August 1, 2025 • 39 mins
Our pal Reed Houge poses the question: how do you put yourself out there?
“Every relationship, whether business or personal, starts with one thing: trust.”
Born in Jamestown, ND, Reed served in the U.S. Army as an Avionics Technician and Combat Engineer. He later relocated to Minnesota where he joined Nelson Lodge No. 135 in Buffalo (2013).
Professionally, he was a Medical Applications Engineer for Medtronic, Boston Scientific, and several start-up medical companies in Minnesota, Colorado, and Arizona.
Reed currently serves the Grand Lodge of Arizona as Senior Grand Deacon and is a member of Flagstaff Lodge No. 7.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to Minnesota, myfriend.
(00:01):
Good to see you.
Good to see you, Reed.
Good to be back.
Is this where we say it's theread and Read show?
I dunno if I got that far.
But it is Reed and Reed.
Reed.
Hoge, it's so good to have youback in Minnesota on the
summertime visits you were bornin Jamestown, North Dakota.
My home state of North Dakota,you joined Nelson Lodge number 1
35 in Buffalo, A Life membersince 2013.
(00:25):
Relocated to Arizona andaffiliated with Flagstaff Lodge.
Number seven in 2015.
You currently serve the GrandLodge of Arizona as a senior
grand deacon.
How is life in general?
Uh, I tell you, it's good to beup here in the summertime that
that helps.
Uh, but every, everything isgoing pretty well.
Road trips, typically you andyour wife love to, right?
(00:47):
Is that that's your thing?
Uh, yeah.
If, if I can drive there, I'mgonna drive.
And if I can't drive there, Iusually change the location to
where someplace I can drive.
So doesn't that get.
Tedious to you.
It is, does not, I get thatquestion all the time.
It's like, what do you do?
And I said, there's all thisstuff to look at.
I mean, there's the world, the,the whole landscape changes.
(01:07):
And I grew up on a farm, and,uh, as you're driving through,
you're going, gosh, why?
Why are they using that type of,uh, machinery?
And they're different machineryfrom what we use up in North
Dakota.
And anyway, I I enjoy that.
You married your lovely wife,Marli in 1995, retired in 2022
to dedicate more time to masonryand traveling with your wife.
(01:28):
How is Marli?
She's doing well.
She's visiting her family and Ikinda lose touch of her when she
re reunites with her family.
She disappears and does stuff.
Really?
Oh my goodness.
Off the grid.
She goes off the grid.
We have a calendar together andonce she gets with her family
it, it blows up.
She just disappears.
Well, you certainly can't saythe visit wasn't productive
(01:51):
then.
Oh, it's very productive.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, you served in the US Armyas an avionics technician and
combat engineer among other MOSspecialties.
Your professional career was asa medical applications engineer
For many innovators in themedical profession.
You've worked for companies likeMedtronic, Boston Scientific,
(02:11):
several startup medicalcompanies in Minnesota,
Colorado, and Arizona.
I'd love to hear some aboutthat, but more importantly,
how's retirement been so far?
It's good.
It takes a little getting usedto, uh, I, I liked going into
work and, but, uh, I, I miss theroutine of innovating, uh,
coming up with new ideas and howto make a product better for
(02:35):
the, for the end user.
But, uh, I'm getting into it,been two years into it and I'm
getting there.
So you've maintained yourmembership in Minnesota with
Nelson Lodge Zero Shrine, theMinneapolis Scottish Rite.
I know you're also active in thePhoenix York, right.
Bodies.
Other than the obvious, well,the winter is better.
How's life in Arizona been sofar?
(02:56):
It's been good.
Uh, the, the, when I first moveddown to Arizona.
I was talking to one of thepeople, one of the, I think it
was the secretary of of thelodge I was at, and I said, what
is the difference betweenA-F-N-A-M and FNAM?
So I actually had to get thatinformation from the, the, uh,
what was it?
Uh.
(03:17):
Freemasons for dumb reason, butmy sec, the secretary had said,
Reid, the only differencebetween AF n am and FNAM is one
letter A.
Well, that's completely wrong.
Uh, there's several times I hadused utilized a different ritual
and such, but, uh, but Idefinitely like, uh, seeing the
difference between a F am and FNam and see what Minnesota's
doing and what Arizona's doing.
(03:39):
And speaking of your currentrole as the senior Grand Deacon
for the Grand Lodge of Arizona.
How's that going so far?
I think this podcast is fun totalk to brothers from different
jurisdictions to hear what'sgoing on elsewhere, as we all
somewhat have a tendency to geta little inward focus sometimes
from state to state.
I guess the biggest thing is,uh, is, is.
(04:03):
Being the senior grand deacon,it really isn't any different
than anything else.
But I am exposed to more of theworkings of the Grand Lodge, and
that's very interesting.
And then of course, why I'm, uh,was one of the things I wanted
to take care of while I was uphere.
Was to talk to how does GrandLodge up in Minnesota run?
And you guys up in Minnesota doa wonderful, wonderful job and
(04:25):
some of the things we wannaadopt.
And I think that's, we do thison a lodge level, but uh, we
need to be doing more.
And on a grand lodge level iswhat's working well, uh, and
what's not working, and let's gothrough all of them and as we
find out what works well to goahead and, uh, try to adopt that
into our jurisdiction.
And that's easier said thandone, but that, that's done by
doing what we're doing today.
(04:46):
Just talking.
I really do appreciate that partof the 21st century aspect of
Freemasonry that so many statesand jurisdictions are sharing
ideas with one another.
Not necessarily the solution orthe magic playbook.
However, there's a lot ofcautionary tales that we can
share with one another that wemay have tried 20 years ago, 10
(05:08):
years ago for certain aspects ofmembership retention or
community engagement, gone arethe days of, well, we're just
doing our own thing andnevermind.
Over here there's a, there's areal spirit of collaboration
across the country.
100%.
The, uh, lemme back up.
I guess I should say I've, oneof the things I like doing as a
Grand Lodge officer is visitingother grand lodges, uh, not
(05:31):
just, uh, Minnesota, but NorthDakota.
Uh.
We went to Hawaii.
Uh, but just going to thedifferent jurisdictions to see
what they're doing, like yousaid, is finding out what went,
what worked well, okay, thoseare easy ones we can implement.
What didn't go well?
Well this didn't work.
Oh, tell me more about that.
And they'll go into detailabout, well, this didn't work
(05:51):
'cause of X, Y, Z.
Maybe it was a timeframe issue.
Uh, maybe it was a, a culturalissue, I don't know.
But what can we take from thatand hone it for our use?
And that's.
Again, harder to do than uhsaid, but it's something I'd
like to work on.
One of the things that you and Italked about offline is how do
(06:12):
we refine the experience, themember experience, and that can
be both for a new member orsomeone who's a little more
seasoned, who's been around fora while, we have an influx of
incoming members all seeking.
To reconnect again, that humanto human connection, that mentor
(06:32):
mentee opportunity.
What do you see as some of theareas of opportunities that we
can refine that experienceacross the board for any state?
I think we talked a little bitabout, uh, our current members,
uh, that are maybe not showingup to lodge.
Why aren't they showing up tolodge?
Uh, is it, is it their personalissues, personal lodges?
(06:55):
I guess their personal, uh, um.
Situations.
Well, that's, that, that stuffthat's out, out of our control.
But maybe they just, they aren'ta fit for that lodge or whatever
it is.
But let's find out they, theyall have worth and how can we
utilize that And, and, uh, thoseshould, that should be our first
focus is getting to, uh, findout what that is.
(07:16):
Can we correct the problem?
But how can we get them back inlodge because they, they were
made a mason for a reason.
Let's, uh, make sure they'repart of the team.
Then for the, the new guys, youknow, we've got an influx, a lot
of new people out there, well,they're, they have completely
different views, some rights,some wrong, but, uh, uh, they
all are, can add to it to add toour experience, but it makes a,
(07:39):
it's useful to have, I guesswhat I'm saying, in Minnesota,
85% or more of new prospectsthat are coming through be a
freemason.org, 85% plus.
Have a wish or an ask of givingback to the community, how can I
give back to the greater good?
(08:00):
I found that to be very telling,doing this role day to day and
in my lodge visits when I visita lodge that doesn't have much,
sometimes doesn't have anythingas far as community engagement,
that's a a really big morningsign to me.
No, I, I agree.
The, uh, I, I've not heard that,that, that number, 85%.
It's huge.
(08:21):
That's quite uplifting, I'lltell you that much.
Uh, but, uh, now we just have togive them a mechanism to, uh,
work, work as a team to givesomething back.
When we look back with hindsightbeing 2020, does it ever feel
like we have been trying to basea large culture solely around
(08:43):
the administrative requirementsof what we do?
Yes.
And uh, Yeah, we try to putevery lodge into a, a, uh, a box
and say, this is how a lodgeshould run.
But really every lodge isindividual and it's, it's the
people in it.
I mean, lodge where I meet, uh,at, uh, Veia Lodge, uh, also
(09:05):
has, uh, they rent from.
Paradise Valley Silver Patrol,they're completely different
lodges and, and, and we, wedon't think that should be the
exact same.
We all have the same ritual.
We all have the same rules, butthey're completely different
cultures.
And, uh, yes, we, we, we need toread what's good with the
culture and, and, uh, learn fromit.
(09:29):
When I bring that topic up fordiscussion, it often gets
misunderstood or misinterpreted.
Someone will say, yeah, let'snot do the administrative.
Well that, no, we, we willalways have our ritual and we
have our customary opening andclosing.
