September 10, 2025 • 61 mins
In Part 2 of our conversation with Datwon Thomas, we trace his path from creating King Magazine to producing some of the biggest shows on television. He shares how his vision for a lifestyle publication—once rejected—became a cultural force that gave us iconic covers with stars like Tyra Banks, expanded into Rides Magazine, and helped launch XXL’s legendary Freshman List.
Datwon opens up about his leap from print to digital at Global Grind, to live television with Dick Clark Productions, where he produced the American Music Awards and New Year’s Rockin’ Eve. He also reflects on surviving open-heart surgery in 2022, reminding us that no career milestone matters without your health. From Brooklyn’s hip-hop roots to Hollywood’s biggest stages, Datwon’s story is one of resilience, reinvention, and cultural impact.
Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now for part two of Dayton Thomas on Mixed and
Mastered.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,a podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
(00:21):
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
So wait, I know you worked atHooked, but I'm going to skip
that for a second.
Yeah, I want to go to King.
(00:41):
Okay, no problem.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
King Magazine let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.
Yes, indeed, that's.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Shooky.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Trees.
It's a legendary.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh man, I mean, it's your story.
You tell it, I was a fan.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So basically me and Black, that's what I had one of
my duties was to curate the okayup front section, which is like
the front part of the magazine,and the front the front part of
the magazine usually consistedof like the masthead where
everybody names get in.
You know, some of those firstideas you see on the creative
side.
But it also had the letterssection, when people would write
(01:25):
letters about the previousissue we have no email and all
that for them to be sendingstuff or social media.
They would hand write lettersfrom jail, from everywhere all
over the world, and I did thisout of like just pure fandom
because I was a fan.
They would have hundreds ofmail envelopes and boxes, dozens
(01:51):
of boxes of mail.
I would go through each one,read each one and hand write
them back and I didn't give them.
Like this was, this is afterwork, like we could get off at
six.
I would be staying until abouteight writing people, eight or
nine writing people.
Yeah, I would do that as likeextracurricular shit.
(02:11):
I would go in the box, I wouldget a box and start opening up
the letters and I would readthese people's life stories and
their problems and their ideas.
And the ideas was what wasreally lucrative for me, because
when I would get these jointsthey would be like yo who was on
page 37?
What rims were those on page 55?
(02:34):
What pants are those on page 98?
They weren't necessarily askingabout the music, they were
asking about the girls we wouldfeature or the lifestyle section
.
Asking about the music.
They was asking about the girlswe would feature, or, yeah,
cars, the lifestyle section.
And even though we had a robustlifestyle section, it seemed
like it wasn't enough.
So you know, over the course oflike a year I had all these
(02:59):
ideas from the people and I waslike Maxim and stuff the men's
magazines was really coming invogue at that time.
They were killing Huge.
They were selling 50% and 60%sell-through rates.
It was crazy.
It was making mad money.
(03:19):
I went to the publishers andtold them that we should do this
magazine based on girls.
Then they was like nah.
So what we ended up doing waswe put it as a section in XXL
called I Can't.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I remember that I remember that Me and Don Morris.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Don Morris was the creator director and you know
the music videos always had alead chick Video Vixen.
So we started incorporatingthat.
But I was also on the wholething of like it shouldn't just
be video girls.
So we started instituting likewomen that were on TV and stuff
like that.
That's where the King stuffstarted coming.
(03:56):
So then when I was able to, youknow, kind of get the idea down
by working it through the eyecandy section in the fashion
stuff and then we added like acar thing, I was like this could
be its own magazine this hasnothing to do with the
hip-hop people that we'reputting on at all.
This is all lifestyle and theydidn't see it at first.
(04:18):
So we ended up leaving doublexl going to hookcom.
And that's when elliot came in,okay, and he took over double
xl, but we went over to hookcomwith the internet thing and then
that internet bubble burst likea year and a half later, and as
it was bursting, everybody thatwas working at hook went to
(04:40):
different spots.
And our boy, jermaine hall, heended up going to the source.
My man, shaheen reed, he waswith us.
He ended up going to mtv mirth.
My man, keith murphy, he endedup going to like daily news or
people or whatever.
Everybody was getting these flyjobs, jeff, and I wasn't.
I wasn't like, I was still atcorporate cars and everything.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
they get real invites to spots.
I'm like I'm still, I'm stillgetting like the hood spot
joints.
I was like hold on, hold on,hold on, hold on.
But I love the fact that mypeople was winning because it
was more opportunity and it waslike it was opening up the doors
and, um, I remember, I remember, man, they started firing
(05:26):
everybody.
So at one point Hook had likemaybe like 60 something, 70
something people.
They got down to like 12 and Iwas one of the 12.
Yeah, I was one of the 12.
It was empty in that warehousedowntown and it was sad too it
was like going to work was likesad, everybody was gone.
It was like no, going to workwas like sad, everybody was gone
(05:46):
it was like no more fun withyour crew.
It was like work, work and thenumbers are dropping.
It was horrible.
So I remember one day I got acall at my desk and it was like
you know, a page from Harris andhe was the publisher for XXL
(06:06):
and for Slam and he had me whenI was over there and he was like
yo, I got an idea.
I think we should bring thatidea you was talking about out.
You know what I mean.
I think we should do that.
I was like what.
He was like yo, let's meet,let's just meet.
I met him for lunch and hestarted talking this King stuff
and at the time we didn't have aname for it.
(06:27):
We're just talking about theidea of what it could be like.
You know, fly motorcycles andcars and girls and fly gear,
just like taking GQ and justmaking it like for us, us you
know what I mean, but the focusbeing on the women and man, oh
man, they gave me the keys.
(06:47):
I drove, I drove.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Who was the first cover of King Layla.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Arcieri from Son of the Beach.
She was the main girl inQ-Tip's Vibrant thing with the
light on.
She was the first one, yeah,first one.
But we had a preview issue thatwas just like for advertisers.
It didn't go on the newsstands,we had a preview issue like a
couple of months before.
So this is 2001.
(07:15):
And around like June of 2001,we dropped a preview issue
explaining what king would be onthat cover.
We had nicole robinson, who waslike a supermodel dark skin,
beauty, long legs, incredibleand she the coolest.
But I think now she got married, it's like galanari or
something like that, and thenshe ended up being in like
(07:38):
different movies and things, butshe was the first one on the
preview.
But then the actual first issuewas Lila Arcieri, which was
supposed to be Gabrielle Unionbecause she was coming out in
the Bad Boys movie, butscheduling made it all messed up
and I had to get a cover outand I couldn't wait any longer.
So I made Lila the cover becauseshe was on Howard Stern's show
(08:02):
called Son of the Beach.
It was like a scoop on Baywatch.
And she was on Howard Stern'sshow called Son of the Beach.
It was like a school pornBaywatch and she was the star of
that.
So I put her on the cover andthen Gabrielle was ready for the
second cover.
I just remember.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
King exploding and it just became a thing like who's
going to be on the next cover?
It was like people wereguessing I don't know.
I remember I would walk down tothe office and y'all would tell
me.
Sometimes I would tell anybodyelse, but I would keep it secret
All the time?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
No doubt, yeah, yeah, yeah, I tell jokes.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Where did you get the white girl from?
From Moesha.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like it just Yup, it justyup.
Yeah, how did?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
it.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
It exploded like that Like what, what, what did that
still sound kind of weird.
But I guess, what did that feellike being in that, that, that
hurricane of just you know itbecame a thing.
It became like a thing that,almost like women who did, if
you didn't do it you wasn'treally popping.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Word.
That was the thing where it wascool for it, cause even the
women that was hesitant would belike, well, damn Tyra did it.
Well, damn Khalees did it, butdamn Kim did it.
And it was like, yeah, they didjump on Like we make it hot.
And and the only reason why Ithink a lot of those women did
it was because we approachedthem naturally.
(09:19):
We didn't approach them on somesuper lusty, we approached them
on like you are a major talentin what you do.
Whatever it is you do, you arethat major talent and we want to
recognize that and let thepeople know about that.
And um, we were very and when Isay we, I'm talking about
myself, my man, adele Henderson,jermaine Hall, bonsu, sean
(09:42):
Malcolm, keith Murphy.
I have all my friends help mebuild it.
That was another thing beingable to come together with my
brothers and really take over tothe point where we got Spike
Lee and different people hittingus about.
All the sports dudes washitting.
They would find my number.
They would find I know all themsports dudes like that.
(10:05):
They would find my number andbe like find I know all them
sports dudes like that.
They would find my number andbe like yo, I need such and such
.
On page 38.
I'm like look man, all I got issome publicist info bro.
That's it, I'm not a pimp, bro.
I'm not a pimp, I'm not a pimp.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I hate to say crazy.
One Wild King magazine story.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I know there's a million of them but just tell me
one, it could be anything, yeahthat's like we don't want a
criminal in the body.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Those women are wives now.
We don't want to.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, oh yeah yeah, a lot of those, a lot of those
different.
Well, I'll say this overall itwas the most incredible time of
my life because I was always onthe go and it's almost like
being the hottest rapper at themoment.
Everybody wants you to featurethem or be featured with them,
(10:57):
or they asking you to jump on atrack, and that's how it was for
me for a while.
Man, it was like the mostincredible experiences being
able to fly private to Paris andstay at Chateaus and be gifted
all types of incredible giftsthat I still have Some of them
in storage, though.
(11:18):
A crazy story.
I guess it's not crazy crazy,but it just showed you like how
determined I was.
So the same gentleman, dennisPage, when we were putting the
magazine together, we had tocome up with the logo and as a
(11:44):
asq cover of tyra banks, as likethe placeholder to show how all
the king logos would look, andI remember he put them on his
floor and this we're looking at,like 12 different pages of the
same tyra shot, but with theking logo.
And he hits my arm like yodon't worry about the picture
(12:05):
because you'll never get Tyra,just concentrate on it.
Concentrate on the logo.
Yo, you told me I would neverget Tyra.
He was like I don't want you tobe that ambitious, I wouldn't
put that kind of pressure on you, like I couldn't get her.
Now, mind you, tyra is.
This is the height of America'sNext Top Model.
(12:25):
It's on fire.
It's on fire, it's a ratingskiller and she's probably one of
the hardest people to get.
So this is 2001.
When he says that, I rememberin my mind I was like I'm going
to make him eat them words.
I remember sitting in hisoffice like I'm going to make
him eat them words.
I'm going to get tyra, I'mgonna get tyra, I'm gonna get
tyra, and it was like I wasobsessive about it.
(12:47):
So what I would do her birthdayis the same day as jay-z's,
december 4th.
Every december 4th and everyvalentine's day for three years,
I would send her flowers.
Excuse me, I found out whereher office was.
I want to say it was in burbank, I can't remember, but it was
definitely in Cali and I don'tknow if she got them.
But I would send them andnobody was sending something
(13:09):
back saying she ain't get them.
They ain't said nothing sayingshe got them, but I would send
them every year like clockwork.
So I ended up running into likesomeone that she was cool with
and they were like yo, to gether man, you gonna have to talk
to Benny Medina or somebody.
I ended up having lunch withBenny Medina.
I think he was managing her atthe time.
(13:31):
Everybody knows Benny Medinafrom Fresh Prince Days and
everything the ultimate big dogI felt like.
I was hot, I'm popping, I'mpopping, I got it.
We met yeah, I'm popping, I'mpopping, I got it.
I got a little bit of marketshare out here we could walk
down the block and you can seemy workout on the street back
(13:51):
then you know what I mean.
And we went to lunch and we hada really dope conversation.
He was like all right, you knowwhat I'm gonna do, I'm put a
word in for you.
I was like I bet he put theword, I got the word back.
People hit or she really wanted.
And at the time she had like acouple of months prior, she did
stuff magazine with some of thegirls from America's Next Top
(14:15):
Model and I remember her tellingme when she, when we got her to
the shoot because I locked itin and all she really wanted was
, um, first class tickets fromla she was like I got everything
else.
I'm gonna bring my mom.
Yep, she brought a mom.
Mom was mad cool and her momwas a photographer, so she had
the odd too.
(14:36):
But this was the craziest partabout getting tyra to the shoot.
We get her there and we don'tknow how many looks we're gonna
do, but she's like on some, likeshe's on model time.
Model time is like this.
Super model time is like thisvixen.
Model time is whenever.
Whenever we get the shot, weget the shot.
She was like this, she was likeall y'all.
So this must be around like 11.
(14:56):
She's like all right y'all.
Boom, boom, boom.
Did the first one boom change,got into the second one.
Boom, boom, boom, boom.
It's like 11, 30, like damn, wegot two looks already.
Now I got the whole spot untillike five or six.
