Terrell Jones

This week on Mixed and Mastered, Harlem-born stylist Terrell Jones pulls back the curtain on his journey from the block to the big stage, styling icons like Mary J. Blige and Fat Joe. Terrell breaks down how growing up in Harlem shaped his eye, why individuality is everything in fashion, and how the game has changed in the age of social media.

From wild stories with fashion legends to building a new lane in the art world, Terrell keeps it real about creativity, culture, and staying true to your style.

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Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today, on Mixed and Mastered, we're talking with
Harlem's own Terrell Jones, akaTerrellish.
He took DJ Khaled and Fat Joeand made them into fashion icons
.
20 years in, terrell dressesstars and is putting hip-hop
style into luxury fashion.
This is Mixed and Mastered withTerrell Jones.

(00:21):
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,the podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the

(00:42):
people who live there.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
Hello, mixed and Mastered witha master stylist, terrell Jones,
harlem's own.
What's up, rel?
What's up, man?

(01:02):
How you doing?
I'm good.
You want me to call you Rel,relish.
Terrell, what do you like best?
It doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Everyone knows me as a mole.
You know, some people call meRelish, some people call me
Terrell Relly it all works Relly, relly, rel.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
So, with Mr Master, what I've been doing is talking
to I think I explained to youtalking to music executives.
As of now, everybody I'vetalked to has worked in a label
in some capacity.
I've talked to, like, my friend, nicole, who was the head of
Geffen Records.
I've talked to Sean C, who youknow from Harlem, who worked as
an A&R person, and on and on andon Whitney Gail Bento, who
worked at several labels too, onand on Whitney, whitney Gail
Bento, who worked at severallabels too.
But I also want to do this showto show all facets of the music

(01:50):
industry.
So I know one of the things nowwhich has really gotten popular
in my opinion you might correctme if I'm wrong over the past
few years is more and more kidshave gotten deeper into fashion
and more and more kids are goingto be stylists.
And I don't, I don't even knowthe path to get to that, but you

(02:12):
are a stylist.
You've been a stylist for many,many years.
You styled some of the biggestnames in in in the industry on,
you know and I.
So I wanted to talk to youbecause I wanted you to tell
your story Number one, and so Iwanted to talk to you because I
wanted you to tell your storynumber one and it's kind of
maybe in telling your story kidswill kind of catch some jewels
on how to maybe pursue theirdream.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah.
So I definitely want to sharemy story, but I feel like my
story is one that no longerexists anymore because obviously
I've started.
I've been in this for 25 years.
So 25 years ago, the way thatyou actually had entree to the
music industry or to the fashionindustry was totally different
than what it is today, becausethis was pre-social media.

(02:54):
I know my story, but today Ithink that it's a.
I just think it's a completelydifferent ballgame.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
But my story is actually no, no no, we're going
to start from the beginning now.
We're gonna start from the verybeginning.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Okay, you're born and raised in harlem, new york yes,
I'm born and raised in harlem,which tell me tell me about
growing up in harlem, just asthe real the kid harlem not born
and raised in harlem to me islike the mecca of fashion.
so, as most people in the guccidays were introduced I mean,
when I'm talking about, I'mtalking about around the globe

(03:28):
were being introduced to DapperDan, that was someone who was
making, like my Easter clothes,my graduation clothes, growing
up as a kid.
So I have clothes from Dapperprobably dating back to like
five years old if I'm notmistaken.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Wow, so you got some classic material.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
I have classic materials and I mean this is
before you were doing like gucciand louis vuitton and finney
and mcm dap actually used to docustom suits for myself I'm a
twin, so for myself and mybrother, so that was something
that I grew up with.
Um, growing up in harlem,obviously I feel like that's
like the mecca or the capital offashion, different layers and

(04:05):
levels of fashion, so I can justtake you through like a weekend
in Harlem.
So Friday, saturdays, obviouslyyou had the flyest people come
out, meaning dressed in the bestdesigners, the furs, the
leathers, the cars.
I mean it was a completelifestyle.
And then you had.
I grew up.
My grandmother was in the blockof Abyssinia, which is a famous
church in Harlem.

(04:26):
For me, that was where I wasactually able to also further my
connection with fashion,because you saw people getting
dressed up for church.
This is when people got dressedfor church.
When I say from head to toe, Imean from head to toe.
So women had on gloves, theywore hats, they wore amazing
hosiery, they wore beautifuldresses, they wore fur coats.
My grandmother and mygreat-grandmother were one of

(04:49):
those women, so that was whenyou were really able to see who
actually had style, who actuallyexuded a certain level of style
.
It was that transition, thatturning point for me, which to
me was my introduction to sortof kind of high fashion style, I
mean.
Andre.
Leontali, I mean Andre Leontali.
Everyone knows the great AndreLeontali.
Rest in peace, of course, ofcourse, of course.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
He was a member of Abyssinian.
Yeah, because I used to see himin the morning sometime on
145th.
Yeah, I'd be out like gettingbreakfast or whatever Sunday
morning.
I'd see him driving.
He had like a Benz.
I'd see him driving.
He had a Benz.
I'd see him driving down for aminute to go into Abyssinian.
I've seen him several times inHarlem.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
So that speaks for itself as to where what I was
able to receive, the gift that Iwas able to receive just from
being born and raised in Harlemand being connected to the
church community, and whatchurch had to offer style and
high fashion and luxury for ourcommunity.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
You know, no one else was high fashion but more
street wear.
That I don't think they doanymore.
I know you remember.
You remember Easter peoplewould go to Times Square.
Yes, they would put on theirleather suits or whatever.
They'd fly.
And Easter Sunday evenings atTimes Square would be like this
gathering of kids from allboroughs because obviously Times

(06:05):
Square is the midpoint whereyou can get to any there from
any borough and all these kidswould just be walking around
42nd Street and taking thepictures with the.
You know that you bought in thelittle folder thing and all
that.
I remember that too.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
That was our runway back then.
Yes, so in my generation we didTimes Square, but then we also
had the car show at Jacob JavitsConvention Center, so that was
one place that you were going.
You actually had 125th Streetwhere all the street vendors
were out, and so you went there.
If you were going to like amovie theater or something like

(06:40):
that, you went to carnivals.
But what was most important,like you said about easter
sunday, was your after churchoutfit.
That's what to put on yourgreat leather jacket.
That's what you were able toput on your amazing denim suit.
That's what you were able toget off your great.
Whatever the footwear of thetime was, whether they were
jordans or patrick ewins ordeodorants, whatever it was that

