July 25, 2025 • 43 mins
“The truly impactful people? Their peers trust them, because of who they are…not what they say they are…but WHO they are.”
There’s so much depth to our ritual when we reflect beyond just “the words.” This week we sit down with our Grand Lodge Education Officer and discuss a wide range of topics, from slowing down our daily grind to inspiring others. Do you have what it takes to be a positive "spark plug" in your lodge?
“Is the length of your cable tow based on what you CAN do or what's convenient to you? Stop focusing on the past and focus on the future…and where you want to go.”
Put on your riding gear and fire up the Harley, this road trip we’re in search of calmness, impact, and peace.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
He plucked off his shoe and gaveit to his neighbor.
We're told that he did this toconfirm all things.
There it ends.
Why would the plucking off ofone shoe be a confirmation of
anything?
We do it all the time.
Many of us have donated shoes toGoodwill.
(00:23):
There's really nothing uncommonin the act of plucking off our
shoes and giving them away, oris there to us today.
Perhaps not, but it should.
If you consider the conditionsof 3000 or more years ago,
you'll get an idea of what itmeant to give your shoe or
(00:43):
sandal to another.
The Book of Ruth and the HolyBible is a thought provoking
story.
Actually, it contains severallessons any of us could use.
The author Alan E.
Roberts was concerned with onlyone here, Boaz and Ruth.
Boaz wanted to, wed Ruth and thecircumstances of land.
(01:08):
And several other factors werecomplicated.
He wanted to, wed Ruth, but todo it, he had to buy land and to
confirm this purchase, Heplucked off his shoe.
A simple act, but significant.
Consider what it really meantfor a man to give up his shoes
in that primitive country.
(01:29):
It meant he had to walk barefootover hot, rocky, rough ground.
It meant he was giving up animportant portion of his
creature comforts.
It's doubtful that any man thenowned more than one pair of
sandals to regain his shoe.
He had to fulfill his pledge inplucking off his shoe.
(01:52):
He was pledging his honor.
Not all that long ago, ahandshake was all that was
really needed to seal a promise.
Times do change.
Not too many decades ago, theextending of the right hand
proved that a man came in peacethat he concealed no weapon.
So the extending and joining ofright hands became a friendly
(02:14):
gesture.
Every man who enters Freemasonryplucked off his shoe.
In doing so, you made a solemnpledge.
The other preparations forinitiation into the mysteries of
Freemasonry, added to thatpledge.
You know what this pledge was?
(02:34):
You promised to keep all theobligations you assumed as you
advanced in the craft.
We can ask ourselves anotherquestion.
What would be the legendarybeginning of Freemasonry if Boaz
had not plucked off his shoe?
Would there even be anorganization called Freemasonry
(02:55):
if he had not plucked off hisshoe?
He would not have married Ruth.
She would not have had a sonthat they named Jesse.
If he hadn't been born, therewould've been no King David, the
father of Solomon, Brad Phelps.
Have you plucked off that shoelately?
(03:16):
You know, without overthinkingthis too much, my immediate
reaction is, does it matter whatI answer to that?
Or is it more important thatsomebody else say I had.
That's why I love ourconversations and happy to have
you back in studio today.
Brad Phelps Grand LodgeEducation Officer for Minnesota
Freemasons.
(03:37):
Great to see you again.
Oh, it's very good to see youtoo, Reid.
Good to be here.
So this book by Alan Roberts hasbeen around a long time.
It's called the Mystic Tie, andit's one that is fun to
occasionally just open upPlucking off of one shoe when we
really think about it, is veryimpactful, but also something
maybe we just sort of forgetabout in the significance of
(04:01):
preparing a candidate,especially for the first time as
they're first starting thedegree process.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I.
They're, they're engaging onsomething new many times.
I don't know totally whatthey're engaging in.
We don't expect them to look ata lot of information about
Freemasonry'cause we don't wantthem to spoil the experience.
(04:21):
Uh, it's hopeful.
I think that they have some ideathough, at what they're about to
embark in.
Not necessarily for what they'regonna witness, but the type of
values.
The type of heart that they'regonna encounter, uh, in their
interactions, um, future, futureendeavors in the craft.
(04:43):
When you look back on being inthat same position, you're about
to begin the process of goingthrough the degrees.
I don't know about you, but Ihad a misperception of what that
would be like.
I thought it was going to bedifferent than the reality of.
Sharing core values and timelessphilosophies and ways in which I
(05:08):
personally, everyone who's amember can and should be
embracing those things in ourlives.
I had a very romantic view whenI came into the lodge.
Uh, I remember the whole timebeing maybe a little bit
nervous.
There's a lot of legend and lorea about us.
(05:30):
But I knew some people that wereexamples and people that I
looked up to, and the wholetime, throughout the whole
experience of coming intoMasonry, I just remembered that
all of the people around me, uh,believed in the same things and
were just like the people thatinspired me to come in in the
(05:50):
first place.
even now, almost 20 years later,it still hits me that it's so
important to be the example.
When you think of those who haveinspired you over the years, or
some of those that were theexample, the first guys that
(06:11):
come to mind are not usually theloudest or the most showy.
I don't know how to describethat.
No, you're, you're right.
And it's, it's been actually atopic, a conversation needs
outside of Masonry as well, um,in leadership circles that,
There's this misconception thatpeople should be the first to
(06:31):
speak because that shows theircompetence.
And somewhere along the line, Iread some quote that said
something, uh, along the linesof, if you speak up, trying to
prove that you are not ignorantand you don't think about the
(06:52):
words you're, you're using.
Then you leave everyone aroundyou, no doubt of what you are.
And you know, it's, it's verystriking.
And so you see these people thatprobably don't have as much
self-esteem, maybe they haveintelligence trying to be the
first ones out of the gate, to,to share their opinions.
(07:16):
And it's pretty much leadership1 0 1, although a very hard
thing to practice.
To be someone who listens.
And I've read, read a lot ofdifferent books that say that is
such a wonderful thing as aleader and sort of a cheat
because now you get the benefitof everybody else's
(07:38):
perspectives.
Uh, I think there's a lot tothat.
And not only that, but if youopen yourself to it.
There's absolutely so much wecan learn from the various
perspectives that are around us.
It makes us truly better andit's one of the, the Secrets of
Masonry.
(07:58):
It's a recurring theme in theconversations we have here about
the importance of authenticity.
In my travels, seeing lodges ona regular basis, the most
successful in big air quotes,aren't necessarily the biggest,
or maybe writing the largestchecks to the people in need in
(08:21):
the community.
They're, they're doing that, butthe most successful lodges.
Have a thread of authenticity,friendship, love for one
another, and true concern foreach other in life's challenges
and in life's victories.
(08:43):
They truly have coalesced aroundthese things.
They're more than justbuzzwords.
The, the things that we say, thewords that we use, the value
teachings, words likebrotherhood are not just a
platitude said in the lodgesetting, but they're, they
really have it in the heart.
And that is so striking to me isall these years we've just
(09:04):
somehow been, generallyspeaking, chasing after numbers
or concerned about.
a line item on a spreadsheet.
Maybe there's opportunity for usto slow down and cultivate over
the long haul, what it means tobe friends and brothers and
(09:27):
those who truly care about andlove each other.
Oh, absolutely.
A hundred percent.
Does, does that sound trite?
Is that just a, a pipe dream?
No.
No.
And, and I think both you and Iknow people like that.
so I came in and I thoughteveryone would be that way, not
recognizing as somebody that wasbeginning my journey, that we're
(09:48):
all in different places.
We have, we have symbols thattalk about our evolution.
And some people are on thebeginning of their journey, some
people are further along.
And the thing that reallystrikes me is there's this sense
of calmness for those peoplethat have really discovered
(10:09):
what's important.
And you highlighted some of themin, in what you were describing.
Let me ask you this.
If I were to ask you withoutthinking too much.
