September 4, 2025 • 45 mins
From Brooklyn to Tokyo and back again, Datwon Thomas’ story is as global as it is deeply rooted in hip-hop. In Part 1, he shares how growing up during the crack era, moving to Japan in the mid-’80s, and facing both culture shock and racism shaped his worldview long before he became an architect of music media.
Datwon walks us through his early hustle—interning at VIBE, boldly cold-calling XXL’s Reginald Dennis, and turning deep knowledge of the culture into paid opportunities that launched his career. Along the way, he reflects on the golden era of hip-hop, the mentors who opened doors, and the relationships that would carry him through XXL, King, and eventually to producing some of the biggest stages in entertainment.
Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today, on Mixed and Mastered, we're joined by
Daytuan Thomas, an architect ofhip-hop and R&B media.
Starting with launching XXL'sfreshman issue, founding the
iconic King magazine, thenbecoming editor-in-chief at Vibe
magazine, daytuan has spent hiscareer shaping culture.
He then brought that vision toDick Clark Productions,
(00:23):
producing television and liveevents, including the American
Music Awards, Billboard's MusicAwards and New Year's Rockin'
Eve.
This is Mixed and Mastered withDaytuan Thomas.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,a podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
(00:47):
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and MasteredMixed and Mastered with my man.
(01:08):
What's goody?
Daytuan Toms?
I ain't seen in a minute man.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I know, man.
It's been a while, bro.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
It's been a while we see each other pretty much every
week when I walk down to theking offices Exactly have our
debates Right up the block,right up the street, right you
know what's so crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Do you remember what they used to call that block?
Nah, they used to call itShotgun Alley, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
That block had the Harris publication, which is
King Magazine, and XXL.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Slam everything.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Slam.
They had Jimmy Hinchman.
Peace to Jimmy Hinchman.
His office was there.
Had Violator slam everythingslam that jimmy hitchman, piece
of jimmy hitchman, right therehad violator, yep yep.
All that was going on but allthat one little block between,
uh, what was that?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
56 yep, I remember one time when jimmy came out his
building.
Jimmy hitchman and his crewcame out.
Jimmy came out his building,jimmy Hitchman and his crew came
out and Chris.
Lighty and his crew came outand that parking lot, at that
parking lot man and I was aboutto walk to my car, I was like,
oh no, no, no.
It looked like a Westernshowdown.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That was, that was.
That was I've had a lot of, um,I've had a lot.
I mean I that was.
I've had a lot of, I've had alot.
I'm going to start expandingmore to the West Coast, but I've
had a lot of New York guests sofar Talking about like we
always talk about, like how itwas da-da-da-da back in the day.
It was different times.
(02:38):
Let's get going, let's go.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yes, indeed, you want to raise the.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yes, indeed, brooklyn kid man.
This is wow.
It's funny that we're talkingabout that.
Now there's this author thatjust put a book out called the
Gods of New York, JonathanMahler, and he did it on the
(03:06):
years of 19, 1990, and how thosewere the most crucial years in
New York City because of thecrack epidemic and Bernard Goard
, getz and tawana broadly, andyou know, central park five, the
exonerator five now and um, Ibring that up because I was born
in brooklyn and raised thereuntil 1986 and then, which is
where the book starts, and hestarts there because he said
that was the beginning of likethe end of the old new york.
(03:30):
It started to become, like, youknow, drug city and crack and
epidemic and all that.
And my mom, I think she felt itand, uh, she was, um, she was a
secretary at one police plazafor the police commissioner,
yeah, and she had met my stepdadand he was in the Air Force and
he was like yo, I'm beingdeployed to Japan.
(03:53):
She was like I'm with it.
I got to bring my son.
He was like bring him, and hewas out.
And they got married and we wasout October 86.
And we went to Tokyo, japan,like just just outside of Tokyo,
we went to Yokota Air ForceBase, which is actually in Fusa,
and I lived there for threestraight years, man and enjoy
(04:14):
the luxuries that my family herein New York.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It was going to do it .
Speaker 2 (04:21):
That was a you know getting all these letters from
my cousins telling me who gotshot and what happened to this
one, who got locked up.
This felt like a nod song youknow what I'm saying and, um, as
much as I miss being home, itwasn't until I got back home at
the end of 89 that I realizedwhat she had taken me away from.
(04:45):
That probably saved my life,because you know the guys that I
was running with before we leftand we were young.
We was young, we was like whatwas I?
I was 11 and it was stillpopping at 11.
It was crazy.
You know what I mean.
And the main guys that I waswith during that time.
I hate to say it, but you knowwhat I mean.
And the main guys that I waswith during that time.
I hate to say, but you know,yeah, jail or dead.
(05:09):
And and it hurts, because it'salways like that survivor's
guilt or remorse or whatever.
And you wonder, like what, ifshe didn't do that, what would
happen to me?
Yes, I was with them every day.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Even if you wasn't super wild and just being with
them.
You would have been involved insomething just by being there.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Involved in just my block.
I remember growing up one timeand I'm still trying to find
this article.
It was in the New York Timesand they had called Lincoln
Place, which is where I'm from.
I'm from Lincoln Place aroundthe corner from the Brooklyn
museum and prospect Heights,lincoln place between Washington
and under Hill.
They called it wild, wild Westor crack kingdom.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Call it crack kingdom and I was like damn, and I used
to just see you know, you seethe vows and everything.
You don't think about itbecause it's a part of everyday
life, but it was like it wasexcessive where we were and I
knew all the hustlers.
We knew all the dudes, all thefly drug dealers and everything.
We knew all of them.
They used to look out for the,for the young kids on the block
(06:16):
like us, so it wasn't like wedemonized them, we kind of
looked up to them.
You know they coming throughwith with the cars and the gear,
sneakers and outfits and chains, and they got the gear.
They send you to the store.
Keep the change, yeah, all that.
You know what I mean.
So I think about those times.
It was a beautiful time growingup before then though yeah,
(06:38):
even though we don't realizeyou're broke you know what I'm
saying?
you ain't realize, you don'trealize it.
You don't realize as long asyou can get a quarter water and
some cheese you're good moneyCheese dude with the cheese dude
.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Were you a crunchy dude or were you a puffy dude?
I was a puffy dude.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I was a crunchy dude.
I know most people like thepuffies, but I would have ate
them joints if you had them.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's funny, so wait .
So tell me a little bit moreabout Tokyo because I didn't
realize that you lived there forthree years.
Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, man, it was beautiful man when we got to the
base and I had a very, veryunique experience in Japan
because for some reason somebodyin the in the housing
department did not mess with us.
You know, like, imagine if youhad over there, but it was for
the, it was for the base.
(07:31):
It was like when you first getthere they might not have like
an apartment or a home for youyet.
So you live in something calledBilliton for like a month or
maybe at the most three months,while they're trying to figure
out where they're going to placeyou.
And if they don't find a spotfor you in in those three months
, then you have to go.
You and your family have to golive off base, like right
(07:55):
outside the gates of the base.
So now you're in japan proper,like without any americanized
yeah, yeah, anything ormarketing or whatever.
It's all Japanese.
So we ended up living in ahousing complex.
Looks like the projects, it wascalled Caesars and it was right
(08:15):
over the gate of the flightline for the Air Force planes to
come in.
So I used to wake up to C-130big planes with the two
propellers or a C-5 big, that'slike 747 size planes flying
right by my window every I don'tknow 10, 12 hours, whenever
(08:38):
they was coming in and hearthese engines roar and see the
fire come out of them and stuff.
It was crazy.
So we used to live across fromthat, whereas most of my friends
live further down and they were, as we're talking about the
planes that's a helicopter.
most of my friends lived on baseand they were able to look at
(08:59):
like american tv.
They could catch the cosby show.
They phones.
I had a phone for three yearsin my house.
I had no American.
Three years I had no phone inmy house because we was just
like.
It made no sense.
What were we going to call?
We was going to call ourJapanese friends.
It was crazy.
It wasn't no internet ornothing like that.
(09:20):
If you went to school and youwanted to hook up over the
weekend, somebody told you wherethey was going to be at one
o'clock.
You had to be there.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying,because if not, you're going to
miss them.
You know, and I used to ride mybike everywhere.
It was so safe.
My mom went from not wanting meto be outside in Brooklyn on
the block to go ahead.
(09:41):
And I'm in like Shinjukusomewhere.
I'm hopping trains, I'm ridingmad far with a group of American
kids we stealing all types ofstuff, just being dumb Americans
coming back, you know, likeshowing off what you got.
So did you learn?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
to speak any Japanese .
There it was crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
We was wild, but I did.
When I was out out there it wasway more fluent for me because
not only was I learning thelanguage off base and some of
the kids that lived around thejapanese kids that lived around
the complex, they would teachyou all the dirty words and how
(10:20):
to say nasty stuff.
You know this is regular kidstuff, but in in our school, in
our elementary school, I went tosixth grade to ninth grade.
There, in sixth grade you hadto learn it and you had to do
like calligraphy and stuff.
We had to like write river asthe symbol and then he'll be
(10:40):
like river and you got to draw ariver out and you pick it up
like that.
You know, just living off base,little things like ordering
ramen, noodles or whatever.
You want to speak it in thenative language so they could
understand you and get it rightfor you.
You know what I mean.
I used to live.
Right behind me was a bus depot,so imagine like a Greyhound
(11:03):
stop behind my building and theyhad like everything for people.
It was like a rest stop forpeople and me and my boys that
lived in the complex we would gooutside, go downstairs on like
Saturdays and Sundays and bebreak dancing for money, and the
Japanese people would be comingfrom all over.