(07:02):
was your moment to shine to me.
Me, that was the original.
In one day, that was FashionWeek.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yes, exactly, I wanted to talk to you about a
couple things.
We know, as you discussed, theblack church is very influential
in fashion.
We talked about Times Squareand Jacob Javis and all that.
Another thing that wasinfluential in fashion and we
you know, obviously we justtalked about times square and
jacob javis and all that, butanother thing that was
influential, is influential infashion.
The price is still now is highschool, high school, yes.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
So tell me about your high school experiences in
fashion and you know like, tellme about that as well well
before I have to bring you backto before I even got to high
school, because my family, wegrew up, they uh, they uh, my
parents put us in Catholicschool, okay, so I only made it
to fourth grade in thisparticular school when my my
brother and my my sister, theycontinued and went on, but I

(07:54):
only made it to fourth grade andmy mom asked me what's going on
?
Why don't you want to attendCatholic school anymore?
And I said to her um, and thankGod for my mother for listening
to me I said to her I no longerwant to wear the same clothes
every day.
And she said to me Terrell,school is not a fashion show, so
that's not a good enough reason.
But when the school year was,actually when it was time to go

(08:14):
back, she actually did notenroll me and she allowed me to
go to public school, which iswhere I was actually able to
discover my own sense of style,Because it't work my spirit nor
my personality to be in aclassroom of 32 people dressed
just alike.
That I was probably nine yearsold.
At nine years old, I knew thatthat just didn't feel good to me
and that I needed to discover,dig deeper within myself.

(08:38):
And obviously at that momentnow I'm able to say as a grown
man, at 46 years old, I justneeded to find my identity.
But it was just very early thatI knew that I needed, I had my
own identity.
It was just a matter ofdiscovering it, and discovering
it through style and throughfashion.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
So was that kind of at the point where you realized
I mean, you're nine, so youdon't really know, but it's like
kind of like, this is what Ikind of want to do, but I don't
really know what it is.
You have a passion Did.
This is what I kind of want todo, but I don't really know what
it is.
You have a passion, you startto get a passion for fashion.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, I had a passion for fashion, obviously, because,
like my mother said, school hadbecome my fashion show and that
was my way to.
That was the language that Ispoke, so that was my way to
communicate, that was the waythat I expressed myself.
So it was all through fashion,and that was when I was in fifth
grade that I realized this iswho Terrell is, or this is who
Terrell is becoming, and this isone layer of me, but this is

(09:30):
the layer that I'm choosingright now.
That will be my form ofcommunication, the language that
I would speak for the rest ofmy life.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
And it was fashion and I definitely knew that at
five years old I didn't know itwould be a career path for me,
but I definitely knew that itwas a part of me that was dying
to be brought to life.
So take me to.
Let's move up a few years.
Take me to how you, because Iread you were working at Iceberg
.
You were VP at Iceberg.
Yes, tell me how you got into.
For those who don't knowIceberg, I think they're still
around.
It was a clothing line that wasvery popular in the 90s to the
2000s.
I guess it was a very popularclothing line and I want to know

(10:14):
how you got to that point.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
That was also an interesting time for me.
So, iceberg, I got therebecause a dear friend of mine
who was also a fashion persontold me that there's a job
opening and it was eitherWomen's Wear Daily or DNA and
they're looking for areceptionist.
And I was like, oh, I'm open to, I just want to work in a

(10:40):
showroom.
I would love to just work in afashion house, so I'll take a
position as a receptionist inthis showroom.
I would love to just work in afashion house, so I'll take a
position as a receptionist inthis showroom.
I've gone so obviously this isout of a newspaper, this is out
of a fashion paper back then.
So that sort of kind of unheardof today.
That's how you get your job.
So I apply and I get a call andI go in for the interview.

(11:00):
The interview was very specialin itself because as soon as I
got to the interview theyprobably asked me two or three
questions and I'll never forgetI wore Burberry to this
interview.
They never said what fashionhouse or anything.
They actually used the umbrellaof the house, so they never
said that it was the iceberglabel, but sort of kind of just
like the head of the house.
So you don't know where, youdon't really know what you're
interviewing for.
They gave me an outfit and saidI know this is strange, but

(11:27):
would you mind trying this onfor us?
And I'm like sure.
So I go into the bathroom and Ichange and I try on this outfit
for him and I come out and shesays I'm so sorry, I know this
is probably.
You're probably thinking I'm acrazy person, but can you walk
in that other room and just showit to some people in there?
And I'm just like, okay, I goin and I walk and I show them

(11:48):
the outfit, and the people lookand they nod their head and
they're like, oh, that's amazing.
And she says, okay.
Then I go back in the interviewroom and she said would you do
me another favor?
I said, yeah, what is it?
She said would you try onsomething else for me?
And I said what do you want meto try on?
She said just look at that rack.
Anything you want, just do ityour way.

(12:08):
So I go and I grab some stuffreally quickly and I go in the
bathroom and I change and Ithrow a sweater over my shoulder
and she says will you also goin there and show it to those
gentlemen sitting at the table,and I go and I show it to them
and that's it.
And then she says you've beenamazing, thank, and that's it.
And then she says you've beenamazing.
Thank you so much.
Interview's over.
By the time I get home, at thatpoint in life, you had an
answering machine.
I had a voice message sayingwe'd love to meet you again, Can

(12:31):
you come back tomorrow?
And I'm like sure, that's fine,I go back tomorrow.
And she says, well, so I wantto offer you a position.
But I want to offer you a veryweird position.
And I said, okay, she said so,I want you to be the
receptionist part time.
But I also want to know if youcould be a fit model for me.
Because what you did in theinterview was you sold some
clothing.
Not only did you sell theclothes, those were buyers from

(12:51):
very important stores and I'mlike, OK, she said so, they
brought what you sold which wascanceled out of the collection.
But they also said that we needto have you as the fit model
because you actually brought theclothes to life and that was
when I actually got in theiceberg family and then it sort
of kind of took off from there.
So I never actually really wasable to become the receptionist.

