Spooky Tales Told in the Dark

Steve welcome Cassie from Tales Told in the Dark. You can fin Tales Told in the Dark on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/@talestoldinthedark

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Everything out There with your host Steve Stockton. Hello, friends,
Steve's talking with you here once again Everything out There.

(00:21):
Thanks for joining us tonight. My guest is Cassie from
Tales Told in the Dark YouTube channel. She's gonna let
us know what she's up to and what all is
going on with the channel and beyond that. Cassie, thank
you for joining us this evening.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Oh so welcome. So I'm excited to do this.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Good to have you on here. I'm always looking for
her guests, and I thought, well, you know, cassieould be fascinating.
I love the narrations and things that you do over there.
It has, you know, a horror bent to it. Of course,
Tale's Told in the Dark and there's some really good
stuff over there, and you're a good narrator.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Really love listening to your voice and let us know
what's going on with your channel, what's coming up? And
I know of a couple of things, but I'll let
you tell. So the floor is yours. Let's see where
we go.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, I'm only loving all the horror. I love the scary.
The scary the better. I just did the Buddy Mary,
which did really good. What I'm working on now is
Bobby Yaka. So I'm out doing research for Bobbyaga, and
I'm going to give you guys something real nice about her,

(01:35):
the Slavic whitch from you know, Musha of course, So
got that one going. And I also want to kind
of dip into black what is it, skin Heel? What's
his name? Some Jack Jack?

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yes, yes, sorry, that's one of my favorite stories from
Victorian times. And I love that you're doing Bobby Yaga.
I remember when I was a little kid, they had
her stories, some of them. There's so many of them too.
It's just a part of the Slavic or the Eastern
European folklore. But there used to be, maybe still is,
a little magazine for kids called Jack and Jill, and
that was my introduction to Bobby Yaga. There was a

(02:14):
lot of wonderful stories over there.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
See. I'm just kind of learning about her and she
is so intriguing and yeah, so many, so many stories
in the Slavic you know culture with the Bobby Yaka,
you know, so so far, I'm kind of learning that
she was a witch out in the woods with her

(02:40):
chicken leg hut and a lot of it is about
she can be good or bad like she could if
you're bad, she can do bad, but if you're good
and she does good with you. And it's a lot
about teaching kids. I think you know, of course, all
them fairy tales are about being good and you know,

(03:01):
not not talking to strangers or you know, stuff like that.
So really loving Bob Yaga there. Uh, that one's kind
of fun. I like doing a lot of mythology, uh
cryptids or we get more into cryptids, like I said,
spring Hill check, Like that's like a mystery and I

(03:22):
love like mysterious mysterious stuff. So I just heard about
that just kind of glancing around YouTube. I kind of
get ideas or sometimes just epiphanies of what I want
to cover and share with my you know, my viewers.
So been having a lot of fun also also, I

(03:44):
know you like to hear a lot about like rural
rural hauntings and the paranormal that happened to people, which
I've always always kind of since I was about think
four years old that I can remember, I have had
paranormal encounters, like when I would go to San Jose

(04:06):
in Fresno to see my dad and my Grandma. When
I was little, I could actually see at least I
think I was seeing it, Like you know, when the
when the big old clocks in her house would strike twelve,
I would see these figures walking down her long hallway,
like every time the clock struck midnight. And you know,

(04:30):
there's a big old line of ghost spirits, I should say,
walking down her long hallway. And I don't know why.
I do not know why I was the only one
to see it, but I was the only one. But
I think I had something, and I think my mom
might have had something. But all the time when I

(04:53):
was little, like I would see if there was, you know,
a ghost around, I would see it. Like then we
moved to a street called Bridge Street when I was little,
and I just was a very airy aerie filling there.
And then every night you could hear like the rattling

(05:15):
of chains outside, and I would look out at the
window and you could see like well, I could see
like kind of a line of men just walking down
the road to the left. They were all had all
chained to each other walking down the road. And I
was telling my mom about it, and she said it

(05:38):
sounded like a train king. I think it's called what's
it called. I'm not sure what it's kind of called.
I was still little, but she was trying to tell
me it sounded.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Like sounds like a chain gang what they call it
in the old days. The prisoners were chained together and
forced to do some type of work, manual labor, and
there was a guards while over shotguns and stuff. Yeah,
that's fascinating, and that four years of age that seems
to be a magic age. A lot of guests that
I've had on here and people just that I've talked

(06:10):
to and interviewed and stuff, otherwise, four seems to be
the denominator. And that's what I had my first paranormal
experience that I can remember. It started around four and
basically went through all of childhood. Now, my mom didn't
see stuff like I did, but my grandmother did her mother,
so I think it kind of skips a generation sometimes,

(06:32):
but usually it comes from the maternal There's that, you know,
the Old Krone and all that type of thing in witchcraft,
the wise old woman, and I think there's some truth
to that.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, I definitely had some. I still have something, just
not as like it was, and I do of course
now I'm on medication for you know, anxiety, and so
I don't have a lot of it like I did.
But when I was back then, I guess it's maybe
because you're so little and you're you're so innocent, and
you're so close to the I don't know, they said
that they're so close to the veil whenever you know

(07:07):
you're just younger. But I I, yes, I went through
a lot.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Really, I think a lot of it's been educated out
of as you hear that's not true, that doesn't happen,
or you know, and just you're open to it as
a child or I was, and too older, I got
the less I experienced. Although I have had a lot
of uh paranormal supernatural encounters later in life. It seemed
to be much more active when I was younger. And

(07:35):
the same with the being an impath or anything like that.
I seem to have more of it. Maybe I've fine
tuned it. But then another theory I've heard put forth
is a florid in the water and in the it
calcifies the pino gland in the brain, and that's the
if you believe in those theories, that's the seat of

(07:56):
the third eye where you're all your sixth sense and
PSI kick powers and things come in. So if that's
calcified over that more or less shuts it off, and
that could be you know, I'm very put it's like
a conspiracy theory. But that's the reason that there's florid
in the water and in toothpastes of it's not so
much about teeth but helping to dumb people down. And

(08:17):
then nowadays, you know, we've bombarded with electricity and electronic waves,
the MF waves and radio waves and five G and
cell towers and things that it's no wonder that we've
lost a lot of that. I think we have those
abilities inherently as humans, but it's it's bread out of
us or taught out of us or I don't know,

(08:39):
but I've always been open to things like that, and
me too, I love it. I love every paranormal experience
I've had, even the frightening ones. But the ones you
talk about, they're seeing the ghosts in the house and
sitting here in the chain gang and things. That's that's frightening.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
It definitely was. I don't know why I was the
only one seeing it, and just for like a you know,
four or five year old seeing this stuff, It's like,
that's just like, why would I make up like a
chain game? Walking down the It was happening like every night,
so there must have been like a what do you
call it, like like a reoccurs like a reoccur like every.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Night, like a residual haunting where it's kind of stuck
in a loop and it plays over and over. Now,
the best theory I've heard about that other than the supernatural,
is the stone tape theory, where certain types of rock,
particularly that that has a high quartz or a crystalline content,
that it could imprint stuff on there. And if you

(09:41):
think about it, a videotape or an audio tape, that's
just a strip of my laar with farris oxide on there,
and then when you record either audio or video or both,
it charges those particles and then you play it back
and you get a repeat of what you recorded. Yeah,
that's how stone tape theory works. I believe there's some
truth to that. But then I also believe in the

(10:03):
par of normal. I believe in spirits. I don't know
necessarily that the dead come back, but I think some
of them stay. And that's kind of a paraphrasing of
a quote from John the Baptist, John of Patmos, who
apparently authored the Book of Revelation.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
So interesting, definitely, Like I sometimes feel like my mom
is here, like she's here all the time. So I
don't know if they come and go or you know.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, I think there's visitations like that. My mom saw
her mother, who had been passed away since seventy six,
and she had an encounter with her apparition, her mother's
apparition in two thousand and two in October, and my

(10:56):
daughter was at school. I was out doing something. My
dad had gone to to get some produce or something.
I might have been working that day, and my mom
was there by herself. She'd just gotten out of the
shower and she was drying her hair, standing in front
of the mirror, and she just happened she'd opened the
bathroom door to let the steam out. Just happened to

(11:17):
glance over and there stood her mother. Oh wow, all
the way in the dress that she was buried in,
and it just kind of shocked her. She said there
was somebody with her, but she could only see the
hem of their dress. It looked like a Gingham dress.
And she looked at her and she said, Mama, and
she said the apparition it didn't walk, but it just

(11:37):
glided backwards down the hallway toward her my dad's room,
and it scared her because of that whole side of
the family. They were into the spiritualism movement from around
the turn of the last century. They regularly when my
mom's a little girl. She was born nineteen twenty seven,

(11:57):
but when she was little in the thirties, they had seances,
table tappings, table tippings, played with the Luigi board. My
grandmother was a self press sevessed gypsy witch. I don't
know where the gypsy part comes from because she was
born in the case Coverary the Smokies, but I think
there's an old country in there somewhere that her side
of the family was from. But scared of my mom.

(12:19):
They believed in omens importance and signs and things, and
both my dad and I and my brother, who was
a Pentecostal minister, I'd tell her, oh, it's just nothing
to it. You know, you're probably tired. He was stressed,
but she's like, no, I know what I saw. It
was my mother And well, the next year, in September
my dad passed away suddenly two days before it is

(12:42):
eighty second birthdays or September, and I thought, well, maybe
that's what that was all about. But then my mom
got sick after my dad passed away. She was a
three time cancer survivor. Right after my dad passed and

(13:03):
she'd just gotten a clean bill of health, well, she
went back to the doctor with some pains or something
was diagnosed with another form of cancer that was very
fast spreading, and she passed away thirty two days after
my dad did. Just she didn't have the will to
live without him. They've been married for fifty eight years,
and you know, you're together that long, you've got so

(13:25):
much a part of the other. But the fascinating thing
to me about all that the day that she saw
her mother, it was one year to the day that
she passed away, one year to the That's creepy. So
I figure, if I ever see my grandmother, my mother,
I've got a year to get my shit together. Frightening

(13:49):
to think about. I would rather not know, I think,
But in a way, I mean, would you want to
know that you had a year left? What would you
do in a year? Yeah, that's that's like a long time.
But if they were looking at the end of everything,
that's a short amount of time.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
I mean maybe I would want to know at least
you have a year to you know what I mean,
like to sink good pie to everybody. And because I
didn't know my mom was going to go, it just happened,
you know. I wish I would have had a year
to hug her and say goodbye, and to ask so
many questions I want to ask now.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, those things say With my grandmother, the one I
just talked about, I was thirteen when she died, and
I wish I had another thirteen years to have spent
with her exactly. She was full of the lore, the folklore,
and the superstitions and things about luck, bad luck, good luck.
And I was afraid of her when I was little.

(14:43):
She you've talked about Yaga. She looked like a fairytale witch.
She was kind of little and been OVERSHD arthritis. Her
fingers were kind of gnarled. I thought she was a witch,
and then she claimed to me, so I was scared
of her, but I was real small. But after that
I kind of got over it and enjoyed being around her.

