O'Neal McKnight

This week on Mixed and Mastered, O’Neal McKnight pulls back the curtain on a career that spans styling, music, film, and cultural impact. From his roots in South Carolina to interning at Motown and working alongside his late cousin Andre Harrell, O’Neal shares how he went from dressing stars like Usher, Jessica Alba, and Jermaine Dupri to becoming one himself. He breaks down the creation of Kosher Soul, producing TV specials with legends like Stan Lathan and Cedric The Entertainer, and the rise of Pass the Mic. Plus, why ownership, mentorship, and financial literacy matter more than ever in the business. This one’s packed with hustle, humor, and hard-earned wisdom.

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Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on Mixed and Mastered, I'm talking with
O'Neal McKnight, stylist,manager and film producer.
Among his clients as a wardrobestylist are Usher, jessica Alba
, p Diddy and Jermaine Dupri.
Currently he produces Pass theMic with DJ Cassidy and is
producing films with Alan Hughes.
O'neal has touched culture fromevery angle.

(00:23):
This is Mixed and Mastered withO'Neal McKnight.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,the podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in

(00:43):
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
Mixed and Mastered podcast withmy man, my country cousin man,

(01:04):
my hog mors eating cousinNeckbone and grits.
O'neal McKnight, how you doingman?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Man, I'm good man.
I wish I was properly lit likeyou, because you glowing over
there, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm over here looking like-.
I put some Vaseline on toobefore we started.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'm over here looking like Akon and Boo, third cousin
.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
We'll figure it out, though We'll figure it out,
though We'll figure it out, man.
So let's jump right into it,man, we're going to start at the
beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Born and raised in South Carolina, yep, a small
town called Lynchburg, southCarolina, to be exact.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Tell me about it.
Tell me about growing up there.
Tell me about the familybackground.
Tell me about all of that.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Wow, man.
I mean, being born in Lynchburg, south Carolina was just kind
of self-explanatory.
Very rule, very humblebeginnings.
My grandfather was asharecropper.
His father was a sharecropper.
We come from a long line ofsharecroppers tobacco, cotton,
cucumbers.
If you could plant and it couldgrow.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Okay, okay, we did Okay.
And how many, how many siblingsyou got?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
I have, uh, one older brother, uh, his name is Derek,
He'll be 55 this year.
And, uh, I have an olderbrother who got killed in oh
seven on a motorcycle Sorry tohear that.
Yeah, yeah, his name was Tony.
And I got a younger sister bythe name of Wanda, okay, and
they still all live in SouthCarolina, they're still down in

(02:27):
SC.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
They still represent.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Still representing it , you know.
So you're in South Carolina,you're growing up, you're
figuring it out, but I saw thatyou was always an entertainer.
You was always the entertainerof the family, right?
You was always the dancing one,the one that do your little
dance over there.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I was the one everybody woke up in the middle
of the night with my onesies ontalking about go ahead and do
that, james Brown boy.
Do the camel walk, do the camelwalk.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
But you know it was I didn't really lock into.
I always loved music but Ididn't lock into dancing until
my late brother, tony, like Isaid, who passed in 07 from a
motorcycle accident.
We have different mothers, wehave the same father, different
mothers, but we grew up togetherlike full brothers and I'll

(03:16):
never forget my grandmother whokind of helped raise him.
You know, like down south, yeah, you know your parents didn't
raise you, your grandparentsraised you.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
But they brought him over to the house one night and
that's.
I grew up in a mobile home andmy grandmother was like y'all
got to see something and we werelike what?
And she was like turn on theradio.
And my brother Tony went in ourkitchen area and we moved the
chairs to the side and hestarted dancing.
And for me that was the firsttime I saw a superstar, and it

(03:51):
was my brother and I rememberwatching him dance and the way
he was moving and the way he wasjust controlling it.
Because my brother Tony waspretty boy.
You know we used to call himPretty Tony, light skin, light
eyes, curly hair.
But he was shy, he was veryreserved growing up.
You know what I mean.
But when I saw him and I sawthe way he was performing I was

(04:13):
like I don't know what that is,but I gotta know how to do that.
Yeah, you gotta figure that out,I gotta figure that out Cut to
me and him became a dancing duoand every talent show, every
opportunity at a high school orhigh school event or any local
anything, and we were able todance.
We always did.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Dope, dope, dope, and I'm assuming that's how you
ended up tapping into the music,being a musical fan and the
music side as well.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, I would like to say that was a huge part of it.
But in my household my dadalways had vinyl.
He always had Isaac Hayes, healways had Brothers Johnson, he
always had Al Green.
My mom always loved Al Green.
We always had the Jackson 5,the Isaac Brothers, anything
that was produced by Gamble andHuff.
My dad was playing.
I was born in 75, so I remembereight track tapes.

(05:05):
You know what I mean.
I remember my dad having theeight track stereo system with
the strobe lights and everythinggoing.
So you know music was always inour house.
I come from a very musicallyinclined family.
You know somebody was always ina band, in a choir, playing a
guitar, playing drums orsomething like that.
So it was kind of like in ourDNA.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, yeah.
So you graduated high schooland from that correct me if I'm
wrong you decided to go to NewYork right out of high school.
You stayed in South Carolinafor a little bit.
No, no.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Initially I signed up to go to the Navy.
I got sworn in.
I got sworn in to go to the Navy, oh, go to the Navy.
I got sworn in to go to theNavy, oh wow.
And the recruiters came to pickme up to get sworn in for the
second time, which is like thefull step.
And I just looked at my mom andI said, mom, I don't want to do
this.
And she was like, well, I don'twant you to do nothing you

(05:59):
don't want to do.
I said I don't want to do it.
I said I don't want to do thisbut I don't know what I'm going
to do.
And she said, well, maybe we'llfigure it out.
And I remember the guy he came.
He was like you know, mrsMcKnight, if you can give me an
opportunity to talk to him andtell him about the benefits of
being in the military and seeingthe world, and blah, blah, blah
, blah blah.
And my mom was like he don'twant to do it.

(06:19):
I don't want him to bepersuaded, to be persuaded to do
something he don't want to do.
We'll figure it out.
So cut to.
I got a job at a textilecompany because one of my my
childhood best friends by thename of TC OK.
John Kousa.
His government is John Kousa,we call him TC.
He worked at this textile plantand he literally got this job.

