April 24, 2025 • 19 mins
Gather 'round, folks! We’re diving deep into the wild waters of grace at Fallen & Free 2025 with the Misfit Preachers – Tullian, Jean, and Byron. Picture this: three unlikely heroes hanging out in Jupiter, Florida, and serving up a buffet of truths about grace, especially for all us prodigals and ragamuffins. The crew tackles three juicy lies about grace that make the rounds in religious circles: that it’s not biblical, not practical, and not historical. Spoiler alert: they dismantle these myths faster than you can say ‘Jesus loves you!’ With plenty of laughs and some serious soul-searching, they remind us that grace is not just a theological concept; it’s the lifeline for the most messed-up among us. It turns out, grace isn’t just for the saints; it’s for the real, raw, and sometimes ridiculous people we are. So if you’re looking for a refreshing perspective on grace that doesn’t shy away from the messy bits, you’re in for a treat!
Takeaways:
- Grace isn't just a fancy concept; it's the lifeboat for the most messed up!
- We tackled three big lies about grace: it’s biblical, practical, and historical, folks!
- Our past mistakes don’t define us; grace is there to rescue and renew us all!
- Jesus came for the ragamuffins and prodigals, and we're all in that club together!
- Feeling stuck? Grace is the key that unlocks the door to freedom and joy!
- When life gets messy, remember: grace isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being loved!
Chapters:
- 00:01 - Introduction to the Misfit Preachers
- 01:55 - Understanding the Lies About Grace
- 07:05 - The Challenge of Grace
- 09:48 - The Decision to Preach Romans
- 14:12 - The Transformative Power of Grace
- 16:57 - The Revelation of Grace
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
You're listening to the misfitpreachers, Talian Chavigian, Jean
Larue and Byron Yan fromProdigalPodcast.com we're plagiarizing
Jesus one podcast at a time.Now here are the misfits.
Welcome to the misfit island.Yes, Misfit preachers. On my left
(00:24):
is Jean LaRue III. And on myright is Tully and Chevidge. And
I am Byron Yawn. And we arelive fallen and free in Jupiter,
Florida.
Yes.
So excited to be here. I wantto thank the sanctuary for hosting
this. Everybody who's beeninvolved in organizing this. Been
(00:47):
so much work. Tullian, for thevision for it. You guys are in for
a huge blessing over theweekend. And we are just very privileged
to be a part of this in thesmallest way. So we thought it would
be a great idea to jump in andhave a live recording of misfit preachers
and cover a very specifictopic that relates to the topic of
(01:08):
fallen and free on the subjectmatter of grace. And so what we're
going to do is we're going tocover three lies that are often propagated
about the teachings of grace.That you hear from Tullian, that
you hear from Jean Larue, thatyou hear from me, that you hear from
the sanctuary, that you hearfrom Christ. Here are those three
(01:31):
lines like you're.
Kind of doing the game showannouncer voice.
Do you not want it?
He came so close to notinterrupting. I like you were rolling.
I'm like, val, where are you? Val?
Oh, really?
It's not that. It's just.
Go ahead. I'm sorry.
Big mar in the parking lot.
I know what shame is. Allright, Tullian.
I got tons of it.
(01:51):
Well, how would you rather medo this in the Southern right? Lie
number one, ladies andgentlemen, grace is not biblical.
Lie number two, grace is notpractical. And lie number three,
grace is not historical. Solet's start with the first one. Grace
(02:15):
is not biblical. You can'tfind this teaching in the Bible.
