Sean C

Step into the extraordinary world of Sean C — legendary DJ, producer, A&R, and true architect of hip-hop. From Harlem block parties to Grammy nominations, Sean’s journey is a masterclass in resilience, reinvention, and cultural impact.

In this powerful episode, Sean shares how a cancer diagnosis became the unlikely spark that launched him from the mailroom at LOUD Records to producing era-defining records. He takes us back to where it all began — from his name being given by DJ Master Don, to co-founding the Executioners, to shaping the sound of artists like Big Pun, Jay-Z, Dead Prez, and Beyoncé.

Hear the untold stories behind the making of “Still Not a Player,” the creative battles that birthed “Hip Hop” by Dead Prez, and the cinematic vision that powered American Gangster. Sean also opens up about teaching RZA’s techniques to actors on Wu-Tang: An American Saga and his shift into music supervision and mentorship.

More than just stories — this is a conversation about the soul of hip-hop, the balance between art and industry, and the power of staying true to the craft.

Support the show

Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, we got it.
This week's guest is a bonafide legend, sean C, a Harlem
native who founded theExecutioners DJ Collective and
has produced records for Jay-Z,mary J Blige and Big Pun, among
others.
Sean became a VP at LoudRecords and later threw his
production company, grind Music,hearing the Grammy nomination

(00:23):
for Rock Boys off the AmericanGangster soundtrack.
Later he did music supervisionfor the Get Down, wu-tang and
American Saga and Luke Cage, aswell as the Apple TV series
Starling.
Let's take a look inside SeanC's boundary-pushing career on
this week's episode of Mixed andMastered.

(00:43):
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,the podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.

(01:05):
Mixed and Mastered with areally good friend of mine, lil
Bro, even though he ain't Lil nomore, but Lil Bro yeah yeah, I
feel good that somebody couldcall me Lil Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Nobody calls me Lil Bro, no more.
I'm officially Uncle Status nowyou know Exactly.
But everybody I told that I wasinterviewing him today was
really excited.
He's very well known in themusic industry circles.
My man, sean C.
How you feeling, man?

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I'm blessed man, I am so blessed man.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
You look like a little office setup back there.
Man, you look like aprofessional and shit.
You really know what you'redoing.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
A little Vinyl, you know what I'm saying, A little
Vinyl you know, A Vinyl backthere and shit yeah yeah, yeah,
it's popping over there.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
It.
It's my sanctuary right hereExactly.
I'm going to show you the otherside because the sneakers look
crazy over there.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, We'll start just at the top.
So I met Sean, I don't know howmany years ago, a very long
time ago.
He had a group called the.
What was it?
The?
What brothers?
The?
E brothers, the.
E brothers yeah, and he had.
I don't even know how I gotyour tape.
I have.
I mean so, and he had.
I saw, I don't even know how Igot your tape.
I have.

(02:26):
Let me so so and go.
I wouldn't remember, thoughsomehow I got their demo tape.
I don't know, it might havecome through nobody or yeah, it
could have been.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, it could have been yeah connection through you
know, yeah, who knows?

Speaker 1 (02:36):
yeah, but I got it.
I got a copy of their tape.
It was, uh, a rapper namedwayno not the wayno that people
know now, but we know and uh, Istill call him Jerry, but
producing nobody and Sean, andthey had this.
I still remember that song.
They had this one song, yeah,that ended up being the Smith
and Wesson record, exactly.
I still remember I was likewhoa.

(02:56):
So I was living in Harlem andSean is from Harlem.
So I went uptown and I met youall I think on like 8th Avenue,
like outside of a store or someshit.
You know we got kind of talkingand stuff and Sean says that
I'm the first person he's he metthat had an actual job in the
music business, like a job, andwe go to the office and sit in,

(03:17):
you know, and so you know, hecame down and we started
developing a relationship fromthere.
But we're going to start at thebeginning.
So you grew up in Harlem, newYork.
Yes, I did Tell me a little bitabout that.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
I grew up, so my mother and father both were from
145th, between Lenox and 7th,the gas station block.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, the gas station as well.
Yeah, the gas station block,the Dunkin' Donuts block.
Well, now, now, yeah, back.
Then it was the gas stationblock.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Well, now, now, yeah, back then it was a gas station,
block it ain't even a gasstation block no more.
Yeah, yeah, now it's cooked.
Yeah, but both my mother andfather grew up on that block, so
that's where I grew up until Iwas probably about 11.
That's the first place that Isaw hip hop, because Master Don
was from the area and there wasa place called Fly Guys on my

(04:07):
street and I'm talking about I'mlittle little, so I'm, you know
, eight, nine or whatever ten,something like that, probably
younger and Don used to bringhis equipment out over there.
Fly Guys was probably a cokespot or something like that back
then.
You, you know all that.
Yeah, that was going on in allof.

(04:28):
But, yeah, master Don, who, ifyou don't know Master Don, is he
actually?
He made a record called Funkboxthis is called the Funkbox.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, that's how it was played exactly, which is
where Master P got uh, fromMaster Don, but anyway, long
story short.
Yeah, exactly which is whereMaster P got.
Uh, no, no, no, no, no, no,that's from Master Don.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
But anyway, long story short.
Yeah, master Don, I used to bethe little kid in front of the
ropes.
He's the first person I everseen do DJ do anything hip-hop,
and he would see me all the time, like anytime he came out.
I'm in the front of the ropes,just like engaged and intrigued
by this thing, and he front ofthe ropes, just like engaged and
intrigued by this thing.

(05:07):
And he asked me my name one dayand I was like sean.
He was like sean c in the houseand he's the one that named me
sean.
He's the one that named me seanc.
But uh, you know, long storyshort.
Just growing up, we moved down,we moved further downtown, to
seanburg, and that's where I metfat man school, who was my best
friend.
He lived a block away from me.
Okay, we started a grouptogether.

(05:27):
We're friends since 11, 12years old, inseparable, every
day, going uptown, and we wouldgo to St Nick Projects.
You know, I idolized Barry Band Doug E, fresh and Chill Will
and all those guys.
We'd go to the park jams uptownand see them, and that's
where's.
Would you ever see teddy?
Yeah, so we, um, yeah so duringthat period of time, because,

(05:52):
like harlem was such a um, youknow, for me, man, I would never
change the way I grew up,especially um musically in
harlem, because there was musiceverywhere and we would be in st
nick, projects, projects allthe time and Teddy would come
through or whatever, and wewould be doing park jams out
there with Easy Kid it was RawBass's first DJ Easy Rock and

(06:14):
all of those dudes betweenLincoln and St Nick and Teddy
heard about us and then that'show he signed us.
He ended up signing us.
So we had a deal with TeddyRiley.
Wow, we were teenagers but wenever got a chance to come out.
But yeah, that's how it went.
The long and the short.
It was.
A bunch of DJs started there.
That's where the executioners,the X-Men DJs, come from.

(06:37):
It was me.
Rock Raider lived a block awayfrom me.
A guy named Serge named himRock Raider brought him to my
house and he was a littleyounger than me, and ever since
then he would come to my houseevery day, every day.
I'd show him routines and goback and forth.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
It's a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
You know a whole network of rappers and DJs back
then.
That's amazing, yeah, x-men DJsand we would just battle DJs.
That's amazing, yeah, the x-mendjs and we would just battle
djs.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, that's amazing how like those little colonels
started their journey.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, yeah man now you know, I'm saying because,
they don't go away.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
You kind of you know the colonels are always there.
You just kind of you knowyou're doing your thing, but you
, you always remember like howit started.
You know, yeah, it was anincredible time.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, yeah, man.
I'm so grateful I grew up inthat period of time that I came
up in that time.
I would never want to.
I was old enough and youngenough to see the beginning
parts of hip-hop.
Of course I wasn't that oldwhere I could see it?

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, you were a kid.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Be around and hear the tapes the Cold Crush tapes
and all of that part of it as akid and then still young enough
to partake in it and contributemy part to it as a DJ and as a
producer.
And I got to see Don afteryears later, when I ended up
having some success and when Iworked at Loud and was doing all

(08:05):
these things, and I saw him andhe was like I'm so proud of you
.
That made me feel like reallyreally good.
To master Tom.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Of course, of course.
I really always like that.
I still like that record tothis day.
That Funkbox record was fire.
So you were with the Executionsfor a while.
Did you guys do New MusicSeminar and all that, or was
that before you guys?
No?

