Lisa Cambridge-Mitchell: Part 1

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In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Jeffrey Sledge welcomes industry vet Lisa Cambridge-Mitchell for a deep dive into her early life and rise in music. From growing up in New York and navigating a volatile home, to founding We Three Marketing and landing at Uptown and LaFace, Lisa shares candid stories of resilience, risk-taking, and working with icons like Andre Harrell, Mary J. Blige, and TLC.

A raw and inspiring look at how she carved her path in a business that wasn’t built to support women—and why her story still resonates today. Tune in for Part 1 now, and stay locked for Part 2 where the story continues.

This is Mixed and Mastered with Lisa Cambridge-Mitchell.

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Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on Mixed and Mastered, we're talking to
Lisa Cambridge Mitchell.
From starting her own marketingcompany with two friends, we3
Marketing, to helping AndreHarrell start Uptown Records, to
heading publicity and marketingat LaFace Records, guiding the
careers of superstars like Usher, tlc and Tony Braxton.
Lisa then moved to HBO, jiveRecords, rca Records and Tidal.

(00:24):
Lisa is the definition of amusic trailblazer.
Lisa is now heading her owncompany, persistent Joy,
coaching creative professionalsto navigate challenges, embrace
growth and reconnect with theirpurpose.
This is Mixed and Mastered withLisa Cambridge Mitchell.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,the podcast where the stories of

(00:48):
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
Mixed and Mastered podcast withour special guest, lisa

(01:16):
Cambridge Mitchell.
Hi, lisa.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hi Jeffrey, how are you?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
I'm doing good.
I got all my peoples coming onhere.
It's been good.
I've been talking to a lot ofpeople and I was going to say,
like it's interesting because Ialways research the interviews,
even though I know, you know,the people, I still want to and
I always find stuff I didn'tknow.
I always find stuff I didn'tknow that, I didn't know, I
didn't realize he did, I didn'trealize he did that, I didn't

(01:45):
know that, I didn't realize youdid that, I didn't realize you
did that or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
But yeah, let's get started.
Okay, I'm so happy for all thepeople that are supporting you,
because I'm hoping that you knowthis, but everybody loves you,
thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
It's so wonderful we're going for a tangent.
It's not even fair for you tosay that, because you and I are
quite a different thing.
No disrespect to anybody that'sbeen on here, because I love
everybody, but we got otherhistory going on.
It's no different.
But anyway, it's deep, it'svery deep.

(02:22):
Exactly One thing I didn't knoware you born on?
Well, you raised in the upperwest side.
Are you raised in harlem?
Yeah, 95th and columbus baby,yeah, I knew, I knew, I knew
your mom's apartment was, but Ididn't know if you had moved
there.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Okay, no, you know what I actually?
Uh, we lived in queens.
We lived in hollis.
When I was little when I wasborn.
we lived in hollis and um, mymom moved to 95th street.
It's really I don't mindsharing this because I feel like
it's.
You know, it is what it is.
My mom, my father, mybiological father, was really
abusive and tried to murder her,and so she sent me to long

(02:58):
Island to live with mygrandparents, and she eventually
moved to the Upper West sideand so I was in Bayshore.
I was born out in Hollis.
In fact, I think I've told youthis before that the dry
cleaners in the tribe video ismy cousin's dry cleaners.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, that's my cousin and I actually don't have
a relationship with thembecause they're on the father's
side.
My father's side of the family.
But yeah, that was always kindof.
I always thought that waspretty cool.
Wow, um, they're really nice.
I remember them when I waslittle, but I didn't know them
later, um, so, yeah, so Ieventually I didn't move to 95th
street.
I think I was about seven yearsold, maybe, okay, um, when I

(03:36):
moved to 95th street and thenthat was it.
We were just.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
My mom was there for ages every time I would ride
past there.
I ride my bike past all thetime.
I'd go from holland down downcentral park west.
I'd cut over on a hunter street, go down columbus, past the
whole foods now, and I'd alwaysremember that's what they said.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
I'd always remember that building, yeah yeah, and it
was such a differentneighborhood, that's all so.
So that.
So our building if you're goingdown columbus, our building is
on the left.
Those those high risesrises onthe right, those were all
tenements with Dominicanimmigrants.
It was such a greatneighborhood.
In fact, when my mom movedthere, my grandfather was a

(04:18):
union organizer for 32B theelevator workers.
So he basically was like justwhat building do you want to be
in?
Okay wow, and they were nothappy that she moved.
They were like, like, just whatbuilding do you want to be in?
And they were not happy thatshe moved.
They were like, oh, it's not asafe neighborhood, but it was a
great neighborhood to grow up in.
You knew everybody.
I mean I still most of myfriends are from that.
Yeah, I loved growing up.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I loved growing up in New York.
That's in New York.
I mean there's pockets of it,but it's not the same.
You go to a neighborhood I grewup in White Plains.
I moved to Riverside on the150th, 92.
I lived there off and on for 20years, probably 20 years.
You get to know everybody inyour neighborhood, the many kids

(05:03):
up on Broadway.
It's kind of a different energy.
You just know people, they knowyou, they knew my son, like
literally like growing up theysee.
So I don't know if New York'squite the same like that, I
guess in pockets I don't knowyeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
I would say to me what I think.
What I would find striking isyou know, we live.
We live in Connecticut now andwe meet people.
What I've seen happen we'vebeen here for 20 years which I
can't even fathom, and what Isaw happen over the last 20
years is when we first moved uphere, you meet somebody and be
like, oh, I moved up here fromNew York.
And they're like, oh, you did,where'd you live?
Oh, I lived here.
Oh, I'm a boop.
You're like, oh, he moved uphere from New York.

(05:44):
And they're like, yeah, likewhere neighbor did you live?
And I grew up in New York,named some neighborhood, and
they'll just be kind of like oh,okay, you lived in New York.
And I'm like, and I always askthe same question when, how long
did you live in New York?
And it's, it was a pit stop.

(06:05):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So I think that that wasunfortunate, but it was great.
I loved that time.
I loved, loved, loved that time.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
So another thing I didn't know about you.
I didn't know you went toboarding school.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, so tell me about that, absolutely Tell me
about that.
That was a byproduct of mymother.
She was a single mother, okay,and she had a long-term
boyfriend.
He was awesome, um, and he um,but like I mean you know me,
jeff like there was some point Igot in trouble.
I don't even remember what itwas.
I got in trouble for somethingstupid.
I didn't like, you know, I wentout when I was supposed to and

(06:37):
my mother I had the kind ofmother that would like scream on
you and then stop speaking toyou.
So sometimes you miss, miss thepoint.
You know what?
I mean, and I got in trouble forsomething and my mom like, just
let loose on me.
And when she was finished Ididn't say anything.
And she was like, do you haveanything to say?
And I said, don't you have togo to work?
Cause?
She was like and you can't dothis, and you're not going to do

(06:58):
that, and you're not.
And I was like I was looking ather like who's going to enforce
all this while you're at work?
Okay, like whatever.
And I also skipped a grade.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
When I moved from Long Island, I skipped fourth
grade and my birthday's inOctober, so I actually graduated
from high school when I was 16.
Oh, wow.
So at this point I'm like 10,11.
And I'm looking at her likewhatever lady and she was
literally like I got somethingfor your ass.
And she had some friends whosedaughters went to the same
school and so she sent me tovisit them and I remember like

(07:32):
the first time she sent me I waslike I was such a New Yorker.
I was just like whatever, likewhy would anybody be?
here, Right and with my poorattitude.
And then, I think, maybe thethird or fourth time she sent me
to visit, she was like, wouldyou ever want to go to a school
like that?
And I was like, oh my God, Iwould love to go there.

