June 19, 2025 • 26 mins
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GrowYourYouthMinistry.com *** Every youth pastor knows the rollercoaster of youth ministry – the highs of seeing students grow, the lows of drama and discouragement. What many don't realize is that who you choose to ride that student ministry rollercoaster with matters just as much as the ministry itself.
Whether you're struggling with difficult team dynamics, seeking to build a powerful team from the ground up or looking to strengthen an already solid group, these insights will help you create a youth ministry environment where everyone – including you – can thrive for the long haul. Your youth ministry's longevity depends not just on what you do, but who you do it with.
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You may also enjoy these episodes:
(#011) How to Recruit the RIGHT Volunteers For Youth Ministry
(#024) Raising Up Leaders in Student Ministry - How to Duplicate Yourself!!!
(#244) How to Retain Your Youth Ministry Volunteers for Years!
(#245) How to Keep Students Coming Back to Your Youth Ministry EVERY WEEK!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There are so many ups and downs in youth ministry.
That's why who you do ministrywith is just as important as the
ministry itself.
That's what we're talking abouttoday on the Ministry Coach
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast where
every week, we give youactionable and practical tips to
help you and your youthministry.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
My name is Jeff Laskola and this is Kristen
Laskola, and today we're talkingabout who are you doing
ministry with?
I feel like over the past fewweeks we've been talking a lot
about our team and this is sortof like a great follow up for
the past two episodes.
So if you haven't watched thoseyet, it's not like you have to
(00:48):
hear them or see them tounderstand this one, but it's
all good.
Yeah, you should Come on Likeit's all just building off the
same topic, and I've heard itsaid that who you are doing
ministry with is just asimportant as the ministry itself
.
And the reason for that isbecause who you're doing
(01:10):
ministry with determines if youcan successfully pull it off
Right.
So you might have a greatvision for ministry, you might
have a great passion forministry, you might be called
into ministry.
Whether or not you can executeit, whether or not you can pull
it off, whether or not it'sgoing to live up to the vision
(01:31):
that you have or that God hasgiven you for it will largely
depend on who is surrounding youand who you're doing ministry
with.
So that's a question for all ofyou today who are you doing
ministry with?
On the last episode today, whoare you doing ministry with?
On the last episode, we said,if you're doing ministry
absolutely alone, stopeverything and go find people to
(01:51):
do it with.
And let's assume that you didstop everything and you have
some people that you're doingministry with.
You have a team around you, youhave leaders, and now what?
So today we're not talking somuch about, like, how to care
for them, but like how do youknow that they're the right
people, and not necessarily justthe right people for ministry,
(02:12):
but specifically the rightpeople for you to be doing
ministry with?
Because there are somequalifications for ministry that
have a lot to do with, like,our character and our
spirituality.
And if you want that full list,it is available in the Bible,
yeah.
So first, timothy three andTitus one give us a list that
(02:36):
churches should be looking forwhen they're hiring or
appointing an overseer.
In your Bible, the heading mightsay something like
qualifications for overseers inthe church, and it has a lot to
do with our character, not ourabilities, and we've talked
about that before.
But just because you are afaithful person, you love Jesus,
(02:57):
you're following the Lord andyou're, on paper, qualified to
do ministry in a biblical sense.
It doesn't mean that you and Iare going to work really well
together and have a lot ofchemistry.
So, for the sake of thisepisode, let's just assume that
these people meet all thespiritual criteria, because I
(03:18):
don't want anyone to think likewell, you didn't talk about
anything about them having to bea Christian to love the Lord
and be following Jesus and abovereproach and not living in
high-handed sin.
Those are all givens, okay.
So I don't really want to spendtime in the episode talking
about things that should beblaringly obvious, glaringly
obvious blatantly obvious.
(03:39):
Yes, I was thinking blatantlyand glaring which is actually a
word.
It's just not used correctlyright here right now, but I
noticed, so you know, give mesome credit there.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I'll give you a little credit.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Thank you.
So today we're talking aboutmore like nuanced things Like
how do I know like okay, you'rea person for ministry.
How do I know you're my personfor?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
ministry.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
So here's a question that I actually felt bad about
for a very, very, very long time, until someone in leadership
gave me permission to ask thisquestion about my team, and the
question is do you like them?
And I kind of thought that wasirrelevant.
Like well, it's not about me.
They're willing to serve, yeah,and they love the Lord and they
(04:25):
signed up, so I have to takethem Right.
And they were like why do youhave to work with people you
don't enjoy?
Why do you have to work withpeople you don't like?
Now, loving and liking are twodifferent things.
Like we have to treat everyonewith love, kindness, respect,
you know, nonpartiality, allthat kind of stuff.
I believe that biblical love iscommanded for us, for everyone.
(04:53):
But there is a differencebetween someone just being
qualified and so well, I guess Ihave to take him, which is what
I always thought like.
Well, on paper you fit the bill, but do I like you?
And as soon as I was asked thatquestion, I felt this like
relief.
Like you mean, I can pickpeople or non-pick people, based
on if I like them.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
They were like yes, yeah, talk for a little bit
about like.
I think that the knee-jerkreaction might to think oh, it's
just your click, then like yourbesties or whatever, and all
these other people who aretotally fine, don't get picked.
Unpack that a little more whatdo you mean?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
like them?
Yeah, do I like them, becausethese aren't always people.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's like these are all the people I hang out with
every single day and they're inmy inner circle and we hang out,
you know, and text each othernon-stop.
