June 6, 2025 • 47 mins
”Does Masonry complement you, or does it define you?”
This week we sit down with Dr. Sujit Varma and cover a wide variety of topics: the psychology of complaining, AI’s influences in our lives, and how to bridge the gap between embracing technology and retaining authentic human connection.
”Imagine like 500 years ago when Gutenberg invented the printing press, I'm sure there was some parent then who said, ‘…oh my God, books are gonna rot your mind because you spend too much time reading!’”
Sujit owns a psychiatry practice and is a Past Master of Lake Harriet Lodge No. 277 in Minneapolis.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Why do we love to complain?
(00:06):
Okay, that's a really loadedquestion.
It can go several ways.
So now I wanna say that I'mprobably not, uh, high on the
complaining side and I'mprobably, you know, putting
myself in a pedestal.
But yeah, I think we like tocomplain because.
You know, we can never besatisfied.
I think human beings are always,there's this desire to be
(00:29):
creative and innovative.
So that's a good thing.
So no matter how successful thegovernment is or society is, we
always want something more.
And how do you get that?
You always complain.
So, you know, like say, let'suse example of the internet, you
know, now we have 5G or six GI,I still hear, I have my kids
complain and say, how comeyou're so slow?
(00:50):
I mean, come on.
I mean, 10 years ago I had to dothe a OL dial up and they don't
remember all that stuff.
They don't even know the soundeffect, do they?
Oh yeah.
They don't remember that.
And I can imagine, like myparents, uh, you know, they did
a lot of stuff that I probablynever did.
Like, you know, they knew how todo woodworking or fix a car.
Now we are complaining when wego to the car dealership and
(01:13):
say, oh, this guy's taking somuch time.
Why is he charging so muchmoney?
So I think it's just a.
It's just part of our thing.
No matter how much we achieve,the target keeps moving and I
think that's a positive thing.
It's a sign of evolution.
We want to progress.
And you know that saying noprogress must progress.
So I guess complaining could bea good thing too.
(01:35):
I was recently in a coffee shopwaiting for a friend and brother
to arrive.
I.
Everywhere around me, everyconversation was so negative, it
was just loud and not a singleperson in that moment seemed to
be sharing something they werehappy about, that something good
(01:55):
had happened.
We'll get to that in greaterdetail in a little bit.
Our guest today was born inIndia.
Grew up in Kuwait where he liveduntil having finished high
school.
He then returned to India forhigher education and went to
medical school there aftermedical school relocated to
(02:15):
Vancouver where he did afellowship in psychiatry at the
University of British Columbia,which was followed up with a
psychiatry residency at theUniversity of Texas in Houston.
After Texas.
It was a relocation from theLone Star state to the North
Star State.
He lived in Hibbing for threeyears and then moved south to
(02:37):
the Twin Cities where he haslived for 16 years.
He is also a pass master of LakeHarriet Lodge, number 2, 7 7 in
Minneapolis.
Welcome, Sujit Varma.
Welcome, Reid.
Thanks for having me.
You own a private practiceclinic called Sci-fi TMS in
Edina, and you practice as apsychiatrist?
Yeah.
Tell us more.
(02:57):
Yeah, and I'm glad you pronounceit right.
So it's spelled P-S-Y-F-I.
And it sounds like sci-fi,almost like science fiction, but
we are trying to not make a punon that.
It's psych psychiatric fidelity.
Acronym, but we do do sciencefiction, uh, fact not fiction.
So, uh, if you wanna know whatthe practice, yes, it's like a
(03:19):
regular clinic.
Um, we see people with, uh,behavior problems, mental health
issues.
We prescribe, we prescribemedications, we offer therapy.
We also offer something calledTMS.
It's in the title TranscranialMagnetic Stimulation, not the
Metal Society or Toyota MotorServices.
Uh, it's a newer technique totreat, uh, depression, obsessive
(03:42):
compulsive disorder, smokingcessation, anxiety, migraines
among other things.
And we also offer othertreatments like ketamine for,
again, treatment resistantdepression among other options.
What are some of the best orworst areas that you focus on
(04:03):
that you, that you have to byvirtue of someone's condition or
when they come in for treatmentand for help?
Well, the best would be what Iwould let, definitely wanna see
all the time, but they're sohealthy, I can only see them
once year.
So that would be somebody with amild case of anxiety.
And anxiety is the commonest,uh, medical condition after I
(04:24):
think.
Osis, which is bad breath orgingivitis.
Uh, so those patients probablyjust need to have seen once year
they do some kind of therapy.
Yoga, tai Chi, they're on a lowdose of medication.
Those are the best cases.
Worst cases, we talk about theclassic psychiatric diagnosis
like schizophrenia, which is achronic, debilitating mental
(04:44):
illness or bipolar, can also bepretty crippling.
Some of them are on socialsecurity disability, but the
worst kind of patient, and I'mnot trying to judge anybody, is
somebody with some kinds ofdisorder because.
Remember your question aboutcomplaining.
I mean, these are patients thatno matter what I might try to do
for them, they're alwayscomplaining about my service or
(05:05):
the cost of the medications, orwhy are they doing the therapy?
Sometimes the complaining, theprocrastinating or reveling in
maybe making a competition outof that perceived Yeah,
definitely.
I mean, I'm always up for achallenge.
I never.
Try to get rid of a patient justbecause they are, pardon my use
(05:28):
of this word, but a pain in theneck.
I mean, they are seeing mebecause they have challenging
problems and I'm probably thelast person who can help them.
I, in fact, I'm probably thebest friend.
Most of these people aredivorced or have very low social
support.
They're lonely.
They're in a group home.
So, uh, they can complain to me,but I don't take it personal.
(05:49):
And I try my best to.
Offer them something that, uh,you know, is suitable to the
condition with my means.
Of course.
How much have you seen anxietyincrease as something you're
addressing in the last fewyears?
Is it really, is that on therise?
Is that the top?
(06:10):
Yeah, like I said, anxiety isprobably the commonest
psychological condition.
It's not necessarily that theywould come to somebody like me,
a professional.
Most people will treat anxietywith their own versions like.
You can go to a bar, have a fewdrinks.
You can, in Minnesota, it'slegal to smoke cannabis and you
know, go to a gummy store.
So there's a lot of non-healthyways to deal with anxiety, and
(06:34):
only even it starts gettingworse and worse.
Do they come to me?
But what I've seen, if you wantto.
Have an academic answer.
Since COVID, there's been anincrease in two conditions.
One is attention disorder orwhat we call A DHD.
There's been an increasedawareness of that, and I have a
whole theory about that.
And even an increased awarenessof autism is that again, because
(06:57):
of we are just being moresensitive to it and we are
better ways of diagnosing it, oris it false representation
through things like socialmedia?
Which can be informative, butalso can give you false
information.
What do you attribute theattention deficit to?
Is it one thing?
Is it several factors playinginto that?
(07:18):
Yeah.
Good question.
So there's a whole, uh.
You know, multiple factors thatcan affect that.
Now, if you are working on afarm or you live in a rural
place where there's lessstimulation from social media,
wifi, stuff like that, listeningto a podcast like this, you
probably, I.
May not have a DHD if you haveit, because you are just busy
(07:40):
milking a cow and doing physicalstuff.
Nothing wrong with that.
But now the pressure of highschool in urban areas, getting
to college, getting low, I mean,it's just the pressure is so
high on young people these daysthat A DHD will start becoming
more and noticeable and you arepressured to perform.
At a higher level than what youneed to.
(08:02):
It's just times they arechanging, as Bob Dylan would've
said.
The other thing also is, again,there's so many distractions out
there.
Like now we have Netflix andYouTube and Hulu.
Even.
I have difficulty keep you upwith all that.
I got so many shows I gottawatch.
The other thing also is postCOVID, we became a little bit
more sedentary, so guess what wedid?
(08:22):
We did a lot of Zoom meetings.
Now that also could increase ADHD.
You're just sitting in front ofa camera.
You know, eight hours a dayversus, you know, you're, you're
driving to work, you are goingout.
So there is that thing where youare more sedentary.
You could become more A DHD justby virtue of your lifestyle
choices.
Also, awareness of A DHD, again,through social media.
(08:46):
Uh, but there is also a falsething, like TikTok sometimes
just promotes a DHD, like, it'slike having anxiety, but it's
not, oh, so.
Oh, they, they do.
They, uh, I haven't watched someof these videos, but I've been
told through some of mycolleagues that they are
promoting things like, just takea pill for A DHD.
And the problem with it is thosepills are highly regulated.
(09:08):
They're called stimulants.
Examples include Adderall orRitalin, and some of them are
converted into drugs like methor ice.
So there is a correlationbetween a controlled substance
that is meant for A DHD and adrug that can be abused.
Just to get euphoric or high.
(09:29):
How often do you encounter aclient?
A patient who makes therealization that I have a
cocktail or two, this isbasically like ingesting a
carcinogen.
Well, it is a carcinogen.
It's going to have the oppositeeffect initially.
It feels good.
Yeah.
Feels maybe even out a littlebit.
Sure.
(09:49):
But, but long that, that's not agreat avenue.
Oh yeah.
And I get many, use the wordcarcinogen.
You probably meant somethingthat causes cancer.
Uh, maybe you meant more likenarcotic or something like that,
that has an abuse potential.
So yeah, I have patients that,um, I.
I would say maybe once or twicea month at least.
I have some random patient whosays, oh, I'm here to see you
(10:10):
for anxiety.
And I said, okay, sure.
Let's talk about that and I'mgonna give you this medication
for anxiety.
He said, oh, by the other, bythe way, my, I spoke to my
neighbor the other day and hegave me this drug called, and I
knew what he is gonna say calledAdderall, and it just took care
of anxiety.
And I thought, okay, you knowwhat?
That doesn't help anxiety.
That just made you feel a littleeuphoric.
(10:32):
And maybe you have a DHD, butnow we talk about a different
thing.
So I do have people like that.
They just do their own thing.
They go on Doc to Google, uh,TikTok, Reddit.
And so that's a problem.
I am competing with all thoseother, uh, false prophets, if
you wanna call it on socialmedia.
And it's very hard becausepeople sometimes believe them
rather than somebody with adegree.
(10:53):
So that is there.
The self-diagnosis on WebMD andotherwise is a real thing, but
an obvious challenge.
Reddit and Dr.
Google.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those things that, uh, youmentioned COVID briefly, and
it's come up frequently aboutour society's battle with
loneliness.
(11:14):
I think it was in 2023, the USDepartment of Health and Human
Services put out a statement.
About society's currentcondition.
