July 23, 2025 • 52 mins
Prepare for an electrifying episode of "Mixed and Mastered" as Jeffrey Sledge sits down with the legendary Wardell Malloy! Journey from the vibrant streets of the Bronx to the epicenter of the music industry, where Wardell shares his incredible path, working alongside icons like Chris Brown, Trey Songz, and Mariah Carey. Dive into the art of mentorship, the thrill of discovering new talent, and Wardell's creative passion for photography. With tales of nurturing future stars and insights into the music business, this episode is a must-listen for music lovers and aspiring executives alike. Don't miss this dynamic and inspiring conversation!
Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on Mixed and Mastered, we're talking to
Wardell Wodey-Molloy, a legendin the publishing industry who's
helped shape the careers ofChris Brown, trey Songz,
anderson, paak, a$ap, rocky andLucky Day, among others.
As a longtime executive at BMI,he's about discovering great
songwriting and supporting thenext generation.
(00:21):
His other passion is fashionphotography, which has landed
him in British Vogue and TimesSquare.
Let's get into it.
This is Mixed and Mastered withWardell Malloy.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,the podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
(00:45):
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
Okay, mixed and MasteredPodcast with my homie, the one
(01:08):
and only Wody.
I never call you that, I alwayscall you Wodo, but Wody Malloy,
you know it's all the same,wody.
Wardell.
I answer the vote.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'm good how you doing man, I'm good, I am
honored to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I'm honored you accepted the legendary Jeff
Slade.
No, we're going to get intoyour legendary, so let's start
it off.
You're from the Bronx, Bronx.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
New York.
Yeah, from the Bronx, 1750Sedgwick Avenue.
Oh, you're from Sedgwick.
I'm from Sedgwick, the home ofhip-hop.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I dated a girl at 1520.
Okay, in that building that'sright up the block.
Yeah, yeah, I didn't realize.
I never asked you what area yougrew up in.
I never knew what area.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, south Bronx, sedgwick Avenue.
So I grew up South Bronx, but Ialso spent a lot of my hello I
am missing.
Okay, goodness, something elsehappened with my screen.
I spent a lot of my youth inHarlem, grew up baptized
(02:18):
Abyssinian Baptist Church.
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, and Ispent.
I spent a lot of time in Harlemgrowing up.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So, yes, so tell me about growing up on Cedric
Avenue, the home of hip hop.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, growing up Cedric Avenue, you know that's
those.
That's where I discovered mylove for music.
You know my love for music, mylove for fashion.
My mom growing up she was avery stylish woman, loved
fashion and she made sure I wasdressed in all the finest things
(02:55):
.
So I remember that and thecountless albums my mother used
to have.
She used to have so many albums.
Music was always playing in thehouse and that's where I say I
formed my love for music andfashion.
(03:17):
You know, I remember a mom.
She loved Angie Bofield andMinnie Riperton and Phyllis
Hyman and Patty and LaBelle andLuther Vandross and just all
those so many names.
I have a little bit of an oldsoul, like a lot of my favorite
singers are not from my era.
There's always this thing about90s music, 90s R&B which is R
(03:43):
is r&b.
You know such an amazing time,but to me, like that, 70s r&b,
yeah, that's oh my gosh likeit's another level, like, and
what I love about that, thomas,because everybody showed up to
work, everybody showed up towork, everybody was exceptional,
everybody was exceptional,there was no you had to be, you
(04:06):
know.
So that is, I think, one of thebiggest memories I have growing
up on cedric avenue.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Just the music, the constant music that was playing
in the house now, did you, didyou, did you participate in the
black parties and stuff aroundthat time when hip hop was kind
of you know, blowing up,starting to blow up?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, um, yeah.
So my grandmother had a bighand in raising me and, uh, she
was a bit of a worrier, so I wasone of those kids that I
literally had to be in the houseby the time the lights came on
the street lights came on.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
The street lights came on.
Street lights came on.
Yeah, I had to ride my bike infront of the building.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
She'd be hanging out the window.
Don't go too far, don't go.
I couldn't go down to 1600 toplay with my cousins up the
block and stuff like that.
I couldn't do that.
I was a little bit sheltered inthat regard, my grandmother
definitely kept me sheltered.
That's cool so I mean, you knowwhen I could sneak out to a
(05:12):
party.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Here and there I would, but for the most part so,
um researching, I saw that um,you went to virginia state for a
little bit.
I did go to virginia.
So, how was that?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
You know, I wish that I had stuck it out honestly for
the experience, but I didn't.
Literally, I got there and thesharing of the bathroom, I was
just like, oh yeah, that I can'tdo.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Man, man and I remember my grandmother.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I'm definitely a grandma's baby and I was very
spoiled.
Very spoiled and a little bitsheltered, a little bit.
I called my grandmother.
I was like Grandma, they'remaking me share a bathroom.
Yeah, man, yeah.
And she was like oh, no, we gotto get you out of there.
We got to get you out of thereand I did one semester at
(06:03):
Virginia State and then I wentupstate New York and had a
proper apartment, my ownbathroom and all the things,
your own house.
But I do wish that I had stuckit out, though, honestly,
because there's nothing likethat experience, you know.
Yeah, yeah, and I remember thesemester that I was there.
(06:26):
There was just some amazingthings that I learned, some
amazing people that I'm actuallystill friends with now.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I just couldn't get past sharing the bathroom I
always tell people people arenasty people they got some nasty
home habits dude, when I, whenI went to morgan state State
same thing shared bathroom.
I'm stunned too because Ididn't know, but it was weird,
because it was crazy.
Okay, we had shared bathroomsand they had no doors on the
(06:54):
stalls, so you would literallywalk in, somebody may be taking
a shit and you'd be like yo,what up?
Joe?
It was crazy, but actually inhindsight it actually made our
dorm floor very close, becauseyou can't front on nobody if
they're asking you for toiletpaper.
Everybody got to be, but anyway, that's.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It ain't about me.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
It's not my thing, though it's not my thing.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It wasn't my thing.
It was no option.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
It wasn't my thing.
I'm OCD, I'm OCD.
It wasn't my thing.
It was no option, it wasn't mything.
Right, you know what I'm saying.
Right, right right.
So how did you end up at FIT so?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
FIT.
I was one of those people thatwent to a lot of different
colleges.
Okay, Just trying to figure outmy way because I knew that what
I was learning in school, itdidn't resonate with me.
I knew that whatever they wereteaching me wasn't going to be
my path.
I knew that.
I always knew I was a littledifferent.
(07:51):
I knew that I probably wasn'tgoing to have a regular job, you
know, like a regular nine tofive job Nine to five yeah, you
know.
And so I always thought that Iwould end up in fashion though,
although music was my life.
But I thought that I wanted tobe a stylist.
And I realized very quicklythat I had no desire to be a
(08:18):
stylist when I started workingat Source magazine.
So I went to Fashion Instituteof technology and I was a
merchandising major and at thesame time I was in class one day
and one of my classmates saidyou dress really, really nice.
You ever thought about styling?
And I said actually, you know?
Yeah, I actually have.
And she said well, I have afriend who works at source
(08:39):
magazine and she's looking forsomebody.
Would you be interested inmeeting with her?
I'm like, okay, sure.
And then I ended up being hiredat source um as a fashion
assistant, and yeah, that was agreat lesson.
I wouldn't take it back, but II realized that styling is so
much more than dressing peoplelike.
(09:00):
Number one is hard labor, it'shard labor they kind of trunk
clothes around and listen,listen and then so you have to,
you have to get the stuff, butthen managing this stuff during
the shoot is crazy, and thenreturning that stuff and then
lugging it back and forth, it'sjust.
(09:22):
I was like, oh yeah, this isn'tfor me and you know, really not
interested when anybody elsewears Toothy Toad.
So I was like you just likenice things, you just like
fashion, but you're not reallyinto just dressing people.
So I got out of that reallyreally quickly.
(09:42):
But my journey at FashionInstitute was great because it
landed me at the Source magazine.
Like I really contribute thatto me being at the Source, so it
was able for me to experiencethat and check it off that
bucket list.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Okay, it's not for me , so wait before we get into it.
I saw that you worked at theScratch Academy, so you DJ.
No, no, no, so I went to DJschool, scratch Academy.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I went to DJ school.
At this time I was a musicexecutive, I was at BMI, maybe
about 10 years at this, at thispoint, and it was one of those.
You know.
You know sometimes, as as acreative executive, you know
sometimes it's not so creative,right, and so you're being a
(10:38):
true, true creative person,because just because you are a
creative exec doesn't make you acreative absolutely.
That's another story.
But when you're really reallycreative.
sometimes it can be a little, um, challenging.
So I decided, okay, like I wantto find, I wanted to like just
(11:03):
get that love back for music.
And so I went to DJ school andit actually it really ignited,
uh, my, reignited my love formusic.
It just allowed me toexperience it in a different way
that I had been experiencing it.
So I love the experience ofScratch Academy I got my
(11:24):
certificate, I completed thecourse.
Andatch Academy I got mycertificate, I completed the
course and I was really goodactually.
You spent the time, you knowwhat.
So I actually purchased a DJset and it's in storage and I'm
debating like, ok, is thissomething that you really want
to do, or was it just somethingfor that moment, to just get
(11:46):
those juices flowing Again?
I mean, the reality is I don'twant to spend at the club or
anything like that.
Now.
I will spend at the opening ofa Cartier store or something
like that you know somethingvery chic and like that.
But no, I haven't, man, man, Ihaven't touched that stuff in
(12:08):
years, man, yeah, yeah, years,but it's still on my heart.
You know, I'm on the youtubelooking at different you know
different djs and how they'recreating and how they're getting
their art out there, and so I'mlike, okay, maybe I may revisit
that.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
We mess around one day.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, yeah, you never know.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So tell me how you became an A&R executive.
Was it universally your firstgig?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah, tell me the source.
