March 20, 2025 • 40 mins
Are you looking to grow the size and health of your youth ministry? Check out
GrowYourYouthMinistry.com *** The perpetual tug-of-war between youth ministry and sports commitments has challenged youth pastors for many years. How do we navigate this tension when both activities compete for limited time?
In this episode, we discuss five strategic approaches that can help youth pastors position their student ministries as priorities worth making time for. Rather than villainizing sports, we explore what makes athletics so attractive to families and how youth group can learn a few things and incorporate those same appealing elements into mid-week programs.
We ask the challenging question every youth pastor needs to answer: "In your students' eyes, is your youth ministry truly worth missing sports for?"
Whether you're in the middle of baseball season, football practice, basketball drills, volleyball games or another athletic commitment in your community, these strategies will help you create a youth ministry experience students feel they can't afford to miss. Ultimately, we shouldn't be looking to eliminate sports, but rather, how can we create a youth group that students will do whatever it takes to attend?
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If you have it on your heart to support this ministry, please consider going to our Patreon page at: www.patreon.com/ministrycoach
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You may also enjoy these episodes:
(#057) Getting Parents Involved in Youth Ministry
(#047) Youth Pastors & Parents: Best Communication Tips
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we're talking about five ways to help you
navigate the tension betweenyouth group and sports.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast.
Today we're talking all aboutthe battle for your students'
commitment.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
My name is Jeff Laskola and this is Kristen
Laskola, and today we're goingto talk about something that has
been plaguing and bugging youthpastors since the dawn of youth
ministry, and that is sportsversus youth group who will win,
who will be victorious?
It's a battle we are allfamiliar with, and I hear youth
(00:45):
pastors talk about all the timewhere, when their attendance
dips, they point to a lot ofthings, and one of them is we
have a lot of football playersor baseball players and,
depending what kind of communityyou live in, that can determine
the intensity of the passionfor sports and how intense this
(01:05):
tug of war for time andcommitment that you're involved
in.
Like if you're in a communitythat highly, highly prizes
baseball, that's our sport.
I feel like in our well, withthe junior hires specifically.
Maybe when they get to highschool it's more football, but
for my junior hires it'sbaseball, baseball, baseball
(01:26):
baseball.
That's all we ever hear about,that's all they're doing on the
weekends, and so I don't knowwhat that is for your community.
But it's a real thing and asyouth pastors it's a little bit
discouraging at times becauseyou so badly want students to
prioritize youth group.
And you know, know, deep down,sports are not bad, you know,
(01:50):
like we're not talking about,like choose us over your life of
sin you know it's like wellsports are great you know,
and we're a sports parents.
We are sports parents.
Now our daughter is on thebasketball team, and so now I
can actually do this episodefrom real experience on how this
(02:10):
tension works.
And sports are great.
There's a lot as a parent thatyou're like I want my kids
involved in sports for thesereasons, and we're going to talk
about that in a second.
But how do we ask them to pickus when it's like well, sports
are also good.
Now I feel like it's thedifference and I know our
(02:33):
audience does too of like yeah,sports are good, but youth group
is great, church is excellent.
Like how could you even comparethose two things?
And so today we're going totalk about five different ways
we can help navigate this topicas youth pastors and position
ourselves in the most favorableplace possible to hopefully win
(02:56):
over the hearts of our youth sothat they will pick us, pick me,
okay.
So, number one think about thepurpose sports serve.
That's what we were talkingabout a second ago.
Sports are a good thing.
It's not this sin issue that wehave to eradicate.
So that's why it's not justthis black and white like pick
(03:16):
pick youth group over sports.
Well, families are very drawnto sports for a lot of reasons.
Belonging it's a sense ofbelonging and involvement and
boosts kids' confidence.
You learn teamwork.
You use your gifts and talents,even physical fitness.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You know there's a whole lot of art of winning and
losing and how to successfullynavigate both.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, like the whole emotional side of it and
building your character, likeyou said.
Like, yeah, all of those.
So what I was thinking aboutthis week is all of those are
real benefits of sports.
Do we have opportunities in ouryouth groups that meet those
(04:03):
needs?
So it might not meet it theexact same way, but I think it's
worth learning a lesson or twofrom the sports culture and why
it's so enticing and why it's soexciting and why parents want
their kids involved in it.
We are those parents, like Isaid, our daughter's on the
basketball team.
So does youth group.
(04:25):
Not that we're trying tocompete apples to apples,
necessarily, because youth groupis different than a sports team
.
However, getting kind of morebelow the surface and asking
ourselves is that felt need,having the opportunity to be met
here?
as well so.
So, for example, do studentshave a way to truly belong at
(04:49):
your youth group?
Now, all of these, what I'mtrying to get at is we need to
make our youth groups asirresistible as possible.
So we're going after what isthe felt need elsewhere and how
can I incorporate that here?
So do they have an opportunityto belong?
We accomplish that throughsmall groups, through kids
(05:13):
having a place where they'reknown by their peers, by their
consistent adult leaders.
That is where we're just.
That's our discipleship model.
That's where you're seen,you're known, you're loved, you
belong.
Teamwork is another thing, likeat sports, so do we have that
reflected in youth group as well?
Well, our student leadershipteam works together as a team to
(05:37):
do their different jobs atyouth group, and they feel like
they're a part of the biggerpicture.
They have real roles andresponsibilities, and that is an
enticement of sports, is you'relearning how to be a
responsible person, and it's aconfidence boost.
So, do we have opportunities forstudents to use, like sports,
(05:59):
their gifts, their talents,their ability?
Do you let students use thetech booth and make the night
happen on a tech level?
Do you have students who get toplay instruments in the worship
team?
Do you have students who coulddo hand motions, you know, for
the fast songs?
Do you have students working inthe snack shack?
Do you have students helpingyou in the office?
That's a tough one, but theylove it, and so finding ways for
(06:25):
students to use these giftsbecause, again, sports are
magnetic, because it's a placewhere they belong and can use
their gifts.
And they're on, they're not onthe sidelines.
Nobody wants to join a sportsteam and sit on the bench the
entire season and watch everyoneelse play.
That's the same as youth groupLike.
For a while maybe you want toshow up and just see how things
(06:49):
are working, but after a whileyou want to get in the game.
You want to make things happen,you want to have a role, you
want to have a contribution.
So we have to make sure thatour students know that we have
those opportunities.
Or maybe we need to askourselves do we have those
opportunities?
And if not, that could belacking.
And now sports has a leg up onus and they might just think, ah
(07:13):
well, church is good enough,you know, like they go to church
on the weekend.
Right, we just can't make it.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Hopefully, because sometimes there's sports even
competing with that True.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, those Sunday morning baseball morning
baseball games.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I'm like nothing's off limits anymore right.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
so we've got to make sure like I hate using this word
, but this is the concept that'scoming to mind we've got to
stay competitive.
You know sports analogy, um,with what is the felt need there
?
And can I deliver that in adifferent way, because clearly
this is attractive?
So, instead of fighting it andbeing like, well, church is
(07:49):
better, well duh, we know that,but can we get people?
Can we get them there with us?
I mean and this might even be astretch, but like the aspect of
physical fitness, you know, youdon.
You don't think I'm going to goto church to get yoked, but you
could.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Equally yoked perhaps .
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Ah, yes, good, good illustration.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
But it's like what if the kids came early for an hour
and you set up a ultimatefootball tournament or ultimate
Frisbee or dodgeball tournamentone week, or a kickball
tournament one week and they hadthe opportunity to run around
and be physical and get that outand you could make it more
organized.
A lot of churches have havelike little sports leagues that
(08:33):
they do, like the softball orwhatever, because it does have
value, that togetherness, thatbonding, that playing together,
that teamwork.
So again, we're not trying tofight the sports culture, we're
like what can we learn and adoptfor our purposes and use it to
our advantage?
You know, and it's like that,saying like if you can't beat
(08:55):
them, join them.
It's kind of how I feel aboutthis again, because there's
nothing wrong with sports, butwe are in this tug of war for
time and commitment becausethere's only so many things
people can be involved in and wewant to be the top of their
list because as youth pastors.
We know, like I know, ourdaughter is not going to play
for the WNBA you know what Imean, like but I'm hoping she's
(09:18):
going to be a Christian and apart of the church forever.
So that's what we're trying toget parents to understand.
Is like yes, sports areimportant, but not if you have
to give up something excellentfor something good you know like
then then it's not worth itanymore.
