Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
From the WA and M Studio on the campus of
Florida A and M University.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Mary Forum Radio, a weekly conversation on the
education and research of.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
The medical marijuana being conducted at BAMMUTI. Hi, I'm Heidi Outway,
your host for this conversations on Cannabis Virtual Form, brought
to you by the Medical Marijuana Education and Research Initiative
at Florida and M University. In this conversation, we're talking
about the benefits, risk and ethical considerations of integrating cannabinoids
(00:32):
into chiropractic patient care. So let's talk and learn about
this subject with our guests. Doctor mister Green is the
owner of Alabar Chiropractic and Rehab based in Southwest Florida.
She has more than two decades of experience and has
incorporated cannabinoids into her practice. She also educates her peers
(00:54):
and clients about the benefits of CBD and its role
in the management of chronic health condition. Doctor Green, Welcome
to the show. Tell us more about yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yes, I have used my chiropractic experience to pivot into
cannabis education for healthcare providers, trying to bridge the gap
between what we didn't learn and what we need to
know about cannabinoids.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
We're glad to have you. Doctor Andrew Lewis Junior is
a chiropractor with more than a decade of experience. He
is the owner of New Dimensions Chiropractic Center based in
North Florida, and he also uses cannabinoids in his practice.
Doctor Green, tell us more about yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Thank you so much, Heidi for having me, you know,
like my colleague, definitely a pleasure to be on the
show and just to provide some insight. So in addition
to chiropractic, you know, I'm a father, I'm I'm a
man of faith, I'm a husband. You know, I have
a nonprofit organization involved in the community and extremely excited
(02:03):
about you know some of the benefits of what you
know the CBD and the cannibal dials can provide to
both the practice and the community.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Well, thank you both for participating in this forum. To
everyone watching, please share the link to this form on
your social media channels so others can learn about this topic.
We also want you to help to tell us what
you think about this forum by completing the survey that
will be posted on Mary's social media pages. Your name
will be entered into a drawing in December twenty twenty
(02:35):
five to win a one hundred dollars gift card provided
by one of Mary's partners. Now, let's start this conversation
on cannabis. So, doctor Lewis, I'm going to start with you.
What is chiropractic care?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Absolutely so, By definition, chiropractic is a healthcare profession that
focuses primarily on the muscular, skeletal, and nervous system to
treat pain and overall function. However, with my years of
experience with chiropractic care, I now understand chiropractic in a
completely different lens, uh, and in a way that uh,
(03:14):
the brain and the body, the communication between those two
are a paramount when it comes to just overall health
and function. And I see chiropractic as a uh uh,
you know, a field of study that allows for interference
to be minimized as much as possible to allow for
you know, the brain to have full and clear communication
(03:36):
with the body. So that's my that's chiropractic through my lens,
all right, Doctor Green.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I have a very similar lens to you, Doctor Lewis.
Absolutely everything you said, I agree with as we as
we tied into this topic. You know, in recent years
there has been in my mind such a connection between
chiropractic and me a stasis, which is what the goal
of chiropractic is. It's it's to the chiropractic adjustment removes
(04:06):
nervous interference, which opens up a line of communication between
the brain and the rest of the body, and that
includes the endo cannabinoid system, which we're going to get into.
So it's not just for pain, it's it's for so
many things. And the more that I'm in, the more
years I log under my belt, the more that I
see it's it's it's more than what a lot of
people think it's for.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, well, you kind of touched on it a little bit,
So can you expound a little bit on why people
seek health care from a chiropractor and and how do
you all support them.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Traditionally people seek us out for muscular skeletal conditions. They
they're in pain, and it's up to us to educate
them once they get there that chiropractic is more than that,
and so they they that might be what brings them
in the door, but the nervous system that controls everything
so it's it's not just pain, it's not just your
muscles and that system. It's it's how your organs function,
(05:06):
it's how your brain functions. Everything needs that line of
communication from the brain to the rest of the body.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
At LUIS, would you like to add to that and
talk about how your work supports their overall health?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Absolutely so. In addition to what doctor Green mentioned, another
concept that is not you know, known amongst the public
is that in the field of chiropractic there are many
different specialties. So we have some chiros that only specialize
in pediatrics. We have chiros that specialize in nutrition geriatrics.
