February 13, 2025 • 14 mins
Pastors are often seen as these superhuman figures, floating above us mere mortals, right? But let’s be real: they’re just as human as the rest of us, and sometimes they’re carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders. In this episode, we’re diving into the loneliness and the struggles that come with being a local pastor. We’ve got Jean, Byron, and Tullian, three guys who’ve been there, done that, and got the scars to prove it. They’re sharing their own messy journeys and how they’ve stumbled through the minefield of ministry life. We chat about the crazy pressure pastors face to be perfect and how that pressure can lead to a crash and burn moment. It’s like trying to juggle flaming swords while riding a unicycle on a tightrope! Spoiler alert: it rarely ends well. But amidst the chaos, there’s a beautiful truth about God’s grace that shines through. These guys get real about failure and the unexpected wisdom that comes from it. If you’re a pastor or know one, you’re gonna want to tune in. It’s time to toss aside the superhero cape and embrace the glorious messiness of being human. Trust us, you’ll feel right at home with these ragamuffin preachers!
Takeaways:
- Pastors often hide their true selves, fearing they won't be accepted as broken people.
- Failure can be a great teacher; sometimes we learn the most when we hit rock bottom.
- Every pastor deals with loneliness and the fear of being judged for their struggles.
- Our greatest failures might actually be our best gifts to help others in need.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is going to be a masterclass on this subject because we're
masters at it. There are somelessons in life you can only learn
and levels of wisdom that youcan only learn by your world falling
down and you getting up on theother side of that and start walking
forward.
I think we want pastors tohear this, whether they are where
(00:23):
we were or about to be,because some of them are about to
be and they don't know it yet.For some, their greatest failure
may be ahead of them.
You'll probably not find threepeople more compassionate to your
secret struggles than us.
You're listening to the misfitpreachers, Tali and Chavigian, Jean
(00:46):
Larue and Byron Yan fromProdigalPodcast.com we're plagiarizing
Jesus one podcast at a time.Now here are the misfits.
Welcome to Misfit Preachers.
Bonus episode.
Bonus episode.
Didn't see that coming, did we?
It's a curveball with a veryspecific target. It's. It's Maddox
(01:09):
on the inside. So as usual, Iam here with the misfits. Jean LaRue
III, aka J3. I'm going to. AndTullian Chavigian.
Always good to be here.
All right. It is a bonusepisode and a very specific episode
(01:31):
targeted at a very specificgroup of people. And as it turns
out, this is going to be amaster class on this subject because
we're masters at it. And asfar as I know, gentlemen, I. I've
never seen this happen. Right.
(01:52):
What's the this?
People, individuals, pastorsin ministry who have failed in extraordinary
ways, go big or go home, haveprocessed through that, have repented
and begin making amends,restoring their lives, recovering
their faith and walk in faith,who've been given opportunity like
(02:16):
this and then turn around andattempt to show compassion towards
a group of people that arevery isolated right now. One of the
things that's in our minds,and if we look at it objectively,
it's true that we woulddisqualify hearing from people that
(02:37):
have been through what we'vebeen through, as if what we did disqualifies
everything we ever preached,right? What we did, and in particular,
what we've learned. In mymind, and I could justify this biblically,
it is, I think, a very goodidea to rethink that and reframe
(02:59):
that. It is in everybody'sbest interest always to sit at the
feet of failure, even in theirown lives or the lives of other people
and take notes. There's morewisdom there than you can really
find anywhere else. Anywhereelse. Now, in this particular case,
(03:19):
you have three men who wentthrough pretty severe.
Crashes and burns.
Yes, thank you. And have comeout the other side with a desire
to share from within ourexperience to the broadcast community
of humanity out there thathere's what we went through. Here's.
(03:40):
Here are the mistakes we madehere. Where. Here's where our mind
was, and here's why. Why itwill destroy you. Pay attention to
what we have to say. So we'recoming regardless of whether the
listener, and I would just saythe critics believe it or not. And
I don't care. We're reallycoming at this from a very, very
compassionate, sympathetic,and empathetic perspective. So that's
(04:03):
just to set the tone, and I'lllet you guys.
Now, did you say the targetwhere you said aimed at a very specific
target. What are we. Who arewe talking to?