(07:55):
And she had already put in afinancial aid my application.
The only thing I had to do wasmy interview, and so she was
under the clock to make sure Iwas on board.
But I was already basically inthe school so I looked up.
I can remember the day that I,the day we arrived, I looked up
after they left and I was like,wait, how did I end?

Speaker 1 (08:11):
up here.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, Like I'm here and it was the best thing for me
, I mean, I wasn't you knowagain, my mom, my mom, don't get
me wrong, my mom was it waslike, let me put it this way, my
mom was fun at a party, um,okay, okay, and so there was no
square.
She wasn't, she wasn't no square, she wasn't really like, um, my
mother didn't cook, you know.
She didn't.
You know, I grew up like wegrew up across from the cellar,

(08:36):
so I grew up between the cellar,under the stairs and the couch,
so those were my cafeterias asa kid.
So I'm like eight, nine, 10years old, going into the cellar
, look for my mom and Nate, her,her, her boyfriend, and I'm,
like, you know, hungry.
I'm like, can I, can we havedinner, you know?
So I really I felt like I would.

(08:56):
Going back to what you weresaying about the neighborhood,
the thing I feel very fortunateabout was there were a lot of
people in our neighborhood wholooked out for me because I had
too much freedom.
I had way too much freedom.
And the adults even though,like you know, vanessa, by
example, you know she was notallowed to even touch the door
at the cellar I could just rollup in there anytime I wanted and

(09:17):
, you know, be like is my mom inhere, you know what's going on.
So a lot of the adults that werethere didn't necessarily agree
with it, but they all reallyliked my mom, like everybody
loved my mom.
She was amazing fun and she wasreally smart and she was kind in
her own way.
So a lot of people looked outfor me and you know to your
point about the neighborhood.
I just want to say this thatlike we had on 93rd Street or

(09:41):
92nd Street I think it was 93rd,94th, yeah, 93rd Street.
La Third Street or 92nd Street,I think it was 93rd, 94th, yeah
, 93rd Street, la Familia waslike the gang that controlled
that corner and they were alwaysvery respectful.
But those guys used to look outfor me because if I was out
later than I was supposed to be,then they would stay like a

(10:02):
half a block, quarter of a block, behind me and be like you need
to go home, like we walking youhome.
But they never had, they neverlet me be seen with them.
Right.
So I was.
I was always looked out for.
I mean, I cannot tell you, evenin my career, like and being in
really dangerous situationswhere I'm like there's no way I

(10:23):
should be the person who I amLike no, there's absolutely no
way, there's no way, I don'teven know that I should be.
I'll say it could be his hit ormiss as to whether or not I
should even be here.
So, yeah, it was.
Boarding school was the singlebiggest thing for me, and my son
goes to the same school now fora very different reason and he
loves it.
Yeah, and my picture's like inthe hallway, in the main room,

(10:44):
in the main building.
So when the first time we wentthere, I was like, when you miss
me, here I am.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
So tell me about your earliest tattoo.
As far as music goes, like youknow music, like what was your
earliest memories of music?
Or you know?

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Since we decided to have this conversation, I've
been thinking about this and Irealized that in a way, I was
always groomed to be where I was.
Not it didn't have to be inmusic, but you know, um again,
my mom, my mom was drop deadgorgeous.
She was like she knew everybody, like everything.
It was ridiculous.
She literally knew everybody.

(11:20):
I would go places and peoplewould just be like everybody.
I would go places and peoplewould just be like so.
My mom loved music.
And then we have we still haveher vinyl collection.
We have about six or 7,000pieces of vinyl.
Yeah, we have a huge vinylcollection.
A lot of it is like old jazzand soul.
You know a little bit of rock,mostly old jazz and soul, and

(11:43):
then we added our own stuff ontop of it.
But so she was.
My mom was at this like thiswas unheard of at the time.
She was a sales rep forLufthansa and she did.
They basically threw everybodyat her who did not want to deal
with the Germans.
So she used to take.
She had the diamond district,she had the garment district and

(12:04):
she had the garment districtand she had entertainment.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Because of the Jewish people.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Exactly so she used to.
When they would go to Germanyfor reparations she would handle
all those diamond district hassaid on.
When they would get ready to goto Germany she was the one
booking hundreds and hundreds ofpeople and negotiating rates
and upgrades and all that kindsof stuff.
And one of her clients two, twoof her clients, I think had an

(12:29):
impact on my life at the time Ididn't realize she had Bob Arum
who was the boxing promoter, soshe did the travel, a lot of the
travel for Rumble in the Junglegoing to.
Europe Right, and she was there.
And then she also did thenewport jazz festival.
So when they would come backfrom europe she would handle all

(12:49):
the, the flights, um upgradesetc.
Get all the, the um instrumentsshipped properly.
And she was like that she.
So she knew everybody, likeeverybody from all different
places.
My mother could walk intoburgdorf's and just like she
could walk on 125th street andbe like you would be like, oh
yeah, I know everybody.
She used to take me to jazzfestival.
They would give her likethousands and thousands of

(13:11):
dollars worth of tickets and shereally didn't have like, even
though she knew a lot of people,she didn't have a lot of
friends.
So she would, like, you know,take me with her.
And so I got to see all ofthese incredible jazz artists.
Um, and then also growing upacross the street from the
cellar, you know, I always say,like johnny kemp, friday night
just got paid.

(13:31):
He was always, he was so littlehe was always jumping around
the stage, you know.
And then my mom's boyfriend wasa nick um, he played for the
next 69 to 72.
So I was like I know the garden, the, the tunnels of the garden
, like the back of my hands,because we always we, you know,
we were like you know I'm like10, 11, 12, a teenager, because

(13:52):
they were together for like 12years so I was with.
I was with him all the time,like going to nick games sitting
courtside, um, you know,maurice lucas was one of his
best friends and maurice wouldlike drop us home, you know.
So it was, it was, but that wasnormalized, like I remember.
I mean this, I'm going to bekind in the way I put this
because there's more to it, butlike I remember walking in my

(14:13):
house and Chaka Khan sitting onthe couch Right, um so, and you
know, and Phyllis Hyman, phyllisHyman and my dad, I think my
stepfather had like a littleaffair kind of thing.
So that was interesting.
But I was always aroundcelebrity and we didn't have a
television in our living room Alot of the time.
Like we had one for a while andthen I think my mom got rid of

(14:35):
it.
We just music was just alwaysplaying in my house.
And then my grandparents mygrandfather is from Panama and
he played the timbales and allthat and he actually had a
bootleg radio station in theneighborhood when my mom was a
kid that he would just like playrecords and transmit it, like
on the far down on the FM or AM.