They would be fascinated A lotof times.
(11:26):
This is their first time seeinga black person in life ever
like in person.
Not looking, because out therethe marketing was like three
people, maybe four, the fourthone, the maybe fourth was eddie
murphy, but the three majorsthat you was going to always see
on like billboards and they wasgetting money out there in
(11:47):
Japan on like candy bars andmilk and all that.
Mike Tyson, the three Mike.
Michael Jordan, michael Jackson,three mics, the same biggie
line, like it was them, and thenEddie Murphy here and there.
And then I remember when RunDMC came, run DMC them, and then
eddie murphy here and there andthen, um, I remember when run
(12:08):
dmc came, run dmc or like publicenemy, I can't remember which
one I think about, it was rundmc.
Run dmc got to japan and it waslike crazy, like it was all
over the news, like they werejust it was like what it was.
Like the beatles came you knowwhat I'm saying for them saying
yeah, man, it was an incrediblething, like we used to break
dance.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
They used to want to feel our hair Because we had, I
mean, my flat part, was crazy.
It was crazy.
It was crazy.
I had a crazy flat top.
Yeah, People would be likeexcuse me, excuse me, that's the
only thing they could say.
They'd be like touch, touch,like they want to touch your
head.
Crazy, it was one, wow, wow,wow.
(12:49):
Experience, though, we went on aclass trip and I can share this
with you, jeff man, this jointis crazy.
We went on a class trip and, um, our classes were really
diverse, man, like being inJapan and being on the air force
base, you would meet the mostamazingly create not even
creative the most amazinglycultured mix of people Like you
(13:13):
would have someone that was likeGerman and Taiwanese, because
the dad went to Taiwan, marriedthe mom, you know, they have a
kid and they they tie in Germanlike it was crazy.
So a bunch of my friends werelike that, but there were only a
few of us that were like fullblack kids, you know, and you
knew it when you saw us, becausethey were also different.
(13:34):
So we go on this class trip.
We're like a little bit southof tokyo and we go into this one
store and this store has likeall the like black oppression,
coon era, like all of thetrinkets I'm talking, like the
black face joints.
It looked like you stepped intoa scene of bamboozle.
You know what I'm saying?
(13:55):
It was spike lee joint and thepeople were looking at us and
they started talking in japaneseand we didn't understand it as
much as one of my my boys out.
He looked fully white, but hewas.
He was half japanese too.
His mom's was japanese, so heknew it fluently.
So he came up to me and my manmike, and was like yo, they
talking heavy about y'all.
He's like what?
(14:17):
And we wondering why?
You know, of course they'regonna look at us, but it's a
bunch of school kids in there,it's a bunch of us.
They were like he, he talkingcrazy about y'all.
He was like what are youtalking about?
He's like yo, they wonderingwhere your tail is at.
I was like what that tail?
It was like yeah, man, he'stalking about, y'all got tails.
Like he heard, y'all got tails.
(14:38):
So that's why he keep wantingy'all to turn around, like they
was looking to see if we wouldturn around and see if they
could see our tails.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Because he was like oh it was crazy.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
He's breaking down what they say and they don't
even realize what they say.
And so then they must have saidsomething so off base I don't
even know what they said.
They must have said somethingcrazy.
He bugged out on them and toldthe teacher, and then the
teacher went and spoke to them.
It was like a little mini thingand yeah, man, it was kind of
bugged out and it just shows youlike the culture clash, you
(15:13):
know what I mean?
Like we went and think, yeah,this is the 80s, this is like 87
.
You know what I'm saying?
I'm like 12.
So it just shows you theculture clash and it also shows
you like what is depicted comingout of America about black
people during that time.
You know civil rights era isjust ended and you know a lot of
(15:34):
the people over there duringthat time they still didn't like
Americans for what happened toHiroshima, especially the elders
.
They was not trying to hear it.
They gave black people a littlemore of a pass, but it was.
It was like wow, they did that.
And that was just the one realkind of like negative thing that
(15:54):
happened.
Everything else was likebeautiful bro, I had the best
time out there.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
And we'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Welcome to Merrick Studios, where stories take the
mic and culture comes alive.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
We're not just a network, we're family, bringing
you smart, soulful, unfilteredconversations.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
In this season, we're bringing the heat with our
biggest lineup yet.
Whatever you're into music,sports business, we got you
covered.
Merrick Studios, where theconversation starts and keeps
going.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Check out our full lineup, including Unglossy, with
Bun B, Jeffrey Sledge andmyself, Tom Fran Now streaming
at wearemerrickstudioscom.
Master the art of lyricism withPendulum Inc, the first school
for rap.
Learn elite techniques throughimmersive lessons, real world
exercises and guidance from hiphop icons.
This is where MC sharpen theirskills and glow boldly on the
(16:44):
mic.
Ready to level up?
Visit Pendulum Inccom and startyour journey today.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
And then long story short, real quick.
I went, I went, I went back toJapan and I left in 89, never
went back.
And then I always wanted to goback.
So Allen Iverson was doing his10-year anniversary for being in
the NBA and they wanted him togo to Asia.
(17:11):
So they asked me to come along.
I was the only journalist thatwent on this trip.
I went this is in September of2005.
Met him in the team in Dallasand we took a flight from Dallas
because he wanted to go to theDallas Cowboys game.
The Cowboys game first.
He was like yo, we're going togo to Japan and China, but I got
(17:32):
to do this game first.
He went to the Cowboys gamefirst, met us us at the airport
and we all went straight toTokyo.
We get to Tokyo I'm buggingEverybody knows by now Cause I
had told him that I used to livethere and I was trying to get
back to my crib but I was madfar away from it.
Where we were at, it was madfar.
So I was like damn, I ain'tgoing to get it my only time
(18:02):
being out here.
But I'm out here with alanrobinson, so I just chalked it
up like damn, it would have beendope if I could get there.
I was like hopefully in thefuture I'll come back.
So we leave tokyo and go to umshanghai, china, and have the
most amazing time and I forgetabout it.
But I'm still kind ofheartbroken because I was so
close to being able to go backto my crib.
That was 05 2011.
I get blessed with theopportunity to go on tour with
swv to chronicle their uh, theirexperience in japan.
(18:24):
So I go with them to japan andthey give us a free day to do
whatever you want and go around.
So part of that, that morning Iwent, I went shopping with them
and they picked out some stufffor my wife and everything guys
like bags.
Morning I went, I went shoppingwith them and they picked out
some stuff for my wife andeverything guys like bags like
we went.
We went crazy.
It was a dope experience justhaving them like no, she might
(18:46):
like this, she might like that.
And then I was like yo, youknow what, I think I can make it
to my old crib.
It was like you, you gonna goby yourself.
I was like, yeah, I, I rememberthe trains vaguely.
I was like I'm just gonna tryto try to speak my way through
it.
And by then we had google.
We had google maps.
By then in 05 I don't rememberhaving it, but in 11 we had it.
(19:08):
So I just plotted it out and Igot to the train station.
Wow, was speaking to differentjapanese people.
A bunch, bunch of people helpedme and I got to my old crib.
Man, I got and I recorded itfor my mom before she passed and
she was so excited.
She was like she couldn'tbelieve that I made it, cause I
called her.
I made it back to the crib Likethey let me in the crib.
(19:31):
The old lady that ran the, thatran the spot, that ran the
complex, she remembered me as akid.
Yeah, she remembered me.
She was like oh, da-da-da-da-da, trying to pitch my cheeks and
stuff like crazy, and she let mein.
She had the janitor in them.
They let me in.
I went into my room, I wentinto my sister's room, I went
(19:54):
into my parents' room.
I couldn't believe I made itback.
It was such a fulfillingfeeling, man.
It was crazy.
Yeah, well, this is what'scrazy.
I got back.
We got back in like 89.
I spent a month in New York.
Then my stepdad was like gotanother deployment, let's pack
(20:16):
it up, we're going to New Mexico.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I was like, yeah, Albuquerque.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I only heard of that in Bugs Bunny cartoons.
You know what I'm saying.
So we go, we go to Albuquerque.
My mom was like, oh, you wantto stay or you want to go.
I was like I really want tostay.
She was like I don't think youshould stay, stay.
It's kind of crazy because whenI, when we got back, this is
what made her make me go to newmexico.
(20:43):
When we got back, it wasoctober, it was mad cold, it was
like almost halloween yeah, youknow how back in?
the day halloween was, I wasoutside I had a carton of eggs,
yo, it was all types of stuff,man.
Then dudes ran out of eggs,they started.
They went down to the fishmarket.
(21:03):
As a crew went down to the fishmarket, stole all the fish, was
hitting people with redsnappers wow, because it's
Halloween, just if you outsidered snappers all across their
face, like it was crazy.
It was like a bunch of us withour cousins and stuff and they
all came back home and Iremember we was all talking
(21:24):
about what happened that day andmy mom was listening and she
was like, yeah, you gotta go,you ain't gonna be running
around going all crazy.
So went to New Mexico.
I was there for like a year anda half and that was tough
because it was such a cultureclash.
Coming back to America, it wasraw.
You know what I'm saying.
Like in Japan everything is allsweet and beautiful and rosy,
(21:48):
but it was raw, man.
And you know I've said this acouple of times, but just
explaining what, the situationwas out there.
It was gang life, you know.
It was Bloods and Crips and Ihad yeah, but that was yeah we
close to the West Coast, so Ihad seen like colors and all
that, but I really didn't know,not knowing what that meant.
(22:10):
You know what I mean, thatlevel, yeah.
So one day I went to schoolwith all red on, not knowing.
My school was a crip schoolmainly.
It was mainly crips.