And that didn't.
It just didn't feel good to meand I left the source.
And back then temp agencieswere a big thing Remember
(12:59):
Absolutely.
And I signed up with this tempagency and I had some
relationships at Universal and Iremember Tom Lewis.
Tom Lewis, he was this guy, hedid rock music, actually OK and
really cool guy, but reallyerratic and very, very quirky
(13:19):
and he needed an assistance.
I went to his office.
I said hey, tom, you know Ihear you looking for an
assistant.
You know he's like you know howto do expenses.
I was like, yeah, I didn't, butsure, and he's like you're
hired, you're hired.
And he hired me right on thespot.
(13:40):
And, um, tom lewis and TomLewis, I worked with Tom really
closely.
Tom and Laudalyn Donahowerworked closely with them.
And then our good friendAngelique Miles from Warner
(14:01):
Chapel.
She was a big deal over atWarner Chapel and so now she's
coming from publishing torecords and I remember Jocelyn
Cooper said you have two weeksto make Angelique happy or else
you're fired.
That's how it was.
You know the music industry wasreal cold back in the day.
Human resources won't let youdo stuff like that, no more.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
But back in the day it was it was not PC more.
But no, no, no, it was not pc.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
No, no, no so I, of course the pressure was on to
make sure that I made angeliquehappy within two weeks.
Luckily, I did okay.
Angelique is, as you know,still one of my closest, closest
, closest friends.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Angelique taught me so much.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Angelique taught me so, so much, not just about being a dope,
fly-ass music executive, but anice person while doing it.
A nice person Like Angeliquespoke to everybody.
She was nice to everybody.
(15:05):
She didn't have a chip on hershoulder and she could have.
You know, I know a lot ofexecutives that accomplished a
lot less than her that had chipson their shoulder.
So I always admired how peoplerespected her and how she showed
respect to other people, and Ijust learned so much from her,
so so much.
I remember she was a sticklerfor grammar and she taught me to
(15:29):
pay attention to how you write.
You know it speaks volumes, itspeaks volumes, and so that's
one of the things that has stuckwith me, as now I'm a senior
level exec.
That's one of the things that Ibecause I'm into mentorship,
that's what?
Because I think that the peoplein my, the people who came
(15:51):
before me, your generation, youguys did a horrible job in
mentorship, a horrible job inmentorship for the future
executives, and so I want togive back in that way for the
future executives, and so I wantto give back in that way, like
that's really, really importantto me raising up new executives
so that they know how to be, howto represent themselves, how to
(16:12):
show up in this world.
You know, because it's biggerthan just signing talent.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yes, my generation has been terrible with
mentorship.
We all got greedy and we alltried to keep it all for
ourselves and didn't pass it on,and I think that's one of the
reasons that the black musicbusiness is kind of in a weird
situation now, because we didn'tmentor.
So the the generations thatcame up under us, the ones that
(16:40):
cut through anyway, don't haveany.
I don't know, reverence is theright word, but they don't
really care because it's likeyou didn't really help me.
So now I'm doing my thing andI'm doing this and I'm doing
that and I'm working with mycrew and you guys are now the
old guys who didn't reach back.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So yeah, it's unfortunate, and so that's why,
for I, make it a habit to mentorGood Like even the junior
executives in our department.
I make sure to mentor thembecause it's important it is.
It's very important, it's veryimportant.
And it's something that I I mean, I thank God that I had mentors
(17:20):
, mm-hmm, but I'm speaking as awhole.
It's just something with thatgeneration happened, and you can
tell because, not for nothing,you guys even though you guys
didn't mentor, you guys werequality execs, though.
Yeah, you guys were qualityexecs, and now I'm just not
really sure what's happening.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
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Speaker 1 (18:18):
So who did you work with on the artist side when you
were working with angelique?
What artists were you guysworking with?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
so you know, universal was so interesting
back then.
There were a lot of artiststhat Angelique wanted to sign at
Universal.
That was, universal was thestart of that whole data
research and I remember, while Iwas working there, that was
something that Angelique and Iboth resented, because we didn't
(18:49):
want to sign people off of datawe wanted to sign people off of
.
You know, back then you go togo to a showcase, you see
somebody you love, you like yo,I want to sign them, I want to
nurture, I want to really groomthat talent, I want to develop
that talent.
That's, that's the excitingpart about the job.
The data thing, that was weird.
(19:09):
So you know we did.
I remember we worked on likethe cha-cha slide and I remember
fubu had a deal there.
We worked on yeah it.
Honestly, it was a bunch ofdeal there we worked on, yeah it
honestly, it was a bunch ofnames.
(19:30):
You probably wouldn't evenremember.
No problem or no.
It was interesting because thatI remember.
You remember when you wouldcall your friends at the other
labels like and you do the cdtrades and stuff like that.
I would never have anything togive anybody.
Universal we didn't really haveat that time.
It was a different universal.
I mean we had cash money thankgod for cash money and nelly,
(19:50):
because that's all the product Ihad to give and send to people
who put the messenger over a bigpackage yeah, but for trades.
But um, that was a reallychallenging time.
I will say the universal space.
And I remember laudelin sayingto me one day she's like you
know, nr is good, but you lovesongs.
(20:11):
Like I don't care who it's by,if the song is great, I love the
song.
So she told me about publishingand she's like maybe you should
look into publishing.
And which is how I gotintroduced to bmi, because the
bmi journey was only supposed tobe a two-year stint.
(20:34):
I was just like I'm just comingin to learn you know publishing,
and now, 23 years later, I'mstill there.
Yeah, um, you know, and that'sbeen a great, great journey.
But yeah, the Universal thing,I wouldn't trade it in, I
wouldn't trade it for anything,but I do wish that.
(20:56):
I kind of wish that I wasworking for Arista or something
like that.
I wish that yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Tell me about the BMI journey, universal's doing its
thing.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
now, monty did figure it out, monty.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Lipman figured it out .
We've murdered it now.
Yeah, in all genres.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yes, and Monty Lipman .
He was such a big supporter ofmine.
I remember when Angelique leftUniversal to go to EMI and know
back in the day, if your bossleft, chances are you were out
of there.
And there was a meeting, ameeting, and Monty Lipman said
we are not letting him go, we'regoing to create a job for him.
(21:37):
And that's what Monty did.
He created, he gave me apromotion, a&r manager.
You know, he created that forme and I got promoted.
And that's when I met VincentHerbert and we were working.
He had a girl group calledFamille.
We were working on that project.
So I met Makeba Riddick.
(21:59):
Makeba Riddick came.
She's like I got some songsthat I'd like to sing.
She didn't have anythingrecorded, nothing recorded.
She just wanted to sing hersongs at the demos, and she did,
and we were like yo, let's goand work with Famille.
And so that's how Vince and Ibecame cool and that's how me
and Makiba formed ourrelationship, which I ended up
(22:21):
signing her to BMI.
When I got to BMI, but likeabout six months into the Femil
project, I was told about theBMI position and although I knew
, you know, I always wanted tobe the best A&R guy, like that's
what I wanted.
Once I said, okay, this is whatI want to do.
(22:41):
I wanted to be like that A&Rguy, but Universal, just that
whole philosophy, just didn'twork for me, you know.
And so I went interviewed atBMI.
After five interviews I meanyou would have thought that I
was interviewing for a VPposition, of many interviews as
(23:02):
I went to but I had an interviewwith Charlie Feldman, who I
love dearly, and CatherineBruton, who is one of my best
friends.
And, yeah, after fiveinterviews I got hired.
And that was 2002, october 28th2002.
Wow, I'm still there.
You're still there.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, tell me some of the people you started off with
, like on the artist side, andsome of the people you signed
over there and you know, justtell me about the gig, because I
think, as vivian vivian scott,you on here and who started at
ascap, and I was telling herlike I think a lot of people
still don't really quiteunderstand publishing, you know-
no, no so people workingpublishing.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Don't even understand , because it's very complex.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
It's very, very complex, you know.
No, no, so people work inpublishing don't even understand
, because it's very complex it'svery, very complex.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
You know well, you know I work on the performance
right side of it and um, youknow I've been very, very
fortunate.
Bmi is one of those placeswhere they didn't pigeonhole me
into a certain genre.
You're able to sign, I can signcountry.
(24:12):
I can sign rock, I can.
You know, my forte is R&B, hiphop, gospel and pop.
But you know we're not, we'renot confined to a genre.
We're not confined to a genre.
But what?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I enjoyed about BMI and my time here is that we are
the last developers out there.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Like we develop.
I love the art of discovery,like that's my favorite favorite
thing.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Like by the time, an artist is big and people know
about them.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I'm like I'm off to something else, you else?
Yeah, I love the art ofdiscovery.
Some of the people that I'vesigned from Chris Brown.
I signed Chris Brown, he hadnothing out and Tina Davis
called me.
She's like I got this guy,you're going to love him, yada,
yada, yada.
And now he's the Chris Brown.
Same thing with Trey Songz.
(25:07):
You know, trey Songz, I love,love, love Trey Songz.
He's somebody very, very dearto my heart.
Signed him before anythinghappening.
You know, alex, the Kid, claudeKelly.
Claude Kelly was about.
He wanted to quit the musicindustry.
He's like I'm not getting anyplacements, yada, yada, yada.
I'm like just stick to what youknow, because, you know, jeff,
(25:34):
it feels like people come out ofnowhere, but it doesn't happen
like that.
That's not how it happens.
People are really beating thepavement for years and years.
Pavement for years and years.
Makeba Riddick man I rememberthis girl was in I felt like
every studio I went to she wasthere, like she would be hopping
(25:59):
from like three studios a night, just writing, beating the
pavement, beating the pavement,and you know.
Now she's a Grammy awardwinning.
You know songwriter who'swritten for so many people you
know.
Now she's a grammy awardwinning.