Who to you is somebody inMasonry that you either have or
do now look up to?
And why?
(10:30):
it's an interesting thing, and Ihope you don't edit this out.
A friend of mine and I weretalking one day and we were
reflecting on these greatbrothers that were here in life,
and we just never took the timeeither because of where we
entered into the craft or wherethese brothers were to get to
know them, and we find out allthese wonderful things about'em.
(10:52):
And adding on to that maybe alittle bit, have you ever
noticed how much goes unsaidwhen we're here, but at our
funerals?
All that stuff comes up.
Yes.
What a shame.
So I go back to my question andyou know, nobody should feel bad
because of who you picked.
There's no favoritism.
(11:13):
I'm just saying go with yourgut.
Who's the first person thatcomes to mind?
I'm gonna go with someone whomI've known from a distance for a
number of years, but have onlyrecently really been going a few
layers deeper in getting to knowthe person.
And it's Zev ick.
Hmm?
Yes.
Zeb I was first introduced to inthe York, right.
(11:36):
He's an exceptional, ritualistfriendly guy.
His ability to memorize and andto execute is very enviable, to
say the least.
But Zeb is working on a numberof different things within his
own lodge and is being such aninspiring leader.
(11:57):
In seeing the value ofcollaborating with community
bringing all of these differentpieces together, I really admire
that someone like him doesn't doit in a way of listen to me, I'm
the expert, and do as I say, zb,is good at selling the outcome.
If we do this, if we collaboratewith this group, we're all going
(12:20):
to benefit from it.
It's that servant leader with noreal agenda other than a love
for the craft, A sincereenjoyment of the friends and
brothers around him.
That building of authenticrelationships.
And to your earlier point, howmany of our friends and, and
(12:44):
whether it's within the lodgesetting or our neighborhood or
our jobs, we know somebody froma distance.
We know a little bit about them.
We know their family.
We made their hobbies, theirkids names, the activities that
they're in.
What would it take for us toslow down a notch or two?
Because like you said, we go toa funeral and learn all of these
(13:06):
things and think, God, how did Inot know this?
Part of what I've enjoyed aboutthis podcast, this is maybe the
most fun one hour a week wespend here, and the feedback of
interviewing brothers like.
John L.
Cook and Gerald Rhodes, and youand so many others that have
come back.
The emails, the texts, wow, Ihad no idea that his life
(13:31):
experience was X, Y, and Z.
A hundred percent.
Have you?
Hmm.
Couple things.
It's really interesting that youpicked Z.
I don't know if you know, he'sone of my dearest friends.
Uh, we were talking about I didnot know that.
Yeah.
I knew you were friends, but notOh, yeah.
No kidding.
We, we did ritual together inthe Scottish rite together in
(13:53):
some pretty key degrees.
Uh, he was an inspiration for meto study tremendously.
I think he knows how much Ithink of him, but Amanda knows,
and, and this isn't meant to bedark, but if something happens
to me, He's the guy, I want todo my service.
My wife knows that.
And you don't just pick anybodyfor that.
(14:15):
Right.
If you, if you call that out,it's important.
By the way, Sean Kerrick willthank me for bringing this up,
let your family know what youwant.
'cause we're all gonna face thatat some point.
And, uh, anyway, I agree witheverything you said about him.
He is a true inspiration.
I think a lot of it is becauseit's more.
(14:35):
It's more than what he says.
It's what he does.
And that brings up a tremendousamount of, of credibility.
And there's been times whereI've really needed him and he's,
he's been showed compassion bothby being there, uh, to hear what
I had to say, but there, therewas no, I'm gonna tell Brad what
(14:56):
he wants to hear.
It was, I'm gonna be honest,which is a sign of a really true
friend.
I.
going on to some of the otherthings you said.
There's a, there's a talk from,we've talked about Simon Sinek
before, so I know you, you watchhim too.
There's this video where hetalks about finding your why.
Have you ever, have you everseen that?
(15:17):
Yes.
you really dig into Why are youmy friend?
And there it's, there's surfacelevel stuff that you'll probably
hear in return.
You keep going at this.
And then finally.
Something will be said thatsends shivers up your spine.
Yeah.
And it's because that's whatresonates with you.
And, uh, I think we focus toomuch on some of the other things
(15:42):
that aren't necessarily our why.
And I get it.
You know, I grew up when I hadkids, that's my story.
I always thought I was, but I, Iguess if you look at it, I was
probably in my thirties when I,when I truly, I.
Grew up and for me the catalystwas having to be responsible for
somebody else.
(16:04):
And, uh, you know, I meant whatI said with regard to does it
matter if I say I took off myshoe or is it more important to
hear how the act of thataffected somebody?
And I think, I think about mykids and I sure hope that, uh,
they would say after I'm gone,or even, I guess while I'm here,
(16:26):
that.
The actions I took and thethings that I did inspired them,
made them proud of me and helpedthem in their life.
And those people that realizeit, they realize it's, it's not
keeping up with the Joneses.
It's not about money.
It's not about, do I have thebiggest, the best house?
(16:48):
It's not about what car am Idriving, you know, I'm driving a
2000.
GXJ.
that didn't cost me a ton ofmoney.
And I would say it's probablyone of my favorite cars.
I've, I've had all kinds ofdifferent cars.
Why?
I like the story of it, of whereit came from, whose hands it
went through.
Went through three brothers, bythe way.
(17:09):
Did it really?
It did.
And I've modified a customizeit.
It tells some of my story.
and, and yet it's obviously notthe most important thing to me.
it's been a real journey tofigure out what the important
things are and for me, educationand being able to work with
(17:30):
people and see that, that lookof excitement when they realize
something new.
Or you and I were pa playing alittle bit with a chatbot
earlier today and that look ofshock, but it, it, it got us
thinking.
I love the process of thinkingand, and people being inspired
to do the same.
(17:51):
We spend a lot of time reallycelebrating, I love when we
teach people how to think.
And, you know, speaking of ai,it's, isn't it even more
important that we.
Know how to think, uh, the, thewhole, the whole reason for us,
(18:13):
I, I won't answer it, but if wecan't take physical things with
us Yes.
And we're here in a blink,what's the point for us to be
here?
And I think you get the answersif you really study the degrees.
Really reflect on the lessonsthat are there.
It's a journey.
There are still things that,that 20 years later I hear and
(18:35):
it, it hits me different after.
Mm-hmm.
After some of the experiencesand where I'm in, in life at 50
as opposed to, you know,thirties and, uh, certainly if I
would've been a mason in mytwenties or late teens, it would
hit different than then too, forsure.
(18:55):
There's a certain calmness.
Have you seen that the, thepeople that have kind of, I'll
say, figured it out and reallyfocus on what's important to
them.
They have this sense of peace,and I'm not the only one that's
seen it.
I've, I've heard it come fromnon masons that have interacted
with Masons.
(19:16):
What is it about these guys thatthey have so much peace?
I find that fascinating.
How would you answer that ifsomeone made that observation
and said, you see that guy overthere, maybe he doesn't even
know he is a mason, but saidthere's something different
about him.
(19:37):
How do you articulate that ifyou had to?
In the moment, there's a balanceto be had between what drives us
spiritually and what we need inthe physical world functionally.
I think the people that are atpeace have found that balance
and maybe even realize that thephysical existence we have here,
(20:00):
including all the challengesthat we face, are not the end
game.
They're not the the, the wholething.
It would be like me stewing overa test.
So if I lose my job, it's notconvenient.
But I, I heard this quote, uh,it actually came from a pastor
(20:21):
and it blew my mind, and it cameat just the right time.
Are we living our life in thehonor of the kingdom or are we
living our life to makeourselves comfortable?
And it, it, it just then shiversup my, my spine and I think.
Usually I, I don't want tostereotype, but usually the guys
(20:45):
that have that comfort, they'vebeen here for a while, they've,
they've lived life and they'veseen a lot of things, and I
think they're the ones that havehad that aha moment and just are
like.
