June 27, 2025 • 43 mins
The pod gets electric when Ben Lacy shares perspective on respecting the 24-inch gauge, creating a bespoke Masonic experience, and the action necessary for authentic brotherhood.
“Support the people that are working for the betterment of the Craft. Figure out a way that you can ask someone how you can help them. And then go follow up on that and do the thing. Figure out a way that you can make a difference.”
A felony prosecutor/nonprofit attorney, busy dad/husband, and one-time collaborator with the Duke of Edinburgh ( ! ), Ben is a plural member of Golden Sheaf Lodge No. 133 (Morris, MN) and St. John’s Lodge No. 1 (Stillwater, MN).
“Muh-sonic” or “May-sonic?” Call your next witness, it’s an all new episode of Minnesota Masonic Histories & Mysteries.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
what is brotherhood?
Brotherhood is everything thatyou want to make it.
Brotherhood requires commitment.
It requires buy-in.
It requires trust, faith,temperance, all the things that
we talk about in Masonry and,uh.
(00:23):
It's what I wanna be a part of.
Is there a difference betweenbrotherhood, the noun and
brotherhood?
The verb?
A hundred percent.
How so?
Brotherhood the noun makes it sothat you can say, I'm part of a
(00:46):
brotherhood, and you can saythat without any action.
As a verb, of course, we're topverbs or action words.
You gotta have action to be apart of a brotherhood.
You gotta, if you want thebrotherhood to survive, if you
want the brotherhood to bevibrant, you have to buy in.
(01:07):
You have to act in a way that isparticipating in the
brotherhood, not just existingin the brotherhood.
the words that come to mind asyou say that are things like
meaningful and authentic.
A hundred percent.
It's meaningful, authenticparticipation, bringing your
(01:30):
whole self to the table.
Uh, that little voice that makesyou want to question something,
It's about engaging with thatvoice and then understanding
that that voice is healthy, butstill trusting your brothers
(01:52):
brotherhood could be also knownas.
Knowing what's going on in eachother's lives outside of the
lodge in life.
Absolutely.
It, St.
John's Lodge where I'm a partof, uh, we regularly are harping
on making sure that we'refollowing up with each other.
(02:13):
And it's not just a, Hey, howare you?
It's a how are you doing?
How can I help you?
Tell me more.
Get past that initial answer.
Get past the, I'm good.
How are you?
I'm good.
Moving on to the next person.
Hi, how are you?
I'm good.
I'm good.
It's, it's What do you need fromme?
(02:34):
How can I help you feel betterabout life in the moment?
Life with the lodge and lifeoutside of the lodge and
bringing all that together isbrotherhood.
Don't you love the, I'm good.
(02:55):
We all defer to that.
That's the canned answer.
But when we peel that back acouple of layers and really know
what's going, and it could begood things, difficult things
across the board, but knowingwhat each of us are experiencing
in this rollercoaster of life.
Our guest today is Ben Lacey.
(03:17):
He was raised in Stillwater,Minnesota as an only child by
his mother, who was a homemakerand father who was a patent
attorney.
Ben graduated from StillwaterHigh School in 2006, went to the
University of Minnesota Morris,graduated in 2009 with a
bachelor's degree in politicalscience and comparative
politics.
(03:38):
From there, he accepted aninternship in Washington DC
where he worked for a lobbyingfirm that lobbied for
nonpartisan issues pertaining toMinnesota cities, counties, and
municipalities.
Ben quickly realized that he didnot want to be a lobbyist, So he
took a job working for the BoyScouts of America and worked
there for about five years,helping pilot the Duke of
(04:00):
Edinburgh's Young AmericansChallenge, among other things.
I can't wait to hear more aboutthat.
Ultimately, Ben wound up goingto law school at Mitchell Hamlin
School of Law and has now beenpracticing law as a felony
prosecutor.
And as a nonprofit attorneyworking at Tubman, representing
victim survivors of domesticviolence, Ben joined Free
(04:22):
Masonry in college at GoldenChief Lodge, number 1 33 in
Morris, Minnesota, and is aplural member at St.
John's Lodge, number one inStillwater.
Welcome, Ben.
Thank you.
I have to ask right away, tellus about piloting this Young
Americans challenge with.
Wow.
well, the Duke of Edinburgh'sprogram worldwide is sort of
(04:44):
like Eagle Scout.
there are three levels, bronze,silver, and gold.
And that gold award is, is verysimilar to what we would
consider to be an Eagle ScoutAward in the us.
Well, his Royal Highness wantedto expand that and so he issued
this challenge to youngAmericans and he thought, why
(05:05):
not partner with the scouts?
We took that and tried theprogram on a very micro level in
a couple of places, and thenstarted to expand it out It's
been really amazing to see itgrow over the years, and it
continues to be a world classand world recognized award, and
(05:31):
I was lucky to be a part of thatexperience.
Seeing a photo of you with theman himself, what, what was that
like?
I'm a pretty big guy, but I feltpretty small in that moment,
really.
Uh, yeah.
It was very humbling to be giventhe award at the United States
Capitol.
Um, it was, it was very surrealto have everything from
(05:54):
paparazzi there and all thatfollowing his Royal Highness
and, uh.
Just meeting some meetingroyalty and saying hi.
You know, I, I'm, I'm Ben, I'mactually a dual citizen of the
United States and Bermuda.
Uh, oh, by the way, Bermuda'sthat one country that's, you
know, a sovereign part ofBritain as well.
(06:15):
Don't forget about US police.
that was really an unbelievableexperience and it really brought
full circle a lot of.
My family and a lot of myexperiences up to that point in
my life.
And you worked for the Scoutsfor five years and then also
pivoting into a legal career.
(06:37):
Yeah.
Tell us more about what you'redoing today in terms of
courtroom.
Yeah, so today I am a trialattorney.
I'm managing attorney at Tubman,so I teach a lot of.
trial skills to volunteerattorneys who are part of our,
what we call safety project and,uh, family law project.
And, uh, I also teach new staffattorneys, uh, similar skills.
(07:04):
Before that, I was a felonyprosecutor in Washington County
and that's where I really waslucky enough to hone my trial
skills with some reallyincredible mentors.
Most of whom are either retiredor no longer with us.
But, uh, gosh, it was aprivilege to work with the team
that was there.
And then everybody else, for themost part, I think there are two
(07:25):
people left in that group at, atWashington County and everyone
else is a judge now.
So you joined a lodge while incollege at Morris Golden Chief.
What was the catalyst to say Iwanna be a Freemason, even while
I'm in college with a lot ofother obligations at the time?
So shout out to Golden ChiefLodge.
(07:46):
I, John Amon.
was absolutely influential inbringing me in.
I, he was my boss at the time.
I told him about how I have along family history of masonry
that skipped my father.
So it's grandfather's back.
and John said, well, hey, cometo a meeting.
(08:07):
And uh, I did.
And they had spaghetti dinnersand other dinners.
And as a college student, gosh,that was pretty nice.
It's a good start.
It was a great start.
And then after that, we.
We went through the wholeprocess of becoming a mason.
You know, I'll, I'll neverforget, Yeah.
(08:28):
Started more as a socialinteraction.
A hundred percent.
It was, it was a slow processand I think it was really good
that it was a slow process.
It.
Made me feel like masonry, uh,forgive the, the, the parallel
here, but is a rock and it's notgoing anywhere.
(08:51):
So wherever I went, I couldalways return to my rock.
And I got initiated on my 21stbirthday.
So I went from that, you know,out to the Legion and we had a
good time.
Little, little doublecelebration.
Little double celebration.
Okay.
It was great.
And uh, and then I came backafter the lobbying stint, one
(09:15):
summer just to be raised.
And I haven't been back toMorris much since, but Masonry
has always been that rock and Iwas.