Well, I'm assuming thatthey've read the title. Oh, so we're
talking to pastors. This goesout specifically to pastors.
Okay.
And we. From the beginning, wedon't assume that you were like us.
(04:23):
We don't assume that you werewhere we are. And we don't assume
that you're hiding some giantsecret, although there are always
secrets, or that your life ison the precipice of collapse, that
you've done something.Hopefully, by God's grace, you're
faithful in your role and willremain that way forever. But I will
(04:44):
say this. There are somelessons in life you can only learn
and levels of wisdom that youcan only learn by your world falling
down and you getting up on theother side of that and start walking
forward.
That is empirically true, anyway.
Well, the old saying is theburned hand teaches best.
(05:05):
Yeah.
Anyway, just fill in here onthe intro so that people know the
spirit in which we're offering.
I think we want pastors tohear this, whether they are where
we were or about to be,because some of them are about to
be and they don't know it yet.For some, their greatest failure
(05:29):
may be ahead of them. So itmay not be immediately relevant to
you now, but it may be. I hada friend of mine tell me years ago,
we preach grace even to thepeople who don't think they need
it now because they will atsome point. They'll remember what
(05:50):
you say when the diagnosiscomes in, that sort of thing. So
I think it's important,obviously, for pastors to hear this,
but I also think everybody, atleast in the religious world, has
an opinion about what churchesthe Christian community ought to
(06:10):
do, or the way they ought toapproach a Christian leader or a
pastor who bottoms out, whocrashes and burns. So while we want
preachers, past pastors,Christian leaders to hear that their
greatest failure may be theirgreatest gift to those who hear them,
(06:32):
we also want to help steer theconversation away from what it typically
is, which is guys like us who,at any point in their time as a pastor
or a Christian leader fall andfall. Big should go away and never
(06:53):
emerge. Go sell insurance, Gosell cars. I can't tell you how many
times I have heard from, youknow, strangers on social media.
Go find a job. Yes, you can beforgiven by God, but you can never
be restored to any form ofChristian leadership. You had one
(07:15):
shot. I heard a prominentpastor in Southern California not
long ago say, when it comes tothe ministry, you have one shot,
and if you blow it, you're outfor good forever. And I think that's.
That's what a lot of peoplehave been taught. That's what many
(07:35):
people think. And so for thepeople who have been taught that
or the people who think that,we want to give perhaps a different
perspective on this.
And in. In my mind, along thesame lines is saying to guys out
there who have. Haven't hadthe big blow up, haven't had the,
you know, the disdain of beingthe target of blogs and posts and
(07:59):
all that kind of stuff, you'llprobably not find three people more
compassionate to your secretstruggles than us.
Yeah.
And there's nothing, and Imean nothing, that you could email
us, tell us, talk to us. Imean, there would be nothing that
wouldn't know would make us.Because the truth is, we know the
(08:22):
fear that you live in.
Yeah. And this is a context inwhich sin does not shock and grace
still amazes. So I concur. Ifyou need to confess something and
not see a shocked reaction,we're the guys.
(08:43):
And the beauty of this medium.A podcast.
Yes.
Is that you don't have toassociate with us publicly to benefit
from us digitally.
You can listen to us in secret.
You don't have headphones.
You don't have to tell yourboard. You don't have to tell your
favorite preacher. You don'thave to tell your seminary. You don't
(09:07):
have to tell yourdenomination. You don't have to tell
anybody. You can just listen.
Just listen.
Yeah.
And take notes.
So let me. Let me begin withthis, and let's assume that it's
not all pastors that are listening.
No.
Right.
No.