(06:42):
He told me about it.
He said they were hiring.
You should go down there, fillout an application.
I filled out an application.
I started working the shippingdocs.
I was too small to maneuver allthe stuff that was coming off
the assembly line to throw intothe truck, so they moved me to
the sewing factory.
Wow, and I was stitching stufftogether.
Didn't really like that.
Then I wound up becoming friendswith the president of the

(07:04):
company and she said what do youwant to do?
And I was like I want to workupstairs with you guys and
that's where all the sales repswork.
And she was like well, you gotto come up with an idea of
something that's going to helpus financially grow within the
company.
And so I thought about it longand hard because I was kind of
like looking at the company andsee how the company was working.
And I came up with this, thiscredit application where we were

(07:27):
basically, instead of the, ourclients were Eastpac, converse,
duckhead, all these like nylondenim companies, converse we
made the Converse, we dyed thefabrics for Converse and all
that stuff and we had a onepoint five hydrothane coating
and a one point zero hydrothanecoating and it was fire retarded
and early had a 1.5 hydrothanecoating and a 1.0 hydrothane

(07:49):
coating and it was fire retardedand early on I guess now
thinking back on it, Iunderstood naturally the concept
of marketing.
So I helped them market the waythey was going to roll out in
the presentation because we willgo to these different kind of
like conventions and we'll showthem why these other companies
should be in business with us.
And I was kind of good withtalking to people and getting

(08:10):
people engaged and stuff likethat.
And so her dad was like I'mgoing to put you on a probation
period and if it works out I'llmake you a sales rep with the
company.
And I became a sales rep inprobably like six months, had my
own office and transitionedfrom working downstairs where I
had to wear like these uniformswith the company name.
I could then wear like khakipants and a polo shirt and some

(08:32):
toboggan.
Wow, that was big back then Backthen that was big and I got my
first car.
I got a Ford Escort.
It was black, with wine,burgundy interior.
You couldn't tell me nothing,nothing.
I had a Ford Escort, youcouldn't tell me nothing.
And then what happened was inthe midst of all that and I just

(08:54):
remember my boss by the name ofJoe Raffo.
He was an Italian guy from NewYork City and he had this whole
like New York kind of attitude,italian kind of, you know,
mafioso vibe, and he was likewhole New York kind of attitude,
italian kind of mafioso vibe.
And he was like, if you keepthis up, one day you're going to
make $40,000 a year.
And I was like that ain't a lotof paper.

(09:15):
I was like $40,000 a year.
One day I was like this is itso?
Literally, when that washappening, my late cousin God
bless the dead Andre Harrelltook on the position of the
president of Motown.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Motown okay.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
I'm looking at, like this dude right here is telling
me about $40,000 a year and mycousin just did a multi-million
dollar deal to be the presidentof Motown.
What the fuck am I doing righthere?
I thought about it long andhard and I remember going back
to Joe Raffo and telling himabout my cousin.

(09:54):
He was like so let me get thisright.
You're related to someone whois the president of Motown who
just signed a multi-milliondollar deal and he just couldn't
wrap his brain around it.
He didn't believe it becausehere I am in South Carolina
working for a company that isdoing extremely well, but I'm
talking about a family memberand I'm black who has more money

(10:17):
than everybody in the ecosystemof this company.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
You know what I mean.
Andre Andre deal, for you know,at Motown.
When he left Motown they cuthim a check for close to $30
million.
Wow, you know what I mean.
We did maybe a million dollarsin revenue a year.
So in 30 years we would havemade what he made in one check.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
In one check, yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
So it was kind of hard for him to wrap his brain
around that for various reasonsme, you know, being in South
Carolina, and probably me beingblack as well, and how can I be
connected to somebody on thatscale?
And when I saw that, I saw thathe not only had a short dream
for me, I was allowing that hisdream for me to be my dream for

(11:05):
me, and I didn't want to do that.
And God working mysterious ways, a week or two later they did a
Motown talent search that cameall the way to South Carolina
and I went up to one of therepresentatives that was from
New York and I said, hey, youknow, my name is O'Neill
McKnight.
And I was like, um, andreHarrell is my cousin.
And they was like, yeah, right,andre Harrell, who was the

(11:26):
president of Motown Records, thefounder of Uptown Records, is
your cousin.
I was like, yeah, it's mycousin.
They was like, yeah, right.
And I was like, no, he reallyis.
I was like his mother and mygrandmother are two sisters,
hattie Mae and Mattie Mae andthey was like, well, if he's
your cousin, why the fuck youdown here, nigga?
And that for me at that timeprobably was one of the most

(11:49):
profound statements I had everheard.
Why was I down here?
Why was I not chasing my dreamof being in entertainment, being
in New York City or gettingcloser to what I knew was going
to be my truth in this space?
And I went home that night andI thought about it and I
contemplated about it a lot andI called my grandmother.

(12:10):
God bless her soul.
She's 93 years old.
We talk every day.
Maddie Mae, shout out to mygrandma, maddie Mae in South
Carolina.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
I called up and I basically said hey, can you give
me Andre's number?
I want to talk to him.
And she told me the first thing.
She said she don't call askingfor anything and don't call
begging, because we don't beg.
She said if you're going tocall, call with, offer him
something that he might need inhis life that he don't have.
And I thought about it and Isaid I can only imagine being as

(12:39):
successful as he was at thattime in his life.
He didn't have family.
He might have friends thatbecame family, but he didn't
have family.
He didn't have nobody aroundhim that was solely looking out
for his best interest as aperson.
And I knew I had that.
And then, uh, I never forget Icalled him up and he had a live

(12:59):
operator and the operator would,if he didn't pick up the
operator would say her realresidence.
But as she was saying her realresidence, he said hello and the
operator was like Mr Harrell, Igot it, you can go back to
sleep.
He said no, no, that's all good.
Who this?
And I was like this O'Neal who?
I said O'Neal.
He said O'Neal who?

(13:20):
I said your cousin O'Neal.
He said O'Neal who?
I said your cousin O'Neal.
He said I don't know.
Nobody named my cousin O'Nealand I was like I'm Harvey Jr's
son.
He said my cousin Jr From SouthCarolina.
I said yeah, he was like nigga,what you want?
He said it's three in themorning.
I said I want an opportunity.

(13:43):
I said listen, I've beenfollowing your career from Dr
Jekyll, mr Hyde Crush, groove,da da da.
I just went through this wholediscography and he got quiet and
I was like you there, he's anigga, I'm listening and I kept
talking and when I realized hewas awake I knew then it was an
opportunity for me to strike.

(14:03):
I brought him up to speed abouteverything I had done at that
point.
I became a sales rep.
I was 19 years old.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But how I longed to be in themusic industry.
What I had did up until thatpoint, as being a little local
performer and winning all thetalent shows that I could win in
the area and stuff like that.
He's okay.
He's a sound cue go-getter.
He was like you got anyvacation time on your job and I

(14:26):
was like I don't know.
I was like I never took avacation before.
He's where you should check inon your job and see if you got
any vacation time.
And he's you got a vacationtime.
You should come to New York fora long weekend.
He was like maybe it might besomething you might like and I
was like, okay, that's what I'mgoing to do.
He said, all right.
He said if it all worked out,he said I might be seeing you

(14:46):
Simultaneously.
My grand aunt and Mary Jane Godbless her soul.
She passed a few years back.
She would come every summer tosee my grandmother.
She would take the train or thebus down.
She came down and I had beenstrategizing how I was going to
go back with her and I went backto New York with her on the
Greyhound bus and on a Greyhoundbus, my late brother Tony and I

(15:09):
and we stayed with Andre'smother God bless her soul and
Hattie, who passed in 2003.
She lived in Hackensack, newJersey, at 245 Prospect
Hackensack, and I remember shepicked us up in a limo and I had
never been in a limo before andI remember it was summertime,
it was hot, but she had on amint coat and I looked at her

(15:33):
and I said, hattie, she was likeone of my favorite grandaunts.
She's my grandmother's sisterand me and her were super close.
When she would come down duringthe summers I would always
assist her in whatever sheneeded.
Maybe we'll get some ice water,we'll go get me, we'll get me a
tangerine, you know, I meanwhatever I would do, you know,
and she took a liking to me andso I never forget, when she came

(15:58):
and she, she scooped us up andit was hot and I said hey, it's
so hot why you got you got on alimo.
I said Hattie, it's so hot, whydo you have on a fur coat?
She said it get really cold inthe limo.
Wow, I was like, oh, theseniggas rich.
Yeah, they got that differentkind of paper.

