
And it's like, no, now we're inthe lab.
(15:41):
Like it was lecture, now lab.
So the sermon was lecture, labis discussing hands-on, how do
we do this?
Get in the Bible, ask questions,answer questions, learn
together.
So it's like not the small groupleader's job to be like, you
should do the least amount oftalking.
You ask good questions, you setthe tone, you get them moving
(16:04):
toward the direction they needto move, but you're not
lecturing.
And he brings up one of thethings I wrote down as well that
I totally agree with.
And I think another leader,Ryan, said this.
The whole point, like, I give myleaders the talk sheet.
It's there if you need it and ifyou want to follow it.
However, I've also coached youthpastors who say, I can't get my
(16:29):
kids to be interested in whatwe're talking about.
And I said, because they mightnot be, you know, like we might
have to abandon ship, not fromthe Bible or spiritual things or
God, but what we had planned totalk about that night in small
groups.
If they are 0% interested inthat, yet they are interested in
(16:50):
asking some questions more offthe cuff, it can turn into a
fantastic small group if youfollow a rabbit trail that is
like Caleb said, stillproductive.
It's not like, um, let's justtalk about like what boys we
like or something like that.
It I mean, that's okay for partof it, like community.
I would consider that honestcommunity.
(17:13):
Uh, but if they, if that's allthey want to talk about, it's
like, all right, let's wrap itup.
Hey, like, let's talk aboutsomething real now.
That could be like theicebreaker, you know.
But it's like what they want totalk about, you'll find probably
a very high level of engagementin like what's on their heart,
what's on their mind.
(17:33):
And that's not like you have toask that.
You could just maybe sense it inthe either if they're not
engaging in the material andthey're just giving you one-word
answers and they're not reallylike moved by it, or if
sometimes they'll pick it up andrun the ball another way.
And if it's good, just go withthem, you know, or if they're
(17:54):
asking a question that you thinkeveryone's kind of leaning in,
like, yeah, like what is theanswer to this?
So let them set the tone.
Like, some leaders get veryfixated on the talk sheet or the
discussion sheet itself and keeptrying to bring students back to
that, which is not necessarily abad thing, but use wisdom and
(18:17):
common sense of like, am Itrying to force you out of a
great conversation for whateveron my paper?
SPEAKER_02 (18:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
Like, be sensitive to where the spirit is kind of
leading and teaching them, anddon't necessarily steal that or
pull that away from them becauseyou have to do what's on the
talk sheet.
You don't.
It's there, and that's the topicwe planned, and it's probably a
really good one.
But the Holy Spirit might bedoing something different and be
(18:47):
open and flexible to that.
I think that makes some leadersa little nervous because they're
like, oh no, what if we talkabout something I don't know the
answers to?
And Caleb is very humble andhonest, and he'll say, and
that's when I go say, Let's findKristen.
Go ask Kristen.
Or I'll get a text message froma leader.
Hey, can you pop in my smallgroup?
They're asking some stuff that Iwould love your input on.
(19:09):
And I'm like, absolutely, I makehouse calls.
So, you know, let them know likeanother reason why I'm
available.
If your kids start askingquestions and you're feeling
like iffy on it, bring me in asthe youth leaders, youth pastor.
I'm here to help.
Josh, pray in the beginning thatyou make it past the highs and
lows.
Josh, if you're listening, get atimer.
(19:31):
All right.
Okay, so Ryan, um, he's one ofmy very seasoned leaders.
He's been doing it for a longtime, took a break and just came
back.
And he said, start with prayerand see if one of the kids wants
to pray.
Feel out the vibe.
Sometimes it's a night to have ameaningful conversation, and
sometimes it's just a night toget to know the kids better.
(19:53):
And then I love what he saysright here.
It's the long game that matters.
And he would know that becausehe's been in it for years.
And, you know, again, Ryan haslearned the art of flexibility
there of like, is tonight anight where we just need some
community?
Because that's spiritual too.
I mean, a night of getting toknow each other, and there is a
(20:17):
very powerful thing of kidsfeeling that sense of belonging
and how their spiritual wallscome down a little bit, you
know, is like, okay, I was knownor I had fun or we laughed
together.
And in the big group, maybe wedidn't get to do that as
intentionally, but now I'msitting here with my small group
(20:38):
leaders and I feel part of acommunity, I feel a part of a
family, I feel like I belong.
And that's great.
And Ryan's saying, sometimessense the vibe.
Do you guys just need some smallgroup time together?
And you could ask, like, hey,you know, as we wrap up kind of
our time, does anyone haveanything they want prayer for?
(20:58):
And see what happens once thosewalls are down from everyone
like enjoying camaraderie.
They might be like, Yeah, my dadhas cancer.
I haven't told you guys becauseI didn't really know the right
time to bring it up.
We've had kids say that justcomes out of nowhere, like, we
had no idea.
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
But it just And that's one of those things where
if that came out, let's say inthe beginning, it's worth
camping on that and not justbeing like, Okay, cool.
Does anybody else have anythingto share?
You know, it's like that maytake up your whole time.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
Yeah.
And we've been a part of lifegroups where you know, like
sometimes someone drops a bomband they're like, Oh, forget
about all this.
We need to talk, we need to comearound you, we need to like give
high attention to this rightnow.
So, and that's probably harderfor newer leaders to do.
Ryan's been doing this for along time.
He's a pro.
(21:46):
So, you know, he knows that hey,what kind of mood are these kids
in?
Do they need prayer?
Do they need the discussion?
Do they need just some love, youknow, uh, from their small group
leaders and attention andinterest.
And, you know, it's amazing.
Like junior hires are bottomlesspits for love, attention, and
(22:06):
affection.
You know, they just want yourundivided look at me, hear me,
see me, value me, watch me, youknow, hang out with me.
They that is fulfilling a need.
So I love that.
I love when he says it's thelong game that matters.
You have a long time with thesestudents if they're you're in
(22:27):
your small group and every nightis a little different.
Building night, prayer night,discussion night.
Like, let's look at the longgame of like what am I trying to
accomplish?
And he was so great.
He would take the boys hikingand camp.
I don't know if they wentcamping, but they were always
like hiking or mountain biking.
(22:47):
He was taking the boys to dolike really cool things.
So relationship.
Trevor, uh, he's one of ourleaders and interns.
And he says, you have to wintheir trust before being the bad
guy or the party pooper.
That will help in the long runof keeping them engaged and
controlling behavior.
(23:08):
So we always say in studentministry, relationship is the
bridge that truth travels over.
So the more relationship we havewith them, the more influence we
have with them, and the morehope we have to get them to
listen when it matters, youknow, when we do have to kind of
be like, hey guys, enough.
