November 18, 2024 • 34 mins
Past Grand Master Tony Krall joins us in studio. We deep-dive on a bevy of topics, from collaboration & charity to authentic friendship, brotherhood, and of course, the quality Masonic experience of the 21st century. “I detest titles, just call me Tony…” on an all-new Minnesota Masonic Histories & Mysteries.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi everyone.
Welcome back.
It's another episode ofMinnesota Masonic Histories and
Mysteries.
My name is Reed Endersby.
I am the regional director forthe Grand Lodge of Minnesota, as
well as Minnesota MasonicCharities.
My guest today has been anactive Freemason for many years,
having been active in Demolay inWisconsin before relocating to
Minnesota, and has Where hejoined Minnehaha Lodge number
(00:21):
165 in 1986.
He has served in innumerableroles in the Masonic family.
He's a past potentate of ZurichShrine.
Past Grand Master of Masons inMinnesota in 2022.
And currently serves as the SGIGfor the Scottish Rite, the
Orient of Minnesota.
He's enjoyed a busy career as alitigator, and quite honestly,
(00:42):
keeps a schedule, which makesanyone who thinks they're busy
realize there's always room todo more.
He and his wife Bev have beenmarried for 41 years.
My gosh, two sons, grandkids.
Welcome Tony Kral.
And where does the time go?
It's hard for me to believe thatyour sons are You've got a
couple of grandkids now, uh, 40or pushing 40 couple grandkids.
(01:04):
Now it's it's just the oldcliche of as we get older, the
time goes more quickly.
how does it feel to be agrandfather these days?
Being a grandfather is the bestjob I've ever had.
Really?
I can watch my sons in a role asa father that I could never do
other than having grandkids.
I see them try and mimic me andescape from my bad habits.
(01:25):
Yeah.
You know, I've always wonderedthat, and I don't have children
of my own.
I've had active with nieces andnephews over the years, but how
different it is to see your ownchildren as parents now.
And is that a, is that anopportunity to share more
perspective, things you wish youwould have known back then?
Do you kind of let them learn asthey go or what's, what's that
like?
(01:46):
Well, my sons are a lot like Iam, they don't take instruction
well, so I mostly let them maketheir mistakes.
When asked, I offer advice, andtry and stay out of it.
Watch from afar, I guess.
Wait until you're asked.
Hey, dad, by the way, whatshould I have done in this
situation?
So let's back up a little bit,though.
You grew up in Wisconsin andwent to school there, correct?
(02:10):
Yeah, I was born in Minneapolis,but, uh, my dad worked for
Kmart.
And every 18 months, we weretransferred until I found myself
or the family found itself inChicago in 1968, and the riots
were going on, and he opted toget out of the management
training program and become apermanent manager in La Crosse,
Wisconsin.
And so from the fourth grade on,I went to school in Wisconsin,
(02:31):
college in Wisconsin, moved backto Minnesota for law school.
So all those years in Wisconsin.
I have to imagine it's a Packerfamily, uh, the Badgers, are
you, are you pretty loyal onthat side?
Well, I'm a Packer fan becauseas the oldest son, I had to do
something different than myfather, who was a Viking fan.
Incidentally, both my sons areViking fans growing up in
(02:53):
Minnesota, but my grandsons torebel against their father are
Packer fans.
I see what you did with that.
So you relocated to Minnesotaand you went to law school here?
Yes, at Hamlin.
How's that been in terms of longtime litigator?
Has that always been your areaof specialty?
Or tell us a bit more about yourcareer path.
I needed a job as a law student.
(03:14):
I was running an apartmentbuilding as a manager.
And they decided that theyneeded somebody more
professional than a guy who canbarely screw in a light bulb.
So I, uh, applied for a lawclerk position in my first year
of law school, which is notreally encouraged.
And I got a job, uh, with a lawfirm, uh, that included John
Hanson, who was a past master ofcataract.
(03:37):
As a law clerk, I walked in andsaw John studying a cipher book,
and I knew immediately that Thathe was becoming a mason because
I had taken my inner apprenticein 1977 in Wisconsin.
So I kind of stumbled into thislaw firm that did insurance
defense work, and that's justwhat I've done.
Interesting.
And so you, and we all, a lot ofus know John Hanson.
And so he was going, is he acandidate at the time when you
(03:59):
started at that young age?
He had taken his enteredapprentice.
I think he was studying hiscipher so he could prove up.
Wow.
Okay.
And then let's, let's talk aboutthat for a second.
So you had been in DMLA prettyactive in Wisconsin.
Were you a state mastercounselor?
Did you go through the wholeprocess?
I wasn't a State MasterCounselor.
I had been elected State JuniorCounselor living in Onalaska,
(04:20):
Wisconsin by lacrosse.
All of DMOA was over in theMilwaukee area.
And I realized after a year thatI couldn't fulfill my
obligations.
It was expensive, I wasn't ableto do the driving that I would
need to do, and I just thoughtit would be better for a deeming
wife.
I just stepped out.
I remained active as a member,but not as a leader.
So starting at the law firm andyou're a student, you knew
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exactly what John's cipher, he'sstudying his, uh, proficiency,
shall we say, for non Masons wholisten to this podcast.
Was that an instant connection?
Was that something that you, wasthat a conversation starter that
maybe, obviously you weren'tanticipating at the time?
Yeah, I think it was.
I had, previous to that, foundMinnesota DMA in the phone book
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and called and volunteered.
And so I was doing a littlevolunteer work with them.
And I saw him studying a cipherand it kind of created a bond or
the start of a bond between us.
And from then we just practicedtogether.
I eventually joined, uh, theLodge, uh, I had already been a
DMLA advisor pretty active.
And the executive officer ofDMLA at that time said I'd be a
better advisor if I joined andbecame a Mason.
(05:25):
So I did.
Excellent.
And that's where you landed atMinnehaha then?
Yeah.
That's what I was chapter dadfor the DMLA chapter that met
there.
wow.
That's how fast the time hasgone since then.
And along the way, got married,met Bev.
How did you meet Bev?
Well, we met, we were back inlacrosse.
I started off my college careerat Eau Claire and then
transferred back to lacrossebecause I ran outta money and I
was offered a job managingMcDonald's.
(05:47):
And so I met her while I wasthere and we moved to, uh, St.
Paul together.
So for me to go to law schooland she was going to the
University of Minnesota we gotmarried a couple years later.
That's awesome.
I did not know that that was apart of your career path.
as a young person and payingbills and school and tuition,
What's your favorite memorythinking back to college What's
(06:07):
a random memory that you have ofthat, that has just stuck with
you the whole time?
Paying off my student loans.
All right.
That one makes sense.
Uh, anything more on the.
Is there any sentiment or acertain song playing or just
something locked in your memoryof those days of the early
eighties?
Well, we had a group at theUniversity of Wisconsin La
Crosse that, uh, fanciedourselves political economists.
(06:30):
And so we were pretentiousenough to form something called
the Political Economy Union,where you meet once a week and
talk about politics andeconomics and then go drink
beer.
Being in Wisconsin, that seemsthe natural thing to do, but You
read my mind, yeah.
But it was a fun time to talkabout ideas and philosophies.
That's cool.
You're still in touch with someof those guys now?
No, unfortunately, uh, one ofthem went to law school with me,
(06:52):
uh, but he moved away, and therest of them, we've just grown
apart.
I always had my group of Masonicor DMA friends, and those are
always the people that I wastightest with.
So the political economy unionand all that phase of my life
was more about intellectualstimulation.
But I had this core of friendsthat I kept with, and maybe that
prevented me from expanding my,my friends.
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Were you in a fraternity?
No.
No?
Okay.
We had the motto, we'd rather,have friends and buy beer than
buy beer, or join a fraternity.
Alright.
Anyway.
Hadn't heard that one in awhile, too, having been a short,
well, I was in a fraternity, butthen realized I needed to either
focus on school and studying ifI wanted to finish, or I had to
pick one or the other.
Not a good multitasker on that.
(07:34):
So is what you've been in, asyou alluded to earlier, you've
been in essentially a similartrajectory in the legal field
the whole, this whole time.
Yeah, I, the, the firm I joineddid insurance defense work and I
enjoyed it.
I wanted to be a litigator.
I can't stand just sitting in anoffice and this afforded me an
opportunity to do it and getpaid for it.