I'm thinking it's going to be along ass day.
It's like eleven thirty.
We already breezed through totwo looks.
Third look she's walking offthe set of the second one, took
(15:21):
off the bikini thing of thesecond one, took off the bikini
thing.
She's naked, grabs the velvetcurtain, wraps it around her
breasts and her private andwrapped it around her and was
like take the shot, just grabbedthe velvet.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
It was like a velvet.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Like this thing right here, but velvet, she just
wrapped it around her.
That was like the third shot.
It's not even noon yet.
Third shot, boom.
Not even noon yet.
Third shot, boom.
We done for that.
We eat.
We're done eating by like 1220.
She does like two more looks byone o'clock.
We over with.
(15:58):
We started at 11.
We done with five looks.
We're done in two hours.
I couldn't believe it.
I'm like I'm thinking, man, wedon't have Tyra all day.
She don't got time, she shemaking money, she got shit to do
this is part of her day thisain't her day.
This is one piece.
(16:18):
And what you know what thattaught me, man?
That taught me getting out,let's go, and she wasn't even
like hurry up, it was justprofessional.
And it made me look at everyshoot after in a different way.
We became so much moreefficient, bro.
It's me witnessing how sheoperated with her team.
(16:45):
You know the trust she operatedwith her team, you know the
trust she had in her mom thetrust she had in us, cause she
said this was the illest thingthat she said to me.
She was like yo, you know why Idid it.
She was like y'all cater toyoung black men and everything.
If I could do the white boysover there stuff, I could do my
brother's hair king.
That's dope.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Much love.
Tyra could get anything from me, bro Anything but the thing
that I got from her was how tobecome more efficient as a
professional.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Tell me a little.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, more thorough.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Tell me a little bit about Rides magazine, then let's
go to Grind.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, no doubt.
So Rides was crazy, becausethat was still an idea from XXL
days.
The lifestyle part, because wewould put Scarface with a car or
whoever was hot at the momentwith a car in XXL.
So when I knew going into Kingwhich this is like a little
asterisk, this is the asteriskif we didn't do king, we were
(17:50):
going to do rides first, becausethe advertising market was
there that's where the trims waspopping every car company and
all that urban kids, every video.
Yes, customizing everything, all, even down to the paint.
Everything was was, like youknow, car industry driven days
before the ubers and all thatstuff.
(18:11):
So we were going to do that atfirst if I'm being all the way
chronological but then we waslike, you know, if we pull back,
we could come, we could jumpback to that idea and we put
rides inside King as a sectionand we did like Busta Rhymes
first, a couple of footballplayers back, then those are the
only dudes.
(18:31):
That was like really gettingcar money like that, the rapper
dudes wasn't really getting allthat big dog car money outside
of like a big artist.
Yeah, somebody had to be hugeto have a big artist.
You had to, you had to reallybe doing it.
So, anyway, king startedNovember of 2021.
(18:52):
We started Rod's like May of2003,.
And we put Tyrese on the coverbecause he was starring in the
second installment of Fast andthe Furious and that made sense
to us, but it didn't make senseto the publishers.
They didn't.
They was like who the hell isthe?
Because they always went oncelebrity power and he wasn't as
(19:13):
big yet.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Franchise yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I was like the franchise is huge.
I was like don't worry abouthim.
I was like worry about usputting Fast and the Furious on
there.
It's going to suck man.
That shit took off.
I said I got another hit.
You know what it felt like?
It felt like I was an artistwith King, yeah.
(19:36):
And then I got my artist name,you got my John Legend.
You got what you said.
I got my Eminem.
Yeah, exactly that's how I felt, man.
I was like yo, I got yeah,because I know I'm gonna keep
popping with king.
And then I got, I got rise.
Now it was crazy and we reallytook the car industry by storm.
The only real competition wehad back then excuse me, the
(20:01):
only real competition we hadback then was um, dub, my man
miles, and I'm over at dub outof cali because it's a car
culture his cars.
It's a car culture.
It's a whole different thingthan what we were doing.
We were like celebrity-drivencar stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
We got the low-riders out there and all that stuff.
They are real car fans.
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
They grew up in those kind of cars.
We grew up on a two andthree-train.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Getting a ride was a big deal, I got a car, word Word
.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You had your favorite cab driver you know, the gypsy
cab, the gypsy cab that's whatit was back then, you know, or
the gypsy cab joys you had yourfavorite one.
So it was a little differentfor us when we, when we came on
the scene, but we killed it.
Man, like every major carcompany wanted to mess with us,
(20:58):
we got everybody.
I'm talking pharrell, 50, snoopshack, ice cube, cadillac, you
know.
I'm saying everybody wanted toshow their joints off, man, and
we were getting pitched thatthat brand alone, man, oh my
goodness, it was starting tocatch up the king.
It was crazy.
(21:19):
It was crazy like so I couldn'tlose in that building, man.
And um, I remember, elliot,there was a rolling stone
article, or or I think it wasrolling stone, where def jam had
this thing, where Irv was likewho's the hottest nigga in the
building?
Because you had Def.
(21:40):
Jam overall, and then you hadall the labels and he was like
we the hottest, meaning MurderInc.
But then you have Rough Ridersyou have Rockefeller, and then
you have regular yeah,disturbing the Peace.
And then you have regular DefJam and it was like all the
(22:03):
people who ran those wanted tobe the hottest nigga in the
building and elliot looked atharris as def jam excel
rockefeller you know yeah kingcould have been like rough
riders.
Rods was like murder inc and Igot two of them.
It was great.
He was like yo, I'm still thehottest nigga in the building.
Yo, we used to laugh.
So we used to laugh on that somuch that one day we was like yo
, we're gonna have to collab onsomething.
And um, we ended up making amagazine that made money
(22:27):
together.
It was called hip-hop, hip-hopsoul.
We did hip-hop soul magazine,which combined hip hop and R&B.
And who we put on the firstcover?
R Kelly, I think it was.
R Kelly was on the first.
Then we put Ne-Yo and KeishaCole, then we put Usher, then we
(22:51):
put I can't even remember.
We just kept coming out withthese issues, man, and it was so
dope because that was our firsttime working together, so it
was like you got pharrell andkanye to do an album together.
You know, I'm saying like, andwe became tighter by doing that
project together.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, it was short lived, like maybe three years.
So after did it, after this run, it was crazy you became the
XXL editor.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
It was crazy.
So, jermaine, we bumpedJermaine up to editor-in-chief.
I moved for King, I moved up toeditorial director where I
oversaw all the magazine titles,and then I was also helping out
with some of the othermagazines that was at Harris,
like Fuego and stuff like that.
(23:37):
And then Elliot left XXL and itwas tumultuous and all types of
crazy.
It was all in the media andeverything.
And then I, um, I was, I was, uh, I was in my office like yo,
that's crazy.
I was like yo, yo, jeff, thisis wild.
I was like yo, that's.
I was like yo, that's crazy.
Elliot is out cause I ain'teven get a chance to talk to him
(23:59):
before he left.
And I was like damn man.
I was like yo, I don't know whogonna be crazy enough to step
in his shoes.
I was like that's fire, likewhoever gotta go do do the shit
after him.
They crazy, they must be nutsand I'm talking shit.
And then, next thing, you know,I got a car, exactly, and I was
(24:21):
like at first I was like, nah,I'm good, I'm good.
They was like look you in thebuilding already.
You started at that brand.
You know the brand.
Y'all cool, you still on it.
We're going to give you thisamount.
I was like if y'all up that,I'll do it.
But they more than upped it,man, they roofed it.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I'll be there Monday.
How long were you the editor ofDouble XL?
Like a?
Year, a year and a few monthsand we'll be right back welcome
to Merrick Studios, wherestories take the mic and culture
(25:06):
comes alive.
We're not just a network, we'refamily.
And we'll be right back wherethe conversation starts and
keeps going.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Check out our full lineup, including Unglossy with
Bun B, jeffrey Sledge and myself, tom Frank Now streaming at
wearemerickstudioscom.
Master the art of lyricism withPendulum Inc, the first school
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This is where MCs sharpen theirskills and glow boldly on the
(25:37):
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Ready to level up?
Visit penduluminccom and startyour journey today.
And now back to the show butwhile I was there, I created the
freshman.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, yeah, I created the freshman.
So what happened with that waselliot, like months prior to him
leaving, had put together thiscover of the new school of hip
hop and he had like 10 dudes onthe cover in all white and
called it the new school and itwas like Saigon, papoose, boozy,
(26:11):
crooked Eye cats like that.
I think Joe Button, it was likecats like that.
I think joe button it was likecats like that and I saw that.
But at king we had somethingcalled the coming kings that we
would do every year where wewould select the top people we
thought was going to take overin different genres, all the way
down to aerospace.
We would get astronaut dudesand we said we, we called Hart
(26:35):
early, we call so many peopleearly.
We would have themes like that.
We had an all white theme andthat year we had Kanye, common,
paul Wall, mike Jones, terrenceHoward, trey Songz.
It was crazy.
It was crazy.
So I was already used to doingthat type of stuff like
(26:56):
forecasting, but when I got toXXL I felt like yo, this idea
with the new school we could.
We could improve on it bymarketing it better, giving it a
sexier title than new school,and we should bring in the dudes
.
That's killing it on theInternet, because at this point
(27:16):
all the mixtape it wasSoundCloud, blog era, soundcloud
was on fire, blog era.
So I started picking those kindof guys that I thought would go
to that next level, like KidCudi, Ace Hood, mickey Facts,
blue Peter Gunn's son, coreyGuns, mickey Fax, blue Peter
(27:38):
Gunson, corey Guns.
And then on the cover was likeBOB, charles Hamilton, asher
Roth and Wale, so called it thefreshman.
And, mind you, the publishersand some of the staff did not
want me to do this because theyfelt like I didn't work for
Elliot, it's not going to workfor us.
I was like I'm not Elliot,trust me.
Oh, it didn't work for Elliot,it's not going to work for us.
I was like I'm not Elliot.
Trust me, I know how to get mythings over the line that I'm
(28:02):
doing, not that he didn't,because he lifted it up.
He lifted the brand up fromwhere we left it Because when I
left that's when he came in Ijust felt like I knew what I was
doing because I got my kingcredentials, trust me.
I knew what I was doing becauseI got my king credentials,
trust me.
I know what I'm doing.
And next thing, you know, Icame up with the whole cypher
(28:22):
thing of unveiling them but notunveiling them.
I had everybody hide their facein a creative way and they had
to do like a 16 at the shoot andthen we would put the clips out
on YouTube to promote it andyou had to guess which rapper it
was.
Pardon me, that createdanticipation and I'm a marketing
(28:45):
dude at the same time.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
If I'm going to put something together I'm going to
have to plan on how we're goingto get people to see it.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
That did it.
Then, I believe, we had like anunofficial dj who did mixtape.
That went along with, I thinkhe did it.
So it was crazy, yeah so.
So my time at double excel mecoming back was was like proving
that my hip-hop chops was stillthere and I was still on point.
And like I'm no joke in this,like I really do this, like
(29:21):
don't think that just becauseI'm shooting girls over here and
cars and shit I'm a real editor.
I know that's how I got in.
Yeah, I'm a real one with this.
And I not only did I feel likeI proved that to others, I
proved it to myself, because Iwanted to be able to say to me
yeah, boy, you did that.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You did that Global Grind.
Now, who ran Global Grind?
That was Russell's thing.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Russell Simmons.
That was Russell's joint, andwhat was crazy about it was
while I was at XXL even while Iwas at King he came at me one
time and was like yo, we need totalk about doing some stuff and
I was like alright, bet, let'sdo it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And I think it was because I had all the sexy girls
on there.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I was like Russell.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Russell just wanted to be the girls man.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
He just wanted access to the King joints.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
He don't want to talk to me, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
You know the hip-hop guy don't want to talk to me
about it.
But so then when I bounced overto XXL and I started making
strides, I think they saw likeall right, we need to really
lock in on hip hop.
And this guy got got a hold onit right now and it came at me
(30:32):
like twice, I ain't like thenumbers.
And I was like what kind ofstaff is it?
I think at the time Kim Azario,from the source, was running it
and they were doing like thingsthat were a little bit more in
the female lane.
So I didn't see it as like,okay, I could jump in and take
those things over and do them.
Well, because that was forwomen.
I was like, if I do it, I'mgonna have to like reconfigure
(30:52):
this.
And I remember talking to her asshe was leaving.
She was like yo, I've beenhearing your name around here a
lot.
I was like, oh, they seriouslike that.
She was like, yeah, I think youshould sit down with them for
real, for real.
So off her.
I was like I bet I sat downwith them, told them the numbers
, and the numbers was supergreat.
