May 30, 2025 • 40 mins
What is the aim of our Labors? At times we are fixated on the efficient performance of what we’re already doing, and completely uninterested in what we’re missing out on.
This week Reed welcomes fellow Regional Directors Markus Mueller and Ethan Seaberg to the studio. They discuss a new model of cooperative labor, purposeful organization, and the new paradigm of Masonry in Minnesota.
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(00:00):
Why do we assume that changewill be worse?
Is it a comfort thing?
Familiarity.
Muscle memory.
it's because we're gonna die,Reid.
(00:22):
Um, mortality is the fear.
You know, if I can gra why do Iwant, my church, my lodge, my
town, my life to never change?
Because I know that in the endI'm gonna.
If I can hold onto this onething, this one immovable
object.
(00:43):
I'll feel my mortality lesskeenly.
I'm convinced.
I'm absolutely convinced.
Interesting.
I would say it's, uh,convenience and muscle memory.
We don't know that change canmake things better because we
have seen, or we think we haveseen and we remember mostly.
(01:07):
Change that has made thingsworse.
So we become fearful of changeand do not wanna go that route.
If in any aspect of our life wewitnessed a decision.
Maybe it was bold, maybe it wassubtle, but it wasn't a home
run.
(01:28):
Then reluctance sets in.
Sometimes it feels like in inlife we're fixated on efficient
performance of what we arealready doing, and yet
completely uninterested in whatwe're missing out on.
(01:51):
We started this on a ratherheavy note, haven't we?
I actually, efficiency made methink of something, a large
experience I had.
Years ago ago, um, a dear friendof mine and I were, were putting
a bouncy house away after thisotherwise forgettable event, and
(02:12):
we were trying to fold thisthing.
It was the same size as my mytruck.
We tried to lift it into theback.
It was entirely too big.
It was the most godforsakenthing.
And I think I let out a streamof expletives, and I know I did.
And it included the wordmiserable.
And at the end of it, this dearbrother of mine turned to me and
(02:34):
said, Ethan, we're notmiserable.
We're making memories.
And I've carried that, uh,because it's an excellent way to
look at inefficiency.
It's, we're together and we'rehere, and, and we're building
authentic friendship, and it'snot miserable.
We're making memories.
(02:57):
It's interesting when you saywe're making memories because
that involves time that needs tobe spent.
Right?
And when you mention the wordefficiency, and then again
related to the question, why dowe always expect change to make
things worse?
Maybe we do not.
Maybe we do no longer givethings enough time.
(03:19):
We expect it to become worse.
Because we live in a world thatwants to have immediate and very
fast returns.
Short term this, it's called,right?
So we don't really allowourselves or those around us to
live through change.
And maybe there is a dipsomewhere in the experience, but
at the end we come out on a highnote and it becomes better.
(03:42):
We do not, we are not patientenough to.
To actually give it enough timeto see the change.
That is really good.
It's no surprise that we'rewired this way.
Everything can happen with thepush of a button, Amazon,
GrubHub.
Mm-hmm.
(04:02):
I don't have to leave the housefor anything, and yet there are
aspects of our lives that stillrequire patients long-term
perspective.
Things that are more and morechallenging in this world of
convenience and immediategratification that we live in.
By the way, we're joined todayby Marcus Mueller, regional
(04:26):
director, who is based out ofDuluth in the north, and Ethan
Seaberg, regional director inSouthern Minnesota based out of
Red Wing.
Welcome brothers.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
So here we are in new positions.
Regional director working forboth Grand Lodge of Minnesota
(04:47):
and Minnesota Masonic Charities.
Ethan, how would you bestexplain, breaking that down as
to what we've set out to do inthese roles?
Well, it's, it's an interestingmodel and one that I'm, uh, glad
to be a part of is we talkedabout it.
It's, it's broken upintentionally into thirds.
(05:07):
first third is intended to be anoutreach of the.
Grand Lodge office, a directoutreach to lodges in the state
to try to increase, theefficiency and the support that
we can give those lodges.
The second third is memberdevelopment.
Something Reid you've beeninvolved in for a number of
years now to bring to lodgesideas and action to bring
members into the fraternity.
(05:28):
And the third, something, Marcusis intimately familiar with fund
development.
For Masonic Charities, uh,certainly, uh, but the
fraternity then of course as awhole.
So it's, it's an interestingmodel and, uh, one I think
initially is, uh, is working onpretty well.
And this structure is based uponother jurisdictions doing
(05:48):
similar, a similar arrangementwhere lodge operations,
membership experience and funddevelopment with, in our case of
Minnesota Masonic charities.
Seeing both Grand Lodge andcharities come closer together
in our, in our United efforts.
I don't know if it is by chanceor if it is by design that the
(06:11):
three of us, and you'reintroduced to both Ethan and me,
thank you Reid, but you are theregional director for Central
Minnesota, the third person inthis, uh, triangle, so to say.
Maybe it is by design that weare we, we come with three
different backgrounds.
(06:31):
You know, a third of our time isspent on these three areas.
Membership, membershipdevelopment, large support, and
fund development.
But our areas of expertise arein exactly these three areas.
We have a, an expert in largesupports in our past grant
(06:55):
master, most worshipful brotherEthan.
We have a specialist inmembership in you Reed.
And, um, I have spent a fewyears in fund development and
here we are working together andlearning from one another as we
go.
The question was posed to merecently by a brother, a rather
(07:18):
innocent question of basically,so tell me about all the answers
that you have to fix all ofthese areas of opportunity that
we have.
And I, told him outright.
I, I don't, and none of us, Iwould say claim to have the
answers, but are working closelywith lodges, with our Grand
Lodge officers, with MasonicCharities on.
(07:43):
Enhancing and developing aquality experience across the
board at Lodges within ourentire state.
You know, I wanna be cognizant,you know, Marcus, as you
mentioned, um, you know, areasof expertise are what they are.
And in my particular case, youknow, I, this entire
(08:03):
organization is made up of, ofvolunteers and I wanna be, um.
You know, cognizant of the factthat I'm, you know, we're,
we're, we're now professionalsin what we were volunteers in
for decades.
and so I want that volunteerexperience to be as, uh, as
rewarding and enriching, andI'll use the word easy as
(08:24):
possible, so.
a, if a lodge is being hung upon some sort of governance
issue, uh, and they're unable tomove to a, to an event or to a,
to a new place they'd like togo, or whatever the case might
be, if we can ease that lift,and make the volunteer
experience better, the memberexperience better and the lodge
experience better, we've, we'vesucceeded.
(08:48):
A challenge, uh, in these newroles as there is with most new
jobs, most new workenvironments.
And that is the, what you justmentioned, Ethan, that we are
doing something professionallythat we were doing as volunteers
(09:11):
for, in my case, for a fewyears, in your cases for
decades.
But there's also a, a risk ofconflating these two
experiences.
There is a masonry that I'm apart of, that I'm a volunteer
in.
I'm a member of a large I liveritual.
(09:33):
I live my large experience, andI do that as brother Marcus.
And then I have an experiencethat goes beyond that where I
try to help brothers and otherlodges.
Whether it be membership, it'dbe large support.
It'd be fundraising towardscertain causes within our
Masonic charities, and I do thatas a professional.
(09:56):
While that is a Masonicexperience, in a way it has and
cannot have anything to do withthe other Masonic experience I
have because it could bedraining.