I knew, I knew I was a mason.
I know I am a mason all the waythrough that time, but I was,
(09:35):
for all intents and purposes,inactive for a while.
You know, I had to figure stuffout and I knew how important it
was to me to pay my dues and dothat.
That was, that was kind of theextent of my participation for a
bit.
And finally, I got where Iwanted to be situated in
Stillwater and joined St.
John's, but.
(09:57):
I bet we have a lot of brotherslike that, that are waiting for
that moment, that are waitingfor the ask, that are waiting
for the thing that are waitingto come participate again or to
participate for the first time.
But they know full well theirmasons.
They're just trying to figurethat out, figure out their
(10:17):
timing.
We often underestimate theawkwardness of someone that
needed a little time to go takecare of things in their lives,
their family, their job, theircareer development, and they
often feel a little sheepishcoming back and ask themselves,
I've had these conversationswith many brothers, does my
(10:40):
lodge even want me?
Is it cool if I come back?
And obviously the answer isresoundingly yes.
but somehow in the process, thatassumption is made.
We don't see him.
Maybe we haven't kept in contactwith him.
We talked about what, knowingwhat's going on in each other's
lives, and then as that timeincreases, there's a bit of a
(11:03):
complex that someone may haveand instead of taking the first
step to reach out, they mightjust disappear.
I'm, I'm nodding along as you'resaying all this, Reid.
It's, uh, it's so true and it'sso in your head.
I regularly tell my brothers,please show up late, please.
(11:23):
If you can't wear a suit today,that's fine.
I still want to see you.
The lodge still wants to see youshow up, be a part of this.
You know, if you got a, youknow, if stated it's at seven 30
and you can't show up till eight30, well guess what?
You know something's probablyhappening after lodge.
And on top of that, show up andbe a part of what is left of
(11:44):
Lodge.
the other piece is I try to tellpeople who are taking that break
when I know that they're takingit.
Don't feel bad about it.
Please don't.
Let that guilt get in the way ofcoming back.
cause it is guilt, right?
It is awkward or it's, you know,oh, we haven't seen this guy.
(12:05):
Hey, if someone is paying theirdues and someone is trying to
just stay engaged, they'regetting your emails.
Are they reading every one ofthem?
Who knows if you're active, whoknows if everyone's reading the
emails?
Okay.
Yes.
But I, at the end of the day,the.
The invite, the openness thatrock being able to return to the
(12:26):
rock is so important.
And if you think about it thatway, the rock hasn't worn that
much, you know, in, in alifetime.
So it's there.
Where are you?
If only we took the proactiveapproach.
(12:47):
When we don't see someone inlodge, haven't heard from them
in a little while, maybe theirsocial media presence has been
quiet, if they were otherwise onthere frequently, and ask the
question, how are you?
What's new in life?
Instead of just assuming, well,he doesn't come around much, he
must not care anymore, thatthat's usually the flashpoint
(13:09):
for the alienation.
That begins that quiet, awkwardstandoff of.
Do they even want me and thebrother's saying, where is he?
Who wants to make the first stepproactively to simply say, how
are you brother?
We've been thinking about you.
We miss seeing you.
But first, tell us about life asa mason.
(13:34):
One of the thing, first thingsthat we have to do in every
setting is check our ego.
That goes both ways in thatsetting, right?
Active brotherhood, you'rereaching out.
You are, not adding somevillainous intent to someone not
showing up.
You're checking your ego andthen when you receive that call,
(13:58):
'cause you haven't been aroundin a while or what have you,
check your ego.
Don't worry about what's on yourmind or what's, you know, what,
whatever is there.
You know, even that sheepishembarrassed feeling.
No, we're just happy to see you.
Everyone is happy to betogether.
Isn't it nice to dwell togetheras brothers?
(14:23):
I saw another great quote fromErnest Hemingway.
I'm gonna read it.
It's not short.
In our darkest moments.
We don't need solutions oradvice.
What we yearn for is simplyhuman connection, a quiet
presence, a gentle touch.
(14:45):
These small gestures are theanchors that hold us steady when
life feels like too much.
Please don't try to fix me.
Don't take on my pain or pushaway My shadows just sit beside
me as I work through my owninner storms.
Be the steady hand I can reachfor as I find my way.
(15:10):
My pain is mine to carry mybattles mine to face.
But your presence, your presencereminds me.
I'm not alone in this vast,sometimes frightening world.
It's a quiet reminder that I amworthy of love even when I feel
broken.
(15:31):
So in those dark hours, when Ilose my way, will you just be
here?
Not as a rescuer, but as acompanion.
Hold my hand until the dawnarrives.
Helping me remember my strength.
Your silent support is the mostprecious gift you can give.
(15:53):
It's a love that helps meremember who I am, even when I
forget.
That to me captures the coreessence of what brotherhood is.
I agree that the words areincredibly powerful, and you add
(16:18):
in the context of Hemingwayhimself and the imperfections of
the man who wrote those words,add another layer.
The, those are admirable words.
I don't know that if you askedHemingway, if he were sitting
here today, he would say, ohyeah, I ascribed all of that.
Right?
He would say, probably say a fewfour letter words, but at the
(16:41):
end of the day, he would, uh, hewas quick, I think in his, in
his ways to check that ego andadmit to his shortcomings.
And because of that, we can hearbetter his intention in those
words.
And I love that.
so as we talk about brotherhood,the human to human connection,
(17:05):
how vital that is to have asuccessful lodge, to have a
successful anything, a place ofwork where we are usual
advocation of house of worship,any of those places where the
connection is hollow, therelationships are.
Fake or transparent.
Let's go with, let's go withjust generic.
(17:28):
That's not a recipe for successunless there's that authenticity
baked into that.
As we talk about the Masonicexperience again and again, the
battle cry is, well, we justneed more members.
And ironically, while lodges areinitiating a new class of
(17:48):
members.
They're usually asking orseeking more members and not
giving the proper attention orthe mentoring to the members who
were just initiated.
We become really good at puttingmembers through the paces.
Feels like we're going onautopilot in that scenario.
(18:13):
Where do we find that balancebetween new members, but looking
at it as an infinite perspectiveand ensuring that the experience
is a quality one, not just forthe new guys, but for the
existing members.
At the same time, the Masonicexperience is bespoke.
(18:35):
It is something that needs to benarrowly tailored.
To every individual that comesthrough our Westgate.
The process of tailoring thatexperience is how you engage the
old with the new.
It's how you shape the future.
And if you're doing it right,it's individualized.
(18:58):
It's not autopilot.
It's individualized to the guysthat come in and say, I'm here
because I want to help thecommunity.
Okay.
Great.
That's a, that's a veryadmirable thing, and we want to
nurture that.
Or the guy that says, I'm herebecause I want to be a better
person.
(19:19):
I want to improve myself as aman.
Personal growth.
Personal growth.
That's different than the, thecharitable a aspirations of
another brother.
Uh, and so that means that theirintake, that their, their
involvement into thebrotherhood.
Looks different.
(19:39):
You're pairing those people withdifferent mentors.
You're presenting them withdifferent people that will
provide them differentperspectives so that they have a
bespoke experience that speaksto their needs and their desires
and masonry.
At some point, the rest willcome along.
The person that wants to docharity, charity is gonna become
a better man.
(20:00):
The person that says I can neverdo ritual, eventually can
probably do ritual.
All of those things will comewith time and getting that
transit transitory period of newmember to the long game.
That's where we, in my opinion,are having issues in masonry
(20:21):
right now.
That's where we've been spendinga ton of time at St.
John's trying to figure out howto individually work with each
new member and to provide themthe things that they want to be
a part of.
Even if that just means Ijoined, I realized this is a
lot, I've made it through thesecond degree.