(13:12):
They structured everythingaround me.
A receptionist normally sat ata desk and answer the phone.
I never had a desk.
They brought a cordless phonefor me and they were like answer
the phone when you can, butwe're back to back in
appointments and it's and it'sbuying season and we just want
you to model.
And yeah, we just want you tomodel.
And I'm like, okay, fine.
And then from there they weregoing to a convention called

(13:34):
magic in Las Vegas and thepresident of the company said so
my sales ladies told me thatthey'll quit if they can't bring
you to magic with them.
And I'm like, huh.
And he's like, yeah, so can yougo to Las Vegas?
And I'm like I guess.
So he's like whatever you need,we'll pay you extra whatever you
need, but they said that theywill not want to go if you can't
go with them, and that's how itall began.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
That is an amazing story.
Now, how old are you at thistime?
I'm.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
At this time.
I'm probably about, maybe about23.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Wow, 23.
And that was your entree into,like the, I guess, the corporate
air quotes side of fashion verycrazy life.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
I went to performing arts high school, so I was a
dance major, so I thought that Iwas going to.
I was 1000% sure that I wasgoing to grow up and become a
professional dancer.
And there was this woman andshe had the most amazing style
and she was about a year or twoahead of me and she'd like
graduated.
And when she graduated, Ihadn't.
I didn't see her anymore.
And then one day she came backaround and she just had the most
amazing style and she was themost beautiful girl you've ever

(14:47):
seen.
She said to me you have suchgreat style, you should like
help me out one day.
My boyfriend's a singer.
And I'm like, oh yeah, whatever.
And next thing, you know, herboyfriend was at the time.
I want to make sure I have itright.
Her boyfriend was Jojo ofJodeci.
He had done a music video.
I saw her running to the storeand she had on a Jodeci jacket

(15:11):
when they did airbrushing andhis face was in the back.
And I'm like, holy shit, thisis really her boyfriend.
And then one day I was in theelevator.
No, no, no.
She said to me one day youshould come to my house and
visit me.
I'm actually working and I'mdressing someone and I could
really use your help, and I said, okay, cool.
So I go to her house and I meether, and the person that she's

(15:33):
dressing and she needs my helpwith happens to be Mary J Blige,
and that's where it all went.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
That's how it all began.
Now are Is this time, or isthis before or after, or is it
kind of simultaneous?

Speaker 2 (15:44):
No, I'm actually.
This is to be honest with you.
This is actually right before Iactually got to Iceberg.
Then she tells me about thepaper.
So I help her once or twicewith Mary.
Then she tells me about theposition.
I go and get this job atIceberg.
Then she comes back for me.
But I have a job and I go and Ijust go work and help her with
Mary J Lodge Wow.

(16:05):
And I was generous to me, sowhat I did at that time was
remember.
I'm a fit model at Iceberg.
I don't have like a position.
Season had ended, sellingseason, buying season had ended,
and so I said to them so what'snext?
And they said to me what do youwant to do next?
And I said, oh, I would love tolike work in PR.
The president of the companysaid so you should just assist a

(16:27):
girl in PR office.
I go and I assist her.
I call my friend who works withMary, and Mary has something
really big coming up and I saidyou should let us dress her.
We dressed Mary for the VMAsthat year and my boss was so
excited.
He said I need you to go toMilan because the owners of the
company want to know who gotMary J Blige to wear these

(16:47):
clothes.
So you should actually go tothe runway show in September.
And when I got there he offeredme a position as the head of PR
and celebrity wardrobing forthe brand.
So again, I was no longer.
But that was bad.
It was a gift and a curse,because then I was no longer
going to be able to be the fitmodel for the sales team.
So the sales team but thepublic relations department was

(17:09):
you know great.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
So you put Mary in a whole iceberg fit for that.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
And then we had just I, just it was just the.
It was just divine timing.
At that time little Kim wasgoing on with I want to say
maybe with Cisco, and I got intouch with Hillary and Hillary
and I we had become very friends.
Hillary West was Lil' Kim'smanager at that time and she
said to me you should design ourtour clothes Like you should

(17:39):
design our tour jackets.
And I said oh, we shoulddefinitely do them.
I said, but I don't want to dotraditional tour jackets and I
said, oh, we should definitelydo them.
I said, but I don't want to dotraditional tour jackets, I want
them to be a little bit morelittle kim.
She said what do you mean?
I said, like we'd like them inleather and maybe, like we can
like, stud out the queen b logoon the back.
I work with italy.
We design these jackets.
Kim loves this jacket.
She wears this jacket.

(17:59):
Iceberg loves the kim's in thejacket, so, so that leads to
Lil' Kim having an Icebergcampaign.
All because I was, like Kim's,a girl.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
So at this point, do you even know you're actually
being a stylist or are you justdoing your thing, like you know,
just kind of like?
Are you being a stylist or areyou just like yo, I'm working
with Iceberg and I'm hooking mypeoples up and you know, of
course I'm being compensated.
But am I, are you being?

(18:32):
I say that because when Istarted in the music business, I
tell people like my first job,I got the job, got blessed, and
the owner of that label his nameis Stu Fine he gave me his
binder and he said call allthese people every week.
So I was calling you knowrecord stores and you know
magazines and radio stations,because it was just a binder
full of jumbled stuff.
So I say I'm saying all that tosay I didn't know really that I

(18:52):
was being a promotion personand our person and I was just
calling people.
So, and I want to know it waslike that with you you just kind
of I'm in fashion, so I want todo something.
That's doing my thing.
Or did you realize you wereactually styling people?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
No, I'm in fashion so I want to do something that's
doing my thing.
Or did you realize you wereactually styling people?
No, I didn't realize it.
I realized I was having thetime of my life and I realized
that didn't have a job, that Iactually got up to do something
that I love every day andanything that I actually felt
like connected with the brand orconnected with my spirit.
I would actually pick up thephone and sort of kind of make
it happen.
So at that time there was ahuge show called 106 and Park
and it came on every day.

(19:31):
So I said I like this show, Iwatch this show, I should dress
them.
I get in touch with theirstylist.
She puts the clothes on them.
Obviously it makes greatpublicity and I'm like that's
really cool.
And then there was someone whowas wearing Iceberg at the time
who I had never met.
I had I heard of about him butI had never met him.
And it just so happens to beTrick Daddy.

