March 17, 2025 • 48 mins
How do unknown artists become household names? On this episode of Mixed and Mastered, legendary A&R Shawn Barron pulls back the curtain on the moves that shaped modern music—from discovering Drake on MySpace to signing Ty Dolla $ign against all odds, and spotting Leon Thomas at a traffic light.
Shawn keeps it real on trusting your gut over chasing trends, almost signing Kendrick Lamar, and crafting hits with Kanye West and Bruno Mars. This episode is packed with rare industry gems—tap in and hear how the hits really get Mixed and Mastered.
Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered, the podcast where the
stories of the music industrycome to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
(00:29):
Okay, we're here at Mixed andMastered.
One of my favorite people, seanBarry from Buffalo, new York.
Buffalo's finest, appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, man, thank you forappearing, man.
I'm looking forward to thisinterview.
It's going me.
Yeah, man, thank you forappearing man.
I'm looking forward to thisinterview.
It's going to be good man, solike.
I said you grew up in Buffalo,new York, you know, with
(00:52):
Westside, gunn and Benny and allthose guys.
Yes, sir, home of Rick James.
Yes, sir, wait, do y'all count?
Is it Niagara Falls?
That's not you.
Is that Buffalo?
I mean, I mean, that's closeenough, it's close enough, right
, close enough.
It's like 20 minutes away,exactly in the home of the.
(01:13):
I remember years ago, man, whenI did I did promotions before I
did um A&R and in one of mystations was WBLK okay, yeah, in
Buffalo.
And I remember going up thereand a guy the program director,
music director at the time, theguy named Roger, came in his
last name.
He's good dude.
He took me to the place wherehe said they invented buffalo
wings, the Anchor Bar yeah, somerestaurant, those are not the
best wings.
They wasn't really fine.
(01:35):
But I was like these ain'treally that good.
I respect you bringing me here,but these ain't really lit.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's other spots way better, way I figured.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Tell me a little bit about growing up in buffalo.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
No, it was good I had a had a cool childhood.
Was was heavy going outsideevery day with my friends.
Uh was playing basketballalmost every day.
That was like my thing.
Yeah, just had.
I had a cool childhood justriding my bike around the
neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Regular kid stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, regular kid stuff outside every day.
The computer didn't come untillater on.
I think I got a computer when Iwas in eighth or ninth grade,
so that's when that came alongand then I was more so on the
computer and doing all thatstuff.
But yeah, just regularchildhood regular.
How did you?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
tap into the music.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think my mom had a part to play in
that.
She was always playing musicaround the house.
My cousin was a DJ and he stillis a DJ.
Shout out to Jay Tech, he's aDJ down here in Atlanta right
now.
Okay, he was at the radiostation at V106.
Okay, so shout out107.
Okay, so shout out to him.
Sorry about that.
(02:49):
No, that's all good.
Yeah, so shout out to him.
He was a DJ.
He put me on to a lot of stuff.
I remember hearing early Nas,early Big L, all that stuff from
him.
So shout out to him.
And then I just think that,yeah, I just loved music.
I was always into it.
I was always looking for thenewest songs.
(03:10):
I was always looking for thenew artists and, yeah, just
being outside too, like in here,having cars go by and just
playing all the new stuff.
I remember hearing nori for thefirst time, n-o-r-e nori.
I had Nori for the first time,n-o-r-e Nori.
I had somebody inspire for thefirst time and I was like what's
that?
Yeah, just all stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Being in it, yeah, being in it.
So you played ball.
You still play, man, I haven'tplayed ball in forever.
You gave it up.
You let it go.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I got to get back out there, though.
No, I want to get back outthere, I just haven't.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I haven't played you busy, you busy every time, you
know yeah busy.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Uh, grew up playing.
Baldo was playing every day,hours and hours a day.
Yeah, when I went to highschool I ended up playing.
Varsity started for three years.
I got some accomplishmentsfirst team all catholic because
I went to a catholic school,okay.
So yeah, I was a hooper cool,cool, cool.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And I know, I know the hooping took you to college.
You played in seton hall yep,yep, I didn't play.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
So I made the team, but I ended up not playing okay
the coach was like, since I wasa walk-on, it really wasn't a
spot for me.
He was like you'll make theteam, you'll practice with the
team, you'll travel, but you'renot gonna play in any games.
And that sort of likediscouraged me.
But I should have just keptgoing because I was good.
I would probably ended upplaying, but I just let those
(04:27):
words discourage me and then waslooking for my next outlet and
that's when music came into thespotlight.
So tell us about that.
How did that happen?
Yeah, my homie a butter.
He was a rapper and he was likeyo, you should manage me.
And I didn't know what to do.
So I went and got an internshipand I ended up interning at
Republic Records, the buildingon 57th and Broadway.
(04:50):
I was going there three times aweek and just learning a bunch
of stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
It was cool.
Who'd you work for over atRepublic?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I worked for it was this dude named Jordan Walker,
and so I interned in new media,which is like digital marketing,
now Yep Slash A&R.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And at that time sorry about that At that time it
was MySpace.
That was like the big thing.
So he was searching for artistson MySpace and he like taught me
like how to go through thethree columns and search for all
the artists you could likepinpoint cities, countries.
It was crazy, yeah, yeah.
Three columns and searched forall the artists you could like
pinpoint cities, countries.
It was crazy, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He taught me how to do that andthe first artist who I came up
(05:31):
on doing that was drake and thatsort of like led to you know,
that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That's crazy.
So I know you said you reachedout to drake and had a
conversation with him so I Ireached out to.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So after my internship I started working at
Koch, so this was the time whenJim Jones was over there.
He had just dropped balling.
Dj Khaled was over there.
Ray J was over there when hedid sexy, can I?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
yeah, yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
It was a real machine at that time.
So, yeah, I hit Drake up likemonths before I even started
working at Koch.
I hit him, he hit me back, hesent me his info and he just so
happened to be in New York for aDegrassi thing.
So I remember he was like yocome meet with me the day before
the meeting.
So we went to his hotel he wasstaying at the the time hotel,
(06:26):
okay, yeah, yeah, the time willtell you.
Stand there with me and myhomie danny went there.
We chopped it up with him andthe next day we brought him in
for a meeting with alan.
And what was the vibe?
like back then um, he was supercool.
He just wanted to work.
I remember him like mentioningkanye and pharrell at that time,
which is funny, where you know,yeah, um yeah, he was super
(06:51):
cool, super humble.
Um, I mean, he still seems thesame way to this day.
I haven't spoken to him inforever, but he still seems like
a humble guy, yeah, but uh,yeah, we brought him up there.
They unfortunately passed onthem and then I just started
telling other people about themand that's how I met mike karen
okay, okay, so tell me aboutthat.
Well, mike, mike, mike thescientist, yeah so, uh, it's
(07:16):
funny, me and my homie danny, wewas doing like unsigned artist
showcases in new york, so uhwhere did you do those showcases
in New York?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Where did you do those showcases?
Man I got to remember.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
We did them at two different places.
I forgot which places they were, but the first one we had
Mickey Facts, we had Currency,we had Nipsey Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, it was crazy, the people you had eventually
got signed.
Yeah, yeah, they eventually gotsigned.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
We was definitely on to something.
So, uh, we had made a flyer andwe just emailed the fly.
We got a list of industrycontacts and we just emailed it
to everybody and mike caron hitme back.
He was like yo, this is dope.
He's like send me whateverartists and producers that you
think I should be looking at.
So I sent him drake and I senthim a bunch of other stuff that
I was looking at at the time.
(08:06):
And we stayed in contact andright after so, 2009 came around
and we all got laid off at Koch.
It was the recession and it wasjust one of those times.
So I was like what am I goingto do next?
So I found this artist onMySpace.
His name was Amiro Bay at thattime.
He's going by Fresh, he Does itand I sent it to Mike and Mike
(08:29):
was like yo, this is crazy.
He flew us out to LA literallythe next week and then he signed
him and gave me a job atAtlantic.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So Amiro Bay, that's not the kid from Portland.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
No, no, he's from well, he's from Detroit, okay,
and Brooklyn, he's from both,but I think he just he was
signed to Def Jam after he gotoff Atlantic okay, okay, yeah,
cool.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So you got him signed over.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Atlantic.
And, yeah, he gave me an A&Rjob and and literally got thrown
into the fire.
I didn't know what I was doing.
I was just up there.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I knew music, of course the process of doing a
and r how to make records, and Ididn't really know what I was
doing but, in the fire and Ilearned, I learned quickly.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
he definitely taught me like the process of song
making and and making hit songsand all that stuff and I just
took it and I soaked it in and Ijust added it to you know
because, because I go forfeeling, so I added the process
of making a hit record to thefeeling and it's history ever
since.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, I think I hate to sound like the old dude you
know what I'm saying back in myday, but I think that a lot of
what you said, that feelingthing, is missing more now.
There are records that havefeeling it's not like nobody's
doing it.
There are plenty of peopledoing it.
You know Drake, kendrick,future, whatever we could keep
(09:53):
naming them.
But there are a lot of peoplethat don't understand that
feeling part.
No, for sure, I agree.
I mean, I think that's whythere's a lot of older records
that still you know the MichaelJacksons or you know Teddy
Pendergrass, whatever they still40, 50 years later.
It's because of how they feel.
(10:13):
For sure they're great recordstoo, those records come out
today and still like hit thesame way, absolutely, because
again, they're great songs, youknow they're written properly,
all that stuff.
Because, again, they're greatsongs, you know they're written
properly, all that stuff.
You just hear something thatjust feels inside your body as
it pauses, instead of just likethis is a great record, but it
doesn't make you feel any kindof way, you know?
Sure.
(10:34):
So, without giving away all mysecrets, tell us a little bit
about what you learned about theprocess of actually making
records from him.
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, so I was in the studio for my first two, three
years nonstop.
First we were up at Paramountand then we were there for a
year and then he ended up buyingthat building on Cahuenga.
We were in that building.
So I was literally in thestudio from 11 am until whenever
(11:05):
I left, every day, and we werehaving every major songwriter,
every major producer in the gamecoming up, you know, making
songs for us.
So you got to think like Miguelearly, Miguel early, Miguel
early Frank Ocean early.
Ty Dolla, $ign early, jeremiahearly whoever you could think of
(11:28):
was coming up there writingsongs for us and producing for
us.
So it was just an amazing timeup there going to his.
He had a.
He had a rule book in everyroom with several rules of song
writing and I mean they.
They worked.
So one of the rules was likerepetition.
Another one was like when youspell something like Boosie, did
(11:48):
I N, d, e, it's like thatalways works.