(16:18):
We jumped in the limo.
She said I know y'all tiredfrom the ride.
She said but we're going to goout to the Hamptons.
I had never been to theHamptons.
I never knew what the Hamptonswas.
She said Andre just got a housein the Hamptons.
She said they're having somepeople out and she said we're
going to probably spend theweekend out there.
I'm unloading the car.
I rang the doorbell, russellSimmons opened the door.

(16:41):
Wow, my first time RussellSimmons opened the door.
I look in the house.
I see Heavy D in the kitchenmaking a ham and cheese sandwich
.
I look up.
I see Puff coming down thestairs His arm's in a sling Wow.
I look over there I seeLaurieann Gibson, who my cousin

(17:05):
Andre was dating at the time,had on a Lacoste tennis dress.
It looked like the Lacostetennis dresses.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
I remember the tennis dresses.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
I remember that era and she had some little Stan
Smiths.
And then I look and I see Andrewalking around the corner.
I could see, like yesterday hehad on these gold frame glasses
with a light blue tint.
He had on this gingham checklacquer shirt the gator was tiny
on the pocket and he had onthese khaki pants.

(17:35):
He had on these all whitecanvas pro kids and he had on a
pair of white socks and Iremember on the right ankle of
the sock it had a hole in it,wow.
And he had on a solid goldCartier watch.
And I just watched him I waslike, oh shit, to keep in mind,
andre's my dad first cousin.
He's my second cousin.
There's a 15 year gap.

(17:55):
I hadn't seen Andre at thattime since 1987.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Wow Okay.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
So I wasn't Andre was .
You know, he was that familymember that was doing well, he
was successful.
It was like it's like MichaelJackson for us.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
You know what I mean, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
You know how many family reunions Michael Jackson
went back to in Gary Indiana.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Not, not that many, you know.
So I remember when I saw him Ibum, rushed him immediately and
was like yo yo, yo yo, somethingto eat.
We were there 30 minutes andmom, I'm back to Jersey.
She's asking me.
I made a promise to yourparents.
I made a promise to my sister,your grandmother, that I was not

(18:39):
going to have you around,anything that was going to
jeopardize who you were going tobe, and I was like it's Bill.
She was like get stuff.
So, dude, we drove two hoursjust to be there for 30 minutes
and two hours back and we wasback and I stayed with her for

(19:00):
about that weekend.
It went by so fast and theneverything was moving really,
really fast and I remember Andrewasn't calling to check.
I came in to meet with him so Iwas like what's going on?
And Hattie was like you know,he's really busy, he's president

(19:21):
of Motown, and I was like butI'm going to set up a time y'all
can meet with him.
I never forget we went over tomeet with him At the time.
His assistant was NormaArgenblatt and Norma Argenblatt
was sitting outside the door andAndre was sitting there and he
had all these different likeNAACP and ASCAP and BMI type

(19:44):
stuff in his office and plaquesand this uptown records and this
and that.
And so I was like here's myresume, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
And he was you bought thatbusiness you want to get down to
.
I said yo, I didn't want to takeit the opportunity like he was
my family.
I wanted to treat it like itwas professional and it was
business.
I didn't want him to look at melike, oh, here's a cousin I
don't know wanting something.

(20:06):
So I wanted to treat thesituation like how I would treat
any other interview.
And so I came with a binder anda whole thing and he was like,
let's talk about some stuff.
He was like you know, what doyou like?
He made it very personable andhe said at the end of the day,
what do you want to do in life?
I said I just want to do in life.
I said I just want to makepeople feel the way Michael
Jackson made me feel.
I said, whatever that is, I'llsay if that's as an executive,

(20:28):
that's as an artist, that's as atalent.
I said Michael Jackson was asuperhero for me and I was like
he was the first black superheroI ever saw growing up that
wasn't bitten by a radioactivespider, that wasn't from Krypton
.
I was like he was a nigga fromGary, indiana.

(20:48):
You know what I mean Raising alittle, you know, two bedroom
house with nine brothers andsisters.
Then he asked my brother, he'smy brother, I want to make money
, I just want to get this money.
You know I want to do that.
And I don't know what thedynamic of that meant.
But he said y'all excuse me fora second, let me talk to my
mother.
And I'm standing there and Iremember I'm standing there and
I see a 16 year old, anel ply,and anel is an intern working
with norma, and that was thefirst time like I saw, like you

(21:11):
know a latin girl and I remembershe was like beautiful,
curvaceous, curly hair down tohere.
I was like jesus christ, wow,like what is happening.
You know I'm saying to myself.
I said don't lose focus.
I was like what is happening,I'm saying to myself.
I said don't lose focus.
Norma said you can go back in.
I went back in.
He was like Tony, how you wantto get back to South Carolina?

(21:37):
Tony said I don't know, I got agirl back there.
He was like I'm going to giveyou some money.
He leaned back, sitting in achair very similar to this.
He pulled out like maybe $1,000, $1,500.
He gave it to him and he saidall right.
He said I'm going to set thatup, make sure you get back.
And he looked at me.
He said you're going to livewith my mother in Hackensack,

(21:58):
new Jersey, and you're going tolearn how to take the buses from
Jersey to the city.
You're going to understand howto navigate through the city.
I said, but I'm going to be bymyself.
He said hey, you've got tolearn.
He's got to figure it out.
He's your intern for me, he'syour intern for Russell, he's
your intern for Puff.
He was like you're an internand just learn the game.

(22:19):
He said, listen, if there'swhat's going to, you know, it'll
work itself out.
And I remember walking down thehall with my brother and I
started crying.
My brother was like damn, youfucked up, you ain't got no
paper.
And I was crying because I knewthat's where our lives were
going, like this.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I suspect I wasn't there.
I suspect he connected with youbecause you didn't mention
money.
Yeah, he wanted the opportunity.
I wasn't there.
I suspect he connected with youbecause you didn't mention
money.
The money would come eventuallybecause it was an opportunity,
whereas your brother hementioned the money and Andre
was like okay, he's you know,with me when somebody mentions

(22:58):
money earlier makes me a littlewary because it's like okay, if.
I can make you money, then thenext I can make you money, then
the next person can make youmore money, and then you're.
I don't know where your loyaltywill lie, because you, just
you're just about the money,you're not about the opportunity
.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, and see for me.
For me, andre was the key tothe opportunity, that was, to
the money.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Exactly, that's my point.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
I knew that early on and I kind of saw that.
But you know, to my, to mybrother's defense, you know,
yeah, and I'm not.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
I'm not.
I'm not saying anythingnegative about your brother he
was honest about what he what hewanted.
He was honest about what hewanted.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
When I say we came from humble beginnings.
We came from humble beginningsLynchburg, south Carolina.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, new York city, brightlights, the whole nine.
You know we were fish out ofwater is an understatement,
right.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
And we'll be right back.
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And now back to our show.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Talk to me now about the internship and who you
started to connect with and howthings started to come into
focus, about what the musicbusiness was and what you wanted
out of it.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Well, when I started I started hopping around a
little bit trying to figure outwho I was going to roll with.
Who was my clique?
You know I would stick my headin Eddie F's office but he was
just too busy.
He was head A and R.
He was too busy.
You know, I would stick my headin Sugar Dice's office and he

(25:07):
was like nigga whatever get outof here.
You know he was like AndrewRand nigga, whatever, get out of
here.
You know.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Andrew Randemmy nigga get out of here.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I was like damn and I rolled with Kenny Burns and
Kenny Burns was the first personthat took me to Howard
Homecoming, kenny Burns.
And Clark Kent immediatelyadopted me.
I was walking down the hallwayone day and I used to wear a big

(25:38):
ass Mickey Mouse earring and Iused to wear creases in my jeans
and Clark Kent was like I'mnever going to tell you not to
be you, but I can't let you dothis shit you're doing right now
.
He's a shit is flagrant.
And Kenny Burns was my big bro,not out the gate, because he

(26:04):
was young, ambitious, trying todo his thing, but when we click,
we click his thing.
But when we clicked, we clicked.
And I'll never forget Kenny wasin his office because him and
Fatima Holly were part of thestreet team at Motown and Howard
Homecoming was coming up and Iremember going into Kenny's

(26:25):
office and Kenny was like yo,howard Homecoming.
I said what's that?
He said you've never been toHoward Homecoming.
I said no, I ain't never beennowhere.
He was like yo, howard Holcomb.
I said what's that?
He said you've never been toHoward Holcomb.
I said no, I ain't never beennowhere.
He was like yo, you got to go.
So at this point, I'm becomingmore connected and friendly with
the staff than Andre, because Ididn't see Andre.
Andre was always walking withsomebody and they would have a
piece of paper and he would besigning it and Andre would see

(26:46):
me in the hallway literallyevery day and give me a thousand
dollars or fifteen hundreddollars every day.
Wow, he's, are you good, youneed anything?
Hold on for a second and giveme cash.
So I had accumulated all thiscash and I wasn't going anywhere
because I was living in jersey,didn't know jersey well enough
to move around, didn't know thecity well enough to move around,
and so I saw andre, andre.

(27:07):
He was like what you doing,what you got going, andre.
He was like what you doing,what you got going on.
And I was like Kenny Burns toldme some some how, how?
I mean he was like that's goodfor you, that's culturally good
for you.
You need to see that.
You need to see empowered blackpeople, educated black people.
You need to be around that.
You need to understand that.
Ba, ba, ba, ba.
Yeah, here, take this, here,take this.

(27:28):
Wow, he gave me like three Gsand I remember I came back to
the office and Kenny was like.
He was like what's the hot caryoung boys is driving right now?
And somebody said the new GMCBlazers is hot.
And he was like no, I'm goingto get them a GMC Blazer for the
weekend.
And I remember going back toKenny and Kenny was like what

(27:50):
did he say?
I said they're getting us a GMCBlazer and he gave me three Gs.
Kenny was like what?
He was like you have to give me500 because this experience I'm
about to show you.
I mean you got to give me someof this paper.
So I broke Kenny off but Kennywas like first we got to get
your outfit right.
We went to Paragon and I gotthe Phillies baseball jersey

(28:16):
with the hat pants, the wholething.
He was like we got to make sureour outfits is right and we
drove out to Howard Homecoming.
That's when I met Sabe and Esauand all those guys that was part
of, you know, kenny's crew ofpeople, leo, all those guys I'm
still friends with to this dayand I'm like 30 years ago.
You know what I mean.

(28:37):
But that was that experiencethat you know.
Andre threw me into this hub ofculture and was like hold on a
second, let's figure out whereyou want to.
You know where you want to beand where you need to be, figure
out where you want to be andwhere you need to be and
ultimately, kenny and I arestill best friends to this day.
But I became Maddox's internand Maddox was director and he

(29:01):
ran the video department andhe's an Aries, I'm an Aries.
We had a lot of similarinterests.
We kind of like kind of to theleft abstract a little bit, and
we became really really, reallygood friends while I was over at
motown so tell me about how.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Well, now what the movie honey was that part of
that experience?

Speaker 2 (29:23):
honey was in in in well.
alonzo brown, who's the otherhalf of Dr Jekyll, and Malady
wrote the movie Honey and Andrealways dibbled and dabbled with
film, you know, with who's theman Sick of Business.
Had the TV show yeah, new YorkUndercover.
Yeah, with Dick Wolf and Alonzoand Kim Watson had wrote this

(29:44):
really cool script and they weretoying around with the idea of
taking it out to market andselling.
Well, they sold it rather quick.
Then they were trying to figureout who was going to be the
lead.
There was talks about Aaliyah,there was talks about Singamaya
and Universal landed on JessicaAlba because Jessica Alba had a

(30:04):
hit show that had been canceledcalled Dark Angel.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, Dark Angel Yep.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
And they said that she was the next big thing and
Jessica Alba came and read forit and she got the part and to
this day we're still friends.
She made my daughter the honestbaby on the honest packages of
diapers and stuff, and so westill have a great friendship.
When I had my first kid, shewas like, okay, I'm about to put
your baby on diapers and stuffall over the world and I was

(30:31):
like what are you talking?
about trust fund.
You get that money right.
Yeah, my baby was making moneybefore she could even count.
Wow, that was in 2000.
My mom died in 2000 and we didhoney in 2001 okay.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Well, now you were you still at.
Was andre still at motown bythis point?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
andre uh role at motown was very short-lived.
I think Andre was at Motownmaybe two years.
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, because Danny Goldberg
came.
It was this whole conflict ofinterest, danny Goldberg who had
Hanson.
They had a hit song, um Bop andhe was saying that there was
enough hits coming out of Motown.

(31:10):
There was a lot of spending butno hits.
They wanted somebody to overseeAndre.
Part of Andre's contract wasnobody was going to oversee him.
He was president and CEO ofMotown.
Of course not.
Andre was like I'm not gettingready to answer nobody.
Hanson, you know what I mean.
Mary J Blige.

(31:33):
Albie Shaw heavy, yeah, yeah soso, um, so then he, he resigned,
he resigned.
You know, contrary to a lot ofpeople say he was fired.
No, he resigned and, and, andthey cut him a check for, like
you know, 30 million.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
So with Honey, what was your role on that film?

Speaker 2 (31:49):
I was a costume consultant.
I worked with Susan Mathesonwho was costume design.
I was costume consultant andAndre was like I got to make
sure you are part of thisbecause I need the authenticity
and the style to be right, andnot that Susan wasn't able to do
it, but it was like you know.
I took Susan to Harlem.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
The street shit.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, I took Jessica Alvins to 125th Street, I took
Susan to Harlem to get thebamboo earring that says Jessica
and the name plates and theearring that said honey and all
that.
We went to Harlem for real andwe got that done and we just
wanted to.
I just wanted to make sure,like, because we shot it in
Toronto and visually on cameraToronto can pass as a baby New

(32:31):
York, but if the styling is notright, you know it's not New
York, and so that was one of themain things that I wanted to do
when I was working on Honey wasmaking sure like the continuity
of the look for New York Citystyle was on point.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
So was that your first kind of foray into styling
?

Speaker 2 (32:51):
No, no, my first foray into styling.
I think I said foraying intostyling.
I've never used that word in mylife.
It happened by accident, man, Iwas after interning and moving
around the city.
Smokey Fontaine had a magazinecalled Trace Magazine.
Yep, yes, called Trace Magazine.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yup.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
And I told Andre, I said yo, I was seeing Andre and
Russell and all these guys indifferent magazines.
I want to be in a magazine.
Andre said you got to dosomething to be in a magazine.
He was like they don't just putyou in a magazine unless you're
a model.
He was way too short to be amodel.
He was like unless you'remodeling kid clothes.
But he was like you know, keepdoing what you're doing.

(33:30):
And so I was like well, I'minterning, I'm hustling, I'm
becoming more and more a bit ofa socialite, and people know me
in New York.
I'm going to write a storyabout myself and I'm going to
submit it.
So this is the era where youlook in the back of the front of
the magazine, you see theeditor and chief and so, and so
I sent my story to everymagazine.

(33:51):
I could think of Vibe, source,xxl, you name it.
And I saw Trace Magazine oneday on the stand and I was like
this is a cool kind of artsydowntown vibe magazine.
I'm just going to send it.
And lo and behold, I don't evenknow how.
I think I just I think I mailedthem, to be honest with you,
because it wasn't like you was.

(34:11):
You know I must have mailed it.
I didn't text it.
I must have mailed it to himphysically, but anyway, smokey
Fontaine got it and loved it andI wrote the story about myself
and Jason Delgado, who used tobe Puff's personal assistant,
and we both were grinding at thesame time and I was like I want
to make it a two-part story.
I went to Harlem in front ofSouthern Fried Chicken and did

(34:35):
the photo shoot.
My girlfriend at the time tookthe pictures with a disposable
Kodak camera and I changed inthe bathroom and they ran the
story as is with all the photosthat we took ourselves.
Wow.
And that became a domino effectbecause people started talking
about me and started noticing mein that space and I kind of

(34:59):
stumbled into being a stylist byaccident.
I wasn't trying to be a stylistand one of my biggest things
was a meal.
Who was running by a Magazineat the time approached me and
said yo, everybody be talkingabout your style and you're
always swaggy and this and blah,blah, blah, blah.
I don't even know swaggy wasthe word then, but whatever the
word was then, he was like I wasthat.

(35:21):
He was like I got this columncalled Up.
Next he was like it's going tobe featured on new artists.
He was like I would love foryou to be the person who styled
that.
And that first person I styledfor Up Next was like 11-year-old
, 12-year-old, bow Wow, wow.
And I went in there not knowingwhat to expect and I was like

(35:42):
he's a kid, how can I make himkid?
Cool, but cool enough to hangout with the big boys?
Because I was always kind oflike that kid growing up.
So, I just made Bow Wow, earlyBow Wow, with just how I was as
a kid from a visual standpointand I remember that's the first
time I met Jermaine Dupri andJermaine Dupri was like yo, I

(36:02):
like this guy, I'm going to seeyou on the photo shoot.
And I was like what photo shootare you talking about?
He was like the album cover.
I said the magazine hired me.
He said, well, I want you forthat.
But they had already hired astylist and I said I don't want
you still there.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
I'm here.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I was like I don't want to take somebody else's job
.
So if you hired a stylist toalready do the album cover, let
he or she do that and give meeverything else.
And JD was like OK, cool, andPuppy Love, bow, wow, wow, all
that stuff like Mike video, allthat stuff I did, wow, wow.

(36:43):
So that became a domino effect.
And Jermaine Dupri who I alwaysacknowledge when I see, but I
don't ever really shout out, Ifeel now enough in forums like
this Jermaine Dupri was a hugepart in me becoming a stylist,
because Jermaine then saidthere's this artist named Chris

(37:05):
Bridges.
I'm going to connect you withhim.
He's a real personality.
He got a song that's heating up.
It's called I wanna.
I connected with them, did thatvideo.
Then he connected me with ajagged edge.
Then he was like usher shot avideo.
Uh, the label don't like it.
They didn't spend a bunch ofmoney on a photo shoot.
We got to figure, figure it outhow we going to make this.

(37:26):
Uh, right, and then he put meon the phone with la reed and la
reed was like listen, jd saidyou could fix this.
And that became the 87 on oneproject and the 87 album cover.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
And I remember la, you know you did that cover.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
I had no idea that yeah, yeah, I did that album
cover and and I was off to theraces after that.
I was on fire, I was, you know,and then then became my my job
records you know relationship,but you know I met you and was
working with Grace and when thiswas a danger too short, you
know, and working on thosevideos and it became, I remember

(38:03):
one time watching 106 in partand 106 in part was, you know,
top 10 video countdown.
I will watch it and sometimes,on any given week, eight of the
videos in the countdown would bemine.
Wow, Like eight.
You have 112 Pieces of Cream.
You have Shake your Ass DangerBow Wow.
Whoever Bow Wow was, Mr 106 andPark.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
My videos with Bow Wow lived on number one all the
time.
Then it was a trickle down andI remember one day I got a call
from Puff and Puff was like Idid a few things with Puff but
never really had styled him.
And you know, he he made itfeel like, ok, you ready to
address Godzilla?
You know he was like you ready,you ready now, you ready to get

(38:47):
me right, you ready to get meright?
And so I had did his girl group, dream.
That was shot by Marcus Rayboy,and also Dream was signed to
Kenny Burns 2620 production andthat was like a little, you know
, a label situation that he hadover there and I did that.
And then I think the first bigvideo I did for Puff was the D,

(39:07):
the I, the D, the D, the Y, the.
D and Brett Ratner shot that andwe was off to the races you
were flying.
Oh, I mean, I was like I said Iwas styling everybody I had
worked with, from Carl Thomas toMystical, to Jagged Edge, to

(39:30):
112, to.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
So before we move forward, give me I always say
spicy because I'm like, I don'teven like the word crazy Give me
one spicy story.
You don't have to name theartist.
Give me one spicy story about astyling thing that was kind of
wild or went left or it was fun,it doesn't matter.
But give me one spicy story.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
It was with God.
Bless the Dead, is it?
Prodigy from Mobb Deep rightProdigy.
He had a song with BG and Istyled the video and I had.
You know, you borrow jewelry,you borrow stuff.
And I remember borrowing somejewelry from a jewelry company
Obviously it's insured and yousign this letter of agreement

(40:16):
and intent and all that stuff,because I wanted to always make
my videos fly and accessorizeand whatever.
And I just remember there wassomething that was wrong with
craft service, that he didn'twant to eat off a craft service
table.
We shot the video in Queens.
He wanted to go off-site to getsomething to eat.

(40:38):
Came back, bandana waswop-sided, shirt was ripped and
guiding jewels was ripped andguiding jewels was gone.
And I just remember and it'smade me realize like, wow, shit

(41:01):
can happen for me to be on myP's and Q's and make sure like,
hey, take that necklace off,take that Rolex off, take that
ring off, take that bracelet offIf you're going to leave the
site.
I was trying to appease him andwhen he was in his hood I
didn't want him to feel like hecan't be in his hood and do his
thing.
But I remember when thathappened I was just like, oh my
God.
And then having to call myfriend who parents owned the

(41:24):
jewelry company.
That was a relationship thatkind of like fell to pieces
based off that one moment.
Relationship that kind of likefell to pieces based off that
one moment, wow, wow.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
So wait.
So now you're styling, you'rekilling them out there, you're
doing your thing.
Now is this about the time youmet DJ Cassidy or had you known
Cassidy?
Previous to this.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
I met DJ.
I saw DJ Cassidy around.
I thought he was Puerto Rican.
Yeah, I thought he was a PuertoRican dude, like one of the
Puerto Rican niggas.
I really didn't meet Cassidyuntil I was down in Miami.
I was dating a girl from Miamiand I had flew down to Miami and

(42:04):
DJ Cassidy, farnsworth Bentleya bunch of us was down at the
same time and they were by thepool chilling and I walked up
and I was like where the girl'sat what's popping?
You know, let's get it going on, going on.
And I was like yo, what'spoppin'?
Y'all doing, Y'all niggasworried about suntans, y'all

(42:25):
killing it.
Y'all killing it.
I gotta be out of here.
And later that night Puff had adinner with Pharrell and a
bunch of people and we went overthere and we hung out.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
We had dinner and I was like I'm out Immediately.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
I didn't like Cassidy , didn't like him at all.
He just rubbed me the wrong way, just didn't like his energy
Cut to.
I moved to the Upper East Sideon 74 between First and York.
I get a call from him sayingthat I heard you moved to the
Upper East Side.
I was like yeah.
He was like I live up here, I'mon 72nd and 2nd or something
like that, and I was like okay,cool.

(43:05):
He was like yo, man, we shouldhang out sometime, we should.
You know, da, da, da.
And I was like nigga, I don'treally want to hang out with you
.
You know what I mean to unpackand I'm getting ready to go to
Europe.
I got a lot of stuff to do.
Ba, ba, ba, ba ba.
Long story longer.
I hung out with him and heplayed me some beats and some

(43:25):
stuff that he had been workingon with his producing partner.
And he played a track.
It was the first time in mylife that I heard words to the
track in my brain.
I started freestyling it and hewas like you just made that up.
And I was like yeah, he justcame to me.
I said weird.

(43:45):
He's like that's crazy.
You write songs.
I said nah.
He said yo, hold on for asecond.
He grabbed a little recorder.
He was like you think you cando it again.
I was like I'll try.
I sang like the first versedamn it to the, to the course.
And that became check your coat, wow.
And I got a record deal basedoff that.

(44:08):
Because Cassie and I wererelentless with going to every
club, every hotspot, whether itwas butter, whether it was one,
oh, whether it was you name it.
We went to every club in NewYork to the point where enough
heard it, started playing it andstarted breaking in that radio.
Ebro started playing it, missJones, angie Martinez, everybody

(44:28):
started playing the record.
It was like a huge thing.
And then one day we weretalking about like where is this
going, what are we doing withthis?
And we get a knock on the doorand it's Ebro and Monty Littman.
Wow, and Ebro and Monty.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Littman Wow.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
And Ebro, and Monty Littman was there, because Ebro
was a program director of Hot 97at the time and he was like yo,
you know.
Monty was like I know what thisis, I want this record, I want
to give you a singles deal.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, and Iwas like let's do it.
Cassie was, yeah, okay, let'sthink about it.
I'm not trying to be no artist,no singer, I'm not debauched,

(45:02):
I'm like, let's just run withthis and see where it goes.
Let's run to see where it goes.
Wind up landing with my dearfriend and my big brother to
this day, Steve Griffin at SRC.
Sylvia Rome had wanted thissingle.
I had met with Sylvia.
It was a great experience, man,man.
So Cass and I became bestfriends and he produced my first

(45:24):
single that got me a recorddeal.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Wow that's a long way from South Carolina.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
A long way from South Carolina, especially, you know,
going on the road and doingthese tours.
We did this college tour MeTiana Taylor, ryan Leslie.
Oh my god, jojo Lloyd Doingthese tours.
We did this college tour MeTiana Taylor, ryan Leslie oh my
God, jojo Lloyd.
Gym Class Heroes.
It was crazy.
I went from being a stylist tobeing a recording artist, to
being an artist and loving everyminute of it.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Wow, now, at this point, are you still living in
New York or have you moved to LAAt?

Speaker 2 (45:57):
this point, I'm still in New York.
Or you moved to LA, I'm stillin New York City.
I tell you I was loving itbecause it was crazy, because I
was opening up shows.
I opened up for 50 Cent inAtlantic City and was doing
shows.
Don C flew me out to do a showin Chicago.
Dj AM flew me out to LA to doshows.

(46:19):
My song DJ AM flew me out to LAto do shows.
My song was DJ Felly Fell.
It was Pup Dog in Boston.
You know everybody.
I was doing all these shows andI was loving it.
That was an amazing, amazingrun.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Wow, wow.
So, tell me how did you get toLA?

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I got to LA because the song had stopped playing.
Okay, in a nutshell, I wasliterally got burnt out.
On New York, I saw the cultureand there was a cultural shift.
Yeah, yeah, what I was used toNew York was like this very
sacred thing, right, everybodydidn't have access to it.

(46:58):
And then I started to realize,because everybody wanted to make
more and more money, theystarted to get more and more
people access to it.
It lost a lot of thatspecialness and that magic.
And I'm not an elitist by anymeans, but I do like to feel
like my shit ain't likeeverybody else's.
You know what I'm saying andwhen you have been moving like

(47:24):
that for a long time and then itstarted to shift, you're like,
hold on a sec, what's going on.
And so I was like you know what, la, is the next step for me?
I want to get more into filmand tv and content and things
like that.
And I mean I packed my shit upand and moved, moved to
california.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Okay, you moved to la .
So before we get into, pastorMike, tell me about Kosher Roll,
your reality show, which you'renow with your now wife Kosher
Roll, kosher Soul.
Kosher Soul.
I'm tripping Kosher Soul.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Listen, that's a good spin on it, because the guy can
be Jewish and she can be Asianand it can be Kosher Roll.
There you go, there you go,there you go.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
So kosher soul.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
My then girlfriend, now wife, was.
She would come back and forthfrom LA to New York because she
had moved out here, because shewas a stylist, and that's how we
met ultimately.
And we were just watching TVone night and I was watching the
Kardashians, all this realityTV stuff.

(48:23):
Right, it was that era.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
It was that era of reality.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Everything was we should do a show.
And she was like what I said, weshould do a reality show.
She's about, well, it's aboutus.
She said what would be about?
I was like I'm black, you'reJewish, interracial, interfaith,
a relationship.
She was like what would it be?
I was like Kosher Soul and shelooked at me like that's a good

(48:49):
name actually, and I was likelet's do Kosher Soul.
And I took this.
Cassie's dad one ChristmasChristmas bought us all these
little flip cams, okay, and Ididn't try to record anything
with a storyline, I justrecorded us being us hanging out

(49:10):
, going out, thriving, doingstuff.
And I had a friend of minenamed Ebiz, lived downtown, he
was great at editing, he choppedit up and had graphics kosher
soul and us and dah, dah, dah.
And I had told Cassidy about it.
Cassidy was like yo, um, that'sa dope idea, cut to.
I moved to LA, put it on theback burner a little bit.

(49:34):
I was trying to figure out my,my, my, to figure out my base
here and what I was going to bedoing, and met a young lady,
told her about the idea.
She loved it, she wanted toshop it.
She loved it but didn't knowhow to shop it.
So we met with BET, we met allthese people and sometimes you

(49:56):
know, it's always good to havesomebody to believe in what
you're doing, but if they're notthe right person it still don't
work.
You know what I mean.
And God bless her.
She was an amazing person, butit wasn't the right person.
And so Cassidy had told usabout Ish Entertainment, michael
Herschon, those guys, you guysshould meet with them.
We met with them.

(50:16):
They liked it, didn't seem likethey was that into it.
Okay, we guys let you know,didn't hear anything from them,
so signed with this chick.
She shopping us for like sixmonths the day her contract was
up with us.
Two days after the two daysafter her contract was up, I get

(50:38):
a call from Melissa Cooper whoworked worked at Ish and say hey
, this is Melissa Cooper.
Where are you guys with thatshow idea?
Kosher Soul?
I said our contract just ranout with the person that was
shopping it for us.
She was like we want to fly toLA, shoot a pilot, take it out
and shop it.
I was like what?
And I was like what?

(50:58):
And I was like, okay, and theycame out, shot the pilot, they
took the real screen.
Tlc wanted it at the time,oxygen wanted it at the time,
lifetime wanted it at the time,lifetime was a better deal for
us.
I don't think it was a betternetwork, but it was a better
deal.
I got you, lifetime bought itand we got paid.

(51:22):
Wow, coach's soul, coach's soul.
Our first night it aired over700,000 people tuned in.
That's crazy.
Even to this day, which is 10years later, I can go to the
Grove and I can go anywhere, andpeople still ask me when are

(51:46):
y'all coming back?
When are y'all coming back?
When that show was running, wehad a publicist from Lifetime
that was supposed to book usstuff.
But I had already had so manyrelationships in the
entertainment business I don'tcare Every magazine outlet,
because I was a stylist, she wasa stylist.

(52:07):
They was calling us PeopleMagazine, ok Magazine, us
Magazine.
They did our wedding spread thewhole thing.
Everybody was TD Jakes his talkshow.
We did everything.
Wedding spread the whole thing.
Everybody was, uh, td Jake'shis talk show, everybody, we did
everything.
Um, if we were, I think that wewere a little too early ahead

(52:27):
of the curve, ahead of the curveahead of the curve.
If we were to come now with theright team team, it would be a
smash monster yeah.
Yeah, so real quick I yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
So real quick, I want to talkabout um, uh, pass the mic and
where that.
So um, pass the mic, cause thisI classic R&B artists and rap
artists, because that's whatCassidy plays at his parties.

(53:00):
He plays classic stuff morethan the new stuff and it always
rocked.
Cassidy's like retarded I don'twant to say retarded, that's
the wrong word but he's anamazing DJ.
He's amazing.
So tell me about that and wherethat's taken you.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Well, you know what?
It's funny because Cassidy hadthis brilliant idea during the
pandemic, when everybody wastrying to figure out what their
next chapter in life yeah, inthe house, everybody's in the
house, and Cassidy's Rolodex ofcelebrity friends, of who's who
is insane met anybody who is sowell liked and so well received

(53:44):
from his peers and people whocame before us and our legendary
people that love working withhim.
And you know he's a great guy.
You know sometimes he get on mynerves, but it's just so right.
You know what I mean.
And when Andre, andre andCassie had did a mixed CD called
Champagne and Bubbles, Iremember that, I remember that,
I remember that.
Everybody was playing in ontheir yachts and their boats and
their vacation.

(54:04):
It was very summertime vibe andwhen Andre passed May 7, 2020,
bet, jesse Collins and thoseguys they reached out to us and
Wendy Credo, for us to work onAndre's BET special, which was

(54:25):
like recapping his life, withinterviews and different people,
and it really gave the templateof what Pastor Mike would then
become, because you have Cassidyand it was me sitting beside
him, but you have Cassidyessentially sitting in his
living room dressed like DJCassidy and it was me sitting
beside him, but you have Cassidyessentially sitting in his
living room dressed like DJCassidy, and we're talking about

(54:45):
Andre Cut to Cassidy thencreates Pastor Mike, where he's
in his living room and he'spassing the mic to some of the
most legendary acts and talentsthat we've ever seen in our
lifetime, and this thing blew upand Jesse Collins and those
guys at BET they loved it andthey turned it into a series and
we continuously tried to figureout how to make this thing grow

(55:06):
.
It turned into a concert, thenit turned into a residency in
Vegas, then it turned into, Imean, the legs of Pastor Mike.
The brilliant thing aboutPastor Mike is it makes you feel
good?
Yes, because a lot of those actssometimes get forgotten.

(55:30):
Because, especially in ourculture, we're so quick for the
new thing.
We don't allow our acts to turninto the Rolling Stones and
Aerosmith.
We really don't.
We don't.
As soon as they get old, wedon't mess our acts to turn into
the Rolling Stones andAerosmith.
We really don't, we don't.
As soon as they get old, we'llsay oh, we don't mess with that,
no more.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
We don't do that, no more.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Nobody's going to buy those tickets.
Nobody's going to say it.
Cassidy has proven that notonly is there an audience for
these talents from thatgeneration, people still want to
see them perform.
And, man, we've been around theworld with Pastor Mike and we
got a lot of special thingscoming up this year and next
year with Pastor Mike and we'rejust really excited just to

(56:07):
continuously build and watchthis IP grow.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
It's interesting because there's a Queens of R&B
tour out now with Chaka Khan,stephanie Mills, gladys Knight
and Patti LaBelle.
I'm watching online.
It seems to be doing extremelywell.
All four are great performers.
All four of them have we onlytalk about the catalog.
I really attribute that and I'mseeing other things come out on

(56:34):
the pike to Pastor Mike.
I attribute that to these kindof tours that are going on now
Charlie Wilson and Babyface anda couple of other guys.
They're going on as well.
I attribute all that that thekernel of these things started
with, in my opinion, with PastorMike.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
No, absolutely Got to shout out Steve Rifkin, because
Steve Rifkin was the one whotook it to BET Wow, okay, and
got the deal done.
So shout out, steve Rifkin.
Steve Rifkin was the one whotook it to BET Wow, and got the
deal done.
So shout out to Steve Rifkin.
Shout out to Shelby at theBlack Promotive Collective.
Shelby was the one who came andsaid this is big, it could go
on the road.
Here's the money.
Let's make this happen.

(57:14):
And I'm talking from jazz inthe garden, I'm talking to we
got a big show that I can't say,you know we're in the way If
it's not a big show coming up,you know, god willing, this
summer and we're super excitedabout that.
But no, it just is.
It just reminds me that we areas old as we allow ourselves to

(57:38):
be true, me that we are as oldas we allow ourselves to be true
, and if we allow ourselves tostill celebrate our music, our
culture and continuously to holdit up, it'll stand up exactly.
Yeah, I mean like so.
So you know, when I, when I dothese shows and I, and I see,
you know, these acts come out onstage and and and they rock and
, and I mean we've been sellingout.

(57:58):
You know 12 these acts come outon stage and they rock, and I
mean we've been selling out.
You know 12, 15,000 seaters,you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Like that ain't nothing to you know, sneeze at
no, not at all.
Not at all.
That's legit, that's realbusiness.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
That's real business and we've been taking it around
the world and I think for usthat really showed us how big we
sold out Planet Hollywoodresidency every weekend.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Sold out, seeing people like I'm from Tupelo,
mississippi, and I had to comehere and see da-da-da-da-da and
da-da-da-da-da and I'm fromArkansas and da-da-da-da-da, and
it's just every walk of life,shape, color and creed.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Yeah, that's a beautiful thing, man, Walk past
the mic.
That's a beautiful thing.
So we're going to wrap up withtell me about what you're doing
now.
I know you're working with AlanHughes.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Yeah, yeah, oh man.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Tell me a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Yeah, well, right now I'm the business director of a
company called Gus Cloud, andGus Cloud is an influencer
content creator company.
We and Gus Cloud is aninfluencer content creator
company.
We are like the CA ICM of thedigital space.
We have 13 offices around theglobe.
Our main office is in Singapore.
We just opened up our mostrecent office in Abu Dhabi.
So our goal is to not only signtalent but also create

(59:14):
financial literacy for talent.
They show them how to managetheir money.
You got these kids making 50,60 grand a month, even more than
that.
That doesn't come with a 401kplan.
That doesn't come withfinancial literacy.
That does come with.
I got a lot of paper and I wantto spend it.
I'm going to buy McLarens andAPs and all that, we're trying

(59:36):
to educate them in that way andsign really great talent.
This is where it is.
Whether we want to believe itor not, there's kids who, when
they graduate, they want to beinfluencers, they want to be
content creators.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
It's a real business and it's a real occupation.
It's a real thing.
That's not just like somebodytalking, it's really a real
business.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Yes, it's really a real business, really a real
business.
Yes, it's really a realbusiness.
On the Alan Hughes front, wegot a bunch of projects that
we're working on Defiant Media.
Alan is a really good friendand a mentor and a brother
Working with Nelson George,currently on Great Day in Hip
Hop.
We're producing that withNelson and Alan and it's just

(01:00:19):
basic.
Nelson has all this amazingfootage from that day that photo
shoot in 1998 up in Harlem, youwere there that day both.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
of us.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
I was there that day.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
I snuck in the car.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So, and you know, definitelygot to get you to talk about it
as well.
You know, being a piece in themusic industry.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Love to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
But we just got a lot of cool projects.
But we you know I'm in thebusiness of doing things that's
going to continuously uplift theculture and the people and
educate the people and inspirethe people Because, at the end
of the day, I think that we areso cavalier but our voice is so
important to the global span ofhow music style culture affects

(01:01:05):
the world.
And I think it because it's us.
We don't really see how magicalit is Sometimes.
You know it's like we know itis, but do we really know?
You know, and I think the keyis owning that and having
ownership of that and being ableto continuously push that.

(01:01:26):
Who would have thought, whenyou look at these videos, these
little Asian kids breakdancingand rapping and freestyling and
shit that hip-hop from the Bronxwould have taken it that far?
You know what I mean Jay-Z's abillionaire.
You know what I mean Jay-Z's abillionaire.
You know what I mean.
Look at all that came fromhip-hop.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
All that came from hip-hop.
You know what I mean.
Hip-hop has single-handedlyaffected America's economy.
We affect the economy, so wegot to have a little more
ownership of that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Yeah, I agree.
Well, I you know we ain't gotto discuss it.
I agree a thousand percent, youknow yo.
Thank you for your time, mybrother man.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Thank you, man.
Listen this was.
This was fun.
Listen, you know, I've knownyou now at 30 years.
Yeah, it's been a long time.
Yeah, I was thinking when I wasdriving to the office.
I was like I met you when I wasaround 21, 22.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm 50 now,so that's almost 30 years.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Yeah, yeah, we've known each other a long time,
man, I've seen a lot of stuff.
A lot of stuff, a lot of NewYork stuff and a lot.
We could do this for five hoursif we wanted to easily, easily,
easily.
I feel like we skipped over somany things just so we don't
have the time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Oh, there's always a part two, there's always a part
two.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
We'll keep it going, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
But we appreciate it, man.
Thanks for all this mix andmaster, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
We appreciate you coming on and telling your story
, man, and I think it's going tobe another story that's going
to be very inspirational for thelisteners, because I think you
know my my goal in doing thisshow is to and we've talked
about this is to show people,All the people that I know
behind the scenes, yeah, to haveyou know that I have done and
I'm still doing things to, likeyou said, push the culture
forward.
You know we're behind thescenes.
You know you've done some stuffin front of the camera as well,

(01:03:25):
but for the most part we'rebehind the scenes.
So people don't always know ournames or our journeys but, like
today, you told, you know, youtold your journey from, like,
this little town in southcarolina.
You know living in la andworking with alan hughes, and
you know living in LA andworking with Alan Hughes, and
you know, and Pastor Mike, allthe things we talked about.
I think it's important forpeople to know this the culture,
this is a culture.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
You know, we got to continuously push the culture
and we got to continue tobelieve in ourself and believe
in our people.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Absolutely, Thank you man, I appreciate it, my man
Appreciate you.
You can catch Mixed andMastered podcast, spotify,
iheart or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend I'm
your host, jeffrey sledge.
Mixed and mastered is producedand distributed by merrick
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