You know songwriter who'swritten for so many people you
know.
So I enjoy that seeing thatstory.
You know the lucky days of theworld.
I signed lucky day.
He was still d brown at thattime.
(26:21):
You know um, and now to see himthat's rewarding D Mile, d Mile
.
I signed D Mile back in 2012 orsomething like a long, long
time ago, a long time ago, and Imean he just started getting
his flowers when Maybe aboutthree, four years, about three
(26:42):
years ago, I think, probablywith the Silk Sonic albums.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
We, the silk Sonic albums were really air quotes
next level and obviously thenthe Victoria Monet and more
stuff he's done Bruno andAnderson Park and but yeah, but
he started to really get hisshine during silk Sonic, during
the pandemic, yeah, yeah, yeah,but he's, but he's been amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
He's been amazing but he.
He had to beat the pavement,but he didn't come out.
He didn't come from nowhere.
He.
He's been amazing, but he hadto beat the pavement, but he
didn't come from nowhere.
He's been around, you know.
So those are the stories I justlove to see.
I love to see and I love beingpart of things from the
beginning.
St John, another one.
You know I signed St John.
(27:22):
I actually know there are a lotof stories out there, but but
yeah, I got St John's firstpublishing deal, Really Like,
yes, I did, yeah, you know.
So those things are rewardingfor me.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
So you've worked with Janet Jackson as well.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So I've never worked with Janet Jackson.
We honor Janet Jackson.
Okay, so BMI, we do the R&Bhip-hop awards every year, so
Janet Jackson was an icon oneyear.
That was.
I'm not starstruck at all, butit's certain people.
When we honor Janet, yeah, youknow, that's Janet DeVita Joe.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Jackson, the one-name people.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
We honor Mariah there's a picture of me,
one-namer, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
There's a picture of me on Rollingstonescom, me
actually giving her her award,and she's just looking at me in
my eyes, and I'm like, wow, thisis a moment Because I love
Mariah Carey, of course, ofcourse.
Mariah is the moment because Ilove mariah carey, of course,
mariah carey um, the biggest, ofcourse is for me when we honor
(28:32):
patty lavelle.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
You know, that's my, that's my favorite.
All the time that's in yourmouth, that's my lady right
there, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
So we've had some amazing moments.
That is so rewarding to be ableto honor your favorites who
impacted you Like these peoplehave impacted me as a child.
You know we also do theTrailblazers of Gospel Music and
I've got to celebrate againsome of my childhood legends the
(29:02):
Clark sisters.
You know, twinkie Clark,twinkie clark, twinkie clark
crazy she, twinkie clark.
I have a car that she wrotewhere twinkie clark is thanking
me for encouraging her.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
It's this like what are you talking?
Speaker 2 (29:17):
about what?
Yes, like you're twinkie clark,like I'm always going to ride
with you, because she's thereason why these people are, the
reason why I hear the way thatI hear.
I can't sing, I can't sing, butI hear better than most singers
.
Yeah, I know when you're off.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah.
I know when you are.
Yeah, you know you're flat,you're not good, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
You're not good.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Tell me a little bit about working with Catherine
Bruton.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Catherine.
That's like we're like Batmanand Robin we were so.
We're so similar but sodifferent, you know which is?
Which, I think, is what makesour relationship work.
We both are loving gospel.
(30:17):
I think that was our.
What kind of brought ustogether.
I would love.
For gospel music she's a PK.
I've learned so much from her.
For gospel music she's a PK.
I've learned so much from her.
We don't always agree, but whatshe taught me is that we can
agree to disagree and we don'thave to fall out.
You can disagree and then go onand talk about something else.
(30:44):
She and I we'll have someheated, heated debates and
afterwards we will realize, okay, we just won't agree on this,
and then we'll find somethingelse to laugh about and then we
just keep it moving.
She has taught me a lot ofmaturity.
She's made me mature a lot, youknow.
And another one who has helpedme understand that being a great
(31:08):
executive is not just about whoyou sign that's only a small
part of it but how you show up.
She always tells me I need youto be more forward facing.
I'm one of those people that Ilike to stay in the back, like I
don't really do podcasts andpanels and do a whole bunch of
talking.
I'm not much of a talker, Ijust like to be creative.
(31:31):
That's what I like to do, andso she pushes me.
She pushes me not to be in mycomfort zone.
She pushes me because she seessomething that you know a lot of
times we are who we are,something that you know a lot.
A lot of times we are who weare, so we don't see really the
the, the greatness that that wehold, and so I'm so grateful for
(31:54):
her because she pushes me.
She doesn't.
You know a lot of people.
They will be comfortable and,and you know a lot of, a lot of
people don't really like to seethe people who come after them
succeed.
They're really trying to keepeverything for themselves and
(32:15):
make sure that their space issolidified.
But she's not in competitionwith anybody.
Yeah, but herself.
I think I got you, but yeah,she's not.
She's not that girl.
So I really, really enjoyworking with her.
She's extremely funny.
People don't know she's very,very, very funny.
(32:36):
So we clown a lot.
So, yeah, our relationship isamazing.
I enjoy the dynamic.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
So give me I don't know, I don't even really like
this question, but I'm askingyou anyway.
Give me, like your I don't knowif typical, there's no typical
but give me a day-to-day andlike, I want you to kind of
explain to the people like whatBMI is and what you do.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
BMI is a performance rights organization, so we pay
royalties when your music ispublicly performed.
Pay royalties when your musicis publicly performed.
My job is to bring in talent.
You know, keep the market sharenice and where it is.
So we bring in talent, but wealso nurture talent.
Um, you know, we've kind of allthings to our writers and every
(33:20):
writer has different needs.
So we at BMI Frances Prestonshe was president when I first
got to BMI, and then it was DaleBryan and now Mike O'Neill.
Frances Preston she really,really embedded in the culture
of BMI that it is about thesongwriter, the songwriter and
(33:42):
the song first, and I will saythat BMI has done an amazing job
at keeping the songwriter first.
So some days it's a lot ofmeetings.
A lot of meetings, because thelevel, the amount of people that
we have to cater to, it's a lot, you know.
So a lot of meetings.
(34:04):
Some of it is is connecting thedots.
Ok, whether it's it's I need amanager, or can you get this
song to such and such, orcollaborations, a lot of people
looking to collaborate withdifferent artists.
It's also managing the staffthat comes under you.
(34:25):
So it's no typical day, honestly, which is what I do enjoy.
Sometimes, though, it's alittle stressful, because I do
like structure and it's not astructured job at all.
It's not your day on Monday isgoing to be different than
Tuesday and Wednesday.
You know there's a lot ofmoving parts to it and, on top
(34:46):
of top of bringing talent,nurturing talent building on
relationships, we also do awardshows.
We have award shows in all ofour departments, from R&B, hip
hop, gospel, pop, latin andLondon I hope I'm not forgetting
(35:08):
anything Country as well.
So our job is to we have tocreate these events from the
bottom up, like event planners.
So the job is not a cookiecutter, one size fits all.
We wear a lot of different hatswith this job, a lot of
(35:29):
different hats.
Okay, so it keeps you on yourtoes, but it can be very, very
stressful.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I'm sure.
So tell me about this.
Um, photography, photographybug you've caught and honestly
caught on your head before, butyour photography, I guess
journey and you're like you'rereally, really doing this now.
It's not like I'm just playingaround taking pictures of birds
and shit, like doing, you know,fashion shoots and like you
(36:00):
really tell me about it.
Tell me about it yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
So you know.
Well, number one most peopledon't know I was a graphic
design major in college.
Ok, I draw, and it wassomething that my mom kind of
pushed, you know like, don't,don't waste your talent, you
know you draw.
Yeah, so I was a graphic designmajor but I knew, like I said,
(36:23):
I was going to work in eitherfashion or music.
I just knew it.
And so I kind of once I gotinto music, I just went full
force there and didn't look backand I would say, maybe like in
17, I was gifted a book.
Cj got me a book about menswearillustration.
(36:45):
Okay, I was like, why didn'tyou give me this book?
But I started reading it andthen I started drawing again and
really having fun with thedrawing.
And then a friend of mine he'sa producer and musical director,
joe wilson.
I was at his house one day.
He said um, I see yourportraits.
Have you ever thought abouttaking portraits with a camera
(37:06):
and then drawing your portraits?
And I was like, no, I neverthought about that.
And he said well, I have acamera.
You know, I'm not using itbecause I just have another one.
I just purchased another one,so I'll give it to you.
And he gave it to me and taughtme a few things.
And then Day Howerton, who is aproducer, but he's, he was an
(37:28):
aspiring producer.
I didn't know he was aphotographer at the time, though
.
Ok, ok, he became my mentor andhe just taught me.
Day Howerton in YouTube, taughtme everything I know.
And, ironically enough, though,it came full circle, because I
used to take photography classesas a graphic design major and
back in the day, I would spendhours looking through images and
(37:51):
fashion ads and stuff like that, because I've always loved an
image, a beautiful image.
And so, yeah, I just startedshooting, and now I've had book
covers, I've had threebillboards, two in New York.
I've had two billboards in NewYork.
Who?
Speaker 1 (38:09):
were the billboards for.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
One was for Bevy Smith's book.
I shot the cover of her NewYork Times bestselling book, her
New York Times bestselling book, and that billboard was on 34th
Street.
And then the second one wasElijah Blake.
Okay, he had a billboard inTimes Square and I didn't get to
(38:31):
see the Bevy Smith one, but Idid get to go visit the
billboard in Times Square.
Man, that was man.
You talk about a surreal moment, man, to see your creation up
in lights in your city, yeah, inyour city.
(38:51):
Like I mean, you can't tell medreams don't come true.
True, it's true.
You can't tell me dreams don'tcome true.
True, it's true.
You can't tell me dreams don'tcome true.
I will say that my life looks,except for some personal stuff,
career-wise, my life looks how Iplanned it, manifested it.