(05:40):
So the take of addressing your nervous system, and as
I mentioned before, just really you know, minimizing the interference
between the brain and the body. Uh, every patient can
benefit from it. It's funny how, you know, when I'm
in public and I have on my you know, Cairo paraphernalia,
and you know, a patient or a potential patient or
(06:03):
someone that will say, well, I see that you're a chiropractic,
but I don't need a chiropractice right now. Right in
my mind, I'm like, we all need chiropractice, but some
of us don't know it right. So it's definitely a
field of study where you know, any and every patient
can benefit from you know, that clear communication between their
brain and body.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, well, let's dig into how cannabinoids are being incorporated
into your practices. And I just kind of want to
like set the stage here that according to Florida law,
chiropractice cannot legally order medical marijuana. Patients must see a
qualified physician such as a doctor of medicine or osciopathtic medicine,
(06:45):
and they have to be certified for the Medical Marijuana
Use Registry. So can you tell our listeners and viewers
how you're incorporating medical cannabinoids like CBD into patient care
plans as a complementary treatment for certain conditions, Doctor Green,
you want to kick us off with.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
That, sure, I use uh, I use different forms. I
have used different forms in the office. The primary way
that that I use it is after each chiropractical adjustment,
I use a topical application, and that means that I
rub some type of CBD ointment on the skin and
(07:25):
it helps reduce inflammation. It kind of it works in
tandem with the chiropractic adjustment which addresses inflammation. You know,
indirectly anyway, And so that's the easiest way. While I
have them there, I also educate them on other other
ways that they can do it. They can they can
take cannabinoise oil orally you know, under the tongue and
(07:46):
that helps with but if we're talking about inflammation, that
that helps more from the inside out versus the topical
is kind of like the outside end kind of application.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Doctor Lewis, did you want to add to that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, so my my scope is is little more slimm
than doctor Green's. I just use it primarily as a
top boy as she stated. Uh, and in most cases,
you know, it's following the care provider here at the office.
Many patients like that feeling of kind of an extended
type of treatment, if you will, following their their treatment.
(08:19):
So that's our primary course of the usage here at
New Dimensions.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, so doctor Green, how do you determine? And you
do cannabis education. So this is why I'm asking you
this because you you have a master's If I recall
you share that whetherson we were doing our pre taping,
tell us everyone about that master's degree that you secured.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
So I am I loved, I love saying that I
have a master's in medical cannabis because I never thought
it would have it. It's just one of those novelty things.
If you grew up in the eighties and we were
in the just say no era. It amazes me that
I now have a gig where I'm standing in front
of my peers teaching them about the world of cannabis.
And I went through the University of Maryland School Pharmacy.
(09:04):
They have the only graduate level program for cannabis medical, medical,
cannabis science and Therapeutics. And so I used that, I
use that to open the door to conversations that we
don't always we don't always get entrance to because there's
such a lack of credentials and knowing where you're getting
(09:24):
knowledge from and where did they get their knowledge from.
And so so I am I'm using that degree to
educate my patients and educate other healthcare providers on us
and don'ts and ethics and staying in your scope. So yeah,
it's it's it's it's a wonderful adjunct to have in
my bag of tricks at the office in addition to
(09:46):
the chiropractic.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, so let's talk about some of those dudes in
don'ts and and how do chiropractors who are using cannabinoids
in their practice, how do they determine what formulation is
suitable for a patient?
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Well, that the first question that that chiropractors, any anybody
that's talking about cannabinoids, you need to know why, why
they're interested in it.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
What condition are you interested in treating?
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Because that's gonna that's gonna start the flow chart that
that you have in your head that branches down with Okay,
that this is the condition? Is it an outside going
in like with inflammation? Is it is it inside out?
For for the more serious conditions? And then then you
you should be familiar with the history of your patient
and and recognize red flags. And this is where the
(10:33):
baseline of education that physicians should have recognizing red flags
that they may have in their health history. There are
certain conditions that are contraindicated, certain drugs that they take
that are contraindicated to use. Some patients are allergic, if
you can believe it, they're allergic to all cannabinoids even
though they their own body makes them inside. But when
(10:53):
you try to rub it on the skin, it can
cause uh, it can cause irritation and if and if
they take it by now, it can cause antiflaxis. So
it's really about knowing red flags as as the doctor
and knowing your patient.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Well, yeah, and are there certain products that you use
in certain products that you don't use, Doctor Lewis, I'm
gonna look to you for that one. Certain ones you
use it so much, you know, we do not use
this at all.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, because we're more so in the line of the topicals.
Particularly CDD Clinic is the company that I that I've
been with now for many years. Uh, they were definitely
from from my knowledge my standpoint, and doctor Greenshaw even
know if I'm wrong, but they were somewhat at the
forefront because I hadn't really heard much about CBD and
(11:40):
the clinical application. But they were already you know, they
already had the product and you know, had done a
large bit of studying, you know, to determine what the
product it is capable of doing. So, Uh, that's my
that's the kind of my my on on the CVD And.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yes, that's that degree.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Did you want to add anything when it comes to
your practice when you're making those decisions.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Product juice is that I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
There are product use Yeah, what products do you use
and what products definitely don't use within because again this
is the purpose of this is to educate those who
do go to their care, who go to who get
chiropractic care, and they hear this show and they're like, hey.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
I'm.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Can I have a noise tell me what to do?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
And so here's an opportunity for you to tell them, Hey,
here's some dudes and don't So here's something that you
should be looking out for when you're talking to your
your healthcare provider.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Well, the the topicals are are wonderful and as I mentioned,
the other products, the other formulations that you can take
my mouth, those those are all things that I would
recommend in the office. I stay in my I stay
in scope, and that's very important for all health care providers.