(19:54):
Trick Daddy's coming to NewYork to do 106 and Park with
Trina and they're looking forsomething to wear.
So one of your people, joyBrown, actually says I don't
know, I forget how we connect,but Joy gets in touch with me,
I'm like sure, send them over,I'd love to dress them.
They literally showed up at mydoor, trick Daddy and Trina

(20:17):
alone.
No security.
I dressed them.
I send them on their way to doa taping of 106 and Park.
They do it.
Joy calls me the next day andsays that was amazing, I have a
job for you.
Are you interested?
And I said yeah sure.
I said I actually have a job.
I work here, this is my job.
She said but I have a job foryou.

(20:37):
You're like a stylist too,right, and I'm like, yeah, and
I'm like I have an artist who'scoming from Jamaica and, in the
most respectful way, but we wanthim to look a little bit more
Americanized.
Do you think you can do that?
And I said, absolutely Fastforward.
It's Sean Paul and I work atIceberg style.

(21:00):
Sean Paul, a lot of it inIceberg and everything just
worked.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
So Iceberg is this you're a golden child of Iceberg
, I'm a golden child of Iceberg.
So how long did you work atIceberg?

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I stayed there for about six or seven years.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
So you were for a while.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Six or seven years and obviously times had changed
and when they called it urbanfashion, that was sort of kind
of taking a dip and you know theSean Johns, we were the only
ones that were actually producedout of Italy.
Everyone else was sort of kindof you know, on the American
side of it.
So they had layoffs and I wasactually one of the people in

(21:39):
the layoffs and at that momentI'm like what the hell am I
going to do?
I mean, do I go work?
for Sean John?
Do I go work for Fat Farm?
Do I go work for Rockaware?
And a friend of both of ours,bevy Smith, says no, you don't
have a job, you work foryourself.
And I'm like that's impossible.
And she literally takes me to57th Street, to Bergdorf, and we

(22:04):
go.
No, actually it was Barney's,I'm sorry.
We go and we got business cardsmade.
Of course they have to be madein Barney's.
And that's when I realized Iwas a stylist, when she took me
and brought me a home faxmachine and I got a laptop and a
desk for my home office andbusiness cards and she said
that's your new, this is yournew life.
And that's why I was a stylist.
After all the styling I haddone, I mean I was with everyone

(22:26):
.
I was with Tweet, I've beenwith Mary J Blige, I've been
with Sean Paul, I've doneeverything that you could think
of, I've done tons of editorial.
But it wasn't until that momentwhen that door closed that I
realized I guess I am a stylist.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, wow, wow.
So when you started yourstyling business, who was your
first client?

Speaker 2 (22:47):
When I started my styling business, who was my
first client?
I would have to say probably.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Fat Joe.
Okay, and how did that cometogether?
Because I know you guys stillwork together now.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, that came together through his wife.
We met through a mutual friend,his wife and I Actually the
same woman that actually broughtme on for Mary.
She was still my friend and sheintroduced me to his wife one
day.
She said his wife, I have FatJoe's wife and she's looking for
an outfit and I know you'll beperfect, you know exactly what
to do.
And so I met her in Soho and Itook a shop in.
We did it, it was done, andthen she said no.

(23:27):
She said, oh, okay, I have ahusband and he's a big guy.
Maybe one day you can dress him.
She actually picks me up thenext day we go and we hang out.
She said do you know how todress big guys?
I said yeah.
She said okay, my husband's fatJoe.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
And you didn't even know Joe was her husband.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
I didn't put two together.
No, I didn't really put the twotogether.
I just knew she was reallylovely and we're still together.
Literally, we just went oversomething today, so that's about
20 years later.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
So tell me about.
That's so many questions I'mtrying to First of all tell me
about styling Joe, because hewas much heavier at that point
than he is now.
How was that hard to do?
Did you have to do a lot ofcustom stuff, or I?

Speaker 2 (24:00):
did a lot of custom.
Joe was very interesting for mebecause he had such a
relationship with style.
I was very used to introducingpeople to new things and the
clients that I obviously haddealt with then they had a sense

(24:20):
of style, but it was justeasier.
We also had the challenge ofsize and so the limitations.
So I had tons of limitationswith Joe at that particular time
, but he had such a relationshipwith style that it made up for
it.
So at that particular time myvery first job with him was a

(24:44):
video with J-Lo, and J-Lo wasshe was J-Lo.
She still is J-Lo, but she wasJ-Lo.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
That's when she first blew up.
Blew up, blew up, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
She'd blown up.
And she shows up and she comeson the trailer with Marc Anthony
and she's like what are yougoing to wear?
And Joe's like oh, terrell,show what you, you know, show
what we're doing.
And we've done all theseamazing custom leather jackets
with chinchilla trim hoods andall this amazing stuff.
Very street, very Joe, but veryelevated.

(25:15):
And J-Lo loved it.
She was like oh, I'm going tochange, I have a jacket like
that.
Her stylist and her stylistswitches it up and she switches
her whole thing up and joe'slike you know, that's j-lo.
And I'm like, yeah, I know.
He's like she loved it and I'mlike, yeah, I know.
And so that was ourrelationship, because what we

(25:36):
got to do which I feel likedoesn't really exist much today
is we got to create and buildtogether, and and Joe always
came to me with tons of trustand he was always willing to try
.
So that's how we were able tobuild a great, great
relationship together, becauseJoe was always willing to try
and he always wanted to dosomething out of the box, even

(25:58):
when he was a man of a certainsize.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Wow, that's interesting.
You say that because I don'tknow how things are now.
I know they're not the same,but back then, as an A&R person,
you'd go to all the videoshoots of your artists and any
of the other artists on thelabel, and so I remember
watching people like JuneAmbrose, for example, who worked
with R Kelly very closely backthen, and some others like, and

(26:21):
they'd bring all this stuff onand, like you said, those the
artists back then were nobodyreally wanted to look like each
other.
No, everybody wanted to havetheir own thing.
Like she really put robin inall these kind of crazy things
the rob was always down to like.
You know, let's see what itlooks like when it wears.
Now it feels like so many ofthe artists.
Now they all they have toalways wear like rick owens and
all out to wear like certain,almost like uniform, you know,

(26:45):
whereas back then everybody wasreally trying to be their own
individual self.

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Speaker 1 (27:25):
The people you're working now.
Are they still willing to trynew things or are they kind of a
little gun shy?