Let me describe how difficultthe role of pastor is okay. It's
(09:31):
not the theological training,it's not the sermon prep that's the
hardest. It's not even caringfor the people typically, that's
the greater joy of it all.It's not the schedule, it's not being
on call 24 hours a day, it'sall of it. And I've mentioned this
(09:54):
when I told my story, but Ijust want to elaborate on it a little
more if I can, if you guyswill allow me. There's a. There's
a phenomenon known as offsetidentity disorder. Happens in careers
or industries where in orderto do it, you have to dedicate your
entire life towards it.Military, professional sports, various
(10:19):
other industries like that.CEOs, particularly entrepreneurial
startups, are part of it aswell. And essentially, essentially
the theory is that in order todo it, you have to dedicate your
entire life to it over a longperiod of time to master it. Which
means that there are certainnormal experiences in life you don't
(10:39):
get to participate in. So allthat socialization and interaction
experience that are on theoutside of it is very limited in
your life. Right? To do it,you have to dedicate totally towards
it. And by the time you gettowards the end of whatever that
career is, you leave thatcareer. And when you step out of
(11:04):
it, you realize that what youwere doing, you confused with who
you are and you panic at theend of that because your identity
was what you were doing. Now,here's how that applies to pastoral
ministry. The role of pastoralministry and why it's worse. And
I would argue that the hardestrole on the planet is pastoral ministry.
(11:25):
It's a blessed role, it'sprivileged role. All of those things
are true. But there's no otherrole where finances, community, family,
church, career, spirituality,friendships, relationships are all
(11:47):
stacked together. You pull oneof those out, it's like a giant Jenga,
they all fall down. That'scorrect. And there's no role out
there that is in more dangerof supplanting their actual humanity
with an avatar of ministrythan the pastoral role. That in and
(12:07):
of itself creates a veryunique danger. And here's how I'll
summarize this. If you're justnot in ministry and are listening,
I'm going to tell yousomething that's absolutely true.
Your pastor has never, ever,ever, ever been completely honest
with you about themselves.
(12:30):
True statement.
Ever. And any pastor who'slistening, you know it's true. Why?
Because the moment theirhumanity breaches the surface of
their reality and you see it,they are done they are disqualified.
Right?
Yeah. If it makes it outuncurated because we're. I'll speak
(12:51):
for myself. I was an expert atletting it out, but where I controlled
the flow.
Right.
So it comes out as actually asubtle illustration of my victorious
application of Jesus ratherthan an actual illustration of the
fact that I was an so.
Pastors are confessors buthave none. Right. They don't. There's
(13:17):
nobody they can go to to behuman broken and completely honest.
And that that reality is whatin my opinion not in everyone leads
to a lot of of the events thatare taking place with notifications
on your phone about anotherpasture has fallen. Is that everything?
(13:41):
No, but at some point you gotto look at the sample size and listen.
I'm just going to say it. Ifthe assumption is that our theology
was the cause, there's one ofour episodes you can go listen to
if you think our theology wasthe cause of our downfall. I think
the sample size is largeenough in other denominations and
other traditions that mutesthat completely. It mutes that. So
(14:07):
I just want to give thelistener a context for just the gravity
and the pull on humanitywithin the pastoral role.
You've been listening to themisfit preachers like subscribe and
share more grace centeredresources at Prodigal Podcasts. That's
(14:30):
prodigal P R O D I G A Lpodcasts with an s dot com.
This is going to be a masterclass on this subject because we're
masters at it. There are somelessons in life you can only learn
and levels of wisdom that youcan only learn by your world falling
down and you getting up on theother side of that and start walking
forward.
I think we want pastors tohear this, whether they are where
(00:23):
we were or about to be,because some of them are about to
be and they don't know it yet.For some, their greatest failure
may be ahead of them.
You'll probably not find threepeople more compassionate to your
secret struggles than us.
You're listening to the misfitpreachers, Tali and Chavigian, Jean
(00:46):
Larue and Byron Yan fromProdigalPodcast.com we're plagiarizing
Jesus one podcast at a time.Now here are the misfits.
Welcome to Misfit Preachers.
Bonus episode.
Bonus episode.
Didn't see that coming, did we?
It's a curveball with a veryspecific target. It's. It's Maddox
(01:09):
on the inside. So as usual, Iam here with the misfits. Jean LaRue
III, aka J3. I'm going to. AndTullian Chavigian.
Always good to be here.
All right. It is a bonusepisode and a very specific episode
(01:31):
targeted at a very specificgroup of people. And as it turns
out, this is going to be amaster class on this subject because
we're masters at it. And asfar as I know, gentlemen, I. I've
never seen this happen. Right.
(01:52):
What's the this?