That said, we're in a publichealth crisis of loneliness, of
lack of connection andisolation.
There's a friendship recessionthese days.
Mm-hmm.
(11:35):
Wall Street Journal put out lastyear.
A report and a statement.
One in five men in the US whoare not married or in a
relationship said they did nothave any close friends at all.
None.
That's sad.
Yeah.
Did you, did you join afraternity like ours in, That is
(11:57):
actually something on my list offor us to talk about today is
I've, in my travels, haveshared.
Replica.
It's an app.
It's spelled R-E-P-L-I-K-A.
Okay.
It's labeled as the AICompanion.
The AI Companion.
Who cares?
Always here to listen and talk,always on your side.
(12:18):
Now, this app known as Replica,it's used basically as a virtual
friend or a sibling, and in mytravels, when I ask, guess how
many users are on Replica it,it's something like 25 million.
Oh.
People wanting to be heard.
Basically just wanting someoneto talk to.
(12:40):
And when we, and when we thinkabout that, the takeaway,
countless men, people in theworld recognize what we do as
Freemasons they are approachinglodges with interest in possibly
learning.
They want to be around others ofintegrity.
Values.
True.
A commitment to communityengagement.
The tenets of our profession, aswe say in Freemasonry or the,
(13:03):
the foundation of our values,our core values are being sought
out now more than ever in thisisolated world.
Yeah, I think this is a greattime to be a Freemason.
In fact, uh, I think that, uh,it wasn't for Freemasonry when I
would be like that.
Looking for replica ai or doesthat surprise you?
(13:24):
25 million people that use thisvirtual.
Friends.
Yeah.
And I mean, I'm surprised, butI'm also not surprised.
I just think that's the waysociety's going.
I mean, we are reaching thisphase where even me, what I do,
I, I've heard of AI therapy, soI'm not a therapist, I'm a
prescriber, I'm a md, but I havecolleagues that do just talk
(13:45):
therapy and there is apossibility that in the future
their job would be obsolete.
You could have an, you know,like a.
Like an AI generated image thatlooks like a real person doing
therapy and being so, you know,it's, you could have somebody
trained.
I know they say that, but youneed a human being for the real
(14:07):
empathy and the warmth.
But oh my gosh.
I mean, the way technology'sgoing, there's a lot of things
that, uh, it's kinda like, uh,you remember, I mean, I'm dating
myself.
There was a time when there werethree people in the cockpit.
Off the plane, there was thepilot, the copilot, and the
flight engineer.
And now we don't have the flightengineer.
(14:27):
I mean, is anybody complainingabout it?
It's like that.
I mean, does anybody evennotice?
Yeah.
Didn't even notice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And even in medicine, there's alot of things that, uh, have
gone away.
A lot of people don't know isthat, and I know they see, oh,
I, I would like to see somebodyof flesh in blood, but guess
what's happening now?
My patients are not alwaysseeing me in person.
They're seeing me throughtelehealth.
(14:49):
It could be all the way inInternational Falls, three and a
half hours away from Edina, butthey're seeing me now.
There is an advantage to thatThey are getting, if you want to
call a high quality care fromthe Twin Cities in the in
International Falls, I couldeven send them a prescription to
a local Walgreens Inn.
They're not, they're not wastingany time driving down, coming
(15:10):
back.
There's no anxiety there.
They can get good quality carewhere they are.
And gone are the days where thedoctor got on his horse or buggy
and drove to somebody's house,did something, and then the, the
lady at the house would make apie and say, here's your copay.
You know?
Right.
No interest is back.
So, uh, that is, you know, itwas so nice back then, like
(15:32):
Little House on the Prairie orwhatever.
But now we are reaching thisphase where we are slowly
isolating.
We are in these jobs where, uh,you know, we can just sit in
our, the basement of a house andI.
Even be the CEO of a company forall I know.
And, that's where Masonry wouldbe a great thing.
I, I, I think apart from mymarriage and my kids, masonry is
(15:53):
the best thing that I've everdone in my life.
And every time I walk intolodge, even I haven't seen a
brother for several years, hecome and say, Hey, Suge, how is
it?
And I feel so, and when I comeback home, nobody wants to gimme
a hug and, you know, embrace meas much at these brothers.
So it's very exciting.
And in lodge also people.
Stretch the head.
So maybe masonry is thesolution, at least for the
(16:17):
brothers who are listening tothis.
When we are in the relationshipbusiness, we are a face-to-face
organization.
If, if technology takes overcompletely in the fraternal
setting, that will not be good.
Yeah.
I know there's a fine linebetween amassing.
Books and information through AIto leverage that technology for
(16:42):
medical treatment orpsychological treatment for a
number of different things.
Yeah, but that must be a fineline between technology versus
speaking to the machine whenyou, when you're doing a
telehealth.
Appointment with someone inInternational Falls, it's still
you, it's still Dr.
Jit.
It's not just speaking to analgorithm that's Oh yeah, de
(17:04):
definitely like a bot.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wait, is that where this mightbe going someday?
Yeah.
So it's kinda like, uh, a gameof chess.
Now I heard there's somethingcalled Deep thought or
something, or, uh.
Watson, there was a thing where,you know, in jeopardy he could
answer every single question,and then there was a thing that,
so now what if you have all themedical algorithms inputted into
(17:26):
this AI and somebody says, Hey,doctor ai, I have this headache
and I got this.
And then the algorithm just runsthrough, oh, you've got this
kind of migraine just based onyour symptoms.
I'm not saying that I'm, uh, I'mfor it or against it, but it is
coming in the next five, 10years, it'll be more common.
In fact, even in my professionnow, there is an AI where you
(17:49):
just look at the screen and theAI will tell you, tell the, so
the AI can be used to help thephysician.
It'll tell you what kind ofneurological prompt that is just
by looking at the patient'sface.
For example, there's a conditionin psychiatry called TD Tardive
Dyskinesia, which is a abnormalmovement of the lips and the
eyes, and usually we as humanbeings, we might overlook it
(18:12):
while we are doing theinterview, but an a computer or
an AI would look at thatperson's face while you're doing
the interview and say, Hey, heblinked only 12 times a minute,
and that.
Means that you might want tolook at whether he has that
condition.
Tardive dyskinesia.
So it's, uh, so AI can assist usjust like how we have x-rays and
MRIs to help the physician or,so I don't wanna say that AI
(18:36):
should be, you know, banned orsomething.
I think it'll, it'll help, butunfortunately we don't keep up
with it.
It is something that's very hardto, you know, to overcome.
Kind of like.
There are certain jobs that arenot there around anymore, like a
hood.
There are no meter MAs.
Have you heard that term?
I, I can date myself.
Yeah.
Okay, I remember that.
(18:56):
Yes.
Yeah, because it's all, you justgo there, you pay your credit
card, stuff like that.
There are a few jobs.
You don't see the milkman comingto your house and delivering
milk.
I mean, do people miss that guy?
I mean, unless you live in arural place.
So it is something that we haveto live with.
Uh, but then they's stillmasonry 300 years plus.
(19:18):
recently, a friend of ourspicked up their daughter at
college.
The year ended, and our friendsshared that they were in the
dorm and they couldn't believehow quiet all the doors were
closed every room, each residentin this dorm?
Mm-hmm.
Or.
Very different than when you andI were in college in that common
(19:41):
area.
Outside of the dorm rooms iswhere everyone congregated and
talked.
Probably wasted a lot of time.
Should have been studying,doing, yeah, more productive and
constructive things.
But even in the collegeexperience, our friends were
just.
Shocked at how they assumed thatthe whole floor had vacated.
Yeah.
And everyone was still there.
Yeah.
But nobody was out socializing.
(20:03):
Mm-hmm.
We're so even in that, I don'tknow if that's post COVID, if
that's just the way of theworld.
Now we are on our device all thetime.
When you, when I, we werewatching the NBA playoffs and
they go to commercial.
Everyone is on their phone.
Like, why are you even at agame?
It's true spending an exorbitantamount of money to be there when
(20:25):
everyone's staring at theirphone.
Yeah, no, that's a goodobservation.
I remember like 10, 15 yearsago, I, uh, I actually once
caught a Greyhound bus seven inTexas and it was like for four
hours.
And I remember talking to theguy who was with me, he was like
a veteran.
He was, uh.
I think he was in the Gulf Warand I, I, I remember that
(20:46):
conversation so well.
But nowadays, like when you'rein a plane, do you talk to the
guy next to you?
You're probably watching, uh,you know, something on the back
of the chair in front of you.
You got your wifi again.
Uh, I think we just have ashorter attention span.
Again, that's about a DHD.
We are, uh, human beings arejust changing the way we are,
(21:08):
you know, push button, get whatI want.
Yeah.
And we want quick immediategratification now.
I recently heard an influencerauthor type talk about
impatience, speaking of, and heshared that yes, a lot of people
these days are really, reallyimpatient, and he himself
(21:29):
admitted, he's impatient.
He doesn't want to preach aboutit, but it's, it's become worse.
Because we're so used to thepower of our phones, our
computers, we think everything,we're expecting everything to
happen quickly and instantly.
You mentioned this earlier, ifwe have to wait five seconds to
get a piece of information onthe internet, oh my god, it's
taking so long.
(21:49):
Yeah.
But he made the point 20, 30years ago you would've had to go
to the library.
Mm-hmm.
Would've taken an hour to dosomething like that.
So you, you learned how todevelop patients to find things.
People are so impatient becauseit's all so quick and easy and
powerful.
Now he made the point.
(22:12):
You want to be able to slowthings down though.
You want to have the ability tosay, if this is gonna take me an
hour to learn, if I have tospend time practicing studying,
if it's tedious that I'm okaywith that.
He talked about embracing thatpain that's involved.
It's funny that delaying hispain, but learning anything,
(22:34):
developing any type of skillinvolves the pain, I suppose, of
patients.
You have kids in school?
Yeah.
How do they, is it, how do youmanage that with, with that
instance?
I don't wanna wait for this.
I want it now.
Oh.
And I can just again, look backup on your own childhood.
I'm sure my parents, at thattime, television was just
(22:56):
becoming a big thing and theywould say, oh.
I think television is gonna rothis mind.
And then now we have, YouTube isgonna rot your mind.
Or TikTok, and I'm just making ajoke here, but imagine like 500
years ago when Gutenberginvented the book or printing
press, I'm sure there was someparent then who told, he said,
oh my God, books are gonna rotyour mind because you spent too
(23:17):
much time.
Yeah.
Spending time reading.
So it depends on what you mean.
Now again, I'm not againsttechnology.
There is good and bad.