They stepped in right in thegym and I was like I ain't,
we're all red ever again.
But what was wild about newmexico was that you know, it was
(22:31):
a coming of age, a day.
You know of me, you knowlearning a lot of networking, or
what I thought was networking.
Because that's where the loveof hip-hop really got a hold of
me.
Because I was so homesick fromnew york I was a yo mtb raps
people die hard I ran home justso I could see it.
(22:53):
And then that's back when pumpit Up was on TV with Dee Barnes.
Whatever New Mexico radio wasplaying hip-hop, I would be on
it.
I would win tickets to places.
I would take my homeboys withme.
One time I won tickets.
My mom used to do that when welived in New York.
(23:13):
Wbls and KISS banned her fromwinning because she won so much.
They put her on timeout.
They was like no, she was goingsuper fast, she was going
everything, bro.
I picked that up from her, Istarted calling in and I was
winning.
One time I won tickets to seeThird Base KMD.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I know Jeff.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Um, I don't know if you remember, uh, deaf Jeff back
in the day on the West coast,deaf Jeff, they, they, they were
all performing at university ofNew Mexico.
So we went down there and thisis my first time ever being
rappers.
So we go down there and theyoutside chilling, they, they
outside the venue hollering atgirls because the 12 buses is
(24:03):
out there.
They out there just holleringat girls.
And I remember running up on mcsearch and he had, he had zed
love x with him, who ended upbecoming mf doom, and I was
talking about new New York andall that and they was like you
ain't from no New York, butyou're doing out in Africa,
where you from.
In Brooklyn and I broke it downLink it between Washington and
(24:25):
Underhill.
You got to take the two or thethree to Eastern Park.
They was like, oh, he know, heknow he really is from New York.
So I was just letting them knowand they gave me love.
I remember zev was like man,what the fuck you doing out here
though he was like yo shit outhere, man, damn you way out,
like when you going back I waslike I don't know.
At that point we didn't know,but it was, it was bugged out
(24:47):
that the first rappers I meet islike mc search and zev loving.
I told search the story he'scracking up.
I told I told mf doom thisstory too when I interviewed him
and my heart is broken becauseI cannot find that tape.
Wow, I cannot find the tape.
So tell me about coming back toNew York and getting your first
internship at Vibe correct.
(25:08):
I'm still looking for thatfucking tape.
Tell me about that.
I can't find it.
And it was a dope interview.
Okay, yeah, I jumped, I jumped,jumped, we left we.
Okay, yeah, I jumped, I jumped,jumped, we left.
We left albuquerque, new mexicoin 91.
But the summer in 91 I'll comehome.
So imagine, like coming home,june, july, it's popping, it's
hot, new york is on fire.
I think at the time, like chubbrock was like picking it up
(25:32):
with word.
God bless how it made, how wesee it was like the city was on
fire, man.
That's why everybody waswalking around with the Bart
Simpson shirts and, you know,like twists in their head and
you know it was like the tailend of like the African
medallion era.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
So that's when I got home and you know my stepdad is
from Harlem, so I spent a lot oftime up in Harlem, like 145th
and St Nick and you know.
But I'm a Best Buy kid too.
So also my biological dad isfrom Brevoit Projects, where Fab
is from, excuse me.
So I would be over there on theweekends, yeah, and then around
(26:10):
my way where my mom is from, inProspect Heights.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So it was tough man.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, you came back to the real New York Just think
I didn't have all my New Yorkswag together, even though this
is the funny part, jeff.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I'm not really Brooklyn, like I thought I was.
I'm in New.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Mexico.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I'm Mr New.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
York.
I'm Mr Brooklyn, you know whatI'm saying.
I got back to Brooklyn and Iwas not, that I was not, I
wasn't ready.
My cousins Okay, my cousins,man.
They used to snap on me socrazy how I had my sneakers side
.
I was fly, though, because Iwould still rock like a Syracuse
(26:55):
Orange man outfit.
You know, shit was dope, butlike my kicks might not have
been all the way there.
You know what I'm saying andthat's why I'm so kick conscious
.
That's why I got a millionfucking sneakers in there.
Now they gave me a complex.
They gave me a sneaker complex,no pun.
But they got me together quick,because that summer I was going
(27:17):
to enroll into Murray Bertrambecause Tribe Called Quest went
there and I heard it was a goodschool.
I wanted to go.
My mom used to work over thereby Penn Police Plaza, so I was
like, ok, I'll go there.
It was like, nah, can't get inhere.
They went and take my gradesfrom New Mexico and Japan for
some reason and I was like whatthey didn't like correlate or
(27:39):
whatever.
So I never got in the BernieBertram.
So I ended up going to Sarah J,which was where Lil' Kim, big
Daddy, kane, biz all of themwent there.
So I went there, which was sodope, ended up meeting my wife
there, who was my girlfriend atthe time, and just being back in
Brooklyn, man was especiallygoing to high school in Brooklyn
(28:00):
.
You had to be tough.
You never knew when shit wasgonna pop off, because shit
always was popping off.
Something was happening.
Somebody had beef, or somebodyain't like you, or your jacket
was flyer than somebody else's.
You know, whatever it be,whatever it may be, but I
survived it.
I survived it and excelled init.
You know what I'm saying.
(28:21):
It was a, it was a beautifultime, man, but I fell in love
with hip hop so much that I usedto buy every hip hop like I
(28:43):
don't know magazine.
Are you going to be a critic?
Are you going to make beats?
Because I was making beats,doing all of that.
You know what I'm saying.
Oh, jeff, you good.
Oh man, hey, ellie is Jeff good, I can't hear you, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I don't know, I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I was looking.
I was like yo, he ain't movingyet I don't know what happened?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, we'll pick it up, we'll pick it up from there.
Okay, we'll pick it up fromthere.
So, basically, you know, when Iwas in high school, that's
where the love of like hip-hopreally blossomed.
Because I was gonna yeah,because I was buying like every
magazine.
I'm back home, home now, I canlook at video music box.
Ralph McDaniels is telling youwhere the next party going to be
(29:28):
.
I was sneaking in shout outs, Iwas sneaking in the joints.
We going to the art, we goingto, you know, the solo club
uptown, the country club.
We getting in there.
We was getting in the industryparties, meeting Puff and
meeting all these differentpeople, because we was also like
I was producing these dudes outof Brooklyn called the Foot
(29:49):
Soldiers and I was making beats.
But I was also like excellingin English in high school to the
point where my English teacherwas like, yo, you should look at
this as a career.
That's what gave me the idea,because I was already reading
vibe and you know really what Iwas reading.
(30:09):
I was, I was reading aboutsource, of course, but I was
also reading ebony essence okay,jet esquire, gq, rolling stone
billboard.
All these spots that spin, allthese spots that I ended up
working with.
It's like I felt like, you know, once I started working with
(30:30):
all of them, I'm like dad, Ireally manifested this, or I
drew it closer to me because ofthe energy, and you know, lo and
behold, I get my internship atVOB.
And who's the editor?
At that time when you got theinternship.
At that time.
96, daniel.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Smith.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, daniel was the editor-in-chief at the time and
it was wild man and I was on thedigital what they used to call
it back then New media.
They used to call it new mediaback then and that was like all
the misfits they used to callour section of projects.
(31:11):
We was involved, but we wasdownstairs on the second floor
and we were all the way in theback by the mail room and they
had us like the new media castthat was working on websites,
that was working on the Vibewebsite.
But they also had these otherthings called e-zines, like
electronic magazines that werelike subsidiaries.
(31:33):
My internship wasn't even withVibe, it was with one of the
e-zines under vibe.
It was with the suicide With myman, greg Bishop, who ended up
becoming the small businesscontroller for de Blasio.
Yeah, he ended up becoming thatand that's my bro.
Changed my life.
(31:53):
Man, changed my life,incredible individual man.
And then when he left, likeafter a couple of months of me
being there, I was like yo, Igot to leave too.
I had no idea how the businesswas and he was like nah, nah,
nah, you good, you good, nah,just come in.
And I was so scared that firstday he wasn't there, I went in
and I had been there for months.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
I had done the whole summer.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
He left in the fall, I think, and everybody knew me.
I was just like damn, gregain't here and next thing, you
know, they just let me do moreand more and I started doing
like interviews.
I think one of my first firstinterviews was with Jada Pink,
not Jada.
I'm bugging why I say Jada NotJada.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Mia.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Long.
Mia Long was like one of myfirst ones and she was from
Brooklyn and a lot of the other.
The other interview I rememberI had to walk in there.
This is me.
This is like maybe my secondinterview, third interview
professionally, and I'm anintern and they sent me to the
Love Jones like junket, and Iain't know what a junket was, I
(32:56):
had no idea.
And then I guess the junket waslike running behind.
So they was like all right, nomore individual interviews, all
y'all gotta go in together.
So it was me like somebody fromrolling stone, somebody from
wherever the hell else you knowwhat I mean.
And I'm in there and I I guess Iimpressed her and the publicist
(33:18):
, um for that a little bit morethan everybody else because I
think she was from brooklyn.
So then I started talking aboutlike kingston avenue, she's
like kingston, she's so good.
She for that a little bit morethan everybody else because I
knew she was from Brooklyn.
So then I started talking aboutlike Kingston Avenue.
She was like Kingston.
She started bugging like.
I was like oh shit.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, I got it.
Now I was like I got it, I gotit, I got it.
That's my homegirl now.
Y'all know about this.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
That's my girl now.
You know it was funny and itmade me realize, like my, my
authenticity or who I am as aperson and and all the things
that make up who I am and mytravels.
I can use that as an advantagein these kind of situations.