Tullian, go, yeah, I haven'theard that grace isn't biblical a
whole lot. I mean, I've heardlots of objections over the years
to the things that I've beensaying for a long time. I haven't
(02:36):
heard so much that grace isn'tbiblical as much as I've heard unbiblical
qualifications of what graceactually is. So there are a lot of,
yes, grace, butinterpretations of passages and sections
of the Bible. The firstthought that came to mind, honestly,
(02:58):
when we were Talking aboutthis a little bit ago is I used to
live in a world where if it'sbiblical or what is biblical was
like of premier importance.People were studious, they cared
a lot about what the Biblesays. They wanted what we believe
(03:21):
to be verified and justifiedby what the Bible says. I still believe
that to be true. I just livein a very different world now. It's
not that the Bible is lessimportant, it's that I am now mixing
and mingling with people whodon't really care if grace is biblical
or not. Their questions aren'tis grace biblical? Their question
(03:45):
is more like what we're goingto get to in the second question,
which is does this actuallywork? Does this work in real life?
Does this work to comfort meand forgive me and help me and that
sort of thing? But I think toanswer the question shortly or quickly,
grace not being biblical is, Imean it's insanity for anybody to
(04:09):
affirm that. I don't even knownon Christians.
Just to clarify something, andyou clarified this in the beginning
so that we're not torching astraw man here. When people say that's
what we're saying is notbiblical, they mean that they, they
want to insert the grace.
And yeah, yes, grace, butyeah, yeah, yeah, so there. I mean
obviously grace is scarybecause it up ends our system of
(04:37):
checks and balances anddeservedness and merit and those
sorts of things. It'suncomfortable. I think that's one
of the reasons why we resistit. It's scary. It wrestles control
out of our hands. And so whenthe primary messaging that comes
from religious circles is thatthe focus of the Christian faith
(04:58):
is the life of the Christian,the life of the Christian, doing
more, trying harder, gettingbetter, climbing higher, that sort
of thing. Grace seems to be anenemy to that project. What I would
call a self salvation.
Project doesn't seem to be right.
Absolutely. That's what it is.It is what is going to cause people
(05:22):
to change their behavior, tomodify their behavior to get better,
to stop doing the bad thingsand start doing the good things.
If we constantly tell peopleGod loves you unconditionally and
has given himself, himself toyou in the person of his son, to
cover all of your sins, past,present, future, so that you now
(05:45):
live your life under a bannerthat reads it is finished. The primary
objection that I get when Isay those kinds of things come from
people like I mentioned a fewminutes ago, who want to qualify
it without really knowing whythey want to qualify it. Now there
they may be using the Bible asJustification. And if I preach on
(06:06):
a particular passage, Romans8:1, for instance, there is therefore
now no condemnation for thosewho are in Christ Jesus. Not. There
will one day be nocondemnation if you learn to fly
straight. There will one daybe no condemnation if you get better.
But there is therefore now nocondemnation for those who are in
Christ Jesus. When I say thatkind of thing, they will always throw
(06:31):
another verse at me or anotherpassage at me, which seems to indicate
that this whole thing is aboutus working, doing, trying, that sort
of thing. So I think,psychologically speaking, I think
the reason that grace isresisted has a much less to do with
(06:51):
what they believe the Biblesays or doesn't say, and much more
to do with their own humancondition and the resistance of grace
that comes natural to all ofus. Really.
That's excellent.
Right? I mean, you, you go tothe story of the workers in the vineyard,
right? I mean, the whole ideathat grace is unfair is biblical.
(07:13):
Right.
Like, if you, if you're, ifyour takeaway is that grace is unfair,
you're hearing it correctly.And I think when people say that
maybe necessarily the view ofgrace that we would espouse. How
did you say it at thebeginning? The unfettered, total,
free. When you fall, you don'tfall out of grace, you fall into
it. That view that they say isnot biblical would be really. They're
(07:36):
saying grace withoutdisclaimers is unbiblical.
Right? Yeah.
Right. Like it's too housebroken.
Grace without footnotes.
Right, right. You got it. Butthere's always the asterisk. And
so I think that's, that's thereal issue. And all over Scripture.
Do you see? I mean, I love theway you say it. There's, there's,
you should find me a hero inthe Bible other than Jesus. They
(07:56):
don't exist.
Yeah, they don't. No.