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, so I definitely scaled my business back in the
past, maybe like in the pastfive years.
I definitely scaled it backbecause it's just not the same
as we.
It's just nothing aboutanything is the same.
Nothing is the same and thisdoesn't have to do with COVID,
I'm just thinking about theindustry and itself.
Yeah, it's changed completelyand obviously, unfortunately, a

(27:56):
lot of that joy for me and thecreativity has definitely no
longer exist.
So for, yes, I'm fortunate thatI still am able to create some
great things with Joe.
Joe does have his own sense ofstyle, absolutely, and DJ Khaled
I've been with.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Obviously, that happened through Joe, so when I
met I was going to ask you tellus about the DJ Khaled, because
I know you've worked with himforever too.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yes, I've been with Khaled about 17 or 18 years.
We also spoke this morning.
So shout out to Khaled uh, he,joe, called me maybe one night
about 2 am and I answered thephone and he says, hey, are you
sleeping?
I'm like, well, I mean I am, butlike no.
And he says I have somebody foryou and he's going to be a
really big star and he needs astylist.

(28:46):
And he puts Khaled on the phoneand Khaled's like, hey, he's
the same Khaled that he is today.
I love what you do with Joe andI want you to dress me and I
want you to be my stylist.
And I said, okay, cool.
And at this time he didn't havea record deal, but he had a
really big birthday party once ayear, and so he said I'm going
to fly you down and dress me formy birthday party.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
In Miami.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Hey, cool.
And at that time I mean Joe isJoe, so I'm used to options.
And it was one outfit.
I never met him and I wasflying down to his birthday and
I did it.
And I flew down to his birthdayand I dressed it.
And I flew down to his birthdayand I dressed him and he said
to me when I was leaving you'regoing to be when I become famous
, You're going to be my stylist,You'll be my stylist, You'll be

(29:30):
my designer.
And of course I'm like, yeah,whatever, Everyone says that.
And 18 years later and I thinkthis is now his seventh studio
album, I have to say he was aman of his word.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
That's beautiful man.
So I want to.
I want to say he was a man ofhis word.
That's beautiful man.
So I want to jump around alittle bit, because I was
reading up and I saw you alsoworked with Tracee Ellis Ross
and you've worked with ZoeZardana, so I want to talk.
How did those come about?

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Those were editorial jobs which were also really
amazing and important to me inmy career because obviously I
had jobs that were big payingjobs, but I was also, at the
same time, trying to findbalance of jobs that had some
real good credibility to them.
So I had gotten hired.
Vibe magazine was actuallylaunching a women's Vibe
magazine which was called VibeVixen, and Tracee Ellis Ross was
going to be the face.
She was on the cover of it.
Shout out to Mimi Valdez.
Mimi Valdez was theeditor-in-chief and this was her

(30:27):
baby.
And she said I think that youcould do something really
amazing with Tracy.
And that was probably one of mymost challenging jobs to this
day, but it was one of my mostgratifying jobs because Tracy
she's actually a real person ofstyle.
She's a woman who actually Forreal Fashion editor before I

(30:51):
mean, obviously her mother isDiana Ross.
So there was no stone leftunturned when it came to doing
something for Tracee Ellis Ross.
And thank God for goodmentorship and great people in
your life.
Because again, bevy Smith camein and she said I think you're
the man for this job and I thinkyou can do this some real
justice.
And I said but how she seeseverything.
She probably has everything.
And she said, no, just dovintage.

(31:13):
And I said, okay, cool, and Bevyintroduced me to someone who
actually had an amazingcollection of vintage clothing,
even some of Diana Ross's oldclothing and all of this stuff,
some old stuff from Grace Jones,some old stuff, some old
Patrick Kelly, some old Halston.
I pulled all this vintage stuffand I remember Tracy calling me

(31:35):
and saying hey, so I'mtraveling.
I think she might have beendoing Girlfriends at the time
and my goal was to bring a lotof stuff with me, but I
literally am traveling and Ionly have one pair of my
favorite jeans with me and apair of shoes.
You think we'll be OK?
And I said I think we will beOK.
And I'll never forget the wayshe lit up when she arrived to

(31:55):
see the rack.
I want to wear it all.
And it was supposed to be likemaybe two photos and I think we
shot about six different outfits.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Wow, wow, yeah.
So tell me, tell me, like, isthere a?
There is like?
Tell me, like, the sciencebehind styling.
Like if you were talking to meand I was a 14 year old kid 16
year old kid, you know, and Iwas kind of I think that's what
I want to do is there a sciencebehind it?
Like, how do you like?
Again, you, I know you try togive each person their own thing
.
You know you're not like, youknow.
So how do you like?
Again, I know you try to giveeach person their own thing?
You know you're not like, youknow.

(32:27):
So how do you kind of look atit?
Tracy, you kind of told thatstory.
But how do you look at some ofyour clients and say I think
they'd be good at doing this, orthey'd be good at doing that,
wearing this or wearing that?
I know there's a math behind it.
See, I think a lot of peoplethink, as a stylist, you're just
grabbing clothes with labels onthem and you know, and you just
put this on.
But I know you are a scientistwith this, you're like a master

(32:49):
at this craft.
You've done your 10,000 hoursright.
So I want you to kind ofexplain that, so people kind of
know there's more to it thanjust going buying some hot shit
at the mall.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
I think the science actually is the gift, and the
gift is the style and being ableto see style in everything and
in everyone.
I think everyone has a sense ofstyle.
I look at any and every personand I'm able to pull something
from that.
That's one of my reasons forstill being a lover of riding

(33:23):
the subway or sitting outside ofthe cafe anywhere where I can
people watch, because for methat's inspiration.
So the kid who wears, the kidwho gets out of school, that's
style, because he's normally alittle undone.
His shirt might be out of hispants, his book bag is hanging

(33:44):
off, he might have his jackettucked in his book bag, his tie
may be loose or lost.
To me, that style it's just.
Where does it fit?
I get that job to dress that kidin a music video or that kid in
a commercial or a movie Iautomatically have my canvas, I

(34:06):
automatically have the blueprintfor that particular type of
style, because I got that fromwatching a kid jump off the bus
running to his parents orhanging out with his friends and
I was able to pick up thatstyle and store it.
So I think it's just being ableto see style in everything.
Not only that, I think thescience today that still works

(34:27):
for me is knowing that everybodyhas their own individuality and
finding your own individualstyle.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Not everyone can wear a hat.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Not everyone can wear glasses, not everyone looks
good in a track suit, noteveryone looks good in print,
certain people don't work incolors, so there are just.
It's basically like a scrambledpuzzle and every time.
You should be able to put thatpuzzle together and literally
come, but the outcome should bea different picture with each,

(34:58):
with each try.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
That's my science.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Okay, that's your science, so let let me.
I want to go back a little bitwith, uh, mr tally.
Did you get to spend any timewith him and talk to him about
fashion, or did you just kind ofsee the church?