You know, if they know us andlove us, then that means
(23:30):
something instead of just like,who's this guy?
And that's why consistency isimportant too, because if you're
never there, they're like, whatdo you care?
Like, no, now you're here to bethe bad guy and you're you never
show up, kind of thing.
Trevor says, also make surethere are clear boundaries set,
kind of what Arden was saying,so they know when it's
appropriate time to have fun andit's appropriate time to get
(23:51):
serious.
And I think with that, likehaving a little schedule, you
know, of like, all right, we doour highs and lows, and then I
do our state of the union, andthen I say, Oh, remember what
we're here for tonight?
All right, who would like topray?
That kind of signals we'retransitioning now, and then we
do the discussion or, you know,whatever they want to talk
(24:12):
about, end in prayer, like helpguide them through what is
appropriate at what time.
Well, now we can be a littlemore off the cuff and casual or
just sharing about our highs andlows.
Oh, she prayed, she's nowtransitioning us to the other
stuff.
So if you kind of lead with asimilar formula every week, they
(24:36):
might be like, oh, I I'msignaled now what to do.
And you know, phones are a realissue in small groups.
I helped lead with one of oureighth grade girls small groups
two weeks ago, and right off thebat, it was no questions.
Everyone just put their phone intheir small group bin.
(24:56):
So every small group has a binwith their name on it and the
leaders' names, and they bringit in and it has supplies and
stuff like that, but they alsouse it as like a phone carrier,
so it wasn't like, oh, I have totake it away because you've
misused it.
I'm not even giving you thechance to misuse it.
You just put it in the bin untilwe're done.
Because a junior hire's favoriteline, predictable as the sun
(25:21):
rising in the morning.
Put your phone away.
I'm texting my mom every time,as if that is the caveat for
this is acceptable.
It's like I so I finally said,tell your mom not to text you
during our small group, or tellyour mom not to text you during
the sermon at church.
Like, is this an emergency?
(25:42):
Then you should be out of here.
But if you your mom is justtexting you, it can wait.
My gosh, we did it.
I grew up going to churchwithout a phone.
If my mom needed to tell mesomething, she told me after.
And so that's their number onething.
So it needs to go in the bin.
It's 30 minutes.
If there's an emergency, we'llfigure it out.
(26:04):
So Mara, she had some reallygreat things to say.
She's one of our seventh gradegirls, small group leaders.
She said they nearly, they'renearly always willing to talk
about themselves, preferences,funny stories, school stuff,
sports, etc.
We start with highs and lows.
We're noticing that theme there,to give the girls a chance to
(26:24):
connect with each other andleaders on a personal level, but
also to help them expressexcitement and energy before we
ask them to focus a little moreon sermon reflection and the
questions, what we were justtalking about.
Like this is this time, this isthis time.
I like this part.
She said, I like to ask whatabout the message stood out to
(26:45):
them, which gives the girls alittle refresh and the
opportunity, opportunity to askquestions before we jump into
the info on the talk sheet.
Yes, to the set boundaries, shewas agreeing.
But I love how she does theokay.
Well, just starting with a verybroad general question that
anybody can jump in on.
Like, well, what stood out toyou about the sermon?
(27:08):
And that's just a great way tostart because it kind of is a
review and a refresher.
And then it might even indicateto you like what parts of the
talk sheet to focus on, or oh mygosh, they heard this, let's go
that direction.
So, as a small group leader, payattention to what they're saying
during the what stood out to youso that you know where to go
(27:31):
next, maybe of like, oh, theyreally heard so much about this,
let's camp in that area.
Like, it seems like they'regonna be the most interested to
talk about things that have todo with whatever, right?
And I love how she said, like,let them get it out.
Like, that's kind of I've beennoticing they lead different
ways, but that's been like thecommon denominator.
(27:53):
Like, there's gotta be time inthe beginning.
It's just you've gotta have theboundary to not let that time
get away from you because all ofa sudden now you have three
minutes to like, uh, like Biblein prayer, you know.
Austin, he says this, he's oneof our small group leaders.
Matt and I, that's his co-lead.
Matt and I have found sometimesif we have one of the boys ask
(28:16):
the questions on the talk sheet,that helps the other guy stay
more engaged.
SPEAKER_02 (28:20):
I used to do that sometimes too.
Yeah.
And I sometimes I'd have themore wild ones read the
questions because it kept themengaged.
And it was almost like whenthey're asking it, they really
want to hear the answers fromother people.
Because now it's importantbecause I asked the question.
It wouldn't always work, but alot of times that we found that
(28:41):
was it was either.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you had told me that at
some point, but I I've neverreally done that.
So that was like, whoa,creative.
And maybe the boys need thatmore.
But yeah, like throwing it tothe kids.
All right, you asked thisquestion and seeing their peers
a lead is probably a cool thingtoo.
And he says, and also like Caleband Ryan were saying, being
(29:03):
willing to deviate from what youwere planning on talking about
in order to address what seemsto be the most poignant in their
lives.
So again, it's like, are welistening to them?
Right?
Like the small group is not forthem to listen to the small
group leader.
It's for us to listen to themand guide the conversation.
Like, and that's really what asmall group leader is guiding
(29:27):
conversation to a good place,asking good questions so that
you get to a good conclusion,leading people in their thoughts
to have a spiritual awakening orepiphany or see and understand
God in themselves better.
So it really is an art form.
It's not just them listening toyou do sermon 2.0.
(29:51):
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second to let you know about anawesome opportunity for you and
your youth ministry.
So last year, we We launched ourcourse and coaching program
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(30:12):
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So if that sounds like somethingyou've been looking for, go to
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(30:35):
All right, let's get back to theepisode.
And then a couple of thoughtsfrom myself that I've noticed
can really impact small groups,is the small group chemistry
might be to blame, is why you'renot having really great success
and leading a good small group.
Oh, we even know this as adults.
(30:56):
Like if you show up to a Biblestudy and it's just not it, like
you're not sharing.
And so sometimes youth leadersare like, oh, I can't get them
to share.
Like, have you ever thought itcould be the chemistry is just
off?
So, like, and you can have theopposite problem.
Like, they can be too good offriends, you know what I mean?
(31:17):
And that makes it impossible aswell.
So either they don't connectwith each other, and that's
really hard because nobodyreally is like interested in
like building community withpeople they don't really click
with.
And then on the other hand, youhave people that are way too
close of friends, and you feellike, hi, I'll be here in the
corner while you guys just laughand have your inside jokes the
(31:40):
whole time.
Here's what I would do ifthey're too good of friends and
they won't stop talking and youcan't get them to hush.
This is what I have to do allthe time.