Asking a question like it wasjust a whole bunch of different
things that you implement to thesong to, like you know, make
sure it was a hit and I don'tknow Again.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
You know I hate to sound like you sound like the
back of my day guy because Idon't know how it goes now but
what you said about all thosepeople coming through the studio
you really learn a lot bywatching how people work.
I'm sure Frank and Ty don'twork the same, even though they
both are phenomenal, but theyhave different approaches so you
(12:23):
kind of learn things.
When I worked at Jive, thestudio was called Battery
Studios.
We were on 10, and Battery wasin the same building.
It was on 7.
So we'd always go downstairsand I learned so much about
sitting in the studio andwatching people work and how
they use this and how they makebeats and how they really kind
(12:43):
of soak up a lot of information.
So I just hope you had thatexperience.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, no, I mean even more.
I mean Bruno used to be inthere before.
He had a record that went crazy.
So yeah, just sitting in thereseeing these people's processes
and how they make songs, I justsoaked it all up.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Is anybody in particular that stood out I mean
, besides Ty, we'll get to laterparticular that stood out to
you as far as their processesand how they worked?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, I mean a lot of people.
Pop Ronsel was another one whowas early.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Seeing him work was amazing, man.
I mean it was so literally wehad like the pick of the pick
when we was working, so it wasjust everybody who was in there.
It was just a great time.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
That's incredible.
Um so now wait, do you work?
You worked with johnny shakesfor a minute as well, correct?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
so after I got let go from kotch then I worked with
shipes for like three or fourmonths oh quick it was quick.
Yeah, it was real quick, but uh, it was still impactful.
I still learned a lot overthere.
I remember he had me take likeeight boxes of mixtapes.
It was Nipsey Bullets, ain'tGot no Name.
(13:51):
I forgot which volume it was,but he had me take like eight
boxes on this cart to the mail,to UPS.
It was crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Walking down the street.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, walking down the street with eight big boxes
of mixtapes to get them out.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
It was crazy, now had he signed joy badass by that
point it was.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
It was just nipsey and I think he had smoked and
I'm trying to think did he haveanybody else?
Nipsey was like the main focusgrinding it out.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, that's cool.
So so you worked with Mike, yousigned your guy, and so after
that you worked with him.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
So after I got Fresh signed then technically that
wasn't my signing, that wasMike's signing.
He signed our artist.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
My first signing was Diggy Simmons, so I brought him
up there and this was Did youconnect with diggy via kind of
watching the, the.
at that time the reality showruns house, or you just know he
had put out a freestyle where hewas rapping on the rooftop and
everybody had started to see itand it was going viral at that
(14:57):
time and I was like man, thiskid is crazy.
Through my homie brad I knewone of diggy's friends and I
reached out to him and heconnected us on the phone.
Okay, yeah.
And then we started chopping itup.
I met with Rev and the wholeteam, perry and Chris Lighty
yeah, yeah, rest in peace.
Yeah, but yeah, I sat with themand then we brought them up and
(15:21):
we ended up doing a deal.
Wow.
And then, right after we didthe deal, he did another
freestyle.
Then Kanye had this thingcalled Kanye University where he
was just posting.
I remember that he ended upposting Diggy and then it just
like boom.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
It was like crazy yeah, lucky you already had him
signed by that point.
Yep, yep, it would have beensuper competitive.
For sure.
So I always wanted to ask that,because as A&R people, we
always have these stories.
Is Diggy your one that youthought was going to go but it
just didn't work?
Was it kind of like I know it'syou?
(15:56):
Was it just not the time forhim?
Because sometimes things areway ahead of?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
time.
Yeah, I think it was timing.
I feel like at that time it wasa lot of kid artists at that
time, so it was Diggy.
And then it was like Lil Twisttime.
It was a lot of kid artists atthat time, so it was diggy, and
then it was like little twistsand it was mindless behavior and
jacob latimore and it was justlike a certain resurgence of
kids.
Yeah, we had like at the head ofthat was diggy and mindless
behavior.
Those was like the two who werelike standing out and we we had
(16:23):
a hit record on diggy, therecord with jeremiah that did
great.
But uh, yeah, when we put outthis it just and I attribute a
lot of that to like music,digital downloads at that time
too- Break it down.
We weren't in the streamingarea yet, so a lot of people
were just pirating his album.
So I feel like you know thatcontributed.
(16:44):
It was just a weird time inmusic.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Sometimes it's not really theyou know you.
You'd be like did I make amistake?
It's like, nah, nah, that'sjust that you know the timing or
something, or a hiccup in theroad, whatever, somebody, maybe
your boss, got fired, it's allkind of 100 things that could
kind of sway in our career frombeing what you thought it was
going to be to not quite makingthat jump.
(17:07):
It's not that the was whack, itwas just kind of like things
were.
Just you know I think he wasrespected.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I think people respected the project, uh, and I
think that I mean I don't thinkI know he had a hit.
He had a hit single, um, so Iknow that that gave us like a
diving board.
But then he's sort of like Ifeel like he was in the
spotlight a lot in his youngerage and he sort of like wanted
to shy away from it after we putout that album.
So he didn't like keep going.
(17:34):
If we would have kept going,then we would have beat.
You know what we supposed to do?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, Because it doesn't always happen.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No, it never happens on the first go.
You got to just keep going.
Yeah, yeah, he kind of checkedout a little bit.
Yeah, he kind of checked out.
So then that left me in a kindof bad predicament and I was
like, what am I gonna do?
So, uh, I know I had ty comingto the studio just writing and
you know doing a lot of stuff.
I got him a placement on treysongs album and you know a
(18:05):
couple other things.
He was like yo, I got thismixtape I want you to hear.
It ended up being Beach House 1.
I was like man, this is amazing.
I ended up signing him.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I remember my boy Ike .
He played that tape for me thefirst time.
He was like you heard this TyDolla $ign guy.
I think I might have heard Tysing on a couple of records, but
I didn't know it would work.
And I was like you know, Iain't going to lie, I was being
a dickhead.
I was like nah, I ain't heardthat.
You know what I mean.
He sings on some people's songsand he played the tape and,
like you said, I was like wait,what?
(18:39):
Yeah, this like I just thoughthe was like a singer stuck on a
couple hooks.
I didn't know the depth of histalent.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It was like jesus guys yeah, you know, I mean
neither, neither did atlanticwhen I first signed him either,
just going back to that.
So when I first signed him, notgonna say who, but then, uh,
when I, when I, right before Isigned, it was like yo, he's a
disgrace to the label.
And they went back and toldcraig.
So I never forget, forget, Iwas in Atlanta with Allie boy.
Allie boy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
We got to get to him too.
I know I was in Atlanta withAllie boy.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
He was in Hot Beats I'll never forget.
And Craig called me.
He was like.
He was like.
Craig was like someone so saidthat Ty Dolla is a disgrace to
the label.
He's like why are we signinghim?
And I just snapped he's like,calm down, calm down.
He's like we're going to signhim.
We're going to sign him.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
But you know what, knowing Craig, if you hadn't
have spazzed, you might not havegot the deal.
I think he was.
I'm talking shit because I wasover there, but knowing Craig a
bit, he probably was alsotesting your passion for it.
Yeah, I think he was.
Yeah, you going to put yourfoot down?
Are you going to like, let mekind of sway you away from this?
Are you going to like pushthrough?
(19:53):
So that was good that youspazzed, you know obviously,
yeah, spazzed, we got the dealdone.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
But they still didn't get it at first.
But the one person who did getit was young Jeezy.
He was in our meetings at thetime.
He was a SVP or VP at the time.
Then I brought him in to dosome things and he heard yeah,
when I played Beach House 1 inour meeting, jeezy was like man,
this shit is crazy.
(20:17):
He was like man, this kid aboutto be huge.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
It was crazy.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah, he knew he was crazy.
He ended up popping on one ofthe records and did the video
with Ty and that was like thebig first moment for us.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That's dope.
So before we move forward Ineed to hear, like at least one.
So I didn't know Allie Boy, butwhen I was in college I was
trying to sign Big Bang, bigBang, yeah, and he had the
record with Candy Burris.
Yep, yep, I had my boy City.
He knew him and we did a wholemeeting.
The bank came out.
See, candy wasn't there.
But the bank came, was his mannamed Rico?
(20:51):
Yeah, rico, yeah, rico wasthere.
It was right before Christmasof whatever year that was, and
that's the case.
We met at the hotel lobby atthe W in Atlanta and I liked the
bank.
I mean everybody kind of toldme.
Yeah, everybody kind of told me.
Yeah, they kind of told me whatyou know, where they come from
or whatever.
That never scares me, but Ireally liked him.
(21:12):
I was like boy, I like this guy, Like he's like really cool,
real personable, like it wasn'ton no funny shit.
We didn't get the deal done.
I'll tell you offline whathappened, but we didn't get the
deal done.
I was really disappointed, butthat's.
They were mentioning Alibecause he was part of the
Duckman crew at the time.
So tell us one or two Alistories.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I mean, I have so many stories Without a crew,
there ain't nobody, yeah, I mean.
So one story I remember is weused to record in these
apartments.
I don't remember where they was, I just know they was in the
hood.
This is like it was crazy, soI'm we turned in there every day
recording in this hood spot,and I remember I met this dude
(21:52):
named Killer B there and KillerB just did Beyonce.
He's up for a Grammy today.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
What.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, which is crazy.
He was in this little hood-assapartment making music with us,
but now he's up, I forgot itmight be 16 Carriages or
whatever song wow wow yeah, younever know, you never know I met
color b in the hood with alleyboy.
That was crazy.
Another time I'll never forgetit was suge knight, alley boy.
(22:22):
Who else was in there?
The basketball player, who'scrazy?
Ron artes, no, not ron artis.
Man, what's his name?
Stephen jackson?
Yeah, stack, yeah, all in thestudio, guns falling on the
ground, like I'm like man, Igotta get the hell up out here.
(22:42):
I remember something one of thehomeboys guns fell on the
ground and it was like aimedtowards me but it didn't go off
and I was like, oh, this is mycue, I got to go.
Wow, that's funny, man, that'sfunny.
I loved Allie Boy though that'smy brother.
I was with him almost every dayfor like a year and we did some
great things.
It just didn't translate theway.
Alley Boy, big Bank yeah, yeah,that was like a movement.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
You were kind of early in it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
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Speaker 4 (23:31):
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Speaker 1 (23:52):
Cool and tell us a little bit about Cap G, who you
also signed Atlantic.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, cap G.
So KP a shout out to KP.
He ended up signing Cap G.
I want to say he signed Cap Garound the same time that I
ended up signing Ty.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So he was on the label.
I know they was trying tofigure it out.
And then, right before I wantto say like a year or two years
later, before KP was about toleave the label, he had called
me down to Atlanta to come tothe studio and I came by and he
was like yo, I respect whatyou're doing.