And I was like the only thingwas that meant I had to leave
(31:13):
double xl and I just got yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
And I just got that freshman shit.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
We on fire, we talking about taking it.
I got to go into the next level.
I got to, but around that timeI just had my third daughter.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
I got diapers to buy.
You know what I'm saying.
I got formula to buy.
I can't move around.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
I needed that paper man, I was like, yes, and I, I'm
going to be real man.
My third daughter was thereason, I think, I made that
move so boldly.
She had just turned like a year, she was just over a year and
everything.
And I was thinking about thetimes of now where this past
(31:49):
Saturday, I dropped her off tostart at Howard.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Way back then.
Yeah, and I was thinking likethat.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know what I'm saying, this was 18 years ago,
way back then.
Yeah, and I was thinking likethat, you know what I'm saying,
this was 18 years ago back then.
So I think I did the rightthing, but I do feel like I wish
I had my hand in freshmanlonger.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
I can't front.
Vanessa did her.
Thing.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Vanessa did her thing .
She definitely took it andelevated it.
My man Rob.
I can't front Vanessa.
Vanessa did her thing.
Yeah, she definitely took itand elevated it.
My man Rob Markman everybodythat stayed behind.
They made sure the shit wasdope.
It still continues today,regardless of what people want
to think of the quality ofartists.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
They can't make the artists, they're just going to
promote them.
They can't build the artistsfrom scratch or whatever.
So wait, after this, you went.
You went back to vibe.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, then I went back.
Well, after go global grind, Iwent into Silicon Valley and I
started yeah, I started dealingwith Steve jobs wife or widow,
lorraine.
She was a partner in a companycalled Ozzy with Carlos Watson,
who was just pardoned by Trump,which sounds crazy.
(33:05):
It's crazy, Yo, that Silicon.
Valley world man.
Everybody think the streets iscrazy.
They think the streets is grimy.
They think having beef on thestreets is crazy.
Have some digital beef.
That's what I'm saying.
They think having beef on thestreets is saying have some
digital beef.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
That's what I'm saying.
They got some bread out there.
Look at that like 20, 30million on your head.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It's crazy, it's crazy.
So I was with them for a whileand then, while I was with them,
vi called how was that?
And I went back to Vi.
Yeah, that was crazy.
No, I'm getting it mixed up, mybad, my bad.
That was the second time I wentback.
The first time I went back toVibe was right after Global
(33:46):
Grind.
I was selling for a while.
I was freelancing for a littlebit for like maybe six, seven
months.
Then I went back to Vibebecause Jermaine and Lynn
Burnett and Brett Wright that'sright I forgot they were Vibe.
They had Vibe out of bankruptcy.
Totally forgot about that andyeah, that's why I skipped over
it too, my bad.
And then I went back with themand that was like 2009, going
(34:11):
into 10.
And I was there until 2013.
2013 is when I went over toOzzy and that's when I was doing
the Silicon Valley thing.
I was flying out to San Franevery three weeks.
I would fly out to San Jose orSan Francisco and I would be in
(34:32):
Mountain View and I was workingon their website, which was kind
of like a blend of HuffingtonPost and Washington Post.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
It's not that long ago, but all these things are
gone now.
Even Huffington Post is goneand obviously OZ is gone and
they're around, but it's not thesame and Vibe is gone and it's
a trip yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Social media, man, social media, same and vibe is
gone and it's a trip.
Yeah, yeah, social media,everything, social media, social
, and nobody I don't thinkanybody has done the jump.
Yeah, right, yeah, outside,yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right,
you know what I mean?
No one has done it to the, tothe.
It's like, it's almost like aseamless run even big places
like Rolling.
Stone, they just haven'tfigured it out.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
They can't figure it out nah, they didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
They can't figure it out, because it was because I
feel like a lot of those brandswere birthed during, you know,
the print era and they stayedtrue to that ethos, whereas
complex kind of came out justbefore the blog era.
You know what I'm saying.
So, yeah, they kind of likelived in that space a little bit
(35:49):
more so, where people could doonline shopping.
It went with their aesthetic asthey were coming out as being
buy, collect obsess.
That was their mantra.
Online, where were you buyingstuff?
You were buying it online.
They were heavily more onlineand they would tell you go to
this website, go to that website.
Whereas print was like go tothis store, go to that store,
(36:13):
you know like it's.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
It's a mentality and the convenience across the board
of you know like it's amentality and the convenience
across the board of down to nowordering food, the convenience
of being able to do somethingwithout leaving your crib, you
know, and getting food or withgrails or getting clothes, crazy
.
And I think that what's?
I'm sure there's studies onthis, I haven't seen them.
(36:36):
But I'm sure there are studieson this, I haven't seen them.
I'm sure they're archived.
I know I didn't figure this out, but it's.
It's.
It's like the um excitement ofgetting a gift, even if you
bought it.
It's the excitement of amazondropping those boxes every day,
or ebay every day, those boxes,those boxes at your doorstep.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It's like I got a gift.
What did I?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
get.
Oh, I didn't know what this is.
Let me open it up.
There's a dopamine thing tothat that I think people slept
on.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's definitely dopamine, and what's crazy is
like it's to the point, like youjust said, you could order
something and totally forgotthat you ordered it.
Until you see it on your stepand be like oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
For a minute?
How many you open up?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
a little bit.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, let me see how it fits or whatever you know, or
even a food thing like thatwith instacart.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Like you know, you don't even have to go to the
grocery store.
No more, bro.
You could just like you're justwatching the netflix's thing.
Ding dong and your wholegrocery is there for the week.
You know what I'm saying?
Ding-ding-dong and your wholegrocery is there for the week.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Uber Eats is my friend.
It's crazy man.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's crazy.
You go back to Vibe.
I feel like I have all my noteshere and then the OZ, then
Respect.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, then Ozzy and then man.
That was crazy too, becausewhile I was doing Ozzy, I was
doing Respect magazine with myman, jonathan Ringo, who was one
of the publishers at XXL.
He had started his own thing.
And once again, here I go.
Elliot was the editor in chiefand then he leaves and I get a
(38:12):
call and I'm like yo, what's up?
He was like yo L bounced.
You know what I'm saying'msaying I got, I got, I gotta get
this issue.
I was like listen man, I can'tbe following this dude man.
He gonna think I'm followinghim, right, but this is the wild
shit about it.
This is the wild shit about meand l's relationship.
I was at double xl before himand left and he came in and then
(38:34):
I took over Right.
I was at respect before he camein.
I did like the first issue whenTony Dravino was the editor in
chief.
He was like the editor in chiefmaybe for one or two issues and
I was and I was writing withthem and talking about getting
more of a, a position, but thenthat's when I was doing my thing
(38:55):
and they needed somebody everyday.
And then Elliot came in andthat's when I was doing my thing
and they needed somebody everyday.
Then Elliot came in and that'swhen I was like all right got it
.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
I wasn't pursuing it Then when he left, they came
back and they looked like I'mfollowing this dude everywhere.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I didn't want to.
I was like yo, I'm notfollowing this dude again, I'm
not doing it, I don't want to go.
Yeah, just call day.
And I was like yo, I'm notfollowing this dude again, I'm
not doing it, I don't wantpeople to feel like I'm
following this dude and I'mdoing that.
So then, uh, jr was like nah,you was here first, started out
like nobody give a fuck aboutthat, they're not gonna see that
.
And he was like nah, nah, nah,come on, man, I need the help.
I was like all right for you,I'm gonna do this.
(39:34):
And I had a amazing time doingrespect, man, like I think I did
some of my favorite work there.
I really yo, it was wow becauseI just got to focus on the
music.
I didn't have to focus onlifestyle or girls or cars or
anything, I just so I doubleddown on the music.
(39:54):
I added a battle rapper sectionand was given battle rappers,
full features, not littlecolumns, and oh, they doing a
battle.
I treated them like they wereplatinum stars.
So it was dope.
That's what people first reallylearned about daylight, when
they first really learned aboutSmack and Beasley, and in there
(40:15):
you know their plight because alot of the hip hop magazines was
using them as footnotes becauseit was such an offshoot of hip
hop culture andyeah, it's like a subculture and
I was like, nah, we gottaelevate it.
So I did that with respect.
That's one of the things Iloved about doing with that
magazine.
And then one of my favoritephotos ever is the cover I did
(40:39):
with young thug and baby fromcash money.
That cover is so crazy and Ithink I forgot what I call it
dirty money or something likethat.
I forgot it was so crazy.
Black and white shot from thisangle.
Looking up them.
Dudes was from this angle.
(41:00):
Looking up them.
Dudes was 15 hours late to theshoot and when they came they
were so late.
How late were they?
They were so late I had toswitch out photographers.
They were so late that one ofthe photographers, after waiting
for seven hours, had to leaveto go get their kid and couldn't
come back.
So there was a point while I'mwaiting for them to come to the
shoot.
(41:20):
I didn't have a photographer.
If they showed up Like theywould have came in because they
so late, they would have came inand not have a photographer.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
They were so late that I gave me three hours to
find one.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I found it and they were still.
It was after that they werestill like two hours late after
I found one.
And I found one.
I found the dopest one.
My man Dwayne he's ill man hedid all the dope Atlanta shoots
out there, all the guys thathave like epic and legendary
shots.
He did it and he did that oneman and he had to go on.
(41:55):
He had to leave straight fromthe shoot and catch an
international flight.
He did that before his flight.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Tell me about Dick Clark.
I love that guy man to this day.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Well, yeah, so boom after Respect bounced back to
Vibe and I know we're skipping abig portion of it, but y'all
heard my Vibe story.
I go back to Vibe because thestaff asked for me after and
this is funny jermaine waseditor-in-chief, jermaine hall,
who worked with me at king.
He left and the staff asked forme to come back, which was like
(42:28):
the blessing of all blessings,because then I it took me out of
the freelance world.
I didn't have to kill what Ieat all the time, you what I
mean.
I was able to chill for aminute because I was going hard
for like a year and a half and Iwent back to Vibe.
This is 2015, now, early 2015.
(42:48):
And I didn't leave until 2023.
I was there for a minute.
And what's so crazy is while Iwas at Vibe, around 2018, is
when I got introduced to theDick Clark family.
They were their owners and ourowners of Vibe, billboard and
Hollywood Reporter.
Ok, they ended up doingbusiness together as MRC Media
(43:13):
Rights Capital, media rightscapital and they put out like a
bunch of movies and stuff.
And they have other brands,like a 24 and deals with like
full well 73, which is JamesCorden.
So when they had Dick Clark.
We all had to do a businessleader retreat and I was the
leader of vibe.
So when I got there, they satme next to one of the executives
(43:33):
at Dick Clark and I was writingideas about what they should be
doing, based off some of thethings that the company was
telling us they wanted to do.
And I was like yo, dick Clarkto do excellent.
And I got notes and he'slooking.
He's like yo, you should cometo one of our meetings.
I was like, oh yeah, you damnright, cause I'm thinking like
yo, I want to get into TV andfilm.
And that was like my end and myideas were dope and they were
(43:58):
thinking, like, alright, cool,well, one way you can help us is
try to book some of thesepeople for us that you, these
ideas that you want to do, seeif you could make those happen.
And I started making it happen.
And next thing, you know, I gota job consulting Dick Clark
while I'm editor-in-chief of VODand that started to cultivate
(44:18):
seriously.
I got a job consulting DickClark while I'm editor in chief
of VOD and that started tocultivate seriously in 2019.
Then the pandemic hit.
But this is the craziest thingabout the pandemic.
It opened up my opportunitybecause now a lot of the people
couldn't move around and somewere scared to go to things and
stuff like that and it was like,can you go to the shoot?
You know COVID compliance andall that man, I did the COVID
(44:41):
compliance so I could be on theset.
And I was on the set and I diduh, I did like a, a remote
taping for big for killer Mike,for idea that me and another
employee came together with myhomegirl Sarah.
We came up with this consciouskind of like conscious community
(45:03):
driven award for the BillboardAwards.
We had it's called GameChangers and we had a killer
might receive the first one andthen we ended up having, like
trade the truth do the secondone and all that.
But during that time I'mbecoming a producer for real and
I ended up getting hired fulltime.
When the new owner came over,who was also the owner of Vibe,
(45:26):
he asked me to move from Vibe toDick Clark.
Wow, I started doing all theshows.
I even did the country show YepOut in Nashville, and at that
point Stephen Hill from BET, hecomes in and he becomes like an
exec.
So I'm working on his team andI'm learning from him.
And then, who does he bring in?
He brings in Jesse Collins.
(45:47):
So I'm working with, I'mworking directly with, Jesse.
Collins, dion Harmon, who'samazing.