It's not that so no, it's notlike.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So I have like a group of like six best friends
and we're all the same age.
We're all very similar.
We all talk the same act, thesame dresses.
For the most part, we enjoy thesame things.
I don't have one person likethat on my team, so it's not
like.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Hey, this is all like my same, like gender,
demographic because lastpersonality I think it was last
week we talked about duplicatingyour leadership and you're not
literally like they need to look, act and sound exactly like, no
, you don't like copy and pasteyourself, like I'm not saying
that, like the people on my teamare all super different in
terms of age, gender, station inlife, personality, but I like
(06:27):
them all, meaning I get alongwith them.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So here's the questions.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And they get along with each other.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yes, so here are the questions.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Do you just want to do the episode by?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
yourself Jeff.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You guys would love it.
But go ahead, go, do your fancyepisode.
Before we go any furtherfurther, you have something in
your tooth, right there and youknow what, and this whole time
when you were talking, I thought, wow, your eyes look really
white today, very like white.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And you point out something in my I thought you'd
be like oh no oh well, no onecan see it okay, um, so number
one like we we said, do I likethem, and by that I mean like do
I look forward to seeing them.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Are these people that , when I see, I want to move
toward, not away from, just youknow I've talked about that
analogy before.
You see their car in theparking lot and you're not
filled with dread, you're filledwith excitement.
I can't wait to see them.
Do they inspire a feeling ofexcitement and magnetism in you?
(07:29):
And I think that's reallyimportant, and I'll talk about
the reason why that's importantin a second.
But you forced my hand to talkabout these reasons.
Number two generally speaking,do I feel filled up by them?
Now, every friendship, everyrelationship, every interaction
can't leave us filled to thebrim, a hundred percent.
(07:50):
There'll be a day when someoneirritates you, or they make a
bad call, or, you know, dosomething, don't show up, or do
something that annoys you.
For sure, generally speaking,do they fill you up instead of
drain you?
You know there's people thatare battery chargers for you and
people that are batterydrainers for you and the.
(08:11):
The thing is and I'm going tohave to dip into this a little
bit now ministry is hard enough.
Okay, I cannot also have a team.
That is difficult my studentsangels.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Can be difficult, angels.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
But sometimes we get in a little issue with them
treating each other a certainway or parents now calling upset
about something Like.
Ministry will come with its ownchallenges.
I can't also have a team thatis full of challenges.
They have to be people who fillmy battery, not drain my
battery, because I'm going tohave to deal with so many issues
(08:54):
draining issues just by virtueof what we do.
In ministry.
People are messy, relationshipsare complicated, students are
students.
They're still developing.
I expect there to be challengeswith students.
However, I do not expect tohave issues over and over and
over and over again with thesame person.
(09:16):
When they're a leader, you knowlike okay, okay, maybe they
posted something they shouldn'ton social media, we'll have a
conversation, move on.
But if I'm having to have thesame conversation with them all
the time, or if they're adominator, or if they're drama,
or if they're having a hard timegetting along with other people
on the team and they'redraining everyone's battery,
then to me that's a no-go.
(09:38):
Yeah, like we have enough dramato deal with without an adult
who should be acting like aleader, causing drama.
So do we feel filled up by them?
And then, kind of in the samebreath.
Do they make ministry easierfor you or do they make ministry
harder for you Again?
There's going to be so manythings that are difficult in
(10:00):
ministry and I want you to thinkabout those things right now.
I want you to think about thethings that you've had to do in
ministry that you would not wantto do again.
Okay, and imagine you have todo them again, but some of the
best people in your life arestanding beside you doing it
with you.
And that's how I feel with myteam.
Like when we go to camp,inevitably something happens.
(10:23):
It's always called spin thewheel of whitewater.
And will there be a monsoon?
Will there be a bear?
Will there be like?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
rattlesnake a rattlesnake.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Flat tire, broken trailer anxiety right, or a sick
kid or something, and we'vealways had to charge these
difficult situations.
But the reason I can do it isbecause we're doing it together
and these people help, don'thinder the process.
They are quick thinkers,they're problem solvers, they
(10:53):
have skin in the game and theywant to help move toward a
solution.
They don't make my life harder,they always make it easier.
They find solutions and I liketo believe I've empowered them
to carry out those solutions.
I remember last year we had amonsoon and we were at
(11:13):
whitewater, which a monsoon isnot a big deal but everything's
outside.
So now everything's soaking wet.
There was no inside to putanything and one of my leaders,
just quick thinking, goes andgets the blower and he starts
drying the tarps with the blower.
We bring a blower for our tarpsto keep leaves and debris and
dirt off of them, but they alsowork as a giant hairdryer and it
(11:35):
started drying these tarps sothat the kids now aren't sitting
in mud because their shoes areall dirty.
Then they step on the wet tarpand now we've created mud and
now there's nowhere to clean.
He's sweating on his hands andknees, jesse, thank you Just
blowing this tarp.
Owen helped too, and it wasfantastic.
They just jumped right intoaction, spreading out kids
(11:56):
sleeping bags and hanging themup to get them to dry.
They were going to their carsfinding blankets or pillows or
extra dry things that kids coulduse to sleep that night,
because some of their pillowswere literally sponges that had
gotten soaked through and theywere crying and upset.
We coined the term no panic, nocry that night.
(12:16):
I was telling the kids I'm likesome of your stuff's wet, but
guess what?
No panic, no cry, we're goingto fix it for you, we're helping
.
No panic.