Speaker 2 (08:29):
So we would do all of the DJ battles DMC Steve D, who
was one of the founding members, was myself, Rock Raider, Steve
D, a guy named Johnny Cash, DMDand a couple other people the
founding members and then webrought in Rob Swift the people,
the founding members and thenwe brought in rob swift, but
steve was the first one to getin a battle and he was on video
music box who got into like anational accepted battle which

(08:51):
was a music seminar and then andhe won- yeah, I was, I was
there, shit, yeah, I was thereat that battle with him and, uh,
it was a, I remember him and itwas a guy, I can't remember his
name, he was a japanese kid andhe came over and he was like
going I can't remember his name,a Japanese kid and he came over
and he was like going crazy.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
But Steve, I was one of the judges, me, tim Dogg from
Ultra Magnetic MCs, shit, oh myGod, I can't remember who else
was judging.
We were like the judges of thatthing.
Yeah, with Steve, I rememberthat.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
I remember that you know what I'm talking about.
I am the little brother.
Yeah, exactly, exactly You'rethe judge and I was just trying
to be on the other side of thedesk.
That wasn't even feasible.
Not that it wasn't feasible,but I never thought I was just
like.
I'm going to do this.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
How do I get there?

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
The music business is interesting because one of the
reasons I'm doing this isbecause everybody's path is
totally different.
It's not like, oh, I do thisand not a job, we're working at
a corporate company.
It's like, well, I did this andthen, you know, I got hired.
And then it's like everybody'sentryway is completely there's
no one way to get in, there'sreally no one way, you know.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, it was like you know us.
So Scoop and I had this groupwhen we got signed to TED and
then when the deal fell apart,it was kind of like, oh shit,
what do we do, you know?
And originally actually and I'mskipping nobody who was the
original it was us three.

(10:24):
Originally we were the Get BusyBoys, like that was the
original.
It was us three originally.
We're gonna get busy boys, likethat.
That's the original.
To get busy boys.
That was our original name itwas at the dj and scoop and
nobody, jimmy rapped.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, I don't know him as aproducer.
No, he rapped.
And then he went away tocollege and we continued on and

(10:45):
then when he came back, actuallythe deal, you know, teddy had
found out.
Everything that was going onbetween him and gene griffin was
the guys.
Don't know, gene griffin waslike he's an og music executive.
Yeah, yeah, he's the original.
You know how people have thatlore about Suge.
I feel like Gene had thatAbsolutely.

(11:07):
You know the cliche music isindustry.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
You know, street guy that goes into the music
business Going to the music, butthe old school version, like
the beginning parts of it.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Absolutely.
He was one of those guys,Absolutely.
So that company dissolved, sowe never.
We did a whole album but wenever got to come out and then
nobody had come home fromcollege during that period of
time and when he came home hewas still rapping at the time.
So him and his brother starteda group Okay, on production.

(11:40):
I had had a kid and so I sloweddown on DJing and I was looking
more towards production becauseI was like that's how I can
make money.
I didn't look at DJing assomething that was going to be
able to make money.
I had to go get a job.
But I also was like, if I'mgoing to continue to do
something in music, I'm going todig in on the production side
and as a DJ, that is your, youknow.

(12:01):
That's a natural progression.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, it is it most, most of the most of the best
producers are djs at the coreright.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
You know, dr dre, premiere like it's, you say it's
a very natural progression togo that way, you know yeah yeah,
so we started started a littlecrew which was the e brothers
black eye, which was nobody andhis brother, and we had a dude
named ron spliff.
We had a dude named rock cigarfrom polar grounds couple
rappers and that was our crew.
Scoop had already startedtransitioning into the promotion

(12:34):
.
Yeah, so he was doingpromotions there that's where he
interned at and that was kindof like me not really

(12:56):
understanding that part either.
You know what I mean.
And so we stayed back and wewere doing working on this crew
of rappers and producers andactually Ree from Tommy Boy
offered us a single deal fornobody's group, Black Eye.
And then you were reallyinterested in the E Brothers E
Brothers.
And so we were like, yeah,we're going to have some sort of

(13:17):
traction, Something's going tohappen.
You know we just every day.
You know the story we're in thecrib in his mother's house it's
called your mama's house beatsand dudes rapping every day.
And scoop ended up going totommy boy.
When he went to tommy boy hegot the e brothers on the new
jersey drive soundtrack.
That was.
Uh, that actually was my, as myfirst plaque that's the first

(13:40):
plaque I ever got was from that.
Wow.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Wow.
So how did you transition?
What was?
It Was Loud your first actualjob?
Yes, yes.
So how did that happen?
Tell me about that.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
So during that period of time, after the E Brothers,
I had already had a son, butthings started getting really
crazy.
And I had a son, but thingsstarted getting really crazy and
I had a job.
And then, um, they get, I, Ithis is a personal part of the
story, but I will let it beknown, because people go through
things and I like to you know,let it, you know, never know how
your story could help people.

(14:15):
And, um, I had cancer.
I had gotten cancer at thattime and so I could no longer
work.
I had a regular like securityjob while I was making beats,
and so then I sat home while Iwas going through this, doing
the disability and this chemowe're getting ready to start
chemo and I was like, well, whatam I going to do?
Like, what am I going to do now?

(14:35):
Like I could die.
What if I died?
I didn't even get to where Iwas trying to go, you know.
So I talked to school and I waslike, first I was, I'm going to
follow the same path that he did, and I called them and I was
like, yo, I'm going to intern, Iwant to intern at a label, I
think if I get a job, then I'llbe able to still have money
coming in and I'll be able toget beats off to the artists,

(14:57):
because I'll be around theartists and I'll learn.
So it really was more to getbeats off, though, and so he
introduced me to a kid namedMalachi, who was like street
team A&R assistant over at Loud,and I went over there, and it
was a guy named Che Harris, whoactually passed away to RIP.
Che Harris was the officemanager and he had also went to.

(15:21):
He was also in my musicbusiness classes.
I had taken music business atthe New School.
I didn't really, to be honest, Ididn't remember Che at all, but
he remembered me and he waslike yo yeah, now, I remember
you, I'm going to make sure thatyou don't worry about it, I'll
make sure you get a spot.
And I was like, oh yeah, Iremember you, bro.
And he kept his word.
So when they moved, when Loudmoved offices from the Union

(15:43):
Square office to LexingtonAvenue, I went in as an intern
and I was interning there.
And at the same time, while Iwas interning I kind of skipped
this part, but I did say we weremaking beats every day.
Nobody and I had been making.
You know, we had our crew ofrappers, but we were also giving
beats to people.
So Dame Dash lived across thestreet from nobody.

(16:06):
Nobody lived in Franklin Plaza,which is on 108th and 1st and
it's right across the streetfrom 1199.
And that's where yeah, theyused to go to the car wash over
there.
Yeah, car wash, yeah, andthat's where Dame lives.
Yeah, and that's where.
That's where Dame lives.
So we found out that Dame wasmanaging this, this kid, jay-z,

(16:28):
who we thought was super dope.
We thought it was nice, wedidn't know he was going to be
Jay-Z, but we was like he's nice, we want to get beats on his
joint.
We gave him a beat tape.
So a year or so passes, orwhatever.
We were working on that song aswell as working on our own
stuff.
And while I'm at Loud as anintern, reasonable Doubt comes

(16:48):
out, or at least the singlescomes out.
And the first single was Can'tKnock the Hustle, Was it?
Yeah, well, it was the firstofficial official, the first
single was Ain't no Nigga.
Yeah, and Ain't no Nigga and theradio record came out before
the album no nigga, yeah, andain't no nigga.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
And the radio record was I got you.
I got you Came out before thealbum too.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah.
So it was Can't Knock theHustle.
So it was the second singletechnically.
And Matty C, who was the headof A&R, Matty C and Scott Free,
he called me in the office.
He was like yo, I heard you didthis Jay-Z record.
And I was like yeah, man, youknow, boy, nobody, I had a part

(17:31):
in it as well.
And he said I heard that youstarted the Executioners, like
the DJ crew, the X-MenExecutioners.
I said yeah, and he said RobTulo, who was in A&R at Atlantic
.
He told me that he offered youguys, offered you a deal for one
of your artists, a single dealover at Atlantic.
And I was like yeah, yeah.