(15:04):
Where she used to scare the daylights out of me
when I was little, and she knew that she had
no way of knowing. She literally liked she could read
my mind. And that was a frightening thought when you're
seven or eight years old.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
That's incredible. I love it. I used to be scared too,
of like you know, the older ladies that look like
that and claimed to be going to be witches. And
I used to be scared. And then you kind of
get to start knowing, like you know, they're not they're
all bad. I mean, maybe some are, but not all are.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah. Well, these days she's what they call a granny
witch in the southern Apalachians, or a kitchen witch. I mean,
the same boldest crying on Saturday night, might have mashed
potatoes in it on the table Sunday morning, or she
just she used whatever she had available. And she was,
in her own terms, a good witch. She didn't cast

(15:57):
spells or anything like that that I know of. She
would make good luck arm she would tell fortunes. She
loved to read, just regular playing cards, but she had
added little symbols and pictures on them herself. And if
you have you ever seen the believe or not, this
what it's called a gypsy witch fortune telling deck that

(16:17):
which is kind of a letter bond deck, I think.
But she wouldn't touch tarot cards. She was afraid of
tarot cards. She said there was something evil about those.
But yet they used wigeboards and have seances and things.
So I don't know, but that always made me wary
of tarot cards. And you can't experience reading cards. I
don't think you do that anymore. But did you ever

(16:39):
see anything when you were doing that that scared you
or upset you or or is it more of affirmations
and type of things.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Like when I'm like getting my cards read or if
I reading and people are like, that's so on point,
that's scary, Like I can feel that it comes from me.
It doesn't come from the cards. It doesn't come from me.
It's coming from you know, the spirit guides. And that's
just at first it really really scared me. And then

(17:10):
I've been doing it for about five six years. But
I don't really read the taro. If I do read Taro,
I kind of read it from the book, just like oracle.
I do read the Oracle. But and growing up, Mama
was really against tarot Stay away from Taro it is evil.
And then after she passed when I was twenty nine. Well,
actually I didn't start actually reading until I was about forty.

(17:33):
But yeah, I was a big taboo like Taro was.
But now I do have I have a feeling with
Taro that I don't know. I just feel like maybe
I shouldn't do Taro. But I read Oracle and I
don't know, I really don't know. I kind of trust though,
whatever's with me, and that that's guiding me to give

(17:56):
these readings. So I just keep doing it. You know,
I know that I'm pop positive, I'm good, I'm positive,
and I just try to think about that.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
I've read before, and years and years ago, back in
the late days and early nineties, I read Tarrant cards.
But to me, I could I knew the answer, and
the cards just were the way I like to describe it,
It was a concrete object. The Tarrort cards were to
explain an abstract concept. I've had people walk into my

(18:27):
house before and I knew what they were going to
ask me, and I knew the answer and then it
would come up in the cards. And whereas if they
just walked in and I said okay, yeah, it's this,
this or this. They're like, yeah, okay, But when you
go through the cards and the cards say what you'd
already felt through.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Isn't it incredible?

Speaker 1 (18:44):
It is amazing. And even when I read the Oracle cards,
I would have people say it's so spot on it
to me, they were more, well, it depends on the deck,
but they were a lot more affirmative, you know, affirmations
for people. Yes, yes, I think there wasn't And Tarot
does kind of have a dark art to it, I think,
although I love the artwork on some of those decks.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
I have like eight decks of Tarot and I love them,
I don't know how to read them. I'm sure I
can learn. I just have a lot of anxiety and
add so for me, I haven't really you know, done Tarot.
I can I only read from like the book and
then I can and then I can go After I
do like a little reading, I can kind of go
with what I'm feeling, like what messages do I feel

(19:28):
like I'm getting So I'm kind of getting there.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
And a lot of it, I think is learning to
just trust your own intuition. Yeah, and you know what
you know, and then when the cards display that too.
Then that's a reaffirmation of your self and whatever abilities
you have. It's fascinating to think about. And I don't
know if it's something out there those cards, or if
it's my influence on the cards. It could go.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
I really think we do. I think we have these guys,
we have our spirit and they're telling us. Like I
always feel like I'm getting these epiphanies or something, but
I really think it's the guides saying, hey, why don't
you do a story on this? Or does things that
popp into my head And sometimes I guess it's just
it could be just ideas, but I really.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Do for the interesting thought that something from beyond a
realm is suggesting that these wonderful videos that you narrate
on YouTube, I hadn't even thought about that.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, I mean some like sometimes, you know, I'll just
see something on YouTube and I'll be like, Okay, I
want to know more about that. I want to know
more about like like I say, the Bellwitch, and so
because I didn't know about it until like last year,
and so I went and did all my own research
on the bell Witch and then I, you know, diet
a video on it and then sometimes, you know, I

(20:46):
don't know, it's just weird. I feel like these things
come to come to me for a reason, like so
that you know, I can do good on my channel.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
I do, you know, And I love that the whole
bell Witch legend. And I grew up in East Tennessee.
Adams is more Middle Tennessee down there in Nashville, but
I've been there. I've been to the bell Witch Cave.
I know Chris Kirby, the lady that does the tours
and owns the gift shop and the farm there, and
there's something there. I went years and years ago and

(21:18):
got a tour. Was my daughter and I were the
only ones there at the time, so we got, you know,
like a personal tour. And she talked about how her
husband had encountered something down there in the cave that
he wouldn't even go down there anymore, and he told her,
if you want to do your tours and sew your souvenirs,
go ahead, but count beat out and Cassie. When we
were there, there was we heard stuff back in the

(21:40):
cave and she had one of heard dogs with her
and the dog heard it. It kind of spooked the dog.
But the most fascinating thing. She had a couple of
photo albums, and I said, this was in the early
advent of digital cameras. I had a Kodak with me
at the time that I made like twelve there's something

(22:00):
dollars for it. It wasn't even a half of a megapixel.
But I got some photos in there, some stuff that
she said just wasn't there. There was one shot that
looked like a board or something coming up out of
the ground. There was nothing, no object like that down there.
We went back down and looked, and she had these
two photo albums. She may have more than this now,

(22:21):
some of those photos that she had taken and some
other people had taken and sent to her. And this
was old style, you know, regular film or polaroids. And
the most frightening one was taken just outside the cave.
Her daughter and her daughter's friend when her daughter was small,
were sitting there like with her arms around each other,

(22:41):
best friends, and around her daughter's neck. There was a snake.
It looked like almost like a boa constrictor or something.
And she said, my daughter is scared to death of snakes.
There's no way she would have sat there with any
kind snake around her neck with her arm around her
friend smiling in the picture. Yet there in the picture
was a snake. So it's a strange place. There's a

(23:04):
lot of weird energy still there.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
That's the incredible thing too, is how are we able
to capture certain things and photographs?

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, just astounding, mind boggling. And then, like I said,
growing up in that area, even though I was east
of there but a good distance, we still heard a
lot about that. Growing up, there was books about the
bell Witch. And when I was in school, elementary school,

(23:36):
there was a game similar to Bloody Mary, but it
was the bell Witch game at a party I was
at one time, little mixer boy girl birthday party. You know,
we were like in third or fourth grade. They wanted
to play that, and the way to play it you
had to go into a dark bathroom and shut the door,
similar to Bloody Mary here, and then you look into

(23:58):
the dark mirror and you, I don't believe in the
bell which three times, and she supposedly would come out
of the mirror and scratch you. And sure enough, one
of the little girls went in there and did it,
and she came out and she had scratches on her face. Now,
as an adult. I suspect she did it herself, but
who knows. You never knows, but it's similar to Bloody Mary.

(24:20):
And then there was a legend about the book about
our family problem. I think was the name I was
written by one of the Bell family. You couldn't check
it out of the big library in downtown Knoxville. They
camp it in a special collection where you could just
look at it there. And the story that we were

(24:42):
told was that it was because somebody had checked it
out and it stayed out, it was long overdue. And
then when it finally came back, the guy had been
reading it in bed at night and it had some
medical emergency happen and died in his bed and the
book was there with him.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
So that was the story that after that you could
only read it in the library. But again that's childhood
playground stuff. Who knows, but always fascinated with that legend.
And if you're ever down that way, go go see
the bell Witch Cave. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh someday, I definitely want to. That's one of my
life that's my favorite haunting. That's the favorite realist haunting
is the Bell Witch.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
Now you mentioned going to San Jose. Have you ever
been to the Winchester Mystery House.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
No, I have. Oh, well I have been there, but
I've never went inside. I don't know why. Like my
stepmom and my stepsister actually worked there for years. Yeah,
and they have many stories.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
That would love to hear some of their stories. You
could probably write a book based on their stories.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah. I still haven't kind of gotten all her stories,
but she's like, I am full of stories from that place.
But I got to go outside of it when I
was younger, and my dad took pictures of me and
my sister and brother. Why he didn't take us through it,
I don't know. Maybe we were scared because we were
like I think it was a tent.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
I've been through it now. I don't know. Somebody just
may not be correct information. But somebody told me they're
doing overnight stays. Any know that you can do a
dark ghost hunt in there at night. I'd love to
do that. I've done the day, like you would love
to do that me too.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
I know my dad was walking through because he he
went through a lot of tours in there, and he
said he was taking pictures because he likes to He
loves taking pictures and he stepped on someone. So he
went to turn around and say, excuse me, you know,
I'm sorry, and there was no one there, and he's
like I was, I was freaked out. I get that.

(26:42):
And my dad he loves he loves like anything scary
ghost stories and so.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yes, it sounds like you come by your love of
it honestly, then it's yes, had to pass down to
you and me. I got it from my mom's side,
my dad. They had their tales and stuff that they told,
but they weren't into it like my mom's family. They
didn't do the seances and all that.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
But I felt there.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, he ended up being a scientist at an Okoreadge
National Laboratory. So and I said this on the Belief
Whole podcast that I was the unlikely perfect storm of
science and superstition sprang forth bewildered. And that's true, you know,
the superstition side, my mom's side of the family and
my dad. Now, they all weren't farmers over on the

(27:30):
Cumberland Plaza and Middle Tennessee. But he got out of
all that and went to University Tennessee Knoxville and became
you know, educated and became a scientist. He was the
only one of his family that pursued that sort of thing.
But yeah, I was I was born out of that.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
That's neat, you know, I got to be smart.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
But even as a scientist, though, he talked about they
were just things that you couldn't explain, uh, you know,
particularly with a supernational paranormal. But he said even under
laboratory conditions, they would have anomalous results. Sometimes, he said,
there was stuff that happened in the lab under control
conditions that wasn't supposed to happen. They witnessed it happened,

(28:10):
and they couldn't get it to happen again. And he said,
there's just some things that there's no explanation for. There.
There are nomalous results in everything in nature and in
the supernatural.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Are you Are you the kind of person that has
to have that proof or are you? That's my thing
is sometimes I just want to prove.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, I'd love to have proof, but I think there
aren't any answers. I started out when I was a
child looking for answers, but the longer I like I said,
I started when I was around four or five having
these experiences. So, you know, it's been fifty something years now,
and I find that the older I get, the less
answers there are, and the more questions I have. So

(28:58):
I gave up looking for the answers. I'm on looking
for the next set of questions.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Me too, Me too. You're right, because there's there is
no answers to a lot of a lot of these things.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
And I'm a believer. I'm an experiencer. I've seen all
kinds of things that I can't explain, that there is
no rational explanation for. And there were times when there
was somebody with me that experienced it too. So it wasn't,
you know, something my imagination or hallucination or anything like that.
It was something that happened that was inexplicable. So I believe.