He's like I want you to work onCap G and, you know, try to
help us figure it out.
So I was like, yeah, let's doit.
(24:29):
So we played music in thatmeeting and they played me two
songs that they felt like wasthe single.
It was one with Young Thug andthen it was the song called
Girlfriend and they had allwanted to go with the Young Thug
song and I was like, nah,girlfriend is the one.
And you know I picked rightbecause it ended up being his
first platinum single.
Wow, I took it back to LA, Ihad my homie Dre Sinatra start
(24:51):
spinning it on the radio in LAand, yeah, the rest was history
with that one.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, cap.
I really think Cap was, as ithappens, a lot with doing A&R.
I think Cap was ahead of thecurve.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
For sure he was.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I think he was.
I mean he ahead of the curve,for sure I think he was.
I mean he's super talented,super dope, good looking kid,
all that.
I just think that he, a coupleyears later, by the, connected.
But it's almost like the marketwasn't ready for him yet, for
sure you know it wasn't he'sstill so talented.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
He has a great voice, a great look and he's just a
great kid too, like, yeah, thebest personality.
So, yeah, I still want to seehim do well.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I feel like it may be .
He was just sometimes you, justyou like you too ahead of the
curve, and that might have been,you know what it was.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
That's my Bun B.
He always says that to me.
He's like you always be too upto in front man, you be too
early, you be too early.
You know, and that's happened.
You grab something, you signsomething, and it's like they
didn't see where it was going.
Yep, you know, you see it, butthey don't see it.
And then later on anotheractor's like that's what I was
trying to do, but you know,that's the game.
Yep, it is.
(25:58):
I think it's still better to beahead of the curve than behind
it.
It is.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Because you're behind it.
You're just chasing all thetime.
You're just chasing whatever'spopping, you're trying to find
the next and most of the timewhen you're chasing that sound,
you're not going to crack onthat sound.
It's too far out.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, it's too far out.
I hate when people bring mesomething and be like yo.
They're like the new Young Thug.
I'm like we already need likeYoung Thug Part 2.
You know what I'm saying?
You find somebody who's doingsomething else.
You know For sure, so tell usso you worked at?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
how long were you at Atlantic altogether?
I was at Atlantic for a littleover 10 years, from November of
09 to January of 2020.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, I had to run.
I had a long run.
I think at that time that Ileft.
I was the longest term A&Rthere.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were there for a minute.
You saw a lot of changes.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
We changed buildings, yeah, we went from 6th Avenue
over to Broadway, yeah, then wewent from Sixth Avenue over to
Broadway, yeah, and then, ofcourse, mike Caron, I seen him
come and go.
I seen, yeah, it was just a lot, my very first, my first or
second meeting I'll never forget.
(27:22):
So we had.
It was Mike Caron, daryl Jones,it was G Jean, it was Andrew
Luffman was in there, it was MrMorgan who worked with Drake in
there.
Yes, yes, yes, yes yes, thisdude's V Edelman was in there,
Wait see see he did something,Was he he's?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
is he a lawyer now?
He did something big he was alawyer.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I'm not sure I haven't heard from him in a long
time.
Wow, yeah, that was our anrstaff.
It was a bunch of killers inthere and uh, how were those
meetings crazy?
So this I'm so I never forgetleor kicked the door and like
it's like you motherfuckersbetter have some hit records.
I was like, oh my, what thefuck is going on?
The meetings used to be crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I bet Out of crazy comes creativity and out of
creativity comes hits For sure.
And you know people, you know.
I don't know if people know ornot know, but the best companies
, best record companies, to me,are always driven by A&R or A&R
people.
They are, whether it's back inthe day with, like you know,
(28:34):
reeve Martin or something likethat, or even with LA Reid, or
you know those people.
You know they should get wildsometimes, you know, but the
hits come from that.
You know For sure, it comesfrom that.
You know it comes from that.
You know.
So, yeah, and the and the.
You know the other special casetoo.
You know what.
I'm saying Um, so you went.
After Atlantic, you went toMotown.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yup.
After Atlantic I went to MotownUm.
I spent three years there.
Ethiopia brought me over.
It was cool.
I worked on, I worked on theMigos, I worked on offset.
I signed Leon over there.
I signed LA over there.
I worked on Kim, the R&B artist.
That was great working with himyeah, it was cool.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So again, without incriminating nobody, because I
don't want to fucking raisemoney or whatever can you tell
me one maybe wild is a stretch,because that kind of tastes like
drugs and I don't not that, butwhat was an interesting,
interesting Migos story.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Damn it Interesting.
You know, I wasn't really inthe studio with them too much,
too much.
It was sort of like justcollecting, so I wasn't
overseeing when we, when weworked on his solo project
though, we were in the studio alot together, okay, and how was
that?
No, I mean, he's super talented, nice guy.
(29:56):
He like listens to ideas, so,yeah, it was good working with
him.
I don't know if I have no crazystories about him, but yeah,
yeah, working with offset that'sall good, and so let's talk.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
let's talk a little about Leon.
Yep, so you signed Leon overthere.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yep.
So me and Ty had came up with alabel and I was like I'm going
to take it over here.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
No, question Because it is a label, it's called Easy
Money.
It's called Easy Money Becauseit's E-Z-M-N-Y.
I was trying to make sure I wassaying it right.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I was trying to make sure I was saying it right.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
It's called.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Easy Money.
We created the label in Januaryof 22 or 23.
I don't remember what year Ibrought it to Ethiopia and she's
like yeah, we'd love to do this.
She's like y'all just got tofind an artist you did the label
with no artist on it.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yet With no artist on it, sign.
Yeah, that's, that's rare.
Yeah, nowadays an artist isalready attached.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
That's interesting yep, yep so I did the label no
artists with signs I was intraffic with.
I was in traffic well, itwasn't even traffic.
I was outside during thepandemic and there was nobody
outside.
And then leon comes pulling upnext to me in his car and we got
the red light.
So I look, look over and I'mlike yo what's up.
I hadn't seen him in years.
That's crazy.
It is God, it's crazy.
(31:14):
It's amazing, amazing.
But yeah, he was like yo, I gotthis project.
I want you to hear it.
I'm going to call you later ontoday.
So he called me, he sent me theproject.
It ended up being Electric Dusk, which was his last project we
put out last year.
And yeah, I heard it and I waslike man, this shit is amazing,
this kid is like the one.
So I went, I played it for Ty,we had a meet and meet him and
(31:37):
Ty, and then the rest has beenhistory.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So the project it was done.
Did you do any changes to the?
Speaker 3 (31:42):
project.
It was done minus one song thatwe added, which was Crash and
Burn, which ended up being oneof the big songs.
But yeah, it was pretty muchdone.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
That's crazy.
It's very rare you find that.
Yeah, at Java I signed Nivea.
Okay, that's crazy.
Her project was done like that.
They presented it to me.
It was like don't message yourman.
All that stuff was alreadythere, we didn't even touch it.
That's crazy.
So it's rare you could findsomebody who's done.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yeah, he had this project done for like four years
already, so he was just holdingit, making sure, like.
So all the music that you heardfrom that project was like four
or five years old, which iscrazy.
It didn't age and it likeushered in a new sound to r&b.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
So there's the same with her.
She was signed.
She was signed in noontime.
Yeah, noone had all theproducers and writers b Brian
Michael Cox.
Those guys signed to him so shewas just working, like I said,
three, four years as like a youknow, demo and songs and writing
songs, and so that's what shepresented.
This stuff was already there.
It's crazy, yeah, you get it'svery hard to do that more
(32:47):
marketing, you know.
Yeah, so leon's leon's project,which is grammy nominated,
which is insane, yeah, that's agreat fucking album, bro.
That guy it blew me away.
You know it's.
It's hard to find those recordswhere it's like the production,
production level so high andlayered yeah me kind of things.
You listen to it like two orthree times ago I didn't even
(33:08):
notice.
You know that string line likethat or whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
And then on top of that his writing for sure top
lines are like ridiculous hejust found, like his, his team
of guys so he works with, withtwo guys like who are his team
on the production and then healso produces too.
And then, yeah, his writing.
He found, like his counterpart,with this guy busy crook, who
were actually about to sign toEasy Money too.
(33:33):
Ok, OK.
And yeah they, they just made amasterpiece.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I mean, I prefer albums like that was still
contained to like the crew, youknow, because then it creates a
sound and a vibe and all thatstuff.
It's supposed to like.
10 songs, eight producers,cause even if even if those
albums have the hits, it's kindof almost like a compilation.
(33:58):
Yup, you know it's not reallyan album.
It's like okay, you got fivehits.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
It's not cohesive.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It's not cohesive, exactly, yeah, but Leon's
amazing man.
He's one of my favorite newpeople, man, so good luck
tonight, are you going?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
No, no, so he's actually not up tonight.
He's not up for a Grammytonight, so he won a Grammy last
year for Scissors.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Snooze.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
And we missed the deadline on the album, so it's
probably going to be up.
Well, God willing, it's goingto be up for next year's Grammy.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Well, whatever, the album's crazy, so
congratulations anyway Ties upfor two Grammys tonight, though.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Wow, as he deserves.
Is it for the Kanye stuff?
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yeah for the Kanye stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Did you get to any of those sessions?
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, yeah, I was there when they was making
Carnival.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Wow, okay, okay, okay , give me a little piece of that
.
Again we don't incriminatenobody on this show.
We want to hear the story,ain't nobody, but it was.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
We was at the hotel in.
Damn, what hotel was that?
It's in West Hollywood, whenyou go up the Little Hill.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Oh, the Chateau Marmont.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yep, chateau Marmont.
So we was in there in a room.
It was pitch black in there,the vibe was crazy, but yeah,
they was working on a carnival.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Wow, that's amazing.
That's yo.
Congratulations to Ty for thenominations and I think they'll
win.
I think they'll win, I meanCarnival was a massive record.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
God willing, God willing yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I think they'll win, you know.
So then, from Motown, you wentto Empire Yep, you worked with
Ghazi.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
No, it was good.
I had been talking to Ghazi fora minute and he was like yo
come over here and, you know,try to help me do some things.
So I went over there and, yeah,just learned a lot from on the
independent side, because it'scompletely different from my
first two jobs at Atlantic.
Well, my second and third jobat Atlantic and Motown
(35:49):
Completely different how they dothings.
Third job at Atlantic andMotown Completely different how
they do things.
It's more so like the artists.
They just come and they turn intheir project when it's done
and you know, then they come inand try to, you know, bring some
marketing services to it andthe DSPs and all that stuff.
But yeah, it was cool.