And that is something that Ipersonally, and I don't know how
you have experienced that overthe past weeks, months.
where we have been in theseroles, um, how you have
(10:17):
experienced that because, um,there are expectations to us and
we have expectations to thefraternity where we need to set
boundaries for our, um, for onicexperiences.
And I really and deeplyappreciate the brothers who have
reached out and said, if youfeel there are conflicts of
(10:38):
interest, be straightforwardabout those and we will also
help you through these, uh,experiences.
That has allowed me to continueto have a Masonic experience
That is just my life's journeyin Masonry.
Your comments, Marcus, remind meof, uh, something I've spent a,
(11:00):
a good chunk of my adult lifein, uh, church governance.
And one of the early, uh, bitsof, uh, recommendations, and was
made to me was to never hireanyone, uh, from the
congregation.
And it's because on, on, in mycase, on Sunday morning, uh, the
secretary wants to come and be aparishioner.
(11:22):
Has no interest in being thesecretary because it's Sunday.
But how do people not talkabout, you know, the, the, uh,
food drive coming up this weekor the, uh, confirmation
documents that I didn't get.
And so their experience changesdramatically, uh, as a result of
being, you know, part of thepaid staff.
So I, I couldn't help but thinkof that in, you know,
considering taking this positionis how do you, how do you
(11:45):
maintain that separation, uh, sothat your experience can be.
The kind that you signed up for.
It's the reason we, we joinedthe fraternity in the first
place and it's, uh, it's adance.
There's definitely anopportunity for all of us to be
doing this full time now, tofind that balance, ironically
(12:05):
enough that we're thinkingequilibrium and that 24 inch
gauge.
Initially when these roleslaunched, there was a bit of a
misperception.
Perhaps it was amiscommunication on where these
roles fit into the greaterscheme of things.
We are not Grand Lodge officers.
(12:26):
We are office staff.
The district reps do not reportto us, nor to the area deputies.
If anything, I would think thatwe.
We work for them.
Exactly.
Our roles are to ideallyminimize or help, especially
those busy district reps andarea deputies and, and to help
(12:49):
them with resources and answersto their questions and to do
everything we can to lightentheir burden.
I think that's, uh, critical.
Um, I hope that that's, uh, aswe stand up to positions and
they become more, more mature,that that's what, uh, the ADSD
and DRS will see.
Um, it is delightful every time,uh, one of them calls to ask,
(13:12):
uh, a question and you can, um.
Do the work and bring the value,uh, and hopefully cut down on
the time a volunteer has to thothose, not only are they
volunteering in their lodges,they're volunteering in those
positions too.
And so the more help we canbring, uh, the better.
And, and I think we could definesuccess as, as, um, those guys
(13:33):
coming to us asking for that,that kind of assistance.
What you just, uh, said, Ethanreminds me of the initial
question that.
Reed asked the assumption thatchange might not, will not
produce something that is abetter outcome.
It's a gut reaction that wehave, and we are introducing
(13:54):
something that is not we as inthe three of us, but the Masonic
fraternity in Minnesota hasintroduced something that is
unknown to the fraternal life inour state, and we have.
Roles that have been lived fordecades, but the people who have
(14:15):
filled these roles, and inparticular, their lives have
changed.
I mentioned earlier, we livemuch faster paced lives today,
and we expect faster outcomes,but that puts all of us under a
much higher pressure in ourdaily lives to volunteer roles
as they have been 5, 10, 15, 20years ago.
(14:36):
Those brothers that take onvolunteer work do not have as
much time, not just perceived,not as much time, but they don't
have that much time.
They have demands from theirfamilies.
They have demands in their ownwork life, Masonic life.
So it's, it's good to see howour brothers in volunteer roles
(14:57):
have embraced that extra supportthat we are able to provide for
them.
They are able to give the grandlarge office a call.
Or send an email or send a textmessage, Hey, I need help with
this question.
I am new to this role assecretary, or in whatever
function it may be in the lodge.
And we are able to respondimmediately, respectful of their
(15:18):
time as well because their timeis precious and, uh, limited
that they can spend on theirvolunteer roles.
And here we are able toaccommodate that.
That's a change that we.
For all of us demand adaptionbefore it can can become
appreciation.
(15:40):
When the corporate Board ofGrand Lodge and the Charities
Board started this discussion.
It was, how can we better serveour members because it's, it's
been a long time coming toideally not overwork and burn
out all of our volunteers.
You know, one of the things, uh,one of the tangible examples I
(16:02):
can give of exactly what you'retalking about, Reid, and I'm
gonna get some of the numbers,uh, wrong, but when I first
started as a, a dr.
Years ago, it was a two pagesheet of my duties.
I think the most recent Dr.
Guide is six seven pages orsomething like that.
And the idea was to try tochisel away for the reasons Reid
(16:24):
you just mentioned at that listof responsibilities so that the
DRS can focus on their historicand incredibly important role.
And, uh, you know, people likeus can, can help with the, uh,
the administrative, uh, liftingThe question gets asked
frequently.
We could start with membership.
(16:45):
Are we growing?
Have we solved the membershipconundrum yet?
And part of what we are doing inour role in working with the
lodges on that lodge operationsfront is to ensure that we are
providing our members new andold and existing, a quality
experience returning to thingslike true and authentic.
(17:12):
Quality, friendship andbrotherhood.
A question that we've hadamongst us in many discussions
in, in talking to friends andnon masons, what is our purpose
as an organization?
What is the point of what we aredoing as Freemasons?
(17:33):
Well, the, the two answers that,that I've heard most often are,
uh, both internal and, and oneinternal, one external.
to have a, a fraternalexperience, uh, one that
involves, uh, community, theauthentic friendships you
mentioned and others that has atie, a history.
Um, and, and the long historyof, of Freemasonry and those,
(17:54):
those greats who have comebefore us, that's certainly one
aspect.
But the second one is internal.
You know, we could create anenvironment where that kind of
experience could happen, thatexternal experience.
But if I go to something anddon't feel an internal
connection with the men in thelodge, uh, start developing
friendships with them,meaningful ones, um, without
(18:15):
that internal component, I'm notgonna come back.
So.
Freemasonry.
It is both externally and, andinternally, um, important, uh,
to me and, and to the people whoare members that I know.
And I think that's the point ofit.
It is a something, it is asomething to us and we wanna
(18:36):
create the best something, uh,we can hear.
I'm going to quote.
Has been quoted quite often andmaybe is a misunderstood Mason
in many ways.
Manly P Hall.
And he wrote something in one ofthe earliest books that I ever
(18:59):
wrote that were written by him,and he said that the Masonic
journey, and I have toparaphrase because I can't get
it right, but the Masonicjourney is one of spiritual
unfoldment.
Whether or not we want to addthe dimension of spirituality
into this.
Let's leave that aside, but theword unfoldment, I actually had
(19:21):
to look it up.
English is not my firstlanguage, right?
Is that, does it even exist?
That word unfoldment?
Why would you not say unfolding,et cetera, et cetera.
But it, it shows the internaldimension of what you just
mentioned, Ethan, that there'ssomething that we experience in
the largest.
That goes back as an answer toyour question earlier, what are
(19:43):
we doing as masons?
We are providing an environmentfertile ground that individuals
who join the largest and becomemembers of our fraternity become
our brothers, become masons.
That they can unfold.
That the, that their journeybecomes one of unfoldment and
maybe, hopefully.
(20:04):
I am personally convinced thatthat is one of the reasons that
we do this spiritual unfoldmentin addition to other spiritual
unfoldment that you mightexperience in your life.