(07:55):
Uh, I had, uh, competed, inspeech and debate in college and
in high school and enjoyed itand this seemed like a natural
extension.
I thought of you and a handfulof other friends and brothers
who are in the legal field whenI had jury duty not that long
ago I don't know how I eitherforgot or just didn't appreciate
from the outside until I was init.
The courtroom is a prettypeppery place sometimes.
(08:19):
It can be.
how do you psych yourself up forthat as a litigator?
That's got to be a lot of, uh, alot of static.
There is, there's, there's a, Iget a tunnel vision before I go
to trial.
So you put everything else asideand you focus.
And when I have the opportunityto focus on just one task.
I always claim not to be themost talented person, but I can
(08:40):
outwork anybody.
And so, um, when I go intocourt, I know the facts, I know
the witnesses, I've prepared it.
And so, it's, you're reallyoblivious to all the static at
that point.
I tried a case in March, it wasa fraud case, stemming out of
the, uh, George Floyd riots.
Oh.
And the claim was somebody hadcommitted fraud in submitting
their insurance claim.
Now, not a particularly sexycase, but to try that in
(09:01):
Hennepin County, Very factdependent, very witness and
personality dependent, it wasquite an interesting experience.
How long did that go on?
That was a four day trial, Ibelieve.
Oh, okay.
What's the longest trial you'veever been through, generally
speaking?
Five weeks.
Is that average, or what's theUh, a week long trial is a
normal trial for most meat andpotato type litigators like me.
(09:23):
Okay.
The two year trials, the oneyear trials, the big mass
trials.
You know, tort trials or toxictort stuff, that's not the norm.
That's big firm stuff.
And not, not most litigators,most lawyers will never try a
case longer than a week or twoweeks.
Interesting.
I I thought maybe everyone wasfair game for possibly being in
that year long grind ofsomething that's super involved,
(09:45):
but not necessarily, no, it'snot what most disputes are
about.
I mean, the accident ExxonValdez crash.
Mm-Hmm.
was a long situation, those typeof cases, but.
Even though it's, you know, amonth long trial, it's huge.
So as you look back on so manyyears of all the different
perspectives you've seen in thecourtroom along the way, what
would you say, stands out in acase or a defendant or someone
(10:09):
you crossed paths with thatreally left an impact on you?
Oh, I don't know.
I, I tried a case once down inWaseca and I was impeaching the
witness with his prior sworntestimony and, you, you can tell
when you have control over awitness and, I did in this and
so I would ask him a questionand if he gave a different
answer than he had done before,I would open up his deposition
(10:30):
and impeach him with it.
It got to the point where Iwould ask him a question that
hadn't been asked in hisdeposition and he would say,
well, if it's in there, you mustbe right.
And afterwards, the judge whowent on to the court of appeals,
told me that that was the bestcross examination she ever had
seen.
And that's certainly the bestone I'd ever done.
I just, you can just tell whenyou have a witness and sometimes
the opposite's true.
(10:51):
So let's shift a little to yourMasonic involvement and I talked
about it earlier in your introthat you keep a very busy
schedule In terms of the thebalance of all of that.
How do you do that?
Well, I do it with a supportingwife and family.
Yes, my kids were involved withTeam away Both are past state
master counselors and I'm veryproud of them, but they always
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understood what it was to bebusy.
And we always kind of had afamily philosophy of if you're
going to be involved insomething, be involved, make it
better.
you know, I've been lucky orfortunate enough to have people
put me in positions and I tryand work hard at them.
You know, we're all the greatequalizers.
We have all of seven days a weekand 24 hours in a day is just
what you do with them.
(11:32):
Don't spend a lot of timewatching television.
Don't go to sporting events inthe years, many times as I would
like to, because I prioritizedother things.
that's why I try and tell peoplethat you can do what you just
got to schedule it and make ithappen.
I don't know who to credit thequote to, but it's the, it's not
a case of ever not having thetime.
It's just not devoting the timeto whatever needs to be done.
(11:53):
Exactly.
With all of the different partsof the Masonic family in which
you are involved.
I don't want to ask you what'syour favorite, cause it may be
very difficult to decide or toland on one, but what's been
some of the most enjoyable partsof this, you've been very active
with the Shrine, with ShrinersInternational, with the Supreme
Council of the Scottish Rite,with Grand Lodge and the
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Freemasons, MinnesotaFreemasons, where does all of
that land as you have had somuch exposure and involvement
and have been part of so manyexciting things that I'd be
fascinated to know where thatlands for you.
I found what I was looking forwhen I joined DMLA and that's
guided my life all the waythrough it.
Other than my father, the mostinfluential men in my life were
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the DMLA advisors I grew upwith.
And I tell the story often aboutmeeting with, uh, a man named
Dad Skipton, who was the chapterchairman and he would have every
master counselor come into hisoffice and he had a plaque on
his wall that said, if you wantto leave footprints in the sands
of time, wear work boots orsomething to that effect.
And it always struck me and healways kind of inspired me that
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all you have to do is decide todo it and then do it.
Don't worry about everythingelse.
So, as I became a Mason, Iwasn't active in Masonry to
begin with.
I became a Mason to become abetter DMLA advisor.
the involvement in DMLA has mademe appreciate the fraternity.
I love my Blue Lodge.
The Scottish Rite philosophy,uh, motivates me intellectually.
The idea of tolerance all thoselessons that the Scottish Rite
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stands for, separation of churchand state, uh, that motivates me
intellectually.
Emotionally, it's always goingto be the Blue Lodge.
Shrine was fun.
We enjoyed it.
And so that was a social aspectand I still enjoy it a lot.
I believe in the mission, butthe Scottish Rite and
Freemasonry are the things thatreally motivate my heart and my
mind.
think that plays into a lot ofwhat I hear in my role in
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chatting with prospectivemembers, with people who have
stepped up and said, Hey, I wantto learn more about Freemasonry.
And they are seeking a mentor,that real connection of
friendship and brotherhood,meaningful community engagement,
and The opportunity to give backin a meaningful way, and in this
somewhat crazy world that we arein these days divided where we
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seem to celebrate divisivenessmore than we do with the
collaboration.
It's still again and again seemsas if we have a playbook of a
more happy and harmonioussociety if we can subdue our
passions and some of our ownimperfections.
I agree 100%.
Masonry.
When I try and sell someone onmasonry, it's not focusing on,
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you know, charity or doing good.
That's a part of what we do, butmasonry is about developing
yourself so that the charity isthe natural result of what it
is.
And so I think the focus ofmasonry, at least it has been
for me, is self improvement.
And I have lots of areas I canimprove on, but masonry helps.
It helps remind me of where I amand when I get mad on the road,
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I think about.
Am I being a good mason?
Am I being tolerant?
Am I subduing my passions?
a lot of masons I'm findingaren't aware of the original
definition of charity, datingback to the writing of our
ritual and some of our valueteachings, Charity really
stripped down is aboutbrotherhood.
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It's about friendship.
It's not just, it's stillsynonymous with giving and
providing relief to those inneed, but there really is
something to that bond offriendship and being there for
one another.
the topic of mentoring continuesto be such a, popular topic and
something that Seems likeeveryone in the world regardless
of how old or young they mightbe everyone needs A mentor and
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do you have a memory of someonewho was your mentor either
someone we may know or may notknow Yeah, certainly there are
people throughout my life atdifferent phases That have
inspired me and continue toinspire me the dad skipped and I
mentioned there were peoplealong the way in demille and
masonry that You their memorystill makes me want to do
(15:57):
better.
Anyone in particular?
There was a fellow in Iowa namedMiles Bites.
He was executive officer ofDMLA.
We worked many a leadershipconference where we teach kids
leadership skills, but Miles wasjust a Mason's Mason.
He was quiet, never had aposition of leadership other
than running DMLA.
and there's been a number ofother guys in that.
mold, Ronnie seal, the formergrand commander of the schedule.
(16:19):
Yes.
He was, he was that kind of guy.
He could motivate me withoutever saying anything.
He was a mentor, but he probablynever knew it.
He did it because he showed mehow to do it by the way he
acted.
Isn't that amazing.
Some of the most powerfulleaders, mentors, or influencers
are so often not set out to bebold or to make a big statement.
They just sort of Live theirlife.
(16:41):
They're, they're doing it.
Every day and how that can be socontagious for lack of a better
term.
