September 4, 2025 • 30 mins
Check out our new partnership with Onward: Youth & Young Adult Pastor Cohort https://www.onwardleader.com/the-cohort *** As youth ministry leaders, we're problem solvers by definition... steering the ship through challenges that range from predictable to completely unexpected. This episode dives deep into how effective student ministry leaders navigate change while bringing their team along for the journey.
In this episode, we will be taking a look at the Innovation Theory and how it relates to changes you make to your youth ministry. We will also be showcasing the practical strategies for communicating the "why" behind changes, addressing concerns without giving them undue weight, and maintaining your leadership confidence even when facing criticism.
Whether you're considering splitting age groups, starting a student leadership team, discontinuing traditional events, or implementing year-round programming, this episode provides the framework you need to lead change effectively. Your courage to make necessary changes, even in the face of resistance, is what distinguishes truly effective youth ministry leadership.
📕 Book mentioned in this podcast:
Lead Like it Matters - Craig Groeschel https://amzn.to/4mMcZDx
=========
We love hearing from you all and we do our best to provide powerful and insightful youth ministry content on a weekly basis to be that coach and mentor you may not have, but desperately need.
If you have an episode idea, please E-Mail us at MinistryCoachPodcast@gmail.com!
If you have it on your heart to support this ministry, please consider going to our Patreon page at: www.patreon.com/ministrycoach
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You may also enjoy these episodes:
(#087) Youth Pastor Just Hired...What Should You Change About the Existing Youth Ministry?
(#136) How You Can Tell It's Time to Make a Change in Your Youth Ministry
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Check out our new partnership with Onward: Youth & Young Adult Pastor Cohort https://www.onwardleader.com/the-cohort
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we're giving best practices for how to
navigate change in your youthministry.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we
bring you weekly tips andtactics to help you fast track
the growth and health of youryouth ministry.
My name is Jeff Laskola andthis is is.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Kristen Laskola, and today we are talking we're like
putting our leadership hat ontoday and we're going to talk
through some ways that you cannavigate change within your
ministry or your church and howto address problems a little
more effectively.
So change and problems are likenot fun, but neither is
(00:49):
leadership all the time right.
I always tell my interns anddirectors leadership isn't fun.
It's definitely a journey andthe leader's job is to solve
problems Like that's sort of.
What we're put in our positionto do is to steer the ship and
to address problems as they come.
(01:10):
So, like you know, or when theBible says, you should not like
be surprised at the fiery trialsyou are under.
You know, and I feel like youcan just adapt that a hundred
percent to it's like do not besurprised by the problems that
come knocking on your door everyday or in your email inbox or
(01:31):
your text messages, like that'swhat we do, like you are the
chief problem solver of yourministry.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Is it almost one of those things where, if it's not
happening, you're like somethingmust be wrong?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I don't think something's wrong, of those
things where, if it's nothappening, you're like something
must be wrong.
I don't think something's wrong.
I always just let myself enjoythe season, but I tell myself
this will not always be the waythat it is you know whether
somebody you have to letsomebody go, or somebody decides
to leave, or there's drama withstudents, or I mean safety
(02:04):
issues, like you name it, like Icould never have predicted half
the problems, more than half, Icould never have predicted 90%
of the problems you know that weface and the other 10% I was
ready for and I prepared and Isaw coming.
I know how junior hires act on aroad trip.
I I'm prepared for thoseproblems.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
But that's where the problem solving comes in, like
you know, like having to figureout those 90% where you're like
exactly what do I do now?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
What do I do now?
And then the other side likenot that change is a problem,
but it takes on a lot of thesame characteristics of a
problem because you have tonavigate people through it just
like you do a problem.
But change can be good.
That's.
The difference is thatsometimes change is positive but
(02:51):
not everybody sees it that way.
So a couple of years ago Ilearned something called the
innovation theory and I know itso well that I almost couldn't
remember what it was called.
So the innovation theory and Ithought it was really
interesting, and it breaks downthe percentage of people who get
(03:12):
on board with change and peoplewho are slower to adapt.
So it says that only two and ahalf percent of people in
general are innovators, peoplethat see the possibilities and
are like let's go, we're makinga change and they see it.
So it's important to stop onhow small that percentage is,
(03:35):
because just because you see itdoesn't mean everybody else does
.
Maybe you're the kind of leaderwho is an innovator and you've
got ideas and you have visionand you know what to do next and
where to go next and how tocontinually evolve and change
and grow and adapt.
Well good, that's exciting.
We need innovators, but you'reone of very like.
(03:59):
Two and a half percent ofpeople have the real vision of
innovation, which means part ofyour strategy has to be how can
I now bring these people alongwith me?
So 13 and a half percent ofpeople are early adopters where
they see something new.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Those are probably the people who are excited for
the iPhone when it first cameout and like whatever the
current when it first came outand like whatever the current
version is they have like.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I remember when it first came out.
What was that?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Like 2004, maybe something like that.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And I remember I wasn't one of the early adopters
.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I was just like what is this?
Like, yeah, why is everyonefreaking out?
I take more of like a.
You try it first and tell mewhat it's like.
And then I'll decide if it'ssomething I want or not, kind of
thing.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And now everyone's on board, right.
So it was like this percentageof people that was psyched and
excited and knew this was big.
But, according to theinnovation theory, only 13.5% of
people are those early adopters.
And then there's the earlymajority and those are the
people that like, get on boardearly on but they're not, like
(05:13):
they need some convincing, right.
And then they're like yeah,that's great, but there's an
equal amount of people who arethe late majority that'd be me
so it's like they will comeeventually.
They'll come around, but theyhave questions and they have
hesitancies.