And they were laughing and itturned into this whole thing,
but they were just ready foraction.
I didn't have to think of everysolution and be like, okay, now
, sarah, you wring out thepillows, now, owen, you get the
(12:42):
blower.
It was just like they madeministry easier because they're
smart, they're empowered andthey're doers and they are there
to help.
So I can deal with any monsoonor any bear or any snake or any
sick kid or behavior issue,because we're an army together.
It's not me and then a bunch ofcrybaby adults or difficult
adults or dramatic adults orsour attitude adults.
(13:06):
It's like there are so manythings that we cannot foresee
happening in ministry.
Who is going to carry youthrough?
If you have to pull yourleader's weight, you're dead in
the water, you know.
But if you are all pulling theweight of the ministry together,
you are going to be energizedand you have a bright future
because you'll be able to stayin as long as possible.
(13:29):
So if you're like man, I wishmy leaders would do that kind of
stuff.
Okay, well then, let me ask youa question have you empowered
them to?
To say I tell my team all thetime, guess what?
This is not like a pyramid ofleadership, it's not like
Kristen's at the top and shetells everybody what to do and
you all answer to me I'm like no, no, no.
I want you to picture us allwith arms linked and we're
(13:52):
charging a hill together soeveryone participate.
This is not the me show.
I am not the most brilliantcreative mind here.
I need every creative mind.
I need every good idea.
I need every single person'sparticipation.
Don't wait for me to tell youUse your own gifts, abilities
and brain power and let's dothis together.
(14:15):
And when we can get in thatzone.
I honestly believe and I tellthem this all the time we're
unstoppable.
There's nothing we can't do.
There's no problem we can'tsolve.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Ain't no mountain high enough, ain't no valley low
enough.
Thank you, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
The next question to ask is Can I be my authentic
self around them?
So I think that's reallyimportant to be able, especially
in ministry, to have permissionto be a real person.
I think sometimes people lookat ministry leads and like, put
you in some like pastor,untouchable category.
(14:54):
Like, oh, they're the pastor,oh, they're very special, and
it's like you almost have to actthat out.
You know, like, oh, I am verybuttoned up and I'm very uh, you
know, you, you're putting onthis act because you feel like
you can't be yourself aroundthese people, because they're
expecting you to be some roleinstead of some person, or a
(15:17):
function instead of a human.
And I find that exhausting.
I can't keep that up.
And so I love my team because Ifeel like I can be my genuine,
authentic self around them, allmy quirks, all my humor, all my
personality things, my likes, mydislikes, and it's so.
(15:37):
Again, it adds to the longevitybecause who can keep up an act
for that long?
And it creates permission forthem to do the same.
It's like we're all just peopledoing ministry, like we don't
need to think higher or lower ofourselves, but like let's just
be ourselves and createauthentic bonds and ties based
(15:58):
on that.
And then this one I've had tolearn the hard way, but I didn't
come up with this necessarilyin my own brain, but again,
somebody taught this to me, muchlike the question of do I like
them?
Somebody taught me to thinkthis way Are they a fan of me,
this church and this ministryand the way we do things?
(16:21):
Because there's nothing worsethan having to constantly defend
yourself to people who are noton board with your methods and
your ministry and how youparticularly do things.
Like there was someone on mystaff years and years and years
and years ago and it was just soevident he was not a fan and it
(16:45):
was hard.
But I again I didn't know I hadpermission to excuse people like
that.
I was like, well, he's a goodguy, you know he just he does
what he's asked to do and we Ican't ask him to step down.
He didn't do anything wrong.
And someone really challengedmy thinking on that to say why
would you keep someone who isnot a fan of yours or your
(17:05):
ministry or the way you do stuff, only keep your fans around.
And I was like, oh yeah, it iskind of exhausting to have to
like tiptoe around.
Oh no, what are they thinking?
Or oh, it's too loud for them.
Or oh, they don't like this, oraround oh no, what are they
thinking?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
or oh, it's too loud for them, or oh, they don't like
this, or sometimes they can becancerous too, because they will
start talking to other peoplebeing in their ear and like
don't you hate how this, orshouldn't it be like this, right
, and not that it's like yourway or the highway kind of thing
, but it's like that collective,we are in agreement.
This is the direction we'regoing.
And one person's whisperingyeah, but blah, blah, blah.
And yeah, this is no good.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And yeah, it just starts tearing down, uh, the
team from the inside and that'sreally toxic, and not that
there's not room fordisagreement, don't
misunderstand me.
It's not like but that shouldcome to you.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
It shouldn't be put in the ear of all these other
people, these side littleconversations that you're
unaware of, and then all of asudden there's a mutiny or
something.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, and I've never had that happen.
This guy was not even close tothat, but it was more just like
I could tell it was a veryjudgmental posture, like of
everything we did and kind oflike keeping a watchful eye on
us sort of thing.
And it was just like hey, Ijust don't think this is the
(18:17):
place for you, because I don'tget the sense.
You're totally a fan of how wedo things.
I'm open to feedback, of courselike hey, why don't we do this
instead of this?
If somebody is coming to youwith suggestions as the youth
pastor, the worst thing you cando is shut them down.
Suggestions are very different.
Of like, oh, we can make itbetter.
(18:39):
You can tell it's because theywant to see things get better,
instead of just this constantcritical eye of like, well, did
you see those kids and what theydid?
Or did you see that leader?
Blah, blah, blah.
And it's almost like thisspirit of criticism versus a
spirit of wanting things to beimproved and better.