We are becoming more efficient,like you said about the library
incident.
Like I remember you'd have to goto, I remember once looking up,
I was trying to research, forsome reason I was interested in
John f Kennedy's assassination,and this is like 15 years ago
(23:37):
when I was in Vancouver.
I went to the library and Ilooked up something that we
don't even see these days.
It was like a newspaper archivethat was on like a microfiche.
Microfiche, yeah.
Yeah.
And I had to see them.
I saw them, I thought, wow.
I think it was a Dallas Tribuneor something, and he said,
November 23rd and all, and Ithought, boy, if I had the
original copy of this newspaper,that would be a great thing to
have.
(23:58):
But now guess what?
You just go on Google, go toWikipedia.
You can see a picture, you canread about it.
It's like at your fingertips andyou don't, I don't know, I don't
get the satisfaction that I gotby me going to the library and
doing it, but that's me.
Now, my kids probably won't knowthat because they were not
raised that way.
They're just raised in the.
Internet generation, and theyjust think like, even if I ask
(24:20):
my son something, Hey, what doyou think about this?
He's always fact checking me.
Like he say, Hey, no kidding.
That's not what you said, dad.
It's according to this.
I thought, oh, great.
I would not fact check my ownparents, but he's fact checking
me, so he's putting me on aspot.
So, and again, you, you can'tbelieve what's in the internet,
but people are fact checking andis it a good thing where there
(24:41):
is that efficiency level?
Uh.
But again, it, you are losingsome social skills.
Like I said, back in the day,the doctor, his bedside manner
would've been impeccable.
I mean, he's going in his buggyhorse cartt to the la to the
house of the patient, welldressed, you know, he's spending
time with the patient.
(25:03):
Uh, and now we just do itthrough telehealth where I could
be wearing shorts underneath,uh, my right.
But the only thing, the top halfof my body, and, you know.
Uh, so anyway, I'm just saying Idon't think it's something
that's going to, we can doanything about it.
We can really do something aboutourselves, be the change that
you can be.
If I feel there's a lack ofsocial interaction in my life,
(25:25):
uh, through work, I go to thelodge and I get all that back.
You know?
I mean, it's all about balancethough.
Yeah.
We often talk about the Masonicexperience as being a uniquely
analog experience, and yes, weuse technology.
Websites, socials, we're usingall of the, leveraging that to
(25:45):
the best of our ability, butthere really is remains to be
something to be said aboutputting our devices away.
Sure.
And reconnecting as friends andas brothers, and it really is
being sought out by a youngergeneration.
I continually have conversationswith young men that are
interested in finding a strongbond of authentic friendship.
(26:09):
They want community engagement.
They want to grow and evolve,become a better version of
themselves, and as much as theyspend time in front of Netflix
using the, using AI chat, GPT.
Mm-hmm.
None of that is replacing thatauthenticity Oh sure.
Of the human to humanconnection.
(26:33):
How big of a challenge in yourline of work is procrastination?
You see that a lot?
Yeah, like, uh, procrastinationis, uh, a big deal.
Uh, you tell somebody to dosomething that's for their own
health, like something simplelike go to the gym, eat right.
Uh, and there are a lot oftheories, like the mind gut
theory, stuff like that.
(26:53):
That's all positive.
I.
And, uh, drink less coffee orsomething for less.
And you can tell them that onlyso many times.
And then you talk to them againafter a month and they say, oh,
I'm here for my meds.
And they say, oh, did you do soand so?
Oh yeah, it's on my list.
And it's like, I just think, youknow, I'm telling this guy how
to, uh, or this lady, a person,how to improve their life.
(27:14):
But they're getting good advice,in my opinion, from me.
But they're not really listeningto me.
They just want thatpharmaceutical thing, which
again, is that immediategratification.
So it's almost like even thoughI'm giving them advice, I'm
having job security becausethese people could be easily
cured of their condition if theyfollowed me.
Advice, just like the dentisttelling you to brush your teeth
(27:35):
and floss to avoid cavities, andyou kind of do it half far,
half-heartedly, and then.
He's got a job there because youknow, you didn't floss that
well, you didn't brush yourteeth.
So procrastination again, uh, isit because there's too much
going on, like the, you don'thave enough hours in the day?
There's just so much stuff.
Even I personally, I like tospend some time in the gym, but
then when I come back I gottacatch up on, I.
(27:57):
Last of us on max or something.
I got this list of things thatI, long list.
Yeah, long list.
And I gotta spend some time withmy family.
I mean, I make sure that I don'tmiss that out.
And then there's the Masonicthing.
Suddenly somebody will say, Hey,do you wanna do the third
chamber lecture at an justsomething?
Uh oh.
Where do you do them?
There's a practice on a weekendor something.
You have to balance all that.
(28:17):
And I try my best to put masonrythere somewhere.
But remember there's the cabletoe.
And it's all there.
It's just that, uh, how wouldyou define a cable toe for a
listener who is a non mason?
Okay, so the cable toe, again,in my opinion, it's, it's a very
philosophical term.
It's basically this thing that'swound around you when you go
(28:38):
through your degrees and it saysthat it, there's a pull from it.
The pool indicates the, yourresponsibilities and I'm, you
can correct me if wrong, like toyour family, to your country, to
your job, stuff like that.
So they say that Masonry shouldnot ever replace that.
Now seeing that the minute youbecome a Mason, the next thing
you know, hey, do you want tojoin the shrine?
(28:59):
Do you wanna join the York RiteScottish Rite?
You are inundated with so manythings, and if you don't say
that secret word no, then youjust, the thing is, once you
start doing it and you start,you show that you're really good
at the de the floor work, andyou'll be called more often and
you keep seeing this usualsuspect.
The same guy is always doingthis.
(29:19):
Uh, so there is a cable toe, butagain, I.
Are we really respecting thecable toe?
Because I feel sometimes that,boy, I mean, people are like
pulling me in this way and thatway and, uh, I'm still married
and all that, but, you know, Iwouldn't sacrifice my social
life for the sake of masonry.
But I feel there are some Brenwho might have overstepped their
(29:40):
thing and not, uh, well, they'reout of, out of balance, out of
the Yeah.
It's a, and it's a fine line.
You don't wanna say no all ofthe time, but how to achieve
that balance between prioritiesof family.
Career for other hobbies.
Yeah, yeah.
And still staying active withinthe Masonic experience.
So what you said is alsointeresting.
(30:01):
So there is a term that one ofmy associates, his name is Mike
Miller from Lake Heritage Lodge.
He told me that, does Masonrycompliment you or does it define
you?
so you could look at it like, ismasonry just something you also
do or is it a lot of what you doand.
I see some brothers who are likesuper involved.
(30:22):
Maybe they just have more timeor they're retired.
But, uh, I mean, I think it to,to each zone, I just feel that
masonry should be there.
But it shouldn't be like anobsession or something if, you
know, I don't want you people tolose.
They are focused on what they'rehere for.
You know, you're here if youhave a family and a job and all
(30:42):
that, you know, still focus onthat.
That's an interesting take.
We often talk about other topicswithin the lodge setting that
would be meaningful andimpactful to our members.
I alluded to this earlier, thatprospects that come to us
(31:02):
seeking more information reallywant to find a level of
authentic friendship mentoring,whether they're the mentor or
the mentee, I.
The community engagement frontof how do I, we get asked this
all the time.
How can I give back to thegreater good?
As a result of that, theconversations continue to happen
(31:24):
across the state with lodges.
What else are we offering as faras Masonic education, and
sometimes I've called it non-MSeducation, which some brothers
have corrected me in saying,well, it's all, it's all Masonic
education.
When we look at things thoughthat are off topic a bit.
Financial planning, leadershipskills, mental health, talking
(31:47):
about addiction, PTSD, effectivecommunication.
There's a big difference betweensaying the words, saying the
word brotherhood and have it bean abstract concept versus a.
Brotherhood of knowing what'sgoing on in each other's lives.
(32:08):
When it's time to celebrate.
Yes, we celebrate good things,graduations, kids born,
grandkids born.
But on the other side of that,when life happens, people are
struggling having mental healthcrisis or addiction loss, and
I'm, I'm reaching an age where Irecently at the store, I bought
(32:29):
the six pack of sympathy cards.
Man, it, it's just.
No one prepares us for that.
No.
There's a big difference in thelodge between saying all of the
words, or living them.
Mm-hmm.
In a very meaningful friend tofriend and brother to brother
(32:52):
context.
And that's something that Ai.
Or sitting in front of a screenor sitting isolated in one's
home or apartment, just there'sno comparison.
Oh yeah, you're right.
And, uh, what you said is veryenlightening.
So when I joined Masonry about12 years ago, I would hear about
somebody mentioning that Mr.
So and So Brother So-and-Sopassed to the Celestial Lodge
(33:14):
about, and we all stood up andhad a moment of silence.
And I didn't know who thatperson was because I was new to
Masonry.
But now, for the last few years.
I've known those people.
Like I was with a brother who,you know, he was in his late
eighties or early nineties andthey passed away.
And now I'm sensing that senseof mortality that I've known
(33:35):
these people, they've passedaway and they're almost like a
family.
So when you say about those sixpack sympathy cards, uh, I'm
also of that age where I knowthese people and I'm just
thinking.
Boy, I miss that brother.
And when you say ai, yeah, Imean there are some things that
AI can never, like the, thehandshake, the pat on the back,
(33:56):
you know, just that feeling ofcomradery.
You can't just get that throughai.
AI is currently doing a lot forus in our daily lives.
It will continue to do that, butthe one thing that AI will never
do is replace the human to humanconnection.
(34:18):
Definitely.
I.
Anyone who listens to ourpodcast knows that we like to
pose a couple random questionsin an effort to get to know you
better.
You're laughing already, Sujit.
What is the dumbest feature ofthe human body?
I.
(34:39):
I think it's the nose because mepersonally, I would, I told my
wife that, um, I don't think Ican smell that well.
She would say, oh, what do youthink of that?
And there's some perfumers.
And I said, no, I think I've gota, I don't think I can smell it.
So I told her, should I applyfor one of those handicap uh,
stickers?
And she said, what do you meanno?
I said, I can't smell, so I havea handicap.
(35:00):
Right.
I mean, why is it only blindpeople and deaf people that get
that thing?
I should get that.
So I don't know if I'm.
Olfactory challenged something,but I'm not a very thing.
So I don't know.
I think the nose is good forbreathing, but I meant besides
that, you know, people spend alot of money trying to get a
rhinoplasty, trying to, tryingto modify it.
Yeah.