Yeah. I, I, the only thing Ihave to add to that, and thank you
for that answer, is that notonly is grace biblical, unconditioned
grace, but the opposition toit is also biblical.
Good point.
If you think about the ApostlePaul, he spent his entire life receiving
(08:18):
the criticisms and questionsand trying to make sure nobody put
conditions on it. All of hisletters are about this. Right. In
fact, the Book of Romans,which is essentially a fundraising
letter for Paul's ministry toJerusalem. He wanted to take a trip
to Rome, and he was planningon coming there. Never did. But he
(08:41):
had to because his opponentshad gotten ahead of him and said
things like, yes, grace, butyes, adding things to it. The book
of Galatians is where Pauljust loses it and throws something
against the wall, right? Butin the book of Romans, he carpet
bombs the people's heart withone of the most brilliant messages
(09:03):
that is there. I mean, Romans8 is the Mount Everest of the Bible
and proves that it is withoutcondition in every way possible.
And then Romans 8, 30, hetakes justification, sanctification,
glorification, and election,puts it in one container and says,
all of this is of grace. Thepoint being that the Apostle Paul,
(09:26):
who wrote the majority of theNew Testament, faced these criticisms
all the time. If you want toread the Bible through a pretty specific
lens, particularly Paul'sletters, read it through that lens.
He is constantly defending thegospel against conditions, constantly.
So not only is grace biblical,but the opposition to it is, you
(09:47):
know.
Probably back in 2012, I thinkI had decided many years ago that
I would not preach through thebook of Romans until I was at least
50, because it's such aweighty book. And I thought to myself,
what I will learn in my lifeand through my study by the time
(10:08):
I'm 50 is going to be so muchbetter than anything I could say
now. So I put it off. Put itoff. And I was preaching unconditioned
grace at the church that I wasserving at the time. And people were
confused. Some people wereconfused, people who had become accustomed
to the do more, try harder,get better, climb higher version
(10:32):
that they had heard ofChristianity. And, you know, I was
able to answer questions andpastor people through some of their
issues and objections. But Ihad two close friends of mine decide
simultaneously that they weregoing to leave the church because
I was essentially saying thesame thing every single week, but
(10:56):
in a different way. And Iremember that really messing me up.
It's one thing for people youdon't really know, but these were
two close friends, people whohad known me for a long time. And
I woke up one morning justreally frazzled by this. And I woke
(11:18):
up fearful that maybe I wasgetting it wrong. Maybe these two
close friends of mine aremessengers from God to steer me back
on a different track. I mean,that's really what I thought. I was
genuinely wrestling with it.And so I grabbed. I didn't even get
out of bed. I grabbed my Bibleoff the bedside table and I opened
(11:40):
it up to Romans. And in onesitting, I read Romans 1 through
8, every word. And by the timeI finished, I knew two things. Number
one, this is absolutely true.I mean, God used my reading of those
eight chapters to say, keepgoing, don't stop the Second thing
(12:06):
that I concluded when Ifinished those eight chapters was
I'm gonna preach throughRomans next. And I was maybe 41 at
the time.
Yeah.
So nine years before I said Iwas gonna do it. 50. But it was just.
It was the book of Romans andthose eight chapters in particular
that saved my life, that savedmy ministry. And it was such an affirmation,
(12:32):
confirmation from God himselfthrough his word that this is everything.
Absolutely the message. So asyou've heard me say a lot, you know,
I. My mission, my goal, and Ithink it should be the mission and
goal of every preacher andcommunicator of the gospel is not
to say 10,000 differentthings, is to say one thing 10,000
(12:56):
different ways. And that'sessentially what the Apostle Paul
did in and through all of his.
Thank you.
There it is.
Yeah.
Amen.
Before we, before we move on,I had the exact same experience where
I. I was. The gospel and gracewere coming dominant in my mind.
(13:16):
I was shedding a lot oftheology. And I had the same thought,
like, if you preach Romans toosoon, you're going to miss everything.