You know and you can well, I canspot the difference, and I'm
(19:02):
sure you can too.
It's just a different feelingof like.
Do you want us to succeed,right?
Or are you just excited to walkaround with your clipboard and
pen and tell me all the things?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
kind of seem a little excited to find the things
wrong, that shout and frown,whatever that german word of
like you take joy and thediscomfort or displeasure of
others exactly sick sick thingsick.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And then the reason this is so important and the
reason we're talking about thisat all kind of what we were,
what I was going to get to inthe beginning is this correlates
to the overall chemistry ofyour youth ministry.
So and the culture of the group.
So, if the leaders are friends,if the leaders are fans of each
other, the whole energy of theyouth group is greatly impacted
(19:50):
and that almost sets the tone.
For, like, this is a place offriendship, of energy, of
chemistry, of love of lifetogether, and I feel like the
students might not be able toput their finger on it, but it's
something you can feel andobserve at the same time,
(20:12):
whereas if none of the leadersare excited to see each other
and don't have any fun or banteror relationship or chemistry, I
think the air and the youthministry gets very stale and
again, that's not to say likewell, so only hire your best
friends or recruit your bestfriends, but you can enjoy
(20:33):
people from all different walksof life, all different stages of
life, to get like that spectrumof life experience on your team
.
But whether it's like the 17year old girl or boy that we
have or the parents of teenagerleaders that we have.
I mean, I would hang out withall of them any day and be
(20:58):
excited to see all of them.
You know I have a differentchemistry with each one, but at
the end of the day, I'm excitedto see every single one of them
and I think they know that andthat comes across.
And so, yeah, all this to saywho you're doing ministry with
is going to greatly impact.
So, yeah, we've talked about.
(21:20):
The first step is actually geta team, because I think one of
the top reasons people burn outis because they are doing
ministry alone.
I mean, I can't imagine goingthrough the hardest seasons of
ministry again alone.
I think I would have thrown inthe towel, honestly, because
sometimes it's like I'm notlooking forward to any of you,
(21:41):
I'm just looking forward to anyof you, I'm just looking forward
to my leaders.
And they're what keep my headabove water where it's like guys
, we got to wait this class out.
You know they are bad news andour ministry is like hurting
right now, but at least we goteach other, you know, and
there's this honesty andcommiseration where we can just
be real like like dang, likethis small group is rough, like
(22:05):
when are they graduating?
Like we got to get you throughthis, you know, and we can be
real about like oh, thisministry right now, the kids are
amazing and all this.
So you like ride the victoriestogether, you ride the low
points together, but again, aslong as you're together, I feel
like you can withstand so muchmore.
Hey, friend, I just wanted tointerrupt this episode for a
(22:27):
second to let you know about anawesome opportunity for you and
your youth ministry.
So last year we launched ourcourse and coaching program
called Youth Ministry GrowthAccelerator and the response has
been amazing.
So we've helped tons of youthpastors grow the size and health
of their youth ministry and wewant to invite you to be a part
(22:48):
of that as well, because maybeyou're just sort of feeling
stuck in a rut, maybe you don'tknow what to do next, maybe you
just have a vague plan in yourmind of what you're doing and
you want some real help to getyou from where you are to where
you want to go.
So if that sounds likesomething you've been looking
for, go togrowyouryouthministrycom and
check it out for more details.
(23:09):
All right, let's get back to theepisode.
So, again, it's not just abouthaving a team.
It's about having a team ofpeople you really really like
and that's why, when we doretreats and stuff, we have so
much fun, because it's like thisis like camp without the
students.
We got to just enjoy each otherwithout having to work and we
love our students and we lovebeing around them.
But our enjoyment of theministry isn't contingent on
(23:34):
where the kids good tonight orwhere the kids bad tonight.
It's like, well, you have goodnights and bad nights with the
kids who who knows?
But we have each other andthat's a constant, because for
the most part, your adultleaders should be constant and
consistent and their behaviorand how they treat you and each
other.
So at least you have that toanchor you because the kids can
(23:57):
go up and down with they're hot,they're cold, their behavior,
the drama, the parents, and it'slike, oh, if our feeling of
ministry changes every singleday because, well, this week
they were great, then nobodycame, now this week it was good
again and then all of a sudden afight broke out, like I mean,
that's a roller coaster, andafter a while you just get
(24:18):
emotionally drained.
I feel like my leaders andtheir relationship with me have
held me constant in my ministryto know, no matter what happens
tonight, I might not like whatI'm doing, but I like who I'm
doing it with, and that is thekey.
I don't know what's going tohappen, but I know who I'm doing
it with, and so I'm good, youknow.
(24:39):
So that's that, jeff, you'restaring at me weirdly.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
That's Kristen's final thought of the day.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
You just are looking at me like I look weird all the
time.
You didn't look weird, you justlooked inquisitive.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I don't know what to tell you.
Make sure you check out theepisode we did I've mentioned it
multiple times on this podcastbut the one we did about how to
recruit the right volunteers foryour youth ministry.
It's kind of everything we weretalking about, but how to
specifically seek out thosepeople and then also the two
episodes we just did.
That's three episodes.
If you have the time to do it,go for it, but let's do a
community comment of the day.
(25:14):
This comes from Pastor Adam7476, who says Adam 7476, who says
more great pearls of wisdom.
I'm a bivocational youth pastorand Thursdays happen to be my
day in the office, with ouryouth group meeting in the
evening.