Is it more important that Ispend the time with my family
and get to enjoy them and, andmake an impact and am with my
(21:08):
friends and so forth?
Or is it more important thatI'm, I'm worried about my job
because as I've heard this too,will pass.
And, uh, I, a lot of us will saywe have faith, but, but do we?
I mean is, is that justsomething we say because it's
(21:32):
expected to say, or do we trulyembrace that there's something
bigger and beyond?
Because it seems to me anywaythat it's kinda like you ever
looked back and something seemedlike an emergency and it was all
consuming, and then five yearslater you go, why did I spend so
many cycles worrying about that?
(21:54):
Yes, that wasn't so big.
I think a lot of us see thattoo, and our challenges get
bigger and bigger the more, themore we advance.
And I, I guess long story short,it's, it's a bigger perspective
and understanding of the truenature of things.
As I travel in this role andcontinually visit lodges and
(22:16):
have conversations.
Part of why the topic keepscoming up on this podcast about
authenticity and true friendshipand meaningful contact and
connections is that brothers arenot leaving the craft because of
say, the, the ritual wasn'tperfect or because of some other
(22:38):
specific, it's quite oftenbecause the, that promise we
make of authentic brotherhoodand friendship is missing.
Or it's hollow, or at times itfeels hypocritical.
We go through the motions ofinitiation and of sharing that
(23:00):
these are our values.
This is what we stand for.
We're not perfect.
We've all succumbeded to thetemptation of.
Saying something or worse,posting something that was
divisive, that was not helpful,that was static instead of
(23:22):
signal.
But there are culture issueswithin the lodge sometimes where
it feels like we're not tryingvery Do we try?
How much value do we place onsome of these things?
I, I know of a, a friend ofmine's attending a church and he
(23:43):
and his wife are leaving thischurch because it has become
toxic.
It has become a place whereeveryone says all the words they
keep up the appearances.
But the reality of theexperience has been incredibly
disappointing.
I.
They're going someplace else.
(24:03):
Does that, is that a parallelsometimes for a lodge in which
the toxicity, the negativity, orthe latent malcontents have
taken over the yeah.
There, I think there's a lot ofimportant things to consider
what you just said.
So the very first one is.
(24:23):
You're right.
There's a lot of polarizinglanguage on social media, and
it's tempting to go out and say,you can't do that.
You shouldn't do that.
We can't control what peoplesay.
You know what?
We can't control how we respondto it.
(24:44):
And what I've learned is.
I've taken some of these, theseguys aside, that, that have said
things that I thought were harshand instead of judging them and
saying, how dare you, or evengetting upset, I've asked, tell
me a little more about that.
I'd like to understand it evenif it was something I completely
(25:07):
disagreed with.
And there's, there's a, a, adear brother, another dear
brother that I have that, uh.
I've gotten to know, and what wefound in some of these hard
conversations is that we wantthe same things.
We just don't have the same viewon how to approach it.
And as we talk through it, wefind out that there's probably
(25:30):
validity won't even be thatwishy-washy, there is validity
in, in what each of us aresaying.
So I think there's an importantlesson to be had there about
patients.
And I think it's a shame.
Especially as Freemasons, if wecoach our guys not to talk about
hard things.
(25:50):
Isn't that a little bit akin toteaching people what to think as
opposed to how to think?
And we should be teaching thingsand we are teaching things like
civility to help people getthrough that.
And if there was ever a timewhere this was needed, it's now.
People hide behind anonymousidentities and and boards and
(26:11):
social or just aren't heldaccountable or don't think about
it.
And I think it's super importantthat we ask the right questions
as opposed to making assertionsreally try to understand where
somebody might be coming fromand give them the benefit of the
doubt.
Those are all really hardthings, but again, those calm
guys that I know, they're thatway.
(26:35):
Tell me more why, why you saidthat.
I'd like to understand itbecause they realize we're all
brothers and sisters truly, andeven some of the people just to
prepare us that say they aresuper accepting and tolerant.
that's not always true.
Because their view of toleranceisn't all that tolerant.
(26:56):
So tolerant.
As long as you think exactlylike, or we, we have shared
everything.
Possibly.
I, and you know, I get kindawhere they're coming from.
Uh, I try to be accepting ofeverybody.
There's, there's a quote fromVoltaire about this.
I won't go into it, but I try tobe accepting and understanding
that, you know.
(27:16):
I can't really understandanybody but me.
So the only way I can understandit better is if we have
conversations and, and even thenit's somewhat limited, but at
least I'm trying.
Right?
Right.
so hopefully we are not passingjudgment.
We're really engaging in aconversation not to hear what we
want to hear, but to, to get abetter understanding We're not
(27:37):
doing ourselves any favors, uh,culturally to.
Encourage people not to haveconversations.
And we're also not doingourselves any favors by
reminding everybody, especiallyin Freemasonry.
We, you know, We are brothersand sisters spiritually.
there are things in thisphysical world that, that make
(27:59):
us different.
It can be a lot of things,including our experiences, and
that's probably by design.
I I, I can imagine that what'sput in front of us is there to
help us grow.
For some people that's differentthan other things, and if we
embrace the fact that we'respiritual brothers and sisters.
(28:19):
We look at it that way andreally try to understand and try
to hold ourselves to thestandards of what we're being
taught in our lessons, and weembrace it, live it, not just
show up to a meeting and gothrough the motions, but really
live it.
We can inspire people to bebetter.
(28:41):
This is a conversation oftenmisunderstood.
This isn't some sort of lectureon you shouldn't have strong
opinions or that you should feelthis way or that way.
It's about pausing beforeposting something inflammatory.
Now, I'm not telling someoneyou, you can't do that.
(29:04):
My question always is, why wouldyou want to.
How much satisfaction did youreally get knowing that
ultimately you are alienatingprobably 50% of your friends,
your family, your everyone inthe social media world and for
what?
Yeah, there's, there'sdefinitely truth in that.
I.
(29:24):
There used to be a practice I, Idon't think a lot of people are
doing anymore, sadly, whereyou'd stop and count to 10 or,
you know, I've, I've heardpeople suggest if you're upset
about something, write a noteand then rip it up and throw it
away because, you know, you feellike you said it, but then do
you really need to say it?
Uh, so you feel like you get itoff your chest.
There's any number of ways to doit, but again, I'm gonna
(29:46):
encourage everyone that'slistening that, would consider
it.
Try to give people the benefitof the doubt, uh, and, and
remember the bigger perspective.
A friend of mine, just wentthrough having a bunch of mon
money stolen.
He forgot his wallet somewhere,and it, and it, it wasn't
returned and there was someother stuff.
(30:08):
obviously sad, it's not greatand you want to get angry, but.
There's another perspective too,that that person may have needed
it more than he too.
And so it's kind of humbling tothink about that.
it's hard.
It is.
It's super hard.
I mean, but we either embracethe lessons that are thrown at
(30:30):
us and we grow or we don't.
And I guess that gets back tosome of that.
What's, what's really important,and if it were easy, we would
all be there, right?
True.
We're not.
We're all works in progress.
We all have an opportunity tostop and ask each other, why do
(30:51):
you feel that way?
Or what's going on in your life?
To glean a little moreperspective.
We're so fast just in society tosay, well, he feels that way to
hell with him.
We can't be friends.
And then the rift begins withoutgaining a little more context.
(31:15):
If we want our lodges to growand retain our members, it is on
all of us to devote ourselvesto.
Making a solid effort to livingup to our self-imposed
guidelines, standards, and corevalues.
(31:38):
This is very tricky.
We're all, we're wired to bepassionate, to have strong
feelings, but if silence andcircumspection tolerance.
the whole human species beingone family man.
If that's just a platitude,we've got work to do.
(32:01):
Yeah.
One of my mentors professionallyonce told me,'cause I was really
struggling with somethingsimilar you're describing.