(39:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's so weird, but wordsreally do have power.
Your thoughts have power.
Yeah, bevy smith always saysthat to me.
She's.
She's part of the reason I giveher so much credit for why I
think the way I do now, becausea lot of times we've had, you
(39:36):
know, you got to deprogramyourself from what you've
learned as a kid because a lotof, a lot of times we've had,
you know, you got to deprogramyourself from what you've
learned as a kid because a lotof, a lot of times yours the
stuff that you your stuff andwhat you think you like and
don't like a lot of times that'syour parents stuff, absolutely
that's your parents stuff.
Yeah, it's not your stuff soit's not your stuff, and so I've
.
I've spent years deprogramminga lot of what I've learned and
(40:01):
now trying to shift to themindset that I want what I want,
how I see myself, how I'mgrateful for my photography
journey because it's justallowing me to stay creative.
It's just I like using my handsin that creative space.
(40:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, so OK, and now what I'm going to do one day.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I listen whenever you ready.
I'm now focusing on actuallyselling some of my prints.
So I'm building out my onlinestore so I can sell some of my
prints.
So I'm building out my onlinestore so I can sell some of my
prints and actually get my stuffprinted so I can actually see
it in my house.
I don't really print my stuff.
A lot of times, you know, youjust see it, you send it to the
(40:52):
person digitally and that's it.
But there's something aboutactually feeling it.
It just it makes a difference.
That's dope man.
But there's something aboutactually feeling it.
It just it makes.
It makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
That's dope man.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, what's next.
Yeah, you know what's next.
That's a loaded questionthere's so much that I want to
do, jeff man, there's so much,of course you know.
I want to continue to toflourish in the music game and
(41:29):
continue to grow and be the bestexecutive that I can be and
continue to continue my art ofdiscovery.
As far as photography, like yousaid I did.
I did make a British Vogue.
I actually was in Vogue twice.
That's incredible.
I was in Vogue twice actually.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Wow, that's incredible.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, so more of that like fashion.
I want to do fashion spreadsand all those things and people
have talked to me about actuallylike some kind of fashion, and
you know I love fashion.
I don't know, I just have tofigure out what that is, what
that looks like for me.
(41:59):
Maybe I design.
I do have an idea about usingmy photography in some way with
fashion, and there's alsothere's a series of coffee table
books that I want to do toreally help the black community
heal.
Yeah.
(42:20):
Yeah, I want to do that withpictures and create
conversations, because that'show we heal when we have
conversations.
Communication Don't be afraidof the difficult conversations,
because that's when thebreakthrough happens.
On the difficult conversations.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
I agree, 200,.
But everybody.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
You know everybody's, don't.
You don't want to talk tosomebody who don't think like
you, or whatever, then you'regoing to be talking to the same
it's no learning, it's nolearning.
Nobody's at the chamber.
That's it.
That's it.
So you know, I really thosecoffee table books.
They've been on my heart forquite quite some time, so I
(43:02):
really want to figure out howthat works.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I need about four more of me, and you want to
mention no names and incriminatenobody, give me one.
I say crazy, but I don't likethe word crazy.
Give me one spicy story in themusic business, something you've
seen, a crazy story aboutsigning somebody.
(43:28):
Well, first of all, before that, even tell me.
Tell me somebody you wanted tosign that you weren't able to,
for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I'm so bad at these questions because now I can't
think of one person.
I can't think of one person,somebody that I wanted to sign,
that I couldn't.
I pretty much I can't think ofanybody that I wanted to sign
that I didn't sign.
Okay, that's fair.
You know, when I first got tobe a mom man, I was signing
(43:56):
everybody, man, I was goingcrazy on them, I was going crazy
on them, yeah, yeah.
So I don't know, I don't thinkthere's anybody that I wanted to
sign that I haven't.
Okay okay.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Well, give me a crazy , a spicy story.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I can't think of one story, good or bad.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
A spicy story.
All right, you know we're goingto get back to it.
I don't know what you'rethinking about.
We're going to get back to it.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, a spicy story.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Give me your.
You already told me yourfavorite artist, so we're going
to get there.
Give me one or two of yourfavorite.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
So Patti LaBelle is my favorite female artist Of all
time.
Of all time, luther of all time.
Okay, luther vandross wouldhave to be my favorite male
artist.
Great choices, luther vandross,just the?
The remember the first time Iheard him, his tone and the
background singers I was likewhat?
And I was in the back seat.
(44:54):
My mom, uh, used to take meshopping every Saturday.
We used to go to Short HillsMall and Garden State Mall in
Jersey.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, in Jersey and.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
I remember she went to Sam Goody and got Luther
Vandross' Busy Body, wow.
And when that first came on Iwanted your love and I was like
it was the background singersand I was young at this time so
I didn't know what I I waslistening for, but I knew it was
just so pleasing to my ear.
Yeah, it was so pleasing to myear.
(45:24):
So I was obsessed with luthersince that very, very, very day,
very day.
It's just he changed.
He changed my game.
And patty I saw patty on a TVspecial at like seven years old
and I'd never heard of herbefore.
And I mean, you know, pattyused to be on 10.
Every time she performed shewas on me, and so I was young.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
So I didn't know whether to be off.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I mean, I was like what's happening?
I didn't know whether to beafraid or what, but I knew I was
obsessed with her.
I was obsessed with her fromthat time.
I was just like who is this?
And how does she sing like thisand cut up like this?
I just never seen anybody cutup like that, like it.
Just, you know my favoritewriters.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Give me one or two.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
You know, a friend of mine we were talking the other
day said I just think StevieWonder, he might be the greatest
of all time.
Okay, he might be the greatestof all time.
Yeah, he's absolute, heBabyface.
Listen, contrary to popularbelief, r Kelly, I mean listen.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I argue about him all the time.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Listen, here's the deal.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I'm not condoning what he's doing, I'm not
condoning anything, but we'renot talking music.
Come on B.
What are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah, music-wise, I mean, he's his pen game, his
vocal game, you know, and again,I ain't condoning nothing yeah,
I'm not saying nothing to meabout it separate thing except
for thing, except for thing,although I do believe you can't
separate the art from the artistI do believe you cannot.
(47:16):
But I can't take away what he'salready done, yeah, what he's
already contributed musically.
I can't erase that, yeah, youknow.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Yeah, who's your favorite photographer?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Robert Mapplethorpe and Gordon Parks Good choices.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good choice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good choices.
They both.
You know, gordon, what I lovedabout Gordon Parks is he touched
on so many different types ofphotography, right, oh, mariah
(47:51):
Carey, definitely one of myfavorite songwriters.
Okay, mariah Carey, definitelyone of my favorite songwriters.
Yes, yes, okay, mariah mariahcarey, definitely one of my
favorite songwriters.
Yes, yes, um, what I like aboutgordon parks is that he, he
touched, he did different typesof photography.
He wasn't just a portraitphotographer or just a fashion
photographer or just adocumentary photographer.
(48:11):
He did it all, um, and he didit all very, very well.
And that's what I want to do,Like, I don't want to be
pigeonholed into like just aportrait photographer.
You know, I want to shootfashion, I want to shoot all
things beautiful.
I'm not into landscape andstuff like that, I'm into people
.
I like when people look at aphoto that I shot and they're
(48:34):
like, wow, you know, I can'tbelieve that's me.
And I'm like, yeah, that's you,because there's beauty in all
of us and I just like showingpeople the beauty in themselves.
So that for sure.
And Robert Mapplethorpe, he'sjust risque and I like risque.
Yeah, he was very risque.
(48:55):
He was very risque.
I mean, you know, he was risquewhen it wasn't even.
I mean now, that kind of stuffis normal.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
You know we see it all the time, but it was not
cool.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
He literally was a trendsetter and a trailblazer
for sure, absolutely, absolutelyyeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
My last question, my last question before we wrap it
up.
This is for you for hometown,favorite place in the Bronx or,
you know what, harlem.
I'll give you either area tochoose from.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
I'm so bad with these questions, jeff, favorite place
.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
It could be anything it could be a food spot, it
could be a park, it could beyour grandmother's house,
whatever, whatever.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
So I will say I'm glad you said that I would say
my favorite place in the Bronxwould be 1750 Sedgwick Avenue,
just whenever I ride past thebuilding, because my grandmother
was and still is my absolutefavorite person in the world and
my hero, you know.
(49:56):
So, yeah, so something.
We were on the first floor, 1p,and when I drive past on the
highway and I see it it always,I always get goosebumps because
I remember her.
You know, she'd sit on aterrace every day, absolutely,
yeah, so watching the peoplewatching the people, watching
the people.
(50:16):
Yeah, and in harlem I would saygoing back to my grandmother
there was this corner store likeI said I used to go to.
I was a member in theabyssinian baptist church.
I got baptized there and everysunday my grandmother would take
me to the corner store and weget peppermints and luden's
cherry cough drops and I wouldneed those two things in order
(50:42):
to sit and be quiet in church.
Do they still make Luden's?
Do they still make those?
I haven't seen them in years,but remember the cherry I mean
they was good, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
That's classic material the cherry and the
honey ones, the honey ones yeahit.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Honey ones yeah, it was candy, but I remember every
Sunday she would get her pay andthen afterwards, after church,
she'd get her daily newspaper.
Yeah yeah.
I don't know if that'snecessarily my favorite, but
it's my most memorable.
I got you Because it's just mychildhood.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, and I got you and my grandma?
Yeah, of course it's beautifulman.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Man, this is good Like.
I said, I normally say no tothese things because I'm not
much of a talker, but how couldI say no to my good friend, the
legendary Jeffery Slade?
We got history, man.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
You've seen me grow up.
You've seen me grow up.
You've seen me grow up, shityou know, yeah, but thank you,
man.
I really appreciate it, man,thank you.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
You can catch Mixed and Mastered on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend I'm
your host, jeffrey Sledge.