And Stephen Hill.
How did this happen?
Yeah, like what, stephen Hill.
How did this happen?
Like what?
How did this happen?
Yo and I'm working on AmericanMusic Awards with them.
I'm ushering in.
I'm making sure New Edition isright, cardi is straight.
(46:10):
I'm making sure Tyler's good.
I'm making sure Nelly gets somelove.
I'm booking Jha and Ashanti forNew Year's Rockin' Eve I'm
booking, yeah, like every, notthis year, but the past three to
four years I did the 1145 slot.
(46:30):
That was my slot going into NewYear's and that was the top
rated part of the show.
So I could walk away knowingthat I booked and made happen
like that pivotal point wherepeople are shedding their last
year going into their new year,and me and my grandmother used
to watch that show together andI'm like damn.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
I'm working on this show.
Yeah, full circle.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Full circle no it was crazy man Full circle.
She would have lost her mindknowing I worked on that show.
You know what I'm saying.
And um, it's been amazing, butall good things.
Just the last couple of weeks Itransitioned out of Dick Clark.
I'm still consulting for them.
(47:15):
It's a good transition becausenow I'm working for myself.
I have my own productioncompany, daylight Media.
I've got a couple of clientsworking on some award shows
right now.
You're still popping.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
You're still popping.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
You can't stop.
You can't stop, I'm still goingman, I'm still going.
I'm still going.
I can't, man, I can't.
But I will tell you it tried tostop me because last October I
had the heart attack thing andthat just sat me down in the
weirdest way and technicallyit's not a heart attack, but
(47:53):
that's the best way tocategorize it.
It was like my aortic valvethat fuels all the blood through
your body to all yourextremities and organs.
It ruptured at the top of myheart and I had already had high
blood pressure.
So that tookured at the top ofmy heart and I had already had
high blood pressure.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
So yeah, that took me over the top.
I wasn't taking my medicineyeah I was traveling and I was
like I'm gonna get it.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
I'm gonna get it.
It's only been a day.
I'm good.
I'm good not knowing because,like I remember, when it
happened and after I was able totalk to everybody, a friend of
mine was like yeah, you lookbloated Like on your stories,
like I was like they got fat andI was retaining so much fluid
properly because I wasn't takingmy medicine.
(48:36):
And I look back at those photos.
I was like damn right and theysaw that in the stories that I
was posting.
But my heart attack story islike you know, I don't even know
how I was posting, but my heartattack story is like a fucking
movie.
I don't even know how I'm here.
God's grace and love.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I haven't said this on the show before, but the
initial kernel of me doing thispodcast started from I actually
had a stroke in 22.
Yeah, same thing Not taking mymedication, same shit, what.
Yeah, so I had a stroke andthen, you know, I was in the
whole vein.
I passed away.
And this one passed away and Iheard Clark was sick and I was
(49:14):
like you know what?
And the kernel of me doing thispodcast was, like you know, I
want to get with people as muchas I can to talk about health.
This really was supposed to beabout health.
I was like let's talk abouthealth because so many of us in
the entertainment business wedon't take care of ourselves.
I'm taking my medication, we'rerunning, we're not sleeping,
we're traveling all over theplace Drinking.
(49:35):
Didn't run into the airport.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Staying up late.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
You talk about your health issue, which I'm
obviously very glad you wereable to overcome.
It brought me back to that.
I said this is more abouthealth than about people's
careers.
But then it morphed because Iwas like you know what, let me
give people their flowers.
That's what's up.
Let me give people theirflowers.
I don't know.
I wanted to get on the show andtalk about their careers
(50:03):
because I was like first of all,I know some amazing people that
have done amazing things behindthe scenes.
People might not know the stuffthat people do so and and how
they they've really pushed theculture forward.
You don't really know theartists, but seeing, but you
know hearing these stories.
I think it's very helpful.
I'm glad you're thinking.
I think it's very helpful.
(50:24):
I'm glad you're taking care ofyourself.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Appreciate you, bro man.
Yeah, it's been a rough road.
Like all of November of lastyear was my recovery.
I was in the hospital for like10 days.
They gave me like a six-houropen heart surgery thing, had my
heart out my chest, had all myblood out my body Crazy.
And then all of November I wasjust working so I could get back
(50:48):
on set because I knew I had newyear's rock and eve and I had
already booked like dj cassidyand ja rule and fat joe and
slick rick and and and dougiefresh and I was like nah, I
can't miss that, you gotta chill.
So I was working to get back tothere but the doctors was like
you got to get back, I bet.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Cause, like yo, we barely let me go.
The last one Barely let me goEver.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Exactly Wow, this is what got you here.
This is what got you here so.
But now I'll tell you this, man, life has been even before.
Life was always so beautiful tome Always.
It's even more so now wasalways so beautiful to me Always
.
It's even more so now Becausenow that I've dropped my
daughter off to college my otherdaughter, my middle one,
(51:33):
graduated college this year myoldest has got her first her own
kindergarten class.
Now she's a full-fledgedteacher in Atlanta.
I wouldn't have been able tosee those things you know what I
mean and to make 50 like in May.
It's been beautiful, bro.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
A couple of quick questions, fun questions.
Yes sir, yes sir, tell me whoyou wanted to get on a cover of
King magazine but weren't ableto get.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Oh, man, the ones that got away.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Let me go down.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Let me go down the list.
Beyonce and I pitched for her,with her publicist and her team.
I pitched for her like fivetimes.
Why did they say no?
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Probably Jay.
Yeah, keeping it real.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
Yeah, that's exactly that's what I want to say.
What that's what I want to say,that's what I want.
But I think, I think at thetime they were really trying to
get her over the mainstream hump.
Okay, and we might have been alittle too, as much as we
weren't hood.
I think we might have been alittle too hood, but we weren't
hood, you know, in their eyes,that would have been a nice one
damn.
(52:45):
Yeah, Beyonce, was it.
Man.
I tried five different timesover the course of six, seven
years.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
You even hit a hole with the Brooklyn shit and all
that.
None of that.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
One time I've seen them at 40-40.
I was going to be like yo man,I'll even let you shoot it.
Word, let me get it.
I got too scared.
I got too scared.
I ain't saying nothing, no, butwe did get Kelly.
We got Kelly a bunch of times.
I remember that I gave LatoyaLucky the cover when she was
doing her solo thing, and thenSerena Williams was another one,
(53:20):
and what made Serena hurt sobad that we didn't get her is
that I seen her in paris and shewas with brett ratner okay and
I was looking at brett, like you, lucky dog man you know, you
know you, that was so far out ofhis league bro you out your
league right now.
And they was, they was togetheror whatever, and I wanted to run
(53:41):
up on her.
But I was with my wife.
My wife was like she chilling,we'll get her another time.
And I was like all right,because my wife used to real
shit.
She she would be like why don'tyou get such and such?
You know what I'm saying?
like she would let me knowpeople yeah, all the time, and
they would always be a hit.
And she, she saw, she knew howbad I wanted serena, but she was
like, nah, this ain't the time,just leave her alone.
(54:03):
And and then the last one, it'sthe top three Beyonce, serena
and Halle Berry.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
You never got Halle.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Never got Halle.
Nope, never got Halle man andshe did stuff for FHM for one of
the movies.
I was so mad I was like yellingin the office, I used to get
emotional over King.
Because I used to get emotionalover king, you know, I used to
get emotional like I was heatedthat she did them and we didn't
(54:33):
get a shot.
I was like oh no, no, no, butshe still looked good, she still
looked good yeah, those are thethree, though Tell me your
favorite King cover.
Yikes, damn, they all got liketheir own special thing, but the
first one that comes to mind isFree.
(54:54):
Free was 106 and Park, becauseI had pursued her for so many
years and she kept telling me no, kept telling me no, and then
she finally said yes, I feltlike I won the damn championship
.
Man, I tell you, I wanted toget the goggles and the
champagne and just like yeah, Iremember that cover yeah, and
(55:20):
she ended up becoming the numberone seller yeah, I remember
that cover, that cover wasvolume wise, volume wise.
I bet the woman that we shot themost ironically which is so
crazy, and I didn't realize ituntil like after everything was
trina.
Trina got them like five covers.
Wow, yeah, I would never thinkI would be like oh shit, trina.
But I'll tell you this abouttrina real quick, and this is no
(55:43):
disrespect, trina, I love you.
If you see this, understand,this is in all love.
This is just how I remember it.
We had to for her first coverwith us.
We had to go to Miami and wehad to start at like three in
the morning because we did bodypaint.
We had a body paint artist comeand body paint her and it took
them like three hours, so thatputs you around like 6 37 in the
(56:05):
morning.
Then we had we didn't do it onSouth Beach.
We ain't want a bunch of peopleto crowd, so we took it to
another I think I forgot BayBeach or Cocoa Beach or whatever
beach is over there and it'sgoing to hit me and we took over
there.
So it's early in the morning,we are chilling, it's nice, the
water is cold as heck and I'mlike yo, she a trooper, she out
(56:27):
here, body painted, and then itwas like these figures was
walking down the beach and I'mlike, damn, they thick, they
thick as crazy.
What?
I was like yo, who's all thesepeople coming?
And it was like three women andthey was like hey.
She was like hey, mom.
I said who is?
Speaker 1 (56:43):
your mom.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
And her mom passed.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Yeah, her mom passed away.
God bless, god bless.
Speaker 2 (56:49):
God bless, mom was crazy Smoking.
I was like yo, we going toshoot mom.
Mom was like boy, you betterget out of here.
Get out of here, and we gotcool like that.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
And I was just hugging her up.
I was like yo, you're gonna getany shots, like, come on, now,
you're gonna have to come on,give me the whole family.
Smashing whole whole family wasgangster.
I was like, damn trina, youhiding all them, left them in
the video.
But nah, trina's my girl, sheknows all love.
Um, god, god bless her mom.
And uh, I'm trying to think ofanother one.
(57:25):
Oh, remember Ashley from freshPrince?
Yeah, yeah, I think it'sTatiana.
She was super, duper cool.
Her and her mom came to theshoot and they were just so
amazingly cool.
I didn't know what to expectbecause she's so reserved and
(57:46):
everything but super cool.
I got too many.
I got too many.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Okay, okay, my bad, this is the last question.
All right, give me we'll saytwo, but you know you always
like to do triples, so I'll saythree.
Give me three of your favoriteBrooklyn artists.
Speaker 2 (58:04):
Three of my favorite Brooklyn artists.
Three of my favorite Brooklynartists.
Damn, that's tough, becausethree ain't enough.
Three of my favorite Brooklynartists One is Fab.
Okay, I'm putting Jay and Bigin number two.
I'm putting them together.
That don't make no sense, don'tdo that.
Fab, jay, big.
Three Little Kim, nice one.
(58:26):
And three, three fab.
J big, three little kim, niceone.
And three.
Three a b is kim and foxy.
I'm a man, listen.
I was listening to foxy theother day and I was like yo, she
was spitting on this man, she,yo and the weight.
You know what it is?
foxy spit like a dude like likerough and direct and very clear.
(58:49):
There's no Kim does it withlike a little like she's still
like feminine.
Yeah, foxy, you would not thinkshe look like how she sound.
Yeah, like she's incrediblydirect and the lyrics are potent
.
So Fab J, big, foxy Kim.
Speaker 1 (59:08):
I like that.
I like that.
I always tell people thatpeople J and Big in my opinion
actually did have a battle.
It was J writing for Foxy andKim writing for Big.
Speaker 2 (59:24):
Those girls battled.
Speaker 1 (59:25):
They were battling through them.
Yes, they were yes they were.
Yeah, people, yes, they were,and.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
I and I think and I think Jay showed his hand when
he did that joint with Kim andhe was like how big going to
trust you in the studio with memaking sure I stay right with
little C's and all that Likelike big C's in them to make
sure they hear them.
How big going to trust you inthe studio with me, like I love
that dude man.
Speaker 1 (59:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
Because he's saying what everybody's thinking,
absolutely Like.
I know y'all thinking this Likeoh, I'm on the top of it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
He going to trust me with the high yeah, you know
what I'm saying, you know.
You know it's to be expected,of course, you know that's real.
That's real, that's real.
Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
That was it, man, Thank you man, I really
appreciate this man.
Of course no.
Thank you, bro.
Thank you and much love to you.
Thank you, man, and I need toget you back in New York, man,
we need that energy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
We're going to get you back.
That's the plan, Tom.
You got to get back.
You got to get back home.
Atlanta's nice, you know, butit ain't home bro.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Yeah, it's different.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
It's not home.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
It's different.
It ain't home.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
I never realized how much of a New Yorker I was until
I left.
Of course.