And yes, we will always vote onand discuss and do the minutes,
(09:50):
but if that's all that we'reoffering.
If it's put together at the 11thhour, if our standards to open
and close that, that opportunityto have that mental reset from
the outside world, we areopening our lodge with a level
of pride and taking a deepbreath, turning off the device,
(10:11):
having a lodge meeting witheducation that is something
useful that I could utilizeoutside of the lodge room.
I don't know about you, butpersonally, I don't want to go
to lodge and hear a 40 minutespresentation on George
Washington.
I love George Washington, but Icould get that at home.
I can order that book on Amazonand stay home with a dog in my
(10:34):
lap with my wife next to me.
Sometimes we over complicate itand think that, well, could it
be, could it really be thatsimple to let our members know
when we're gonna meet what we'regoing to eat, the opportunity to
get together and know what'sgoing on in each other's lives
and have an element ofeducation, whether specifically
(10:55):
Masonic or I call it nonMasonic, in the sense that it
could be a topic outside of thecipher, outside of Albert Pike
or what have you.
Some sort of education thatuplifts enriches into something
that will leave me thinking, I'mglad I went to lodge tonight and
I'll be back next month too, asopposed to that 11th hour.
(11:20):
And I guess we don't have alodge education thing tonight.
I, we, we forgot about the meal.
We're just gonna have pizzaagain or nothing.
I'm a big believer in, uh, inplanning out anything.
'cause uh, things usually justdon't happen on their own.
We have to put our own humantouch into it.
But we always go like, you talkabout the 11th hour, well I'll
(11:41):
just show up and we'll talkabout what we talk about.
Right?
But then nobody's really thoughtabout it and usually get one or
two guys that are very good atspeaking.
Uh, they do most of the talking.
I'm interested in the guy in thecorner.
Is thinking about it, but nottalking about it.
And, uh, but you, you weretalking about education.
We often get wrapped up in somuch detail to, to the
(12:04):
education.
It's, we're gonna go over this,we're gonna go over that, we're
gonna go over this.
And those are always useful.
But what I do get, what I reallylike, uh, when they're.
I guess, uh, home spun.
My, uh, is when they're justtalking about whatever, uh, uh,
a friend of mine once gave aeducation on a Saturday.
I want a wet shave.
And I go, what?
(12:25):
And John goes, no, I'm justgonna have a wet shave.
And I go, why?
He goes, do you know not a wetshave?
And I go, you know, I've neverdone that.
And he went with, with straightline.
He goes, exactly, we're gonna dothat.
And I go.
That's kind of a good, it was abig hit, really.
And I've, so I would've neverguessed that.
And then that, once you realizethat, that works.
So people are interested in justfun things and just, and, and
(12:45):
people wanna know what you know,and you wanna know what I know.
And it's like our whole, uh,goal here is it trade ideas and
trade, uh, concepts, whetherthey work or not, but it's like,
oh, you know, he, I like whatReid said on that.
Let's change this a little bitand that'll work.
And like you were talking about,use, utilizing what we learned
in a lodge and taking it outsidea lodge.
(13:06):
Well, yeah, that's, that's whatwe should be doing.
But it's, uh, if we hear aboutGeorge Washington, it's like,
well, that's hard sometimes torelate some of that stuff to,
uh, to what I'm doing.
You know, George Washington's apretty cool guy.
I think we all have a tendencyto think that, well, large
education had better be reallyheavy all the time in a really
(13:28):
long editorial about whateverthe topic is, and there's a time
and place for that.
I, I love that part too, but canwe get a little balance in which
we have like the, that, that'sreally interesting or there's
some topics that would be wellreceived and interesting that
you may not ever think would beAnother thing that I saw happen
(13:48):
at a lodge that I, I reallyliked, so that he brought the
prospects in, uh, before lodge.
And while they were there, therewere six of them there.
And he, he asked each one ofthem that, uh, something that
your, tell me something thatyour parent did, uh, taught you
that you still utilized today.
And why?
Well, that's kind of cool.
(14:09):
And he told a little, a littlestory about his, how his mother
taught him this, and it's stilluseful.
I said, that is pretty neat.
But the important part was rightafter that, he could point to
anyone in lodge.
Now he doesn't know many ofthese people.
He would just point to this guyand say, now you tell me.
Well, now you're having a guysitting right next to you.
And this information that cameout of that, I'm going.
Well, this is kind of neat and,uh, this is kind of, kind of
(14:32):
interesting but anyway, theywent around the room and, uh, I
said, any way we can get thepeople engaged, that's really
what we're looking for.
And that's the, that's alwaysthe secret sauce.
There's a lodge I visited thathas a section of their stated
meeting called the beehive, andit's an open floor.
(14:53):
It's usually led off by themaster, but not necessarily.
The goal of the beehive portionis just literally knowing what's
going on in each other's lives.
The good, what are wecelebrating, what are you
struggling with?
And it's been so impactful forthat lodge and the ripple
effect.
It has days and weeks after thestate it has occurred.
(15:16):
Guys are checking in with eachother.
Hey man, thanks for sharing Yougot promoted at work.
How's the new gig so far?
Or thanks for sharing that.
You've had a bit of bout ofdepression.
You've had, you've been goingthrough a tough chapter, a tough
section of life.
How can I be there for you?
What can I do?
(15:39):
A very simple approach to makingbrotherhood, a verb and not a
noun.
What are your thoughts on that?
I really like the idea.
So they, what I like about it isthe, uh, the, again, you're,
you're just finding outsomething.
'cause we don't walk up tosomeone and say, Reid, tell me
what your darkest secrets are.
(16:00):
Exactly.
They're not gonna tell you that.
I mean, so they, if you get'emtalking, and I, I've said this
several times, there's, uh.
Every relationship, business orpersonal starts with one thing.
Uh, it starts with trust and,uh, or their lack of, and I
think people forget the, ortheir lack of.
And what I'm talking about iswhen you walk up, I don't know
(16:21):
you that well.
So it's like, well, I don'ttrust you to tell you my deepest
and darkest secrets, but you geta format where it's like, well,
wait a second, Bob over there.
He said some pretty interestingthings.
It's like, I guess it wouldn'tbe bad for me to say that, you
know, sure.
I'm sad my dog died, or whateverit is.
It's like, then you open up andthen it gets a little more, and
that's how friendships are bornand, uh, and, and they last a
(16:43):
lifetime.
But we, we, uh, we struggle withthat.
I know I do.
I think everyone does.
It's like, well, how do you putyourself out there?
That's a danger zone.
That's an area I don't want togo to because, you know, you're
at risk and everyone wants to rereduce risk in life and business
too.
But, uh.
this topic comes up time andagain on this podcast, and
(17:04):
usually someone will say, I'm alittle reluctant to ask somebody
how life is, because they maynot be ready or prepared for the
30 minute onslaught of a rereply that they get.
That is a good point.
So it's also having theself-awareness to maybe not just
open the floodgates there in themoment, but we talk a lot about
(17:26):
how large culture affectsmembership, retention,
attendance, desire to getinvolved in a committee or be an
officer possibly.
It's really, really vital intoday's world with so many
distractions and so many optionsof where to devote what little
free time.
(17:46):
Anyone has lodges that have aculture where their members know
they are loved, wanted andneeded, they know that their
brothers have their back, and,and maybe that's not a hundred
percent we, you and I both know,we don't resonate with every
single brother in lodge.
We're all brothers.
We all have our, our select fewthat we know, that's my go-to.
(18:09):
That's the guy that I can leanon when life is kicking me from
one side to the other and viceversa.
It feels at times like we'vebeen just chasing numbers,
thinking that, well, this group.
May have fallen off from thelast couple of years, but let's
just go find more guys and thenwe'll just see if they enjoy the
(18:32):
administrative portion of ourlodge.
While we don't really stop andget to know each other, it's,
it's not that complicated, butit takes time.
It takes.
A long approach, the infiniteperspective of friendship, of
really making brotherly lovefelt in our hearts when we get
together.
And we can't just flip a switchand do that.
(18:53):
Yeah.
We so, so, Reid, how do we fixthat?
No, I, I don't have a solutionfor that, but we are always
building a.
In search of buildingrelationships.
Uh, and, and we do this all thetime.
Uh, why did I join Masonry?
Um, I was asked that at my veryfirst official visit, and I went
to there and the guy goes, whydid you join?
Uh, uh, masonry?
And I stumbled a little bitgoing well, I wanted to be
(19:15):
around good people.
And uh, but that's kind of abroad, you're painting with a
big paintbrush there.
But, uh, uh, we we're lookingfor good people to surround us
and, uh.
We don't know who those peopleare.
You walk by'em in the street.
Maybe he's the best guy that Ishould that meet and, and get to
know.
But you, you're, you're not putin the certain, the same
surroundings you get to, uh,within lodge.
(19:36):
Again, I'm talking about thetrust factor.
You, you're, you learn a littlebit about the guys like, oh, he
has same, uh, interests that Ihave.
Same, um, um, I guess samethings.
You're, maybe you're plaguedwith the same concerns or
whatever they are.
Mm-hmm.
But they, uh, you learn aboutthat.
And then as you can startbuilding on that, like you said,
we're, we're building arelationship, but they are not
(19:59):
built overnight.
And we think that, oh, great,this is gonna work.
You know, all the time.
Time is our is, is, is, is thebiggest attribute in that, that
we have to give it time and thengive it attention, which is hard
to do.
Well, and we throw the wordbrotherhood out all the time.
it's brotherhood, it's brotherlylove, it's this, and, which is
(20:20):
true, but that's just adescription until it's actually
in motion.