Couldn't agree with you more.
I mean, Jim Cole's anotherexample of just somebody who you
think my schedule looks bad.
You should look at his schedule.
Oh, I can't even imagine.
But because of the grace and thehumor and the honesty in dealing
with tough decisions, I mean,every time we have a meeting.
(17:02):
And we have to address one ofthose very difficult things.
I'm just inspired.
I want to be like that.
100 percent.
And not long ago, we had a guesthere from the Grand Lodge in New
York, Oscar Allen, who we bothknow.
And he chatted a bit about someof his travels and collaborating
with the northern and southernjurisdiction of the Scottish
Rite and also with Prince Hall.
(17:23):
And there's some really excitingthings happening out there on
the collaboration front ofgetting together.
Truly, uh, the, the unity that'shappening, especially we see it
in the Scottish Rite is, isreally inspiring and motivating
right now.
Absolutely is.
And I think that's attributableto Grand Commander Cole.
Um, he's been a mover in that.
He invited me to be part of hisentourage.
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I've never been in an entouragebefore to go to the Prince Hall
Northern Masonic JurisdictionScottish Rite session.
And it was a marvelousexperience, but in watching the
two Sovereign Grand Commandersof the Prince Hall and the
Grand, the Sovereign GrandCommander of the Northern
Jurisdiction, it is apparentthat all four of them are
interested in the unity and thestatement that it sends.
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And we may not be able to changeevery Grand Lodge and every
Mason's opinion, but we can leadby example.
And so, if there's aorganizational mentorship, I
think the Scottish Rite istrying to fill that.
No doubt about it.
And that statement of unity thattook place in September of 2022,
was very powerful.
And that's something that Oscarand I talked about.
(18:28):
it's great to see that not onlythat occurred and that statement
was made, but it's more thanjust saying the words and
aligning ourselves with thesentiment.
The work is actually in motionand being done to go out there
and do the hard work that makesthe difference at the end of the
day.
And we all have so manyresources that we can share.
Grand Commander Cole created andgave to the Prince Hall Northern
(18:50):
Masonic Jurisdiction the KCCHprogram.
Oh.
As you know, the NorthernJurisdiction doesn't have it,
and neither of the Prince HallJurisdictions didn't have it.
So he bestowed the first KCCHred hat on Grand Commander
Blasemore.
Wow.
And it was kind of cool.
They voted and they want toimplement the program to honor
some of their younger guys.
(19:10):
That's great to hear.
and on that similar point aboutdoing the work that needs to be
done.
And that's something that all ofus can do as Blue Lodge.
Minnesota Freemasons and beyondto take The teachings and take
the tenets of our profession aswe say meaningful friendship
charity or relief Being thatupstanding that that person that
(19:31):
is embracing timeless corevalues and be the change out
there not just talk about it Notjust acknowledge that.
Yes.
These are the things that wealign ourselves with which is
the first step but there's a bigdifference between just So it's
all about, um, aligningourselves with the right or
wrong side of something, butthen actually going out and
doing the work, even if it's ina small little case by case
(19:52):
basis every day.
I agree.
We too often can cop out and notdo the right thing.
I can't tell other grand lodgeswhat to do, but I can show them
that we're doing it.
And we're doing it.
Well, We in Minnesota are solucky to have a climate that's
progressive when it comes tothose type of things.
(20:12):
And we can be proud that we wereone of the first states to have
full recognition of Prince HallMasonry.
So that's a part of our historythat we have walked the walk.
We did what we should have donemany years ago, but we were
among the first to do it.
And we still reap the benefitsof it today.
time and again, in theconversations I'm having with.
(20:32):
gentlemen that are seekingadditional information for
themselves to pursueFreemasonry, for their family,
their wife, and kids to beinvolved in some of the social
sides of things.
The world, is it safe to say,has never craved more a place
where we can be non sectarian,apolitical, leave the hot button
topics at the door and cometogether as friends and as
(20:55):
humans and have that person toperson connection.
That's certainly theaspirational goal.
We don't always succeed in it,but I gave a speech once at a
Grand Lodge I attended this lastweek.
And the topic was, you know,where else in the world can men
of different faiths andpolitical persuasions you know,
walk arm in arm for thebetterment of humanity.
(21:17):
That's kind of a broadaspirational goal, but I truly
believe it.
We've got to start with doingwhat's right, not just talking
about what's right.
Like I say, I'm very proud to bea Minnesota Mason because we
have done what's right.
We don't just talk about it.
It's really motivating andinspiring when we strip this
down and talk about it in thatcontext.
And you've had a lot of travelsover the years to some, I'm
(21:40):
sure, very fun or unique places,but speaking on the memory
front, what would you say is atop or even top three memories
of travels, of meetings, peoplethat you've met?
Oh, that's a tough question.
I had the opportunity afterserving DMLA on their national
board to make the first everpresentation for DMLA to the
(22:00):
Conference of Grandmasters ofNorth America.
Now it didn't hurt that themeeting was in Honolulu, but I
was able to put together apresentation.
I had to teach myself how to usePowerPoint because that was this
little unknown program thatnobody had used.
And we were able to present notthe Grandmasters.
I asked not to talk to them.
I wanted to talk to the secondand third in command.
to tell them what they shouldexpect from their DMLA executive
(22:23):
officers, and it was really atask list that they should hold
their executive officersaccountable for, but it ended up
being this marvelous discussionabout interaction between DMLA
and Grand Lodges.
It was back in 1998, and itstill is very memorable because
I thought it made an impact.
Who knows if it did, but Ireceived compliments for it and
(22:44):
I was very happy with thesubstance of what we provided.
We didn't just stand up and say,thank you for your support, come
to our meetings.
We need more members.
I tried to give them tools thatthey could actually use in
making DMLA and masonry betterin their estate.
the way that was teed up in away that could still have a
ripple effect of effectivenessefficiency for several
(23:04):
generations after that.
Well, yeah, you hope so.
I mean, on the other hand, uh, Iwas a newly elected grandmaster
of DLA.
My son, Andy, who's now 40 was13.
I think it just joined DLA.
And so I went out to theconclave of Southern California.
They're famous for having 500boys plus adults at their
banquet.
I took my son and I hooked himup with a little local Demilay
(23:26):
chapter there and said, he's notthe grandmaster's son.
He's just a kid.
And they adopted him and it wasgreat.
So we come time for the banquetand they have these long four
hour banquets, but it came timefor me to speak.
And I gave just what I thoughtwas a really great speech.
All the adults are saying, Hey,I had a boy, good job.
I asked my son on the airplanehome, what'd you think of my
speech?
And he goes, You spoke at thebanquet?
(23:48):
So it was very humbling.
Where was he at the time?
Or were they just distractedwith some kid stuff?
He was at the table with theother guys that he had met, his
new best friends and the girls,the sweethearts that were there.
And, you know, a four hourbanquet.
It's not going to hold theattention of young kids.
Well, yeah, that is true.
I didn't think about the an hourlong banquet is probably
challenging enough, especiallyfor young people.
(24:08):
But What else comes to mind onthat in terms of the back to
Scottish Rite for a moment asthe SGIG for the state of
Minnesota What else is on thehorizon in the future Delivering
our lessons through the ritual,through the degrees, in a
better, more classy way.
And all the Valleys are doingwell in that regard.
We try and work hand in handwith Blue Lodge Masonry.
(24:31):
I mean, I believe that by beingan active Scottish Rite member,
you're a better Blue LodgeMason.
And if there's ever a symbioticrelationship, that's it.
I'm encouraging my personalrepresentatives to work with the
lodges, work with the districtrepresentatives to try and be
complementary of what we do.
We're not in competition witheach other, we're to complement
each other.
(24:51):
All the valleys have the sameissues, trying to balance the
budget, trying to maintain thebuilding, trying to deliver
programs, trying to get peopleto come.
And so I'm continually trying tochallenge them to come up with
new ideas, to execute that sameprogram, the delivery of the,
the tenants of Freemasonry andScottish Rite.
It's great to hear.
And I recall hearing Jim Colesay at a conference in the last
(25:14):
couple of years that two thirdsof the, Blue Lodge Masons who do
join the Scottish Rite are thatmuch more active.
There's a true retention there.