And from that comes all theexternal activities that we as
Masons are mostly known for inthe community.
What it's driven by us changingourselves, being willing to
(20:26):
change ourselves to becomeselfless.
To the extent possible in ourlifetime, and that drives the
external perception of who weare as Masons.
We've heard so many abstractphrases over the years.
Well, what do you do as freemasons?
(20:47):
Well, we make good men better.
Mm-hmm.
Actually, we don't.
We don't make anybody anything,but we do provide, For lack of a
better term, a treasure map onhow to become a better or
improved version of ourselves.
But that's on each of us.
(21:09):
Some of the most successfullodges I've visited in our state
or even around the country.
Have the most simple anduncomplicated approach.
They plan way ahead.
They over-communicate in a, in agood way and take a very
balanced approach to thatauthentic friendship and
(21:30):
brotherhood.
The personal development, wejust alluded to, the education
component, learning somethingnew.
How can I become that betterversion of myself in the
building of community?
That can be both internally andin a surrounding neighborhood is
really big right now, and thatis a huge ask of our new
(21:51):
members.
If a lodge doesn't have much oranything of community
engagement, that's a huge miss,and that's another part of our
mission to help reconnect ourlodges.
Not only with Minnesota Masoniccharities and the endeavors
going on there, but in each ofour neighborhoods, when, when
(22:13):
and where we can.
I've gotta say one of the thingsthat surprised me most since I
started in this, this role, uh,are the prospects that come from
be a freemason.org.
Those, those men who are, youknow, voluntarily raising their
hand and saying, I'm interestedin this fraternity.
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I see time and time again aresaying I want to give back to my
community.
Now, we are not going to providethat on the path we're talking
about here.
You know, the internal, but ifwe're not in a community, those
guys aren't going to identify usas an organization through which
they can give back to thatcommunity.
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So to be outside that lodge is acritical part of, of what we're
trying to engender here.
Using the resources of Masoniccharities and decades of
experience, we wanna try to showlodges how, just how critically
important it's to get out thatdoor so that you can identify
the lodge as a place that peoplewant to come into.
(23:16):
And those layers are tetheredtogether.
Our membership will grow.
When we have in fact, plantedthe seeds and are cultivating
authentic friendships,brotherhood within the lodge,
when it's a place to go where weare so happy to see one another,
and we are engaging in things oftaking an interest in what's
(23:39):
going on in each other's livesand how we are engaging our
community and that personaldevelopment.
When that question comes, well,we just need more members.
Obviously we want to grow, butwe wanna do so in a meaningful
way and that will take time aswell that this foundation we're
a little bit of a reset as weare distilling down the lodge
(24:03):
experience to encompass thesethings in a meaningful, in a
tangible way.
This expression, membershipgrowth.
It can also be understood in twoways, right?
We often understand itqualitatively that the number of
members in the membership grows,but I have come to appreciate a
(24:29):
different perspective of it.
When you say membership growth,that the individual member grows
and that we actually celebratethat.
One of the things that I havefound.
Fascinating and exciting andreally satisfying.
In my short, um, admittedlyMasonic journey so far is to see
(24:55):
brothers that were raisedtogether with me, or shortly
before or shortly after haveassumed roles in the large, have
grown into roles in the largeand as members have grown and.
My personal observation is thatwe need to learn and we should
(25:20):
celebrate that membership growthmore than we do, that we have
individual members, that we asan organization are able to
shoulder what masonry was 10,15, 20, 40 years ago, where we
were 10,000 more or 20,000additional masons in Minnesota.
We are a fraternity now that isjust under eight, 8,000 master
(25:43):
masons in the state, and we havemembers that grow that actually
are able to shoulder work in thelargest responsibilities, and
they show that masonry actuallyis at work.
And once we have that part evenbetter under control, Then the
(26:04):
quantitative growth is justaround the corner.
Marcus, you mentioned a fewmoments ago that English is not
your first language, should haveled off with this earlier.
Tell us where you were born andyour journey in arriving in the
US and in ultimately inMinnesota.
(26:26):
Maybe I should start with this.
I live in Duluth, Minnesota, andI call Duluth, Minnesota home.
I've lived there for 16 yearsnow, just shy of 16 years, and
that is the longest I've everlived in once in one spot or in
the same spot.
I was born and raised inGermany, s in Germany, in the
rural district.
(26:46):
I left Germany when I was, uh,20 years old and moved to
Denmark.
Spent 25 years of my life inDenmark and then moved to, to
the us And with a little bit ofquick math, you can find out
that I am, uh, not pushing 60yet, but 59.
What was the catalyst for you topursue becoming a Freemason?
(27:12):
There are actually two, uh, tworeasons.
My father's best friend was aMason.
I stood next to him in churchand I saw him pray in church in
the peculiar manner that we asMasons pray.
And I was the little naughtyboy, and I looked at him during
prayer and confronted him in acouple times and said.
(27:37):
Uncle Heinz, why do you haveyour hands in such an odd
manner?
And he said to me, Marcus, whenyou are a little older, I will
tell you about that.
Unfortunately, he passed, um, afew years later.
He passed when I was 13 yearsold.
I was way too young to ever beintroduced to Masonry and my
father was not amazing.
(27:59):
my second dad.
I call my father-in-law, my, mysecond dad because he introduced
me to things that a father wouldintroduce, young men to.
He taught me hunting, forexample, so that's why I call
him dad as well.
My father-in-law is a mason andhas been since 1979 in Duluth,
and he introduced me to theScottish Rite, brought me to
(28:22):
events there, and it took me.
The better part of three and ahalf years before I eventually
talked to Blue Lodge Masons thatwere at the Scottish Rite event
and, uh, petitioned.
So I was a, a prospect for along time.
And your home lodge is Glen Avonin Duluth.
(28:43):
That's correct, yes.
And I recently chose.
To join another lodge, HectorLodge, 1 58 in, uh, in St.
Paul because, uh, I wanted toshare my Masonic experience with
a couple of my colleagues, EthanSeaberg.
You've been at this microphoneprior, but tell us a bit more
(29:06):
about, is Red Wing, has it beenRed Wing the whole time in life?
Marcus's story is much moreinteresting.
I was.
Born in Red Wing, raised in RedWing, and I lived four doors
down and across the street frommy parents in Red Wing.
So yes, Marcus's story is muchmore interesting than mine.
Um, but yes, uh, lived there myentire life.
My entire life and found my wayto follow your next question
(29:28):
about the fraternity.
I am here as a result of a 1950sera cover of Life Magazine.
A dear friend of mine was amember, uh, of the lodging Can
of falls.
He was the, uh, solid wasteofficial in Goodyear County.
And, uh, as he saw through therecycling stream, uh, that
classic copy of Life Magazine, Ithink every Freemason is
familiar with the Grand Masterson the steps of the capitol.
(29:52):
He brought that back to hisoffice, was sitting on his desk
when I saw it one day, and Isaid, who are those people?
and he's the one that introducedme to the fraternity.
So I've got Life magazine to, tothank for this.
That particular back issue ofLife Magazine is still very
popular.
It's expensive on eBay.
It is such an interestingchronicle of Freemasonry of
(30:15):
Scottish and York rights ofother concordant bodies.
It was so well done.
Yeah, I, I remember opening it,you know, at the time and being
introduced to the kinds ofthings you're describing.
And then once you join thoseorganizations and having, you
know, been talked about, um, youknow, tiling lodges and making
certain that we keep.