I, I feel like there's aparallel in the workplace.
You work alongside someone.
You know their hobbies a littlebit.
You know their kids' names, youknow the activities they're
involved in, but that's it.
(20:41):
A, a guest was recently in herewho made such a great point.
Why is it that we find out somany amazing things about our
brothers at their funeral?
He's really tired of having thathappen.
It makes him kind of sad, butit's really invigorated him to
go out and in his lodge.
At dinner, at social time atOuter Lodge to really get to
(21:04):
know one another, and that's notcomplicated.
It's pretty simple.
Curiosity.
Curiosity is the cure for.
Feeling like an introvert orwhat am I gonna say to this guy
that I don't know?
Well, I think it's interestingis the, the really cool ones,
the guys you wanna meet will notcome up to you and say, did I
tell you what I've done?
Right.
I really don't wanna be aroundthose guys.
(21:25):
But the, the, it's the guys thatare sitting there.
And I went to a funeral not toolong ago and you mentioned that,
and, uh.
They were telling his bio of themilitary and he was going into
great detail.
It's like, well, he was a, um,airborne.
He was a ranger, and then, uh,he went to Vietnam and then he,
then he disappeared and we, forsix years, the military doesn't
(21:45):
have any record of this, and I'mgoing, what, what?
Guys that that's a really bigdeal.
He was doing some very specialstuff and everybody goes, oh no,
he was just gone.
I go, Hmm, no.
There's some files somewherethat we don't know about this
guy.
My point is, he was extremelycool guy that I didn't know
anything about.
I wish I would've known, knewbetter when he was alive.
So as you're serving currentlyfor the Grand Lodge of Arizona.
(22:11):
Year after year, they'reprobably going faster.
As you're making your way to theGrand East, what would you like
to see enhanced in terms of thatexperience for our members?
Well, that's a, that's, that'skind of tricky.
Uh, like I, I think we talked alittle bit previous to, uh, to,
(22:31):
to this podcast, but, uh.
You don't wanna say that?
Well, let me tell you how I'mgonna change everything.
Well, I'm not sure I'm gonnachange anything.
I just wanna find out how thingsare working.
But if I had to focus on onething, it would be the
membership experience.
Now that's a big term, and I'mnot even sure how I could put
it, uh, wrap it up.
But what I'm saying is, are wegiving in giving the the
(22:54):
members.
What they're paying for andpaying for with time and money.
And I think time is moreprecious than money in this
case.
But, uh, but give them somethingthat they can take back.
Like you said, utilize out inthe outside world and use it
everywhere.
But how do I, uh, enhance that?
(23:15):
I think it comes down toeducation, like you're talking
about.
The education does not have tobe, education can just be
anything and just interaction,interaction with your brothers.
And that's where we're, we're.
Uh, we're making it toocomplicated in my view.
And, uh, I guess I would look,look at more of that.
(23:35):
Is it because we are men orbecause we're masons or both
that we seem to have thisobsession with complicated.
and if the solution seems tooeasy.
We just have this doubt, like,well, it can't be that easy
that, that's never gonna work.
'cause it's too simplified.
Yeah.
It's sad to be tougher thanthat.
Right.
How come, why didn't I do thatyesterday?
(23:56):
Why did we do this 50 years ago?
It's like, well, I can't be thesmartest guy in the room.
Come on now.
But, uh, no, I'm, I'm not surethe, uh, I think the man plays a
big role in that.
It's like, uh, again, we don'twant to be vulnerable.
It's like, well, I don't wantto, put myself out there.
Well, that's many times is isthe case.
It's like.
It's okay to come in and say, Idon't know what to do.
(24:18):
What solutions do you have?
And it's okay to say, I don'tknow.
Uh, but, uh, we, that's toughfor people to say, what are the
three hardest things to say is,I'm sorry I'm wrong and I need
help.
Well, it's a big deal and if youlook at that, that's, uh,
something we're gonna always bestruggling with till the day we
die.
But it's, uh, it's something weshould be looking at.
(24:39):
So It's a really good point andalso led me to think about a
conversation had recently aboutwho's the spark plug in your
lodge.
Usually that's two or threeguys.
The spark plugs, they don't haveall the answers.
They don't claim to have all theanswers, but they are organizing
(25:00):
everyone's input opinion, how todo it, how to execute it for the
greater good.
And to be a spark plugeffectively in lodge is usually
about a two year window.
Before that guy's gonna burnout, I've talked to other people
about this.
Hopefully I don't get introuble.
This is just my views, but ifyou look at a, it will just take
a lodge of a hundred people, ofa hundred people, just pare it
(25:23):
down and say about 10 to 15% ofthose people are really gonna be
active.
There's gonna be your officersand people doing stuff, and your
committees great.
Of those 10%, 10%, so now youget 10 people.
Pair it down again to 10 to 15%.
Those are your real doers.
Those are the people going, oh,that's a great idea.
I always go back to this.
I thought I came up with thisgreat idea with this medical
(25:46):
device, and I was talking to,this guy's name is Tom, and I
said, Tom, I, I don't know howI'd do this.
And he goes, well, could this bedone?
I said, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We we do it this way.
Yeah.
And we, we do that.
He goes, ah, I'm not sure.
He goes, how, how would weprototype that?
You know, I think I got stuffhere and I went through the
whole process and I'm back inthe lab and I'm building my
first prototype and I'm prettyexcited.
(26:08):
I'm in the middle of theprototype and I go, that guy,
that bugger, he, he knew what hewas doing.
He was just pushing me along theway.
And that's what we need is moreguys that can see the potential
and like yourself or whomeversaying, this guy is good at
this.
How do I get that out of him?
Um, I talked one time to agrandma from Manitoba.
(26:29):
I said, how do you handle this?
He goes, if I see a guy that'sreally useful, he goes, what
I'll do is I'll take, uh, and Igive them a script.
He goes, maybe he's too quiet,he doesn't want to get out.
He goes, I give him a littleproject and then I give him a
script and I go, what's onthere?
He goes, it's a script.
And I say, I'm gonna point toyou and say.
Brother give this a review andhe would do that.
(26:49):
And he goes, then next time he'dsay, Hey, uh, will you add on to
that a little bit?
And then a little more.
And he goes, pretty soon nowhe's giving us whole reports.
And he goes, I said, that'sbrilliant.
How do we do more of that?
Again, it's recognizing the, thevalue in these people and, and
bringing it out of them becausethey're not gonna, like I said,
if they're have some bit bit ofhumility, they're not gonna be
walking in saying, let me tellyou how cool I am.
(27:11):
Nobody's gonna listen to'em.
No.
And so, but anyway, I'm gettinga little long-winded on that
one.
But you had that prototype.
And rather than say, push youout of the way and say, well,
Reid do it like that, he helpedyou find it yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's a mentor.
That's a, it's a true mentor.
That's true Collaboration.
Those guys are, they're, he wasjust good at it, but he was
(27:32):
good.
Everybody loved Tom.
He was good at it.
Next thing you know, he'srunning the company and you're
going, this guy, I want to belike that.
And that's another good thingwe, we talk about is, is, uh,
how can you give back?
Uh, is, is.
Do you have to do something coolor can you just be the good
mentor?
And, uh, I guess what I'm tryingto get at is, um.
Being the guy, the go-to guy,when I was in the military, I
(27:55):
was coming outta my a IT and uh,I said, what should I do?
I want to try to get promotedand these other things, and the
guy goes, be the go-to guy.
I said, what do you mean bythat?
He goes, be the go-to guy.
He goes, when somebody has aquestion, you take care of it.
You want to be the guy that'salways there and it's like,
okay.
He goes, no, you can't do itacross for the whole company,
but you can do it for thisproject.
(28:16):
And I picked the A RN 82 Butanyway, I was gonna be the
expert with that and it workedout.
And my point is, it's like ifyou got questions, I don't know,
talk to Reed on that.
He knows what he's doing.
But, uh, that seems to, seems tohelp.
And if we could have thosespecialties guys in, uh, the
lodge, do.
Be the go-to guy in a way thateven if you don't have all of
(28:38):
the answers, you can say, youknow what?
I don't know, but I knowsomebody, I'm gonna loop another
person in that will have theinstitutional knowledge that
will have the answer.
Really, leadership in thatsetting.
Leadership is about seeing thosearound us rise.
It's not having all the answers.
It's not pontificating, it's notsaying, listen to me, just
(29:00):
because I'm in the east wearingthe hat, holding the gap.
But it, it's really.
It's such a collaborative tent,isn't it?
Oh, 100%.
When you're talking about, uh,when I say be the go-to guy,
that's not being the, the mostknowledgeable guy.
Uh, again, this is work related,but I was talking to a guy, uh,
he ran a different company.
I said, oh, how do you know?
(29:20):
How do you handle this stuff?
And he goes, I don't.
And I said, what do you meanwhen you go into this meeting?
You're giving your full boardreview and everything.
You've got this all on top ofyour end.
He goes, Nope, I don't.
He goes, I've got my entire teambehind me.
And he, he goes, they asked me aquestion.
I go, that's Tom's question.
That's Bob's question.
Mm-hmm.
And he, he goes, so basicallyyou put together the right team.
And the team is there to supportyou.
(29:43):
But if he was the all knowing,I, I always say this about a
secretary.
I said, uh, I was talking to aguy down there who's a, a
secretary of a lodge.
And I said, we'll, say thatyou're the best secretary in the
United States.
That's great.
You, you have developed yoursomething into, into something
that's unique.
You get hit by a bus, it alldies.