I look forward to catching thelatest video every Thursday.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Wow, that would be like so fresh in your mind and
then your meeting and youthgroup happens.
So it's like an implement andgo.
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Thanks, pastor Adam, appreciate that.
And thank you guys for watchingand listening and we'll see you
next time.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Today we're going to be talking about.
Who you do ministry with isjust as important as the
ministry you do.
That's what we're talking abouttoday.
There are so many ups and downsin youth ministry.
That's why who you do, or likeyou look like you're about to
fall asleep Is this episode likesuper boring.
There are so many ups and downs in youth ministry.
That's why who you do ministrywith is just as important as the
ministry itself.
That's what we're talking abouttoday on the Ministry Coach
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast where
every week, we give youactionable and practical tips to
help you and your youthministry.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
My name is Jeff Laskola and this is Kristen
Laskola, and today we're talkingabout who are you doing
ministry with?
I feel like over the past fewweeks we've been talking a lot
about our team and this is sortof like a great follow up for
the past two episodes.
So if you haven't watched thoseyet, it's not like you have to
(00:48):
hear them or see them tounderstand this one, but it's
all good.
Yeah, you should Come on Likeit's all just building off the
same topic, and I've heard itsaid that who you are doing
ministry with is just asimportant as the ministry itself
.
And the reason for that isbecause who you're doing
(01:10):
ministry with determines if youcan successfully pull it off
Right.
So you might have a greatvision for ministry, you might
have a great passion forministry, you might be called
into ministry.
Whether or not you can executeit, whether or not you can pull
it off, whether or not it'sgoing to live up to the vision
(01:31):
that you have or that God hasgiven you for it will largely
depend on who is surrounding youand who you're doing ministry
with.
So that's a question for all ofyou today who are you doing
ministry with?
On the last episode today, whoare you doing ministry with?
On the last episode, we said,if you're doing ministry
absolutely alone, stopeverything and go find people to
(01:51):
do it with.
And let's assume that you didstop everything and you have
some people that you're doingministry with.
You have a team around you, youhave leaders, and now what?
So today we're not talking somuch about, like, how to care
for them, but like how do youknow that they're the right
people, and not necessarily justthe right people for ministry,
(02:12):
but specifically the rightpeople for you to be doing
ministry with?
Because there are somequalifications for ministry that
have a lot to do with, like,our character and our
spirituality.
And if you want that full list,it is available in the Bible,
yeah.
So first, timothy three andTitus one give us a list that
(02:36):
churches should be looking forwhen they're hiring or
appointing an overseer.
In your Bible, the heading mightsay something like
qualifications for overseers inthe church, and it has a lot to
do with our character, not ourabilities, and we've talked
about that before.
But just because you are afaithful person, you love Jesus,
(02:57):
you're following the Lord andyou're, on paper, qualified to
do ministry in a biblical sense.
It doesn't mean that you and Iare going to work really well
together and have a lot ofchemistry.
So, for the sake of thisepisode, let's just assume that
these people meet all thespiritual criteria, because I
(03:18):
don't want anyone to think likewell, you didn't talk about
anything about them having to bea Christian to love the Lord
and be following Jesus and abovereproach and not living in
high-handed sin.
Those are all givens, okay.
So I don't really want to spendtime in the episode talking
about things that should beblaringly obvious, glaringly
obvious blatantly obvious.
(03:39):
Yes, I was thinking blatantlyand glaring which is actually a
word.
It's just not used correctlyright here right now, but I
noticed, so you know, give mesome credit there.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I'll give you a little credit.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Thank you.
So today we're talking aboutmore like nuanced things Like
how do I know like okay, you'rea person for ministry.
How do I know you're my personfor?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
ministry.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
So here's a question that I actually felt bad about
for a very, very, very long time, until someone in leadership
gave me permission to ask thisquestion about my team, and the
question is do you like them?
And I kind of thought that wasirrelevant.
Like well, it's not about me.
They're willing to serve, yeah,and they love the Lord and they
(04:25):
signed up, so I have to takethem Right.
And they were like why do youhave to work with people you
don't enjoy?
Why do you have to work withpeople you don't like?
Now, loving and liking are twodifferent things.
Like we have to treat everyonewith love, kindness, respect,
you know, nonpartiality, allthat kind of stuff.
I believe that biblical love iscommanded for us, for everyone.
(04:53):
But there is a differencebetween someone just being
qualified and so well, I guess Ihave to take him, which is what
I always thought like.
Well, on paper you fit the bill, but do I like you?
And as soon as I was asked thatquestion, I felt this like
relief.
Like you mean, I can pickpeople or non-pick people, based
on if I like them.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
They were like yes, yeah, talk for a little bit
about like.
I think that the knee-jerkreaction might to think oh, it's
just your click, then like yourbesties or whatever, and all
these other people who aretotally fine, don't get picked.
Unpack that a little more whatdo you mean?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
like them?
Yeah, do I like them, becausethese aren't always people.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's like these are all the people I hang out with
every single day and they're inmy inner circle and we hang out,
you know, and text each othernon-stop.
It's not that so no, it's notlike.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So I have like a group of like six best friends
and we're all the same age.
We're all very similar.
We all talk the same act, thesame dresses.
For the most part, we enjoy thesame things.
I don't have one person likethat on my team, so it's not
like.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Hey, this is all like my same, like gender,
demographic because lastpersonality I think it was last
week we talked about duplicatingyour leadership and you're not
literally like they need to look, act and sound exactly like, no
, you don't like copy and pasteyourself, like I'm not saying
that, like the people on my teamare all super different in
terms of age, gender, station inlife, personality, but I like
(06:27):
them all, meaning I get alongwith them.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So here's the questions.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And they get along with each other.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yes, so here are the questions.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Do you just want to do the episode by?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
yourself Jeff.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You guys would love it.