Whereas they were all like sohow was?
(33:56):
the director and what was thescript like when you got it?
Like nah, man, like yo, how'dyou, how did you feel when you
had to embrace your boy and andreally get into that character?
What part of you was in thatoutside of the character, like
shit, like that.
Like it was just like trying todraw like the emotional aspect
(34:19):
out of them and they wasn'ttalking like like that, they
were talking very technical andhigh-brow, yeah yeah, and I was
like asking questions, like ifwe was on the block.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, exactly Like yo , yo, yo yo.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, yo like yo, so we on again Like that type of
stuff.
But that opened up a whole doorfor me.
And then one day one of theother interns we had an intern
room involved on the secondfloor.
We had turntables in there.
Everybody would go take theirbreaks in there, just bug out,
play records and shit.
And one day it was packed inthat room.
It was packed in there.
(34:53):
It must have been like eight ornine of us in there and my man
Rich, my man Rich, he was inthere and he was talking like yo
.
I just got this card fromReginald Dennis.
Reginald Dennis at the time wasknown for being at the source
they had just had that bigwalkout from the source.
I was just like, all right,that's what's up.
(35:16):
Man, I used to love his card,reginald Dennis.
He used to be.
I remember he was in beef withiced tea and Tret.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
He was going in on them all the time, no holds
barred.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
He was kind of like Star Charlemagne Y'all don't
know about him.
Anyway, I told him I was likeyo, you going to call him?
He was like, nah, he just gaveme his card.
He's starting some new thingcalled XXL.
I was like what what's that?
He was like it's like a new hiphop magazine or something.
(35:51):
He was saying I was like hejust gave you his card.
He was like yeah, he told me tocall him.
I was like you going to callhim.
He was like you going to callhim.
I was like yeah, he said whenyou going to call?
I said I'm going to call himnow and the room is like just
imagine nine people interns atVibe, like bugging.
So I used Vibe phones and Itook the card from my man, rich,
(36:14):
right there in front of themand I dialed the number.
My man picks up.
He was like Reggie.
I was like, uh, mr picks up, hewas like reggie.
I was like, uh, mr dennis.
He was like yes.
I was like, oh, this is daytronthomas from vibe magazine.
I had no idea that it's wingingit.
I didn't know the boundaries.
You know like it's.
(36:34):
It's like, yeah, north versussouth.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I had no idea and Ishould have known.
Like how many people he knew upthere.
You know what I'm saying?
That, vibe, I had no idea.
I'm new to the game, so anyway,I'm telling him what I do.
I, vibe, I'm embellishing heavy.
Oh yeah, I make sure the copylooks good.
(36:56):
Yeah, for the easy.
I do it for the press junketsfor the movies.
Yeah, I got it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do it, allit's my home, you know what I'm
saying, like that's my girl, youknow, shit like that.
And he was like where he was,like where you from.
I was like I'm from brooklyn.
He was like you know what, comesee me.
(37:16):
I was like where.
He was like, yeah, come see me.
Um, come see me like onthursday it must have been like
a Monday or something and I waslike, all right, all right, cool
, I'll have my clips andeverything.
So I took all the things that Iwrote for Vibe Online at the
time, asked my grandma for somemoney and then my man that
worked there he designed it forme put it together, my man, mike
(37:37):
Horsworth.
He put it together for me and Iwent and got that money from my
grandmother to get it printedreal nice, because the vibe
printers was all messed up.
I went over to HarrisPublications.
I went there and he was there.
He was ready.
I got there.
I'll never forget.
I got there at 5.30.
(37:58):
He told me to get there at 5.30.
I got there at 5.30.
I didn't leave till 8.30.
Neither one of us got up inthree hours that.
We sat right there and thatthree hour conversation, me and
Reginald, just because I hadretained so much from the source
and I knew so much from vibeand I knew certain articles.
(38:21):
I knew writers by lines, I andI knew certain articles.
I knew writers' bylines, I knewtheir style.
I knew all the new artists thatwere coming out because I would
listen to all the differenttapes and everything that was
coming in.
Plus, I was a student ofStretch and Bobbito and Martin
Moore's radio shows.
There was nothing you could getby me.
I knew everything.
So he was so impressed mind you, I'm trying to show him my
(38:45):
clips and he ain't even want tosee him.
He was like nah, man, nah, nah,nah, don't worry about that,
put that away.
He was like no, you got it.
You got it because he, he couldyeah I was on it.
So then he was like it was timeto go.
It got dark.
It was 8 30, it got dark andthis is like around my birthday
time in may and, um, I'm aboutto leave.
(39:07):
He was like yo, I got, I gotsome, I got some work for you,
oh, and I hadn't been told thattype of way before.
I didn't know what freelancewas.
I was just working at bob as anintern, so I didn't understand.
I understand what, I understoodwhat freelancer was, but I
didn't know how much you weresupposed to get, how many words
and all that.
He was like yo, I got two musicreviews for you that I need.
(39:29):
I need Organized Confusion andDeep Concentration.
I'll never forget them.
And I was like I bet DeepConcentration was like a DJ
compilation album and, of course, organized Confusion was.
Farrow March and I went andborrowed my man Donald's laptop
from downstairs that liveddownstairs from me.
(39:51):
I have a computer.
I was like, damn, I can't getinto the school.
I was going to do it at Baruch.
I was going to go back toBaruch and try to knock him out,
but for some reason I couldn'tget over there.
(40:12):
So I ended up asking my man thatlived downstairs from me, crazy
Jamaican, like what you need itfor, boy, bring it back.
So I remember that yo, I waslike no, I ain't gonna mess with
it.
I got you, I got you, I typedit up and I ended up sending it
back to him.
I got it back to him.
He was like I got anotherreview for you Got to do no ID.
There was no IDs solo album.
(40:35):
I believe I did.
I did those three reviews andthen he was like I bet I got I
got a feature for you.
I was like, well, he was likeyeah, I probably pay you.
Like.
And I was like where he waslike, yeah, I probably pay you.
Like now, mind you, I just leftthe New York Public Library.
I was making like $110 a weekhelping literate adults learn
how to read, write and usecomputers.
I was making like $110, maybe,$110, maybe, maybe.
(40:58):
And he was like yo, I pay youlike $1,500 for this feature.
I was like $1,500, $1,500, howmany words I gotta do it?
He was like yo, I pay you like$1,500 for this feature.
I was like $1,500?
$1,500?
How many words I got to do?
He was like 900, 1,000 words,maybe.
I was like what's the feature.
He was like it's on enhancedCDs.
That's the new shit that'scoming.
It's coming I was like wordEnhanced CDs.
(41:18):
Remember those.
I remember Mobb Deep and ExhibitExhibiting them.
They had it first.
Now here's where it gets crazy.
Now, mind you, I'm still goingback and forth to Vibe, but I'm
messing with XXL, but I'm goingback and forth to Vibe.
Vibe and Loud Records are afloor away from each other in
(41:40):
the same building.
I think we was on two and threeand they were on four and five
or something like that.
And I would always see ProdigyOlu who did all their creative
direction, who made all thealbum covers and stuff.
Bones Malone of course had Vibeand Loud.
So Wu-Tang Dudes is walking allthe time.
(42:04):
So with enhanced cds, the peoplethat was really making the
headway up when it was loudrecords.
So I was like, oh, I'm gonna goupstairs, go see olu go
upstairs.
I interview olu and he'sexplaining like enhanced cds and
how they did mob deeps and howthey did exhibits.
I'm getting like the insider,insider information.
Boom, I take that, write thepiece up.
(42:26):
Then I break down all thedifferent enhanced cds and
giving them xls or ls orwhatever, and reggie was like
blown away.
He was like how'd you get thisinformation from?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
me I was like I went upstairs, I took an elevator up
one flight.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
you know it just so happened Like come on, man, it
just so happened, like it workedin my favor in that way and
that's what started my careerand that was in the Jay-Z and
Master P first issue of XXL.
And then I ended up gettinghired.
I mean, yo who's Miss Info Regended up getting hired.
(43:04):
I mean, yo who's Miss Info Regended up leaving, like just
before the third issue and shewas trying to close that issue.
And she was like yo, they wastalking about bringing you on
before they left, so if you wantto jump on, you can help me out
, close this issue.
I was like, yeah, and I endedup getting hired on staff from
that that's how I got on.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
That's a good, that's a, that's a being prepared and
like not, not really, but noteven really realizing you was
prepared, you was just doingwhat you love to do.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
That's it, man.
Just being a young hip hop.
Yeah, being a head, being ahead.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
So so wait, so yeah, okay, so tell me when they
bought you on.
They bought you on as musiceditor.
Editor correct.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
They bought me in as, like, a junior editor because
the music editor slot hadn'tbeen filled yet.
So what was ironic, though thisis what's so dope about my
journey, my man that ended upbecoming like my best friend, my
man black spot.
Larry black spot Hester.
He was like um, our editor overat Vibe Digital, so I had him.
(44:05):
That was my guy.
So him and Sheena Lester, whowas the music editor at Vibe,
they ended up leaving Vibetogether to come to XXL.
When Sheena got the offer tobecome the editor-in-chief after
Reggie and them left, hebrought Black Spot with her.
She asked him to come with her.
(44:26):
And when he came, I'm like yo, Igot my boy with me and he
became the music, yeah, and hebecame the music editor and then
I became the assistant musiceditor.
Yup, I got bumped up anyway,and they couldn't believe that I
knew them.
They were like you know, thesepeople, Like the people that you
know, the publishers.
They couldn't believe that Iknew them already.
It's a small circle.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, everybody knew everybody, especially back then.