So the early adopters, like youcan imagine those, like we said
(05:34):
, those are the people in lineat the apple store or wherever
it got released.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Whatever you're releasing, I want it exactly
they're like.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I don't need to ask any questions.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I'm there and I think that happened too, like there
were products where people werejust signing up and like getting
in line for it's like, what isit?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I don't know what I want it right and then the early
majority sees the earlyadopters have it and they're,
like I do, like that phone okayI'll go get one, or all they
needed was a referral from afriend and that friend was like
no, seriously, this thing isgoing to take off.
It's awesome.
You should get one of thesephones and then the late
majority has.
(06:10):
I think you and I were likesome of the last people of our
friend group or our socialcircle to have a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I remember I got made fun of for my flip phone
forever and then I finally gotone I don't in 2000, and 20, 13,
12 I don't remember like Iwaited a really long time I
think, depending on what it is,I'm on one side or the other of
the majorities early majority orlate majority but not usually
(06:40):
anything quicker than that.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Well, and there's more.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes, 16%.
My father, here we go.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Do you think your dad listens to our podcast?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
We'll find out.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Richard, are you part of the 16% laggers?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So the laggers are?
They're a tough crowd and it'sonly 16%, so it's not that big
of a deal.
But the laggers arecharacterized in the sense of no
matter what you do they're,they're not going to like it.
I don't like it, no matter howmany times we talked to your dad
about sushi and no, we can finda role that you'll like it's
(07:18):
bait.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's bait.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
It's bait, absolutely not.
It's like, well, it's bait,absolutely not.
It's like well, wait, but theyhave things that aren't fish,
and they have tofu and they havevegetables.
I had it one time in 1963 and Inever want to have it again
yeah, he is definitely thedefinition of a lagger, like, no
matter what you say, no matterwhat you do, right, you can have
meeting after meeting, aftermeeting with charts graph,
(07:40):
they're not gonna like it.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It's like if if laggers had a posture, it's arms
crossed yeah, and how many ofyou youth pastors right now are
listening to this and thinkingthis is my senior pastor.
That I work under or is it you?
Are you the laggers calling outeverybody today?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
you might be.
And so even if you're the bestinnovator in the world right,
you're super charismatic, you'vegot vision, you've got ideas
even the best innovators in theworld will always get these
percentages, according to theinnovation theory.
So take that as anencouragement, because this is
(08:20):
true across the board, that ifyou're having trouble like we've
gotten emails from youthpastors, youth workers, youth
volunteers, who will reach outand say, hey, I've got ideas.
It's just I can't get anyone tocome with me and everyone's
like just so hard, it's like I'mpulling them uphill and it's
(08:42):
like nobody will listen to me.
And yeah, I mean based on thesepercentages and numbers that's
why it's difficult of how peopleperceive change and innovation.
So think of Jesus, as someonegave me this math once and I'm
like that's so funny.
It says so take the number ofpeople in your ministry, divide
(09:06):
that by 12, and that's how manyJudas's you should have and
that's how many Judas's youshould have in your ministry?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That person with 11 kids in their group.
They're like, yes, that'sprobably the one we don't have.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Because they're like.
I mean, one in 12 people is aJudas, right?
So let's look at it this waythere's two ways to bring people
along with you to a destination.
Okay, so number one you can goahead of them and then invite
them to join you I've worked forleaders like that.
(09:42):
I've had friends who areleaders like that, that they are
the idea people and they arealready running up the hill and
you better catch up you didn'teven realize.
They left the building.
You're like and they're likehello, I'm over here, come and
get me.
You're like oh shoot, we'relate, you know, and they're just
going, and they're going aloneand they're going fast, and they
(10:03):
invite you to get on board withtheir ideas.
The second way is to takepeople there with you.
This takes longer, this isharder and it actually sometimes
costs more money.
I'm going to give you a casestudy for an example.
So we are growing at our campus, which is a really exciting
(10:25):
thing.
We know that we're turning carsaway.
We're because we have solvedthe problem.
We were turning cars away.
Every service, people wereleaving, there's nowhere to park
and we were running out ofseats and all kinds of things,
and so it was like OK, we knowthat there is a problem, we
(10:46):
don't have enough space, wedon't have enough parking spots,
but nobody really knew the sizeof the problem.
And so I said, can I just takethis problem?
Because if we know the size ofthe problem, then we can know
the size of the solution.
So I worked on figuring outexactly the size of our problem
(11:07):
how many parking spots do weneed, how many seats do we need
and then I can work on arealistic solution.
So me and my friend Chase wereworking hard, we figured out all
these numbers and so now we hada solution.
So here's now theimplementation part of the
change.
So something had to change.
We can't just keep turning carsaway.
(11:28):
Or we didn't want to, I mean Iguess we could have.
We don't want to, we don't wantto tell people our church is
full Bye, like how, like awful,is that Right?
So we knew exactly our growthpercentages, how many parking
spots we needed, allowing for,you know, a cushion and
everything.
And we went over all thesestatistics and growth theories
(11:50):
and I mean we just like hit theground running on this thing.
But now, just because we havethe solution doesn't mean
problem solved.
We have to get people on boardwith the solution, because him
and I can't together, just thetwo of us, like we solve the
parking problem.
It's like, well, here's whatit's going to take.
(12:12):
We're going to need our staffand our volunteers to park
offsite, and they're going tohave to walk to the church and
we have two offsite locationsthat are going to work size wise
.
But we're not just going tosend them an email and be like
we have a solution for you topark elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So what it really came down to is we had this huge
event and we themed it, all funand it was a great team night.