That's when we know I'm a NewYorker, dude.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Trust me, I know, you know, I know I'm definitely
going to be out there.
I'm going to come see you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Please do man Again thank you for everything.
Dave, you can catch Mixed andMastered on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend.
I'm your host, jeffrey Sledge.
Mixed and Mastered is producedand distributed by Merrick
Studios.
Now for part two of Dayton Thomas on Mixed and
Mastered.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,a podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
(00:21):
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
So wait, I know you worked atHooked, but I'm going to skip
that for a second.
Yeah, I want to go to King.
(00:41):
Okay, no problem.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
King Magazine let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.
Yes, indeed, that's.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Shooky.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Trees.
It's a legendary.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh man, I mean, it's your story.
You tell it, I was a fan.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So basically me and Black, that's what I had one of
my duties was to curate the okayup front section, which is like
the front part of the magazine,and the front the front part of
the magazine usually consistedof like the masthead where
everybody names get in.
You know, some of those firstideas you see on the creative
side.
But it also had the letterssection, when people would write
(01:25):
letters about the previousissue we have no email and all
that for them to be sendingstuff or social media.
They would hand write lettersfrom jail, from everywhere all
over the world, and I did thisout of like just pure fandom
because I was a fan.
They would have hundreds ofmail envelopes and boxes, dozens
(01:51):
of boxes of mail.
I would go through each one,read each one and hand write
them back and I didn't give them.
Like this was, this is afterwork, like we could get off at
six.
I would be staying until abouteight writing people, eight or
nine writing people.
Yeah, I would do that as likeextracurricular shit.
(02:11):
I would go in the box, I wouldget a box and start opening up
the letters and I would readthese people's life stories and
their problems and their ideas.
And the ideas was what wasreally lucrative for me, because
when I would get these jointsthey would be like yo who was on
page 37?
What rims were those on page 55?
(02:34):
What pants are those on page 98?
They weren't necessarily askingabout the music, they were
asking about the girls we wouldfeature or the lifestyle section
.
Asking about the music.
They was asking about the girlswe would feature, or, yeah,
cars, the lifestyle section.
And even though we had a robustlifestyle section, it seemed
like it wasn't enough.
So you know, over the course oflike a year I had all these
(02:59):
ideas from the people and I waslike Maxim and stuff the men's
magazines was really coming invogue at that time.
They were killing Huge.
They were selling 50% and 60%sell-through rates.
It was crazy.
It was making mad money.
(03:19):
I went to the publishers andtold them that we should do this
magazine based on girls.
Then they was like nah.
So what we ended up doing waswe put it as a section in XXL
called I Can't.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I remember that I remember that Me and Don Morris.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Don Morris was the creator director and you know
the music videos always had alead chick Video Vixen.
So we started incorporatingthat.
But I was also on the wholething of like it shouldn't just
be video girls.
So we started instituting likewomen that were on TV and stuff
like that.
That's where the King stuffstarted coming.
(03:56):
So then when I was able to, youknow, kind of get the idea down
by working it through the eyecandy section in the fashion
stuff and then we added like acar thing, I was like this could
be its own magazine this hasnothing to do with the
hip-hop people that we'reputting on at all.
This is all lifestyle and theydidn't see it at first.
(04:18):
So we ended up leaving doublexl going to hookcom.
And that's when elliot came in,okay, and he took over double
xl, but we went over to hookcomwith the internet thing and then
that internet bubble burst likea year and a half later, and as
it was bursting, everybody thatwas working at hook went to
(04:40):
different spots.
And our boy, jermaine hall, heended up going to the source.
My man, shaheen reed, he waswith us.
He ended up going to mtv mirth.
My man, keith murphy, he endedup going to like daily news or
people or whatever.
Everybody was getting these flyjobs, jeff, and I wasn't.
I wasn't like, I was still atcorporate cars and everything.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
they get real invites to spots.
I'm like I'm still, I'm stillgetting like the hood spot
joints.
I was like hold on, hold on,hold on, hold on.
But I love the fact that mypeople was winning because it
was more opportunity and it waslike it was opening up the doors
and, um, I remember, I remember, man, they started firing
(05:26):
everybody.
So at one point Hook had likemaybe like 60 something, 70
something people.
They got down to like 12 and Iwas one of the 12.
Yeah, I was one of the 12.
It was empty in that warehousedowntown and it was sad too it
was like going to work was likesad, everybody was gone.
It was like no, going to workwas like sad, everybody was gone
(05:46):
it was like no more fun withyour crew.
It was like work, work and thenumbers are dropping.
It was horrible.
So I remember one day I got acall at my desk and it was like
you know, a page from Harris andhe was the publisher for XXL
(06:06):
and for Slam and he had me whenI was over there and he was like
yo, I got an idea.
I think we should bring thatidea you was talking about out.
You know what I mean.
I think we should do that.
I was like what.
He was like yo, let's meet,let's just meet.
I met him for lunch and hestarted talking this King stuff
and at the time we didn't have aname for it.
(06:27):
We're just talking about theidea of what it could be like.
You know, fly motorcycles andcars and girls and fly gear,
just like taking GQ and justmaking it like for us, us you
know what I mean, but the focusbeing on the women and man, oh
man, they gave me the keys.
(06:47):
I drove, I drove.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Who was the first cover of King Layla.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Arcieri from Son of the Beach.
She was the main girl inQ-Tip's Vibrant thing with the
light on.
She was the first one, yeah,first one.
But we had a preview issue thatwas just like for advertisers.
It didn't go on the newsstands,we had a preview issue like a
couple of months before.
So this is 2001.
(07:15):
And around like June of 2001,we dropped a preview issue
explaining what king would be onthat cover.
We had nicole robinson, who waslike a supermodel dark skin,
beauty, long legs, incredibleand she the coolest.
But I think now she got married, it's like galanari or
something like that, and thenshe ended up being in like
(07:38):
different movies and things, butshe was the first one on the
preview.
But then the actual first issuewas Lila Arcieri, which was
supposed to be Gabrielle Unionbecause she was coming out in
the Bad Boys movie, butscheduling made it all messed up
and I had to get a cover outand I couldn't wait any longer.
So I made Lila the cover becauseshe was on Howard Stern's show
(08:02):
called Son of the Beach.
It was like a scoop on Baywatch.
And she was on Howard Stern'sshow called Son of the Beach.
It was like a school pornBaywatch and she was the star of
that.
So I put her on the cover andthen Gabrielle was ready for the
second cover.
I just remember.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
King exploding and it just became a thing like who's
going to be on the next cover?
It was like people wereguessing I don't know.
I remember I would walk down tothe office and y'all would tell
me.
Sometimes I would tell anybodyelse, but I would keep it secret
All the time?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
No doubt, yeah, yeah, yeah, I tell jokes.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Where did you get the white girl from?
From Moesha.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like it just Yup, it justyup.
Yeah, how did?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
it.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
It exploded like that Like what, what, what did that
still sound kind of weird.
But I guess, what did that feellike being in that, that, that
hurricane of just you know itbecame a thing.
It became like a thing that,almost like women who did, if
you didn't do it you wasn'treally popping.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Word.
That was the thing where it wascool for it, cause even the
women that was hesitant would belike, well, damn Tyra did it.
Well, damn Khalees did it, butdamn Kim did it.
And it was like, yeah, they didjump on Like we make it hot.
And and the only reason why Ithink a lot of those women did
it was because we approachedthem naturally.
(09:19):
We didn't approach them on somesuper lusty, we approached them
on like you are a major talentin what you do.
Whatever it is you do, you arethat major talent and we want to
recognize that and let thepeople know about that.
And um, we were very and when Isay we, I'm talking about
myself, my man, adele Henderson,jermaine Hall, bonsu, sean
(09:42):
Malcolm, keith Murphy.
I have all my friends help mebuild it.
That was another thing beingable to come together with my
brothers and really take over tothe point where we got Spike
Lee and different people hittingus about.
All the sports dudes washitting.
They would find my number.
They would find I know all themsports dudes like that.
(10:05):
They would find my number andbe like find I know all them
sports dudes like that.
They would find my number andbe like yo, I need such and such
.
On page 38.
I'm like look man, all I got issome publicist info bro.
That's it, I'm not a pimp, bro.
I'm not a pimp, I'm not a pimp.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I hate to say crazy.
One Wild King magazine story.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I know there's a million of them but just tell me
one, it could be anything, yeahthat's like we don't want a
criminal in the body.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Those women are wives now.
We don't want to.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, oh yeah yeah, a lot of those, a lot of those
different.
Well, I'll say this overall itwas the most incredible time of
my life because I was always onthe go and it's almost like
being the hottest rapper at themoment.
Everybody wants you to featurethem or be featured with them,
(10:57):
or they asking you to jump on atrack, and that's how it was for
me for a while.
Man, it was like the mostincredible experiences being
able to fly private to Paris andstay at Chateaus and be gifted
all types of incredible giftsthat I still have Some of them
in storage, though.
(11:18):
A crazy story.
I guess it's not crazy crazy,but it just showed you like how
determined I was.
So the same gentleman, dennisPage, when we were putting the
magazine together, we had tocome up with the logo and as a
(11:44):
asq cover of tyra banks, as likethe placeholder to show how all
the king logos would look, andI remember he put them on his
floor and this we're looking at,like 12 different pages of the
same tyra shot, but with theking logo.
And he hits my arm like yodon't worry about the picture
(12:05):
because you'll never get Tyra,just concentrate on it.
Concentrate on the logo.
Yo, you told me I would neverget Tyra.
He was like I don't want you tobe that ambitious, I wouldn't
put that kind of pressure on you, like I couldn't get her.
Now, mind you, tyra is.
This is the height of America'sNext Top Model.
(12:25):
It's on fire.
It's on fire, it's a ratingskiller and she's probably one of
the hardest people to get.
So this is 2001.
When he says that, I rememberin my mind I was like I'm going
to make him eat them words.
I remember sitting in hisoffice like I'm going to make
him eat them words.
I'm going to get tyra, I'mgonna get tyra, I'm gonna get
tyra, and it was like I wasobsessive about it.
(12:47):
So what I would do her birthdayis the same day as jay-z's,
december 4th.
Every december 4th and everyvalentine's day for three years,
I would send her flowers.
Excuse me, I found out whereher office was.
I want to say it was in burbank, I can't remember, but it was
definitely in Cali and I don'tknow if she got them.
But I would send them andnobody was sending something
(13:09):
back saying she ain't get them.
They ain't said nothing sayingshe got them, but I would send
them every year like clockwork.
So I ended up running into likesomeone that she was cool with
and they were like yo, to gether man, you gonna have to talk
to Benny Medina or somebody.
I ended up having lunch withBenny Medina.
I think he was managing her atthe time.
(13:31):
Everybody knows Benny Medinafrom Fresh Prince Days and
everything the ultimate big dogI felt like.
I was hot, I'm popping, I'mpopping, I got it.
We met yeah, I'm popping, I'mpopping, I got it.
I got a little bit of marketshare out here we could walk
down the block and you can seemy workout on the street back
(13:51):
then you know what I mean.
And we went to lunch and we hada really dope conversation.
He was like all right, you knowwhat I'm gonna do, I'm put a
word in for you.
I was like I bet he put theword, I got the word back.
People hit or she really wanted.
And at the time she had like acouple of months prior, she did
stuff magazine with some of thegirls from America's Next Top
(14:15):
Model and I remember her tellingme when she, when we got her to
the shoot because I locked itin and all she really wanted was
, um, first class tickets fromla she was like I got everything
else.
I'm gonna bring my mom.
Yep, she brought a mom.
Mom was mad cool and her momwas a photographer, so she had
the odd too.
(14:36):
But this was the craziest partabout getting tyra to the shoot.
We get her there and we don'tknow how many looks we're gonna
do, but she's like on some, likeshe's on model time.
Model time is like this.
Super model time is like thisvixen.
Model time is whenever.
Whenever we get the shot, weget the shot.
She was like this, she was likeall y'all.
So this must be around like 11.
(14:56):
She's like all right y'all.
Boom, boom, boom.
Did the first one boom change,got into the second one.
Boom, boom, boom, boom.
It's like 11, 30, like damn, wegot two looks already.
Now I got the whole spot untillike five or six.
I'm thinking it's going to be along ass day.
It's like eleven thirty.
We already breezed through totwo looks.
Third look she's walking offthe set of the second one, took
(15:21):
off the bikini thing of thesecond one, took off the bikini
thing.
She's naked, grabs the velvetcurtain, wraps it around her
breasts and her private andwrapped it around her and was
like take the shot, just grabbedthe velvet.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
It was like a velvet.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Like this thing right here, but velvet, she just
wrapped it around her.