And so, number two, here's a.
(09:41):
Sometimes we ask these types ofquestions that kind of cause
you to like pause and reflectand be real and and you know
this is hard, maybe likesubjectively, for you to answer.
So I don't know, maybe you needsomeone else speaking into this
, but is your youth group worth?
missing sports, for I don't know.
(10:03):
I mean, I would like to think,well, yes, no matter what,
church should always be numberone, no matter what.
But the reality is, you know,like how you sometimes go
somewhere and you're like well,I was always in two hours, right
, you know, like I could havedone without that.
I?
There's so many other things Iwish I would have done with my
(10:23):
time, because it wasn't fruitful.
I didn't grow, it wasn'tmeaningful, it wasn't enjoyable.
I went out of obligation orguilt, not because I'm true
desire to be there, yeah exactly, and so I kind of feel like
what?
like we need to ask familieswhat is worth prioritizing and
(10:45):
working around.
So why should it always be oneway Meaning, like a family might
say how can we make church fitour sports schedule?
But what the point we want toget them to is how can I make
sports fit my church schedule?
Right, obviously, sports fit mychurch schedule, obviously.
(11:09):
So I mean we have kids in ouryouth group that 100% do not
want to miss a Tuesday night,and so, posing the same question
to you is your youth group soirresistible that kids would be
devastated to miss a Tuesday orWednesday or whatever night you
do it, and sports might pale incomparison, like I know.
(11:30):
For us, if the basketballseason practices had been on
Tuesdays during youth group, Iwould have been like, well,
we're not going to do it then.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Like it would have been an easy no, and I know I'm
obviously biased because I'm theyouth pastor, so well, or a
very minimum.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It would have been a conversation with the coach just
to say, hey, I have this priorobligation of youth group that I
attend, I love to go to.
I'm not going to be able topractice during that time and if
that was a deal breaker, thenthat's something that we would
have to deal with, whichobviously means it would
breaking the deal.
We wouldn't go there, go to abasketball, but you know, that's
just something that you canwork out with a coach and
(12:06):
hopefully there'd be anunderstanding there as well.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
But that's neither here nor there, so keep going no
, that's a good point because,like you know, thinking back to
making it a hard decision, like,if we want families to choose
us, we've got to give them areason to.
You know, like you, I thinkit's so tempting in this space
to be like well, you should knowthe right answer.
(12:30):
Like you should like it shouldbe important to you.
Okay, that's totally irrelevantto this conversation.
We can't just look down onpeople who have a heavy sports
schedule and say you should knowbetter.
Oh well, it's like okay, well,if I can't convince you that
(12:52):
church is more important thansports, then let me show you
what you're missing out on.
And then the onus becomes on usa little bit Like well, prove
it to me.
Prove why spending a Wednesdaywith you is better than spending
a Wednesday at the ball field.
And what are we bringing to thetable?
Are we just relying on the factwell, trump card, it's church.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So so we win, and if you don't agree, you're not
spiritually mature, right?
Clearly it's like ah, maybethat's how you feel deep down
and I get that.
However, that's just notreality.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
That's just not where we're operating, and you know
that and kind of as a side note,even as you're saying that,
like you as the youth pastor,please don't guilt trip a
student that is you don't seefor a season or whatever,
because of practice or becauseof games.
The last thing that they'regoing to want to hear is you
coming down on them like wherewere you?
(13:49):
Oh, was that more importantthan church?
or all these kind of subtleguilt trip things, whereas say
it's so good to see you, like wemissed you, like it's great
that you know that you're here,you know all those type of
things, encouraging them not somuch slamming them for like,
well, you know, if yourpriorities were straight,
obviously you would have beennot always.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Backfires totally every single time and I've heard
from students, you know,throughout the years who have
some youth pastor has saidsomething like that to them and
it always backfires and thenthey retreat even further
instead of just being excitedthat they're there.
It's like where have you been?
Well, clearly you're not astrong Christian, even if you're
(14:30):
joking.
They're probably feelinginsecure about like yeah, I
haven't been here in a while,instead of just like, oh my gosh
, ah, things are so much betternow.
I missed you, whatever.
But I love that you broughtthat up, not guilting them into
well, if you were a trueChristian, you would be here.
(14:51):
I love what Craig Groeschelsays.
One of the pieces of theirmission statement for Life
Church is we will do anythingshort of sin to reach people who
don't know Christ, and I lovethat concept of fighting for
these people not being like well, when you're ready to be a real
(15:12):
Christian we'll be waiting, butit's like this idea of going
after them, fighting for them,meeting them where they're at,
meeting them in their spiritualimmaturity, until because here's
what's at stake it's the gospeland that's a big, big deal.
So if we have to be a morerobust youth ministry and learn
(15:39):
something from the sportsculture so that we can get them
in, so be it.
So here's a way to ask thequestion to yourself as well Is
my youth group everything that aparent or a student could want
Right?
And there could be an area thatwe're lacking, like maybe like
the areas we were talking aboutearlier.
You don't have a studentleadership team.
(16:00):
You don't do any fun events.
There isn't a way to getinvolved.
We don't have small groups.
I don't know how to connect withpeople my own age, I'm not
growing spiritually.
The messages are too watereddown, worship isn't meaningful,
like the leaders aren't present,whatever it is like.
Don't give them a reason tochoose something else.
(16:23):
Be working so hard to beeverything that a and I know
what probably a lot of peopleare thinking like.
Well, that's consumerChristianity, like making the
attendee the customer, and tothat I would say what Craig
Groeschel says I will doanything short of sin to get you
here.
So if I have to plan a funevent and play some fun music
(16:47):
and play a fun game so that Ican get you to understand who
Jesus is and what he's done foryou, oh, well like that is a
small price to pay for somebodyhearing the gospel, and that I
am more than willing to pay that.
I am not too good to make churchwhat the customer wants, and
(17:09):
I'm sure many people disagreewith that, and I even disagree
with it, you know, like, as Isay it, but, however, I just
don't know another way likemeeting the felt needs of the
people that we're trying toreach.
I don't think that's a, it's a,it's not a bad thing, it's just
(17:30):
a thing I wish were different,you know.
But I feel like as a pastor,I've come to just really embrace
what is not.
What I wish was, you know, andthen my ministry becomes more
effective.
And again he said short of sin,I'm not sinning, I'm not
willing to sin to reach someone.
(17:51):
That's counterintuitive.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, and also the main point, like you're saying,
is not so much to do the eventsand do all the fun and games and
this and that, and there's nogospel, like there're saying, is
not so much to do the eventsand do all the fun and games and
this and that, and there's nogospel, like there's no truth
being taught.
It's the complete opposite.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
It's just that those are some of the things that can
get kids in the door.
I mean just, it's a fact.
Yeah, there's so many otherthings, sports included,
competing with their time.
Why is church going to be theone thing that they dread going
to?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Right.
So use that strategy.
Use strategy of how can I meetthose needs that would cause you
to choose something else overus.
What can I do here?
So another question to askyourself this is like number
three how is your communicationwith parents?
Are you always on their radar?
And with this, the concept hereis don't let them forget about
you.
You know it's just like oh,that one church, yeah, Aren't
they meeting on Wednesday?
(18:50):
I don't know.
I don't really ever hearanything about it.
You've got to be marketingyourself, communicating, letting
people know we are here.
We have stuff going on, We'vegot exciting stuff going on and
seriously, as a parent, I preferyouth group over sports because
, number one, it's free.
Number two, I don't have to gotravel and go to all these games
(19:13):
and practices and stuff.
It's a Christian centeredenvironment and my kid still
gets all the benefits of growthof her character, but it's
around her spiritual life.
So I would choose that everysingle time.
But don't let these otherparents forget about you.
(19:34):
Make sure you're posting, makesure you're emailing, make sure
you're on campuses.
Sure you're emailing, make sureyou're on campuses and you're
involved in the community.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
People see you out and about and you're making
connections like, and one ofthose places you should be is at
the sporting events that thesekids are going to yeah, support
them and assuming it's on adifferent night than your youth
group.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Obviously yes support them in their sports, their
games, their performances, theirperformances, whatever it is,
but become noisy.
You know, like, market yourselfwell of like, this is something
you want to be a part of.
This is something that'shappening.
This is something that has abuzz and energy and vibrancy,
and then let that be sharedamong parents too.