Now I'm gonna have a kid, or nowI'm gonna go out in my world
(20:43):
and, and I have to travel a lotfor a new job.
Okay, we're right back to theconversation that says, don't
feel bad about that.
You're not abandoning us, we'rethe rock that you can come back
to.
And so that means we'retailoring each experience how it
needs to go.
And it's so important that we dothat because then we create
(21:04):
lasting members in a, in a, abasis of members that are, are,
are gonna come back, that aregoing to build as they have the
time and opportunity to do it.
And yes, we need new members.
Reid, I totally agree.
But we also need the old membersthat we have to participate in a
(21:26):
new way in that those, thosebrothers, the older brothers
that figure out and are, arefiguring out just how to not get
in the way, but instead nurturethe new, even if that might be
uncomfortable for them.
(21:47):
That's a beautiful thing.
That's checking your ego.
That's brotherhood.
The more I think about that 24inch gauge, if we really respect
that notion of dividing ourtime, it will really, not just
for ourselves, but how we canapply that in our understanding
(22:10):
of our brothers and theirchallenges with time and
commitments in life.
yes, you have to go tend towhatever it is in your life and
we support you in that.
that's, that's powerful stuff.
I know you're having a lot ofproactive conversations at your
lodge at St.
(22:30):
John's, number one.
Have you delved into what thefuture of Freemasonry looks
like?
Is that something you guys talkabout when you plan this, when
you try to unpack all of theselayers of the Masonic
experience?
Yes.
tell us more.
(22:53):
Uh, at St.
John's, it's probably our numberone focus is the future, and
that is divided up into, thefinancial future, the membership
future, the ritual future, theprogram future.
Those are probably the, the fourcategories that we're focused
(23:14):
on.
Everyone's got a different partof it that they're, they're kind
of drawn to or feel good about.
And so tapping into the rightpeople is helpful.
It's created a situation wherewe have more active committees
than we've ever had in recentmemory, and we are constantly
focused on what we frankly don'thave.
(23:39):
We don't have the breadcrumbs.
Beyond the ritual.
And don't get me wrong, theritual's got a lot of
breadcrumbs in there, but wedon't have the the breadcrumbs
of why did this money exist inthis pot, in this way, from
(24:00):
Worshipful master to Worshipfulmaster.
You know, why?
Why is it that, that our bespokemembership experience isn't
written down?
Why don't we have a process sothat we have at least an ideal
that we can strive for?
There's, and there are a lot ofresources out there that are
(24:25):
dated, But how to bring in amason has changed.
How to provide a bespokeexperience in 2025 has changed
from 1990.
You know, it, it's just, it'snot the same and adjusting and
figuring that out, but having toinvent the wheel again is, is
(24:48):
something we're constantlythinking about.
And then writing it down so thatthe next group of guys at least
understands.
Why we made a decision the waywe made it.
You know, if the, you know, ifthis issue or that issue is
controversial, rather thanburying it, embrace the
emulation, embrace the fact thatthat happened, write it down and
(25:13):
then put a warning sign on it sothe next guy doesn't fall in
that pothole.
It's so true.
We could see that going back inminutes from years gone by.
you look back in the minutes ahundred years ago, and some of
the quote unquote escalatedsituations were very similar,
very parallel to today, However,when that institutional
(25:36):
knowledge gets lost or when weget lazy in sharing the
institutional knowledge with thenext generation, it's easy to
start going through the motions.
Uh, we open, we read theminutes.
Nobody has any education readyfor tonight.
We'll just call it a night.
And there that bespokeexperience takes a hit and some
(25:57):
of that quality of experience,while it may have been a gradual
erosion, what goes from gradualto being sudden.
And I commend you guys foraddressing that head on in
seeking ways to problem solve.
To really look at from a higherlevel of how we can ensure we're
(26:20):
providing a quality experienceto all of our members.
'cause like you said, everyone'scoming with a little different
source of passion, whether it'scommunity engagement, personal
growth, seeking that mentormentee, authentic friendship and
brotherhood.
Everyone's wired a littledifferently, but we all come
together under the same set ofembracing our core values.
(26:46):
You're totally right.
And preparing for our futurerequires accepting our
impermanence on this planet inlodge.
Our relevance in lodge on thisplanet there, there's an arc of
(27:07):
time that, that we're travelingupon that, uh.
Both relevance and existence,uh, decrease potentially over
time, and there's an egocomponent to that, checking that
ego, figuring out how to embraceand plan for the future.
(27:29):
You know, someday I'll be inlodge and I'll be the old guy in
the corner.
All I can hope and pray for isthat I don't get in the way.
Because I, of course, have anego.
I of course want to think thatmy idea is the right one, but
the mere fact that somebody elseis coming up with my same idea
(27:50):
doesn't mean that I need to tellthem that, oh, yeah, that's my
idea.
That was mine.
Yeah.
Right.
No, it's, it's that, that's agreat idea.
How can I help you with that?
You've probably got some ideassince it was your idea too, but
you, you, you don't.
Stifle that new idea.
You take the guys that have theimperfect ideas and you try to
(28:13):
grow them, you try to figure outhow to embrace them, and that is
a level of masonry that I thinkwe as a, as a trending younger
lodge right now are trying towrap our, our heads around
trending younger across thestate in many instances.
(28:34):
And as you're talking.
It occurred to me We prideourselves on being
non-sectarian, apolitical.
These are things that havelikely kept us in business for
all of these years.
But what does that actuallyequate?
Check your ego.
Sure.
I have an opinion.
You have an opinion.
The person next to us, we allhave different backgrounds,
(28:55):
different convictions.
However, to walk into thethreshold of a lodge and leave
our personal passions, strongopinions at the door, and
getting to know one another ashumans, as friends and as
brothers.
And there's space for that.
Everywhere we look.
(29:15):
Everywhere you go is a mason.
There is space to connect inways that are not partisan, in
ways that are not vitriolic, inways that are absolutely
supportive.
If everything we do supportseach other, we will survive for
the next millennia, and it'sgonna be a beautiful, beautiful
(29:37):
thing as we set up for the nextthousand years of masonry.
That's the, the, we've shownthat we can survive and stand
the test of time.
Now that we have that foresight,we can plan for a thousand
years, we can talk about,alright, this year we have the
(29:57):
University of Minnesota in athousand years.
Why isn't it the University ofMinnesota Masonic educational
institution?
I'm not, let me be clear.
I'm not saying we take over theUniversity of Minnesota, but
you're thinking big.
That's right.
Think big.
Yeah.
Dream.
Dream as a lodge.
Dream as a mason, we got thereas masons before we dreamed a
(30:23):
country and we built thebackbone of this nation.
Let's make masons that again.
Let's figure out a way that wecan better support every single
person that comes our way On thetopic of support, you're a busy
(30:51):
dad, busy husband.
Your wife recently hadsuccessful surgery at the
Masonic Cancer Center at theuniversity.
She did.
She, uh, fe at the end ofFebruary this past year.
Um, my wife had some medicalcomplications, which turned out
(31:15):
to, at least in part, caused by.
A very large brain tumor in thefrontal part of her brain, and
it took up more than half of herbrain.
The care we were getting wasn'tmeeting the standards that we
(31:38):
expected of modern medicine, so,uh, not because the.
Not because of of the wrongscalpel or the wrong scientific
thing.
It was because there was acommunication issue in the
day-to-day stuff.
So we started looking around andwe found, uh, the Minnesota
Masonic Institutes at, at the Uof M and we found Dr.
(32:03):
Van Dyker, Dr.
Van Tyer.
Um, well, I have a wife becauseof Dr.
Van Tyer.
Who is alive.
My children have a mother who isalive, and he took out the
entirety of that tumor down aslow as he could without taking
(32:28):
away the function of her legs,uh, to the point where you can't
even see it on an MRI.