If you preach it too late,you're going to regret not having
preached it sooner. And Ipreached it right in the middle of
that experience. And for thepeople who were sitting in the audience
who were doubting because Iwas setting foot fire to their flannel
boards and moral heroes and those.
(13:38):
Sorts of things, that's such aterrible metaphor.
And they believed in theauthority of scripture. I thought,
you know what? Let's go. So wejust processed through Romans and
they saw it absolutely clearlythat it can be no other way. It's
either law and you do it, orit's grace and it's done for you.
(14:03):
That's it.
And it converted people to themessage. But I was. I was so, so
thankful for the providence ofGod. In the timing where I went,
I'm doing it.
I mean, the fact that it tookGod himself in and through the Bible
to reconvince me, that Iwasn't off on some bunny trail is
(14:27):
all the proof I need,existentially and personally, that
the message we have given ourlives to. This is the one last hill
I am willing to die on. Andit's true. And if you start, we'll
get into this in the nextepisode. But when you start teasing
out how this actually sets youfree and softens you, you just see
(14:53):
evidence of grace everywhere.We were sitting. Three of us were
sitting in a room with 50 guyslast night who had come in for fallen
and free and it's a recoverygroup setting, so guys are sharing
and they're opening up andsharing some really raw stuff. And
I'm thinking, even if theBible didn't teach this, I would
(15:15):
be tempted to believe itbecause this is so real. The fact
that the Bible does teach it,and it teaches it unashamedly and
clearly is, you know, that'ssort of the.
And it's, it permeates theentire Bible. I mean, Abraham believed
and it was counted to him asrighteousness. I mean, it's been
(15:35):
grace.
Well, they asked Jesus pointblank, what are the works the Father
requires? And he said tobelieve in the one whom he has sent.
John, chapter six.
There it is. I mean, James,which is always pointed to as, as,
you know, it's the kryptoniteto grace, right? And I think James
doubles down because whatJames says is, you say you have faith,
(15:57):
I say I have works. He said,but can such a faith save a man?
He, he goes to saving faith,he's not going to works. He says,
faith looks like, so it showsup. It makes you compassionate, it
makes you transparent, itmakes you loving. You find tears
in your eyes for people whosuffered like you do.
Well, and you and I went tothe same seminary, different campuses,
(16:20):
same seminary. I, we both satin classrooms. I mean, all three
of us did. We didn't go to thesame seminary, but we all, we all
three have sat in classroomsat the graduate school level with
some very learned, smart men,people who are scholars, New Testament
scholars, Old Testamentscholars, historians, theologians.
(16:42):
And I never heard. And I was,my gosh, man, I was exposed to the
best that Christianity had tooffer from the moment I came into
this world, surrounded by itmy entire life. And it wasn't until
my life got really hard and Iwent through a personal and professional
(17:05):
crisis long time ago, I mean,20, 20 2007, 2008, that I started
to realize that Jesus plusnothing equals everything. And as
soon as the light bulb wentoff, I got angry because I'm thinking,
dude, where has this been? Imean, I sat with some really smart
(17:30):
men who were supposed to teachme this stuff. I sat in Sunday school
classes, I went on youthretreats, I listened to sermons.
No one ever said this. It wasalways, yes, grace. But I learned
more about what grace wasn'tthan what it was. Grace doesn't mean
this, it doesn't mean that.
Can't do that.
No. And it was just. It was atone in the same time liberating and
(17:52):
maddening. Because I'mthinking, man, we have been robbed,
robbed of a message that setsus free in some wild ways. And the
church is just so damn scaredof the freedom that grace produces.
And it's a very commonphenomenon when people who've lived
in one world transitionthrough whatever temporal experience
(18:16):
into the reality of grace. Iwas talking to Kevin. We went to
lunch the other day. And I'mseeing it, the anger and the frustration.