(14:56):
I think it was FM dial, so musicwas just always there.
And what got me the thing Ihate?
I hate that I don't playanything Like.
I really have always regrettedthat I don't play anything like.
I really have always regrettedthat I didn't take the time to
learn anything.
You know, I had to take pianolessons and I complained in my
way until my mother let me dropthem.
But um, that was in retrospect,when I was thinking about this

(15:16):
conversation, I was like that'sreally where I got the like yeah
, kind of the spark, but morethe comfort, right Cause, you
know, you and me, like I'm notstarstruck, I'm, you know, and
that was that was to mydetriment.
A lot of people I worked forfelt that I should be, you know,
like you need to be theirbiggest fan, and I remember
Andre used to be like you andMary J Blige need to be best

(15:37):
friends.
I was like we literally havenothing in common, like love her
, she's good with me, we workreally well together.
You know, we had a few.
It's not gonna happen.
But I always felt veryself-conscious about that
because, especially at uptown,because I was always around
people who hadn't had some ofthe opportunities and advantages
that I had and they thought,you know, they had their own

(15:57):
judgments about me being cornyor being whatever, and so I was
a little self-conscious about it.
But, um, that changed, you know, when I got to the face.
But but it was.
But I was never starstruck andall my bosses were starstruck,
like andre gerald's all the timestarstruck like all, like barry
like everybody's like.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
It was weird because the people who signed andre like
he'd be like yo, that's mary jblige, just like dude.
You signed her like why are youshipping?
Like?
Exactly?
You signed her.
You.
Why are you tripping?
Exactly?
You signed her Exactly.
Yeah that's how he was.
That's how he was.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yes exactly.
And I also am, you know, partof it is being a New Yorker,
Part of it is growing up in abit of a volatile household.
I'm real like close to the vest.
So you know, everybody'slooking for me to be rah-rah and
I'm like that is not going tohappen.
I'm not.
Yeah, I'm definitely like theduck, like I'm like-.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Under the water.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Underneath the water, but on the top I'm just like
Whatever.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
So you graduated from University of Virginia.
I did, and then what's yourfirst job out of college?

Speaker 2 (16:59):
I wanted to go to law school.
Actually, let me rephrase thatmy whole childhood I wanted to
be a judge.
I didn't even I didn't reallycare much about going to law
school.
I wanted to be a judge, likethat was my ambition.
And unfortunately I mean againgreat career, but unfortunately
I went to work for attorneys.
The first group of attorneys Iworked for were in the same
building as ICM.
So I remember, like opening theelevator door, opening in

(17:20):
Sigourney we were being andshe's like there aren't that
many people.
I look up at and I was just like.
So I worked in.
I worked in kind of like blueblood law firms as a paralegal.
I had the most boring job ever.
I was a oil case digester, so Iused to read depositions.
Now it's all AI.
I'm sure I used to readdepositions from oil cases, like

(17:40):
these huge no-transcript peopleat all.

(18:12):
I just didn't like them and, um, you know, and I was young,
remember so I graduated fromcollege so I'm like working
there.
Yeah, I'm like I'm working there.
I'm like I think I was just 21when I was working there and I
remember my boss pulled me inhis room in his office and he
was just like listen, and I wasstill living at home and he was
like listen, you need to toneyour personality down because it

(18:35):
you look like you're having toogood of a time at work and what
made it really offensive was Iworked.
I was no-transcript couple oflike New York charities.

(19:12):
I had like the Bed-StuyRestoration was also one of mine
and they trained me to doassociate level work so that
they could bill them atparalegal rates, to do associate
level work so that they couldbill them at paralegal rates.
So I'm like out there doing it,meeting with clients.
I'm keeping them 501 C like I'mlike doing my thing.
I'm 21.
I'm living at home, like I'mchilling and I'm going out every

(19:36):
night, right, and my um, mypartner didn't he he liked to be
home for he had a young child,was in his second marriage a
young child.
He liked to be home for dinner,so he used to come in at like
five o'clock in the morning sothat he could leave by six to be
home for dinner, so I used tomeet him at five o'clock in the

(19:56):
morning, and sometimes I wouldget there at four o'clock in the
morning because I would stillbe out the night before.
Very often, right, and I wasjust like I had it down.
I would go home like full-on,go to bed at like six o'clock,
seven o'clock, and then getdressed, go out, go to sticky
mics, go to um, go to save therobots, go to like whatever was
going on.
I was out in the streets, big Ium, and he was he.

(20:20):
He knew what I was doing.
But from the other partnersoptics, I was leaving at five'
optics I was leaving at 5o'clock, I was leaving at 6
o'clock and all the otherparalegals were leaving at
midnight.
I was just like I get here at 4.
What do you mean?
I was so offended.
I was living at home and I hadsaved money.
I was just like how about this?
How about I quit?
How about that?

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Because I didn't have any bills I didn't have.
I didn't have any.
I didn't have any.
I didn't have any cushion.
Yeah, I had a little bit ofcushion.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
I was still at home.
I knew I could work temp work.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
That was one time where everybody got out of
school and worked.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, what?
And yeah, so that was thatpushed me out of the interest in
that.
And then I remember we werefriends to Troy like we want to
be managers, cause we were outin the streets.

(21:20):
All three of us were out, wedidn't, we only went out
together.
We very rarely were apart fromeach other and so and we lived
across the street from eachother.
Jody lived in the same buildingas me.
Vanessa's mother and my mothergrew up together, so we were
like bonded and we went to Troylike we're going to manage her.
I think her name was Cheryl andshe had a beautiful voice.
She had like a Whitney Houstonlevel voice and he literally was

(21:42):
like y'all bitches will hate me.
Y'all can't manage Y'all never,Like you don't have the
temperament for it.
This is what you're going to do.
You're going to learn promotionbecause there are no women
doing it, which I did notunderstand the power of that at
the time.
There are no women doing it andlike people are going to take
the meeting with you guysbecause you know you all are

(22:04):
like my heart on my eyes andthen you're going to like, you
know, and I'm going to teach you.
So he literally, like, taught ushow to do.
He taught me I did retail, Idid the retail charts.
So he literally, like we wouldgo in his office on the weekends
and after work, you know, andhe gave us lists, he had us
making calls, he showed us howto do it and then he, he started

(22:26):
giving us business and then hestarted giving, like that was
how I met you.
You know he went to everybody,he knew you should hire them and
it was great.
I regret, if I have one regret,I regret that I was I was, you
know again really young and alittle insecure and I felt like
I didn't know what I was doing.
I felt very fraudulent becauseit was like nobody knew what
they were doing.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Nobody knew what they were doing Everybody was
winging it, everybody waswinging it.
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
So I thought that if I went to a label, I would like
I would, then I would understand, like then I would know and
it's kind of my personality, Ican like over-educate myself out
of things, because I'll be solike like well, I can't, this
can't possibly be all theinformation.
I mean.
I know that I'm relativelysmart, so I would be like, wait,
that's all that, that's it,that's everything.
That doesn't make sense.