It taught me a lot for my label.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
So the A&R process at a placelike an empire, I'm assuming
it's not as hands-on as it wouldbe at the majors.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
I mean with certain artists, yes, but they have so
many artists that I think ismore so in bulk that they try to
sign things and you might catcha win over here with something
you weren't even thinking about.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, yeah, and it's.
I guess with that many artists,it's it.
You can't be hands-on becauseit's too much, too much coming
down the system.
Yeah, touch everything and saychanges to that.
You gotta kind of sign them andthen trust they know what you
know, they know what they'redoing and they know their
audience, what the audiencewants you know.
So you left Empire, now you'rejust doing Easy Money, fully,
yep.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I'm just doing Easy Money full-time.
Now I'm doing some management,so I got two management clients.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
For Fargo, who's been doing well.
He's had like two or threesongs go viral already.
Okay, so I'm super excitedabout him.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I got LA who's's a management client and he was
signed to atlantic back in theday then I'm doing easy money,
me and ty.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
We got leon over there and yeah we got the
rolling yeah, we rolling, that'scool man congratulations, man,
it's a blessing to hit on yourfirst one um man lesson.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
That's a super blessing.
You know, what I want to askyou is and i'm'm going to this
is a question I'm going to ask alot of people what do you think
?
How has streaming changedobviously, the business, and how
has streaming changed youropinion, your approach to doing
A&R?
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I mean, I feel like streaming has helped the
business.
The business was dying beforestreaming, so it's definitely
helped in that way.
But I feel like they still haveto get the rates right to pay
the songwriters and theproducers.
They still have to figure thatout for sure so that I hope in
in the next coming year, sixmonths, that they, you know, can
(38:08):
figure that out.
But, um, yeah, streaming, Iknow before streaming you know
was it was set digital downloadsand still trying to sell cds
and stuff like that and it justwasn't working.
So streaming helped.
But does it change my approachto anr?
No, I still go for the thingsthat I feel, the things that I
feel like are ahead, like, likeyou said, I always want to be
(38:30):
ahead of the curve too.
I'd rather be ahead and missedthan be behind and missed.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah, so yeah, I just want to be ahead of the curve
on things.
I want to do things that I'mpassionate about and that I love
, and yeah, that's it.
There's no data or TikTok orwhatever that could make me, you
know, move on something.
I did that one time and Iregretted it.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Why did you regret it ?
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Because it didn't work out and I was just chasing
like numbers in a trend andthat's not how I got to where I
am today.
When I signed Ty, he hadabsolutely nothing going on.
Signed Leon, he had absolutelynothing going on and it was just
great music that I believed in.
So we have to keep the musicfirst.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, I always felt like with the chasing, the
numbers and analytics, it's avery dangerous game because if
something's popping now, by thetime you do the process and sign
it and everything you've missedout.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
You've missed it.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
It's gone.
It's three months later orsometimes even more, and it's
like whatever that thing was,that was hot, is now gone and
the kids on those platforms havemoved on.
And so now you're trying toregenerate something that
they've moved on, and then a lotof times also with those
artists, respectfully, theydon't quite know what they're
doing.
They kind of stepped in shit.
(39:52):
So when you ask them to do itagain, they're like I don't even
know what I did the first time.
Right, you know what I'm saying.
So it's kind of that's real.
You know what I'm saying.
So it's kind of a dangerousgame, man.
You know, tell me an artistthat you wanted.
Well, you told me about drake,but if there's another artist
that you wanted to sign, but uh,but you didn't because you know
(40:15):
for for whatever reason it'sbeen a list of them.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I know you got this conversation offline.
Yeah, I mean you go back todrake.
He's the biggest artist in theworld, uh, andrick, so go.
It's a story about that.
So I was in new york for Iforgot what I was in new york
for.
But I was in new New York forthe week, up at the old Atlantic
office, and Kendrick wassitting in his little room to
the side of Craig's office.
(40:39):
So I went in there and I waschopping it up with him and then
Craig was like, coming to themeeting with me and listen to
this kid.
I don't know nothing about him,but come listen to him.
So we get in the meeting andKendrick plays the intro from
Overly Dedicated, and he playedthat one song and I was like
sign him now.
Like this kid is the fuckingone.
(41:00):
So of course they were slowfooting.
So I went back to LA the nextweek and I told Mike Karen.
I was like yo, I just heardthis shit.
You got to meet with this kidnamed Kendrick and I set up the
meeting.
So they came in there and theymet with Mike Karen and it ended
up not happening.
It ended up not happening.
Yeah, I just knew from that onesong I was like oh my God, this
(41:23):
kid is fucking amazing.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yo, I remember there was this kid You'll laugh when I
but there was this kid.
You'll laugh when I but therewas this kid I got kids had
stumbled on music.
It might've been I don't know,it might've been MySpace.
It's a long time ago.
It might've been MySpace or itmight've been the LimeWire era,
whatever, but I stumbled on thiskid's music and it was real
like weird, but it was kind of.
(41:46):
It was very dark and weird, butI liked it.
I was like I don't knowsomething about this kid, I like
it.
He was talking crazy and I keptplaying and playing and I
remember playing it for other Iwas just at the Jive Days and I
was playing it for other A&Rpeople at Jive and they were
like you like this shit.
I was like yo, there'ssomething there, man, and it was
like this is trash.
(42:07):
I think I talked about it inone of our meetings and
basically I laughed at themeeting Like you bugging out,
and I kept I was like yo, Idon't know what it is, but
there's something here and he'sgoing on to do things I never
thought he would do.
It's Tyler, wow, it was.
What was it?
Was it Bastard or Goblin?
One of those first mixtapes Iforget which one.
It was one of his firstmixtapes and he was like you
(42:29):
know he was talking super crazyback then but I was like I don't
know, like something iscompelling to me.
Yeah, yeah, but you know, ifyou do A&R long enough, you got
these stories.
Yeah, I mean listen.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
I got plenty of them.
I know Jenea was another onewho I had Wow, brought her up
Party Next Door Did you haveTiller?
No, I didn't have Tiller.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Party Next Door.
I had Ty and Party Next Doorand they told me I could only
sign one of them and I ended upsigning.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Ty Signing Ty yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, I mean, I could go down a whole list of them.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, it's the game.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
It's the game.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
So tell me three of your favorite artists, and why.
And again, any genre, any, any.
It could be old, new, itdoesn't matter favorite.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
I feel like this kind of easy.
So jay-z, michael jackson,stevie wonder okay, I mean,
they're obvious that you know.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Just tell me what hit you about each of them to make
you you know.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like Jay-Z was my era, when I
was in high school, so I justremember Volume 2 coming out,
volume 1.
I remember them coming out in,you know, especially Volume 2,
though, because that's when hestarted to really, really crack.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
I remember the blueprint coming out right
before September 11th orSeptember 11th, the day it came
out, I believe, the towers felland his season came out.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yep, so I went to.
He had a.
He had a concert that week.
That's crazy.
And I went to the show.
It was crazy.
I still call it the Manhattancenter, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Yeah, just the memories, like, but all I mean
he's just the best rapper everto me.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, yeah.
And what about michael?
Speaker 3 (44:15):
then I mean the best artist ever, the biggest artist
ever, with the best songs.
He got perfect albums perfectalbums, yeah, perfect, I don't
know I mean it's very few peoplewho got perfect albums.
He got perfect albums, albums.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, ain't no skips.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
No skips.
And then Stevie Wonder, thebest songwriter of all time
probably.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
So you say he's your best songwriter ever, stevie.
Wonder, for sure.
Okay, okay, okay, okay, I mean,yeah, I mean, I'm not going to
say you're retarded.
It's ridiculous.
Yeah, it's like ridiculous.
And give me three songs thatchanged your life.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
Man.
Now this is tough.
Three songs that changed mylife, sheesh man.
Okay, I think I said thisbefore.
Stevie Wonder Rock your Love.
I love that song.
I just remember being outsidewhen when uh, with n-o-r-e nori
stands for now you're on the runeating outside.
(45:18):
When that came out, I was crazy.
That was a moment.
It's so many songs, that many.
Yeah, I was winnie houston.
I will always love you.
That song always, alwaystouched me when I heard it from
the beginning.
Yeah, I would say those three.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Okay, okay, those are three good ones, and varied.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Rocket Love, Nori and Whitney, I listen to everything
.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, I do the same.
I don't try to lock into oneparticular genre.
For me it's whoever's dope Inwhatever genre.
Genre it is like I mean nirvanawas super dope and obviously
stevie's super dope, and like ifyou, if you can master what
you're doing, I want to hear it.
Yeah, you know saying doesn'thave to be only r&b or only rap
(46:03):
or whatever.
Totally.
One more thing, one morequestion, and then we're gonna
wrap it.
Um, is there a concert, a showthat you went to that, I don't
know, changed your life?
That might be kind of strong,but that you kind of just stuck
in your brain like you knowsomething?
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Yeah for sure, it's two.
So the first ever concert Iwent to was Criss Cross, okay,
and we was in there with ourclothes on backwards that one
for sure.
And then I was there the nightat Madison Square Garden with
Jay-Z, where R Kelly didn't comeout.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I was there too.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
That was insane.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Insane.
Insane Because, again, I'm atJive at that time and so we all
like what the fuck is going on.
And then the lights are darkand nobody knows what's
happening.
And then everybody startscoming out all the other artists
.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah, all the other artists.
And then everybody startscoming out all the other artists
, yeah, all the other artists.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That night was insane , that was wild man?
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah, I was in college at that time, that was
crazy.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
That was a moment.
That was a moment.
So right now you're doing yourEasy Money thing full time.
You're working with Leon.
What are your visions for EasyMoney?
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Yeah, so we in the process of doing a new deal.
It's almost done, so we'll beannouncing that soon.
But yeah, we just want to signthe best talent with our new
partner and just grow it andcontinue to grow.
Leon he's, I feel like he'sgoing to have one of those
careers like a weekend, likejust somebody of that stature,
because he's 10, 20 years.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
10, 20 year career.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah, he could perform.
He performs as good as he sings, as good as he writes, as good
as he produces.
So, yeah, he's, he's that good,he's going to be that big but,
yeah, just continuing to growout our brand and, you know,
having us be one of the staples,the new bad boy, the new
Rockefeller, the new, you know,whatever it may be, we want to
be in those conversations.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm proud of you, man,appreciate it.
Thank you for coming throughand showing love and telling the
people your story.
I think they're going to enjoythis one.
This is a good show, Iappreciate it.
Take bits and shit.
You know some fun times.
You know what I'm saying Forsure.
I remember those meetings wewere in together at Atlantic,
you know.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Insane.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, we'll talk about that more later, yo, I
really appreciate it, sean.
Thank you for coming on, man,and eventually I would love to
get you know Leon and Ty on hereas well to talk about their
craft and all that.