Uh, communication's a two-waystreet.
it's not only just about being agood communicator to get an idea
across, but people have to bewilling to receive it.
And sometimes, especially in thecorporate world, big comp, big
(32:25):
companies, and I've been atboth, I've been at big
companies, I've been at smallercompanies.
The bigger companies are harderto get the ship to turn.
So if you grow in leadership,you have to be comfortable with
planting a seed and beingpatient for the right time for
it to sprout.
And sometimes that takes yearsand the same can hold true in
(32:45):
the lodge.
And I guess the only real wordsof wisdom I have with regard to
this is as we advance in masonryand.
If we've been through that, tryto remember what it felt like to
be dismissed or not to be heard,so that if somebody that's
bringing up an idea or asuggestion, even if you don't
(33:07):
agree with it, uh, hear it outand listen to it and have a
conversation about it.
And try not to let our, our ownbiases, uh, make the decisions
and if it is not the right timefor that particular idea, have
that conversation too.
And, uh, just, I.
Try to find the best way, uh, touse the best of all the, all
(33:31):
ideas to win.
But I, the thing is we get, I dothink we get wrapped up on
really an important things, someof my favorite activities, share
some of those activities.
Like, like what?
How do we fix the buildingsroof?
What happens if we lose thebuilding?
(33:52):
Why didn't we raise our dueshigher years?
That's three years.
Ago's a good one.
That's, that's a good one.
our numbers falling is a, isanother good one.
Well, I remember back in thegood old days when our numbers
in 1958 were, yeah, 700 membersof our lodge and how about this
or that just gives me thecatalyst.
Stop focusing on the past andfocus on the future.
(34:17):
Where you want to go.
This conversation just came fullcircle.
'cause that is what our friendand Brother Zev is good at.
Yeah.
How are we going to take ourcurrent circumstances and work
through it to ensure lookingforward?
Yeah, it's an interesting, thisis another place where I think
(34:38):
there's balance, right?
If we don't raise new guys, thenwe're not bringing new people in
the craft to.
To be an investment in thefuture.
and it's robbing ourselves likesome of the most rewarding
interactions I've had, are withsome of the younger guys at
Rochester Lodge, seeing howexcited they're, they are about
(35:01):
education, about becoming betterat doing their floor work and
ritual.
The things that make me feelgood are, are less about like
in, in my cases, the people thatI mentor, oh, I'm successful
because Brad told me to do itthis way.
What's truly rewarding ishearing from them truly
(35:25):
heartfelt, deep things about howI acted or things that I've done
that inspired them and, andwanted them to.
Improve, and I've tried reallyhard not to give instruction
lists out to people.
If they ask me, like, especiallyfor those that are just
(35:46):
beginning, I'll give them someguidance, but I don't know about
you.
But every once in a while youhear something and you're
humbled by it because you'relike, I would've never thought
that that was an importantthing.
And in my case, somebody came upto me fairly recent and
unprompted said.
(36:07):
You have this way of makingorder out of chaos, and I don't
know what it was about that, butI'll never, ever forget that.
How'd you feel in that moment?
Well, it was like Covey's thing,or not Covey, a cynics thing
where shivers went up my spine.
There was something about thatthat resonated.
(36:27):
I couldn't really articulate foryou what it is.
Maybe it's.
It's inferred in that statementthat I somehow made their life
less chaotic, that I helped themSo that's an interesting one.
Inspiring.
Yeah, I am driven by that and.
(36:49):
There are some that would saythat's a key factor in, in
leading people.
It is truly an honor to havepeople follow because they want
to and not because they have to.
You know, we, we teach lessonsabout that too in masonry,
right?
There's a statement about thatwhen the Worshipful Masters
installed during ourinstallation ceremonies, right,
(37:10):
there's recognition that he'sjust like the rest of us, but we
give him the honor of raisinghim up for a temporary time and
trusting him.
We wouldn't trust somebody forjust any reason in a healthy
situation.
And I'm not gonna say thatdoesn't happen right now.
It's usually a numbers game whenthat does happen.
(37:31):
But the truly impactful people,I.
Their peers trust them becauseof who they are, not what they
say they are, but who they are.
And we all know those people.
we're not driven by somebody'sperception and work really hard
to be painted as somebody great.
(37:55):
But instead we're, we're honoredand trusted because we follow
through the attributes that we,we hold onto.
It's not about money.
It's not about station and life.
It's about how we impact people.
And if we care about what peoplethink, it's not because what car
I drive, what house I have,where I work, what position I
(38:17):
have, But instead I.
Because of these principles thatwe hold true principles that
resonate with the rest ofhumanity and without them even
knowing they're seeking out.
And I think that's when you havethose aspects, that's when
people will follow you becausethey want to and not because
(38:39):
they have to.
if each of us.
Wants to be a positive influencein life.
And even more specifically inlodge, people are not going to
just simply trust us because ofwhat we say.
(39:02):
They are going to follow andtrust how we behave, how we
conduct ourselves, and when weshow up, you know, we.
Everybody listening to thisknows what a cable toe is.
What I would ask them though isyour length of the cable toe
based on what you can do orwhat's convenient to you?
(39:27):
I think sometimes we mix thatup.
There are brothers who haveshowed up in my life and they
are very close to me that Iasked them for help.
Some of them at the time, Ididn't even know when they
showed up.
That was super, supermeaningful.
We're gonna embarrass that by,keep bringing him up.
But he shows up constantly when,when he's needed for ritual and
(39:51):
he doesn't show up and just readthe words, he knows him.
He is put the work in, peopleshowing up when they're asked,
even when it's not convenient.
and I'm not telling people tolike.
Damage their family life oranything like that.
But I am saying if you're askedto do something that's difficult
(40:11):
and it's within your means andyou're not going to hurt your
family or hurt your career, doit.
Sometimes even, it may seem likework, but it's, it's like my
motorcycle trips.
I've written multiple timesthat.
You're not protected from theelements.
And in the moment if you'regetting hit by hail or rain, it
sucks.
(40:32):
Okay?
It stinks for sure.
Yes.
But afterwards, the braggingrights of persevering and
pushing through it and havingthat memory, it feels awesome.
Maybe it's a little bit like aworkout at the moment.
It might really be tough, butyou know that feeling you get
when you're done it, uh.
(40:53):
I think that's a part of thedesigns between you and I Sense
of accomplishment.
Yes, exactly.
Brad Phelps, we often fail tothank you sufficiently for the
time and dedication you put intonot only your lodge, but serving
as a Grand Lodge educationofficer in Minnesota.
(41:13):
As we wind down today, we'vetalked some very compelling and
thought provoking aspects oflodge life, life outside of the
lodge.
Last word to you, sir.
We were talking about getting toknow some of the, the people
that are around us and beingpresent.
(41:34):
One of my very best friends, Imiss him dearly.
He moved back to Japan, he knewI liked motorcycles and he was
going after, uh, a particularHarley Davidson he had wanted
for a long time and asked theguys in the lodge.
Would you like to go with me toMilwaukee to pick this up?
And I took a chance.
I didn't know him that well, butI said, yeah, I'll go with you.
(41:56):
And from that came a dearfriendship.
Differences in all differencesin view.
We compliment each other.
We traveled all over the UnitedStates together on motorcycles.
He has a special place in myheart.
We may not see each other asmuch as as I would like anymore,
(42:16):
but if.
If you were to show up on mydoorstep tomorrow, five years,
10 years from now, wouldn'tmatter.
We'd pick up where we left off.
These are the types offriendships and bonds we build
in Masonry.
This is what Masonry's about.
I just encourage people, beopen-minded, experience life for
what it's really like, what it'sreally for, and appreciate our
(42:39):
spiritual brothers and sistersfor what they are and what they
give us.
And when I say I love the craftand I love the people in it, I
truly mean it.
That's what it's all about.
Author Alan E.
Roberts wrote in that book thatwe referenced earlier, the
Mystic Tie Practice.