(30:03):
I said, what we need to do istake your knowledge and spread
it across the whole lodge.
So we all know something ofthat.
Well, Reed, it's not efficient,then I can't get things done.
In fact, uh, as fast I said,it's not so much about getting
things done in a time, in atimely manner.
It's not always about that, butit is about developing the
people and it's like having themgive, uh, improve their
(30:24):
confidence, uh, which is, it's,it's what we should be doing.
It's like, I'm, I don't know howto do that.
Well, great.
it reminds me of a lodgesecretary who had his role for
40 years.
He was an oracle, he knew atall, but he had no interest.
In sharing some of thatknowledge and in disseminating
some of the how to what if typeof information to anybody, and
(30:49):
that's an area of opportunityfor us to leverage that brother,
especially in a lodge settingthat does have a.
The knowledge and the experienceand the stories to tell.
But how many more guys can youshare some of that with in order
to uplift those around you?
Get them involved?
Yes.
And also have a part of thesolution process.
(31:10):
Yeah.
Get them involved is the biggestdeal, our biggest, uh, item
there.
Uh, you have the, the, uh, I, wealways talk about the master
Master's supposed to be allknowing he knows what's going
on.
I said, well, actually hedoesn't.
All he does is he knows who tocontact.
He's the ones responsible, butactually getting the work done
and doing this stuff is bringingin your other players.
(31:31):
Like you said, you're a baseballteam, isn't just a pitcher, you
know, so.
Right.
It's, I know of a master who hada really good year, a couple
years back, and I asked himoutright, how did you do that
and have all the answers for,and he, he stopped me right
there to your earlier point andsaid, by the time I got to the
east, I had such a supportingcast of brothers that knew their
(31:55):
role, knew how valued they werein that role, but I, I got to
sit back and just help.
Orchestrate it all.
Yeah.
I think, uh, I just mentioned,it's not too long ago, but I
said, what does the manager do?
He, uh, disseminates informationand removes roadblocks.
That is all he does.
Yes.
And then, but you're relying onyour other people, but as you're
(32:17):
coming up through the chairs andyou're going through your, your
different roles.
You may not have been juniorwarden the same as the previous
junior warden, but you'replaying a role and you're
working with the team.
The senior warden now knows whatthe junior warden is good at and
what he's not good at.
Maybe he's not a good publicspeaker, or maybe he's not the
best ritualist or whatever itis, But it's the team knowing
(32:37):
the strength of the team andwhere it lies and, and that's
where we need to recognize thatand, and develop that.
Couldn't agree more.
Okay, Reid Hoge, in an effort toget to know you better for
listeners both in Minnesota whoknow you and your brothers in
Arizona, by the way, please sayhi to Antonio, Wayne, and David
(32:58):
from me.
Thank you.
I'll do that.
What is a lot more popular thanit deserves to be?
In what fashion?
That's up to you in life.
What's more popular than itdeserves to be?
The only thing I would saywhat's more popular than it
needs to be is, it.
(33:20):
Celebrity worshiping.
Yeah.
Is what I'm saying.
That needs to go away andthey're just normal people.
That's probably doesn't pertainto what we're talking about,
gimme another one.
Okay.
What is something you lookforward to every day?
Every day.
(33:42):
See if I said every week, Iwould've said, I enjoy talking
to my friends, uh, whether it'son phone or meeting them, but
just conversations.
And so I suppose I could use mywife and say, I enjoy finding
out about what's going on inher.
Her life.
Uh, but when I, I talk to myfriend in Jamestown once a week.
pick up the phone and Nice.
(34:03):
And I find that it's like you'rehaving a bad day.
You pick up the phone, see whatReid's got going on.
Suddenly you, your life isn't sobad.
You, you, you get outta outtayour own head a little bit.
Then.
I'm a big believer in that.
What is something that seemslike it should appeal to you but
doesn't I used to be a bigfootball fan way back when I was
(34:28):
a Steelers fan, probably.
'cause North Dakota didn't havea.
I have a, uh, professional teamthen, but, uh, big football fan
and then suddenly I just diedaway from it.
That has plagued me forever.
They go, oh, you're not a manand don't like football.
I said, actually, I likefootball.
I don't like a lot of theplayers that play football.
Mm-hmm.
It is tough if you're not fullyimmersed into a fantasy league
(34:50):
or something.
It seems like you're, you'requestioned of Well, how, what's
wrong with you?
Well, I'm still holding a, adeep seated grudge against
Coleman.
I think it was the kicker of theVikings when they were supposed
to go to the playoffs and hemissed the field goal.
Gary Anderson.
Was that, what was 1999?
I'm still mad.
Yeah, me too.
I was at the game.
I'm going, I, I'm done.
And I didn't even turn on the TVfor football for years, and I'm
(35:11):
still holding that grudge, so.
I wrote them off after that fora long time.
I did.
Yes.
I was really bad.
It's like people bring it up andgo, no losers, I don't wanna
deal with them.
Then I moved my, uh, focus touh, uh, NDSU bison for, but
they're always winning.
So that's kind, that's alwaysgonna, well it's Sue, so, you
know.
So gross.
Well, alright, so we have hockeyUND.
(35:31):
Yeah.
Fargo can have their football.
That's the way it is.
We gotta spread out the wealthbill.
Yeah, I suppose.
Alright, now randomly, I pulledthis out of the deck.
A very applicable questionbecause you have lived in both
North Dakota, you are Mason andMinnesota, and now you live in
Arizona.
But what is great about whereyou live now?
Oh, uh, the weather in thewinter is great.
(35:53):
but you know, that said, I, I,there's no perfect place to be.
And uh, like I like going backto North Dakota and people say,
well, what's North Dakota like?
I've never been there.
And I said, you're not fromthere.
I said, they said no.
I said, well, don't, don't,don't go there.
You're not gonna like it.
And just don't go.
We're trying to keep people out.
So, but, uh, but anyway, but Ido like, uh, like Arizona, it's,
(36:14):
but it takes a while'cause youget.
There's so much green up here.
Mm-hmm.
And so much moisture.
Moisture is you and water.
You guys got it everywhere.
It's like we see a drop overthere.
Well, you're wasting water.
My goodness.
We gotta save that stuff.
But, uh, but you know, I, I, butI like it.
Uh, like the, the, where I'm atright now in Arizona, the
(36:35):
diversity.
If you go up to Flagstaff at7,000 feet and you go to the
Grand Canyon, 8,000.
On the North Ram, it's 9,000feet.
Well, you've got, it's uh, it'svery similar to Northern
Minnesota, but if you go downto, uh, Tucson, of course you
have, you know, the desert andstuff, but it, the diversity,
you can, you can see quite a bitof different country, country
(36:55):
without traveling a lot ofmiles.
I attended the outdoor degree inlate February this year, and it
was so great to get out of.
Now we had a mild winter inMinnesota.
It really was not that bad, butvery excited to go to Arizona.
The weather for all of theobvious things, and I'm very, I
was reluctant to tell ourfriends and brothers in Arizona,
(37:17):
it was almost too hot.
Yeah.
Even in late February.
So do you ever get that withthe.
The summertime, is it, is it asextreme in Arizona in the
summertime as it can be here inJanuary on the winter end of the
spectrum?
I think that's a good, that's agood, uh, correlation.
I mean, the cold, cold up hereis similar to the hot, hot, uh,
but do you ever get used to it?
(37:39):
I don't know.
I've only been there 10 yearsand I don't know if I'm ever
gonna get used to it.
It's, uh, like I tell people in,when you tell somebody from
Minnesota, North Dakota that.
You know, a hundred isn't reallythat bad.
And they, they say, what?
That's, are you insane?
I said, no, it really isn't bad.
I said, 105 is still doable.
Mm-hmm.
110.
Now I'm getting a little grumpy.
And I said, when it gets above110, now that you just shut
(38:01):
down.
And, uh, but, uh, yeah, it's, ittakes a while to get used to.
Read Hoge.
You're serving as the seniorGrand Deacon for the Grand Lodge
of Arizona.
It's so great to see you.
Have you back in Minnesota onthe road trip.
Please say hi to your lovelywife, Marla.
You may not recall.
We had a conversation at theNorth Dakota Annual
(38:22):
Communication last year.
My life was changed.
My hope Butter, I'm telling you,man.
Oh yes.
Do you remember thatconversation?
Yes.
If you've never tried HopeButter, you gotta try it.
Oh.
It's just, is this not the mostMidwestern thing to be talking
about is butter?
Well, another thing peopleoverlook, I said, you cannot buy
summer sausage in a decentsummer sausage in Arizona.
(38:44):
Really?
So I was, uh, I, I buy it now inNorth Dakota and I buy it in,
uh, in, uh, in Minnesota here.
I tell that to people and uh,they go, oh, that's crazy.
So I started making my own, uh,summer sausage, which I thought
was kind of a neat idea.
I gave somebody to my neighborand he goes, oh, what is this
stuff?
And I'm going, what this, whereare you from?
Dan Dan's from Montana, which isa little embarrassing.
(39:07):
He doesn't know how to do, uh,uh, summer sausage, but neither
here nor there.
So I gave him something.
He goes, this stuff is great.
He goes, I was at home.
At home and I put a ranchdressing on it.
And I go, okay, you're, you'reoutside of the home.
No, you don't get any moresummer sausage because you don't
put ranch, ranch dressing.
Put that on.
Come on.
We put that on everything aroundhere.
I, yes, but I had to scold himfor that.
(39:29):
It's been great chatting withyou today, my brother.
Appreciate you and hope to seeyou again very soon.
Thanks for having me on.
