Strange Realities

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Everything out There with your host Steve Stockton. Hello, friends, Hello,
Hello once again, every wasn't Steve Stocking here with you

(00:21):
Everything out There on the Clyde Lewis Ground zero Radio Network.
Joining me tonight, my good friend Adam saying, host of
the Conspirat Normal podcast and also brings about every year
the Strange Realities Conference, which I was a part of
one year, Adam saying, how you doing, Adam? Come on
in here.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm well Steve, how are you. It's good to talk
to you tonight.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, doing great. I'm glad to have you here with
us in a while since we talked, so we had
a little catching up to do before the show. But yeah,
I had to hear that Strange Realities is still going on.
I was a part of that, maybe the first one
or the second one, and I must not have done
a very good job because I didn't get invited back.

(01:04):
But that was during COVID and I appeared remotely and uh,
if I remember my talk, I drew parallels with the
Missing People, Bigfoot, Pyramids, cargo cults, the Tower of Babel,
and I don't know, there's a whole MiG missmash and stuff,

(01:26):
and it sounded like a good idea at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
It was. It was a good presentation. Well thank you, Yeah, sir,
we had we haven't had you back, but you know
we can. We could talk about some of that after
the show.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
I guess, okay, good deal. Uh well, yeah, last time
we talked, I was still in Portland or just outside Portland, Oregon,
and I've moved from there to the High Desert, New
Mexico and now I'm in New England, so a little
closer to where you're at in nationalist time. Yeah, be
easier for me to get there and then it would

(02:00):
have been before. But anyway, for those of you that
aren't familiar with the Conspira Normal podcast or the Strange
Realities Conference, Adam, go ahead and tell us what those
are all about.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Uh yeah, well.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
I started Conspiraormal podcast that anybody that wants to know
how to find that. That's it's odd spelling, but it's
a con SBI RI I and then Normal O n
O R M AL and started that back in twenty twelve.
So I've been doing this now for over twelve years

(02:40):
as a as a podcaster, which almost seems like in podcasting.
The podcasting world is like an eternity. It feels like
a really long time. But I've been doing that for
about twelve years, and around twenty nineteen we started something
called the Range Realities Conference that we put on every

(03:03):
year in Nashville, Tennessee. And I'll go ahead and just
on your show, make this announcement. We're actually going to
be doing this again coming up the November first and
the second. It is a live conference, but it is
also streamed online, actually using the platform you're using right now,

(03:24):
So it's streamed online and it's available for for anybody
that wants to view it. So we'll be you know,
talking about pricing and all that as we come come up.
But make announcement November first and second. And I've had
several different guests the people that have looking at the

(03:48):
conferences conference, people like Joshua Kutchen, yourself, Timothy Renter, Tim
Banall from the Banal of America show, he's been on
there several times. We're in Collier, but John Tinney. So
we've had like a nice like Alan Greenfield. It's been
like a nice cast of characters that we've had kind
of come and go with the Strange Realities conference.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
So we line up and I'll put links to all
this in the show notes how people can find conspira
normal and any information you might have available about Strange Realities.
But I was looking at your podcast on the YouTube side.
You've had some great guests there recently. Like I said,
I've been on the show, I know a couple of times, and.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
More than a couple you Robert Gefi a lot.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
I guess it has been a lot. I don't remember.
It all kind of blends together after a while. I've
done a lot of shows. I was on the Coast
to Coast again a couple of weeks ago. I always
have fun on there with George. But it's just it's
amazing some of the stuff that you dig up. I
know when I was on there, we talked about we
talked about comedia. I don't remember if I was on

(04:55):
with Robert Gophy, if I came on before or after
one of the first time he was on there with you.
But that's that whole thing fascinates me, with a cloaking
and all that, and who else did I see that
you have some of the guests you've had recently. I
was I looked at it and had all these names
in my head, and now that's the only one I
can remember.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Well recently this year, I mean we've had we had
We did this episode with.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Robert Guffey, that's the one that you're referring to. We
did one with my good friend Doctor Future because they
had some similar interests and similar things that they both
write about, so they came on. Nathan Isaac I had
on for the penny Roll podcast. He's also been a party.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
He's great. I'd had him on one of my YouTube
shows before that. He's doing some amazing work up there
in Somerset, Kentucky.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's some Yeah, it's some really interesting stuff,
which actually you know that's not as you probably know,
that's not too far from me.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
So I gone up there at least once.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
And so you've been up there and experienced the high
weirdness of his Somerset.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah, yeah, to get up there and experience more of it.
But yeah, an interesting place.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah. I used to go up there a lot when
I lived in Eastern Tennessee. Had yeah relatives, not my relatives,
but the person I was with. Their relatives lived in
Stearns and mccrarry County, or mccrurry and Sterns and Whitley
City in McCurry County. But yeah, there's a lot of weird,

(06:25):
weird places up there. Somerset's a little farther on up
the road, but they've got a paranormal museum up there
now apparently. Have you been to that?

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, we went to that a couple
of years ago.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
What's that like.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
It's well, I think it's.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Changed locations now because they had some issues with the building,
but they're it's it's it's kind of a small museum,
but it's you know, dedicated to all things. It's kind
of weird and cryptosology and parent it's kind of like
a paranormal themed and cryptosiological theme museum. So it's a
really neat little museum. There's a nice little local flavor

(07:04):
up there.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah. I really love to get up there and check
the museum. I said, I've been to Somerset. I used
to like to go to the flea market up there.
They had a big outdoor flea market. But there's just
there's a whole weirdness about that area. And there's an
abandoned coal mining town up there called Yamacross, where I've
had some paranormal experiences and stuff. And I think they

(07:28):
tore up the old railroad bed and made that a
biking and hiking trail through there now. But at one
time there was a lot of old foundations where homes
have been there, where those coal miners lived, and I
talked to people up there. I'd get out and ramble
around and met people that had a lot of weird experience,
a lot of ghostly encounters. And it's not too far

(07:50):
on up the road to Cumberland Falls. That's another strange area.
Have you ever been to Cumberland Falls?

Speaker 2 (07:56):
I don't think, I know. I don't think I have
been up there.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
That's the part that's a kind of a part of like, well,
I guess more Middle Tennessee there, or East Tennessee and
like eastern Kentucky that I really haven't explored.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, there's a lot there, And of course, uh where
you're at there in Nashville, you're close to Adams and
the Bill Witch game. Oh yeah, I been there a
few times. Chris Kirby. I showed up one time. This
is years and years ago, and uh, I got like
a private tour there was only one there, and I
got some weird pictures and stuff. And she had a

(08:30):
couple of scrap books photo scrap books full of just
bizarre stuff that she had taken and other people taking.
There's definitely still some weird energy there.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Oh yeah, that Adams is a weird place. We actually
did that as a greep right after the after the
conference on that Sunday, and that was like, I think
the last weekend. I think they were going to actually
be open because of course, you know, they they really
do it up on Halloween. Yeah, the Cave is an

(09:02):
interesting place. It's kind of an interesting situation because it's
like a family owns that land and so then they
own the cave.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
So they have like.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
They've really like kind of used the legend so to speak,
to really like market this thing, and so you know,
it's like a it's a basically like its own family
owned business up there.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, and I can appreciate that. I mean a lot
of these little cryptid encounters and not little, but you know,
localized stuff like that they do that. You've got the
moth Man Festival and Point Pleasant, You've got oh what's
the other just this gave me the flat Woods monster.
They've embraced that one, and I think that's a good
way to approach that. If you can embrace the legend,

(09:53):
the folklore, the cryptids and make it a tourist spot,
then you're bringing people in there, and you're just keep
putting that legend out there for people who know about.
So it's especially some of these little isolated places.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, I was up there.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
I actually got to go up to West Virginia a
couple of years and nearly a couple of years ago,
and you know the you know, went to Point Pleasant
of course, but also there's you know the flat Woods area,
I think like Braxton, West Virginia, yep. And you know,
there's a little museum there and somebody was trying to

(10:29):
put on a festival.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
And down the street from the.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Flat Woods Monster Museum, this little town in West Virginia
there's this like Bigfoot museum. And so like you kind
of notice how this, uh, these kind of small towns,
if they have some kind of little local legend or
cryptid or whatever that's associated with them, that they're you
know because it really, I mean, it really helps their economy.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
You know, those places little coal mining communities, and I
don't know if there's still mining activity in there or not.
But if you don't, I had somebody tell me if
you don't work in the mines or feed the miners,
there's not much else to do for a job.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's all just completely it was
dependent on that, on that industry.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah. And what else is in that area? Of course,
not too far east of you there, and you got
the Great Smokies and Appalachian Trail, another pocket of weirdness.
It's just I love the entire southeast, you know, Virginia,
West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia. There's just all kinds

(11:37):
of weird stuff.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Well where I'm from too, I mean, you know, there's
I'm from originally from the Chattanooga area, and there's there's
there's a lot there too, especially the Chickamauga Battlefield.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah. I've had some strange experiences there and heard a
lot of stories August Snodgrass Hill and the tower and
all that.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
The green Eyes, you know, the Old Green Eyes is
something that growing up, I used to hear about a lot.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, and I've heard a legend that that thing was
actually already there and it was seen flitting around in
amongst the dead and dying while the battles going on.
So I left or it's it was just something there,
But that's a creepy area. I had an uncle that
lived in Fort Oglethorp for a while. When we go
down to visit him, I go to check him out

(12:27):
and check it out.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah. I mean Ford i Board too has its own
like interesting history.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
You know, that used to be like an army barracks
and there was like a.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
German prisoner at war camp there, and.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
You know that's like that was where Patton was stationed
there at one time doing tank maneuvers. So there's a
lot of interesting history and the weird you know tids
that her down there.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, And I think it's like that to a degree everywhere,
but some places you have to look a little harder
for it. When I lived in New Mexico, I wasn't
that far from Roswell and the other crash site out there.
I can't remember the name of it off the top
of my head. Wasn't too far from Dulci Base and

(13:13):
that's just a weird area too. But you think about
that if you're on some kind of interplanetary or interdimensional
craft and you had to ditch. What better place than
to go out in the sand. It reminds me like
driving out of the Smokies, either into Cherokee or coming
back out the other side. They have those runaway truck

(13:34):
ramps and that's what they do that it runs uphill
and then ends in a sand pit. And basically the
desert out there where I was at the High Desert,
it's the world's biggest cat box. And I could see
why you would ditch something in Roswell or any of
those places out there. Kind of makes sense.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah, Plus there was a lot of experimentation going on
out there, so I mean, you know there there's plenty
of places, plenty of places to hide where like the
government or whatever, the Air Force or whoever it could
have been doing stuff they never would have known about.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, well, that's like Oak Ridge where I'm from, the
city behind the fence that didn't even exist on any
map or anything. City was gated. They had armed guards
at all the entrances into town. You had to be
badged to get in or out. That's where my parents
met back in the forties. They were working on the
Manhattan Project together and they didn't know what they were

(14:32):
working on, but they had a good idea. It was
all compartmentalized like that, and of course you had part
of it in oak Ridge and then more in Los
almost New Mexico. They wanted as much distance as possible
between the visionable materials. But almost was born in New Mexico.
My dad had a job offer to transfer to Los Almos,

(14:53):
but my mom wanted to stay in East Tennessee because
she had family, my maternal grandmother and her family from
the Cats over the Smokies. So ended up born in Oakridge.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Oakridge Hospital, Well it could almost been in New Mexico. Huh. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Let me ask you about you know, Oakridge. There's an
interesting story and I think I first heard you say it,
and then I think Timothy Rinner became aware of it.
But there was this there was this I think it
like the nineteeneens or in the twenties or some point.
There was this man there that accurately predicted that Oakridge