Mixed and Mastered is producedand distributed by Merrick
Studios.
This week on Mixed and Mastered, we're talking to
Wardell Wodey-Molloy, a legendin the publishing industry who's
helped shape the careers ofChris Brown, trey Songz,
anderson, paak, a$ap, rocky andLucky Day, among others.
As a longtime executive at BMI,he's about discovering great
songwriting and supporting thenext generation.
(00:21):
His other passion is fashionphotography, which has landed
him in British Vogue and TimesSquare.
Let's get into it.
This is Mixed and Mastered withWardell Malloy.
Welcome to Mixed and Mastered,the podcast where the stories of
the music industry come to life.
I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringingyou real conversations with the
(00:45):
people who have shaped the soundof music.
We're pulling back the curtainon what it takes to make it in
the music business.
These are the stories you won'thear anywhere else, told by the
people who live them.
This is Mixed and Mastered.
Okay, mixed and MasteredPodcast with my homie, the one
(01:08):
and only Wody.
I never call you that, I alwayscall you Wodo, but Wody Malloy,
you know it's all the same,wody.
Wardell.
I answer the vote.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'm good how you doing man, I'm good, I am
honored to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I'm honored you accepted the legendary Jeff
Slade.
No, we're going to get intoyour legendary, so let's start
it off.
You're from the Bronx, Bronx.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
New York.
Yeah, from the Bronx, 1750Sedgwick Avenue.
Oh, you're from Sedgwick.
I'm from Sedgwick, the home ofhip-hop.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I dated a girl at 1520.
Okay, in that building that'sright up the block.
Yeah, yeah, I didn't realize.
I never asked you what area yougrew up in.
I never knew what area.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, south Bronx, sedgwick Avenue.
So I grew up South Bronx, but Ialso spent a lot of my hello I
am missing.
Okay, goodness, something elsehappened with my screen.
I spent a lot of my youth inHarlem, grew up baptized
(02:18):
Abyssinian Baptist Church.
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, and Ispent.
I spent a lot of time in Harlemgrowing up.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So, yes, so tell me about growing up on Cedric
Avenue, the home of hip hop.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, growing up Cedric Avenue, you know that's
those.
That's where I discovered mylove for music.
You know my love for music, mylove for fashion.
My mom growing up she was avery stylish woman, loved
fashion and she made sure I wasdressed in all the finest things
(02:55):
.
So I remember that and thecountless albums my mother used
to have.
She used to have so many albums.
Music was always playing in thehouse and that's where I say I
formed my love for music andfashion.
(03:17):
You know, I remember a mom.
She loved Angie Bofield andMinnie Riperton and Phyllis
Hyman and Patty and LaBelle andLuther Vandross and just all
those so many names.
I have a little bit of an oldsoul, like a lot of my favorite
singers are not from my era.
There's always this thing about90s music, 90s R&B which is R
(03:43):
is r&b.
You know such an amazing time,but to me, like that, 70s r&b,
yeah, that's oh my gosh likeit's another level, like, and
what I love about that, thomas,because everybody showed up to
work, everybody showed up towork, everybody was exceptional,
everybody was exceptional,there was no you had to be, you
(04:06):
know.
So that is, I think, one of thebiggest memories I have growing
up on cedric avenue.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Just the music, the constant music that was playing
in the house now, did you, didyou, did you participate in the
black parties and stuff aroundthat time when hip hop was kind
of you know, blowing up,starting to blow up?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, um, yeah.
So my grandmother had a bighand in raising me and, uh, she
was a bit of a worrier, so I wasone of those kids that I
literally had to be in the houseby the time the lights came on
the street lights came on.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
The street lights came on.
Street lights came on.
Yeah, I had to ride my bike infront of the building.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
She'd be hanging out the window.
Don't go too far, don't go.
I couldn't go down to 1600 toplay with my cousins up the
block and stuff like that.
I couldn't do that.
I was a little bit sheltered inthat regard, my grandmother
definitely kept me sheltered.
That's cool so I mean, you knowwhen I could sneak out to a
(05:12):
party.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Here and there I would, but for the most part so,
um researching, I saw that um,you went to virginia state for a
little bit.
I did go to virginia.
So, how was that?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
You know, I wish that I had stuck it out honestly for
the experience, but I didn't.
Literally, I got there and thesharing of the bathroom, I was
just like, oh yeah, that I can'tdo.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Man, man and I remember my grandmother.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I'm definitely a grandma's baby and I was very
spoiled.
Very spoiled and a little bitsheltered, a little bit.
I called my grandmother.
I was like Grandma, they'remaking me share a bathroom.
Yeah, man, yeah.
And she was like oh, no, we gotto get you out of there.
We got to get you out of thereand I did one semester at
(06:03):
Virginia State and then I wentupstate New York and had a
proper apartment, my ownbathroom and all the things,
your own house.
But I do wish that I had stuckit out, though, honestly,
because there's nothing likethat experience, you know.
Yeah, yeah, and I remember thesemester that I was there.
(06:26):
There was just some amazingthings that I learned, some
amazing people that I'm actuallystill friends with now.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I just couldn't get past sharing the bathroom I
always tell people people arenasty people they got some nasty
home habits dude, when I, whenI went to morgan state State
same thing shared bathroom.
I'm stunned too because Ididn't know, but it was weird,
because it was crazy.
Okay, we had shared bathroomsand they had no doors on the
(06:54):
stalls, so you would literallywalk in, somebody may be taking
a shit and you'd be like yo,what up?
Joe?
It was crazy, but actually inhindsight it actually made our
dorm floor very close, becauseyou can't front on nobody if
they're asking you for toiletpaper.
Everybody got to be, but anyway, that's.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It ain't about me.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
It's not my thing, though it's not my thing.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It wasn't my thing.
It was no option.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
It wasn't my thing.
I'm OCD, I'm OCD.
It wasn't my thing.
It was no option, it wasn't mything.
Right, you know what I'm saying.
Right, right right.
So how did you end up at FIT so?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
FIT.
I was one of those people thatwent to a lot of different
colleges.
Okay, Just trying to figure outmy way because I knew that what
I was learning in school, itdidn't resonate with me.
I knew that whatever they wereteaching me wasn't going to be
my path.
I knew that.
I always knew I was a littledifferent.
(07:51):
I knew that I probably wasn'tgoing to have a regular job, you
know, like a regular nine tofive job Nine to five yeah, you
know.
And so I always thought that Iwould end up in fashion though,
although music was my life.
But I thought that I wanted tobe a stylist.
And I realized very quicklythat I had no desire to be a
(08:18):
stylist when I started workingat Source magazine.
So I went to Fashion Instituteof technology and I was a
merchandising major and at thesame time I was in class one day
and one of my classmates saidyou dress really, really nice.
You ever thought about styling?
And I said actually, you know?
Yeah, I actually have.
And she said well, I have afriend who works at source
(08:39):
magazine and she's looking forsomebody.
Would you be interested inmeeting with her?
I'm like, okay, sure.
And then I ended up being hiredat source um as a fashion
assistant, and yeah, that was agreat lesson.
I wouldn't take it back, but II realized that styling is so
much more than dressing peoplelike.
(09:00):
Number one is hard labor, it'shard labor they kind of trunk
clothes around and listen,listen and then so you have to,
you have to get the stuff, butthen managing this stuff during
the shoot is crazy, and thenreturning that stuff and then
lugging it back and forth, it'sjust.
(09:22):
I was like, oh yeah, this isn'tfor me and you know, really not
interested when anybody elsewears Toothy Toad.
So I was like you just likenice things, you just like
fashion, but you're not reallyinto just dressing people.
So I got out of that reallyreally quickly.
(09:42):
But my journey at FashionInstitute was great because it
landed me at the Source magazine.
Like I really contribute thatto me being at the Source, so it
was able for me to experiencethat and check it off that
bucket list.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Okay, it's not for me , so wait before we get into it.
I saw that you worked at theScratch Academy, so you DJ.
No, no, no, so I went to DJschool, scratch Academy.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I went to DJ school.
At this time I was a musicexecutive, I was at BMI, maybe
about 10 years at this, at thispoint, and it was one of those.
You know.
You know sometimes, as as acreative executive, you know
sometimes it's not so creative,right, and so you're being a
(10:38):
true, true creative person,because just because you are a
creative exec doesn't make you acreative absolutely.
That's another story.
But when you're really reallycreative.
sometimes it can be a little, um, challenging.
So I decided, okay, like I wantto find, I wanted to like just
(11:03):
get that love back for music.
And so I went to DJ school andit actually it really ignited,
uh, my, reignited my love formusic.
It just allowed me toexperience it in a different way
that I had been experiencing it.
So I love the experience ofScratch Academy I got my
(11:24):
certificate, I completed thecourse.
Andatch Academy I got mycertificate, I completed the
course and I was really goodactually.
You spent the time, you knowwhat.
So I actually purchased a DJset and it's in storage and I'm
debating like, ok, is thissomething that you really want
to do, or was it just somethingfor that moment, to just get
(11:46):
those juices flowing Again?
I mean, the reality is I don'twant to spend at the club or
anything like that.
Now.
I will spend at the opening ofa Cartier store or something
like that you know somethingvery chic and like that.
But no, I haven't, man, man, Ihaven't touched that stuff in
(12:08):
years, man, yeah, yeah, years,but it's still on my heart.
You know, I'm on the youtubelooking at different you know
different djs and how they'recreating and how they're getting
their art out there, and so I'mlike, okay, maybe I may revisit
that.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
We mess around one day.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, yeah, you never know.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So tell me how you became an A&R executive.
Was it universally your firstgig?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah, tell me the source.
And that didn't.
It just didn't feel good to meand I left the source.
And back then temp agencieswere a big thing Remember
(12:59):
Absolutely.