There's been that push pullabout, well, don't join the
Appendant Body because, and I'mall for maybe somebody joining a
Blue Lodge and staying, reallydigesting Freemasonry, the
(25:34):
tenets of what we do and theexperience, really understanding
what it means to be a Mason.
Before rushing into the ScottishRite or one of the Appendant
bodies, but when the time isright, those that do it is a
great back and forth that thatsame brother is two thirds of
the time, more active in theirblue lodge than they would've
been otherwise.
Very complimentary.
(25:55):
Well, and those statistics arepretty clear that if you're a
member of an independent body,you're much like less likely to
be dropped for NPD.
My job as a Mason is to get themback in the Lodge and show them
that we have something to offer.
If they want to continue to paydues so they can march in a band
or drive a motorcycle, God blessthem.
But my challenge as a Lodgemember is to offer them
something.
(26:15):
Invite them back.
Make, make them sure they knowthey're welcome.
Yeah.
And what are we doing to.
show them as an outsider.
They don't know.
They just know they want to jointhe shrine or independent body,
but then what are we doing togive them that value in getting
involved, staying involved, andthen complimenting both, ideally
balancing that schedule ofinvolvement.
Not enough, but I thinkindividual lodges do good jobs
(26:39):
at making sure they're invitedback, making sure they're not
embarrassed.
And so, there's opportunities inevery lodge to find somebody who
didn't find what they werelooking for originally.
But, times change.
People change.
So we've got to continually takecare of our brothers.
Uh, bye.
inviting them, making surethey're welcome back.
Sometimes it's very crucial.
(26:59):
It's a great way to.
To reach out to any brothers.
You think of a brother randomly,check in with him, send a text,
send an email, make a phonecall.
How are you doing?
Start out with just knowingwhat's going on in each other's
lives and then really being ableto extend that welcome back to
lodge.
Hey, if your time and yourschedule allows, we'd really
like to see you again.
Just to have you back amongstour brothers again.
(27:21):
Something as simple as what DaveCamp does in the Minneapolis
Valley.
A birthday card to every memberon his birthday.
Those little things when they'recontacted, not only for getting
dues paid, but just, we rememberyou.
We want you.
What do you see as the future ofthe craft?
As we talked about today,there's a huge wish and desire.
(27:44):
generally speaking out insociety for what we stand for.
And although we talk about thisfrequently on this podcast, we
may not get back to the days of70, 000 members in our state
overnight, but in terms of thequality experience in What the
world wants?
And quite honestly needs outthere.
What does that look like in yourperspective?
(28:05):
Well, if I were the king of theworld and could, yes exactly.
Could you just wave the wand?
What would you do?
I would start at the Grand Lodgelevel and make sure that we're
delivering quality programs fromthe annual communication one day
to May is free.
Quality in term, I think weoffer quality programs now, but
quality programs that young menmiddle aged men want.
You know, breakout sessions atthe in your communication.
(28:27):
I'm going to be more than justgetting the districts together
to talk business.
They've got to be somewhatinspirational, motivational.
The charity's breakfast.
We need to make sure that we'representing things in a classy,
competent, professional mannerthat's mentoring for
organizations again.
If we do it right, maybe it'llinspire some of the lodges to do
it right.
I think that we're going to getsmaller before we get bigger.
(28:49):
And I think we need to quitworrying about it.
I think we have programs inplace to address that.
But we have the ritual and theteachings that are timeless in
my mind.
So I think we'll get smallerbefore we get bigger and
stronger.
I don't think we'll ever get tothe size we were after the wars.
I think it'll be a more stableenvironment in 15 years.
(29:11):
Most definitely.
And the things you shared aredefinitely in motion and being
worked on, but to your point,before we can think about
growing in a meaningful waywhere we retain our members,
it's providing that experienceand thinking about things
through a slightly differentapproach than maybe past
generations have.
And especially on that educationfront that I'm seeing.
(29:34):
First hand that lodges, whenthey talk about education,
certainly the Masonic educationis important.
It's a foundation of what we do,but also interjecting some non
Masonic education, havingcontent that is relevant and
meaningful to our membersoutside of the setting of the
lodge.
That could be so many differentthings too.
(29:54):
Absolutely.
The Valley of Duluth had apresentation on.
I don't know what you would callit.
How to tie your tie, how to tiea bowtie.
An etiquette type thing?
It was more than just etiquette,but it was like men's style.
I accuse you of being a fancyman sometimes, but it was, it
was Extremely informative andthe brothers kept the guy
answering questions for almostan hour.
(30:16):
Wow, and he was a haberdasher Sohe talked about different types
of clothing and what thestandard rules were and how they
were Changing and you knowmorning suits and the whole
history of it Well, I alwaysthought I knew something about
it But I learned a lot and thefact that the brothers who are
primarily older men with amixture of younger They It's a
great question.
kept an hour of questions.
(30:37):
Wow.
That speaks to what is needed.
I think education, I dread, uh,Leo presentations that are what
does Masonry mean to you?
I don't, I'm just not, it's notthat I'm uncomfortable with it,
but what you interpret this tobe is okay, maybe interesting.
I'd rather hear a mixture ofhard topics like Masonic
(30:57):
Presidents or, the Morgan affairor whatever.
I'm interested in non Masoniceducation as well.
I don't think we always have tohave a Leo presentation in the
middle of a lot of meeting.
I like them when they're atdinner.
I like them at dinner, but toyour point, I like to hear
something that I, I wouldn't getat home.
I wouldn't, I wouldn'tnecessarily seek that out or
(31:18):
have that book on the shelf or,or on the iPad that I could just
pull that up, like somethingthat's maybe a A little more
unique and out of the box a bit.
And we talked about the, theclothing, the sartorial thing,
and that was really a reminder.
We don't teach that anymore aswe, you and I learned it from
dads and grandparents, but it's,it's something that we've seen
(31:39):
that in also the civilityproject that we've partnered
with Masonic Charities on thathas really been impactful for
young people and their parents.
It's talking about the need foryoung people to be embracing
core values that why it'simportant to be that change,
especially at that age.
And I'm really excited about thecivility project.
(32:00):
Also we've called the civilityschool in which we're going out
into communities, helping youngpeople navigate this crazy world
we live in with digital sodifferent than from an.
Um, and it's not just, you know,guys like you and I were
younger, but it's also bettershowcasing what Freemasonry is.
And that's, that's so huge.
(32:21):
Tom McCarthy had an idea once Icould never execute.
And he had an idea of lodgesholding a breakfast once a
month, calling it men ofcharacter or an adult male.
And a teenager would come forbreakfast and some sort of a
motivational speech on what itmeans to be a man.
And I always loved the idea.
I could never pull it off, but Istill think it's a good idea.
(32:43):
I know of a handful of lodgesout there doing that monthly
breakfast and get together.
And it's so huge on thebrotherhood side of things,
knowing what's going on in eachother's lives.
And those are the times overcoffee, breakfast, having a
beverage together where wereally get to, strip away all of
the stress and the layers ofwork and family and all of our
(33:03):
other obligations and just trulybeing there for one another as
authentic friends and brothers.
Before we wrap up today, I justwant to say thank you for all of
the time that you have put intoall of the different layers of
the Masonic family.
The Blue Lodge being serving asGrand Master, Appendant Body
Involvement, you really are aninspiration to our Blue Lodge
(33:24):
Masons to carve out a littlemore time to really focus on the
foundation of what it is to be aMason and to go out in the world
and be that difference.
Well, I appreciate your words,but I feel self conscious
because it's been a labor oflove.
I'm passionate about masonry.
I love it.
I may not be the most emotionalguy, but I'm a dedicated guy.
(33:45):
I haven't done anything I didn'twant to do.
I've enjoyed every minute of it.
Well, and that to me is a trueservant leader.
You're not in it for anythingother than the love of what we
stand for and what we set out todo.
That's it.
I, I detest titles.
I would prefer nobody call meMost Worshipful or SGIG and just
call me Tony.
And I just enjoy theparticipation.
(34:05):
While the honors are required attimes, but at the end of the
day, we're all brothers.
Exactly.
Brother to brother and friend tofriend and then please say, Hi
to Bev for us and your family.
And it's just been, I reallyappreciate you carving out time
to visit the studio today andget to know you more, a little
more about your, your backgroundand how the journey of life
(34:25):
arrived here today.
Well, I appreciate you havingme.
Tony Kral.
Thank you so much.