(29:33):
I believe there's something out there. Either I don't want to.
I don't. It's that's that's where I get into trying
to define it. It gives me consternation. Is it another realm?
Is it something you know through the veil just on
the other side. And sometimes I had a lady describe
it to me once. It's I think of two pieces

(29:55):
of silk and they come together sometimes where you can
see what's printed on both pieces, and then they part
and you can only see one again. That's probably an
apropos explanation, but I think there's an alternate timeline or
an alternate universe or something out there besides what we

(30:15):
have here, and we get little glimpses of it sometimes,
usually when you least expect it. My most astounding experiences
that have been when I was just doing something mundane
and it just happened. And then I'll go to some
place that's haunted or where they've seen encryptids or Bigfoot
or whatever and a big nothing burger. But yeah, to

(30:36):
expect that.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
I think since I was young, probably about eleven, we
lived out on for Service property out in the forest
and this for Service compound and surrounded by like tons
and tons and tons of woods, and we had on neighbors.
But I could still feel like when we go out

(30:58):
out hiking a little bit with Dad, because we were
on home studies at that time, you could just feel
something out there in the woods like I could even
I just felt like there was I felt like there
was portals, some kind of portals. I really did, even
at ten years old. You can just feel something out
in those woods. And I know that I probably sound crazy,

(31:21):
but have you ever experienced anything weird like that?

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh? Yeah, I just I grew up just outside of
the Great Smoky Mountains. It was about an hour away
by car. So once I was all enough to drive,
I went into the Smoky's a lot. I camped and
hiked up there. And there's places in the woods that
just they have a certain feel to them. And I've
had people say that, you know, there's there's not anything

(31:47):
in the woods, or there's not anything strange in the woods,
and I think you just either haven't had the right experience,
or you ignored it, or you're not open to it.
But there's all kinds of things out there. And that's
some of my most jarring experiences were in deep woods.
That's the other thing, you know, I did one on
hiking path or going up to Cleveland's Double I like

(32:11):
off trail stuff, and that's where the starring of stuff
has happened to me, although it can happen anywhere, I think,
But there is there's something out there. I don't know
if it's portals or some kind of entities or the
little people. I mean, there's so many different things that
from a paranormal sense makes sense.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
I can even feel it. Like I said, I was
a little kid like eleven, and he was really My
dad was really good about knowing these these woods. So
we would play you know, Cowboys and Indians with him,
and as far as he would take us and deep
into these woods, he could just get this airy feeling
in certain areas. I could feel it, and it's just crazy,

(32:51):
and I believed it since I was little, Like there's
something out there, yeah, And.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
The most disturbing thing to me is to be in
the woods and everything go absolutely quiet still, like you
hit the mute button. You can't hear the wind, you
can't hear the birds, or the water, or traffic in
as far a distance or anything. But that's usually a
hint to me that I need to get out of
where I am, turn around and go another way, or
go somewhere else, because that, to me, when that's happened

(33:18):
to me, it's always been a precursor to something weird happening,
And instead of going forward, I'll around and go the
other way because I might not want to experience what's
out there.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, Like we always say, I'm like Dad, come on,
let's let's go back, let's go back closer to home.
But you can just feel it. And I'm so intrigued
by that kind of stuff. So many people probably don't
believe or or haven't thought about it, haven't experienced it.
But once you experience something, I think maybe, like you said,

(33:49):
more open, Yeah, And.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
I think a skeptic is somebody that just hasn't had
the right experience. Yet. I know there's stuff out there.
I know what I've welt, I know what I've seen,
I know what I've experienced, and nobody could ever convince
me that I didn't experience those things. But yet there's
no explanation for them exactly.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
And I too, I don't know if I'm this EmPATH.
I think it might just be really impath. I can really,
but I used to see the spirits. As I got older,
I could feel I could start feeling like something's not right,
something's can we move into certain places and a lot
of dreaming, a lot of crazy dreams. Definitely. I don't

(34:35):
know if that's part of you know abilities, but.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
I think it is. And I talked about that when
I was on the Belief Hole. From my interview over there,
I believe we dream travel I think there's an alternate
reacitl or alternate reality rather or a dream place that
we travel to, because I dream sometimes at the same place,
but time will have passed there since my last is
it there. But there are things that I recognize in

(35:03):
places that I've been before, where I know that I've
never been in real life. I don't know what that's about.
It if it's just you know, the brain having a
big time when I'm in rimsleep. But that's another thing.
I don't go through stages of sleep. I'm dreaming a
lot of times before I'm even asleep. It's like I'm
watching television or something. But I go directly into rim sleep,

(35:25):
and I do. I've had some wild dreams that seem
to go on for hours or sometimes days, and you know,
then you wake up and you've only been asleep a
short amount of time. Yes, there's some kind of time
element there too, or it stretches or lengthens or it
does something. But there's a whole world out there in dreams,

(35:46):
and I think there are dreams that are more than
just dreams. Like I said, travel or or something.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
I know when I one time I fell in our
bathroom and we had this like metal trash can. I
fell on it, and of course it knocked me out
and it felt like I was under forever. And then
my mom, you know, woke me up, Wake up, wake up.
But it's so different how the time is different from
when you're under.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
And when you're you know, when I was a teenager,
I knocked myself out skateboarding one time, and when I
came to, I thought I'd been out for hours and
it had been like maybe five minutes. But there's there
was just no no time, no sense of time.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
With that experience, of course, I kind of feel like
that's how the other like how what uh maybe you know,
spirits are the time is different. Time is so different
there than than we experience it, which we already kind
of knew about that, but it's definitely.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Crazy time in the supernatural realm, it passes a lot differently,
if at all. I mean yah working out for some
of these spirits that date back. The oldest one I've
heard of were in a basement in England where the
guy saw Roman soldiers marching through his basement. And I

(37:07):
did a little research and found out that the level
of the basement at one time was the road to
the Roman Way. But again, what the foundation stones of
that house was at stone tape or was he seeing
actual apparitions? But I don't hear. In New England, my
wife Nicole knows a person that has a boy he

(37:28):
saw ghosts of Revolutionary War soldiers in the trees behind
his house, you know. So and particularly things to do
with war, and in particularly the Civil War. I don't
think there's a single Civil War, not a battleground or
smaller places where there was maybe a little skirmish but
some bloodshed. Those places are all affected, and I think

(37:50):
there was just such an energy there is the first
time that Americans had fought Americans on American soil. Yeah,
and you know, some of those battles were just horrendous,
and I think that this lost some life of a
sudden and tragic loss like that. There are people that
are left behind when that happens. They don't realize they're dead.

(38:11):
It sounds kind of cliche, but I think some of
the dead don't know they're dead.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
That's why I think too, and that's why you know,
you get the hauntings in the certain areas. My mom
was living in Montana and she was walking through the
ghost town. I guess they call it a ghost town
because you know, nobody lives in there anymore. And she
had she was taking pictures of the grand kids in

(38:39):
front of all the houses with the windows, and then
I'll have to find it. But there's a picture that
I zoomed in and you can see like a woman
from a different era with the hat the clothes, and
I'm like, well, that's me, mommy. There's people dressed up
in there. And she's like, no, no, there's not. But yeah,

(39:03):
she caught in her picture in the window like a
woman with a big old dress and a hat. I'll
have to look for it. It's just incredible, sonyat how
you can catch that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yeah, my brother, he's passed away now, but he had
a picture outside one of those old cabins there in
the cage's covet the smoke. He's where he was standing
next to an old chimney, but with his back against
the almost against the cabin. And then when the picture
they hadn't have him developed, but in the picture there's
a man standing behind him a lot taller than he is,

(39:42):
a couple of feet taller. Now, my brother, wasn't that tall.
He was about five three five four. I think he
was shorter than I am, but this guy had to
be over six feet tall. And he's right behind my brother.
I mean, you can clearly see him, but he's like,
there's no way there was somebody standing behind me. Number
one I would have noticed, and number two, his wife
took the picture. She would have noticed there was nobody

(40:03):
there when the picture, yet there was somebody behind him.
I don't understand things like that other than it is
something supernatural.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Definitely, definitely, yeah, like they're they're they're there, like they're
they're they're still there and they're coming through and I
don't know why. Sometimes we can't see them, but we can,
you know, we just catch with capture them and the
pictures or all of it. It's just it's it's neat.

(40:36):
And I know that I have my mom's old radio
and it, uh, it turns off and on by itself.
Not I'm not sure if that is supernatural, but I.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Feel like it is like it is. I've had stuff
like that happen where maybe something that wasn't plugged in
or didn't even have any batteries in it, if it
was battery operated, would come on and then turn off,
and there was no way that it even possible from
electricity electronics standpoint, but I've experienced that myself.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
The crazy thing is the reason I really do also
think that it was it was paranormal, is because it
like stopped and it was it was doing like a
you know, the record players used to stop and they
would like say the same thing over and over. I
think it was the record players. Well, her radio stopped
and it was saying Sue, Sue, Sue, Sue, and that's

(41:34):
her name, that's what she went by. It was Sue.
And I was like, me and my sister were screaming.
It was so incredible. I wasn't scared, but it kind
of scared me at first. They were saying Sue, Sue, Sue.
This is like I think a couple of days, you know,
like maybe a week after she was gone, maybe she
wanted us to know.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
I think she wanted you to know. I think that
was a message from beyond, just letting you know that
she's still around, or she hasn't left, or but yet
it's frightening. I mean, there's a tradition in the South
when somebody dies, they cover the mirrors and that's my

(42:15):
grandmother would say, you know that that so the spirit
doesn't see itself and get trapped in the mirror. And
she'd say, nobody wants to be haunted by even somebody
they knew and loved that they want them to move
on and go on. But I think sometimes they do
pay visits or and it's not always a visual thing.

(42:35):
I've heard things of certain smells, like heard coins rolling
across the floor of marbles that sound when there was
nothing there. I've smelled fantom smells and things before I'm
smell and she's a big smoker by tobacco and cigar
smoke and things like that in a building where there

(42:57):
was no nobody smoking anything, including me. I've had people
say that, you know, well, that's you're having a factory
hallucinations or you've got a brain tumor or something. But
you know, it's something that happened years and years ago.
And I've experienced it at other times beyond that, But
it's not something I do all the time. Yeah, and

(43:20):
it's not. And I used to think that every house
that I'd ever lived in was haunted to degree, but
in the last few years, I think it's me that's haunted.
I don't think because I go to a place where
maybe people have lived there all their life and never
experienced anything. I could be there and feel things.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Or see things, or you can get your abilities.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
And I think it's because whatever it is, the spirit
world or whatever, those that I'm open to it, and
that they I've heard it described as like a moth
to a candle. You know that they see that candle
in the darkness as me, and they come toward it.
I lived in a very active, haunted house in Las Vegas,

(44:03):
and the roommate I had that lived there for years,
never experienced anything. I move in and the place goes nuts. Exactly.
It's I think it's me. I'm haunted, but that's okay.
I love it. Used to scare me, yeah, it does
scared me too, still does sometimes, but it's it's the

(44:23):
grateful dead signing. What a long, staring trip it's been.
But I wouldn't want it any other way. I think
the whole journey would have been much more mundane and
boring without the occurasion of the supernatural.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
I think once you get used to it and you
know that nothing's you know there too to hurt you.
Or you know, or scare you. You kind of start
getting more like okay, I can handle this. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I feel like I kind of pushed anything away when
my mom passed, like I don't want I don't I

(44:58):
don't want to know see anything. I don't want to anything.
I'm scared. But I think like ten years after she
was gone, I was like, okay, you know I can
do this. I'm ready. Yeah, now I'm fine, But back
then it was a scaredy cat.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
And I think that if there is a way for
especially close family like that loved ones to reach back
and let you know they're okay, that they're thinking about you,
or that they know you're thinking about them, I think
that's what that is. Sometimes.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Definitely, I know I still get every once in a while,
I'll be sleeping and I'll wake up to my toes
and feet being tickled. I am, now, it's this. I
believe it's Mom, because that's what she used to do
when I was alive, and I used to scream at
the kids because you know, I wake up and I
think it was them, and then I learned it it wasn't.
But I'm really thinking for some reason, she's still tickling