It's, uh.
It was not my desire to be onhere, I'll tell you that much.
It wasn't bad, right?
It was not bad.
Uh, but uh, it was a little,little, this is not my forte.
So you did great.
And this has been anotherepisode of Minnesota Masonic
Histories and Mysteries.
(39:49):
Thanks Reed.
I.
Welcome back to Minnesota, myfriend.
(00:01):
Good to see you.
Good to see you, Reed.
Good to be back.
Is this where we say it's theread and Read show?
I dunno if I got that far.
But it is Reed and Reed.
Reed.
Hoge, it's so good to have youback in Minnesota on the
summertime visits you were bornin Jamestown, North Dakota.
My home state of North Dakota,you joined Nelson Lodge number 1
35 in Buffalo, A Life membersince 2013.
(00:25):
Relocated to Arizona andaffiliated with Flagstaff Lodge.
Number seven in 2015.
You currently serve the GrandLodge of Arizona as a senior
grand deacon.
How is life in general?
Uh, I tell you, it's good to beup here in the summertime that
that helps.
Uh, but every, everything isgoing pretty well.
Road trips, typically you andyour wife love to, right?
(00:47):
Is that that's your thing?
Uh, yeah.
If, if I can drive there, I'mgonna drive.
And if I can't drive there, Iusually change the location to
where someplace I can drive.
So doesn't that get.
Tedious to you.
It is, does not, I get thatquestion all the time.
It's like, what do you do?
And I said, there's all thisstuff to look at.
I mean, there's the world, the,the whole landscape changes.
(01:07):
And I grew up on a farm, and,uh, as you're driving through,
you're going, gosh, why?
Why are they using that type of,uh, machinery?
And they're different machineryfrom what we use up in North
Dakota.
And anyway, I I enjoy that.
You married your lovely wife,Marli in 1995, retired in 2022
to dedicate more time to masonryand traveling with your wife.
(01:28):
How is Marli?
She's doing well.
She's visiting her family and Ikinda lose touch of her when she
re reunites with her family.
She disappears and does stuff.
Really?
Oh my goodness.
Off the grid.
She goes off the grid.
We have a calendar together andonce she gets with her family
it, it blows up.
She just disappears.
Well, you certainly can't saythe visit wasn't productive
(01:51):
then.
Oh, it's very productive.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, you served in the US Armyas an avionics technician and
combat engineer among other MOSspecialties.
Your professional career was asa medical applications engineer
For many innovators in themedical profession.
You've worked for companies likeMedtronic, Boston Scientific,
(02:11):
several startup medicalcompanies in Minnesota,
Colorado, and Arizona.
I'd love to hear some aboutthat, but more importantly,
how's retirement been so far?
It's good.
It takes a little getting usedto, uh, I, I liked going into
work and, but, uh, I, I miss theroutine of innovating, uh,
coming up with new ideas and howto make a product better for
(02:35):
the, for the end user.
But, uh, I'm getting into it,been two years into it and I'm
getting there.
So you've maintained yourmembership in Minnesota with
Nelson Lodge Zero Shrine, theMinneapolis Scottish Rite.
I know you're also active in thePhoenix York, right.
Bodies.
Other than the obvious, well,the winter is better.
How's life in Arizona been sofar?
(02:56):
It's been good.
Uh, the, the, when I first moveddown to Arizona.
I was talking to one of thepeople, one of the, I think it
was the secretary of of thelodge I was at, and I said, what
is the difference betweenA-F-N-A-M and FNAM?
So I actually had to get thatinformation from the, the, uh,
what was it?
Uh.
(03:17):
Freemasons for dumb reason, butmy sec, the secretary had said,
Reid, the only differencebetween AF n am and FNAM is one
letter A.
Well, that's completely wrong.
Uh, there's several times I hadused utilized a different ritual
and such, but, uh, but Idefinitely like, uh, seeing the
difference between a F am and FNam and see what Minnesota's
doing and what Arizona's doing.
(03:39):
And speaking of your currentrole as the senior Grand Deacon
for the Grand Lodge of Arizona.
How's that going so far?
I think this podcast is fun totalk to brothers from different
jurisdictions to hear what'sgoing on elsewhere, as we all
somewhat have a tendency to geta little inward focus sometimes
from state to state.
I guess the biggest thing is,uh, is, is.
(04:03):
Being the senior grand deacon,it really isn't any different
than anything else.
But I am exposed to more of theworkings of the Grand Lodge, and
that's very interesting.
And then of course, why I'm, uh,was one of the things I wanted
to take care of while I was uphere.
Was to talk to how does GrandLodge up in Minnesota run?
And you guys up in Minnesota doa wonderful, wonderful job and
(04:25):
some of the things we wannaadopt.
And I think that's, we do thison a lodge level, but uh, we
need to be doing more.
And on a grand lodge level iswhat's working well, uh, and
what's not working, and let's gothrough all of them and as we
find out what works well to goahead and, uh, try to adopt that
into our jurisdiction.
And that's easier said thandone, but that, that's done by
doing what we're doing today.
(04:46):
Just talking.
I really do appreciate that partof the 21st century aspect of
Freemasonry that so many statesand jurisdictions are sharing
ideas with one another.
Not necessarily the solution orthe magic playbook.
However, there's a lot ofcautionary tales that we can
share with one another that wemay have tried 20 years ago, 10
(05:08):
years ago for certain aspects ofmembership retention or
community engagement, gone arethe days of, well, we're just
doing our own thing andnevermind.
Over here there's a, there's areal spirit of collaboration
across the country.
100%.
The, uh, lemme back up.
I guess I should say I've, oneof the things I like doing as a
Grand Lodge officer is visitingother grand lodges, uh, not
(05:31):
just, uh, Minnesota, but NorthDakota.
Uh.
We went to Hawaii.
Uh, but just going to thedifferent jurisdictions to see
what they're doing, like yousaid, is finding out what went,
what worked well, okay, thoseare easy ones we can implement.
What didn't go well?
Well this didn't work.
Oh, tell me more about that.
And they'll go into detailabout, well, this didn't work
(05:51):
'cause of X, Y, Z.
Maybe it was a timeframe issue.
Uh, maybe it was a, a culturalissue, I don't know.
But what can we take from thatand hone it for our use?
And that's.
Again, harder to do than uhsaid, but it's something I'd
like to work on.
One of the things that you and Italked about offline is how do
(06:12):
we refine the experience, themember experience, and that can
be both for a new member orsomeone who's a little more
seasoned, who's been around fora while, we have an influx of
incoming members all seeking.
To reconnect again, that humanto human connection, that mentor
(06:32):
mentee opportunity.
What do you see as some of theareas of opportunities that we
can refine that experienceacross the board for any state?
I think we talked a little bitabout, uh, our current members,
uh, that are maybe not showingup to lodge.
Why aren't they showing up tolodge?
Uh, is it, is it their personalissues, personal lodges?
(06:55):
I guess their personal, uh, um.
Situations.
Well, that's, that, that stuffthat's out, out of our control.
But maybe they just, they aren'ta fit for that lodge or whatever
it is.
But let's find out they, theyall have worth and how can we
utilize that And, and, uh, thoseshould, that should be our first
focus is getting to, uh, findout what that is.
(07:16):
Can we correct the problem?
But how can we get them back inlodge because they, they were
made a mason for a reason.
Let's, uh, make sure they'repart of the team.
Then for the, the new guys, youknow, we've got an influx, a lot
of new people out there, well,they're, they have completely
different views, some rights,some wrong, but, uh, uh, they
all are, can add to it to add toour experience, but it makes a,
(07:39):
it's useful to have, I guesswhat I'm saying, in Minnesota,
85% or more of new prospectsthat are coming through be a
freemason.org, 85% plus.
Have a wish or an ask of givingback to the community, how can I
give back to the greater good?
(08:00):
I found that to be very telling,doing this role day to day and
in my lodge visits when I visita lodge that doesn't have much,
sometimes doesn't have anythingas far as community engagement,
that's a a really big morningsign to me.
No, I, I agree.
The, uh, I, I've not heard that,that, that number, 85%.
It's huge.
(08:21):
That's quite uplifting, I'lltell you that much.
Uh, but, uh, now we just have togive them a mechanism to, uh,
work, work as a team to givesomething back.
When we look back with hindsightbeing 2020, does it ever feel
like we have been trying to basea large culture solely around
(08:43):
the administrative requirementsof what we do?
Yes.
And uh, Yeah, we try to putevery lodge into a, a, uh, a box
and say, this is how a lodgeshould run.
But really every lodge isindividual and it's, it's the
people in it.
I mean, lodge where I meet, uh,at, uh, Veia Lodge, uh, also
(09:05):
has, uh, they rent from.
Paradise Valley Silver Patrol,they're completely different
lodges and, and, and we, wedon't think that should be the
exact same.
We all have the same ritual.
We all have the same rules, butthey're completely different
cultures.
And, uh, yes, we, we, we need toread what's good with the
culture and, and, uh, learn fromit.
(09:29):
When I bring that topic up fordiscussion, it often gets
misunderstood or misinterpreted.
Someone will say, yeah, let'snot do the administrative.
Well that, no, we, we willalways have our ritual and we
have our customary opening andclosing.
And yes, we will always vote onand discuss and do the minutes,
(09:50):
but if that's all that we'reoffering.
If it's put together at the 11thhour, if our standards to open
and close that, that opportunityto have that mental reset from
the outside world, we areopening our lodge with a level
of pride and taking a deepbreath, turning off the device,
(10:11):
having a lodge meeting witheducation that is something
useful that I could utilizeoutside of the lodge room.