You know, we're working outlater on, but I appreciate
everything, man, thank you.
Thank you, man.
Yes, sir, you can catch mixedand mastered on apple podcast,
(48:34):
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend I'm
your host, jeffrey sledge.
Mixed and mastered is producedand distributed by merrick
studios.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered, the podcast where the
stories of the music industrycome to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
(00:29):
Okay, we're here at Mixed andMastered.
One of my favorite people, seanBarry from Buffalo, new York.
Buffalo's finest, appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, man, thank you forappearing, man.
I'm looking forward to thisinterview.
It's going me.
Yeah, man, thank you forappearing man.
I'm looking forward to thisinterview.
It's going to be good man, solike.
I said you grew up in Buffalo,new York, you know, with
(00:52):
Westside, gunn and Benny and allthose guys.
Yes, sir, home of Rick James.
Yes, sir, wait, do y'all count?
Is it Niagara Falls?
That's not you.
Is that Buffalo?
I mean, I mean, that's closeenough, it's close enough, right
, close enough.
It's like 20 minutes away,exactly in the home of the.
(01:13):
I remember years ago, man, whenI did I did promotions before I
did um A&R and in one of mystations was WBLK okay, yeah, in
Buffalo.
And I remember going up thereand a guy the program director,
music director at the time, theguy named Roger, came in his
last name.
He's good dude.
He took me to the place wherehe said they invented buffalo
wings, the Anchor Bar yeah, somerestaurant, those are not the
best wings.
They wasn't really fine.
(01:35):
But I was like these ain'treally that good.
I respect you bringing me here,but these ain't really lit.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's other spots way better, way I figured.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Tell me a little bit about growing up in buffalo.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
No, it was good I had a had a cool childhood.
Was was heavy going outsideevery day with my friends.
Uh was playing basketballalmost every day.
That was like my thing.
Yeah, just had.
I had a cool childhood justriding my bike around the
neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Regular kid stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, regular kid stuff outside every day.
The computer didn't come untillater on.
I think I got a computer when Iwas in eighth or ninth grade,
so that's when that came alongand then I was more so on the
computer and doing all thatstuff.
But yeah, just regularchildhood regular.
How did you?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
tap into the music.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think my mom had a part to play in
that.
She was always playing musicaround the house.
My cousin was a DJ and he stillis a DJ.
Shout out to Jay Tech, he's aDJ down here in Atlanta right
now.
Okay, he was at the radiostation at V106.
Okay, so shout out107.
Okay, so shout out to him.
Sorry about that.
(02:49):
No, that's all good.
Yeah, so shout out to him.
He was a DJ.
He put me on to a lot of stuff.
I remember hearing early Nas,early Big L, all that stuff from
him.
So shout out to him.
And then I just think that,yeah, I just loved music.
I was always into it.
I was always looking for thenewest songs.
(03:10):
I was always looking for thenew artists and, yeah, just
being outside too, like in here,having cars go by and just
playing all the new stuff.
I remember hearing nori for thefirst time, n-o-r-e nori.
I had Nori for the first time,n-o-r-e Nori.
I had somebody inspire for thefirst time and I was like what's
that?
Yeah, just all stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Being in it, yeah, being in it.
So you played ball.
You still play, man, I haven'tplayed ball in forever.
You gave it up.
You let it go.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I got to get back out there, though.
No, I want to get back outthere, I just haven't.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I haven't played you busy, you busy every time, you
know yeah busy.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Uh, grew up playing.
Baldo was playing every day,hours and hours a day.
Yeah, when I went to highschool I ended up playing.
Varsity started for three years.
I got some accomplishmentsfirst team all catholic because
I went to a catholic school,okay.
So yeah, I was a hooper cool,cool, cool.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And I know, I know the hooping took you to college.
You played in seton hall yep,yep, I didn't play.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
So I made the team, but I ended up not playing okay
the coach was like, since I wasa walk-on, it really wasn't a
spot for me.
He was like you'll make theteam, you'll practice with the
team, you'll travel, but you'renot gonna play in any games.
And that sort of likediscouraged me.
But I should have just keptgoing because I was good.
I would probably ended upplaying, but I just let those
(04:27):
words discourage me and then waslooking for my next outlet and
that's when music came into thespotlight.
So tell us about that.
How did that happen?
Yeah, my homie a butter.
He was a rapper and he was likeyo, you should manage me.
And I didn't know what to do.
So I went and got an internshipand I ended up interning at
Republic Records, the buildingon 57th and Broadway.
(04:50):
I was going there three times aweek and just learning a bunch
of stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
It was cool.
Who'd you work for over atRepublic?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I worked for it was this dude named Jordan Walker,
and so I interned in new media,which is like digital marketing,
now Yep Slash A&R.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And at that time sorry about that At that time it
was MySpace.
That was like the big thing.
So he was searching for artistson MySpace and he like taught me
like how to go through thethree columns and search for all
the artists you could likepinpoint cities, countries.
It was crazy, yeah, yeah.
Three columns and searched forall the artists you could like
pinpoint cities, countries.
It was crazy, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He taught me how to do that andthe first artist who I came up
(05:31):
on doing that was drake and thatsort of like led to you know,
that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That's crazy.
So I know you said you reachedout to drake and had a
conversation with him so I Ireached out to.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So after my internship I started working at
Koch, so this was the time whenJim Jones was over there.
He had just dropped balling.
Dj Khaled was over there.
Ray J was over there when hedid sexy, can I?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
yeah, yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
It was a real machine at that time.
So, yeah, I hit Drake up likemonths before I even started
working at Koch.
I hit him, he hit me back, hesent me his info and he just so
happened to be in New York for aDegrassi thing.
So I remember he was like yocome meet with me the day before
the meeting.
So we went to his hotel he wasstaying at the the time hotel,
(06:26):
okay, yeah, yeah, the time willtell you.
Stand there with me and myhomie danny went there.
We chopped it up with him andthe next day we brought him in
for a meeting with alan.
And what was the vibe?
like back then um, he was supercool.
He just wanted to work.
I remember him like mentioningkanye and pharrell at that time,
which is funny, where you know,yeah, um yeah, he was super
(06:51):
cool, super humble.
Um, I mean, he still seems thesame way to this day.
I haven't spoken to him inforever, but he still seems like
a humble guy, yeah, but uh,yeah, we brought him up there.
They unfortunately passed onthem and then I just started
telling other people about themand that's how I met mike karen
okay, okay, so tell me aboutthat.
Well, mike, mike, mike thescientist, yeah so, uh, it's
(07:16):
funny, me and my homie danny, wewas doing like unsigned artist
showcases in new york, so uhwhere did you do those showcases
in New York?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Where did you do those showcases?
Man I got to remember.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
We did them at two different places.
I forgot which places they were, but the first one we had
Mickey Facts, we had Currency,we had Nipsey Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, it was crazy, the people you had eventually
got signed.
Yeah, yeah, they eventually gotsigned.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
We was definitely on to something.
So, uh, we had made a flyer andwe just emailed the fly.
We got a list of industrycontacts and we just emailed it
to everybody and mike caron hitme back.
He was like yo, this is dope.
He's like send me whateverartists and producers that you
think I should be looking at.
So I sent him drake and I senthim a bunch of other stuff that
I was looking at at the time.
(08:06):
And we stayed in contact andright after so, 2009 came around
and we all got laid off at Koch.
It was the recession and it wasjust one of those times.
So I was like what am I goingto do next?
So I found this artist onMySpace.
His name was Amiro Bay at thattime.
He's going by Fresh, he Does itand I sent it to Mike and Mike
(08:29):
was like yo, this is crazy.
He flew us out to LA literallythe next week and then he signed
him and gave me a job atAtlantic.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So Amiro Bay, that's not the kid from Portland.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
No, no, he's from well, he's from Detroit, okay,
and Brooklyn, he's from both,but I think he just he was
signed to Def Jam after he gotoff Atlantic okay, okay, yeah,
cool.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So you got him signed over.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Atlantic.
And, yeah, he gave me an A&Rjob and and literally got thrown
into the fire.
I didn't know what I was doing.
I was just up there.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I knew music, of course the process of doing a
and r how to make records, and Ididn't really know what I was
doing but, in the fire and Ilearned, I learned quickly.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
he definitely taught me like the process of song
making and and making hit songsand all that stuff and I just
took it and I soaked it in and Ijust added it to you know
because, because I go forfeeling, so I added the process
of making a hit record to thefeeling and it's history ever
since.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, I think I hate to sound like the old dude you
know what I'm saying back in myday, but I think that a lot of
what you said, that feelingthing, is missing more now.
There are records that havefeeling it's not like nobody's
doing it.
There are plenty of peopledoing it.
You know Drake, kendrick,future, whatever we could keep
(09:53):
naming them.
But there are a lot of peoplethat don't understand that
feeling part.
No, for sure, I agree.
I mean, I think that's whythere's a lot of older records
that still you know the MichaelJacksons or you know Teddy
Pendergrass, whatever they still40, 50 years later.
It's because of how they feel.
(10:13):
For sure they're great recordstoo, those records come out
today and still like hit thesame way, absolutely, because
again, they're great songs, youknow they're written properly,
all that stuff.
Because, again, they're greatsongs, you know they're written
properly, all that stuff.
You just hear something thatjust feels inside your body as
it pauses, instead of just likethis is a great record, but it
doesn't make you feel any kindof way, you know?
Sure.
(10:34):
So, without giving away all mysecrets, tell us a little bit
about what you learned about theprocess of actually making
records from him.
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, so I was in the studio for my first two, three
years nonstop.
First we were up at Paramountand then we were there for a
year and then he ended up buyingthat building on Cahuenga.
We were in that building.
So I was literally in thestudio from 11 am until whenever
(11:05):
I left, every day, and we werehaving every major songwriter,
every major producer in the gamecoming up, you know, making
songs for us.
So you got to think like Miguelearly, Miguel early, Miguel
early Frank Ocean early.
Ty Dolla, $ign early, jeremiahearly whoever you could think of
(11:28):
was coming up there writingsongs for us and producing for
us.
So it was just an amazing timeup there going to his.
He had a.
He had a rule book in everyroom with several rules of song
writing and I mean they.
They worked.
So one of the rules was likerepetition.
Another one was like when youspell something like Boosie, did
(11:48):
I N, d, e, it's like thatalways works.
Asking a question like it wasjust a whole bunch of different
things that you implement to thesong to, like you know, make
sure it was a hit and I don'tknow Again.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
You know I hate to sound like you sound like the
back of my day guy because Idon't know how it goes now but
what you said about all thosepeople coming through the studio
you really learn a lot bywatching how people work.