Those things had happened insidelodges to ourselves.
(30:36):
I went back to that issue of themagazine and it seemed like
somebody set up a camera in themiddle of a lodge meeting.
I mean, they would, you'reright.
Everything was, was there in the19, the 1950s.
Part of what we strive to do onthis podcast is get to know our
guests better, and while on onehand you are both well known,
you're both traveled and allover the state, but let's throw
(30:59):
the random question at you.
See where you go with this,Marcus.
What holiday does not exist, butshould now, coming from Europe,
I have to imagine there'sholidays for everything.
There's way more holidays inEurope than we have here, so I
(31:21):
almost would feel bad tointroduce the thought of a
holiday, just to mention Easter.
It's five days off in Denmark.
Really?
Yeah.
And here we get a meager Sundayout of it, right?
Five days.
What do you do for five days?
Is it the full Monday?
Thursday is a day off Long.
Friday is a day off.
Saturday is a day where you cango shopping after two days of
(31:43):
shops that have been closed.
And uh, Easter Sunday andEastern Monday are also
holidays.
Would that be your vote toextend Easter to the five day
option?
It gives you a very nice startof the late spring, early summer
season, and time for reflectionand time for, you know, being,
(32:05):
being off, being, being there,being present with your family.
I, you know, when we, when welook at it from that
perspective, I think.
I wouldn't really advocate forone particular holiday, but it
seems to me hate me if you want,as a European to say that, that
(32:27):
the holidays that we have herein the US are rushed.
It would be nice to have aholiday that is extended.
It doesn't have to be five days,but shoulder days left and
right.
That would be really nice to getinto the spirit of whatever
holiday we are celebrating.
So rushed.
The stores are open, the mallsare open.
(32:48):
The sale decompressing would bemuch appreciated.
Ethan, you can wipe a minorannoyance or problem off the
face of the earth.
What do you choose?
Left lane sitters.
The people who drive 30 miles anhour in the left lane on a four
lane road.
The hammer lane violator.
(33:09):
Holy mackerel.
Yes, that and, and I mean, whatI should have said was, you
know, child hunger, the sscourge of cancer and all the
rest.
But that was, you said minorannoyance, so that was it.
Yeah.
And how would you go about that?
What, how would we imprisonthem?
Read?
Just lock them up.
But what about I have my drivesafe and save thing in my car.
(33:31):
I used to be.
80 miles an hour everywhere.
But now I'm older and boring andI have, I literally have the
drive and sometimes I get stuckin the hammer lane and I, is it
a Midwestern thing?
I get nervous.
I'm looking in the mirrorthinking, oh my God, I gotta get
over.
This guy's going to be verydispleased with me.
It could be.
I'll come pick you up if youneed any doubt all, that's no
(33:52):
problem.
Alright Marcus, what's somethingmore people should know about
history?
Why?
History can teach us lessons.
we usually say about history.
If you know history then, or ifyou do not know history, then
you are bound to repeat it.
(34:13):
That's not the reason I mentionit, The reason I advocate for
history is it gives us so muchmore context for what we know
and should know about each othersociety, the way we live our
lives, understand each other,understand the countries that we
live in, the cultural spherethat we exist in.
(34:34):
Yeah.
History.
We should know more abouthistory.
Ethan, what physical trait doessociety consider attractive but
does not appeal to you?
Are you nuts?
Uh, let me see.
It's the card I pulled out ofthe deck.
(34:54):
I'm sure it is.
Physical trait.
does not appeal to you.
It doesn't appeal to you.
Well full, uh, men with fullheads of hair, obviously.
I mean, that's, that's what,what other answer can I give?
Well, this has just gotten veryawkward.
(35:16):
I'm sitting here with twofollicly challenged friends and
brothers who are both Now you'reboth looking at me with that.
Look, you got great hair.
Reed, the acronym FC stands forfootball club in Europe and not
for follicly challenged.
Oh, I want to to say that.
Wow.
That was the first, uh, randomquestion that turned a little,
(35:36):
uh, uncomfortable for a moment.
Good successful podcast then.
I appreciate both of you beingin studio with me today and the
work that we are doing together.
There's a lot going on behindthe scenes that isn't
necessarily broadcast, that wehave a lot of very exciting
endeavors in the works.
(35:58):
Uh, the gala we have coming upfor charities in September and
looking ahead to 2026, we aregoing to be.
Planning and hosting what willbe called the M series or
Masonic series Galas and onewill be in Minneapolis, in the
Minneapolis St.
Paul area in central, uh,Marcus.
You have the clinic gala comingup in August of this summer,
(36:21):
which more watch for details onthat.
And Ethan will be also hostingan M Series gala early in 2026.
We, we could go on and on with abusy calendar.
This is a great opportunity forus to encourage our listeners to
check the Facebook page, checkthe Instagram Grand Lodge.
Please read all of thecorrespondence coming through
(36:43):
Grandview with the e Mason, theAshler.
Lot of events.
There's so many.
Isn't that ironic?
We have so many avenues tocommunicate electronically, and
yet sometimes they just getmissed.
I'm so grateful you mentionedthat because there's a public
service announcement that Iwould love to make and it has
everything to do with what youjust said about resources.
(37:03):
Time and time again, we areasked righteous questions, uh,
about lodge administration andoperations membership fund
development, and it's in grandview, uh, and it's a wonderful
resource and.
we would be incrediblysuccessful if the first impulse
that our members had was tocheck the resources, uh, in
(37:25):
Grand View, because thoseanswers, 90% of the answers, uh,
the questions that were beingasked are living right there.
And if any member has achallenge finding set
information in Grandview,contact any one of us and we'll
walk you through it.
Absolutely.
As we move toward the end of oursession today, I think, um, I
(37:47):
don't wanna speak for all of us,but I think I can, uh, when I
thank the craft, uh, thank thecraft, thank, thank the Grand
Lodge, thank the board corporateBoard, and the board of
Minnesota Mason Sonic Charitiesfor this opportunity.
I never thought that there wouldbecome a day when I would be
doing this, and it is anabsolute privilege and delight,
a delight to work with men likeyou and a delight to be a part
(38:07):
of this organization.
So, a thank you is, iscompletely appropriate.
I would say ditto to that.
We have the greatest job in theworld.
We get to work on behalf of thecraft and to work around our
great state.
Yes, and we get to do thingsthat are, that are challenging,
but we are in an environmentwhere we can also live masonry,
(38:29):
right?
There are things I'm learningthings and I appreciate the fact
that the craft offers theopportunity to learn that and
actually help, and that we as a,the craft in Minnesota.
Actually are not too proud tolearn from other jurisdictions
where they successfully havedeployed this model of
(38:50):
full-time, large support toshore up a fraternity that is
challenged in numbers, but tomake it strong so that it can
grow not just individually, butalso in numbers.
Again, And if any of ourbrothers have ideas,
perspective, feedback, and wantto be part of solutions, let's
(39:17):
have those conversations.
Later this year, we will rollout our regional lodge support
teams.
We have some big things in theworks as far as lodge
operations.
On the support side, we want tohear from you.
None of us claims to have all ofthe answers.
We want to work together and getthat feedback, but put things in
(39:37):
action.
We as Masons, maybe as society,we're so good at talking about
things.
We talk about it a lot.
We wanna execute with purpose onpurpose.
Ensure we have a bright future,not just a short term
satisfaction of minor victories,but an infinite perspective and
how we can ensure the craft ishealthy for years and years,
(40:01):
generations to come.