(17:52):
He said do me a favor, bro,don't go to the mail room
anymore.
You're in the A&R departmentbecause I was in the mail room.
I was literally in the mailroom grinding it out you know
what I mean.
I would go to everybody's officeevery day and ask if they
needed something.
But I'm in there taping upboxes, yeah, and I got hustles
on the radio, but I knew youknow what I mean.
I had a, especially since I wasgoing through the cancer thing.

(18:14):
I had like a vision, like Iknew.
I was like I know what's goingto happen and I had all these
seeds.
I knew what I was doing and Iwas actually a little older than
everyone that were interns, soI think my focus might have been
also a little bit more mature.
You were a little more mature,yeah, yeah, yeah, I was just
focused.
I was a single father.
Yeah, I had all this weight onmy back so I had that energy and

(18:37):
once that started happening,that was the plan.
And once the plan startedcoming to fruition, like the
cancer thing was nothing.
I was just like I just need toget to chemo so I can get this
over, like this is the reasonwhy I got cancer is because I'm
supposed to do this.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, so you got into A&R yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
What was the first project you worked on and?

Speaker 1 (18:57):
what was the first artist that you signed at Loud
and what was the first artistthat you signed at Loud?

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, the first project that I worked on was
when I got in there was theywere doing Hell on Earth.
Wow, that's the second LoudMobb Deep album.
With the third Mobb Deep albumthey were working on that.
When I came in, it was theywere doing Godfather Part 3.
Wow, and so I you know I waswas an anr assistant at that

(19:27):
time.
Um, but you know, I know, I knewwhat I knew, so I just would
really just be excuse me in thestudio talking to have talking
about the npc, you know, and anduh, loud's process of anR was
very much artists first andartists had total creative

(19:47):
control.
Really, yeah, like Maddie'ssystem was more so to create the
situation for the art.
If you want the artists to dosomething, more so create the
situation that garners them togo in that direction, instead of
like saying this is what youshould do, you should do this

(20:09):
and you should take these beatsand these are the beats you
should rap off and this is howit's.
You know that was his, that wasthe way he was, just like yo.
If you want large, just havelarge, come through.
Or have large, be around theoffice, have large, you know,
large professor, or whoever theoffice, whoever the producer is
like, make it, basically make itmore organic than you feel like
you're telling the artist whatto do because they push you away

(20:30):
from that.
I think.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
I've always thought that I know he's going through a
lot of stuff now but he didn'tdo this on purpose.
It was just his way.
But Puff's way of A&, a and rand to me actually hurt the
industry long, long term.
And again, it wasn't.
He didn't do this on purpose,but everybody saw kind of like
the superstar a and r personwho's kind of controlling
everything and he was reallyobviously really good at that

(20:59):
but everybody's not that right.
I think the way my way of a andr is closer was closer to that
what you're talking about.
They set up a space for theartists to be creative and
relaxed and do their thing andof course it's conversations and
you know, you'll kind of try tosteer things a little bit but
to kind of be like that theseare the beats, this is the da da
, da da.

(21:20):
I think in the long term thathelped.
I heard a lot of people becausethey they thought that was the
way to do A&R and it kind ofprobably hurt a lot of artists
in the long term because theycouldn't express themselves.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Right and, you know, fast forward it.
I did end up in the futureworking with Puff as a producer
and saw that that system as well.
But I feel like I was able tohave a me coming from loud.
I was able to have a balancebecause I got to see both sides
and I think, being in A&R atloud and a producer you know, no

(21:56):
, those guys weren't producersand I could come at it from
another angle.
So making records, like so whenum, I remember when Pun got
signed, so we were working onHell on Earth and Maddie had
come to the studio and he askedwhat did I think about Big Pun?
And oh, big Punisher.
Cause we didn't know Big Pun atthat time, he was Big Punisher,

(22:18):
he hadn't had any records out,he just had that freestyle with
um.
Uh, it was a, it was a Fat Joesong with Ray Korn.
It wasn't a freestyle, it wasFirewater with Ray Korn and Fat
Joe and I was like he's dope,but I don't know if he can make
a song.
So I always looked at it from aperspective of like what's the
song making ability?
What's the artist song makingability?

(22:39):
And he's like Steve wants tosign him.
I just came from the meetingand then he brought him to the
studio.
He's on his way up here.
So he came up, we hung out andhe ended up getting signed and
we created that when we werecreating that first album.
He was more of a spitter, but Isaw that he had this.

(23:01):
He's got this big personality.
So he had this songwritingability and he did the I'm not a
player first, which we thoughtwas his.
That was the record that wethought was going to be his
single.
Once we made it a single, weshot a video for it and
everything and it did decent.
But he had this idea in his headof a remix even before he had a

(23:24):
beat.
He was like I want to, had tobeat.
He was like, yeah, he's like Iwant to do a remix to I'm Not A
Player.
I'm going to call it Still NotA Player.
I want to use the Joe chorus.
I don't want to be a player.
No more, I'm not a player, Ijust fuck a lot.
He had the whole song.
He had the Boricua MorenaReally.
He had it all mapped out.
He had Boricua Morena Really.
Yeah, they're all mapped out.
Yeah, they're all mapped out.

(23:44):
He's like I just need the beatand so one day.
So I was talking to Nobody, soyou know there's still a team,
so we're all feeding each other.
You know what I mean indifferent ways.
So I told Noel to give me somebeats for Pun because he's
looking for some joints for theremix.
Our other boy, nomad, who wasin the crew, came through with
the Nobody beats whilst Pun wasin the office and Pun was just

(24:09):
sitting in our office and wejust would play this is the
other thing.
Like I'm not playing you beatsfor this remix, just go in there
and just play music, just playthis shit while he's sitting
there.
And he played that Still Not APlayer beat while Pun was just
chilling in the office and heplayed that Still Not A Player
beat.
While Pong was just chilling inthe office and he was like yo,
that's the remix.
He knew right away yeah, he'slike that's the remix, that's

(24:33):
the remix.
And he starts saying it to it.
He's like that's the joint, I'mgoing to use that.
I'm going to use that for theremix.
Wow, yeah, watching hissongwriting ability and I became
really integral in creating,helping to finish out his sound,
me and Punk got really reallycool after that and a lot

(24:55):
tighter.
He knew who I was as a DJ andhe respected my air because I
basically helped him make hisbiggest record to change his
life.
You know what I mean.
Wow, wow.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
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Speaker 2 (25:43):
So yeah, yeah, and that also.
Then, you know, fast forward.
Then I went and signed my crew,the executioners, and this is
during the period of time whenthere was a lot of DJ albums
Flex had his album, big Cap,clue Clue had his album.
But I knew that we couldn't dothat same thing.
So I was always looking at adifferent way to do it.

(26:05):
And these guys, they hadcontinued on and they had their
own following already and theywere more of an alternative.
They had white fans, you know,like white kids, white college
kids were coming to see themperform.
That's what all the shows wereraves and they were doing all of
those.
And that was when turntablismwas at a bigger point.

(26:26):
You know, it was at its height.
So I knew we couldn't do thesame kind of record and I was
like yo, we need to do like analternative, like I looked at
the fans that they had and wepicked I picked Linkin Park as a
group for us to do a song withwhen they were just coming up.
That was before they becameLinkin Park and we did that song
and that became huge.

(26:47):
Dead Prez was a group that alsogot signed during the same
period of time.
That was pun Dead Prez not seen.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Did they come when Dead Prez got signed?
Did they have hip hop or didthey make that?
No?