He knows there's a little bitleft and that, that, to me, it
was, it was funny to listen tohim talk about it because in his
mind.
He was almost talking about thatas, as in his mind is like, I
couldn't do more.
Wow.
You know, and, and it was, thatwas frustrating to him.
(32:50):
But gosh, what he did for us,what he's done for us, what the
Masons have done to get himthere is pretty incredible.
'cause I was talking to him andI, I said, you know, do you know
about the Masons?
All that stuff?
He goes, I wouldn't be here.
In this place at this hospital,if it were not for the Minnesota
(33:15):
Masonic charities.
When I was looking to find aplace to build my career home,
there was a$25 million giftgiven to the University of
Minnesota by the MinnesotaMasonic Charities.
If that didn't happen, Iwouldn't be here today and I
wouldn't be able to be operatingon your wife.
(33:36):
Oh, the full circle experiencethere.
That full moment of we went outin the world, I tried to help
save my wife's life as best wecould.
Right?
She tried to save hers too, andwe didn't find what we were
looking for.
So we asked and we saw it, andwe knocked and we found, and
(34:03):
what we found was right back tothe masons in your backyard,
even right in our backyard.
This is, this is no pun intendedto no brainer here.
Uh, you know, the, the MinnesotaMasonic charities, the planning
ahead that our brothers havedone in that I only wish they'd
(34:27):
done it for their lodges to,because if our lodges were in
the same shape the charities isright now, we'd be having a lot
of different conversationsaround masonry.
But we have time still.
We can get this right.
We have a map.
Yeah.
You know, and, and let's followthat map and set ourselves up
and set up our communities forthe next thousand years of
(34:50):
masonry.
We have that opportunity indeed.
And for whatever reason, whetherit's because.
We're human, or because we'remasons, we love to talk about
things ad nauseum.
However, now we can actuallymake some decisions and make
(35:15):
progress.
Why is it we won't execute onsomething?
If there's no guarantee of thatmassive overnight success,
Progress does not always have tobe loud or fast, just make
progress.
But we have to get out of thethe rumination trap to do that.
(35:39):
Yes.
And that means if we try an ideaonce.
We need to, if five guys showup, if five guys in your
community show up to this idea,that's not a failure.
That's a data point.
It's not a trend.
'cause you don't have enoughdata points.
(36:01):
Go figure out, you know, thefirst time you throw an event,
the first time you do somethingnew, make a data point.
Understand that it might not beperfect the first time, but
don't give up on it.
You just put a bunch of timeinto something you just put, you
just put your, your blood,sweat, and tears into.
Whatever program it is, whateverthing you want to do.
And if it doesn't get through orif it doesn't, if you don't
(36:24):
have, uh, an amazing success thefirst time, that doesn't mean
that you just stop building thebuilding.
It means you go buy morematerials, go go get more
stones, and go get more brothersinvolved and build that building
until the point that everybodywants to go sit in the shade of
your building Get together orwhatever, you know, do something
(36:46):
fun and oh by the way, figureout a way to include your family
because Masonry also needsfamilies to support it.
Sure.
We're men doing work of men, butwe have a lot of other
institutions that are great andthat are really involved, but
(37:08):
sometimes.
Our families don't necessarilywant to get involved in those,
but they do wanna support us asmen in what we're doing.
And the way that we can makethat more palatable is by having
more programs that are inclusiveof everybody who supports us in
(37:29):
our Masonic experiences.
You are obviously someonestretched for time, a career, a
wife and kids.
You know your wife is recoveringsuccessfully from her procedure.
Please give her our best and ourlove.
I would imagine you think about,or you've had hobbies and
(37:52):
certain things that you've beenable to do before you had such a
a time crunch.
What lapsed hobby would you liketo return to Broomball?
I played broomball, uh, for along time, which is kinda like
hockey, but with shoes.
And, uh, I played it at a prettyhigh level, um, which was fun.
(38:16):
You know, I, I was a part of atraveling team in DC we'd
actually wind up traveling toMinnesota a lot.
So really that was nice.
I'd, you know, travel home,because there's a lot of brim
ball here.
But we'd traveled to Syracuse,New York, and Ohio and, Nebraska
and all around the country, um,playing.
I.
(38:36):
That was, that was a, it's, it'sa tough sport.
I mean, h you know, hockey is,is hard on your joints, hard on
your person.
Uh, I'm, I'm a goalie by bothbuild and mentality.
Um, I'd love to go back to that.
You know, joints, joints,permitting.
(38:57):
I'm glad you mentioned thatbecause I had the thought I was
queuing up to say, to ask, I'veknown many friends, I haven't
played broom ball since collegein the nineties, but people I
know still playing injuries allthe time.
Why?
You're not on skates.
Why is that?
You're still on ice.
Yeah.
You know, gravity plus iceequals broken.
Okay.
And, uh, you know, you're stillrunning after balls.
(39:20):
You're still running into eachother.
You're still doing all thosethings.
And you, if you're playing atreally high levels, uh.
It's almost safer than playingat the rec league levels because
those guys that are playing atthe really high levels can
control themselves on the ice.
Those people that are figuringout how to control themselves on
the ice are human wrecking ballsthat are keeping orthopedic
(39:44):
surgeons in business.
What was the first majorhistorical event you remember
witnessing?
Two pop into my head.
One was Ventura got elected.
Uh, that was pretty interesting.
Uh, that threw my parents for aloop.
(40:05):
What was a surprise to most?
Yeah, it was a surprise to most.
Um, I remember being at afriend's house and having no
idea what I was watching.
And, uh, you know, now inhindsight.
Going, whoa.
That, that was a big deal.
Mm-hmm.
The other one is nine 11.
Um, I was in, I was in, uh,eighth grade.
(40:26):
I got pulled outta schoolbecause my dad worked at the
Wells Fargo building inMinneapolis, and that was one of
the potential threats, um, oneof the, one of the potential
threat buildings.
And so, you know, it was awhole, um.
You know, I got pulled outtaschool, my dad got pulled outta
(40:47):
work and it was a whole thing.
And I remember what, I rememberplaying with Legos in my room,
watching a television andwatching these buildings fall
over into, over and over again.
And that shaped my generation inmany ways.
(41:08):
that shaped.
I think a lot of where we aretoday, um, you know, there are
two types of people.
Those people who remember whenyou could just walk up to the
gate to fly and those peoplethat will never know that and,
uh, that that changed the world.
I.
(41:30):
What argument are you tired ofhaving?
You know, Reid, it's prettyfunny.
Uh, off the record, a momentago, I said I wanted to.
Talk about something that, uh,uh, would not be Masonic.
You pointed out to me this ideathat there's a difference
between Masonic and Masonic andthat we have members that might,
(41:54):
uh, feel one way or anotherabout this.
Goodness gracious.
Am I sick and tired of peoplebeing, having, having arguments
about that.
Figure out a way to fund yourscholarships, figure out a way
to support your members, figureout a way to do things and
support your people that aren'tfighting about the difference
between Masonic and Mason.
I mean, I, what the heck are thedoodles?
(42:16):
As my kids would say, that's abluey quote for all the parents
out there.
And you know what?
Like, let's stop having thesearguments that mean nothing.
Figure out a way.
Masonry is where we can figureout a way to be.
Men, do do things that aregreater than us.
Figure out a way that you can dosomething greater than yourself
because you can hear and itmatters.
(42:41):
Thank you for having me on thepodcast, Reid.
I mean, I, I really appreciateeverything that you're doing.
I appreciate everything thatGrand Lodge is doing.
Um, I will, I, I wanna say thisbecause I don't know the next
time I'm gonna get a platformlike this, so I'm gonna say it
loud and proud.
Support, support, people,support Grand Lodge, support the
(43:02):
people that show up to work hereevery day.