This has been another episode ofMinnesota Masonic Histories and
Mysteries.
Hi everyone.
Welcome back.
It's another episode ofMinnesota Masonic Histories and
Mysteries.
My name is Reed Endersby.
I am the regional director forthe Grand Lodge of Minnesota, as
well as Minnesota MasonicCharities.
My guest today has been anactive Freemason for many years,
having been active in Demolay inWisconsin before relocating to
Minnesota, and has Where hejoined Minnehaha Lodge number
(00:21):
165 in 1986.
He has served in innumerableroles in the Masonic family.
He's a past potentate of ZurichShrine.
Past Grand Master of Masons inMinnesota in 2022.
And currently serves as the SGIGfor the Scottish Rite, the
Orient of Minnesota.
He's enjoyed a busy career as alitigator, and quite honestly,
(00:42):
keeps a schedule, which makesanyone who thinks they're busy
realize there's always room todo more.
He and his wife Bev have beenmarried for 41 years.
My gosh, two sons, grandkids.
Welcome Tony Kral.
And where does the time go?
It's hard for me to believe thatyour sons are You've got a
couple of grandkids now, uh, 40or pushing 40 couple grandkids.
(01:04):
Now it's it's just the oldcliche of as we get older, the
time goes more quickly.
how does it feel to be agrandfather these days?
Being a grandfather is the bestjob I've ever had.
Really?
I can watch my sons in a role asa father that I could never do
other than having grandkids.
I see them try and mimic me andescape from my bad habits.
(01:25):
Yeah.
You know, I've always wonderedthat, and I don't have children
of my own.
I've had active with nieces andnephews over the years, but how
different it is to see your ownchildren as parents now.
And is that a, is that anopportunity to share more
perspective, things you wish youwould have known back then?
Do you kind of let them learn asthey go or what's, what's that
like?
(01:46):
Well, my sons are a lot like Iam, they don't take instruction
well, so I mostly let them maketheir mistakes.
When asked, I offer advice, andtry and stay out of it.
Watch from afar, I guess.
Wait until you're asked.
Hey, dad, by the way, whatshould I have done in this
situation?
So let's back up a little bit,though.
You grew up in Wisconsin andwent to school there, correct?
(02:10):
Yeah, I was born in Minneapolis,but, uh, my dad worked for
Kmart.
And every 18 months, we weretransferred until I found myself
or the family found itself inChicago in 1968, and the riots
were going on, and he opted toget out of the management
training program and become apermanent manager in La Crosse,
Wisconsin.
And so from the fourth grade on,I went to school in Wisconsin,
(02:31):
college in Wisconsin, moved backto Minnesota for law school.
So all those years in Wisconsin.
I have to imagine it's a Packerfamily, uh, the Badgers, are
you, are you pretty loyal onthat side?
Well, I'm a Packer fan becauseas the oldest son, I had to do
something different than myfather, who was a Viking fan.
Incidentally, both my sons areViking fans growing up in
(02:53):
Minnesota, but my grandsons torebel against their father are
Packer fans.
I see what you did with that.
So you relocated to Minnesotaand you went to law school here?
Yes, at Hamlin.
How's that been in terms of longtime litigator?
Has that always been your areaof specialty?
Or tell us a bit more about yourcareer path.
I needed a job as a law student.
(03:14):
I was running an apartmentbuilding as a manager.
And they decided that theyneeded somebody more
professional than a guy who canbarely screw in a light bulb.
So I, uh, applied for a lawclerk position in my first year
of law school, which is notreally encouraged.
And I got a job, uh, with a lawfirm, uh, that included John
Hanson, who was a past master ofcataract.
(03:37):
As a law clerk, I walked in andsaw John studying a cipher book,
and I knew immediately that Thathe was becoming a mason because
I had taken my inner apprenticein 1977 in Wisconsin.
So I kind of stumbled into thislaw firm that did insurance
defense work, and that's justwhat I've done.
Interesting.
And so you, and we all, a lot ofus know John Hanson.
And so he was going, is he acandidate at the time when you
(03:59):
started at that young age?
He had taken his enteredapprentice.
I think he was studying hiscipher so he could prove up.
Wow.
Okay.
And then let's, let's talk aboutthat for a second.
So you had been in DMLA prettyactive in Wisconsin.
Were you a state mastercounselor?
Did you go through the wholeprocess?
I wasn't a State MasterCounselor.
I had been elected State JuniorCounselor living in Onalaska,
(04:20):
Wisconsin by lacrosse.
All of DMOA was over in theMilwaukee area.
And I realized after a year thatI couldn't fulfill my
obligations.
It was expensive, I wasn't ableto do the driving that I would
need to do, and I just thoughtit would be better for a deeming
wife.
I just stepped out.
I remained active as a member,but not as a leader.
So starting at the law firm andyou're a student, you knew
(04:41):
exactly what John's cipher, he'sstudying his, uh, proficiency,
shall we say, for non Masons wholisten to this podcast.
Was that an instant connection?
Was that something that you, wasthat a conversation starter that
maybe, obviously you weren'tanticipating at the time?
Yeah, I think it was.
I had, previous to that, foundMinnesota DMA in the phone book
(05:02):
and called and volunteered.
And so I was doing a littlevolunteer work with them.
And I saw him studying a cipherand it kind of created a bond or
the start of a bond between us.
And from then we just practicedtogether.
I eventually joined, uh, theLodge, uh, I had already been a
DMLA advisor pretty active.
And the executive officer ofDMLA at that time said I'd be a
better advisor if I joined andbecame a Mason.
(05:25):
So I did.
Excellent.
And that's where you landed atMinnehaha then?
Yeah.
That's what I was chapter dadfor the DMLA chapter that met
there.
wow.
That's how fast the time hasgone since then.
And along the way, got married,met Bev.
How did you meet Bev?
Well, we met, we were back inlacrosse.
I started off my college careerat Eau Claire and then
transferred back to lacrossebecause I ran outta money and I
was offered a job managingMcDonald's.
(05:47):
And so I met her while I wasthere and we moved to, uh, St.
Paul together.
So for me to go to law schooland she was going to the
University of Minnesota we gotmarried a couple years later.
That's awesome.
I did not know that that was apart of your career path.
as a young person and payingbills and school and tuition,
What's your favorite memorythinking back to college What's
(06:07):
a random memory that you have ofthat, that has just stuck with
you the whole time?
Paying off my student loans.
All right.
That one makes sense.
Uh, anything more on the.
Is there any sentiment or acertain song playing or just
something locked in your memoryof those days of the early
eighties?
Well, we had a group at theUniversity of Wisconsin La
Crosse that, uh, fanciedourselves political economists.
(06:30):
And so we were pretentiousenough to form something called
the Political Economy Union,where you meet once a week and
talk about politics andeconomics and then go drink
beer.
Being in Wisconsin, that seemsthe natural thing to do, but You
read my mind, yeah.
But it was a fun time to talkabout ideas and philosophies.
That's cool.
You're still in touch with someof those guys now?
No, unfortunately, uh, one ofthem went to law school with me,
(06:52):
uh, but he moved away, and therest of them, we've just grown
apart.
I always had my group of Masonicor DMA friends, and those are
always the people that I wastightest with.
So the political economy unionand all that phase of my life
was more about intellectualstimulation.
But I had this core of friendsthat I kept with, and maybe that
prevented me from expanding my,my friends.
(07:13):
Were you in a fraternity?
No.
No?
Okay.
We had the motto, we'd rather,have friends and buy beer than
buy beer, or join a fraternity.
Alright.
Anyway.
Hadn't heard that one in awhile, too, having been a short,
well, I was in a fraternity, butthen realized I needed to either
focus on school and studying ifI wanted to finish, or I had to
pick one or the other.
Not a good multitasker on that.
(07:34):
So is what you've been in, asyou alluded to earlier, you've
been in essentially a similartrajectory in the legal field
the whole, this whole time.
Yeah, I, the, the firm I joineddid insurance defense work and I
enjoyed it.
I wanted to be a litigator.
I can't stand just sitting in anoffice and this afforded me an
opportunity to do it and getpaid for it.
(07:55):
Uh, I had, uh, competed, inspeech and debate in college and
in high school and enjoyed itand this seemed like a natural
extension.
I thought of you and a handfulof other friends and brothers
who are in the legal field whenI had jury duty not that long
ago I don't know how I eitherforgot or just didn't appreciate
from the outside until I was init.