I'm sure Frank and Ty don'twork the same, even though they
both are phenomenal, but theyhave different approaches so you
(12:23):
kind of learn things.
When I worked at Jive, thestudio was called Battery
Studios.
We were on 10, and Battery wasin the same building.
It was on 7.
So we'd always go downstairsand I learned so much about
sitting in the studio andwatching people work and how
they use this and how they makebeats and how they really kind
(12:43):
of soak up a lot of information.
So I just hope you had thatexperience.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, no, I mean even more.
I mean Bruno used to be inthere before.
He had a record that went crazy.
So yeah, just sitting in thereseeing these people's processes
and how they make songs, I justsoaked it all up.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Is anybody in particular that stood out I mean
, besides Ty, we'll get to laterparticular that stood out to
you as far as their processesand how they worked?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, I mean a lot of people.
Pop Ronsel was another one whowas early.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Seeing him work was amazing, man.
I mean it was so literally wehad like the pick of the pick
when we was working, so it wasjust everybody who was in there.
It was just a great time.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
That's incredible.
Um so now wait, do you work?
You worked with johnny shakesfor a minute as well, correct?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
so after I got let go from kotch then I worked with
shipes for like three or fourmonths oh quick it was quick.
Yeah, it was real quick, but uh, it was still impactful.
I still learned a lot overthere.
I remember he had me take likeeight boxes of mixtapes.
It was Nipsey Bullets, ain'tGot no Name.
(13:51):
I forgot which volume it was,but he had me take like eight
boxes on this cart to the mail,to UPS.
It was crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Walking down the street.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, walking down the street with eight big boxes
of mixtapes to get them out.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
It was crazy, now had he signed joy badass by that
point it was.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
It was just nipsey and I think he had smoked and
I'm trying to think did he haveanybody else?
Nipsey was like the main focusgrinding it out.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, that's cool.
So so you worked with Mike, yousigned your guy, and so after
that you worked with him.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
So after I got Fresh signed then technically that
wasn't my signing, that wasMike's signing.
He signed our artist.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
My first signing was Diggy Simmons, so I brought him
up there and this was Did youconnect with diggy via kind of
watching the, the.
at that time the reality showruns house, or you just know he
had put out a freestyle where hewas rapping on the rooftop and
everybody had started to see itand it was going viral at that
(14:57):
time and I was like man, thiskid is crazy.
Through my homie brad I knewone of diggy's friends and I
reached out to him and heconnected us on the phone.
Okay, yeah.
And then we started chopping itup.
I met with Rev and the wholeteam, perry and Chris Lighty
yeah, yeah, rest in peace.
Yeah, but yeah, I sat with themand then we brought them up and
(15:21):
we ended up doing a deal.
Wow.
And then, right after we didthe deal, he did another
freestyle.
Then Kanye had this thingcalled Kanye University where he
was just posting.
I remember that he ended upposting Diggy and then it just
like boom.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
It was like crazy yeah, lucky you already had him
signed by that point.
Yep, yep, it would have beensuper competitive.
For sure.
So I always wanted to ask that,because as A&R people, we
always have these stories.
Is Diggy your one that youthought was going to go but it
just didn't work?
Was it kind of like I know it'syou?
(15:56):
Was it just not the time forhim?
Because sometimes things areway ahead of?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
time.
Yeah, I think it was timing.
I feel like at that time it wasa lot of kid artists at that
time, so it was Diggy.
And then it was like Lil Twisttime.
It was a lot of kid artists atthat time, so it was diggy, and
then it was like little twistsand it was mindless behavior and
jacob latimore and it was justlike a certain resurgence of
kids.
Yeah, we had like at the head ofthat was diggy and mindless
behavior.
Those was like the two who werelike standing out and we we had
(16:23):
a hit record on diggy, therecord with jeremiah that did
great.
But uh, yeah, when we put outthis it just and I attribute a
lot of that to like music,digital downloads at that time
too- Break it down.
We weren't in the streamingarea yet, so a lot of people
were just pirating his album.
So I feel like you know thatcontributed.
(16:44):
It was just a weird time inmusic.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Sometimes it's not really theyou know you.
You'd be like did I make amistake?
It's like, nah, nah, that'sjust that you know the timing or
something, or a hiccup in theroad, whatever, somebody, maybe
your boss, got fired, it's allkind of 100 things that could
kind of sway in our career frombeing what you thought it was
going to be to not quite makingthat jump.
(17:07):
It's not that the was whack, itwas just kind of like things
were.
Just you know I think he wasrespected.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I think people respected the project, uh, and I
think that I mean I don't thinkI know he had a hit.
He had a hit single, um, so Iknow that that gave us like a
diving board.
But then he's sort of like Ifeel like he was in the
spotlight a lot in his youngerage and he sort of like wanted
to shy away from it after we putout that album.
So he didn't like keep going.
(17:34):
If we would have kept going,then we would have beat.
You know what we supposed to do?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, Because it doesn't always happen.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No, it never happens on the first go.
You got to just keep going.
Yeah, yeah, he kind of checkedout a little bit.
Yeah, he kind of checked out.
So then that left me in a kindof bad predicament and I was
like, what am I gonna do?
So, uh, I know I had ty comingto the studio just writing and
you know doing a lot of stuff.
I got him a placement on treysongs album and you know a
(18:05):
couple other things.
He was like yo, I got thismixtape I want you to hear.
It ended up being Beach House 1.
I was like man, this is amazing.
I ended up signing him.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I remember my boy Ike .
He played that tape for me thefirst time.
He was like you heard this TyDolla $ign guy.
I think I might have heard Tysing on a couple of records, but
I didn't know it would work.
And I was like you know, Iain't going to lie, I was being
a dickhead.
I was like nah, I ain't heardthat.
You know what I mean.
He sings on some people's songsand he played the tape and,
like you said, I was like wait,what?
(18:39):
Yeah, this like I just thoughthe was like a singer stuck on a
couple hooks.
I didn't know the depth of histalent.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It was like jesus guys yeah, you know, I mean
neither, neither did atlanticwhen I first signed him either,
just going back to that.
So when I first signed him, notgonna say who, but then, uh,
when I, when I, right before Isigned, it was like yo, he's a
disgrace to the label.
And they went back and toldcraig.
So I never forget, forget, Iwas in Atlanta with Allie boy.
Allie boy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
We got to get to him too.
I know I was in Atlanta withAllie boy.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
He was in Hot Beats I'll never forget.
And Craig called me.
He was like.
He was like.
Craig was like someone so saidthat Ty Dolla is a disgrace to
the label.
He's like why are we signinghim?
And I just snapped he's like,calm down, calm down.
He's like we're going to signhim.
We're going to sign him.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
But you know what, knowing Craig, if you hadn't
have spazzed, you might not havegot the deal.
I think he was.
I'm talking shit because I wasover there, but knowing Craig a
bit, he probably was alsotesting your passion for it.
Yeah, I think he was.
Yeah, you going to put yourfoot down?
Are you going to like, let mekind of sway you away from this?
Are you going to like pushthrough?
(19:53):
So that was good that youspazzed, you know obviously,
yeah, spazzed, we got the dealdone.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
But they still didn't get it at first.
But the one person who did getit was young Jeezy.
He was in our meetings at thetime.
He was a SVP or VP at the time.
Then I brought him in to dosome things and he heard yeah,
when I played Beach House 1 inour meeting, jeezy was like man,
this shit is crazy.
(20:17):
He was like man, this kid aboutto be huge.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
It was crazy.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah, he knew he was crazy.
He ended up popping on one ofthe records and did the video
with Ty and that was like thebig first moment for us.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That's dope.
So before we move forward Ineed to hear, like at least one.
So I didn't know Allie Boy, butwhen I was in college I was
trying to sign Big Bang, bigBang, yeah, and he had the
record with Candy Burris.
Yep, yep, I had my boy City.
He knew him and we did a wholemeeting.
The bank came out.
See, candy wasn't there.
But the bank came, was his mannamed Rico?
(20:51):
Yeah, rico, yeah, rico wasthere.
It was right before Christmasof whatever year that was, and
that's the case.
We met at the hotel lobby atthe W in Atlanta and I liked the
bank.
I mean everybody kind of toldme.
Yeah, everybody kind of told me.
Yeah, they kind of told me whatyou know, where they come from
or whatever.
That never scares me, but Ireally liked him.
(21:12):
I was like boy, I like this guy, Like he's like really cool,
real personable, like it wasn'ton no funny shit.
We didn't get the deal done.
I'll tell you offline whathappened, but we didn't get the
deal done.
I was really disappointed, butthat's.
They were mentioning Alibecause he was part of the
Duckman crew at the time.
So tell us one or two Alistories.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I mean, I have so many stories Without a crew,
there ain't nobody, yeah, I mean.
So one story I remember is weused to record in these
apartments.
I don't remember where they was, I just know they was in the
hood.
This is like it was crazy, soI'm we turned in there every day
recording in this hood spot,and I remember I met this dude
(21:52):
named Killer B there and KillerB just did Beyonce.
He's up for a Grammy today.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
What.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, which is crazy.
He was in this little hood-assapartment making music with us,
but now he's up, I forgot itmight be 16 Carriages or
whatever song wow wow yeah, younever know, you never know I met
color b in the hood with alleyboy.
That was crazy.
Another time I'll never forgetit was suge knight, alley boy.
(22:22):
Who else was in there?
The basketball player, who'scrazy?
Ron artes, no, not ron artis.
Man, what's his name?
Stephen jackson?
Yeah, stack, yeah, all in thestudio, guns falling on the
ground, like I'm like man, Igotta get the hell up out here.
(22:42):
I remember something one of thehomeboys guns fell on the
ground and it was like aimedtowards me but it didn't go off
and I was like, oh, this is mycue, I got to go.
Wow, that's funny, man, that'sfunny.
I loved Allie Boy though that'smy brother.
I was with him almost every dayfor like a year and we did some
great things.
It just didn't translate theway.
Alley Boy, big Bank yeah, yeah,that was like a movement.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
You were kind of early in it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
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Speaker 1 (23:52):
Cool and tell us a little bit about Cap G, who you
also signed Atlantic.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, cap G.
So KP a shout out to KP.
He ended up signing Cap G.
I want to say he signed Cap Garound the same time that I
ended up signing Ty.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So he was on the label.
I know they was trying tofigure it out.
And then, right before I wantto say like a year or two years
later, before KP was about toleave the label, he had called
me down to Atlanta to come tothe studio and I came by and he
was like yo, I respect whatyou're doing.
He's like I want you to work onCap G and, you know, try to
help us figure it out.
So I was like, yeah, let's doit.
(24:29):
So we played music in thatmeeting and they played me two
songs that they felt like wasthe single.