I have to move them where theysit.
And they have to be, and thenespecially the boys, I had to
move this one kid like fourtimes today during church.
He had to be with out touchingrange, like in like, and he kept
(32:05):
scooting his chair.
And I'm like, I see you.
I am right here.
He didn't care.
He had to be near someone thathe could touch or take their hat
off or flip their hat in the airor do something.
And I'm like, I said, you need alot of supervision.
I'm like, this is getting reallyexhausting, and he just did not
care.
So sometimes you have to movethem where they can't touch
(32:27):
anybody or they're not next totheir BFF because I can
empathize in junior high.
If I was sitting next to my bestfriend in any class, it was uh
not controllable.
Like we you do the little likeand you like look at each other
and try not to laugh or pass anote, or we'd write something
(32:48):
funny on our book covers orsomething or in the books, yeah.
We did we did that.
Um in our Bibles of all things,in the cover of our Bible, he
would like write weird notes andpictures, very weird, you know.
So I empathize with theweirdness of a junior hire.
I I remember being that way.
So sometimes it's like just getthem away from each other.
(33:08):
And then if it's bad chemistryand nobody likes each other,
here would be my question (33:13):
do you need to split?
Do you need to find maybe threewith a common denominator of
like, I think we could get thesethree to click if these four
weren't here and these fourcould kind of click.
Well, now we have two supersmall groups, but with a way
better chance of connectionbecause I've seen that happen
(33:35):
before.
I split a group about a yearago, and the small group
leaders' feedback was like allof a sudden they share and talk.
And I'm like, we had badchemistry.
We should have done that a longtime ago.
They were like uphill everysingle week, and then we split
it to what I always coin as thephrase, like, put people in the
best opportunity for connection.
(33:57):
And when we architect it thatway, it worked.
Do you need to find a way tobuild camaraderie?
Like, is there no fun?
So there is no chemistry.
Maybe that's what it is.
You need to have some kind oficebreaker or bring in candy or
you know, do something funoutside a group together, or you
know, like do something thatbuilds relationships instead of
(34:20):
we are a group of people talkingand nobody's like into it, you
know.
You have the best conversationswith your best friends, right?
So try to put them in a place tobuild camaraderie.
And then a second sneaky thingis is the group too big?
So if you're not having anysuccess with engagement, it
(34:40):
could be the group is too big.
That's a really big problem forus, and it's hard to solve
because there's only so manyrooms and leaders and spaces and
places.
It's hard.
But if you have a small groupthat is actually pushing a size
of a small youth group, you needto maybe strategize how to cut
(35:02):
that down a little bit.
Splitting is always hard, theynever want it, they always
complain and kick and scream,but it actually always builds
health in the long run.
Like Ryan said, we're looking atthe long game here.
So I think sometimes, like akid, especially a new kid,
they're like, Yeah, all right,I'm not sharing in front of 14
boys I don't know.
But when you give them a goodshot at like, okay, I could
(35:24):
probably get to know these fiveboys.
I don't think I could get toknow these 14 boys.
And so how deep can yourconversation really go?
Like when nobody knows eachother, all you really are gonna
do is answer Bible questions.
You're not going to be doinglife.
And I don't, there's nothingwrong with answering Bible
questions, but small groups aremore than that.
(35:44):
It's like doing life and yeah,sharing the prairie quest about
your dad who has stage fourcancer and talking about, you
know, the fight you had, youknow, with your parents and
you're upset, or the bad gradeyou got, and now you had to get
off the football team orwhatever that like tender spot
(36:05):
is for you that you need supportand encouragement.
That's gonna be hard in a groupthat's too large.
So engagement will be surfaceyat best, and we'll just kind of
stick to the plan and getthrough the half hour.
You know what I mean?
So you guys are lucky you got tohear from some of the best small
group leaders that I have comeacross.
(36:25):
And thank you to my volunteerswho chimed in on our Discord
discussion thread today and gavetheir two cents.
It was really good.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
Yeah, and also keep in mind that small group is a
very impactful time for youryouth group overall, but it is
one aspect of many.
I mean, assuming you do do amessage, um, worship, you know,
things like that.
If it doesn't hit every questionon the talk sheet and you only
spend time just getting to knoweach other, it's like, well,
(36:55):
that's still a win because therewere other times that we you
were in the word, you know, inthe message or you were doing
worship music, and it doesn'talways have to be like we got
through every single question.
So make sure you give thatyourself and your uh small group
leaders that grace of knowinglike it doesn't have to be buy
the book every single time.
SPEAKER_01 (37:13):
Yeah, that's not necessarily success.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (37:16):
And if you do want uh some more information on how
to write a successful talksheet, we have an episode all
about that, so we'll link thatbelow.
So make sure you check it out.
And also, if you are loving thispodcast, make sure you like and
subscribe, whether you'rewatching and listening on
YouTube or any other platform.
Um, and also if you want to takea couple seconds to leave us a
review on Apple Podcasts, thatbenefits the show because it
(37:38):
gets to more people out there.
So we are gonna do a communitycomment of the day.
This is from Matt Nelms, whosays, Oh, and this is also from
the worship night episode thatwe did.
Taking our sizable youth groupout to the beach this Saturday
night for a night of worship,reading psalms, offering
prayers, and a few incrediblesets of praise songs to sing
with grace in our hearts to theLord, timing it for sunset.
(38:00):
That'd be cool, and hopeful thatsome beachgoers will decide to
join us.
Great content and ideas in thevideo.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Wow, thanks, Matt.
SPEAKER_02 (38:08):
Let us know how it went because that was two months
ago when you wrote that.
SPEAKER_01 (38:12):
So also, I don't know what you mean by sizable,
but if I learned this the hardway this summer, if you're
taking a sizable group to thebeach, you need a permit.
I got in trouble uh by thelifeguards, and they were very
nice about it.
So when I say in trouble, I justmean they were like, hey, next
(38:33):
time we need a permit.
So if you live in California, Ithink it's like 65 people or
more you need a permit.
Or maybe it was you could get it65 days out.
Or and it was 35 days.
Maybe.
I don't know.
You gotta look that up, okay?
You'll look it up.
But yeah, something somethingabout 65 is.
SPEAKER_02 (38:55):
So just ask for forgiveness, not permission, is
what you're saying.
Well, that's what I had to dothis year.
And thank you guys for watchingand listening.
And we'll see you next time.
What's it called?
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
Podecast?
SPEAKER_02 (39:05):
Hippodicast.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
Hippopodicast.
The reality is really going forit.
The reality is radio horror.
You should do the least amount of talking.
You ask good questions, you setthe tone, you get them moving
toward the direction they needto move, but you're not
lecturing.