And then we started tellingthem about the problem and I
mean, it was actually a reallygood problem to have and we were
showing them our graphs andthey probably didn't care, but
we wanted to show them like, hey, we've thought long and hard
(12:54):
about this and if we are correcton the future and these numbers
and where all this is going, wehave a solution and here's how
we want you to be a part of it.
And then you know the heartbehind that is.
You know if God is continuingto bring us people and they're
turned away simply due to aparking spot, like not on our
(13:16):
watch.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I'm sure you could agree.
And so it took time, it tookmoney, it took all these things
to bring.
We started with just ourvolunteers, which is like 100,
200, 300 people alone.
You know I 300 people alone.
I just said three numbers.
I don't know how manyvolunteers we have at our church
.
I think it's like 300.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Over three services.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
And that's another thing to bring up it wasn't so
much that capacity was full inthe church, parking was full.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
So we've split like we've done.
We're not split, but we wentfrom one service a long time ago
to two services, to threeservices.
So adding cause some peoplemight think, just add another
service.
You know, breakup it's like.
Well, that wasn't the problem.
The problem was we can fit morepeople in the building fit cars
yeah.
And so that's kind of wherethis, your solution, came from.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, and we spent this whole night doing all this
thing.
We all wore baseball jerseys orwhatever, and it was all these
prizes and games, team theme.
Yeah, and I'll never forget.
At the end of it, one of ourvolunteers came up to us and
goes he's like so you guys didthis whole thing just to ask me
(14:28):
to park at rite aid and we'relike yes.
So will you, and he's like oh,all you had to do was ask.
But because?
he's the 13.5% he is the kind ofperson that is an early adopter
and he's like, oh, I'm sold, Ilove the church, I love the
(14:49):
vision.
You don't need to like, youknow, convince me.
I'm like, yeah, I would havestarted last week.
Somebody else might be like,and I don't know who, nobody
came up and said any of this.
But you know, if thesepercentages are right, there are
people with the hesitancy of,like I'm already serving at this
church, I'm alreadyvolunteering.
(15:10):
Now you want me to park faraway.
Like, oh, is there anythingelse I can do for you?
I have my kids with me.
So what do we?
I now I have to walk all themfrom Rite Aid or whatever it
might be.
So you know there's.
You just have to plan, wheneveryou're implementing change, to
hit people at all thosedifferent percentages and bring
(15:31):
them along with you.
Yes, it would have been quickerto just say, hey, we need
parking.
Please park at Rite Aid.
It could come across as like amemo or a policy or something
like that.
You could have even added alittle heart behind it to say we
really are excited to welcomenew families to our church,
please do this extra service.
(15:53):
And blah, blah, blah.
You still could have done itthat way.
However, I don't think youcould have hit every like.
There's no face-to-face,there's no Q&A, there's no like.
It's more of this gentle,holistic approach of like.
Let's bring the family in on thethinking and don't be afraid to
(16:14):
let people in a little peekbehind the curtain to see, like
why I'm making the decisions.
I am because then it gives youa little more buy-in.
And some people are probablybored to death by our numbers
and statistics, but I wantedthem to see we're not taking
this lightly.
We're not just willy-nillysaying I don't think we have
enough spots.
Can you park it right?
(16:35):
It's like no, I know exactlyhow many spots we need and I
know how many people wereexpected to grow this year and I
know that we can fit them in ifwe work together.
Because, man, it breaks ourheart and I know it breaks your
heart to turn someone away fromchurch.
A new family right ah, killer.
And so like when we can kind oflike all get our head in that
(16:58):
same huddle and we're allthinking now together.
I think it like now guess,guess what?
They're all parking where theyneed to park and we have plenty
of of parking.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
We have not had since we've launched this.
We have not had to turn one caraway, not even close, and yeah,
it like before, it was everysingle service, every single
weekend, like sorry, we're outof parking every time.
So it worked and people arelike I don't mind I don't mind,
(17:32):
I don't mind.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And you said, you, that you started with volunteers
.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
You didn't start with volunteers, you started with
staff, staff parks, off-site,right yeah, so we started with
only staff parking off-site,you're right, and then
volunteers we didn't want to,but so what we did is we staff
parked further away.
So we gave the volunteers wherestaff was parking, and then
(17:55):
staff parked further away andthen gave volunteers the closer
of the off site.
So it was like, hey, staff willmake the larger sacrifice, like
we had to, like, cross a signaland all of that which we didn't
mind.
You know, I even counted theofficial amount of steps that it
took to go from one to theother call me weird, yeah,
because I wanted them to know.
(18:16):
It's really not that far whatis that number?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I can't remember now.
483 steps.
No, I'm just making that up.
Oh, I was like, wow, you have areally good memory.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So then, let's talk about this 16%, these laggers,
your father we can't leave himbehind?
We can't.
So what do we do with them?
We give them our, our heart, wegive them our concern and we
invite them along always.
And the important thing is the16%, the laggers, the ones who
(18:48):
are like I don't like it.
You've got to hear them, you'vegot to listen to them.
Most of them just want to beheard, but, as the leader, you
don't give them undue weightbecause they can derail the
whole.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Thing.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You know.
So it's like I hear you.
I understand I'm going to giveyou the respect of a
conversation, but what leaderscan tend to do is freak out
about a very loud negativeperson and then they think the
plan sucks, nobody likes it.
What are we going to do?
And they start to panic becausesomebody's really upset.
(19:27):
You have to keep percentages inmind and when you know it's the
right thing, you keep pushingforward.
Do we want them to come along?
Absolutely?
Is there a potential to losesomeone?
Yes, and I think that's where aleader has to be brave and to
know this change might make youso upset that you leave.
(19:49):
I can't do anything about that.