People, individuals, pastorsin ministry who have failed in extraordinary
ways, go big or go home, haveprocessed through that, have repented
and begin making amends,restoring their lives, recovering
their faith and walk in faith,who've been given opportunity like
(02:16):
this and then turn around andattempt to show compassion towards
a group of people that arevery isolated right now. One of the
things that's in our minds,and if we look at it objectively,
it's true that we woulddisqualify hearing from people that
(02:37):
have been through what we'vebeen through, as if what we did disqualifies
everything we ever preached,right? What we did, and in particular,
what we've learned. In mymind, and I could justify this biblically,
it is, I think, a very goodidea to rethink that and reframe
(02:59):
that. It is in everybody'sbest interest always to sit at the
feet of failure, even in theirown lives or the lives of other people
and take notes. There's morewisdom there than you can really
find anywhere else. Anywhereelse. Now, in this particular case,
(03:19):
you have three men who wentthrough pretty severe.
Crashes and burns.
Yes, thank you. And have comeout the other side with a desire
to share from within ourexperience to the broadcast community
of humanity out there thathere's what we went through. Here's.
(03:40):
Here are the mistakes we madehere. Where. Here's where our mind
was, and here's why. Why itwill destroy you. Pay attention to
what we have to say. So we'recoming regardless of whether the
listener, and I would just saythe critics believe it or not. And
I don't care. We're reallycoming at this from a very, very
compassionate, sympathetic,and empathetic perspective. So that's
(04:03):
just to set the tone, and I'lllet you guys.
Now, did you say the targetwhere you said aimed at a very specific
target. What are we. Who arewe talking to?
Well, I'm assuming thatthey've read the title. Oh, so we're
talking to pastors. This goesout specifically to pastors.
Okay.
And we. From the beginning, wedon't assume that you were like us.
(04:23):
We don't assume that you werewhere we are. And we don't assume
that you're hiding some giantsecret, although there are always
secrets, or that your life ison the precipice of collapse, that
you've done something.Hopefully, by God's grace, you're
faithful in your role and willremain that way forever. But I will
(04:44):
say this. There are somelessons in life you can only learn
and levels of wisdom that youcan only learn by your world falling
down and you getting up on theother side of that and start walking
forward.
That is empirically true, anyway.
Well, the old saying is theburned hand teaches best.
(05:05):
Yeah.
Anyway, just fill in here onthe intro so that people know the
spirit in which we're offering.
I think we want pastors tohear this, whether they are where
we were or about to be,because some of them are about to
be and they don't know it yet.For some, their greatest failure
(05:29):
may be ahead of them. So itmay not be immediately relevant to
you now, but it may be. I hada friend of mine tell me years ago,
we preach grace even to thepeople who don't think they need
it now because they will atsome point. They'll remember what
(05:50):
you say when the diagnosiscomes in, that sort of thing. So
I think it's important,obviously, for pastors to hear this,
but I also think everybody, atleast in the religious world, has
an opinion about what churchesthe Christian community ought to
(06:10):
do, or the way they ought toapproach a Christian leader or a
pastor who bottoms out, whocrashes and burns. So while we want
preachers, past pastors,Christian leaders to hear that their
greatest failure may be theirgreatest gift to those who hear them,
(06:32):
we also want to help steer theconversation away from what it typically
is, which is guys like us who,at any point in their time as a pastor
or a Christian leader fall andfall. Big should go away and never
(06:53):
emerge. Go sell insurance, Gosell cars. I can't tell you how many
times I have heard from, youknow, strangers on social media.
Go find a job. Yes, you can beforgiven by God, but you can never
be restored to any form ofChristian leadership. You had one
(07:15):
shot. I heard a prominentpastor in Southern California not
long ago say, when it comes tothe ministry, you have one shot,
and if you blow it, you're outfor good forever. And I think that's.
That's what a lot of peoplehave been taught. That's what many
(07:35):
people think. And so for thepeople who have been taught that
or the people who think that,we want to give perhaps a different
perspective on this.
And in. In my mind, along thesame lines is saying to guys out
there who have. Haven't hadthe big blow up, haven't had the,
you know, the disdain of beingthe target of blogs and posts and
(07:59):
all that kind of stuff, you'llprobably not find three people more
compassionate to your secretstruggles than us.
Yeah.