The courtroom is a prettypeppery place sometimes.
(08:19):
It can be.
how do you psych yourself up forthat as a litigator?
That's got to be a lot of, uh, alot of static.
There is, there's, there's a, Iget a tunnel vision before I go
to trial.
So you put everything else asideand you focus.
And when I have the opportunityto focus on just one task.
I always claim not to be themost talented person, but I can
(08:40):
outwork anybody.
And so, um, when I go intocourt, I know the facts, I know
the witnesses, I've prepared it.
And so, it's, you're reallyoblivious to all the static at
that point.
I tried a case in March, it wasa fraud case, stemming out of
the, uh, George Floyd riots.
Oh.
And the claim was somebody hadcommitted fraud in submitting
their insurance claim.
Now, not a particularly sexycase, but to try that in
(09:01):
Hennepin County, Very factdependent, very witness and
personality dependent, it wasquite an interesting experience.
How long did that go on?
That was a four day trial, Ibelieve.
Oh, okay.
What's the longest trial you'veever been through, generally
speaking?
Five weeks.
Is that average, or what's theUh, a week long trial is a
normal trial for most meat andpotato type litigators like me.
(09:23):
Okay.
The two year trials, the oneyear trials, the big mass
trials.
You know, tort trials or toxictort stuff, that's not the norm.
That's big firm stuff.
And not, not most litigators,most lawyers will never try a
case longer than a week or twoweeks.
Interesting.
I I thought maybe everyone wasfair game for possibly being in
that year long grind ofsomething that's super involved,
(09:45):
but not necessarily, no, it'snot what most disputes are
about.
I mean, the accident ExxonValdez crash.
Mm-Hmm.
was a long situation, those typeof cases, but.
Even though it's, you know, amonth long trial, it's huge.
So as you look back on so manyyears of all the different
perspectives you've seen in thecourtroom along the way, what
would you say, stands out in acase or a defendant or someone
(10:09):
you crossed paths with thatreally left an impact on you?
Oh, I don't know.
I, I tried a case once down inWaseca and I was impeaching the
witness with his prior sworntestimony and, you, you can tell
when you have control over awitness and, I did in this and
so I would ask him a questionand if he gave a different
answer than he had done before,I would open up his deposition
(10:30):
and impeach him with it.
It got to the point where Iwould ask him a question that
hadn't been asked in hisdeposition and he would say,
well, if it's in there, you mustbe right.
And afterwards, the judge whowent on to the court of appeals,
told me that that was the bestcross examination she ever had
seen.
And that's certainly the bestone I'd ever done.
I just, you can just tell whenyou have a witness and sometimes
the opposite's true.
(10:51):
So let's shift a little to yourMasonic involvement and I talked
about it earlier in your introthat you keep a very busy
schedule In terms of the thebalance of all of that.
How do you do that?
Well, I do it with a supportingwife and family.
Yes, my kids were involved withTeam away Both are past state
master counselors and I'm veryproud of them, but they always
(11:12):
understood what it was to bebusy.
And we always kind of had afamily philosophy of if you're
going to be involved insomething, be involved, make it
better.
you know, I've been lucky orfortunate enough to have people
put me in positions and I tryand work hard at them.
You know, we're all the greatequalizers.
We have all of seven days a weekand 24 hours in a day is just
what you do with them.
(11:32):
Don't spend a lot of timewatching television.
Don't go to sporting events inthe years, many times as I would
like to, because I prioritizedother things.
that's why I try and tell peoplethat you can do what you just
got to schedule it and make ithappen.
I don't know who to credit thequote to, but it's the, it's not
a case of ever not having thetime.
It's just not devoting the timeto whatever needs to be done.
(11:53):
Exactly.
With all of the different partsof the Masonic family in which
you are involved.
I don't want to ask you what'syour favorite, cause it may be
very difficult to decide or toland on one, but what's been
some of the most enjoyable partsof this, you've been very active
with the Shrine, with ShrinersInternational, with the Supreme
Council of the Scottish Rite,with Grand Lodge and the
(12:14):
Freemasons, MinnesotaFreemasons, where does all of
that land as you have had somuch exposure and involvement
and have been part of so manyexciting things that I'd be
fascinated to know where thatlands for you.
I found what I was looking forwhen I joined DMLA and that's
guided my life all the waythrough it.
Other than my father, the mostinfluential men in my life were
(12:37):
the DMLA advisors I grew upwith.
And I tell the story often aboutmeeting with, uh, a man named
Dad Skipton, who was the chapterchairman and he would have every
master counselor come into hisoffice and he had a plaque on
his wall that said, if you wantto leave footprints in the sands
of time, wear work boots orsomething to that effect.
And it always struck me and healways kind of inspired me that
(13:00):
all you have to do is decide todo it and then do it.
Don't worry about everythingelse.
So, as I became a Mason, Iwasn't active in Masonry to
begin with.
I became a Mason to become abetter DMLA advisor.
the involvement in DMLA has mademe appreciate the fraternity.
I love my Blue Lodge.
The Scottish Rite philosophy,uh, motivates me intellectually.
The idea of tolerance all thoselessons that the Scottish Rite
(13:22):
stands for, separation of churchand state, uh, that motivates me
intellectually.
Emotionally, it's always goingto be the Blue Lodge.
Shrine was fun.
We enjoyed it.
And so that was a social aspectand I still enjoy it a lot.
I believe in the mission, butthe Scottish Rite and
Freemasonry are the things thatreally motivate my heart and my
mind.
think that plays into a lot ofwhat I hear in my role in
(13:43):
chatting with prospectivemembers, with people who have
stepped up and said, Hey, I wantto learn more about Freemasonry.
And they are seeking a mentor,that real connection of
friendship and brotherhood,meaningful community engagement,
and The opportunity to give backin a meaningful way, and in this
somewhat crazy world that we arein these days divided where we
(14:06):
seem to celebrate divisivenessmore than we do with the
collaboration.
It's still again and again seemsas if we have a playbook of a
more happy and harmonioussociety if we can subdue our
passions and some of our ownimperfections.
I agree 100%.
Masonry.
When I try and sell someone onmasonry, it's not focusing on,
(14:28):
you know, charity or doing good.
That's a part of what we do, butmasonry is about developing
yourself so that the charity isthe natural result of what it
is.
And so I think the focus ofmasonry, at least it has been
for me, is self improvement.
And I have lots of areas I canimprove on, but masonry helps.
It helps remind me of where I amand when I get mad on the road,
(14:51):
I think about.
Am I being a good mason?
Am I being tolerant?
Am I subduing my passions?
a lot of masons I'm findingaren't aware of the original
definition of charity, datingback to the writing of our
ritual and some of our valueteachings, Charity really
stripped down is aboutbrotherhood.
(15:12):
It's about friendship.
It's not just, it's stillsynonymous with giving and
providing relief to those inneed, but there really is
something to that bond offriendship and being there for
one another.
the topic of mentoring continuesto be such a, popular topic and
something that Seems likeeveryone in the world regardless
of how old or young they mightbe everyone needs A mentor and
(15:36):
do you have a memory of someonewho was your mentor either
someone we may know or may notknow Yeah, certainly there are
people throughout my life atdifferent phases That have
inspired me and continue toinspire me the dad skipped and I
mentioned there were peoplealong the way in demille and
masonry that You their memorystill makes me want to do
(15:57):
better.
Anyone in particular?
There was a fellow in Iowa namedMiles Bites.
He was executive officer ofDMLA.
We worked many a leadershipconference where we teach kids
leadership skills, but Miles wasjust a Mason's Mason.
He was quiet, never had aposition of leadership other
than running DMLA.
and there's been a number ofother guys in that.
mold, Ronnie seal, the formergrand commander of the schedule.
(16:19):
Yes.
He was, he was that kind of guy.
He could motivate me withoutever saying anything.
He was a mentor, but he probablynever knew it.
He did it because he showed mehow to do it by the way he
acted.
Isn't that amazing.
Some of the most powerfulleaders, mentors, or influencers
are so often not set out to bebold or to make a big statement.
They just sort of Live theirlife.
(16:41):
They're, they're doing it.
Every day and how that can be socontagious for lack of a better
term.
Couldn't agree with you more.