Speaker 2 (27:02):
No, they didn't have hip hop.
They came through lord jamar.
Um, lord jamar brought him in.
Really, I didn't know that.
Yeah, lord jamar found theirpress okay, that they were
signed to him originally, wow,and that was how that deal got
done.
Okay, um, I became their theira and r and their person and I

(27:24):
helped scope that whole albumwith them.
Every artist that I reallyworked with, we kind of became
friends.
I'm still cool with their pressto this day.
So we created those records.
But hip hop didn't come untillate.
We had just the regular storyAlbum's done.
You don't got a single Needthat one more record.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
One more song.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, where's that single?
So they made Stick was likefuck that.
He went in the studio he madethe beat for hip hop and it's a
really simple beat.
It's just drums and that basssound.
That's the whole beat.
He was kind of doing it on somefuck the label shit.
Honestly, wow.
He was like that's why thesongs about the music industry

(28:11):
and like if you listen to thelyrics it's kind of like a you
know they want a single item,I'm gonna give them this.
And he didn't think that wewere gonna like it.
And I remember coming back fromthe studio because I was like
this is crazy.
When I walked in and he wasmaking that beat, I was like
this is crazy the next day how Iwould test records in loud,

(28:33):
since this is the time whenrecord labels basically the
staff at loud I can speak forloud.
The staff at loud were also thedemographic for our records.
So I would always, just anytimeI had a record.
That I thought was something Ilearned not to ask people if
they like a song, I'd just playit, and that's the same way at

(28:57):
A&R with Beats as well.
I'd just see what the reactionis.
We had a room in the back ofLoud.
I don't know if you had everbeen to the Lexington Avenue
office.
It was a room in the back ofloud.
I don't know if you had everbeen to the Lexington Avenue
office.
It was a room in the back thatwas not really soundproofed, but
we had huge speakers in thereAudit and Marb and everybody
would come back smoke weed inthat room.
So I went back there, turned uphip hop super loud just to see

(29:22):
if anybody would come back andbe like what's that?
And mad people.
I remember my boy Chef comingback who was in promo.
Most of the street team dudeswould always be like yo, what's
that, what's that?
You know what I mean?
What's that?
So yeah, and that was hip hop.
So I knew we had one Same thingwas thrown out of play.

(29:42):
I did the same thing the nextday.
After we did that Back at theoffice, turned it up loud, see
who would come back, and thatwas kind of the test.
Every time anybody came back itwould be like five, six people.
I knew it was something youknow.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, I remember a little quick story.
So I used to date this girl whoworked for a while at Bad Boy.
So I went up there one day tosee her and it was like late in
the day, probably 7, 8 o'clock,and I heard hip-hop playing.
And I'm like why are theyplaying hip-hop at Bad Boy?
That's crazy.
So she walked in, she's like Iwant to introduce you to

(30:19):
somebody.
It was Shine and he was playinghip-hop shine and he was
playing hip-hop.
He was playing hip-hop, he wasblasting it and I was like this
is not right.
He was like, yeah, this iscrazy.
Yep, it's the only time I evermet that kid wow you're playing
hip-hop.
Yep wow so after loud nowturned into src, correct?

(30:41):
Yes, so what was the transitionfrom Loud to SRC like?

Speaker 2 (30:46):
So he started SRC, which was his promo company.
I wasn't there right away inthe beginning, excuse me, I

(31:07):
wasn't there in the beginningwhen he first started it.
So he had David Banner and Akon, pardon me.
So, yeah, lyle turned into SRCand he had those artists but I
didn't work there for us,actually, nobody became A&R at
SRC, okay, nobody worked withAkon and a couple of others, so
it still was family, stillmoving.

(31:29):
Then, when he wanted to do theTerror Squad deal, he brought me
in to make the Terror Squadrecord with Joe, because Joe was
still signed to Atlantic at thetime but they had dropped Joe
but they didn't have TerrorSquad.
So he probably would havesigned Fat Joe if he could have,
you know.
Yeah, so you guys were underTerror Squad, yeah, and Remy

(31:54):
actually had been.
Remy signed to Loud becauseRemy was Punzard's artist and I
remember when he had a rap forme when he was still alive or
whatever, and he promised herthat she was going to be put on.
He died that same year orearlier in the next year Joe
kept her under the wing.

(32:14):
So when SRC started they movedthe deal.
When she didn't have a deal,they just moved it to SRC.
So it was really a setup forRem's album.
So I came in to make thoserecords for the Terror Squad
record with Joe.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
And that was really the extent of my SRC Was
conceded around this time.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, so we did the Terror Squad record, of course,
and Remy was hot as fist greaseoff of Lean Back.
That record did really well.
Of course, lean Back was aphenomenon, monster, monster.
That gave her heat, and then westarted making her record.
We did the Swizz record, thewhatever, we did, the Conceited

(33:05):
record, and, yeah, those werethe two records for our album
had she already done the Ante Upremix that was at Loud.
Yeah, she did that because shewas signed.
So that was at the Loud periodof time when we had MOP and Ante
Up and it was moving.
It wanted to do the remix andbe like yo, let's put Rem on.

(33:27):
Rem actually was like I want tobe on that and it's like all
right.
I kind of didn't see it atfirst.
You know what I mean.
She's like nah, nah, nah, giveme the beat, give me the beat,
give me the beat.
I heard y'all doing the remix.
Give me the beat.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
And in it, yeah, so the only thing you did at SRC
was the Terror.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Squad project.
Terror Squad oh, I did TerrorSquad.
I did Remy's album, which cameout on SRC as well.
It was Terror Squad, remy.
And then Feral March got.
I did a Feral March album.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
People didn't realize Feral March was on.
Src.
I forgot March was signed overthere.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, he was signed on SRC.
And then there was a Woo albumthat I worked on that came out
on SRC as well.
I was A&R for that.
And then that was during thesame period.
So that was during that time.
So when Loud folded, and thatwas that time in between Loud

(34:24):
and SRC, that was when I wasrunning as a producer.
So I was really like that was.
You know, I was kind of I wasexecuting the plan Because the
plan only Loud was, just so thatI could be get my producer's
thing off.
Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
So I could get my producer'sthing off and I didn't do many
records for artists on Loud.
I did 100% for Pun artists onthe line I did 100% for Pun.

(34:49):
I did a couple of records overthere, some Western records,
some soundtracks I worked onover there, like Soul in the
Hole and all that stuff as aproducer.
So I had to remind myself ofwhat my plan was so that I
wouldn't get caught up in justbeing in A&R and I went harder
on giving beats to people and,um, I you know, I got actually

(35:10):
ended up getting a lot ofGhostface records.
So during that period of time Istarted moving and I started
doing records with, with Puff,and got an artist signed over
there as well and then went fullcircle and Jay, we did American
Gangster.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, before we get to that, we're gonna get to that
before we get to that.
Then went full circle and Jay,we did American gangster.
Yeah, before we get to that,we're going to get to that
before we get to that, but thatwas the time.
That's that period, yeah, yeah,that period.
Yeah, before we get to that, um, fuck, I don't have one more
question.
One more question oh, tell me acouple of I don't.
I always I might not be there,I might I need to change that
term because I'm definitely nottrying to incriminate anybody or

(35:46):
, like you know, put people'sbusiness in the street per se.
But tell me a couple, I guess,interesting stories about um
working with any of the artistsin dial, like some, like
someone's, like oh, I can'tbelieve that happened, or
whatever you know.
Without, again, withoutincriminating anybody.
And if you can't remembernothing, that's cool.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, I mean I know people have told a lot of the
big pun stories of him with the.
He would have the.
He had this gun that shotblanks.
He used to carry it around allthe time.
Yeah, he carried it around allthe time.
And while he's in the studio,him and Tony Sunshine would do
this trick where they would putan apple on his head and he'd be

(36:31):
like shoot it off In the studioIn the studio and Pone would
pull it out and shoot the appleoff his head, like Tony would
shake his head and the applewould fall off.
He had a gun go off.
It's crazy because it's ill,how a gun really doesn't make
you think logically, because ifI shot an apple up your head,
the apple would explode on thewall.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
You know what I mean.
It wouldn't just fall off yourhead.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
But he used to do that all the time and freak
people out.
I remember he did it one timewhen Rashad Smith was in the
studio and then I was at hishouse one day and we were doing
I had he was doing vocals forsomething at his crib he had he
did the gun.
He was like yo, let's do thegun trip.
I think was it Tony Touch.
I think Tony Touch had come upthere, somebody had come up

(37:19):
right, and this dude, sunkist,was there and he was Pun, just
was like do it, do it.
So he starts beefing with someyou know, it's random dudes in
Pun's crib all the time and hestarts beefing with this, with
one of the guys Yo, where's mymoney?
I told you.
I told you, I told you, when Isee you again, you better have
my money, or whatever Starts.