(15:34):
would be there. You know what I'm talking about, Yeah,
I do. The fascinating story.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
And the Science and Energy Museum there in Oakridge, they
used to have an exhibit. John Hendricks was the man's
name the Profit of Oakridge, but it wasn't Oakridge at
that time. And yeah, he had all these predictions that
he had made. And I've been to his grave before.
It was out in the woods over near Jefferson Middle

(16:05):
School there in oak Ridge, and I think now it's
either been relocated or it's under the pavement at a
home depot they built over there. Last time it was
in there, couldn't find the grave anymore, and there was
a home depot there in the woods. So but yeah,
they used to have an exhibit there at the Museum
of Science and Energy there in Oakridge used to be
the Atomic Museum, but they thought it would be more

(16:27):
tourist friendly to call it the Museum of Science and Energy.
And I don't even know if it's there anymore. But
they had an exhibit and done applied to a portrait
cabin and they had a semi animatronic mannequin on there
and he pushed a button and he had rocked in
his chair. And he was supposed to be John Hendricks
until about all these things. And he was considered a

(16:51):
mystic in the air, kind of a you know, the
local looney. But everything he did came true for everything.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
What did he say when did that happen? Either, because
I couldn't exactly remember when it was, but what did
he actually say that.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Let's see, my friend at Google here is going to
fill me in. He was born on November nine, eighteen
sixty five, in Anderson County. Let's see visions of the future.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah, because, like you know, I'm really surprised that I've
never heard this, and growing up in Tennessee until you
talked about it, I never heard of it.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, like I said, it was, you know, local legend.
I've been to the grave they called that. The local
kids did it that middle school. They called it the
Jefferson Graves, but they didn't really realize whose grave it was.
And this tombstone said something like I've used to have
a picture of it somewhere that I took it. Here
lies John Hendrick's Your battles are over your your pieces one,

(17:51):
your rest is won or something. It's kind of a
strange epitaph for him there. But let's see around the
turn of the century that century teen eighteen hundreds into
the nineteen hundreds, his two year old daughter died of diphtheria,
and let's see and then Julia and his wife left

(18:15):
and took the three remaining Hendricks children to Arkansas, where
she later remarried. Says here. After the loss of his
daughter and the heartbreaking departure of his family, John Hendrix
was drawn to religion and mysticism. He retreated to the
woods for forty days and forty nights to sleep on
the ground and pray, believing that his active faith would
bring him divine revelations. And some people believed he was

(18:40):
a witch. But his most startling vision predicted monumental changes
to his hometown. As described in the Oakridge Story by
Georgio Robinson, Hendrix made the following prophecy to his audience
at the Crossroads General Store, I tell you Bear Creek
Valley someday will be filled with great buildings and factories,
and they will help towards when the greatest war that

(19:00):
will ever be, And there will be a city on
black Oakridge, and the center of authority will be a
spot middleway between Severe Tadlock's farm and Joe BIA's place.
A railroad spur will branch off the main l end line,
run down toward Robertsville, and then branch off and turn
towards Scarborough. Big engines, not Indians. Big engines will dig

(19:23):
big ditches, and thousands of people be running to and fro.
They will be building things, and there will be great
noise and confusion, and the earth will shake. I've seen it.
It's coming.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
That's so interesting. It is fascinating. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
But they made him take it down at the Museum
of Sites and Energy. People complained, well, that's not scientific,
you know, that's I said, mysticism. He was a profit
or whatever. So they got rid of that exhibit. But
I still lived in Oak Ridge and I've been going
from there. Gosh, how long has it been done? About
twenty years?

Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah, I mean he sounds a little bit like kind
of reminds me a little bit like somebody like Edgar Casey. Yep,
you know, the kind of the sleeping profit and being
in a trance and those type of things.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
And it looks like they still do a memorial John.
They have a John Hendricks Memorial prayer walk, a half
mile nature trail that tells the story of John Hendricks
in a beautiful outdoor setting. I know that's something new
since I've been there.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
So was the Bear Valley that's what it was called
before before it was called.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Ok. Yeah, that that different. Those areas that he mentioned there,
I've been to all those there. Scarborough was a community there.
Robertsville was where the another junior high school was. I
lived close to both middle schools at one time or another.
I didn't go to school Oakridge. I went to school
in Knox County. But yeah, all those places existed, and

(20:55):
that's where it was, and the railroad spur and all
that happened just exactly as he predicted it. And in fact,
some of the back end stuff of the plants is
on Bear Creek Valley Road in that area. And I
worked in Bear Creek Valley at a place had long
gone out of business called q SEP. It was a

(21:16):
quantum separator where they disposed of low level nuclear waste,
which included deer that they took from the area. They'd
have these hunts every year within the herd and you
had to get your deer checked for radiation, and any
that tested too hot they'd dispose of them. And there
was also body parts in there from Oakridge Hospital where

(21:39):
they'd use radioisodopes and things on them. So I'd worked
for a vendor that was in the building there but
it was spooky, you know. I'd walk down near that
incinerator area on Knights that they were doing burns and
you'd see, you know, carcasses of animals and body parts
and all kinds of stuff. And it's one of those
that it burned hot enough that it burned the smoke

(22:01):
and everything it didn't didn't put out supposed to zero pollution.
And then they sold to a French company and immediately
after the French people took over, they lost their license
to dispose of the low level waste. And I think
it just shut down. I don't know if there's anything
down there or not that's been that was back in
the eighties.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, I have never been up to Cariadge. I've never
checked it out.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
That's what I should take, like a trip out there
or something.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, it's interesting. Like I said, there's a They had
the piece bell there which was from the sister city
of Osaka that was sent you know, again as an
offering a piece because of the bombs that were made
in no Cariage that were used on Japan. Right, and
sits on top of a hill out there next to
the civic center. But the whole town always had that

(22:53):
atmosphere I mean growing up secrecy. This is during the
Cold War. I grew up in the South, born in
sixty three, so grew up in the sixties and seven,
and they still had all these billboards, you know, you know,
you don't know who's listening and things like that. So
there was still that air of secrecy. And another one
that you probably find interesting. You know about It's called

(23:15):
a conspiracy theory, but I know it's a conspiracy fact
project paper clip. You know about that one? Right?

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah, The US took German scientists. Instead of putting
them in prison or prosecuting them for war crimes, they
put them to work. Well, my dad was a scientist
to Donkridge National Laboratory. Excuse me. He worked right alongside
some of these guys that were just over from Germany.
And I remember growing up. I was in I think

(23:43):
seventh grade. I went home with a kid, the new
kid in town, and had a German name. I won't
repeat it here because I think he's a Knox County
Sheriff's deputy now, but it was over his house and
more downstairs. Back then, a lot of people had what
they called a rec room or a family room in
the basement. It was a rancher style house but with

(24:06):
a basement, and down in the basement there was a
rec room, so we can go down there and you know,
play with our g I Joe's and watch TV or whatever.
But one day he's like, Steve, come here. I want
to show you something. So he goes to the back
end of this rec room.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
He pushes on the wall and it's like in the seventies,
you know, the faux paneling and stuff, and it opens up,
and I thought, oh, okay, I got a bomb shelter.
We didn't have one, but a lot of post war houses,
cold War era houses did have one. People down the
street from where I grew up they had a bomb
shelter in their basement, and I thought, okay, he's going

(24:46):
to show me their their bomb shelter. We pushes the
wall open. You know, it didn't look like a wall,
but it opened up. He reaches in, flicks on a
light and Adam, the biggest collection of German war memorabilia
I've ever saying wow, was in this room, in like
cases and on the walls and stuff. And I said wow.

(25:07):
Let's call him Tom. I said wow, Tom, your dad
really takes his German memorabilia seriously. And he said, Steve,
you don't understand. And he tapped on a glass case
there that had an SS or loved off uniform. Minute
he said, this was my dad's uniform. And he's say,
you could have knocked me over with a feather. But

(25:29):
this was some guy. He worked out the plants. My
dad knew him, worked with him. So Operation Paperclip was
the thing. And a lot of them still had an
allegiance to the Fatherland, or at least fond memories of
their allegiance to the right.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, yeah, I would say so.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
And I mean, you know, everybody knew about the the
rocket scientists, right, Most people knew about that.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Verner von Braun. And you know that because I mean
that's not far from.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Where I'm you know, looking at hours an hour and
a half maybe from here to Huntsville, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
That's still used to be the Space and Rocket Center
they probably renamed that now. But went there as a kid,
that was amazing to see.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, you know, I went there as well, and you
know it's like they people knew about that, But I
don't think people knew about you know, some of the
other you know, they were they were working in the
nuclear field too, so that's interesting as well. I guess
they were working with you know, you don't hear you
don't hear about that too much about you know, like

(26:34):
some of the genetics stuff or the you know, the
c i A recruitment and these type of things, but
I haven't heard anything about the like, you know, working
in nuclear science, so that's interesting. Yeah, we started the
Manhattan Project in order to compete with the originally that

(26:54):
they were going to build a bomb first.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, it was it was a rice. I think the
Japanese were working on their version too, So whoever got
it first when he used it on everybody else, so
we could have all been speaking Japanese or German.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
That's that's true. That's true.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Well, we definitely, uh, I think we had the scientists,
you know, the Germans did not.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
They did not. I think they there was there was
things something.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
That they were doing that was not correct or that,
or they were focusing on something that focusing more on
one thing than I.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Think they were focusing more on delivery and we were
focusing on the payload or something like that.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
But yeah, yeah, the focus was in the wrong place.
And plus you know, I mean they had kicked out
all the Jewish scientists, so are people like Fermi whose
wife was Jewish, you know, figured out the figured out
that you first chain reaction. So we definitely had the
scientific the scientific powers we had over here.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Really.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, and you mentioned Werner on My dad met him.
He was out there the labs. And another little interesting
tidbit here, uh, my wife married to recently. She's a
direct descendant of Robert Goddard. He was another one of
my childhood heroes. Okay, he's buried here in Massachusetts. They've

(28:21):
got a Goddard Park, They've got a I think it's
a ball team or something called the Rockets. So the
influences it is felt far in Bright. I was messing
around here in the house one day I live in
New England now, and I saw one of these little
painted wood blocks like people have him, you know, outdoor
scents and stuff. There was one with Goddard and his
little frame rocket there, and I says, I've got Robert Goddard.