I mean, Jim Cole's anotherexample of just somebody who you
think my schedule looks bad.
You should look at his schedule.
Oh, I can't even imagine.
But because of the grace and thehumor and the honesty in dealing
with tough decisions, I mean,every time we have a meeting.
(17:02):
And we have to address one ofthose very difficult things.
I'm just inspired.
I want to be like that.
100 percent.
And not long ago, we had a guesthere from the Grand Lodge in New
York, Oscar Allen, who we bothknow.
And he chatted a bit about someof his travels and collaborating
with the northern and southernjurisdiction of the Scottish
Rite and also with Prince Hall.
(17:23):
And there's some really excitingthings happening out there on
the collaboration front ofgetting together.
Truly, uh, the, the unity that'shappening, especially we see it
in the Scottish Rite is, isreally inspiring and motivating
right now.
Absolutely is.
And I think that's attributableto Grand Commander Cole.
Um, he's been a mover in that.
He invited me to be part of hisentourage.
(17:45):
I've never been in an entouragebefore to go to the Prince Hall
Northern Masonic JurisdictionScottish Rite session.
And it was a marvelousexperience, but in watching the
two Sovereign Grand Commandersof the Prince Hall and the
Grand, the Sovereign GrandCommander of the Northern
Jurisdiction, it is apparentthat all four of them are
interested in the unity and thestatement that it sends.
(18:07):
And we may not be able to changeevery Grand Lodge and every
Mason's opinion, but we can leadby example.
And so, if there's aorganizational mentorship, I
think the Scottish Rite istrying to fill that.
No doubt about it.
And that statement of unity thattook place in September of 2022,
was very powerful.
And that's something that Oscarand I talked about.
(18:28):
it's great to see that not onlythat occurred and that statement
was made, but it's more thanjust saying the words and
aligning ourselves with thesentiment.
The work is actually in motionand being done to go out there
and do the hard work that makesthe difference at the end of the
day.
And we all have so manyresources that we can share.
Grand Commander Cole created andgave to the Prince Hall Northern
(18:50):
Masonic Jurisdiction the KCCHprogram.
Oh.
As you know, the NorthernJurisdiction doesn't have it,
and neither of the Prince HallJurisdictions didn't have it.
So he bestowed the first KCCHred hat on Grand Commander
Blasemore.
Wow.
And it was kind of cool.
They voted and they want toimplement the program to honor
some of their younger guys.
(19:10):
That's great to hear.
and on that similar point aboutdoing the work that needs to be
done.
And that's something that all ofus can do as Blue Lodge.
Minnesota Freemasons and beyondto take The teachings and take
the tenets of our profession aswe say meaningful friendship
charity or relief Being thatupstanding that that person that
(19:31):
is embracing timeless corevalues and be the change out
there not just talk about it Notjust acknowledge that.
Yes.
These are the things that wealign ourselves with which is
the first step but there's a bigdifference between just So it's
all about, um, aligningourselves with the right or
wrong side of something, butthen actually going out and
doing the work, even if it's ina small little case by case
(19:52):
basis every day.
I agree.
We too often can cop out and notdo the right thing.
I can't tell other grand lodgeswhat to do, but I can show them
that we're doing it.
And we're doing it.
Well, We in Minnesota are solucky to have a climate that's
progressive when it comes tothose type of things.
(20:12):
And we can be proud that we wereone of the first states to have
full recognition of Prince HallMasonry.
So that's a part of our historythat we have walked the walk.
We did what we should have donemany years ago, but we were
among the first to do it.
And we still reap the benefitsof it today.
time and again, in theconversations I'm having with.
(20:32):
gentlemen that are seekingadditional information for
themselves to pursueFreemasonry, for their family,
their wife, and kids to beinvolved in some of the social
sides of things.
The world, is it safe to say,has never craved more a place
where we can be non sectarian,apolitical, leave the hot button
topics at the door and cometogether as friends and as
(20:55):
humans and have that person toperson connection.
That's certainly theaspirational goal.
We don't always succeed in it,but I gave a speech once at a
Grand Lodge I attended this lastweek.
And the topic was, you know,where else in the world can men
of different faiths andpolitical persuasions you know,
walk arm in arm for thebetterment of humanity.
(21:17):
That's kind of a broadaspirational goal, but I truly
believe it.
We've got to start with doingwhat's right, not just talking
about what's right.
Like I say, I'm very proud to bea Minnesota Mason because we
have done what's right.
We don't just talk about it.
It's really motivating andinspiring when we strip this
down and talk about it in thatcontext.
And you've had a lot of travelsover the years to some, I'm
(21:40):
sure, very fun or unique places,but speaking on the memory
front, what would you say is atop or even top three memories
of travels, of meetings, peoplethat you've met?
Oh, that's a tough question.
I had the opportunity afterserving DMLA on their national
board to make the first everpresentation for DMLA to the
(22:00):
Conference of Grandmasters ofNorth America.
Now it didn't hurt that themeeting was in Honolulu, but I
was able to put together apresentation.
I had to teach myself how to usePowerPoint because that was this
little unknown program thatnobody had used.
And we were able to present notthe Grandmasters.
I asked not to talk to them.
I wanted to talk to the secondand third in command.
to tell them what they shouldexpect from their DMLA executive
(22:23):
officers, and it was really atask list that they should hold
their executive officersaccountable for, but it ended up
being this marvelous discussionabout interaction between DMLA
and Grand Lodges.
It was back in 1998, and itstill is very memorable because
I thought it made an impact.
Who knows if it did, but Ireceived compliments for it and
(22:44):
I was very happy with thesubstance of what we provided.
We didn't just stand up and say,thank you for your support, come
to our meetings.
We need more members.
I tried to give them tools thatthey could actually use in
making DMLA and masonry betterin their estate.
the way that was teed up in away that could still have a
ripple effect of effectivenessefficiency for several
(23:04):
generations after that.
Well, yeah, you hope so.
I mean, on the other hand, uh, Iwas a newly elected grandmaster
of DLA.
My son, Andy, who's now 40 was13.
I think it just joined DLA.
And so I went out to theconclave of Southern California.
They're famous for having 500boys plus adults at their
banquet.
I took my son and I hooked himup with a little local Demilay
(23:26):
chapter there and said, he's notthe grandmaster's son.
He's just a kid.
And they adopted him and it wasgreat.
So we come time for the banquetand they have these long four
hour banquets, but it came timefor me to speak.
And I gave just what I thoughtwas a really great speech.
All the adults are saying, Hey,I had a boy, good job.
I asked my son on the airplanehome, what'd you think of my
speech?
And he goes, You spoke at thebanquet?
(23:48):
So it was very humbling.
Where was he at the time?
Or were they just distractedwith some kid stuff?
He was at the table with theother guys that he had met, his
new best friends and the girls,the sweethearts that were there.
And, you know, a four hourbanquet.
It's not going to hold theattention of young kids.
Well, yeah, that is true.
I didn't think about the an hourlong banquet is probably
challenging enough, especiallyfor young people.
(24:08):
But What else comes to mind onthat in terms of the back to
Scottish Rite for a moment asthe SGIG for the state of
Minnesota What else is on thehorizon in the future Delivering
our lessons through the ritual,through the degrees, in a
better, more classy way.
And all the Valleys are doingwell in that regard.
We try and work hand in handwith Blue Lodge Masonry.
(24:31):
I mean, I believe that by beingan active Scottish Rite member,
you're a better Blue LodgeMason.
And if there's ever a symbioticrelationship, that's it.
I'm encouraging my personalrepresentatives to work with the
lodges, work with the districtrepresentatives to try and be
complementary of what we do.
We're not in competition witheach other, we're to complement
each other.
(24:51):
All the valleys have the sameissues, trying to balance the
budget, trying to maintain thebuilding, trying to deliver
programs, trying to get peopleto come.
And so I'm continually trying tochallenge them to come up with
new ideas, to execute that sameprogram, the delivery of the,
the tenants of Freemasonry andScottish Rite.
It's great to hear.
And I recall hearing Jim Colesay at a conference in the last
(25:14):
couple of years that two thirdsof the, Blue Lodge Masons who do
join the Scottish Rite are thatmuch more active.
There's a true retention there.
There's been that push pullabout, well, don't join the
Appendant Body because, and I'mall for maybe somebody joining a
Blue Lodge and staying, reallydigesting Freemasonry, the
(25:34):
tenets of what we do and theexperience, really understanding
what it means to be a Mason.