That are working for thebetterment of the craft.
Figure out a way that you canask someone how you can help
them.
And then go follow up on thatand do the thing.
Figure out a way that you canmake a difference.
And then follow up on the hardthings.
(43:22):
Easy things are fun.
Figure out a way to do the hardstuff, and we're gonna all
support each other into the nextmillennia of the craft.
Ben Lacey, I appreciate youbeing in studio today.
Until next time.
what is brotherhood?
Brotherhood is everything thatyou want to make it.
Brotherhood requires commitment.
It requires buy-in.
It requires trust, faith,temperance, all the things that
we talk about in Masonry and,uh.
(00:23):
It's what I wanna be a part of.
Is there a difference betweenbrotherhood, the noun and
brotherhood?
The verb?
A hundred percent.
How so?
Brotherhood the noun makes it sothat you can say, I'm part of a
(00:46):
brotherhood, and you can saythat without any action.
As a verb, of course, we're topverbs or action words.
You gotta have action to be apart of a brotherhood.
You gotta, if you want thebrotherhood to survive, if you
want the brotherhood to bevibrant, you have to buy in.
(01:07):
You have to act in a way that isparticipating in the
brotherhood, not just existingin the brotherhood.
the words that come to mind asyou say that are things like
meaningful and authentic.
A hundred percent.
It's meaningful, authenticparticipation, bringing your
(01:30):
whole self to the table.
Uh, that little voice that makesyou want to question something,
It's about engaging with thatvoice and then understanding
that that voice is healthy, butstill trusting your brothers
(01:52):
brotherhood could be also knownas.
Knowing what's going on in eachother's lives outside of the
lodge in life.
Absolutely.
It, St.
John's Lodge where I'm a partof, uh, we regularly are harping
on making sure that we'refollowing up with each other.
(02:13):
And it's not just a, Hey, howare you?
It's a how are you doing?
How can I help you?
Tell me more.
Get past that initial answer.
Get past the, I'm good.
How are you?
I'm good.
Moving on to the next person.
Hi, how are you?
I'm good.
I'm good.
It's, it's What do you need fromme?
(02:34):
How can I help you feel betterabout life in the moment?
Life with the lodge and lifeoutside of the lodge and
bringing all that together isbrotherhood.
Don't you love the, I'm good.
(02:55):
We all defer to that.
That's the canned answer.
But when we peel that back acouple of layers and really know
what's going, and it could begood things, difficult things
across the board, but knowingwhat each of us are experiencing
in this rollercoaster of life.
Our guest today is Ben Lacey.
(03:17):
He was raised in Stillwater,Minnesota as an only child by
his mother, who was a homemakerand father who was a patent
attorney.
Ben graduated from StillwaterHigh School in 2006, went to the
University of Minnesota Morris,graduated in 2009 with a
bachelor's degree in politicalscience and comparative
politics.
(03:38):
From there, he accepted aninternship in Washington DC
where he worked for a lobbyingfirm that lobbied for
nonpartisan issues pertaining toMinnesota cities, counties, and
municipalities.
Ben quickly realized that he didnot want to be a lobbyist, So he
took a job working for the BoyScouts of America and worked
there for about five years,helping pilot the Duke of
(04:00):
Edinburgh's Young AmericansChallenge, among other things.
I can't wait to hear more aboutthat.
Ultimately, Ben wound up goingto law school at Mitchell Hamlin
School of Law and has now beenpracticing law as a felony
prosecutor.
And as a nonprofit attorneyworking at Tubman, representing
victim survivors of domesticviolence, Ben joined Free
(04:22):
Masonry in college at GoldenChief Lodge, number 1 33 in
Morris, Minnesota, and is aplural member at St.
John's Lodge, number one inStillwater.
Welcome, Ben.
Thank you.
I have to ask right away, tellus about piloting this Young
Americans challenge with.
Wow.
well, the Duke of Edinburgh'sprogram worldwide is sort of
(04:44):
like Eagle Scout.
there are three levels, bronze,silver, and gold.
And that gold award is, is verysimilar to what we would
consider to be an Eagle ScoutAward in the us.
Well, his Royal Highness wantedto expand that and so he issued
this challenge to youngAmericans and he thought, why
(05:05):
not partner with the scouts?
We took that and tried theprogram on a very micro level in
a couple of places, and thenstarted to expand it out It's
been really amazing to see itgrow over the years, and it
continues to be a world classand world recognized award, and
(05:31):
I was lucky to be a part of thatexperience.
Seeing a photo of you with theman himself, what, what was that
like?
I'm a pretty big guy, but I feltpretty small in that moment,
really.
Uh, yeah.
It was very humbling to be giventhe award at the United States
Capitol.
Um, it was, it was very surrealto have everything from
(05:54):
paparazzi there and all thatfollowing his Royal Highness
and, uh.
Just meeting some meetingroyalty and saying hi.
You know, I, I'm, I'm Ben, I'mactually a dual citizen of the
United States and Bermuda.
Uh, oh, by the way, Bermuda'sthat one country that's, you
know, a sovereign part ofBritain as well.
(06:15):
Don't forget about US police.
that was really an unbelievableexperience and it really brought
full circle a lot of.
My family and a lot of myexperiences up to that point in
my life.
And you worked for the Scoutsfor five years and then also
pivoting into a legal career.
(06:37):
Yeah.
Tell us more about what you'redoing today in terms of
courtroom.
Yeah, so today I am a trialattorney.
I'm managing attorney at Tubman,so I teach a lot of.
trial skills to volunteerattorneys who are part of our,
what we call safety project and,uh, family law project.
And, uh, I also teach new staffattorneys, uh, similar skills.
(07:04):
Before that, I was a felonyprosecutor in Washington County
and that's where I really waslucky enough to hone my trial
skills with some reallyincredible mentors.
Most of whom are either retiredor no longer with us.
But, uh, gosh, it was aprivilege to work with the team
that was there.
And then everybody else, for themost part, I think there are two
(07:25):
people left in that group at, atWashington County and everyone
else is a judge now.
So you joined a lodge while incollege at Morris Golden Chief.
What was the catalyst to say Iwanna be a Freemason, even while
I'm in college with a lot ofother obligations at the time?
So shout out to Golden ChiefLodge.
(07:46):
I, John Amon.
was absolutely influential inbringing me in.
I, he was my boss at the time.
I told him about how I have along family history of masonry
that skipped my father.
So it's grandfather's back.
and John said, well, hey, cometo a meeting.
(08:07):
And uh, I did.
And they had spaghetti dinnersand other dinners.
And as a college student, gosh,that was pretty nice.
It's a good start.
It was a great start.
And then after that, we.
We went through the wholeprocess of becoming a mason.
You know, I'll, I'll neverforget, Yeah.
(08:28):
Started more as a socialinteraction.
A hundred percent.
It was, it was a slow processand I think it was really good
that it was a slow process.
It.
Made me feel like masonry, uh,forgive the, the, the parallel
here, but is a rock and it's notgoing anywhere.
(08:51):
So wherever I went, I couldalways return to my rock.
And I got initiated on my 21stbirthday.
So I went from that, you know,out to the Legion and we had a
good time.
Little, little doublecelebration.
Little double celebration.
Okay.
It was great.
And uh, and then I came backafter the lobbying stint, one
(09:15):
summer just to be raised.
And I haven't been back toMorris much since, but Masonry
has always been that rock and Iwas.
I knew, I knew I was a mason.
I know I am a mason all the waythrough that time, but I was,
(09:35):
for all intents and purposes,inactive for a while.
You know, I had to figure stuffout and I knew how important it
was to me to pay my dues and dothat.
That was, that was kind of theextent of my participation for a
bit.
And finally, I got where Iwanted to be situated in
Stillwater and joined St.
John's, but.