(28:44):
And she's like, you know who he is? And I'm
like yeah, She's like I'm related to him. So I'm
gonna go visit his grave and get some pictures in
the park here.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Did you go to h You've been to Roswell, I'm
assuming yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
So.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
I mean one of the things that people don't know
about Roswell is that the Goddard was actually there in
the thirties and he was shooting rockets up. That's where
he was shooting the rockets up. It was out there
in the desert around Roswell.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah, and there's some other people out there not too
far from Roswell. You had el Ron Hubbard, Jack Parsons.
They were out there, and I think there were some
other people with them. They were trying to recreate Alster
Crowley's Babylon working.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, the Babylon working.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, And I think that was in forty.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Six Marjorie Cameron.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah. And then the next year forty seven, I think
I've got the date right here. That was when Kenneth
Arnold has his sighting not too far from Europe in
Washington State, and that kind of ushered in the UFO,
the modern UFO ere anyway, And I've even heard people
conjecture that whatever Parsons was up to out there without

(30:05):
Crowley working, that he created some kind of tear rift
in the actual fabric of a continuer of time and
space or whatever, and that's how these things started coming in.
Makes as much sense as some of the other theories
I've heard. Any thoughts on.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
That, well, it's one that I've heard several times. You know,
I don't I don't know. I mean, I believe in
a spiritual world, so I would you know, it's not
withinout the realm of possibility.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah. I've had a couple of pastors that are from
sound the so far Messianic ministries have been on this
show a few times, and one of them, Pastor Eric,
has written some books about UFOs, but he's of the
school thought that their nephelin that there demons or some
sort of dem on an entity. Interesting. You know, I'm

(31:04):
invite all opinions here, and I don't invite people here
to defend their opinion, but just to present them and ask,
letess listeners to keep it open mind. But he's got
some interesting theories that's scripturally based and sound in that regard,
So again, who knows.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, I used to feel that way about the subject.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
You know. It was a very you know, very much
for me. It was something that made sense.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
I don't discount it necessarily as a possibility, but I
think there might be a lot more going on to
the UFO phenomenon or you know, even with cryptids or
ghosts or what have you, than just maybe it being
this like Nephilim or something like that.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
Yeah, it's definitely a mixture of things. But it is
interesting as far as like the Jack Parsons the Babylon Working,
if you know that that there was, I mean.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I think that Kenneth Anger kind of played with that
a little bit in what was it the uh, what
was the one with the where he basically it was
the Babylon Working.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Was it Lucid Horizon?

Speaker 2 (32:23):
I think, yeah, the.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
One that had Jimmy Page in it that Bobby did
the soundtrack too. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think he
definitely kind of played played around that idea, tried to
like at least promote that idea.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Bobby was a member of the Charles Manson's crowd for
people that aren't familiar with that, and that all ties
together too, there's and you get into the people that
were up in Laurel Canyon and that whole thing. Did
you ever have Dave?

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, never, never had met Dave mcgow went on. He
passed away before, and.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
I've heard that he was given cancer by some three
letter agency to get him to shut up because he
was getting too close to the truth, you think, So
that's what I've heard. I can't say one way or
the other. But he did point out some stuff that
you know, you didn't really think about that all of
a sudden, all these kids just showed up in this

(33:20):
certain area in California, and basically every single one of them,
from Jim Morrison to Mama Cass to the rest of
the mamas and the papas and all these people they
were children of the military. Frank Zappa, all their parents
were military. And then here they all are when this

(33:43):
hippie and peace and free love and LSD and all
that going on. Supposedly kind of what day was in
that that the counter that counter culture was started by
maybe a three letter agency to counteract the real counter
culture and to steer them all off into something else,
which you know, again, after what I've learned about Operation

(34:05):
Paper equip I don't doubt anything and all the stuff
going up there at Wonderland Labs, and think Jared Ledo
lives there now. He made a house out of it,
but made the most films of any studio in Hollywood
that hardly anybody saw. It was propaganda films and supposedly
MK Ultra and that type programming stuff. They did stuff

(34:29):
for that too. Depend on who you talk to.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, you talked about weird scenes, weird scenes inside the cavern,
into the canyon. I'm sorry rather yeah, the Laurel Canyon scene. Yeah,
that one I've not read. But have you read a lot?
Familiar with it's premise? But have you programmed to kill?
Is that one? Have you ever read that one?

Speaker 1 (34:51):
I think so? Well, who's the author?

Speaker 2 (34:55):
David Allen?

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Oh okay, yeah, I have that one, but I've never
gotten around to reading it. Yeah, I was talking about
that's an interesting book.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
That's a very interesting I've.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Got digital copy of that one. I've got thousands and
thousands of eight books in my Kindle library. That's that's
one I need to read right away. As one of those.
I bought it and then just kind of forgot about it.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
And as what happens, Yeah, we we did.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
We actually did like a little you know, when my
My Now co host s Fiel.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Who you talk to?

Speaker 3 (35:27):
He introduced me to that, and we did like an
actual especially when he first joined the show and we
did it, we did like kind of like the book
report thing on it. And I mean that's uh, you know,
he what he what he talks about in that book.
He talks about like serial killers in the eighties and
like how pervasive it was at the time. And he

(35:52):
looks at that in light of like the operation uh
Phoenix program, the Phoenix program in Vietnam. You know how
there was kind of this really like ranching up a
strategy of tension or you know, really it's like psychological
warfare really is what it is, and like how serial

(36:13):
killing was used as a form of like kind of
like psychological warfare in the eighties to keep everybody on edge.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
I mean, it's got some interesting you know, there's some
interesting things. I think he gives Henry Lee Lucas way
too much credit, but there's some other interesting things that
this whole thing about the John Benney Ramsey case that
he goes into.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
I'm going to read tonight, now.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think you'd really like it.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
I mean, you know, but I think he I think
he almost slips just a little bit into like the
kind of satanic panic stuff, like you know, somebody like
Mari Terry, like the ultimate evil you know, would have
slipped into uh. But but I mean it's I mean,
it gives you some thought.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Uh Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
There's another book along that vein by a man named
Tom O'Neill, Chaos Charles Manson the CIA and the Secret
History of the Sixties, and it kind of follows that
same thought path there.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah. Yeah. And of course, like you know, Mary Terry,
the ultimately.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah ultimate eeval. And there's a guy on YouTube he's
like a I want to say, he's like a gardener,
like a professional gardener or gardener and arborist or something
like that. And he won his channel. He started going
in and pulling all that apart, going to places like
Untermeyer Park and h interviewing survivors of the Burklewitz supposed

(37:43):
the killings. These people will say that it wasn't Burkelewitz.
They saw burkle Witz and he wasn't the shooter, but
he was a part of it. And he apparently even
told people that he was at the scene of those crimes,
but he wasn't the trigger man in all of them.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, I mean, I believe that I think that that's
entirely possible.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
And Marie Terry, Uh, he tied Manson into all that
that they developed what I consider a good like a
solid lake between the Son of Sam and.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
He had also the whole the the really rich guy
that lived out on a Long Island that.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Was kind of is also associated with it, that was murdered. Yeah,
I know who you're talking about, the movie producer Rubin
I think was his name, And you know, he was
out there having those like really big like.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Basically orgies and his you know, his house on Long
Island and which I kind of might I think kind
of like the Eyes White Shut Cubric's Ie White Shut
was kind of an attempt to kind of depict that
or was inspired by Roy Raydon. Yeah, but you know,
he was murdered and then Terry had brought all that

(39:07):
into it too.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, And Terry had some interesting stuff about that where
he went out to the murder site and found the
spot where right and I think he was shotgunned and
he crawled up under the bush and found a bible
stuck in this bush and he said, how did the
police miss this? And then I forget what passage it
was open to, but it was very eerie because it

(39:29):
kind of tied end all that and he talked about
when he was crawling under there, the ground was still
damp with whatever biological fluid that Rory Righton had left behind.
So it's scary to think about.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
But yeah, well, something to add to all that, you know,
I think that could lend some real credence to not
just Burklewitz doing it alone, although he probably did committ
at least one of them, is the fact, you know,
like now we've got these like you know, these these
groups like order the nine Angles and similar groups that

(40:04):
like do operate that way. Yeah, and that caused like
this kind of like just do you know, cause chaos
just for the point of causing chaos, And that's essentially
what the you know, the Son of Sam murderers were doing.
It's not any different than what we're seeing now with
something like Ordering nine Angles. So I mean, I think

(40:26):
it gives you some food for thought. I just think
that the city, just like the Atlanta child murders, I
think the City of New York really wanted to just
kind of kind of box it in and you know,
get an arrest and get it done, get it over with.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Yeah, I think so. But yeah, I remember Marie Terry
Young pulled up John Carr and those people in Minnesota,
which tied into the rlest Perry slang, and Berklewitz said
that she was followed, stocked, and killed or something like
that all the way from I believe it. I know
it's not Dakota, my North Dakota. And uh that was

(41:06):
another one of those that murdered on campus. I can't
remember the university there, but violated in the church with
an altar candle, Uh, murdered and then spread out like
the stations of the Cross. You know, there's there's definitely
definitely a Satanic angle to all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Yeah, and if you watch the documentary about Marie's Terry,
you know that they they figured out who the person
was that killed cars.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Uh. Manny Grossman is a doctor and think of if
he come on YouTube looked for Manny Grossman. He's the
one that's looking into all this and up down the
case and uh, fascinating guy and he gets out and
visits these places.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, the states happened.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Well, yeah, if you watch the end of that documentary,
I mean they had that guy cornered and he was
in the seventies by then, and he shot himself, so
they knew who they know who did that. It was
the security guy that apparently was not suspected back in
the seventies or sixties or seventies or whenever that happened.

(42:14):
So but I mean, you know, it's not too far
to it's not too it's not too far fatch to
think that a cult like that in the seventies, that
they that at least one of them could have gone
off the rails and decided to start killing people.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
And I think it was Marie Terry that made a
link between all that and Charles Manson and the processed
chart of the final judgment, right right, those guys. So
it's it's it runs deep in nationwide, and I've heard
it called a big spider web, or a whole warrant
of rabbit holes, or an octopus within a thousand tentacles.

(42:51):
But I mean, it's easy to connect the dots backwards
in any situation. But a lot of that makes sense
to me.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you seen the Have you seen
the octopus documentary on uh on Netflix? Have you watched that?

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Oh? None watched that? My wife and I watched a
lot of stuff on there. Yeah, that one's I'd like
to delve into. That one that's on our list of
stuff to watch.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
So you know, we had that's one that uh well,
I'll say, how I got, you know, these various conspiracy
theories and stuff that I've been interested in for a
while come from when I was a teenager in the nineties.
There was this book called fifty Greatest Conspiracies by Jonathan
vancn yep, and h which was actually cool to have

(43:41):
Jonathan Vancin on my show a few years ago. But
you know, it's one of those books that you would
buy like getting like the bookstore or whatever, and it
had really had everything in it. It had that whole
son of the same thing we just talked about, the
James Shelby Downard stuff, uh, stuff about Charles.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Manson, you know.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
And also one of the things that it had in
it was this this Danny castellarro murders the Octopus Conspiracy,
which now has been put up as a you know,
a Netflix documentary about it now because everything's got to
have a Netflix documentary.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
It was a good documentary.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
They're putting out some good stuff and they're digging around
and finding some fairly obscure cases and making multi power
documentaries about it. I love something so much on it recently.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
But I had the privilege of speaking to Ken Thomas
about it on my show, and Ken, if you're familiar
with Ken Thomas, he passed away just last year.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
He and Jim Keith wrote a book about this in
the nineties and went through a couple editions after that.
Jim Keith, you know, he passed away mysteriously kind of
and getting a knee and infection and burning man.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
UH. But you know this it had to do with Danny.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
Castellaria, who was this reporter that was looking into this
conspiracy with this inslaw company that had produced this UH
computer program. And you found out, you know, the computer
program through the Department of Justice, it was actually being

(45:27):
used by CIA as a backdoor channel to spy on
systems because they would get countries to buy this computer
program and then it had a backdoor to where the
CIA could spy on or whoever in usay maybe could
spy on UH on these countries.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
And so it had to involve also.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Like this this Indian reservation in the middle of you know,
southern California, where they were doing like all these weapons
and missile weird missile tests out there, and you know,
it even ties into like Iran Contra and the October
Surprise in nineteen eighty and a lot of people are