I can't. Like, we should havekept our receipts for seminary sort
of experience. And I said. Isaid to him, kevin, let me diagnose
you. You're in what's known asthe cage stage, where you come to
(18:39):
the realization that this hasbeen hidden from you your entire
life. You've been climbing aladder somewhere and you're so furious.
The only thing that can bedone with you so as not to harm other
people is put you in a cage.
Right.
You're in the cage state.
Yeah.
And I told him the problem Ihad was when I went through the cage
stage, I was behind a pulpit.
Yeah.
It wasn't really a problem forme. But anyway, if you want to take
(19:01):
your church, what did you say?From 2500 to 750, that's the way
to do it.
So it is.
Anyway, great job, guys.
You've been listening to themisfit preachers. Like, subscribe
and share more grace centeredresources@prodigalpodcasts.com that's
Prodigal P R O D I G A Lpodcasts with an S Com.
You're listening to the misfitpreachers, Talian Chavigian, Jean
Larue and Byron Yan fromProdigalPodcast.com we're plagiarizing
Jesus one podcast at a time.Now here are the misfits.
Welcome to the misfit island.Yes, Misfit preachers. On my left
(00:24):
is Jean LaRue III. And on myright is Tully and Chevidge. And
I am Byron Yawn. And we arelive fallen and free in Jupiter,
Florida.
Yes.
So excited to be here. I wantto thank the sanctuary for hosting
this. Everybody who's beeninvolved in organizing this. Been
(00:47):
so much work. Tullian, for thevision for it. You guys are in for
a huge blessing over theweekend. And we are just very privileged
to be a part of this in thesmallest way. So we thought it would
be a great idea to jump in andhave a live recording of misfit preachers
and cover a very specifictopic that relates to the topic of
(01:08):
fallen and free on the subjectmatter of grace. And so what we're
going to do is we're going tocover three lies that are often propagated
about the teachings of grace.That you hear from Tullian, that
you hear from Jean Larue, thatyou hear from me, that you hear from
the sanctuary, that you hearfrom Christ. Here are those three
(01:31):
lines like you're.
Kind of doing the game showannouncer voice.
Do you not want it?
He came so close to notinterrupting. I like you were rolling.
I'm like, val, where are you? Val?
Oh, really?
It's not that. It's just.
Go ahead. I'm sorry.
Big mar in the parking lot.
I know what shame is. Allright, Tullian.
I got tons of it.
(01:51):
Well, how would you rather medo this in the Southern right? Lie
number one, ladies andgentlemen, grace is not biblical.
Lie number two, grace is notpractical. And lie number three,
grace is not historical. Solet's start with the first one. Grace
(02:15):
is not biblical. You can'tfind this teaching in the Bible.
Tullian, go, yeah, I haven'theard that grace isn't biblical a
whole lot. I mean, I've heardlots of objections over the years
to the things that I've beensaying for a long time. I haven't
(02:36):
heard so much that grace isn'tbiblical as much as I've heard unbiblical
qualifications of what graceactually is. So there are a lot of,
yes, grace, butinterpretations of passages and sections
of the Bible. The firstthought that came to mind, honestly,
(02:58):
when we were Talking aboutthis a little bit ago is I used to
live in a world where if it'sbiblical or what is biblical was
like of premier importance.People were studious, they cared
a lot about what the Biblesays. They wanted what we believe
(03:21):
to be verified and justifiedby what the Bible says. I still believe
that to be true. I just livein a very different world now. It's
not that the Bible is lessimportant, it's that I am now mixing
and mingling with people whodon't really care if grace is biblical
or not. Their questions aren'tis grace biblical? Their question
(03:45):
is more like what we're goingto get to in the second question,
which is does this actuallywork? Does this work in real life?
Does this work to comfort meand forgive me and help me and that
sort of thing? But I think toanswer the question shortly or quickly,
grace not being biblical is, Imean it's insanity for anybody to
(04:09):
affirm that. I don't even knownon Christians.