(20:16):
So get on their radar and stayon their radar, and I think
that's a good way to draw peopleand parents' interest toward
you.
What's that thing going on onWednesday nights?
And, um, oh, yeah, I met him orher.
Oh, that was a youth pastor,like a familiar face or some
(20:37):
kind of interaction that letspeople know I'm a member of this
community, I'm a fan of thiscommunity, I'm on campuses, I
have a presence, and that willbe like an incredible marketing
tool to get people to say, hey,like, maybe there's something to
this, maybe we should try itout.
Hey, friend, I just want tointerrupt this episode for a
(20:58):
second to let you know about anawesome opportunity for you and
your youth ministry.
So last year we launched ourcourse and coaching program
called Youth Ministry GrowthAccelerator and the response has
been amazing.
So we've helped tons of youthpastors grow the size and health
of their youth ministry, and wewant to invite you to be a part
(21:18):
of that as well, because maybeyou're just sort of feeling
stuck in a rut.
Maybe you don't know what to donext, maybe you just have a
vague plan in your mind of whatyou're doing and you want some
real help to get you from whereyou are to where you want to go.
So if that sounds likesomething you've been looking
for, go togrowyouryouthministrycom and
check it out for more details.
(21:39):
All right, let's get back tothe episode.
And then another thing is do youmake it easy for families this
would be like number four Do youmake it easy for families to
come to your youth group?
So real, practically.
Here's why it's hard for somesports families to go to youth
group.
Sports practice might endwithin enough time for their kid
(22:04):
to go to youth group, but thenthey're hungry, they're tired,
they might have homework.
So one thing and I didn't go inwith this intention, but this
is what has really helped oursports families is we sell pizza
every Tuesday night, and so ifa mom or dad is bringing their
kid and doesn't have enough timeto stop by home and get them
(22:26):
dinner or go through a drivethrough or something like that,
send them with three bucks andthey can get two pieces of pizza
and that's dinner.
Yeah, that's done.
And they'll even come in theirbaseball uniforms and they'll
just be eating pizza and gostraight into youth group and go
straight into youth group.
A mom texted me last week andshe's like my son's going to be
a little late.
(22:46):
Can you please save him twopieces of pizza?
He'll pay you when he getsthere, but I just want to make
sure it's not gone, because thisis what I'm counting on for
dinner.
I'm like, absolutely, and shegoes.
Okay, he's so embarrassed, butI told him it's okay, like you
(23:11):
know.
And I'm like, who cares?
You don't need to beembarrassed, we'll just set it
aside for you.
And it just made me realize,like this is another, we're
removing one more barrier forthem for coming, or let them
come a little early, like, anddo their homework.
Like our daughter does that,but it's our daughter.
But like you're taking theother one to gymnastics and when
am I going to be able to dropyou off?
So she'll just sit in one ofthe cafe tables and do her
homework.
Could you open youth, the youthroom a little early and kids can
(23:31):
sit in, you know whatever spaceyou have available and just
kind of get a half hour ofhomework done.
So parents aren't like do we goall the way home and then do we
go back and we're coming fromthe ball field and then do we go
, so just say like, hey, send mea little text, a heads up, and
bring them a little early.
(23:52):
They can sit there quietly anddo their homework.
You know, and I have a lot ofkids that their parents are like
I have a Bible study I can'tbring you.
Can I just drop them off a halfan hour early?
And we're there, we're justsetting up and kids will just
kind of hang out.
And the cherry on top of thatwould be if you had like a
(24:12):
leader who would go early andlike help.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Tutor.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, like help them with their homework.
Yeah, like that's a parent'sdream Free tutoring.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Come on now.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Like I can get my kid their homework done.
Tutoring dinner.
Yes so yeah, worship message,small groups, like it is.
I have realized now that I havea kid in youth group.
It is a parent's dream cometrue.
Like so many years.
(24:42):
Parents would thank me andthey'd be like thank you so much
for what you do, like it'smeant so much to our family and
I.
I was appreciative of theircompliments.
I was like you're welcome, youknow, but I didn't feel it until
I had a kid in the youth group.
I'm like this is gold.
Like I get to send my kid to afree program every week with
(25:03):
caring adults who are trying topoint them to Jesus, where they
are learning how to worship, howto read the Bible, how to study
the Bible.
They have community that arebeing pointed in the right
direction.
There's other adults besides methat are loving them and
mentoring them and teaching them.
They have a sense of community.
They can use their gifts andtheir talents and they're having
(25:25):
fun and they're begging to goand they don't want to miss it.
I don't know if, as a parent, Idon't know of anything like
that.
You send your kid to school.
Maybe they like it, maybe theydon't, but they're not like
please don't let me miss school.
It's the funnest thing.
Maybe they tolerate it.
Some kids like it more thanothers.
Maybe their sports teams theyget very excited about.
But there's very few things inlife like this and that's what
(25:49):
we want to showcase to familiesof like.
You are missing out if you arenot here.
We're going to teach your kidhow much God loves them, how
they can walk with him for therest of their lives, and when
the parents start seeing thefruit of that in their kids
lives, they will 100 make suretheir kid gets there yeah we
(26:11):
have parents who use our youthgroup as a bargaining chip with
their kids and like you don'tget your homework done, you
can't go, you know.
Or you don't clean your room,you, you can't go.
It's like no.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
And we even had a coach and not that you want them
to pit and make that like apunishment.
However, it shows theimportance to the student how
much they want to be there.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, which I love, and we even had a baseball coach
change the nights of hispractice and the games for us
and that felt, as a youth pastor, the biggest victory because we
are always playing secondfiddle to that's such an old
term.
I played second fiddle to thesports.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Now you're playing first fiddle.
Yes, good job.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Thank you.
That's not a fiddle.
If you're a musical person.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Can you tell me what that was, please?
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Because we don't know what instrument did.
I just say Like it felt likesuch a victory, because it's
always like we're working aroundthe sports schedule and should
we move the night of our youthgroup Because everyone's
practice?
No, don't move it, you know,because then you have to move it
again and then you're justaccommodating everything at one
point.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Let's touch on that.
Hold your thought, but beforewe move on, I want to touch on
that.
That's a very popular thing todo is to move the day of your
youth group, and we talked aboutthis just the other day.
You had opinions on.
I have opinions on it.
They're both kind of the sameopinions.
I thought yours were better,even than mine.
The first thought I had was ifyou were going to go so far as
to change the night and time ofyour youth group, that's fine,
(27:50):
but, like you're saying, it nowhas to be the new permanent yeah
and you can't like.
Well, football season, a lot ofkids practice this day and
friday night game, so we can'tdo that.
We'll move it to tuesday.
But during the spring there'sbaseball and they play too, so
then in that season we'll moveit to wednesday, like no.
I don't know if you guysremember the show uh arrested
development.
(28:10):
I don't remember what networkit was on, but they say one of
the reasons why it never caughton was because they were
constantly changing the time andthe day interesting and now
it's like a cult classic, butit's like at the time people
couldn't figure out where it wasand it didn't become.
This is back with like typical,like it's thursday night and we
always watch you know, whateverit never caught on because of
(28:32):
the fact that it's like youcouldn't get into a rhythm and
and like youth group being likewe meet every night with weather
aren't every night the kidswould love that we meet every
week minus a couple.
We don't stop during summer,like it becomes that this night
of the week, at this time it'sguaranteed.
It's always a part of myschedule.
(28:52):
So, with all that said, ifyou're going to change the date,
it has to remain the same, andthen that'll be it.
Like, yeah, if you're.
If you just find that you're ona bad day, switch it and that's
it yeah.
A lot of people will choosebecause of all these things that
could be on different days,sunday night and this is kind of
the conversation we had.
So my thought in that was I'mnot a big fan of Sunday night.
(29:16):
And this comes with just thecaveat If Sunday night works for
you and your youth group isgrowing thriving, stick with
sunday night, don't changeanything.
However, my thought is you havechurch sunday morning and then
you have youth group sundaynight, and then you say see, in
a week, yeah, I like the idea ofhaving something mid-week
(29:40):
because it breaks up like, yeah,you're getting poured into
every few days.
Yeah, sunday, wednesday, sundaywednesday, and then if there's
an event, it's another thingversus sunday sunday wow, you're
such a so dramatic, dramaticactor.
Sunday and see sunday, you seethe difference?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
did you see the difference there?
Did you like?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
no, did you hear the difference?
It was a long.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
First I was like sunday, wednesday sunday.