I know this is the rightdecision right when you know
this is the right move.
Now, if you have a majorityvery wise people in your life
saying whoa, whoa, whoa, likeyou want to listen to that, but
in the same breath, you alwaysneed to expect a lagger.
So a lagger is not a signalthat no, no, no, no, don't do
(20:13):
this.
It's like, well, yeah, you'reone of the 16%.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Of course, that would be or you're one of those 16%.
Get on board or get out of here.
Or you could look at it as likethe one in 12, like the judas
thing for all you judases um sobut they're, those are usually
like you'll hear from them themost because because they're so
like impacted or against thechange I think all the other
(20:40):
categories will probably be likeyeah, cool, sounds good yeah
and it's the lagger that'll belike oh, I don't know.
You know, and that's right.
Sometimes that's the voice youhear, and then it can really
make you second guess yeah, andI mean innovation is hard.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
leading through change is hard like it's almost
like when you have an idea everylike our senior pastor said
once, like every tip of thesword is pointed at you, you
know like where it's like likeif you of the sword is pointed
at you.
You know like where it's likelike if you're the one who's
like leading it.
Like I know this way, come onand people are kind of like I
(21:14):
don't know, you know and andthat's a hard position to be.
And that's why another level ofwhy leadership is hard.
So a little scriptureencouragement for you is hard.
So a little scriptureencouragement for you.
Ecclesiastes 721 says do not payattention to every word people
say, or you may hear yourservant cursing you, and I love
that.
Not everything is meant foryour ears, not everything is
(21:38):
meant for you to take to heart.
I heard a pastor recently givea really great example of this.
He's like, imagine like I'mdriving home from your house and
my wife and I are talking andwe're like, oh, like, did you
see like some other design stuffin the house?
Like ah, yeah, I didn't lovethat.
And he goes the way we meant.
It is like we love design andit wasn't our taste moving on.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, but you'd take it really personally.
But if you were to, hearexactly.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
if you were to hear it, you probably would never
talk to me again and you wouldjust be like, how could he?
And you would be so hurt, butthe level of weight that I meant
it was just kind of like I lovethem.
I had a blast man.
Their color palette was off.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Anyways, not my, not my choice, but good for them.
So and that's, I think, a lotof wisdom in Ecclesiastes to say
like you can't like pine overevery little word and phrase and
opinion and whatever like, as aleader, sometimes you need to
rise above that and just kind ofbe like I'm not going to please
everyone, everyone.
Some of you will or won't getthat, get it.
(22:47):
You know.
You don't have to announce thatsome of you will get this, some
of you won't, but you just knowlaggers in your heart like this
is all right, like clockwork,in three, two, one, where's the
person who's gonna have aproblem?
and again, you give them yourheart, you talk, you listen, you
hear them out, try to qualmtheir fears or whatever Qualm,
(23:13):
qualm their fears, qualm.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Calm.
Do you have any qualms withcalming their fears?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's 946 and I just cleaned up a fountain of puke in
the bathroom from our kid.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I am tired.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Thanks for witnessing it.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I was on my way to clean it up and throwing a fifth
, and you were kind enough totake one for the team.
Why can't kids aim and hit thetoilet bowl when they throw up?
It's a topic for another day.
Um, why don't you bring thishome?
(23:59):
What is something like not thebarf?
Why don't?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
you wrap this up, why don't you?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
wrap this up, land the plane here, so, like in the
in context.
I know everyone probably hastheir own.
You know what they're thinkingof in regards to this, but give
us some examples of what thismight look like in youth
ministry yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
so like it might look like you wanting to start a
student leadership team and youthink people saying we don't
have enough kids to do it.
It's like like okay, well, yougot to start somewhere.
I think a big one could besplitting middle school and high
school.
I think a lot of youth pastorsdeep down know that's the best
(24:37):
move, but they're really afraidof the crowd.
The crowd isn't always correct,so you can't give undue weight
to them.
Isn't always correct, so youcan't give undue weight to them.
So if you know it's the rightmove deep down, you go for it.
Maybe you're going to get rid ofan event like that you just
don't think is serving youryouth ministry anymore.
You don't really see it's notserving your purpose.
(25:00):
You know, sometimes people getreally attached to a certain
tradition.
But you know, craig Groeschel,if you want to read a great
simple book, lead Like itMatters, and he talks about this
whole idea of focus on thethings that are the most
important and don't getsidetracked by all this ministry
(25:22):
fluff that you could be doing.
Just pick the things you doreally well, that have a big
impact, and just focus there.
Don't spread your net too wide.
So is there an event?
I got rid of an event lastspring that we had done for
years and years and yearsbecause it wasn't really
producing the fruit that Ithought it would and it got
(25:45):
really crowded with Easter andsmall group night out and I
didn't want to take those away.
So I took the event away andguess what?
Nobody really seemed to care ornotice, which told me that I
made the right decision.
So it could be a lot of thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
If you're not meeting during summer and you make want
to make the decision tocontinue meeting through the
summer that can be a bigpushback on that.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Even though it is the right decision to make.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So Henry Nowen said don't give your worth to the
grade givers of the world.
And we can kind of wrap upthere with that encouragement of
everyone's going to try tograve you as a leader, as a
pastor, as a youth worker,whatever your title is.
And we can so often get into aperformative mindset and we give
(26:35):
our worth away to the peoplewho are grading us.
But we need to be careful ofhow much.
I mean.
On what authority are theygrading us?
You know, maybe great authority, but there's always going to be
an opinion, there's alwaysgoing to be somebody who thinks
they could have done it better,that you did it wrong.
(26:57):
But you know, that's why ittakes courage to be a leader and
to do what you know is theright thing.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Next, yeah, strong, all right, let's do what you
know is the right thing.