(23:16):
There's got to be more.
So I would always like reachfor the next person who
hopefully knew more than I did,and then I would get to know the
situation and be like oh.
I already know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
So I do regret.
I mean, you guys are so farahead of the curve with We3
Marketing, correct?
Yeah, you guys are so far aheadof the curve, like years ahead
of the curve, like you were sofar in front of what ended up
happening you know everybody begetting these marketing and
promote indie promotioncompanies, indie marketing
companies.
And I remember like I Iremember like you guys like

(23:52):
really did a good job, like youwere like giving reports and
stuff and like it was it.
It was way advanced, especiallyfor that time.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
I had a Commodore 64.
You guys were so advanced.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
I mean, you guys, all three turned out great.
I was like man, I wonder whatwould have happened if they
stayed with that company.
If we had stuck with it, wewould have probably been a label
.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
We would were probably transitioned to being a
label.
We probably would havetransitioned, we would have
definitely done more with it,but we just and they, and it was
also hard because I I was theconnection between the two of
them and they didn't really likeeach other all the time.
So I felt a lot of pressurebecause they would they petty
stuff to me, really petty thingsto each other, and I would be

(24:42):
in the middle.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, what'd you do?
Why'd you do that?
And we'll be right back.

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And now back to our show.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
I met Andre Harrell.
This is really funny and,speaking of how do you get, how
do you end up places, I metAndre Harrell and Russell
Simmons on the beach in Martha'sVineyard.
We met them on South Beach andthe reason that we met them was
the three of us were on thebeach and again, you know us.
We were like everybody was likein this really concentrated
area and we had walked past allof them and we were off to the

(25:46):
side and we had a batteryoperated blender and we were
just getting lit and hanging onthe beach.
We had music and we werechilling and, um, I it was
either I don't remember whichone it was either jeff or brett,
jeff, right, jeff brett rightor jeff or jeff burroughs, came
over and they were like yo, like, can we get a drink?

(26:06):
and we were like no, and andrewas like andre and russell, if
you can imagine this, andre andrussell.
This was when wendy williamswas like everybody needs to go
to martha's vineyard and Andreand Russell were sitting on
South Beach in the vineyard.
They had, like, each had atowel.
There was no one else with them.
Russell looked miserable andAndre was fascinated because it

(26:28):
was like all of these Black kidsyoung Black college, you know
kids and everybody was partying.
He was just like absolutelyagain starstruck by it, right?
So Andre came over andintroduced himself to us and he
was like I've been watchingy'all, like y'all really got
something going on over here andwe were, we were just like he

(26:55):
was so down you know, hispersonality was so fun like we
were and we liked people likethat, like if you were going to
come and like actually engagewith us, we would.
If you were going to like flirtwith us or be like you know, can
I?
Be it.
We were like, no, leave me alone, I'm not interested.
So all we needed was each other.
That was the thing we likedbeing like hanging out together.
And I remember I'll neverforget this Andre was like he

(27:18):
introduced us to Russell and hewas like, do you know who
Russell Simmons is?
And we were like no.
And he was just like, oh okay,well, do you know Def Jam?
And we were like no.
And Andre started laughing andRussell was getting heated
because he was.
You know, this was like LL CoolJ round-the-wave girl time.

(27:40):
He's on fire and we're like youknow it's like you know, these
bougie bitches that are likeimpressed, don't know, I don't
know, I'm not impressed, don'tcare.
So.
So then andre told us, you knowhe was like al, these shores,
mine, all that, and you know alhad already like been hot at
that point, and so that was howI met him and he gave me a
really wonderful gift.
Andre used to tell me again,because he's, like you know, a

(28:03):
fan type of person Andre used totell me you were groomed for
greatness.
He's the only person in my lifewho said that.
He used to tell me all the timehe would be like yo, you know,
you groomed for greatness.
Like you like, you need to likereally tap into that.
And with everything that I hadhad, you know, had all the

(28:23):
opportunities that I had, I was,like you know, I had been a
kind of lonely kid.
I was a sad kid.
I was.
You know, if you're growing upin a, in a situation that's
volatile and violent, there'slots of things going on I always
I grew up feeling like if Istay really small in the center
of the storm, maybe I won't getswept away, right.
So I was not.

(28:44):
I didn't have the type ofpersonality I grew into at that
time.
I really was like I wasn'tnecessarily a people pleaser,
but I knew how to, how to takeup smaller space and push
somebody else forward, right.
So you know, I would be like doyou know, do you know my friend
Vanessa?
Like I was always, I was neverlike me, me, me.
I was always like do you knowVanessa?
Do you know Jody?
Do you know this person?
Do you know that person?

(29:04):
And yeah, and that was.
That was a big survival skillfor me as a kid.
So to have somebody see throughthat and be like hey, you
groomed for greatness, I carry.
I carry that with me to thisday that you know, every once in
a while I'll be like yeah, itreminds you, when I went to work
for him, he didn't pay meanything Like he did not pay
women, he did not, we won't.
That's a whole different story,um, but yeah, we so.

(29:28):
So that was kind of like all ofthose things came together.
And then I remember the otherdefining moment was we were out
one night and I think it was, Ithink it was Troy, this was like
I this is all kind of out ofsequence, but I think it was
Troy it used to trip me out thatat like two o'clock in the
morning I would be like, okay,y'all, I gotta go to work in the
morning, like I'll alwayswearing, like you know, sweats,

(29:49):
damn near, and they made likefour times the money I made.
So I was like I need tounderstand what you do, because
I'm pressed, at two o'clock inthe morning that I got to go to

(30:09):
work and you're like okay, seeyou later, you're going to stay.
Like you get to work at 10, 11and you're out all night and you
have an expense account and youhave a credit card and we are
the same age and we're all likeyou're my peer.
I was just like I need moreinformation, I've clearly made
some different choices and soall of that.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
So after week three, what was your?
You went.
You got your first label jobafter week three yeah, andre
hired me away from week three to.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
It was a combination of things, well, so I was doing
chart manipulation.
I was very good at it.
I was very good at it.
Wait, can I would put thebarcode for what you hired me
for on the back of the Hershey.
And at this time a lot of theretailers were really not

(31:09):
checking for SoundScan becauseit was such a cash business that
they weren't really interestedin reporting all the income they
got, the planes and stuff.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
They got all the money off the books, you know
yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
That's right.
I had boxes of cleans in myhouse for days and for years
later I would still be like damn, I still had a box of cleans,
Like what am I going to do withthat?
And so what I would do?
When SoundScan came into play,most of the retailers still had
two registers right.
And I would do when.
When sound scan came into play,most of the retailers still had
two registers Right and I woulddo buy, I would do buy one, buy
one and get a gift.

(31:43):
So I've targeted all this, allthe stores, the retailers that
really supported me.
Um, and then I knew you knowwe're down for it, and so you'd
buy.
You know it was like, okay, sosay, I sent them like 200
hershey bars.
It would be gift with purchase,so they would scan the hershey

(32:03):
bar, we'd get credit for it, andthen and not scan the record,
and then I would send clean.
So we were charting records.
Like long after, like peoplewere like what are you doing?
Like how is this possible?
Because nobody had figured outhow to still kind of play with
it.
So I was doing that and like we, you know we did retail, radio

(32:26):
and video, and retail was goingaway and I wasn't and I was.
I did retail.
We also kind of had a habit.
We had a unofficial policy thatwe would sit in a meeting.
If we sat in a meeting you weredifferent, but not everybody
was like this.
If we sat in a meeting and wesaw that someone gravitated
towards one of us more than theother, you would never see the

(32:48):
other two again.
It didn't matter if that waswhat you did.
So if I got hired to do retailbut in the meeting they really
liked Vanessa, Vanessa would,would be their client.
She would handle them as aclient.
She'd be the person, yeah,exactly like she would be the
face.
She would schmooze them, shewould do whatever and I would do
the work.
Or if I came in and they werechecking, like they wanted to

(33:09):
talk to me more.
So we always kind of cateredthat and we did the same thing
with like we people thought wewere an art.
We thought people thought wewere artists.
Like we got that all the timethey're like oh, it's a new girl
group.
We're like no, because we, whatwe used to do was just like we
were so charming and we were solike it was just fun for us.
Like we, we would just be like,hey, so.