Did you see the frequency?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
kind of like you can jive to it, but no, if there's
that long pause, no, hey yeah,it's just different.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You're right.
You got my point, yeah, loudand clear.
You brought up something elsethank you.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
You brought up something else, though, about
sunday versus like a midweek, inwhich was what?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
oh, I thought you're gonna say it.
Uh, well, I was just, and againlike the caveat you said if
you're doing this and it'sthriving, case closed for you,
good, good on you.
But I'm just like I would thinkit would be difficult for a
family to be like doing both,like we already had church, you
know, like we already had churchthis morning.
(30:53):
We're gonna skip tonightinstead of like back to back
church.
Like church in the morning,church in the evening, church at
supper time you also.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You also are like sunday is traditionally a family
day.
We go to church together.
Wow, that really rocked you, Igot too, crazy.
We a lot of times sunday is afamily day.
You go to church together andthen you spend the rest of the
day, but then all of a suddenyou're like, and then we're
gonna send you back yeah, Iwould just think at some point
families would just kind ofchoose one or the other right
(31:24):
Right.
That's not.
You did mention that, butthat's not the one I'm talking
about.
You said, when they're inschool and it's midweek, that's
when kids start talking.
Are you going to youth grouptonight?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
You can't miss youth group tonight.
And that like word of mouthmarketing, which is gold, and
then if you can get on campusthat day, you know, or like one
of our Christian clubs is on aMonday, Sometimes I can go and I
love being able to see are youcoming to chaos tomorrow?
Are you coming tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
coming tomorrow and I'm like talking to their
friends and meeting theirfriends, I'm like you should
bring them tomorrow, like cometo our youth group and so when
it's all on Sunday, you don'tget that same energy.
Or the kids will go home witheach other on a Tuesday so that
they can ride together and theyplan their own little social
things, so that they can show upat the same time and they
(32:14):
create community around ourcommunity and want to be a part
of it together.
But yeah, it doesn't have thatsame buzz and energy on the
weekend because they're notpresent with each other
necessarily.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Outside of their people at church.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Already see and saying are you going to youth
groups?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
It's not as magnetic, it doesn't have the same pull
as like in one cool thing, too.
This is kind of an aside.
One cool thing, too this iskind of an aside, but speaking
of the school thing, when youput out merch, if it's cool
stuff like, we did this awesomeshirt I can't take credit for it
, but two of my staff membersdesigned it.
It says Jesus is King on theback and all the kids wanted it
(32:57):
and it was written in thisreally cool font.
I don't know what was it Kindof like graffiti.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Not bubble letters but kind of whatever, and they
loved it and they all wore it toschool, and so you just see
this little crew.
Like ever, you could just seeall the youth group kids, right?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
and seeing one is kind of like okay, whatever,
seeing it was like a movement.
You're like what is this?
What is this?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
what's going on.
So if you don't do merch I wasnever a huge fan of merch I was
felt like it was a waste of mytime.
But seeing how they all wear itand it's like almost this, like
movement, and it's kind of awitnessing tool in a way,
instead of just having likechaos.
You know, like your youth groupname, like we were putting
(33:42):
phrases like Jesus is king orGod is good all the time, or you
know, like that Jesus wearthat's really popular.
Now we were kind of adoptingthose concepts and giving it to
them.
We should do an episode onmerch.
I'm going way off topic, butall I had to say at school it
creates a buzz.
So midweek is very good for foryouth group, but we were
talking about making it easy forfamilies to get there on a busy
(34:05):
school night food homework.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Whatever, bring it back, bring it back.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
And lastly, number five.
We have already been talkingabout this, so I guess I jumped
ahead by accident, but I wasgoing to say have a community
presence, but I think I wovethat in somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, and a big thing too and you kind of touched on
this is that bond with theparents, partnering with the
parents, like letting them knowhow important youth ministry is
and being it shouldn't.
Parents should not be thisseparate part that you don't
ever talk to or discuss, and youknow things like that.
They need to be an active partof your youth ministry.
And actually we did a wholeepisode about how to get parents
(34:42):
more involved in youth ministry, because when they're involved,
when they're invested, it's oneof those things where they want
their kids to be there.
You don't want it to be justlike oh, go to youth group or
don't go to youth group, I don'tcare, either way, you know you
want that to be the priority fortheir kids lives.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, and I would say actually kind of going back to
the, making it easy.
And then you brought up parents.
I thought of, like on the backend as well.
So like, yeah, we have dinnerfor them or they can come early
and get their homework done, orwhatever it might be.
You can drop them off early ifyou have somewhere else to go.
But then on the back end,remembering it's a school night
(35:18):
and their kids are already tired, get out on time and get them
out right away.
So many pastors go long becausemaybe they feel like the spirit
is moving through their talk andthey don't want to, you know,
cut it off or something.
And I'm sure everything youhave to say was very good, but
you need to say it by the timeyou said you were going to be
(35:41):
done.
And some churches like getcriticism, like you're too,
you're too staunch on yourprogram, like where's the room
just to be free and let ministryjust go, and I feel like, yes,
again, what?
What do I wish was like andwhat is reality?
But the reality is, if I'm in,if I'm a parent, and it's 8 30
(36:04):
on a school night and you wenttill 8 45 and I've been sitting
there and my kid still has totake a shower and make their
lunch do homework and put outalready.
I'm just you're gonna losepoints with me because you, you
can't come out to every car andgo, no, but you want to know
what the holy spirit was justgoing and if it was during small
groups, it might not have beentheir small group.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
You know what I mean.
Like so I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
But it's like that thing where it's like you can do
effective ministry and let theHoly Spirit move and let the
Holy Spirit, like, speak and goand be attuned to where he wants
to go that night.
But you can also temper thatwith being true to your word,
like so I, oh like, it just hitme.
(36:48):
I don't know that the HolySpirit would ever want us to not
follow through on a promise wemade.
Like, how do those things existat the same time Because that's
the excuse pastors give all thetime.
But wouldn't the Holy Spiritsay be true to your word.
If you promised this thing endsat eight 30 and you want your
(37:09):
integrity and honesty to remain,then you get them out at eight
30.
Don't blame it on me.
You know that I made you late,you know, and I wonder how much
of that is just like our.
I don't know if it's pride orlack of discipline, I don't know
what it is, but like when youget in the zone and I've been
there where I'm teaching andit's flowing I feel like you're
(37:31):
in the zone right now.
I'm in the zone and I feelreally bad.
I spoke at a winter camp thisseason and I was having one of
those moments where I'm likethis is fire right now, fire
from heaven, and I let them outtoo late.
We almost missed dinner.
There was a big debacle withthe kitchen, someone got yelled
(37:52):
at and it was a mess because Iwent too late, you know, and I
felt irresponsible because Ididn't deliver what I said I
would.
You told me 45 minutes and Iwent 55 and it ruined the night,
you know.
So would the Holy Spirit say,nope, forget what you said
earlier, we're going tillmidnight.
(38:14):
Or would he say you know what Imean, like I don't know, that
he would want us to not followthrough on our commitment and
then blame it on him?
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Right, I don't know, it's just a thought Definitely
up for debate.
We had talked earlier.
This is a question of the day.
You had already kind ofanswered it.
But what is the sport in yourarea that is the predominant one
that you guys tend to battlewith for a youth group versus
sports for us, generally it'sbaseball a little bit football,
but I would say definitely thosetwo baseball by far, baseball a
(38:43):
little bit football, but Iwould say definitely those two
Baseball by far.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah, baseball.
The boys have these sparklynecklaces.
Have you seen them?
They're all wearing them atchurch.
They're like these balls thatare like really glittery red,
white and blue and all thebaseball boys wear them.
They wear their uniforms tochurch on Sunday, they wear them
to youth group on Tuesday.
It's like you know the baseballkids, yeah In.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Southern California, there's never a non-baseball
season because of the weather,so there's winter ball, summer
ball, travel ball, baseball,this ball you know.
So, anyways, put in the commentsection below what is the sport
you constantly are battlingwith.
This is the community commentof the day, which comes from
Michael Taylor, who says thankyou both for this channel.
It has been a tremendous asset,and I couldn't agree more with
(39:25):
what you said about God leadingyou to what you need when you
need it.
I inherited a youth program alittle over a month ago that
often had zero kids showing up.
Wow, thanks to God, first andforemost, and to your videos and
advice, we have had 10 plus thelast two weeks.