Next, yeah, strong, all right,let's do a community comment of
the day.
This comes from natasha engman,who says love the tour.
This was again from the youthroom tour episode.
Love the tour and how helpfulit was to see more of how you
run your youth program.
Cool, yeah, if you guys haven'tchecked that out, make sure you
do.
It was a full tour for youryouth night from people love
(27:25):
that episode, including natashaoutside of this room that we
normally film in.
It was in in the world, out inthe world in the church um, just
being able to see kind of likethe full breakdown of the night
from start to finish.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So yeah, thanks, natasha.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Appreciate you for the comment and thank you guys
for watching and listening andwe'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Today, we're talking about the best practices when
emailing your parents of youryouth the parents.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Today, we're talking about the best youth night that
you guys happen to do.
Today we're giving best practices for how to
navigate change in your youthministry.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we
bring you weekly tips andtactics to help you fast track
the growth and health of youryouth ministry.
My name is Jeff Laskola andthis is is.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Kristen Laskola, and today we are talking we're like
putting our leadership hat ontoday and we're going to talk
through some ways that you cannavigate change within your
ministry or your church and howto address problems a little
more effectively.
So change and problems are likenot fun, but neither is
(00:49):
leadership all the time right.
I always tell my interns anddirectors leadership isn't fun.
It's definitely a journey andthe leader's job is to solve
problems Like that's sort of.
What we're put in our positionto do is to steer the ship and
to address problems as they come.
(01:10):
So, like you know, or when theBible says, you should not like
be surprised at the fiery trialsyou are under.
You know, and I feel like youcan just adapt that a hundred
percent to it's like do not besurprised by the problems that
come knocking on your door everyday or in your email inbox or
(01:31):
your text messages, like that'swhat we do, like you are the
chief problem solver of yourministry.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Is it almost one of those things where, if it's not
happening, you're like somethingmust be wrong?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I don't think something's wrong, of those
things where, if it's nothappening, you're like something
must be wrong.
I don't think something's wrong.
I always just let myself enjoythe season, but I tell myself
this will not always be the waythat it is you know whether
somebody you have to letsomebody go, or somebody decides
to leave, or there's drama withstudents, or I mean safety
(02:04):
issues, like you name it, like Icould never have predicted half
the problems, more than half, Icould never have predicted 90%
of the problems you know that weface and the other 10% I was
ready for and I prepared and Isaw coming.
I know how junior hires act on aroad trip.
I I'm prepared for thoseproblems.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
But that's where the problem solving comes in, like
you know, like having to figureout those 90% where you're like
exactly what do I do now?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
What do I do now?
And then the other side likenot that change is a problem,
but it takes on a lot of thesame characteristics of a
problem because you have tonavigate people through it just
like you do a problem.
But change can be good.
That's.
The difference is thatsometimes change is positive but
(02:51):
not everybody sees it that way.
So a couple of years ago Ilearned something called the
innovation theory and I know itso well that I almost couldn't
remember what it was called.
So the innovation theory and Ithought it was really
interesting, and it breaks downthe percentage of people who get
(03:12):
on board with change and peoplewho are slower to adapt.
So it says that only two and ahalf percent of people in
general are innovators, peoplethat see the possibilities and
are like let's go, we're makinga change and they see it.
So it's important to stop onhow small that percentage is,
(03:35):
because just because you see itdoesn't mean everybody else does
.
Maybe you're the kind of leaderwho is an innovator and you've
got ideas and you have visionand you know what to do next and
where to go next and how tocontinually evolve and change
and grow and adapt.
Well good, that's exciting.
We need innovators, but you'reone of very like.
(03:59):
Two and a half percent ofpeople have the real vision of
innovation, which means part ofyour strategy has to be how can
I now bring these people alongwith me?
So 13 and a half percent ofpeople are early adopters where
they see something new.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Those are probably the people who are excited for
the iPhone when it first cameout and like whatever the
current when it first came outand like whatever the current
version is they have like.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I remember when it first came out.
What was that?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Like 2004, maybe something like that.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And I remember I wasn't one of the early adopters
.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I was just like what is this?
Like, yeah, why is everyonefreaking out?
I take more of like a.
You try it first and tell mewhat it's like.
And then I'll decide if it'ssomething I want or not, kind of
thing.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And now everyone's on board, right.
So it was like this percentageof people that was psyched and
excited and knew this was big.
But, according to theinnovation theory, only 13.5% of
people are those early adopters.
And then there's the earlymajority and those are the
people that like, get on boardearly on but they're not, like
(05:13):
they need some convincing, right.
And then they're like yeah,that's great, but there's an
equal amount of people who arethe late majority that'd be me
so it's like they will comeeventually.
They'll come around, but theyhave questions and they have
hesitancies.
So the early adopters, like youcan imagine those, like we said
(05:34):
, those are the people in lineat the apple store or wherever
it got released.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Whatever you're releasing, I want it exactly
they're like.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I don't need to ask any questions.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I'm there and I think that happened too, like there
were products where people werejust signing up and like getting
in line for it's like, what isit?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I don't know what I want it right and then the early
majority sees the earlyadopters have it and they're,
like I do, like that phone okayI'll go get one, or all they
needed was a referral from afriend and that friend was like
no, seriously, this thing isgoing to take off.
It's awesome.
You should get one of thesephones and then the late
majority has.
(06:10):
I think you and I were likesome of the last people of our
friend group or our socialcircle to have a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I remember I got made fun of for my flip phone
forever and then I finally gotone I don't in 2000, and 20, 13,
12 I don't remember like Iwaited a really long time I
think, depending on what it is,I'm on one side or the other of
the majorities early majority orlate majority but not usually
(06:40):
anything quicker than that.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Well, and there's more.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes, 16%.