It's like that many peopledoing those jobs, it's like you
know, come on, it's kind of hardto it was different.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
It's not like how it is today.
Not at all.
You know what I'm saying?
Not at all.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
That was part one of our conversation with Daytuan
Thomas.
Stay tuned next week for parttwo.
You can catch Mixed andMastered on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend I'm
your host, jeffrey.
Today, on Mixed and Mastered, we're joined by
Daytuan Thomas, an architect ofhip-hop and R&B media.
Starting with launching XXL'sfreshman issue, founding the
iconic King magazine, thenbecoming editor-in-chief at Vibe
magazine, daytuan has spent hiscareer shaping culture.
He then brought that vision toDick Clark Productions,
(00:23):
producing television and liveevents, including the American
Music Awards, Billboard's MusicAwards and New Year's Rockin'
Eve.
This is Mixed and Mastered withDaytuan Thomas.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,a podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
(00:47):
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and MasteredMixed and Mastered with my man.
(01:08):
What's goody?
Daytuan Toms?
I ain't seen in a minute man.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I know, man.
It's been a while, bro.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
It's been a while we see each other pretty much every
week when I walk down to theking offices Exactly have our
debates Right up the block,right up the street, right you
know what's so crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Do you remember what they used to call that block?
Nah, they used to call itShotgun Alley, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
That block had the Harris publication, which is
King Magazine, and XXL.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Slam everything.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Slam.
They had Jimmy Hinchman.
Peace to Jimmy Hinchman.
His office was there.
Had Violator slam everythingslam that jimmy hitchman, piece
of jimmy hitchman, right therehad violator, yep yep.
All that was going on but allthat one little block between,
uh, what was that?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
56 yep, I remember one time when jimmy came out his
building.
Jimmy hitchman and his crewcame out.
Jimmy came out his building,jimmy Hitchman and his crew came
out and Chris.
Lighty and his crew came outand that parking lot, at that
parking lot man and I was aboutto walk to my car, I was like,
oh no, no, no.
It looked like a Westernshowdown.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That was, that was.
That was I've had a lot of, um,I've had a lot.
I mean I that was.
I've had a lot of, I've had alot.
I'm going to start expandingmore to the West Coast, but I've
had a lot of New York guests sofar Talking about like we
always talk about, like how itwas da-da-da-da back in the day.
It was different times.
(02:38):
Let's get going, let's go.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yes, indeed, you want to raise the.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yes, indeed, brooklyn kid man.
This is wow.
It's funny that we're talkingabout that.
Now there's this author thatjust put a book out called the
Gods of New York, JonathanMahler, and he did it on the
(03:06):
years of 19, 1990, and how thosewere the most crucial years in
New York City because of thecrack epidemic and Bernard Goard
, getz and tawana broadly, andyou know, central park five, the
exonerator five now and um, Ibring that up because I was born
in brooklyn and raised thereuntil 1986 and then, which is
where the book starts, and hestarts there because he said
that was the beginning of likethe end of the old new york.
(03:30):
It started to become, like, youknow, drug city and crack and
epidemic and all that.
And my mom, I think she felt itand, uh, she was, um, she was a
secretary at one police plazafor the police commissioner,
yeah, and she had met my stepdadand he was in the Air Force and
he was like yo, I'm beingdeployed to Japan.
(03:53):
She was like I'm with it.
I got to bring my son.
He was like bring him, and hewas out.
And they got married and we wasout October 86.
And we went to Tokyo, japan,like just just outside of Tokyo,
we went to Yokota Air ForceBase, which is actually in Fusa,
and I lived there for threestraight years, man and enjoy
(04:14):
the luxuries that my family herein New York.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It was going to do it .
Speaker 2 (04:21):
That was a you know getting all these letters from
my cousins telling me who gotshot and what happened to this
one, who got locked up.
This felt like a nod song youknow what I'm saying and, um, as
much as I miss being home, itwasn't until I got back home at
the end of 89 that I realizedwhat she had taken me away from.
(04:45):
That probably saved my life,because you know the guys that I
was running with before we leftand we were young.
We was young, we was like whatwas I?
I was 11 and it was stillpopping at 11.
It was crazy.
You know what I mean.
And the main guys that I waswith during that time.
I hate to say it, but you knowwhat I mean.
And the main guys that I waswith during that time.
I hate to say, but you know,yeah, jail or dead.
(05:09):
And and it hurts, because it'salways like that survivor's
guilt or remorse or whatever.
And you wonder, like what, ifshe didn't do that, what would
happen to me?
Yes, I was with them every day.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Even if you wasn't super wild and just being with
them.
You would have been involved insomething just by being there.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Involved in just my block.
I remember growing up one timeand I'm still trying to find
this article.
It was in the New York Timesand they had called Lincoln
Place, which is where I'm from.
I'm from Lincoln Place aroundthe corner from the Brooklyn
museum and prospect Heights,lincoln place between Washington
and under Hill.
They called it wild, wild Westor crack kingdom.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Call it crack kingdom and I was like damn, and I used
to just see you know, you seethe vows and everything.
You don't think about itbecause it's a part of everyday
life, but it was like it wasexcessive where we were and I
knew all the hustlers.
We knew all the dudes, all thefly drug dealers and everything.
We knew all of them.
They used to look out for the,for the young kids on the block
(06:16):
like us, so it wasn't like wedemonized them, we kind of
looked up to them.
You know they coming throughwith with the cars and the gear,
sneakers and outfits and chains, and they got the gear.
They send you to the store.
Keep the change, yeah, all that.
You know what I mean.
So I think about those times.
It was a beautiful time growingup before then though yeah,
(06:38):
even though we don't realizeyou're broke you know what I'm
saying?
you ain't realize, you don'trealize it.
You don't realize as long asyou can get a quarter water and
some cheese you're good moneyCheese dude with the cheese dude
.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Were you a crunchy dude or were you a puffy dude?
I was a puffy dude.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I was a crunchy dude.
I know most people like thepuffies, but I would have ate
them joints if you had them.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's funny, so wait .
So tell me a little bit moreabout Tokyo because I didn't
realize that you lived there forthree years.
Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, man, it was beautiful man when we got to the
base and I had a very, veryunique experience in Japan
because for some reason somebodyin the in the housing
department did not mess with us.
You know, like, imagine if youhad over there, but it was for
the, it was for the base.
(07:31):
It was like when you first getthere they might not have like
an apartment or a home for youyet.
So you live in something calledBilliton for like a month or
maybe at the most three months,while they're trying to figure
out where they're going to placeyou.
And if they don't find a spotfor you in in those three months
, then you have to go.
You and your family have to golive off base, like right
(07:55):
outside the gates of the base.
So now you're in japan proper,like without any americanized
yeah, yeah, anything ormarketing or whatever.
It's all Japanese.
So we ended up living in ahousing complex.
Looks like the projects, it wascalled Caesars and it was right
(08:15):
over the gate of the flightline for the Air Force planes to
come in.
So I used to wake up to C-130big planes with the two
propellers or a C-5 big, that'slike 747 size planes flying
right by my window every I don'tknow 10, 12 hours, whenever
(08:38):
they was coming in and hearthese engines roar and see the
fire come out of them and stuff.
It was crazy.
So we used to live across fromthat, whereas most of my friends
live further down and they were, as we're talking about the
planes that's a helicopter.
most of my friends lived on baseand they were able to look at
(08:59):
like american tv.
They could catch the cosby show.
They phones.
I had a phone for three yearsin my house.
I had no American.
Three years I had no phone inmy house because we was just
like.
It made no sense.
What were we going to call?
We was going to call ourJapanese friends.
It was crazy.
It wasn't no internet ornothing like that.
(09:20):
If you went to school and youwanted to hook up over the
weekend, somebody told you wherethey was going to be at one
o'clock.
You had to be there.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying,because if not, you're going to
miss them.
You know, and I used to ride mybike everywhere.
It was so safe.
My mom went from not wanting meto be outside in Brooklyn on
the block to go ahead.
(09:41):
And I'm in like Shinjukusomewhere.
I'm hopping trains, I'm ridingmad far with a group of American
kids we stealing all types ofstuff, just being dumb Americans
coming back, you know, likeshowing off what you got.
So did you learn?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
to speak any Japanese .
There it was crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
We was wild, but I did.
When I was out out there it wasway more fluent for me because
not only was I learning thelanguage off base and some of
the kids that lived around thejapanese kids that lived around
the complex, they would teachyou all the dirty words and how
(10:20):
to say nasty stuff.
You know this is regular kidstuff, but in in our school, in
our elementary school, I went tosixth grade to ninth grade.
There, in sixth grade you hadto learn it and you had to do
like calligraphy and stuff.
We had to like write river asthe symbol and then he'll be
(10:40):
like river and you got to draw ariver out and you pick it up
like that.
You know, just living off base,little things like ordering
ramen, noodles or whatever.
You want to speak it in thenative language so they could
understand you and get it rightfor you.
You know what I mean.
I used to live.
Right behind me was a bus depot,so imagine like a Greyhound
(11:03):
stop behind my building and theyhad like everything for people.
It was like a rest stop forpeople and me and my boys that
lived in the complex we would gooutside, go downstairs on like
Saturdays and Sundays and bebreak dancing for money, and the
Japanese people would be comingfrom all over.
They would be fascinated A lotof times.
(11:26):
This is their first time seeinga black person in life ever
like in person.
Not looking, because out therethe marketing was like three
people, maybe four, the fourthone, the maybe fourth was eddie
murphy, but the three majorsthat you was going to always see
on like billboards and they wasgetting money out there in
(11:47):
Japan on like candy bars andmilk and all that.