It was one with Young Thug andthen it was the song called
Girlfriend and they had allwanted to go with the Young Thug
song and I was like, nah,girlfriend is the one.
And you know I picked rightbecause it ended up being his
first platinum single.
Wow, I took it back to LA, Ihad my homie Dre Sinatra start
(24:51):
spinning it on the radio in LAand, yeah, the rest was history
with that one.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, cap.
I really think Cap was, as ithappens, a lot with doing A&R.
I think Cap was ahead of thecurve.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
For sure he was.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I think he was.
I mean he ahead of the curve,for sure I think he was.
I mean he's super talented,super dope, good looking kid,
all that.
I just think that he, a coupleyears later, by the, connected.
But it's almost like the marketwasn't ready for him yet, for
sure you know it wasn't he'sstill so talented.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
He has a great voice, a great look and he's just a
great kid too, like, yeah, thebest personality.
So, yeah, I still want to seehim do well.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I feel like it may be .
He was just sometimes you, justyou like you too ahead of the
curve, and that might have been,you know what it was.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
That's my Bun B.
He always says that to me.
He's like you always be too upto in front man, you be too
early, you be too early.
You know, and that's happened.
You grab something, you signsomething, and it's like they
didn't see where it was going.
Yep, you know, you see it, butthey don't see it.
And then later on anotheractor's like that's what I was
trying to do, but you know,that's the game.
Yep, it is.
(25:58):
I think it's still better to beahead of the curve than behind
it.
It is.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Because you're behind it.
You're just chasing all thetime.
You're just chasing whatever'spopping, you're trying to find
the next and most of the timewhen you're chasing that sound,
you're not going to crack onthat sound.
It's too far out.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, it's too far out.
I hate when people bring mesomething and be like yo.
They're like the new Young Thug.
I'm like we already need likeYoung Thug Part 2.
You know what I'm saying?
You find somebody who's doingsomething else.
You know For sure, so tell usso you worked at?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
how long were you at Atlantic altogether?
I was at Atlantic for a littleover 10 years, from November of
09 to January of 2020.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, I had to run.
I had a long run.
I think at that time that Ileft.
I was the longest term A&Rthere.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were there for a minute.
You saw a lot of changes.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
We changed buildings, yeah, we went from 6th Avenue
over to Broadway, yeah, then wewent from Sixth Avenue over to
Broadway, yeah, and then, ofcourse, mike Caron, I seen him
come and go.
I seen, yeah, it was just a lot, my very first, my first or
second meeting I'll never forget.
(27:22):
So we had.
It was Mike Caron, daryl Jones,it was G Jean, it was Andrew
Luffman was in there, it was MrMorgan who worked with Drake in
there.
Yes, yes, yes, yes yes, thisdude's V Edelman was in there,
Wait see see he did something,Was he he's?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
is he a lawyer now?
He did something big he was alawyer.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I'm not sure I haven't heard from him in a long
time.
Wow, yeah, that was our anrstaff.
It was a bunch of killers inthere and uh, how were those
meetings crazy?
So this I'm so I never forgetleor kicked the door and like
it's like you motherfuckersbetter have some hit records.
I was like, oh my, what thefuck is going on?
The meetings used to be crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I bet Out of crazy comes creativity and out of
creativity comes hits For sure.
And you know people, you know.
I don't know if people know ornot know, but the best companies
, best record companies, to me,are always driven by A&R or A&R
people.
They are, whether it's back inthe day with, like you know,
(28:34):
reeve Martin or something likethat, or even with LA Reid, or
you know those people.
You know they should get wildsometimes, you know, but the
hits come from that.
You know For sure, it comesfrom that.
You know it comes from that.
You know.
So, yeah, and the and the.
You know the other special casetoo.
You know what.
I'm saying Um, so you went.
After Atlantic, you went toMotown.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yup.
After Atlantic I went to MotownUm.
I spent three years there.
Ethiopia brought me over.
It was cool.
I worked on, I worked on theMigos, I worked on offset.
I signed Leon over there.
I signed LA over there.
I worked on Kim, the R&B artist.
That was great working with himyeah, it was cool.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So again, without incriminating nobody, because I
don't want to fucking raisemoney or whatever can you tell
me one maybe wild is a stretch,because that kind of tastes like
drugs and I don't not that, butwhat was an interesting,
interesting Migos story.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Damn it Interesting.
You know, I wasn't really inthe studio with them too much,
too much.
It was sort of like justcollecting, so I wasn't
overseeing when we, when weworked on his solo project
though, we were in the studio alot together, okay, and how was
that?
No, I mean, he's super talented, nice guy.
(29:56):
He like listens to ideas, so,yeah, it was good working with
him.
I don't know if I have no crazystories about him, but yeah,
yeah, working with offset that'sall good, and so let's talk.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
let's talk a little about Leon.
Yep, so you signed Leon overthere.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yep.
So me and Ty had came up with alabel and I was like I'm going
to take it over here.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
No, question Because it is a label, it's called Easy
Money.
It's called Easy Money Becauseit's E-Z-M-N-Y.
I was trying to make sure I wassaying it right.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I was trying to make sure I was saying it right.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
It's called.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Easy Money.
We created the label in Januaryof 22 or 23.
I don't remember what year Ibrought it to Ethiopia and she's
like yeah, we'd love to do this.
She's like y'all just got tofind an artist you did the label
with no artist on it.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yet With no artist on it, sign.
Yeah, that's, that's rare.
Yeah, nowadays an artist isalready attached.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
That's interesting yep, yep so I did the label no
artists with signs I was intraffic with.
I was in traffic well, itwasn't even traffic.
I was outside during thepandemic and there was nobody
outside.
And then leon comes pulling upnext to me in his car and we got
the red light.
So I look, look over and I'mlike yo what's up.
I hadn't seen him in years.
That's crazy.
It is God, it's crazy.
(31:14):
It's amazing, amazing.
But yeah, he was like yo, I gotthis project.
I want you to hear it.
I'm going to call you later ontoday.
So he called me, he sent me theproject.
It ended up being Electric Dusk, which was his last project we
put out last year.
And yeah, I heard it and I waslike man, this shit is amazing,
this kid is like the one.
So I went, I played it for Ty,we had a meet and meet him and
(31:37):
Ty, and then the rest has beenhistory.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So the project it was done.
Did you do any changes to the?
Speaker 3 (31:42):
project.
It was done minus one song thatwe added, which was Crash and
Burn, which ended up being oneof the big songs.
But yeah, it was pretty muchdone.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
That's crazy.
It's very rare you find that.
Yeah, at Java I signed Nivea.
Okay, that's crazy.
Her project was done like that.
They presented it to me.
It was like don't message yourman.
All that stuff was alreadythere, we didn't even touch it.
That's crazy.
So it's rare you could findsomebody who's done.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yeah, he had this project done for like four years
already, so he was just holdingit, making sure, like.
So all the music that you heardfrom that project was like four
or five years old, which iscrazy.
It didn't age and it likeushered in a new sound to r&b.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
So there's the same with her.
She was signed.
She was signed in noontime.
Yeah, noone had all theproducers and writers b Brian
Michael Cox.
Those guys signed to him so shewas just working, like I said,
three, four years as like a youknow, demo and songs and writing
songs, and so that's what shepresented.
This stuff was already there.
It's crazy, yeah, you get it'svery hard to do that more
(32:47):
marketing, you know.
Yeah, so leon's leon's project,which is grammy nominated,
which is insane, yeah, that's agreat fucking album, bro.
That guy it blew me away.
You know it's.
It's hard to find those recordswhere it's like the production,
production level so high andlayered yeah me kind of things.
You listen to it like two orthree times ago I didn't even
(33:08):
notice.
You know that string line likethat or whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
And then on top of that his writing for sure top
lines are like ridiculous hejust found, like his, his team
of guys so he works with, withtwo guys like who are his team
on the production and then healso produces too.
And then, yeah, his writing.
He found, like his counterpart,with this guy busy crook, who
were actually about to sign toEasy Money too.
(33:33):
Ok, OK.
And yeah they, they just made amasterpiece.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I mean, I prefer albums like that was still
contained to like the crew, youknow, because then it creates a
sound and a vibe and all thatstuff.
It's supposed to like.
10 songs, eight producers,cause even if even if those
albums have the hits, it's kindof almost like a compilation.
(33:58):
Yup, you know it's not reallyan album.
It's like okay, you got fivehits.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
It's not cohesive.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It's not cohesive, exactly, yeah, but Leon's
amazing man.
He's one of my favorite newpeople, man, so good luck
tonight, are you going?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
No, no, so he's actually not up tonight.
He's not up for a Grammytonight, so he won a Grammy last
year for Scissors.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Snooze.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
And we missed the deadline on the album, so it's
probably going to be up.
Well, God willing, it's goingto be up for next year's Grammy.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Well, whatever, the album's crazy, so
congratulations anyway Ties upfor two Grammys tonight, though.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Wow, as he deserves.
Is it for the Kanye stuff?
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yeah for the Kanye stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Did you get to any of those sessions?
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, yeah, I was there when they was making
Carnival.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Wow, okay, okay, okay , give me a little piece of that
.
Again we don't incriminatenobody on this show.
We want to hear the story,ain't nobody, but it was.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
We was at the hotel in.
Damn, what hotel was that?
It's in West Hollywood, whenyou go up the Little Hill.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Oh, the Chateau Marmont.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yep, chateau Marmont.
So we was in there in a room.
It was pitch black in there,the vibe was crazy, but yeah,
they was working on a carnival.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Wow, that's amazing.
That's yo.
Congratulations to Ty for thenominations and I think they'll
win.
I think they'll win, I meanCarnival was a massive record.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
God willing, God willing yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I think they'll win, you know.
So then, from Motown, you wentto Empire Yep, you worked with
Ghazi.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
No, it was good.
I had been talking to Ghazi fora minute and he was like yo
come over here and, you know,try to help me do some things.
So I went over there and, yeah,just learned a lot from on the
independent side, because it'scompletely different from my
first two jobs at Atlantic.
Well, my second and third jobat Atlantic and Motown
(35:49):
Completely different how they dothings.
Third job at Atlantic andMotown Completely different how
they do things.
It's more so like the artists.
They just come and they turn intheir project when it's done
and you know, then they come inand try to, you know, bring some
marketing services to it andthe DSPs and all that stuff.
But yeah, it was cool.
It taught me a lot for my label.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
So the A&R process at a placelike an empire, I'm assuming
it's not as hands-on as it wouldbe at the majors.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
I mean with certain artists, yes, but they have so
many artists that I think ismore so in bulk that they try to
sign things and you might catcha win over here with something
you weren't even thinking about.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, yeah, and it's.
I guess with that many artists,it's it.
You can't be hands-on becauseit's too much, too much coming
down the system.