But chiropractors specifically, CBD is in our scope of practice
(13:09):
and so absolutely and we stay we say evidence based
in our use with CBD. But because of the way
the legalities of our scope, they don't they have a
very broad they have very broad parameters for us as chiropractors.
So legally chiropractors can also dabble in and offer recommend
(13:31):
discuss alternate cannabaloids that started from hemp and have they
get manipulated into other behaving like other cannabinoids that are
intoxicating cannabinoids, And so that's legal for us to get into,
but ethically it's a great area. So I always recommend
my patients because they're not always going to disclose everything
(13:54):
to me. I need to make sure that whether whether
I'm offering them in my office or not, they also
know my opinion is don't do them outside the office either.
Stay stay within, you know, chiropractice as I was discussed,
stay within the CBD and and pure organic products versus
dabbling and alternative cannabinids.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, so we we'd like to educate our listeners and
viewers too on the indocannabinoid system, which is becoming more
and more talked about as we see more and more
people using medical cannabis and cannabinoids for their healthcare. So
can you Dot de Green kind of tell us about
(14:35):
the indocannabinoid system and then how does that work into
your practice area of chiropractic care.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Well, the the indou cannabinide system is a master regula
regulatory system within the body.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
And when I describe it.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I visualize the little eye and the sky at intersections,
the little cameras that monitor traffic and they make sure
that you're not backed up, and oh there's a crash,
let's reroute. So that's kind of what the ECS endocannabinoid
system does behind the scenes, and its whole goal is
to regulate hope, is to to provide homeostasis to the
body by by monitoring all the body systems. And that's
(15:16):
a huge overlap on what chiropractic does. So when when
we want the body to work optimally, and that's the
goal of chiropractic, that that will include the endocannabinoid system.
So if if we have, if I have patients that
maybe I think can use just a little a little help,
a little push in addition to what we're doing in
the office, then I'll open the conversation about how healthy
(15:38):
is your endocannabinoid system, and here's some here's some ways
that you can kind of tune it up by these
different products.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, doctor Lewis, did you want to add to that?
She she summed it up. That's that's it. I definitely
agree with that. Agree And and when we were when
I was doing some research earlier. You know, they said
that the indo can abinoid system is present in the skin, right,
and so you all are using these topicals as part
(16:05):
of your practice. So how do these topicals work to
relieve the pain and the interaction with the care that
you provide, Doctor.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Green, Well, when you rub cannabinoids on the skin, and
most products do not have do not have things inside
them that make them penetrate the deeper layers of the skin.
So so most products, when you apply them on top
of the skin, it's going to help with surface conditions.
(16:37):
And so when when you rub it on there, the
CBD interacts with the receptors. So you're your endo cannabin
a system, your ECS. It has specific receptors that are
tied to that system. And so the CB receptors, there
are two different kinds that we talk about, and the
kind that are most prevalent in the skin. CBD influences
(16:58):
them the most. And when you rub the CBD on
the skin, it interacts with those cannabinie receptors and it
helps modulate the inflammatory response.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Wow, that's that's interesting. So doctor Lewis, can you share
any real world examples of how in your practice using
cannabinoid to help your patients further.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Absolutely in many cases as a provider, and maybe doctor
Green can attest to this too, but there's always you
know a bit of anxiety when you have the patient
that comes in on a Friday and they are in
an acute condition and they have to go somewhere for
(17:40):
the weekend.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
My most recent case was a guy who had to
go to I think Destined and he was going to
be in a wedding. His daughter was getting married, so
he had an extremely important role in that wedding. As
you can imagine, he came into the office and he
couldn't stand up. So he was like, Doc, I need
to be able to stand up. This is my first
(18:02):
time seeing him. And with that, I did all that
I could do here in the office and I was
you know, the patient was glad to report that on
the following Monday. In addition to the adjustments that he
received on that Friday, it was the CBD that really
helped him go through the weekend, you know, being able
(18:24):
to stand up right, being able to dance at the
reception and just interact with the family, although having a
little pain, but definitely making it a manageable situation. So
that is the most recent real life experience I've had
with with CBD.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Doctor Green shared a story with us.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Please, first off, let me just say you are exactly
right the portability of topicals. It's a wonderful thing for
a patient to have in their little bag of tricks
once they leave the office. It's something to help get
them through until their next chiropractic adjustment, which is going
to other help the conditions are being treated for. So
(19:02):
that that's that's a wonderful that is a wonderful way.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Uh, it's a.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Wonderful service to offer offer the patients with that portability.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
So, doctor Green, do you have any guidance for chiropractors
on staying within scope when it comes to using CBD
in their practices, Because we all know that there's you know,
you can go in a convenience store now and find
a CBD product. You know, they have them in gas stations,
and so we want to make sure that our listeners
and viewers aren't just saying I'm not going to the chiroparkt.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I'm just gonna buy this is it?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So can we talk a little bit about not only
guidance for chiropractors for staying within scope, but then also
for people who are experiencing discomfort and trying to decide,
you know, how do I remedy myself with aminoids.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Well, when it comes to chiro factors and scope, the
powers that be that that kind of dictate what we
can and can't do, they're they're very broad, you know,
they're very broad and what they do and don't tell us,
and so it's up to it's up to each position
to make sure that they're following the best practices that
(20:20):
for cannabinoids as they can find. And that's where it
goes back to making sure that you're the information you're
you're getting is going to be credible. Who is who's
educating the doc is very important when you talk about
staying in scope. We as chiropractors, no matter what we
believe to be true and no matter what we have
necessarily seen anecdotally, we have to stay evidence based. It
(20:44):
would be easy to say that this is uh to
prop it up and advertise it like it's snake oil,
and it's not. You know, it's it's it's wonderful for
for certain conditions, and and we need to stay in
the evidence based discussions that we can defend.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And vetting the companies.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
That you get the product from it is so very
very important because you know, if if you go to
a Ford dealership, they're going to sell you a forward.