That was like the third shot.
It's not even noon yet.
Third shot, boom.
Not even noon yet.
Third shot, boom.
We done for that.
We eat.
We're done eating by like 1220.
She does like two more looks byone o'clock.
We over with.
(15:58):
We started at 11.
We done with five looks.
We're done in two hours.
I couldn't believe it.
I'm like I'm thinking, man, wedon't have Tyra all day.
She don't got time, she shemaking money, she got shit to do
this is part of her day thisain't her day.
This is one piece.
(16:18):
And what you know what thattaught me, man?
That taught me getting out,let's go, and she wasn't even
like hurry up, it was justprofessional.
And it made me look at everyshoot after in a different way.
We became so much moreefficient, bro.
It's me witnessing how sheoperated with her team.
(16:45):
You know the trust she operatedwith her team, you know the
trust she had in her mom thetrust she had in us, cause she
said this was the illest thingthat she said to me.
She was like yo, you know why Idid it.
She was like y'all cater toyoung black men and everything.
If I could do the white boysover there stuff, I could do my
brother's hair king.
That's dope.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Much love.
Tyra could get anything from me, bro Anything but the thing
that I got from her was how tobecome more efficient as a
professional.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Tell me a little.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, more thorough.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Tell me a little bit about Rides magazine, then let's
go to Grind.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, no doubt.
So Rides was crazy, becausethat was still an idea from XXL
days.
The lifestyle part, because wewould put Scarface with a car or
whoever was hot at the momentwith a car in XXL.
So when I knew going into Kingwhich this is like a little
asterisk, this is the asteriskif we didn't do king, we were
(17:50):
going to do rides first, becausethe advertising market was
there that's where the trims waspopping every car company and
all that urban kids, every video.
Yes, customizing everything, all, even down to the paint.
Everything was was, like youknow, car industry driven days
before the ubers and all thatstuff.
(18:11):
So we were going to do that atfirst if I'm being all the way
chronological but then we waslike, you know, if we pull back,
we could come, we could jumpback to that idea and we put
rides inside King as a sectionand we did like Busta Rhymes
first, a couple of footballplayers back, then those are the
only dudes.
(18:31):
That was like really gettingcar money like that, the rapper
dudes wasn't really getting allthat big dog car money outside
of like a big artist.
Yeah, somebody had to be hugeto have a big artist.
You had to, you had to reallybe doing it.
So, anyway, king startedNovember of 2021.
(18:52):
We started Rod's like May of2003,.
And we put Tyrese on the coverbecause he was starring in the
second installment of Fast andthe Furious and that made sense
to us, but it didn't make senseto the publishers.
They didn't.
They was like who the hell isthe?
Because they always went oncelebrity power and he wasn't as
(19:13):
big yet.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Franchise yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I was like the franchise is huge.
I was like don't worry abouthim.
I was like worry about usputting Fast and the Furious on
there.
It's going to suck man.
That shit took off.
I said I got another hit.
You know what it felt like?
It felt like I was an artistwith King, yeah.
(19:36):
And then I got my artist name,you got my John Legend.
You got what you said.
I got my Eminem.
Yeah, exactly that's how I felt, man.
I was like yo, I got yeah,because I know I'm gonna keep
popping with king.
And then I got, I got rise.
Now it was crazy and we reallytook the car industry by storm.
The only real competition wehad back then excuse me, the
(20:01):
only real competition we hadback then was um, dub, my man
miles, and I'm over at dub outof cali because it's a car
culture his cars.
It's a car culture.
It's a whole different thingthan what we were doing.
We were like celebrity-drivencar stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
We got the low-riders out there and all that stuff.
They are real car fans.
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
They grew up in those kind of cars.
We grew up on a two andthree-train.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Getting a ride was a big deal, I got a car, word Word
.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You had your favorite cab driver you know, the gypsy
cab, the gypsy cab that's whatit was back then, you know, or
the gypsy cab joys you had yourfavorite one.
So it was a little differentfor us when we, when we came on
the scene, but we killed it.
Man, like every major carcompany wanted to mess with us,
(20:58):
we got everybody.
I'm talking pharrell, 50, snoopshack, ice cube, cadillac, you
know.
I'm saying everybody wanted toshow their joints off, man, and
we were getting pitched thatthat brand alone, man, oh my
goodness, it was starting tocatch up the king.
It was crazy.
(21:19):
It was crazy like so I couldn'tlose in that building, man.
And um, I remember, elliot,there was a rolling stone
article, or or I think it wasrolling stone, where def jam had
this thing, where Irv was likewho's the hottest nigga in the
building?
Because you had Def.
(21:40):
Jam overall, and then you hadall the labels and he was like
we the hottest, meaning MurderInc.
But then you have Rough Ridersyou have Rockefeller, and then
you have regular yeah,disturbing the Peace.
And then you have regular DefJam and it was like all the
(22:03):
people who ran those wanted tobe the hottest nigga in the
building and elliot looked atharris as def jam excel
rockefeller you know yeah kingcould have been like rough
riders.
Rods was like murder inc and Igot two of them.
It was great.
He was like yo, I'm still thehottest nigga in the building.
Yo, we used to laugh.
So we used to laugh on that somuch that one day we was like yo
, we're gonna have to collab onsomething.
And um, we ended up making amagazine that made money
(22:27):
together.
It was called hip-hop, hip-hopsoul.
We did hip-hop soul magazine,which combined hip hop and R&B.
And who we put on the firstcover?
R Kelly, I think it was.
R Kelly was on the first.
Then we put Ne-Yo and KeishaCole, then we put Usher, then we
(22:51):
put I can't even remember.
We just kept coming out withthese issues, man, and it was so
dope because that was our firsttime working together, so it
was like you got pharrell andkanye to do an album together.
You know, I'm saying like, andwe became tighter by doing that
project together.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, it was short lived, like maybe three years.
So after did it, after this run, it was crazy you became the
XXL editor.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
It was crazy.
So, jermaine, we bumpedJermaine up to editor-in-chief.
I moved for King, I moved up toeditorial director where I
oversaw all the magazine titles,and then I was also helping out
with some of the othermagazines that was at Harris,
like Fuego and stuff like that.
(23:37):
And then Elliot left XXL and itwas tumultuous and all types of
crazy.
It was all in the media andeverything.
And then I, um, I was, I was, uh, I was in my office like yo,
that's crazy.
I was like yo, yo, jeff, thisis wild.
I was like yo, that's.
I was like yo, that's crazy.
Elliot is out cause I ain'teven get a chance to talk to him
(23:59):
before he left.
And I was like damn man.
I was like yo, I don't know whogonna be crazy enough to step
in his shoes.
I was like that's fire, likewhoever gotta go do do the shit
after him.
They crazy, they must be nutsand I'm talking shit.
And then, next thing, you know,I got a car, exactly, and I was
(24:21):
like at first I was like, nah,I'm good, I'm good.
They was like look you in thebuilding already.
You started at that brand.
You know the brand.
Y'all cool, you still on it.
We're going to give you thisamount.
I was like if y'all up that,I'll do it.
But they more than upped it,man, they roofed it.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I'll be there Monday.
How long were you the editor ofDouble XL?
Like a?
Year, a year and a few monthsand we'll be right back welcome
to Merrick Studios, wherestories take the mic and culture
(25:06):
comes alive.
We're not just a network, we'refamily.
And we'll be right back wherethe conversation starts and
keeps going.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Check out our full lineup, including Unglossy with
Bun B, jeffrey Sledge and myself, tom Frank Now streaming at
wearemerickstudioscom.
Master the art of lyricism withPendulum Inc, the first school
for rap.
Learn elite techniques throughimmersive lessons, real-world
exercises and guidance fromhip-hop icons.
This is where MCs sharpen theirskills and glow boldly on the
(25:37):
mic.
Ready to level up?
Visit penduluminccom and startyour journey today.
And now back to the show butwhile I was there, I created the
freshman.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, yeah, I created the freshman.
So what happened with that waselliot, like months prior to him
leaving, had put together thiscover of the new school of hip
hop and he had like 10 dudes onthe cover in all white and
called it the new school and itwas like Saigon, papoose, boozy,
(26:11):
crooked Eye cats like that.
I think Joe Button, it was likecats like that.
I think joe button it was likecats like that and I saw that.
But at king we had somethingcalled the coming kings that we
would do every year where wewould select the top people we
thought was going to take overin different genres, all the way
down to aerospace.
We would get astronaut dudesand we said we, we called Hart
(26:35):
early, we call so many peopleearly.
We would have themes like that.
We had an all white theme andthat year we had Kanye, common,
paul Wall, mike Jones, terrenceHoward, trey Songz.
It was crazy.
It was crazy.
So I was already used to doingthat type of stuff like
(26:56):
forecasting, but when I got toXXL I felt like yo, this idea
with the new school we could.
We could improve on it bymarketing it better, giving it a
sexier title than new school,and we should bring in the dudes
.
That's killing it on theInternet, because at this point
(27:16):
all the mixtape it wasSoundCloud, blog era, soundcloud
was on fire, blog era.
So I started picking those kindof guys that I thought would go
to that next level, like KidCudi, Ace Hood, mickey Facts,
blue Peter Gunn's son, coreyGuns, mickey Fax, blue Peter
(27:38):
Gunson, corey Guns.
And then on the cover was likeBOB, charles Hamilton, asher
Roth and Wale, so called it thefreshman.
And, mind you, the publishersand some of the staff did not
want me to do this because theyfelt like I didn't work for
Elliot, it's not going to workfor us.
I was like I'm not Elliot,trust me.
Oh, it didn't work for Elliot,it's not going to work for us.
I was like I'm not Elliot.
Trust me, I know how to get mythings over the line that I'm
(28:02):
doing, not that he didn't,because he lifted it up.
He lifted the brand up fromwhere we left it Because when I
left that's when he came in Ijust felt like I knew what I was
doing because I got my kingcredentials, trust me.
I knew what I was doing becauseI got my king credentials,
trust me.
I know what I'm doing.
And next thing, you know, Icame up with the whole cypher
(28:22):
thing of unveiling them but notunveiling them.
I had everybody hide their facein a creative way and they had
to do like a 16 at the shoot andthen we would put the clips out
on YouTube to promote it andyou had to guess which rapper it
was.
Pardon me, that createdanticipation and I'm a marketing
(28:45):
dude at the same time.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
If I'm going to put something together I'm going to
have to plan on how we're goingto get people to see it.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
That did it.
Then, I believe, we had like anunofficial dj who did mixtape.
That went along with, I thinkhe did it.
So it was crazy, yeah so.
So my time at double excel mecoming back was was like proving
that my hip-hop chops was stillthere and I was still on point.
And like I'm no joke in this,like I really do this, like
(29:21):
don't think that just becauseI'm shooting girls over here and
cars and shit I'm a real editor.
I know that's how I got in.
Yeah, I'm a real one with this.
And I not only did I feel likeI proved that to others, I
proved it to myself, because Iwanted to be able to say to me
yeah, boy, you did that.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You did that Global Grind.
Now, who ran Global Grind?
That was Russell's thing.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Russell Simmons.
That was Russell's joint, andwhat was crazy about it was
while I was at XXL even while Iwas at King he came at me one
time and was like yo, we need totalk about doing some stuff and
I was like alright, bet, let'sdo it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And I think it was because I had all the sexy girls
on there.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I was like Russell.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Russell just wanted to be the girls man.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
He just wanted access to the King joints.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
He don't want to talk to me, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
You know the hip-hop guy don't want to talk to me
about it.
But so then when I bounced overto XXL and I started making
strides, I think they saw likeall right, we need to really
lock in on hip hop.
And this guy got got a hold onit right now and it came at me
(30:32):
like twice, I ain't like thenumbers.
And I was like what kind ofstaff is it?
I think at the time Kim Azario,from the source, was running it
and they were doing like thingsthat were a little bit more in
the female lane.
So I didn't see it as like,okay, I could jump in and take
those things over and do them.
Well, because that was forwomen.
I was like, if I do it, I'mgonna have to like reconfigure
(30:52):
this.
And I remember talking to her asshe was leaving.
She was like yo, I've beenhearing your name around here a
lot.
I was like, oh, they seriouslike that.
She was like, yeah, I think youshould sit down with them for
real, for real.
So off her.
I was like I bet I sat downwith them, told them the numbers
, and the numbers was supergreat.
And I was like the only thingwas that meant I had to leave
(31:13):
double xl and I just got yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
And I just got that freshman shit.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
We on fire, we talking about taking it.
I got to go into the next level.
I got to, but around that timeI just had my third daughter.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
I got diapers to buy.
You know what I'm saying.
I got formula to buy.