(45:49):
my feet.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah. Now, I've never seen my mom or dad, but
I dream about them often, particularly my dad and my brother.
I dream about my brother and in my dreams he
didn't actually die, but like he went off the grid
or underground or whatever, and he's still alive. And then,
you know, I'll wake up and realize, well, that's not
the truth, but it's it's interesting nonetheless, just that you

(46:15):
have those feelings and have things happen. I've heard of
people finding feathers or finding coins, and they say that
that's one way that you can get a message from
me on and I've had that happen. I've lived in
a place before that that an entirely fenced yard. The
gate was locked, and yet I'd walk outside and there
on the sidewalk right in front of the house would

(46:37):
be a coin. Or I'm walking before and have a
feather fall out of nowhere, out of a clear sky
and land either in front of me or even on me.
Now that might be a little more easily explained. Birds fly,
they lose fight.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah, yeah, I used to find stacks of pennies go
lore after my past. I don't know if it was
maybe the kids packed stacking the pen. Everywhere. I would
find stacks of pennies just everywhere outside the house, inside
the house. I would always in that time frame think, well,
that's momark.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Again, food for thought, something to think about, something to ponder.
Up until recently, I was a chronic and lifelong insomnia.
I can only sleep two or three hours at a time.
And I've had people say, well, that's the reason you
experienced some of these things. That's sleep deformation. But again,
all my life I've been sleep deprived, so I don't

(47:35):
think it's that. But that's the kind of things I
used to think about what I couldn't sleep. I'd play
there and just ponder the impatible if you will, and
think what if? And that's a fun game to play
the middle of the night.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yeah, I know most of my things happen when I'm
almost asleep. When I'm almost into that sleep and I'm
not quite asleep, things happen like I'm so close to
I don't know what it is, like I can hear
like my mama or something. I'm not quite asleep, but
I'm not awake, so like between the two, you know, worlds,

(48:10):
you're so close to maybe the bell I don't know,
but a lot of it happens when I'm like almost asleep.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
That's me just in that twilight stage of not quite
asleep but not awake, and like I said, I go
right into rim sleep. I'm usually dreaming, but that's when
things happen. That's I've had of dreams, premonition type dreams
and things go with in that state. And I think
just your body is starting to relax and your mind

(48:38):
is sweet. Your brain is switching gears, and it makes
you more open to those type of experiences. And I
think there's people that you know, canlucid dream and things,
and that's what they do. They learn to control that
part of their brain to where they can do that
all the time. I've had some lucid dreams, but I
don't dream that way all the time, just in a

(48:59):
small the time where you can control your dreams or
flying dreams and things like that. I mean, I love
those kind of dreams, but yeah, I have some frightening
ones too, and I even like those. It's like you know,
free horror movie or whatever. You wake up and like,
oh thank god, it was a dream.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
When I was younger, I would I would be like
trying to wake myself. I was sleeping, and you know
how you're sleeping sometimes when you're having these really bad nightmares.
And I don't know if anybody else does this, but
I was trying to wake myself. Well, I wake up.
It was it was so scarier.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I've had sleep proalysis like that too, where things were
going on, and I knew I was aware of these
things happening, but I couldn't wake up. I couldn't move,
I couldn't cry out, and Cassie, I experienced that from
early childhood. The first time I can remember, I was
about two or three years old. Gosh, my brother still
lived with us, and he got married and moved out

(49:55):
when I was three. My nephew was born when I
was born, it was prior to that, and that was
what I I thought at first that my brother had
come into the room and was holding the covers over me,
and I couldn't move or get up, And then when
that process finally broke, I went tearing down the hall.
He was standing in the bathroom shaving, so it wasn't him.
Nobody had been in my room, and I was just

(50:17):
it didn't really scare me as much as like you
know what was that? You know, what the hell? Even
as a kid, it's like, that's not supposed to happen.
Even with my paranormal experience, the first full body apparition ever,
thought it didn't scare me. It just made me curious
and more or less, that's what started me on my
lifelong look into the supernatural.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
That's neat. I've only experienced it one time. Let's see,
Diana is my oldest. He was four months old, and yeah,
waking up in the morning, I can look around, I
couldn't move and like the I was like almost choking

(51:01):
on my saliva, kept swallowing and having a hard time swallowing.
I thought I was going to drowned in my own saliva,
and I could not move for I don't know how long.
It was the scariest thing ever.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Yeah, I haven't had an episode of it in years,
but it's very frightening, and I've had it occur all
kinds of different places. Once when I was in college.
It was in the wintertime in an older building and
I sat next to the radiator and I had a
meteorology class, and the professor I had had a very
deep monotone voice, and I was listening to him drone

(51:37):
on and on about cloud formations.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
And I fell asleep in the back of this classroom,
next to the radiator and had sleep paralysis. Oh my gosh.
And I couldn't wake up. I couldn't move. I could
hear the professor, but I couldn't couldn't do anything. It's
like I was just frozen and finally napped out of it.
And apparently no bod he noticed. It seemed like I've

(52:01):
been out of including the little table I was sitting there.
There was a guy sitting right next to me. He
didn't seem to be paying any attention. But I mean,
I've done it before where I've cried out in my sleep.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
I just wonder what causes it.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Heard everything from visitations to alien of some sort of
adduction or pre abduction, or some people equate it with
missing time. And I have felt a presence when I've
had that. I've never seen anything when I have sleep prousis,
but I can feel like something's in the room with me.
And sometimes there would be a tone, like almost a

(52:40):
musical tone. Wow, it gets louder and louder and louder,
and I'm thinking in the process I'm going to see
how long I can stand this. And then it gets
to a point where it's so loud it feels like
my hand's going to explode. And then I start trying
to wake myself up, and I can usually do it.
It takes a while sometimes, but again, it's been years

(53:01):
since I've had any of that. Certainly haven't had any
since I've been married and almost six months now, and
that's carried a lot of my insomnia now too, I've
been sleep in six, seven, even eight hours some nights,
and that's much. Even as a kid, my parents would
go to bed, I would stay up and watch Johnny
Carson and The Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder, and a

(53:26):
lot of times watch the TV sign off here back
in the day they used to play the national anthem
and then and then they would just go to static
or snow and then I would shut that off and
I would read a book or something. Finally fall asleep
about two or three hours before time to get up.
Get up, have a cup of coffee, go to school,

(53:47):
and yeah, I drink I started drinking coffee when I
was a baby. I would want coffee in the bottle
with my milk and nowadays they teach you that it's yeah,
that means not good for babies. But I think it
was me and my daughter was the same way. She
would want. She'd first start out when she's big enough
to walk, you couldn't leave a coffee cups and started

(54:09):
drinking out of it, and then she started asking for
it and she's still on the bottle. And when she
was going to kindergarten first grade, she would have to
have a cup of coffee in the morning before she left.
She would be a bear. You know, I said, day
I get it. I'm the same way. I've got to
have coffee first thing. Sont you're in New England, they

(54:30):
drink iced coffee here around them. I'm kind of getting
used to that. But when I get up in the morning,
is the first thing I want is a good hot
cup of coffee. By day going and used to be
a cigarette was the other thing, but I quit smoking
about a year ago, and now caffeine is my big advice.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
I can't have caffeine, so I try to do different things.
You know, it sucks, it's hard. I love my.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Coffee, yeah, and there's always decaf or green teas something
like that. But I don't know. To me, I just
I love my caffeine always. Well, I hope i'd never
get to the point that I can't enjoy coffee. And
I have anxiety and stuff too, years and years ago started.
I think in my thirties. I was diagnosed with generalized

(55:15):
anxiety and had some panic attacks and things. And I'm
supposed to lay off caffeine. But if I didn't have
my caffeine, I'd have the world's worst headache. If I
don't have a coffee in the morning, when I get
up by lunchtime, I've got a splitting headache.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
I have no energy of that coffee. So I try
to do like proachin, you know, poffeine drinks.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
And I'm not really caffeine sensitive. I'm sitting here drinking
a cup right now and it's nine o'clock on the
East Coast.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Some people can, some people can drink that coffee.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
And still I'm always sensitive and the fact if I
don't get it, but if I can drink a pot
of coffee, go right to sleep. When I do sleep, wow,
never slept much. And you know, it's been a pain sometimes,
but it's afforded me. Basically, I've been able to live
two lifetimes in one when I worked regular jobs and things.

(56:09):
I always worked two full time jobs and then had
hobbies and sidelines and stuff, and I lived in Las
Vegas for those ten years. I worked two full time
jobs and had a photography studio. I had two half
days off and the rest of the time I was
either working two shifts and anewing my photography studio in

(56:33):
the off hours and just be a lot of experiences.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
I used to do photography too. I haven't done it
in a couple like five years, but I used to
love photography. That would be neat a few and Nicole
could get out there and take pictures.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
You know, that's something we planned to do. We've got cameras,
digital cameras. I got her a drone. She had an
interest in getting her little FAA license that you get
seeking pilot. Those drums shoot a lot of our own
stock footage. But I was raised around photography. That was
one of my dad's hobbies. He had his own dark

(57:13):
room and things at home, so I grew up around it.
I still somewhere. I think my sister in law has it.
The first picture I ever took, which was one of
the mules A black and white study of two mules
in the barn at my dad's mother's the farm that
he grew up on when I was about three or
four years old. So I honestly and just found out

(57:38):
I had a predilection for it, a kind of a
knack for it. And I worked in print and fashion
and catalog and back then did a lot of website work.
But Las Vegas was a good place to have a
photography studio because every cocktail waitress or the blackjack dealer

(57:58):
was just waiting to be discovered, make their break, you know,
as a model or an actress or something, and they
get a new outfit or a new hairstyle, they'd want
to update their portfolio. And I was the guy to
go to. And part of that was because I worked.
I managed the photography lab in one of the big casinos,
in house photography lab, so I got to print my

(58:19):
own stuff for free. So I was only a photographer
in town that in addition to your sitting fee, you
got free eight by ten prints too, So I kind
of have definitely haven't done that in a lot of years,
but I enjoyed it that I helped some people. There
was one girl that I helped put her portfolio together.