And I don't know, maybe thegrand architect, the universe
(35:23):
should have come up with someother way to breathe through the
skin or something.
What do you think could actuallyunite most people?
Good question.
So I was gonna go down theroute, uh, route of saying a
belief in a higher power.
(35:43):
But if you know anything fromthe 10th degree, usually it's
belief in higher power thatsometimes is the cause of most
of the wars in society.
But there is always a, a commonthread among all these great
religions.
And I'm not saying I'm aphilosopher who can unite all of
'em, but.
I think the only way to unitepeople is to just be more
(36:08):
secular and open and not, uh,you know, be culturally
sensitive because everyone, likeeven, you know, I'm from a
different part of the world.
Originally when I came here, theMasons, the brothers, they were
the most.
Inviting people I've met, I, I,I tried to join the jcs, the
Road Track Club, the LEO Club,and I thought they were all
(36:29):
friendly, but, uh, none.
I mean, I even joined Mensa.
It sound like I'm trying topush, I.
Put myself on a pedestal.
Again, it's the Higher IQSociety.
I went to a MENSA meeting and Isaw a bunch of guides and I saw
this guy, and I'm not making funof them.
He had very strong body odor, sothat's where finally Oh, I see.
Well, your nose.
Yeah, my nose was working and Ijust casually looked at him and
(36:49):
said, Hey, I.
What do you do for a living?
Just, you know, to break theice.
And he looked at me and he had asmile and he says, oh, just
because I have a high IQ doesn'tmean I'm employable.
And he started laughing and Ithought, oh, so that's actually
a negative, a deterrent.
The higher your iq, the moreyou're gonna complain to your
boss and you'd probably lose thejob.
I thought, this is not helping.
(37:09):
So, but when I joined Masonry, Imet guys from all walks of life
from, you know, uh, you know,like a construction guy all the
way to a lawyer.
And they're all, they're all onthe level.
So I'm kind of blanket on yourquestion.
Oh, how do we unite people?
Masonry would be a great one tounite people because we are all
on the level, but beyond that, Imean we just have to break down
(37:30):
the walls and be culturallysensitive.
Again, I don't know how that'sgonna happen if we keep
isolating and using, again, AIto, we need to probably get
together.
But again, when you have peopletalking to each other.
There could be again, uh,frustration and people want
their own agenda, but the reasonis when you mention the word
(37:52):
complaint, why somebodycomplaining, there's probably a
reason why he's complaining.
If you can understand the reasonwhy he's complaining, then you
will also be em empathetic orsensitive to that issue.
Usually they have somethinghappened earlier in the day that
probably ticked off that person,not he's honestly angry at you,
so.
(38:12):
But beyond that, no.
I'm, I'm not a philosopher or apolitician.
I have no power.
I just wish that people would bemore open-minded.
That's your your opinion though.
Yeah.
More open-minded.
Learn from each other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Learn.
Don't be so, you know, quick tojudge.
Like try to figure out like, whydid he say that?
Why is he thinking that way?
Try to understand one another.
It's something we don't do verywell in our isolated world.
(38:34):
Yeah.
And on behind the screen, onsocial media and lash out.
You don't agree with me?
And I don't agree with you.
So we, yeah.
Yeah.
We just can't be friends.
Yeah.
Uh, I don't, I don't, then Idon't just hit a like or a
dislike on social media.
Now, here's this thing that Iwas told by somebody, is that
most people, most people in theworld are good people.
So we don't wanna say that everyperson we meet is, you know, you
(38:58):
gotta be kind of suspicious.
People are good.
I mean.
Just, you know, the cup isalways half empty in my opinion.
Or maybe three fourth.
I mean, I said it the other wayaround, is three fourth full and
one fourth empty.
You and I are old enough toremember meeting people that
perhaps we knew right away thatwe're probably not gonna be the
(39:20):
best of friends.
Yeah.
We didn't agree on certainthings, but that doesn't mean
that we.
Shut them out or isolate or justcompletely avoid that person.
But that feels like the vibe oftoday, that behind that screen,
social media, if you and Iaren't for and against all the
same things, then mm-hmm.
No way we're, we're done.
(39:43):
Yeah.
And I think social media givesyou that, uh, you know, it's
made, made like a cowardly wayof, because you're not telling
it to their face.
You're just posting it outthere.
And you know, it's kinda like,maybe it could be somebody who's
thousands of miles away, butyou're putting like, oh, screw
you, or put a thumbs down.
And maybe you had some otheragenda before it, that's what
(40:05):
ticked you off there.
But, uh, I, yeah, I, I, I seethat all the time.
I'm on Facebook, I'm onInstagram once in a while.
I'm not addicted to it, but Isee somebody make a comment and
sometimes they kind of likehijack my own comment and make
it look like I'm sayingsomething stupid and just like a
neutral, sarcastic comment thatgets misunderstood.
And, but that's the way theworld is.
(40:26):
And I find that difficultbecause people constantly.
Use social media to affirm theirbeliefs.
Yeah.
I'm for this, I'm against that.
It's platitudes.
It's just talking.
Yeah.
There's a big difference betweensaying, oh, I align myself with
this.
Or actually going out and doingconstructive, productive work on
(40:49):
behalf of someone or someone.
Someone in need.
Mm-hmm.
Anyone can say the words, butwho's out and, and I don't, I
don't mean for that to soundlike to do something radical or
disruptive.
Mm-hmm.
But just seeing an opportunity,seizing an opportunity, and
that's what I love about thecraft.
Okay.
(41:10):
Where do we see thoseopportunities to give back to
someone in need?
And it doesn't have to begrandiose.
Small things are impactful too.
Yeah.
Coming back to what you justsaid.
You know, some people just havestrong opinions and that's the,
probably the sa, the easiest wayto put it out there because if
you go and tell that to somebodyin the face, it could end up in
(41:30):
a debate, an argument.
Maybe even a slugging a fist orthey won't want to talk at all.
Yeah.
Face to face.
Face to face.
But then you do it over there.
You can just block somebody, youcan write back and you know, and
again, it depends on how muchstamina you have.
I've had somebody, people, youknow, cyber bullying somebody
and you just ignore it.
(41:51):
Uh, but beyond that, yes, Ithink Masonry teaches us, uh, to
be civil, I would think.
And I think that's what's keptus in business all of these
years that we are apolitical.
Non-sectarian for those wholisten to our podcast that are
not masons have to have a beliefin God and a higher power.
He can't be an atheist, but ourmembers are Christians, Muslim,
(42:14):
Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu.
I always use Benjamin Franklinas an example, was more of a
deist.
Oh yeah.
But we do not argue religion.
Mm-hmm.
Or politics when we aretogether.
Now, if we could only encourageour members who have a
proclivity to do that on socialmedia to stop doing that, that
would be very helpful.
Yeah.
(42:35):
isn't it a great place to go toget to know friends and
brothers?
Definitely.
Yeah.
Void of those two divisivetopics.
Yeah.
And coming back to the thingabout our brothers, now, of
course I believe in freedom ofexpression as long as it's, uh,
not.
Detrimental.
You're not trying to totally,you know, insult somebody.
So I know that sometimes theysay, well, when you do that in
(42:56):
the social, in cyberspace cansay you are also representing
masonry, or whatever it is.
Uh, we can only tell them somany times, but it is freedom
of, you know, it is.
Yeah.
And people are free to.
Say or share whatever they wantto.
The question comes up though,why would you want to, why would
(43:17):
you want to alienate 50% or moreof your friends, your family,
your colleagues on social mediaand for what?
So you can have that moment offeeling self-righteous.
You can get on that hill at thatproverbial hill and.
Bask in your glory.
(43:37):
No, so that's a good question.
It's almost rhetorical Now, thereason you and I are asking the
question is because we don'tthink like that, those people,
so we don't get our juices, youknow, or our adrenaline rush out
of that.
There are some people who getthat, they just are that type of
people.
No, maybe there's a personalityvariable and all that it, you
know, is it because we'regetting older and we're not old,
(44:01):
but we're not 30.
So somebody said that if you'renot controversial, you are.
you are irrelevant.
So it's kinda like some peopletake that literally, like if I
don't create, if I don't stirthe pot, nobody knows who I am.
I'm getting this.
It's easy to get notoriety thanto do something positive and
(44:21):
get.
You know, an ap, uh, an, youknow, applauded or an applause
for that.
It's easier to be, you know, tobe like, I'm not saying I'm not
justifying this, but it's easyto be a criminal and get fame,
infa be infamous than to befamous and do something good.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, you can do 10 goodthings and just do one really
(44:42):
bad thing, and it's the badthing that people remember
before and they forget all the.
So again, I don't know if somepeople just like that weird
attention thing.
Is it a personality thing?
Very ego driven.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So many influencers that are 20million followers that are just
keeping up though this aura,they're keeping up.
There's, it's all an act.
(45:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Until the reality will finallycome along and Yeah.
Like when you hear about thoseviral videos, usually what are
they, something that's beyondhuman experience or some, it's
not something nice.
It's not like.
You know, something that we, oh,there was a beautiful sunrise.
Why would we wanna watch a viralvideo of the sunrise?
Yeah.
You know, I'll date myself witha song lyric.
(45:28):
A mentor reminded me, I can'tremember who it was.
This was it, Billy Joel.
I had my pointless point ofview, Uhhuh.
But life went on no matter whowas wrong or who was right.
Oh, And he didn't stop the fire.
You remember that one?
That was a couple years afterthat one.
Yeah.
Yes.
I heard he can't sing anymore,right?
(45:48):
He, uh, yes, I saw a headlineabout him.
Yeah.
He is in poor health.
I was shocked to see he's, is helike 76 now?
Yeah.
I didn't know.
He was only that old.
I thought he was much older.
Did you Oh, classic.
Yeah.
So what's next for you on thework front?
Family front?
Do you have big plans, bigprojects in your near future?
(46:10):
Yeah.
I'm trying to be humble.
My son is graduating high schoolany minute now.
This is the grad season.
I think it's tomorrow actually.
Yeah.
And then he's going to the UMD,university of Minnesota Duluth
for engineering.
So he's kind of following in my,in my father's footsteps, his
grandfather.
Uh, and me personally, no.
I mean, I'll continue doing whatI have to do, trying to, uh, you
(46:32):
know, help people with mentalhealth issues in the area.
Um, continue my masonic, uh,pathway and do good deeds to
others so that, you know,hopefully the world is in a
better place when I leave.
You have a very unique.
(46:53):
Opportunity to be truly givingback to those in need, the
people that you care for andprovide that guidance is, I'm
sure frustrating as it can betime and again, you shared some
of their procrastination or someof their delayed, Hey, just,
just fix it for me now.