Just to clarify something, andyou clarified this in the beginning
so that we're not torching astraw man here. When people say that's
what we're saying is notbiblical, they mean that they, they
want to insert the grace.
And yeah, yes, grace, butyeah, yeah, yeah, so there. I mean
obviously grace is scarybecause it up ends our system of
(04:37):
checks and balances anddeservedness and merit and those
sorts of things. It'suncomfortable. I think that's one
of the reasons why we resistit. It's scary. It wrestles control
out of our hands. And so whenthe primary messaging that comes
from religious circles is thatthe focus of the Christian faith
(04:58):
is the life of the Christian,the life of the Christian, doing
more, trying harder, gettingbetter, climbing higher, that sort
of thing. Grace seems to be anenemy to that project. What I would
call a self salvation.
Project doesn't seem to be right.
Absolutely. That's what it is.It is what is going to cause people
(05:22):
to change their behavior, tomodify their behavior to get better,
to stop doing the bad thingsand start doing the good things.
If we constantly tell peopleGod loves you unconditionally and
has given himself, himself toyou in the person of his son, to
cover all of your sins, past,present, future, so that you now
(05:45):
live your life under a bannerthat reads it is finished. The primary
objection that I get when Isay those kinds of things come from
people like I mentioned a fewminutes ago, who want to qualify
it without really knowing whythey want to qualify it. Now there
they may be using the Bible asJustification. And if I preach on
(06:06):
a particular passage, Romans8:1, for instance, there is therefore
now no condemnation for thosewho are in Christ Jesus. Not. There
will one day be nocondemnation if you learn to fly
straight. There will one daybe no condemnation if you get better.
But there is therefore now nocondemnation for those who are in
Christ Jesus. When I say thatkind of thing, they will always throw
(06:31):
another verse at me or anotherpassage at me, which seems to indicate
that this whole thing is aboutus working, doing, trying, that sort
of thing. So I think,psychologically speaking, I think
the reason that grace isresisted has a much less to do with
(06:51):
what they believe the Biblesays or doesn't say, and much more
to do with their own humancondition and the resistance of grace
that comes natural to all ofus. Really.
That's excellent.
Right? I mean, you, you go tothe story of the workers in the vineyard,
right? I mean, the whole ideathat grace is unfair is biblical.
(07:13):
Right.
Like, if you, if you're, ifyour takeaway is that grace is unfair,
you're hearing it correctly.And I think when people say that
maybe necessarily the view ofgrace that we would espouse. How
did you say it at thebeginning? The unfettered, total,
free. When you fall, you don'tfall out of grace, you fall into
it. That view that they say isnot biblical would be really. They're
(07:36):
saying grace withoutdisclaimers is unbiblical.
Right? Yeah.
Right. Like it's too housebroken.
Grace without footnotes.
Right, right. You got it. Butthere's always the asterisk. And
so I think that's, that's thereal issue. And all over Scripture.
Do you see? I mean, I love theway you say it. There's, there's,
you should find me a hero inthe Bible other than Jesus. They
(07:56):
don't exist.
Yeah, they don't. No.
Yeah. I, I, the only thing Ihave to add to that, and thank you
for that answer, is that notonly is grace biblical, unconditioned
grace, but the opposition toit is also biblical.
Good point.
If you think about the ApostlePaul, he spent his entire life receiving
(08:18):
the criticisms and questionsand trying to make sure nobody put
conditions on it. All of hisletters are about this. Right. In
fact, the Book of Romans,which is essentially a fundraising
letter for Paul's ministry toJerusalem. He wanted to take a trip
to Rome, and he was planningon coming there. Never did. But he
(08:41):
had to because his opponentshad gotten ahead of him and said
things like, yes, grace, butyes, adding things to it. The book
of Galatians is where Pauljust loses it and throws something
against the wall, right? Butin the book of Romans, he carpet
bombs the people's heart withone of the most brilliant messages
(09:03):
that is there. I mean, Romans8 is the Mount Everest of the Bible
and proves that it is withoutcondition in every way possible.