(37:44):
And then he pulls out the gunand he's like blah, blah.
He starts letting it off andthe dude falls to the ground.
And then Tony Touch was likey'all watch his face.
He was like and then he waslike no witnesses, no witnesses.
Tony's like nah, nah, nah, nah,nah, nah, I'm good, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
I'm good, Mortified and shit.
He's like what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
is going on.
Yeah, tony used to.
I mean, probably used to dothat all the time.
So he was a prankster.
Yeah, super, super, superprankster.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
That's to the extent of I can tell I can't tell.
Don't tell the shit you can'ttell.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
I can't tell.
But you know a dope story,though, was like I mean, I'm
sure you have a ton of these,but just like being hip-hop
nerds like hit, like the firsttime you heard certain records
that ended up becoming classics,like I remember being in the
office like loud was.
It was like while you're goingthrough it you don't realize how
much of a time it was.

(38:38):
That won't ever happen again.
You know what I mean.
You could just be in the officeand Ray Conner just pop up and
be like yo, what up, son?
And I'm like chilling.
He's like yo, you want to hit anew single, come in the
listening room.
So just me and Ray, and thiswas for the second album.
So it's me and Ray in thelistening room, ray light up a

(39:00):
blunt, puts the tape in and it'sme and him and he stands in
front of me and performs theentire triumph like everybody's
verse.
He's like a bomb, what's on?
Wow, it was just a dope.
It was just dope that I always,every time I had triumph, I
just always remember how I heardit for the first time was yeah,

(39:20):
everybody's verse standing infront of me.
You know what I?
I mean?
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
I remember way back when I was working at, when my
first job was Wild Pitch Shaquem, who manages Latifah, he
manages Flavor Unit and all that.
We had a couple of Flavor Unitartists signed to Wild Pitch,
chill Rob G, Killer T.
So Chill Rob G and I becamereally like you said you become
cool with the artists, spend alot of time with them, and so

(39:48):
Chirwav G and Apache, or RP, wasa really good dude actually.
They came to the office one dayand I was there by myself and
we were talking and shit and I'mthe first person to play them
America's Most Wanted Ice Cube.
They didn't, they hadn't heardit.
I said you want to get this icecube shit and they're like yeah,

(40:11):
yeah, and I remember I stillcan, if I could draw, I could
draw apache's face like rightnow, like he was just like what
the fuck is this?
you know, if you get those typeof stories like yeah man, it's,
it's so dope, yeah, man, it's sodope.
So let's jump to americangangster.
So american gangster obviouslyis the soundtrack for the denzel
Washington movie about FrankLucas.
You guys, you and uh LV, yourproducer partner, did Oversaw

(40:32):
and did a lot of that soundtrack.
So tell me about that.
With with Bad Boy, um and um,obviously, jay-z.
So tell me about thatexperience, um it was dope man.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Um, I remember puff had called, had um text me.
Well, not texas, it wasn't even.
It was either two-way orblackberry blackberry.
Yeah, it might have been ablackberry or two I still miss
my blackberry on the love and um, because we had an artist sign.
So we were in the studio a lotworking on stuff and then we

(41:05):
ended we would work on were inthe studio a lot working on
stuff and then we ended we wouldwork on stuff for him and a lot
of the other bad boy artists.
So he knew the kind of soundthat we had, which was a little
different to some of the otheryou know guys that were around
or whatever, and or thatgeneration of Hitman, and he's
like yo.
I just ran into Jay and SandroPay and he's going to do.

(41:26):
He said he wants, uh, he's likeyo.
I just ran into jay and sandropay and he's gonna do.
He said he wants he's doinganother album and he wants me to
executive produce the album andI want to do it.
Y'all, I want y'all, uh to doit, because he wants all soul,
soul shit, soul samples and soulsamples.
Okay, yeah, but he never.
He didn't tell us it wasamerican gangster at that time.
Okay, he didn't tell us what wedidn gangster at that time.
Okay, he didn't tell us what wedidn't know it was for, you

(41:48):
know, a movie or none of that.
He just said that it was.
They were giving slightinformation.
I mean, you know they were umslow on the info and um.
So we were in the studio onceworking on something and l said
to him like yo, what's up withthe j?
Oh, he said you'll give me.
He said, have them, send me allof the beats from the studio.
So we made a CD this is CD timemade a beat CD, sent them all

(42:11):
of the joints.
We hadn't heard anything aboutit.
Weeks passed by.
We're in the studio.
I was like yo, what happenedwith the Jay-Z project?
And he said, oh, yeah, you'reright.
He said, call him now.
So we called him.
Literally like 20, 30 minuteslater, jay shows up to the

(42:34):
studio.
Wow, yeah, in a wrinkledt-shirt, just like he was just
in the crib.
He got there like 20 minutesflat.
He comes in.
We say what's up?
And we start playing them beats.
And we put in 20 minutes flat.
You know, wow, he comes in.
We say what's up?
And we start playing them beatsand we put in the first beat
that we played was sweet.
It ended up becoming sweet, butthat was the first beat that

(42:57):
was played and he was like yo.
So we, you know, stayed acouple hours.
Then he gets you know one ofthe beats he stopped.
He's like of the beats hestopped, he's like play it again
, play it again.
And he just said keep playingit.
And he's just sitting there inthe chair.
He's like turn the mic on, goesin the booth, splits a whole
song.
There's a song that we ended upnot using.

(43:18):
It, ended up not going on thealbum.
But then from then on he tookthe CD and it was probably three
weeks every day.
Now he's like we're doing it youwork all day.
And he didn't play anything atthat point.
So now we're doing it.

(43:39):
He takes the beats, comes backto the studio Say that was a
Monday.
Tuesday we go record shopping,we're buying records.
Come back sampling making beatsto the studio.
Say that was a monday.
Tuesday we go record shopping,we buy and buy records.
Come back sampling making beats.
Wednesday jay comes back to theuh to to the studio and plays
us the verse for sweet.
Then the verse is for uh, nohook as a song.

(44:02):
He gives it to us and then weadd on to that and then we give
him a new batch of beats.
He takes those and goes to rockthe mic.
This is when he had rock themic, and so that's the process.
Every day is like a day ofmaking beats and then the next
day Jay comes back to the studiowith the song and that was how
it went, like every other day,and then we would add to what he
did.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
He'd add it to the production He'd be like oh I'm
going to change this.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Now that y'all added that I'm going to change this
and that song got done, I meanthat album got done really quick
.
I mean in today's standardsit's not fast, but in those days
it was fast In those days, yeah, yeah, because we weren't
trying to MP3 stuff.
I remember going to the studioone day, going to rock the mic,
cause those were like no sleep.

(44:45):
That was like a month of likenot really sleeping, but you
really moving on adrenaline,cause everything is just dope.
It's like we making this workthat we knew was going to be
something like you know.
So it wasn't, I wasn't tired, Iwas moving, I was, it was, we
was all excited, you know.
Yeah, and I actually wasworking on a Wu album at the
same time while I was doing thatas an A&R I still had an A&R

(45:07):
job.
Okay, that's what I'm saying.
It's all good, it's all good,all right, my bad.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
We'll edit it out.
We'll edit it out, yeah edit itout.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
So I'll say it over again yeah, so I still had an
A&R job, so I was doing theWu-Tang album at the same time.
So I'm juggling back and forth,but I'm feeling really inspired
working on this J record aswell, and we would be back and
forth from record shopping tothe studio.

(45:38):
And I remember one day, afterwe had gotten a bunch of records
done, I was in the midi roommaking beats and L was in A and
he was like yo, come in A.
And I was like, well, I wasjust in A.
He's like no, no, come in Areal quick.
And it was a whole nother thing.

(46:00):
It was Beyonce, LeBron, jay,and they all listened, yeah, and
they all listened to Rock Boys.
You know what I mean?
Wow, it was a dope experience.
Man going back and forth to rockthe mic oh, that was a story I
was going to tell.
I went to rock the mic one day,I guess to give him a beat for

(46:23):
something or whatever, and Jaywas there by himself, I guess,
to give him a beat for somethingor whatever.
And Jay was there by himselfand he was playing American
Dreaming Beat, because that songhad different verses on it
originally.
He had this idea.
It's a verse that he's actuallysaid in a freestyle this shit

(46:47):
right here make you want to goand throw on your fly gear.
And he was like I love thisrhyme and I love this beat, but
I don't think they don't go witheach other.
So he wanted to make a wholenew song, so he wrote American
Dream into it, but then wedidn't have a hook.
So he's in there listening toit and he's like yo, I'm going
to play you something.