And I signed up with this tempagency and I had some
relationships at Universal and Iremember Tom Lewis.
Tom Lewis, he was this guy, hedid rock music, actually OK and
really cool guy, but reallyerratic and very, very quirky
(13:19):
and he needed an assistance.
I went to his office.
I said hey, tom, you know Ihear you looking for an
assistant.
You know he's like you know howto do expenses.
I was like, yeah, I didn't, butsure, and he's like you're
hired, you're hired.
And he hired me right on thespot.
(13:40):
And, um, tom lewis and TomLewis, I worked with Tom really
closely.
Tom and Laudalyn Donahowerworked closely with them.
And then our good friendAngelique Miles from Warner
(14:01):
Chapel.
She was a big deal over atWarner Chapel and so now she's
coming from publishing torecords and I remember Jocelyn
Cooper said you have two weeksto make Angelique happy or else
you're fired.
That's how it was.
You know the music industry wasreal cold back in the day.
Human resources won't let youdo stuff like that, no more.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
But back in the day it was it was not PC more.
But no, no, no, it was not pc.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
No, no, no so I, of course the pressure was on to
make sure that I made angeliquehappy within two weeks.
Luckily, I did okay.
Angelique is, as you know,still one of my closest, closest
, closest friends.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Angelique taught me so much.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Angelique taught me so, so much, not just about being a dope,
fly-ass music executive, but anice person while doing it.
A nice person Like Angeliquespoke to everybody.
She was nice to everybody.
(15:05):
She didn't have a chip on hershoulder and she could have.
You know, I know a lot ofexecutives that accomplished a
lot less than her that had chipson their shoulder.
So I always admired how peoplerespected her and how she showed
respect to other people, and Ijust learned so much from her,
so so much.
I remember she was a sticklerfor grammar and she taught me to
(15:29):
pay attention to how you write.
You know it speaks volumes, itspeaks volumes, and so that's
one of the things that has stuckwith me, as now I'm a senior
level exec.
That's one of the things that Ibecause I'm into mentorship,
that's what?
Because I think that the peoplein my, the people who came
(15:51):
before me, your generation, youguys did a horrible job in
mentorship, a horrible job inmentorship for the future
executives, and so I want togive back in that way for the
future executives, and so I wantto give back in that way, like
that's really, really importantto me raising up new executives
so that they know how to be, howto represent themselves, how to
(16:12):
show up in this world.
You know, because it's biggerthan just signing talent.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yes, my generation has been terrible with
mentorship.
We all got greedy and we alltried to keep it all for
ourselves and didn't pass it on,and I think that's one of the
reasons that the black musicbusiness is kind of in a weird
situation now, because we didn'tmentor.
So the the generations thatcame up under us, the ones that
(16:40):
cut through anyway, don't haveany.
I don't know, reverence is theright word, but they don't
really care because it's likeyou didn't really help me.
So now I'm doing my thing andI'm doing this and I'm doing
that and I'm working with mycrew and you guys are now the
old guys who didn't reach back.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So yeah, it's unfortunate, and so that's why,
for I, make it a habit to mentorGood Like even the junior
executives in our department.
I make sure to mentor thembecause it's important it is.
It's very important, it's veryimportant.
And it's something that I I mean, I thank God that I had mentors
(17:20):
, mm-hmm, but I'm speaking as awhole.
It's just something with thatgeneration happened, and you can
tell because, not for nothing,you guys even though you guys
didn't mentor, you guys werequality execs, though.
Yeah, you guys were qualityexecs, and now I'm just not
really sure what's happening.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
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Speaker 1 (18:18):
So who did you work with on the artist side when you
were working with angelique?
What artists were you guysworking with?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
so you know, universal was so interesting
back then.
There were a lot of artiststhat Angelique wanted to sign at
Universal.
That was, universal was thestart of that whole data
research and I remember, while Iwas working there, that was
something that Angelique and Iboth resented, because we didn't
(18:49):
want to sign people off of datawe wanted to sign people off of
.
You know, back then you go togo to a showcase, you see
somebody you love, you like yo,I want to sign them, I want to
nurture, I want to really groomthat talent, I want to develop
that talent.
That's, that's the excitingpart about the job.
The data thing, that was weird.
(19:09):
So you know we did.
I remember we worked on likethe cha-cha slide and I remember
fubu had a deal there.
We worked on yeah it.
Honestly, it was a bunch ofdeal there we worked on, yeah it
honestly, it was a bunch ofnames.
(19:30):
You probably wouldn't evenremember.
No problem or no.
It was interesting because thatI remember.
You remember when you wouldcall your friends at the other
labels like and you do the cdtrades and stuff like that.
I would never have anything togive anybody.
Universal we didn't really haveat that time.
It was a different universal.
I mean we had cash money thankgod for cash money and nelly,
(19:50):
because that's all the product Ihad to give and send to people
who put the messenger over a bigpackage yeah, but for trades.
But um, that was a reallychallenging time.
I will say the universal space.
And I remember laudelin sayingto me one day she's like you
know, nr is good, but you lovesongs.
(20:11):
Like I don't care who it's by,if the song is great, I love the
song.
So she told me about publishingand she's like maybe you should
look into publishing.
And which is how I gotintroduced to bmi, because the
bmi journey was only supposed tobe a two-year stint.
(20:34):
I was just like I'm just comingin to learn you know publishing,
and now, 23 years later, I'mstill there.
Yeah, um, you know, and that'sbeen a great, great journey.
But yeah, the Universal thing,I wouldn't trade it in, I
wouldn't trade it for anything,but I do wish that.
(20:56):
I kind of wish that I wasworking for Arista or something
like that.
I wish that yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Tell me about the BMI journey, universal's doing its
thing.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
now, monty did figure it out, monty.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Lipman figured it out .
We've murdered it now.
Yeah, in all genres.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yes, and Monty Lipman .
He was such a big supporter ofmine.
I remember when Angelique leftUniversal to go to EMI and know
back in the day, if your bossleft, chances are you were out
of there.
And there was a meeting, ameeting, and Monty Lipman said
we are not letting him go, we'regoing to create a job for him.
(21:37):
And that's what Monty did.
He created, he gave me apromotion, a&r manager.
You know, he created that forme and I got promoted.
And that's when I met VincentHerbert and we were working.
He had a girl group calledFamille.
We were working on that project.
So I met Makeba Riddick.
(21:59):
Makeba Riddick came.
She's like I got some songsthat I'd like to sing.
She didn't have anythingrecorded, nothing recorded.
She just wanted to sing hersongs at the demos, and she did,
and we were like yo, let's goand work with Famille.
And so that's how Vince and Ibecame cool and that's how me
and Makiba formed ourrelationship, which I ended up
(22:21):
signing her to BMI.
When I got to BMI, but likeabout six months into the Femil
project, I was told about theBMI position and although I knew
, you know, I always wanted tobe the best A&R guy, like that's
what I wanted.
Once I said, okay, this is whatI want to do.
(22:41):
I wanted to be like that A&Rguy, but Universal, just that
whole philosophy, just didn'twork for me, you know.
And so I went interviewed atBMI.
After five interviews I meanyou would have thought that I
was interviewing for a VPposition, of many interviews as
(23:02):
I went to but I had an interviewwith Charlie Feldman, who I
love dearly, and CatherineBruton, who is one of my best
friends.
And, yeah, after fiveinterviews I got hired.
And that was 2002, october 28th2002.
Wow, I'm still there.
You're still there.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, tell me some of the people you started off with
, like on the artist side, andsome of the people you signed
over there and you know, justtell me about the gig, because I
think, as vivian vivian scott,you on here and who started at
ascap, and I was telling herlike I think a lot of people
still don't really quiteunderstand publishing, you know-
no, no so people workingpublishing.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Don't even understand , because it's very complex.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
It's very, very complex, you know.
No, no, so people work inpublishing don't even understand
, because it's very complex it'svery, very complex.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
You know well, you know I work on the performance
right side of it and um, youknow I've been very, very
fortunate.
Bmi is one of those placeswhere they didn't pigeonhole me
into a certain genre.
You're able to sign, I can signcountry.
(24:12):
I can sign rock, I can.
You know, my forte is R&B, hiphop, gospel and pop.
But you know we're not, we'renot confined to a genre.
We're not confined to a genre.
But what?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I enjoyed about BMI and my time here is that we are
the last developers out there.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Like we develop.
I love the art of discovery,like that's my favorite favorite
thing.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Like by the time, an artist is big and people know
about them.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I'm like I'm off to something else, you else?
Yeah, I love the art ofdiscovery.
Some of the people that I'vesigned from Chris Brown.
I signed Chris Brown, he hadnothing out and Tina Davis
called me.
She's like I got this guy,you're going to love him, yada,
yada, yada.
And now he's the Chris Brown.
Same thing with Trey Songz.
(25:07):
You know, trey Songz, I love,love, love Trey Songz.
He's somebody very, very dearto my heart.
Signed him before anythinghappening.
You know, alex, the Kid, claudeKelly.
Claude Kelly was about.
He wanted to quit the musicindustry.
He's like I'm not getting anyplacements, yada, yada, yada.
I'm like just stick to what youknow, because, you know, jeff,
(25:34):
it feels like people come out ofnowhere, but it doesn't happen
like that.
That's not how it happens.
People are really beating thepavement for years and years.
Pavement for years and years.
Makeba Riddick man I rememberthis girl was in I felt like
every studio I went to she wasthere, like she would be hopping
(25:59):
from like three studios a night, just writing, beating the
pavement, beating the pavement,and you know.
Now she's a Grammy awardwinning.
You know songwriter who'swritten for so many people you
know.
Now she's a grammy awardwinning.
You know songwriter who'swritten for so many people you
know.
So I enjoy that seeing thatstory.
You know the lucky days of theworld.
I signed lucky day.
He was still d brown at thattime.
(26:21):
You know um, and now to see himthat's rewarding D Mile, d Mile
.