The last thing you want is afrustrated leader.
They really did not sign up fordiscipline.
They signed up for discipleship.
Today we're talking about thebest practices of how to keep
your students engaged duringsmall groups in youth ministry.
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we
give you weekly tips and tacticsto help you fast-track the
growth and health of your youthministry.
If this is the first time we'remeeting, my name is Jeff
Lascola, and this is KristenLascola.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
And today we're going to answer the question:
how to keep students engaged andlistening during your small
group time.
We've said it before, we'll sayit again.
If you're like what smallgroups, push boss, go launch
small groups, then come back.
Then come back and finish.
Because that is like the onlyway I can think to have a like
(01:08):
consistent discipleship model inyouth ministry.
And so here's the thing,especially if you work with
junior hires like me, we knowthat small groups can sometimes
feel less than life-giving andless than productive.
You were a small group leaderfor a while.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
It's Thunderdome.
Yeah.
No rules.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Sounds like a leadership problem to me.
Definitely was.
SPEAKER_02 (01:31):
And that's why I asked for that leader to step
down.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
I asked myself one day, never turn back.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
Is this really worth it?
It is not.
Leave.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Uh, it is.
Don't listen to Jeff.
It is worth it.
And I know like it can be afrustrating half hour, 45
minutes.
So if you are doing high schoolsmall groups, I think high
schoolers can go a littlelonger.
In fact, they need to go alittle longer.
They should be able to, likeprobably 45 to 50 minutes is
(02:01):
great for a high school smallgroup.
You know your group best.
So this is not like I did notwrite this in stone.
It's not a law.
Do whatever you want.
Junior high, I feel like a halfhour to 40 minutes is probably
good.
You know, sometimes, dependingon the group, they can go way
longer and it be healthy andproductive.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Or boys versus girls.
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
I was gonna say, and I try to keep it to around 30
minutes to like put our malesmall group leaders out of their
misery some some weeks.
I and it has to be uniform.
I can't be like, all right, youguys can go 45, you guys go, you
know, it's like part of theprogram.
So you have to pick a time.
But yeah, so I the the reason Ibring that up is because I guess
(02:44):
it's not just common knowledge.
Like I've had youth pastorsreach out before with small
group qu questions and they'dsay, you know, like we spent
about 15 minutes in smallgroups.
I'm like, oh wow, okay, well,that could solve your problem.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
You haven't even gone through all the farts yet.
SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
I know we're still saying six, seven, we're still
farting, we're still, you know,like putting our trash in the
trash can because you know, weall fighting over a chair.
Totally.
So yeah, I think 30 minutesminimum, 40 to 45 maximum, and
then high school 45 to an hour,you know, the girls might want
(03:23):
to go that long.
Uh, you know, and I don't meanto paint with a broad brush.
Girls just in my experience tendto want to talk more and longer.
And boys are ready to, you know,burn some energy after a little
while, which is totally fine.
So we're gonna talk about okay,if we're going to do small
groups, which we are, that is anon-negotiable.
(03:45):
How do we make them the bestthat they can possibly be?
Because they can be frustrating.
It can be really, really hard toget students of any age or
gender to listen or focus.
Some of our girls' small groupsare giggly and like warty.
Yes, you you know who you are.
(04:06):
Very farty.
Um, you know, and it's it's notjust the boys, you know.
We have some girls small groupsthat like the leaders are like,
oh, that was really a struggle.
So today we're gonna talk aboutjust some practical tips.
And we're gonna go through alot, and I'm gonna try to do
them quickly because I didsomething a little different for
(04:27):
this episode.
My research is, you know, it'spartly from myself and my
experience.
I have been a small group leaderfor many, many years.
I'm currently not, so that I canhelp my small group leaders
specifically with discipline.
But some of this is from me.
But then what I did is I sentout a message to my small group
(04:47):
leaders asking them thisquestion to see what they would
say.
And it's interesting, there'ssome common threads, but I it
made me realize every group ofkids is so different and what
they need and what works forthem.
And every small group leader,you know, as they wrote me this
afternoon an answer to thisquestion, you realize that they
(05:09):
are kind of the expert of theirsmall group and they have a very
specific leadership style, andthey've tried to figure out
where those two meet and wherethey have found success.
So it's gonna feel like wow,like maybe you can grasp at one
of these and see if it works foryour small groups.
So I started off by asking um mygirls director slash admin
(05:33):
Arden.
I was asking her at churchtoday, and she said, set clear
boundaries, rules, andexpectations for the group.
And I put in parentheses, youmight have to do that every
single time.
Like it's not just like, well,remember that at the very
beginning of the year when wetalked about expectations.
You might have to review thatevery single time, especially
(05:55):
with the younger ones, just tobe like, hey guys, here's what
this time is, here's what thistime isn't for the next 30
minutes.
We're going to study the Bible.
I want to hear from all of you.
We're here to learn from theBible, learn from each other,
discuss, wrestle through things,pray for each other.
I need you on board with thatmission and vision.
(06:16):
If I sense that you are not onboard with that mission and
vision, we're gonna have to comeup with a solution for you
because this time is tooimportant to be a throwaway.
So I added more than what shesaid, but it's like that
boundaries and goals andexpectations, kind of that like
state of the union before youstart.
(06:37):
Another idea Arden has was, andI used to do this as a small
group leader, offer rewardstowards goals.
So if you have a goal for yourentire small group to bring
their Bible, say if every singlegirl brings their Bible for
three weeks in a row, I'll bringpizza for our group.
Or you can give them more of animmediate reward.
(06:58):
Every kid who brings their Biblegets a piece of candy.
I like to give candy for kidswho answered, like raised their
hand, answered, and participatedin the right way.
You know, that helped them stayfocused and motivated, whatever
it takes.
She said, bring in activitiesthat they want to do or look
forward to do in order to stayengaged.
(07:20):
And one of her examples washighs and lows.
She says the girls always reallylook forward to saying highs and
lows for the week.
I would recommend timing that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
Yeah, give you a cap of time.
SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
Totally.
And because some of the boyschimed in on that, then they're
like, we just pray we can getthrough highs and lows.
And I'm like, yeah, I can sensethat because students really do
like to talk about themselves.
And it might have to be likeeveryone gets 30 seconds, here's
my phone timer, ready go.
When I was a small group leader,I used to do that.
(07:53):
I I wanted to hear fromeveryone, but it could turn into
a big long story that this kindof forced them to cut out any
unnecessary details and get tothe point because there's way
more stuff to do.
Or for the boys, if they don'twant to do highs and lows, if
there was some like quick littleget to know you game, or maybe
(08:13):
not a runaround game, because Ithink it'd be really tough to
like center their energy backin.