(47:08):
He's like I went to the gym andI came back and this was on my
computer and it was AmericanDreaming, with Beyonce doing the
hook.
It's like she just did it.
I never even asked her to do it,she just knows.
She just did it, you know what Imean and we ended up not using
it.
There's a couple songs actuallythat Beyoncé was on on that

(47:28):
album, background stuff LikePray she's still on.
No, not Pray, pray.
She was on, she was doing theprayer, but Sweet is her in the
background saying some of thebackground, the female voices
and Rock Boyz she's a femalevoice in the back.
You know it was a dope time.
I had mad fun making thatrecord.
Yeah, that sounds incredible.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
That sounds amazing.
So after that kind of era, youstarted to get into music
supervision.
Yeah, am I right or wrong?

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
So was it Get Down.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yeah, so I only worked on the get down for
marketing and stuff like that.
I was consulted to make surethat some of that stuff was
authentic to the time.
Yeah, so I wasn't actually onset and stuff like that for the
get down, but I was a consultantfor when they would do certain
things and they were like isthis gonna be hip-hop type shit?

(48:29):
Well yeah, you know what I mean.
Is this authentic to the time,or what?
you know, and giving them ideasand things, the things of that
nature so the first was what wasthe first?
Supervision.
I did the same thing with lukecage and then wu-tang was
actually.
The wu-tang show was the firstthat I went in as a technical
advisor and I would be on setand I would help them, I would

(48:52):
remake songs with them becauseall the artists had to they had
to put their vocals.
Yeah, they had to become thecharacters.
So so I would remake the songswith them, I would coach them
through all of their vocalsrecordings, as well as being on
set, to make sure that they'reperforming it correctly and that
things were accurate to thetime you know I learned a lot

(49:14):
during that period of time and Iwas and that was it was
purposeful, like you know reallywas like I want to get into tv
and film in some sort of way andI went and took some TV classes
and film classes and and itkind of the universe just kind
of dropped that in my lap as thefirst thing, which is crazy,

(49:35):
cause it's like oh, it's Wu Tang, like you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
It's like a full circle, full circle thing, you
know.
So yeah, it was.
It was a dope experience.
Man Shout to, to to.
Stephanie was somebody who haskind of I learned a lot.
She's a music supervisor.
She's kind of like put me underher wing and she's taught me a
lot, you know.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah, I really liked that series.
I mean it got a little offtrack as it went on, but that
first season was was great.
I and I I see I didn't know ifthose guys could play those
people I was like I don't knowhe's going to be Kwan.
I was like Dave, he said meth,but then they did it.
I mean Dirty's son, him, thatwas easy, that wasn't.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Dirty's son.
Dirty's son didn't play him.
That's TJ.
No, no, that's TJ.
He's from Philly.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
He didn't Philly, oh shit.
Okay, then again.
Yeah, yeah, then, ashton whoplayed RZA.
But then when you see the movie, it felt so authentic, like you
felt like you were watchingthem.
And even when they were doingmusic, it felt like at no point
did I think Ashton was notmaking beats for real I don't

(50:47):
know if he was but it felt likeit.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
And that was my job.
I would be on set and I taughthim how to use the MPC.
I'm not the MPC.
I taught him how to use theSB-12.
I taught him how to DJ.
You pick up the needle this waySome things that are so second
nature to me that I didn't thinkyou have to teach somebody to
do.
But realizing a kid, especiallyin that generation I don't think

(51:14):
he had ever even picked aneedle up on a record, probably
not.
He had CDs and you know what Imean.
So when it was so foreign tohim and he was like grabbing it,
I was like whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa.
No, no, you got to hold it andthen I had to remember.
Then I had to do it myself toremember like, well, how do I do
it?
Because it's so second nature,how do I show somebody how to do
it where you don't look likeyou've never done it before?

(51:36):
So I was on set doing thosethings and the kid who played
Ray was really, really dope, inthe sense of I would say he was
very much.
They all were.
But he was one of the firstpeople that I worked with and he
was really dedicated to gettingall of the nuances of Ray Kwan
correct.
And I remember the directorasking me and people looking at

(51:58):
him funny, like why is hewalking?
Like that?
He's walking like a cowboy.
And I was like what do you mean?
And then I was like oh no,that's how Ray walks.
He oh nah that's how.
Ray walks.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
He's walking like Ray .

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Exactly, he's walking like Ray you know he's bow
legged, he walks, that's the wayhe walks.
So he was like really dedicatedto making sure he got all that,
all those little nuances.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
I'm gonna wrap it up real quick.
I don't wanna keep you too long, even though there's so much
more shit, we could do this forthree hours, to be honest, I
mean the answer is so long, butI wanted to make sure you got it
.
No, no, no, it's all good.
It's all good, it's all good.
This is what people want tohear and people are going to be
happy with this one.
I know you've worked with BlackThought on his solo stuff as an

(52:42):
A&R person or as a producer ofboth.
No, as a producer.
As a producer.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Okay, so during that same period, when I was doing
the Wu-Tang and I also I did theRaising King and stuff too.
I worked on that.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Oh, yes, right, yeah, raising King.
Yeah, I actually have thatpower book and stuff written
down, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yeah, streets Need a Body and kind of the same thing
I did on the Wu-Tang.
But I produced that song forthat season, but during that
time or afterwards, tariq hadwent on Flex and spazzed out and
did that, oh, when he spazzedon the freestyle yeah.

(53:21):
I've known Tariq for years.
I met him back during the PunDays because he was on Pun's
first album, super Lyrical, andwe became cool.
So we became really, reallycool throughout the years and I
hit him to just give him propson, you know, show him some love
on Freestyle, and he's like yo,what's up, let's do something.

(53:44):
I was like, bet, after theholidays we'll get in, and so we
booked a session to just messaround or whatever, just to make
some music.
And he had done these streamsof thought volumes.
He had did streams of thought,volume one with Beth Wonder, he
did volume two with Salam, sohim and I did volume three
together.
So that series is him and oneproducer.

(54:06):
So volume three is just me andhim, you know, in the studio
making it.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
You got a Grammy nomination right.
Huh, you got a Grammynomination right, or did you win
?

Speaker 2 (54:17):
a.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Grammy.
Well, we got an NAACPnomination.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
I knew it was something.
Yeah, we got an NAACPnomination.
We went out to you know, Ispent a lot of time on the
Pacific Northwest so I got awhole just people out there as
well and this group, portugal Leman, which is a rock group my
girl actually knew them as welland connected and we got them on

(54:41):
the record and made it a little.
You know, I always try to thinkdifferent, man, and think I do
some other shit, some other shit.
And then my boy, sam, ended upgetting us signed over at a
Republic.
So it was like it came out on amajor label during the period
of time that all the marches andyou know the protests and all
that, george.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Floyd and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yeah, it was something that's kind of spoke
to that and I was going.
You know I was seeing all ofthat Like in Seattle.
You know we were feeding theprotesters.
I seen the whole like when theytook over a whole neighborhood
in Seattle.
Wow, you know, like so a lot ofthat is in the album.
You know that was what wasfeeding me during that time, wow

(55:25):
wow, so tell me what's comingup.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
What's next?

Speaker 2 (55:31):
I've started this.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
My partner and I Dan.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Glowgower and a couple other people.
We have a new venture calledPrinciples.
It's just based on the timelessprinciples, principles.
And it's just based on, youknow, the timeless principles.
You know principles endure time, the guidelines that help you
endure time.
So, even though we've beenaround for you know, we have the
experience of being aroundcertain things that don't change
, and we're a music solutionscompany as well as consultants.