Speaker 2 (35:14):
my first interaction with them was me walking down
madison avenue one day andlooking in the window of harry
winston I don't know what I hadon, but obviously my office was
really close to there and helooked at me and he said you
look amazing.
Wow, I don't think I reallyknew who he was at that time.

(35:36):
I knew I knew something abouthim, but I don't think I
connected the dots completely.
The next time that I'd actuallyencountered him was actually at
Fashion Week, going to a show,and I might have had on a fur
coat.
And he just came over to me,tapped me on the shoulder and
said can I take a picture of you?
And I said yes, and he took thephoto of me and then Bevy said

(35:57):
that's Andre.
That's a big deal.
If he wants to take a pictureof you, that's a big deal.
And then, maybe about a week ortwo later, bill Cunningham had
actually, uh, serviced thepicture of the New York Times,
which happened to be the biggestpicture in the style section,
and it was me wow.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
So again for those who don't know, bill Cunningham
was a fashion photographer whowould walk around.
This dude he was, he was early,like what, the kids not doing
social media?
He was doing that in print.
He would literally, you know,he would kind of dress down and
he would just walk around thestreet and if you had some fly
stuff on he'd take a picture andhe'd take pictures of all these

(36:34):
people.
And sometimes he'd go to eventsand just take pictures.
He was very correctly, if I'mwrong, but he was kind of very
removed, he just took pictures.
He wasn't like trying to be acelebrity, he was trying to take
pictures.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
That was a hobby job he actually made.
He was a hat maker.
He was a millinery, so he madehats.
That was his actual career.
This was a hobby for him justto capture photos and he was
just so good at it because ofhis innate eye and his sense of
style.
New York Times has its ownsection and that's how Bill
Cunningham actually became theperson.
But in one year I think BillCunningham has shot me and put

(37:10):
me in the New York Times stylesection three times.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Which I heard is pretty unheard of.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yeah, that's crazy.
One time was crazy, three isamazing.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
One time and I don't even think I brought the paper,
but I don't think maybe I didn'tbuy it this particular day.
And of course again we'll hearabout a zillion times, probably
because she's just thatintertwined with my life.
Bevy calls me on a Mondaymorning in my office and says
did you get the newspaper?
And I said no.
She says I need you to go outand get the Sunday Times.

(37:39):
So I run out of my office and Iget the Sunday Times and I call
her back and she says now go tothe style section.
I go to the style section andthe biggest picture on the page
is me and she, I told you andI'm like oh, wow, wow.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
So what is your take on, like you said, everything's
changed, everything's differentnow, where fashion is now and
where it's going, because again,like I said, from the outside,
looking in, it's become a thingLike it was a thing.
But now it's really become athing like, especially because
of the advent of social media,like everybody wants to take
pictures in their fits andeverybody wants to get dressed

(38:20):
up and people are, like you know, going to paris, that they,
rappers or not, are going toparis now for the fashion shows
and all that stuff which wasn'thappening um a few years ago.
So what's your take on wherefashion is going now and how is
it affecting you as a stylist?
Besides the money beingdifferent, just where do you see
it going?

Speaker 2 (38:37):
I won't say it's affecting me because, um, I
believe in transition and I alsobelieve in outgrowing things,
so I and I'm also open to change.
Okay, it hasn't had thisaffected me personally as far as
like the way that I used tocreate, but after, after 25
years, I think that it was justtime for me to transition and to

(38:59):
do some different things, whichis what I'm working on now, and
that's totally fine.
I'm excited for this newgeneration.
What I will say to them isutilize your access, not just
for now, but to make a change,have some impact in it.
So in my time of coming up, itwasn't really common to work

(39:21):
hands-on with the actualdesigners.
That wasn't really a thing.
I mean, we were lucky.
We very rarely could even getinto the fashion houses when we
were young stylists.
That's why it was important forme to make my mark and hold my
seat at Iceberg, because I wasable to let the Sybil Penick
needed to do because they didn'thave, they weren't really

(39:59):
offered the resources as easilyas everyone else and you weren't
really given access to ashowroom unless you were doing a
high-end editorial.
So if it wasn't your Vogue,your Bazaar, your InStyle I will
say Vibe Magazine, if it wasn'tone of those publications, you
weren't really granted the keyto get through them.
So now you actually can get in.

(40:22):
You can get in easy and notonly can you get in, you can
work hand in hand with thedesigner or the creative
director of the house.
So for me, I'm saying utilizethat.
Utilize it because I actuallydo so.
Now, when I, when Dolce Gabbanaor someone wants to work with
me, I work directly with Dolceand I tell them exactly what I
want to see for my client,because no one knows my client

(40:43):
better than I do.
So I say this is what looksgood on Callie, and I want to
source the fabrics and I want totell you the silhouettes and I
want to work with you.
And it is a partnership, whichis a beautiful thing, but it's
an access, it's an opportunitythat didn't always exist.
So I hold great pride when Iactually do have those
opportunities to really createBecause, again, I do believe

(41:07):
that we shape the culture.
We shape the culture, and one ofmy exiting positions at Iceberg
was basically sort of kind oflike collection approval.
So what I would do is when.
What I would do was I would shophere in New York City or
anywhere that I wanted to shop,and I would travel with a bunch
of clothes over to Italy toactually give them what was hot,

(41:28):
wow, basically share what wasmoving the needle culturally in
the States, Because thesedesigners at that time they
weren't coming to the, theyweren't coming to the U?
S.
So I realized at that moment ashift that happened because
remember, I don't know if youknow, but I used to look to
Italy, to Europe, to Paris, allthose to basically that's where

(41:51):
I thought that I would feed from.
But once I realized howimportant and powerful my
culture was and how we wereshaping it and how we were
actually driving that train, Irealized, oh, there's a lot of
power in this, because it's justour personal, innate style,
it's not really creatinganything, it's what you do with
what's already created.
So I say, take advantage of allthe opportunity that they have

(42:16):
today.
Work very closely with thedesigners, not only use your
style, use your voice.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
So let me ask you I already know your answer, but
I'm going to ask you like, so,seeing two Harlemites younger
Harlemites, killing it, a$apRocky, sienna, taylor, right,
these are two born and bredharlemites came, came up through
it and now we're like atpinnacles in the fashion world
as long as as well other thingsare doing with acting and stuff

(42:45):
like that.
But like, do you, have you hada lot of interaction with them
and have you kind of helpedguide them along the way or get
a chance to talk about whatthey're doing?