(09:57):
I bet we have a lot of brotherslike that, that are waiting for
that moment, that are waitingfor the ask, that are waiting
for the thing that are waitingto come participate again or to
participate for the first time.
But they know full well theirmasons.
They're just trying to figurethat out, figure out their
(10:17):
timing.
We often underestimate theawkwardness of someone that
needed a little time to go takecare of things in their lives,
their family, their job, theircareer development, and they
often feel a little sheepishcoming back and ask themselves,
I've had these conversationswith many brothers, does my
(10:40):
lodge even want me?
Is it cool if I come back?
And obviously the answer isresoundingly yes.
but somehow in the process, thatassumption is made.
We don't see him.
Maybe we haven't kept in contactwith him.
We talked about what, knowingwhat's going on in each other's
lives, and then as that timeincreases, there's a bit of a
(11:03):
complex that someone may haveand instead of taking the first
step to reach out, they mightjust disappear.
I'm, I'm nodding along as you'resaying all this, Reid.
It's, uh, it's so true and it'sso in your head.
I regularly tell my brothers,please show up late, please.
(11:23):
If you can't wear a suit today,that's fine.
I still want to see you.
The lodge still wants to see youshow up, be a part of this.
You know, if you got a, youknow, if stated it's at seven 30
and you can't show up till eight30, well guess what?
You know something's probablyhappening after lodge.
And on top of that, show up andbe a part of what is left of
(11:44):
Lodge.
the other piece is I try to tellpeople who are taking that break
when I know that they're takingit.
Don't feel bad about it.
Please don't.
Let that guilt get in the way ofcoming back.
cause it is guilt, right?
It is awkward or it's, you know,oh, we haven't seen this guy.
(12:05):
Hey, if someone is paying theirdues and someone is trying to
just stay engaged, they'regetting your emails.
Are they reading every one ofthem?
Who knows if you're active, whoknows if everyone's reading the
emails?
Okay.
Yes.
But I, at the end of the day,the.
The invite, the openness thatrock being able to return to the
(12:26):
rock is so important.
And if you think about it thatway, the rock hasn't worn that
much, you know, in, in alifetime.
So it's there.
Where are you?
If only we took the proactiveapproach.
(12:47):
When we don't see someone inlodge, haven't heard from them
in a little while, maybe theirsocial media presence has been
quiet, if they were otherwise onthere frequently, and ask the
question, how are you?
What's new in life?
Instead of just assuming, well,he doesn't come around much, he
must not care anymore, thatthat's usually the flashpoint
(13:09):
for the alienation.
That begins that quiet, awkwardstandoff of.
Do they even want me and thebrother's saying, where is he?
Who wants to make the first stepproactively to simply say, how
are you brother?
We've been thinking about you.
We miss seeing you.
But first, tell us about life asa mason.
(13:34):
One of the thing, first thingsthat we have to do in every
setting is check our ego.
That goes both ways in thatsetting, right?
Active brotherhood, you'rereaching out.
You are, not adding somevillainous intent to someone not
showing up.
You're checking your ego andthen when you receive that call,
(13:58):
'cause you haven't been aroundin a while or what have you,
check your ego.
Don't worry about what's on yourmind or what's, you know, what,
whatever is there.
You know, even that sheepishembarrassed feeling.
No, we're just happy to see you.
Everyone is happy to betogether.
Isn't it nice to dwell togetheras brothers?
(14:23):
I saw another great quote fromErnest Hemingway.
I'm gonna read it.
It's not short.
In our darkest moments.
We don't need solutions oradvice.
What we yearn for is simplyhuman connection, a quiet
presence, a gentle touch.
(14:45):
These small gestures are theanchors that hold us steady when
life feels like too much.
Please don't try to fix me.
Don't take on my pain or pushaway My shadows just sit beside
me as I work through my owninner storms.
Be the steady hand I can reachfor as I find my way.
(15:10):
My pain is mine to carry mybattles mine to face.
But your presence, your presencereminds me.
I'm not alone in this vast,sometimes frightening world.
It's a quiet reminder that I amworthy of love even when I feel
broken.
(15:31):
So in those dark hours, when Ilose my way, will you just be
here?
Not as a rescuer, but as acompanion.
Hold my hand until the dawnarrives.
Helping me remember my strength.
Your silent support is the mostprecious gift you can give.
(15:53):
It's a love that helps meremember who I am, even when I
forget.
That to me captures the coreessence of what brotherhood is.
I agree that the words areincredibly powerful, and you add
(16:18):
in the context of Hemingwayhimself and the imperfections of
the man who wrote those words,add another layer.
The, those are admirable words.
I don't know that if you askedHemingway, if he were sitting
here today, he would say, ohyeah, I ascribed all of that.
Right?
He would say, probably say a fewfour letter words, but at the
(16:41):
end of the day, he would, uh, hewas quick, I think in his, in
his ways to check that ego andadmit to his shortcomings.
And because of that, we can hearbetter his intention in those
words.
And I love that.
so as we talk about brotherhood,the human to human connection,
(17:05):
how vital that is to have asuccessful lodge, to have a
successful anything, a place ofwork where we are usual
advocation of house of worship,any of those places where the
connection is hollow, therelationships are.
Fake or transparent.
Let's go with, let's go withjust generic.
(17:28):
That's not a recipe for successunless there's that authenticity
baked into that.
As we talk about the Masonicexperience again and again, the
battle cry is, well, we justneed more members.
And ironically, while lodges areinitiating a new class of
(17:48):
members.
They're usually asking orseeking more members and not
giving the proper attention orthe mentoring to the members who
were just initiated.
We become really good at puttingmembers through the paces.
Feels like we're going onautopilot in that scenario.
(18:13):
Where do we find that balancebetween new members, but looking
at it as an infinite perspectiveand ensuring that the experience
is a quality one, not just forthe new guys, but for the
existing members.
At the same time, the Masonicexperience is bespoke.
(18:35):
It is something that needs to benarrowly tailored.
To every individual that comesthrough our Westgate.
The process of tailoring thatexperience is how you engage the
old with the new.
It's how you shape the future.
And if you're doing it right,it's individualized.
(18:58):
It's not autopilot.
It's individualized to the guysthat come in and say, I'm here
because I want to help thecommunity.
Okay.
Great.
That's a, that's a veryadmirable thing, and we want to
nurture that.
Or the guy that says, I'm herebecause I want to be a better
person.
(19:19):
I want to improve myself as aman.
Personal growth.
Personal growth.
That's different than the, thecharitable a aspirations of
another brother.
Uh, and so that means that theirintake, that their, their
involvement into thebrotherhood.
Looks different.
(19:39):
You're pairing those people withdifferent mentors.
You're presenting them withdifferent people that will
provide them differentperspectives so that they have a
bespoke experience that speaksto their needs and their desires
and masonry.
At some point, the rest willcome along.
The person that wants to docharity, charity is gonna become
a better man.
(20:00):
The person that says I can neverdo ritual, eventually can
probably do ritual.
All of those things will comewith time and getting that
transit transitory period of newmember to the long game.
That's where we, in my opinion,are having issues in masonry
(20:21):
right now.
That's where we've been spendinga ton of time at St.
John's trying to figure out howto individually work with each
new member and to provide themthe things that they want to be
a part of.
Even if that just means Ijoined, I realized this is a
lot, I've made it through thesecond degree.
Now I'm gonna have a kid, or nowI'm gonna go out in my world
(20:43):
and, and I have to travel a lotfor a new job.
Okay, we're right back to theconversation that says, don't
feel bad about that.
You're not abandoning us, we'rethe rock that you can come back
to.
And so that means we'retailoring each experience how it
needs to go.
And it's so important that we dothat because then we create
(21:04):
lasting members in a, in a, abasis of members that are, are,
are gonna come back, that aregoing to build as they have the
time and opportunity to do it.