Before rushing into the ScottishRite or one of the Appendant
bodies, but when the time isright, those that do it is a
great back and forth that thatsame brother is two thirds of
the time, more active in theirblue lodge than they would've
been otherwise.
Very complimentary.
(25:55):
Well, and those statistics arepretty clear that if you're a
member of an independent body,you're much like less likely to
be dropped for NPD.
My job as a Mason is to get themback in the Lodge and show them
that we have something to offer.
If they want to continue to paydues so they can march in a band
or drive a motorcycle, God blessthem.
But my challenge as a Lodgemember is to offer them
something.
(26:15):
Invite them back.
Make, make them sure they knowthey're welcome.
Yeah.
And what are we doing to.
show them as an outsider.
They don't know.
They just know they want to jointhe shrine or independent body,
but then what are we doing togive them that value in getting
involved, staying involved, andthen complimenting both, ideally
balancing that schedule ofinvolvement.
Not enough, but I thinkindividual lodges do good jobs
(26:39):
at making sure they're invitedback, making sure they're not
embarrassed.
And so, there's opportunities inevery lodge to find somebody who
didn't find what they werelooking for originally.
But, times change.
People change.
So we've got to continually takecare of our brothers.
Uh, bye.
inviting them, making surethey're welcome back.
Sometimes it's very crucial.
(26:59):
It's a great way to.
To reach out to any brothers.
You think of a brother randomly,check in with him, send a text,
send an email, make a phonecall.
How are you doing?
Start out with just knowingwhat's going on in each other's
lives and then really being ableto extend that welcome back to
lodge.
Hey, if your time and yourschedule allows, we'd really
like to see you again.
Just to have you back amongstour brothers again.
(27:21):
Something as simple as what DaveCamp does in the Minneapolis
Valley.
A birthday card to every memberon his birthday.
Those little things when they'recontacted, not only for getting
dues paid, but just, we rememberyou.
We want you.
What do you see as the future ofthe craft?
As we talked about today,there's a huge wish and desire.
(27:44):
generally speaking out insociety for what we stand for.
And although we talk about thisfrequently on this podcast, we
may not get back to the days of70, 000 members in our state
overnight, but in terms of thequality experience in What the
world wants?
And quite honestly needs outthere.
What does that look like in yourperspective?
(28:05):
Well, if I were the king of theworld and could, yes exactly.
Could you just wave the wand?
What would you do?
I would start at the Grand Lodgelevel and make sure that we're
delivering quality programs fromthe annual communication one day
to May is free.
Quality in term, I think weoffer quality programs now, but
quality programs that young menmiddle aged men want.
You know, breakout sessions atthe in your communication.
(28:27):
I'm going to be more than justgetting the districts together
to talk business.
They've got to be somewhatinspirational, motivational.
The charity's breakfast.
We need to make sure that we'representing things in a classy,
competent, professional mannerthat's mentoring for
organizations again.
If we do it right, maybe it'llinspire some of the lodges to do
it right.
I think that we're going to getsmaller before we get bigger.
(28:49):
And I think we need to quitworrying about it.
I think we have programs inplace to address that.
But we have the ritual and theteachings that are timeless in
my mind.
So I think we'll get smallerbefore we get bigger and
stronger.
I don't think we'll ever get tothe size we were after the wars.
I think it'll be a more stableenvironment in 15 years.
(29:11):
Most definitely.
And the things you shared aredefinitely in motion and being
worked on, but to your point,before we can think about
growing in a meaningful waywhere we retain our members,
it's providing that experienceand thinking about things
through a slightly differentapproach than maybe past
generations have.
And especially on that educationfront that I'm seeing.
(29:34):
First hand that lodges, whenthey talk about education,
certainly the Masonic educationis important.
It's a foundation of what we do,but also interjecting some non
Masonic education, havingcontent that is relevant and
meaningful to our membersoutside of the setting of the
lodge.
That could be so many differentthings too.
(29:54):
Absolutely.
The Valley of Duluth had apresentation on.
I don't know what you would callit.
How to tie your tie, how to tiea bowtie.
An etiquette type thing?
It was more than just etiquette,but it was like men's style.
I accuse you of being a fancyman sometimes, but it was, it
was Extremely informative andthe brothers kept the guy
answering questions for almostan hour.
(30:16):
Wow, and he was a haberdasher Sohe talked about different types
of clothing and what thestandard rules were and how they
were Changing and you knowmorning suits and the whole
history of it Well, I alwaysthought I knew something about
it But I learned a lot and thefact that the brothers who are
primarily older men with amixture of younger They It's a
great question.
kept an hour of questions.
(30:37):
Wow.
That speaks to what is needed.
I think education, I dread, uh,Leo presentations that are what
does Masonry mean to you?
I don't, I'm just not, it's notthat I'm uncomfortable with it,
but what you interpret this tobe is okay, maybe interesting.
I'd rather hear a mixture ofhard topics like Masonic
(30:57):
Presidents or, the Morgan affairor whatever.
I'm interested in non Masoniceducation as well.
I don't think we always have tohave a Leo presentation in the
middle of a lot of meeting.
I like them when they're atdinner.
I like them at dinner, but toyour point, I like to hear
something that I, I wouldn't getat home.
I wouldn't, I wouldn'tnecessarily seek that out or
(31:18):
have that book on the shelf or,or on the iPad that I could just
pull that up, like somethingthat's maybe a A little more
unique and out of the box a bit.
And we talked about the, theclothing, the sartorial thing,
and that was really a reminder.
We don't teach that anymore aswe, you and I learned it from
dads and grandparents, but it's,it's something that we've seen
(31:39):
that in also the civilityproject that we've partnered
with Masonic Charities on thathas really been impactful for
young people and their parents.
It's talking about the need foryoung people to be embracing
core values that why it'simportant to be that change,
especially at that age.
And I'm really excited about thecivility project.
(32:00):
Also we've called the civilityschool in which we're going out
into communities, helping youngpeople navigate this crazy world
we live in with digital sodifferent than from an.
Um, and it's not just, you know,guys like you and I were
younger, but it's also bettershowcasing what Freemasonry is.
And that's, that's so huge.
(32:21):
Tom McCarthy had an idea once Icould never execute.
And he had an idea of lodgesholding a breakfast once a
month, calling it men ofcharacter or an adult male.
And a teenager would come forbreakfast and some sort of a
motivational speech on what itmeans to be a man.
And I always loved the idea.
I could never pull it off, but Istill think it's a good idea.
(32:43):
I know of a handful of lodgesout there doing that monthly
breakfast and get together.
And it's so huge on thebrotherhood side of things,
knowing what's going on in eachother's lives.
And those are the times overcoffee, breakfast, having a
beverage together where wereally get to, strip away all of
the stress and the layers ofwork and family and all of our
(33:03):
other obligations and just trulybeing there for one another as
authentic friends and brothers.
Before we wrap up today, I justwant to say thank you for all of
the time that you have put intoall of the different layers of
the Masonic family.
The Blue Lodge being serving asGrand Master, Appendant Body
Involvement, you really are aninspiration to our Blue Lodge
(33:24):
Masons to carve out a littlemore time to really focus on the
foundation of what it is to be aMason and to go out in the world
and be that difference.
Well, I appreciate your words,but I feel self conscious
because it's been a labor oflove.
I'm passionate about masonry.
I love it.
I may not be the most emotionalguy, but I'm a dedicated guy.
(33:45):
I haven't done anything I didn'twant to do.
I've enjoyed every minute of it.
Well, and that to me is a trueservant leader.
You're not in it for anythingother than the love of what we
stand for and what we set out todo.
That's it.
I, I detest titles.
I would prefer nobody call meMost Worshipful or SGIG and just
call me Tony.
And I just enjoy theparticipation.
(34:05):
While the honors are required attimes, but at the end of the
day, we're all brothers.
Exactly.
Brother to brother and friend tofriend and then please say, Hi
to Bev for us and your family.
And it's just been, I reallyappreciate you carving out time
to visit the studio today andget to know you more, a little
more about your, your backgroundand how the journey of life
(34:25):
arrived here today.
Well, I appreciate you havingme.
Tony Kral.
Thank you so much.
This has been another episode ofMinnesota Masonic Histories and
Mysteries.
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