I signed D Mile back in 2012 orsomething like a long, long
time ago, a long time ago, and Imean he just started getting
his flowers when Maybe aboutthree, four years, about three
(26:42):
years ago, I think, probablywith the Silk Sonic albums.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
We, the silk Sonic albums were really air quotes
next level and obviously thenthe Victoria Monet and more
stuff he's done Bruno andAnderson Park and but yeah, but
he started to really get hisshine during silk Sonic, during
the pandemic, yeah, yeah, yeah,but he's, but he's been amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
He's been amazing but he.
He had to beat the pavement,but he didn't come out.
He didn't come from nowhere.
He.
He's been amazing, but he hadto beat the pavement, but he
didn't come from nowhere.
He's been around, you know.
So those are the stories I justlove to see.
I love to see and I love beingpart of things from the
beginning.
St John, another one.
You know I signed St John.
(27:22):
I actually know there are a lotof stories out there, but but
yeah, I got St John's firstpublishing deal, Really Like,
yes, I did, yeah, you know.
So those things are rewardingfor me.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
So you've worked with Janet Jackson as well.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So I've never worked with Janet Jackson.
We honor Janet Jackson.
Okay, so BMI, we do the R&Bhip-hop awards every year, so
Janet Jackson was an icon oneyear.
That was.
I'm not starstruck at all, butit's certain people.
When we honor Janet, yeah, youknow, that's Janet DeVita Joe.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Jackson, the one-name people.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
We honor Mariah there's a picture of me,
one-namer, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
There's a picture of me on Rollingstonescom, me
actually giving her her award,and she's just looking at me in
my eyes, and I'm like, wow, thisis a moment Because I love
Mariah Carey, of course, ofcourse.
Mariah is the moment because Ilove mariah carey, of course,
mariah carey um, the biggest, ofcourse is for me when we honor
(28:32):
patty lavelle.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
You know, that's my, that's my favorite.
All the time that's in yourmouth, that's my lady right
there, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
So we've had some amazing moments.
That is so rewarding to be ableto honor your favorites who
impacted you Like these peoplehave impacted me as a child.
You know we also do theTrailblazers of Gospel Music and
I've got to celebrate againsome of my childhood legends the
(29:02):
Clark sisters.
You know, twinkie Clark,twinkie clark, twinkie clark
crazy she, twinkie clark.
I have a car that she wrotewhere twinkie clark is thanking
me for encouraging her.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
It's this like what are you talking?
Speaker 2 (29:17):
about what?
Yes, like you're twinkie clark,like I'm always going to ride
with you, because she's thereason why these people are, the
reason why I hear the way thatI hear.
I can't sing, I can't sing, butI hear better than most singers
.
Yeah, I know when you're off.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah.
I know when you are.
Yeah, you know you're flat,you're not good, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
You're not good.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Tell me a little bit about working with Catherine
Bruton.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Catherine.
That's like we're like Batmanand Robin we were so.
We're so similar but sodifferent, you know which is?
Which, I think, is what makesour relationship work.
We both are loving gospel.
(30:17):
I think that was our.
What kind of brought ustogether.
I would love.
For gospel music she's a PK.
I've learned so much from her.
For gospel music she's a PK.
I've learned so much from her.
We don't always agree, but whatshe taught me is that we can
agree to disagree and we don'thave to fall out.
You can disagree and then go onand talk about something else.
(30:44):
She and I we'll have someheated, heated debates and
afterwards we will realize, okay, we just won't agree on this,
and then we'll find somethingelse to laugh about and then we
just keep it moving.
She has taught me a lot ofmaturity.
She's made me mature a lot, youknow.
And another one who has helpedme understand that being a great
(31:08):
executive is not just about whoyou sign that's only a small
part of it but how you show up.
She always tells me I need youto be more forward facing.
I'm one of those people that Ilike to stay in the back, like I
don't really do podcasts andpanels and do a whole bunch of
talking.
I'm not much of a talker, Ijust like to be creative.
(31:31):
That's what I like to do, andso she pushes me.
She pushes me not to be in mycomfort zone.
She pushes me because she seessomething that you know a lot of
times we are who we are,something that you know a lot.
A lot of times we are who weare, so we don't see really the
the, the greatness that that wehold, and so I'm so grateful for
(31:54):
her because she pushes me.
She doesn't.
You know a lot of people.
They will be comfortable and,and you know a lot of, a lot of
people don't really like to seethe people who come after them
succeed.
They're really trying to keepeverything for themselves and
(32:15):
make sure that their space issolidified.
But she's not in competitionwith anybody.
Yeah, but herself.
I think I got you, but yeah,she's not.
She's not that girl.
So I really, really enjoyworking with her.
She's extremely funny.
People don't know she's very,very, very funny.
(32:36):
So we clown a lot.
So, yeah, our relationship isamazing.
I enjoy the dynamic.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
So give me I don't know, I don't even really like
this question, but I'm askingyou anyway.
Give me, like your I don't knowif typical, there's no typical
but give me a day-to-day andlike, I want you to kind of
explain to the people like whatBMI is and what you do.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
BMI is a performance rights organization, so we pay
royalties when your music ispublicly performed.
Pay royalties when your musicis publicly performed.
My job is to bring in talent.
You know, keep the market sharenice and where it is.
So we bring in talent, but wealso nurture talent.
Um, you know, we've kind of allthings to our writers and every
(33:20):
writer has different needs.
So we at BMI Frances Prestonshe was president when I first
got to BMI, and then it was DaleBryan and now Mike O'Neill.
Frances Preston she really,really embedded in the culture
of BMI that it is about thesongwriter, the songwriter and
(33:42):
the song first, and I will saythat BMI has done an amazing job
at keeping the songwriter first.
So some days it's a lot ofmeetings.
A lot of meetings, because thelevel, the amount of people that
we have to cater to, it's a lot, you know.
So a lot of meetings.
(34:04):
Some of it is is connecting thedots.
Ok, whether it's it's I need amanager, or can you get this
song to such and such, orcollaborations, a lot of people
looking to collaborate withdifferent artists.
It's also managing the staffthat comes under you.
(34:25):
So it's no typical day, honestly, which is what I do enjoy.
Sometimes, though, it's alittle stressful, because I do
like structure and it's not astructured job at all.
It's not your day on Monday isgoing to be different than
Tuesday and Wednesday.
You know there's a lot ofmoving parts to it and, on top
(34:46):
of top of bringing talent,nurturing talent building on
relationships, we also do awardshows.
We have award shows in all ofour departments, from R&B, hip
hop, gospel, pop, latin andLondon I hope I'm not forgetting
(35:08):
anything Country as well.
So our job is to we have tocreate these events from the
bottom up, like event planners.
So the job is not a cookiecutter, one size fits all.
We wear a lot of different hatswith this job, a lot of
(35:29):
different hats.
Okay, so it keeps you on yourtoes, but it can be very, very
stressful.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I'm sure.
So tell me about this.
Um, photography, photographybug you've caught and honestly
caught on your head before, butyour photography, I guess
journey and you're like you'rereally, really doing this now.
It's not like I'm just playingaround taking pictures of birds
and shit, like doing, you know,fashion shoots and like you
(36:00):
really tell me about it.
Tell me about it yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
So you know.
Well, number one most peopledon't know I was a graphic
design major in college.
Ok, I draw, and it wassomething that my mom kind of
pushed, you know like, don't,don't waste your talent, you
know you draw.
Yeah, so I was a graphic designmajor but I knew, like I said,
(36:23):
I was going to work in eitherfashion or music.
I just knew it.
And so I kind of once I gotinto music, I just went full
force there and didn't look backand I would say, maybe like in
17, I was gifted a book.
Cj got me a book about menswearillustration.
(36:45):
Okay, I was like, why didn'tyou give me this book?
But I started reading it andthen I started drawing again and
really having fun with thedrawing.
And then a friend of mine he'sa producer and musical director,
joe wilson.
I was at his house one day.
He said um, I see yourportraits.
Have you ever thought abouttaking portraits with a camera
(37:06):
and then drawing your portraits?
And I was like, no, I neverthought about that.
And he said well, I have acamera.
You know, I'm not using itbecause I just have another one.
I just purchased another one,so I'll give it to you.
And he gave it to me and taughtme a few things.
And then Day Howerton, who is aproducer, but he's, he was an
(37:28):
aspiring producer.
I didn't know he was aphotographer at the time, though
.
Ok, ok, he became my mentor andhe just taught me.
Day Howerton in YouTube, taughtme everything I know.
And, ironically enough, though,it came full circle, because I
used to take photography classesas a graphic design major and
back in the day, I would spendhours looking through images and
(37:51):
fashion ads and stuff like that, because I've always loved an
image, a beautiful image.
And so, yeah, I just startedshooting, and now I've had book
covers, I've had threebillboards, two in New York.
I've had two billboards in NewYork.
Who?
Speaker 1 (38:09):
were the billboards for.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
One was for Bevy Smith's book.
I shot the cover of her NewYork Times bestselling book, her
New York Times bestselling book, and that billboard was on 34th
Street.
And then the second one wasElijah Blake.
Okay, he had a billboard inTimes Square and I didn't get to
(38:31):
see the Bevy Smith one, but Idid get to go visit the
billboard in Times Square.
Man, that was man.
You talk about a surreal moment, man, to see your creation up
in lights in your city, yeah, inyour city.
(38:51):
Like I mean, you can't tell medreams don't come true.
True, it's true.
You can't tell me dreams don'tcome true.
True, it's true.
You can't tell me dreams don'tcome true.
I will say that my life looks,except for some personal stuff,
career-wise, my life looks how Iplanned it, manifested it.
(39:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's so weird, but wordsreally do have power.
Your thoughts have power.
Yeah, bevy smith always saysthat to me.
She's.