(46:10):
a lot of people were kind of upset about the
documentary because that I know the people that I know
that were upset with the documentary because they were kind
of mad that Ken Thomas was never like our Jim
Keith never.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
You know, mentioned in it.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
But Ken Thomas, you know, he did a lot, a
ton of work on that. He actually had Danny Castellaro's
archives because he worked at the University of Missouri. So
I mean, that's a really interesting story. The Danny Cavali
he was mysteriously murdered, and that's what sparked off the

(46:48):
whole like, you know, looking into the conspiracy theory surrounding
all that.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
And I see a copy of it here, The Octopus's
Secret Government and the Death of Danny Castelario's book to
check that out. Love all these reading recommendations. And I
used to work with a guy that had worked at
the Nessay and he's like, basically everything you hear it's true,

(47:14):
And a lot that you haven't heard about. It's true,
and I don't doubt that.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Yeah, I don't doubt it either.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
But switch gears for a minute here. One of the
last times I was on your show, and it's been
a while, there was another wave or a flap of
phantom clown sightings. I remember we just got the absolute
giggles over an article that somebody had dug up where
the police went to this park where kids claim they've

(47:46):
been chased by these evil clowns, and they found an
abandoned shack and inside it was clown paraphernalia. But it
never did elaborate and we were pontificating what would it be,
you know, rubber bat, the squeaky nose, a big pair
of shoes constitutes clown paraphernalia. But that's one of those

(48:07):
things that just seems to happen in waves. I remember.
I think the first dance this was back in the
seventies and maybe the eighties. Lauren Coleman wrote about it
in These Mysterious America. It was one of his early books.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Yeah, Laura Coleman was one of the first ones that
people to do anything on like the Phantom Clowns because
it was happening in Boston, and it started.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Not too far from where I'm at in Boston, and
then suddenly it's like they were just everywhere.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yeah, and especially in twenty sixteen. Twenty sixteen, it had
this weird resurgence right in the middle of the presidential election.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Of that year, which was kind of fitting. Yeah, I mean,
there was a lot of like it was.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
It was weird because there's a lot of stress going
on in the country at that time, and then all
of a sudden, people are seeing like these weird like
phantom clowns, which were never really explained.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
It was just this thing that was, uh, you know
on the news.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
A lot where people said, oh I was in this.
I think there was one in like South Carolina where
uh they were these these kids were saying that they
have been chased by a clown behind this apartment complex
and then they go out there and there's no clown,
you know. And of course you could have had like
the whole like the whole like copycat effect going on,
but eighties it was really weird, like it was like

(49:36):
groups of clowns driving like these or something.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, yeah, some kind of noticeable vehicle and then neither
the vehicle nor the clowns.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Could be located, right, Yeah, never never found at all.
And it's kind of weird that, like once that Coleman
writes about it and puts it out there, then all
of a sudden it starts happening in other places too.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
And about twenty sixteen, you gotta admit, I mean that.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Was like that was the year of the clown and
I know people on Facebook were putting pictures up of
clown hunting license and things like that. And I think
there was a college student, an exchange student from I
think he was from Japan or somewhere, had showed up
at the wrong address for a Halloween party, didn't speak English,
was dressed as a clown, and the guy came out

(50:27):
and shot him in his carport.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Oh I remember that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yeah, So I'm sure there's mistaken things like that, But
I've often wondered why clowns, And then you know, I
was thinking, like, well, Lauren Coleman pointed out that dating
back to the Children's Miracle plays of the Crusader's time,
the clown makeup, that's where it originated. It represented the devil.

(50:52):
So that makes a creepy sense there, Yeah, you think
about that. If you look at the say, the MIBs
and phantom clowns, the black eyed kids, it all kind
of goes together. The men in black like, Okay, well
we're going to send these witnesses of these people out
to intimidate witnesses. Well, they'll drive nice cars and wear

(51:14):
nice clothes. But then they the cars they drive although
look brand new or long out of style. Same with
the clothing, and they're weird. They talk funny. Okay, that
didn't work. What do we try this time? We love
send clowns. Everybody loves clowns, but these are creepy clowns
that come out of the woods and try to get people. No,
that didn't work. About kids, everybody loves kids, but then

(51:37):
it's creepy kids with black eyes that knock on your
door and then disappear and stuff.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
I think that there's trickster. Yeah, there's definitely the trickster
aspect to it. I think that's a huge aspect. I
think that there's like a kind of co creation going
on where this phenomenon, whatever it is, are If you
want to use the word the other, which I think

(52:04):
is a pretty appropriate word, you know, what are we
talking about when we say that, are we talking about
we talk about fairies? Gin I mean, you know those
are probably just words for all for the same thing.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
It's an umbrella they all fall under. I've got research
into the faith theory in regards to missing people and
their reports. Adam like back in the seventeen eighteen hundreds,
he's from Ireland to Celtic countries where the faithfolk were
and maybe still are almost religion. They talked about little
men in a horseless carriage coming down out of the sky. Well,

(52:39):
that's a UFO encounter in there era r They talked
about these one type of aid that are harry giants
that come out. Okay, there's your Bigfoot. I believe it
all goes under the umbrella of the Fay. You know,
you've got different pixies and gnomes and all that. There's
like a hierarchy there and people that believe in Bigfoot
and believe in you UFOs and all this little snicker

(53:02):
at you if you start talking about the Fay. But
I think that's a part of the bigger picture of
the umbrella that all this other stuff falls under.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Maybe I think I think, in my personal opinion, I
think that This isn't something that's coming from a distant universe.
This is something or galaxy or planet or whatever. I
think it's something that's already here and that has been
here at least as long as we have, maybe even longer,
and that interacts with us periodically. I mean, you could
go as even as simple as say like, oh, it's

(53:31):
like a spiritual world.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
But do you think that interaction it's just it's something
that it does for part of the expression, but shits
and giggles or is there a purpose there. I've also
heard that some of these entities they feed on your fear,
and the whole idea is so they can get whatever
they sustenance or whatever it is they get from that.

(53:54):
And then I've heard from a biblical biblical perspective that
a lot of these are abductions and things to carry
on their bloodline. Again, that's the Nephilin theory he talks
about in the Bible, where the fallen angels of Nephilm
came down and made it basically with the daughters of
man and produced this race of people. Well, maybe to

(54:15):
continue that race they need something we have that they
don't have even heard a conjecture that that's our very essence,
our soul. They don't have souls, and that's why they
have to interact with man. And then that kind of
takes you into alien abduction and implantation and probing and
all that stuff. So it's again, it is a many

(54:36):
hold of rabbit warren there if you will, and one
trail leads to this and that. But Charles fort once wrote,
one measures a circle beginning anywhere. So I think if
you start in one place and you keep going, you'll
eventually come right back around and without any answers. And
I don't know about you, but I gave up looking
for answers years and years ago. I'm looking for the

(54:56):
next set of questions. And one of the best ways
I've ever heard described the paranormal most apropos I think
Sah asked Catherine, where'd the road go? He said, It's
like you're trying to put together this thousand piece jigsaw puzzle,
but you don't have the box lid to even see
what the picture is supposed to look like. And then
once you get into it, you find out that some joker,

(55:20):
maybe the cosmic joker that we talked about, has mixed
a dozen puzzles together, so there are some pieces that
don't fit anywhere in the picture you're working on. And
that I thought that was so profound.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yes, Riah is quite a he's quite a thinker.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Well, let's go what I want to What I want
to say about the phenomena about like how it reflects
back to us what we want to see, or maybe
that there's a co.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Creation going on.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Is that I found it interesting with the black Eyed
kids phenomenal because I got into that pretty pretty hard.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
I had a black eyed kid experience back then. Oh yeah,
I've ever been in my life.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Tell me about that.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
And it was two little girls in a parking lot
at two o'clock in the morning. Three o'clock in the morning.
Shouldn't have been anything friten about it, but it was
almost a demonic energy. And I've got accounts of it
on YouTube where I tell that story. Well, I find
there was something there. I don't know. Thinking back on it,
I don't even think it was too little girls. I
think it's whatever this entity or entities was, that was

(56:21):
how it was presenting itself to me. I think it was.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Beyond that, right, maybe trying to get you to let
your guard down. Yeah, I find it.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
I find it interesting with the whole motif of like
the blood that totally black eye you know that you know,
all you see is black has been something that's been
around like that's honestly something that like I've seen it
used to depict demons on television.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
But it's been used a lot, and it was a
motif that was used a lot in the X Files. Remember,
because you had the black oil that would infect people,
would you know, their eyes would completely turn black?

Speaker 3 (56:59):
And and X Files was you know, that came out
in like nineteen ninety three, and that was all throughout
the nineties, and then all of a sudden you start
getting these black eyed kids stories and people start seeing
these black eyed kids. And so that had already been
like a popular culture tell you know, television and movie
motif for several years by then, and then all of

(57:20):
a sudden, people start seeing that black you know, those
those pitch black eyes, you know, and you can also
think of like the eyes of a shark or something
like that. You know, just like that, what would you
think of like somebody's eyes completely black? You think like
you're pure evil? Right, I mean, that would be the
connotation of that.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Yeah, there was some serial killer that was in prison
waiting to be executed andrew somebody, and the documentary I watched,
the guy talked about how this guy had the blackest
eyes he had ever seen, and that's that's frightening to
think about it.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, and I mean I've heard that.
I think I heard that about gay cy too, you know.
But like, but also, you know, another fascinating one is,
you know this this co creation stuff is like something
like slender Man. I think that that's like a perfect
point of that because we know that, yeah, we know slender.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Man is it's completely made up.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
It's a creepy pasta. They're starting to be like the
Rake and things like that. Then there are sightings of it,
and they had the little girls that we're going to
kill another little girl as a sacrifice to sit slender Man,
and kind of gets the Tulpa effect there. But then
I was mentioning that one time, and the person I
was on the show was said, well, but if you

(58:38):
can create things by thinking about them, how come every
year at Christmas and Easter there aren't creepy Santa clauses
popping out of the woods or easter bunnies in the spring.
Maybe there are who.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
Knows, well, you know, you hear that, you know, Greg
Bicktip tells the story about this person that was interviewed
by a UFO investigator and the what was left out
of the person's story was that they pulled up to
their house and there was a large anthropomorphic rabbit in

(59:11):
the driveway. Uh so, yeah, you hear about those type
of things. I've heard about people, you know, people's young
kids seeing.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Seeing like Disney characters the basement.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Yeah. Yeah, so it's like, you know, whatever is happening
there in that interaction with something that I guess has
no physical form, It just assumes what it thinks you
wanted to see, but you end up being terrified anyway.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
I don't kind of like the marshmallow man in the
original Ghostbusters to step off.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Marshmallows right right, Yeah, exactly exactly, pick the pick the
image of your destroyer.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
I love it. We're just we're all over the road
and that's that's where I'm most comfortable. Never good at
picking my lane and staying in it. But yeah, there's
there's so much stuff out there. But I think there
is some kind of cosmic tricks or something out there
that just maybe we're an alien ant farm or something
like that, and it's just doing stuff to tease us
and the torment us and we're sea monkeys and it's

(01:00:15):
shining lights at us, and we're going to and what's that?
What's going on over here?

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Occasionally it shakes the it shakes the bottle. Yeah, that's
how that's how it goes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
And you know, the characters, the cartoon characters and stuff.
Then that ties back to the Satanic Panic. McMartin preschool
and a lot of those kids telling that they, you know,
went in a tunnel and they came up in another
place and Mickey Mouse and Chuck Norris were there, you know,
and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
But what better way, I guess to discredit even a
child as being a witness or thing would be to
have these people in Mickey Mouse suits or somebody disguised
as Chuck Norris or I don't know that. That was
an interesting time. I was on a show it's been
a few years ago. We talked about the Satanic Panic
and I dug up some of those old John Todd tapes.