(33:30):
And so like hank caldwell lovedvanessa and in a very like you
know, yeah respectful respectfulway, but he loved vanessa I was
like you got it, I'll work thisdeep cover soundtrack.
I'll do all the thing exactlyso we, we really um maximized
that and we did the same thingwith like I, we had our I don't

(33:51):
know if you remember we had aheadshot that we sent out.
And we sent it out for a reasonbecause everybody was like,
because we were chatty, so theywere like what's she look like?
Like and I'm talking.
I used to always say like I'mtalking to, like some guy that
works in a record store Whosegirlfriend broke up with him and
I'm like his therapist once aweek, right.

(34:11):
So they were like what do youguys look like?
So we started sending, we sentout the pictures and we didn't
put our names on the picture, wejust put we three, we three
marketing.
So I would get on the phone witha retailer, you know who was
reporting for me, who was liketaking care of hand on business,
and they'd be like which oneare you and I'd be like which
one you think I am, and whoeverthey thought I was.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
I was like you guessed it.
You guessed it like it was jody.
On the number you, yeah, yeah,that's funny, so so.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
so when you get to uptown you're doing retail, no,
Andre was like Andre was likeyou should be a publicist.
I went to uptown publicist andI have said this to every
publicist I respect I was theworst at it, cause I first of
all I didn't know what I wasdoing at all, like I just kind

(35:00):
of took the same skills andtransferred it over and it was
okay, it was good.
You know it was the same muscle.
But I didn't have a list and Iremember andre got kelly haley
was head of like she washandling all the uptown stuff
when I went there and she was anmca and he made her give me her
list and she was pissed and soI I got you know, I just started

(35:21):
calling and it was the samekind of conversations.
I just didn't know.
You know I wasn't as familiarso and I didn't.
I actually didn't like being apublicist that much.
I didn't like the and it waskind of similar to retail.
I didn't like the repetitivenature of it.
Like um, in 2025, sinceeverybody has 80 ADD or ADHD.

(35:41):
I'm going to claim that that'swhat my thing is, because I love
give me a hundred things to doat once and I'm I'm on fire.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
I got it all Give me like do every day the same thing
and I'm just like so wait, Iinterviewed um, so I interviewed
Emil Wilberkin and he mentionedyou because he told me you sent
him 411 early and he wasrunning around blasting to
everybody like this is the mostincredible thing ever.
And he said I forget how hesaid it, but he said somehow he

(36:13):
ended up doing the Maryinterview because something fell
out.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
John Morgan couldn't do it.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, he ended up doing it and he and mary became
friends, which was amazing,because even probably now, but
back then mary hated everybodyso how was it?
How was it working with herback then?
You know we're gonna start.
You know this fame came to herso fast because that record hit
real love came out and then itwas just like a rocket ship well

(36:43):
, I would add, to remember reallove was from I'm sorry not real
love.
You remind me it was you remindme it was you remind me was from
the strictly businesssoundtrack.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yes, and so we didn't put the video out.
So Mary had moved out of, outof slow bone Like she had.
She was like out of Yonkers,she was living her life.
She was doing radio shows andeverybody, her voice was so big
and so mature, everybody thoughtshe was older, right, um, they
just didn't.
Mary wasn't who they thought.
Kind of thought she was, so tospeak.

(37:14):
So, mary, I'll never forgetthis, it was really, it was.
I have a mixed feeling.
I have many mixed feelingsabout stardom and fandom and
it's hard, it's really hard onpeople.
And so Mary had the successbefore anyone recognized her and
we put that video out andliterally I remember being in

(37:37):
the office I don't know if shetold me or if it was like
someone else in the office toldme, but she got mobbed in the
grocery store and had and youknow Mary was very, you know
Mary had a really rough life andshe was, she was, she was very
uncomfortable, like, like Mary.
You could feel there was just atension about her.
You could feel her discomfort.

(37:57):
She was always ready to fight,like Mary's the only artist that
I have literally gotten into ascreaming match with.
Like I don't even remember whatit was about.
But, like Mary was just, shewas just there, was so much
there and she really had likethe, the way that the
opportunities came for her, she,she wasn't ready for it by any
stretch and she came for her.

(38:22):
She, she wasn't ready for it byany stretch and she wasn't like
she didn't, she had no point ofreference, like she just was
like girl from the projects.
It wasn't like oh she's doingtalent shows and she came up and
she like did one recording ofsweet thing that you know went
through people's hands, ended upin andre's hands and he signed
her.
So it was really hard.
It was really hard to begin.
I mean, they were like, and shewas, she was with um, she was

(38:43):
dating kc at the time, whichjosey was like it was a whole,
they were a traffic wreck butjodeci.
But so she was dating kc and inmy opinion, looking back on it
as a grown-ass woman, there wasa lot of like manipulation and
jealousy there and there wasdefinitely like abuse and and I
was like it was it was hard towatch because Mary should marry,

(39:05):
if I don't know how to put this.
Like Mary should not have beenable to sustain.
Like Mary.
Mary, first of all, could havebeen bigger, right, but
everywhere we went, everybodysaw that she was in pain and
they wanted to help her and Ithink in a weird way that was
what helped because you know,she was one of the first artists

(39:29):
to just kind of like not showup for rehearsal at Saturday
Night Live during the worstsnowstorm.
It was that bit really bad.
I think it was 1993, 4,something like that, that big
like I think it was 1903 four,something like that that big
blizzard she was supposed to beat, she's supposed to be at,
saturday night live and she andcasey and uh yeah, she and casey
were like holed up in the houseand they sent the car and she

(39:52):
literally opened the door, sawit lock the door and close the
door and never came back out.
So we had, like you know andthis was when sarah net live
didn't look black artists right,I'll never forget chris rock
was like audrey was there andchris walk was like yo, nobody
does this, like you need to getyour girl.
And so we couldn't I don't wantto say control, but we couldn't

(40:14):
usher her.
You know, mary would like showup, like I can remember, like
helping her change her underwearat BET, and I was just like
this is what my life is, youknow.
Um.
So it was really hard and Igive it to her because she did.
She worked on herself so hardto get not to be what anybody

(40:35):
else wanted her to be, but tofind peace right To find like,
because the Mary that we see nowwho, who has a sense of self,
you know, I think she's stillpunching her face if necessary,
but she's.
She worked really hard to get tothat place of peace and I
remember heavy said something tome when I first started working
with him that I never forgotand I always said it to other

(40:55):
artists.
He him that I never forgot andI always said it to other
artists.
He was like you know, becausehe lived at home and when Heavy
was like, he was like at his.
Yeah, he was living at home.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
He had renovated the basement.
It was like the trick-outbasement I'd ever seen Right.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
And I remember being like like why do you live at
home?
And he said at least every timeI walk out my door I gotta be
heavy bum, diddly, diddly D,whether I want to be or not, I
can never just be Dwight.
So this is the only place in mylife where I can be Dwight.