So if you are talking to a CBD company, they're
going to sell you CBD and they're going to tell
you all these things that you can use it for.
And this is why you educate patients. But it's up
to the dock to vet that information. That's your starting
(21:22):
point and then do your own research on how to
move forward with it. And and in my opinion, in
my in my practice, staying in scope means we stay
with CBD only and not any of the alternatives.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
You know, I've touched on it on it before.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Alternative cannabinoids, that's what you find in the gas stations,
that's that's what you.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Find from these these companies.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
And it's an unregulated market, you know, And so in
an unregulated market you have to do even more due
diligence to make sure that the product that you're you're
recommending is a quality product and looking for q OUR
codes for instance, on each product that should take you
to a certificate that tells you what's in the product,
(22:05):
and if it doesn't have that, there's your starting point.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
That's that's a red flag for me.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
So it's it's just making sure that you do due
diligence before you have the conversation with the patient.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, Louis, did you want to add to that at all?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Just just a little bit. Misinformation and mis labeling can
be very detrimental when you think about you know, again
she stated, it is very loosely regulated, uh, you know,
field of study, and it is extremely important for us
as CAIROS to make sure that when we're giving this
(22:39):
to patients that we know exactly what it is that
we're giving, you know, to them. I know I learned
in our tech support that you know, you have to
know the difference between THC full spectrum and you know,
what's the allowable amount of THT that can be in
the product for you to claim that it's THC. So
(22:59):
those things are extremely important. Again, just making sure that
the company is vetted and that you're working with a bible.
You know, you've partnered with someone that stands behind their
product one percent.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah. So, doctor Green, how do you envision the role
of CBD evolving in chiropractic care? Over the next five
to ten years.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
I believe that more and more people are getting fatigued
with living out of a medicine cabinet.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You know, there's a pill prescribed for everything.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
That is healthcare nowadays is you give me your symptoms,
and I'm going to give you a pharmaceutical that's going
to help fix some of those symptoms.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
And so as people get more and more and more
fatigued with.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
That, they're going to start looking for alternatives to those pharmaceuticals,
and plant based is a huge interest. It's it's an
interesting feel for people who are looking for alternatives, and
historically chiropractice we're way more open to alternatives and we
(24:01):
tend to be more well versed in plant based medicines,
and so it feels like a natural fit moving forward
for one chiropractors to get caught up to speed on
the end of canainoid system and the therapeutic benefits of
CBD and other cannabinoids.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Talk to a little the same question.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yes, so for me, the one thing, you know, it
was just a random thought here, but I have many
patients that you know, we've had the conversation of medical marijuana.
Uh here in the office and although I can't you know,
prescribe it, uh, it has yet been a conversation patients
asked me what's my take on it? And one common,
(24:43):
uh kind of stance of the patient is that they
do not like the feeling of being high. Right, So
just that in and of itself just puts that patient
in a category where the CBD can be very beneficial
because they can receive it therapeutic benefits without the psychotic,
(25:04):
you know, side effects of the THAC. So I definitely foresee,
you know, chiropractic and CBD, you know, aligning in some sense.
And doctor Missia, I'm going to be one of your
students at some point soon.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
I'll let you know when my next lecture comes out.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Absolutely, and I want to thank both of you, doctor
Lewis and doctor Green for being guests on this Conversations
on Cannabis virtual form brought to you by the Medical
Marijuana Education and Research Initiative at Florida and M University.
Thank you to everyone watching this program. Tell us what
you think about this form by completing the survey posted
in the comment boxes on Mary's social media pages. If
(25:49):
you complete the survey, your name will be entered into
a drawing in December twenty twenty five to win a
one hundred dollars gift card provided by one of Mary's partners.
We also want to encourage you to go to the
Florida Department of Health Office of Medical Marijuana Use website
to learn more about how to obtain a legal medical
marijuana cart in the state of Florida. We also encourage
(26:10):
you to go to Florida and M University's website to
learn more about this initiative, it's educational programs, and about
cannabis use in Florida. Thanks everyone.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
The views and opinions of our invited guests are not
necessarily the views and opinions of Florida Agricultural and Mechanical
University or the Medical Marijuana Education and Research Initiative.