You guys are my go-to on here.
Please pray for our youth group.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Awesome.
Thank you, michael, I reallyappreciate that.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
And we do frequently pray for youth groups out there,
either specifically or ingeneral.
We are always praying for youryouth groups that you are
growing, that you are healthyand that kids are getting fed,
Love it Well.
Thank you guys.
So much for watching andlistening and we'll see you next
time.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Are you consistently in the battle of youth group
versus sports?
Well, today we're going to giveyou five ways to navigate it.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Today we're talking about the battle for your
students.
Attention, attention.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
The age old battle the age old.
Is that the same age old?
Today we're talking about five ways to help you
navigate the tension betweenyouth group and sports.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast.
Today we're talking all aboutthe battle for your students'
commitment.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
My name is Jeff Laskola and this is Kristen
Laskola, and today we're goingto talk about something that has
been plaguing and bugging youthpastors since the dawn of youth
ministry, and that is sportsversus youth group who will win,
who will be victorious?
It's a battle we are allfamiliar with, and I hear youth
(00:45):
pastors talk about all the timewhere, when their attendance
dips, they point to a lot ofthings, and one of them is we
have a lot of football playersor baseball players and,
depending what kind of communityyou live in, that can determine
the intensity of the passionfor sports and how intense this
(01:05):
tug of war for time andcommitment that you're involved
in.
Like if you're in a communitythat highly, highly prizes
baseball, that's our sport.
I feel like in our well, withthe junior hires specifically.
Maybe when they get to highschool it's more football, but
for my junior hires it'sbaseball, baseball, baseball
(01:26):
baseball.
That's all we ever hear about,that's all they're doing on the
weekends, and so I don't knowwhat that is for your community.
But it's a real thing and asyouth pastors it's a little bit
discouraging at times becauseyou so badly want students to
prioritize youth group.
And you know, know, deep down,sports are not bad, you know,
(01:50):
like we're not talking about,like choose us over your life of
sin you know it's like wellsports are great you know,
and we're a sports parents.
We are sports parents.
Now our daughter is on thebasketball team, and so now I
can actually do this episodefrom real experience on how this
(02:10):
tension works.
And sports are great.
There's a lot as a parent thatyou're like I want my kids
involved in sports for thesereasons, and we're going to talk
about that in a second.
But how do we ask them to pickus when it's like well, sports
are also good.
Now I feel like it's thedifference and I know our
(02:33):
audience does too of like yeah,sports are good, but youth group
is great, church is excellent.
Like how could you even comparethose two things?
And so today we're going totalk about five different ways
we can help navigate this topicas youth pastors and position
ourselves in the most favorableplace possible to hopefully win
(02:56):
over the hearts of our youth sothat they will pick us, pick me,
okay.
So, number one think about thepurpose sports serve.
That's what we were talkingabout a second ago.
Sports are a good thing.
It's not this sin issue that wehave to eradicate.
So that's why it's not justthis black and white like pick
(03:16):
pick youth group over sports.
Well, families are very drawnto sports for a lot of reasons.
Belonging it's a sense ofbelonging and involvement and
boosts kids' confidence.
You learn teamwork.
You use your gifts and talents,even physical fitness.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You know there's a whole lot of art of winning and
losing and how to successfullynavigate both.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, like the whole emotional side of it and
building your character, likeyou said.
Like, yeah, all of those.
So what I was thinking aboutthis week is all of those are
real benefits of sports.
Do we have opportunities in ouryouth groups that meet those
(04:03):
needs?
So it might not meet it theexact same way, but I think it's
worth learning a lesson or twofrom the sports culture and why
it's so enticing and why it's soexciting and why parents want
their kids involved in it.
We are those parents, like Isaid, our daughter's on the
basketball team.
So does youth group.
(04:25):
Not that we're trying tocompete apples to apples,
necessarily, because youth groupis different than a sports team
.
However, getting kind of morebelow the surface and asking
ourselves is that felt need,having the opportunity to be met
here?
as well so.
So, for example, do studentshave a way to truly belong at
(04:49):
your youth group?
Now, all of these, what I'mtrying to get at is we need to
make our youth groups asirresistible as possible.
So we're going after what isthe felt need elsewhere and how
can I incorporate that here?
So do they have an opportunityto belong?
We accomplish that throughsmall groups, through kids
(05:13):
having a place where they'reknown by their peers, by their
consistent adult leaders.
That is where we're just.
That's our discipleship model.
That's where you're seen,you're known, you're loved, you
belong.
Teamwork is another thing, likeat sports, so do we have that
reflected in youth group as well?
Well, our student leadershipteam works together as a team to
(05:37):
do their different jobs atyouth group, and they feel like
they're a part of the biggerpicture.
They have real roles andresponsibilities, and that is an
enticement of sports, is you'relearning how to be a
responsible person, and it's aconfidence boost.
So, do we have opportunities forstudents to use, like sports,
(05:59):
their gifts, their talents,their ability?
Do you let students use thetech booth and make the night
happen on a tech level?
Do you have students who get toplay instruments in the worship
team?
Do you have students who coulddo hand motions, you know, for
the fast songs?
Do you have students working inthe snack shack?
Do you have students helpingyou in the office?
That's a tough one, but theylove it, and so finding ways for
(06:25):
students to use these giftsbecause, again, sports are
magnetic, because it's a placewhere they belong and can use
their gifts.
And they're on, they're not onthe sidelines.
Nobody wants to join a sportsteam and sit on the bench the
entire season and watch everyoneelse play.
That's the same as youth groupLike.
For a while maybe you want toshow up and just see how things
(06:49):
are working, but after a whileyou want to get in the game.
You want to make things happen,you want to have a role, you
want to have a contribution.
So we have to make sure thatour students know that we have
those opportunities.
Or maybe we need to askourselves do we have those
opportunities?
And if not, that could belacking.
And now sports has a leg up onus and they might just think, ah
(07:13):
well, church is good enough,you know, like they go to church
on the weekend.
Right, we just can't make it.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Hopefully, because sometimes there's sports even
competing with that True.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, those Sunday morning baseball morning
baseball games.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I'm like nothing's off limits anymore right.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
so we've got to make sure like I hate using this word
, but this is the concept that'scoming to mind we've got to
stay competitive.
You know sports analogy, um,with what is the felt need there
?
And can I deliver that in adifferent way, because clearly
this is attractive?
So, instead of fighting it andbeing like, well, church is
(07:49):
better, well duh, we know that,but can we get people?
Can we get them there with us?
I mean and this might even be astretch, but like the aspect of
physical fitness, you know, youdon.
You don't think I'm going to goto church to get yoked, but you
could.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Equally yoked perhaps .
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Ah, yes, good, good illustration.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
But it's like what if the kids came early for an hour
and you set up a ultimatefootball tournament or ultimate
Frisbee or dodgeball tournamentone week, or a kickball
tournament one week and they hadthe opportunity to run around
and be physical and get that outand you could make it more
organized.
A lot of churches have havelike little sports leagues that
(08:33):
they do, like the softball orwhatever, because it does have
value, that togetherness, thatbonding, that playing together,
that teamwork.
So again, we're not trying tofight the sports culture, we're
like what can we learn and adoptfor our purposes and use it to
our advantage?
You know, and it's like that,saying like if you can't beat
(08:55):
them, join them.
It's kind of how I feel aboutthis again, because there's
nothing wrong with sports, butwe are in this tug of war for
time and commitment becausethere's only so many things
people can be involved in and wewant to be the top of their
list because as youth pastors.
We know, like I know, ourdaughter is not going to play
for the WNBA you know what Imean, like but I'm hoping she's
(09:18):
going to be a Christian and apart of the church forever.
So that's what we're trying toget parents to understand.
Is like yes, sports areimportant, but not if you have
to give up something excellentfor something good you know like
then then it's not worth itanymore.
And so, number two, here's a.
(09:41):
Sometimes we ask these types ofquestions that kind of cause
you to like pause and reflectand be real and and you know
this is hard, maybe likesubjectively, for you to answer.
So I don't know, maybe you needsomeone else speaking into this
, but is your youth group worth?
missing sports, for I don't know.
(10:03):
I mean, I would like to think,well, yes, no matter what,
church should always be numberone, no matter what.
But the reality is, you know,like how you sometimes go
somewhere and you're like well,I was always in two hours, right
, you know, like I could havedone without that.
I?