But like, you know, the gamewhere you put the card on your
head and they have to guess whatit is, if you could make it
relevant to your small group,you know, or something like
that.
But yeah, just something to kindof break the ice, kind of like
get their little wiggles out,you know, and kind of start on
(08:37):
like a like a positive note, youknow, not like, all right,
listen up, guys.
This is, you know, because thatdoesn't really what we're trying
to do is inspire fellowship,inspire conversation, inspire
community.
So it's always this like line oftension between being overly
(08:58):
strict and overly permissive,because what you would want is
that you don't have to be thebad guy and they all just share
and focus and participate, andwe had a good old time.
Now that usually happens with mystudent leadership girls.
We had a great discussion onFriday, and it was just like on
fire, you know, that's notalways the case.
(09:19):
And that was like utopia as asmall group leader, what we hope
for.
But yeah, that tension of like,I do need to be like one of my
leaders, Vaughn, said, like,sometimes you do have to get
strict with them and like make aboundary.
And I always tell the leaderslike, if you are having a
problem with boundaries andthey're not respecting you, it
(09:39):
is not outside the realm ofpossibility to send a kid out.
The the And that's where youcome in.
That's where I come in.
And the key is or the two-leadersystem.
One leader can stay with thegroup and one leader can take a
kid out in the hallway and talkto him.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Beat the heck out of him and talk to him.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
And I and I'm glad you bring that up because my
goal is always to be respectfuland kind.
So I'm never out in the hallwayyelling at a kid.
What I'm usually saying is, hey,I don't know if you forgot the
purpose of small groups, but youhave a small group leader who
came tonight for free becausethey love this and they're
(10:19):
excited to get you guys tounderstand more of who God is.
And imagine you all are in aboat and you're all rowing
together toward this common goalof like, we want to understand
the Bible, we want to learn, wewant to leave here different
than when we came.
And when you distract or fart ortry to be the funny guy or are
(10:42):
being rude or disrespectful,it's like you're rowing the
opposite direction.
And that's really hard for thesmall group.
And I know you can do it.
I want to hear you participate,but I just think you need to
understand what correctparticipation looks like.
We want to hear from you.
We want to hear what you have tosay.
So it's all very positive.
(11:04):
And that's why, like a smallgroup leader or myself, like I
trust that we're gonna do thatthe right way.
You know, back in the day, I'vehad like random security people,
not anyone who's currently on mystaff, but like try to like, hey
kid, like you better shape upand show some respect.
And it like doesn't really go.
Scared straight techniques.
(11:25):
Yeah.
And it's just not the look we'regoing for, it's not the heart
we're going for, it's noteffective, I would say.
But sometimes you do have tosend a kid out.
I had to send a kid out ofchurch last Sunday, you know.
Luckily, I wasn't speaking, so Ijust walked with him.
I said, you know, we're gonnajust walk.
Let's walk.
(11:46):
And then the next Sunday I hadto send him out again.
And I gave him to another leaderand I said, I think he's needs a
walk done with what we're doing.
And she was available.
She's like, I got it.
And so they went in the officeand played some trading card
game or something.
But it it's always nice to havean extra leader where you can
just be like, All right, we'vereached the end of our ability
(12:08):
to reason with this person.
They just need to be gone so wecan do what we need to do.
So give your leaders thatoption.
And you, if they have re thelast thing you want is a
frustrated leader.
They really did not sign up fordiscipline, they signed up for
discipleship.
SPEAKER_02 (12:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
And leaders get burnt out when they feel like I
remember being a substituteteacher thinking I was going to
teach.
And I was very excited aboutthat.
And I remember the first time Idid, I taught, and it was
invigorating and I loved it.
And I'm like, sign me up.
And then slowly what it becameis behavior management,
discipline, sending kids to theprincipal, calling kids parents,
chasing kids who would run outof the classroom.
(12:45):
I'm like, I'm good.
It's not worth the$90 you'regonna pay me or whatever.
It's just like I wanted toteach.
And so I think about that withmy small group leaders.
What did they sign up for?
Okay, the ugly parts, there willbe some, inevitably, drama and
disrespect.
We can't eliminate all of thatfor them.
(13:06):
But what we can eliminate fromthem, we should.
I can take the discipline, I canmake the phone call, I can do
the dirty hard work, you know,for them.
And then that just helps themnot burn out, burn out as
easily.
So, okay, so one of my leaders,she had this tip, Hannah, and
(13:27):
she's like, I feel like thismight only work for my group.
I don't know, but she has agroup of eighth grade girls that
sometimes they get really out ofcontrol, just like blah blah.
And she's like, I just tellthem, we are going to be silent
for one minute.
And you, if you talk, I'mstarting the timer over, you
know, and in the wrong group,they'd be like, right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:49):
I was thinking of junior high boys, any grade,
that would, yeah, it would benever ending.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
And that's what she said.
She's like, it's not for everygroup, but for my group, they
really like it.
It is a reset button for themwhen they like can't get a hold
of themselves.
And I think that's a problem forjunior hires, is they can't
contain their own energy, theycan't direct their own energy,
they can't manage their ownenergy.
So it's not like they're tryingto be bad, but their energy is
(14:16):
just unmanageable for even them.
So if you say, you know what,we're gonna be absolutely
silent, close your eyes if youneed to.
One minute, it's like we'regonna push the reset button of
like, I'm in control of myenergy, I can be calm, I can
keep it together, you know,because then they just feed off
each other and then, you know,and it reaches this fever pitch
(14:37):
and you can't get it back.
So it's like she has found Ijust need absolute silence.
And it's almost like thismetaphoric deep breath, and then
we can keep going.
And it works for her.
Again, that's why I'm gonna giveyou guys a lot of ideas because
her small group is eighth gradegirls.
What works for that is not gonnawork for sixth grade boys.
So I heard we're gonna hear fromall kinds of people today.
(15:00):
So, Caleb, my guy's director, hesaid this.
Um, he was a former small groupleader, but like myself, he's
not leading right now.
He fills in as like a substitutewhen we're missing leaders.
He says, Don't make it feel likea classroom or lecture hall
since it's for their growth incommunity, not for us to be on a
soapbox.
(15:21):
And sometimes you don't get tothe to the talk sheet because
something else comes up.
So as long as it's growth forthem and as a group, I see it as
productive.
And I love what he said aboutlike is this.
I think sometimes leaders feellike, okay, I'm gonna do sermon
2.0.
Right.
And it's like, no, now we're inthe lab.
(15:41):
Like it was lecture, now lab.
So the sermon was lecture, labis discussing hands-on, how do
we do this?
Get in the Bible, ask questions,answer questions, learn
together.