But go ahead, go, do your fancyepisode.
Before we go any furtherfurther, you have something in
your tooth, right there and youknow what, and this whole time
when you were talking, I thought, wow, your eyes look really
white today, very like white.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And you point out something in my I thought you'd
be like oh no oh well, no onecan see it okay, um, so number
one like we we said, do I likethem, and by that I mean like do
I look forward to seeing them.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Are these people that , when I see, I want to move
toward, not away from, just youknow I've talked about that
analogy before.
You see their car in theparking lot and you're not
filled with dread, you're filledwith excitement.
I can't wait to see them.
Do they inspire a feeling ofexcitement and magnetism in you?
(07:29):
And I think that's reallyimportant, and I'll talk about
the reason why that's importantin a second.
But you forced my hand to talkabout these reasons.
Number two generally speaking,do I feel filled up by them?
Now, every friendship, everyrelationship, every interaction
can't leave us filled to thebrim, a hundred percent.
(07:50):
There'll be a day when someoneirritates you, or they make a
bad call, or, you know, dosomething, don't show up, or do
something that annoys you.
For sure, generally speaking,do they fill you up instead of
drain you?
You know there's people thatare battery chargers for you and
people that are batterydrainers for you and the.
(08:11):
The thing is and I'm going tohave to dip into this a little
bit now ministry is hard enough.
Okay, I cannot also have a team.
That is difficult my studentsangels.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Can be difficult, angels.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
But sometimes we get in a little issue with them
treating each other a certainway or parents now calling upset
about something Like.
Ministry will come with its ownchallenges.
I can't also have a team thatis full of challenges.
They have to be people who fillmy battery, not drain my
battery, because I'm going tohave to deal with so many issues
(08:54):
draining issues just by virtueof what we do.
In ministry.
People are messy, relationshipsare complicated, students are
students.
They're still developing.
I expect there to be challengeswith students.
However, I do not expect tohave issues over and over and
over and over again with thesame person.
(09:16):
When they're a leader, you knowlike okay, okay, maybe they
posted something they shouldn'ton social media, we'll have a
conversation, move on.
But if I'm having to have thesame conversation with them all
the time, or if they're adominator, or if they're drama,
or if they're having a hard timegetting along with other people
on the team and they'redraining everyone's battery,
then to me that's a no-go.
(09:38):
Yeah, like we have enough dramato deal with without an adult
who should be acting like aleader, causing drama.
So do we feel filled up by them?
And then, kind of in the samebreath.
Do they make ministry easierfor you or do they make ministry
harder for you Again?
There's going to be so manythings that are difficult in
(10:00):
ministry and I want you to thinkabout those things right now.
I want you to think about thethings that you've had to do in
ministry that you would not wantto do again.
Okay, and imagine you have todo them again, but some of the
best people in your life arestanding beside you doing it
with you.
And that's how I feel with myteam.
Like when we go to camp,inevitably something happens.
(10:23):
It's always called spin thewheel of whitewater.
And will there be a monsoon?
Will there be a bear?
Will there be like?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
rattlesnake a rattlesnake.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Flat tire, broken trailer anxiety right, or a sick
kid or something, and we'vealways had to charge these
difficult situations.
But the reason I can do it isbecause we're doing it together
and these people help, don'thinder the process.
They are quick thinkers,they're problem solvers, they
(10:53):
have skin in the game and theywant to help move toward a
solution.
They don't make my life harder,they always make it easier.
They find solutions and I liketo believe I've empowered them
to carry out those solutions.
I remember last year we had amonsoon and we were at
(11:13):
whitewater, which a monsoon isnot a big deal but everything's
outside.
So now everything's soaking wet.
There was no inside to putanything and one of my leaders,
just quick thinking, goes andgets the blower and he starts
drying the tarps with the blower.
We bring a blower for our tarpsto keep leaves and debris and
dirt off of them, but they alsowork as a giant hairdryer and it
(11:35):
started drying these tarps sothat the kids now aren't sitting
in mud because their shoes areall dirty.
Then they step on the wet tarpand now we've created mud and
now there's nowhere to clean.
He's sweating on his hands andknees, jesse, thank you Just
blowing this tarp.
Owen helped too, and it wasfantastic.
They just jumped right intoaction, spreading out kids
(11:56):
sleeping bags and hanging themup to get them to dry.
They were going to their carsfinding blankets or pillows or
extra dry things that kids coulduse to sleep that night,
because some of their pillowswere literally sponges that had
gotten soaked through and theywere crying and upset.
We coined the term no panic, nocry that night.
(12:16):
I was telling the kids I'm likesome of your stuff's wet, but
guess what?
No panic, no cry, we're goingto fix it for you, we're helping
.
No panic.
And they were laughing and itturned into this whole thing,
but they were just ready foraction.
I didn't have to think of everysolution and be like, okay, now
, sarah, you wring out thepillows, now, owen, you get the
(12:42):
blower.
It was just like they madeministry easier because they're
smart, they're empowered andthey're doers and they are there
to help.
So I can deal with any monsoonor any bear or any snake or any
sick kid or behavior issue,because we're an army together.
It's not me and then a bunch ofcrybaby adults or difficult
adults or dramatic adults orsour attitude adults.