Ethan Seaberg, Marcus Mueller.
Thank you both for being heretoday.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, Reid.
This has been another episode ofMinnesota Masonic Histories and
Mysteries.
Why do we assume that changewill be worse?
Is it a comfort thing?
Familiarity.
Muscle memory.
it's because we're gonna die,Reid.
(00:22):
Um, mortality is the fear.
You know, if I can gra why do Iwant, my church, my lodge, my
town, my life to never change?
Because I know that in the endI'm gonna.
If I can hold onto this onething, this one immovable
object.
(00:43):
I'll feel my mortality lesskeenly.
I'm convinced.
I'm absolutely convinced.
Interesting.
I would say it's, uh,convenience and muscle memory.
We don't know that change canmake things better because we
have seen, or we think we haveseen and we remember mostly.
(01:07):
Change that has made thingsworse.
So we become fearful of changeand do not wanna go that route.
If in any aspect of our life wewitnessed a decision.
Maybe it was bold, maybe it wassubtle, but it wasn't a home
run.
(01:28):
Then reluctance sets in.
Sometimes it feels like in inlife we're fixated on efficient
performance of what we arealready doing, and yet
completely uninterested in whatwe're missing out on.
(01:51):
We started this on a ratherheavy note, haven't we?
I actually, efficiency made methink of something, a large
experience I had.
Years ago ago, um, a dear friendof mine and I were, were putting
a bouncy house away after thisotherwise forgettable event, and
(02:12):
we were trying to fold thisthing.
It was the same size as my mytruck.
We tried to lift it into theback.
It was entirely too big.
It was the most godforsakenthing.
And I think I let out a streamof expletives, and I know I did.
And it included the wordmiserable.
And at the end of it, this dearbrother of mine turned to me and
(02:34):
said, Ethan, we're notmiserable.
We're making memories.
And I've carried that, uh,because it's an excellent way to
look at inefficiency.
It's, we're together and we'rehere, and, and we're building
authentic friendship, and it'snot miserable.
We're making memories.
(02:57):
It's interesting when you saywe're making memories because
that involves time that needs tobe spent.
Right?
And when you mention the wordefficiency, and then again
related to the question, why dowe always expect change to make
things worse?
Maybe we do not.
Maybe we do no longer givethings enough time.
(03:19):
We expect it to become worse.
Because we live in a world thatwants to have immediate and very
fast returns.
Short term this, it's called,right?
So we don't really allowourselves or those around us to
live through change.
And maybe there is a dipsomewhere in the experience, but
at the end we come out on a highnote and it becomes better.
(03:42):
We do not, we are not patientenough to.
To actually give it enough timeto see the change.
That is really good.
It's no surprise that we'rewired this way.
Everything can happen with thepush of a button, Amazon,
GrubHub.
Mm-hmm.
(04:02):
I don't have to leave the housefor anything, and yet there are
aspects of our lives that stillrequire patients long-term
perspective.
Things that are more and morechallenging in this world of
convenience and immediategratification that we live in.
By the way, we're joined todayby Marcus Mueller, regional
(04:26):
director, who is based out ofDuluth in the north, and Ethan
Seaberg, regional director inSouthern Minnesota based out of
Red Wing.
Welcome brothers.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
So here we are in new positions.
Regional director working forboth Grand Lodge of Minnesota
(04:47):
and Minnesota Masonic Charities.
Ethan, how would you bestexplain, breaking that down as
to what we've set out to do inthese roles?
Well, it's, it's an interestingmodel and one that I'm, uh, glad
to be a part of is we talkedabout it.
It's, it's broken upintentionally into thirds.
(05:07):
first third is intended to be anoutreach of the.
Grand Lodge office, a directoutreach to lodges in the state
to try to increase, theefficiency and the support that
we can give those lodges.
The second third is memberdevelopment.
Something Reid you've beeninvolved in for a number of
years now to bring to lodgesideas and action to bring
members into the fraternity.
(05:28):
And the third, something, Marcusis intimately familiar with fund
development.
For Masonic Charities, uh,certainly, uh, but the
fraternity then of course as awhole.
So it's, it's an interestingmodel and, uh, one I think
initially is, uh, is working onpretty well.
And this structure is based uponother jurisdictions doing
(05:48):
similar, a similar arrangementwhere lodge operations,
membership experience and funddevelopment with, in our case of
Minnesota Masonic charities.
Seeing both Grand Lodge andcharities come closer together
in our, in our United efforts.
I don't know if it is by chanceor if it is by design that the
(06:11):
three of us, and you'reintroduced to both Ethan and me,
thank you Reid, but you are theregional director for Central
Minnesota, the third person inthis, uh, triangle, so to say.
Maybe it is by design that weare we, we come with three
different backgrounds.
(06:31):
You know, a third of our time isspent on these three areas.
Membership, membershipdevelopment, large support, and
fund development.
But our areas of expertise arein exactly these three areas.
We have a, an expert in largesupports in our past grant
(06:55):
master, most worshipful brotherEthan.
We have a specialist inmembership in you Reed.
And, um, I have spent a fewyears in fund development and
here we are working together andlearning from one another as we
go.
The question was posed to merecently by a brother, a rather
(07:18):
innocent question of basically,so tell me about all the answers
that you have to fix all ofthese areas of opportunity that
we have.
And I, told him outright.
I, I don't, and none of us, Iwould say claim to have the
answers, but are working closelywith lodges, with our Grand
Lodge officers, with MasonicCharities on.
(07:43):
Enhancing and developing aquality experience across the
board at Lodges within ourentire state.
You know, I wanna be cognizant,you know, Marcus, as you
mentioned, um, you know, areasof expertise are what they are.
And in my particular case, youknow, I, this entire
(08:03):
organization is made up of, ofvolunteers and I wanna be, um.
You know, cognizant of the factthat I'm, you know, we're,
we're, we're now professionalsin what we were volunteers in
for decades.
and so I want that volunteerexperience to be as, uh, as
rewarding and enriching, andI'll use the word easy as
(08:24):
possible, so.
a, if a lodge is being hung upon some sort of governance
issue, uh, and they're unable tomove to a, to an event or to a,
to a new place they'd like togo, or whatever the case might
be, if we can ease that lift,and make the volunteer
experience better, the memberexperience better and the lodge
experience better, we've, we'vesucceeded.
(08:48):
A challenge, uh, in these newroles as there is with most new
jobs, most new workenvironments.
And that is the, what you justmentioned, Ethan, that we are
doing something professionallythat we were doing as volunteers
(09:11):
for, in my case, for a fewyears, in your cases for
decades.
But there's also a, a risk ofconflating these two
experiences.
There is a masonry that I'm apart of, that I'm a volunteer
in.
I'm a member of a large I liveritual.
(09:33):
I live my large experience, andI do that as brother Marcus.
And then I have an experiencethat goes beyond that where I
try to help brothers and otherlodges.
Whether it be membership, it'dbe large support.
It'd be fundraising towardscertain causes within our
Masonic charities, and I do thatas a professional.
(09:56):
While that is a Masonicexperience, in a way it has and
cannot have anything to do withthe other Masonic experience I
have because it could bedraining.
And that is something that Ipersonally, and I don't know how
you have experienced that overthe past weeks, months.
where we have been in theseroles, um, how you have
(10:17):
experienced that because, um,there are expectations to us and
we have expectations to thefraternity where we need to set
boundaries for our, um, for onicexperiences.