She's part of the reason I giveher so much credit for why I
think the way I do now, becausea lot of times we've had, you
(39:36):
know, you got to deprogramyourself from what you've
learned as a kid because a lotof, a lot of times we've had,
you know, you got to deprogramyourself from what you've
learned as a kid because a lotof, a lot of times yours the
stuff that you your stuff andwhat you think you like and
don't like a lot of times that'syour parents stuff, absolutely
that's your parents stuff.
Yeah, it's not your stuff soit's not your stuff, and so I've
.
I've spent years deprogramminga lot of what I've learned and
(40:01):
now trying to shift to themindset that I want what I want,
how I see myself, how I'mgrateful for my photography
journey because it's justallowing me to stay creative.
It's just I like using my handsin that creative space.
(40:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, so OK, and now what I'm going to do one day.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I listen whenever you ready.
I'm now focusing on actuallyselling some of my prints.
So I'm building out my onlinestore so I can sell some of my
prints.
So I'm building out my onlinestore so I can sell some of my
prints and actually get my stuffprinted so I can actually see
it in my house.
I don't really print my stuff.
A lot of times, you know, youjust see it, you send it to the
(40:52):
person digitally and that's it.
But there's something aboutactually feeling it.
It just it makes a difference.
That's dope man.
But there's something aboutactually feeling it.
It just it makes.
It makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
That's dope man.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, what's next.
Yeah, you know what's next.
That's a loaded questionthere's so much that I want to
do, jeff man, there's so much,of course you know.
I want to continue to toflourish in the music game and
(41:29):
continue to grow and be the bestexecutive that I can be and
continue to continue my art ofdiscovery.
As far as photography, like yousaid I did.
I did make a British Vogue.
I actually was in Vogue twice.
That's incredible.
I was in Vogue twice actually.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Wow, that's incredible.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, so more of that like fashion.
I want to do fashion spreadsand all those things and people
have talked to me about actuallylike some kind of fashion, and
you know I love fashion.
I don't know, I just have tofigure out what that is, what
that looks like for me.
(41:59):
Maybe I design.
I do have an idea about usingmy photography in some way with
fashion, and there's alsothere's a series of coffee table
books that I want to do toreally help the black community
heal.
Yeah.
(42:20):
Yeah, I want to do that withpictures and create
conversations, because that'show we heal when we have
conversations.
Communication Don't be afraidof the difficult conversations,
because that's when thebreakthrough happens.
On the difficult conversations.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
I agree, 200,.
But everybody.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
You know everybody's, don't.
You don't want to talk tosomebody who don't think like
you, or whatever, then you'regoing to be talking to the same
it's no learning, it's nolearning.
Nobody's at the chamber.
That's it.
That's it.
So you know, I really thosecoffee table books.
They've been on my heart forquite quite some time, so I
(43:02):
really want to figure out howthat works.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I need about four more of me, and you want to
mention no names and incriminatenobody, give me one.
I say crazy, but I don't likethe word crazy.
Give me one spicy story in themusic business, something you've
seen, a crazy story aboutsigning somebody.
(43:28):
Well, first of all, before that, even tell me.
Tell me somebody you wanted tosign that you weren't able to,
for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I'm so bad at these questions because now I can't
think of one person.
I can't think of one person,somebody that I wanted to sign,
that I couldn't.
I pretty much I can't think ofanybody that I wanted to sign
that I didn't sign.
Okay, that's fair.
You know, when I first got tobe a mom man, I was signing
(43:56):
everybody, man, I was goingcrazy on them, I was going crazy
on them, yeah, yeah.
So I don't know, I don't thinkthere's anybody that I wanted to
sign that I haven't.
Okay okay.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Well, give me a crazy , a spicy story.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I can't think of one story, good or bad.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
A spicy story.
All right, you know we're goingto get back to it.
I don't know what you'rethinking about.
We're going to get back to it.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, a spicy story.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Give me your.
You already told me yourfavorite artist, so we're going
to get there.
Give me one or two of yourfavorite.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
So Patti LaBelle is my favorite female artist Of all
time.
Of all time, luther of all time.
Okay, luther vandross wouldhave to be my favorite male
artist.
Great choices, luther vandross,just the?
The remember the first time Iheard him, his tone and the
background singers I was likewhat?
And I was in the back seat.
(44:54):
My mom, uh, used to take meshopping every Saturday.
We used to go to Short HillsMall and Garden State Mall in
Jersey.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, in Jersey and.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
I remember she went to Sam Goody and got Luther
Vandross' Busy Body, wow.
And when that first came on Iwanted your love and I was like
it was the background singersand I was young at this time so
I didn't know what I I waslistening for, but I knew it was
just so pleasing to my ear.
Yeah, it was so pleasing to myear.
(45:24):
So I was obsessed with luthersince that very, very, very day,
very day.
It's just he changed.
He changed my game.
And patty I saw patty on a TVspecial at like seven years old
and I'd never heard of herbefore.
And I mean, you know, pattyused to be on 10.
Every time she performed shewas on me, and so I was young.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
So I didn't know whether to be off.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I mean, I was like what's happening?
I didn't know whether to beafraid or what, but I knew I was
obsessed with her.
I was obsessed with her fromthat time.
I was just like who is this?
And how does she sing like thisand cut up like this?
I just never seen anybody cutup like that, like it.
Just, you know my favoritewriters.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Give me one or two.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
You know, a friend of mine we were talking the other
day said I just think StevieWonder, he might be the greatest
of all time.
Okay, he might be the greatestof all time.
Yeah, he's absolute, heBabyface.
Listen, contrary to popularbelief, r Kelly, I mean listen.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I argue about him all the time.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Listen, here's the deal.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I'm not condoning what he's doing, I'm not
condoning anything, but we'renot talking music.
Come on B.
What are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah, music-wise, I mean, he's his pen game, his
vocal game, you know, and again,I ain't condoning nothing yeah,
I'm not saying nothing to meabout it separate thing except
for thing, except for thing,although I do believe you can't
separate the art from the artistI do believe you cannot.
(47:16):
But I can't take away what he'salready done, yeah, what he's
already contributed musically.
I can't erase that, yeah, youknow.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Yeah, who's your favorite photographer?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Robert Mapplethorpe and Gordon Parks Good choices.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good choice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good choices.
They both.
You know, gordon, what I lovedabout Gordon Parks is he touched
on so many different types ofphotography, right, oh, mariah
(47:51):
Carey, definitely one of myfavorite songwriters.
Okay, mariah Carey, definitelyone of my favorite songwriters.
Yes, yes, okay, mariah mariahcarey, definitely one of my
favorite songwriters.
Yes, yes, um, what I like aboutgordon parks is that he, he
touched, he did different typesof photography.
He wasn't just a portraitphotographer or just a fashion
photographer or just adocumentary photographer.
(48:11):
He did it all, um, and he didit all very, very well.
And that's what I want to do,Like, I don't want to be
pigeonholed into like just aportrait photographer.
You know, I want to shootfashion, I want to shoot all
things beautiful.
I'm not into landscape andstuff like that, I'm into people
.
I like when people look at aphoto that I shot and they're
(48:34):
like, wow, you know, I can'tbelieve that's me.
And I'm like, yeah, that's you,because there's beauty in all
of us and I just like showingpeople the beauty in themselves.
So that for sure.
And Robert Mapplethorpe, he'sjust risque and I like risque.
Yeah, he was very risque.
(48:55):
He was very risque.
I mean, you know, he was risquewhen it wasn't even.
I mean now, that kind of stuffis normal.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
You know we see it all the time, but it was not
cool.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
He literally was a trendsetter and a trailblazer
for sure, absolutely, absolutelyyeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
My last question, my last question before we wrap it
up.
This is for you for hometown,favorite place in the Bronx or,
you know what, harlem.
I'll give you either area tochoose from.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
I'm so bad with these questions, jeff, favorite place
.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
It could be anything it could be a food spot, it
could be a park, it could beyour grandmother's house,
whatever, whatever.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
So I will say I'm glad you said that I would say
my favorite place in the Bronxwould be 1750 Sedgwick Avenue,
just whenever I ride past thebuilding, because my grandmother
was and still is my absolutefavorite person in the world and
my hero, you know.
(49:56):
So, yeah, so something.
We were on the first floor, 1p,and when I drive past on the
highway and I see it it always,I always get goosebumps because
I remember her.
You know, she'd sit on aterrace every day, absolutely,
yeah, so watching the peoplewatching the people, watching
the people.
(50:16):
Yeah, and in harlem I would saygoing back to my grandmother
there was this corner store likeI said I used to go to.
I was a member in theabyssinian baptist church.
I got baptized there and everysunday my grandmother would take
me to the corner store and weget peppermints and luden's
cherry cough drops and I wouldneed those two things in order
(50:42):
to sit and be quiet in church.
Do they still make Luden's?
Do they still make those?
I haven't seen them in years,but remember the cherry I mean
they was good, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
That's classic material the cherry and the
honey ones, the honey ones yeahit.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Honey ones yeah, it was candy, but I remember every
Sunday she would get her pay andthen afterwards, after church,
she'd get her daily newspaper.
Yeah yeah.
I don't know if that'snecessarily my favorite, but
it's my most memorable.
I got you Because it's just mychildhood.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, and I got you and my grandma?
Yeah, of course it's beautifulman.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Man, this is good Like.
I said, I normally say no tothese things because I'm not
much of a talker, but how couldI say no to my good friend, the
legendary Jeffery Slade?
We got history, man.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
You've seen me grow up.
You've seen me grow up.
You've seen me grow up, shityou know, yeah, but thank you,
man.
I really appreciate it, man,thank you.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
You can catch Mixed and Mastered on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, iheart or wherever youget your podcasts.
Hit that follow button, leave areview and tell a friend I'm
your host, jeffrey Sledge.
Mixed and Mastered is producedand distributed by Merrick
Studios.
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