I don't know about you, butpersonally, I don't want to go
to lodge and hear a 40 minutespresentation on George
Washington.
I love George Washington, but Icould get that at home.
I can order that book on Amazonand stay home with a dog in my
(10:34):
lap with my wife next to me.
Sometimes we over complicate itand think that, well, could it
be, could it really be thatsimple to let our members know
when we're gonna meet what we'regoing to eat, the opportunity to
get together and know what'sgoing on in each other's lives
and have an element ofeducation, whether specifically
(10:55):
Masonic or I call it nonMasonic, in the sense that it
could be a topic outside of thecipher, outside of Albert Pike
or what have you.
Some sort of education thatuplifts enriches into something
that will leave me thinking, I'mglad I went to lodge tonight and
I'll be back next month too, asopposed to that 11th hour.
(11:20):
And I guess we don't have alodge education thing tonight.
I, we, we forgot about the meal.
We're just gonna have pizzaagain or nothing.
I'm a big believer in, uh, inplanning out anything.
'cause uh, things usually justdon't happen on their own.
We have to put our own humantouch into it.
But we always go like, you talkabout the 11th hour, well I'll
(11:41):
just show up and we'll talkabout what we talk about.
Right?
But then nobody's really thoughtabout it and usually get one or
two guys that are very good atspeaking.
Uh, they do most of the talking.
I'm interested in the guy in thecorner.
Is thinking about it, but nottalking about it.
And, uh, but you, you weretalking about education.
We often get wrapped up in somuch detail to, to the
(12:04):
education.
It's, we're gonna go over this,we're gonna go over that, we're
gonna go over this.
And those are always useful.
But what I do get, what I reallylike, uh, when they're.
I guess, uh, home spun.
My, uh, is when they're justtalking about whatever, uh, uh,
a friend of mine once gave aeducation on a Saturday.
I want a wet shave.
And I go, what?
(12:25):
And John goes, no, I'm justgonna have a wet shave.
And I go, why?
He goes, do you know not a wetshave?
And I go, you know, I've neverdone that.
And he went with, with straightline.
He goes, exactly, we're gonna dothat.
And I go.
That's kind of a good, it was abig hit, really.
And I've, so I would've neverguessed that.
And then that, once you realizethat, that works.
So people are interested in justfun things and just, and, and
(12:45):
people wanna know what you know,and you wanna know what I know.
And it's like our whole, uh,goal here is it trade ideas and
trade, uh, concepts, whetherthey work or not, but it's like,
oh, you know, he, I like whatReid said on that.
Let's change this a little bitand that'll work.
And like you were talking about,use, utilizing what we learned
in a lodge and taking it outsidea lodge.
(13:06):
Well, yeah, that's, that's whatwe should be doing.
But it's, uh, if we hear aboutGeorge Washington, it's like,
well, that's hard sometimes torelate some of that stuff to,
uh, to what I'm doing.
You know, George Washington's apretty cool guy.
I think we all have a tendencyto think that, well, large
education had better be reallyheavy all the time in a really
(13:28):
long editorial about whateverthe topic is, and there's a time
and place for that.
I, I love that part too, but canwe get a little balance in which
we have like the, that, that'sreally interesting or there's
some topics that would be wellreceived and interesting that
you may not ever think would beAnother thing that I saw happen
(13:48):
at a lodge that I, I reallyliked, so that he brought the
prospects in, uh, before lodge.
And while they were there, therewere six of them there.
And he, he asked each one ofthem that, uh, something that
your, tell me something thatyour parent did, uh, taught you
that you still utilized today.
And why?
Well, that's kind of cool.
(14:09):
And he told a little, a littlestory about his, how his mother
taught him this, and it's stilluseful.
I said, that is pretty neat.
But the important part was rightafter that, he could point to
anyone in lodge.
Now he doesn't know many ofthese people.
He would just point to this guyand say, now you tell me.
Well, now you're having a guysitting right next to you.
And this information that cameout of that, I'm going.
Well, this is kind of neat and,uh, this is kind of, kind of
(14:32):
interesting but anyway, theywent around the room and, uh, I
said, any way we can get thepeople engaged, that's really
what we're looking for.
And that's the, that's alwaysthe secret sauce.
There's a lodge I visited thathas a section of their stated
meeting called the beehive, andit's an open floor.
(14:53):
It's usually led off by themaster, but not necessarily.
The goal of the beehive portionis just literally knowing what's
going on in each other's lives.
The good, what are wecelebrating, what are you
struggling with?
And it's been so impactful forthat lodge and the ripple
effect.
It has days and weeks after thestate it has occurred.
(15:16):
Guys are checking in with eachother.
Hey man, thanks for sharing Yougot promoted at work.
How's the new gig so far?
Or thanks for sharing that.
You've had a bit of bout ofdepression.
You've had, you've been goingthrough a tough chapter, a tough
section of life.
How can I be there for you?
What can I do?
(15:39):
A very simple approach to makingbrotherhood, a verb and not a
noun.
What are your thoughts on that?
I really like the idea.
So they, what I like about it isthe, uh, the, again, you're,
you're just finding outsomething.
'cause we don't walk up tosomeone and say, Reid, tell me
what your darkest secrets are.
(16:00):
Exactly.
They're not gonna tell you that.
I mean, so they, if you get'emtalking, and I, I've said this
several times, there's, uh.
Every relationship, business orpersonal starts with one thing.
Uh, it starts with trust and,uh, or their lack of, and I
think people forget the, ortheir lack of.
And what I'm talking about iswhen you walk up, I don't know
(16:21):
you that well.
So it's like, well, I don'ttrust you to tell you my deepest
and darkest secrets, but you geta format where it's like, well,
wait a second, Bob over there.
He said some pretty interestingthings.
It's like, I guess it wouldn'tbe bad for me to say that, you
know, sure.
I'm sad my dog died, or whateverit is.
It's like, then you open up andthen it gets a little more, and
that's how friendships are bornand, uh, and, and they last a
(16:43):
lifetime.
But we, we, uh, we struggle withthat.
I know I do.
I think everyone does.
It's like, well, how do you putyourself out there?
That's a danger zone.
That's an area I don't want togo to because, you know, you're
at risk and everyone wants to rereduce risk in life and business
too.
But, uh.
this topic comes up time andagain on this podcast, and
(17:04):
usually someone will say, I'm alittle reluctant to ask somebody
how life is, because they maynot be ready or prepared for the
30 minute onslaught of a rereply that they get.
That is a good point.
So it's also having theself-awareness to maybe not just
open the floodgates there in themoment, but we talk a lot about
(17:26):
how large culture affectsmembership, retention,
attendance, desire to getinvolved in a committee or be an
officer possibly.
It's really, really vital intoday's world with so many
distractions and so many optionsof where to devote what little
free time.
(17:46):
Anyone has lodges that have aculture where their members know
they are loved, wanted andneeded, they know that their
brothers have their back, and,and maybe that's not a hundred
percent we, you and I both know,we don't resonate with every
single brother in lodge.
We're all brothers.
We all have our, our select fewthat we know, that's my go-to.
(18:09):
That's the guy that I can leanon when life is kicking me from
one side to the other and viceversa.
It feels at times like we'vebeen just chasing numbers,
thinking that, well, this group.
May have fallen off from thelast couple of years, but let's
just go find more guys and thenwe'll just see if they enjoy the
(18:32):
administrative portion of ourlodge.
While we don't really stop andget to know each other, it's,
it's not that complicated, butit takes time.
It takes.
A long approach, the infiniteperspective of friendship, of
really making brotherly lovefelt in our hearts when we get
together.
And we can't just flip a switchand do that.
(18:53):
Yeah.
We so, so, Reid, how do we fixthat?
No, I, I don't have a solutionfor that, but we are always
building a.
In search of buildingrelationships.
Uh, and, and we do this all thetime.
Uh, why did I join Masonry?
Um, I was asked that at my veryfirst official visit, and I went
to there and the guy goes, whydid you join?
Uh, uh, masonry?
And I stumbled a little bitgoing well, I wanted to be
(19:15):
around good people.
And uh, but that's kind of abroad, you're painting with a
big paintbrush there.
But, uh, uh, we we're lookingfor good people to surround us
and, uh.
We don't know who those peopleare.
You walk by'em in the street.
Maybe he's the best guy that Ishould that meet and, and get to
know.
But you, you're, you're not putin the certain, the same
surroundings you get to, uh,within lodge.
(19:36):
Again, I'm talking about thetrust factor.
You, you're, you learn a littlebit about the guys like, oh, he
has same, uh, interests that Ihave.
Same, um, um, I guess samethings.
You're, maybe you're plaguedwith the same concerns or
whatever they are.
Mm-hmm.
But they, uh, you learn aboutthat.
And then as you can startbuilding on that, like you said,
we're, we're building arelationship, but they are not
(19:59):
built overnight.
And we think that, oh, great,this is gonna work.
You know, all the time.
Time is our is, is, is, is thebiggest attribute in that, that
we have to give it time and thengive it attention, which is hard
to do.
Well, and we throw the wordbrotherhood out all the time.
it's brotherhood, it's brotherlylove, it's this, and, which is
(20:20):
true, but that's just adescription until it's actually
in motion.
I, I feel like there's aparallel in the workplace.
You work alongside someone.
You know their hobbies a littlebit.
You know their kids' names, youknow the activities they're
involved in, but that's it.
(20:41):
A, a guest was recently in herewho made such a great point.
Why is it that we find out somany amazing things about our
brothers at their funeral?