Without that, which ye havelearned within, that's words
(43:04):
that are found over the door ofseveral lodges all over the
world.
He said, quote, this phrasemakes a lasting impression on
the minds of those who reallycare.
It reminds us that there is moreto be found in Freemasonry than
just its ritual.
(43:24):
I.
He plucked off his shoe and gaveit to his neighbor.
We're told that he did this toconfirm all things.
There it ends.
Why would the plucking off ofone shoe be a confirmation of
anything?
We do it all the time.
Many of us have donated shoes toGoodwill.
(00:23):
There's really nothing uncommonin the act of plucking off our
shoes and giving them away, oris there to us today.
Perhaps not, but it should.
If you consider the conditionsof 3000 or more years ago,
you'll get an idea of what itmeant to give your shoe or
(00:43):
sandal to another.
The Book of Ruth and the HolyBible is a thought provoking
story.
Actually, it contains severallessons any of us could use.
The author Alan E.
Roberts was concerned with onlyone here, Boaz and Ruth.
Boaz wanted to, wed Ruth and thecircumstances of land.
(01:08):
And several other factors werecomplicated.
He wanted to, wed Ruth, but todo it, he had to buy land and to
confirm this purchase, Heplucked off his shoe.
A simple act, but significant.
Consider what it really meantfor a man to give up his shoes
in that primitive country.
(01:29):
It meant he had to walk barefootover hot, rocky, rough ground.
It meant he was giving up animportant portion of his
creature comforts.
It's doubtful that any man thenowned more than one pair of
sandals to regain his shoe.
He had to fulfill his pledge inplucking off his shoe.
(01:52):
He was pledging his honor.
Not all that long ago, ahandshake was all that was
really needed to seal a promise.
Times do change.
Not too many decades ago, theextending of the right hand
proved that a man came in peacethat he concealed no weapon.
So the extending and joining ofright hands became a friendly
(02:14):
gesture.
Every man who enters Freemasonryplucked off his shoe.
In doing so, you made a solemnpledge.
The other preparations forinitiation into the mysteries of
Freemasonry, added to thatpledge.
You know what this pledge was?
(02:34):
You promised to keep all theobligations you assumed as you
advanced in the craft.
We can ask ourselves anotherquestion.
What would be the legendarybeginning of Freemasonry if Boaz
had not plucked off his shoe?
Would there even be anorganization called Freemasonry
(02:55):
if he had not plucked off hisshoe?
He would not have married Ruth.
She would not have had a sonthat they named Jesse.
If he hadn't been born, therewould've been no King David, the
father of Solomon, Brad Phelps.
Have you plucked off that shoelately?
(03:16):
You know, without overthinkingthis too much, my immediate
reaction is, does it matter whatI answer to that?
Or is it more important thatsomebody else say I had.
That's why I love ourconversations and happy to have
you back in studio today.
Brad Phelps Grand LodgeEducation Officer for Minnesota
Freemasons.
(03:37):
Great to see you again.
Oh, it's very good to see youtoo, Reid.
Good to be here.
So this book by Alan Roberts hasbeen around a long time.
It's called the Mystic Tie, andit's one that is fun to
occasionally just open upPlucking off of one shoe when we
really think about it, is veryimpactful, but also something
maybe we just sort of forgetabout in the significance of
(04:01):
preparing a candidate,especially for the first time as
they're first starting thedegree process.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I.
They're, they're engaging onsomething new many times.
I don't know totally whatthey're engaging in.
We don't expect them to look ata lot of information about
Freemasonry'cause we don't wantthem to spoil the experience.
(04:21):
Uh, it's hopeful.
I think that they have some ideathough, at what they're about to
embark in.
Not necessarily for what they'regonna witness, but the type of
values.
The type of heart that they'regonna encounter, uh, in their
interactions, um, future, futureendeavors in the craft.
(04:43):
When you look back on being inthat same position, you're about
to begin the process of goingthrough the degrees.
I don't know about you, but Ihad a misperception of what that
would be like.
I thought it was going to bedifferent than the reality of.
Sharing core values and timelessphilosophies and ways in which I
(05:08):
personally, everyone who's amember can and should be
embracing those things in ourlives.
I had a very romantic view whenI came into the lodge.
Uh, I remember the whole timebeing maybe a little bit
nervous.
There's a lot of legend and lorea about us.
(05:30):
But I knew some people that wereexamples and people that I
looked up to, and the wholetime, throughout the whole
experience of coming intoMasonry, I just remembered that
all of the people around me, uh,believed in the same things and
were just like the people thatinspired me to come in in the
(05:50):
first place.
even now, almost 20 years later,it still hits me that it's so
important to be the example.
When you think of those who haveinspired you over the years, or
some of those that were theexample, the first guys that
(06:11):
come to mind are not usually theloudest or the most showy.
I don't know how to describethat.
No, you're, you're right.
And it's, it's been actually atopic, a conversation needs
outside of Masonry as well, um,in leadership circles that,
There's this misconception thatpeople should be the first to
(06:31):
speak because that shows theircompetence.
And somewhere along the line, Iread some quote that said
something, uh, along the linesof, if you speak up, trying to
prove that you are not ignorantand you don't think about the
(06:52):
words you're, you're using.
Then you leave everyone aroundyou, no doubt of what you are.
And you know, it's, it's verystriking.
And so you see these people thatprobably don't have as much
self-esteem, maybe they haveintelligence trying to be the
first ones out of the gate, to,to share their opinions.
(07:16):
And it's pretty much leadership1 0 1, although a very hard
thing to practice.
To be someone who listens.
And I've read, read a lot ofdifferent books that say that is
such a wonderful thing as aleader and sort of a cheat
because now you get the benefitof everybody else's
(07:38):
perspectives.
Uh, I think there's a lot tothat.
And not only that, but if youopen yourself to it.
There's absolutely so much wecan learn from the various
perspectives that are around us.
It makes us truly better andit's one of the, the Secrets of
Masonry.
(07:58):
It's a recurring theme in theconversations we have here about
the importance of authenticity.
In my travels, seeing lodges ona regular basis, the most
successful in big air quotes,aren't necessarily the biggest,
or maybe writing the largestchecks to the people in need in
(08:21):
the community.
They're, they're doing that, butthe most successful lodges.
Have a thread of authenticity,friendship, love for one
another, and true concern foreach other in life's challenges
and in life's victories.
(08:43):
They truly have coalesced aroundthese things.
They're more than justbuzzwords.
The, the things that we say, thewords that we use, the value
teachings, words likebrotherhood are not just a
platitude said in the lodgesetting, but they're, they
really have it in the heart.
And that is so striking to me isall these years we've just
(09:04):
somehow been, generallyspeaking, chasing after numbers
or concerned about.
a line item on a spreadsheet.
Maybe there's opportunity for usto slow down and cultivate over
the long haul, what it means tobe friends and brothers and
(09:27):
those who truly care about andlove each other.
Oh, absolutely.
A hundred percent.
Does, does that sound trite?
Is that just a, a pipe dream?
No.
No.
And, and I think both you and Iknow people like that.
so I came in and I thoughteveryone would be that way, not
recognizing as somebody that wasbeginning my journey, that we're
(09:48):
all in different places.
We have, we have symbols thattalk about our evolution.
And some people are on thebeginning of their journey, some
people are further along.
And the thing that reallystrikes me is there's this sense
of calmness for those peoplethat have really discovered
(10:09):
what's important.
And you highlighted some of themin, in what you were describing.
Let me ask you this.
If I were to ask you withoutthinking too much.
Who to you is somebody inMasonry that you either have or
do now look up to?
And why?
(10:30):
it's an interesting thing, and Ihope you don't edit this out.
A friend of mine and I weretalking one day and we were
reflecting on these greatbrothers that were here in life,
and we just never took the timeeither because of where we
entered into the craft or wherethese brothers were to get to
know them, and we find out allthese wonderful things about'em.