And yes, we need new members.
Reid, I totally agree.
But we also need the old membersthat we have to participate in a
(21:26):
new way in that those, thosebrothers, the older brothers
that figure out and are, arefiguring out just how to not get
in the way, but instead nurturethe new, even if that might be
uncomfortable for them.
(21:47):
That's a beautiful thing.
That's checking your ego.
That's brotherhood.
The more I think about that 24inch gauge, if we really respect
that notion of dividing ourtime, it will really, not just
for ourselves, but how we canapply that in our understanding
(22:10):
of our brothers and theirchallenges with time and
commitments in life.
yes, you have to go tend towhatever it is in your life and
we support you in that.
that's, that's powerful stuff.
I know you're having a lot ofproactive conversations at your
lodge at St.
(22:30):
John's, number one.
Have you delved into what thefuture of Freemasonry looks
like?
Is that something you guys talkabout when you plan this, when
you try to unpack all of theselayers of the Masonic
experience?
Yes.
tell us more.
(22:53):
Uh, at St.
John's, it's probably our numberone focus is the future, and
that is divided up into, thefinancial future, the membership
future, the ritual future, theprogram future.
Those are probably the, the fourcategories that we're focused
(23:14):
on.
Everyone's got a different partof it that they're, they're kind
of drawn to or feel good about.
And so tapping into the rightpeople is helpful.
It's created a situation wherewe have more active committees
than we've ever had in recentmemory, and we are constantly
focused on what we frankly don'thave.
(23:39):
We don't have the breadcrumbs.
Beyond the ritual.
And don't get me wrong, theritual's got a lot of
breadcrumbs in there, but wedon't have the the breadcrumbs
of why did this money exist inthis pot, in this way, from
(24:00):
Worshipful master to Worshipfulmaster.
You know, why?
Why is it that, that our bespokemembership experience isn't
written down?
Why don't we have a process sothat we have at least an ideal
that we can strive for?
There's, and there are a lot ofresources out there that are
(24:25):
dated, But how to bring in amason has changed.
How to provide a bespokeexperience in 2025 has changed
from 1990.
You know, it, it's just, it'snot the same and adjusting and
figuring that out, but having toinvent the wheel again is, is
(24:48):
something we're constantlythinking about.
And then writing it down so thatthe next group of guys at least
understands.
Why we made a decision the waywe made it.
You know, if the, you know, ifthis issue or that issue is
controversial, rather thanburying it, embrace the
emulation, embrace the fact thatthat happened, write it down and
(25:13):
then put a warning sign on it sothe next guy doesn't fall in
that pothole.
It's so true.
We could see that going back inminutes from years gone by.
you look back in the minutes ahundred years ago, and some of
the quote unquote escalatedsituations were very similar,
very parallel to today, However,when that institutional
(25:36):
knowledge gets lost or when weget lazy in sharing the
institutional knowledge with thenext generation, it's easy to
start going through the motions.
Uh, we open, we read theminutes.
Nobody has any education readyfor tonight.
We'll just call it a night.
And there that bespokeexperience takes a hit and some
(25:57):
of that quality of experience,while it may have been a gradual
erosion, what goes from gradualto being sudden.
And I commend you guys foraddressing that head on in
seeking ways to problem solve.
To really look at from a higherlevel of how we can ensure we're
(26:20):
providing a quality experienceto all of our members.
'cause like you said, everyone'scoming with a little different
source of passion, whether it'scommunity engagement, personal
growth, seeking that mentormentee, authentic friendship and
brotherhood.
Everyone's wired a littledifferently, but we all come
together under the same set ofembracing our core values.
(26:46):
You're totally right.
And preparing for our futurerequires accepting our
impermanence on this planet inlodge.
Our relevance in lodge on thisplanet there, there's an arc of
(27:07):
time that, that we're travelingupon that, uh.
Both relevance and existence,uh, decrease potentially over
time, and there's an egocomponent to that, checking that
ego, figuring out how to embraceand plan for the future.
(27:29):
You know, someday I'll be inlodge and I'll be the old guy in
the corner.
All I can hope and pray for isthat I don't get in the way.
Because I, of course, have anego.
I of course want to think thatmy idea is the right one, but
the mere fact that somebody elseis coming up with my same idea
(27:50):
doesn't mean that I need to tellthem that, oh, yeah, that's my
idea.
That was mine.
Yeah.
Right.
No, it's, it's that, that's agreat idea.
How can I help you with that?
You've probably got some ideassince it was your idea too, but
you, you, you don't.
Stifle that new idea.
You take the guys that have theimperfect ideas and you try to
(28:13):
grow them, you try to figure outhow to embrace them, and that is
a level of masonry that I thinkwe as a, as a trending younger
lodge right now are trying towrap our, our heads around
trending younger across thestate in many instances.
(28:34):
And as you're talking.
It occurred to me We prideourselves on being
non-sectarian, apolitical.
These are things that havelikely kept us in business for
all of these years.
But what does that actuallyequate?
Check your ego.
Sure.
I have an opinion.
You have an opinion.
The person next to us, we allhave different backgrounds,
(28:55):
different convictions.
However, to walk into thethreshold of a lodge and leave
our personal passions, strongopinions at the door, and
getting to know one another ashumans, as friends and as
brothers.
And there's space for that.
Everywhere we look.
(29:15):
Everywhere you go is a mason.
There is space to connect inways that are not partisan, in
ways that are not vitriolic, inways that are absolutely
supportive.
If everything we do supportseach other, we will survive for
the next millennia, and it'sgonna be a beautiful, beautiful
(29:37):
thing as we set up for the nextthousand years of masonry.
That's the, the, we've shownthat we can survive and stand
the test of time.
Now that we have that foresight,we can plan for a thousand
years, we can talk about,alright, this year we have the
(29:57):
University of Minnesota in athousand years.
Why isn't it the University ofMinnesota Masonic educational
institution?
I'm not, let me be clear.
I'm not saying we take over theUniversity of Minnesota, but
you're thinking big.
That's right.
Think big.
Yeah.
Dream.
Dream as a lodge.
Dream as a mason, we got thereas masons before we dreamed a
(30:23):
country and we built thebackbone of this nation.
Let's make masons that again.
Let's figure out a way that wecan better support every single
person that comes our way On thetopic of support, you're a busy
(30:51):
dad, busy husband.
Your wife recently hadsuccessful surgery at the
Masonic Cancer Center at theuniversity.
She did.
She, uh, fe at the end ofFebruary this past year.
Um, my wife had some medicalcomplications, which turned out
(31:15):
to, at least in part, caused by.
A very large brain tumor in thefrontal part of her brain, and
it took up more than half of herbrain.
The care we were getting wasn'tmeeting the standards that we
(31:38):
expected of modern medicine, so,uh, not because the.
Not because of of the wrongscalpel or the wrong scientific
thing.
It was because there was acommunication issue in the
day-to-day stuff.
So we started looking around andwe found, uh, the Minnesota
Masonic Institutes at, at the Uof M and we found Dr.
(32:03):
Van Dyker, Dr.
Van Tyer.
Um, well, I have a wife becauseof Dr.
Van Tyer.
Who is alive.
My children have a mother who isalive, and he took out the
entirety of that tumor down aslow as he could without taking
(32:28):
away the function of her legs,uh, to the point where you can't
even see it on an MRI.
He knows there's a little bitleft and that, that, to me, it
was, it was funny to listen tohim talk about it because in his
mind.
He was almost talking about thatas, as in his mind is like, I
couldn't do more.
Wow.
You know, and, and it was, thatwas frustrating to him.
(32:50):
But gosh, what he did for us,what he's done for us, what the
Masons have done to get himthere is pretty incredible.
'cause I was talking to him andI, I said, you know, do you know
about the Masons?