(41:30):
And that resonated all.
Every artist I've worked withI've I've said some version of
that of like don't forget whoyou are and where the safe
spaces are, where you can be.
You know, like truly, who youare and not caught up.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
The thing is, a lot of artists don't figure this out
too much later is, like yousaid, when you walk out the
house, you're whoever artist.
Right, you have a successfulartist whoever you are.
You have a successful lifewhoever you are.
And so the people who areapproaching you, that's the only
time in their life they'regoing to be that close to you
and actually meet you and maybetake a picture or whatever, and
so you having a bad day to themit's like, yeah, but this is the

(42:11):
only time I'm going to meet you.
You have to be nice to me and Ibought your record or I bought
your movie ticket or whatevernice to me and I bought your
record, or I bought your movieticket or whatever.
It's a very layered thing that Idon't think a lot of people
take really do a deep thought to.
It's like when Hev walks outhis door he's like oh, that's
Heavy D.
Oh, that's Heavy D.
He might just be going to get aturkey sandwich, but somebody

(42:34):
else in that store is like I sawHeavy D, whereas he's just
Dwight trying to get a sandwichand you see that people struggle
with that so much.
It's a very lonely thing.
The two artists I saw that weregreat at it, not surprisingly,
were Will Smith.
He was great at kind of just.
I saw it.

(42:55):
I went to Philly with him onetime and I saw we were in a van
Philly with him one time and Isaw we were in a van like a van
with me, him and Charlie MackWill's being like Will, Philly,
Will Fuck that shit.
I hate this shit.
That door would open and click.
It would just turn it on.
He'd be the fresh fresh for thewhole time he was out.

(43:18):
He'd get back in that van andhe'd be like man.
It's just bullshit.
Another person who couldn'tavoid it was Shaq, because he
was so big he would not noticehim, Him walking somewhere.
He would click and he would beShaq.
He'd take a picture and buysomebody something.
We'd go to the store, thesupermarket, He'd buy the whole

(43:38):
line of groceries.
But it's a hard existence.
It's a very hard existence.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, and it's a talent to be able to do that and
there aren't that many.
Usher was really good at thatand I had a glimpse of it, a
really small glimpse of it,because when I worked with Chris
Chris used to you know, it waslike it was Chris Brown, he was
huge, right, and Chris used tothank me on at award shows and

(44:07):
stuff.
So at some point I hit theradar of his fans, of his like
real, like you know, devout fans, and I remember I was going to
meet him at the today show andI'm just like walking along it's
like, you know, six o'clock inthe morning, five o'clock in the
morning, stupid and I hearsomebody say, yo, that's lisa,
she works with chris, follow her.

(44:28):
I was like, oh hell, no.
And suddenly I have like, andI'm just like trying to act like
I don't hear them and I'm justwalking and you know, and
suddenly I have like I'm likethe pied piper with all these
kids.
And the other one that happenedwas I was with usher.
I'll never forget this.
I was with usher.
We did an in-store brooklyn andit was like he was like dondada

(44:49):
.
We used to like, we took thelimo.
You know how you do like theregisters were near the projects
.
so you took the limo throughpast the projects, past the high
school, all that, and the kidsfigured out, like you know, we
rolled down the window, he'swaving, whatever.
And these kids started chasingthe car.
But they're on foot Right.
So we are, we're in the limo.

(45:09):
I will never forget this.
We're in the limo and we pull upand it was I don't remember
what record store it was, butthey had like a gate and you
would go in, so they had thestorefront and then they had
like the back, the you know backdoor, whatever was was a chain
link fence was there and so westopped the car in front of the
chain link fence and there arelike not exactly like 200

(45:29):
teenagers running towards us atfull speed and we had to like
open the door and get throughthe gate to get him inside.
And I just remember being in thecar and we were like, okay, you
ready, you got to go, causethey're coming, they're coming,
they're coming and opening thedoor, and I just remember being
in the car screaming, run, run,and he got through the gate,

(45:54):
they slammed the gate and it waslike a cartoon, it was just
like 200, like it was not 200,200, but it was like maybe 20
kids that were like like upagainst the gate, like boom,
boom, boom, boom, hitting thegate, and then they turned to
see who else was in the limo andI just like slipped out and
stood in the crowd like lookinglike who's that?
Oh it's usher, oh that's dope,like because you know I could do

(46:17):
that, but that's fandom stuff.
That's why, when everybody talksabout the political thing and
trump, I'm like these are fansif you know what fandom looks
like.
These are fandom is fanaticism,and yeah, and not everybody can
handle it yeah, he checked outhe, he was, he just couldn't.
Yeah, he checked out.

(46:38):
Um, I had a lot of artists Iworked with that had anxiety,
you know, and artists artistslike I would literally start
every conversation when I gotwas getting to know an artist.
I would be like, okay, so tellme about your sleep, like you
don't sleep right, and theywould just be like, oh shit,
how'd you know that?
I'm like, because no artistsleeps like you.
Guys are just like up andthinking about it, and I always

(47:00):
felt like music was the onemedium where you're really
giving of yourself, right, likeif you're an actor, you can have
a character, you can develop acraft, but if you're an artist,
if you're a recording artist,you're presenting your
perspective, your point of view,whether you're a songwriter or
not you're presenting yourselfand that's hard.
It's hard on people.
So I always felt like I wouldnever, ever, ever want that.

(47:23):
You know we have a son, butlike I would never want that for
my child.
I felt that way when I was like23.
I was like I would never wantthis for my son.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
So you work in an uptown with the great Andre
Harrell.
Rest in peace.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Andre Harrell.
We did that, we did Uptown MTV.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Unplugged we unplugged.
You had Mary, you had Heavy,you had Father MC, you had
Jodeci, you had Guy.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Well, guy, no, I didn't have Guy.
Guy was right before me and Ithink Guy was.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Guy at that point was on MTV, so I knew them?

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah, I knew them, but I wasn't.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
Yeah, I didn't work them and I had what was his name
I think he passed away.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Um, I think he's on your chest a little song.
I love him.
He was very, he was fine.
So how long were you at?
How long were you at Uptown?

Speaker 2 (48:10):
I was literally at Uptown for two years to the day.
I had to fight for my uh, I hadto fight MCA, for my vacation
pay.
So I was there for two years tothe day and I was obsessed with
, with, with.
So when I was working for Andre, it was Bobby Brown and Whitney
Houston got married and wethrew, like Andre, you know,
andre was like, all right, let'smake the most of this.

(48:30):
So we threw a barbecue the dayafter the wedding and every, but
when I tell you, everybody came.
But like we didn't have acaterer, I'm like picking up
sharper.
I remember my foot, like we'relike, it's like, it's like

(48:50):
everything is all diy.
And and I remember, um, la andpebbles were there and you know,
pebbles was like for me,pebbles and invoke were the
first artists that I saw thatlooked like me and my friends
that were like it was like thisrespectability that I was like
like you know.
So we were all down with them.
And so they came to to Andre'shouse for the cookout and it was
like they were like, causeBobby and Whitney didn't come?