(10:52):
And adding on to that maybe alittle bit, have you ever
noticed how much goes unsaidwhen we're here, but at our
funerals?
All that stuff comes up.
Yes.
What a shame.
So I go back to my question andyou know, nobody should feel bad
because of who you picked.
There's no favoritism.
(11:13):
I'm just saying go with yourgut.
Who's the first person thatcomes to mind?
I'm gonna go with someone whomI've known from a distance for a
number of years, but have onlyrecently really been going a few
layers deeper in getting to knowthe person.
And it's Zev ick.
Hmm?
Yes.
Zeb I was first introduced to inthe York, right.
(11:36):
He's an exceptional, ritualistfriendly guy.
His ability to memorize and andto execute is very enviable, to
say the least.
But Zeb is working on a numberof different things within his
own lodge and is being such aninspiring leader.
(11:57):
In seeing the value ofcollaborating with community
bringing all of these differentpieces together, I really admire
that someone like him doesn't doit in a way of listen to me, I'm
the expert, and do as I say, zb,is good at selling the outcome.
If we do this, if we collaboratewith this group, we're all going
(12:20):
to benefit from it.
It's that servant leader with noreal agenda other than a love
for the craft, A sincereenjoyment of the friends and
brothers around him.
That building of authenticrelationships.
And to your earlier point, howmany of our friends and, and
(12:44):
whether it's within the lodgesetting or our neighborhood or
our jobs, we know somebody froma distance.
We know a little bit about them.
We know their family.
We made their hobbies, theirkids names, the activities that
they're in.
What would it take for us toslow down a notch or two?
Because like you said, we go toa funeral and learn all of these
(13:06):
things and think, God, how did Inot know this?
Part of what I've enjoyed aboutthis podcast, this is maybe the
most fun one hour a week wespend here, and the feedback of
interviewing brothers like.
John L.
Cook and Gerald Rhodes, and youand so many others that have
come back.
The emails, the texts, wow, Ihad no idea that his life
(13:31):
experience was X, Y, and Z.
A hundred percent.
Have you?
Hmm.
Couple things.
It's really interesting that youpicked Z.
I don't know if you know, he'sone of my dearest friends.
Uh, we were talking about I didnot know that.
Yeah.
I knew you were friends, but notOh, yeah.
No kidding.
We, we did ritual together inthe Scottish rite together in
(13:53):
some pretty key degrees.
Uh, he was an inspiration for meto study tremendously.
I think he knows how much Ithink of him, but Amanda knows,
and, and this isn't meant to bedark, but if something happens
to me, He's the guy, I want todo my service.
My wife knows that.
And you don't just pick anybodyfor that.
(14:15):
Right.
If you, if you call that out,it's important.
By the way, Sean Kerrick willthank me for bringing this up,
let your family know what youwant.
'cause we're all gonna face thatat some point.
And, uh, anyway, I agree witheverything you said about him.
He is a true inspiration.
I think a lot of it is becauseit's more.
(14:35):
It's more than what he says.
It's what he does.
And that brings up a tremendousamount of, of credibility.
And there's been times whereI've really needed him and he's,
he's been showed compassion bothby being there, uh, to hear what
I had to say, but there, therewas no, I'm gonna tell Brad what
(14:56):
he wants to hear.
It was, I'm gonna be honest,which is a sign of a really true
friend.
I.
going on to some of the otherthings you said.
There's a, there's a talk from,we've talked about Simon Sinek
before, so I know you, you watchhim too.
There's this video where hetalks about finding your why.
Have you ever, have you everseen that?
(15:17):
Yes.
you really dig into Why are youmy friend?
And there it's, there's surfacelevel stuff that you'll probably
hear in return.
You keep going at this.
And then finally.
Something will be said thatsends shivers up your spine.
Yeah.
And it's because that's whatresonates with you.
And, uh, I think we focus toomuch on some of the other things
(15:42):
that aren't necessarily our why.
And I get it.
You know, I grew up when I hadkids, that's my story.
I always thought I was, but I, Iguess if you look at it, I was
probably in my thirties when I,when I truly, I.
Grew up and for me the catalystwas having to be responsible for
somebody else.
(16:04):
And, uh, you know, I meant whatI said with regard to does it
matter if I say I took off myshoe or is it more important to
hear how the act of thataffected somebody?
And I think, I think about mykids and I sure hope that, uh,
they would say after I'm gone,or even, I guess while I'm here,
(16:26):
that.
The actions I took and thethings that I did inspired them,
made them proud of me and helpedthem in their life.
And those people that realizeit, they realize it's, it's not
keeping up with the Joneses.
It's not about money.
It's not about, do I have thebiggest, the best house?
(16:48):
It's not about what car am Idriving, you know, I'm driving a
2000.
GXJ.
that didn't cost me a ton ofmoney.
And I would say it's probablyone of my favorite cars.
I've, I've had all kinds ofdifferent cars.
Why?
I like the story of it, of whereit came from, whose hands it
went through.
Went through three brothers, bythe way.
(17:09):
Did it really?
It did.
And I've modified a customizeit.
It tells some of my story.
and, and yet it's obviously notthe most important thing to me.
it's been a real journey tofigure out what the important
things are and for me, educationand being able to work with
(17:30):
people and see that, that lookof excitement when they realize
something new.
Or you and I were pa playing alittle bit with a chatbot
earlier today and that look ofshock, but it, it, it got us
thinking.
I love the process of thinkingand, and people being inspired
to do the same.
(17:51):
We spend a lot of time reallycelebrating, I love when we
teach people how to think.
And, you know, speaking of ai,it's, isn't it even more
important that we.
Know how to think, uh, the, thewhole, the whole reason for us,
(18:13):
I, I won't answer it, but if wecan't take physical things with
us Yes.
And we're here in a blink,what's the point for us to be
here?
And I think you get the answersif you really study the degrees.
Really reflect on the lessonsthat are there.
It's a journey.
There are still things that,that 20 years later I hear and
(18:35):
it, it hits me different after.
Mm-hmm.
After some of the experiencesand where I'm in, in life at 50
as opposed to, you know,thirties and, uh, certainly if I
would've been a mason in mytwenties or late teens, it would
hit different than then too, forsure.
(18:55):
There's a certain calmness.
Have you seen that the, thepeople that have kind of, I'll
say, figured it out and reallyfocus on what's important to
them.
They have this sense of peace,and I'm not the only one that's
seen it.
I've, I've heard it come fromnon masons that have interacted
with Masons.
(19:16):
What is it about these guys thatthey have so much peace?
I find that fascinating.
How would you answer that ifsomeone made that observation
and said, you see that guy overthere, maybe he doesn't even
know he is a mason, but saidthere's something different
about him.
(19:37):
How do you articulate that ifyou had to?
In the moment, there's a balanceto be had between what drives us
spiritually and what we need inthe physical world functionally.
I think the people that are atpeace have found that balance
and maybe even realize that thephysical existence we have here,
(20:00):
including all the challengesthat we face, are not the end
game.
They're not the the, the wholething.
It would be like me stewing overa test.
So if I lose my job, it's notconvenient.
But I, I heard this quote, uh,it actually came from a pastor
(20:21):
and it blew my mind, and it cameat just the right time.
Are we living our life in thehonor of the kingdom or are we
living our life to makeourselves comfortable?
And it, it, it just then shiversup my, my spine and I think.
Usually I, I don't want tostereotype, but usually the guys
(20:45):
that have that comfort, they'vebeen here for a while, they've,
they've lived life and they'veseen a lot of things, and I
think they're the ones that havehad that aha moment and just are
like.
Is it more important that Ispend the time with my family
and get to enjoy them and, andmake an impact and am with my
(21:08):
friends and so forth?
Or is it more important thatI'm, I'm worried about my job
because as I've heard this too,will pass.
And, uh, I, a lot of us will saywe have faith, but, but do we?