So it's like not the small groupleader's job to be like, you
should do the least amount oftalking.
You ask good questions, you setthe tone, you get them moving
(16:04):
toward the direction they needto move, but you're not
lecturing.
And he brings up one of thethings I wrote down as well that
I totally agree with.
And I think another leader,Ryan, said this.
The whole point, like, I give myleaders the talk sheet.
It's there if you need it and ifyou want to follow it.
However, I've also coached youthpastors who say, I can't get my
(16:29):
kids to be interested in whatwe're talking about.
And I said, because they mightnot be, you know, like we might
have to abandon ship, not fromthe Bible or spiritual things or
God, but what we had planned totalk about that night in small
groups.
If they are 0% interested inthat, yet they are interested in
(16:50):
asking some questions more offthe cuff, it can turn into a
fantastic small group if youfollow a rabbit trail that is
like Caleb said, stillproductive.
It's not like, um, let's justtalk about like what boys we
like or something like that.
It I mean, that's okay for partof it, like community.
I would consider that honestcommunity.
(17:13):
Uh, but if they, if that's allthey want to talk about, it's
like, all right, let's wrap itup.
Hey, like, let's talk aboutsomething real now.
That could be like theicebreaker, you know.
But it's like what they want totalk about, you'll find probably
a very high level of engagementin like what's on their heart,
what's on their mind.
(17:33):
And that's not like you have toask that.
You could just maybe sense it inthe either if they're not
engaging in the material andthey're just giving you one-word
answers and they're not reallylike moved by it, or if
sometimes they'll pick it up andrun the ball another way.
And if it's good, just go withthem, you know, or if they're
(17:54):
asking a question that you thinkeveryone's kind of leaning in,
like, yeah, like what is theanswer to this?
So let them set the tone.
Like, some leaders get veryfixated on the talk sheet or the
discussion sheet itself and keeptrying to bring students back to
that, which is not necessarily abad thing, but use wisdom and
(18:17):
common sense of like, am Itrying to force you out of a
great conversation for whateveron my paper?
SPEAKER_02 (18:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
Like, be sensitive to where the spirit is kind of
leading and teaching them, anddon't necessarily steal that or
pull that away from them becauseyou have to do what's on the
talk sheet.
You don't.
It's there, and that's the topicwe planned, and it's probably a
really good one.
But the Holy Spirit might bedoing something different and be
(18:47):
open and flexible to that.
I think that makes some leadersa little nervous because they're
like, oh no, what if we talkabout something I don't know the
answers to?
And Caleb is very humble andhonest, and he'll say, and
that's when I go say, Let's findKristen.
Go ask Kristen.
Or I'll get a text message froma leader.
Hey, can you pop in my smallgroup?
They're asking some stuff that Iwould love your input on.
(19:09):
And I'm like, absolutely, I makehouse calls.
So, you know, let them know likeanother reason why I'm
available.
If your kids start askingquestions and you're feeling
like iffy on it, bring me in asthe youth leaders, youth pastor.
I'm here to help.
Josh, pray in the beginning thatyou make it past the highs and
lows.
Josh, if you're listening, get atimer.
(19:31):
All right.
Okay, so Ryan, um, he's one ofmy very seasoned leaders.
He's been doing it for a longtime, took a break and just came
back.
And he said, start with prayerand see if one of the kids wants
to pray.
Feel out the vibe.
Sometimes it's a night to have ameaningful conversation, and
sometimes it's just a night toget to know the kids better.
(19:53):
And then I love what he saysright here.
It's the long game that matters.
And he would know that becausehe's been in it for years.
And, you know, again, Ryan haslearned the art of flexibility
there of like, is tonight anight where we just need some
community?
Because that's spiritual too.
I mean, a night of getting toknow each other, and there is a
(20:17):
very powerful thing of kidsfeeling that sense of belonging
and how their spiritual wallscome down a little bit, you
know, is like, okay, I was knownor I had fun or we laughed
together.
And in the big group, maybe wedidn't get to do that as
intentionally, but now I'msitting here with my small group
(20:38):
leaders and I feel part of acommunity, I feel a part of a
family, I feel like I belong.
And that's great.
And Ryan's saying, sometimessense the vibe.
Do you guys just need some smallgroup time together?
And you could ask, like, hey,you know, as we wrap up kind of
our time, does anyone haveanything they want prayer for?
(20:58):
And see what happens once thosewalls are down from everyone
like enjoying camaraderie.
They might be like, Yeah, my dadhas cancer.
I haven't told you guys becauseI didn't really know the right
time to bring it up.
We've had kids say that justcomes out of nowhere, like, we
had no idea.
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
But it just And that's one of those things where
if that came out, let's say inthe beginning, it's worth
camping on that and not justbeing like, Okay, cool.
Does anybody else have anythingto share?
You know, it's like that maytake up your whole time.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
Yeah.
And we've been a part of lifegroups where you know, like
sometimes someone drops a bomband they're like, Oh, forget
about all this.
We need to talk, we need to comearound you, we need to like give
high attention to this rightnow.
So, and that's probably harderfor newer leaders to do.
Ryan's been doing this for along time.
He's a pro.
(21:46):
So, you know, he knows that hey,what kind of mood are these kids
in?
Do they need prayer?
Do they need the discussion?
Do they need just some love, youknow, uh, from their small group
leaders and attention andinterest.
And, you know, it's amazing.
Like junior hires are bottomlesspits for love, attention, and
(22:06):
affection.
You know, they just want yourundivided look at me, hear me,
see me, value me, watch me, youknow, hang out with me.
They that is fulfilling a need.
So I love that.
I love when he says it's thelong game that matters.
You have a long time with thesestudents if they're you're in
(22:27):
your small group and every nightis a little different.
Building night, prayer night,discussion night.
Like, let's look at the longgame of like what am I trying to
accomplish?
And he was so great.
He would take the boys hikingand camp.
I don't know if they wentcamping, but they were always
like hiking or mountain biking.
(22:47):
He was taking the boys to dolike really cool things.
So relationship.
Trevor, uh, he's one of ourleaders and interns.
And he says, you have to wintheir trust before being the bad
guy or the party pooper.
That will help in the long runof keeping them engaged and
controlling behavior.
(23:08):
So we always say in studentministry, relationship is the
bridge that truth travels over.
So the more relationship we havewith them, the more influence we
have with them, and the morehope we have to get them to
listen when it matters, youknow, when we do have to kind of
be like, hey guys, enough.
You know, if they know us andlove us, then that means
(23:30):
something instead of just like,who's this guy?
And that's why consistency isimportant too, because if you're
never there, they're like, whatdo you care?