(01:01:07):
There's copies of them floating around the Internet, and those
were wild, right. I heard those in church back in
I guess it was the late seventies. Wednesday Night they
did a series several weeks where they played those tapes
and I remember just scaring the hell out of me,
But it didn't scare me away from the stuff it

(01:01:28):
talked about, you know that I went home and I
played my albums backwards and I looked for all the
symbology and stuff. So it had quite the opposite effect.
And I've had other people tell me that too. You know,
it scared me, but it fascinated me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Well it's almost like it's almost like that stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Okay, so that like that like really strenuous evangelical Christian
sensationalistic stuff like that that has.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
That won't name any names, but Bob Larson.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
Yeah, yeah, Bob Marson has has has the opposite effect
of like, oh, there's like this whole world of weird
stuff that I could get into and like that, like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Yeah, I look at.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
All this right right right? Oh? You mean like if
they had if they hadn't told you about Alistair Crowley
in the Sunday in the the John Todd stuff, then
you probably wouldn't even even known who he was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Yeah, and in the way that that ties back into
the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and led Zeppelin. And
there's a guy and I think he's in New Zealand.
He's written a book called The led Zeppelin Curse. And
I tried to get him on a show, but it
was some kind of weird time difference. He was like
a day and a half ahead of me or something
that we never could get together. But I've read that

(01:02:50):
book and it makes a lot of sense, and especially
that I think it's a fiscal graffiti, the one where
it's a live concert film from Madison Square Garden. He said,
watch what pages The song remains the same. Watch what
Page is doing when he's sawing on the guitar with
the violinbo He says, he turned and he points to
the four wins he's calling he's doing an occult ritual

(01:03:13):
on stage and using the power of the audience to
make these things happen and manifest and stuff. And I
went back and watched it, and there it is. You know,
I didn't i'd seen that. I went saw that at
midnight movies when I was in high school, but didn't
even think about it. But there he is. And then
you know, we find out he was so into Crowley
that he bought what's the how bollskin, bleskin, whatever the

(01:03:38):
name of it is. He owned that he couldn't get
the occult books that he wanted, so he opened his
own bookstore in London. He owns a lot of Crowley's
artifacts and things, and then there's all this alleged influence
in the music and stuff. So it it makes for
an interesting argument anyway where there's any truth to it

(01:04:00):
on it. I've said that about John Todd, that if
even a tenth of what he said was true, and
a lot of it has proved to be true, then
there's some wild, wild stuff going on out there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Yeah, okay, step is okay, take a little break, Sure, okay, Sorry,
no problem.

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
Now there was no was w Now there was no.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Sorry about that, No worries.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
I've got a kind of truckers bladder. I can go
for hours, but uh, no problem, and uh join us
back again after that short intermission. Of the music you
heard there during the break was Shutters by LEEGI the
first floor audio. And we're back with Adam saying we
can We'll continue where we were there. Adam sure.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Yeah, so we were.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
We were in the midst of talking about John Todd
and the tanic panic andstionalists, uh, sensationalists like just lost the.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Guy's name Larson, Bob Larson.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
Bob Larson. Yeah, basically made a whole career out of that.
And he was one of those guy. I used to
listen to his radio show, and uh, it was a
high theater and I think, you know, he was trying
to deliver a message, but I think a lot of
those callers were actors, because he'd have somebody call in
and this happened, and that happened and then. And I

(01:07:32):
don't deny that any of this exists. In fact, I
believe quite the opposite that it does. We're in the
mists of spiritual warfare all the time. But every single
person that called in, suddenly a demon would take over
and start speaking to him, and he would cast the
demon out. It was scary, It was frightening stuff. Even
if it was like Christian Science Theater three thousand or whatever.

(01:07:52):
You know, there was a.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
Guy that there was a guy that actually he's a
call Bob Larson, like prank call him, but.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
He would act like he was serious.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
And I'm sure Larson just laughed in him and no
offense to Bob. Like I said, I'm a fan of
the show. Uh, the man's a preacher. If he's doing
what God has led him to believe he feels, then
more power to him. But continue.

Speaker 3 (01:08:16):
Yeah, Well, this guy that he used to call in,
he was like brother Richard or something like that, or
not brother Richard.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
It was something.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
It was some ridiculous name, but he would call he
would call in, and uh, I think he was actually
like he was an old lady and she was worried
that he is. The old lady was worried that her
grandson was gay after he took him to Gay Day
at Disneyland or something.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
It's it's silly, but.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
Of course grandma that I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
That would call in, that would call into Bob Larson. Yeah,
so what's your thoughts on that, Steve?

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
What you I mean, it seem uh like I think
we both you know, we both believe in the spiritual world.
I mean, I definitely do.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
I'm you know, I don't know if I really want
to attribute everything to like demonic forces, But I mean,
is that where you're kind of going with that?

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
I think they're out there. I said, I don't deny
the existence. I don't think everything is demonic, But then
I think there's a lot of stuff that is or
people that are humans that are operating under either some
sort of evil force. There would be at a demonic
oppression or possession. Okay, yeah, And another great way that

(01:09:46):
I have heard the supernatural explain. My brother has passed
away now, but he was an evangelical minister, and he
wasn't sensationalist like Barb blaarers and anything, but that was
he had a deliverance ministry and that was one of
the things they would do. They would cast demons out
of people. I never stuck around for that part of
the service, my thought being, well, you know in the Bible,

(01:10:09):
when Christ cast them out, they went into swines, and
the swines jumped off a cliff into the sea. And
I thought, if those things come out of there, they're
going to go somewhere, and I don't want to pick
up any attachments, so I would high tail it when
he did those. But he had stories at him that
would absolutely curl your hair of stuff that he'd come
up against. And I believe it's very real. And I

(01:10:30):
was talking to him one time about the supernatural, and
he said, well, the way I look at that, he said,
what we consider the natural, all our laws of time
and space and physics and all that, those are man's laws.
But all this that we consider the natural was spoken
forth by God out of the supernatural. So of course

(01:10:50):
there's going to be things that we don't understand and
we can't explain. And that made a lot of sense
to me. I've thought he was going to, you know,
just poo poo everything and say no, no, no, but
he agreed that sometimes there's stuff happens that you just
can't explain. Even my father, a scientist, they would have
results in the lab, sometimes in our grade national laboratory,

(01:11:11):
where something would happen under strict lab control conditions that
they couldn't reproduce it. They don't know why it happened,
yet it happened. They observed it, but it wasn't repeatable,
some sort of anomalous result. He said, you know, there's
all kinds of stuff we can't explain, but it was
kind of the same things. You know, the laws that
we've made up, we made them up to fit things

(01:11:33):
and to measure things. But it doesn't necessarily whatever it
is out there, it doesn't abide by those laws all
the time. So again, I think there's a lot more
out there than we're aware of. Maybe there will be
scientific explanations. You know, they've found since I was in school,
they've added another element to the periodic table and things

(01:11:54):
like that, and animals and things like that. They discovering
new species all the time in the Amazon, and look
at the Mariana Trench and places like that. Who knows
what's down there, And it's got to be some huge
love crafting thing to be able to withstand those pressures
that you have that many miles under the water. So
if that thing comes up and comes on land, it's

(01:12:14):
going to be a superpowered I.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Think likes down there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Yeah, he who cannot be named, and I don't wondered
about that. What's your thoughts on Lovecraft and the Necronomicon
and all that. Supposedly you know, he invented the whole thing,
but if you think about it, I mean it's got
spells and things in there. It was written by whether
the mad Arab or whatever, And I think he was

(01:12:42):
tapping into something greater than he was, or he was
absolutely the greatest weird horror fiction writer bar none ever
any thoughts on Lovecraft.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
And well, I mean that's what Kenneth Grant thought, you know,
Kenneth Grant thought that, uh, all the Lovecraft stuff was
essentially real, like it was like type typhony basically, like
it was like the typhony in magic or whatever. The
Kenneth Grant, you know, the kind of system that he
based off of Crowleys.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
It was all kind of tied together. And yeah, they
had Catulu Khan and the HP Lovecraft Film Festival and
that was a trip. A couple of times I tended.
I meant Vincent Price's daughter Victoria, and that was just
that was a good time when they had those Catula cons.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
I think that maybe Lovecraft, if he tapped into anything
he tapped into maybe he's like, you know, because he's
from he was from New England, er and there's a
lot of that kind of weird mythology about New England.
But there's always something in the woods, there's always something
watching you. I think it comes from the the settlement

(01:13:59):
period where the Puritans were. You know, it was either
if it wasn't the natives, Americans are going to kill you.
Something out there was going to harm you. And I
think that he kind of taught I think he kind
of tapped into that kind of old tradition of fear
and put that into his right and primal.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
Fear and was able to articulate it. He's very loquacious.
He's hard to follow sometimes, gelatinous blobs and all this.
But uh, and you'll love this. Uh. My wife's a
big Lovecraft fan and fans of all things h grim
and gory. When we got married, we had a service.

(01:14:38):
We got married at Lovecraft's grave in Providence, Rhode Island,
and it had to be a secret ceremony. We tried
to do it legally and they wouldn't stand for it.
They're like, well, you can rent our chapel, but we
usually only rented out, you know, grieving families or whatever
for But we got married at at Lovecraft's grave and
also a Swan Point cemetery where he's buried. That where

(01:15:01):
Poe proposed to I can't remember who his wife's name
was or if they were ever married, but uh, Elizabeth,
I think Poe proposed to her there. So we went there.
I proposed to her at one point, and then we
came back. We had a like a universal Unitarian minister

(01:15:21):
that like, Okay, I'm going to do it, but we're
allowed to do it in such a way that we
can't get caught. So yeah, we were. We set our
vows at Lovecraft's grave.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Oh nice.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
Yeah, I think I've gotten down to UH to Providence
to see that, which would wouldn't cool to see.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Yeah. I love Rhode Island. It's it's a trip. When
I moved here, I actually flew into UH. It's just
outside of Providence of L. H. Green I thanks to
the airport there, and it's just flying in It's just
amazing because I've been in the desert for a year,
and then prior to that, I had been in the
Pacific Northwest, and then that I lived in Las Vegas.
So I've put my years in in the desert. But

(01:16:05):
flying into Rhode Island there from flew out of Albuquerque,
and I was supposed to fly to Chicago and then
to Providence, but something happened. My flight was delayed. They
flew me from Albuquerque to Phoenix, so I had to
go backwards and start from there. Spent the night in
the airport in Phoenix, and then went from Phoenix to Reagan,

(01:16:28):
d C. And then to LH. Green and Rhode Island,
but made it on time. I was supposed to be
here at three o'clock in the morning. I didn't get
here at about three o'clock in the afternoon. Was getting
married that day, but we still had time to get
to Rhode Island and made everything happen.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Nice. It sounds like quite an epic journey.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
Yeah, it was an adventure, but I was sweating it
there for a while, especially you know, having to go
to Phoenix to start. It's like there was that saying
in East Tennessee that anywhere you wanted to go you
had to go to Atlanta to start, and that's true
anywhere I've ever flown to of it, even overseas, and
stuff had to fly from Noxle to Atlanta and then
I mean, I guess you could go to Charlotte or