(56:00):
So we have, like, paramount asa client, we have Red Bull as a
client.
So, yeah, it's been been.
It's really dope.
I'm really excited abouteverything that we're doing, you
know, helping artists findtheir fan base, as well as

(56:22):
helping established artists,just you know, see their vision
Regenerate themselves.
Yeah, a vision from beginningto end.
And you know we have.
We do everything from digitalmarketing to me making records
for people.
To, you know, helping marketyour catalog.
To you know it's a full service, full service company.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Yeah, that's dope.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Now Dan, does he live in?

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Jersey.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yeah, dan's in Jersey , dan's still in Jersey, yeah.
Dan's in Jersey, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Telling myself what's up for sure.
Yeah, telling myself what's upfor sure.
I haven't talked to him inquite a while, but he's a real
good dude.
All right, sean, I got a coupleof questions for you.
I ask everybody these questionsat the end of the show.
I want to get your feedback onthem.
So give me an artist that youwanted to Wow.
Tell me the story.
I was able to answer that madfast.

(57:06):
You was mad fast, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Pause baby, I don't know.
I mean it was Kanye you know,and it was kind of
self-explanatory Hip-hop hadplayed me the album.
We met a few times.
Kanye actually worked on thefirst Dead Prez album, did a
remix.
I thought he was just superdope, you know.
I mean, we all know what heturned into.
I didn't see that but I knewthat he was just dope.

(57:33):
The music was.
He was a throwback to what youknow Native Tongues Tribe, just
kind of like you know, we knowwhat Kanye was.
So it's kind of like you know,we know what Kanye was.
So it's kind of sad and Iwasn't able to do it because
Lyle was folding at the time.
So it was like right at thatpoint when Lyle was folding, so

(57:56):
I didn't want to even wasteanybody's time.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
It wasn't public knowledge.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
But you know, I knew it.
No one and Stephen Rich didn'teven.
Really they wouldn't admit toit, but we all knew it was
coming.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Yeah, rich didn't even really they wouldn't admit
to it.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
But we all knew it was coming.
You didn't want to get himjammed up.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
I had the album Dancer Kanye would have been a
loud artist.
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
I don't know if the deal would have happened, but I
wanted it to I think it wasduring that period of time when
he was going around to all ofthe different labels because we
saw the doc and that was.
That was one of the artiststhat I that I wanted to sign um
at loud okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
So tell me three of your favorite artists and why
and I'm not talking about it,could be anybody, not not people
that you work with, but just inlife, in life, yeah just in
general.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
My favorite rap group is De La Soul because of the
same reason why I wanted to signKanye Because I felt like they
pushed the envelope.
They were the first to beintrospective.
I don't know if I want to sayintrospective but be vulnerable.
There was nothing like thembefore.
I always liked artists thatbreak new ground.

(59:07):
There was nothing like them andthey really spoke to me.
I love the way they flip thesamples and all that.
My favorite rapper right now,though this could be anything.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
It could be anything.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Yeah, I got you.
James Brown would be myfavorite as far as when it comes
to just music in general.
He covered so much ground, hebroke ground you know what's so
interesting is about James Brownthat I didn't think about till
later on, like maybe in the last10, 15 years years?

(59:46):
Is that realizing that backthen there was so many people
that even though he was like hewas the king at one point, but
there were a lot of people thatdidn't like him because they
felt like he was just yellingand he wasn't really being
musical.
He wasn't like makingconventional songs was more
groove, he was a little Motowntype thing, you know.

(01:00:07):
Yeah, it was more like just, itwas like jamming almost thing.
You know?
Yeah, it was more like just, itwas like jamming almost.
You know what I'm saying yeahthat's just a lot of it and it
was mostly feeling.
A lot of it didn't musicallymake sense and something you
know on some songs and you canequate that to like party
records now or you know partyrecords in the 2000s and what,
what cool and scoop and allthose guys.

(01:00:28):
It's like that kind of feel Imean he had this is a man's
world and he had his ballads.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
But, um, for the most part, yeah, james is one of my,
one of my favorites, justbecause I mean I think that's
self-explanatory too yeah, it'san interesting thing about james
, like if you really and I knowyou've figured this out when you
really listen, he's actuallytelling the band what to do.

(01:00:55):
Yeah, he's telling them come innow break it down.
That means break it down.
He's not just saying that shit,and the way the band is moving,
what he's telling them to do isincredible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Yeah, exactly Two times.
Yeah, two times.
He's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Give me a third.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yeah, third Artists of all time.
Yeah, damn, you caught me offguard with that Everybody says,
that Everybody says that, yeah,because it's hard to pinpoint
down the three artists becausethere's so many.
And then, as soon as we werefinished, I'm going to be like
oh.
I should have said this, andthen you want to say you want to

(01:01:32):
say the answer.
That makes you look real artsy.
Yeah, I'm deep.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
I'm deep with it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
No, oh, but yeah, I think Daylight is my favorite.
They're just one of my favoritegroups.
They're just one of my favoritegroups.
James, oh, man, hard yo,because I'm thinking producers
as well.
I'm thinking damn, jeff.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
These questions stump everybody.
Every time I ask them they belike what?
They be really thrown.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Yeah, because you got to give me more than three.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Nah, you only get three because we got to move on
to the next topic.
You only getting three.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Every topic is three.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Oh man, Every topic is three.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Man I'm going to say it's not really true though.
There's so many yo, it's hardto pin it down to three man.
So I'm going to just say youknow, well, I said Daylight is
hip-hop and James is hip-hop too, but you know, hip-hop too, but
you know, yeah, so Damn.
I'm going to say damn, that'sdamn, because I would say Jay,

(01:02:38):
as a rapper, I thought you weregoing to say Jay yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
I'll say Jay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
I'll say Jay as a rapper.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Okay, that's a good one.
Now name me three of yourfavorite songs you worked on and
tell me why.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Not artists.
Songs, Three of them.
Okay, I'll say song, the wholesong, not just the beat, the
song.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Whatever, whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Doesn't matter.
Well, one of my favorite beatsOkay, I will say 100% from Big
Pun is one of my favorite beatsand songs that I ever did,
because of what it meant, whatit meant to a certain
demographic, and I always saylike that you wouldn't think
that a black dude made thePuerto Rican anthem, right, and

(01:03:24):
it's such a mix, like the thingsthat made that record.
It's a mix of differentcultures.
So it's a black dude that madethe beat.
The engineer Soundboy isColombian, the guy who played
percussions on it was Dominican.
Okay, the sample is some CheGuevara, some of the Che Guevara

(01:03:44):
soundtrack, wow.
And then the rapper was PuertoRican.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
Yeah, so it was like a mix.
You know how do you bite that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Yeah, it's like a big gumbo of black and Latin.
Yeah, you know that made thatrecord and you know, and it's
always going to be around for acertain oh, yeah, always.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
You're going to hear that in the summertime somewhere
.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Yeah, for a certain.
Oh yeah, Always You're going tohear that in the summertime
somewhere.
Yeah, it's going to mean somuch.
So I'm proud that I was there,that God put me in that position
to be able to make that songwhere all the pieces kind of
came together for that.
And then I'd say Rock Boyswould be my second that I
produced, because it marked aspecific.

(01:04:30):
I mean, every song marks a time, but that for me marked a
specific time of a change in mylife of things changing and
going in a certain direction.
And then the third song would beyou know what I'm going to say
a song that probably nobody everheard.
I wouldn't say ever heard, butit was like a song that didn't

(01:04:50):
even do anything, because it wasthe first beat that I ever saw.
Okay, and it's on the Bad Boyssoundtrack.
The first, the Will Smith andMartin movie.
It's called Clouds of Smoke, bythis group, called Call of the
Wild from Polar Grounds.
My boy, barry I went to highschool with him Okay, and that's

(01:05:12):
the first beat that I.
That's the first time I made abeat and got money for making a
beat, got paid for it and I gotpaid for it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
That was your intro into actual business.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Yeah, that's the first time I ever got paid for
making a beat Cool, so thatmeant that meant a lot to me
paid for making a beat, so thatmeant that meant a lot to me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
okay, okay, and this is the last one, name me three
of your favorite producers, andwhy quincy jones?

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
okay, again, self-explanatory we don't know
what.
You know quincy jones, becausehe, he covered all genres and he
did so much throughout hiswhole decade and he never, and I
feel like he is the you.
You know he's a North Star, youknow what I mean?
Yeah, you know, he's theexample of how long you could do
it too, true, and doingtelevision music.