And I really and deeplyappreciate the brothers who have
reached out and said, if youfeel there are conflicts of
(10:38):
interest, be straightforwardabout those and we will also
help you through these, uh,experiences.
That has allowed me to continueto have a Masonic experience
That is just my life's journeyin Masonry.
Your comments, Marcus, remind meof, uh, something I've spent a,
(11:00):
a good chunk of my adult lifein, uh, church governance.
And one of the early, uh, bitsof, uh, recommendations, and was
made to me was to never hireanyone, uh, from the
congregation.
And it's because on, on, in mycase, on Sunday morning, uh, the
secretary wants to come and be aparishioner.
(11:22):
Has no interest in being thesecretary because it's Sunday.
But how do people not talkabout, you know, the, the, uh,
food drive coming up this weekor the, uh, confirmation
documents that I didn't get.
And so their experience changesdramatically, uh, as a result of
being, you know, part of thepaid staff.
So I, I couldn't help but thinkof that in, you know,
considering taking this positionis how do you, how do you
(11:45):
maintain that separation, uh, sothat your experience can be.
The kind that you signed up for.
It's the reason we, we joinedthe fraternity in the first
place and it's, uh, it's adance.
There's definitely anopportunity for all of us to be
doing this full time now, tofind that balance, ironically
(12:05):
enough that we're thinkingequilibrium and that 24 inch
gauge.
Initially when these roleslaunched, there was a bit of a
misperception.
Perhaps it was amiscommunication on where these
roles fit into the greaterscheme of things.
We are not Grand Lodge officers.
(12:26):
We are office staff.
The district reps do not reportto us, nor to the area deputies.
If anything, I would think thatwe.
We work for them.
Exactly.
Our roles are to ideallyminimize or help, especially
those busy district reps andarea deputies and, and to help
(12:49):
them with resources and answersto their questions and to do
everything we can to lightentheir burden.
I think that's, uh, critical.
Um, I hope that that's, uh, aswe stand up to positions and
they become more, more mature,that that's what, uh, the ADSD
and DRS will see.
Um, it is delightful every time,uh, one of them calls to ask,
(13:12):
uh, a question and you can, um.
Do the work and bring the value,uh, and hopefully cut down on
the time a volunteer has to thothose, not only are they
volunteering in their lodges,they're volunteering in those
positions too.
And so the more help we canbring, uh, the better.
And, and I think we could definesuccess as, as, um, those guys
(13:33):
coming to us asking for that,that kind of assistance.
What you just, uh, said, Ethanreminds me of the initial
question that.
Reed asked the assumption thatchange might not, will not
produce something that is abetter outcome.
It's a gut reaction that wehave, and we are introducing
(13:54):
something that is not we as inthe three of us, but the Masonic
fraternity in Minnesota hasintroduced something that is
unknown to the fraternal life inour state, and we have.
Roles that have been lived fordecades, but the people who have
(14:15):
filled these roles, and inparticular, their lives have
changed.
I mentioned earlier, we livemuch faster paced lives today,
and we expect faster outcomes,but that puts all of us under a
much higher pressure in ourdaily lives to volunteer roles
as they have been 5, 10, 15, 20years ago.
(14:36):
Those brothers that take onvolunteer work do not have as
much time, not just perceived,not as much time, but they don't
have that much time.
They have demands from theirfamilies.
They have demands in their ownwork life, Masonic life.
So it's, it's good to see howour brothers in volunteer roles
(14:57):
have embraced that extra supportthat we are able to provide for
them.
They are able to give the grandlarge office a call.
Or send an email or send a textmessage, Hey, I need help with
this question.
I am new to this role assecretary, or in whatever
function it may be in the lodge.
And we are able to respondimmediately, respectful of their
(15:18):
time as well because their timeis precious and, uh, limited
that they can spend on theirvolunteer roles.
And here we are able toaccommodate that.
That's a change that we.
For all of us demand adaptionbefore it can can become
appreciation.
(15:40):
When the corporate Board ofGrand Lodge and the Charities
Board started this discussion.
It was, how can we better serveour members because it's, it's
been a long time coming toideally not overwork and burn
out all of our volunteers.
You know, one of the things, uh,one of the tangible examples I
(16:02):
can give of exactly what you'retalking about, Reid, and I'm
gonna get some of the numbers,uh, wrong, but when I first
started as a, a dr.
Years ago, it was a two pagesheet of my duties.
I think the most recent Dr.
Guide is six seven pages orsomething like that.
And the idea was to try tochisel away for the reasons Reid
(16:24):
you just mentioned at that listof responsibilities so that the
DRS can focus on their historicand incredibly important role.
And, uh, you know, people likeus can, can help with the, uh,
the administrative, uh, liftingThe question gets asked
frequently.
We could start with membership.
(16:45):
Are we growing?
Have we solved the membershipconundrum yet?
And part of what we are doing inour role in working with the
lodges on that lodge operationsfront is to ensure that we are
providing our members new andold and existing, a quality
experience returning to thingslike true and authentic.
(17:12):
Quality, friendship andbrotherhood.
A question that we've hadamongst us in many discussions
in, in talking to friends andnon masons, what is our purpose
as an organization?
What is the point of what we aredoing as Freemasons?
(17:33):
Well, the, the two answers that,that I've heard most often are,
uh, both internal and, and oneinternal, one external.
to have a, a fraternalexperience, uh, one that
involves, uh, community, theauthentic friendships you
mentioned and others that has atie, a history.
Um, and, and the long historyof, of Freemasonry and those,
(17:54):
those greats who have comebefore us, that's certainly one
aspect.
But the second one is internal.
You know, we could create anenvironment where that kind of
experience could happen, thatexternal experience.
But if I go to something anddon't feel an internal
connection with the men in thelodge, uh, start developing
friendships with them,meaningful ones, um, without
(18:15):
that internal component, I'm notgonna come back.
So.
Freemasonry.
It is both externally and, andinternally, um, important, uh,
to me and, and to the people whoare members that I know.
And I think that's the point ofit.
It is a something, it is asomething to us and we wanna
(18:36):
create the best something, uh,we can hear.
I'm going to quote.
Has been quoted quite often andmaybe is a misunderstood Mason
in many ways.
Manly P Hall.
And he wrote something in one ofthe earliest books that I ever
(18:59):
wrote that were written by him,and he said that the Masonic
journey, and I have toparaphrase because I can't get
it right, but the Masonicjourney is one of spiritual
unfoldment.
Whether or not we want to addthe dimension of spirituality
into this.
Let's leave that aside, but theword unfoldment, I actually had
(19:21):
to look it up.
English is not my firstlanguage, right?
Is that, does it even exist?
That word unfoldment?
Why would you not say unfolding,et cetera, et cetera.
But it, it shows the internaldimension of what you just
mentioned, Ethan, that there'ssomething that we experience in
the largest.
That goes back as an answer toyour question earlier, what are
(19:43):
we doing as masons?
We are providing an environmentfertile ground that individuals
who join the largest and becomemembers of our fraternity become
our brothers, become masons.
That they can unfold.
That the, that their journeybecomes one of unfoldment and
maybe, hopefully.
(20:04):
I am personally convinced thatthat is one of the reasons that
we do this spiritual unfoldmentin addition to other spiritual
unfoldment that you mightexperience in your life.
And from that comes all theexternal activities that we as
Masons are mostly known for inthe community.
What it's driven by us changingourselves, being willing to
(20:26):
change ourselves to becomeselfless.