My father, here we go.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Do you think your dad listens to our podcast?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
We'll find out.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Richard, are you part of the 16% laggers?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So the laggers are?
They're a tough crowd and it'sonly 16%, so it's not that big
of a deal.
But the laggers arecharacterized in the sense of no
matter what you do they're,they're not going to like it.
I don't like it, no matter howmany times we talked to your dad
about sushi and no, we can finda role that you'll like it's
(07:18):
bait.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's bait.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
It's bait, absolutely not.
It's like, well, it's bait,absolutely not.
It's like well, wait, but theyhave things that aren't fish,
and they have tofu and they havevegetables.
I had it one time in 1963 and Inever want to have it again
yeah, he is definitely thedefinition of a lagger, like, no
matter what you say, no matterwhat you do, right, you can have
meeting after meeting, aftermeeting with charts graph,
(07:40):
they're not gonna like it.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It's like if if laggers had a posture, it's arms
crossed yeah, and how many ofyou youth pastors right now are
listening to this and thinkingthis is my senior pastor.
That I work under or is it you?
Are you the laggers calling outeverybody today?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
you might be.
And so even if you're the bestinnovator in the world right,
you're super charismatic, you'vegot vision, you've got ideas
even the best innovators in theworld will always get these
percentages, according to theinnovation theory.
So take that as anencouragement, because this is
(08:20):
true across the board, that ifyou're having trouble like we've
gotten emails from youthpastors, youth workers, youth
volunteers, who will reach outand say, hey, I've got ideas.
It's just I can't get anyone tocome with me and everyone's
like just so hard, it's like I'mpulling them uphill and it's
(08:42):
like nobody will listen to me.
And yeah, I mean based on thesepercentages and numbers that's
why it's difficult of how peopleperceive change and innovation.
So think of Jesus, as someonegave me this math once and I'm
like that's so funny.
It says so take the number ofpeople in your ministry, divide
(09:06):
that by 12, and that's how manyJudas's you should have and
that's how many Judas's youshould have in your ministry?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That person with 11 kids in their group.
They're like, yes, that'sprobably the one we don't have.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Because they're like.
I mean, one in 12 people is aJudas, right?
So let's look at it this waythere's two ways to bring people
along with you to a destination.
Okay, so number one you can goahead of them and then invite
them to join you I've worked forleaders like that.
(09:42):
I've had friends who areleaders like that, that they are
the idea people and they arealready running up the hill and
you better catch up you didn'teven realize.
They left the building.
You're like and they're likehello, I'm over here, come and
get me.
You're like oh shoot, we'relate, you know, and they're just
going, and they're going aloneand they're going fast, and they
(10:03):
invite you to get on board withtheir ideas.
The second way is to takepeople there with you.
This takes longer, this isharder and it actually sometimes
costs more money.
I'm going to give you a casestudy for an example.
So we are growing at our campus, which is a really exciting
(10:25):
thing.
We know that we're turning carsaway.
We're because we have solvedthe problem.
We were turning cars away.
Every service, people wereleaving, there's nowhere to park
and we were running out ofseats and all kinds of things,
and so it was like OK, we knowthat there is a problem, we
(10:46):
don't have enough space, wedon't have enough parking spots,
but nobody really knew the sizeof the problem.
And so I said, can I just takethis problem?
Because if we know the size ofthe problem, then we can know
the size of the solution.
So I worked on figuring outexactly the size of our problem
(11:07):
how many parking spots do weneed, how many seats do we need
and then I can work on arealistic solution.
So me and my friend Chase wereworking hard, we figured out all
these numbers and so now we hada solution.
So here's now theimplementation part of the
change.
So something had to change.
We can't just keep turning carsaway.
(11:28):
Or we didn't want to, I mean Iguess we could have.
We don't want to, we don't wantto tell people our church is
full Bye, like how, like awful,is that Right?
So we knew exactly our growthpercentages, how many parking
spots we needed, allowing for,you know, a cushion and
everything.
And we went over all thesestatistics and growth theories
(11:50):
and I mean we just like hit theground running on this thing.
But now, just because we havethe solution doesn't mean
problem solved.
We have to get people on boardwith the solution, because him
and I can't together, just thetwo of us, like we solve the
parking problem.
It's like, well, here's whatit's going to take.
(12:12):
We're going to need our staffand our volunteers to park
offsite, and they're going tohave to walk to the church and
we have two offsite locationsthat are going to work size wise
.
But we're not just going tosend them an email and be like
we have a solution for you topark elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So what it really came down to is we had this huge
event and we themed it, all funand it was a great team night.
And then we started tellingthem about the problem and I
mean, it was actually a reallygood problem to have and we were
showing them our graphs andthey probably didn't care, but
we wanted to show them like, hey, we've thought long and hard
(12:54):
about this and if we are correcton the future and these numbers
and where all this is going, wehave a solution and here's how
we want you to be a part of it.
And then you know the heartbehind that is.
You know if God is continuingto bring us people and they're
turned away simply due to aparking spot, like not on our
(13:16):
watch.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I'm sure you could agree.
And so it took time, it tookmoney, it took all these things
to bring.
We started with just ourvolunteers, which is like 100,
200, 300 people alone.
You know I 300 people alone.
I just said three numbers.
I don't know how manyvolunteers we have at our church
.
I think it's like 300.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Over three services.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
And that's another thing to bring up it wasn't so
much that capacity was full inthe church, parking was full.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
So we've split like we've done.