There's so many other things Iwish I would have done with my
(10:23):
time, because it wasn't fruitful.
I didn't grow, it wasn'tmeaningful, it wasn't enjoyable.
I went out of obligation orguilt, not because I'm true
desire to be there, yeah exactly, and so I kind of feel like
what?
like we need to ask familieswhat is worth prioritizing and
(10:45):
working around.
So why should it always be oneway Meaning, like a family might
say how can we make church fitour sports schedule?
But what the point we want toget them to is how can I make
sports fit my church schedule?
Right, obviously, sports fit mychurch schedule, obviously.
(11:09):
So I mean we have kids in ouryouth group that 100% do not
want to miss a Tuesday night,and so, posing the same question
to you is your youth group soirresistible that kids would be
devastated to miss a Tuesday orWednesday or whatever night you
do it, and sports might pale incomparison, like I know.
(11:30):
For us, if the basketballseason practices had been on
Tuesdays during youth group, Iwould have been like, well,
we're not going to do it then.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Like it would have been an easy no, and I know I'm
obviously biased because I'm theyouth pastor, so well, or a
very minimum.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It would have been a conversation with the coach just
to say, hey, I have this priorobligation of youth group that I
attend, I love to go to.
I'm not going to be able topractice during that time and if
that was a deal breaker, thenthat's something that we would
have to deal with, whichobviously means it would
breaking the deal.
We wouldn't go there, go to abasketball, but you know, that's
just something that you canwork out with a coach and
(12:06):
hopefully there'd be anunderstanding there as well.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
But that's neither here nor there, so keep going no
, that's a good point because,like you know, thinking back to
making it a hard decision, like,if we want families to choose
us, we've got to give them areason to.
You know, like you, I thinkit's so tempting in this space
to be like well, you should knowthe right answer.
(12:30):
Like you should like it shouldbe important to you.
Okay, that's totally irrelevantto this conversation.
We can't just look down onpeople who have a heavy sports
schedule and say you should knowbetter.
Oh well, it's like okay, well,if I can't convince you that
(12:52):
church is more important thansports, then let me show you
what you're missing out on.
And then the onus becomes on usa little bit Like well, prove
it to me.
Prove why spending a Wednesdaywith you is better than spending
a Wednesday at the ball field.
And what are we bringing to thetable?
Are we just relying on the factwell, trump card, it's church.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So so we win, and if you don't agree, you're not
spiritually mature, right?
Clearly it's like ah, maybethat's how you feel deep down
and I get that.
However, that's just notreality.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
That's just not where we're operating, and you know
that and kind of as a side note,even as you're saying that,
like you as the youth pastor,please don't guilt trip a
student that is you don't seefor a season or whatever,
because of practice or becauseof games.
The last thing that they'regoing to want to hear is you
coming down on them like wherewere you?
(13:49):
Oh, was that more importantthan church?
or all these kind of subtleguilt trip things, whereas say
it's so good to see you, like wemissed you, like it's great
that you know that you're here,you know all those type of
things, encouraging them not somuch slamming them for like,
well, you know, if yourpriorities were straight,
obviously you would have beennot always.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Backfires totally every single time and I've heard
from students, you know,throughout the years who have
some youth pastor has saidsomething like that to them and
it always backfires and thenthey retreat even further
instead of just being excitedthat they're there.
It's like where have you been?
Well, clearly you're not astrong Christian, even if you're
(14:30):
joking.
They're probably feelinginsecure about like yeah, I
haven't been here in a while,instead of just like, oh my gosh
, ah, things are so much betternow.
I missed you, whatever.
But I love that you broughtthat up, not guilting them into
well, if you were a trueChristian, you would be here.
(14:51):
I love what Craig Groeschelsays.
One of the pieces of theirmission statement for Life
Church is we will do anythingshort of sin to reach people who
don't know Christ, and I lovethat concept of fighting for
these people not being like well, when you're ready to be a real
(15:12):
Christian we'll be waiting, butit's like this idea of going
after them, fighting for them,meeting them where they're at,
meeting them in their spiritualimmaturity, until because here's
what's at stake it's the gospeland that's a big, big deal.
So if we have to be a morerobust youth ministry and learn
(15:39):
something from the sportsculture so that we can get them
in, so be it.
So here's a way to ask thequestion to yourself as well Is
my youth group everything that aparent or a student could want
Right?
And there could be an area thatwe're lacking, like maybe like
the areas we were talking aboutearlier.
You don't have a studentleadership team.
(16:00):
You don't do any fun events.
There isn't a way to getinvolved.
We don't have small groups.
I don't know how to connect withpeople my own age, I'm not
growing spiritually.
The messages are too watereddown, worship isn't meaningful,
like the leaders aren't present,whatever it is like.
Don't give them a reason tochoose something else.
(16:23):
Be working so hard to beeverything that a and I know
what probably a lot of peopleare thinking like.
Well, that's consumerChristianity, like making the
attendee the customer, and tothat I would say what Craig
Groeschel says I will doanything short of sin to get you
here.
So if I have to plan a funevent and play some fun music
(16:47):
and play a fun game so that Ican get you to understand who
Jesus is and what he's done foryou, oh, well like that is a
small price to pay for somebodyhearing the gospel, and that I
am more than willing to pay that.
I am not too good to make churchwhat the customer wants, and
(17:09):
I'm sure many people disagreewith that, and I even disagree
with it, you know, like, as Isay it, but, however, I just
don't know another way likemeeting the felt needs of the
people that we're trying toreach.
I don't think that's a, it's a,it's not a bad thing, it's just
(17:30):
a thing I wish were different,you know.
But I feel like as a pastor,I've come to just really embrace
what is not.
What I wish was, you know, andthen my ministry becomes more
effective.
And again he said short of sin,I'm not sinning, I'm not
willing to sin to reach someone.
(17:51):
That's counterintuitive.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, and also the main point, like you're saying,
is not so much to do the eventsand do all the fun and games and
this and that, and there's nogospel, like there're saying, is
not so much to do the eventsand do all the fun and games and
this and that, and there's nogospel, like there's no truth
being taught.
It's the complete opposite.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
It's just that those are some of the things that can
get kids in the door.
I mean just, it's a fact.
Yeah, there's so many otherthings, sports included,
competing with their time.
Why is church going to be theone thing that they dread going
to?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Right.
So use that strategy.
Use strategy of how can I meetthose needs that would cause you
to choose something else overus.
What can I do here?
So another question to askyourself this is like number
three how is your communicationwith parents?
Are you always on their radar?
And with this, the concept hereis don't let them forget about
you.
You know it's just like oh,that one church, yeah, Aren't
they meeting on Wednesday?
(18:50):
I don't know.
I don't really ever hearanything about it.
You've got to be marketingyourself, communicating, letting
people know we are here.
We have stuff going on, We'vegot exciting stuff going on and
seriously, as a parent, I preferyouth group over sports because
, number one, it's free.
Number two, I don't have to gotravel and go to all these games
(19:13):
and practices and stuff.
It's a Christian centeredenvironment and my kid still
gets all the benefits of growthof her character, but it's
around her spiritual life.
So I would choose that everysingle time.
But don't let these otherparents forget about you.
(19:34):
Make sure you're posting, makesure you're emailing, make sure
you're on campuses.
Sure you're emailing, make sureyou're on campuses and you're
involved in the community.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
People see you out and about and you're making
connections like, and one ofthose places you should be is at
the sporting events that thesekids are going to yeah, support
them and assuming it's on adifferent night than your youth
group.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Obviously yes support them in their sports, their
games, their performances, theirperformances, whatever it is,
but become noisy.
You know, like, market yourselfwell of like, this is something
you want to be a part of.
This is something that'shappening.
This is something that has abuzz and energy and vibrancy,
and then let that be sharedamong parents too.
(20:16):
So get on their radar and stayon their radar, and I think
that's a good way to draw peopleand parents' interest toward
you.
What's that thing going on onWednesday nights?
And, um, oh, yeah, I met him orher.
Oh, that was a youth pastor,like a familiar face or some
(20:37):
kind of interaction that letspeople know I'm a member of this
community, I'm a fan of thiscommunity, I'm on campuses, I
have a presence, and that willbe like an incredible marketing
tool to get people to say, hey,like, maybe there's something to
this, maybe we should try itout.
Hey, friend, I just want tointerrupt this episode for a
(20:58):
second to let you know about anawesome opportunity for you and
your youth ministry.