(01:17:11):
or somewhere like that, but it was easy to hub
out of Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Yeah, that's the big major hub.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
I do think.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
I do think that Lovecraft's apped into something. You know
that that basically all horror I.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Think, you know works on the fear of the unknown.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
But I think his especially and you got to think
about how much he's really inspired people, you know since then,
guys like Stephen King.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
I mean Stephen King's like a big one.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Yeah, yeah, he cites Lovecraft. Is I think his biggest
influence was Lovecraft. And there was a contest he had
years and years ago where he would start a story
and invite people to finish it, and then you could
win a prize or something, and wanted the story starters
was I think it was just the titles Lovecraft's Pillow

(01:18:04):
And you think about that, what if somebody found the
pillow that Lovecraft slept on and you slept on it?
Would you dream of all these horrific creatures and tentacles
and the old gods and all that interesting the idea
for a story, I think yeah. And as far as

(01:18:30):
the horror stuff goes, do you think that where you
have these cases we talked about some of the creepypastas
and things like that. Do you think it's it's art
imitating life or life imitating art or a mixture both.
I know we talked about, you know, the tupa aspect,
But is it possible that just by thinking of something
that I'll point back to, I can't remember the man's

(01:18:52):
name William Gibson. I think he wrote the Shadow dime
novel stories and radio plays. Walter gives somebody like that
he wrote the Shadow. Anyway. He lived in the East
Village somewhere in New York, and he had multiple typewriters,

(01:19:16):
like six typewriters set up, and he would go from
one typewriter to another to another, so he never got
writer's block. He always had something he could write on.
Turned out literally hundreds of thousands of these words for
the radio scripts and the stories from the pulps about
the Shadow. And he was having a dinner party one
time and the guest said, up in the upper loft

(01:19:37):
of the thing, they saw somebody dress as the Shadow.
He had the black drape code and the scarf and
the slouch hat. Lamont Cranston was the name of the
character who was the Shadow. And they said, oh, that's
that's great. You know, for your dinner party, you hired
somebody to dress up like the Shadow. And he said no,
he said, whatever that is, it's here. He said, I
see that thing. He called it. I think a mental

(01:19:59):
impression something like that. He said, I literally put my blood,
sweat and tears into these stories and I put so
much emotion in these and then writing all these things
that it came forth and now it's there. And interestingly enough,
that same I think as the brownstone that he lived in,

(01:20:19):
it's also reportedly haunted even after he'd moved out there.
It was in uh one of the places hands Holster
Holzer investigated, and I told the guy, I can't remember
his name right now, Darkness on the Edge Town, David Schrader.
He was doing the Holzer Files for TV and I

(01:20:41):
was I remember if I was the interviewing hammer. He
was interviewing me, but we were on something together and
I mentioned that. He's like really, He said, you know,
we'll go look into that definitely. But I never heard
what came of that, So I think that happens. What
was the Philip Did you ever read it?

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
The experiment? Oh yeah, oh yeah, Well I'll say that
is University of North Carolina.

Speaker 3 (01:21:04):
I think I'll say this about like the co creation stuff,
you know, the aspect of it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:11):
I think that what you're dealing with is like kind
of like a feedback loop.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
I think that it's inspired by things like popular culture
or pathology.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
Or those things, and then people see these entities or
whatever they are.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
And they're inspired by that and it's like a big
feedback loop. Yeah, the whole tope of thing is extraordinarily
fascinating to me. Have you ever heard of the You
ever heard of the Highgate Vampire case?

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
You ever heard of that?

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
I have but refreshed my memory and that of the listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
So the Highgate Vampire was the series of events that
happened in the late sixties early seventies in London at
this old cemetery called Highgate and like a lot of
people like that's where like Karl Marx is buried, you know,
so there's like a lot of famous people that are

(01:22:06):
buried in the cemetery. Well, people started saying that they
saw like vampires in the cemetery. And you had a
couple of people. One was a guy named Bishop Sewn Manchester,
who was kind of like this local character who said
that he was in there trying to kill the vampire.
And this other guy named David Farrant, and he was

(01:22:26):
like a more of the new ag or pagan kind
of like occult investigator. These two guys, and this became
a big media sensation in the early nineteen seventies Britain
so much so that these guys went on TV and
it actually caused like a miniature riot of people trying

(01:22:48):
to get into the Highgate Cemetery trying to find the vampire.
But while all this is going on, people are actually
seeing things entities inside the cemetery that they would say
would be like a classic vampire figure. So people are
actually reporting this and you kind of have to wonder

(01:23:11):
if because of course the media loved it, I mean
it was great material with sensationalistic and the guys were
weird and you know, to put them on the but
put them on the show on TV. But you have
to wonder if there was a top kind of aspect
of this that people begin to actually see something and
it was actually manifesting inside the cemetery. So there could

(01:23:34):
have actually been some real supernatural paranormal things going on there.
But there was either a co creation type of thing
or it was like a Toulpa where we manifested or
manifested ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
And you mentioned the you mentioned the Philip experiment.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
I mean that's like the big one that people they
actually made up this uh this students made up this
ghost named Philip, and they made up a whole backstory
behind Philip, and it's completely made up. But yet people
they began to actually encounter Philip, either like as an

(01:24:12):
apparition or like a Ouiji board or.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
Yeah, they would ask him to do certain things and
then things would happen or they you know, the knocking
and the table tipping. And I don't know if they
used the Wiji aboard or anything like that as well,
but whatever they create a thought form it interacted with him.

Speaker 3 (01:24:30):
Yeah, yeah, and it yeah, I mean, and this is
a concept, the concept of tulpa. I mean, of course
that's a it's a it's an Eastern concept of the
Tibetan Buddhism, but it's this It originally comes to the
West from this lady that was a Tibetan Buddhist that
went to Tibet and she said that she encountered this

(01:24:54):
figure there that the monks told her was a tulpa.
That was it was to create this this person was
basically created from the people's the other monk's mind essentially. Uh,
that's a pretty fascinating story.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
Yeah. I looked up a little bit about to Highgate
Vampire there and there's all kinds of stuff there it
started Victorian times. There was exploding coffins in the cemetery there,
and apparently they said, you know, there was no embalming
or anything back then, but as the gases build up
in these hermametically sealed coffins, they would explode. So they

(01:25:36):
started drilling holes in there and putting pipes into the
graves and then sticking a match to the I've been
burning off the gases hygienically, and that's in quotes there,
but I've been all kinds of things. Their tales of rituals,
and this guy who was the Highgate vampire suppose he
was a black magician from Romania that was buried there,

(01:25:57):
and there were some times of Satanists in there for
me a ritual and woke him up. And then that's
when they started seeing all this I'll start all that
hubbub in the seventies, but the parts of that story
are kind of reminiscent of spring Hill Jack too.

Speaker 3 (01:26:14):
Seems like yeah, that was yeah, yeah, actually, yeah, that's
a good that's a that's a good point that it
was jumping around and these type of things, and once again,
you know, I think what you know, it's going back
to the earlier part of the discussion. You know, I
think that these things can also because and I don't

(01:26:38):
want to say it's mass hysteria, but I think it's
it feeds off the tension, right, the tension that's going on,
like like, for instance, in twenty sixteen, you know, I
mean there's a lot there's a lot of tension in
this country now, but you know back at that time,
you know that that election, there's a ton of.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Tention out there, and then people started staying.

Speaker 3 (01:26:58):
The clowns, so it was kind of just like, you know,
whatever the collective tension that there is in a society,
these things will tend to manifest themselves. And definitely something
like spring Hill Jack and you know, whatever is going
on socially.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
Causes these things to just kind of manifest.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
So it could be just like a high mind thing,
kind of like the way they've explained some poultrygeist activity
where it's usually focuses on or centers around a young
girl that's starting through puberty and the house goes wild
with us, stuff flying off the shelves and knocks and
people being pulled out of bed and things. It could

(01:27:45):
be that whatever energy that is, but on a national
or even international level, that all these people are feeding
all these weird emotions and energies out there, and that's
what happens. You get it might be or you get
black eyed kids, or you get run out of the
woods and chase people.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
Yeah, I don't know how it would feel like a
clown's hardly chasing me through the woods.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
I think clowns are creepy anyway, So I thought that
would scare me.

Speaker 3 (01:28:13):
What was the story you told you had told me
it's in one of your books that there was a
guy in a clowns woods or something.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
Yeah, there was a guy that I interviewed strange things
in the woods, and we're talking about the the Pine
Bearings in New Jersey, and he was talking about strange
stuff he'd seen in there, and this particular tale that
he shared with me, he found a pizza and it
was was still fresh just I don't know, don't think

(01:28:45):
it was hot. Of course he didn't need it. It
might have been laced with no tone what. But they
just came across a fresh cooked pizza out in the
middle of the Pine Bearings and he said he'd seen
all kinds of strange there there. Excuse me, strange things there,
including one time a guy wearing nothing but a clown
mask and tube sox carefully picking his way through a

(01:29:06):
briar patch. But then he said, but that's the story
for another time, and I never got to I need
to see if I can still get a hold of
that guy. I'd love to hear that story.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
That's you know. Oh, by the way, yeah, there was
a guy.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
That's one that I except for a tube sox and
a clown mask, very carefully making his way through a
briar patch. But that's a story for another time. I'd
love to go back and hear that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
Yeah, there muld have been there could have been some
heavy drugs involved.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
Yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
That's what. That's what. That's high strangeness. Indeed, that's that's
probably one of my favorite of your stories.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
And that's one I don't have the Paul Harvey ending,
you know, and now the rest of the story, Now
you know the rest of the story. Or I've got
a podcast called Ain't That some Shit? And that's kind
of a modern day take on Paul Harvey. I tell
some little story, excuse me, throat, but I tell some

(01:30:12):
little story with a strange twist at the end and say,
you know, well I ain't that some shit, you know?
And and you know, well podcasts you get away with that.
But along we got a couple episodes of it up.
I've got more written. I just have to record them.
But I've got so much going on. I'm back on
my whole channel, uh Missing Person's Mysteries. Uh, that's my

(01:30:35):
channel now. I was able to. I won't go into
all that, but I was gone for about a year
and it's my channel now, and uh just passed two
hundred and eighty six thousand subscribers yesterday and thank you.
So that's you know, takes up a lot of time.
And then in the interim, i'd started my own missing

(01:30:55):
person channel called Among the Missing, and uh, less than
a year, I got about seven or eight months. I
got that to one hundred and six thousand, I think,
And then I've still got thirteen past midnight. I've got
a channel that talks about UFOs and related phenomenal Call
from Beyond that's live on Wednesday nights. And then I

(01:31:16):
put occasional videos up over there, and then just all
kinds of things. And then I'm still writing books. Publish
my twentieth book, last year and more on the way.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
Love of You all about a lot of those books too.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
Yeah, and a lot of those books. There's continual bestsellers,
Strange Things in the Woods that regularly fights its way
back to number one, and today National Park Mysteries and
Disappearances Volume one, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. It's
back at number one, has been for a couple of days.
So it just you know, I've struck a cord there,

(01:31:55):
a residence with a lot of people, and I'm working
on more books in that series. I had volume two,
which is places at certain Places in California, Joshua Tree
and a lot of weird, weird energy there, Yosemite and
Mount Shasta. In volume three is the Pacific Northwest with
the parts of Oregon, Washington, and Idaho. And I'm working

(01:32:18):
on my wife and I write a book about New England,
and started in our research we kind of found out
that all the New England states have a weird stuff
to some degree, but Connecticut has got more than anywhere.
I mean, you got stuff like Dudley Town and all
this other stuff, and I think Connecticut's probably going to

(01:32:40):
be its own book, and then we'll do another book
in that National Park series or maybe just New England Mysteries,
and because there are national parks here like Avacadia and
things like that, and a lot of weird stuff here,
the UFO encounters in the Shares Betty and Barney Hill,

(01:33:02):
and you know, it's just it's a wonderful, wonderful place.