(58:40):
She went on to sign with a Ford modeling agency
in New York that's prestigious. She fell in love with
some guy and got pregnant and left her modeling career
behind best like plans to buy some men. But yeah,
but yeah, that's there's some places here in New England
that we want to visit. Spooky places in Connecticut. I

(59:01):
think that's the most haunted states in New England, if
not maybe the entire country. I know the Warrens found
a lot of stuff there. They apparently don't have the
credibility they once used to have mentioned the Warrens and
someone was like that, you don't want to be associated
with that. But they were wrong some things, and they
I think, uh, embellished things to some degree, but exactly

(59:24):
out there, and there's a lot of stuff here and
springtime gets here where there's some cemeteries I want to visit.
There's a haunted cemetery in Massachusetts. I want to go
to called Spider Gates, and I want to get that
drone out and see what we can we can find.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
That's going to be exciting. Yeah, yeah, it's got there.
In practice with the drone and I watch what is
that called? This guy is, oh, you probably know this
big channel where he goes to like the Great or

(01:00:00):
whatever and talks about how they were like murdered cases bass.
I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but it sounds
like something I definitely watch.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
But he takes the drone and does the drone footage
into the intro and then it comes down on him
and he's talking about like the person, he's talking about
their grave and you know, their story, you know, how
they were, how they were murdered or whatever basis of
the unknown or something.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
I'll check that out if I can find it. That
sounds interesting you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Probably you probably already know and watch it. I can't
think of it right now, but yeah, anyways, it's the
drone thing though. It's really neat that what he does
with it, and you know, takes it around the cemetery
and around.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
I don't watch YouTube as much as i'd like to
because running my channels is that's a full time job,
and especially among them missing I've got over one hundred
and two thousand subscribers. Now, it takes a lot of work,
but what I can you take it really is the
last thing I want to do sometime is look at YouTube.
But that's true. I read somewhere not too long. I

(01:01:08):
think there's like one hundred and twelve million channels out there,
so that's that's a lot of content, some of it
better than others. But there's some fascinating stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Out there there, really is. I know. I'm just kind
of doodling around on there sometimes, just kind of trying
to think of, like if there's something that I don't
know and I want to learn about so I can
teach my viewers, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah, I've found that a lot of times, just something simple,
you know what they call live acts or life hacks
rather or ome repairs or basically anything you want to
know how to do. Somebody's made a video on how
to do it exactly, and I'll watch those sometimes instead
of reading the instruction manual.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
For stuff, IO do two, I do two. I have
to watch it so I can learn more. That's how
I learned to can't just like read it. I have
to actually watch somebody doing it or do my you know,
and then do myself of course.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
But yeah, but it's a lot of fun. I wouldn't
want it any other way I've been. I've had those
partners in another channel that I grew to over a
quarter million, but that didn't end so well. So now
I'm doing my own thing, and I've always here. Took
right at three years to build it up to that,

(01:02:23):
and then I struck out on my own when that
fell through, and then I've done what I'm able to
do now over one hundred thousand and about nine months.
So I'm doing something right. People. I don't know the
content or my voice or something. I get a lot
of compliments on my voice. I don't like the way
I sound. I never had, but any of us.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Like the way we sound. But people love it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
People love people. I listen to you to go to sleep.
I have fibromialgia, I have PTSD, I have anxiety. Your
voice calms me, and I think, you know what I
If it helps you, then then God bless you. I'm
happy to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Do it, but makes you feel really good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Yeah, And I enjoy writing too. That's my first love. Really.
That was how I got into narrating. I'd written my
first book, Strange Things in the Woods, and I'd gotten
kind of over into the narration stuff and thought i'd
like to do that, but what would I narrate? And
I thought, well, I've got those book of stories here,
So I started narrating some of my books and just

(01:03:21):
kind of went from there. And then twenty twenty three,
I just published my twentieth book. One of those I
co wrote with Cisco, but the other nineteen, and I've
got at least that many more. I mean, sometimes it's
just finding the time to sit down and work on
it with all the other stuff. But I like to
work on several projects at a time. Currently I'm writing

(01:03:44):
about six books, and that way I don't get any
writer's block. If I get stuck somewhere, I just jump
over to the other one and figure, yeah, I multitask
like that. So it's a lot of fun about you.
You've got any books planned? You're stories from your family,
they're Winchester House. I think that would make an excellent book.

(01:04:04):
You just interviewed them and write.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
I might try to do that stepmom and all her
and my stepsister about all the mystery Winchester House. I
like to do something about all my stuff that I
went through growing up too. But I've seen, like you know,
the dreams the Poltugeist huntings fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
I love those type of books. That's what my book,
My Strange World is, that's autobiographical just a few of
my personal paranormal experiences. The way that came about. I
had the first book, Strange Things in the Woods, which
is stories from family and friends and friends of family
and things like that, and once that became a best seller,
I'd get invited to a radio or TV show or something,

(01:04:50):
and especially if it was a call in show, people
would say, well, these are other people's stories. Have you
ever experienceding things strange? And I tell one story or another,
and one day I just thought, you know, probably got
enough stuff to fill a book. And that's the way
that one came about. And I could do two or
three more volumes of that now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
So that's one of the things I love about you,
because i've seen you, I've known you on YouTube for
a couple of years, that you are full of stories.
You can tell so many stories, and I love because
you know, we all just love to sit and listen
your stories. I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Well, thank you, I appreciate that. And that's I'm a
rack on tour. I'm a storyteller. That's what I did.
I love to do it in the written word, but
then I found out I was able to do it
in the spoken word too, And again, I've never liked
the way I sounded, but if people like it, rock
on and they liked me here on the Clyd Lewis
Radio Network Ground zero Radio Network, so I must be

(01:05:49):
doing something right. And Nicole, that's that's how we met.
She'd been listening to me for several years and kind
of reached out and we're working on a book together
and just kind of went from there. And here I
am almost married six months and a lot of stuff
going on here, and it's happen. Yeah, really really excited

(01:06:11):
about everything. I've never been happier. So there you go.
It can happen anytime anywhere exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
I love that. That's awesome. You're going to have more
stories to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Tell, yeah, absolutely. And I'm never really ventured that much
into New England, so I'm really looking forward to go
in places here and you know, boots on the ground
and checking things. I'm going to go to Salem, Massachusetts
for Halloway. Never been there. There's a walking ghost tour
in Boston, there's another in Rhode Island, and there's a

(01:06:45):
cemetery there where HB. Lovecraft is buried, and that's where
I proposed to Nicole out where Edgar Allan Poe proposed
to his wife was in that cemetery. And so there's
there's all kinds of connections and subtemes and things there.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
So you can write a book.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Yeah, there'll be one in and I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
It'll be awesome. I can't wait. I can't wait. I inspiration.
I hope that I can do do a lot of
these things like you do, very inspiring if you can.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Find the time. The hardest thing to me writing is
just find the time to sit down and do it,
literally but in seat and write. And I've got so
many things that I've outlined. I've got movie scripts that
I'm working on, I've got all kinds of other books
and things, and just finding the time to do it
and then getting that disciplined back when a lot of

(01:07:42):
these are you know, I had a certain time of day,
this is my writing time. Sit down and write and
write and write, and the time gets away from it. Okay,
I'm going to write for an hour, look up, and
maybe three hours it's passed.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
You.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
I get lost in those worlds I'm working on a
novel too, So I've done short stories and things of fiction,
and this is the first real attempt at long form
and I think it's a good story. So we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
I wonder how long it takes to write a novel,
how much It kind of depends too, though, Yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Depends on what you're writing about and how good and
how fast of a writer you are, I suppose. But
you know they have I didn't participate in it, but
they have a Nano Remo National Novel Writing Months, which
is remember, and that's the challenge. You try to start
the purchase September. By the end of September, you've written

(01:08:33):
a novel, and they have competitions, and you have so
many words a day in that you have to write things.
I think the goal is like thirty thousand words. That's more,
I think, But I've written that much in a weekend before,
so it's possible.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
I spee. Sometimes I can sit down and write. Sometimes
I'm blocked. I feel like I have that add So
how do you get past any of that?

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
Well, again, that's where to me, that's where multiple projects coming.
I've always got something I can work on. That's true.
I like having that. I don't like just putting all
my energy into one thing and then getting stuck and
having to do additional research or rewrite. I don't like
rewriting either. I try to rewrite as I go, so

(01:09:25):
by the time I'm done, it just needs to send
it over to the editor. And that's a luxury too,
going with a traditional publisher. I've got an editor, I've
got a publicist. I've got an agent, I've got a
book designer. I've got a cover artist. You know, all
those things help you do it all yourself. It's it's
a lot more work, but I would encourage you to

(01:09:48):
pursue it. I encourage Cisco. She's got a She had
a book, a good one that we did together. It
was mainly her writing. I had a book, Yes, Where
All Children in the Wilderness of the Afterlife, A guided
tour through Haunted life. Took me two years to say
that without dripping over. But I was kind of color commentary.

(01:10:10):
I just went along behind her and talked about what
she said. But it's a good.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Book, and it's really good.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
A couple other people that I've encouraged, Terry Brown, I
don't know if you know him, Tales of the Voyage.
He's working on a book. My courage and I are
doing one together, So I'm excited about that. Stick with it.
It's the more you do it, the easier it gets.
And if I can do it, anybody can do it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
I especially love the marrying. I love putting together. I
just put it together like a you know, the script,
and then and I started, you know, narrating, and oh,
it's just so fun to be all together.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
It's so fun, it is. And you've asked me to
be a part of a project you're working on. You're
recreating an audio version of Dracula. I don't know. That
seems like a lot of work. I wouldn't want to
be producing that myself, but you've asked me to do
the part of Van Helsing. I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Yeah, Biker and he's going to be part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Yeah, I've had him on this show. He's a great
guy too.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
Sorry, it's me a big project, but you know it's
it's a lot of work, and I think it's going
to be awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Yeah, I think so too. And and you've got a voice.
People like to listen to you. LEGI over first before
always talks about how he said that you are the
like the female Steve Stock and he likes to listen
to me, and he likes to listen to you, and
I hope he meant that as a compliment, But I
enjoyed listening to You've got a pleasant voice, and thank you.

(01:11:48):
I can't can't say enough good things about your your
channel and what you've got going on over there. I've
talked a lot about me more than I've talked about you. Here.
Tell us more about what you've got going on, or
just pick something to talk about, or tell us a
story one of your favorites. I know you mentioned Bobby
Yaga and that. What other stories do you like? What

(01:12:11):
fascinates you? What some more of the more of those
paranormal experiences. I love those.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
I love Bloody Mary, I love you know. I love
our urban legends. I absolutely love urban legends. I haven't
been kind of doing them lately. People didn't really seem
to be well. I can't say that they all haven't
done good because the Bloody Mary one has like sixteen
hundred views. People loved it. I cover Bloody Mary, which

(01:12:38):
I absolutely love. I do. I love I love urban
legends like an everyth all town, like, well, we've always
talked about, you know, anything like any kind of urban
legend from every state or every country. That's what I'm
really into, and I'm going to start when it was again, I.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
Hadn't heard any four and once but over on thirteen
Past Midnight, I made a multi video series of urban
legends that I believed as kids. And there was stuff
that I knew, you know, there was a friend of
a friend, usually stuff my mom had heard at the
beauty shop, and I just knew it was true. And

(01:13:25):
then I started reading Jan Harold Brunvaughn. He's some sort
of professor in Utah, but he started writing about the
urban legends and stuff in the eighties. He came out
that I think his first book was A Vanishing Hitchhiker,
and then he followed that up with A Choking Doberman, Curses,
Borrowed Again, and The Midnight Baby Train. I think that's
all of his books. There were stories in there that

(01:13:47):
I'd heard growing up, that happened locally, you know, supposedly
that at all. It was just basically an adult version
of the telephone game. But it was kind of a
letdown in a way to find out that you know,
this didn't really happen, at least not in my area.
But fascinating how those things have legs. They take it

(01:14:08):
out a life of their own. And I love urban legends,
but I would love to hear some from other countries.
I've heard a few from.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
I'm going to be working on Japanese.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
The Japanese mats, those are amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
So yeah, this slip mouthed woman, A lot of a
lot of them are in the bathroom stalls at schools
and so really scary. They have some really scary stuff
for Japan Like they're very like savage. Like here, we
know we have ours, but japan are scary. But I
love scary, So it's going to be really neat looking

(01:14:41):
forward to that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
I'll have to check that out and maybe one night
we can have you back on here just to talk
urban legends.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Yeah, I love urban legends. That would be cool. You
know that the hit shaker, the girl that gets the call,
the babysitter that gets the call from upstairs. I love
that one too, so mysterious. So definitely, what's your favorite
urban legend?

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
Oh gosh, I like all of them. It's under advancing hitchhiker.
Though that's I love that one because i'd heard that one.
There's a place in the Smokies where they tell that
about used to be. I can't remember that. They changed
the name of the road, and I can't remember the
old name or the new name right now. Roaring Fork.