Mike Tyson, the three Mike.
Michael Jordan, michael Jackson,three mics, the same biggie
line, like it was them, and thenEddie Murphy here and there.
And then I remember when RunDMC came, run DMC them, and then
eddie murphy here and there andthen, um, I remember when run
(12:08):
dmc came, run dmc or like publicenemy, I can't remember which
one I think about, it was rundmc.
Run dmc got to japan and it waslike crazy, like it was all
over the news, like they werejust it was like what it was.
Like the beatles came you knowwhat I'm saying for them saying
yeah, man, it was an incrediblething, like we used to break
dance.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
They used to want to feel our hair Because we had, I
mean, my flat part, was crazy.
It was crazy.
It was crazy.
I had a crazy flat top.
Yeah, People would be likeexcuse me, excuse me, that's the
only thing they could say.
They'd be like touch, touch,like they want to touch your
head.
Crazy, it was one, wow, wow,wow.
(12:49):
Experience, though, we went on aclass trip and I can share this
with you, jeff man, this jointis crazy.
We went on a class trip and, um, our classes were really
diverse, man, like being inJapan and being on the air force
base, you would meet the mostamazingly create not even
creative the most amazinglycultured mix of people Like you
(13:13):
would have someone that was likeGerman and Taiwanese, because
the dad went to Taiwan, marriedthe mom, you know, they have a
kid and they they tie in Germanlike it was crazy.
So a bunch of my friends werelike that, but there were only a
few of us that were like fullblack kids, you know, and you
knew it when you saw us, becausethey were also different.
(13:34):
So we go on this class trip.
We're like a little bit southof tokyo and we go into this one
store and this store has likeall the like black oppression,
coon era, like all of thetrinkets I'm talking, like the
black face joints.
It looked like you stepped intoa scene of bamboozle.
You know what I'm saying?
(13:55):
It was spike lee joint and thepeople were looking at us and
they started talking in japaneseand we didn't understand it as
much as one of my my boys out.
He looked fully white, but hewas.
He was half japanese too.
His mom's was japanese, so heknew it fluently.
So he came up to me and my manmike, and was like yo, they
talking heavy about y'all.
He's like what?
(14:17):
And we wondering why?
You know, of course they'regonna look at us, but it's a
bunch of school kids in there,it's a bunch of us.
They were like he, he talkingcrazy about y'all.
He was like what are youtalking about?
He's like yo, they wonderingwhere your tail is at.
I was like what that tail?
It was like yeah, man, he'stalking about, y'all got tails.
Like he heard, y'all got tails.
(14:38):
So that's why he keep wantingy'all to turn around, like they
was looking to see if we wouldturn around and see if they
could see our tails.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Because he was like oh it was crazy.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
He's breaking down what they say and they don't
even realize what they say.
And so then they must have saidsomething so off base I don't
even know what they said.
They must have said somethingcrazy.
He bugged out on them and toldthe teacher, and then the
teacher went and spoke to them.
It was like a little mini thingand yeah, man, it was kind of
bugged out and it just shows youlike the culture clash, you
(15:13):
know what I mean?
Like we went and think, yeah,this is the 80s, this is like 87
.
You know what I'm saying?
I'm like 12.
So it just shows you theculture clash and it also shows
you like what is depicted comingout of America about black
people during that time.
You know civil rights era isjust ended and you know a lot of
(15:34):
the people over there duringthat time they still didn't like
Americans for what happened toHiroshima, especially the elders
.
They was not trying to hear it.
They gave black people a littlemore of a pass, but it was.
It was like wow, they did that.
And that was just the one realkind of like negative thing that
(15:54):
happened.
Everything else was likebeautiful bro, I had the best
time out there.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
And we'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Welcome to Merrick Studios, where stories take the
mic and culture comes alive.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
We're not just a network, we're family, bringing
you smart, soulful, unfilteredconversations.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
In this season, we're bringing the heat with our
biggest lineup yet.
Whatever you're into music,sports business, we got you
covered.
Merrick Studios, where theconversation starts and keeps
going.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Check out our full lineup, including Unglossy, with
Bun B, Jeffrey Sledge andmyself, Tom Fran Now streaming
at wearemerrickstudioscom.
Master the art of lyricism withPendulum Inc, the first school
for rap.
Learn elite techniques throughimmersive lessons, real world
exercises and guidance from hiphop icons.
This is where MC sharpen theirskills and glow boldly on the
(16:44):
mic.
Ready to level up?
Visit Pendulum Inccom and startyour journey today.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
And then long story short, real quick.
I went, I went, I went back toJapan and I left in 89, never
went back.
And then I always wanted to goback.
So Allen Iverson was doing his10-year anniversary for being in
the NBA and they wanted him togo to Asia.
(17:11):
So they asked me to come along.
I was the only journalist thatwent on this trip.
I went this is in September of2005.
Met him in the team in Dallasand we took a flight from Dallas
because he wanted to go to theDallas Cowboys game.
The Cowboys game first.
He was like yo, we're going togo to Japan and China, but I got
(17:32):
to do this game first.
He went to the Cowboys gamefirst, met us us at the airport
and we all went straight toTokyo.
We get to Tokyo I'm buggingEverybody knows by now Cause I
had told him that I used to livethere and I was trying to get
back to my crib but I was madfar away from it.
Where we were at, it was madfar.
So I was like damn, I ain'tgoing to get it my only time
(18:02):
being out here.
But I'm out here with alanrobinson, so I just chalked it
up like damn, it would have beendope if I could get there.
I was like hopefully in thefuture I'll come back.
So we leave tokyo and go to umshanghai, china, and have the
most amazing time and I forgetabout it.
But I'm still kind ofheartbroken because I was so
close to being able to go backto my crib.
That was 05 2011.
I get blessed with theopportunity to go on tour with
swv to chronicle their uh, theirexperience in japan.
(18:24):
So I go with them to japan andthey give us a free day to do
whatever you want and go around.
So part of that, that morning Iwent, I went shopping with them
and they picked out some stufffor my wife and everything guys
like bags.
Morning I went, I went shoppingwith them and they picked out
some stuff for my wife andeverything guys like bags like
we went.
We went crazy.
It was a dope experience justhaving them like no, she might
(18:46):
like this, she might like that.
And then I was like yo, youknow what, I think I can make it
to my old crib.
It was like you, you gonna goby yourself.
I was like, yeah, I, I rememberthe trains vaguely.
I was like I'm just gonna tryto try to speak my way through
it.
And by then we had google.
We had google maps.
By then in 05 I don't rememberhaving it, but in 11 we had it.
(19:08):
So I just plotted it out and Igot to the train station.
Wow, was speaking to differentjapanese people.
A bunch, bunch of people helpedme and I got to my old crib.
Man, I got and I recorded itfor my mom before she passed and
she was so excited.
She was like she couldn'tbelieve that I made it, cause I
called her.
I made it back to the crib Likethey let me in the crib.
(19:31):
The old lady that ran the, thatran the spot, that ran the
complex, she remembered me as akid.
Yeah, she remembered me.
She was like oh, da-da-da-da-da, trying to pitch my cheeks and
stuff like crazy, and she let mein.
She had the janitor in them.
They let me in.
I went into my room, I wentinto my sister's room, I went
(19:54):
into my parents' room.
I couldn't believe I made itback.
It was such a fulfillingfeeling, man.
It was crazy.
Yeah, well, this is what'scrazy.
I got back.
We got back in like 89.
I spent a month in New York.
Then my stepdad was like gotanother deployment, let's pack
(20:16):
it up, we're going to New Mexico.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I was like, yeah, Albuquerque.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I only heard of that in Bugs Bunny cartoons.
You know what I'm saying.
So we go, we go to Albuquerque.
My mom was like, oh, you wantto stay or you want to go.
I was like I really want tostay.
She was like I don't think youshould stay, stay.
It's kind of crazy because whenI, when we got back, this is
what made her make me go to newmexico.
(20:43):
When we got back, it wasoctober, it was mad cold, it was
like almost halloween yeah, youknow how back in?
the day halloween was, I wasoutside I had a carton of eggs,
yo, it was all types of stuff,man.
Then dudes ran out of eggs,they started.
They went down to the fishmarket.
(21:03):
As a crew went down to the fishmarket, stole all the fish, was
hitting people with redsnappers wow, because it's
Halloween, just if you outsidered snappers all across their
face, like it was crazy.
It was like a bunch of us withour cousins and stuff and they
all came back home and Iremember we was all talking
(21:24):
about what happened that day andmy mom was listening and she
was like, yeah, you gotta go,you ain't gonna be running
around going all crazy.
So went to New Mexico.
I was there for like a year anda half and that was tough
because it was such a cultureclash.
Coming back to America, it wasraw.
You know what I'm saying.
Like in Japan everything is allsweet and beautiful and rosy,
(21:48):
but it was raw, man.
And you know I've said this acouple of times, but just
explaining what, the situationwas out there.
It was gang life, you know.
It was Bloods and Crips and Ihad yeah, but that was yeah we
close to the West Coast, so Ihad seen like colors and all
that, but I really didn't know,not knowing what that meant.
(22:10):
You know what I mean, thatlevel, yeah.
So one day I went to schoolwith all red on, not knowing.
My school was a crip schoolmainly.
It was mainly crips.
They stepped in right in thegym and I was like I ain't,
we're all red ever again.
But what was wild about newmexico was that you know, it was
(22:31):
a coming of age, a day.
You know of me, you knowlearning a lot of networking, or
what I thought was networking.
Because that's where the loveof hip-hop really got a hold of
me.