And there's nothing, and Imean nothing, that you could email
us, tell us, talk to us. Imean, there would be nothing that
wouldn't know would make us.Because the truth is, we know the
(08:22):
fear that you live in.
Yeah. And this is a context inwhich sin does not shock and grace
still amazes. So I concur. Ifyou need to confess something and
not see a shocked reaction,we're the guys.
(08:43):
And the beauty of this medium.A podcast.
Yes.
Is that you don't have toassociate with us publicly to benefit
from us digitally.
You can listen to us in secret.
You don't have headphones.
You don't have to tell yourboard. You don't have to tell your
favorite preacher. You don'thave to tell your seminary. You don't
(09:07):
have to tell yourdenomination. You don't have to tell
anybody. You can just listen.
Just listen.
Yeah.
And take notes.
So let me. Let me begin withthis, and let's assume that it's
not all pastors that are listening.
No.
Right.
No.
Let me describe how difficultthe role of pastor is okay. It's
(09:31):
not the theological training,it's not the sermon prep that's the
hardest. It's not even caringfor the people typically, that's
the greater joy of it all.It's not the schedule, it's not being
on call 24 hours a day, it'sall of it. And I've mentioned this
(09:54):
when I told my story, but Ijust want to elaborate on it a little
more if I can, if you guyswill allow me. There's a. There's
a phenomenon known as offsetidentity disorder. Happens in careers
or industries where in orderto do it, you have to dedicate your
entire life towards it.Military, professional sports, various
(10:19):
other industries like that.CEOs, particularly entrepreneurial
startups, are part of it aswell. And essentially, essentially
the theory is that in order todo it, you have to dedicate your
entire life to it over a longperiod of time to master it. Which
means that there are certainnormal experiences in life you don't
(10:39):
get to participate in. So allthat socialization and interaction
experience that are on theoutside of it is very limited in
your life. Right? To do it,you have to dedicate totally towards
it. And by the time you gettowards the end of whatever that
career is, you leave thatcareer. And when you step out of
(11:04):
it, you realize that what youwere doing, you confused with who
you are and you panic at theend of that because your identity
was what you were doing. Now,here's how that applies to pastoral
ministry. The role of pastoralministry and why it's worse. And
I would argue that the hardestrole on the planet is pastoral ministry.
(11:25):
It's a blessed role, it'sprivileged role. All of those things
are true. But there's no otherrole where finances, community, family,
church, career, spirituality,friendships, relationships are all
(11:47):
stacked together. You pull oneof those out, it's like a giant Jenga,
they all fall down. That'scorrect. And there's no role out
there that is in more dangerof supplanting their actual humanity
with an avatar of ministrythan the pastoral role. That in and
(12:07):
of itself creates a veryunique danger. And here's how I'll
summarize this. If you're justnot in ministry and are listening,
I'm going to tell yousomething that's absolutely true.
Your pastor has never, ever,ever, ever been completely honest
with you about themselves.
(12:30):
True statement.
Ever. And any pastor who'slistening, you know it's true. Why?
Because the moment theirhumanity breaches the surface of
their reality and you see it,they are done they are disqualified.
Right?
Yeah. If it makes it outuncurated because we're. I'll speak
(12:51):
for myself. I was an expert atletting it out, but where I controlled
the flow.
Right.
So it comes out as actually asubtle illustration of my victorious
application of Jesus ratherthan an actual illustration of the
fact that I was an so.
Pastors are confessors buthave none. Right. They don't. There's
(13:17):
nobody they can go to to behuman broken and completely honest.
And that that reality is whatin my opinion not in everyone leads
to a lot of of the events thatare taking place with notifications
on your phone about anotherpasture has fallen. Is that everything?
(13:41):
No, but at some point you gotto look at the sample size and listen.
I'm just going to say it. Ifthe assumption is that our theology
was the cause, there's one ofour episodes you can go listen to
if you think our theology wasthe cause of our downfall. I think
the sample size is largeenough in other denominations and
other traditions that mutesthat completely. It mutes that. So
(14:07):
I just want to give thelistener a context for just the gravity
and the pull on humanitywithin the pastoral role.
You've been listening to themisfit preachers like subscribe and
share more grace centeredresources at Prodigal Podcasts. That's
(14:30):
prodigal P R O D I G A Lpodcasts with an s dot com.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.