(01:15:29):
There was a story there in the Smokies about that,
and then heard it a lot of other places, and
then some of the really frightening ones from that my
mom heard at the beauty shop when I was a kid,
like the mutilated boy where you go to the bathroom
by himself, and this part of a gang initiation. They

(01:15:50):
cut a certain part of them off, and that was
a cautionary tale to me not to go to the
bathroom by myself. For the days of Walmart and stuff
we had, I had a local store called Almart Alma Rt.
And the one on Clinton Highway is where it happened.
I remember I was in there with my parents one
time and I had to go to the bathroom, and
rather than risk going in the bathroom, I went outside

(01:16:13):
by myself at eight years old, went around behind the
building in the dark and pete on the wall. I
was probably much more dangerous than going in the bathroom.
But I heard that story, you know. And another one
that my mom brought home from the beauty parlor that
was always frightening was the Avon lady that wasn't an
Avon lady, actually a man, and the person had asked,

(01:16:37):
he's the bathroom, and she let him in there, and
she thought they'd been in there while I went to
check on him. She opens the door and it's not
an Avon lady at all, but a man, and he's nude.
She runs out and yells for the neighbor. He comes
over with his pistol. They go in. The guy has
fled out the bathroom window and left behind his Avon

(01:16:59):
sample case, and in it there's like handcuffs and a
hang and rope and a hatchet or something. You know,
that that was told is true. It happened in a
neighborhood just up the highway, you know. But that's in
there too.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
I had never heard that. Ever.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
If I can find in my research and that I
was doing for those videos, I've got a bunch of
stuff and I can send you that maybe you could
use some of it. Another one supposedly happened at West
tom Mall there in Knoxville girl was finishing a cashier shift,
came out late at night and there was somebody hiding

(01:17:36):
under her car, and the manager from another store happened
to see it and scared him off. He was hiding
under her car within a box cutter. It was supposedly
going to cut her achilles tendons so she couldn't run
away and then do something to her, And just all
kinds of things like that. And it's all about, you know,
trusting the wrong people or being in the wrong place

(01:17:58):
at the wrong time, and these things happen, most of
them cautionary tales, but somewhere there's a nugget of truth
in there that happened somewhere and then it got passed
from one locale to another and embellished and added on
to a little bit each time. Now, is that your
experience what you're finding, uh in researching things that you

(01:18:19):
finding similar stories in different geographical locations that would be a.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
Good lie or a good video. Definitely, all those cautionary
urban legends.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
Yeah, So has that been your experience though? Do you
find that they're similar but they changed from area, from
the country to another. Yeah, that's that's kind of what
I figured once I started reading those Bruvon books and like,
I heard this is a kid. I heard this is
a kid. I heard that one, you know, and they
were all just a bunch of hooey basically. But again,
somewhere I think it probably did happen, or a similar

(01:18:53):
incident happened somewhere and it got made into an urban legends.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
Yes exactly. Then you know, get his cautionary, you know, like,
now I need to watch out when I'm walking out.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
H And the other one, the killer in the back seat.
I like that one. I remember that the lady, Uh,
somebody behind her keeps flashing her light their lights and
get her to pull over, and it turns out there
was a maniac in the back seat with an axe.
Time he'd raise up, the guy would flash his lights
and then finally got her to pull over.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
I love that one.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
A similar one about a lady that pulled in to
get gas and the guy says, oh, your credit card
has been declined and you'll have to come inside, and
she's like, well, it can't be declined. I've got you know,
thousand of dollars on there. Sorry, man, you come in
or I'm going to call the police. She ends up,
she's mad. She goes in and while they're in there,
he locks the door the gas station tenant and she's like,

(01:19:49):
what's going on? And he said look, and then they
see the guy with the axe get out of her
car and run off into the woods. You know it's god,
I saw him back there and didn't want to scare you.
So did that really happen or is that just an
urban legend? Who is to say?

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
That's a good one. That is a good one. See,
that's really interest me.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
I love that. And then another one to tell the
hook where the the guy's out with his date and
they're parked in a lover's lane and the hare on
the radio that a maniac has escaped from the lunatic asylum.
And the one distinguishing feature he has a hook hand
yess that gets scared wants to leave. The guy's kind

(01:20:32):
of upset. He gets mad, he floors it and takes off,
and then when they go he gets her home, he
goes around to open her door and let her out,
and they're hanging from the door handle is the hook
The guy had had had had a hold of the
door handle and the hook got ripped out when he
wore the car and took off. I've heard that one.
There's so many of them. Again, we have you back

(01:20:56):
sometime and we'll do a whole show of nothing but
urban ledge.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Oh, that would be fun. That would be a lot
of fun, definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
And yeah, I've got some research materials I'll send you
to help you in your endeavors. Then talk about next
time you come on here.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Yes, thank you. So I love those urban legends. I
could do it a whole video on those. That would
be neat. I did a video once on Textakanum the
truck Textakana murders, and it was kind of like that
hook thing. So that was pretty neat.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Well, you asked me, Now I'll ask you what's your
favorite urban legend or maybe a couple of me. If
you like my.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
Favorite urban legend, of course, it's always going to be
Bloody Mary. I love Bloody Mary. I also like the
babysitter where she's babysitting and she gets the call have
you check the children? And then eventually she finds out
that the person is calling from within the house and

(01:22:03):
then I can't most some of them. I think she
gets murdered. U found her murdered, and I think some
of them she gets away, But I like that one.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
And didn't they make a movie about that one?

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
And I think the guy I call the phonies, have
you checked the children? She's hanging up and stuff. And
then the police call back and say he's inside the house.
He tries to call get out, get out, get out.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Actually that they made a couple of them.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
They had a stranger calls. And then there's another one
and one kind of similar to that. I know who
you are and I saw what you did. Ye see
that one? Yeah, I saw that as a kid. Scared
the crap out of me.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
I know I'm going to be doing one on the
legend of the thirteen Curves or the couple, the newly
Went couple, or driving around that very curvy road and
seedar revel. I think, I believe this is New York, right,
and it's got like a thirteen sharks.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
So I've heard of it, but I don't. I don't
know enough of the backstory to tell it. But if
you know that one, no, if you'd favor us with it,
that'd be great.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
But this one, yes, I don't know too much yet,
but I do know it says about sixty years ago,
the newlywed couple were driving on Cedarville Road, which is
very curby, like there's like thirteen big big curves, and
then they of course wrecked and they both passed away,

(01:23:32):
but she kind of stayed on and then like so
when cars go down that road, they all like see
a woman like in their car. Then she just disappears,
So I think that's her. So that's kind of all
I really know at the moment, but it's going to
be pretty neat. It's called the Legend of the thirteen Curbs,

(01:23:54):
and it's talking about, you know, the ghost bride who
they see on the side of the road, been sometimes
in the car in a white dress.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
Yeah, that's something I've thought about doing a video about
for thirteen Past Midnight. Is haunting roads, because there's a
lot of them out there and down South in particular,
just about any little community there there's a cry Baby Bridge,
and of course you've got really famous ones like Clinton
Road in New Jersey and also Shades of Death Road

(01:24:27):
also in New Jersey, and so many legends. Just on
Clinton Road. There's a there's a guy I used to
watch on YouTube that like that was almost every video,
they'd wait till dark and go to Clinton Road and
see what happened. And again, I think a lot of
it was just made for entertainment, but it was still
frightening to watch. People love to be scared. Oh yeah, definitely,

(01:24:50):
especially from a distance that way a movie or somebody
watch on YouTube where you can hear you, but it
ain't going to get you unless you go there necessarily.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
I think I have one here, the most haunted stretches
of road. I just put everything kind of in this
little note pad. Yeah, there's so much, so many get
so many ideas, but yeah, there is there is so
many haunted roads that would be a good one. That'd
be a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
And I did one about haunted and cursed vehicles that
that was an interesting one. And I do a blog
too over on Substack around the Campfire, and I've been
working on some stuff over there about cursed films and
cursed objects and there's a lot of stuff out there
once you start digging into it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
That's a good one. Cursed objects definitely, like how they
get cursed, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
Yeah, there's there's one. There's like a chair that anybody
that sits in it dies and it's in the link
there a pub or a bar, a restaurant or something.
So they've got it hung up near the ceiling where
nobody can it in it, but everybody knows the legend.
And of course there's famous curses like the Hope Diamond
and the Curse of Dunts Tomb and things like that.

(01:26:10):
But some of those, you know, I don't know how
much validity there is to that, but there's I think
there's some. I mean, if those have to start somewhere now.
Growing up watching horror films, I was never afraid of
the Mummy. I thought, just outrun him or throw a
match at him. You know, bummy bummy moves slow. I
was more afraid of the wolf man or something you

(01:26:33):
know that could catch me. What scares you if if
you're watching something to get scared? What kind of horror
film do you like? The slasher films or more the
psychological horror, or a good ghost story or I.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
Like good ghost stories. I love a good good ghost story.
I don't know if it's more the scariness. I like scariness,
but I like the mysterious part of it. So I
like a good scary film. But I like to have
like a you know, like a mystery to it. I
love that kind of stuff, but if it's going to
scare me, yes, it's got to be. Like nowadays you

(01:27:09):
have the the undead where they're actually running. Like back
when I was little, they were just like, you know, walking,
and like.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Zombies don't run, they don't swim. Yeah, I'm more of
a George Romero zombie fan. You'l not the living Dead.
Those are the kind of zombies I like. And the
same with vampires. I'm not a big fan of Twilight.
My name vampire doesn't sparkle, I think. Yeah, my little
Goosie was the pre eminent Dracula.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Yes, my girls really like that kind of stuff. But yeah,
you're right, I like more of the the old school, yeah,
Tracula and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
I kind of enjoyed the slasher stuff for a little while,
especially in the eighties. You know, you had Yeah, Friday
the Thirteenth, and you had Nightmare on Elm Street. But
they just I think they ran those into the ground.
They made some of the first Halloween John Carpenter version
that was one of the scariest films I've ever seen,
and I knew people that were impacted by that. People

(01:28:13):
that you know, were scared to death. I knew a
girl that I went to school with that walked into
the basement after seeing that and ended up stabbing her
brother's heavy white punching bag. You know. He had a big,
heavy back down there that he worked out with and
she bumped it and it bumped her back and she
grabbed a knife and stuck in it. But it was

(01:28:33):
a punching bag.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
So that was.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
That, you know, the idea of something evil that you
just can't kill, you know. Doctor Loomis shot him six
times and he went out the window and he got
up and ran away. That I enjoyed, even some of
the later films in that franchise. But Poltergeist, yeah, I
love that one. That's one of the cursed films, Yes,

(01:28:58):
because of all the deaths siated with it. And part
of the reason was supposedly because in the scene with
Joe Beth Williams where she's in the swimming pool and
the skeletons are popping up, they used actual human skeletons
from India, I think it was, and she didn't know
it at the time, but there's other things there.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
But what pursed that scent?

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
That's one of the theories, and of course the Exorcist.
That's that's a frightening film from my perspective because my brother,
who's a Pentecostal minister, that was part of his minister
he had a deliverance ministry. They had services where they
would cast demons out of people and I wouldn't stick
around for that, but he would tell stories that would

(01:29:44):
corol your hair of stuff, the stuff that he came
up against, and I don't want anything to do with
anything to that. Yeah, it's too disturbing to me, just
because I know the reality of it from stuff I've
seen in heard from a Pentecostal side of it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
Definitely. That's one thing that does scare me is that
goodness I can't think of right now, like demons, demons
and stuff like that. I can't. I just can't.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Yeah, especially true life stuff like that, like the Exorcism
type movies. And now I have watched The Exorcist. I
figured out it to myself to watch it at least once,
and it's disturbing. That's another cursed film.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
Did you watch the old one?