We're not split, but we wentfrom one service a long time ago
to two services, to threeservices.
So adding cause some peoplemight think, just add another
service.
You know, breakup it's like.
Well, that wasn't the problem.
The problem was we can fit morepeople in the building fit cars
yeah.
And so that's kind of wherethis, your solution, came from.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, and we spent this whole night doing all this
thing.
We all wore baseball jerseys orwhatever, and it was all these
prizes and games, team theme.
Yeah, and I'll never forget.
At the end of it, one of ourvolunteers came up to us and
goes he's like so you guys didthis whole thing just to ask me
(14:28):
to park at rite aid and we'relike yes.
So will you, and he's like oh,all you had to do was ask.
But because?
he's the 13.5% he is the kind ofperson that is an early adopter
and he's like, oh, I'm sold, Ilove the church, I love the
(14:49):
vision.
You don't need to like, youknow, convince me.
I'm like, yeah, I would havestarted last week.
Somebody else might be like,and I don't know who, nobody
came up and said any of this.
But you know, if thesepercentages are right, there are
people with the hesitancy of,like I'm already serving at this
church, I'm alreadyvolunteering.
(15:10):
Now you want me to park faraway.
Like, oh, is there anythingelse I can do for you?
I have my kids with me.
So what do we?
I now I have to walk all themfrom Rite Aid or whatever it
might be.
So you know there's.
You just have to plan, wheneveryou're implementing change, to
hit people at all thosedifferent percentages and bring
(15:31):
them along with you.
Yes, it would have been quickerto just say, hey, we need
parking.
Please park at Rite Aid.
It could come across as like amemo or a policy or something
like that.
You could have even added alittle heart behind it to say we
really are excited to welcomenew families to our church,
please do this extra service.
(15:53):
And blah, blah, blah.
You still could have done itthat way.
However, I don't think youcould have hit every like.
There's no face-to-face,there's no Q&A, there's no like.
It's more of this gentle,holistic approach of like.
Let's bring the family in on thethinking and don't be afraid to
(16:14):
let people in a little peekbehind the curtain to see, like
why I'm making the decisions.
I am because then it gives youa little more buy-in.
And some people are probablybored to death by our numbers
and statistics, but I wantedthem to see we're not taking
this lightly.
We're not just willy-nillysaying I don't think we have
enough spots.
Can you park it right?
(16:35):
It's like no, I know exactlyhow many spots we need and I
know how many people wereexpected to grow this year and I
know that we can fit them in ifwe work together.
Because, man, it breaks ourheart and I know it breaks your
heart to turn someone away fromchurch.
A new family right ah, killer.
And so like when we can kind oflike all get our head in that
(16:58):
same huddle and we're allthinking now together.
I think it like now guess,guess what?
They're all parking where theyneed to park and we have plenty
of of parking.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
We have not had since we've launched this.
We have not had to turn one caraway, not even close, and yeah,
it like before, it was everysingle service, every single
weekend, like sorry, we're outof parking every time.
So it worked and people arelike I don't mind I don't mind,
(17:32):
I don't mind.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And you said, you, that you started with volunteers
.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
You didn't start with volunteers, you started with
staff, staff parks, off-site,right yeah, so we started with
only staff parking off-site,you're right, and then
volunteers we didn't want to,but so what we did is we staff
parked further away.
So we gave the volunteers wherestaff was parking, and then
(17:55):
staff parked further away andthen gave volunteers the closer
of the off site.
So it was like, hey, staff willmake the larger sacrifice, like
we had to, like, cross a signaland all of that which we didn't
mind.
You know, I even counted theofficial amount of steps that it
took to go from one to theother call me weird, yeah,
because I wanted them to know.
(18:16):
It's really not that far whatis that number?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I can't remember now.
483 steps.
No, I'm just making that up.
Oh, I was like, wow, you have areally good memory.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So then, let's talk about this 16%, these laggers,
your father we can't leave himbehind?
We can't.
So what do we do with them?
We give them our, our heart, wegive them our concern and we
invite them along always.
And the important thing is the16%, the laggers, the ones who
(18:48):
are like I don't like it.
You've got to hear them, you'vegot to listen to them.
Most of them just want to beheard, but, as the leader, you
don't give them undue weightbecause they can derail the
whole.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Thing.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You know.
So it's like I hear you.
I understand I'm going to giveyou the respect of a
conversation, but what leaderscan tend to do is freak out
about a very loud negativeperson and then they think the
plan sucks, nobody likes it.
What are we going to do?
And they start to panic becausesomebody's really upset.
(19:27):
You have to keep percentages inmind and when you know it's the
right thing, you keep pushingforward.
Do we want them to come along?
Absolutely?
Is there a potential to losesomeone?
Yes, and I think that's where aleader has to be brave and to
know this change might make youso upset that you leave.
(19:49):
I can't do anything about that.
I know this is the rightdecision right when you know
this is the right move.
Now, if you have a majorityvery wise people in your life
saying whoa, whoa, whoa, likeyou want to listen to that, but
in the same breath, you alwaysneed to expect a lagger.
So a lagger is not a signalthat no, no, no, no, don't do
(20:13):
this.
It's like, well, yeah, you'reone of the 16%.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Of course, that would be or you're one of those 16%.
Get on board or get out of here.
Or you could look at it as likethe one in 12, like the judas
thing for all you judases um sobut they're, those are usually
like you'll hear from them themost because because they're so
like impacted or against thechange I think all the other
(20:40):
categories will probably be likeyeah, cool, sounds good yeah
and it's the lagger that'll belike oh, I don't know.
You know, and that's right.