From the WA and M Studio on the campus of
Florida A and M University.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Mary Forum Radio, a weekly conversation on the
education and research of.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
The medical marijuana being conducted at BAMMUTI. Hi, I'm Heidi Outway,
your host for this conversations on Cannabis Virtual Form, brought
to you by the Medical Marijuana Education and Research Initiative
at Florida and M University. In this conversation, we're talking
about the benefits, risk and ethical considerations of integrating cannabinoids
(00:32):
into chiropractic patient care. So let's talk and learn about
this subject with our guests. Doctor mister Green is the
owner of Alabar Chiropractic and Rehab based in Southwest Florida.
She has more than two decades of experience and has
incorporated cannabinoids into her practice. She also educates her peers
(00:54):
and clients about the benefits of CBD and its role
in the management of chronic health condition. Doctor Green, Welcome
to the show. Tell us more about yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yes, I have used my chiropractic experience to pivot into
cannabis education for healthcare providers, trying to bridge the gap
between what we didn't learn and what we need to
know about cannabinoids.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
We're glad to have you. Doctor Andrew Lewis Junior is
a chiropractor with more than a decade of experience. He
is the owner of New Dimensions Chiropractic Center based in
North Florida, and he also uses cannabinoids in his practice.
Doctor Green, tell us more about yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Thank you so much, Heidi for having me, you know,
like my colleague, definitely a pleasure to be on the
show and just to provide some insight. So in addition
to chiropractic, you know, I'm a father, I'm I'm a
man of faith, I'm a husband. You know, I have
a nonprofit organization involved in the community and extremely excited
(02:03):
about you know some of the benefits of what you
know the CBD and the cannibal dials can provide to
both the practice and the community.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Well, thank you both for participating in this forum. To
everyone watching, please share the link to this form on
your social media channels so others can learn about this topic.
We also want you to help to tell us what
you think about this forum by completing the survey that
will be posted on Mary's social media pages. Your name
will be entered into a drawing in December twenty twenty
(02:35):
five to win a one hundred dollars gift card provided
by one of Mary's partners. Now, let's start this conversation
on cannabis. So, doctor Lewis, I'm going to start with you.
What is chiropractic care?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Absolutely so, By definition, chiropractic is a healthcare profession that
focuses primarily on the muscular, skeletal, and nervous system to
treat pain and overall function. However, with my years of
experience with chiropractic care, I now understand chiropractic in a
completely different lens, uh, and in a way that uh,
(03:14):
the brain and the body, the communication between those two
are a paramount when it comes to just overall health
and function. And I see chiropractic as a uh uh,
you know, a field of study that allows for interference
to be minimized as much as possible to allow for
you know, the brain to have full and clear communication
(03:36):
with the body. So that's my that's chiropractic through my lens,
all right, Doctor Green.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I have a very similar lens to you, Doctor Lewis.
Absolutely everything you said, I agree with as we as
we tied into this topic. You know, in recent years
there has been in my mind such a connection between
chiropractic and me a stasis, which is what the goal
of chiropractic is. It's it's to the chiropractic adjustment removes
(04:06):
nervous interference, which opens up a line of communication between
the brain and the rest of the body, and that
includes the endo cannabinoid system, which we're going to get into.
So it's not just for pain, it's it's for so
many things. And the more that I'm in, the more
years I log under my belt, the more that I
see it's it's it's more than what a lot of
people think it's for.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, well, you kind of touched on it a little bit,
So can you expound a little bit on why people
seek health care from a chiropractor and and how do
you all support them.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Traditionally people seek us out for muscular skeletal conditions. They
they're in pain, and it's up to us to educate
them once they get there that chiropractic is more than that,
and so they they that might be what brings them
in the door, but the nervous system that controls everything
so it's it's not just pain, it's not just your
muscles and that system. It's it's how your organs function,
(05:06):
it's how your brain functions. Everything needs that line of
communication from the brain to the rest of the body.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
At LUIS, would you like to add to that and
talk about how your work supports their overall health?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Absolutely so. In addition to what doctor Green mentioned, another
concept that is not you know, known amongst the public
is that in the field of chiropractic there are many
different specialties. So we have some chiros that only specialize
in pediatrics. We have chiros that specialize in nutrition geriatrics.