But, but big picture, you'redoing great work.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.
(47:16):
Sji.
Varma, thank you for being withus in studio today.
Great pleasure, Reed.
Call me again if you need me.
I will do that.
I appreciate you and until nexttime I.
Why do we love to complain?
(00:06):
Okay, that's a really loadedquestion.
It can go several ways.
So now I wanna say that I'mprobably not, uh, high on the
complaining side and I'mprobably, you know, putting
myself in a pedestal.
But yeah, I think we like tocomplain because.
You know, we can never besatisfied.
I think human beings are always,there's this desire to be
(00:29):
creative and innovative.
So that's a good thing.
So no matter how successful thegovernment is or society is, we
always want something more.
And how do you get that?
You always complain.
So, you know, like say, let'suse example of the internet, you
know, now we have 5G or six GI,I still hear, I have my kids
complain and say, how comeyou're so slow?
(00:50):
I mean, come on.
I mean, 10 years ago I had to dothe a OL dial up and they don't
remember all that stuff.
They don't even know the soundeffect, do they?
Oh yeah.
They don't remember that.
And I can imagine, like myparents, uh, you know, they did
a lot of stuff that I probablynever did.
Like, you know, they knew how todo woodworking or fix a car.
Now we are complaining when wego to the car dealership and
(01:13):
say, oh, this guy's taking somuch time.
Why is he charging so muchmoney?
So I think it's just a.
It's just part of our thing.
No matter how much we achieve,the target keeps moving and I
think that's a positive thing.
It's a sign of evolution.
We want to progress.
And you know that saying noprogress must progress.
So I guess complaining could bea good thing too.
(01:35):
I was recently in a coffee shopwaiting for a friend and brother
to arrive.
I.
Everywhere around me, everyconversation was so negative, it
was just loud and not a singleperson in that moment seemed to
be sharing something they werehappy about, that something good
(01:55):
had happened.
We'll get to that in greaterdetail in a little bit.
Our guest today was born inIndia.
Grew up in Kuwait where he liveduntil having finished high
school.
He then returned to India forhigher education and went to
medical school there aftermedical school relocated to
(02:15):
Vancouver where he did afellowship in psychiatry at the
University of British Columbia,which was followed up with a
psychiatry residency at theUniversity of Texas in Houston.
After Texas.
It was a relocation from theLone Star state to the North
Star State.
He lived in Hibbing for threeyears and then moved south to
(02:37):
the Twin Cities where he haslived for 16 years.
He is also a pass master of LakeHarriet Lodge, number 2, 7 7 in
Minneapolis.
Welcome, Sujit Varma.
Welcome, Reid.
Thanks for having me.
You own a private practiceclinic called Sci-fi TMS in
Edina, and you practice as apsychiatrist?
Yeah.
Tell us more.
(02:57):
Yeah, and I'm glad you pronounceit right.
So it's spelled P-S-Y-F-I.
And it sounds like sci-fi,almost like science fiction, but
we are trying to not make a punon that.
It's psych psychiatric fidelity.
Acronym, but we do do sciencefiction, uh, fact not fiction.
So, uh, if you wanna know whatthe practice, yes, it's like a
(03:19):
regular clinic.
Um, we see people with, uh,behavior problems, mental health
issues.
We prescribe, we prescribemedications, we offer therapy.
We also offer something calledTMS.
It's in the title TranscranialMagnetic Stimulation, not the
Metal Society or Toyota MotorServices.
Uh, it's a newer technique totreat, uh, depression, obsessive
(03:42):
compulsive disorder, smokingcessation, anxiety, migraines
among other things.
And we also offer othertreatments like ketamine for,
again, treatment resistantdepression among other options.
What are some of the best orworst areas that you focus on
(04:03):
that you, that you have to byvirtue of someone's condition or
when they come in for treatmentand for help?
Well, the best would be what Iwould let, definitely wanna see
all the time, but they're sohealthy, I can only see them
once year.
So that would be somebody with amild case of anxiety.
And anxiety is the commonest,uh, medical condition after I
(04:24):
think.
Osis, which is bad breath orgingivitis.
Uh, so those patients probablyjust need to have seen once year
they do some kind of therapy.
Yoga, tai Chi, they're on a lowdose of medication.
Those are the best cases.
Worst cases, we talk about theclassic psychiatric diagnosis
like schizophrenia, which is achronic, debilitating mental
(04:44):
illness or bipolar, can also bepretty crippling.
Some of them are on socialsecurity disability, but the
worst kind of patient, and I'mnot trying to judge anybody, is
somebody with some kinds ofdisorder because.
Remember your question aboutcomplaining.
I mean, these are patients thatno matter what I might try to do
for them, they're alwayscomplaining about my service or
(05:05):
the cost of the medications, orwhy are they doing the therapy?
Sometimes the complaining, theprocrastinating or reveling in
maybe making a competition outof that perceived Yeah,
definitely.
I mean, I'm always up for achallenge.
I never.
Try to get rid of a patient justbecause they are, pardon my use
(05:28):
of this word, but a pain in theneck.
I mean, they are seeing mebecause they have challenging
problems and I'm probably thelast person who can help them.
I, in fact, I'm probably thebest friend.
Most of these people aredivorced or have very low social
support.
They're lonely.
They're in a group home.
So, uh, they can complain to me,but I don't take it personal.
(05:49):
And I try my best to.
Offer them something that, uh,you know, is suitable to the
condition with my means.
Of course.
How much have you seen anxietyincrease as something you're
addressing in the last fewyears?
Is it really, is that on therise?
Is that the top?
(06:10):
Yeah, like I said, anxiety isprobably the commonest
psychological condition.
It's not necessarily that theywould come to somebody like me,
a professional.
Most people will treat anxietywith their own versions like.
You can go to a bar, have a fewdrinks.
You can, in Minnesota, it'slegal to smoke cannabis and you
know, go to a gummy store.
So there's a lot of non-healthyways to deal with anxiety, and
(06:34):
only even it starts gettingworse and worse.
Do they come to me?
But what I've seen, if you wantto.
Have an academic answer.
Since COVID, there's been anincrease in two conditions.
One is attention disorder orwhat we call A DHD.
There's been an increasedawareness of that, and I have a
whole theory about that.
And even an increased awarenessof autism is that again, because
(06:57):
of we are just being moresensitive to it and we are
better ways of diagnosing it, oris it false representation
through things like socialmedia?
Which can be informative, butalso can give you false
information.
What do you attribute theattention deficit to?
Is it one thing?
Is it several factors playinginto that?
(07:18):
Yeah.
Good question.
So there's a whole, uh.
You know, multiple factors thatcan affect that.
Now, if you are working on afarm or you live in a rural
place where there's lessstimulation from social media,
wifi, stuff like that, listeningto a podcast like this, you
probably, I.
May not have a DHD if you haveit, because you are just busy
(07:40):
milking a cow and doing physicalstuff.
Nothing wrong with that.
But now the pressure of highschool in urban areas, getting
to college, getting low, I mean,it's just the pressure is so
high on young people these daysthat A DHD will start becoming
more and noticeable and you arepressured to perform.
At a higher level than what youneed to.
(08:02):
It's just times they arechanging, as Bob Dylan would've
said.
The other thing also is, again,there's so many distractions out
there.
Like now we have Netflix andYouTube and Hulu.
Even.
I have difficulty keep you upwith all that.
I got so many shows I gottawatch.
The other thing also is postCOVID, we became a little bit
more sedentary, so guess what wedid?
(08:22):
We did a lot of Zoom meetings.
Now that also could increase ADHD.
You're just sitting in front ofa camera.
You know, eight hours a dayversus, you know, you're, you're
driving to work, you are goingout.
So there is that thing where youare more sedentary.
You could become more A DHD justby virtue of your lifestyle
choices.
Also, awareness of A DHD, again,through social media.
(08:46):
Uh, but there is also a falsething, like TikTok sometimes
just promotes a DHD, like, it'slike having anxiety, but it's
not, oh, so.
Oh, they, they do.
They, uh, I haven't watched someof these videos, but I've been
told through some of mycolleagues that they are
promoting things like, just takea pill for A DHD.
And the problem with it is thosepills are highly regulated.
(09:08):
They're called stimulants.
Examples include Adderall orRitalin, and some of them are
converted into drugs like methor ice.
So there is a correlationbetween a controlled substance
that is meant for A DHD and adrug that can be abused.
Just to get euphoric or high.
(09:29):
How often do you encounter aclient?
A patient who makes therealization that I have a
cocktail or two, this isbasically like ingesting a
carcinogen.
Well, it is a carcinogen.
It's going to have the oppositeeffect initially.
It feels good.
Yeah.
Feels maybe even out a littlebit.
Sure.
(09:49):
But, but long that, that's not agreat avenue.
Oh yeah.
And I get many, use the wordcarcinogen.
You probably meant somethingthat causes cancer.
Uh, maybe you meant more likenarcotic or something like that,
that has an abuse potential.
So yeah, I have patients that,um, I.
I would say maybe once or twicea month at least.
I have some random patient whosays, oh, I'm here to see you
(10:10):
for anxiety.
And I said, okay, sure.
Let's talk about that and I'mgonna give you this medication
for anxiety.
He said, oh, by the other, bythe way, my, I spoke to my
neighbor the other day and hegave me this drug called, and I
knew what he is gonna say calledAdderall, and it just took care
of anxiety.
And I thought, okay, you knowwhat?
That doesn't help anxiety.
That just made you feel a littleeuphoric.
(10:32):
And maybe you have a DHD, butnow we talk about a different
thing.
So I do have people like that.
They just do their own thing.
They go on Doc to Google, uh,TikTok, Reddit.
And so that's a problem.
I am competing with all thoseother, uh, false prophets, if
you wanna call it on socialmedia.
And it's very hard becausepeople sometimes believe them
rather than somebody with adegree.
(10:53):
So that is there.
The self-diagnosis on WebMD andotherwise is a real thing, but
an obvious challenge.
Reddit and Dr.
Google.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those things that, uh, youmentioned COVID briefly, and
it's come up frequently aboutour society's battle with
loneliness.
(11:14):
I think it was in 2023, the USDepartment of Health and Human
Services put out a statement.
About society's currentcondition.
That said, we're in a publichealth crisis of loneliness, of
lack of connection andisolation.
There's a friendship recessionthese days.
Mm-hmm.
(11:35):
Wall Street Journal put out lastyear.
A report and a statement.
One in five men in the US whoare not married or in a
relationship said they did nothave any close friends at all.