Speaker 1 (01:30:39):
Was Linda Blair. I haven't seen any of the remakes,
but I read the book by William Peter Bladdie when
I was I think I was in grade school or
maybe high school when that came out, and the film
follows it pretty closely. But the book is one of
those that I didn't read it at night, or I'd
have to put it down and you watch cartoons or
the three U something come back to it because it's

(01:31:03):
it's that frightening just from a religious perspective for me.
Now everybody may not feel that way, but that one's
another cursed film. A lot of things happened on the set.
A lot of people that were in that film had
strange things happened to them or their loved ones. And
I don't know, to me, stuff like that's not something

(01:31:23):
to be taken lightlier that you fool around with.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
So you really do believe in these curses?

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
Oh, the demonic side of it, I do, yeah, And
I think things can pick up evil. I think people
can be I've known the people that were doing the
end of things that they shouldn't be and attracted things
like that demonic energy to them. I think that can
happen unknowingly and unwittingly. And again it's you know, if

(01:31:52):
you don't know what you're fooling with trouble.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
That's why I don't. I not play with Wishi boards
I have.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
I got the first one I ever owned when I
was six years old. My mom bought it for me
later in life. Yeah, I don't fool with them now
I'll watch other people do it, but there's just something again,
like my grandma and the tarot cards, there's some kind
of energy with that that I don't like. Yes, it
doesn't feel right to me. It feels very dark, very negative.

(01:32:27):
And my experiences with a child were great, but again
I didn't really realize what I was just messing with.
They know, my mom did it with me, she had
done it with her family and things. But yeah, it's
not anything I would be interested in. Now. That was
another video I did. I'm thirteen. Allegedly true wigboard stories

(01:32:49):
and some of them are just very very frightening.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
Oh yes, definitely. I don't know if it's because of
what I've watched or or what, but my mom always
was against them too, like, never ever ever touch owed board,
and I did, I think when I was nine, and nothing,
you know, nothing happened. But even though I am a
card reader, you know, I do try to do all

(01:33:14):
these apps, like the communicating with you know, the dead,
I still feel like I should not touch Oeedy board.

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
So yeah, I just I would prefer not to. And
like I said, I'll watch other people do it, and
I'm kind of fascinated by it. And I've been at
parties and things where when it was my turn to
ask a question, the board knew what it was talking
about and even though I didn't know anybody there. So
there's there's something there. There's I again, I don't know
if it's some sort of psychokinesis or something out there

(01:33:49):
that we all have that they're just tapping into it
that way, or if it is something dark and possibly demonic.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
Exactly. I'm afraid, like there's like this store that opens
and then if you don't close it a certain way,
or if you're trying to communicate and they can get in.
And I do feel like that, and so I just
don't mess with them.

Speaker 1 (01:34:09):
Yeah. I've got some story on the first episode of
Midnight Mailbox, which is another podcast that I have where
listeners send in their true paranormal submissions. A friend of
Nicholes from Connecticut. It's her sister's story about all this
stuff that went on with the wage board, some scary stuff. Again,

(01:34:29):
not anything that I want to fool with. But I'll
gladly narrate other people's stories.

Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
Yeah, I like I love listening to the stories, watching
the movie, some of the movies on them. I definitely
do you know. I've heard a lot of different stories too,
and I think it's interesting. I just myself, I don't
want to be the main character. Yeah, exactly, it's definitely interesting.

(01:34:57):
And I don't know, uh guessing kind of, I don't.
I don't consider myself dark or anything like that, like
I said before, But uh, I like my cards. I
love my cards, and and.

Speaker 1 (01:35:12):
I think also a lot of it has to do
with the intent that you're using it for, especially with
cards and things like that. If you're using it to
help somebody or to give them affirmations or insight, that's
one thing. There's there's not a darkness associated with that,
at least not in my experience. Your minds may vary,
but that's the way I see it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
If it's.

Speaker 1 (01:35:36):
A tool, But like any tool, it can be misused.
I mean, a shovel is a tool. It can be
used for good things, but you could injure somebody with
it on purpose, you know, then it's it's a weapon.
And I feel that way about boards and talking boards
and really anything like that. It's the intent.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
Yeah, it's like when I is like the hacked radio
to try to communicate, or the cards anything. I try
to keep it positive. You know, I've been doing it
for like six years. Everything seems to be positive. I said,
I don't want anything negative. Definitely that I really enjoy

(01:36:19):
the cards. You know, a lot of people do the
wiki war too, and they seem to be fine.

Speaker 1 (01:36:25):
Yeah. Again, I don't know. It just it's not for me.
That's about all I can say for for tarot and
for wage boards and things like that. Pendulum dowsing, I
love that I can do that. I can do the
water dowsing. My dad could do that. He taught me
how to do it. But I don't feel any darkness
or like I'm playing with evil if I'm dowsing for water,

(01:36:48):
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
Exactly. That's how I feel here in my office, all
my cards, and I wouldn't mind doing the dowsing or
that I have a pendulum pendulum. I don't know if
you see a pendulum pendulum, I see pendulum.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
But yeah, from down south, we call it a pendulum,
but I think it is. I'm probably mispronouncing it, but
he said, I've tried some of that, and I've tried
the map dowsing, especially some of these missing person cases,
and there are people that can do that. I haven't
had any luck with it, but you never know until

(01:37:26):
you try.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
Well, that would be neat, That would be definitely to help.

Speaker 1 (01:37:33):
Find people, you know that that's basically the whole impetus
or among the missing is you know, to be the
voice of those that no longer have a voice and
to keep their names and faces out there. And uh
mission statement. If we can bring one person home or
worst case scenario, give one family closure, then we're doing

(01:37:53):
what we've been led to do. And there are channels
that have adventures with purpose. You know, they go out,
they found cars, some erched in water, and solve some
missing cases that way and things, and I applaud those
guys that are doing that kind of work.

Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
I've seen that too. That is, they have been finding
people missing for years and bringing them back to their families.
So definitely yeah, and again.

Speaker 1 (01:38:23):
You know, it's about the closure. And I had somebody
in the chat not too long ago. Were in the
comments say that there's no such thing as closure, but
I think to a degree there is. It's never completely closed.
But to not know, I think it would be the
worst if you had a missing loved one and you
did what happened to me? If you didn't know, well,
are they still alive? Are they hurt or they have amnesia?

(01:38:47):
Are they being held against their will? But at least
you know if you get, if you do find the
remains or whatever, you've got that sense, you've got a
grave that you can visit, or an earn that you
can memorial, And that would be something rather than always
always wondering and never because of these cases where like

(01:39:08):
the Dennis Martin case where he went missing and the
father you know, never gave up hoping, but yes he
died without any closure whatsoever. And that's that says. I
can't imagine how gut wrenching it is to do something
like that and just that horrible empty feeling of not knowing.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
As a parent, I would want to know. I would
want to know. I would want my child, you know,
either way, I want that closure you do get. And
I've heard parents of missing children say you know, I
want to know. I want to know bring him home,

(01:39:47):
by the way, so I can imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:39:51):
Yeah, And I've interviewed surviving parents like that, and you know,
it's it's a horrible, horrible thing, but they said I
would rather know than not know what happens, always wondering.
That's either way. It's got to be just you know,
I can't imagine. I can't trying to put myself in
their shoes but exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
Give them that closure. Though I would want it, I
can't imagine either. That is a great thing, though, that
you're doing with the missing persons.

Speaker 1 (01:40:25):
Yeah, I appreciate that, and I appreciate your help with
some of the stuff that you're helping us with over there,
some research and things helping. We appreciate that. And anytime, Yeah, absolutely,
Well we've got a few minutes left here. Anything else
you'd like to cover, Anything about your channel, anything you've

(01:40:46):
got going on. What do you do for distraction when
you're not doing these horror stories or whatever. What do
you like to do that's just enjoyable. You're an outdoors
person or you a sports person, or what do you
do aside for all that?

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
Well, because I'm a mom, I have the four daughters.
Three of them are grown, one is fourteen, she's my
one at home. And then I'm also a grandma. So
like my daughter Meghan, she just had her little boy,
so I.

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
Have congratulations, Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
So really just being trying to be a mom to
all four of them. And you think it all stops
when they're adults, but it doesn't, you know. Yeah, So
I got the daughters I have to help and guide,
and then I want to go up and see the
grand baby and spoil him. Well, I got a couple

(01:41:42):
of them, but he's the newest, so that's kind of
my thing. And I'm not researching or narrating or working
on my channel. It's just being mom and grandma and
I really I love it. Keeps me so busy, so busy, yeah,
no doubt.

Speaker 1 (01:41:59):
Well what do you your daughters think of what you do?
Are they listeners or your channel and big fans or
do they pay much attention to it or how does
that go?

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
I wish they would be more into it. I do
catch my oldest Deanna, she'll go and listen to all
my stuff and she's very, very very proud of me.
And then Megan, she's twenty two, and then Brooke is eighteen.
They don't really care. I'm like, okay, whatever. Then my
fourteen year old is like really really really really proud

(01:42:31):
and trying to help me write and trying to help
me research, and she asks like she's older than all
of them. She's very, very, very independent, and they're a
whole independent and smart that she's like, she ACKs like
she's older. So she's always trying to help mama and
very proud of me. So I just hope to leave
them something someday, like all these narrations and they can say, hey,

(01:42:54):
that's my mama, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
Yeah, And then that's kind of the way I feel
about my book books too. That'll be a legacy for
me to leave. And the videos and things. I don't
think YouTube's going anywherey time soon. But I hope someday
that my grandkids are great grandkids, if I ever have any,

(01:43:17):
we'll be able to look back at that and say, wow,
you know, Papa, or something else. Or they might be
embarrassed by the whole thing, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
Think they're going to be very proud.

Speaker 1 (01:43:28):
I think the books at least they'll be proud of. Again,
I'm not it ain't Shakespeare, it ain't Stephen King, but
it's you know, it's mine. And that's always a good
feeling to to put pen to paper, as it were,
fingers to keys and and write something that people want
to read, and you know, having best sellers and things.
That's a great feeling. I never never thought I was

(01:43:50):
just right, here we go, and then all this just
kind of fell into it backwards. And so I encourage
you to right. I mean, that's anybody listening to this.
Everybody's got a story or stories that they can tell,
and it's it's easier and it seems, but it's also
harder dedication and persistence and getting that disciplined like I'm gonna,

(01:44:15):
you know, set a side of time every day or
five days a week or three days a week or
on the weekends, and I'm going to write this and
you have to get in that mindset. And it's one
of those things the more you do it, the easier
it gets. Or that's been my experience. Again, anybody else's mileage.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
May vary, but all the hard work, all the hard heart,
hard work, makes it even better, doesn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:44:37):
Like in the end, you're like, I did this, well,
you get that sense of accomplishment. You know, sometimes it's
thank God, that's done next, but there is a sense
of pride accomplishment there that I did it, you know,
and I've finished it. And because I've got so many
projects and flux, you know, especially some of the film
scripts and things like that that take a lot of

(01:44:59):
tw can get a lot of rewrites and stuff. And
that's my least favorite part of it. Yeah, And if
there's anything I enjoy as much, if not more, than writings,
to show up somewhere and talk about my books or
talk about my writing, I like to do the book
signings and going on shows like this or YouTube channels
and things take.

Speaker 2 (01:45:18):
Practice for you to like start like actually being able
to talk about it and tell about it rather than
like for me, it's easier to put into it like
a script and tell about it and talk about it
like with you.