And then Romans 8, 30, hetakes justification, sanctification,
glorification, and election,puts it in one container and says,
all of this is of grace. Thepoint being that the Apostle Paul,
(09:26):
who wrote the majority of theNew Testament, faced these criticisms
all the time. If you want toread the Bible through a pretty specific
lens, particularly Paul'sletters, read it through that lens.
He is constantly defending thegospel against conditions, constantly.
So not only is grace biblical,but the opposition to it is, you
(09:47):
know.
Probably back in 2012, I thinkI had decided many years ago that
I would not preach through thebook of Romans until I was at least
50, because it's such aweighty book. And I thought to myself,
what I will learn in my lifeand through my study by the time
(10:08):
I'm 50 is going to be so muchbetter than anything I could say
now. So I put it off. Put itoff. And I was preaching unconditioned
grace at the church that I wasserving at the time. And people were
confused. Some people wereconfused, people who had become accustomed
to the do more, try harder,get better, climb higher version
(10:32):
that they had heard ofChristianity. And, you know, I was
able to answer questions andpastor people through some of their
issues and objections. But Ihad two close friends of mine decide
simultaneously that they weregoing to leave the church because
I was essentially saying thesame thing every single week, but
(10:56):
in a different way. And Iremember that really messing me up.
It's one thing for people youdon't really know, but these were
two close friends, people whohad known me for a long time. And
I woke up one morning justreally frazzled by this. And I woke
(11:18):
up fearful that maybe I wasgetting it wrong. Maybe these two
close friends of mine aremessengers from God to steer me back
on a different track. I mean,that's really what I thought. I was
genuinely wrestling with it.And so I grabbed. I didn't even get
out of bed. I grabbed my Bibleoff the bedside table and I opened
(11:40):
it up to Romans. And in onesitting, I read Romans 1 through
8, every word. And by the timeI finished, I knew two things. Number
one, this is absolutely true.I mean, God used my reading of those
eight chapters to say, keepgoing, don't stop the Second thing
(12:06):
that I concluded when Ifinished those eight chapters was
I'm gonna preach throughRomans next. And I was maybe 41 at
the time.
Yeah.
So nine years before I said Iwas gonna do it. 50. But it was just.
It was the book of Romans andthose eight chapters in particular
that saved my life, that savedmy ministry. And it was such an affirmation,
(12:32):
confirmation from God himselfthrough his word that this is everything.
Absolutely the message. So asyou've heard me say a lot, you know,
I. My mission, my goal, and Ithink it should be the mission and
goal of every preacher andcommunicator of the gospel is not
to say 10,000 differentthings, is to say one thing 10,000
(12:56):
different ways. And that'sessentially what the Apostle Paul
did in and through all of his.
Thank you.
There it is.
Yeah.
Amen.
Before we, before we move on,I had the exact same experience where
I. I was. The gospel and gracewere coming dominant in my mind.
(13:16):
I was shedding a lot oftheology. And I had the same thought,
like, if you preach Romans toosoon, you're going to miss everything.
If you preach it too late,you're going to regret not having
preached it sooner. And Ipreached it right in the middle of
that experience. And for thepeople who were sitting in the audience
who were doubting because Iwas setting foot fire to their flannel
boards and moral heroes and those.
(13:38):
Sorts of things, that's such aterrible metaphor.
And they believed in theauthority of scripture. I thought,
you know what? Let's go. So wejust processed through Romans and
they saw it absolutely clearlythat it can be no other way. It's
either law and you do it, orit's grace and it's done for you.
(14:03):
That's it.
And it converted people to themessage. But I was. I was so, so
thankful for the providence ofGod. In the timing where I went,
I'm doing it.