(05:40):
So the take of addressing your nervous system, and as
I mentioned before, just really you know, minimizing the interference
between the brain and the body. Uh, every patient can
benefit from it. It's funny how, you know, when I'm
in public and I have on my you know, Cairo paraphernalia,
and you know, a patient or a potential patient or
(06:03):
someone that will say, well, I see that you're a chiropractic,
but I don't need a chiropractice right now. Right in
my mind, I'm like, we all need chiropractice, but some
of us don't know it right. So it's definitely a
field of study where you know, any and every patient
can benefit from you know, that clear communication between their
brain and body.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, well, let's dig into how cannabinoids are being incorporated
into your practices. And I just kind of want to
like set the stage here that according to Florida law,
chiropractice cannot legally order medical marijuana. Patients must see a
qualified physician such as a doctor of medicine or osciopathtic medicine,
(06:45):
and they have to be certified for the Medical Marijuana
Use Registry. So can you tell our listeners and viewers
how you're incorporating medical cannabinoids like CBD into patient care
plans as a complementary treatment for certain conditions, Doctor Green,
you want to kick us off with.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
That, sure, I use uh, I use different forms. I
have used different forms in the office. The primary way
that that I use it is after each chiropractical adjustment,
I use a topical application, and that means that I
rub some type of CBD ointment on the skin and
(07:25):
it helps reduce inflammation. It kind of it works in
tandem with the chiropractic adjustment which addresses inflammation. You know,
indirectly anyway, And so that's the easiest way. While I
have them there, I also educate them on other other
ways that they can do it. They can they can
take cannabinoise oil orally you know, under the tongue and
(07:46):
that helps with but if we're talking about inflammation, that
that helps more from the inside out versus the topical
is kind of like the outside end kind of application.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Doctor Lewis, did you want to add to that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, so my my scope is is little more slimm
than doctor Green's. I just use it primarily as a
top boy as she stated. Uh, and in most cases,
you know, it's following the care provider here at the office.
Many patients like that feeling of kind of an extended
type of treatment, if you will, following their their treatment.
(08:19):
So that's our primary course of the usage here at
New Dimensions.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, so doctor Green, how do you determine? And you
do cannabis education. So this is why I'm asking you
this because you you have a master's If I recall
you share that whetherson we were doing our pre taping,
tell us everyone about that master's degree that you secured.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
So I am I loved, I love saying that I
have a master's in medical cannabis because I never thought
it would have it. It's just one of those novelty things.
If you grew up in the eighties and we were
in the just say no era. It amazes me that
I now have a gig where I'm standing in front
of my peers teaching them about the world of cannabis.
And I went through the University of Maryland School Pharmacy.
(09:04):
They have the only graduate level program for cannabis medical, medical,
cannabis science and Therapeutics. And so I used that, I
use that to open the door to conversations that we
don't always we don't always get entrance to because there's
such a lack of credentials and knowing where you're getting
(09:24):
knowledge from and where did they get their knowledge from.
And so so I am I'm using that degree to
educate my patients and educate other healthcare providers on us
and don'ts and ethics and staying in your scope. So yeah,
it's it's it's it's a wonderful adjunct to have in
my bag of tricks at the office in addition to
(09:46):
the chiropractic.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, so let's talk about some of those dudes in
don'ts and and how do chiropractors who are using cannabinoids
in their practice, how do they determine what formulation is
suitable for a patient?
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Well, that the first question that that chiropractors, any anybody
that's talking about cannabinoids, you need to know why, why
they're interested in it.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
What condition are you interested in treating?
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Because that's gonna that's gonna start the flow chart that
that you have in your head that branches down with Okay,
that this is the condition? Is it an outside going
in like with inflammation? Is it is it inside out?
For for the more serious conditions? And then then you
you should be familiar with the history of your patient
and and recognize red flags. And this is where the
(10:33):
baseline of education that physicians should have recognizing red flags
that they may have in their health history. There are
certain conditions that are contraindicated, certain drugs that they take
that are contraindicated to use. Some patients are allergic, if
you can believe it, they're allergic to all cannabinoids even
though they their own body makes them inside. But when
(10:53):
you try to rub it on the skin, it can
cause uh, it can cause irritation and if and if
they take it by now, it can cause antiflaxis. So
it's really about knowing red flags as as the doctor
and knowing your patient.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Well, yeah, and are there certain products that you use
in certain products that you don't use, Doctor Lewis, I'm
gonna look to you for that one. Certain ones you
use it so much, you know, we do not use
this at all.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, because we're more so in the line of the topicals.
Particularly CDD Clinic is the company that I that I've
been with now for many years. Uh, they were definitely
from from my knowledge my standpoint, and doctor Greenshaw even
know if I'm wrong, but they were somewhat at the
forefront because I hadn't really heard much about CBD and
(11:40):
the clinical application. But they were already you know, they
already had the product and you know, had done a
large bit of studying, you know, to determine what the
product it is capable of doing. So, Uh, that's my
that's the kind of my my on on the CVD And.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yes, that's that degree.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Did you want to add anything when it comes to
your practice when you're making those decisions.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Product juice is that I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
There are product use Yeah, what products do you use
and what products definitely don't use within because again this
is the purpose of this is to educate those who
do go to their care, who go to who get
chiropractic care, and they hear this show and they're like, hey.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
I'm.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Can I have a noise tell me what to do?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
And so here's an opportunity for you to tell them, Hey,
here's some dudes and don't So here's something that you
should be looking out for when you're talking to your
your healthcare provider.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Well, the the topicals are are wonderful and as I mentioned,
the other products, the other formulations that you can take
my mouth, those those are all things that I would
recommend in the office. I stay in my I stay
in scope, and that's very important for all health care providers.