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
I just I love the extemporaneous speaking that was. I
could do that in college. I remember when I first
took that class, they would give you a subject on
a note card and you had five minutes to prepare.
The professor, I said, if I've got five minutes to prepare,
that's not extemporaneous. I want you to hand me to
the card when I take the podium, And like all

(01:45:51):
the other students in the class were just a gas.
You know, they were freaking out because they only had
five minutes. I didn't want to five minutes, and I
just I've got to give to gab now. It did
take me a while to get used to doing in
front of people and on camera and things I said
for a long time, I would never show my face
on YouTube. Now you can't get me off the thing.
But I was always shy and backward. I was the

(01:46:14):
one that hated having to stand up and give a
report or anything like that. But again, it's easier once
you get to do it. You know you're afraid of
ridicule or afraid of failure. I think the only thing
worse than that fear of failure is to have a
fear of success. And you don't know what you can
do until you try. So I encourage you and anybody

(01:46:35):
listening if you have the least inclination that you want
to write something, give it a try. You never know.
I didn't know I could do it until I did it.
Same with the narrator.

Speaker 2 (01:46:46):
Definitely inspiring I can listen to you sit there and
narrate and talk and stuff. It's very inspiring.

Speaker 1 (01:46:54):
Thank you, And again, I hope I inspire you and
a lot of other people to follow your passion. Find
something that that you're good at. And my dad always
told me that, boy, if you could find a way
to get paid for talking, you'd be said, or the
other thing on a more less joking level, he'd say,

(01:47:15):
find something you love to do, find a way to
get paid for it, and you'll never work a day
in your life. And that's that's true. And I'm sadly
I didn't get here until I was, you know, in
my fifties, but it made for a nice early retirement.
And this, the books and YouTube and the podcast is
that's all I do. That's all done for years. But
it's you know, I'm comfortable and I enjoy what I do.

(01:47:38):
And Nicole loves it too, and she likes to edit,
she likes to write, and just so many ways we're
a match made and have and she's literally the other
part of me, the part that's always been missing. So
that neat, Yeah, it is, is this most wonderful feeling ever.

Speaker 2 (01:47:57):
I'm happy. That's awesome. That's really you found your other
piece and you guys are just doing this and that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:48:07):
Yeah, new journeys. Now. We talked about some of the
projects you've done and then some that you've really enjoyed.
What was the hardest narration that you've ever done? For me,
it was what I had to do, like maybe some
cases or or like even in school, write a paper
or give a talk on something that I just really
wasn't into and it was like torture, you know, just

(01:48:29):
to drag it out of myself. Has there ever been
anything like that that you thought was a good idea
and then once you got into it, like I don't
know about this, but you persevered and got to the end.
I had anything like that that was just Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
I was actually going to do some true crime on
my channel and it just kept triggering me and oh
that people were messaging me and saying that, you know,
it's very triggering, and so it was just it wasn't
the right thing because I wanted to kind of bring
like I wanted theseus to be out there and to
be you know, like, hey, don't forget us or you know,

(01:49:05):
that was my point.

Speaker 1 (01:49:06):
And there's so many evil people out there. It's hard
to cover that stuff now. Back in the eighties I
covered like the crime beat for the local newspapers and stuff.
I was also a stringer for those. There were those
true crime magazines like you used to see in the
drug store, like Startling Detective and things like that. I
used to cover cases for that, and I think Nietzsche

(01:49:28):
said it best that when you peer into the abyss,
the abyss also peers into you, and I found that true,
especially with the true crime. It's that way with the
missing people. Sometimes you get so gets into your skin,
especially the children and the old people. To send your
citizens that go missing, Yes, that those affected me the worst.

(01:49:48):
But some of those crime cases you have to dig
in and do the research and literally it's my proxy,
but you relive that case exactly. And it's just I've
got it the startings of a true crime channel, but
I've never done anything with it yet. I keep thinking someday,
but again, just I know it took its toll on
me before when I wrote about it a lot and

(01:50:12):
covered it, and you know, I went to murder trials
and things like that, and it's just I don't think
I can do it anymore. It's just it too much
gets under your skin. It does mine. And part of
that's been an EmPATH and having more feelings. I mean,
when you have that, you're anything that other people feel.

(01:50:33):
I feel that times ten is the way I've tried
to describe it, and that includes, you know, the bad things,
the horrible things, the nightmares that people have had to
live through, and the nightmares that people have died during.
You know, it's just I don't know, no easy choices,
and so they stuff. You know, you like you said,

(01:50:53):
you want to keep those cases out there if nothing
else for cautionary tales. Other people won't in those situations.
But there's some some sad, horrible, tragic stuff out there,
and just definitely that's the old saying goes the evil
that men and women do to one another. Sometimes it's
just it's terrible. And I said, I covered one serial

(01:51:16):
killer that was responsible Israel Keys for a lot of
missing people, and he's just the man was the devil
incarnate almost and just yet to his family and his
daughter and stuff, he was just dad. But it's going
out on the weekends and stashing kill kits and national
parks and on the other side of the country and

(01:51:37):
they would go back and wait, and these crimes were
opportunity and then he had his stuff there to ply
his evil trade and just you know, I mean, he
had to sit and think about these things and plan
and he was good at it. They think he was
responsible for even more than a dozen or so murders
that they were able to hang on him. And again

(01:51:58):
you have the Ted and Jeffrey Dahmers and people like that.
They're just I can't wrap my mind around such.

Speaker 2 (01:52:09):
Evil, twisted things as that, exactly as I I can't either.
I can't. I can't understand how, oh how could you
raise someone and then you just don't know, and like
they just turn into these or they are these monsters.

Speaker 1 (01:52:27):
I just don't know how that's a good term. And
there's a book I think it's Those who Fight Monsters
or something like that, and it's talking about like these
FBI profilers and people that have to I mean, that's
their job to get into the heads of these evil
murders people and then try to predict what they're going

(01:52:47):
to do next, where they're going to do it, or
look for some way that they're going to slip up
and get caught.

Speaker 2 (01:52:54):
Exactly and that would be interesting, definitely to try to
profile them, get into their heads. And I mean I
wouldn't want to, but I mean it's interesting because it helps,
you know, and it tries to help, like you know,
how to stop them. And definitely, but yeah, so yeah,
true crime. A lot of people love true crime. You

(01:53:18):
can find the right people to watch it, and definitely it's.

Speaker 1 (01:53:21):
A fascinating genre. The books so like crazy. I'll never
forget one time when I was into it. I was
in a bookstore and I was looking through the true
crime section. There's a little old lady there could have
been my grandmother, maybe my great grandmother, and she pulls
a book off the shelf and she said, have you
read this one? And no, ma'm I haven't. She said, oh,

(01:53:41):
you'll like it. He kills everybody with an axe. And
this wasn't you know, this was true stuff. It was
true stories. It wasn't a novel or a anything like that.
This was real stories. And she was just you know,
I said, little sweet, little old grandma looking lady, and
she was delighted, you know, to recommend this book. Oh
you'll love it. He does it with an axe, you know.

(01:54:03):
And just met some interesting folks when I was doing
that sort of thing, and you have I call them
like true crime junkies that can't get enough of it.
When I would go cover those trials and things for
the newspapers and things, I would see people at some
of those trials that were just there to spectators because

(01:54:26):
they love to hear those first person accounts and the
testimony and see this evil person and see the family
that all this had happened to. And that was the
part that bothered me. You know, Yeah, those trials that
I covered, it was hard to sit there and look
at those people and think, I'm looking at the person
that did this, these horrible atrocities to other living people,

(01:54:47):
and here they're sitting here maybe with a half smile
on their faces. They're not a bit sad or upset.
There brazenly guilty, some of them. Scary, eery world.

Speaker 2 (01:55:01):
It really is. I've been kind of peeking on some
of those true crime channels because there's a lot out
there and covering. I don't know how they do it.
They you know, they cover like all these all these monsters,
like the things that they do, and it's so bad
for the you know, the families.

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
Yeah, there's certain ones that I like. There's one called
that chapter as an arch guy called Mike or Mike
as he said, and he kind of tries to interject
some humor into it. But yeah, he does a good job.
But he covers some just horrible, horrible cases and uh,
probably the grittiest one that I've ever seen in my

(01:55:39):
entire life. There's a guy, uh he used to be
a producer for Dateline these Dateline NBC, but he was
like the UK corresponded these Canadian born but lived in
the UK. I think I've got that right. And his
YouTube channels called dead Bugs says, and I mean each
one of those is like, I mean, a TV style

(01:56:00):
documentary there research and put together. But he covers some
of the most horrific cases I've ever seen, and he
doesn't pull any punches. I don't see how he's still
on YouTube. He's not and will never be monetized. He's
ordered through Patreon and things like that. But I don't
want to recommend it and have somebody shocked or horrified

(01:56:23):
by it. But that's as gritty as it gets for
true crime that I've ever seen in anything.

Speaker 2 (01:56:30):
Some people can do it, I personally couldn't do it
that there's one people out there that can. That's their thing.
They can they cover, They cover these cases and they
cover them. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:56:40):
Is there one case in particular that that you're just
fascinated by? For me, it's the Son of Sam case.
I remember when all that happened, and I've delved into
a lot. There's a guy thing, his name's Manny, that
has a YouTube channel that he goes out and investigates
a lot of those places that are linked to the
Son of Salmon. He's uncovered something, he's had uh surviving

(01:57:01):
victims on there, he's had witnesses, he's he really digs
into it. I'm just something about that case just fascinates me,
and I agree with his findings. I don't think it
was all David Berkowitz. I think there was a group
of people that were in on that. It makes sense
the way he puts the facts out there. Really good
book by Mary Terry called The Ultimate Evil that digs

(01:57:23):
into that too. Do you have one like that that
go to that you love to hear about.

Speaker 2 (01:57:32):
I'm obsessed with the John Benet Ramsey case.

Speaker 1 (01:57:36):
I had that accession too, kept thinking any day now
they're going to find it. They're going to solve there.
They're they're going to solve this. They're going to solve this.
Never there's another one with no closure. I have some
bad theories of courtun we don't have time to get
into it here. We only got about two minutes left.
They only got two hours here. But yeah, that one,

(01:57:56):
that's I think that was bubbled by the police and
love enforcement from the word go. I think there was
some collusion there with the family. I think there's cover
ups and definitely they had a lot of money. I
don't want to say anything here. That's what I get
sued for. Yeah, but I don't think we'll ever know
the full story on that one. But that's that's another

(01:58:19):
head scratcher.

Speaker 2 (01:58:20):
I think that one is already paid. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:58:23):
Well, Cassie, we're gonna have to wrap it up here
for this episode of everything out there. Thank you for
being here. Maybe next time when you come back, I'll
let you do most of the talking. But as you
can tell, I love to talk, but I want to
have you back to talk specifically about Urban Legends. Will
plan that as soon as possible. Thank you, Thank you
for being here. Uh YouTube channel is Tales Told in

(01:58:48):
the Dark. There'll be links in the show notes. Go
over and check her out. Tell her Steve, sin't you again.
Thank you for being here. I hope you're having a
happy new year, and my best to you and yours.
And again, thank you for your help with Nicole and
myself as well for the time among the missing channel anytime.

(01:59:09):
Thank you guys, our pleasure and my pleasure having us
a guest tonight. Thanks again, Cassie, and we'll be talking
to you soon. All right, folks, that's gonna wrap it
up for tonight. I'm Steve Stockton. You've been listening to
everything out there on the Clyde Lewis Ground zero Radio Network.
I'll see you a little further on down the trail.

(01:59:30):
Tell your animals, I said, Hi. Good night everybody,