Because I was so homesick fromnew york I was a yo mtb raps
people die hard I ran home justso I could see it.
(22:53):
And then that's back when pumpit Up was on TV with Dee Barnes.
Whatever New Mexico radio wasplaying hip-hop, I would be on
it.
I would win tickets to places.
I would take my homeboys withme.
One time I won tickets.
My mom used to do that when welived in New York.
(23:13):
Wbls and KISS banned her fromwinning because she won so much.
They put her on timeout.
They was like no, she was goingsuper fast, she was going
everything, bro.
I picked that up from her, Istarted calling in and I was
winning.
One time I won tickets to seeThird Base KMD.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I know Jeff.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Um, I don't know if you remember, uh, deaf Jeff back
in the day on the West coast,deaf Jeff, they, they, they were
all performing at university ofNew Mexico.
So we went down there and thisis my first time ever being
rappers.
So we go down there and theyoutside chilling, they, they
outside the venue hollering atgirls because the 12 buses is
(24:03):
out there.
They out there just holleringat girls.
And I remember running up on mcsearch and he had, he had zed
love x with him, who ended upbecoming mf doom, and I was
talking about new New York andall that and they was like you
ain't from no New York, butyou're doing out in Africa,
where you from.
In Brooklyn and I broke it downLink it between Washington and
(24:25):
Underhill.
You got to take the two or thethree to Eastern Park.
They was like, oh, he know, heknow he really is from New York.
So I was just letting them knowand they gave me love.
I remember zev was like man,what the fuck you doing out here
though he was like yo shit outhere, man, damn you way out,
like when you going back I waslike I don't know.
At that point we didn't know,but it was, it was bugged out
(24:47):
that the first rappers I meet islike mc search and zev loving.
I told search the story he'scracking up.
I told I told mf doom thisstory too when I interviewed him
and my heart is broken becauseI cannot find that tape.
Wow, I cannot find the tape.
So tell me about coming back toNew York and getting your first
internship at Vibe correct.
(25:08):
I'm still looking for thatfucking tape.
Tell me about that.
I can't find it.
And it was a dope interview.
Okay, yeah, I jumped, I jumped,jumped, we left we.
Okay, yeah, I jumped, I jumped,jumped, we left.
We left albuquerque, new mexicoin 91.
But the summer in 91 I'll comehome.
So imagine, like coming home,june, july, it's popping, it's
hot, new york is on fire.
I think at the time, like chubbrock was like picking it up
(25:32):
with word.
God bless how it made, how wesee it was like the city was on
fire, man.
That's why everybody waswalking around with the Bart
Simpson shirts and, you know,like twists in their head and
you know it was like the tailend of like the African
medallion era.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
So that's when I got home and you know my stepdad is
from Harlem, so I spent a lot oftime up in Harlem, like 145th
and St Nick and you know.
But I'm a Best Buy kid too.
So also my biological dad isfrom Brevoit Projects, where Fab
is from, excuse me.
So I would be over there on theweekends, yeah, and then around
(26:10):
my way where my mom is from, inProspect Heights.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So it was tough man.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, you came back to the real New York Just think
I didn't have all my New Yorkswag together, even though this
is the funny part, jeff.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I'm not really Brooklyn, like I thought I was.
I'm in New.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Mexico.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I'm Mr New.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
York.
I'm Mr Brooklyn, you know whatI'm saying.
I got back to Brooklyn and Iwas not, that I was not, I
wasn't ready.
My cousins Okay, my cousins,man.
They used to snap on me socrazy how I had my sneakers side
.
I was fly, though, because Iwould still rock like a Syracuse
(26:55):
Orange man outfit.
You know, shit was dope, butlike my kicks might not have
been all the way there.
You know what I'm saying andthat's why I'm so kick conscious
.
That's why I got a millionfucking sneakers in there.
Now they gave me a complex.
They gave me a sneaker complex,no pun.
But they got me together quick,because that summer I was going
(27:17):
to enroll into Murray Bertrambecause Tribe Called Quest went
there and I heard it was a goodschool.
I wanted to go.
My mom used to work over thereby Penn Police Plaza, so I was
like, ok, I'll go there.
It was like, nah, can't get inhere.
They went and take my gradesfrom New Mexico and Japan for
some reason and I was like whatthey didn't like correlate or
(27:39):
whatever.
So I never got in the BernieBertram.
So I ended up going to Sarah J,which was where Lil' Kim, big
Daddy, kane, biz all of themwent there.
So I went there, which was sodope, ended up meeting my wife
there, who was my girlfriend atthe time, and just being back in
Brooklyn, man was especiallygoing to high school in Brooklyn
(28:00):
.
You had to be tough.
You never knew when shit wasgonna pop off, because shit
always was popping off.
Something was happening.
Somebody had beef, or somebodyain't like you, or your jacket
was flyer than somebody else's.
You know, whatever it be,whatever it may be, but I
survived it.
I survived it and excelled init.
You know what I'm saying.
(28:21):
It was a, it was a beautifultime, man, but I fell in love
with hip hop so much that I usedto buy every hip hop like I
(28:43):
don't know magazine.
Are you going to be a critic?
Are you going to make beats?
Because I was making beats,doing all of that.
You know what I'm saying.
Oh, jeff, you good.
Oh man, hey, ellie is Jeff good, I can't hear you, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I don't know, I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I was looking.
I was like yo, he ain't movingyet I don't know what happened?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, we'll pick it up, we'll pick it up from there.
Okay, we'll pick it up fromthere.
So, basically, you know, when Iwas in high school, that's
where the love of like hip-hopreally blossomed.
Because I was gonna yeah,because I was buying like every
magazine.
I'm back home, home now, I canlook at video music box.
Ralph McDaniels is telling youwhere the next party going to be
(29:28):
.
I was sneaking in shout outs, Iwas sneaking in the joints.
We going to the art, we goingto, you know, the solo club
uptown, the country club.
We getting in there.
We was getting in the industryparties, meeting Puff and
meeting all these differentpeople, because we was also like
I was producing these dudes outof Brooklyn called the Foot
(29:49):
Soldiers and I was making beats.
But I was also like excellingin English in high school to the
point where my English teacherwas like, yo, you should look at
this as a career.
That's what gave me the idea,because I was already reading
vibe and you know really what Iwas reading.
(30:09):
I was, I was reading aboutsource, of course, but I was
also reading ebony essence okay,jet esquire, gq, rolling stone
billboard.
All these spots that spin, allthese spots that I ended up
working with.
It's like I felt like, you know, once I started working with
(30:30):
all of them, I'm like dad, Ireally manifested this, or I
drew it closer to me because ofthe energy, and you know, lo and
behold, I get my internship atVOB.
And who's the editor?
At that time when you got theinternship.
At that time.
96, daniel.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Smith.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, daniel was the editor-in-chief at the time and
it was wild man and I was on thedigital what they used to call
it back then New media.
They used to call it new mediaback then and that was like all
the misfits they used to callour section of projects.
(31:11):
We was involved, but we wasdownstairs on the second floor
and we were all the way in theback by the mail room and they
had us like the new media castthat was working on websites,
that was working on the Vibewebsite.
But they also had these otherthings called e-zines, like
electronic magazines that werelike subsidiaries.
(31:33):
My internship wasn't even withVibe, it was with one of the
e-zines under vibe.
It was with the suicide With myman, greg Bishop, who ended up
becoming the small businesscontroller for de Blasio.
Yeah, he ended up becoming thatand that's my bro.
Changed my life.
(31:53):
Man, changed my life,incredible individual man.
And then when he left, likeafter a couple of months of me
being there, I was like yo, Igot to leave too.
I had no idea how the businesswas and he was like nah, nah,
nah, you good, you good, nah,just come in.
And I was so scared that firstday he wasn't there, I went in
and I had been there for months.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
I had done the whole summer.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
He left in the fall, I think, and everybody knew me.
I was just like damn, gregain't here and next thing, you
know, they just let me do moreand more and I started doing
like interviews.
I think one of my first firstinterviews was with Jada Pink,
not Jada.
I'm bugging why I say Jada NotJada.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Mia.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Long.
Mia Long was like one of myfirst ones and she was from
Brooklyn and a lot of the other.
The other interview I rememberI had to walk in there.
This is me.
This is like maybe my secondinterview, third interview
professionally, and I'm anintern and they sent me to the
Love Jones like junket, and Iain't know what a junket was, I
(32:56):
had no idea.
And then I guess the junket waslike running behind.
So they was like all right, nomore individual interviews, all
y'all gotta go in together.
So it was me like somebody fromrolling stone, somebody from
wherever the hell else you knowwhat I mean.
And I'm in there and I I guess Iimpressed her and the publicist
(33:18):
, um for that a little bit morethan everybody else because I
think she was from brooklyn.
So then I started talking aboutlike kingston avenue, she's
like kingston, she's so good.
She for that a little bit morethan everybody else because I
knew she was from Brooklyn.
So then I started talking aboutlike Kingston Avenue.
She was like Kingston.
She started bugging like.
I was like oh shit.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, I got it.
Now I was like I got it, I gotit, I got it.
That's my homegirl now.
Y'all know about this.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
That's my girl now.
You know it was funny and itmade me realize, like my, my
authenticity or who I am as aperson and and all the things
that make up who I am and mytravels.
I can use that as an advantagein these kind of situations.
Whereas they were all like sohow was?
(33:56):
the director and what was thescript like when you got it?
Like nah, man, like yo, how'dyou, how did you feel when you
had to embrace your boy and andreally get into that character?
What part of you was in thatoutside of the character, like
shit, like that.