(49:11):
I don't think, I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure they
didn't come.
But everybody was like, likeyou know, la and Perry were
holding court and I rememberthat just it just made an impact
on me.
And then I started like lookingat LaFace and you know and that.
And then I became completelyobsessed with like going to work
at LaFace and I used to telleverybody Deidre Tate was like.

(49:32):
I used to hang out with Deidrea lot and Deidre was really
helpful.
At the time Eddie F had a dealwith with LA and Eddie was like
you need to meet her, you needto talk to her.
I was like anybody who kind ofknew me well knew that I was
like obsessed with LaFace andbeing a publicist at LaFace.
And I remember DuvetteSingletary was the head of

(49:55):
everything there at the time andshe was mean.
I mean there's no other way toput it, you know, rest in peace,
but she was.
She was legitimately.
She was so mean to me thatyears later she got in touch
with me and took me out for acoffee and apologized for what
she did to me.

(50:15):
She tortured me Like I havenever had an experience like
that.
That woman tortured me like Ihave never had an experience
like that.
That woman tortured me and shepoisoned my relationships with
artists so like tony braxtonhated me for no good reason
other than, yeah, divette kindof told her to and I remember,
like I have tony braxton plaquesand for years my tony at the

(50:37):
front of the.
They were at the front of thecar so like if you came to my
house, if you were in my car,you'd be like, oh shit, you move
those because, like you mighthit them, and I was like wow, so
so.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
So this then did you move to.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
It was you had to move to atlanta at this point
yeah, I moved to atlanta.
Um, I left.
Andre was pissed at me.
I found out years later I wastalking to uh ron gillard.
He was like he was mad at youfor a very long time because he
felt like you left he was.
You did the equivalent of likeleaving your first boyfriend for
like the high schoolquarterback.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
The hot dude, right.
But what resonated for me atLaFace was everybody there I
mean and like when I sayeverybody, I mean pretty much
the whole staff was collegeeducated.
We had a lot of Spelman girlsthere, we had a couple more
house guys, but mostly it waslike.
You know, andre liked havingwomen and he liked his company
worked best, honestly, whenwomen were working.

(51:31):
It just he was.
He was a very you know all ofthe things that people hear
aside, he was a very solidleader of women, right, because
he likes being around us.
So you know, and he would andyou know, don't I say this to
people telling them you're wrong, like you would hit on you, but
you would just like.
I remember I got into anargument because he was like you

(51:55):
know, I'm mad, I didn't shootmy shot I was like you didn't
have a shot and he was like hewas so offended.
he was like yes, I did't have ashot and he was like he was so
offended.
He was like yes, I did.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
It was never going to happen.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
No, you never.
It was never going to happen.
And I think, coming from fromfrom, from from uptown, you know
where it was like puff and puffwas doing, puff does.
And I mean, it was likemisogyny in uptown.

(52:25):
Yeah, yes, I have been groped.
I had been.
I remember, um, uh, tim doglicked my face one day.
I, I I can remember this day.
I can still smell hisdisgusting breath.
I, I saw him.
I was with steve lucas uh, jodyc's manager and I walked up to
the building and tim was outsideand I was like, oh hey, and he
came in to hug me and we didn'tdo that.
So I was kind of like, oh,that's what we're doing, okay,

(52:47):
and as I got close, he looked mefrom here to here and it was so
humiliating and so disgustingand Andre was like.
You know, andre kind of saidsome stuff to him, but it didn't
make a difference and there wasso much of that.
I had somebody like walk up tome and be like, yeah, tati's,
look right today and fondle them, you know.
So, leaving there, when I leftuptown, I was like, especially

(53:09):
because I grew up in the city, Igot down to Atlanta.
I had no chill, none at all.
So they used to um, um, la.
I remember my first day workingthere.
La came to my office and hestarted coming around to the
side of my desk to give me a hugI was going to be.
When he got to a certain pointI would be trapped in the corner
.
I was like nigga, what are youdoing?

Speaker 1 (53:32):
He was like I was going to hug you.
I was like no.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
I don't do all that, I'm good.
You need to go back to your sideof the desk and he was like on
one hand, he loved that about me, Right, Because I was like, nah
, like you know, he's fromCincinnati, he lived in LA, Like
he's you know, and I'm like NewYorker.
I was like, no, I'm good, Likewhy are we hugging?

(53:54):
No, I'm good.
And then they would do like theface was like a cult in the
best possible sense.
They did everything together.
We did everything.
We hung out with artists and wewere in Atlanta at a time when
it wasn't like stardom.
So you know TLC, they shoppedat the Gap, Like if you go back
and watch the Creep videos,they're wearing Gap clothes.

(54:14):
You know, we went bowling, wewent.
We went paintball.
Well, I went paintballing oncewe went.
We went paintball.
I went paintballing once.
I did not like the bruises, soI gave up on that quickly.
Um, we used to rent houseboatstogether.
We used to go jet skiing likewe like hung out.
But before I got to that pointthey would be like, hey, so
we're gonna all.
It would be like friday andthey're like all right, so we're

(54:34):
all gonna like hang out, we'regoing, we're all going to
so-and-so's house, usuallycharlotte's.
Do you want to come?

Speaker 1 (54:39):
And I was like yeah, right, no, I've seen y'all.
I've seen y'all all week.
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
I was like y'all I have, I said, and I remember I
can be Charlotte's to this daygives me shit about this,
because I was like I didn't comedown here to make friends.
I have friends all day.

(55:10):
Now we're gonna hang out and bythe time I left so as a face at
this point, it's who's usher?
Tony tlc.
Usher hadn't come out yet.
I met usher when I was atuptown at the jodeci cry for you
video shoot in the dumont dunesof arizona whatever california,
yeah, so usher hadn't come outyet.
He was still recording when Igot there first album.
Tony's first album was out, soI worked, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Tony was the biggest at that point and the bodyguard
and who else was popping off atthat time on the face, really
the two biggest ones at thattime on the face, all those were
really the two biggest ones.
Just kind of to be at that time.
Really, it was that.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Yeah, at that time and TLC was huge.
No, no, no.
They came out Like I got therein May of 1994.
I think it was, yeah, 1994.
And they, they came out in 1993.
So we were working it, but ithadn't, it hadn't quite broken,

(56:06):
we hadn't shot the video.
I was when I was there, we shotthe video while I was there.
So, um, but you know, I I Ialways say this when I talk to
people who are, I'm gonna say,new to the business, but I don't
really mean that like in thelast you know 20 years, I always
say, like what we had was wehad these artists that funded
all of the other artists, right,so tlc had come off of they

(56:29):
were big, but they weren't takenseriously.
Like I can remember trying topitch crazy, sexy, cool and and
I I would have to like I waslike no, no, no, no, you don't
understand, this is an importantrecord.
Like just put all that ooh onthe.
TLC tip thing you're thinkingabout.
Put that aside.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
This is big and people were like not you know
they were like, oh, it's just ajoke, with the condom on her eye
and the big hats.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Exactly, exactly, and it was like by that time Cross
Colors had worn out its welcome,you know.
So everybody was looking at itlike they were cartoonish.
So it was a little bit of a nota struggle, but it was a little
bit of convincing with press atthat time.
And then once they broke, thenyou know, it was like that, was
it?
Then OutKast broke, you hadTony Rich and the exciting thing

(57:20):
for us and we had Goody Mob,like one of the exciting things
about working at With Face isthat every artist that I worked
there their second album wasbigger than their first and I
don't know of any other placewhere that happened.
Like you know, whether it wasTony or Outkast or Usher, even

(57:40):
you know tlc, like everybody waslike, whatever they built,
whatever they had, they thentripled, quadrupled or more, um,
so we were really in a greatposition in terms of like, not
just moving culture, but like wewere, I was.
I was talking to my son theother day and he was asking me
about, like, what it was likeback down.
I was like, what was it likeback in the day, back in your
day?