Speaker 2 (42:53):
I haven't had to guide them because they
obviously they they've been,they're doing.
I haven't had to guide thembecause they obviously they've
been.
They're bred from the sameblueprint as themselves.
They actually have it, theyhave an idea.
Honestly, I think that they areactually today's blueprint for
how people should actuallyconduct themselves in a room
full of style, because they'regoing to yeah, break that down,
break that down.

(43:15):
I think that they have their ownstyle and I think that they're
style leaders and I think thatwhat they do is they take their
style over to Europe and theyallow Europe to feed off of what
they deliver, what they bringto the table.
Because Tiana is that girlwho's very diverse in her style.
In her style she can doanything from Adidas track suit

(43:41):
with some great constructionboots or a head to toe Rick
Owens look.
What I think Tiana's power isis bringing it all to life.
She can wear anything.
Why?
Because she's Tiana.
Also, why Because she's fromHarlem and Harlem has a very
special relationship with style.
I mean, tiana is birthed fromlike a very stylish mother.
I'm sure ASAP comes from abunch of style and his uncles

(44:04):
Everyone has great style in hisfamily.
So they actually have theownership, they actually own
their own style, which is whythey're able to then go and
bring other people's vision andstyle to life.
So they're like the modernmannequins, but they actually
come with style.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
That's actually a good phrase.
You need to trademark thatmodern mannequins.
That was dope, that was dope.
Um, now you also design.
Yes, so talk about how you yougot into that and what you, what
you've done with that.
That.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
So I have tons of respect and admiration for
actual designers by trade and Ilove and respect them so much
because it's just such a gift.
I was led to design.
I was forced to design becausemy resources were so limited, so
what I would do is I wouldactually go take myself down to

(44:57):
the garment industry anddistrict, rather, and I would
actually.
I learned to source fabricsmyself.
I learned, I taught myself howto source fabrics, how to source
zippers, how to create buttons,lining and anything that you
could think of, from A to Z, anytool that I would need to
create something for something,not just something, something

(45:19):
special for my clients.
So I am a creator because Igive a designer their credit
that I don't want to ever sit inthe seat of.
I'm a designer and they've goneto school and they've studied
and there's a whole guide inhistory to what they do in a
magic I create.
So what I do is I have an ideain my mind and what my job is to

(45:43):
then bring it to life and how Ibring it to life.
I bring it to life throughdesign.
So once I source fabrics, Iplay with sketches or work with
the sketch artists and takeeverything that's in my head and
I have them bring that to paper.
So they put pen to paper andthey bring that together for me,
and then I take that and I gosit with a tailor or a master

(46:06):
seamstress and someone whoactually can obviously again
take what was in my head, whichis now transferred to this paper
, which will now be transferredto actual garments which then
become my designs.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Would you suggest that that be a?
I was going to say path, butnot the right term a skill a
skill that somebody young tryingto get into it should kind of
have.
I mean, maybe they're notnaturally gifted like you, but
it's almost like just kind ofknowing how to do it, even if
they don't become actualdesigners.
It's kind of knowing theprocess of it.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
I encourage them to just learn the basics of it
being able to have aconversation about fabric, being
able to source, being able tounderstand the difference in the
teeth and zippers, being ableto understand what you can do
with a button and just basicallyexpanding your resources.
It's really just creating whatdoesn't exist.

(47:06):
That's that I thrive off of Alot of my ideas, a lot of my
designs.
I dream about them, so Godgives them to me in a dream.
However, it works.
In my dream I could see someoneor be watching something on TV,
but what locks in with me iswhat someone has on.

(47:28):
And then I wake up and I writeit down.
Or I wake up and when I startmy day, I say, ok, I have a
dream about this multicolor,whatever jacket.
I'm going to go create that.
And so that leads me down thento source fabrics and once those
fabrics, I then take that ideathat I dreamt about and I say I

(47:52):
want to see how I play with itand I do it, and that's that's
what happens.
And then at that point I havesomething that I've designed.
It's literally a one of a kind,because it doesn't exist
anywhere.
I only saw it in my dream butit wasn't in reality, so I bring
it to reality.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Okay, so tell me what's going on with you now and
what's next.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
So what's going on with me now?
I don't know the universe.
What's going on with me now?
I don't know the universe.
What's going on with me now isI'm still unfolding and
unlocking gifts I was interestedin purchasing.
I'll tell you a quick story.
I was interested in purchasingsome Black art, so I've been
connecting with a lot of Blackartists on Instagram throughout

(48:34):
the pandemic and just lockinginto stuff.
As you see, like Kehinde Wileyis on my wall and those are his
plates and I love Kehinde.
He's amazing, a great guy, and Ilove him.
So I've been wanting to havesome Black art in my life, in my
space and in my world, and so Ifound this amazing artist on
Instagram named Robert Patterson, and I reached out to him and I

(48:56):
said I love your work and Iwould love to you know, look at
it, and I definitely love it.
And so he followed.
He said he saw me on Fat Joe,saw Fat Joe talking about me, or
maybe Fat Joe had posted me andI said you know, one day I want
to, I want to definitely talkto you about purchasing a piece
of your art.
And he responded and said oh,that's amazing, you have a great

(49:18):
style, you're actually art.
And I'm like thank you, youknow.
And he said you should let mepaint you.
And I said OK cool, whatever.
And he calls me and he says Ihave a photographer in New York
City and I want her to shoot you.
And I just, I have one requestJust don't wear any plaids or
any crazy patterns, because itcan be very hard with the
strokes.
And I said, okay, it's totallyfine.
And he met this woman.