Yeah, touch everything and saychanges to that.
You gotta kind of sign them andthen trust they know what you
know, they know what they'redoing and they know their
audience, what the audiencewants you know.
So you left Empire, now you'rejust doing Easy Money, fully,
yep.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I'm just doing Easy Money full-time.
Now I'm doing some management,so I got two management clients.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
For Fargo, who's been doing well.
He's had like two or threesongs go viral already.
Okay, so I'm super excitedabout him.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I got LA who's's a management client and he was
signed to atlantic back in theday then I'm doing easy money,
me and ty.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
We got leon over there and yeah we got the
rolling yeah, we rolling, that'scool man congratulations, man,
it's a blessing to hit on yourfirst one um man lesson.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
That's a super blessing.
You know, what I want to askyou is and i'm'm going to this
is a question I'm going to ask alot of people what do you think
?
How has streaming changedobviously, the business, and how
has streaming changed youropinion, your approach to doing
A&R?
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I mean, I feel like streaming has helped the
business.
The business was dying beforestreaming, so it's definitely
helped in that way.
But I feel like they still haveto get the rates right to pay
the songwriters and theproducers.
They still have to figure thatout for sure so that I hope in
in the next coming year, sixmonths, that they, you know, can
(38:08):
figure that out.
But, um, yeah, streaming, Iknow before streaming you know
was it was set digital downloadsand still trying to sell cds
and stuff like that and it justwasn't working.
So streaming helped.
But does it change my approachto anr?
No, I still go for the thingsthat I feel, the things that I
feel like are ahead, like, likeyou said, I always want to be
(38:30):
ahead of the curve too.
I'd rather be ahead and missedthan be behind and missed.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah, so yeah, I just want to be ahead of the curve
on things.
I want to do things that I'mpassionate about and that I love
, and yeah, that's it.
There's no data or TikTok orwhatever that could make me, you
know, move on something.
I did that one time and Iregretted it.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Why did you regret it ?
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Because it didn't work out and I was just chasing
like numbers in a trend andthat's not how I got to where I
am today.
When I signed Ty, he hadabsolutely nothing going on.
Signed Leon, he had absolutelynothing going on and it was just
great music that I believed in.
So we have to keep the musicfirst.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, I always felt like with the chasing, the
numbers and analytics, it's avery dangerous game because if
something's popping now, by thetime you do the process and sign
it and everything you've missedout.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
You've missed it.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
It's gone.
It's three months later orsometimes even more, and it's
like whatever that thing was,that was hot, is now gone and
the kids on those platforms havemoved on.
And so now you're trying toregenerate something that
they've moved on, and then a lotof times also with those
artists, respectfully, theydon't quite know what they're
doing.
They kind of stepped in shit.
(39:52):
So when you ask them to do itagain, they're like I don't even
know what I did the first time.
Right, you know what I'm saying.
So it's kind of that's real.
You know what I'm saying.
So it's kind of a dangerousgame, man.
You know, tell me an artistthat you wanted.
Well, you told me about drake,but if there's another artist
that you wanted to sign, but uh,but you didn't because you know
(40:15):
for for whatever reason it'sbeen a list of them.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I know you got this conversation offline.
Yeah, I mean you go back todrake.
He's the biggest artist in theworld, uh, andrick, so go.
It's a story about that.
So I was in new york for Iforgot what I was in new york
for.
But I was in new New York forthe week, up at the old Atlantic
office, and Kendrick wassitting in his little room to
the side of Craig's office.
(40:39):
So I went in there and I waschopping it up with him and then
Craig was like, coming to themeeting with me and listen to
this kid.
I don't know nothing about him,but come listen to him.
So we get in the meeting andKendrick plays the intro from
Overly Dedicated, and he playedthat one song and I was like
sign him now.
Like this kid is the fuckingone.
(41:00):
So of course they were slowfooting.
So I went back to LA the nextweek and I told Mike Karen.
I was like yo, I just heardthis shit.
You got to meet with this kidnamed Kendrick and I set up the
meeting.
So they came in there and theymet with Mike Karen and it ended
up not happening.
It ended up not happening.
Yeah, I just knew from that onesong I was like oh my God, this
(41:23):
kid is fucking amazing.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yo, I remember there was this kid You'll laugh when I
but there was this kid.
You'll laugh when I but therewas this kid I got kids had
stumbled on music.
It might've been I don't know,it might've been MySpace.
It's a long time ago.
It might've been MySpace or itmight've been the LimeWire era,
whatever, but I stumbled on thiskid's music and it was real
like weird, but it was kind of.
(41:46):
It was very dark and weird, butI liked it.
I was like I don't knowsomething about this kid, I like
it.
He was talking crazy and I keptplaying and playing and I
remember playing it for other Iwas just at the Jive Days and I
was playing it for other A&Rpeople at Jive and they were
like you like this shit.
I was like yo, there'ssomething there, man, and it was
like this is trash.
(42:07):
I think I talked about it inone of our meetings and
basically I laughed at themeeting Like you bugging out,
and I kept I was like yo, Idon't know what it is, but
there's something here and he'sgoing on to do things I never
thought he would do.
It's Tyler, wow, it was.
What was it?
Was it Bastard or Goblin?
One of those first mixtapes Iforget which one.
It was one of his firstmixtapes and he was like you
(42:29):
know he was talking super crazyback then but I was like I don't
know, like something iscompelling to me.
Yeah, yeah, but you know, ifyou do A&R long enough, you got
these stories.
Yeah, I mean listen.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
I got plenty of them.
I know Jenea was another onewho I had Wow, brought her up
Party Next Door Did you haveTiller?
No, I didn't have Tiller.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Party Next Door.
I had Ty and Party Next Doorand they told me I could only
sign one of them and I ended upsigning.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Ty Signing Ty yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, I mean, I could go down a whole list of them.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, it's the game.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
It's the game.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
So tell me three of your favorite artists, and why.
And again, any genre, any, any.
It could be old, new, itdoesn't matter favorite.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
I feel like this kind of easy.
So jay-z, michael jackson,stevie wonder okay, I mean,
they're obvious that you know.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Just tell me what hit you about each of them to make
you you know.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like Jay-Z was my era, when I
was in high school, so I justremember Volume 2 coming out,
volume 1.
I remember them coming out in,you know, especially Volume 2,
though, because that's when hestarted to really, really crack.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
I remember the blueprint coming out right
before September 11th orSeptember 11th, the day it came
out, I believe, the towers felland his season came out.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yep, so I went to.
He had a.
He had a concert that week.
That's crazy.
And I went to the show.
It was crazy.
I still call it the Manhattancenter, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Yeah, just the memories, like, but all I mean
he's just the best rapper everto me.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, yeah.
And what about michael?
Speaker 3 (44:15):
then I mean the best artist ever, the biggest artist
ever, with the best songs.
He got perfect albums perfectalbums, yeah, perfect, I don't
know I mean it's very few peoplewho got perfect albums.
He got perfect albums, albums.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, ain't no skips.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
No skips.
And then Stevie Wonder, thebest songwriter of all time
probably.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
So you say he's your best songwriter ever, stevie.
Wonder, for sure.
Okay, okay, okay, okay, I mean,yeah, I mean, I'm not going to
say you're retarded.
It's ridiculous.
Yeah, it's like ridiculous.
And give me three songs thatchanged your life.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
Man.
Now this is tough.
Three songs that changed mylife, sheesh man.
Okay, I think I said thisbefore.
Stevie Wonder Rock your Love.
I love that song.
I just remember being outsidewhen when uh, with n-o-r-e nori
stands for now you're on the runeating outside.
(45:18):
When that came out, I was crazy.
That was a moment.
It's so many songs, that many.
Yeah, I was winnie houston.
I will always love you.
That song always, alwaystouched me when I heard it from
the beginning.
Yeah, I would say those three.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Okay, okay, those are three good ones, and varied.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Rocket Love, Nori and Whitney, I listen to everything
.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, I do the same.
I don't try to lock into oneparticular genre.
For me it's whoever's dope Inwhatever genre.
Genre it is like I mean nirvanawas super dope and obviously
stevie's super dope, and like ifyou, if you can master what
you're doing, I want to hear it.
Yeah, you know saying doesn'thave to be only r&b or only rap
(46:03):
or whatever.
Totally.
One more thing, one morequestion, and then we're gonna
wrap it.
Um, is there a concert, a showthat you went to that, I don't
know, changed your life?
That might be kind of strong,but that you kind of just stuck
in your brain like you knowsomething?
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Yeah for sure, it's two.
So the first ever concert Iwent to was Criss Cross, okay,
and we was in there with ourclothes on backwards that one
for sure.
And then I was there the nightat Madison Square Garden with
Jay-Z, where R Kelly didn't comeout.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I was there too.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
That was insane.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Insane.
Insane Because, again, I'm atJive at that time and so we all
like what the fuck is going on.
And then the lights are darkand nobody knows what's
happening.
And then everybody startscoming out all the other artists
.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah, all the other artists.
And then everybody startscoming out all the other artists
, yeah, all the other artists.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That night was insane , that was wild man?
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah, I was in college at that time, that was
crazy.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
That was a moment.
That was a moment.
So right now you're doing yourEasy Money thing full time.
You're working with Leon.
What are your visions for EasyMoney?
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Yeah, so we in the process of doing a new deal.
It's almost done, so we'll beannouncing that soon.
But yeah, we just want to signthe best talent with our new
partner and just grow it andcontinue to grow.
Leon he's, I feel like he'sgoing to have one of those
careers like a weekend, likejust somebody of that stature,
because he's 10, 20 years.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
10, 20 year career.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah, he could perform.
He performs as good as he sings, as good as he writes, as good
as he produces.
So, yeah, he's, he's that good,he's going to be that big but,
yeah, just continuing to growout our brand and, you know,
having us be one of the staples,the new bad boy, the new
Rockefeller, the new, you know,whatever it may be, we want to
be in those conversations.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm proud of you, man,appreciate it.
Thank you for coming throughand showing love and telling the
people your story.
I think they're going to enjoythis one.
This is a good show, Iappreciate it.
Take bits and shit.
You know some fun times.
You know what I'm saying Forsure.
I remember those meetings wewere in together at Atlantic,
you know.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Insane.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, we'll talk about that more later, yo, I
really appreciate it, sean.
Thank you for coming on, man,and eventually I would love to
get you know Leon and Ty on hereas well to talk about their
craft and all that.
You know, we're working outlater on, but I appreciate
everything, man, thank you.
Thank you, man.
Yes, sir, you can catch mixedand mastered on apple podcast,
(48:34):
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend I'm
your host, jeffrey sledge.
Mixed and mastered is producedand distributed by merrick
studios.
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