I mean is, is that justsomething we say because it's
(21:32):
expected to say, or do we trulyembrace that there's something
bigger and beyond?
Because it seems to me anywaythat it's kinda like you ever
looked back and something seemedlike an emergency and it was all
consuming, and then five yearslater you go, why did I spend so
many cycles worrying about that?
(21:54):
Yes, that wasn't so big.
I think a lot of us see thattoo, and our challenges get
bigger and bigger the more, themore we advance.
And I, I guess long story short,it's, it's a bigger perspective
and understanding of the truenature of things.
As I travel in this role andcontinually visit lodges and
(22:16):
have conversations.
Part of why the topic keepscoming up on this podcast about
authenticity and true friendshipand meaningful contact and
connections is that brothers arenot leaving the craft because of
say, the, the ritual wasn'tperfect or because of some other
(22:38):
specific, it's quite oftenbecause the, that promise we
make of authentic brotherhoodand friendship is missing.
Or it's hollow, or at times itfeels hypocritical.
We go through the motions ofinitiation and of sharing that
(23:00):
these are our values.
This is what we stand for.
We're not perfect.
We've all succumbeded to thetemptation of.
Saying something or worse,posting something that was
divisive, that was not helpful,that was static instead of
(23:22):
signal.
But there are culture issueswithin the lodge sometimes where
it feels like we're not tryingvery Do we try?
How much value do we place onsome of these things?
I, I know of a, a friend ofmine's attending a church and he
(23:43):
and his wife are leaving thischurch because it has become
toxic.
It has become a place whereeveryone says all the words they
keep up the appearances.
But the reality of theexperience has been incredibly
disappointing.
I.
They're going someplace else.
(24:03):
Does that, is that a parallelsometimes for a lodge in which
the toxicity, the negativity, orthe latent malcontents have
taken over the yeah.
There, I think there's a lot ofimportant things to consider
what you just said.
So the very first one is.
(24:23):
You're right.
There's a lot of polarizinglanguage on social media, and
it's tempting to go out and say,you can't do that.
You shouldn't do that.
We can't control what peoplesay.
You know what?
We can't control how we respondto it.
(24:44):
And what I've learned is.
I've taken some of these, theseguys aside, that, that have said
things that I thought were harshand instead of judging them and
saying, how dare you, or evengetting upset, I've asked, tell
me a little more about that.
I'd like to understand it evenif it was something I completely
(25:07):
disagreed with.
And there's, there's a, a, adear brother, another dear
brother that I have that, uh.
I've gotten to know, and what wefound in some of these hard
conversations is that we wantthe same things.
We just don't have the same viewon how to approach it.
And as we talk through it, wefind out that there's probably
(25:30):
validity won't even be thatwishy-washy, there is validity
in, in what each of us aresaying.
So I think there's an importantlesson to be had there about
patients.
And I think it's a shame.
Especially as Freemasons, if wecoach our guys not to talk about
hard things.
(25:50):
Isn't that a little bit akin toteaching people what to think as
opposed to how to think?
And we should be teaching thingsand we are teaching things like
civility to help people getthrough that.
And if there was ever a timewhere this was needed, it's now.
People hide behind anonymousidentities and and boards and
(26:11):
social or just aren't heldaccountable or don't think about
it.
And I think it's super importantthat we ask the right questions
as opposed to making assertionsreally try to understand where
somebody might be coming fromand give them the benefit of the
doubt.
Those are all really hardthings, but again, those calm
guys that I know, they're thatway.
(26:35):
Tell me more why, why you saidthat.
I'd like to understand itbecause they realize we're all
brothers and sisters truly, andeven some of the people just to
prepare us that say they aresuper accepting and tolerant.
that's not always true.
Because their view of toleranceisn't all that tolerant.
(26:56):
So tolerant.
As long as you think exactlylike, or we, we have shared
everything.
Possibly.
I, and you know, I get kindawhere they're coming from.
Uh, I try to be accepting ofeverybody.
There's, there's a quote fromVoltaire about this.
I won't go into it, but I try tobe accepting and understanding
that, you know.
(27:16):
I can't really understandanybody but me.
So the only way I can understandit better is if we have
conversations and, and even thenit's somewhat limited, but at
least I'm trying.
Right?
Right.
so hopefully we are not passingjudgment.
We're really engaging in aconversation not to hear what we
want to hear, but to, to get abetter understanding We're not
(27:37):
doing ourselves any favors, uh,culturally to.
Encourage people not to haveconversations.
And we're also not doingourselves any favors by
reminding everybody, especiallyin Freemasonry.
We, you know, We are brothersand sisters spiritually.
there are things in thisphysical world that, that make
(27:59):
us different.
It can be a lot of things,including our experiences, and
that's probably by design.
I I, I can imagine that what'sput in front of us is there to
help us grow.
For some people that's differentthan other things, and if we
embrace the fact that we'respiritual brothers and sisters.
(28:19):
We look at it that way andreally try to understand and try
to hold ourselves to thestandards of what we're being
taught in our lessons, and weembrace it, live it, not just
show up to a meeting and gothrough the motions, but really
live it.
We can inspire people to bebetter.
(28:41):
This is a conversation oftenmisunderstood.
This isn't some sort of lectureon you shouldn't have strong
opinions or that you should feelthis way or that way.
It's about pausing beforeposting something inflammatory.
Now, I'm not telling someoneyou, you can't do that.
(29:04):
My question always is, why wouldyou want to.
How much satisfaction did youreally get knowing that
ultimately you are alienatingprobably 50% of your friends,
your family, your everyone inthe social media world and for
what?
Yeah, there's, there'sdefinitely truth in that.
I.
(29:24):
There used to be a practice I, Idon't think a lot of people are
doing anymore, sadly, whereyou'd stop and count to 10 or,
you know, I've, I've heardpeople suggest if you're upset
about something, write a noteand then rip it up and throw it
away because, you know, you feellike you said it, but then do
you really need to say it?
Uh, so you feel like you get itoff your chest.
There's any number of ways to doit, but again, I'm gonna
(29:46):
encourage everyone that'slistening that, would consider
it.
Try to give people the benefitof the doubt, uh, and, and
remember the bigger perspective.
A friend of mine, just wentthrough having a bunch of mon
money stolen.
He forgot his wallet somewhere,and it, and it, it wasn't
returned and there was someother stuff.
(30:08):
obviously sad, it's not greatand you want to get angry, but.
There's another perspective too,that that person may have needed
it more than he too.
And so it's kind of humbling tothink about that.
it's hard.
It is.
It's super hard.
I mean, but we either embracethe lessons that are thrown at
(30:30):
us and we grow or we don't.
And I guess that gets back tosome of that.
What's, what's really important,and if it were easy, we would
all be there, right?
True.
We're not.
We're all works in progress.
We all have an opportunity tostop and ask each other, why do
(30:51):
you feel that way?
Or what's going on in your life?
To glean a little moreperspective.
We're so fast just in society tosay, well, he feels that way to
hell with him.
We can't be friends.
And then the rift begins withoutgaining a little more context.
(31:15):
If we want our lodges to growand retain our members, it is on
all of us to devote ourselvesto.
Making a solid effort to livingup to our self-imposed
guidelines, standards, and corevalues.
(31:38):
This is very tricky.
We're all, we're wired to bepassionate, to have strong
feelings, but if silence andcircumspection tolerance.
the whole human species beingone family man.
If that's just a platitude,we've got work to do.
(32:01):
Yeah.
One of my mentors professionallyonce told me,'cause I was really
struggling with somethingsimilar you're describing.
Uh, communication's a two-waystreet.
it's not only just about being agood communicator to get an idea
across, but people have to bewilling to receive it.
And sometimes, especially in thecorporate world, big comp, big
(32:25):
companies, and I've been atboth, I've been at big
companies, I've been at smallercompanies.
The bigger companies are harderto get the ship to turn.