(58:00):
I'm like every day is my day,um, but I, you know, we were
laughing.
He was asking me about likewhat it was like back down.
I was like, what was it likeback in the day, back in your
day?
I'm like every day is my day,but I, you know, we were
laughing.
He was laughing because I waslike, oh, we were big, like we
would get police escorts.
Like if we were going to theHawks games, all of our security
were off-duty cops, so we wouldget like police escort to the
games.
You know you'd roll up at thegate.

(58:21):
They would see you and let youpark.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Yeah, there was nothing else happening back then
.
It was just LaFace, prettysmall southern city compared to
now, so like you would have gone, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
When it came to campus.
It was LaFace SoSoDeaf, and itwas really not even SoSoDeaf, it
was really LaFace, SoSoDeaf andit was really not even SoSoDeaf
, it was really LaFace, jermaineand Dallas and that was yeah,
yeah, but it was really evenjust the people like, because
they were, you know, dallas andJermaine were people who had
grown.
So yeah, and we were like youknow, we were all like family,

(59:00):
like we used to go to Dallas'moms for dinner on sundays and
it was.
It was a great like, especiallycoming being that age and like,
if you kind of take the fate Imean take uptown out of it a
little bit, coming being thatage and coming out of college,
it was very collegial.
It was very collegial.
It was like nobody had kids,nobody was married, nobody.
Everybody had like a little bitof money.
I remember I literallyquadrupled my salary and it

(59:22):
lasted, it was chilling.
Yeah, that's how little I waschilling.
I was chilling.
I bought my first house.
I bought my mother a condo.
That was when my mother finallybelieved that I had a career,
Because she used to be like shegot stuck in the elevator with
Jodeci and their whole crew.
They rolled so deep.
And later, with jodeci andtheir whole crew, they rolled so
deep.
And I remember she was comingto see me at work and she got in

(59:42):
the elevator.
She, they buzzed her, you know.
They told me she was coming upand I went to the elevator to
meet her and the door opened andmy mother's style icon was
jackie on right.
So she was like big glasses.
She always was done, she wasalways white and the elevator
doors open and she had her purse.
She looked like I I will beatthese mongrels down.
And so the elevator door opensand they're all like Lisa and

(01:00:06):
she's like you know them, theyknow you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
What are you?

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
doing?
Why aren't you going to lawschool?
Exactly, why aren't you goingto law school?
So, when I was able to buy hera place.
My thing was I still don'tthink to her past from days.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
My mother actually knew what I did, but she just
supported.
She didn't care really, as longas you know I was okay, my
father, I remember the Low EndTheory album, you know, when
Platinum was doing great andQ-Tip told me he's like yo, ron
Carter.
Here's Ron Carter's number.
Call him because I want to sendhim a plaque for the album.

(01:00:44):
So I called him.
So I called him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Oh, he and my mom were really good friends.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
I was like, yeah, this is Jeffrey Sledge from
Conjured Records.
You know, q-tip told me to callyou about a plaque.
He said, oh, okay, and then westarted kind of talking a little
bit.
A little bit.
My father was a huge jazz fan.
I was like, oh, you know, myfather's a big jazz fan, he
loves your music.
And he warmed up a little bit.
We talked like 15, 20.
It wasn't like a longconversation we talked, but I'll
never forget I called my father.
I was like Dad, guess who Italked to today?

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
It's legitimate.
Is that my website?
I hope that's not my internet.
I was watching it justdeteriorate.
Oh, that's not me.
I don't know what happened.
There you are.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Hold on, I can't do.
Oh, come on, I'm going to countthere you go there, you are
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
I don't know what happened, but anyway, so yeah
that was legitimate.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah, my father was like oh, that's Nick Ron Carter,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
But anyway, wait was my family.
Sister's ex-husband is hawaiian, so she moved to hawaii and my
grandmother she like literallyno shade.
She was my grandmother'sfavorite granddaughter,
great-grandchild.
So then my grandmother moved tohawaii to be close to her and
then my mom moved to hawaii whenshe retired so she could be
nearby to help with mygrandmother and I was.
I went on vacation and I hadbecome friendly in a very

(01:01:58):
surface way with tony benn, dida Tony Tony like little MTV
Awards.
They did a little Tony Tonything and I was sick.
I was working and I was reallysick and I was on the stage
bringing I brought Tony to theTony Preston to the stage and
Tony Bennett.
I saw that I was like sufferingbasically.

(01:02:20):
And he was just like I sneezedor something.
And he was just like wait aminute, I've got a tissue here.
Let me check my pockets.
Right.
And they're coming down fromcommercial and they're like tell
him you're fine, tell himyou're fine, I'm like I'm fine,
I'm fine.
No, it's okay, mr Bennett, yougot to go out on, fine.
And he took the time to likepull out, pull out some tissues

(01:02:40):
and gave to me and then I wouldsee him at like Clive's party
and he would remember me.
And then I eventually and Ibecame friends with somebody at
Columbia who had worked in hismanagement.
So I would get tickets and, likeyou know, I would go to his
shows and like but I would justgo by myself because nobody else
would go with me at the timeand I I was in Hawaii and he had

(01:03:02):
a show and I reached out to seeif we could get tickets.
And this is like a ball, it'slike at the Hilton ballroom,
it's not like a real venue.
So we're like in the VIP area.
He comes over, he meets myentire family, he gushes over my
grandmother is just absolutelylovely.
And then the next day I took mymom and my niece were swimming

(01:03:22):
with the dolphins and he wasthere with his much younger
girlfriend who I think they weretogether until he passed, and
he's got like this is you know,we've not, this is pre video
phone.
So he's got like the bigcamcorder and he's recording her
with the dolphins and he's likeLisa, you know.
So Tony Bennett was mine for myfamily wow wow, like.

(01:03:45):
Okay, tony Bennett like knowsyou and takes care of you so
wait, real quick, side TonyBennett.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
So he's like Columbia .
So there was a diner on 6thAvenue and 1556th Street.
I ran into him one day in thereand, like I was a fan, I was
like, oh shit, tony Bennett.
And in there, and I was a fan,I was like, oh, it's Tony
Bennett.
And he talked.
And then a few weeks later Isaw him again randomly on the
Upper West Side, on Columbus andthe 70s.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
And he remembered you .

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
He remembered me and then every once in a very blue
moon, I'd see him in the Sonybuilding because I worked in the
Sony building, and he would belike hey Walked in the Sony
building and he would be likehey, hey, kid how you doing.
I'm like look at Tony, he wasdope, he was dope.
That was just part one of ourconversation with Lisa Cambridge
Mitchell.
Stay tuned next week for parttwo.
You can catch Mixed andMastered on Apple Podcasts,

(01:04:32):
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend.