Rob Markman

On this episode of Mixed and Mastered, we kick it with Rob Markman—Brooklyn-bred storyteller, journalist, and artist—as he rewinds to his roots in hip hop’s golden age. From bumping Ladi Dadi on cassette to catching inspiration from CL Smooth’s T.R.O.Y., Rob shares how the culture raised him and why storytelling remains the heartbeat of his music.

He opens up about navigating the grind—from freelancing for Vibe, Complex, and The Source to launching XXL’s digital presence and leveling up at MTV. With Bronx family roots that run deep—shoutout to his great uncle Willie Bobo and cousin Eric Bobo of Cypress Hill—Markman breaks down how legacy shaped his vision and fueled his path to becoming an artist in his own right.

We talk Genius, podcasting, media politics, and the pressure of public opinion—but more than that, we dive into what it means to keep hip hop honest. Whether he’s writing bars or crafting platforms, Rob stays focused on impact, mentorship, and building a future where artists can speak freely and fans can truly connect.

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Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on Mixed and Mastered Rob Markman.
From writing for the Source andXXL to interviewing legends
like Jay-Z, kendrick Lamar andMariah Carey at MTV, rob has
lived hip-hop from every angle,now running both Genius and
Worldstar Distribution, signingIce Spice, wynn and Overcast all

(00:21):
while still dropping his ownmusic and writing comic books
for DC and Marvel.
This is Mixed and Mastered withRob Markman.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,the podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
people who have shaped the soundof music.

(00:43):
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
All right, mixed and Masteredwith my man, rob Markman.

(01:05):
Excuse me, brooklyn's finest.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's love, man.
Yeah, how you doing, man?
Yeah, man, I'm doing great man,I'm doing real good today.
Man, I'm glad to be herespeaking with you.
Man, you know it's a certainpedigree that you know, when
you're in the presence of it's,just you know it just feel right
, you know yeah same to you, man, I really appreciate you being

(01:29):
here man, you know?

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Nah, absolutely man.
So let's start it for the topman.
Like I said, born and raised inBrooklyn, New York, BK, the
fourth largest city in New YorkState, I think, I think you guys
are bigger than Buffalo, andmaybe to say you guys are bigger
than Buffalo Might be the sameyou guys are.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Might be Definitely the coolest, though you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
He go with the boy he go right away, right away
starting up.
So talk to me about growing upin Brooklyn, man.
Talk to me about yourexperience growing up in
Brooklyn.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
It was amazing, man, I wouldn't trade it for anything
.
I was born december 30th 1979,so like literally an 80s baby,
like two days later, and boom.
The 80s are right here yeah.
So I was born in that era of of.
You know, when I'm stepping outmy house and starting to
realize the world around me atsix years old, seven years old

(02:22):
old, whatever it's like.
There's still graffiti on thetrain, yeah, people still
walking around with boom boxes.
It's just like the birth andthe explosion of hip hop and all
the elements Same, fromgraffiti to you still see B-Boys
.
There's still some remnants ofpark jams going on and stuff

(02:42):
like that.
And I grew up in Brooklyn.
But all of my family mygrandmother, my cousins, aunts,
uncles were all from the Bronxand my mom and my dad were from
the Bronx.
They just lived in Brooklyn.
It was also a lot of travelingfrom Brooklyn to the Bronx and
we might stop in Harlem to getsomething to eat.
So it was really just gettingthat whole New York experience

(03:03):
again.
In the 80s and 90s.
It was just wonderment justcoming outside of the crib and
seeing hip hop everywhere.
Really, just let me know what Iwanted to do in life.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
You know.
It's interesting, man, that yousay that, because I didn't know
about the Bronx part of yourfamily First meeting you.
Like you're a Brooklyn cat.
Right For New Yorkers there's acertain energy that comes with
being from one of the boroughs.
You can pick it up right away.
I can see a Queens girl fromthree miles down the road.
Man, that girl from Queens.
You know what I'm saying.
But now that you say thatyou've got like a Bronx-ish

(03:38):
energy as well, you're aBrooklyn guy but I see the Bronx
yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, a lot of people used to confuse me being from
the Bronx, oh, you from theBronx, nah.
But you know like we spent alot of time in South Bronx, of
course, grand Concourse, youknow.
My grandmother was on MorrisAve before, oh wow, right under
Yankee Stadium.
Oh yeah, yeah, had family inCo-op City, so going all the way
up to Co-op City, wow.
Oh yeah, yeah, had family inCo-op City, so going all the way
up to Co-op City, Wow.
So you know, we had family allover.

(04:07):
So it was a lot of time spentin the Bronx as well.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
That's cool man.
So let me ask a question Wasthere a?
Because in that era this is howyou kind of know the eras Was
there a particular DJ from likeBrooklyn that was like the big
DJ in your section was a?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
you know, because, even if it was a local guy
because a lot of times it'd belike you know DJs, you know,
yeah, flowers, or you know itdidn't have to be Herc or Flash
or one of those guys, it couldhave been like a local guy yeah,
for for us, I mean one for myblock, it was my man, kevin, and
I don't even know what he DJedaround on my best friend, damien
, his older brother, kevin, wasa DJ and mostly spun a lot of

(04:47):
reggae because I'm from FlatbushBrooklyn, so it's just West
Indian culture, and Kevin wasthe one who I don't even know
what his DJ's name is, but heused to borrow his microphone
and rap over instrumentals andtry to make own demo tapes and
just seeing him do his thingkind of turned him out A man.

(05:07):
There's another local DJ namedOS, from Washington, who was my
other best friend, was hiscousin Orlando Saba, and
actually he gave me my firsttechnique turntables and they
created a record when I was like15 years old.
So we looked up to him but asfar as like known people, us, it
was he probably and Mr C wasfrom Bed-Stuy, I wasn't from

(05:30):
Flatbush, but I mean Mr C wasprobably like the first cat to
me that I was like in terms ofDJs go, that it was like, oh, he
represents Brooklyn, like thatI recognized right and from
looking at, you know, in theback of um, you know he was on
the back of the big daddy canecover and they had a stat sheet,
the nasty African and they hadall of his stuff.

(05:51):
Then, from hearing him on theradio and just his voice and the
way he represented it.
So you know, there's definitelyguys that I came up with, who
are DJs, that I respected, thatthe world doesn't know, but,
being from Brooklynlyn, for meit was mr c, I'm from that era
and c was the one who whoembodied the whole borough for
me.
You know I'm saying so.
Rest in peace to mr c absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
She was a.
She was a good dude.
I liked him a lot.
Um, so tell me about how yourfirst sparklet for the music,
like I mean, you know, obviouslylike seeing it around, but
there was a, was there aparticular thing?
Who you know what, what kind ofset off to be like?
I really this is my this is meCouple of things.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
First of all, just being in school, six, seven
years old again, being in theschool, y'all going to the
school with Slick Rick it wasSlick Rick and Dougie it was
Lottie Dottie.
That was the learning all thewords to, and being very
deliberate.
Cause yo, when we go to school,like we used to rap it and we
used to have competitions of whocould get through, cause it's
just one long verse, like whocould spit the rhyme from

(06:51):
beginning to end and then whocould beat box, so like I
remember just being in theschoolyard just like rapping
Slick Rick.
So Slick Rick was was my.
Slick Rick was my first goat,before I knew what a goat was.
He was just my first favoriterapper.
And it's so interesting lookingback at it now because Lottie
Dottie, first of all, it's adirty song.
Nothing about anything SlickRick was doing.
That time was clean, but theway Children's Story like, the

(07:15):
way he presented it, it soundedso palatable for kids.
You know what I'm saying.
So that was the greatjuxtaposition in the artistry of
Slick Rick.
And then I remember writing thelyrics down in school to trying
to learn nice and smooth hip hopjunkies.
It was always just a song.
Whatever the song or the momentwas, it was like yo, you don't

(07:36):
know the lyrics to this If youcan't rap this at the lunch
table.
And then it transitioned in 92.
For me, I wrote my first rap toPete Rock and CL Smooth they
Reminisce Over you.
That was the first instrumentaland yo let me get my hands on
this and let me see what I coulddo.
And that was probably the firstrecord where I became really

(07:57):
enamored with songwriting.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Especially from a rap perspective, because that song
was so dope and obviously,obviously it was something about
that beat, just one of thegreatest hip hop songs of all
time.
But at a young age I was ableto recognize that CL and CL to
me, I think, is an amazing andunderrated rapper.
I don't think CL gets theflowers that he deserves for
being in pocket, like thepockets that he created.

(08:21):
The shit he was rapping aboutCL was rapping about Chris Style
and Fly, versace Silks a coupleof years before Big, a couple
of years before Jay, like CL,and that was that Mount Vernon
shit.
That was all Heavy D influence,because Heavy D was Fly too.
But going back to CL and thatTroy record, that was such a big
record and it was CL justtelling his story.

(08:41):
We didn't know any of thepeople he was talking about
besides Troy.
On the third, verse right.
But, yeah, I want to run my ownbusiness like my Aunt Joyce.
If we're talking about cars,uncle Sterling got the latest.
There was no reason for us tocare about that record because
of all the detail that he wentinto about his own family.

(09:02):
But there was a magic in thatrecord is that we can all change
the names.
I didn't have an Uncle Sterling,but I had an uncle like that.
It was just so relatable and itwas like yo, we shouldn't care
about this record because it'sso dialed in, why do we care
about it so much?
But it was the feeling that heemitted of telling his own story
that made us all relate andbeing like nah, I know exactly
what he's talking about, I knowexactly the type of people he's

(09:24):
talking about and I recognizedthat at a young age and I was
like damn, like even more sothan writing about how dope I am
, and those were my first rhymesanyway, about how dope I was
and how ill I was.
But it was really like yo, youcould really make somebody feel
something through these records,through these lyrics.
So, troy, was the first time Itook my hand at, like trying to
write something.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
So before we move on, I'm so glad you brought up
slick Rick because he'sdefinitely on my, my Rushmore
and I think it happened so longago.
But it's tragic that he onlybasically made one album because
he got into some legal issuesand he was never able to get
like as that first album is soincredible to me, I'm like what

(10:04):
would the second album have been?
He was like free and clear todo, like you said, the way he
rhymed and how visual it was andthe melodies and the nursery
rhyme things to it.
And you, like you could closeyour eyes and literally see it.
You could see Veronica Placeright near Children, like I
could see everything he talkedabout and like I could see I

(10:25):
could, you could see everythinghe talked about.
He, he influenced to me so manypeople, including biggie and
others, like with thevisualization he was.
Well, I don't say he was,because he's not, he's still
alive with it, god bless buthe's just um, amazing, um, quick
story, quick story before wemove on.
So in that era I was juststarting in the music business.
Um, so two things from thatsong from children's story.
I remember going to Bentley'sright.

(10:47):
How long ago this was.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
I heard about families.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
I'd never been to Bentley's but Friday night was
the night, friday night.
But Bentley's wasn't the night,saturday night too.
But Friday night was the night.
And I remember going to Bentleyand I think these girls had to
be the from Harlem or Queens.
They would fly.
It had the furs on.
And I remember when they put onChildren's Story, these three

(11:10):
or four girls they just yelledthat song all the way through,
like in the corner.
They knew every word.
Like you said, you had to knowevery word.
And I remember being like thisrecord is way bigger than I even
thought it was, because it's,you know, don't you dare laugh
Like everybody was yelling thesong and the second thing was um
, I used to run into eric sadlera lot at parties back then.
The legend.
We started, yeah, we startedcommunicating and you know,

(11:32):
talking and kicking it.
Could we see each other time?
Yo, what's up?
Erica?
And I remember I like pause, Iguess I cornered him and I was
like bro, tell me about slickrick?
And he broke it because youknow they, they have the bomb
squad produced Rick.
And he broke it because youknow the Bomb Squad produced
that album.
And he broke down everythinghow Rick rhymed and like his
style and like how he did it inthe studio.

(11:52):
He said Rick would like leavethese open parts.
He would like this is funny, sookay, take me back.
And then he would just fill inthese other parts and like he
would chop it up.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, but anyway I'm gonna.
This is about you.
I just I want to know that'snow.
This is about hip-hop man, it'sabout us like that's the beauty
of these conversations is is,yeah, we learn more about maybe
each other personally, but weuncover stories again that we
all relate to.
It's the troy thing.
It's like, okay, this might bemy story, but it is something
highly relatable to somebodyelse remembering the first time
they fell in love with help.
How about the first thing thatstruck them.
So I don't mind these tangentsat all, brother.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Like I think that's the beauty of these
conversations, and with Troy,funny shit, me and Cielo have
the same birthday, october 8th,and I was born in non Vernon.
Wow, I know, I know I was bornup the street from where they
shot the Like that's ColumbusAvenue.
I know that.
So, anyway, we'll talk foreverabout that.
So, anyway, back to you.
So college Tell me about yourcollege experience.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, my college experience was a lot like my
high school experience.
Man, I'm from Brooklyn, newYork, so I went to Brooklyn Tech
in high school and then I wentto Hunter College.
In college I never left thecity.
Yeah, you know I never had thedesire to leave New York.
You know I never had the desireto leave New York.
We're leaving high school.
All my friends.
They might go to a SUNY, somemight go to HBCUs and they leave
in the city.

(13:10):
And you know, I felt like thebeginning of Doggy Style you
going to give all this up.
You got a flat screen TV, areyou crazy?
But I just had no desire.
It never crossed my mind that Iwould ever leave New York.
So, going to Hunter, I wascommuting on the train, just
like I was going to high schooland I was working and I was

(13:35):
living on my own.
I had left my parents' crib atthat time.
Oh yeah, you were on space bythat point.
Yeah, me and my now wife movedin together.
I left by the time I was 18, Ileft my crib, um and just so.
I'm holding down the job in themail room and I'm going to
college.
I'm, I'm, I'm a media studiesmajor.
So I'm very much in the media,um, and I'm still trying to make

(13:59):
music happen as as like arapper.
So I'm doing open mics at theNew Yorican Poet Cafe, I'm in
the studio, I'm in front of Hot97 handing out mixtapes to Mr C,
to Angie, to Kanye and Raekwonwhen they would come do
interviews, whoever would comethrough, and so I'm doing that
whole thing.
But I was a media studies majorbecause I liked media.

(14:22):
I don't know, I was buyingSource magazines and XXL
magazines and love film.
I took it because I liked it.
I never knew I could have acareer in it.
I never envisioned my careertaking off in media.
I was just doing the thingsthat I loved and I wasn't
thinking too much about where itwas going to lead me and little
did I know at the time I waspreparing myself for a career in

(14:44):
music on the media side, and itwas just, really just because I
enjoyed media.
But yeah, I'm in college justtrying to figure it out, man.
You know, again it took me sixyears to graduate college
because again, I'm working fulltime.
Like sometimes you couldn't getthe classes you get.
I failed a couple of classes,so my trajectory wasn't like
that of a lot of my friends andmy peers and a lot of people.

(15:06):
You know they would kind oflaugh at me or dance.
Are you still in school, dan?
What you going to do?
Oh, like where you want to work, like you know what I'm saying,
like this and that, andeverybody is maybe have a path
set.
And I had my path set, but Ijust kept following my heart.
You know what I'm saying andlet me go.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
So so I read you.
You did a lot of free.
We're going to get to theartist part.
Don't think I'm trying to skip.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
No, no, no, no, no, no yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
But I read you did a lot of uh, a lot of freelancing,
at first for no bread, justkind of honing your craft.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
And, like you said, doing actually getting paid for
a lot of it.
So so I graduate college in 03.
Okay, so I'm in college from 97to 03, so it took me about six
years.
And then in 2004, um, a brotherby the name of tim hotep, who
was an old friend of mine, wewent to high school together, um

(15:57):
, really really close friends.
Um, you know, especially duringthose years and he was working
at Complex Magazine when Complexfirst started as a print
magazine and they were lookingfor writers and we went to
school together.
He knew my passion for hip hop,he knew I knew a lot about hip
hop, he knew I could write and,you know, I guess he just wanted

(16:17):
to put his man on, to give hisman a shot, and he gave me a
shot and I never let it go.
My first album review wasJadakiss, the Kiss of Death
album.
Wow, it was this ComplexSimplicity.
It was both in the same issuewith that XXL, and I got paid
for that, okay, and so I'mworking full time in the mail
room and then now I'mfreelancing and then I'm getting
paid a couple hundred dollarsto do album reviews for Complex.

(16:38):
So after Complex, the Sourcecalled Vibe Magazine, called
Eric Parker, gave me.
My second it was a ghost face.
It was the Pretty Tony album,so I'm reviewing that.
Is that the album with Run yeahRun was on that, so I wrote
that review for the Vibemagazine.
Eric Parker was the editor.

(17:01):
Taught me a tough lesson then,but a great lesson in just
writing and stuff like that.
So I'm writing.
What did he teach you?
Enough, I guess it just wasn't.
This was the third thing I everwrote.
My first two I knocked it outthe park.
It was good.
The third one, I guess Eric waslike man, this need to work.

(17:23):
But he was also on that tightdeadline.
So I remember picking up thevibe issue, looking at it, my
name is on it, but I was likedamn, these ain't all my words.
It kind of got rewrote but meand Eric never really talked
about.
He, just did what he had to dowith the piece to turn in his
deadline.
But me being me and wanting tosoak up game, I wasn't mad at

(17:43):
him, I was disappointed.
I was like damn, damn, maybeI'm not as good as I thought I
was.
You know what I'm saying.
I was feeling myself at the twojoints.
So I took what was printed inthe magazine and I took the copy
that I turned into Eric and Ijust compared the two.
I took the copy that I turnedinto Eric and I just compared
the two.
Okay, what did he change?
Where can I strengthen up at?
I took lessons everywhere Icould get it Started writing for

(18:04):
the source.
That was the part where it waslike writing for free because
this is when the source, theBenzino they made zero as it's
winding down the bankruptcy.
So I was writing for the sourceand man them checks wasn't
coming, I wasn't getting paidafter a while.

(18:24):
So they racked up.
I racked up quite a bit, nevergot paid for.
I got paid for some of thesource stuff, but it was like
$10,000 worth of shit that Ididn't get paid for and it was a
lot of money at the time.
Yeah, shit, it's a lot of moneytoday.
Yeah, yeah, that's real bread.
But that experience waspriceless.
So I say I never internedanywhere, but I tell people all
the freelancers for the sourcewas my internship.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
So wait, so was there .
Is there a particular storythat you wrote in that era that
you're like super proud of, likeit's something that you wrote,
that's like you know, man, Ikilled this.
And the source era, wow, thewriting of that era of writing.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
So let's know all of it.
Yeah Right, for Don Diva a lottoo.
I never want to forget Don Diva.
Man, tiffany and Kevin Chazreally put me on, gave me my
opportunities to write coverstories when everybody was
writing album reviews andeverybody told me there was
people in the business who werea little more stuck up Like yo
don't go write for Don Diva.
That's not real journalism, heyman journalism, hey man, that

(19:18):
Don Diva experience the wayTiffany and Kevin took care of
me, the way they regarded me,the way they nurtured me, the
way we was really in the streetstalking to real people, it was
incredible.
A lot of that made me who I was.
So shout out to Tiffany andKevin for the opportunity.
Shout out to Don Diva for theopportunity.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
They don't get a lot of credit, man, during that era
I got pretty tight with the guysfrom feds.
You know he's all living uptown, he's all in harm.
So same kind of energy, likeyou know, like those magazines
for those who don't know, fedsand don diva were magazines that
were street driven.
For lack of a betterdescription, I can think about
guys who maybe you know, were inthe streets and tried to who,

(19:56):
guys who just came home, womenwho maybe you know cleaned up,
people cleaned up, maybe sheowns a beauty parlor now or
whatever it was.
But like the stories werereally compelling because these
are like you said, these arelike from this is literally from
the ground up.
You know there's no airs and itwas very and, like you said,
the people were really cool.

(20:16):
You know, I'm saying nobodyever treated me funny or
something like Matter of fact.
Once they knew I was cool withthose guys, it was love, it was
all love.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I think people were intimidated by the access that
they used to get.
But the fact of the matter isis that hip hop and so much of
the rappers were basing theirlyrics off of these real life
street stories.
So Don Diva Feds says yo well,let's talk to the real people,
let's get kind of the real storyand based off of Kevin's

(20:44):
history and and you know, Idon't know too much about the
group who started feds, but youknow, kevin has a real history
that he's talking about and hewrote a book or made a lot of
sense, and I think a lot ofpeople in the industry were
intimidated by that and the runthat they had and the power that
they had, man, but they, theyaccepted me, um, and they they
took me under the wing.
I learned a lot.
So it was amazing.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
But tell me, is there one I don't?
I hate to use the word crazy, Idon't like that word, but is
there one kind of spicy storywith writing for don diva that
you had to go meet somebody inthe block or whatever you know,
and again, no, no, don'tincriminate nobody, don't name
it, just like you know, becauseit was a different energy.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Not really, because they didn't always.
They also knew I was the musicguy, so I was the bridge between
, like street and music.
Right, I was working on a BMFstory for them Wow, when, at the
time when everybody was gettingrounded up.
So I think I might've got theassignment before the
indictments came out, but rightafter I forget the exact.

(21:44):
But I was working on a BMFstory and not just interviewing
people, but doing realjournalism, research for people
who remember the LexisNexisdatabase and looking up arrest
records, court records, localarticles from Detroit newspapers
about things I still have.

(22:05):
I got to find it.
I still have the folder ofresearch that I was doing was
like this and working on thisBMF story, and then one day they
was like we're going to killthis story.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
I think we're going to chill on that.
We're going to chill on this.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
That was crazy.
I did, and it might have beenthe first If it wasn't the first
.
It was right around that one.
We're going to chill on this,but that was crazy.
I did, and it might have beenthe first If it wasn't the first
.
It was right around that time.
But Irv Gotti I interviewed.
Rest in peace.
Irv Gotti and Chris Gottiinterviewed them right after
they beat their case.
Oh wow, murder in case.
So you know, I was drivingaround with Irv all night and

(22:35):
just asking him all types ofquestions and stuff like that.
So I was particularly proud ofthat story, working on that
story for Don Diva and gettingthe chance to do that.
So, yeah, I was proud of that.
Other stories from that erathat I was proud of Rick Ross I
did a Rick Ross showing prooffor XXL in 2006.
This was before Port of Miamicame out.

(22:56):
That was a big article for mebecause I believed in Ross.
Then everything Ross said Iremember that night and in that
article this is before the firstalbum he had just signed to Def
Jam.
I think he was in New York andhe had just signed his deal
because he was talking to meabout meeting LA Reid for the
first time, and all of this andeverything Ross said that he was

(23:16):
going to do in the musicindustry.
That night, when I was in hishotel room and we were doing
this interview, he accomplished.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
And so I was proud of that article too, because I
felt like I captured exactly whoRoss was and what he was
setting up to do, and I feellike a lot of that came to
fruition.
Wow, what else in that time?
Wrote an article on Plies thatI was real proud, real, real
proud of.
Um, there's a bunch of stuff,man.
It was a whole bunch of stuff.
Um, you know, I I'll findthings um, anniversaries will

(23:49):
come up Like, like the BeanieSeagulls becoming, I think, just
celebrating the anniversary.
And I wrote that album reviewfor one of the magazines and
that like people posting onlinelike, oh shit, rob wrote this.
So, um, also during that time Iwas writing under a pen name.
This was funny.
Uh, 50 has beef with the sourceat this time.
He's not fucking with Benzino,cause of the M and M thing and

(24:10):
whatever.
But the source still needed.
You know they wanted to stillreview G unit albums Like the G
unit is the hottest shit in theindustry.
But they couldn't go to thelistenings, the labels wouldn't
let these albums available tothem for the Lloyd Banks album,
the Young Buck albums, you knowwhat I'm saying, things of that
nature.
So I was a freelancer, I wasn'tnecessarily just writing for

(24:32):
the source.
I would get access to thesealbums through Interscope and be
able to review these albums forthe source, and I would just do
it under a pen name so Iwouldn't get in trouble.
They found out I was writing itfor the source.
They won't fuck with me anymore,so I was still writing G-Unit
stuff for the source and to thesource's credit and to the
editorial staff's credit, theydidn't have a beat with G-Unit,
they were all fans.

(24:53):
Whatever was going on withBenzino and all of that, they
were just like, and all of that,they were just like, man, we
just want to cover this music.
So nobody ever asked me toslant my review a certain way or
anything like that when it cameto the stuff.
So that was cool.
So I never got paid for it, butthat was cool.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
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(25:40):
journey today.
And now back to our show.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Before we move forward to your artist thing and
some other stuff, pleasemention your uncle and your
cousin.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Oh yeah, so my uncle technically my great uncle, my
grandmother's brother, this wassomething that you know.
Music has been in my family,but my great uncle is Willie
Bobo is is is a famous Latinjazz musician who has played
with all of the great, I meanTito Puente, dizzy Gillespie.

(26:09):
I remember one time beingsomewhere I think we were on
vacation somewhere and we werestaying in the same hotel as
Dizzy Gillespie.
Wow, and I was a kid then andmy mom walks up to him and says
yo, I'm Willie's niece, and soDizzy just shows mad love.
I'm like seven or eight, so Ididn't really.

(26:31):
I knew Dizzy Gillespie from theCosby show, from the episode
when he was on the Cosby showand he blows up his cheeks.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
So I'm like, oh, that's the guy from the Cosby
show.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
That's crazy.
You know I'm not.
And then, obviously, dizzyGillespie plays the sax yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Greg, he didn't play the sax.
I always mess with Greg when Isee him and say that.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
And then.
So I remember being 78 yearsold, like me, and Dizzy
Gillespie was like super cool,but it was the admiration that
all these OGs have for my uncleand what he was doing.
So Willie Bobo is my uncle, mygrandmother's brother, but he
passed away.
I was like three when he passedaway.
I don't know if I ever met him.
I don't remember meeting him,but I've always just had his
picture hanging on the wall inthe house and in my

(27:10):
grandmother's crib, his recordsalways played.
And then his son, eric Bobo, ismy cousin.
He always lived on the WestCoast.
We lived on the East Coast.
He would come by every once ina while but he had been playing
since he was a kid.
So he was always playing Hisfather.
Since five, six years old Ericwas playing live gigs.

(27:32):
But when he starts to get intoa teenager and start coming of
age now he's touring with theBeastie Boys and then he joined
Cypress Hill.
He's an official member ofCypress Hill.
He's not part of the band.
Muggs took a step back.
This is around the time whenMuggs after the first album,
when Muggs didn't want to tour.
I guess and I'm not sure thepolitics around that but Eric is

(27:54):
touring with them, but alsomade an official member of
Cypress Hill.
I mean, I remember watching himthe night this is my cousin.
It was like, oh, they about tobe on SNL and the night that
they light up the joint and nowthey're playing from SNL the
funky.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Cypress Hill, my first rap concert ever was a
Cypress Hill concert.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
You know what I'm saying, so that was highly
influential for me.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Cypress is one of my favorite groups.
Yeah, groups, yeah, I mean theyin my opinion, very underrated,
even though they've had masssuccess, and I still like they
don't get mentioned enough to me.
Yeah, yeah, they were what theydid.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
And even for me just bias aside, right Cause
obviously my cousin is a part ofit, so I'm a huge fan.
But I was a fan cause he wasn'twith them for the first album
officially.
It wasn't till black sundaydrop that he joined the group.
I copped the first album inreal time as a kid because just
cypress hill was dope and thenso they was already.
I was bumping that first album.

(28:47):
Then the second album came outand actually, and then my cousin
was like oh yeah, we're comingto new york, we're touring.
I'm like what?
Like yeah, no, no, I misscypress hill.
I'm like this crazy, I wasalready fucking with him, you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're amazing, um.
So let's talk a little bitabout your um, your your career
as an as an artist.
You're still making records,sometimes still putting stuff
out, you know, uh, independently.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
So just talk a little a little bit about that I mean,
look, my, my whole thing waswhen I since I was a kid, you
know, since c Smoove and PeteRock I wanted to rap, I wanted
to be an artist and so Cyphers,battles, battles and Fat Beats
Shout Out to Destroy.
Destroy just posted likefootage of me battling when I
was like 17 years old, and FatBeats like real DNA in this shit

(29:31):
, doing open mics at New YoricanPoet Cafe.
My first studio session everwas playing Pat um, who went on
to do shit with good music.
This is before good music.
Yeah, he produced my firstjoint.
I hope he never releases it.
It never needs to see the lightof day is terrible.
But so I've always just had apassion to do music.

(29:54):
The media stuff took off firstand this is how I actually get
paid and make money.
So, and I love media too, but Iwas doing both for a while and
and I'm just happy doing musicto express myself.
And you know, now we're up tothe blog era and I'm on the
blogs.
I got records on that right andtwo dope boys and you know, I'm
saying like you know, and it'scool and I'm happy, but then

(30:16):
came a point where I had to makea decision because I'm working
with XXL and they're like it was.
The way it was put to me islike oh, they see this as a
conflict of interest and, man,if you don't stop rapping,
they're going to let you go.
In my mind I was like I get howit could be a conflict of
interest, but I wasn't doingthat wrong.
It wasn't like I was tradingfeatures for spots in the
magazine.

(30:37):
Yeah.
So I had to make a choice atthat time and I had two young
kids.
I'm like, well, I can't go backhome and tell them yo, daddy, I
want to be a rapper.
So I got fired from my job.
You know what I'm saying?
That was irresponsible.
I just did it on my own.
I didn't put nothing out foryears and years and years.
And then, once my media careergot to the point, you know, I

(31:00):
turned around in 2007,.
Rest in peace to my brotherHovane.
Yes, he was like yo, you know,we could put something out right
, like you want to put thisrecord out, like we could put
some shit out.
And I was like, nah, no, Ican't because I'm in media.
And then I looked around and Iwas that genius.

(31:24):
At the time they were a littlemore understanding.
They, they got it and theyweren't in full support of it.
And so, yeah, I put officially,put my first album out in 2017.
Man, rest in peace.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
The whole thing, yeah , congratulations man, thank you
, so talk to I was.
That's funny.
I'm glad you brought up,because my next question was
tell, tell me about the XXLexperience.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
It was great working at XXL, man.
I learned a lot.
I got there right after, likeimmediately after Elliot Wilson
was fired and that whole drama,oh wow.
The funny thing is that Elliotcalled me because at first I was
working at scratch magazine.
So I left the mailroom and I'mworking at scratch magazine.

(32:02):
Scratch magazine, for those whodon't remember, was the sister
magazine under double excel, andscratch magazine was to focus
on the djs and the producers.
Yep, when he brought me intoscratch, they said listen man,
this thing is on its last legs.
We're really trying to savethis mag, but it might not last
another three months, so wewe're going to hire you.
The job is let's turn this shitaround.
They couldn't turn it around.

(32:23):
The magazine went under and Iwas let go and Elliot was like
yo, as soon as something opensup at XXL, I'm going to give you
a call.
I'm like all right, but I'mstill working, I'm hustling, I'm
doing me.
Three months later he's like yo, I got a spot for you, let's
meet on Monday.
Wow, I'll tell you all about it.
That same Monday he got fired,but Elliot, I always say, kept

(32:45):
my name in the air or something,because a couple of weeks after
they still needed to fill theslot.
Plus, now they had aneditor-in-chief slot they needed
to fill.
So I got hired at SSL.
Vanessa Satin was the one thathired me.
Okay, daytuan was theeditor-in-chief for a while, but
mostly the years that I wasthere worked under Vanessa.

(33:06):
So those were the years whenthe freshman covers really took
off.
So I was there at the groundfloor for that freshman cover,
like the one with Mickey Fax andCuddy and Asher Roth and Wale.
Then we did the next one withNipsey Hussle and Rest in Peace
and Jake Hole and Big Sean andFreddie Gibbs, and then did the
one after that with Kendrick andRest in Peace, mac Miller and
Big Crid and Meek Mill andYellow Wolf was on that cover,

(33:27):
much people's on that cover.
So I had kind of didrefreshment covers with them.
It was cool.
I got there, I started as theassistant music editor and by
the time I left I was theco-deputy editor, so just right
under the editor-in-chief.
Oh wow, it was tough.
It was tough but definitelyunderpaid tough.
But I learned a lot, man.

(33:48):
That's really kind of.
Where I made a name for myselfwas at XXL.
So I'm grateful for thatexperience and everything.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
All right, I'm going to ask you the same kind of
question again.
Any spicy story for XXL era?

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Again, you don't have to say names, you don't have to
incriminate nobody.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
I don't want to get nobody in trouble.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
I'm trying to think there's plenty.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
That's why I asked it Damn, what can I talk about?
You know what I didn't like?
There's a lot of shit, butthere was a Rick Ross cover
where he was wearing some fakeLouis Vuitton glasses or some
modified Louis Vuitton glasses.
I remember this.
Yeah, even in the story Ross isa big guy.

(34:34):
So even in the story the writerwent with him to, he was going
shopping or whatever.
So he's buying like silkVersace shirts.
But Ross is so big he had tobuy two of the same shirt
because they didn't fit it, theydidn't make it in his size, and
then he had to take two of thesame shirt, take it to Taylor
who was stitching together andmake something.
So he was modifying all of thishigh-end stuff.

(34:56):
Right, and on the cover he'swearing Versace glasses.
That I think the base model wasreal and they just modified it
to fit his face.
They might have tricked it outand added some on it.
You know, bust it down, orsomething like that.
And Louis Vuitton have written aletter to XXL Like I don't know

(35:20):
if they were going to sue orwhatever, but basically wanted
us to print a retraction orsomething or somehow say we
don't stand by counterfeits orwhatever.
And we kind of threw Ross underthe bus, damn.
And I wasn't with that from thebeginning.
I didn't understand in my youngmind.
I'm like, well, again thinkingabout hip hop, thinking about
how much power we give to thesebrands like Louis Vuitton.
Yeah, there'll be Louis Vuitton.

(35:41):
They'll still make moneywithout hip hop.
But it's like fam.
You know how we elevated thisshit.
And Louis Vuitton don't spend adollar in advertising with XXL
or anybody in our culture.
Why are we picking LouisVuitton's side over Rick Ross?
But we did.
And the next issue, we had toprint a thing of saying hey, you
know whatever we didn't knowand we didn't.

(36:02):
I don't think anybody on thestaff knew that they weren't
like real glasses or whatever,but just how, we don't support
counterfeit shit.
So we got put under pressure byLouis Vuitton.
I thought that shit was whack.
I thought we should have stoodwith Ross that.
You know, freshman cover shitwas always cool.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
It was always cool to see those Was there anybody
that you guys picked for thefreshman cover that didn't do it
for some reason, like didn'tshow up or turned it down or
whatever.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Oh, yeah, I believe, if I'm not mistaken.
I'm almost, I'm like 98% sure.
I got to ask State Tuan aboutthis, but I see he was the NN
Chief at this time.
But we wanted Jay Electronicafor the cover for the one with
Ash Roth Wale, bob Cuddy, MickeyFax.
Jay Electronica was invited tothat cover, I believe, but I

(36:53):
believe this was not long afterKatrina.
I'm not sure what his reasonsfor not doing it was, but for
whatever reason they they, theydidn't do it Wow.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Wow yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, I think Ace Hood ended up getting that spot
and Ace was a controversialfreshman because he didn't fit
in with the rest of them.
They were all kind of blog eraand Ace was maybe more of a
traditional sign to a recordlabel, kind of blown up through
the record label system, andsome people rejected that.

(37:28):
But I love that Ace Hood pickman.
Ace Hood was, I mean, he hadplenty of.
He had, like I don't, he hadgold singles.
He had records that wereabsolutely moving and the
Freshman Cover was before a lotof those records.
I think he had Cashflow andthat was it when he did the
Freshman Cover.
But Ace went on to really havesome success, be influential in

(37:49):
the way you know.
His flow was something that wascopied a couple of times and
Ace could fucking rap.
Yeah, and Ace could rap.
So I think Jay Electronicawould have been legendary.
I wasn't mad at Ace Hood.
Okay, you know what else?
Who else didn't make it or whoelse turned it down?
Yeah, that was the one Iremember.

(38:09):
That was the one that sticksout Okay.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
So after XXL you went to Genius, I went to MTV.
After XXL, MTV.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Okay, and what were you doing in MTV?
I was the hip hop news editoris what I came in as.
So I was doing writing on thedigital news side.
And how was that experience?
Yeah, mtv News, that was greatbecause look at this time, vibe
magazine had folded and maybethey just came back.
The source wasn't what it was.
Print took a hit.

(38:38):
Print was dying.
Late in my XXL years, there wasthis thing for print writers.
At the time, there was a stigmaagainst online journalism.
It didn't feel like the samequality and, quite frankly, it
wasn't.
Online was built for speed.
So we would write an articleand it would go through a copy
editor, it would go through afact checker, it would go

(39:00):
through several rounds of edit.
You would really curate thatthing ready for print.
And the internet was built forspeed.
There were a lot of writers whojust were unwilling or unable to
see, or unable just to make thetransition to a digital world.
And in my last days at XXL, Istarted working on the website
more.

(39:20):
I started, you know, beforeanybody was hiring a social
media manager.
I was like I was the one whoactually started the XXL Twitter
, like I started the account andthe way we did it because
nobody had a position in theirorganization for a social media
manager.
You weren't hiring somebody tomanage your social media, like

(39:40):
that.
I remember I was like, okay,we're going to start this
account and every week adifferent editor has to fill it
with content and just tweetstuff out.
So week one is me, week two iswhoever, week three is whoever,
and we were working cyclesbecause it was really nobody's
job but we felt like we needed apresence.
But I started seeing digitalbeing important and when the MTV

(40:03):
opportunity came, shout out toRamon Dukes, ramon Dukes, me and
him started talking and hebrought me over to MTV.
So I'm doing writing, I'm doingjournalism, it's just digitally
, it's just not print anymore.
So I went over there for thatand about two or three weeks
into me being there, I didn'thave plans of being on camera.
I didn't think that was a thingthat was going to happen.

(40:24):
And Sway kind of was like yo, Ididn't know Sway before that.
But once me and Sway got toknow each other about two or
three weeks, he was like yo,you're going to get
opportunities.
I'm not going to say when orwhere, but he was like man, I
like you.
You're going to be good oncamera.
We're going to find anopportunity for you.
Just be ready.
And then I started developingthat side.

(40:44):
So MTV hired me to do fourarticles a day.
So MTV hired me to do fourarticles a day.
I had to write four articles aday for the website.
Okay, they didn't have to beoriginal.
I can interview somebody and doan original news piece.
I can do aggregate reporting Icould do.
But the, the, the.
The quota was four a day.
I was doing seven to eightarticles a day.
I was on my fourth article bylunchtime.

(41:04):
Wow, man, I just fit, fit intoa groove.
We had such a great team and itjust became so easy.
I'm like, nah, I'm like man,I'm going to pump this shit out.
So it was partly my work ethic,just kind of my demeanor around
and whatever.
But I did very well at MTV, man.
A lot of people really reallysupported me over there, and
Sway and Ramon Dukes, whitney,Gail, benta was part of it.

(41:27):
You've been on the show, I'vebeen on the show, rebecca Thomas
, like they really really set meup for success.
But Sway helped put me in frontof that camera and show me a
whole different side to this andopen up a whole different side
of my career, which I'm gratefulfor Wow.
Wow, and how long were you atMTV For four years.
I was there from 2011 to 2015.

(41:47):
You was there for a little run.
Yeah, we had a run.
Man, I was doing Mixtape Daily,something that was created by
Ramon and Shaheen Reid.
I was carrying on a lot oflegacy that they.
I just took the ball and ranwith it when it was my turn.
We had a show called Rap FixLive that I was helping to

(42:08):
produce and I had some on-airtime with man.
I was really like shadowingwith Sway.
We were doing Hottest MCs atthat time, so that was cool.
Oh, with those roundtables,yeah, yeah, I remember those
People were controversial aboutthat.
People hated it.
They loved it and they hated it, man.
They loved it more than theyhated it, man.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
I was in that category, love hate.
I'd be screaming at the TV likewhat the fuck?
But I mean, it made good TV.
It made for good viewing,that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, it made for good TV.
My thing was I could stand onanything I said, right or wrong,
I'll stand on it.
I remember one time one year,french Montana didn't make it.
People thought French deservedto make it that year and he
didn't make it.
People thought French deservedto make it that year and he
didn't make it.
And the day it aired, the sameday, french had a show at SOB's.
So I go to the show because I'ma French Montana fan.

(42:59):
I said, man, we're going tocheck this show out.
People looked at me like and Iwalked in dolo.
Everybody looked at me like wesee the ghost.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
I'm like fuck that, but it was all by the end of the
night, it was all love.
It wasn't no, it wasn't nosituation, you know, I think I
think even when people didn'tmake it, I was grateful to get
the respect of people, even whenthey didn't make it, because

(43:30):
because I gave respect, itwasn't about shitting on people.
To me, I remember one time whenyou had Pusha T didn't make it,
and this is how me and Pushakind of really got cool.
Pusha didn't make it and he wasoverseas in the UK.
I think he might've been withSemtex, Okay, Doing an interview
.
Semtex, if I got it wrong, mybad, but they were advocating
for him.
Yo man, you didn't make thathigh to some Cs.
How could you not make that?

(43:50):
God, those guys over there arebozos Da da, da, da, da, da da.
So we started getting this Paulfor the course it comes and
Pusha, during his interview, waslike hold up.
He was like, yeah, I didn't makeit and, yes, I still respect

(44:16):
their position and their opinionand what they stand on.
Yes, they got it wrong, but,man, I still got the ultimate
respect for them and I was like,dang, he ain't had to do that.
Yeah, he ain't had to do thatat all and that.
That.
That that kind of like reallysold to me because you see what
media is now is is, hey, say,the nastiest thing about

(44:37):
somebody to get clicks.
I could say I don't likesomething or I don't agree with
something, or this is myposition or something, and I
don't got to be disrespectfulabout it.
You know I'm saying because, atthe end of the day, I, I don't
live solely online.
We are of the culture.
Jeff, you be outside, youtalking about Bentleys, you have
a DNA, you have a history inthis shit.
You go outside in this shit,you live and breathe in this

(44:58):
shit.
It's a certain way to move andwe can still have our opinions,
and I most certainly have myopinion, but I'll be outside.
You know what I'm saying and Iget respect wherever I go,
whatever city, man, and and sothat was just validation for me
to keep doing my thing and keeptreating this thing with love
and the respect that it deserved.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
I see I um, we ain't got to get deep into it, but I
definitely see the the vitriolfor lack of a better term.
You always get about theKendrick and Drake.
Yeah, people think, yeah,people thinking you're picking
sides and it's not.
I see, but again, that thatcomes from the new wave of
social media and media where itsays it's gotta, gotta go at

(45:36):
people crazy, you gotta saycrazy things and you gotta, you
know, try to get people toretweet.
It's like it's annoying, but Iunderstand, it's the way of the
world.
So I'm not trying to say yeah,I'm, I'm, but it's annoying
sometimes because someone likeyourself, like you said, you
know in some cases, myself aswell as other people, we have

(45:56):
like real knowledge of thisstuff.
You know from the history of itand from you know we have
people that we can call like Imight have inside information.
So we have a different skew onhow things go.
So we have a different skew onhow things go.
And so when you, when you, youknow, obviously only give away
your inside information, butwe're telling people that you

(46:17):
really understand this shit, andthen you're like talking to
some kid, respectfully, fromkansas city, who's 18, and they
trying to tell you and say, bro,like what are we doing, bro,
you know.
So why don't you, why don't youjust be quiet and listen
sometimes, instead of alwayshaving to come back?

Speaker 2 (46:33):
That's just where we're at now, where everybody
has a voice, everybody can geton camera and it's not even.
It's just.
It is what it is now.
You can't put the lid back onPandora's box.
Yeah, with the Kendrick andDrake thing, hey, man, maybe I
know some stuff that y'all don'tknow and I do On both sides
Right, and there's certainthings that I haven't said.
People get mad at me on bothsides too, because they'll be

(46:56):
like just admit it, becauseevery time I make a video, I'm
like yo, me personally, not Like.
Us is an amazing song.
I think it's the greatest disssong of all time.
At this point, I think this isthe greatest battle that we've
ever seen.
At this point.
Love the record.
I personally do not think Drakeis a pedophile.
It's a great rap lyric.
But I get Kendrick fans mad atme.

(47:18):
Look at all the evidence.
How do you not what evidence.
And I'm just like hey, that'scool for you guys to do.
I will say Drake lost.
I will say Kendrick got thebetter record.
Kendrick had the betterstrategy, the better lyrics.
I'm not going to call this mana pedo.
You know what I'm saying,because it's cool to do it in a
rap battle, but I'm not battlinghim.

(47:38):
Let me not say it's cool to doAnything goes in a rap battle.
In the lyrics.
Anything goes, man, but I'm notgoing to get up here and say it
To that point of them notunderstanding the game.
You know we talk about this alot.
It comes up a lot with likeDochi and it was like oh, she's
an industry plan.
And it was like you guys don'tknow the way the music thing

(48:00):
works.
Like industry plan is somethingthat we put on where we don't
like an artist and what, what?
What is TDE and Capitolsupposed to do?
Not market Doshi's record, notput her in a position.
But then the other side of itis when you have an artist that
you really love, that's signedto a label and it doesn't work,
let's say for somebody like andGod bless her because she's made

(48:21):
it work independently on herown, somebody like Tinashe Okay,
who everybody loves, iseverybody's a fan of, but when
it doesn't work on RCA, rca, oh,it's the label's fault.
They didn't do enough.
The label failed her.
When, when it, when it doesn'twork, the label failed her.
When it, when it works, oh,they're an industry plan.
It was like guys like, sometimesthey're like yo, just be a fan,

(48:43):
like, like, like the insidebaseball is not really working,
like, let's just talk about themusic.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Be a fan yeah, yeah, so wait.
So the podcast that I was on,that you did for a little bit
with the r&b stuff, what was thename of it?
It was for the right.
Was that for the record?

Speaker 2 (48:57):
red light special was red light special.
Yeah, man, yeah, that was therecord.
You guys are headed.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
You guys are headed headed to curve with that, I
feel, because you guys arediscussing, um, a lot of r&b
music.
I had a great time being onthere, by the way, and it's
almost like, yeah, you were justahead of the curve, because I
think if you were doing itcloser to now, with all the R&B
stuff that's come out and R&B iskind of catching a wave now of
new stuff it's kind of like youguys are just ahead of the curve

(49:25):
.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
But it was a great podcast.
Yeah, thank you for that.
Shout out to Kristen, who is myco-host.
Kristen Carl, I fucked that up.
I just had so much on my plateI just couldn't handle it.
You know that was coming out onLoudspeakers Network, so rest
in peace.
To Reggie and Chris Morrow theygave us that opportunity to do

(49:46):
the podcast.
Chris used to tell me all thetime yo you just ahead of the
curve.
You know, I started getting tothe point too where I wasn't
like seeing the results that Ithought I should be getting for
what I was putting into it, andnot even money.
I'm just talking about traffic.
And Chris is like.
Chris used to tell me all thetime, and Reggie too yo you
ahead of the curve.
There's nothing out here likeit, just stick with it.

(50:07):
And I just had a lot on myplate.
I had that.
I had just joined Genius at thetime, so it was a new job, I was
getting used to newresponsibilities.
Then I had signed a deal to putout my first album.
It was a lot going on and I hadto pick and choose.
And then the other mistake thatI made is I built that podcast
to be based on getting a guest,so I will have people cancel all

(50:31):
the time and then when theycancel, then you don't have a
show.
Yes, I should have been moreforward thinking of, and more
belief in, myself and Kristenthat, hey, we're the
personalities and maybe with acouple of other friends, can
kind of really talk about thismusic in a meaningful way.
That way we don't need a guestto show up.
I just didn't have theforesight.
If I could, get a do over.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
I would love to learn , you learn, and maybe you'll do
it again in the later day.
You know, talk to me aboutgenius.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah, man, I joined genius in 2015.
Um shit, it'll be 10 years inAugust that I've been there.
It's the longest I've ever beenanywhere.
I've never been anywhere,started out as the head of
artist relations.
Right now I'm the VP of contentand music.
Wow, you know, if I'm beingreal, genius was a different
company before I came in andafter I came in In which way?

(51:20):
Tell me, culturally.
You know the guys who startedit and they have since sold the
company Tom and Alon and I lovethose guys.
You know.
I think they had a great idea.
I think the community who workson Genius.
It was a great tech idea.
It was a great.
They didn't have the culturalcachet.

(51:41):
The way they were kind ofmoving in the beginning, because
they were very front-facing,was just like outsiders in this
thing, in this culture, andpeople question well, you know
who are these guys really.
You know what I'm saying andwhat are they doing, playing in
this space, and you know mecoming over.
Added that cultural.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
You gave them credibility.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
The credibility and the creativity and the foresight
to help develop content out ofit.
Hey, this doesn't you know.
When I first sat with themcause they called me to come
work for them they didn't evenhave an open position.
It was like, yo, we just wantto work with you, we'll figure
out a position.
I was at MTV at the time and Iwas like damn, I want to make
Genius the new MTV.

(52:23):
Not necessarily a cable network, but MTV, when we were coming
up, was the place where youwould go and it was just music
all the time.
And I was like I want to buildthat because at the time that
didn't exist.
At the time a shot of TMZ isnot a shot.
They've been successful.
About a shot of my man, trentover there, Everybody was
following the TMZ model ofjournalism.

(52:43):
Even when I was at XXL, evenwhen I was at MTV, it was like
how can we get clicks?
How do you get the headline toclick?
How do you get this?
How do you get that?
So artists would come aroundand the storyline around artists
were about everything but theirmusic.
It's like clickbait, yeah.
So I wanted to build a placewhere artists can come and talk
about their music and feel safedoing that.

(53:05):
Like yo, you could just comehere and talk about the music we
ain't got to get into all theother I don't care who you're
dating, unless you wrote a songabout it.
You know what I'm saying.
And I'd like to think not onlywith Genius, with the content.
I feel like we've also affectedpeople around us.
I think, after the success thatGenius had early on, after I

(53:27):
got there, I think it started toinspire a lot of other places
to like, hey, let's focus onmusic a little bit more.
You know, now the streamers gotit, now it's all about
streaming and it's back tomostly bullshit.
Yeah, yeah, that's the way thependulum swings, but it was
great.
So, you know, I think me goingthere was like a domino effect,

(53:47):
because there were amazingpeople who came in after me, who
helped to elevate the brand aswell, like Brendan Frederick,
who's now at Complex, and my man, opie and I mean I'm going to
start naming people, I'm goingto forget people, but I'm not
saying it was me alone, but mecoming in was definitely the
signifier of a change, adirection for that company.

(54:09):
And then you know we're in 2025now the company was bought, was
acquired in 2021.
And you know it's aboutcontinuing to develop and build
towards the future to fit intothis changing landscape and not
just fit into it but lead inthis changing landscape.
So that's the mission I'm onright now and we have we also
have a distro on.
So you know's the mission I'mon right now and and we have um,

(54:30):
we also have a distro on.
So you know, I've been signingartists and I've been working
with world star and we've beensigning artists over there.
So it's been cool, man, to kindof have our hands in all kind
of facets of of of music Is your.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
is your next project coming out through through that
distro?
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Because and they asked me they was like yo, you
know distro through genius.
And I was like nah, because?
A couple of reasons.
One, I want to keep what's me.
For me, my music is reallyexpression and it's a therapy
for me.
I've been so blessed in themedia space to really make a
living.
I don't need the music to doanything for me, but exist.

(55:09):
I've been so blessed in themedia space to really make a
living.
I don't need the music to doanything for me, but exists.
Of course I want to besuccessful, of course, like I'm
not in this to do bad businessor lose money, but I measure my
music by different metrics.
You know what I'm saying.
And then, two, I don't want tobe on the same label as artists.
That you know.
When I, when I signed an artistto Distro, I kind of make a
promise to them too.
You know what I'm saying.

(55:29):
So I don't want to put myselfahead of the artists that I
signed.
Yeah, I just think it's badoptics, and people know my
intention and I don't thinkanybody would take it like that.
But what I'm at, I pitch forthe artists that we signed.
I pitch for them more than Ipitch for myself.
I put them in position more.
There's one producer I won'tsay who's next, but there's one

(55:50):
artist that I have that was likeyo, I want to work with
so-and-so producer.
And in my head I'm like shit, Iwant to work with so-and-so.
Matter of fact, I'm not eventhinking about that, I didn't
get there yet, but they werelike yo, I want I done had

(56:11):
so-and-so's number for a longtime.
We know each other.
I've never reached out formyself.
I want one too, but it hadn'toccurred to me to advocate for
myself in that way.
It was easier for me toadvocate for somebody who I had
signed to.
It was easier for me toadvocate for somebody who I had
signed to, and it wasn't a lackof belief in myself or a

(56:34):
confidence thing or nothing likethat.
It was just like man.
My music is so deeply personalto me.
It's not the first thing that Ithink of.
Who can I reach out to?
What feature can I get?
Whatever?
But when I'm in distro mode, Ican put that hat on.
Oh, we can align so-and.
Here we could do this, and itallows me to be a better
advocate for the, for the artistI got you, so tell me what's
next.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
What, what next?

Speaker 2 (56:56):
genius.
Um, you know.
Working on um.
You know I want to build somenew series.
We have our verify series,which is classic yellow
background.
You know where artists breakdown their lyrics.
We're gonna keep doing that.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
I love that I think we're about 1,600 episodes in.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
We've done a lot of those.
We also have our open micperformance series, which is
amazing and I love it A lot ofpeople.
Just recently we did the Dochiand the Issa Ray and put them
together for open mic and shoutout to my man, andres, who
helped put that together on thegenius side, really kind of came
up with the idea to put thattogether and put that emotion.

(57:34):
It was amazing.
And then so we have those twoseries and but you know, this
year is a goal of mine to startadding more series, you know, to
do new innovative ideas way ofstorytelling.
So that's one of the challengesthat we're going to accomplish
this year.
We're working a lot with brandpartners and stuff like that.
So we got something by the timethis comes out.

(57:55):
We just did something reallyfun with Lupe Fiasco and Panda
Express.
It totally ties into who Lupeis.
It's not just sticking somebodywith a brand to get a check,
just not for the check.
When people see it, they'regoing to be like Lupe and Panda
Express and then, like his fans,are going to be like ah, okay,

(58:16):
I get it, like you know what.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
I'm saying it makes perfect sense yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
So, you know, do a lot of brand partnerships and
business.
I'm looking forward to signingartists, and you know we just
signed this artist named Saki,who is dope, and another artist
named Mashu Wynn is coming thisyear on Genius Distro.
We have another artist, 17years old, out of Florida, and
so now looking forward to that,and then me putting out my own

(58:40):
project too.
Okay, you know what I'm sayingand continuing, you know I'm
going to put out a project.
I got a couple joints withJustice League that I'm working
on.
Shout out to Pete Rock.
I got a couple joints withJustice League that I'm working
on Shout out to Pete Rock.
I'm trying to lock in with PeteRock, good luck.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
I love Pete.
I call him Pita.
It's tough to lock in sometimeswith Pete, but you'll make it
happen.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Which is a dream of mine, because I told you where I
first started.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yes, full circle.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
I also told you how it's hard for me to advocate for
myself.
I just don't think to advocatefor myself.
Pete reached out to me one day.
He just hit me.
He was like yo, we got to getone in bro.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
What, when, where?

Speaker 2 (59:22):
I dropped my album on December 30th.
He was like yo, I was supposedto be on that joint, what's up?
We got to get one in.
I said, bro, don't threaten mewith a good time, like you say.
They went and went.
So maybe me and Pete will getsomething and shout out to P-Rod
whether we do or we don't, ofcourse.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Oh, my God Legend.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
In fact, the acknowledgement alone means
everything.
Yeah, legend were starting tobuild this series um working for
genius, very much dedicated toit, but it's 24 hours in the day
and I love having my ownYouTube channel.
Just my thoughts.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
No, you're doing well with it.
I mean you know you'reconsistent.
I mean that's the main thinggreat opinions, like you said.
Even if people don't alwaysagree with those opinions, you
can tell those opinions aresincere.
You're not doing it just to getpeople riled up.
You're saying what you feelit's real, whatever it is.
You're doing a great job withit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Thank you, man, I appreciate it and you with this
man you and I had thisconversation when we were just
talking about media and then tosee you actually take off and do
it, man, this is great.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
I'm just humbled to be here talking to you.
I really appreciate it, man.
Thank you, man.
Thank you Rob Markman.
He's a legend in media space.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Jeff Sledge.
Listen man, come on, man.
You talking about being atBentley's.
I'm talking about beinginspired by Slick Rick.
You're like listen man, come onman.
You talking about being atBentley's, I'm talking about
being inspired by Slick Rick.
You're like nah, I was around.
This is when I first startedgetting in the industry.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
I will never forget those girls.
I don't know, I don't know them, I don't know them from a can
of paint, but I just rememberthat energy man and them yelling
those words you know, don'tfade out.
I just remember that I was likewow, it was just captivating to
me to see those girls just gothat ham over that record.
And they were fly girls.
They weren't like you know,rough girls, they were like you

(01:01:17):
know.
But again, it's not about me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
No, it is, though.
This is why this is soimportant, bro, and real quick,
I won't take too much time here,but this is why this is so
important.
I was thinking about this today.
These streamers, these peoplein the media.
I'm about to go make a videoabout the guy.
Aiden Ross talked about Doji.
I didn't like the way headdressed it.
I referred to it as a bitch.
I thought that was terrible.

(01:01:40):
It made me think of who areyour OGs.
You realize on the internetwith these streamers and it's
not to give him an excuse, theydon't have OGs.
It's not like they got put onby somebody.
You put yourself on.
This is the era of you putyourself on.
So we respect the hustle of theacademics, of all you guys, the

(01:02:00):
self-made.
There's a part of that that Ihave to respect.
But it's like who taught youthe guys I came up with in my
neighborhood?
I was taught by because I wasoutside swaying when I get into
the media here with Jeff Sledgeand being able for you to be
able to tap me and speak to meon some peer-to-peer shit, when

(01:02:23):
I recognize that you have seenmore than I've seen.
You have helped build thethings that influenced me and
I'm able to stand on top of that.
I didn't build myself up.
I didn't come out of nowhere.
A thing was created that thensomebody can help me get into

(01:02:43):
you as an OG and I'm thankful tohave OGs.
I'm thankful to have people whocame before me, who I can learn
from, who I oh, this is how youdo it.
This is how you move it.
This is how you and I wishthose guys, for the health and
the sake of our culture, wouldlearn to do better and listen to
some of these OGs when we tellyou listen.

(01:03:05):
That wasn't the way to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying I agree, no, I agree,
yes, I know what you're saying,I agree a thousand percent.
Then you know we could go fortwo hours on different examples
of some of these streamers justjumping out the window and going
left and it's like man, likewhat's happening here with you
guys?
Again, you're getting money andI respect it.
You built it up, I respect it,but, like you know, it sounds

(01:03:30):
coin to coin.
I know you're a comic book head, but with great power comes a
great responsibility and there'scertain things, when you get to
you know you're building yourthing up.
There's certain things you justshouldn't do because it's bad
for the culture and it's goingto affect it, because people are
going to see what you did andjust emulate because they think
that's the way to go yeah, Iwant to leave something for, for

(01:03:52):
I don't want this all formyself.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
You don't want this off.
I want to leave something forthe next generation.
When I, when I clock out, Iwant leadership better than when
I left it exactly.
You know.
You know I'm saying likesomebody else, so my kids could,
like, have a space in this.
So you know I'm saying so thenext generation have a space.
This.
But that's what culture is.
And I think when you understandculture, you also understand
wanting to preserve it.
And I think if you don'tunderstand culture and you don't

(01:04:15):
prescribe the culture, thenit's just a thing and you don't
necessarily care if you burn itdown.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
You're just hitting a lick.
Yeah, you exist in the culture,so act like it, because the
culture is worth something.
Man yeah, man yeah man.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
But thank you again, man, I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Nah, man, I appreciate being here.
Man, anything you need, man,hit me up.
Anytime, man, I'm here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
You can catch Mixed and Mastered on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend I'm
your host.
Jeffrey Sledge.
Mixed and Mastered.