To the extent possible in ourlifetime, and that drives the
external perception of who weare as Masons.
We've heard so many abstractphrases over the years.
Well, what do you do as freemasons?
(20:47):
Well, we make good men better.
Mm-hmm.
Actually, we don't.
We don't make anybody anything,but we do provide, For lack of a
better term, a treasure map onhow to become a better or
improved version of ourselves.
But that's on each of us.
(21:09):
Some of the most successfullodges I've visited in our state
or even around the country.
Have the most simple anduncomplicated approach.
They plan way ahead.
They over-communicate in a, in agood way and take a very
balanced approach to thatauthentic friendship and
(21:30):
brotherhood.
The personal development, wejust alluded to, the education
component, learning somethingnew.
How can I become that betterversion of myself in the
building of community?
That can be both internally andin a surrounding neighborhood is
really big right now, and thatis a huge ask of our new
(21:51):
members.
If a lodge doesn't have much oranything of community
engagement, that's a huge miss,and that's another part of our
mission to help reconnect ourlodges.
Not only with Minnesota Masoniccharities and the endeavors
going on there, but in each ofour neighborhoods, when, when
(22:13):
and where we can.
I've gotta say one of the thingsthat surprised me most since I
started in this, this role, uh,are the prospects that come from
be a freemason.org.
Those, those men who are, youknow, voluntarily raising their
hand and saying, I'm interestedin this fraternity.
(22:33):
I see time and time again aresaying I want to give back to my
community.
Now, we are not going to providethat on the path we're talking
about here.
You know, the internal, but ifwe're not in a community, those
guys aren't going to identify usas an organization through which
they can give back to thatcommunity.
(22:56):
So to be outside that lodge is acritical part of, of what we're
trying to engender here.
Using the resources of Masoniccharities and decades of
experience, we wanna try to showlodges how, just how critically
important it's to get out thatdoor so that you can identify
the lodge as a place that peoplewant to come into.
(23:16):
And those layers are tetheredtogether.
Our membership will grow.
When we have in fact, plantedthe seeds and are cultivating
authentic friendships,brotherhood within the lodge,
when it's a place to go where weare so happy to see one another,
and we are engaging in things oftaking an interest in what's
(23:39):
going on in each other's livesand how we are engaging our
community and that personaldevelopment.
When that question comes, well,we just need more members.
Obviously we want to grow, butwe wanna do so in a meaningful
way and that will take time aswell that this foundation we're
a little bit of a reset as weare distilling down the lodge
(24:03):
experience to encompass thesethings in a meaningful, in a
tangible way.
This expression, membershipgrowth.
It can also be understood in twoways, right?
We often understand itqualitatively that the number of
members in the membership grows,but I have come to appreciate a
(24:29):
different perspective of it.
When you say membership growth,that the individual member grows
and that we actually celebratethat.
One of the things that I havefound.
Fascinating and exciting andreally satisfying.
In my short, um, admittedlyMasonic journey so far is to see
(24:55):
brothers that were raisedtogether with me, or shortly
before or shortly after haveassumed roles in the large, have
grown into roles in the largeand as members have grown and.
My personal observation is thatwe need to learn and we should
(25:20):
celebrate that membership growthmore than we do, that we have
individual members, that we asan organization are able to
shoulder what masonry was 10,15, 20, 40 years ago, where we
were 10,000 more or 20,000additional masons in Minnesota.
We are a fraternity now that isjust under eight, 8,000 master
(25:43):
masons in the state, and we havemembers that grow that actually
are able to shoulder work in thelargest responsibilities, and
they show that masonry actuallyis at work.
And once we have that part evenbetter under control, Then the
(26:04):
quantitative growth is justaround the corner.
Marcus, you mentioned a fewmoments ago that English is not
your first language, should haveled off with this earlier.
Tell us where you were born andyour journey in arriving in the
US and in ultimately inMinnesota.
(26:26):
Maybe I should start with this.
I live in Duluth, Minnesota, andI call Duluth, Minnesota home.
I've lived there for 16 yearsnow, just shy of 16 years, and
that is the longest I've everlived in once in one spot or in
the same spot.
I was born and raised inGermany, s in Germany, in the
rural district.
(26:46):
I left Germany when I was, uh,20 years old and moved to
Denmark.
Spent 25 years of my life inDenmark and then moved to, to
the us And with a little bit ofquick math, you can find out
that I am, uh, not pushing 60yet, but 59.
What was the catalyst for you topursue becoming a Freemason?
(27:12):
There are actually two, uh, tworeasons.
My father's best friend was aMason.
I stood next to him in churchand I saw him pray in church in
the peculiar manner that we asMasons pray.
And I was the little naughtyboy, and I looked at him during
prayer and confronted him in acouple times and said.
(27:37):
Uncle Heinz, why do you haveyour hands in such an odd
manner?
And he said to me, Marcus, whenyou are a little older, I will
tell you about that.
Unfortunately, he passed, um, afew years later.
He passed when I was 13 yearsold.
I was way too young to ever beintroduced to Masonry and my
father was not amazing.
(27:59):
my second dad.
I call my father-in-law, my, mysecond dad because he introduced
me to things that a father wouldintroduce, young men to.
He taught me hunting, forexample, so that's why I call
him dad as well.
My father-in-law is a mason andhas been since 1979 in Duluth,
and he introduced me to theScottish Rite, brought me to
(28:22):
events there, and it took me.
The better part of three and ahalf years before I eventually
talked to Blue Lodge Masons thatwere at the Scottish Rite event
and, uh, petitioned.
So I was a, a prospect for along time.
And your home lodge is Glen Avonin Duluth.
(28:43):
That's correct, yes.
And I recently chose.
To join another lodge, HectorLodge, 1 58 in, uh, in St.
Paul because, uh, I wanted toshare my Masonic experience with
a couple of my colleagues, EthanSeaberg.
You've been at this microphoneprior, but tell us a bit more
(29:06):
about, is Red Wing, has it beenRed Wing the whole time in life?
Marcus's story is much moreinteresting.
I was.
Born in Red Wing, raised in RedWing, and I lived four doors
down and across the street frommy parents in Red Wing.
So yes, Marcus's story is muchmore interesting than mine.
Um, but yes, uh, lived there myentire life.
My entire life and found my wayto follow your next question
(29:28):
about the fraternity.
I am here as a result of a 1950sera cover of Life Magazine.
A dear friend of mine was amember, uh, of the lodging Can
of falls.
He was the, uh, solid wasteofficial in Goodyear County.
And, uh, as he saw through therecycling stream, uh, that
classic copy of Life Magazine, Ithink every Freemason is
familiar with the Grand Masterson the steps of the capitol.
(29:52):
He brought that back to hisoffice, was sitting on his desk
when I saw it one day, and Isaid, who are those people?
and he's the one that introducedme to the fraternity.
So I've got Life magazine to, tothank for this.
That particular back issue ofLife Magazine is still very
popular.
It's expensive on eBay.
It is such an interestingchronicle of Freemasonry of
(30:15):
Scottish and York rights ofother concordant bodies.
It was so well done.
Yeah, I, I remember opening it,you know, at the time and being
introduced to the kinds ofthings you're describing.
And then once you join thoseorganizations and having, you
know, been talked about, um, youknow, tiling lodges and making
certain that we keep.
Those things had happened insidelodges to ourselves.
(30:36):
I went back to that issue of themagazine and it seemed like
somebody set up a camera in themiddle of a lodge meeting.
I mean, they would, you'reright.