None.
That's sad.
Yeah.
Did you, did you join afraternity like ours in, That is
(11:57):
actually something on my list offor us to talk about today is
I've, in my travels, haveshared.
Replica.
It's an app.
It's spelled R-E-P-L-I-K-A.
Okay.
It's labeled as the AICompanion.
The AI Companion.
Who cares?
Always here to listen and talk,always on your side.
(12:18):
Now, this app known as Replica,it's used basically as a virtual
friend or a sibling, and in mytravels, when I ask, guess how
many users are on Replica it,it's something like 25 million.
Oh.
People wanting to be heard.
Basically just wanting someoneto talk to.
(12:40):
And when we, and when we thinkabout that, the takeaway,
countless men, people in theworld recognize what we do as
Freemasons they are approachinglodges with interest in possibly
learning.
They want to be around others ofintegrity.
Values.
True.
A commitment to communityengagement.
The tenets of our profession, aswe say in Freemasonry or the,
(13:03):
the foundation of our values,our core values are being sought
out now more than ever in thisisolated world.
Yeah, I think this is a greattime to be a Freemason.
In fact, uh, I think that, uh,it wasn't for Freemasonry when I
would be like that.
Looking for replica ai or doesthat surprise you?
(13:24):
25 million people that use thisvirtual.
Friends.
Yeah.
And I mean, I'm surprised, butI'm also not surprised.
I just think that's the waysociety's going.
I mean, we are reaching thisphase where even me, what I do,
I, I've heard of AI therapy, soI'm not a therapist, I'm a
prescriber, I'm a md, but I havecolleagues that do just talk
(13:45):
therapy and there is apossibility that in the future
their job would be obsolete.
You could have an, you know,like a.
Like an AI generated image thatlooks like a real person doing
therapy and being so, you know,it's, you could have somebody
trained.
I know they say that, but youneed a human being for the real
(14:07):
empathy and the warmth.
But oh my gosh.
I mean, the way technology'sgoing, there's a lot of things
that, uh, it's kinda like, uh,you remember, I mean, I'm dating
myself.
There was a time when there werethree people in the cockpit.
Off the plane, there was thepilot, the copilot, and the
flight engineer.
And now we don't have the flightengineer.
(14:27):
I mean, is anybody complainingabout it?
It's like that.
I mean, does anybody evennotice?
Yeah.
Didn't even notice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And even in medicine, there's alot of things that, uh, have
gone away.
A lot of people don't know isthat, and I know they see, oh,
I, I would like to see somebodyof flesh in blood, but guess
what's happening now?
My patients are not alwaysseeing me in person.
They're seeing me throughtelehealth.
(14:49):
It could be all the way inInternational Falls, three and a
half hours away from Edina, butthey're seeing me now.
There is an advantage to thatThey are getting, if you want to
call a high quality care fromthe Twin Cities in the in
International Falls, I couldeven send them a prescription to
a local Walgreens Inn.
They're not, they're not wastingany time driving down, coming
(15:10):
back.
There's no anxiety there.
They can get good quality carewhere they are.
And gone are the days where thedoctor got on his horse or buggy
and drove to somebody's house,did something, and then the, the
lady at the house would make apie and say, here's your copay.
You know?
Right.
No interest is back.
So, uh, that is, you know, itwas so nice back then, like
(15:32):
Little House on the Prairie orwhatever.
But now we are reaching thisphase where we are slowly
isolating.
We are in these jobs where, uh,you know, we can just sit in
our, the basement of a house andI.
Even be the CEO of a company forall I know.
And, that's where Masonry wouldbe a great thing.
I, I, I think apart from mymarriage and my kids, masonry is
(15:53):
the best thing that I've everdone in my life.
And every time I walk intolodge, even I haven't seen a
brother for several years, hecome and say, Hey, Suge, how is
it?
And I feel so, and when I comeback home, nobody wants to gimme
a hug and, you know, embrace meas much at these brothers.
So it's very exciting.
And in lodge also people.
Stretch the head.
So maybe masonry is thesolution, at least for the
(16:17):
brothers who are listening tothis.
When we are in the relationshipbusiness, we are a face-to-face
organization.
If, if technology takes overcompletely in the fraternal
setting, that will not be good.
Yeah.
I know there's a fine linebetween amassing.
Books and information through AIto leverage that technology for
(16:42):
medical treatment orpsychological treatment for a
number of different things.
Yeah, but that must be a fineline between technology versus
speaking to the machine whenyou, when you're doing a
telehealth.
Appointment with someone inInternational Falls, it's still
you, it's still Dr.
Jit.
It's not just speaking to analgorithm that's Oh yeah, de
(17:04):
definitely like a bot.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wait, is that where this mightbe going someday?
Yeah.
So it's kinda like, uh, a gameof chess.
Now I heard there's somethingcalled Deep thought or
something, or, uh.
Watson, there was a thing where,you know, in jeopardy he could
answer every single question,and then there was a thing that,
so now what if you have all themedical algorithms inputted into
(17:26):
this AI and somebody says, Hey,doctor ai, I have this headache
and I got this.
And then the algorithm just runsthrough, oh, you've got this
kind of migraine just based onyour symptoms.
I'm not saying that I'm, uh, I'mfor it or against it, but it is
coming in the next five, 10years, it'll be more common.
In fact, even in my professionnow, there is an AI where you
(17:49):
just look at the screen and theAI will tell you, tell the, so
the AI can be used to help thephysician.
It'll tell you what kind ofneurological prompt that is just
by looking at the patient'sface.
For example, there's a conditionin psychiatry called TD Tardive
Dyskinesia, which is a abnormalmovement of the lips and the
eyes, and usually we as humanbeings, we might overlook it
(18:12):
while we are doing theinterview, but an a computer or
an AI would look at thatperson's face while you're doing
the interview and say, Hey, heblinked only 12 times a minute,
and that.
Means that you might want tolook at whether he has that
condition.
Tardive dyskinesia.
So it's, uh, so AI can assist usjust like how we have x-rays and
MRIs to help the physician or,so I don't wanna say that AI
(18:36):
should be, you know, banned orsomething.
I think it'll, it'll help, butunfortunately we don't keep up
with it.
It is something that's very hardto, you know, to overcome.
Kind of like.
There are certain jobs that arenot there around anymore, like a
hood.
There are no meter MAs.
Have you heard that term?
I, I can date myself.
Yeah.
Okay, I remember that.
(18:56):
Yes.
Yeah, because it's all, you justgo there, you pay your credit
card, stuff like that.
There are a few jobs.
You don't see the milkman comingto your house and delivering
milk.
I mean, do people miss that guy?
I mean, unless you live in arural place.
So it is something that we haveto live with.
Uh, but then they's stillmasonry 300 years plus.
(19:18):
recently, a friend of ourspicked up their daughter at
college.
The year ended, and our friendsshared that they were in the
dorm and they couldn't believehow quiet all the doors were
closed every room, each residentin this dorm?
Mm-hmm.
Or.
Very different than when you andI were in college in that common
(19:41):
area.
Outside of the dorm rooms iswhere everyone congregated and
talked.
Probably wasted a lot of time.
Should have been studying,doing, yeah, more productive and
constructive things.
But even in the collegeexperience, our friends were
just.
Shocked at how they assumed thatthe whole floor had vacated.
Yeah.
And everyone was still there.
Yeah.
But nobody was out socializing.
(20:03):
Mm-hmm.
We're so even in that, I don'tknow if that's post COVID, if
that's just the way of theworld.
Now we are on our device all thetime.
When you, when I, we werewatching the NBA playoffs and
they go to commercial.
Everyone is on their phone.
Like, why are you even at agame?
It's true spending an exorbitantamount of money to be there when
(20:25):
everyone's staring at theirphone.
Yeah, no, that's a goodobservation.
I remember like 10, 15 yearsago, I, uh, I actually once
caught a Greyhound bus seven inTexas and it was like for four
hours.
And I remember talking to theguy who was with me, he was like
a veteran.
He was, uh.
I think he was in the Gulf Warand I, I, I remember that
(20:46):
conversation so well.
But nowadays, like when you'rein a plane, do you talk to the
guy next to you?
You're probably watching, uh,you know, something on the back
of the chair in front of you.
You got your wifi again.
Uh, I think we just have ashorter attention span.
Again, that's about a DHD.
We are, uh, human beings arejust changing the way we are,
(21:08):
you know, push button, get whatI want.
Yeah.
And we want quick immediategratification now.
I recently heard an influencerauthor type talk about
impatience, speaking of, and heshared that yes, a lot of people
these days are really, reallyimpatient, and he himself
(21:29):
admitted, he's impatient.
He doesn't want to preach aboutit, but it's, it's become worse.
Because we're so used to thepower of our phones, our
computers, we think everything,we're expecting everything to
happen quickly and instantly.
You mentioned this earlier, ifwe have to wait five seconds to
get a piece of information onthe internet, oh my god, it's
taking so long.
(21:49):
Yeah.
But he made the point 20, 30years ago you would've had to go
to the library.
Mm-hmm.
Would've taken an hour to dosomething like that.
So you, you learned how todevelop patients to find things.
People are so impatient becauseit's all so quick and easy and
powerful.
Now he made the point.
(22:12):
You want to be able to slowthings down though.
You want to have the ability tosay, if this is gonna take me an
hour to learn, if I have tospend time practicing studying,
if it's tedious that I'm okaywith that.
He talked about embracing thatpain that's involved.
It's funny that delaying hispain, but learning anything,
(22:34):
developing any type of skillinvolves the pain, I suppose, of
patients.
You have kids in school?
Yeah.
How do they, is it, how do youmanage that with, with that
instance?
I don't wanna wait for this.
I want it now.
Oh.
And I can just again, look backup on your own childhood.
I'm sure my parents, at thattime, television was just
(22:56):
becoming a big thing and theywould say, oh.
I think television is gonna rothis mind.
And then now we have, YouTube isgonna rot your mind.
Or TikTok, and I'm just making ajoke here, but imagine like 500
years ago when Gutenberginvented the book or printing
press, I'm sure there was someparent then who told, he said,
oh my God, books are gonna rotyour mind because you spent too
(23:17):
much time.
Yeah.
Spending time reading.
So it depends on what you mean.
Now again, I'm not againsttechnology.
There is good and bad.
We are becoming more efficient,like you said about the library
incident.
Like I remember you'd have to goto, I remember once looking up,
I was trying to research, forsome reason I was interested in
John f Kennedy's assassination,and this is like 15 years ago
(23:37):
when I was in Vancouver.
I went to the library and Ilooked up something that we
don't even see these days.