But chiropractors specifically, CBD is in our scope of practice
(13:09):
and so absolutely and we stay we say evidence based
in our use with CBD. But because of the way
the legalities of our scope, they don't they have a
very broad they have very broad parameters for us as chiropractors.
So legally chiropractors can also dabble in and offer recommend
(13:31):
discuss alternate cannabaloids that started from hemp and have they
get manipulated into other behaving like other cannabinoids that are
intoxicating cannabinoids, And so that's legal for us to get into,
but ethically it's a great area. So I always recommend
my patients because they're not always going to disclose everything
(13:54):
to me. I need to make sure that whether whether
I'm offering them in my office or not, they also
know my opinion is don't do them outside the office either.
Stay stay within, you know, chiropractice as I was discussed,
stay within the CBD and and pure organic products versus
dabbling and alternative cannabinids.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, so we we'd like to educate our listeners and
viewers too on the indocannabinoid system, which is becoming more
and more talked about as we see more and more
people using medical cannabis and cannabinoids for their healthcare. So
can you Dot de Green kind of tell us about
(14:35):
the indocannabinoid system and then how does that work into
your practice area of chiropractic care.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Well, the the indou cannabinide system is a master regula
regulatory system within the body.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
And when I describe it.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I visualize the little eye and the sky at intersections,
the little cameras that monitor traffic and they make sure
that you're not backed up, and oh there's a crash,
let's reroute. So that's kind of what the ECS endocannabinoid
system does behind the scenes, and its whole goal is
to regulate hope, is to to provide homeostasis to the
body by by monitoring all the body systems. And that's
(15:16):
a huge overlap on what chiropractic does. So when when
we want the body to work optimally, and that's the
goal of chiropractic, that that will include the endocannabinoid system.
So if if we have, if I have patients that
maybe I think can use just a little a little help,
a little push in addition to what we're doing in
the office, then I'll open the conversation about how healthy
(15:38):
is your endocannabinoid system, and here's some here's some ways
that you can kind of tune it up by these
different products.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, doctor Lewis, did you want to add to that?
She she summed it up. That's that's it. I definitely
agree with that. Agree And and when we were when
I was doing some research earlier. You know, they said
that the indo can abinoid system is present in the skin, right,
and so you all are using these topicals as part
(16:05):
of your practice. So how do these topicals work to
relieve the pain and the interaction with the care that
you provide, Doctor.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Green, Well, when you rub cannabinoids on the skin, and
most products do not have do not have things inside
them that make them penetrate the deeper layers of the skin.
So so most products, when you apply them on top
of the skin, it's going to help with surface conditions.
(16:37):
And so when when you rub it on there, the
CBD interacts with the receptors. So you're your endo cannabin
a system, your ECS. It has specific receptors that are
tied to that system. And so the CB receptors, there
are two different kinds that we talk about, and the
kind that are most prevalent in the skin. CBD influences
(16:58):
them the most. And when you rub the CBD on
the skin, it interacts with those cannabinie receptors and it
helps modulate the inflammatory response.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Wow, that's that's interesting. So doctor Lewis, can you share
any real world examples of how in your practice using
cannabinoid to help your patients further.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Absolutely in many cases as a provider, and maybe doctor
Green can attest to this too, but there's always you
know a bit of anxiety when you have the patient
that comes in on a Friday and they are in
an acute condition and they have to go somewhere for
(17:40):
the weekend.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
My most recent case was a guy who had to
go to I think Destined and he was going to
be in a wedding. His daughter was getting married, so
he had an extremely important role in that wedding. As
you can imagine, he came into the office and he
couldn't stand up. So he was like, Doc, I need
to be able to stand up. This is my first
(18:02):
time seeing him. And with that, I did all that
I could do here in the office and I was
you know, the patient was glad to report that on
the following Monday. In addition to the adjustments that he
received on that Friday, it was the CBD that really
helped him go through the weekend, you know, being able
(18:24):
to stand up right, being able to dance at the
reception and just interact with the family, although having a
little pain, but definitely making it a manageable situation. So
that is the most recent real life experience I've had
with with CBD.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Doctor Green shared a story with us.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Please, first off, let me just say you are exactly
right the portability of topicals. It's a wonderful thing for
a patient to have in their little bag of tricks
once they leave the office. It's something to help get
them through until their next chiropractic adjustment, which is going
to other help the conditions are being treated for. So
(19:02):
that that's that's a wonderful that is a wonderful way.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Uh, it's a.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Wonderful service to offer offer the patients with that portability.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
So, doctor Green, do you have any guidance for chiropractors
on staying within scope when it comes to using CBD
in their practices, Because we all know that there's you know,
you can go in a convenience store now and find
a CBD product. You know, they have them in gas stations,
and so we want to make sure that our listeners
and viewers aren't just saying I'm not going to the chiroparkt.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I'm just gonna buy this is it?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So can we talk a little bit about not only
guidance for chiropractors for staying within scope, but then also
for people who are experiencing discomfort and trying to decide,
you know, how do I remedy myself with aminoids.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Well, when it comes to chiro factors and scope, the
powers that be that that kind of dictate what we
can and can't do, they're they're very broad, you know,
they're very broad and what they do and don't tell us,
and so it's up to it's up to each position
to make sure that they're following the best practices that
(20:20):
for cannabinoids as they can find. And that's where it
goes back to making sure that you're the information you're
you're getting is going to be credible. Who is who's
educating the doc is very important when you talk about
staying in scope. We as chiropractors, no matter what we
believe to be true and no matter what we have
necessarily seen anecdotally, we have to stay evidence based. It
(20:44):
would be easy to say that this is uh to
prop it up and advertise it like it's snake oil,
and it's not. You know, it's it's it's wonderful for
for certain conditions, and and we need to stay in
the evidence based discussions that we can defend.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And vetting the companies.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
That you get the product from it is so very
very important because you know, if if you go to
a Ford dealership, they're going to sell you a forward.