Like, no, now you're here to bethe bad guy and you're you never
show up, kind of thing.
Trevor says, also make surethere are clear boundaries set,
kind of what Arden was saying,so they know when it's
appropriate time to have fun andit's appropriate time to get
(23:51):
serious.
And I think with that, likehaving a little schedule, you
know, of like, all right, we doour highs and lows, and then I
do our state of the union, andthen I say, Oh, remember what
we're here for tonight?
All right, who would like topray?
That kind of signals we'retransitioning now, and then we
do the discussion or, you know,whatever they want to talk
(24:12):
about, end in prayer, like helpguide them through what is
appropriate at what time.
Well, now we can be a littlemore off the cuff and casual or
just sharing about our highs andlows.
Oh, she prayed, she's nowtransitioning us to the other
stuff.
So if you kind of lead with asimilar formula every week, they
(24:36):
might be like, oh, I I'msignaled now what to do.
And you know, phones are a realissue in small groups.
I helped lead with one of oureighth grade girls small groups
two weeks ago, and right off thebat, it was no questions.
Everyone just put their phone intheir small group bin.
(24:56):
So every small group has a binwith their name on it and the
leaders' names, and they bringit in and it has supplies and
stuff like that, but they alsouse it as like a phone carrier,
so it wasn't like, oh, I have totake it away because you've
misused it.
I'm not even giving you thechance to misuse it.
You just put it in the bin untilwe're done.
Because a junior hire's favoriteline, predictable as the sun
(25:21):
rising in the morning.
Put your phone away.
I'm texting my mom every time,as if that is the caveat for
this is acceptable.
It's like I so I finally said,tell your mom not to text you
during our small group, or tellyour mom not to text you during
the sermon at church.
Like, is this an emergency?
(25:42):
Then you should be out of here.
But if you your mom is justtexting you, it can wait.
My gosh, we did it.
I grew up going to churchwithout a phone.
If my mom needed to tell mesomething, she told me after.
And so that's their number onething.
So it needs to go in the bin.
It's 30 minutes.
If there's an emergency, we'llfigure it out.
(26:04):
So Mara, she had some reallygreat things to say.
She's one of our seventh gradegirls, small group leaders.
She said they nearly, they'renearly always willing to talk
about themselves, preferences,funny stories, school stuff,
sports, etc.
We start with highs and lows.
We're noticing that theme there,to give the girls a chance to
(26:24):
connect with each other andleaders on a personal level, but
also to help them expressexcitement and energy before we
ask them to focus a little moreon sermon reflection and the
questions, what we were justtalking about.
Like this is this time, this isthis time.
I like this part.
She said, I like to ask whatabout the message stood out to
(26:45):
them, which gives the girls alittle refresh and the
opportunity, opportunity to askquestions before we jump into
the info on the talk sheet.
Yes, to the set boundaries, shewas agreeing.
But I love how she does theokay.
Well, just starting with a verybroad general question that
anybody can jump in on.
Like, well, what stood out toyou about the sermon?
(27:08):
And that's just a great way tostart because it kind of is a
review and a refresher.
And then it might even indicateto you like what parts of the
talk sheet to focus on, or oh mygosh, they heard this, let's go
that direction.
So, as a small group leader, payattention to what they're saying
during the what stood out to youso that you know where to go
(27:31):
next, maybe of like, oh, theyreally heard so much about this,
let's camp in that area.
Like, it seems like they'regonna be the most interested to
talk about things that have todo with whatever, right?
And I love how she said, like,let them get it out.
Like, that's kind of I've beennoticing they lead different
ways, but that's been like thecommon denominator.
(27:53):
Like, there's gotta be time inthe beginning.
It's just you've gotta have theboundary to not let that time
get away from you because all ofa sudden now you have three
minutes to like, uh, like Biblein prayer, you know.
Austin, he says this, he's oneof our small group leaders.
Matt and I, that's his co-lead.
Matt and I have found sometimesif we have one of the boys ask
(28:16):
the questions on the talk sheet,that helps the other guy stay
more engaged.
SPEAKER_02 (28:20):
I used to do that sometimes too.
Yeah.
And I sometimes I'd have themore wild ones read the
questions because it kept themengaged.
And it was almost like whenthey're asking it, they really
want to hear the answers fromother people.
Because now it's importantbecause I asked the question.
It wouldn't always work, but alot of times that we found that
(28:41):
was it was either.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you had told me that at
some point, but I I've neverreally done that.
So that was like, whoa,creative.
And maybe the boys need thatmore.
But yeah, like throwing it tothe kids.
All right, you asked thisquestion and seeing their peers
a lead is probably a cool thingtoo.
And he says, and also like Caleband Ryan were saying, being
(29:03):
willing to deviate from what youwere planning on talking about
in order to address what seemsto be the most poignant in their
lives.
So again, it's like, are welistening to them?
Right?
Like the small group is not forthem to listen to the small
group leader.
It's for us to listen to themand guide the conversation.
Like, and that's really what asmall group leader is guiding
(29:27):
conversation to a good place,asking good questions so that
you get to a good conclusion,leading people in their thoughts
to have a spiritual awakening orepiphany or see and understand
God in themselves better.
So it really is an art form.
It's not just them listening toyou do sermon 2.0.
(29:51):
Hey, friend, I just wanted tointerrupt this episode for a
second to let you know about anawesome opportunity for you and
your youth ministry.
So last year, we We launched ourcourse and coaching program
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And the response has beenamazing.
So we've helped tons of youthpastors grow the size and health
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(30:12):
And we want to invite you to bea part of that as well because
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Maybe you don't know what to donext.
Maybe you just have a vague planin your mind of what you're
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So if that sounds like somethingyou've been looking for, go to
growyouryoutministry.com andcheck it out for more details.
(30:35):
All right, let's get back to theepisode.
And then a couple of thoughtsfrom myself that I've noticed
can really impact small groups,is the small group chemistry
might be to blame, is why you'renot having really great success
and leading a good small group.
Oh, we even know this as adults.
(30:56):
Like if you show up to a Biblestudy and it's just not it, like
you're not sharing.
And so sometimes youth leadersare like, oh, I can't get them
to share.
Like, have you ever thought itcould be the chemistry is just
off?
So, like, and you can have theopposite problem.
Like, they can be too good offriends, you know what I mean?
(31:17):
And that makes it impossible aswell.
So either they don't connectwith each other, and that's
really hard because nobodyreally is like interested in
like building community withpeople they don't really click
with.
And then on the other hand, youhave people that are way too
close of friends, and you feellike, hi, I'll be here in the
corner while you guys just laughand have your inside jokes the
(31:40):
whole time.