It was like a newspaper archivethat was on like a microfiche.
Microfiche, yeah.
Yeah.
And I had to see them.
I saw them, I thought, wow.
I think it was a Dallas Tribuneor something, and he said,
November 23rd and all, and Ithought, boy, if I had the
original copy of this newspaper,that would be a great thing to
have.
(23:58):
But now guess what?
You just go on Google, go toWikipedia.
You can see a picture, you canread about it.
It's like at your fingertips andyou don't, I don't know, I don't
get the satisfaction that I gotby me going to the library and
doing it, but that's me.
Now, my kids probably won't knowthat because they were not
raised that way.
They're just raised in the.
Internet generation, and theyjust think like, even if I ask
(24:20):
my son something, Hey, what doyou think about this?
He's always fact checking me.
Like he say, Hey, no kidding.
That's not what you said, dad.
It's according to this.
I thought, oh, great.
I would not fact check my ownparents, but he's fact checking
me, so he's putting me on aspot.
So, and again, you, you can'tbelieve what's in the internet,
but people are fact checking andis it a good thing where there
(24:41):
is that efficiency level?
Uh.
But again, it, you are losingsome social skills.
Like I said, back in the day,the doctor, his bedside manner
would've been impeccable.
I mean, he's going in his buggyhorse cartt to the la to the
house of the patient, welldressed, you know, he's spending
time with the patient.
(25:03):
Uh, and now we just do itthrough telehealth where I could
be wearing shorts underneath,uh, my right.
But the only thing, the top halfof my body, and, you know.
Uh, so anyway, I'm just saying Idon't think it's something
that's going to, we can doanything about it.
We can really do something aboutourselves, be the change that
you can be.
If I feel there's a lack ofsocial interaction in my life,
(25:25):
uh, through work, I go to thelodge and I get all that back.
You know?
I mean, it's all about balancethough.
Yeah.
We often talk about the Masonicexperience as being a uniquely
analog experience, and yes, weuse technology.
Websites, socials, we're usingall of the, leveraging that to
(25:45):
the best of our ability, butthere really is remains to be
something to be said aboutputting our devices away.
Sure.
And reconnecting as friends andas brothers, and it really is
being sought out by a youngergeneration.
I continually have conversationswith young men that are
interested in finding a strongbond of authentic friendship.
(26:09):
They want community engagement.
They want to grow and evolve,become a better version of
themselves, and as much as theyspend time in front of Netflix
using the, using AI chat, GPT.
Mm-hmm.
None of that is replacing thatauthenticity Oh sure.
Of the human to humanconnection.
(26:33):
How big of a challenge in yourline of work is procrastination?
You see that a lot?
Yeah, like, uh, procrastinationis, uh, a big deal.
Uh, you tell somebody to dosomething that's for their own
health, like something simplelike go to the gym, eat right.
Uh, and there are a lot oftheories, like the mind gut
theory, stuff like that.
(26:53):
That's all positive.
I.
And, uh, drink less coffee orsomething for less.
And you can tell them that onlyso many times.
And then you talk to them againafter a month and they say, oh,
I'm here for my meds.
And they say, oh, did you do soand so?
Oh yeah, it's on my list.
And it's like, I just think, youknow, I'm telling this guy how
to, uh, or this lady, a person,how to improve their life.
(27:14):
But they're getting good advice,in my opinion, from me.
But they're not really listeningto me.
They just want thatpharmaceutical thing, which
again, is that immediategratification.
So it's almost like even thoughI'm giving them advice, I'm
having job security becausethese people could be easily
cured of their condition if theyfollowed me.
Advice, just like the dentisttelling you to brush your teeth
(27:35):
and floss to avoid cavities, andyou kind of do it half far,
half-heartedly, and then.
He's got a job there because youknow, you didn't floss that
well, you didn't brush yourteeth.
So procrastination again, uh, isit because there's too much
going on, like the, you don'thave enough hours in the day?
There's just so much stuff.
Even I personally, I like tospend some time in the gym, but
then when I come back I gottacatch up on, I.
(27:57):
Last of us on max or something.
I got this list of things thatI, long list.
Yeah, long list.
And I gotta spend some time withmy family.
I mean, I make sure that I don'tmiss that out.
And then there's the Masonicthing.
Suddenly somebody will say, Hey,do you wanna do the third
chamber lecture at an justsomething?
Uh oh.
Where do you do them?
There's a practice on a weekendor something.
You have to balance all that.
(28:17):
And I try my best to put masonrythere somewhere.
But remember there's the cabletoe.
And it's all there.
It's just that, uh, how wouldyou define a cable toe for a
listener who is a non mason?
Okay, so the cable toe, again,in my opinion, it's, it's a very
philosophical term.
It's basically this thing that'swound around you when you go
(28:38):
through your degrees and it saysthat it, there's a pull from it.
The pool indicates the, yourresponsibilities and I'm, you
can correct me if wrong, like toyour family, to your country, to
your job, stuff like that.
So they say that Masonry shouldnot ever replace that.
Now seeing that the minute youbecome a Mason, the next thing
you know, hey, do you want tojoin the shrine?
(28:59):
Do you wanna join the York RiteScottish Rite?
You are inundated with so manythings, and if you don't say
that secret word no, then youjust, the thing is, once you
start doing it and you start,you show that you're really good
at the de the floor work, andyou'll be called more often and
you keep seeing this usualsuspect.
The same guy is always doingthis.
(29:19):
Uh, so there is a cable toe, butagain, I.
Are we really respecting thecable toe?
Because I feel sometimes that,boy, I mean, people are like
pulling me in this way and thatway and, uh, I'm still married
and all that, but, you know, Iwouldn't sacrifice my social
life for the sake of masonry.
But I feel there are some Brenwho might have overstepped their
(29:40):
thing and not, uh, well, they'reout of, out of balance, out of
the Yeah.
It's a, and it's a fine line.
You don't wanna say no all ofthe time, but how to achieve
that balance between prioritiesof family.
Career for other hobbies.
Yeah, yeah.
And still staying active withinthe Masonic experience.
So what you said is alsointeresting.
(30:01):
So there is a term that one ofmy associates, his name is Mike
Miller from Lake Heritage Lodge.
He told me that, does Masonrycompliment you or does it define
you?
so you could look at it like, ismasonry just something you also
do or is it a lot of what you doand.
I see some brothers who are likesuper involved.
(30:22):
Maybe they just have more timeor they're retired.
But, uh, I mean, I think it to,to each zone, I just feel that
masonry should be there.
But it shouldn't be like anobsession or something if, you
know, I don't want you people tolose.
They are focused on what they'rehere for.
You know, you're here if youhave a family and a job and all
(30:42):
that, you know, still focus onthat.
That's an interesting take.
We often talk about other topicswithin the lodge setting that
would be meaningful andimpactful to our members.
I alluded to this earlier, thatprospects that come to us
(31:02):
seeking more information reallywant to find a level of
authentic friendship mentoring,whether they're the mentor or
the mentee, I.
The community engagement frontof how do I, we get asked this
all the time.
How can I give back to thegreater good?
As a result of that, theconversations continue to happen
(31:24):
across the state with lodges.
What else are we offering as faras Masonic education, and
sometimes I've called it non-MSeducation, which some brothers
have corrected me in saying,well, it's all, it's all Masonic
education.
When we look at things thoughthat are off topic a bit.
Financial planning, leadershipskills, mental health, talking
(31:47):
about addiction, PTSD, effectivecommunication.
There's a big difference betweensaying the words, saying the
word brotherhood and have it bean abstract concept versus a.
Brotherhood of knowing what'sgoing on in each other's lives.
(32:08):
When it's time to celebrate.
Yes, we celebrate good things,graduations, kids born,
grandkids born.
But on the other side of that,when life happens, people are
struggling having mental healthcrisis or addiction loss, and
I'm, I'm reaching an age where Irecently at the store, I bought
(32:29):
the six pack of sympathy cards.
Man, it, it's just.
No one prepares us for that.
No.
There's a big difference in thelodge between saying all of the
words, or living them.
Mm-hmm.
In a very meaningful friend tofriend and brother to brother
(32:52):
context.
And that's something that Ai.
Or sitting in front of a screenor sitting isolated in one's
home or apartment, just there'sno comparison.
Oh yeah, you're right.
And, uh, what you said is veryenlightening.
So when I joined Masonry about12 years ago, I would hear about
somebody mentioning that Mr.
So and So Brother So-and-Sopassed to the Celestial Lodge
(33:14):
about, and we all stood up andhad a moment of silence.
And I didn't know who thatperson was because I was new to
Masonry.
But now, for the last few years.
I've known those people.
Like I was with a brother who,you know, he was in his late
eighties or early nineties andthey passed away.
And now I'm sensing that senseof mortality that I've known
(33:35):
these people, they've passedaway and they're almost like a
family.
So when you say about those sixpack sympathy cards, uh, I'm
also of that age where I knowthese people and I'm just
thinking.
Boy, I miss that brother.
And when you say ai, yeah, Imean there are some things that
AI can never, like the, thehandshake, the pat on the back,
(33:56):
you know, just that feeling ofcomradery.
You can't just get that throughai.
AI is currently doing a lot forus in our daily lives.
It will continue to do that, butthe one thing that AI will never
do is replace the human to humanconnection.
(34:18):
Definitely.
I.
Anyone who listens to ourpodcast knows that we like to
pose a couple random questionsin an effort to get to know you
better.
You're laughing already, Sujit.
What is the dumbest feature ofthe human body?
I.
(34:39):
I think it's the nose because mepersonally, I would, I told my
wife that, um, I don't think Ican smell that well.
She would say, oh, what do youthink of that?
And there's some perfumers.
And I said, no, I think I've gota, I don't think I can smell it.
So I told her, should I applyfor one of those handicap uh,
stickers?
And she said, what do you meanno?
I said, I can't smell, so I havea handicap.
(35:00):
Right.
I mean, why is it only blindpeople and deaf people that get
that thing?
I should get that.
So I don't know if I'm.
Olfactory challenged something,but I'm not a very thing.
So I don't know.
I think the nose is good forbreathing, but I meant besides
that, you know, people spend alot of money trying to get a
rhinoplasty, trying to, tryingto modify it.
Yeah.
And I don't know, maybe thegrand architect, the universe
(35:23):
should have come up with someother way to breathe through the
skin or something.
What do you think could actuallyunite most people?
Good question.
So I was gonna go down theroute, uh, route of saying a
belief in a higher power.
(35:43):
But if you know anything fromthe 10th degree, usually it's
belief in higher power thatsometimes is the cause of most
of the wars in society.