So if you are talking to a CBD company, they're
going to sell you CBD and they're going to tell
you all these things that you can use it for.
And this is why you educate patients. But it's up
to the dock to vet that information. That's your starting
(21:22):
point and then do your own research on how to
move forward with it. And and in my opinion, in
my in my practice, staying in scope means we stay
with CBD only and not any of the alternatives.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
You know, I've touched on it on it before.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Alternative cannabinoids, that's what you find in the gas stations,
that's that's what you.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Find from these these companies.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
And it's an unregulated market, you know, And so in
an unregulated market you have to do even more due
diligence to make sure that the product that you're you're
recommending is a quality product and looking for q OUR
codes for instance, on each product that should take you
to a certificate that tells you what's in the product,
(22:05):
and if it doesn't have that, there's your starting point.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
That's that's a red flag for me.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
So it's it's just making sure that you do due
diligence before you have the conversation with the patient.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, Louis, did you want to add to that at all?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Just just a little bit. Misinformation and mis labeling can
be very detrimental when you think about you know, again
she stated, it is very loosely regulated, uh, you know,
field of study, and it is extremely important for us
as CAIROS to make sure that when we're giving this
(22:39):
to patients that we know exactly what it is that
we're giving, you know, to them. I know I learned
in our tech support that you know, you have to
know the difference between THC full spectrum and you know,
what's the allowable amount of THT that can be in
the product for you to claim that it's THC. So
(22:59):
those things are extremely important. Again, just making sure that
the company is vetted and that you're working with a bible.
You know, you've partnered with someone that stands behind their
product one percent.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah. So, doctor Green, how do you envision the role
of CBD evolving in chiropractic care? Over the next five
to ten years.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
I believe that more and more people are getting fatigued
with living out of a medicine cabinet.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You know, there's a pill prescribed for everything.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
That is healthcare nowadays is you give me your symptoms,
and I'm going to give you a pharmaceutical that's going
to help fix some of those symptoms.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
And so as people get more and more and more
fatigued with.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
That, they're going to start looking for alternatives to those pharmaceuticals,
and plant based is a huge interest. It's it's an
interesting feel for people who are looking for alternatives, and
historically chiropractice we're way more open to alternatives and we
(24:01):
tend to be more well versed in plant based medicines,
and so it feels like a natural fit moving forward
for one chiropractors to get caught up to speed on
the end of canainoid system and the therapeutic benefits of
CBD and other cannabinoids.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Talk to a little the same question.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yes, so for me, the one thing, you know, it
was just a random thought here, but I have many
patients that you know, we've had the conversation of medical marijuana.
Uh here in the office and although I can't you know,
prescribe it, uh, it has yet been a conversation patients
asked me what's my take on it? And one common,
(24:43):
uh kind of stance of the patient is that they
do not like the feeling of being high. Right, So
just that in and of itself just puts that patient
in a category where the CBD can be very beneficial
because they can receive it therapeutic benefits without the psychotic,
(25:04):
you know, side effects of the THAC. So I definitely foresee,
you know, chiropractic and CBD, you know, aligning in some sense.
And doctor Missia, I'm going to be one of your
students at some point soon.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
I'll let you know when my next lecture comes out.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Absolutely, and I want to thank both of you, doctor
Lewis and doctor Green for being guests on this Conversations
on Cannabis virtual form brought to you by the Medical
Marijuana Education and Research Initiative at Florida and M University.
Thank you to everyone watching this program. Tell us what
you think about this form by completing the survey posted
in the comment boxes on Mary's social media pages. If
(25:49):
you complete the survey, your name will be entered into
a drawing in December twenty twenty five to win a
one hundred dollars gift card provided by one of Mary's partners.
We also want to encourage you to go to the
Florida Department of Health Office of Medical Marijuana Use website
to learn more about how to obtain a legal medical
marijuana cart in the state of Florida. We also encourage
(26:10):
you to go to Florida and M University's website to
learn more about this initiative, it's educational programs, and about
cannabis use in Florida. Thanks everyone.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
The views and opinions of our invited guests are not
necessarily the views and opinions of Florida Agricultural and Mechanical
University or the Medical Marijuana Education and Research Initiative.
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