He's really tired of having thathappen.
It makes him kind of sad, butit's really invigorated him to
go out and in his lodge.
At dinner, at social time atOuter Lodge to really get to
(21:04):
know one another, and that's notcomplicated.
It's pretty simple.
Curiosity.
Curiosity is the cure for.
Feeling like an introvert orwhat am I gonna say to this guy
that I don't know?
Well, I think it's interestingis the, the really cool ones,
the guys you wanna meet will notcome up to you and say, did I
tell you what I've done?
Right.
I really don't wanna be aroundthose guys.
(21:25):
But the, the, it's the guys thatare sitting there.
And I went to a funeral not toolong ago and you mentioned that,
and, uh.
They were telling his bio of themilitary and he was going into
great detail.
It's like, well, he was a, um,airborne.
He was a ranger, and then, uh,he went to Vietnam and then he,
then he disappeared and we, forsix years, the military doesn't
(21:45):
have any record of this, and I'mgoing, what, what?
Guys that that's a really bigdeal.
He was doing some very specialstuff and everybody goes, oh no,
he was just gone.
I go, Hmm, no.
There's some files somewherethat we don't know about this
guy.
My point is, he was extremelycool guy that I didn't know
anything about.
I wish I would've known, knewbetter when he was alive.
So as you're serving currentlyfor the Grand Lodge of Arizona.
(22:11):
Year after year, they'reprobably going faster.
As you're making your way to theGrand East, what would you like
to see enhanced in terms of thatexperience for our members?
Well, that's a, that's, that'skind of tricky.
Uh, like I, I think we talked alittle bit previous to, uh, to,
(22:31):
to this podcast, but, uh.
You don't wanna say that?
Well, let me tell you how I'mgonna change everything.
Well, I'm not sure I'm gonnachange anything.
I just wanna find out how thingsare working.
But if I had to focus on onething, it would be the
membership experience.
Now that's a big term, and I'mnot even sure how I could put
it, uh, wrap it up.
But what I'm saying is, are wegiving in giving the the
(22:54):
members.
What they're paying for andpaying for with time and money.
And I think time is moreprecious than money in this
case.
But, uh, but give them somethingthat they can take back.
Like you said, utilize out inthe outside world and use it
everywhere.
But how do I, uh, enhance that?
(23:15):
I think it comes down toeducation, like you're talking
about.
The education does not have tobe, education can just be
anything and just interaction,interaction with your brothers.
And that's where we're, we're.
Uh, we're making it toocomplicated in my view.
And, uh, I guess I would look,look at more of that.
(23:35):
Is it because we are men orbecause we're masons or both
that we seem to have thisobsession with complicated.
and if the solution seems tooeasy.
We just have this doubt, like,well, it can't be that easy
that, that's never gonna work.
'cause it's too simplified.
Yeah.
It's sad to be tougher thanthat.
Right.
How come, why didn't I do thatyesterday?
(23:56):
Why did we do this 50 years ago?
It's like, well, I can't be thesmartest guy in the room.
Come on now.
But, uh, no, I'm, I'm not surethe, uh, I think the man plays a
big role in that.
It's like, uh, again, we don'twant to be vulnerable.
It's like, well, I don't wantto, put myself out there.
Well, that's many times is isthe case.
It's like.
It's okay to come in and say, Idon't know what to do.
(24:18):
What solutions do you have?
And it's okay to say, I don'tknow.
Uh, but, uh, we, that's toughfor people to say, what are the
three hardest things to say is,I'm sorry I'm wrong and I need
help.
Well, it's a big deal and if youlook at that, that's, uh,
something we're gonna always bestruggling with till the day we
die.
But it's, uh, it's something weshould be looking at.
(24:39):
So It's a really good point andalso led me to think about a
conversation had recently aboutwho's the spark plug in your
lodge.
Usually that's two or threeguys.
The spark plugs, they don't haveall the answers.
They don't claim to have all theanswers, but they are organizing
(25:00):
everyone's input opinion, how todo it, how to execute it for the
greater good.
And to be a spark plugeffectively in lodge is usually
about a two year window.
Before that guy's gonna burnout, I've talked to other people
about this.
Hopefully I don't get introuble.
This is just my views, but ifyou look at a, it will just take
a lodge of a hundred people, ofa hundred people, just pare it
(25:23):
down and say about 10 to 15% ofthose people are really gonna be
active.
There's gonna be your officersand people doing stuff, and your
committees great.
Of those 10%, 10%, so now youget 10 people.
Pair it down again to 10 to 15%.
Those are your real doers.
Those are the people going, oh,that's a great idea.
I always go back to this.
I thought I came up with thisgreat idea with this medical
(25:46):
device, and I was talking to,this guy's name is Tom, and I
said, Tom, I, I don't know howI'd do this.
And he goes, well, could this bedone?
I said, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We we do it this way.
Yeah.
And we, we do that.
He goes, ah, I'm not sure.
He goes, how, how would weprototype that?
You know, I think I got stuffhere and I went through the
whole process and I'm back inthe lab and I'm building my
first prototype and I'm prettyexcited.
(26:08):
I'm in the middle of theprototype and I go, that guy,
that bugger, he, he knew what hewas doing.
He was just pushing me along theway.
And that's what we need is moreguys that can see the potential
and like yourself or whomeversaying, this guy is good at
this.
How do I get that out of him?
Um, I talked one time to agrandma from Manitoba.
(26:29):
I said, how do you handle this?
He goes, if I see a guy that'sreally useful, he goes, what
I'll do is I'll take, uh, and Igive them a script.
He goes, maybe he's too quiet,he doesn't want to get out.
He goes, I give him a littleproject and then I give him a
script and I go, what's onthere?
He goes, it's a script.
And I say, I'm gonna point toyou and say.
Brother give this a review andhe would do that.
(26:49):
And he goes, then next time he'dsay, Hey, uh, will you add on to
that a little bit?
And then a little more.
And he goes, pretty soon nowhe's giving us whole reports.
And he goes, I said, that'sbrilliant.
How do we do more of that?
Again, it's recognizing the, thevalue in these people and, and
bringing it out of them becausethey're not gonna, like I said,
if they're have some bit bit ofhumility, they're not gonna be
walking in saying, let me tellyou how cool I am.
(27:11):
Nobody's gonna listen to'em.
No.
And so, but anyway, I'm gettinga little long-winded on that
one.
But you had that prototype.
And rather than say, push youout of the way and say, well,
Reid do it like that, he helpedyou find it yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's a mentor.
That's a, it's a true mentor.
That's true Collaboration.
Those guys are, they're, he wasjust good at it, but he was
(27:32):
good.
Everybody loved Tom.
He was good at it.
Next thing you know, he'srunning the company and you're
going, this guy, I want to belike that.
And that's another good thingwe, we talk about is, is, uh,
how can you give back?
Uh, is, is.
Do you have to do something coolor can you just be the good
mentor?
And, uh, I guess what I'm tryingto get at is, um.
Being the guy, the go-to guy,when I was in the military, I
(27:55):
was coming outta my a IT and uh,I said, what should I do?
I want to try to get promotedand these other things, and the
guy goes, be the go-to guy.
I said, what do you mean bythat?
He goes, be the go-to guy.
He goes, when somebody has aquestion, you take care of it.
You want to be the guy that'salways there and it's like,
okay.
He goes, no, you can't do itacross for the whole company,
but you can do it for thisproject.
(28:16):
And I picked the A RN 82 Butanyway, I was gonna be the
expert with that and it workedout.
And my point is, it's like ifyou got questions, I don't know,
talk to Reed on that.
He knows what he's doing.
But, uh, that seems to, seems tohelp.
And if we could have thosespecialties guys in, uh, the
lodge, do.
Be the go-to guy in a way thateven if you don't have all of
(28:38):
the answers, you can say, youknow what?
I don't know, but I knowsomebody, I'm gonna loop another
person in that will have theinstitutional knowledge that
will have the answer.
Really, leadership in thatsetting.
Leadership is about seeing thosearound us rise.
It's not having all the answers.
It's not pontificating, it's notsaying, listen to me, just
(29:00):
because I'm in the east wearingthe hat, holding the gap.
But it, it's really.
It's such a collaborative tent,isn't it?
Oh, 100%.
When you're talking about, uh,when I say be the go-to guy,
that's not being the, the mostknowledgeable guy.
Uh, again, this is work related,but I was talking to a guy, uh,
he ran a different company.
I said, oh, how do you know?
(29:20):
How do you handle this stuff?
And he goes, I don't.
And I said, what do you meanwhen you go into this meeting?
You're giving your full boardreview and everything.
You've got this all on top ofyour end.
He goes, Nope, I don't.
He goes, I've got my entire teambehind me.
And he, he goes, they asked me aquestion.
I go, that's Tom's question.
That's Bob's question.
Mm-hmm.
And he, he goes, so basicallyyou put together the right team.
And the team is there to supportyou.
(29:43):
But if he was the all knowing,I, I always say this about a
secretary.
I said, uh, I was talking to aguy down there who's a, a
secretary of a lodge.
And I said, we'll, say thatyou're the best secretary in the
United States.
That's great.
You, you have developed yoursomething into, into something
that's unique.
You get hit by a bus, it alldies.
(30:03):
I said, what we need to do istake your knowledge and spread
it across the whole lodge.
So we all know something ofthat.
Well, Reed, it's not efficient,then I can't get things done.
In fact, uh, as fast I said,it's not so much about getting
things done in a time, in atimely manner.
It's not always about that, butit is about developing the
people and it's like having themgive, uh, improve their
(30:24):
confidence, uh, which is, it's,it's what we should be doing.