So if you grow in leadership,you have to be comfortable with
planting a seed and beingpatient for the right time for
it to sprout.
And sometimes that takes yearsand the same can hold true in
(32:45):
the lodge.
And I guess the only real wordsof wisdom I have with regard to
this is as we advance in masonryand.
If we've been through that, tryto remember what it felt like to
be dismissed or not to be heard,so that if somebody that's
bringing up an idea or asuggestion, even if you don't
(33:07):
agree with it, uh, hear it outand listen to it and have a
conversation about it.
And try not to let our, our ownbiases, uh, make the decisions
and if it is not the right timefor that particular idea, have
that conversation too.
And, uh, just, I.
Try to find the best way, uh, touse the best of all the, all
(33:31):
ideas to win.
But I, the thing is we get, I dothink we get wrapped up on
really an important things, someof my favorite activities, share
some of those activities.
Like, like what?
How do we fix the buildingsroof?
What happens if we lose thebuilding?
(33:52):
Why didn't we raise our dueshigher years?
That's three years.
Ago's a good one.
That's, that's a good one.
our numbers falling is a, isanother good one.
Well, I remember back in thegood old days when our numbers
in 1958 were, yeah, 700 membersof our lodge and how about this
or that just gives me thecatalyst.
Stop focusing on the past andfocus on the future.
(34:17):
Where you want to go.
This conversation just came fullcircle.
'cause that is what our friendand Brother Zev is good at.
Yeah.
How are we going to take ourcurrent circumstances and work
through it to ensure lookingforward?
Yeah, it's an interesting, thisis another place where I think
(34:38):
there's balance, right?
If we don't raise new guys, thenwe're not bringing new people in
the craft to.
To be an investment in thefuture.
and it's robbing ourselves likesome of the most rewarding
interactions I've had, are withsome of the younger guys at
Rochester Lodge, seeing howexcited they're, they are about
(35:01):
education, about becoming betterat doing their floor work and
ritual.
The things that make me feelgood are, are less about like
in, in my cases, the people thatI mentor, oh, I'm successful
because Brad told me to do itthis way.
What's truly rewarding ishearing from them truly
(35:25):
heartfelt, deep things about howI acted or things that I've done
that inspired them and, andwanted them to.
Improve, and I've tried reallyhard not to give instruction
lists out to people.
If they ask me, like, especiallyfor those that are just
(35:46):
beginning, I'll give them someguidance, but I don't know about
you.
But every once in a while youhear something and you're
humbled by it because you'relike, I would've never thought
that that was an importantthing.
And in my case, somebody came upto me fairly recent and
unprompted said.
(36:07):
You have this way of makingorder out of chaos, and I don't
know what it was about that, butI'll never, ever forget that.
How'd you feel in that moment?
Well, it was like Covey's thing,or not Covey, a cynics thing
where shivers went up my spine.
There was something about thatthat resonated.
(36:27):
I couldn't really articulate foryou what it is.
Maybe it's.
It's inferred in that statementthat I somehow made their life
less chaotic, that I helped themSo that's an interesting one.
Inspiring.
Yeah, I am driven by that and.
(36:49):
There are some that would saythat's a key factor in, in
leading people.
It is truly an honor to havepeople follow because they want
to and not because they have to.
You know, we, we teach lessonsabout that too in masonry,
right?
There's a statement about thatwhen the Worshipful Masters
installed during ourinstallation ceremonies, right,
(37:10):
there's recognition that he'sjust like the rest of us, but we
give him the honor of raisinghim up for a temporary time and
trusting him.
We wouldn't trust somebody forjust any reason in a healthy
situation.
And I'm not gonna say thatdoesn't happen right now.
It's usually a numbers game whenthat does happen.
(37:31):
But the truly impactful people,I.
Their peers trust them becauseof who they are, not what they
say they are, but who they are.
And we all know those people.
we're not driven by somebody'sperception and work really hard
to be painted as somebody great.
(37:55):
But instead we're, we're honoredand trusted because we follow
through the attributes that we,we hold onto.
It's not about money.
It's not about station and life.
It's about how we impact people.
And if we care about what peoplethink, it's not because what car
I drive, what house I have,where I work, what position I
(38:17):
have, But instead I.
Because of these principles thatwe hold true principles that
resonate with the rest ofhumanity and without them even
knowing they're seeking out.
And I think that's when you havethose aspects, that's when
people will follow you becausethey want to and not because
(38:39):
they have to.
if each of us.
Wants to be a positive influencein life.
And even more specifically inlodge, people are not going to
just simply trust us because ofwhat we say.
(39:02):
They are going to follow andtrust how we behave, how we
conduct ourselves, and when weshow up, you know, we.
Everybody listening to thisknows what a cable toe is.
What I would ask them though isyour length of the cable toe
based on what you can do orwhat's convenient to you?
(39:27):
I think sometimes we mix thatup.
There are brothers who haveshowed up in my life and they
are very close to me that Iasked them for help.
Some of them at the time, Ididn't even know when they
showed up.
That was super, supermeaningful.
We're gonna embarrass that by,keep bringing him up.
But he shows up constantly when,when he's needed for ritual and
(39:51):
he doesn't show up and just readthe words, he knows him.
He is put the work in, peopleshowing up when they're asked,
even when it's not convenient.
and I'm not telling people tolike.
Damage their family life oranything like that.
But I am saying if you're askedto do something that's difficult
(40:11):
and it's within your means andyou're not going to hurt your
family or hurt your career, doit.
Sometimes even, it may seem likework, but it's, it's like my
motorcycle trips.
I've written multiple timesthat.
You're not protected from theelements.
And in the moment if you'regetting hit by hail or rain, it
sucks.
(40:32):
Okay?
It stinks for sure.
Yes.
But afterwards, the braggingrights of persevering and
pushing through it and havingthat memory, it feels awesome.
Maybe it's a little bit like aworkout at the moment.
It might really be tough, butyou know that feeling you get
when you're done it, uh.
(40:53):
I think that's a part of thedesigns between you and I Sense
of accomplishment.
Yes, exactly.
Brad Phelps, we often fail tothank you sufficiently for the
time and dedication you put intonot only your lodge, but serving
as a Grand Lodge educationofficer in Minnesota.
(41:13):
As we wind down today, we'vetalked some very compelling and
thought provoking aspects oflodge life, life outside of the
lodge.
Last word to you, sir.
We were talking about getting toknow some of the, the people
that are around us and beingpresent.
(41:34):
One of my very best friends, Imiss him dearly.
He moved back to Japan, he knewI liked motorcycles and he was
going after, uh, a particularHarley Davidson he had wanted
for a long time and asked theguys in the lodge.
Would you like to go with me toMilwaukee to pick this up?
And I took a chance.
I didn't know him that well, butI said, yeah, I'll go with you.
(41:56):
And from that came a dearfriendship.
Differences in all differencesin view.
We compliment each other.
We traveled all over the UnitedStates together on motorcycles.
He has a special place in myheart.
We may not see each other asmuch as as I would like anymore,
(42:16):
but if.
If you were to show up on mydoorstep tomorrow, five years,
10 years from now, wouldn'tmatter.
We'd pick up where we left off.
These are the types offriendships and bonds we build
in Masonry.
This is what Masonry's about.
I just encourage people, beopen-minded, experience life for
what it's really like, what it'sreally for, and appreciate our
(42:39):
spiritual brothers and sistersfor what they are and what they
give us.
And when I say I love the craftand I love the people in it, I
truly mean it.
That's what it's all about.
Author Alan E.
Roberts wrote in that book thatwe referenced earlier, the
Mystic Tie Practice.
Without that, which ye havelearned within, that's words
(43:04):
that are found over the door ofseveral lodges all over the
world.
He said, quote, this phrasemakes a lasting impression on
the minds of those who reallycare.
It reminds us that there is moreto be found in Freemasonry than
just its ritual.
(43:24):
I.
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