(13:06):
It's like there are so manythings that we cannot foresee
happening in ministry.
Who is going to carry youthrough?
If you have to pull yourleader's weight, you're dead in
the water, you know.
But if you are all pulling theweight of the ministry together,
you are going to be energizedand you have a bright future
because you'll be able to stayin as long as possible.
(13:29):
So if you're like man, I wishmy leaders would do that kind of
stuff.
Okay, well then, let me ask youa question have you empowered
them to?
To say I tell my team all thetime, guess what?
This is not like a pyramid ofleadership, it's not like
Kristen's at the top and shetells everybody what to do and
you all answer to me I'm like no, no, no.
I want you to picture us allwith arms linked and we're
(13:52):
charging a hill together soeveryone participate.
This is not the me show.
I am not the most brilliantcreative mind here.
I need every creative mind.
I need every good idea.
I need every single person'sparticipation.
Don't wait for me to tell youUse your own gifts, abilities
and brain power and let's dothis together.
(14:15):
And when we can get in thatzone.
I honestly believe and I tellthem this all the time we're
unstoppable.
There's nothing we can't do.
There's no problem we can'tsolve.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Ain't no mountain high enough, ain't no valley low
enough.
Thank you, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
The next question to ask is Can I be my authentic
self around them?
So I think that's reallyimportant to be able, especially
in ministry, to have permissionto be a real person.
I think sometimes people lookat ministry leads and like, put
you in some like pastor,untouchable category.
(14:54):
Like, oh, they're the pastor,oh, they're very special, and
it's like you almost have to actthat out.
You know, like, oh, I am verybuttoned up and I'm very uh, you
know, you, you're putting onthis act because you feel like
you can't be yourself aroundthese people, because they're
expecting you to be some roleinstead of some person, or a
(15:17):
function instead of a human.
And I find that exhausting.
I can't keep that up.
And so I love my team because Ifeel like I can be my genuine,
authentic self around them, allmy quirks, all my humor, all my
personality things, my likes, mydislikes, and it's so.
(15:37):
Again, it adds to the longevitybecause who can keep up an act
for that long?
And it creates permission forthem to do the same.
It's like we're all just peopledoing ministry, like we don't
need to think higher or lower ofourselves, but like let's just
be ourselves and createauthentic bonds and ties based
(15:58):
on that.
And then this one I've had tolearn the hard way, but I didn't
come up with this necessarilyin my own brain, but again,
somebody taught this to me, muchlike the question of do I like
them?
Somebody taught me to thinkthis way Are they a fan of me,
this church and this ministryand the way we do things?
(16:21):
Because there's nothing worsethan having to constantly defend
yourself to people who are noton board with your methods and
your ministry and how youparticularly do things.
Like there was someone on mystaff years and years and years
and years ago and it was just soevident he was not a fan and it
(16:45):
was hard.
But I again I didn't know I hadpermission to excuse people like
that.
I was like, well, he's a goodguy, you know he just he does
what he's asked to do and we Ican't ask him to step down.
He didn't do anything wrong.
And someone really challengedmy thinking on that to say why
would you keep someone who isnot a fan of yours or your
(17:05):
ministry or the way you do stuff, only keep your fans around.
And I was like, oh yeah, it iskind of exhausting to have to
like tiptoe around.
Oh no, what are they thinking?
Or oh, it's too loud for them.
Or oh, they don't like this, oraround oh no, what are they
thinking?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
or oh, it's too loud for them, or oh, they don't like
this, or sometimes they can becancerous too, because they will
start talking to other peoplebeing in their ear and like
don't you hate how this, orshouldn't it be like this, right
, and not that it's like yourway or the highway kind of thing
, but it's like that collective,we are in agreement.
This is the direction we'regoing.
And one person's whisperingyeah, but blah, blah, blah.
And yeah, this is no good.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And yeah, it just starts tearing down, uh, the
team from the inside and that'sreally toxic, and not that
there's not room fordisagreement, don't
misunderstand me.
It's not like but that shouldcome to you.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
It shouldn't be put in the ear of all these other
people, these side littleconversations that you're
unaware of, and then all of asudden there's a mutiny or
something.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, and I've never had that happen.
This guy was not even close tothat, but it was more just like
I could tell it was a veryjudgmental posture, like of
everything we did and kind oflike keeping a watchful eye on
us sort of thing.
And it was just like hey, Ijust don't think this is the
(18:17):
place for you, because I don'tget the sense.
You're totally a fan of how wedo things.
I'm open to feedback, of courselike hey, why don't we do this
instead of this?
If somebody is coming to youwith suggestions as the youth
pastor, the worst thing you cando is shut them down.
Suggestions are very different.
Of like, oh, we can make itbetter.
(18:39):
You can tell it's because theywant to see things get better,
instead of just this constantcritical eye of like, well, did
you see those kids and what theydid?
Or did you see that leader?
Blah, blah, blah.
And it's almost like thisspirit of criticism versus a
spirit of wanting things to beimproved and better.
You know and you can well, I canspot the difference, and I'm
(19:02):
sure you can too.
It's just a different feelingof like.
Do you want us to succeed,right?
Or are you just excited to walkaround with your clipboard and
pen and tell me all the things?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
kind of seem a little excited to find the things
wrong, that shout and frown,whatever that german word of
like you take joy and thediscomfort or displeasure of
others exactly sick sick thingsick.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And then the reason this is so important and the
reason we're talking about thisat all kind of what we were,
what I was going to get to inthe beginning is this correlates
to the overall chemistry ofyour youth ministry.