It's like, I'm, I don't know howto do that.
Well, great.
it reminds me of a lodgesecretary who had his role for
40 years.
He was an oracle, he knew atall, but he had no interest.
In sharing some of thatknowledge and in disseminating
some of the how to what if typeof information to anybody, and
(30:49):
that's an area of opportunityfor us to leverage that brother,
especially in a lodge settingthat does have a.
The knowledge and the experienceand the stories to tell.
But how many more guys can youshare some of that with in order
to uplift those around you?
Get them involved?
Yes.
And also have a part of thesolution process.
(31:10):
Yeah.
Get them involved is the biggestdeal, our biggest, uh, item
there.
Uh, you have the, the, uh, I, wealways talk about the master
Master's supposed to be allknowing he knows what's going
on.
I said, well, actually hedoesn't.
All he does is he knows who tocontact.
He's the ones responsible, butactually getting the work done
and doing this stuff is bringingin your other players.
(31:31):
Like you said, you're a baseballteam, isn't just a pitcher, you
know, so.
Right.
It's, I know of a master who hada really good year, a couple
years back, and I asked himoutright, how did you do that
and have all the answers for,and he, he stopped me right
there to your earlier point andsaid, by the time I got to the
east, I had such a supportingcast of brothers that knew their
(31:55):
role, knew how valued they werein that role, but I, I got to
sit back and just help.
Orchestrate it all.
Yeah.
I think, uh, I just mentioned,it's not too long ago, but I
said, what does the manager do?
He, uh, disseminates informationand removes roadblocks.
That is all he does.
Yes.
And then, but you're relying onyour other people, but as you're
(32:17):
coming up through the chairs andyou're going through your, your
different roles.
You may not have been juniorwarden the same as the previous
junior warden, but you'replaying a role and you're
working with the team.
The senior warden now knows whatthe junior warden is good at and
what he's not good at.
Maybe he's not a good publicspeaker, or maybe he's not the
best ritualist or whatever itis, But it's the team knowing
(32:37):
the strength of the team andwhere it lies and, and that's
where we need to recognize thatand, and develop that.
Couldn't agree more.
Okay, Reid Hoge, in an effort toget to know you better for
listeners both in Minnesota whoknow you and your brothers in
Arizona, by the way, please sayhi to Antonio, Wayne, and David
(32:58):
from me.
Thank you.
I'll do that.
What is a lot more popular thanit deserves to be?
In what fashion?
That's up to you in life.
What's more popular than itdeserves to be?
The only thing I would saywhat's more popular than it
needs to be is, it.
(33:20):
Celebrity worshiping.
Yeah.
Is what I'm saying.
That needs to go away andthey're just normal people.
That's probably doesn't pertainto what we're talking about,
gimme another one.
Okay.
What is something you lookforward to every day?
Every day.
(33:42):
See if I said every week, Iwould've said, I enjoy talking
to my friends, uh, whether it'son phone or meeting them, but
just conversations.
And so I suppose I could use mywife and say, I enjoy finding
out about what's going on inher.
Her life.
Uh, but when I, I talk to myfriend in Jamestown once a week.
pick up the phone and Nice.
(34:03):
And I find that it's like you'rehaving a bad day.
You pick up the phone, see whatReid's got going on.
Suddenly you, your life isn't sobad.
You, you, you get outta outtayour own head a little bit.
Then.
I'm a big believer in that.
What is something that seemslike it should appeal to you but
doesn't I used to be a bigfootball fan way back when I was
(34:28):
a Steelers fan, probably.
'cause North Dakota didn't havea.
I have a, uh, professional teamthen, but, uh, big football fan
and then suddenly I just diedaway from it.
That has plagued me forever.
They go, oh, you're not a manand don't like football.
I said, actually, I likefootball.
I don't like a lot of theplayers that play football.
Mm-hmm.
It is tough if you're not fullyimmersed into a fantasy league
(34:50):
or something.
It seems like you're, you'requestioned of Well, how, what's
wrong with you?
Well, I'm still holding a, adeep seated grudge against
Coleman.
I think it was the kicker of theVikings when they were supposed
to go to the playoffs and hemissed the field goal.
Gary Anderson.
Was that, what was 1999?
I'm still mad.
Yeah, me too.
I was at the game.
I'm going, I, I'm done.
And I didn't even turn on the TVfor football for years, and I'm
(35:11):
still holding that grudge, so.
I wrote them off after that fora long time.
I did.
Yes.
I was really bad.
It's like people bring it up andgo, no losers, I don't wanna
deal with them.
Then I moved my, uh, focus touh, uh, NDSU bison for, but
they're always winning.
So that's kind, that's alwaysgonna, well it's Sue, so, you
know.
So gross.
Well, alright, so we have hockeyUND.
(35:31):
Yeah.
Fargo can have their football.
That's the way it is.
We gotta spread out the wealthbill.
Yeah, I suppose.
Alright, now randomly, I pulledthis out of the deck.
A very applicable questionbecause you have lived in both
North Dakota, you are Mason andMinnesota, and now you live in
Arizona.
But what is great about whereyou live now?
Oh, uh, the weather in thewinter is great.
(35:53):
but you know, that said, I, I,there's no perfect place to be.
And uh, like I like going backto North Dakota and people say,
well, what's North Dakota like?
I've never been there.
And I said, you're not fromthere.
I said, they said no.
I said, well, don't, don't,don't go there.
You're not gonna like it.
And just don't go.
We're trying to keep people out.
So, but, uh, but anyway, but Ido like, uh, like Arizona, it's,
(36:14):
but it takes a while'cause youget.
There's so much green up here.
Mm-hmm.
And so much moisture.
Moisture is you and water.
You guys got it everywhere.
It's like we see a drop overthere.
Well, you're wasting water.
My goodness.
We gotta save that stuff.
But, uh, but you know, I, I, butI like it.
Uh, like the, the, where I'm atright now in Arizona, the
(36:35):
diversity.
If you go up to Flagstaff at7,000 feet and you go to the
Grand Canyon, 8,000.
On the North Ram, it's 9,000feet.
Well, you've got, it's uh, it'svery similar to Northern
Minnesota, but if you go downto, uh, Tucson, of course you
have, you know, the desert andstuff, but it, the diversity,
you can, you can see quite a bitof different country, country
(36:55):
without traveling a lot ofmiles.
I attended the outdoor degree inlate February this year, and it
was so great to get out of.
Now we had a mild winter inMinnesota.
It really was not that bad, butvery excited to go to Arizona.
The weather for all of theobvious things, and I'm very, I
was reluctant to tell ourfriends and brothers in Arizona,
(37:17):
it was almost too hot.
Yeah.
Even in late February.
So do you ever get that withthe.
The summertime, is it, is it asextreme in Arizona in the
summertime as it can be here inJanuary on the winter end of the
spectrum?
I think that's a good, that's agood, uh, correlation.
I mean, the cold, cold up hereis similar to the hot, hot, uh,
but do you ever get used to it?
(37:39):
I don't know.
I've only been there 10 yearsand I don't know if I'm ever
gonna get used to it.
It's, uh, like I tell people in,when you tell somebody from
Minnesota, North Dakota that.
You know, a hundred isn't reallythat bad.
And they, they say, what?
That's, are you insane?
I said, no, it really isn't bad.
I said, 105 is still doable.
Mm-hmm.
110.
Now I'm getting a little grumpy.
And I said, when it gets above110, now that you just shut
(38:01):
down.
And, uh, but, uh, yeah, it's, ittakes a while to get used to.
Read Hoge.
You're serving as the seniorGrand Deacon for the Grand Lodge
of Arizona.
It's so great to see you.
Have you back in Minnesota onthe road trip.
Please say hi to your lovelywife, Marla.
You may not recall.
We had a conversation at theNorth Dakota Annual
(38:22):
Communication last year.
My life was changed.
My hope Butter, I'm telling you,man.
Oh yes.
Do you remember thatconversation?
Yes.
If you've never tried HopeButter, you gotta try it.
Oh.
It's just, is this not the mostMidwestern thing to be talking
about is butter?
Well, another thing peopleoverlook, I said, you cannot buy
summer sausage in a decentsummer sausage in Arizona.
(38:44):
Really?
So I was, uh, I, I buy it now inNorth Dakota and I buy it in,
uh, in, uh, in Minnesota here.
I tell that to people and uh,they go, oh, that's crazy.
So I started making my own, uh,summer sausage, which I thought
was kind of a neat idea.
I gave somebody to my neighborand he goes, oh, what is this
stuff?
And I'm going, what this, whereare you from?
Dan Dan's from Montana, which isa little embarrassing.
(39:07):
He doesn't know how to do, uh,uh, summer sausage, but neither
here nor there.
So I gave him something.
He goes, this stuff is great.
He goes, I was at home.
At home and I put a ranchdressing on it.
And I go, okay, you're, you'reoutside of the home.
No, you don't get any moresummer sausage because you don't
put ranch, ranch dressing.
Put that on.
Come on.
We put that on everything aroundhere.
I, yes, but I had to scold himfor that.
(39:29):
It's been great chatting withyou today, my brother.
Appreciate you and hope to seeyou again very soon.
Thanks for having me on.
It's, uh.
It was not my desire to be onhere, I'll tell you that much.
It wasn't bad, right?
It was not bad.
Uh, but uh, it was a little,little, this is not my forte.
So you did great.
And this has been anotherepisode of Minnesota Masonic
Histories and Mysteries.
(39:49):
Thanks Reed.
I.
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