Here's what I would do ifthey're too good of friends and
they won't stop talking and youcan't get them to hush.
This is what I have to do allthe time.
I have to move them where theysit.
And they have to be, and thenespecially the boys, I had to
move this one kid like fourtimes today during church.
He had to be with out touchingrange, like in like, and he kept
(32:05):
scooting his chair.
And I'm like, I see you.
I am right here.
He didn't care.
He had to be near someone thathe could touch or take their hat
off or flip their hat in the airor do something.
And I'm like, I said, you need alot of supervision.
I'm like, this is getting reallyexhausting, and he just did not
care.
So sometimes you have to movethem where they can't touch
(32:27):
anybody or they're not next totheir BFF because I can
empathize in junior high.
If I was sitting next to my bestfriend in any class, it was uh
not controllable.
Like we you do the little likeand you like look at each other
and try not to laugh or pass anote, or we'd write something
(32:48):
funny on our book covers orsomething or in the books, yeah.
We did we did that.
Um in our Bibles of all things,in the cover of our Bible, he
would like write weird notes andpictures, very weird, you know.
So I empathize with theweirdness of a junior hire.
I I remember being that way.
So sometimes it's like just getthem away from each other.
(33:08):
And then if it's bad chemistryand nobody likes each other,
here would be my question (33:13):
do you need to split?
Do you need to find maybe threewith a common denominator of
like, I think we could get thesethree to click if these four
weren't here and these fourcould kind of click.
Well, now we have two supersmall groups, but with a way
better chance of connectionbecause I've seen that happen
(33:35):
before.
I split a group about a yearago, and the small group
leaders' feedback was like allof a sudden they share and talk.
And I'm like, we had badchemistry.
We should have done that a longtime ago.
They were like uphill everysingle week, and then we split
it to what I always coin as thephrase, like, put people in the
best opportunity for connection.
(33:57):
And when we architect it thatway, it worked.
Do you need to find a way tobuild camaraderie?
Like, is there no fun?
So there is no chemistry.
Maybe that's what it is.
You need to have some kind oficebreaker or bring in candy or
you know, do something funoutside a group together, or you
know, like do something thatbuilds relationships instead of
(34:20):
we are a group of people talkingand nobody's like into it, you
know.
You have the best conversationswith your best friends, right?
So try to put them in a place tobuild camaraderie.
And then a second sneaky thingis is the group too big?
So if you're not having anysuccess with engagement, it
(34:40):
could be the group is too big.
That's a really big problem forus, and it's hard to solve
because there's only so manyrooms and leaders and spaces and
places.
It's hard.
But if you have a small groupthat is actually pushing a size
of a small youth group, you needto maybe strategize how to cut
(35:02):
that down a little bit.
Splitting is always hard, theynever want it, they always
complain and kick and scream,but it actually always builds
health in the long run.
Like Ryan said, we're looking atthe long game here.
So I think sometimes, like akid, especially a new kid,
they're like, Yeah, all right,I'm not sharing in front of 14
boys I don't know.
But when you give them a goodshot at like, okay, I could
(35:24):
probably get to know these fiveboys.
I don't think I could get toknow these 14 boys.
And so how deep can yourconversation really go?
Like when nobody knows eachother, all you really are gonna
do is answer Bible questions.
You're not going to be doinglife.
And I don't, there's nothingwrong with answering Bible
questions, but small groups aremore than that.
(35:44):
It's like doing life and yeah,sharing the prairie quest about
your dad who has stage fourcancer and talking about, you
know, the fight you had, youknow, with your parents and
you're upset, or the bad gradeyou got, and now you had to get
off the football team orwhatever that like tender spot
(36:05):
is for you that you need supportand encouragement.
That's gonna be hard in a groupthat's too large.
So engagement will be surfaceyat best, and we'll just kind of
stick to the plan and getthrough the half hour.
You know what I mean?
So you guys are lucky you got tohear from some of the best small
group leaders that I have comeacross.
(36:25):
And thank you to my volunteerswho chimed in on our Discord
discussion thread today and gavetheir two cents.
It was really good.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
Yeah, and also keep in mind that small group is a
very impactful time for youryouth group overall, but it is
one aspect of many.
I mean, assuming you do do amessage, um, worship, you know,
things like that.
If it doesn't hit every questionon the talk sheet and you only
spend time just getting to knoweach other, it's like, well,
(36:55):
that's still a win because therewere other times that we you
were in the word, you know, inthe message or you were doing
worship music, and it doesn'talways have to be like we got
through every single question.
So make sure you give thatyourself and your uh small group
leaders that grace of knowinglike it doesn't have to be buy
the book every single time.
SPEAKER_01 (37:13):
Yeah, that's not necessarily success.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (37:16):
And if you do want uh some more information on how
to write a successful talksheet, we have an episode all
about that, so we'll link thatbelow.
So make sure you check it out.
And also, if you are loving thispodcast, make sure you like and
subscribe, whether you'rewatching and listening on
YouTube or any other platform.
Um, and also if you want to takea couple seconds to leave us a
review on Apple Podcasts, thatbenefits the show because it
(37:38):
gets to more people out there.
So we are gonna do a communitycomment of the day.
This is from Matt Nelms, whosays, Oh, and this is also from
the worship night episode thatwe did.
Taking our sizable youth groupout to the beach this Saturday
night for a night of worship,reading psalms, offering
prayers, and a few incrediblesets of praise songs to sing
with grace in our hearts to theLord, timing it for sunset.
(38:00):
That'd be cool, and hopeful thatsome beachgoers will decide to
join us.
Great content and ideas in thevideo.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Wow, thanks, Matt.
SPEAKER_02 (38:08):
Let us know how it went because that was two months
ago when you wrote that.
SPEAKER_01 (38:12):
So also, I don't know what you mean by sizable,
but if I learned this the hardway this summer, if you're
taking a sizable group to thebeach, you need a permit.
I got in trouble uh by thelifeguards, and they were very
nice about it.
So when I say in trouble, I justmean they were like, hey, next
(38:33):
time we need a permit.
So if you live in California, Ithink it's like 65 people or
more you need a permit.
Or maybe it was you could get it65 days out.
Or and it was 35 days.
Maybe.
I don't know.
You gotta look that up, okay?
You'll look it up.
But yeah, something somethingabout 65 is.
SPEAKER_02 (38:55):
So just ask for forgiveness, not permission, is
what you're saying.
Well, that's what I had to dothis year.
And thank you guys for watchingand listening.
And we'll see you next time.
What's it called?
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
Podecast?
SPEAKER_02 (39:05):
Hippodicast.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
Hippopodicast.
The reality is really going forit.
The reality is radio horror.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.