But there is always a, a commonthread among all these great
religions.
And I'm not saying I'm aphilosopher who can unite all of
'em, but.
I think the only way to unitepeople is to just be more
(36:08):
secular and open and not, uh,you know, be culturally
sensitive because everyone, likeeven, you know, I'm from a
different part of the world.
Originally when I came here, theMasons, the brothers, they were
the most.
Inviting people I've met, I, I,I tried to join the jcs, the
Road Track Club, the LEO Club,and I thought they were all
(36:29):
friendly, but, uh, none.
I mean, I even joined Mensa.
It sound like I'm trying topush, I.
Put myself on a pedestal.
Again, it's the Higher IQSociety.
I went to a MENSA meeting and Isaw a bunch of guides and I saw
this guy, and I'm not making funof them.
He had very strong body odor, sothat's where finally Oh, I see.
Well, your nose.
Yeah, my nose was working and Ijust casually looked at him and
(36:49):
said, Hey, I.
What do you do for a living?
Just, you know, to break theice.
And he looked at me and he had asmile and he says, oh, just
because I have a high IQ doesn'tmean I'm employable.
And he started laughing and Ithought, oh, so that's actually
a negative, a deterrent.
The higher your iq, the moreyou're gonna complain to your
boss and you'd probably lose thejob.
I thought, this is not helping.
(37:09):
So, but when I joined Masonry, Imet guys from all walks of life
from, you know, uh, you know,like a construction guy all the
way to a lawyer.
And they're all, they're all onthe level.
So I'm kind of blanket on yourquestion.
Oh, how do we unite people?
Masonry would be a great one tounite people because we are all
on the level, but beyond that, Imean we just have to break down
(37:30):
the walls and be culturallysensitive.
Again, I don't know how that'sgonna happen if we keep
isolating and using, again, AIto, we need to probably get
together.
But again, when you have peopletalking to each other.
There could be again, uh,frustration and people want
their own agenda, but the reasonis when you mention the word
(37:52):
complaint, why somebodycomplaining, there's probably a
reason why he's complaining.
If you can understand the reasonwhy he's complaining, then you
will also be em empathetic orsensitive to that issue.
Usually they have somethinghappened earlier in the day that
probably ticked off that person,not he's honestly angry at you,
so.
(38:12):
But beyond that, no.
I'm, I'm not a philosopher or apolitician.
I have no power.
I just wish that people would bemore open-minded.
That's your your opinion though.
Yeah.
More open-minded.
Learn from each other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Learn.
Don't be so, you know, quick tojudge.
Like try to figure out like, whydid he say that?
Why is he thinking that way?
Try to understand one another.
It's something we don't do verywell in our isolated world.
(38:34):
Yeah.
And on behind the screen, onsocial media and lash out.
You don't agree with me?
And I don't agree with you.
So we, yeah.
Yeah.
We just can't be friends.
Yeah.
Uh, I don't, I don't, then Idon't just hit a like or a
dislike on social media.
Now, here's this thing that Iwas told by somebody, is that
most people, most people in theworld are good people.
So we don't wanna say that everyperson we meet is, you know, you
(38:58):
gotta be kind of suspicious.
People are good.
I mean.
Just, you know, the cup isalways half empty in my opinion.
Or maybe three fourth.
I mean, I said it the other wayaround, is three fourth full and
one fourth empty.
You and I are old enough toremember meeting people that
perhaps we knew right away thatwe're probably not gonna be the
(39:20):
best of friends.
Yeah.
We didn't agree on certainthings, but that doesn't mean
that we.
Shut them out or isolate or justcompletely avoid that person.
But that feels like the vibe oftoday, that behind that screen,
social media, if you and Iaren't for and against all the
same things, then mm-hmm.
No way we're, we're done.
(39:43):
Yeah.
And I think social media givesyou that, uh, you know, it's
made, made like a cowardly wayof, because you're not telling
it to their face.
You're just posting it outthere.
And you know, it's kinda like,maybe it could be somebody who's
thousands of miles away, butyou're putting like, oh, screw
you, or put a thumbs down.
And maybe you had some otheragenda before it, that's what
(40:05):
ticked you off there.
But, uh, I, yeah, I, I, I seethat all the time.
I'm on Facebook, I'm onInstagram once in a while.
I'm not addicted to it, but Isee somebody make a comment and
sometimes they kind of likehijack my own comment and make
it look like I'm sayingsomething stupid and just like a
neutral, sarcastic comment thatgets misunderstood.
And, but that's the way theworld is.
(40:26):
And I find that difficultbecause people constantly.
Use social media to affirm theirbeliefs.
Yeah.
I'm for this, I'm against that.
It's platitudes.
It's just talking.
Yeah.
There's a big difference betweensaying, oh, I align myself with
this.
Or actually going out and doingconstructive, productive work on
(40:49):
behalf of someone or someone.
Someone in need.
Mm-hmm.
Anyone can say the words, butwho's out and, and I don't, I
don't mean for that to soundlike to do something radical or
disruptive.
Mm-hmm.
But just seeing an opportunity,seizing an opportunity, and
that's what I love about thecraft.
Okay.
(41:10):
Where do we see thoseopportunities to give back to
someone in need?
And it doesn't have to begrandiose.
Small things are impactful too.
Yeah.
Coming back to what you justsaid.
You know, some people just havestrong opinions and that's the,
probably the sa, the easiest wayto put it out there because if
you go and tell that to somebodyin the face, it could end up in
(41:30):
a debate, an argument.
Maybe even a slugging a fist orthey won't want to talk at all.
Yeah.
Face to face.
Face to face.
But then you do it over there.
You can just block somebody, youcan write back and you know, and
again, it depends on how muchstamina you have.
I've had somebody, people, youknow, cyber bullying somebody
and you just ignore it.
(41:51):
Uh, but beyond that, yes, Ithink Masonry teaches us, uh, to
be civil, I would think.
And I think that's what's keptus in business all of these
years that we are apolitical.
Non-sectarian for those wholisten to our podcast that are
not masons have to have a beliefin God and a higher power.
He can't be an atheist, but ourmembers are Christians, Muslim,
(42:14):
Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu.
I always use Benjamin Franklinas an example, was more of a
deist.
Oh yeah.
But we do not argue religion.
Mm-hmm.
Or politics when we aretogether.
Now, if we could only encourageour members who have a
proclivity to do that on socialmedia to stop doing that, that
would be very helpful.
Yeah.
(42:35):
isn't it a great place to go toget to know friends and
brothers?
Definitely.
Yeah.
Void of those two divisivetopics.
Yeah.
And coming back to the thingabout our brothers, now, of
course I believe in freedom ofexpression as long as it's, uh,
not.
Detrimental.
You're not trying to totally,you know, insult somebody.
So I know that sometimes theysay, well, when you do that in
(42:56):
the social, in cyberspace cansay you are also representing
masonry, or whatever it is.
Uh, we can only tell them somany times, but it is freedom
of, you know, it is.
Yeah.
And people are free to.
Say or share whatever they wantto.
The question comes up though,why would you want to, why would
(43:17):
you want to alienate 50% or moreof your friends, your family,
your colleagues on social mediaand for what?
So you can have that moment offeeling self-righteous.
You can get on that hill at thatproverbial hill and.
Bask in your glory.
(43:37):
No, so that's a good question.
It's almost rhetorical Now, thereason you and I are asking the
question is because we don'tthink like that, those people,
so we don't get our juices, youknow, or our adrenaline rush out
of that.
There are some people who getthat, they just are that type of
people.
No, maybe there's a personalityvariable and all that it, you
know, is it because we'regetting older and we're not old,
(44:01):
but we're not 30.
So somebody said that if you'renot controversial, you are.
you are irrelevant.
So it's kinda like some peopletake that literally, like if I
don't create, if I don't stirthe pot, nobody knows who I am.
I'm getting this.
It's easy to get notoriety thanto do something positive and
(44:21):
get.
You know, an ap, uh, an, youknow, applauded or an applause
for that.
It's easier to be, you know, tobe like, I'm not saying I'm not
justifying this, but it's easyto be a criminal and get fame,
infa be infamous than to befamous and do something good.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, you can do 10 goodthings and just do one really
(44:42):
bad thing, and it's the badthing that people remember
before and they forget all the.
So again, I don't know if somepeople just like that weird
attention thing.
Is it a personality thing?
Very ego driven.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So many influencers that are 20million followers that are just
keeping up though this aura,they're keeping up.
There's, it's all an act.
(45:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Until the reality will finallycome along and Yeah.
Like when you hear about thoseviral videos, usually what are
they, something that's beyondhuman experience or some, it's
not something nice.
It's not like.
You know, something that we, oh,there was a beautiful sunrise.
Why would we wanna watch a viralvideo of the sunrise?
Yeah.
You know, I'll date myself witha song lyric.
(45:28):
A mentor reminded me, I can'tremember who it was.
This was it, Billy Joel.
I had my pointless point ofview, Uhhuh.
But life went on no matter whowas wrong or who was right.
Oh, And he didn't stop the fire.
You remember that one?
That was a couple years afterthat one.
Yeah.
Yes.
I heard he can't sing anymore,right?
(45:48):
He, uh, yes, I saw a headlineabout him.
Yeah.
He is in poor health.
I was shocked to see he's, is helike 76 now?
Yeah.
I didn't know.
He was only that old.
I thought he was much older.
Did you Oh, classic.
Yeah.
So what's next for you on thework front?
Family front?
Do you have big plans, bigprojects in your near future?
(46:10):
Yeah.
I'm trying to be humble.
My son is graduating high schoolany minute now.
This is the grad season.
I think it's tomorrow actually.
Yeah.
And then he's going to the UMD,university of Minnesota Duluth
for engineering.
So he's kind of following in my,in my father's footsteps, his
grandfather.
Uh, and me personally, no.
I mean, I'll continue doing whatI have to do, trying to, uh, you
(46:32):
know, help people with mentalhealth issues in the area.
Um, continue my masonic, uh,pathway and do good deeds to
others so that, you know,hopefully the world is in a
better place when I leave.
You have a very unique.
(46:53):
Opportunity to be truly givingback to those in need, the
people that you care for andprovide that guidance is, I'm
sure frustrating as it can betime and again, you shared some
of their procrastination or someof their delayed, Hey, just,
just fix it for me now.
But, but big picture, you'redoing great work.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.
(47:16):
Sji.
Varma, thank you for being withus in studio today.
Great pleasure, Reed.
Call me again if you need me.
I will do that.
I appreciate you and until nexttime I.
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