Speaker 3 (01:33:06):
I got to go up to the to see their
gravesite in New Hampshire last year.

Speaker 1 (01:33:11):
Yeah, on from Beyond. Earlier this week I ran an
interview that somebody had done with her at the MEWFON
conference and I think it's ninety or ninety one, and
it was amazing to get to hear speak well.

Speaker 2 (01:33:26):
Speaking of missing persons mysteries.

Speaker 3 (01:33:29):
I don't know if you've heard about what's going on
in Nashville. We've had a couple of weird missing person's
cases up here, one of which is one in a
friend of mine's neighborhood here in Hendersonville, Tennessee. This this

(01:33:52):
kid named Sebastian Rodgers disappeared from his home. This was
in the middle of February or like towards the end
of February, and he's not been seen again.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
There was a big like push here a search for
him for about a week.

Speaker 3 (01:34:20):
And now they've kind of like seems like it's been
over to a criminal case. Yeah, so I don't know
that it may have it may have hit national news.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
I'm not sure, but yes, a Bastian Rogers.

Speaker 1 (01:34:34):
Yeah, I just googled it here and yeah, this one
kind of slipped under my radar, but I'll definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
And then just this last weekend or the weekend before last,
we had this twenty one year old student from the
University of Missouri. It was Riley Strain.

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
Yeah, now I saw that one.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
He disappeared.

Speaker 3 (01:34:57):
After I think being in a bar, and no one
has heard from him. And they said that they found
his wallet close to a homeless camp close to downtown Nashville.
And that's a much more recent thing. But in the
last last few and then we had this this girl
that was that went missing and her body was later found.

(01:35:20):
So we've had like this like weird, weird string of
like missing and.

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
They do tend to happen in clusters like that. You know,
as soon as you said he disappeared from a bar.
I've covered a lot of cases like that. And there's
a thing that we're working on a documentary about the
smiley faced killer theory. Have you ever heard that? Oh,
what's your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
On that we talked about? We talked about it on the.

Speaker 3 (01:35:44):
Show with William Ramsey who did a documentary about it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
This is several years ago now that we talked about it.
You know, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:35:55):
I mean, some people think it's just a statistical thing
where these people will go missing and then there's like
a smiley faced graffiti somewhere around that could.

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
But you know, I think you'd be hard pressed to
find anywhere where there's not a smiley face somewhere. That's
probably the most popular graffiti symbol other than human genitalia.

Speaker 3 (01:36:16):
But it is it is strange that a lot of
it is He's really and you know, David Polotta is
actually covered in one of his books. But these these
guys they go missing.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
And they're not found.

Speaker 3 (01:36:32):
It's very similar to the missing four one one phenomenon,
where it's they're not found you know, by the by
the searchers, and then they turn up in a place
that's already been searched. Now some of Politis' stuff, I mean,
you could be kind of critical about it and say
that maybe it'll be you know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
Uosing.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
He cherry picks and he emits the facts a lot
of times too. And I was in pre law University
of Tennessee and that was one of the first things
they taught us was that you can commit a crime
by own mission just the same as you can by comission.
So right, uh he And I understand, you know, he's
got to make it try to fit that spooky thing.

(01:37:14):
But a lot of those I don't think if you
know the facts like to do or Koon's case, that's
not a missing for one one, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:37:22):
Yeah, well, there's some that I saw that you know,
it's Riot did an excellent show about this on his
show where you know, somebody like a reddit, somebody on
a researcher put this stuff up on Reddit.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
Where yeah, there's a clinical analysis and they go case
by case write down the actual what really happened, and
some of these people have been found and yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
Right, and then they were found. They were found at
the time. I mean, I think there was.

Speaker 3 (01:37:51):
One where the guy like literally left and they said,
well that you know, it's stated, well they never found.
But then in a later newspaper clipping that's maybe like
a month later, Oh he came back.

Speaker 2 (01:38:07):
So it was like, was that stuff just not available
to Pilate's or was it just sloppy research? You know
who knows?

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
And I get people come after me all the time. Oh,
you're just copying Politis. Well, no, that's not the way
it is. Number one, The only thing he doesn't own
the missing If anybody owns those stories, it's the person
that's missing or maybe their family. Right. But well, I
discovered the Dennis Martin case. I followed that Adam from
day one. I lived in the same town as Dennis.

(01:38:34):
It was just a few months younger than he was.
I thought that from Father's Day nineteen sixty nine on.
And yet I can't talk about that because oh, that's
David Plis's case. And a lot of those cases, including
well others, but all those in the Smokyes, those weird ones,
those have been written about by Unsolved Mysteries in the

(01:38:56):
Smokeys Wanita. I remember what her last name was, Walder,
and I think she wrote about those back in the nineties.
Dwight McCarter retired park ranger lead tracker in the dentist
Martin case. He wrote a book.

Speaker 3 (01:39:10):
Yeah, that's what That's what drives me crazy about the dentists,
about the A lot of stuff is that he is.
So you don't own information, Yeah, like all that stuff
is public information unless certain things are hitting, which is possible.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
Yeah, And I've said that to people. We don't reference
any of his material. We get our information the same
place he gets is right news reports, law enforcement and
park range reports, Charlie Project, name us friends and family
of the person that's missing. And the only thing he
owns a copyright too, is his books, including the errors

(01:39:49):
and omissions. So there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:39:52):
Well you also, you know, you were one of the
first to tell me about Dennis Martin.

Speaker 2 (01:39:57):
I had heard about before. But the girl that disappeared
in the.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
Gibson Yeah, I knew of her. I wasn't friends with her,
but I used to see her at West Town Mall.
She was one of the girls at Morrison's Cafeteria. To
carry your trade at the table. My parents like to
eat there. It's kind of an old folks place. They
didn't season the food heavily. I've seen her. I talked
to her sister before she passed away of alcoholism, and

(01:40:22):
she said, you know, and I'd like to think that
that Trainy ran away with a boyfriend that my parents
would have had shattered their family. But she said, I'd
like to think Triny ran away with some boy that
my parents wouldn't have approved of. And she's under the
assumed name, living out her life in sunny southern California.
But she said, in my heart of hearts, I don't

(01:40:43):
think Trany ever left that mountain, and that's probably, sadly
the truth. And another one, Thelma Pauline Polly. I can't
remember the last name, just as the tip of my tongue. Milton.
She disappeared up there. The hiking and skiing club that
I was a part of, volunteer searchers, volunteer searchers for her,

(01:41:06):
But oh, that's Sonto's case. I don't think so. And
even Dennis Martin I said I was five going on six,
he was six to one on seven. In my little
child like mine, I thought, well, we don't live that
far from the Smokies, which was, you know, an hour away,
But that was my car, and I thought, maybe he
wandered down here and he's lost. I got out on

(01:41:27):
the little country road that we lived on, and my
swinsting ray looked into the bushes and the weeds for him.
So you know, that was a real loss of innocence
for me. I realized, Hey, a kid about my age
can go missing and leave no trace and never be
found again. So well, that's not anybody's case.

Speaker 3 (01:41:46):
I think it was Michah Hanks who when I first
heard about that from. But you know, it's like I
can remember. You know, my dad, he doesn't have much
interest in a lot of this and more paranormal stuff,
but you know, he definitely and I asked him about it,
he definitely remembered it. Yeah, And that's the Chattanoogas. I mean,
I think it was like it had to have been
a nation wide not Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:02):
It was the biggest search and rescue effort ever in
the Smokies, and you had a lot of strange things
happened there though. The rangers showed up and wouldn't work
with the park employees, did their own thing, had their
own command post and everything, and supposedly they were in
some area doing maneuvers, but the rangers don't come in

(01:42:24):
and look for missing kids. The FBI was there right away.
The FBI agent that was the local lead for that case.
Out of the regional office, blew his brains out at
the bar on Kingston Pike there in Knoxville. After all
that was over, the bar called Caddies there at Kingston
Pike and I think paper Mill Road. I've been there before,
way way back in the day as a dance club.

(01:42:45):
But went in and uh, I think he flashed his
badge so he was able to get in with the weapon,
went in, went out in the middle of the dance floor
and ate a bullet. So there's just a lot of weird,
weird stuff with that case, and there's going on YouTube.
South Forest ten claims that there's fairal cannibal people that

(01:43:06):
live in the small some kind of bigfoot hybrid and
he says they ate him so or they kept him
for breeding purposes. But he claims that his family back
in the thirties were hired by the government to go
in there and tend these things out before they made
the National park. And then my buddy's over to blief
Whole podcast. They talk about that the containment theory that

(01:43:28):
the national parks are a way to contain these things
in a place. But I don't know about that, because
you know, there's no fences or gates around it or anything,
but a lot of stuff goes down in the national
parks and state parks and things.

Speaker 3 (01:43:43):
What do you think as far as the Jennis Morton
case goes. I mean, I think we've we've you and
I talked about this on my show, But what do
you do you think? Do you think that that was
probably what it was? Was that there could have been
a group of.

Speaker 1 (01:44:01):
There are people that live off grid up there. My
Carter that I spoke of, he talked about that. He
didn't say anything about them being cannibals or being bigfoot hybrids,
but he thought, he said, there are people that live way,
way way back in the park that don't want to
see other people don't want to be seen. And I
talk about that in my book about the Smokies. I said,

(01:44:23):
consider you had Eric Rudolph, who was the Olympic Park bomber.
Is on the FBI's most wanted list for a while.
He went and d in nanta Hala National Forest, which
is just down the Appalachian Trail, a little way from.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
The Smokers around around Murphy, North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (01:44:44):
Yes, that's the guy.

Speaker 2 (01:44:46):
My friend and I we used to go out there
to Murphy and Uh, we would always you know, just
you know, gets from Chattanooga's just due.

Speaker 1 (01:44:54):
And this was a guy who had no real outdoor
survival experience. Now he did go through Milton Terry training,
but I think he washed out in boot camp.

Speaker 2 (01:45:03):
Jokes that we would see him and then he got
three that's where he was.

Speaker 1 (01:45:07):
That's where they found him. Uh, And he was coming
into some little town there and getting like day old
hostess cakes out of the dumpster or something at some
little grocery store and a rookie cop spotted.

Speaker 2 (01:45:20):
Him somebody where.

Speaker 1 (01:45:22):
One time I was in Mountain City, Tennessee, which is
just down the road from Boone, North Carolina, and then
the Burger King. There was a guy that looked like
Eric Rudolf and I said to the person, I said,
that looks like Eric Rudolf. And he noticed us to
watching him, and he got up and got the hell
out of there. But it looked when I saw him
later on after they capture that's the guy I saw

(01:45:43):
Burger King. I think he did come out of the woods,
and supposedly he had people helping him hide and stuff.
But five or six years and if somebody like that
can do it, you could have people in the smoke.
He's I've been off trail in the smoke. He's places
where I doubt anybody Caucasian, Cherokee the otherwise have ever
set foot. Do you think way way back in there.

Speaker 3 (01:46:06):
Do you think that this is a more recent thing
as over somebody's just like some group is like, well,
let's just go back to the land and all this
kind of stuff. Or do you think that this is
a remnant of people that I think it's.

Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
Because over there where my dad's from Middleton, sat Finras County,
there were families that immigrated over and in fact, one
of the guys I got some stories from from strange
things in the woods. His family grew up miles and
miles farther back in the woods and where my dad's
family lived, and they weren't close to They were several
miles from Jamestown. But those people lived in the woods.