Everything was, was there in the19, the 1950s.
Part of what we strive to do onthis podcast is get to know our
guests better, and while on onehand you are both well known,
you're both traveled and allover the state, but let's throw
(30:59):
the random question at you.
See where you go with this,Marcus.
What holiday does not exist, butshould now, coming from Europe,
I have to imagine there'sholidays for everything.
There's way more holidays inEurope than we have here, so I
(31:21):
almost would feel bad tointroduce the thought of a
holiday, just to mention Easter.
It's five days off in Denmark.
Really?
Yeah.
And here we get a meager Sundayout of it, right?
Five days.
What do you do for five days?
Is it the full Monday?
Thursday is a day off Long.
Friday is a day off.
Saturday is a day where you cango shopping after two days of
(31:43):
shops that have been closed.
And uh, Easter Sunday andEastern Monday are also
holidays.
Would that be your vote toextend Easter to the five day
option?
It gives you a very nice startof the late spring, early summer
season, and time for reflectionand time for, you know, being,
(32:05):
being off, being, being there,being present with your family.
I, you know, when we, when welook at it from that
perspective, I think.
I wouldn't really advocate forone particular holiday, but it
seems to me hate me if you want,as a European to say that, that
(32:27):
the holidays that we have herein the US are rushed.
It would be nice to have aholiday that is extended.
It doesn't have to be five days,but shoulder days left and
right.
That would be really nice to getinto the spirit of whatever
holiday we are celebrating.
So rushed.
The stores are open, the mallsare open.
(32:48):
The sale decompressing would bemuch appreciated.
Ethan, you can wipe a minorannoyance or problem off the
face of the earth.
What do you choose?
Left lane sitters.
The people who drive 30 miles anhour in the left lane on a four
lane road.
The hammer lane violator.
(33:09):
Holy mackerel.
Yes, that and, and I mean, whatI should have said was, you
know, child hunger, the sscourge of cancer and all the
rest.
But that was, you said minorannoyance, so that was it.
Yeah.
And how would you go about that?
What, how would we imprisonthem?
Read?
Just lock them up.
But what about I have my drivesafe and save thing in my car.
(33:31):
I used to be.
80 miles an hour everywhere.
But now I'm older and boring andI have, I literally have the
drive and sometimes I get stuckin the hammer lane and I, is it
a Midwestern thing?
I get nervous.
I'm looking in the mirrorthinking, oh my God, I gotta get
over.
This guy's going to be verydispleased with me.
It could be.
I'll come pick you up if youneed any doubt all, that's no
(33:52):
problem.
Alright Marcus, what's somethingmore people should know about
history?
Why?
History can teach us lessons.
we usually say about history.
If you know history then, or ifyou do not know history, then
you are bound to repeat it.
(34:13):
That's not the reason I mentionit, The reason I advocate for
history is it gives us so muchmore context for what we know
and should know about each othersociety, the way we live our
lives, understand each other,understand the countries that we
live in, the cultural spherethat we exist in.
(34:34):
Yeah.
History.
We should know more abouthistory.
Ethan, what physical trait doessociety consider attractive but
does not appeal to you?
Are you nuts?
Uh, let me see.
It's the card I pulled out ofthe deck.
(34:54):
I'm sure it is.
Physical trait.
does not appeal to you.
It doesn't appeal to you.
Well full, uh, men with fullheads of hair, obviously.
I mean, that's, that's what,what other answer can I give?
Well, this has just gotten veryawkward.
(35:16):
I'm sitting here with twofollicly challenged friends and
brothers who are both Now you'reboth looking at me with that.
Look, you got great hair.
Reed, the acronym FC stands forfootball club in Europe and not
for follicly challenged.
Oh, I want to to say that.
Wow.
That was the first, uh, randomquestion that turned a little,
(35:36):
uh, uncomfortable for a moment.
Good successful podcast then.
I appreciate both of you beingin studio with me today and the
work that we are doing together.
There's a lot going on behindthe scenes that isn't
necessarily broadcast, that wehave a lot of very exciting
endeavors in the works.
(35:58):
Uh, the gala we have coming upfor charities in September and
looking ahead to 2026, we aregoing to be.
Planning and hosting what willbe called the M series or
Masonic series Galas and onewill be in Minneapolis, in the
Minneapolis St.
Paul area in central, uh,Marcus.
You have the clinic gala comingup in August of this summer,
(36:21):
which more watch for details onthat.
And Ethan will be also hostingan M Series gala early in 2026.
We, we could go on and on with abusy calendar.
This is a great opportunity forus to encourage our listeners to
check the Facebook page, checkthe Instagram Grand Lodge.
Please read all of thecorrespondence coming through
(36:43):
Grandview with the e Mason, theAshler.
Lot of events.
There's so many.
Isn't that ironic?
We have so many avenues tocommunicate electronically, and
yet sometimes they just getmissed.
I'm so grateful you mentionedthat because there's a public
service announcement that Iwould love to make and it has
everything to do with what youjust said about resources.
(37:03):
Time and time again, we areasked righteous questions, uh,
about lodge administration andoperations membership fund
development, and it's in grandview, uh, and it's a wonderful
resource and.
we would be incrediblysuccessful if the first impulse
that our members had was tocheck the resources, uh, in
(37:25):
Grand View, because thoseanswers, 90% of the answers, uh,
the questions that were beingasked are living right there.
And if any member has achallenge finding set
information in Grandview,contact any one of us and we'll
walk you through it.
Absolutely.
As we move toward the end of oursession today, I think, um, I
(37:47):
don't wanna speak for all of us,but I think I can, uh, when I
thank the craft, uh, thank thecraft, thank, thank the Grand
Lodge, thank the board corporateBoard, and the board of
Minnesota Mason Sonic Charitiesfor this opportunity.
I never thought that there wouldbecome a day when I would be
doing this, and it is anabsolute privilege and delight,
a delight to work with men likeyou and a delight to be a part
(38:07):
of this organization.
So, a thank you is, iscompletely appropriate.
I would say ditto to that.
We have the greatest job in theworld.
We get to work on behalf of thecraft and to work around our
great state.
Yes, and we get to do thingsthat are, that are challenging,
but we are in an environmentwhere we can also live masonry,
(38:29):
right?
There are things I'm learningthings and I appreciate the fact
that the craft offers theopportunity to learn that and
actually help, and that we as a,the craft in Minnesota.
Actually are not too proud tolearn from other jurisdictions
where they successfully havedeployed this model of
(38:50):
full-time, large support toshore up a fraternity that is
challenged in numbers, but tomake it strong so that it can
grow not just individually, butalso in numbers.
Again, And if any of ourbrothers have ideas,
perspective, feedback, and wantto be part of solutions, let's
(39:17):
have those conversations.
Later this year, we will rollout our regional lodge support
teams.
We have some big things in theworks as far as lodge
operations.
On the support side, we want tohear from you.
None of us claims to have all ofthe answers.
We want to work together and getthat feedback, but put things in
(39:37):
action.
We as Masons, maybe as society,we're so good at talking about
things.
We talk about it a lot.
We wanna execute with purpose onpurpose.
Ensure we have a bright future,not just a short term
satisfaction of minor victories,but an infinite perspective and
how we can ensure the craft ishealthy for years and years,
(40:01):
generations to come.
Ethan Seaberg, Marcus Mueller.
Thank you both for being heretoday.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, Reid.
This has been another episode ofMinnesota Masonic Histories and
Mysteries.
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