I mean, the fact that it tookGod himself in and through the Bible
to reconvince me, that Iwasn't off on some bunny trail is
(14:27):
all the proof I need,existentially and personally, that
the message we have given ourlives to. This is the one last hill
I am willing to die on. Andit's true. And if you start, we'll
get into this in the nextepisode. But when you start teasing
out how this actually sets youfree and softens you, you just see
(14:53):
evidence of grace everywhere.We were sitting. Three of us were
sitting in a room with 50 guyslast night who had come in for fallen
and free and it's a recoverygroup setting, so guys are sharing
and they're opening up andsharing some really raw stuff. And
I'm thinking, even if theBible didn't teach this, I would
(15:15):
be tempted to believe itbecause this is so real. The fact
that the Bible does teach it,and it teaches it unashamedly and
clearly is, you know, that'ssort of the.
And it's, it permeates theentire Bible. I mean, Abraham believed
and it was counted to him asrighteousness. I mean, it's been
(15:35):
grace.
Well, they asked Jesus pointblank, what are the works the Father
requires? And he said tobelieve in the one whom he has sent.
John, chapter six.
There it is. I mean, James,which is always pointed to as, as,
you know, it's the kryptoniteto grace, right? And I think James
doubles down because whatJames says is, you say you have faith,
(15:57):
I say I have works. He said,but can such a faith save a man?
He, he goes to saving faith,he's not going to works. He says,
faith looks like, so it showsup. It makes you compassionate, it
makes you transparent, itmakes you loving. You find tears
in your eyes for people whosuffered like you do.
Well, and you and I went tothe same seminary, different campuses,
(16:20):
same seminary. I, we both satin classrooms. I mean, all three
of us did. We didn't go to thesame seminary, but we all, we all
three have sat in classroomsat the graduate school level with
some very learned, smart men,people who are scholars, New Testament
scholars, Old Testamentscholars, historians, theologians.
(16:42):
And I never heard. And I was,my gosh, man, I was exposed to the
best that Christianity had tooffer from the moment I came into
this world, surrounded by itmy entire life. And it wasn't until
my life got really hard and Iwent through a personal and professional
(17:05):
crisis long time ago, I mean,20, 20 2007, 2008, that I started
to realize that Jesus plusnothing equals everything. And as
soon as the light bulb wentoff, I got angry because I'm thinking,
dude, where has this been? Imean, I sat with some really smart
(17:30):
men who were supposed to teachme this stuff. I sat in Sunday school
classes, I went on youthretreats, I listened to sermons.
No one ever said this. It wasalways, yes, grace. But I learned
more about what grace wasn'tthan what it was. Grace doesn't mean
this, it doesn't mean that.
Can't do that.
No. And it was just. It was atone in the same time liberating and
(17:52):
maddening. Because I'mthinking, man, we have been robbed,
robbed of a message that setsus free in some wild ways. And the
church is just so damn scaredof the freedom that grace produces.
And it's a very commonphenomenon when people who've lived
in one world transitionthrough whatever temporal experience
(18:16):
into the reality of grace. Iwas talking to Kevin. We went to
lunch the other day. And I'mseeing it, the anger and the frustration.
I can't. Like, we should havekept our receipts for seminary sort
of experience. And I said. Isaid to him, kevin, let me diagnose
you. You're in what's known asthe cage stage, where you come to
(18:39):
the realization that this hasbeen hidden from you your entire
life. You've been climbing aladder somewhere and you're so furious.
The only thing that can bedone with you so as not to harm other
people is put you in a cage.
Right.
You're in the cage state.
Yeah.
And I told him the problem Ihad was when I went through the cage
stage, I was behind a pulpit.
Yeah.
It wasn't really a problem forme. But anyway, if you want to take
(19:01):
your church, what did you say?From 2500 to 750, that's the way
to do it.
So it is.
Anyway, great job, guys.
You've been listening to themisfit preachers. Like, subscribe
and share more grace centeredresources@prodigalpodcasts.com that's
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