(01:05:55):
Just him as an entity.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Film, all kinds of everything, yeah, he trumps.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
You know, he trumps everything, yeah, yeah, and all
genres and a similar reason.
Rick Rubin for a similar reason.
Okay, and a similar reason.
Rick Rubin for a similar reason.
Not the movie, film thing, butthe fact that he was able to do
LL Cool J, the Beastie Boys andJohnny Cash, yeah, and Red Hot
Chili Peppers and Red Hot ChiliPeppers.

(01:06:20):
Yeah.
And then come back and do Jay-Z.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
And I like to work withalternative rock shit too, like
Portugal.
Man, my guys, you know weworked at Linkin Park.
I've always kind of seen thatas not being something that was
so much of a stretch, like it'sall music.
You know what I mean when itcomes down to it.

(01:06:40):
So Rick Rubin for that reason,and then Dre.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Self-explanatory as well.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Yeah, self-explanatory.
He's Dr Dre and he's alwaysable to create the world and
have his own sound and all thoseguys have that sound.
He created this whole thing andI always looked at producing
and beat making.
Like we know, they're twodifferent things, totally
different.
It's ill dudes that can chop upsamples and you know now

(01:07:11):
pharrell is super ill, like it'sit's.
It's not fair to ask three man,because then you got pharrell
and you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Like I mean, there's a yeah, there's a million, but
yeah, and the time?

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
and just that.
Longevity.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
And pharrell, tim like this is like yeah, you got.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Pharrell Primo, you know what I'm saying, but I
think I don't think anybodycould argue with me about those
three guys and they transcendtrends and you know what I mean
and whatever's going on the wave, or they just still stay doing
what they do.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
It's not like Quincy Jones started trying to make rap
records and shit.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Right, right, I mean he did do the joint with Big
Daddy Kane.
I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
I forgot about that.
I forgot about that one Cool.
That's it, man.
Those are the questions I askeverybody at the end of the show
to see where they're at with it.
You sure you want to change anyanswers before we go?
I?

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
mean I did want to add some younger shit in there,
because I did say all old assniggas.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Name a couple young niggas.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
You know who I think is a super dope producer right
now is Soundwave, soundwave,soundtrack, soundwave, soundwave
.
I feel like Soundwave doesn'tget talked about enough at all
he's ill that kid is fucking andhe's not a kid, but that dude
is amazing.
Like listen to all those.

(01:08:38):
Kendrick records and how he'sable to weave all that stuff
together.
And Sonics, he's super dope.
I really really like that kid alot, you know.
No, he's dope Next time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
I have really like that kid a lot, you know.
Yeah, no, he's dope.
Next time I have you on, we'lltalk about your foodie shit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Oh yeah, without a doubt.
You know I'm the other kind ofsnap boy bro.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
You know, talk about your palate as they say yes, yes
, so my brother's a chef, sothat's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Exactly, and I'm seeing like it's interesting to
me because you know social mediayou see so much more and I'm
definitely seeing a foodiegrowth with young, younger black
people that are really into it.
I'm seeing I think I wassupposed to forward that to you
and I don't know if I did yetbut there's a guy in New York
that does the dinner parties.
Like it's kind of becoming awhole thing and I think it could

(01:09:28):
be a way somehow to incorporatemusic into that.
I'm not sure how, but it feelslike some cross-pollination with
it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
You know, I was talking to Shy Money yesterday
and I told him and it's just, Ikind of freestyled it it just
actually came up, we were justcatching, just talking, and you
know how you talk to someone orsee someone you haven't seen in
a while and you're always likeyo, we got to catch up, man, yo,
we got to catch up.
And with us losing so manypeople, I want to start like I

(01:09:58):
don't know monthly probably notmonthly, but maybe every few
months a little get-together.
It could be drinks, it could befood, with like-minded
individuals that we all came up.
Either we came up together orsix degrees of separation with
yeah, you know, but like you, me, you know yeah, yeah yeah, we

(01:10:18):
have like-minded friends.
You know what I mean.
We all have a certain thing,and it doesn't have to always be
about business, but businesswill probably get done during
that, but just making sureeverybody kind of stays in touch
.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
I think you're right.
You said something key.
I think a lot of times when weall talk about getting together,
it feels like, oh yeah, we'regoing to get together and
there's something business willcome out of that.
And it doesn't necessarily haveto be like that.
It should just be gettingtogether because you know we're
not 22 anymore and to gettogether because you know we're
not 22 anymore and you knowpeople, we've lost some people
and we just need to kind of stayin touch and business probably

(01:10:52):
will come out of it.
But that should not be the goal.
It should just be like, no,we're getting together just
because we haven't seen eachother in a while.
We're talking and catching upExactly.
You know, and if business comesout of it, then so be it, but it
shouldn't be the focus.
Like I'm doing this shitbecause I'm trying to get this
project off.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Right, exactly.
It should just be catching upBecause you have so you see
people, you have incredibleconversations and then you know
about what's going on with theirfamily and their health and you
know what I mean.
Exactly, exactly.
It's something that we shoulddefinitely do.
I'm going to try to set that upthis year.
At least do one or two of them,please.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
I think it's, and I mean going along.
I'm going to wrap it up afterthis.
I think I'm watching, even onthe club kind of club I'm doing
air quotes scene.
I'm watching things become.
People kind of want moreintimacy, like the whole kind of
big club, and it's 2,000 peoplein there.
I don't know if that I meanthere's going to be that, but I
think I'm watching on socialmedia people doing parties in

(01:11:56):
their crib and in their house orsmall spaces and people kind of
want that intimacy.
And I think that leads to whatyou're talking about too Just a
few people getting together andjust chopping it up about, like
I said, about their family orwhatever it is.
And it doesn't have to be thisbig, overblown thing.
It could just be like you know,it doesn't have to be some
super fly restaurant we went tofucking Friday's.

(01:12:18):
You know what I'm saying as longas we all got together.
You know, without a doubt, Ireally appreciate you coming
through, man.
Like I said, we could have donean easy three hours, you know,
but I think there's a lot ofinformation spread, a lot of
good stories told.
I mean, this is a good episode.

(01:12:38):
I hope I was able to fulfillthe content needs the content
guys.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
I appreciate it, but you know, I think people don't
really realize.
You know and I talked to youabout this on the phone of what
you have done and who you are.
So I'm happy that you have thisplatform because, even though
you're asking the questions, wecould, all you know, always
still get back to you and givepeople information about you.
You, the og, really you knowwhat I mean from you as well.
You, og, really you know what.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
I mean yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
I learned from you as well, you know, just being that
first person that I knew thathad an A&R job.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Thank you, I appreciate thatman.
I just wanted to do thisbecause I think I mean, I don't
think I know there's a lot ofpeople with a lot of stories
that don't get told, and youknow this because people like
Quincy Jones and Clara St Vaughnhave passed away I'm like damn,
like some of those, some ofthose stories will never be told

(01:13:33):
because they're not here.
So, I was like let me get getwith you know my generation of
of music people and let themtell their stories.
You know, in the work words ofthe American poet Lauret CeeLo
Green, I thank the Lord that myvoice was recordable.
You know what I'm saying.
That's a dope-ass line.
Yeah, I mean, ceelo was amazing.

(01:13:55):
So you know, I want to putpeople's story on tape, film,
whatever you call it, and justhave it.
It's always going to be therefor them, for their kids, you
know, for everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
I appreciate it, man.
I got a blessed life man andI'm super grateful man.
I'm so grateful I'm in a happyplace, I'm in a great place,
like just being able to do whatI love and always kind of
navigate myself.
In this part of my life, inthis part of my career.
I try to choose things that arefeeding either my growth or

(01:14:29):
just that are just making mehappy, things that make me grow.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
That's how I feel about doing this.
I think I'm happy doing this.
It's making me happy.
I don't know where it's goingto go, I don't know, but I'm
riding it, yeah, just do itEvery time.
I do one of these interviews.
I'm like I.
Every time I do another one ofthese interviews, I'm like I
think I got something.

Speaker 4 (01:14:49):
I'm really happy with this.
You do, you do, yeah, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
Thank you, Sean C.
All right man, Thank you, bro.
Mixed and mastered.
I appreciate it.
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