So and the culture of the group.
So, if the leaders are friends,if the leaders are fans of each
other, the whole energy of theyouth group is greatly impacted
(19:50):
and that almost sets the tone.
For, like, this is a place offriendship, of energy, of
chemistry, of love of lifetogether, and I feel like the
students might not be able toput their finger on it, but it's
something you can feel andobserve at the same time,
(20:12):
whereas if none of the leadersare excited to see each other
and don't have any fun or banteror relationship or chemistry, I
think the air and the youthministry gets very stale and
again, that's not to say likewell, so only hire your best
friends or recruit your bestfriends, but you can enjoy
(20:33):
people from all different walksof life, all different stages of
life, to get like that spectrumof life experience on your team
.
But whether it's like the 17year old girl or boy that we
have or the parents of teenagerleaders that we have.
I mean, I would hang out withall of them any day and be
(20:58):
excited to see all of them.
You know I have a differentchemistry with each one, but at
the end of the day, I'm excitedto see every single one of them
and I think they know that andthat comes across.
And so, yeah, all this to saywho you're doing ministry with
is going to greatly impact.
So, yeah, we've talked about.
(21:20):
The first step is actually geta team, because I think one of
the top reasons people burn outis because they are doing
ministry alone.
I mean, I can't imagine goingthrough the hardest seasons of
ministry again alone.
I think I would have thrown inthe towel, honestly, because
sometimes it's like I'm notlooking forward to any of you,
(21:41):
I'm just looking forward to anyof you, I'm just looking forward
to my leaders.
And they're what keep my headabove water where it's like guys
, we got to wait this class out.
You know they are bad news andour ministry is like hurting
right now, but at least we goteach other, you know, and
there's this honesty andcommiseration where we can just
be real like like dang, likethis small group is rough, like
(22:05):
when are they graduating?
Like we got to get you throughthis, you know, and we can be
real about like oh, thisministry right now, the kids are
amazing and all this.
So you like ride the victoriestogether, you ride the low
points together, but again, aslong as you're together, I feel
like you can withstand so muchmore.
Hey, friend, I just wanted tointerrupt this episode for a
(22:27):
second to let you know about anawesome opportunity for you and
your youth ministry.
So last year we launched ourcourse and coaching program
called Youth Ministry GrowthAccelerator and the response has
been amazing.
So we've helped tons of youthpastors grow the size and health
of their youth ministry and wewant to invite you to be a part
(22:48):
of that as well, because maybeyou're just sort of feeling
stuck in a rut, maybe you don'tknow what to do next, maybe you
just have a vague plan in yourmind of what you're doing and
you want some real help to getyou from where you are to where
you want to go.
So if that sounds likesomething you've been looking
for, go togrowyouryouthministrycom and
check it out for more details.
(23:09):
All right, let's get back to theepisode.
So, again, it's not just abouthaving a team.
It's about having a team ofpeople you really really like
and that's why, when we doretreats and stuff, we have so
much fun, because it's like thisis like camp without the
students.
We got to just enjoy each otherwithout having to work and we
love our students and we lovebeing around them.
But our enjoyment of theministry isn't contingent on
(23:34):
where the kids good tonight orwhere the kids bad tonight.
It's like, well, you have goodnights and bad nights with the
kids who who knows?
But we have each other andthat's a constant, because for
the most part, your adultleaders should be constant and
consistent and their behaviorand how they treat you and each
other.
So at least you have that toanchor you because the kids can
(23:57):
go up and down with they're hot,they're cold, their behavior,
the drama, the parents, and it'slike, oh, if our feeling of
ministry changes every singleday because, well, this week
they were great, then nobodycame, now this week it was good
again and then all of a sudden afight broke out, like I mean,
that's a roller coaster, andafter a while you just get
(24:18):
emotionally drained.
I feel like my leaders andtheir relationship with me have
held me constant in my ministryto know, no matter what happens
tonight, I might not like whatI'm doing, but I like who I'm
doing it with, and that is thekey.
I don't know what's going tohappen, but I know who I'm doing
it with, and so I'm good, youknow.
(24:39):
So that's that, jeff, you'restaring at me weirdly.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
That's Kristen's final thought of the day.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
You just are looking at me like I look weird all the
time.
You didn't look weird, you justlooked inquisitive.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I don't know what to tell you.
Make sure you check out theepisode we did I've mentioned it
multiple times on this podcastbut the one we did about how to
recruit the right volunteers foryour youth ministry.
It's kind of everything we weretalking about, but how to
specifically seek out thosepeople and then also the two
episodes we just did.
That's three episodes.
If you have the time to do it,go for it, but let's do a
community comment of the day.
(25:14):
This comes from Pastor Adam7476, who says Adam 7476, who says
more great pearls of wisdom.
I'm a bivocational youth pastorand Thursdays happen to be my
day in the office, with ouryouth group meeting in the
evening.
I look forward to catching thelatest video every Thursday.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Wow, that would be like so fresh in your mind and
then your meeting and youthgroup happens.
So it's like an implement andgo.
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Thanks, pastor Adam, appreciate that.
And thank you guys for watchingand listening and we'll see you
next time.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Today we're going to be talking about.
Who you do ministry with isjust as important as the
ministry you do.
That's what we're talking abouttoday.
There are so many ups and downsin youth ministry.
That's why who you do, or likeyou look like you're about to
fall asleep Is this episode likesuper boring.
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