(01:46:43):
Now they moonshined and did all this stuff. They only
came out every now and then, you know, to buy
supplies and stuff. But they didn't want They were first
generation Irish immigrants. And the guy that I talked to,
I told he's passed away now. He was an old
man when I was a kid. But he was the
first of the family born here. But they were from
Ireland and they lived so far back in the woods.

(01:47:06):
I don't think you could have found him if you
didn't know, if they didn't take you there. And that's
that property where my dad grew up. They had nine
hundred acres over there, and it backs up on the
Tennessee side to the Big South Fork National Recreation Area,
which is on the other side of the river there
on the Kentucky side. But there's some untamed wilderness and

(01:47:27):
you could hide forever out there and again in the
Smokies or anywhere like that. You need food, water, shelter,
You've got all that if you know what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:47:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47:39):
But yeah, Rudolph hit out for five or six years.
So if somebody with little to no training can do it,
imagine people that have lived maybe five six generations or
more out there. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:47:54):
Well, I mean you do have and you do have
odd groups that now they're not isolated people, but you know,
like mysterious groups of people like the Molundeons. Yeah, you know,
like I know you're familiar with them. Like there's I mean,
you know a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
Of people think well, they were probably just you know,
maybe getting just sent as a scape slaves that you know,
came out they're married Indian women or whatever, and that's
that's the remnant of that. But that's not what the
Malundeons say they are, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:26):
So then you've got you ever heard the story of
the moon eyed people.

Speaker 2 (01:48:31):
I've heard of it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:32):
I think that's from from North Carolina. They they hid
in caves and stuff, I think, and the Cherokee who
would chase them out of there and kill them apparently
that's I think I'm getting that right. But if if
you look on moon eyed people and there's artifacts in
the museums and stuff that trace back to those, a
lot of those Cherokee legends, uh, there's there's some truth

(01:48:55):
to those. I mean, they've got a legend for everything
under the sun, including the sun. But I mean they've
got legends of hairy creatures. They've got real legends of
little people. They've got like here in New England, the
Native American tribe here, I think it's the Algonquins. They
have a myth about a creature that looks like a
rock and it can open up and swallow people. Well,

(01:49:17):
a lot of these people that are found in the
woods deceased, they're in a boulder field. Well, what better
placed something that looks like a rock to hide and
in a boulder field. And some of the people that
are found they look like they've been dropped from a
considerable height, even though there's no height for them to
have fallen from. Well, if something that's a rock creature
opens up and swallows you, gets whatever it needs, and

(01:49:39):
then spits you back out, might look like you've fallen
from a height. There was another one, I think that's
in the Bennington Triangle up here, a hunter that they
found in the woods that looked like he'd been squeezed
to death. What's that? You know? There's some creepy, creepy
stuff in these triangle places. And I was going to
ask your thoughts on that. The more I've delved into that,

(01:50:00):
everybody knows the Bermuda Triangle, but there's the Bennington Triangle,
there's a Burlington Triangle, there's a Nevada triangle, there's an
Alaskan triangle. All these triangles the Great Legs Triangle, And
any thoughts on any of those that that that you
know of anything about.

Speaker 3 (01:50:18):
I think that there are places on the Earth that
are just weird and whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
That's the Smokies. There's a geomagnetic anomaly and it goes
up into Kentucky. Two. We covered Mammoth Cave and all
that weird.

Speaker 3 (01:50:32):
You know, definitely like my friend Nathan Isaac, you know
the Penny Royal podcast. I mean, he talks a lot
about that type of thing. But I mean there's I
think that there's weird. There might be even like you know,
not necessarily triangle areas, but just like strange places. I mean,
like you know the four Quarners area.

Speaker 1 (01:50:49):
Yeah, there you go. I lived right in the edge
of that, and the right the edge of the novel
resolution and there you've got Laztecs was the other one
I was trying to think of. That's right there where
I lived. One of the biggest UFO sidings that nobody's
ever heard of happened right there in Farmington back and

(01:51:10):
I think it was nineteen fifty. There was things like
twenty silver desk and one red well flew up and
down the Animus River for two days. I was, you know,
I could walk to the Animus River from my house,
but that was that's out due a recent four your requests.
But most people have never heard of that, but that
was one. It was seen by cops, it was seen
by just ordinary people. It was seen by taxi drivers

(01:51:32):
and shopkeepers and stuff. But well, it's just there's something
about that area. Then you've got skin walkers and shape
shifters and all that stuff out there too.

Speaker 3 (01:51:43):
Well you'll find you'll find that in some of these,
especially some of these like UFO cases, you'll find that
some of these areas that they're seeing, there's other phenomenon there.

Speaker 1 (01:51:54):
So go.

Speaker 2 (01:51:54):
Casing point is riddleshrom Forest.

Speaker 1 (01:51:57):
Yeah, we talked about that from beyond recently that's been
called Britain's Roswell.

Speaker 2 (01:52:03):
And there's there's there's but that there have been weird
things going on in windows Riddles, some forests the locals
would tell would say, we'll tell a lot of stories
about stuff that's been seen out there.

Speaker 1 (01:52:15):
Yeah, so not UFO.

Speaker 3 (01:52:17):
So like there's just these I think the terminology that's
usually used as something like window.

Speaker 2 (01:52:22):
Area, you know, it's a good terminology for it, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:52:26):
Think it's it's kind of the lay lines. You know
that you don't hear much about that outside of the
UK or Great Britain. But it follows points. I mean,
you can draw a straight line between a lot of
these sites, and there are places like that here, especially
a couple of years ago, I spoke at UFO conference
in San Francisco and went from Saint Helens, Oregon, drove

(01:52:47):
down there and back and just down the I five.
There you've got Crater Lake, You've got the Oregon Vortex,
You've got Mount Shasta, Uh, you got the Redwood Forest
also known as the Bigfoot Highway Forest. And there's that
whole I five corridor up the coast there. It's just weird, weird, weird,

(01:53:10):
just boom boom boom, one point after another, and it
goes all the way up, you know, if you continue
going north Mount Saint Helen's Mount Rainier on into Canada.
So I think there's energies along those lines that just
disrupt everything or cause these things that happen.

Speaker 3 (01:53:27):
Yeah, most definitely, there's definitely something something to it.

Speaker 2 (01:53:31):
I mean I've even heard.

Speaker 3 (01:53:35):
Things about, you know, small little towns that are weird,
and you know, these things that happen in these different
little places, And.

Speaker 1 (01:53:46):
I think I sent you a copy of it. But
if you ever read Weird America by Jim Brandon.

Speaker 3 (01:53:52):
Uh No, I've never read it, but I never was
talking about long out of print.

Speaker 1 (01:53:56):
Yeah, there was a little town in there that he
found called Dun, North Carolina, where it was just a
pocket of all this weird stuff. There was monsters, there
was ministers. He called him the co warnings of a
little man the size of a coke bottle. All this
stuff that happened, and there was a newspaper the guy
there locally that had documented all this stuff, and I'd

(01:54:18):
made plans to go, made plans to go all the
guy passed away and I actually corresponded with his widow.
But there's this one little place just that and I've
been there since he passed away. But it's just this
tiny little place kind of I was on my way
to the Outer Banks at that time. It's kind of
just in the lowlands there, little community where all this

(01:54:40):
stuff happened. But I've heard there's also a lot of
voodoo and who Doo and things like that there. I
think that type thing, any type of rituals, whether it
be who do voodoo, satanism, occultism, black magic, whatever, I
think that causes things to be real active in those areas.

Speaker 2 (01:55:03):
Yeah, it's just you know, people going in and doing.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
Missing with stuff. They ain't got no business, as my
granny one say, there you go. Well, Adam, we're almost
out of time here. Those two hours have just flown by.
But I want to thank you so much for joining
me here on everything out there, and again let people
know where they can find you. What you've got coming

(01:55:30):
up in Are you working on a book or did
I dream that I was thinking that that.

Speaker 2 (01:55:34):
Oh no, don't. I don't have any book that I'm
currently writing. But my uh, you may see something from
at some point from a conspiraal host who knows, but.

Speaker 3 (01:55:49):
I yeah, so conspirarmal conspiental dot com. Steve has been
on there several times.

Speaker 1 (01:55:56):
I was thinking it was just a couple of times,
but now that you mentioned, I believing has been several times.
We have some good fun from Phantom Clowns to we
talked about the cloaking stuff. I don't think I was
on there with Guffy, but I was on either right
before or right after.

Speaker 2 (01:56:13):
Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3 (01:56:14):
I think you would listen to the to that show
and we have we have strange realities, which is a
strange Realities Conference every year we were doing that, but
also starting up here in the in April, we are
going to be starting up our online meetups again and
these are something that are for our patreons, but you

(01:56:36):
can sign up for it as well, and these are
presentations from different people, so that is also a part
of the Strange Realities thing. And I also do a
produce a YouTube channel called Naveya's Nightmare that you guys
should check out as well.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
I'm not you don't see me in it, but Conspira
Normal has a YouTube presence as well.

Speaker 2 (01:57:00):
Correct well, yeah, so conparently you can find that as well.
And uh, hopefully pretty soon I'm gonna be putting up a.

Speaker 3 (01:57:07):
Lot of the presentations of the Strange Realities Conference on
a Strange Realities Conference channel too.

Speaker 1 (01:57:13):
The one that I attended virtually where did you have that?
Was it? It was like one of the sound studios
or something down there, I think was Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:57:20):
So we do it at a place called s i
R Nashville and which is like a it's cancer studio
Instrument rentals and they rent out rehearsal space. But it's
got a great stage and it's a great room and
it's got everything that we need to do a conference.
So that's where we do it.

Speaker 1 (01:57:38):
That's awesome looking forward to that. And again that's November
first and second, correct.

Speaker 2 (01:57:43):
Yes, sir noverb for a second and third.

Speaker 1 (01:57:45):
But the third, now is that an extra day that's
been editors had always been.

Speaker 3 (01:57:51):
It's online, So the whole thing is online, but the
first and the first and the second, which is the
Friday and Saturday, that's going to be there at the
at s R. But the third day on the third
is actually online only.

Speaker 1 (01:58:06):
So okay. And you did mention in years past that
people that have done like the field trips or day
trips to places like the bill Witch Cave or whatever,
anything that's close by. Have you done the Rhyman Auditorium.

Speaker 2 (01:58:19):
Oh yeah, I've been over there.

Speaker 1 (01:58:21):
Yeah, that's I'd like to investigate. There's so many ghost
stories about that place. I've been in there. It's it's
got a creepy guy.

Speaker 2 (01:58:29):
It does, it does well. That's where the the Grand
Old Opera used to be.

Speaker 1 (01:58:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:58:34):
Yeah, but it's it's even older than the Grand Old
Opera itself.

Speaker 1 (01:58:38):
So yeah, yeah, it was I think started as a church.
I believe it did. So something about those abandoned churches
that become other things, that there's something there, Leeway, We're
gonna go ahead and wrap it up. I'm going to
get out of here again, Adam saying thank you for
joining us. I'll have links in the show notes to

(01:58:58):
Conspire Normal, the website, the YouTube channel, and what was
the name of the other YouTube channel, Nevea's Nightmare, Naveah's Nightmare,
and a link to the Strange Realities Conference. Once again,
thank you for being here. I'm gonna go ahead and
get out of here. You've been listening to everything out
there on the Clyde Lewis Ground zero Radio network. I'm

(01:59:18):
Steve Stockton. I'll see a little further on down the trail.
Tell your animals. I said, hi, good night everybody,

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