I can't move around.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
I needed that paper man, I was like, yes, and I, I'm
going to be real man.
My third daughter was thereason, I think, I made that
move so boldly.
She had just turned like a year, she was just over a year and
everything.
And I was thinking about thetimes of now where this past
(31:49):
Saturday, I dropped her off tostart at Howard.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Way back then.
Yeah, and I was thinking likethat.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know what I'm saying, this was 18 years ago,
way back then.
Yeah, and I was thinking likethat, you know what I'm saying,
this was 18 years ago back then.
So I think I did the rightthing, but I do feel like I wish
I had my hand in freshmanlonger.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
I can't front.
Vanessa did her.
Thing.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Vanessa did her thing .
She definitely took it andelevated it.
My man Rob.
I can't front Vanessa.
Vanessa did her thing.
Yeah, she definitely took itand elevated it.
My man Rob Markman everybodythat stayed behind.
They made sure the shit wasdope.
It still continues today,regardless of what people want
to think of the quality ofartists.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
They can't make the artists, they're just going to
promote them.
They can't build the artistsfrom scratch or whatever.
So wait, after this, you went.
You went back to vibe.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, then I went back.
Well, after go global grind, Iwent into Silicon Valley and I
started yeah, I started dealingwith Steve jobs wife or widow,
lorraine.
She was a partner in a companycalled Ozzy with Carlos Watson,
who was just pardoned by Trump,which sounds crazy.
(33:05):
It's crazy, Yo, that Silicon.
Valley world man.
Everybody think the streets iscrazy.
They think the streets is grimy.
They think having beef on thestreets is crazy.
Have some digital beef.
That's what I'm saying.
They think having beef on thestreets is saying have some
digital beef.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
That's what I'm saying.
They got some bread out there.
Look at that like 20, 30million on your head.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It's crazy, it's crazy.
So I was with them for a whileand then, while I was with them,
vi called how was that?
And I went back to Vi.
Yeah, that was crazy.
No, I'm getting it mixed up, mybad, my bad.
That was the second time I wentback.
The first time I went back toVibe was right after Global
(33:46):
Grind.
I was selling for a while.
I was freelancing for a littlebit for like maybe six, seven
months.
Then I went back to Vibebecause Jermaine and Lynn
Burnett and Brett Wright that'sright I forgot they were Vibe.
They had Vibe out of bankruptcy.
Totally forgot about that andyeah, that's why I skipped over
it too, my bad.
And then I went back with themand that was like 2009, going
(34:11):
into 10.
And I was there until 2013.
2013 is when I went over toOzzy and that's when I was doing
the Silicon Valley thing.
I was flying out to San Franevery three weeks.
I would fly out to San Jose orSan Francisco and I would be in
(34:32):
Mountain View and I was workingon their website, which was kind
of like a blend of HuffingtonPost and Washington Post.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
It's not that long ago, but all these things are
gone now.
Even Huffington Post is goneand obviously OZ is gone and
they're around, but it's not thesame and Vibe is gone and it's
a trip yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Social media, man, social media, same and vibe is
gone and it's a trip.
Yeah, yeah, social media,everything, social media, social
, and nobody I don't thinkanybody has done the jump.
Yeah, right, yeah, outside,yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right,
you know what I mean?
No one has done it to the, tothe.
It's like, it's almost like aseamless run even big places
like Rolling.
Stone, they just haven'tfigured it out.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
They can't figure it out nah, they didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
They can't figure it out, because it was because I
feel like a lot of those brandswere birthed during, you know,
the print era and they stayedtrue to that ethos, whereas
complex kind of came out justbefore the blog era.
You know what I'm saying.
So, yeah, they kind of likelived in that space a little bit
(35:49):
more so, where people could doonline shopping.
It went with their aesthetic asthey were coming out as being
buy, collect obsess.
That was their mantra.
Online, where were you buyingstuff?
You were buying it online.
They were heavily more onlineand they would tell you go to
this website, go to that website.
Whereas print was like go tothis store, go to that store,
(36:13):
you know like it's.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
It's a mentality and the convenience across the board
of you know like it's amentality and the convenience
across the board of down to nowordering food, the convenience
of being able to do somethingwithout leaving your crib, you
know, and getting food or withgrails or getting clothes, crazy
.
And I think that what's?
I'm sure there's studies onthis, I haven't seen them.
(36:36):
But I'm sure there are studieson this, I haven't seen them.
I'm sure they're archived.
I know I didn't figure this out, but it's.
It's.
It's like the um excitement ofgetting a gift, even if you
bought it.
It's the excitement of amazondropping those boxes every day,
or ebay every day, those boxes,those boxes at your doorstep.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It's like I got a gift.
What did I?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
get.
Oh, I didn't know what this is.
Let me open it up.
There's a dopamine thing tothat that I think people slept
on.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's definitely dopamine, and what's crazy is
like it's to the point, like youjust said, you could order
something and totally forgotthat you ordered it.
Until you see it on your stepand be like oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
For a minute?
How many you open up?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
a little bit.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, let me see how it fits or whatever you know, or
even a food thing like thatwith instacart.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Like you know, you don't even have to go to the
grocery store.
No more, bro.
You could just like you're justwatching the netflix's thing.
Ding dong and your wholegrocery is there for the week.
You know what I'm saying?
Ding-ding-dong and your wholegrocery is there for the week.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Uber Eats is my friend.
It's crazy man.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's crazy.
You go back to Vibe.
I feel like I have all my noteshere and then the OZ, then
Respect.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, then Ozzy and then man.
That was crazy too, becausewhile I was doing Ozzy, I was
doing Respect magazine with myman, jonathan Ringo, who was one
of the publishers at XXL.
He had started his own thing.
And once again, here I go.
Elliot was the editor in chiefand then he leaves and I get a
(38:12):
call and I'm like yo, what's up?
He was like yo L bounced.
You know what I'm saying'msaying I got, I got, I gotta get
this issue.
I was like listen man, I can'tbe following this dude man.
He gonna think I'm followinghim, right, but this is the wild
shit about it.
This is the wild shit about meand l's relationship.
I was at double xl before himand left and he came in and then
(38:34):
I took over Right.
I was at respect before he camein.
I did like the first issue whenTony Dravino was the editor in
chief.
He was like the editor in chiefmaybe for one or two issues and
I was and I was writing withthem and talking about getting
more of a, a position, but thenthat's when I was doing my thing
(38:55):
and they needed somebody everyday.
And then Elliot came in andthat's when I was doing my thing
and they needed somebody everyday.
Then Elliot came in and that'swhen I was like all right got it
.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
I wasn't pursuing it Then when he left, they came
back and they looked like I'mfollowing this dude everywhere.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I didn't want to.
I was like yo, I'm notfollowing this dude again, I'm
not doing it, I don't want to go.
Yeah, just call day.
And I was like yo, I'm notfollowing this dude again, I'm
not doing it, I don't wantpeople to feel like I'm
following this dude and I'mdoing that.
So then, uh, jr was like nah,you was here first, started out
like nobody give a fuck aboutthat, they're not gonna see that
.
And he was like nah, nah, nah,come on, man, I need the help.
I was like all right for you,I'm gonna do this.
(39:34):
And I had a amazing time doingrespect, man, like I think I did
some of my favorite work there.
I really yo, it was wow becauseI just got to focus on the
music.
I didn't have to focus onlifestyle or girls or cars or
anything, I just so I doubleddown on the music.
(39:54):
I added a battle rapper sectionand was given battle rappers,
full features, not littlecolumns, and oh, they doing a
battle.
I treated them like they wereplatinum stars.
So it was dope.
That's what people first reallylearned about daylight, when
they first really learned aboutSmack and Beasley, and in there
(40:15):
you know their plight because alot of the hip hop magazines was
using them as footnotes becauseit was such an offshoot of hip
hop culture andyeah, it's like a subculture and
I was like, nah, we gottaelevate it.
So I did that with respect.
That's one of the things Iloved about doing with that
magazine.
And then one of my favoritephotos ever is the cover I did
(40:39):
with young thug and baby fromcash money.
That cover is so crazy and Ithink I forgot what I call it
dirty money or something likethat.
I forgot it was so crazy.
Black and white shot from thisangle.
Looking up them.
Dudes was from this angle.
(41:00):
Looking up them.
Dudes was 15 hours late to theshoot and when they came they
were so late.
How late were they?
They were so late I had toswitch out photographers.
They were so late that one ofthe photographers, after waiting
for seven hours, had to leaveto go get their kid and couldn't
come back.
So there was a point while I'mwaiting for them to come to the
shoot.
(41:20):
I didn't have a photographer.
If they showed up Like theywould have came in because they
so late, they would have came inand not have a photographer.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
They were so late that I gave me three hours to
find one.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I found it and they were still.
It was after that they werestill like two hours late after
I found one.
And I found one.
I found the dopest one.
My man Dwayne he's ill man hedid all the dope Atlanta shoots
out there, all the guys thathave like epic and legendary
shots.
He did it and he did that oneman and he had to go on.
(41:55):
He had to leave straight fromthe shoot and catch an
international flight.
He did that before his flight.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Tell me about Dick Clark.
I love that guy man to this day.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Well, yeah, so boom after Respect bounced back to
Vibe and I know we're skipping abig portion of it, but y'all
heard my Vibe story.
I go back to Vibe because thestaff asked for me after and
this is funny jermaine waseditor-in-chief, jermaine hall,
who worked with me at king.
He left and the staff asked forme to come back, which was like
(42:28):
the blessing of all blessings,because then I it took me out of
the freelance world.
I didn't have to kill what Ieat all the time, you what I
mean.
I was able to chill for aminute because I was going hard
for like a year and a half and Iwent back to Vibe.
This is 2015, now, early 2015.
(42:48):
And I didn't leave until 2023.
I was there for a minute.
And what's so crazy is while Iwas at Vibe, around 2018, is
when I got introduced to theDick Clark family.
They were their owners and ourowners of Vibe, billboard and
Hollywood Reporter.
Ok, they ended up doingbusiness together as MRC Media
(43:13):
Rights Capital, media rightscapital and they put out like a
bunch of movies and stuff.
And they have other brands,like a 24 and deals with like
full well 73, which is JamesCorden.
So when they had Dick Clark.
We all had to do a businessleader retreat and I was the
leader of vibe.
So when I got there, they satme next to one of the executives
(43:33):
at Dick Clark and I was writingideas about what they should be
doing, based off some of thethings that the company was
telling us they wanted to do.
And I was like yo, dick Clarkto do excellent.
And I got notes and he'slooking.
He's like yo, you should cometo one of our meetings.
I was like, oh yeah, you damnright, cause I'm thinking like
yo, I want to get into TV andfilm.
And that was like my end and myideas were dope and they were
(43:58):
thinking, like, alright, cool,well, one way you can help us is
try to book some of thesepeople for us that you, these
ideas that you want to do, seeif you could make those happen.
And I started making it happen.
And next thing, you know, I gota job consulting Dick Clark
while I'm editor-in-chief of VODand that started to cultivate
(44:18):
seriously.
I got a job consulting DickClark while I'm editor in chief
of VOD and that started tocultivate seriously in 2019.
Then the pandemic hit.
But this is the craziest thingabout the pandemic.
It opened up my opportunitybecause now a lot of the people
couldn't move around and somewere scared to go to things and
stuff like that and it was like,can you go to the shoot?
You know COVID compliance andall that man, I did the COVID
(44:41):
compliance so I could be on theset.
And I was on the set and I diduh, I did like a, a remote
taping for big for killer Mike,for idea that me and another
employee came together with myhomegirl Sarah.
We came up with this consciouskind of like conscious community
(45:03):
driven award for the BillboardAwards.
We had it's called GameChangers and we had a killer
might receive the first one andthen we ended up having, like
trade the truth do the secondone and all that.
But during that time I'mbecoming a producer for real and
I ended up getting hired fulltime.
When the new owner came over,who was also the owner of Vibe,
(45:26):
he asked me to move from Vibe toDick Clark.
Wow, I started doing all theshows.
I even did the country show YepOut in Nashville, and at that
point Stephen Hill from BET, hecomes in and he becomes like an
exec.
So I'm working on his team andI'm learning from him.
And then, who does he bring in?
He brings in Jesse Collins.
(45:47):
So I'm working with, I'mworking directly with, Jesse.
Collins, dion Harmon, who'samazing.
And Stephen Hill.
How did this happen?
Yeah, like what, stephen Hill.
How did this happen?
Like what?
How did this happen?
Yo and I'm working on AmericanMusic Awards with them.
I'm ushering in.
I'm making sure New Edition isright, cardi is straight.
(46:10):
I'm making sure Tyler's good.