All that stuff?
He goes, I wouldn't be here.
In this place at this hospital,if it were not for the Minnesota
(33:15):
Masonic charities.
When I was looking to find aplace to build my career home,
there was a$25 million giftgiven to the University of
Minnesota by the MinnesotaMasonic Charities.
If that didn't happen, Iwouldn't be here today and I
wouldn't be able to be operatingon your wife.
(33:36):
Oh, the full circle experiencethere.
That full moment of we went outin the world, I tried to help
save my wife's life as best wecould.
Right?
She tried to save hers too, andwe didn't find what we were
looking for.
So we asked and we saw it, andwe knocked and we found, and
(34:03):
what we found was right back tothe masons in your backyard,
even right in our backyard.
This is, this is no pun intendedto no brainer here.
Uh, you know, the, the MinnesotaMasonic charities, the planning
ahead that our brothers havedone in that I only wish they'd
(34:27):
done it for their lodges to,because if our lodges were in
the same shape the charities isright now, we'd be having a lot
of different conversationsaround masonry.
But we have time still.
We can get this right.
We have a map.
Yeah.
You know, and, and let's followthat map and set ourselves up
and set up our communities forthe next thousand years of
(34:50):
masonry.
We have that opportunity indeed.
And for whatever reason, whetherit's because.
We're human, or because we'remasons, we love to talk about
things ad nauseum.
However, now we can actuallymake some decisions and make
(35:15):
progress.
Why is it we won't execute onsomething?
If there's no guarantee of thatmassive overnight success,
Progress does not always have tobe loud or fast, just make
progress.
But we have to get out of thethe rumination trap to do that.
(35:39):
Yes.
And that means if we try an ideaonce.
We need to, if five guys showup, if five guys in your
community show up to this idea,that's not a failure.
That's a data point.
It's not a trend.
'cause you don't have enoughdata points.
(36:01):
Go figure out, you know, thefirst time you throw an event,
the first time you do somethingnew, make a data point.
Understand that it might not beperfect the first time, but
don't give up on it.
You just put a bunch of timeinto something you just put, you
just put your, your blood,sweat, and tears into.
Whatever program it is, whateverthing you want to do.
And if it doesn't get through orif it doesn't, if you don't
(36:24):
have, uh, an amazing success thefirst time, that doesn't mean
that you just stop building thebuilding.
It means you go buy morematerials, go go get more
stones, and go get more brothersinvolved and build that building
until the point that everybodywants to go sit in the shade of
your building Get together orwhatever, you know, do something
(36:46):
fun and oh by the way, figureout a way to include your family
because Masonry also needsfamilies to support it.
Sure.
We're men doing work of men, butwe have a lot of other
institutions that are great andthat are really involved, but
(37:08):
sometimes.
Our families don't necessarilywant to get involved in those,
but they do wanna support us asmen in what we're doing.
And the way that we can makethat more palatable is by having
more programs that are inclusiveof everybody who supports us in
(37:29):
our Masonic experiences.
You are obviously someonestretched for time, a career, a
wife and kids.
You know your wife is recoveringsuccessfully from her procedure.
Please give her our best and ourlove.
I would imagine you think about,or you've had hobbies and
(37:52):
certain things that you've beenable to do before you had such a
a time crunch.
What lapsed hobby would you liketo return to Broomball?
I played broomball, uh, for along time, which is kinda like
hockey, but with shoes.
And, uh, I played it at a prettyhigh level, um, which was fun.
(38:16):
You know, I, I was a part of atraveling team in DC we'd
actually wind up traveling toMinnesota a lot.
So really that was nice.
I'd, you know, travel home,because there's a lot of brim
ball here.
But we'd traveled to Syracuse,New York, and Ohio and, Nebraska
and all around the country, um,playing.
I.
(38:36):
That was, that was a, it's, it'sa tough sport.
I mean, h you know, hockey is,is hard on your joints, hard on
your person.
Uh, I'm, I'm a goalie by bothbuild and mentality.
Um, I'd love to go back to that.
You know, joints, joints,permitting.
(38:57):
I'm glad you mentioned thatbecause I had the thought I was
queuing up to say, to ask, I'veknown many friends, I haven't
played broom ball since collegein the nineties, but people I
know still playing injuries allthe time.
Why?
You're not on skates.
Why is that?
You're still on ice.
Yeah.
You know, gravity plus iceequals broken.
Okay.
And, uh, you know, you're stillrunning after balls.
(39:20):
You're still running into eachother.
You're still doing all thosethings.
And you, if you're playing atreally high levels, uh.
It's almost safer than playingat the rec league levels because
those guys that are playing atthe really high levels can
control themselves on the ice.
Those people that are figuringout how to control themselves on
the ice are human wrecking ballsthat are keeping orthopedic
(39:44):
surgeons in business.
What was the first majorhistorical event you remember
witnessing?
Two pop into my head.
One was Ventura got elected.
Uh, that was pretty interesting.
Uh, that threw my parents for aloop.
(40:05):
What was a surprise to most?
Yeah, it was a surprise to most.
Um, I remember being at afriend's house and having no
idea what I was watching.
And, uh, you know, now inhindsight.
Going, whoa.
That, that was a big deal.
Mm-hmm.
The other one is nine 11.
Um, I was in, I was in, uh,eighth grade.
(40:26):
I got pulled outta schoolbecause my dad worked at the
Wells Fargo building inMinneapolis, and that was one of
the potential threats, um, oneof the, one of the potential
threat buildings.
And so, you know, it was awhole, um.
You know, I got pulled outtaschool, my dad got pulled outta
(40:47):
work and it was a whole thing.
And I remember what, I rememberplaying with Legos in my room,
watching a television andwatching these buildings fall
over into, over and over again.
And that shaped my generation inmany ways.
(41:08):
that shaped.
I think a lot of where we aretoday, um, you know, there are
two types of people.
Those people who remember whenyou could just walk up to the
gate to fly and those peoplethat will never know that and,
uh, that that changed the world.
I.
(41:30):
What argument are you tired ofhaving?
You know, Reid, it's prettyfunny.
Uh, off the record, a momentago, I said I wanted to.
Talk about something that, uh,uh, would not be Masonic.
You pointed out to me this ideathat there's a difference
between Masonic and Masonic andthat we have members that might,
(41:54):
uh, feel one way or anotherabout this.
Goodness gracious.
Am I sick and tired of peoplebeing, having, having arguments
about that.
Figure out a way to fund yourscholarships, figure out a way
to support your members, figureout a way to do things and
support your people that aren'tfighting about the difference
between Masonic and Mason.
I mean, I, what the heck are thedoodles?
(42:16):
As my kids would say, that's abluey quote for all the parents
out there.
And you know what?
Like, let's stop having thesearguments that mean nothing.
Figure out a way.
Masonry is where we can figureout a way to be.
Men, do do things that aregreater than us.
Figure out a way that you can dosomething greater than yourself
because you can hear and itmatters.
(42:41):
Thank you for having me on thepodcast, Reid.
I mean, I, I really appreciateeverything that you're doing.
I appreciate everything thatGrand Lodge is doing.
Um, I will, I, I wanna say thisbecause I don't know the next
time I'm gonna get a platformlike this, so I'm gonna say it
loud and proud.
Support, support, people,support Grand Lodge, support the
(43:02):
people that show up to work hereevery day.
That are working for thebetterment of the craft.
Figure out a way that you canask someone how you can help
them.
And then go follow up on thatand do the thing.
Figure out a way that you canmake a difference.
And then follow up on the hardthings.
(43:22):
Easy things are fun.
Figure out a way to do the hardstuff, and we're gonna all
support each other into the nextmillennia of the craft.
Ben Lacey, I appreciate youbeing in studio today.
Until next time.
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