So last year we launched ourcourse and coaching program
called Youth Ministry GrowthAccelerator and the response has
been amazing.
So we've helped tons of youthpastors grow the size and health
of their youth ministry, and wewant to invite you to be a part
(21:18):
of that as well, because maybeyou're just sort of feeling
stuck in a rut.
Maybe you don't know what to donext, maybe you just have a
vague plan in your mind of whatyou're doing and you want some
real help to get you from whereyou are to where you want to go.
So if that sounds likesomething you've been looking
for, go togrowyouryouthministrycom and
check it out for more details.
(21:39):
All right, let's get back tothe episode.
And then another thing is do youmake it easy for families this
would be like number four Do youmake it easy for families to
come to your youth group?
So real, practically.
Here's why it's hard for somesports families to go to youth
group.
Sports practice might endwithin enough time for their kid
(22:04):
to go to youth group, but thenthey're hungry, they're tired,
they might have homework.
So one thing and I didn't go inwith this intention, but this
is what has really helped oursports families is we sell pizza
every Tuesday night, and so ifa mom or dad is bringing their
kid and doesn't have enough timeto stop by home and get them
(22:26):
dinner or go through a drivethrough or something like that,
send them with three bucks andthey can get two pieces of pizza
and that's dinner.
Yeah, that's done.
And they'll even come in theirbaseball uniforms and they'll
just be eating pizza and gostraight into youth group and go
straight into youth group.
A mom texted me last week andshe's like my son's going to be
a little late.
(22:46):
Can you please save him twopieces of pizza?
He'll pay you when he getsthere, but I just want to make
sure it's not gone, because thisis what I'm counting on for
dinner.
I'm like, absolutely, and shegoes.
Okay, he's so embarrassed, butI told him it's okay, like you
(23:11):
know.
And I'm like, who cares?
You don't need to beembarrassed, we'll just set it
aside for you.
And it just made me realize,like this is another, we're
removing one more barrier forthem for coming, or let them
come a little early, like, anddo their homework.
Like our daughter does that,but it's our daughter.
But like you're taking theother one to gymnastics and when
am I going to be able to dropyou off?
So she'll just sit in one ofthe cafe tables and do her
homework.
Could you open youth, the youthroom a little early and kids can
(23:31):
sit in, you know whatever spaceyou have available and just
kind of get a half hour ofhomework done.
So parents aren't like do we goall the way home and then do we
go back and we're coming fromthe ball field and then do we go
, so just say like, hey, send mea little text, a heads up, and
bring them a little early.
(23:52):
They can sit there quietly anddo their homework.
You know, and I have a lot ofkids that their parents are like
I have a Bible study I can'tbring you.
Can I just drop them off a halfan hour early?
And we're there, we're justsetting up and kids will just
kind of hang out.
And the cherry on top of thatwould be if you had like a
(24:12):
leader who would go early andlike help.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Tutor.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, like help them with their homework.
Yeah, like that's a parent'sdream Free tutoring.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Come on now.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Like I can get my kid their homework done.
Tutoring dinner.
Yes so yeah, worship message,small groups, like it is.
I have realized now that I havea kid in youth group.
It is a parent's dream cometrue.
Like so many years.
(24:42):
Parents would thank me andthey'd be like thank you so much
for what you do, like it'smeant so much to our family and
I.
I was appreciative of theircompliments.
I was like you're welcome, youknow, but I didn't feel it until
I had a kid in the youth group.
I'm like this is gold.
Like I get to send my kid to afree program every week with
(25:03):
caring adults who are trying topoint them to Jesus, where they
are learning how to worship, howto read the Bible, how to study
the Bible.
They have community that arebeing pointed in the right
direction.
There's other adults besides methat are loving them and
mentoring them and teaching them.
They have a sense of community.
They can use their gifts andtheir talents and they're having
(25:25):
fun and they're begging to goand they don't want to miss it.
I don't know if, as a parent, Idon't know of anything like
that.
You send your kid to school.
Maybe they like it, maybe theydon't, but they're not like
please don't let me miss school.
It's the funnest thing.
Maybe they tolerate it.
Some kids like it more thanothers.
Maybe their sports teams theyget very excited about.
But there's very few things inlife like this and that's what
(25:49):
we want to showcase to familiesof like.
You are missing out if you arenot here.
We're going to teach your kidhow much God loves them, how
they can walk with him for therest of their lives, and when
the parents start seeing thefruit of that in their kids
lives, they will 100 make suretheir kid gets there yeah we
(26:11):
have parents who use our youthgroup as a bargaining chip with
their kids and like you don'tget your homework done, you
can't go, you know.
Or you don't clean your room,you, you can't go.
It's like no.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
And we even had a coach and not that you want them
to pit and make that like apunishment.
However, it shows theimportance to the student how
much they want to be there.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, which I love, and we even had a baseball coach
change the nights of hispractice and the games for us
and that felt, as a youth pastor, the biggest victory because we
are always playing secondfiddle to that's such an old
term.
I played second fiddle to thesports.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Now you're playing first fiddle.
Yes, good job.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Thank you.
That's not a fiddle.
If you're a musical person.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Can you tell me what that was, please?
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Because we don't know what instrument did.
I just say Like it felt likesuch a victory, because it's
always like we're working aroundthe sports schedule and should
we move the night of our youthgroup Because everyone's
practice?
No, don't move it, you know,because then you have to move it
again and then you're justaccommodating everything at one
point.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Let's touch on that.
Hold your thought, but beforewe move on, I want to touch on
that.
That's a very popular thing todo is to move the day of your
youth group, and we talked aboutthis just the other day.
You had opinions on.
I have opinions on it.
They're both kind of the sameopinions.
I thought yours were better,even than mine.
The first thought I had was ifyou were going to go so far as
to change the night and time ofyour youth group, that's fine,
(27:50):
but, like you're saying, it nowhas to be the new permanent yeah
and you can't like.
Well, football season, a lot ofkids practice this day and
friday night game, so we can'tdo that.
We'll move it to tuesday.
But during the spring there'sbaseball and they play too, so
then in that season we'll moveit to wednesday, like no.
I don't know if you guysremember the show uh arrested
development.
(28:10):
I don't remember what networkit was on, but they say one of
the reasons why it never caughton was because they were
constantly changing the time andthe day interesting and now
it's like a cult classic, butit's like at the time people
couldn't figure out where it wasand it didn't become.
This is back with like typical,like it's thursday night and we
always watch you know, whateverit never caught on because of
(28:32):
the fact that it's like youcouldn't get into a rhythm and
and like youth group being likewe meet every night with weather
aren't every night the kidswould love that we meet every
week minus a couple.
We don't stop during summer,like it becomes that this night
of the week, at this time it'sguaranteed.
It's always a part of myschedule.
(28:52):
So, with all that said, ifyou're going to change the date,
it has to remain the same, andthen that'll be it.
Like, yeah, if you're.
If you just find that you're ona bad day, switch it and that's
it yeah.
A lot of people will choosebecause of all these things that
could be on different days,sunday night and this is kind of
the conversation we had.
So my thought in that was I'mnot a big fan of Sunday night.
(29:16):
And this comes with just thecaveat If Sunday night works for
you and your youth group isgrowing thriving, stick with
sunday night, don't changeanything.
However, my thought is you havechurch sunday morning and then
you have youth group sundaynight, and then you say see, in
a week, yeah, I like the idea ofhaving something mid-week
(29:40):
because it breaks up like, yeah,you're getting poured into
every few days.
Yeah, sunday, wednesday, sundaywednesday, and then if there's
an event, it's another thingversus sunday sunday wow, you're
such a so dramatic, dramaticactor.
Sunday and see sunday, you seethe difference?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
did you see the difference there?
Did you like?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
no, did you hear the difference?
It was a long.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
First I was like sunday, wednesday sunday.
Did you see the frequency?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
kind of like you can jive to it, but no, if there's
that long pause, no, hey yeah,it's just different.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You're right.
You got my point, yeah, loudand clear.
You brought up something elsethank you.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
You brought up something else, though, about
sunday versus like a midweek, inwhich was what?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
oh, I thought you're gonna say it.
Uh, well, I was just, and againlike the caveat you said if
you're doing this and it'sthriving, case closed for you,
good, good on you.
But I'm just like I would thinkit would be difficult for a
family to be like doing both,like we already had church, you
know, like we already had churchthis morning.