(49:39):
She took some photos of me.
She sends them off to Robertand a year later, fast forward
to last week Robert says hey, Ihave this exhibit and it's going
to take place in New York Cityand your photo is the last photo
that I'm working on.
Your painting is the lastpainting, and then it's going to
be picked up and it's shippedinto new york city.
Are you available for theopening of my exhibit?
And I said, absolutely, I'mgonna come, I'm gonna come

(50:01):
whatever.
And that day happens lastthursday, and robert calls me
and he says and I want toremember, I'm trying to buy this
, I'm trying to buy art.
That's what this happened.
Robert calls me and he says hey, what's up, man?
I'm like, hey, what's up?
He's like you're on for tonight.
I'm like, yeah, hey, what's up.
He's like you on for tonight.
And I'm like, yeah, he says soI have good news and I have bad
news and I'm like, okay, and hesays so.
The good news is everyone lovesyour painting.

(50:22):
The bad news is it just sold toa museum.
What?
What do you mean?
That's what I said and he saidthat's not bad news.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
I guess I know what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
You know I wanted to buy it yeah.
So now, so this painting that Igo see, it now has a permanent
home of me in the Wichita ArtsMuseum and it'll be there for
like the next 100 years.
Anyone can go see it, obviously.
And so that's how my life isunfolding.
I'm working on some film andtelevision and I'm also bringing

(50:56):
my life.
I'm working on some film andtelevision and I'm also bringing
my life.
So if you ask me how it'sunfolding, it's unfolding with
me removing myself from behindthe camera and coming into the
front of the camera and I was soopen to doing this interview,
not because you're also myfriend and I think you're
amazing I love this platformthat you've built but also
coming to the forefront a littlebit and just sharing my life.

(51:18):
So obviously now I'm going toexist someplace in the art world
forever and I want to create atelevision show.
I'm actually working withsomeone trying to create a
television show, loosely basedon, like my life and how my life
is actually how my lifeactually works, how?
Because I still am trying tograsp how it works right, like

(51:38):
you're asking me how I like tograsp iceberg, and it's through
a newspaper and then it unfoldsinto all these twists and turns
and then fast forward.
I, how do I wind up in aWichita Arts Museum just from a
photo from a person that I nevermet?
I didn't meet the artist untillast week in person.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Remember, he just sketched you, yeah, on social
media?
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
And he said you're art, and then now I'll be in a
museum.
For the rest of you know, justthroughout life, that'll be the
home of a painting of me.
So I think that's what my lifeis, that's what I'm doing with
my life.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
That's amazing.
I got two more questions,whatever you need, and I should
have asked this earlier, butanyway, how has social media
changed fashion in your opinion?

Speaker 2 (52:26):
I think the way that social media has changed fashion
is it's sort of kind ofoversaturated it.
You know, fashion Week was avery special.
That was like a holiday for us,right, because it was sort of
kind of like an unveiling.
You didn't get to see anythingbefore and obviously you don't

(52:47):
really even get to see anythingafter.
You didn't really see anythinguntil it actually hit the stores
or was in a publication, was insome kind of editorial for a
shoot, and then you actuallydidn't, you weren't reintroduced
to it or you actually weren'treally introduced to it until it
actually hit the stores.
Now it's so accessible, you canclick, you can watch anything

(53:11):
and everything.
I don't think it's necessarilya bad thing, I think it's.
But I definitely think it lostthem.
It definitely decreased themagic, lost the mystique.
It lost that mystique.
I like mystique, I likemysterious, I like surprise, I
like unveiling, I like the ideaof the unexpected.

(53:32):
You don't know what you'regoing to see.
Now there's just a lead up,anything Like.
You can just share it with theworld and it's just like.
And for me, things get old tome as a creative, things get old
very quickly to me.
So once I've seen something ranthrough social media for the
past month.
I don't know that it moves mewhen I see it in person.
I don't know that I have thatsame you know, that same

(53:54):
attraction to it because I'veseen it.
I've seen it over and over andover, I've seen it all over the
place.
So it's not really, it's notreally special to me at that
moment.
So I think that's, it's justtaking away some of the magic
for me, ok, ok.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Second thing I'm going to ask this of everybody,
again, without incriminatinganybody.
And if you can't think ofanything, you can't say it's
fine, again withoutincriminating anybody.
And if you can't think ofanything, you can't say it's
it's fine.
Give me one crazy story aboutworking in fashion and that and
that you know, but get you.
I don't want to get nobody introuble, I don't want to bite,
but just give me a crazy story,and you don't have to even
mention the person who it was,but just give me a crazy story

(54:31):
behind the scenes, whatever,that's a real question um,
because I have a few of them,okay, so.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Okay.
So I got t-pain as a clientrandomly.
He no longer wanted to wear thebig hats anymore, and so they
call me and they say, hey, sot-pain is looking for a new
person and you, can you have ameeting in miami with his
management?
I'm like, yes, they said hewants to look regular.
And I'm like, well, what doesthat mean?
He wants that mean he wants tolook right.
Yeah, I said so he doesn't wantto wear big hats.
He doesn't want to wear bighats anymore, he wants to look

(55:02):
regular.
So I said, okay, cool, and Iget this job with pain.
And he says to me is there anyway possible you could make a
wooden jacket?
And I'm like a wooden jacket.
And I said wait, so you meanlike a jacket made out of wood?
And he's like yeah, and I'mlike I don't think that that's

(55:23):
possible.
But let me see what I can do.
Let me figure something out foryou.
And Payne is, if you know Payne, he's extremely Very, he's a
gifted.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
He's gifted, he's gifted.
He's so talented guy.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
And so I said I can't do a wooden jacket.
But I commissioned this artistwho's amazing at airbrushing and
and sort of kind of, has thisthree D, three dimensional sort
of kind of thing,three-dimensional sort of kind
of thing.
And I said I just need you tomake this leather.
I want a leather jacket.
But then I want you to airbrushit and basically give it the
appearance of a wooden shellacfloor.

(56:04):
And he does it and I present itto Payne and Payne is like you
can fucking do anything, get it.
Can you make me a glass jacket?
I said that I can't do.
I can make a glass jacket.
I said that I can't, I can'tmake a glass jacket.
But I'm glad that I was able tomake your dreams of having a
wooden jacket at least appear tobe wooden, because it was for a
photo shoot and it looked likeit was made of wood.

(56:27):
That's amazing.
I've never had a dress likethat before.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
Yeah, thank you for your time,brother.
Thank you, thank you for yourtime, brother.
We could do this for 5 hours.
I really.
This was fun, man.
It was amazing.
You can catch Mixed andMastered on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend I'm

(56:53):
your host, jeffrey Sledge.
Mixed and Mastered is producedand distributed by Merrick
Studios.