Sometimes that's the voice youhear, and then it can really
make you second guess yeah, andI mean innovation is hard.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
leading through change is hard like it's almost
like when you have an idea everylike our senior pastor said
once, like every tip of thesword is pointed at you, you
know like where it's like likeif you of the sword is pointed
at you.
You know like where it's likelike if you're the one who's
like leading it.
Like I know this way, come onand people are kind of like I
(21:14):
don't know, you know and andthat's a hard position to be.
And that's why another level ofwhy leadership is hard.
So a little scriptureencouragement for you is hard.
So a little scriptureencouragement for you.
Ecclesiastes 721 says do not payattention to every word people
say, or you may hear yourservant cursing you, and I love
that.
Not everything is meant foryour ears, not everything is
(21:38):
meant for you to take to heart.
I heard a pastor recently givea really great example of this.
He's like, imagine like I'mdriving home from your house and
my wife and I are talking andwe're like, oh, like, did you
see like some other design stuffin the house?
Like ah, yeah, I didn't lovethat.
And he goes the way we meant.
It is like we love design andit wasn't our taste moving on.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, but you'd take it really personally.
But if you were to, hearexactly.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
if you were to hear it, you probably would never
talk to me again and you wouldjust be like, how could he?
And you would be so hurt, butthe level of weight that I meant
it was just kind of like I lovethem.
I had a blast man.
Their color palette was off.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Anyways, not my, not my choice, but good for them.
So and that's, I think, a lotof wisdom in Ecclesiastes to say
like you can't like pine overevery little word and phrase and
opinion and whatever like, as aleader, sometimes you need to
rise above that and just kind ofbe like I'm not going to please
everyone, everyone.
Some of you will or won't getthat, get it.
(22:47):
You know.
You don't have to announce thatsome of you will get this, some
of you won't, but you just knowlaggers in your heart like this
is all right, like clockwork,in three, two, one, where's the
person who's gonna have aproblem?
and again, you give them yourheart, you talk, you listen, you
hear them out, try to qualmtheir fears or whatever Qualm,
(23:13):
qualm their fears, qualm.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Calm.
Do you have any qualms withcalming their fears?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's 946 and I just cleaned up a fountain of puke in
the bathroom from our kid.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I am tired.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Thanks for witnessing it.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I was on my way to clean it up and throwing a fifth
, and you were kind enough totake one for the team.
Why can't kids aim and hit thetoilet bowl when they throw up?
It's a topic for another day.
Um, why don't you bring thishome?
(23:59):
What is something like not thebarf?
Why don't?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
you wrap this up, why don't you?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
wrap this up, land the plane here, so, like in the
in context.
I know everyone probably hastheir own.
You know what they're thinkingof in regards to this, but give
us some examples of what thismight look like in youth
ministry yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
so like it might look like you wanting to start a
student leadership team and youthink people saying we don't
have enough kids to do it.
It's like like okay, well, yougot to start somewhere.
I think a big one could besplitting middle school and high
school.
I think a lot of youth pastorsdeep down know that's the best
(24:37):
move, but they're really afraidof the crowd.
The crowd isn't always correct,so you can't give undue weight
to them.
Isn't always correct, so youcan't give undue weight to them.
So if you know it's the rightmove deep down, you go for it.
Maybe you're going to get rid ofan event like that you just
don't think is serving youryouth ministry anymore.
You don't really see it's notserving your purpose.
(25:00):
You know, sometimes people getreally attached to a certain
tradition.
But you know, craig Groeschel,if you want to read a great
simple book, lead Like itMatters, and he talks about this
whole idea of focus on thethings that are the most
important and don't getsidetracked by all this ministry
(25:22):
fluff that you could be doing.
Just pick the things you doreally well, that have a big
impact, and just focus there.
Don't spread your net too wide.
So is there an event?
I got rid of an event lastspring that we had done for
years and years and yearsbecause it wasn't really
producing the fruit that Ithought it would and it got
(25:45):
really crowded with Easter andsmall group night out and I
didn't want to take those away.
So I took the event away andguess what?
Nobody really seemed to care ornotice, which told me that I
made the right decision.
So it could be a lot of thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
If you're not meeting during summer and you make want
to make the decision tocontinue meeting through the
summer that can be a bigpushback on that.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Even though it is the right decision to make.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So Henry Nowen said don't give your worth to the
grade givers of the world.
And we can kind of wrap upthere with that encouragement of
everyone's going to try tograve you as a leader, as a
pastor, as a youth worker,whatever your title is.
And we can so often get into aperformative mindset and we give
(26:35):
our worth away to the peoplewho are grading us.
But we need to be careful ofhow much.
I mean.
On what authority are theygrading us?
You know, maybe great authority, but there's always going to be
an opinion, there's alwaysgoing to be somebody who thinks
they could have done it better,that you did it wrong.
(26:57):
But you know, that's why ittakes courage to be a leader and
to do what you know is theright thing.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Next, yeah, strong, all right, let's do what you
know is the right thing.
Next, yeah, strong, all right,let's do a community comment of
the day.
This comes from natasha engman,who says love the tour.
This was again from the youthroom tour episode.
Love the tour and how helpfulit was to see more of how you
run your youth program.
Cool, yeah, if you guys haven'tchecked that out, make sure you
do.
It was a full tour for youryouth night from people love
(27:25):
that episode, including natashaoutside of this room that we
normally film in.
It was in in the world, out inthe world in the church um, just
being able to see kind of likethe full breakdown of the night
from start to finish.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So yeah, thanks, natasha.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Appreciate you for the comment and thank you guys
for watching and listening andwe'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Today, we're talking about the best practices when
emailing your parents of youryouth the parents.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Today, we're talking about the best youth night that
you guys happen to do.
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