(30:53):
We're gonna skip tonightinstead of like back to back
church.
Like church in the morning,church in the evening, church at
supper time you also.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You also are like sunday is traditionally a family
day.
We go to church together.
Wow, that really rocked you, Igot too, crazy.
We a lot of times sunday is afamily day.
You go to church together andthen you spend the rest of the
day, but then all of a suddenyou're like, and then we're
gonna send you back yeah, Iwould just think at some point
families would just kind ofchoose one or the other right
(31:24):
Right.
That's not.
You did mention that, butthat's not the one I'm talking
about.
You said, when they're inschool and it's midweek, that's
when kids start talking.
Are you going to youth grouptonight?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
You can't miss youth group tonight.
And that like word of mouthmarketing, which is gold, and
then if you can get on campusthat day, you know, or like one
of our Christian clubs is on aMonday, Sometimes I can go and I
love being able to see are youcoming to chaos tomorrow?
Are you coming tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
coming tomorrow and I'm like talking to their
friends and meeting theirfriends, I'm like you should
bring them tomorrow, like cometo our youth group and so when
it's all on Sunday, you don'tget that same energy.
Or the kids will go home witheach other on a Tuesday so that
they can ride together and theyplan their own little social
things, so that they can show upat the same time and they
(32:14):
create community around ourcommunity and want to be a part
of it together.
But yeah, it doesn't have thatsame buzz and energy on the
weekend because they're notpresent with each other
necessarily.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Outside of their people at church.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Already see and saying are you going to youth
groups?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
It's not as magnetic, it doesn't have the same pull
as like in one cool thing, too.
This is kind of an aside.
One cool thing, too this iskind of an aside, but speaking
of the school thing, when youput out merch, if it's cool
stuff like, we did this awesomeshirt I can't take credit for it
, but two of my staff membersdesigned it.
It says Jesus is King on theback and all the kids wanted it
(32:57):
and it was written in thisreally cool font.
I don't know what was it Kindof like graffiti.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Not bubble letters but kind of whatever, and they
loved it and they all wore it toschool, and so you just see
this little crew.
Like ever, you could just seeall the youth group kids, right?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
and seeing one is kind of like okay, whatever,
seeing it was like a movement.
You're like what is this?
What is this?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
what's going on.
So if you don't do merch I wasnever a huge fan of merch I was
felt like it was a waste of mytime.
But seeing how they all wear itand it's like almost this, like
movement, and it's kind of awitnessing tool in a way,
instead of just having likechaos.
You know, like your youth groupname, like we were putting
(33:42):
phrases like Jesus is king orGod is good all the time, or you
know, like that Jesus wearthat's really popular.
Now we were kind of adoptingthose concepts and giving it to
them.
We should do an episode onmerch.
I'm going way off topic, butall I had to say at school it
creates a buzz.
So midweek is very good for foryouth group, but we were
talking about making it easy forfamilies to get there on a busy
(34:05):
school night food homework.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Whatever, bring it back, bring it back.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
And lastly, number five.
We have already been talkingabout this, so I guess I jumped
ahead by accident, but I wasgoing to say have a community
presence, but I think I wovethat in somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, and a big thing too and you kind of touched on
this is that bond with theparents, partnering with the
parents, like letting them knowhow important youth ministry is
and being it shouldn't.
Parents should not be thisseparate part that you don't
ever talk to or discuss, and youknow things like that.
They need to be an active partof your youth ministry.
And actually we did a wholeepisode about how to get parents
(34:42):
more involved in youth ministry, because when they're involved,
when they're invested, it's oneof those things where they want
their kids to be there.
You don't want it to be justlike oh, go to youth group or
don't go to youth group, I don'tcare, either way, you know you
want that to be the priority fortheir kids lives.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, and I would say actually kind of going back to
the, making it easy.
And then you brought up parents.
I thought of, like on the backend as well.
So like, yeah, we have dinnerfor them or they can come early
and get their homework done, orwhatever it might be.
You can drop them off early ifyou have somewhere else to go.
But then on the back end,remembering it's a school night
(35:18):
and their kids are already tired, get out on time and get them
out right away.
So many pastors go long becausemaybe they feel like the spirit
is moving through their talk andthey don't want to, you know,
cut it off or something.
And I'm sure everything youhave to say was very good, but
you need to say it by the timeyou said you were going to be
(35:41):
done.
And some churches like getcriticism, like you're too,
you're too staunch on yourprogram, like where's the room
just to be free and let ministryjust go, and I feel like, yes,
again, what?
What do I wish was like andwhat is reality?
But the reality is, if I'm in,if I'm a parent, and it's 8 30
(36:04):
on a school night and you wenttill 8 45 and I've been sitting
there and my kid still has totake a shower and make their
lunch do homework and put outalready.
I'm just you're gonna losepoints with me because you, you
can't come out to every car andgo, no, but you want to know
what the holy spirit was justgoing and if it was during small
groups, it might not have beentheir small group.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
You know what I mean.
Like so I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
But it's like that thing where it's like you can do
effective ministry and let theHoly Spirit move and let the
Holy Spirit, like, speak and goand be attuned to where he wants
to go that night.
But you can also temper thatwith being true to your word,
like so I, oh like, it just hitme.
(36:48):
I don't know that the HolySpirit would ever want us to not
follow through on a promise wemade.
Like, how do those things existat the same time Because that's
the excuse pastors give all thetime.
But wouldn't the Holy Spiritsay be true to your word.
If you promised this thing endsat eight 30 and you want your
(37:09):
integrity and honesty to remain,then you get them out at eight
30.
Don't blame it on me.
You know that I made you late,you know, and I wonder how much
of that is just like our.
I don't know if it's pride orlack of discipline, I don't know
what it is, but like when youget in the zone and I've been
there where I'm teaching andit's flowing I feel like you're
(37:31):
in the zone right now.
I'm in the zone and I feelreally bad.
I spoke at a winter camp thisseason and I was having one of
those moments where I'm likethis is fire right now, fire
from heaven, and I let them outtoo late.
We almost missed dinner.
There was a big debacle withthe kitchen, someone got yelled
(37:52):
at and it was a mess because Iwent too late, you know, and I
felt irresponsible because Ididn't deliver what I said I
would.
You told me 45 minutes and Iwent 55 and it ruined the night,
you know.
So would the Holy Spirit say,nope, forget what you said
earlier, we're going tillmidnight.
(38:14):
Or would he say you know what Imean, like I don't know, that
he would want us to not followthrough on our commitment and
then blame it on him?
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Right, I don't know, it's just a thought Definitely
up for debate.
We had talked earlier.
This is a question of the day.
You had already kind ofanswered it.
But what is the sport in yourarea that is the predominant one
that you guys tend to battlewith for a youth group versus
sports for us, generally it'sbaseball a little bit football,
but I would say definitely thosetwo baseball by far, baseball a
(38:43):
little bit football, but Iwould say definitely those two
Baseball by far.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah, baseball.
The boys have these sparklynecklaces.
Have you seen them?
They're all wearing them atchurch.
They're like these balls thatare like really glittery red,
white and blue and all thebaseball boys wear them.
They wear their uniforms tochurch on Sunday, they wear them
to youth group on Tuesday.
It's like you know the baseballkids, yeah In.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Southern California, there's never a non-baseball
season because of the weather,so there's winter ball, summer
ball, travel ball, baseball,this ball you know.
So, anyways, put in the commentsection below what is the sport
you constantly are battlingwith.
This is the community commentof the day, which comes from
Michael Taylor, who says thankyou both for this channel.
It has been a tremendous asset,and I couldn't agree more with
(39:25):
what you said about God leadingyou to what you need when you
need it.
I inherited a youth program alittle over a month ago that
often had zero kids showing up.
Wow, thanks to God, first andforemost, and to your videos and
advice, we have had 10 plus thelast two weeks.
You guys are my go-to on here.
Please pray for our youth group.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Awesome.
Thank you, michael, I reallyappreciate that.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
And we do frequently pray for youth groups out there,
either specifically or ingeneral.
We are always praying for youryouth groups that you are
growing, that you are healthyand that kids are getting fed,
Love it Well.
Thank you guys.
So much for watching andlistening and we'll see you next
time.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Are you consistently in the battle of youth group
versus sports?
Well, today we're going to giveyou five ways to navigate it.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Today we're talking about the battle for your
students.
Attention, attention.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
The age old battle the age old.
Is that the same age old?
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