Like it was just like trying todraw like the emotional aspect
(34:19):
out of them and they wasn'ttalking like like that, they
were talking very technical andhigh-brow, yeah yeah, and I was
like asking questions, like ifwe was on the block.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, exactly Like yo , yo, yo yo.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, yo like yo, so we on again Like that type of
stuff.
But that opened up a whole doorfor me.
And then one day one of theother interns we had an intern
room involved on the secondfloor.
We had turntables in there.
Everybody would go take theirbreaks in there, just bug out,
play records and shit.
And one day it was packed inthat room.
It was packed in there.
(34:53):
It must have been like eight ornine of us in there and my man
Rich, my man Rich, he was inthere and he was talking like yo
.
I just got this card fromReginald Dennis.
Reginald Dennis at the time wasknown for being at the source
they had just had that bigwalkout from the source.
I was just like, all right,that's what's up.
(35:16):
Man, I used to love his card,reginald Dennis.
He used to be.
I remember he was in beef withiced tea and Tret.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
He was going in on them all the time, no holds
barred.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
He was kind of like Star Charlemagne Y'all don't
know about him.
Anyway, I told him I was likeyo, you going to call him?
He was like, nah, he just gaveme his card.
He's starting some new thingcalled XXL.
I was like what what's that?
He was like it's like a new hiphop magazine or something.
(35:51):
He was saying I was like hejust gave you his card.
He was like yeah, he told me tocall him.
I was like you going to callhim.
He was like you going to callhim.
I was like yeah, he said whenyou going to call?
I said I'm going to call himnow and the room is like just
imagine nine people interns atVibe, like bugging.
So I used Vibe phones and Itook the card from my man, rich,
(36:14):
right there in front of themand I dialed the number.
My man picks up.
He was like Reggie.
I was like, uh, mr picks up, hewas like reggie.
I was like, uh, mr dennis.
He was like yes.
I was like, oh, this is daytronthomas from vibe magazine.
I had no idea that it's wingingit.
I didn't know the boundaries.
You know like it's.
(36:34):
It's like, yeah, north versussouth.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I had no idea and Ishould have known.
Like how many people he knew upthere.
You know what I'm saying?
That, vibe, I had no idea.
I'm new to the game, so anyway,I'm telling him what I do.
I, vibe, I'm embellishing heavy.
Oh yeah, I make sure the copylooks good.
(36:56):
Yeah, for the easy.
I do it for the press junketsfor the movies.
Yeah, I got it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do it, allit's my home, you know what I'm
saying, like that's my girl, youknow, shit like that.
And he was like where he was,like where you from.
I was like I'm from brooklyn.
He was like you know what, comesee me.
(37:16):
I was like where.
He was like, yeah, come see me.
Um, come see me like onthursday it must have been like
a Monday or something and I waslike, all right, all right, cool
, I'll have my clips andeverything.
So I took all the things that Iwrote for Vibe Online at the
time, asked my grandma for somemoney and then my man that
worked there he designed it forme put it together, my man, mike
(37:37):
Horsworth.
He put it together for me and Iwent and got that money from my
grandmother to get it printedreal nice, because the vibe
printers was all messed up.
I went over to HarrisPublications.
I went there and he was there.
He was ready.
I got there.
I'll never forget.
I got there at 5.30.
(37:58):
He told me to get there at 5.30.
I got there at 5.30.
I didn't leave till 8.30.
Neither one of us got up inthree hours that.
We sat right there and thatthree hour conversation, me and
Reginald, just because I hadretained so much from the source
and I knew so much from vibeand I knew certain articles.
(38:21):
I knew writers by lines, I andI knew certain articles.
I knew writers' bylines, I knewtheir style.
I knew all the new artists thatwere coming out because I would
listen to all the differenttapes and everything that was
coming in.
Plus, I was a student ofStretch and Bobbito and Martin
Moore's radio shows.
There was nothing you could getby me.
I knew everything.
So he was so impressed mind you, I'm trying to show him my
(38:45):
clips and he ain't even want tosee him.
He was like nah, man, nah, nah,nah, don't worry about that,
put that away.
He was like no, you got it.
You got it because he, he couldyeah I was on it.
So then he was like it was timeto go.
It got dark.
It was 8 30, it got dark andthis is like around my birthday
time in may and, um, I'm aboutto leave.
(39:07):
He was like yo, I got, I gotsome, I got some work for you,
oh, and I hadn't been told thattype of way before.
I didn't know what freelancewas.
I was just working at bob as anintern, so I didn't understand.
I understand what, I understoodwhat freelancer was, but I
didn't know how much you weresupposed to get, how many words
and all that.
He was like yo, I got two musicreviews for you that I need.
(39:29):
I need Organized Confusion andDeep Concentration.
I'll never forget them.
And I was like I bet DeepConcentration was like a DJ
compilation album and, of course, organized Confusion was.
Farrow March and I went andborrowed my man Donald's laptop
from downstairs that liveddownstairs from me.
(39:51):
I have a computer.
I was like, damn, I can't getinto the school.
I was going to do it at Baruch.
I was going to go back toBaruch and try to knock him out,
but for some reason I couldn'tget over there.
(40:12):
So I ended up asking my man thatlived downstairs from me, crazy
Jamaican, like what you need itfor, boy, bring it back.
So I remember that yo, I waslike no, I ain't gonna mess with
it.
I got you, I got you, I typedit up and I ended up sending it
back to him.
I got it back to him.
He was like I got anotherreview for you Got to do no ID.
There was no IDs solo album.
(40:35):
I believe I did.
I did those three reviews andthen he was like I bet I got I
got a feature for you.
I was like, well, he was likeyeah, I probably pay you.
Like.
And I was like where he waslike, yeah, I probably pay you.
Like now, mind you, I just leftthe New York Public Library.
I was making like $110 a weekhelping literate adults learn
how to read, write and usecomputers.
I was making like $110, maybe,$110, maybe, maybe.
(40:58):
And he was like yo, I pay youlike $1,500 for this feature.
I was like $1,500, $1,500, howmany words I gotta do it?
He was like yo, I pay you like$1,500 for this feature.
I was like $1,500?
$1,500?
How many words I got to do?
He was like 900, 1,000 words,maybe.
I was like what's the feature.
He was like it's on enhancedCDs.
That's the new shit that'scoming.
It's coming I was like wordEnhanced CDs.
(41:18):
Remember those.
I remember Mobb Deep and ExhibitExhibiting them.
They had it first.
Now here's where it gets crazy.
Now, mind you, I'm still goingback and forth to Vibe, but I'm
messing with XXL, but I'm goingback and forth to Vibe.
Vibe and Loud Records are afloor away from each other in
(41:40):
the same building.
I think we was on two and threeand they were on four and five
or something like that.
And I would always see ProdigyOlu who did all their creative
direction, who made all thealbum covers and stuff.
Bones Malone of course had Vibeand Loud.
So Wu-Tang Dudes is walking allthe time.
(42:04):
So with enhanced cds, the peoplethat was really making the
headway up when it was loudrecords.
So I was like, oh, I'm gonna goupstairs, go see olu go
upstairs.
I interview olu and he'sexplaining like enhanced cds and
how they did mob deeps and howthey did exhibits.
I'm getting like the insider,insider information.
Boom, I take that, write thepiece up.
(42:26):
Then I break down all thedifferent enhanced cds and
giving them xls or ls orwhatever, and reggie was like
blown away.
He was like how'd you get thisinformation from?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
me I was like I went upstairs, I took an elevator up
one flight.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
you know it just so happened Like come on, man, it
just so happened, like it workedin my favor in that way and
that's what started my careerand that was in the Jay-Z and
Master P first issue of XXL.
And then I ended up gettinghired.
I mean, yo who's Miss Info Regended up getting hired.
(43:04):
I mean, yo who's Miss Info Regended up leaving, like just
before the third issue and shewas trying to close that issue.
And she was like yo, they wastalking about bringing you on
before they left, so if you wantto jump on, you can help me out
, close this issue.
I was like, yeah, and I endedup getting hired on staff from
that that's how I got on.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
That's a good, that's a, that's a being prepared and
like not, not really, but noteven really realizing you was
prepared, you was just doingwhat you love to do.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
That's it, man.
Just being a young hip hop.
Yeah, being a head, being ahead.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
So so wait, so yeah, okay, so tell me when they
bought you on.
They bought you on as musiceditor.
Editor correct.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
They bought me in as, like, a junior editor because
the music editor slot hadn'tbeen filled yet.
So what was ironic, though thisis what's so dope about my
journey, my man that ended upbecoming like my best friend, my
man black spot.
Larry black spot Hester.
He was like um, our editor overat Vibe Digital, so I had him.
(44:05):
That was my guy.
So him and Sheena Lester, whowas the music editor at Vibe,
they ended up leaving Vibetogether to come to XXL.
When Sheena got the offer tobecome the editor-in-chief after
Reggie and them left, hebrought Black Spot with her.
She asked him to come with her.
(44:26):
And when he came, I'm like yo, Igot my boy with me and he
became the music, yeah, and hebecame the music editor and then
I became the assistant musiceditor.
Yup, I got bumped up anyway,and they couldn't believe that I
knew them.
They were like you know, thesepeople, Like the people that you
know, the publishers.
They couldn't believe that Iknew them already.
It's a small circle.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, everybody knew everybody, especially back then.
It's like that many peopledoing those jobs, it's like you
know, come on, it's kind of hardto it was different.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
It's not like how it is today.
Not at all.
You know what I'm saying?
Not at all.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
That was part one of our conversation with Daytuan
Thomas.
Stay tuned next week for parttwo.
You can catch Mixed andMastered on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend I'm
your host, jeffrey.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.