I'm making sure Nelly gets somelove.
I'm booking Jha and Ashanti forNew Year's Rockin' Eve I'm
booking, yeah, like every, notthis year, but the past three to
four years I did the 1145 slot.
(46:30):
That was my slot going into NewYear's and that was the top
rated part of the show.
So I could walk away knowingthat I booked and made happen
like that pivotal point wherepeople are shedding their last
year going into their new year,and me and my grandmother used
to watch that show together andI'm like damn.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
I'm working on this show.
Yeah, full circle.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Full circle no it was crazy man Full circle.
She would have lost her mindknowing I worked on that show.
You know what I'm saying.
And um, it's been amazing, butall good things.
Just the last couple of weeks Itransitioned out of Dick Clark.
I'm still consulting for them.
(47:15):
It's a good transition becausenow I'm working for myself.
I have my own productioncompany, daylight Media.
I've got a couple of clientsworking on some award shows
right now.
You're still popping.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
You're still popping.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
You can't stop.
You can't stop, I'm still goingman, I'm still going.
I'm still going.
I can't, man, I can't.
But I will tell you it tried tostop me because last October I
had the heart attack thing andthat just sat me down in the
weirdest way and technicallyit's not a heart attack, but
(47:53):
that's the best way tocategorize it.
It was like my aortic valvethat fuels all the blood through
your body to all yourextremities and organs.
It ruptured at the top of myheart and I had already had high
blood pressure.
So that tookured at the top ofmy heart and I had already had
high blood pressure.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
So yeah, that took me over the top.
I wasn't taking my medicineyeah I was traveling and I was
like I'm gonna get it.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
I'm gonna get it.
It's only been a day.
I'm good.
I'm good not knowing because,like I remember, when it
happened and after I was able totalk to everybody, a friend of
mine was like yeah, you lookbloated Like on your stories,
like I was like they got fat andI was retaining so much fluid
properly because I wasn't takingmy medicine.
(48:36):
And I look back at those photos.
I was like damn right and theysaw that in the stories that I
was posting.
But my heart attack story islike you know, I don't even know
how I was posting, but my heartattack story is like a fucking
movie.
I don't even know how I'm here.
God's grace and love.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I haven't said this on the show before, but the
initial kernel of me doing thispodcast started from I actually
had a stroke in 22.
Yeah, same thing Not taking mymedication, same shit, what.
Yeah, so I had a stroke andthen, you know, I was in the
whole vein.
I passed away.
And this one passed away and Iheard Clark was sick and I was
(49:14):
like you know what?
And the kernel of me doing thispodcast was, like you know, I
want to get with people as muchas I can to talk about health.
This really was supposed to beabout health.
I was like let's talk abouthealth because so many of us in
the entertainment business wedon't take care of ourselves.
I'm taking my medication, we'rerunning, we're not sleeping,
we're traveling all over theplace Drinking.
(49:35):
Didn't run into the airport.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Staying up late.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
You talk about your health issue, which I'm
obviously very glad you wereable to overcome.
It brought me back to that.
I said this is more abouthealth than about people's
careers.
But then it morphed because Iwas like you know what, let me
give people their flowers.
That's what's up.
Let me give people theirflowers.
I don't know.
I wanted to get on the show andtalk about their careers
(50:03):
because I was like first of all,I know some amazing people that
have done amazing things behindthe scenes.
People might not know the stuffthat people do so and and how
they they've really pushed theculture forward.
You don't really know theartists, but seeing, but you
know hearing these stories.
I think it's very helpful.
I'm glad you're thinking.
I think it's very helpful.
(50:24):
I'm glad you're taking care ofyourself.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Appreciate you, bro man.
Yeah, it's been a rough road.
Like all of November of lastyear was my recovery.
I was in the hospital for like10 days.
They gave me like a six-houropen heart surgery thing, had my
heart out my chest, had all myblood out my body Crazy.
And then all of November I wasjust working so I could get back
(50:48):
on set because I knew I had newyear's rock and eve and I had
already booked like dj cassidyand ja rule and fat joe and
slick rick and and and dougiefresh and I was like nah, I
can't miss that, you gotta chill.
So I was working to get back tothere but the doctors was like
you got to get back, I bet.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Cause, like yo, we barely let me go.
The last one Barely let me goEver.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Exactly Wow, this is what got you here.
This is what got you here so.
But now I'll tell you this, man, life has been even before.
Life was always so beautiful tome Always.
It's even more so now wasalways so beautiful to me Always
.
It's even more so now Becausenow that I've dropped my
daughter off to college my otherdaughter, my middle one,
(51:33):
graduated college this year myoldest has got her first her own
kindergarten class.
Now she's a full-fledgedteacher in Atlanta.
I wouldn't have been able tosee those things you know what I
mean and to make 50 like in May.
It's been beautiful, bro.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
A couple of quick questions, fun questions.
Yes sir, yes sir, tell me whoyou wanted to get on a cover of
King magazine but weren't ableto get.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Oh, man, the ones that got away.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Let me go down.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Let me go down the list.
Beyonce and I pitched for her,with her publicist and her team.
I pitched for her like fivetimes.
Why did they say no?
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Probably Jay.
Yeah, keeping it real.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
Yeah, that's exactly that's what I want to say.
What that's what I want to say,that's what I want.
But I think, I think at thetime they were really trying to
get her over the mainstream hump.
Okay, and we might have been alittle too, as much as we
weren't hood.
I think we might have been alittle too hood, but we weren't
hood, you know, in their eyes,that would have been a nice one
damn.
(52:45):
Yeah, Beyonce, was it.
Man.
I tried five different timesover the course of six, seven
years.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
You even hit a hole with the Brooklyn shit and all
that.
None of that.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
One time I've seen them at 40-40.
I was going to be like yo man,I'll even let you shoot it.
Word, let me get it.
I got too scared.
I got too scared.
I ain't saying nothing, no, butwe did get Kelly.
We got Kelly a bunch of times.
I remember that I gave LatoyaLucky the cover when she was
doing her solo thing, and thenSerena Williams was another one,
(53:20):
and what made Serena hurt sobad that we didn't get her is
that I seen her in paris and shewas with brett ratner okay and
I was looking at brett, like you, lucky dog man you know, you
know you, that was so far out ofhis league bro you out your
league right now.
And they was, they was togetheror whatever, and I wanted to run
(53:41):
up on her.
But I was with my wife.
My wife was like she chilling,we'll get her another time.
And I was like all right,because my wife used to real
shit.
She she would be like why don'tyou get such and such?
You know what I'm saying?
like she would let me knowpeople yeah, all the time, and
they would always be a hit.
And she, she saw, she knew howbad I wanted serena, but she was
like, nah, this ain't the time,just leave her alone.
(54:03):
And and then the last one, it'sthe top three Beyonce, serena
and Halle Berry.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
You never got Halle.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Never got Halle.
Nope, never got Halle man andshe did stuff for FHM for one of
the movies.
I was so mad I was like yellingin the office, I used to get
emotional over King.
Because I used to get emotionalover king, you know, I used to
get emotional like I was heatedthat she did them and we didn't
(54:33):
get a shot.
I was like oh no, no, no, butshe still looked good, she still
looked good yeah, those are thethree, though Tell me your
favorite King cover.
Yikes, damn, they all got liketheir own special thing, but the
first one that comes to mind isFree.
(54:54):
Free was 106 and Park, becauseI had pursued her for so many
years and she kept telling me no, kept telling me no, and then
she finally said yes, I feltlike I won the damn championship
.
Man, I tell you, I wanted toget the goggles and the
champagne and just like yeah, Iremember that cover yeah, and
(55:20):
she ended up becoming the numberone seller yeah, I remember
that cover, that cover wasvolume wise, volume wise.
I bet the woman that we shot themost ironically which is so
crazy, and I didn't realize ituntil like after everything was
trina.
Trina got them like five covers.
Wow, yeah, I would never thinkI would be like oh shit, trina.
But I'll tell you this abouttrina real quick, and this is no
(55:43):
disrespect, trina, I love you.
If you see this, understand,this is in all love.
This is just how I remember it.
We had to for her first coverwith us.
We had to go to Miami and wehad to start at like three in
the morning because we did bodypaint.
We had a body paint artist comeand body paint her and it took
them like three hours, so thatputs you around like 6 37 in the
(56:05):
morning.
Then we had we didn't do it onSouth Beach.
We ain't want a bunch of peopleto crowd, so we took it to
another I think I forgot BayBeach or Cocoa Beach or whatever
beach is over there and it'sgoing to hit me and we took over
there.
So it's early in the morning,we are chilling, it's nice, the
water is cold as heck and I'mlike yo, she a trooper, she out
(56:27):
here, body painted, and then itwas like these figures was
walking down the beach and I'mlike, damn, they thick, they
thick as crazy.
What?
I was like yo, who's all thesepeople coming?
And it was like three women andthey was like hey.
She was like hey, mom.
I said who is?
Speaker 1 (56:43):
your mom.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
And her mom passed.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Yeah, her mom passed away.
God bless, god bless.
Speaker 2 (56:49):
God bless, mom was crazy Smoking.
I was like yo, we going toshoot mom.
Mom was like boy, you betterget out of here.
Get out of here, and we gotcool like that.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
And I was just hugging her up.
I was like yo, you're gonna getany shots, like, come on, now,
you're gonna have to come on,give me the whole family.
Smashing whole whole family wasgangster.
I was like, damn trina, youhiding all them, left them in
the video.
But nah, trina's my girl, sheknows all love.
Um, god, god bless her mom.
And uh, I'm trying to think ofanother one.
(57:25):
Oh, remember Ashley from freshPrince?
Yeah, yeah, I think it'sTatiana.
She was super, duper cool.
Her and her mom came to theshoot and they were just so
amazingly cool.
I didn't know what to expectbecause she's so reserved and
(57:46):
everything but super cool.
I got too many.
I got too many.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Okay, okay, my bad, this is the last question.
All right, give me we'll saytwo, but you know you always
like to do triples, so I'll saythree.
Give me three of your favoriteBrooklyn artists.
Speaker 2 (58:04):
Three of my favorite Brooklyn artists.
Three of my favorite Brooklynartists.
Damn, that's tough, becausethree ain't enough.
Three of my favorite Brooklynartists One is Fab.
Okay, I'm putting Jay and Bigin number two.
I'm putting them together.
That don't make no sense, don'tdo that.
Fab, jay, big.
Three Little Kim, nice one.
(58:26):
And three, three fab.
J big, three little kim, niceone.
And three.
Three a b is kim and foxy.
I'm a man, listen.
I was listening to foxy theother day and I was like yo, she
was spitting on this man, she,yo and the weight.
You know what it is?
foxy spit like a dude like likerough and direct and very clear.
(58:49):
There's no Kim does it withlike a little like she's still
like feminine.
Yeah, foxy, you would not thinkshe look like how she sound.
Yeah, like she's incrediblydirect and the lyrics are potent
.
So Fab J, big, foxy Kim.
Speaker 1 (59:08):
I like that.
I like that.
I always tell people thatpeople J and Big in my opinion
actually did have a battle.
It was J writing for Foxy andKim writing for Big.
Speaker 2 (59:24):
Those girls battled.
Speaker 1 (59:25):
They were battling through them.
Yes, they were yes they were.
Yeah, people, yes, they were,and.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
I and I think and I think Jay showed his hand when
he did that joint with Kim andhe was like how big going to
trust you in the studio with memaking sure I stay right with
little C's and all that Likelike big C's in them to make
sure they hear them.
How big going to trust you inthe studio with me, like I love
that dude man.
Speaker 1 (59:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
Because he's saying what everybody's thinking,
absolutely Like.
I know y'all thinking this Likeoh, I'm on the top of it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
He going to trust me with the high yeah, you know
what I'm saying, you know.
You know it's to be expected,of course, you know that's real.
That's real, that's real.
Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
That was it, man, Thank you man, I really
appreciate this man.
Of course no.
Thank you, bro.
Thank you and much love to you.
Thank you, man, and I need toget you back in New York, man,
we need that energy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
We're going to get you back.
That's the plan, Tom.
You got to get back.
You got to get back home.
Atlanta's nice, you know, butit ain't home bro.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Yeah, it's different.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
It's not home.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
It's different.
It ain't home.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
I never realized how much of a New Yorker I was until
I left.
Of course.
That's when we know I'm a NewYorker, dude.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Trust me, I know, you know, I know I'm definitely
going to be out there.
I'm going to come see you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Please do man Again thank you for everything.
Dave, you can catch Mixed andMastered on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend.
I'm your host, jeffrey Sledge.
Mixed and Mastered is producedand distributed by Merrick
Studios.
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